 Centennial Precious Metals Gold coins & bullion since 1973 Denver, Colorado 80246-0009 We educate first-time investors! |
for quotes and purchase information.
|
ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/9/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
tg
(04/09/01; 23:45:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 51654)
al fulchino
Something i forgot to add, you talk about China having
1/suppression of religon. Better that then manipulation of religon to suit the status quo. If they cant manipulate it they get rid of it, just like they did in Waco
2/slave labour camps. - Im not sure they exist in China, but if they do are they similar to minimum wage in the US. It would suprise you to know how many people live below the poverty line. Im talking third world numbers. Do you now that the US has the largest prison population in the world per capita. Is that similar to a slave labour camp. Why is there such a huge prison population in the US - is it because of the dis-enfranchisement of the average citizen??
3/ free speech. - dont even get started on that. You THINK you have free speech and freedom of the press. As a long time forum member i would think that you would know better by now. I guess that psycho-politics has worked well
Seeker of the Grail
(04/09/01; 23:42:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 51653)
@ Simply Me
Dear Sir,
With respect to your post 51652,
"As for the air collision, it was the Chinese pilot's fault. He was a known hotdogger. We had complained about him to the
Chinese before. He had a habit of flying up under our larger airplanes' belly and popping up right in front of their noses to
scare the crap out of them. This time he misjudged and came up too close and couldn't get out of the way fast enough. Our
plane was too big to maneuver out of the way, too. It was the Chinese pilot's fault."
Could you please post the link to the information so we can verify the credibility. Sheeple believe blindly and I'm sure the other members of this forum would like to make up their own minds rather than just accept it as so.
SOTG
Simply Me
(04/09/01; 23:21:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 51652)
Spy vs. Spy
This whole Chinese/US air collision situation is as absurd as the old Mad Comic books' "Spy vs. Spy" cartoons. We spy on them, they spy on us. It's a moot point, not even worth arguing about.
As for the air collision, it was the Chinese pilot's fault. He was a known hotdogger. We had complained about him to the Chinese before. He had a habit of flying up under our larger airplanes' belly and popping up right in front of their noses to scare the crap out of them. This time he misjudged and came up too close and couldn't get out of the way fast enough. Our plane was too big to maneuver out of the way, too. It was the Chinese pilot's fault.
The Chinese saying the US airplane caused the collision is like saying, "It's your fault. Your Zamboni cut off my Ferrari."
Now, I think the smart thing to do would be apologize, get our people back and then GIVE Taiwan all the military equipment they want. Here China...here's your apology with a Stinger Missle chaser. Oh, and by the way, it WAS your fault.
The longer they hold our people hostage, the worse the trade with China looks. US buys elsewhere. Prices rise. US Companies doing business in China lose money. Stocks slump. Americans already angry with Chinese gov't over hostage situation blame China for inflation, job losses and investment losses. The sabre rattling gets louder. US cuts interest rates to try and float economy. Euro holds interest rates steady. Foreigner's sell out of weaker, riskier dollar...buy Euros.
Does this mean war? Who knows. But, between this and the energy games, I'm looking for the gold trade timeline to speed up soon. It's the perfect time for a spike. When no one, outside of us die-hard gold advocates and a few mining stock holders, is looking.
I missed the announcement of the USAGold contest winners...but whoever you are, "Congratulations!"
simply
tg
(04/09/01; 23:19:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 51651)
al fulchino
A quote from the link you gave -
"Psychopolitics is the art and science of asserting and maintaining dominion over the thoughts and loyalties of the individuals, officers, bureaus, and masses, and the effecting of the conquest of the enemy nations through "mental healing."
That is exactly what is happening in the US today.
Also, no one is saying China is without guilt or wrong doings, either today or in the past. The point of contention is that people like you have had your thoughts and loyalties so brain- washed that you never envisage that the US ever commits a wrong.
Journeyman
(04/09/01; 23:06:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 51650)
Where does the buck stop? @Al Fulchino, Le Sin, tg, Et, ALL
I agree, Sir Al: You and I are _not_ responsible for the Boxer
Rebellion - - - or selling opium to the Chinese. At least not
very responsible and if at all only thru dubious association with
a group of folks who claim they spoke for our ancestors based on
a majority vote.
Now this brings up a very, very deep and sticky question: Who's
responsible for what governments do? If you voted for the the
losing side, are you _still_ responsible for what happens if the
_winning_ side screws up? How about if you don't vote at all?
O.K. Now for the tough part. Most governments and other folks
don't care. They lump everyone who was born or lives within
certain borders as responsible for whatever the government that
claims that bordered area does. This leads to gross miscarriages
of justice.
A couple of examples: Saddam Hussein, before the U.S. et.al.
bombing during Desert Massacre, was hated by most Iraqis. But at
least 200,000 of them were none-the-less killed in the bombing
and as a result of the "collateral" damage.
Example 2: The Serbian people in some of the largest and longest-
lasting demonstrations in history proved they really disliked
their leader Slobodan Milosevic just a few months before the U.S.
led and illegal NATO bombing. None-the-less at least 7,000 of
them were killed because of what the NATO leaders (criminals
according to their own rules) claimed their hated Milosevic had
done.
And finally consider what this approach, holding local
inhabitants responsible for what their leaders do, can lead to.
What about all those folks from California. Are they _all_
responsible for the governments there that prevented the building
of power generation facilities over the last ten years?
And: Demonstrating unusual discrimination, Ossama bin Ladin, in
an interview with Diane Sawyer in 1997, stated that he was
declaring war on the U.S. Government and the U.S. Military only.
However in "Troops to Kosovo; Terror for Americans?" February 24,
1999, Phyllis Schlafley reported that bin Laden claimed he would
now go after any Americans "including those who pay taxes."
So _are_ you responsible for what those people in Washington do?
