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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/9/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Black Blade (08/09/00; 23:05:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 34728)
Buffoonery at its finest!
CNBC's resident buffoon, Ron Insana today said that a secret source claimed that the increased output Saudi oil would appear on the market in the next few weeks. He suggested that oil prices would be dropping. Strange, since the 20 day trading cycle of Brent North Sea Oil priced at over $28.00/bbl has failed to materialize, does this mean that he Saudis are liars? It is difficult to believe much of anything touted by the talking heads in the financial media as they parrot the "company line". Any additional petroleum that enters into the market must first find a home. The refiners don't want it. Their tank farms are nearly empty and inventories are at 24-year lows. This we have discussed over the last few weeks, and so it is no surprise here. The API inventory numbers also confirm that driver behavior has not really changed and as prices of gasoline rise, drivers have not cut back their driving behavior. So what will the Saudis do with all this extra oil? If the refiners continue to operate on the "just-in-time" inventory model, avoiding inventory taxes and possible losses if the price should fall, where will all this oil end up? Curiously, as Ron Insana was waxing philosophical, the price of oil rose to $30.35/bbl, oil services and energy stocks reached all-time highs.

SHIFTY (08/09/00; 23:03:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 34727)
Marius
Its sad. That story should be on every news report! The silence is defining. Where are the Republicans? Are they all so corrupt that nothing can be done! Where are the journalists? Is there wide spread blackmail? At this point in time nothing would surprise me.

ORO (08/09/00; 23:01:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 34726)
Rothbard - Man Economy and State
http://www.mises.org/
Also

http://www.mises.org/product.asp?sku=B164

I have been reading in Rothbard's tome and in a couple of his other works. The read is difficult because of the great clarity of his writing.

The problem for me is in the shock I feel after reading each of his basic propositions. The clarity of writing makes it inescapable to think of the consequences of his statements for today's economic structures and practices. The other part of it is the irrefutable nature of the basic arguments. Things are set clearly and that is indeed a shock for anyone used to reading economics, even Austrian economists.

Ouch

Any and all Rothbard is hereby highly recommended reading.




Black Blade (08/09/00; 22:50:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 34725)
TOCOM Palladium Ends Up on Dearth of Russian Metal
http://www.russiatoday.com/investorinsight/business.php3?id=187427
DITTO!

Black Blade (08/09/00; 22:45:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 34724)
commodities prices rising, but no inflation? Damn hedonic statistics!
Source: BridgeNews
Force majeure declared on Falconbridge Sudbury copper output London--Aug. 9--Canadian nickel and copper miner Falconbridge has declared force majeure on copper shipments out of its Sudbury, Ontario operations due to ongoing strike action by workers at the facility. Falconbridge informed its customers Wednesday morning that its copper deliveries will be 40% down on contractual deliveries for the month of August, with details for copper deliveries in September due to be released "nearer the time," a Falconbridge spokeswoman said. (Story .13876)

Falconbridge says still "several weeks" of Sudbury nickel stocks London--Aug 9--Canadian miner Falconbridge said Wednesday that it still has "several weeks worth" of nickel stocks at its Sudbury, Ontario operations, and any potential contractual delivery problems were still a long way off, a company spokeswoman told BridgeNews. The announcement comes in the wake of this morning's force majeure declaration on copper shipments at the nickel and copper facility. The group produced 41,000-tonnes of copper-in-concentrate in 1999. (Story .17856)


These 2 press releases came out today. So, what's wrong with this picture? Copper prices are rising again, and of course, declaring force majeure would be nice if you have a large supply on hand. Renegotiate terms, and sell the supply at the higher price. At the same time, the Cu price continues to rise. Interesting idea.


Marius (08/09/00; 22:01:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 34723)
Shifty re: Traficant v. Reno
Shifty,

I don't know it any of it's true, or if anything will come of it, but the Traficant rant was by far the best entertainment I've seen today. Thanks for posting it.

Hmmm. Let's see...Ventura's a Gov, The Rock appears at the Republican Convention. I'VE GOT IT!! Reno vs. Traficant in a steel cage match. Loser gets indicted. My money's on the scrappy lesbian. Lord it's fun when Dems smell chum and begin eating each other!

