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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/9/2005
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

slingshot (9/9/05; 23:36:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 135796)
YGM
Hello YGM,
I hold my silence till Gold Reaches $451.
The rest of you don't see this post ;0)

I will contribute in the coming months till the amount equals the spot price of gold at that time.
Fixed income is hell.
Slingshot-------------<>

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 22:42:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 135795)
Reply to Goldilox
Goldilox, GATA supposes that the central banks simply want gold shorted or at least seeming plentiful. To maximize that impression, the central banks would prefer that the gold be seen to be shorted by intermediaries rather than by the central banks themselves, though of course central banks are willing to sell gold directly if they have to, as the Bank of England did and as the European central banks continue to do.

GATA believes that most recent central bank gold sales have been simply the cancellation of leases of gold already sold into the market -- the bailing out of the shorts. Indeed, these shorts well not really be shorts at all, just brokers for the central banks, the real parties in interest.

Financial houses -- bullion banks -- are more than happy to become the agents of the central banks in the gold market and to join the gold price suppression scheme because it allows them to trade with inside knowledge of government policy, to trade knowing how much gold will be made available for dumping exactly when. With access to that much gold, the bullion banks can control the market, at least in the short term, on any particular day.

That the gold price is rising anyway is an indication that central bank reserves are being drained too fast and that the central banks are attempting a controlled retreat with the gold price.

Of course the central banks' use of intermediaries in the gold market this way is corrupt. That is among the conclusions of the recent Sprott report on manipulation of the equities markets; whenever the government works more or less surreptitiously through intermediaries, the intermediaries gain a huge advantage over other participants in the market.

But the government policy is completely consistent throughout; it is to suppress the gold price. Using intermediaries to provide camouflage for the government is simply one mechanism of that policy.

Goldilox (9/9/05; 22:17:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 135794)
Short sales
@ CP, Belgian,

In you interchange, I saw an interesting thought-block.

Belgian asked why CP thought CBs were "shorting gold", and the response was they might be selling gold to rescue other short parties.

Those don't seem equivalent to me. Using political collateral to rescue private shorts and shorting for some government motive are quite different, IMHO.

One is bad governement, the other corrupt government.

As to TC's response about the ESF in the Caribbean, though no "direct links" have been establshed, at least two Senators have openly asked Greenspan about the "mysterious" support for treasuries coming from unnamed sources in the Caribbean bank havens. Questions, but no answers. . . isn't it always this way?

YGM (9/9/05; 21:12:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 135793)
Golden Challenge...One Gold Coin Each
http://www.redcross.ca
I'm sure the American Red Cross knows what to do with my cheque for the equivilent, of one Gold Maple. I hope all of you will do the same. The world is watching the horror and even adversarial nations are pitching in. Sad time indeed for so many once happy hearts of the South.

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 20:55:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 135792)
Belgian's other question
Professor Belgian also asked for my interpretation of the European Central Bank's MTM (marked-to-market procedure for its gold reserves.

I know Belgian makes a lot of this but is it really any more than an accounting device to induce the ECB's member states to think that the gold they contributed to the bank is in good hands because it is gaining value? I imagine that the United States could do this for its gold reserves too and use the gain in gold's value to offset losses elsewhere -- if the United States even cared anymore about how things add up and if any gold really still resides at Fort Knox. Or even if the gold doesn't reside there anymore, even if there's just a certificate from Barrick promising to dig up an equivalent amount of "deep storage" gold in 15 years. Who is to know the difference?

Whatever the significance of the ECB's marking its gold to market, it seems a little bit to the side of GATA's big interest, which is identifying surreptitious government intervention to defeat markets.

Sundeck (9/9/05; 20:46:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 135791)
College degree not the meal ticket it once was in the US...
On the proposition that Chris Powell should further his education...


A timely article appeared in todays (weekend) Australian Financial Review on the declining "college wage premium" in the US.

Apparently real (average) earnings for workers with a bachelor's degree have declined for four straight years, by a total of 5%, since 2000...with no sign of change. The (average) pay of high-school graduates has eroded less rapidly.

Such a decline was last observed in the 1970s. (Mmmm...is that saying something??)

Reasons are unclear:

- outsourcing of skilled jobs to China and India??
- oversupply in recent years??
- technology getting simpler and easier to use with less need for higher qualifications???
- temporary hangover from the tech-bust??