Because many folks from foreign countries violated by U.S. action
and often with access to biological weapons (often originally
supplied by the U.S. Government) will act as if you and your
family are indeed responsible.
Keeping that in mind, do you think it might be a good idea to
discourage those Washington D.C. folks from messing all over the
hood?
Regards,
Journeyman
Al Fulchino
(04/09/01; 21:01:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 51649)
Mr Strad Master /Journeyman/ET
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/psychopolitics.html
I am glad that my offer was not long unaccepted. Anyone who spends the time reading the entire piece, linked above will look at the world a bit differently or will have some thoughts verified. Happy reading, and share it with someone. Better yet print it off and leave it on a coffee table somewhere. And for a real interesting lesson, show it to your highschool or college age children, as I have. They won't ever think of classmate Johnny, who is on Ritalin, the same way again. Happy reading!
Journeyman, Hi how are you?
you write:
And Sir Fulchino, was it the American _people_ that sold-out to the
Chinese _leaders_ or was it the American _leader_, Bill Clinton?
It was Mr Bill and a cadre of people, including those who chose to ignore much about Bill, in order to just put anyone in who wasn't a better man. There comes a point where most democrats, voters and party activists will gather around and support a snake, as long as it is theirs and verifies who they are so that no one messes with their little fiefdoms. Sad to say, that the democratic party and most of its supporters have abandoned their heritage.
ET, I have to say, you really suprised me. I had nothing to do with any Chinese history, and while I am at it, I have never fostered slavery. Dear ET how far can you go with von Mises? Did you foster any opium sales???? All nations in the world have transgressed at one time or another. It is all wrong. Do you think the RED Chinese <be aware all that I have always used the term RED to seperate them from the Chinese race, just as I would say RED Italians, it is simply a communist association, thank you> perhaps bring up all the wrongs commited against them in order to hide what they do to their own people? How bizarre that they blame us while doing what they themselves do. It only preys on the good minded people of our country that we should feel any guilt today. I did nothing to the Chinese people and it is DOUBTFUL that anyone here reading this did anything wrong either. Look instead at the Red Chinese government. Stop biting your nails over our actions, WE have done nothing wrong concerning opium, boxer rebellions etc. How long must the past sins of another generation haunt us all the while we turn our eyes and our COMMENTS away from their own lack of free speech, slave labor camps, suppression of religion, and how about their little family planning clinics?
respectfully submitted
Peter Asher
(04/09/01; 20:54:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 51648)
Hey Mr G.
Even with the eye of knowledgeable humor on it, they still don't "get it’.
Re >>> God knows there will be plenty of time for that come Tuesday, when everything you've worked for vanishes in a matter of seconds." <<<
Everything they worked for vanished the moment they exchanged it for stock certificates. All that they have is the ‘hope’ that someone else will at some point give them every thing ‘they’ worked for!
Seeker of the Grail
(04/09/01; 20:52:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 51647)
I Can't think of a Good Title
Sirs....PLEASE!!!!
1'st please M.K. I appologise for using some of your bandwidth for this post.
Journeyman...RIGHT ON!
Gentlemen:
I due appreciate your patriotism, but when does the meddling and involvement end...when young men are dragged through the streets?? If the cause was so noble would this not fortify the conviction that the cause was right??
If someone backed into your car would you not expect an apology?
If someone was "CAUGHT" looking in your bedroom window would you not AT LEAST expect an apology?
Does being a super power carry the weight of that much VANITY?
Is "I'm sorry" worth 24 sons and daughters? ... apparantly not!....and TO HELL with the plane.
Approximatley 8 years ago there was an incident where a US nuclear sub was caught in Canadian territorial waters under the artic ice flows....What was the US response???.....If you can't defend it you don't deserve to own it!!!
I do like the American people, but the arrogance and meddling of your government somtimes P'SS ME OFF.
AS Panda pointed out we are told whom to like and whom to hate. THROW out your T.V. sets. because that is what makes "sheeple" out of all of us.
"thou shalt not KILL"....where did that come from anyway?
"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"....where did that come from?
Since some quote the scriptures around here...
Seriously, if the shoe was on the other foot, an American plane down off California coast and somebody's son was dead, and the damaged Chinese SPY PLANE had to land on US soil what would the spin be then? Oh.. wouldn't be an incident I'm sure!!! The crew and the plane would be immediatley returned......(if it wasn't shot down first!)
Since it is never you nor I who start these wars/confrontations ( or your sons and daughters) since there is no personal hatred why should they pay the price?
Rather I suggest....Under the rule of chivilry if a deul is called you don't "job it out" to someone else!
I suggest .... that upon being elected, an oath is taken that they are personally responsible for their actions and all politicians of both sides of the confrontation be given clubs and broad swords and put on some island somewhere to "FIGURE IT OUT" Just maybe then you will get some RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT.
Maybe some other poster was right... these confrontations are created to divert attention from the SM or stimulate the economy
Sorry again M.K.
May your chalice overflow,
SOTG
EagleOne
(04/09/01; 20:37:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 51646)
Mr. Gresham
http://www.theonion.com/onion3712/disposable_car.html
One last shot for the link.
Peter Asher
(04/09/01; 20:34:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 51645)
Strad Master (4/9/2001; 16:08:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 51635)
'Evening Strad. (How goes the countdown?)
The event would never have happened in the previous administration, they had Klinton in their pocket (book) and did not need to resort to an 'incident'.
I imagine though, that they knew they couldn't buy the current group and this was the alternative.
EagleOne
(04/09/01; 20:33:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 51644)
Mr. GRESHAM per your request. Msg. # 51640
How about a six-pack of these? Topic may actually be gold related if rumors prove true that the catalytic converter contains two oz. of gold.
http://www.theonion.com/onion3712/disposable_car.html
Hope this works. Poster is often linkage impaired.
tg
(04/09/01; 20:07:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 51643)
journeyman, le sin, the invisible hand, et
Pleased to see some thinkers remain on the forum. I was starting to wonder if all the thinkers had left.