M

Scrappy (08/09/00; 21:30:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 34722)
One last thing. SOrry,
I know you came here to learn about gold, and here I am throwing the whole world of international economics at you.
I do this, because in order to understand gold, the role it plays in the world now, and the role it MAY play in the future, I really feel you need to look at the 'big picrture', the whole thing. Gold is important in it all.
Call it wholistic economics. :}

P.s. I myself hold gold for insurance, a feeling of independence from the 'machine', (Kidding myself, of course, but it's a bit of the rebel in me), and security. It may or may not feed my family, it may or may not make me richer than many at a point when most are broken. I can't read the future. But it seems like a fairly intelligent thing to do. I like to eat, I am dependent on the systems' system, and the system is getting weaker every day. Gold is 'just in case', for me. Others are hoping for the Big Rally, when gold 'goes to the moon'. I feel, if gold goes to the moon, it will be because the fiat world is burning, and I am not so sure that will be a good thing for its' dependents at all.
I'm rambling. Sorry guys. I'm outta here again.
Love, Scrappy.

Scrappy (08/09/00; 21:19:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 34721)
Bambie
I meant the 'Gold Trail' link above. Much of what FOA has said here, is archived there. Reading the words of FOA and ANOTHER, whether they are right about how things will unfold or not, I gaurentee you, you will get a great education, and a pretty clear view of the "Big picture" of the world in international economics.

All, Hello! Yes, I'm still here, lurking and learning.
Hope the rest of you enjoy the letter as well.

Hi, Leigh!

Scrappy (08/09/00; 21:13:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 34720)
Hi, Bambie.
This might help you understand a few basics. Came to me in my e-mail today.
Le Metropole Members,

The following article appears in today's money
commentary in www.salon.com

Fool's gold

How I bought into a sucker's scheme.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Barrie Walsh

Aug. 9, 2000 | I blame some of it on myself. But I
blame the rest of it on the government. Inflation
has arrived, but no one will admit it.

Even as we continue to read data that indicates the
economy is slowing, the I-word goes officially
unuttered, and the Fed withholds its option to raise
interest rates. Commander Alan Greenspan placates a f
razzled Wall Street with a reassuring message that
new hikes do not appear necessary.

This is why I continue to lose money.

Historically, gold is a great bet against inflation.
Last February, when inflation seemed imminent, Placer
Dome, the world's fifth-largest gold producer, joined
others in the industry with an announcement that
seemed to open up a primo investment opportunity.

For years, gold companies sold their product at a
price higher than the market. This practice, called
hedging, becomes profitable when gold prices fall.
But if gold prices rise, the companies get stuck
with the lower price.

Placer Dome, in Vancouver, B.C., said there would
be no more hedging. And gold rallied nicely. I jumped
in and purchased a chunk of Placer Dome shares.
Unfortunately, the rally fizzled within days. My
decision turned out to be a big mistake.

So what went wrong?

The Gold Anti-Trust Action (GATA), a lobbying group
in Dallas, believes the gold market is being
manipulated. I do, too.

When I first started looking into the matter in
February, I wasn't convinced; today, something
suspicious indeed seems to be going on. GATA chairman
Bill Murphy, who's worked in the gold industry for
30 years, says the U.S. government is conspiring
with the Exchange Stabilization Fund and some bullion
banks to hold down the price of gold for political
and financial gain. (The ESF, under the jurisdiction
of the secretary of Treasury, was formed in 1934
to provide exchange rate stability in the foreign
exchange market.)

Murphy's evidence: record gold demand and rising
inflation.

Annual gold demand and prices have been rising but
the government's Producer Price Index (PPI) and
Consumer Price Index (CPI) haven't shown much
upward movement. Some in the media, including New
York Post business writer John Crudele, have
questioned the government's official inflation
reports. Even Greenspan sometimes relies on private
data to access the state of the economy. Murphy
attributes the refusal to acknowledge inflation
to the coming election -- a time when no one wants
to put a damper on the good times.

But look at oil prices and it's clear there's reason
to be concerned. Last year, crude oil traded at
between $14 and $15 per barrel; it's currently trading
at $30 per barrel -- a 13-year high. Inflationary
pressures from high oil prices are significant, though
often dismissed by Wall Street as not being part
of the "core" inflation rate. Yet, world finance
ministers at a July meeting in Japan said high oil
prices could hinder global economic growth.

Commodity prices and wages are rising. With demand
so much greater than supply, the price of gold
should be rising.