The college wage premium is still up about 10% since 1994 (and average wages of college graduates are still well above average wages of high-school graduates), but if the decline continues then mums and dads may question the need for all that expense in sending junior to college...

...and Chris Powell may also wonder whether a degree is going to add another string to his bow after all.

;-)

However...it is simplistic to view education (of individuals and of a people) merely in wage terms...or to imagine that education and remuneration should always march in lock-step...but that is yet another complex question that probably doesn't belong on this forum...

:-)



Topaz (9/9/05; 20:06:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 135790)
Moral "Open Interest"
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2678799?htv=12
...seems to be at at all-time high in the US at present with the high ground reverting to prayer en-masse and those (the Commercials) taking the other side of the trade <see Link> plumbing new depths.

We of the Gold Diaspora subscribe to the notion that Gold will only EVER reflect a strength or weakness in the Dollar?

Whereas we of the Free-Gold bent might not care to measure our Gold in Dollars, Euros or any somesuch numeraire.

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 19:30:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 135789)
Missing link for Truman
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/3262
For the end of the previous message.

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 19:28:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 135788)
Replies to OvS, Truman, and Professor Belgian
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/3262
To OvS: This evening I have heartily toasted you and our academic quarry, Professor Belgian. But the idea of going back to school is starting to scare me a little. Somehow I'm reminded of the scene in "Animal House" where all the Delta guys have just been expelled and John Belushi falls back on the floor and sighs: "I can't believe it! Seven years of college down the drain!" Any more toasting tonight and I may feel like I am already back in school.

To Truman: Maybe I misconstrue you, but it is hard for me to believe that anyone at this forum really believes that the U.S. government and other governments have not been engaged in suppressing the gold price in favor of their own currencies. After all, for decades government formally set the gold price via the gold standard; in the 1960s the U.S. and British governments openly enforced an antiquated gold price via the London Gold Pool; former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker writes that the U.S. should have sought to tame the inflation monster and restore the dollar in the late 1970s by selling gold, signifying that the idea of rigging the gold price is far from new in official circles; in 1998 Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress that suppressing the gold price was the purpose of gold leasing by central banks; the Reserve Bank of Australia says that the only purpose for central banks to hold gold reserves these days is currency market intervention, and of course some central banks readily admit regularly intervening to defeat the currency markets; in 2003 Barrick Gold, defending its enormous gold hedging program, affirmed in federal court in New Orleans that the company is the agent of the central banks in the gold market; and the Washington Agreement is a proclamation of central bank management of the gold price. There's still more. But sure the only question here is the degree of manipulation, not the principle. Please consider the remarks posted at the link below. Sneering and walking away here is not exactly making an argument.

To Professor Belgian: You ask, "What makes you think/suspect that European banks are shorting/short gold, and WHY would/could this be the case?"

For starters, the Bank of England's massive gold sales, undertaken precisely at the bottom of the gold market, make no sense except as the rescue of some precarious short positions. A pretty good witness was prepared to attest to this if Reg Howe's lawsuit, underwritten by GATA, had been allowed to go to trial in U.S. District Court in Boston.

Why might banks have been shorting gold? Again, for starters, because it seems to have been for a long time the surest of the carry trades, a carry trade guaranteed by the central banks: borrow gold from governments at essentially no cost and sell it and use the proceeds to buy government bonds that pay substantial interest, thereby helping to depress the price of the metal that competes with government currencies while bringing interest
rates down and reducing government borrowing costs. There is a powerful government interest on both ends of that carry trade, and, while they had the gold, governments were in a position to see that no one who undertook it got into any trouble.

YGM (9/9/05; 17:53:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 135787)
Truman (9/9/05; 15:36:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 135773) GATA Comments
Hackneyed Bug headed?...Spokes from the same hub?
...Doesn't sound like much of an intellectual rebuttal of facts & educated questioning and inspection. Now when some of those brilliant financial minds and experts of a lifetime in the Gold/Financial Markets speak, THAT'S worth listening to. In fact it's even worth travelling across a continent or an ocean to listen to the likes of Murphy, Embry, Lips, Schumacher, Howe, Turk and so many other with unquestionable credentials of, as I say, "A lifetime of involvement" in the world they feel needs inspection and exposure. Over 100 wealthy individuals just did so in Dawson City Yukon. How do your credentials measure up? Did you attend Gold Rush 21 to see what you might have learned? Disagreement can be debated, but to belittle or ridicule serves no purpose other than keeping ones mind in the dark. Thank goodness more & more credible and experienced financial thinkers are now realizing the reality of GATA claims, because they kept an open mind. Not all totally convinced yet perhaps, but keeping the door open nonetheless. As is said often, Knowledge is power, but you learn nothing from a closed book.....Regards...YGM

Belgian (9/9/05; 17:35:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 135786)
CP / OvS
@ CP : What makes you think/suspect that European banks are shorting/short gold...and WHY would/could this be the case ?