I find it perculiar that some people on this forum can see financial manipulations but not other manipulations that go on.
The USA is the sole superpower or as the French now call it a hyperpower.
The express interest of the US is not to bring peace and christian values to the rest of the world as people like tedw would believe, but rather it is to look after the economic interests of corporate America. The USA has chosen empire over individual liberty
The USA today does not care about its citizens nor those of the rest of the world. Its sole concern is big buisiness.
I have no problem with that, and i play the game as best i can.However I will not be led down a path of hatred towards other nationalities because it suits the administration at that time.
The USA is evil when it suits its interests and the USA is saintly when it suits its interests. The only problem is that one can never know the truth without a free press. We have no free press. Thank God for the internet and forums like this. I would hate to see it over-run by people who read the propaganda in the newspapers and report it back here.
auspec
(4/9/2001; 18:42:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 51642)
Who's Next?
We Want Free
From a communication from Paul van Eeden:
<<Introduction
In today's Wall Street Journal, the lead article stated that President
Bush's Energy Plan would increase the United States' reliance on nuclear
power. "Senior Administration officials said that the strategy is designed
to relieve some of the pressure on the natural gas industry. [They] said
nuclear power should account for a higher percentage of U.S. electricity
than the current level of 20%." Mr. Cheney said that some of the 65 power
plants that the U.S. must build every year should be nuclear. Currently
there are no plans in the US to build nuclear power plants.
The Bush Administration's shift towards nuclear power is in response to the
environmental disadvantages of burning fossil fuels, which release
contamination into the atmosphere. Specifically, the issue seems to revolve
around carbon dioxide, a gas thought to contribute to the "greenhouse
effect". Nuclear power is one of the cleanest sources of power available. In
a related event, Canada has decided to re-open two of the four nuclear
reactors in Ontario that were shut down for maintenance.
**The uranium bear market is over**
In my opinion nuclear fuel is one of the best sources of power available and
it looks like the bear market in uranium is coming to an end. On March 7,
2000 I mailed a report to clients recommending Cameco at $11.50 a share.
The stock is now trading at $23 and it is still the best uranium company
available.>>
Platinum, palladium, and now uranium will trade along the lines of market fundamentals. Who will be freed next? IMBY
{someone's back yard is going to get toasty warm}
R Powell
(4/9/2001; 18:22:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 51641)
Journeyman 51638
Agree and well said.
Rich
Mr Gresham
(4/9/2001; 17:40:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 51640)
Dagnabbity! Need some HUMOR 'round here!
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0103/panic.shtml
"MARKET EXPERTS SAY NOW IS NO TIME TO PANIC;
TIME TO PANIC COMES NEXT TUESDAY
Market Simply Undergoing "Healthy Correction" Until Devastating Freefall
"Washington, D.C. (SatireWire.com) — Despite the sharp downturn in the stock market, economic and financial experts today advised investors to remain calm and continue to hold on for the long-term, which they said would end abruptly next Tuesday when a market panic wipes out 90 percent of the world's wealth.
"I realize things look a little dodgy right now, but this is no time for people to lose their cool," said U.S. Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. "God knows there will be plenty of time for that come Tuesday, when everything you've worked for vanishes in a matter of seconds."
ET
(4/9/2001; 17:20:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 51639)
Lew Rockwell
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/chinaisright.html
From the article;
"The message is obvious: the US can do whatever it wants with its military, but believes
itself exempt from the very laws it wants to apply to others. This attitude engenders
hatred around the world.
"Though no one in the US cares to remember, the Chinese have not forgotten the US
role in the so-called Opium Wars. In this 19th-century drug war, military force was
used to addict the Chinese to drugs so as to create customers for opium. Nor have
they forgotten the Boxer Rebellion, when US troops – in pursuit of continuing
economic control – burned and looted the ancient imperial compound. Nor, to take
more recent examples, have they forgotten the US threatening them twice in the 1950s
with nuclear annihilation for responding to huge Taiwanese troop movements to the
islands of Quemoy and Matsu near the mainland.
"To say there are double standards at work here is a wild understatement. Despite all
the mistreatment, Beijing doesn't want war. It wants the US to behave like a
responsible trading partner, not the world hegemon it has become. But there is only so
much humiliation and bloodshed that a nation can be subjected to before its citizens
demand reprisal.
"Washington probably doesn't want war either. What it wants is a license to spy on and
otherwise invade the world, killing and maiming whenever the time seems right, and
never having to be held responsible. Washington wants what every bully wants: the
freedom to beat people up and never pay the price."
Journeyman
(4/9/2001; 17:08:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 51638)
Getting it straight @tedw, Al Fulchino (&Tree in the Forest msg#:51632)
tedw msg#:51608: THE CHINESE LEADER ARE ARROGANT,EVIL, AND
AGGRESSORS.
tedw, you've got that straight!
But your statement applies to American leaders as well. Or don't
invading Panama and Grenada, against international law, blowing
up an Algerian pharmaceutical plant with Tomahawk missiles,
bombing Serbia (against international law and the provisions of
the NATO charter), using CS gas (outlawed by the Geneve
Convention even for use in warfare) against men, women AND
_children_ in the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas - - -
just to mention a few - - - count?
Tree in the Forest (msg#: 51632 Propaganda) certainly got it
straight, particularly in quoting Pandagold:
Pandagold (03/04/01; msg#: 49360): "Up until the first world war
there was no history of hate between Germany and England. We are
both from the same stock, and if we were involved in any battles
it was both on the same side. Then suddenly, almost overnight we
were taught to hate. But, as that first Christmas of 1914 showed,
even though war had been declared, the hate was not there in the
common man. Who will we be told to hate the next time? It shows
how media ... is used to manipulate our thinking and our actions.
Control a people's thinking, and you control the people."
So, do you want to hurt the Chinese _people_ or is it their
leaders you don't like? Do the Chinese _people_ hate the
American _people_ for illegally bombing their embassy in Belgrade
- - - or is it the American _leaders_ they don't like? And Sir
Fulchino, was it the American _people_ that sold-out to the
Chinese _leaders_ or was it the American _leader_, Bill Clinton?
Do the world's problems come from the _people_? Or do they come
from somewhere else?
We ALL need to get it straight: If we do not do so, we will
continue to be manipulated and controlled, and not to our
benefit.
Regards,
Journeyman
Mr Gresham
(4/9/2001; 16:34:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 51637)
Great Quotes
I'm sure I could look it up online and get it right, but thinking back to reading it 20 years ago, didn't someone say something like:
"Woe to him who is angry with his neighbor without cause. Agree with thy neighbor, whilst you are in a way with him. Otherwise, he will hail you into court, and you will not leave until he has grabbed your last farthing..."
or some such (I'd welcome a correction if needed...)
-- think I got the spirit of it?
Mr Gresham
(4/9/2001; 16:24:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 51636)
Belgian
"Is 260$ a new Derivative pain-point ? Is there fear that a break through on 260$, will signal and anticipate ALARM ?"
Why, no, sir. 260 is the OFFICIAL price of gold. Until it isn't.
They know no-one will go to jail for this, so why not do it? The history won't be written for years after it's all over.
(Actually, I wonder what the budget for Gold Control is. It's probably cheap, compared to those for Dollar Protection, and Stock Ramping. Anyway, it's all OPM. And, once enthusiasm takes over, the Gold Control budget is shot. "An ounce of prevention...")
Strad Master
(4/9/2001; 16:08:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 51635)
Al Fulchino
"Russian Psychopolitics" Sounds fascinating! I've heard that such a book exists. Here is my request for you to post the link. Many thanks.
So far I think GWB has done a remarkably good job handling this China mess. He (meaning GWB and the adminitration) has demonstrated a real understanding of geopolitics, and presented a tactful, measured, and firm positiion to the Chineese. It would not be good for the world's only remaining super-power to knuckle-under to the bullying of a bunch of third-world thugs. Thank God this didn't happen during the previous administration!
Randy (@ The Tower)
(1/1/1904; 0:05:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 51634)
Take heed of a gentleman who's been a leader in this field for nearly thirty years...
I am certain that in a short span of time these shall prove to be prescient words, and most helpful to all who give them due consideration today.
Please read the following excerpt from today's Commentary & Review by Michael Kosares, the president of Centennial Precious Metals:
"We expect gold demand to increase steadily as investors move to insulate themselves against the developing problems with energy, the stock market and the banks. Please keep in mind our standard warning that to wait until the general public stampedes to the protection of gold is to run the risk that you will be shut out of the market.
There is no chance that the gold industry with its tiny infrastructure when compared with the equities' industry will be able to accomodate demand if a run to gold should commence. Please consider this carefully and act accordingly. Our best advice is to cover your needs now while things are still relatively calm."
Al Fulchino
(04/09/01; 15:06:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 51633)
Dear Orville
Orville Goldenbacher (04/09/01; 12:14:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 51626)
Al Fulchino #51611
Keep in mind, this all could have been averted with a simple apology, a little diplomacy. No, but that would have been too simple. GWB has all the tact of an Orcish Grunt.
me:
Dear Sir,
International waters have been agreed upon. In fact, Red China was a recent party to such an agreement if my facts are correct (newscast of last week). Anyways, we fly up their coastlines for a reason. They and others do the same up and down ours. It is sort of like a private behind the scenes discussion amongst enemies. We each tolerate it.
Second and more importantly, assume for a moment that we should believe thatwe were in international waters/boundaries. I know many Americans do not believe there is anything good or honest about us but this country is NOT the focus of eveil in the world. We do do some things right, some things moral and some of these things we do very well. So assume my friend that we were in international waters, assume it is correct that the Red Chinese pilot DID initiate contact through purpose or recklessness. What in damnation should we apologize for.
All Red Chinese apologists please step forward and ask the Red Chinese if they gave Bill C a little money for some technology! Ask about population control policies! Ask about free speech! And then!!!!!! Ask for an apology ..after you do this, tell me what they told you.
Everyone read a little thing called the book on Russian Psychopolotics, either email me or if I get even one request for it I will post the link.
Tree in the Forest
(04/09/01; 14:33:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 51632)
Propaganda
When I was in 7th grade (50's), I had a very good science teacher. I believe his name was Mr. Saunders. He set aside some time to discuss propaganda. Learning to recognize propaganda and differentiating it from truth is part of science but is also a valuable lesson in life. He not only taught us about government propaganda but also media propaganda and advertising propaganda. Today he would probably be considered politically incorrect because his teachings liberate the mind from the bullsh*t of government, media, special interest groups etc. I doubt they teach anything like this today. Mind you, topics covered were pretty much apolitical. This was not indoctrination; it was to free you from indoctrination. This re-post of a re-post from our own Journeyman and Pandagold is worth thinking about.
Journeyman (3/6/2001; 8:03:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 49460)
That "barbarous relic" and other victims @Pandagold, ALL
Pandagold (03/04/01; msg#: 49360): "Up until the first world war there was no history of hate between Germany and England. We are both from the same stock, and if we were involved in any battles it was both on the same side. Then suddenly, almost overnight we were taught to hate. But, as that first Christmas of 1914 showed, even though war had been declared, the hate was not there in the common man. Who will we be told to hate the next time? It shows how media ... is used to manipulate our thinking and our actions.
Control a people's thinking, and you control the people."