And allow me a second, non cryptic, question : Your interpretation of the ECB's MTM (marked to market) of its goldreserves.
TIA.

@OvS : Pretty close mate...very close. LOL

Gandalf the White (9/9/05; 17:05:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 135785)
WELCOME Sir Matthew !
Matthew (9/9/05; 15:57:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 135776
===
Thanks for joining in on the comversations !
<;-)

Sundeck (9/9/05; 16:53:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 135784)
Silver's dream...and a request of Sir(??) Truman
Mmmmm....interesting gold price action lately....contrasts with silver who seems to be content in her stately dream.


@Truman

You said:

"All we're being served by the gata gang is a rehash of the same hackneyed bug-headed sentiments that have been dished out for the past 30 years. All their spokes come from the same hub, and saying the US government has been keeping gold down just to keep the dollar up is simple to the extreme and as useless as being 180 degrees wrong. In fact the questions demonstrated way more insight than the answers did."

Mmmm...perhaps so...although I might have chosen my words differently (and I do suspect that GATA's case has a little more substance than the one you describe).

GATA has contributed a great deal over the years...but, yes, it is difficult to get up each morn and throw a whole lot of choice revelations upon the table...so far as I know, no-one in the world of financial-commentary does it...daily or weekly comentaries are usually a rehash or an extension of prior positions. I think GATA does a pretty good job with the resources at their disposal.

I have learned a lot from GATA over the years and freely admit that I have contributed relatively little in return...thanks GATA! Sure, GATA doesn't have all the answers to all the questions that can be conceived regarding Gold in the world of Money, but who does?

Perhaps Sir Truman could lavish we-of-the-forum with some insights...preferably "answers" not "quetions"...and help get us back on a "zero degrees" course again?

Thanks in advance...

:-)


TownCrier (9/9/05; 16:45:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 135783)
Gene, the Fed and Treasuries
I don't KNOW about the Fed setting up and using Carribean-based "front companies" to buy Treasuries, but I certainly know they have been buying Treasuries (and "printing" money) directly. And to be sure, the Fed has been quite candid about this direct action, to cite my reports ov activity on Wednesday and Thursday as two recent examples.

However, I am disinclined to think that US officials (neither Fed nor Treasury) have been the agressive buyers of the long end (not responsible for the flattening curve phenonenon) because when tightness of supply in the 10-year market as associated with Chicago Board of Trade settlements precipitated investigations earlier this summer, many were left puzzled by the condition, and the Treasury vowed to consider creation of a special lending facility to counter any future squeeze on liquidity. The conclusion to be had from that experience and response is that the U.S. monetary officials are not wanting to see this degree of "strength" in the dollar as manifested in the current 'market' demand upon the long-dated bonds.

Given all that, plus the recent year-long pressure upon China for a currency revaluation, rather than your conclusion that the U.S. is working and trying to say "inflation is a non event", I am more inclined to conclude that the U.S. desperately WANTS to see a "therapeutic" level of dollar depreciation and price inflation take root. I further contend that it is through the devices of foreign parties that this "therapy" is being denied, thus forcing the whole system closer to conclusion that universal change is necessary and will happen. Goodbye to the last vestiges of Bretton Woods, and good riddance.

R.