J-MAN: Indeed. "They" are so confident, they even have a key part of the process nailed and named - - and sometimes they even fess-up to the whole thing:
"Well Jim, it is very important in a democracy that you have the support of the people. One of the reasons why George Bush [Sr.] had to demonize Saddam Hussein was to get the support of the people, and Bill Clinton has done the same thing, Vice President Gore has done the same thing with respect to Milosevic." -Raymond Tanter, Fmr. Natl. Security Council Staffer,
WATCH IT!, MSNBC,
2 Apr. 1999, ~11:56:45 AM EST
"Demonization" is clearly a part of all "their" modern war-
mongering - - - and "they" use it elsewhere too:
_Gerry Spence_: "It was called the demonization of the defandant.... Look what they did at Waco. They turned everybody against those people at Waco. They said that they were sex fiends, and that they were child molesters, and by the time it was all over, the next morning after that fire there was a poll, and I think it was by USA TODAY, that showed that 87% of America was in favor of what the FBI did. Now here's what they did, they burned ...twenty-two, twenty-five little kids, little babies on a, as if they were on a spit, they burned those little children to death. And the American public said "That's all right," and you know
why? Because [they] had been demonized, those people had been demonized. ... they do this by pre-trial publicity. They did this to Randy Weaver." -CNN Burden Of Proof, Oct 14, 1996, 12:45 PM{TC00G 08:05}
They did it to gold too - - - that "barbarous relic," remember?
Regards,
Journeyman
Belgian
(04/09/01; 14:24:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 51631)
Gold trading activities of the ESF....
YIHAAA, again a shool-example of how it works.
Today, the Gold-ticker, made a nice smooth, natural follow up on the Asian morning-run up. Volume in unhedged miners was suspectly weak, during price-appreciation. And as usual I could set the clock on the exact moment of Knock-knockie of Big Brother ESF : 261,45 tick, tack, too >>>258,45 !
Nothing new fellow Knights ! Plenty of knock-knock statistics available.
The only reason for mentionning is : if one should chart these nice and smooth, natural up-ticking of POG during these 14 ours of Asian + European gold-appreciation...it is hard to believe that in one strike, that perfect pattern, has any reason to be destroyed at a regular given exact moment in New York. These up-patterns are not eroded but simply axed ! It is a pity I can't plot such a series of intraday-evidences (24 hours) of global manipulative action
on a tick to tick chart.
First, I tought that the SM-futures-opening jumps were a reason why this was happening. But why isn't POG already eroded or axed in Europ time then ?
Is 260$ a new Derivative pain-point ? Is there fear that a break through on 260$, will signal and anticipate ALARM ?
Are there any short-specialists on this forum who can explain us the art of shorting tactics (wars) ?
megatron
(04/09/01; 13:13:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 51630)
jayzee
Your in pretty deep, buddy! Been there, can sympathize. Lots of companies have excellent prospective properties but can they hang on? I, sadly, doubt it very much. Most of these are going to be picked off for pennies on the dollar.
Remember Greenstone?
Lafisrap
(04/09/01; 13:00:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 51629)
corrected link
http://www.foxmarketwire.com/wires/0409/f_ap_0409_32.sml
The previous link was missing its "h" in the "http" part.
Lafisrap
(04/09/01; 12:58:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 51628)
Interest rates set by the Fed
ttp://www.foxmarketwire.com/wires/0409/f_ap_0409_32.sml
Remember the recent information posted here that described Fed interest rates as following the rates of the three-month Treasury securities? Well, if that is the case, then it is likely that the Fed will soon cut interest rates in accordance with three-month Treasury securities. Let's watch and see if the relationship holds.
excerpt from the link ***
The Treasury Department sold $9 billion in three-month bills at a discount rate of 3.820 percent, down from 4.125 percent last week. An additional $8 billion was sold in six-month bills at a rate of 3.815 percent, down from 4.020 percent.
***
Lafisrap
(04/09/01; 12:35:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 51627)
Lease Rates, Randy msg# 51619)
http://www.kitco.com/market/LFrate.html
***
Ms. Baker writes...
- - - - -
The fact that lease rates continued to climb even as short positions are being reduced suggests that the supply of gold being lent to the market is, in fact, tightening.
***
But gold lease rates as shown in the chart at the above link are presently declining. It seems lease rates were previously increasing, yes, but with little or no affect on the POG, which is currently at about $258.
Randy, why don't those who have obligations to deliver gold in the future (gold mines?) simply buy paper gold at these very low prices, and then deliver the cheap paper gold to satisfy their obligations? Is this not a solution for gold mines who are obligated to deliver gold in the future and for whom the cost of production is higher than the current POG? Or, is the paper gold not an acceptable form of gold for satisfying their obligations?
Is it possible that those with obligations to deliver gold in the furute are betting that the POG will decline further? That is an explanation that makes sense, no?
Thanks,
Lafisrap
Orville Goldenbacher
(04/09/01; 12:14:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 51626)
Al Fulchino #51611
Keep in mind, this all could have been averted with a simple apology, a little diplomacy. No, but that would have been too simple. GWB has all the tact of an Orcish Grunt.
jayzee
(04/09/01; 12:03:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 51625)
TVX Gold squeeze play
Please indulge a TVX stockholder. I have heard that someone (bondholders?) is pulling a squeeze play on TVX to try to obtain the assets of the company for pennies on the dollar. A few months ago TVX had a REVERSE split where they gave 1 share for 5 shares to increase the share price to over $1 to remain listed. The last time I checked the price was 75 cents a share which means that you are buying the original shares at 15 cents. Check out TVX because they have some great assets, including the Greek mines that will be in production in a couple of years where the cost per ounce will be very low.
(1) I think that TVX is a great bargin.
(2) Please consider helping TVX shareholders (like me) so
that these manipulators will not succeed in shafting us.
They will fail if the price goes back over $1 and TVX
keeps its listing. So please buy if you can.
As always, do your own research.