OvS (9/9/05; 16:41:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 135782)
Chris P.-- regards Belgian.
Great idea. I'm downing a glass
and fill a spare one for inspira-
tion: A man slightly smaller than
average height, balding and on his
way getting a bit grey; spectacles
in goldframes sitting a bit low
on the nose; dark sparkling eyes
and a slight perpetual touch of
a smile that seems to convey that
he knows something most others do
not. The only time he takes off
his glasses is in the shower and
when he closely inspects his roses
in the garden. He even sleeps with
them on, usually falling asleep with
a book on his chest. When he awakens
at night and before he turns off the
lights, he takes a quick look in
one or the other closet just to bathe
and rejuvinate in the glow of his
treasures.
He has not too many friends lives un-
pretentiously in a solid but cozy
brickhouse with a garden well kept.
His study is piled with paperwork but
he won't organize it because then he
wouldn't find things he can extract
with ease now stacked in heaps.
A likeable fellow; would make a great
drinking companion with late night
conversations not just about gold; he
is knowledgeable on many subjects.
Now let us go and find him, Chris.OvS




Goldilox (9/9/05; 16:39:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 135781)
Death of Cash?
An interesting story just crossed the screen. Both FEMA and the Red Cross are admitting their debit card issues have run into a sticky problem.

Many victims do not have local bank accounts (some maybe none at all), and due to federal restrictions, opening bank accounts require multiple forms of ID. FEMA has said that it will not hand out debit cards beyond the Houston Astrodome, but will instead use direct deposit to support registrants.

How will those who have lost ID or do not have a local bank account in their place of refuge be able to use this system?

Guess we'll need to implement that Federal RFID chip sooner rather than later.

From a perspective of gold, this will take it one step closer to full commoditization and further from its former status as "money".

Goldilox (9/9/05; 16:31:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 135780)
Jouralism in action
MSNBC just announced that journalists will not be allowed to accompany the teams searching for bodies in New Orleans. I can "almost" understand the orders that no corpses be shown out of "reverence" for the dead, although hiding the victims of such carnage seems more like adding insult to their injury.

But allowing for that restriction, why are the journalists not even allowed to view the proceedings? Why do they always "try" to attract the suggestion of cover-up?

They scream "trust but verify" in dealings with other governments, but NEVER allow non-insider eyes to see anything they do!

The "double standard" is sickening.

The current story is that all jail detainees are being sent to maximum security prisons, no matter what they were detained for - as evidence and arrest paperwork is all under water and/or destroyed.

Waiting for a court appearance on a traffic warrant is now a maximum security crime requiring prison time unless someone can "find" your paperwork to process it.

EEESH!

USAGOLD Daily Market Report (9/9/05; 16:14:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 135779)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Friday Market Excerpts

September 9 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York ended higher on Friday, extending a rally that saw prices break through a key psychological level the day before. The yellow metal was poised for more gains next week, traders said, after breaking through $450 an ounce Thursday.

Strengthening demand and an upswing of technical buying should offset macro-economic factors like a pause in interest rate hikes and slippage in oil prices, they said.

"Gold is moving on its own momentum," said Paul McLeod, vice president of precious metals at Commerzbank.

"Today was a consolidation day before we push up again next week."

Prices got a lift from fund buying, and possible short covering and the appearance of new longs in the market.

Fundamentals also appeared solid, with an absence of central bank selling and seasonally strong demand expected from Indian jewelry buyers and Middle East investors.

COMEX December gold contracts settled up $2.30 at $453.00.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Gene (9/9/05; 16:12:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 135778)
Towncrier
Randy, I believe where there's smoke there has got to be a little fire.All the conspiracy theories cannot be just empty thought.
1. Gold & silver price suppression.
2. Stock market manipulation.
3. Massaged CPI & PPI data.
4. Massaged unemployment data.
5. Off budget expenditures to hide more deficit spending.
6. And the latest on which I would like to hear your
comments. The Fed is printing money and buying
Treasuries thru front companies they have set up in
the Carribean to keep long interest rates down, thereby
giving the impression that inflation is a non event.
Anyone who believes inflation is a non event simply is an idiot or has not purchased anything lately.
I can see by your posts that you follow Treasuries closely.
What do you think? Nothing would surprise me about the goings on in gov't these days, which is why I'm buying some more gold come Monday. Regards, Gene


Goldilox (9/9/05; 16:04:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 135777)
College Course?
@ OvS,

Your tongue-in-cheek suggestion about a "college course" rings true in so many areas that will never be given airtime because professors who dare question authority are "demonized" and sent packing.

The course I would like to see is how to successfully turn an S & L crisis ripoff into a political dynasty.

Or, as a science buff, maybe a course in "alternative views" in science and the people who have had their careers ruined for "daring to disagree" with current academic dogma.

We hear so much about "freedom" and "diversity", but bringing that attitude into the workplace, academia, or now days, even journalism, wins a quick ticket to obscurity and "blackball" status.