Hill Billy Mitchell
(04/09/01; 11:14:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 51624)
justamereBear @ # 51621
Sir j'Bear
Good to see you out the closet. We must not let bumper stickers do our witnessing for us. I believe the Person you quoted also said, "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his father with the holy angels."
Please do not be offended by this post. I just cannot help myself, it lifts my spirit when I see some post the words of my lord and savior.
Very respectfully,
HBM
Al Fulchino
(04/09/01; 10:50:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 51623)
Le Sin/All TedW doesn't need my defense but...
LeSin (04/09/01; 08:00:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 51611)
@ tedw #51608
Sir, respectfully, please take it outside. Your simplistic attempt to rally support is weak and ill-informed at best.
me: Simplistic? When does push come to shove with your line or reasoning? Shall we wait until we are further tested? Shall we wait for further proof of their butchery? Shall we wait for our cozy lifestyle to be devoid of comfort before we awaken from our slumber? Watch as Putin attempts his co- opting of Europe to seperate them from the US. Watch as the Red Chinese poke us from our backside. Trade with them without consequence if you think you can. You may need your gold for more than wealth preservation.
end me
Oh, how quick we are to rally our young sons and send them to war all because of the BLUNDERS of Govt heads, Greed of Multi-national companies & bankers, together with irresponcable career military brass bafoons.
Me: I do not recall Ted ever saying its his wish to send our young people war. Further more he has not implied it. In reality his approach will save more in the long run.
end me
Trade and lots of It between nations, all nations - keeps them from war - boycotts & trade blocks are the corner stones & fundamental building blocks of wars.
Peace & Trade "S"
Me: yes trade and lots of it will help, but would you trade with a burglar who steals from your neighbors homes, kills off those that disagree with them just so you can get your message across to them? Yes you might and they will pretend to listen, at least to your face. I will not. Will you remember what Lenin said? Repeating as best I remember it. "You will sell us the rope which we will hang you by" and one last comment on trade. Try trading with Osama bin Laden. Oh and would you say for us all? Think about it. Here we go again ET! Good ideas, bad ideas, good people, bad people.
end me
To All: If anyone else here feels as LeSin does, I would recomend that you DO save up some gold. When the time comes and if it does that the Red Chinese threaten us or act on that threat, I will not be one to tell you I told you so. I would get no prideful enjoyment from that.
justamereBear
(04/09/01; 10:42:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 51622)
Randy LeSin InvisibleHand
Randy 51620 HEAR!!! HEAR!!!
BTW my last, 51621 was directed at invisible hand 51609 and leSin 51611. It certainly changes ones thinking if one "walks a mile in another mans shoes"
justamereBear
(04/09/01; 10:28:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 51621)
Invisible Hand
I have not quoted scripture for many years BUT, let he that is without sin cast the first stone.
j'Bear
Randy (@ The Tower)
(04/09/01; 10:12:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 51620)
"A Perspective on Gold Valuation" by James Turk
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/TurkGoldValue.html
Mr. Turk writes...
-+-+-+-+-
These Gold loans are what has cheapened Gold. The central banks lend Gold to the mining companies (via the middleman bullion banks), so the mining companies have cheapened their own product. By hedging they have in effect increased the quantity of metal through the extension of credit.
What? They've created Gold 'out of thin air'?
Well, yes, sort of. They really haven't created Gold; all they have done is created 'Gold substitutes'. These substitutes are extensions of credit in effect masquerading as Gold. And the central banks have pulled off this masquerade much longer than I thought them capable of doing, but for how much longer?
I don't have the answer to that question; no one does. But we all know the answer to how it will end? Badly. Just as all extensions of credit inevitably end. There will be widespread defaults.
As a consequence, many people who think they own Gold will find out that they in fact only owned a Gold substitute, and they will end up owning nothing if the Gold substitute they owned was defaulted upon.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(04/09/01; 10:08:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 51619)
More Gilded Opinion.... "Gold Showing Signs of Life" by Leanne M. Baker / SalomonSmithBarney
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/BakerSigns.html
Ms. Baker writes...
- - - - -
The fact that least rates continued to climb even as short positions are being reduced suggests that the supply of gold being lent to the market is, in fact, tightening.
Is there evidence that central banks are reducing the supply of gold available for lending in the market? The short answer is, yes.
Excerpts from a letter that the World Gold Council sent [late February] to its producer members have been circulating on a number of Internet sites. We confirmed that the letter was written, and that the excerpts are quoted accurately.
It appears that the Bank of England (an outright seller of gold through its semi-monthly gold auctions) has not been lending gold in recent days, a move that the WGC characterized as "unprecedented, as its short-term lending is considered a vital tool in the smooth running of the London market."
In the wake of the late-1999 unruly gold market, when both lease rates and gold prices spiked, some client central banks apparently injected necessary liquidity by lending gold for longer periods than normal -- a year or more, rather than three-month or six-month periods.
As the gold loans have matured this year, in an environment of depressed gold prices and sub-1% lease rates, some of these central banks chose not to renew the loans, thus drying up liquidity.
Mr Gresham
(04/09/01; 10:02:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 51618)
Stephen Roach: Pruning the White-Collar Bloat
http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/latest-digest.html#anchor0
A new (for me) perspective on the recession, looking at a major subcategory of US workers:
"In my opinion, the coming layoffs of white-collar workers are traceable to the same forces that have produced the dramatic downturn of the IT cycle -- a deep earnings recession for Corporate America. Courtesy of the great equity bubble of 1995-99 and the New-Economy hype it spawned, discipline on cost-control lapsed, and businesses engaged in open-ended technology acquisition and excessive hiring. IT spending surged by 13% a year over the 1995-99 interval and then exploded by 23% in 2000; at the same time, surging white-collar employment accounted for fully 75% of the 12.3 million new jobs that were created in the nonfarm US economy over the past six years. "
"In response, cost cutting is back -- and with a vengeance. IT was the first to go, and the white-collar worker will probably be next.
"As the IT cycle rolls over, the focus has been on the employment repercussions that such a development has in America's dot-com communities, from Silicon Valley to Massachusetts. This, in my opinion, is only the tip of what could turn out to be a large iceberg. The IT sector itself accounts for only about 3.5% of total private nonfarm employment in the United States --
"Most observers view such cost cutting in a classic cyclical context -- expecting it to run its course in a matter of months. That could turn out to be wishful thinking. I fear, instead, that there may be a deeper meaning to all this -- one that strikes at the heart of the New Economy. As I see it, over the course of 1999 and in the early months of 2000, something truly extraordinary happened to the psychological mindset underpinning the US economy. Courtesy of the Nasdaq bubble, businesses, consumers, and policy officials all became convinced that a seamless transition to an e-based world was at hand. In the words of Intel's Andy Grove, all companies needed to become e-companies. Corporate America was urged to embrace the here and now of a sparkling New Economy.
"That's exactly what happened, as the Old Economy began a wrenching reinvention around the Internet. However, this resulted in an extraordinary duplication of business platforms across the corporate spectrum -- from autos and chemicals to finance and book-selling. Dual platforms emerged to sell the same product or service -- both the old way and the new way.
"Borrowing a page from the script of the boom-bust cycles of yesteryear, businesses added a new layer of costs right at the very peak of this cycle.
"Which takes us to the macro impacts on the US economy. To the extent that cost cutting now takes an unusual toll on white-collar managers, the impact on consumption would be all the more severe. Hourly earnings of private industry white-collar workers were 47% higher than for blue-collar workers in 1998 (latest available statistics). And managers -- the largest occupational segment in the US work force -- are the highest paid of the lot; their mean hourly earnings were slightly more than 50% above the white-collar norm. Moreover, it seems reasonable to presume that mangers also own a disproportionate share of financial assets -- stocks and bonds, alike. All this points to an unmistakably tough macro conclusion: The likely pruning of white-collar bloat goes right to the heart of the growth and investing dynamic of the US economy. It takes dead aim at the high-powered American consumer. And without the consumer, the last line of defense against recession will most assuredly be breached.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(04/09/01; 10:02:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 51617)
At The Gilded Opinion.... "A New Paradigm For The Old Economy" by John Hathaway
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/Tocqueville.html
What you will find...
-------
"Investment and commercial banks have come to resemble closed end hedge funds. ... In the world of derivatives, there is little accountability. The potential for pouring fresh money into a bad bet is almost unlimited.
+
... The lesson in natural gas is that outcomes in physical markets cannot be manipulated according to the views of traders and bankers whose principal realities are mathematical models and trading screens. ... The explosion in natural gas prices is a precursor for physical resources in general, including gold."
Randy (@ The Tower)
(04/09/01; 09:59:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 51616)
At The Gilded Opinion.... "The Case for Gold" by Doug Casey
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/Caseygold.html
What you will find...
-------
In May 1996, Casey advised getting out of natural resources, particularly mining stocks and precious metals. He saved his readers a lot of grief as the whole mining/precious metals market tumbled disastrously, but now...."It's time to buy both gold and silver bullion (or coins) in size, and with abandon."
Mr. Casey continues:
"Estimates are that world demand for gold is 50 percent higher than annual production of 3,000 tonnes, and that's been the case for years. The deficit has been funded by gold loans from central banks, abetted by forward sales of some mining companies. ... It's been an excellent game to play for almost 20 years. But when the market turns, many players are going to get caught short. ...and the higher the price goes, the more frantic will be the drive to cover it. It's entirely likely you'll see bankruptcies on the part of both lenders and borrowers in the next few years.
+
The decision of European central banks to stop lending as well as selling gold will alone put a lot of pressure on the shorts. I don't know the timing of the next move in gold; but you should use times like these to sit on the bid and build a position. I've been saying that for the last year. This is likely to be the strongest gold market in history, driven by both fear and greed."
Rockgrabber
(04/09/01; 09:59:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 51615)
Seeker of the Grail
that is the most kind words I have heard.
MAY you Chalice overflow as well! That gives me a notion.
Mr Gresham
(04/09/01; 09:35:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 51614)
All's Quiet
at USAGold forum. (Except for the OT stuff ;) No Trail Guide for, how long is it now? Oro is off, finally getting his chapters put together...
Calm before the ? -- our best contrary indicators?: Something's about to pop.
(BTW, I've caught myself twice starting to think in "Belgian". Great language! But of course, Al Gore invented it, and GWB learned it in high school.)
CoBra(too)
(04/09/01; 08:38:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 51613)
ECB -Rate Cut?
Hello Buena Fe as it seems the banking community over in Euroland thinks otherwise as some banks already have cut rates by 25 - 50 bp's, while others are waiting for the official announcement expected Wednesday. Call it blind faith if you will, still you're right calling it crap that rate reduction will help the ailing zEuro.
best cb2
Buena Fe
(04/09/01; 08:08:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 51612)
War
Back in October the US financial press (with a few European stooges in tow) was emphatic that the ECB needed to raise their rates to support the Euro...........now they're emphatic that the ECB must lower rates to spur growth...AND THIS WILL BE BULLISH FOR EURO. The truth is....the US needs to lower rates...but it can't if the ECB doesn't play along because the $ stands a good chance of getting toasted!
Just like China won't bend on spy plane issues...I bet ECB won't lower rates on Wednesday! Bye Bye SM & US$...Hellooo Gold!
Keep Well
LeSin
(04/09/01; 08:00:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 51611)
@ tedw #51608
Sir, respectfully, please take it outside. Your simplistic attempt to rally support is weak and ill-informed at best.
Oh, how quick we are to rally our young sons and send them to war all because of the BLUNDERS of Govt heads, Greed of Multi-national companies & bankers, together with irresponcable career military brass bafoons.