Matthew (9/9/05; 15:57:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 135776)
Hello
Just to introduce myself on the forum. I have been lurking for about 8 months and look forward to joining the discussions.
It is reassuring to see free thought and speech in action.
Regards,
Matthew

Goldilox (9/9/05; 15:47:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 135775)
Las Vegas?
@Whire Hills,

"The Market is like Las Vegas, they don't care who wins or loses but rather how how much money is bet (flucuations)."

Since the house is a participant in most games, they definitely care who wins!

Your analogy is only true for Poker and PaiGow, but they make their real money on the slots.

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 15:38:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 135774)
College course
Thanks, OvS, for your compliment, but as for
teaching a college course, I would much
prefer to join you as skeptical if not
troublesome students in a course taught by
Belgian. We could follow him home and find
out who he really is and who he hangs out
with!

Truman (9/9/05; 15:36:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 135773)
OvS you're right, but
it's easy to be concise when theres no substance. It's a bunch of empty calories with nothing that sticks to your ribs.

All we're being served by the gata gang is a rehash of the same hackneyed bug-headed sentiments that have been dished out for the past 30 years. All their spokes come from the same hub, and saying the US government has been keeping gold down just to keep the dollar up is simple to the extreme and as useless as being 180 degrees wrong. In fact the questions demonstrated way more insight than the answers did.

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 15:26:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 135772)
Dennis Gartman goes for a black helicopter ride
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/3317
Latest GATA dispatch.



To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


Topaz (9/9/05; 15:23:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 135771)
@Glox.
Good to see someone else connecting the dots ...whilst Mr Norcini's take is imo somewhat askew, theres no doubt that HSBC clobbered Comex for 100K Oz of Metal yesterday and we wait (impatiently) for Todays trading update.

The 7.7 EQ in PNG was revised up from 7.3 and we've had some reverberations since.
Hopefully that'll be that for this Lunar Go-Round.

PoG really needs to get a leg-up to a new trading range of $475 - $480 if they're going to keep a lid on it, they can't keep throwing Metal at the inferno at this price for much longer one would think.

... We watch! ...

OvS (9/9/05; 15:10:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 135770)
Chris.P.
Crispy, clear and concise.
Maybe you ought to give a
college-course on how to
do it? Well done. OvS

Chris Powell (9/9/05; 14:09:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 135769)
Reply to 968's questions from the other day
Here is a belated reply to 968's questions to me of the other day....

* What is the purpose of the gold price suppression, according to GATA?

Largely to protect the U.S. dollar and other government currencies. See Andrew Hepburn's summary of GATA's work here:

http://www.gata.org/SummaryOFGATA%27sWork.html

* How are the European central banks involved and why?

The European central banks are the direct sellers and lessors of gold, though it is likely that to some extent they are fronting for the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve through gold swaps and other mechanisms. Why are the European central banks involved? Probably to some extent the European central banks are bailing out the gold short positions of commercial European banks. Of course we've all read Belgian's intriguing speculations about the desire of the European central banks to facilitate a smooth transition to a world economic system based on something other than the dollar, with their gold sales and leases meant to prevent any abrupt changes along the way.

* How does GATA see gold in an evolution from a dollar reserve system to another reserve system?

GATA has no particular position on this. Some of its officers and consultants would support returning to a gold standard. Most of us probably would settle for the libertarian position of leaving nations and individuals completely free to use whatever they wanted as money -- dollars, euros, zlotys, casino chips, cattle, seashells, gold, silver -- and let the best money win. (We have a good idea which ones that would be.)

* What is the benefit for the U.S. (the dollar) of a suppressed gold price, and what is the benefit of a suppressed gold price for euro countries?

Gold is a competitive currency and so the gold price is the inverse of the dollar and other currencies. Suppressing the gold price and extending the reach of the dollar are central mechanisms of U.S. imperialism. The benefits of this to Europe are not clear to us.

* According to GATA, what did Wim Duisenberg mean when he said, "The euro is the first currency that severed its link to gold"?

It is an interesting statement but GATA has no position on it.

* Why did TPTB do everything in their power in 1980 to get the POG back down? Why couldn't they live with a high POG?

The Powers That Be did NOT do everything in their power in 1980 to get the gold price back down. Former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker wrote in his memoirs that the U.S. government should have sold gold at that time but didn't. GATA believes that the need to control gold by sales and leases is the lesson the central banks drew from the U.S. inflation of the late 1970s and early 1980s. Again, gold being a competitive currency, governments and central banks don't want it increasing in value relative to their own currencies.

* How do TPTB manage the price of gold, according to GATA? Last time GATA stated that the price of gold was managed because of the rising level of derivatives on gold (cfr. BIS statistics). The time before that it was because European central banks were selling gold. Can you elaborate?

Gold sales and leases by central banks are public record and they are the primary mechanisms for controlling the gold price. They underwrite all the gold derivatives and insure the anti-gold speculations of large financial houses. GATA believes that most of the derivative positions in gold recorded at the BIS and MorganChase are actually more or less U.S. government and central bank positions.

* Why haven't gold producers created a similar cartel like OPEC?

GATA hardly could advocate another anti-trust violation. A better question is: Why haven't gold producers recognized and acted upon the aggression against them by central banks? The most likely answer is ignorance and fear of government, central banks, and big commercial banks. GATA admits that this fear is well-founded.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.


White Hills (9/9/05; 13:47:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 135768)
Market on Drugs?
The Market goes up the Market goes down. It does this because that is what the Market does not because of any particular reason but because the people who work ,invest and run the Market needs tnis up and down to make MONEY. To try and figure the market moves is to try and count the stars. The Market is like Las Vegas, they don't care who wins or loses but rather how how much money is bet (flucuations). Like Las Vegas the Market is a ZERO SUM GAME as it counts on new money coming in to pay the profits of the old money already there. Everytime somebody sells and makes a profit he is taking the money of some poor slob that just bought the stock. Go figure. White Hills

Goldilox (9/9/05; 13:31:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 135767)
Just an aside . . .
Speaking of "markets on drugs", I was in the engineering department at an up and coming computer company in the '90s when we merged with a competitor. After listening to the suits deliver their pep talks, I mumbled to a colleague that the Director of Mktg. from the acquired company should be tested for formaldehyde, as he already sounded dead!

An hour later I was called into my VP's office, assuming I was meat for my gran faux pas!

He proceeded to tell to me that a number of people heard my comments, and explained that it was really poor taste to interrupt the man's somber self-eulogy with such ribald truth.

I got the message, and the Marketing geek was gone in a week.

Goldilox (9/9/05; 13:18:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 135766)
Market on Drugs?
snip:

If there was ever a dandy time to see market manipulation in action it would be this morning. Not only did my friend, the gold trader here in L.A. call me to report that the markets were showing closed briefly, but that they would reopen at 8 AM local time - but out comes the horrible - and I mean horrible like the puke scenes in the movies horrible - consumer confidence number. 61.5 is a light year from year ago levels around 103.

Now, what would you think a market would do under the weight of such obvious and undeniable bad news? Rally? Last thought on my mind - but that's what happened following the announcement. Thus, Mr. Ure's suggestion that there be mass drug testing imposed at the NYSE - because that's the only answer other than outright manipulation at the fed window that seems to make sense to me. With this kind of mass delusion in place, a large-scale terrorist attack would surely send the market to new all time highs.

-Goldilox

It must be the lumps they put in the mashed potatoes!

Goldilox (9/9/05; 13:15:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 135765)
More Shakes - Magnitude 7.7 - NEW IRELAND REGION, PAPUA NEW GUINEA
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2005/uscuah/
More shimmies in the South Pacific. Pretty good size, too.

TownCrier (9/9/05; 13:00:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 135764)
Analyst touts possibility of $500 gold by year's end
http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=5401725&format=reformatted&subject=markets&action=article
2005-09-09, SAN FRANCISCO (AFX) -- Gold futures looked poised to mark their seventh-consecutive winning session Friday, trading 1% above the week-ago level, with one analyst touting the possibility of $500 gold by the end of the year.

Gold futures prices may climb as much as 10% by year's end "if the economic conditions show further momentum, such as more employment gains are above 192,000 on average per month for the next two consecutive months," said John Person, president of National Futures Advisory Service.

That would put gold at the $500 level, he said.

^---(from url)---^

For 2004, gold's average price was $409.25, up nearly 13 percent from 2003's average of $363.50 per ounce.

The average price for 2002 was $310.00, and the average 2001 price was $271.00 per ounce.

In percentage terms, yearly gains in average annual price for the past three years have been 14.4 percent, 17.3 percent, and 12.6 percent.