Trade and lots of It between nations, all nations - keeps them from war - boycotts & trade blocks are the corner stones & fundamental building blocks of wars.
Peace & Trade "S"
Max Rabbitz
(04/09/01; 07:55:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 51610)
Boycott Chinese Goods
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/4/163352.shtml
It is the Chinese military that is being very arrogant and aggressive. Now that the Chinese communists no longer have an ideology people believe in there is no reason for them to remain in charge. The military wants power. They are upset that their private businessare being taken away. We could have a military coop and dictatorship leading to the "Superior Chinese" trying to dominate Asia. The Sudetenland is first, opps, I mean Taiwan, then Korea, then Japan. I think the Chinese people will easily submit to authority, especially if nationalistic. A large-scale boycott of Chinese goods should increase inflation and increase the price of gold. However, this is not the reason to boycott. The Chinese military must be seen in China as reckless and dangerous to the economy, or they will soon have the upper hand. You can help China and western democracies by boycotting Chinese goods.
The Invisible Hand
(04/09/01; 07:35:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 51609)
THE CHINESE LEADER ARE ARROGANT,EVIL, AND AGGRESSORS.
What are the Americans doing in China?
Who's the aggressor?
tedw
(04/09/01; 06:35:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 51608)
Day 9
http://www.usagold.com
DAY 9
BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS AND THE BUTCHERS OF BEIJENG.
WORLDNETDAILY REPORTS THAT AN AMERICAN SERIVCEMAN WAS THROWN TO THE GROUND BY A CHINESE OFFICER AND THE PLANE FORCIBLY ENTERED WHEN IT LANDED ON CHINESE TERRITORY.
THE CHINESE LEADER ARE ARROGANT,EVIL, AND AGGRESSORS.
STOP BUYING CHINESE GOODS. YOU ARE BUYING THE ROPE WHICH WILL BE USED TO HANG YOU.
Seeker of the Grail
(04/09/01; 03:50:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 51607)
Good Morning
Sirs,
Looks like spot has run the gauntlet quite nicley so far.
Is everyboby predicting a tobbogan slide today or do you think the PPT will ban tobogganing?
Prunes are supposed to be good for cleansing the system are they not? Maybe we should send a case to the PPT!
AS far as light bulbs go...maybe the question should be how many legislators needed to light a candle?
May your chalice overflow,
SOTG
Turnaround
(04/09/01; 03:48:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 51606)
sniff
SHIFTY (04/09/01; 00:28:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 51605)
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 2:00AM 12841.76 -542.00 -4.05%
Smells like something's burning, paper maybe?
SHIFTY
(04/09/01; 00:28:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 51605)
Japan
DOWN -542.00 -4.05%
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 2:00AM 12841.76 -542.00 -4.05%
SHIFTY
(04/09/01; 00:07:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 51604)
Golden Star Resources
http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B285256A25005ECE42?OpenDocument
Golden Star ups stake in Bogoso, still chasing Prestea
By: Tim Wood
Posted: 04/05/2001 01:00:00 PM | © Miningweb 1997-2001
NEW YORK -- Toronto listed Golden Star Resources (T:GSC | OTCBB:GSRSF) has bought out Australian junior Anvil Mining's shares in Bogoso Gold Limited (ASX:AVL | BER:903718) in a share swap arrangement. The company also confirmed to Miningweb that negotiations to acquire Prestea have restarted.
Anvil's 20% of Bogoso as well as a 22.2% shareholder loan interest revert to Golden Star after the exchange of 3 million shares worth $0.4 each ($1.2 million). Once regulatory approval has been granted, Golden Star will control 90% of Bogoso with the Ghanaian government retaining its obligatory 10%. There are no restrictions on Anvil's newly acquired shares besides ordinary US holding rules.
Golden Star was recently delisted from the American Stock Exchange because it had more than five years of losses and total shareholders' equity of less than $4 million under U.S. GAAP. The firm's US listing was transferred to the over-the-counter market which CEO and president Peter Bradford says has negatively affected liquidity since most of its shareholders are American. While the bulk of GSR's trade is now conducted in Toronto, Bradford says it is reverting back to the US as investors become aware of the OTC listing.
The Anvil arrangement is part of a plan to give Bogoso better access to capital as it undergoes a larger consolidation plan. Last year GSR had agreed to acquire Prestea, located south of Bogoso, from South Africa's Barnex until the government threatened to abrogate the latter's rights. The intention is to extend Bogoso's life by adding Prestea's reserves to its modern processing circuit.
Without Prestea, mining at Bogoso will be discontinued in the third quarter and stockpile processing will take the mine to closure at the end of this year.
Since the change of government in Ghana to a more mining friendly regime, GSR has been able to restart negotiations over Prestea and the increased stake in Bogoso indicates some expectation of a positive outcome. The local miners' union is also less intransigent without government support which should aid the process.
No time frame has been set to complete negotiations.
Bradford says the Bogoso sulfide project is still an option, but not at current price levels. "There's a large difference between feasible and financially feasible." The project is expected to need around $20 million to get off the ground and at prices closer to $300 an ounce.
Despite the capital drought affecting gold juniors, the company remains confident that it has a story of quality and credibility to keep investors happy.
Getting out of Bogoso leaves Anvil free to develop its copper-silver Dikulushi project in the Democratic Republic of Congo. That it took shares from GSR does offer some confidence that Bogoso may yet pull the rabbit from the hat.
ViewYesterday's Discussion.
Permission to reprint is hereby granted where the USAGOLD name is cited along with our web address, mailing address and phone number. For electronic reproductions, citing the post heading and the http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/ website address as the source is sufficient.
|
Centennial Precious Metals Gold coins & bullion since 1973 Denver, Colorado 80246-0009 We educate first-time investors! |
for quotes and purchase information.
|