And from our current price level of $450, we continue to see, year on year, gold poised and doing its thing.

Additionally, the ten percent gains as predicted in this article, for the remaining 4 months of the year, are certainly nothing to sneeze at. Choose physical gold for your savings, you'll be glad you did.

R.

TownCrier (9/9/05; 12:47:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 135763)
Longer-dated US Treasuries' prices rise, flattening curve
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh15001_2005-09-09_17-58-11_n09493793_newsml
NEW YORK, Sept 9 (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury debt prices rose on Friday, especially longer-dated debt...

"We're slowly coming back to the pre-Katrina mind-set, which would be: The Fed's going to continue to tighten and inflation will not be a problem, even due to higher energy prices."

For now, that meant longer-dated Treasuries were rising in price, pushing yields down.

"A bit of a flattening trend has worked its way back into the market.

Benchmark 10-year notes rose 7/32 in price for a yield of 4.12 percent, down from 4.15 percent on Thursday. That yield move helped narrow the closely watched spread between two- and 10-year notes 1 basis point to 26.

Part of the movement at the long end of the market was a reflection of the benign long-term inflation outlook that would accompany any rise in short-term rates.

But buying was also buoyed by Asian buyers returning to the market this week...

^---(from url)----^

The "conundrum" continues to baffle the media and the traders...

R.

mikal (9/9/05; 12:40:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 135762)
Correction to story below
Several words were deleted in my cut and paste. The second sentence of the story should read: "But he and the authors of a remarkable new report still harbor suspicions ABOUT MARKET MANIPULATION- something THAT could end badly for investors." Thanks

TownCrier (9/9/05; 12:30:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 135761)
China's Zhou sees further evolution of forex rate
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh13116_2005-09-09_16-32-34_n09349512_newsml
(excerpts)

Sept 9 (Reuters) - Zhou Xiaochuan, the governor of the People's Bank of China, said on Friday...

"After the initial adjustment of 2 percent I think there will be no further adjustment, but the exchange rate level will move ... based on the floating mechanism," Zhou told a central banker round table in Calgary...

Noting that economic conditions in China were good for exchange rate reform, Zhou added: "After the initial reform, we are going to see further evolution of our exchange rate regime."

...said those changes could lessen the role of the central bank and of the basket of currencies currently being used.

...said China has to take steps to boost domestic demand.

^---(from url)---^

Winds of change. Add it up. Encouraging citizens to own physical gold is a helpful component of the balanced equation.

R.

mikal (9/9/05; 12:30:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 135760)
President's Working Group on Financial Markets and ESF(Exchange Stabilization Fund) info from Chris Powell
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B4D6EA397%2D1A92% 2D4662%2DB157%2D13B33B17A4A7%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=
To: gata@yahoogroups.com Subject: [GATA] Peter Brimelow of CBSMarketWatch notes new Sprott report on market manipulation
Sprott's researchers connect the dots;
Report suggests U.S. market manipulation is for real
By Peter Brimelow
CBSMarketWatch.com Friday, September 9, 2005
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B4D6EA397%2D1A92%2D4662%2DB157%2D13B33B17A4A7%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=
NEW YORK -- A legendary bear may have turned bullish, sort of. But he and the authors of a remarkable new report still harbor suspicions something could end badly for investors.
Dow Theory Letters' Richard Russell was artfully qualifying his sudden bullishness on Thursday night. He's just suggesting that "those willing to speculate" should buy Spyders, the S&P 500 tracking stock. And it may not work. (Russell played the 2003 bounce this way too.) Russell's also making bullish noises on gold. And his comment that really got my attention late Thursday was this: "You can be sure that the central banks don't want to see an upside breakout in gold. ... The primary trend of gold is bullish, however, and the primary trend is stronger than all the central banks in the world taken together. When gold's time comes, gold will brush by the manipulations of the central banks and their friends, the gold banks."
This suspicion of covert market manipulation by governments in alliance with favored private-sector firms has been voiced with increasing frequency by Russell and other letters. Indeed, several letters muttered about suspicious late-day rallies as detailed in our June 27, 2002, column. Of course, it's too wild an idea for most of the mainstream media. But now two respected figures in the Canadian investment industry, John Embry and Andrew Hepburn of Toronto's Sprott Asset Management, have published a report, "Move Over, Adam Smith: The Visible Hand of Uncle Sam." It pieces together from published sources evidence that points to the existence of the long-rumored "Plunge Protection Team," an informal group of U.S. government agencies, stock exchanges, and large Wall Street firms. (The report's downloadable from the firm's Web site:
http://www.sprott.com/pdf/pressrelease/TheVisibleHand.pdf For starters, the Sprott reports quotes former Clinton adviser George Stephanopoulos apparently confirming the group's existence and revealing that the Federal Reserve directed large banks to prop up currency markets in the wake of the Long-Term Capital Management crisis in 1998. The last episode Sprott thinks it has definitely traced was before the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003. A U.S.-Japanese agreement to intervene to prevent any financial crisis during the war was announced by a Japanese official, perhaps because the government intervention in markets is openly admitted in Japan. The U.S. never acknowledged such an accord.
Sprott doesn't necessarily oppose government intervention in
principle -- the apparent interventions after 9/11 or the 1987 crash, for instance -- but says such intervention requires "the most stringent safeguards and transparency."
Instead, Sprott asserts that "what apparently started as a stopgap measure may have morphed into a serious moral hazard situation, with market manipulation an endemic feature of the U.S. stock market."
All this raises two problems. First, possible corruption. As Sprott puts it: "There can be no doubt that the firms responsible for implementing government interventions enjoy an enviable position unavailable to other investors. Whether they have been indemnified against potential losses or simply made privy to government policy, the major Wall Street firms evidently responsible for preventing plunges no longer must compete on anywhere near a level playing field."
Second, there's the matter of ultimate breakdown. Says Sprott: "Displaying markedly low volatility, the Dow hovers comfortably above the 10,000 mark. Yet with severe trade and budget deficits, rising interest rates, and stubbornly high oil prices, the reasons to be bearish on U.S. equities are numerous. Strangely, the market has an uncanny ability to maintain its footing when serious declines threaten. ... This curious trading activity is suspicious to say the least." If that's right, economic reality may eventually intrude and, as Russell says, "brush by" the manipulators -- and the investors misled by them.
----------------------------------------------------
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USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (9/9/05; 12:09:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 135759)
FREE Gold Information Packet...
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html





Caradoc (9/9/05; 08:58:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 135758)
@Gandalf
They're having even less fun now than a few minutes ago, but I don't feel sorry for them. Thanks for the link!

Caradoc

Gandalf the White (9/9/05; 08:43:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 135757)
The US$ chart at the above LINK --- <;-)
http://charts-d.quote.com:443/1002980432830?User=demo&Pswd=demo&DataType=GIF&Symbol=DX00Y&Interval=10&Ht=600&Wd=800&Display=2&Study=MA&Param1=13&Param2=0&Param3=&FontSize=10
The "YOYO" mode has returned and the ESF Boyz are not having fun !
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (yellow)
<;-)

PRITCHO (9/9/05; 06:05:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 135756)
That Link -- - -
Is a bit slow to load as an ad comes first -- not quite free internet :)
but worth waiting for.

PRITCHO (9/9/05; 06:03:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 135755)
From Another Site - - -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090801862_pf.html

Date: Fri Sep 09 2005 02:28
(the vampire ) ID#24158:
must be INVITED into your house .. once he's
in .. you have a problem

-- - - - -- - - -- - - -
kinda scary isn't it?




Goldendome (9/9/05; 00:16:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 135754)
Physical Gold-Large- leaves the exchange.
http://www.jsmineset.com/home.asp
From Dan Norcini on the James Sinclair site, Thursday Sept. 8th:

...Some interesting doings in the September gold contract to note. Yes, Aunt Millie, there is a September gold contract although hardly anyone bothers to notice it. The only reason I make mention of it is because yesterday something quite interesting appeared to have taken place in there.

The open interest in the September surged an amazing 1001 contracts, bringing the total open interest to 1003. In other words, on the verge of contract expiration and with the delivery process in full swing, 1001 new long positions were initiated. It appears that HSBC was the group involved as they stopped (took possession of or stood for delivery of) the entire amount of open interest in that contract which was 1003 according to the exchange's information. At 100 ounces per contract, that is over 100,000 ounces of gold which at yesterday's price was valued at $44.6 million. For whom they stopped it and where it went is anyone's guess. Maybe an ETF or some private clients, but the fact is that it was taken. That is always a pleasure to see.





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