So how is this alleged manipulation being carried out?
GATA describes the process like this: The world's
central banks have large reserves of gold, which are
loaned to bullion banks, and which, in turn, are
sold to jewelry makers and others. Central banks
charge a low interest rate -- say 1 percent on the
borrowed gold.

When bullion banks sell gold short, they have an
obligation to replace the borrowed gold. (Selling
an investment that you don't own is referred to as
selling short.) If the price goes down, the gold
can be purchased at a lower price and returned to
the central bank at a profit. If the price goes up,
the bullion banks lose money because they have to
pay a higher price to replace the gold.

Meanwhile, Murphy says, bullion banks invest proceeds
from the gold sales at a much higher rate than the
1 percent they are charged to borrow the gold.

Gold analyst Frank Veneroso claims world gold loans
to bullion banks at present are as high as 12,000
tonnes (a ton equalling 1,000 kg). Not every analyst
agrees with his figure, but there is growing concern
about the large amount of outstanding gold loans.

GATA says a financial crisis could occur if investors
start buying lots of gold. Heavy buying would spike
the price of gold and bullion banks would be forced
to quickly buy back the gold they have borrowed ...
at a much higher price. Murphy believes that under
those conditions, the selling pressure would not
be strong enough to offset the frenzied buying.
The bullion banks would lose a lot of money.

Gold now sells at about $281 an ounce. Veneroso
believes the price would be closer to $600 if the
manipulation of the gold market stops. GATA has met
with Speaker of the House Denny Hastert, R-Ill., and
handed out a 100-page document called "Gold Derivative
Banking Crisis," detailing the alleged manipulation
to the Senate Banking Committee. Since then, the
Senate subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and
Government Information has requested copies of the
document, and GATA has asked for a full investigation.

In September 1999, the European Central Bank signed
the "Washington Agreement," which limits gold sales
for five years by 15 central banks to 400 tonnes per
year. This signaled a lower available gold supply.
Heavy selling ensued and another rally fizzled.

If this story is true, then I have bought into a
rigged market -- a sucker's rally. I am hardly alone
in my frustration. What am I going to do with my
Placer Dome shares? For now, I'll hold on. I think
inflation is very much alive, if not accurately
reported. The stock market's volatility is a big
concern; I am worried about the U.S dollar bubble.
If things go sour, gold could go to $600. It all
comes down to patience.

For now, I'll keep polishing.


www.salon.com | Aug. 9, 2000

- - - - - - - - - - - -

About the writer


Please be aware that there is a lot more to what is 'going on' in the financial world than the manipulation of gold. The impending death of the dollar, for instance, extremely important because it the WORLDs' reserve currency right now.
The dollar, at one time, represented a certain amount of gold. It doesn't any more, and hasn't for many years. The dollar is now just paper, and if it represents anything, it is debt.
Gold is solid, unchanging substance, with value always. The dollar is what is called 'fiat' currency, created by banks so they can have better control of the worlds' wealth.
Also, be aware that our own Federal Reserve bank is a PRIVATE CORPORATION, NOT a government entity. The U.S. Federal reserve controls monetary policy in the U.S.
Because the dollar is used internationally, whatever happens to our dollar, our stock market, etc., WILL affect the ecnoomics of the world. Things to think about.

I am just a beginner myself, but the above letter explains the 'gold manipulation' aspect pretty simply, and should get you started. May I also suggest you go to the Trail Guide link above, and begin reading. There is plenty there to confuse and enlighten you. Read, read again, read some more. Things will begin to sink in.


beesting (08/09/00; 20:10:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 34719)
Newmont(NEM)Quarterly report! Somebody buying Gold at $454 per ounce?
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/000809/nem.html
Newmont reported a net loss of $.10 per share for the first half of 2000.

<<Newmont generally sells its production at market prices, but has forward sales contracts for 62,500
ounces for the remainder of 2000 from its Minahasa mine in Indonesia at an average price of $454
per ounce>>

Full report at above URL.....beesting.

SHIFTY (08/09/00; 19:29:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 34718)
White Hills / Rep Traficant
http://talk.broadcastamerica.com/stations/moreinfo/bio.phtml/Stations/The%2520Roger%2520Fredinburg%2520Show/bio?call=ts01023
If you go to this link and click archives it will play last nights Roger Fredinburg show. Its one of the first thing he talks about!
Roger has a good radio show each night. The other day he said something about the next President having to deal with a bank crisis ! I guess he read the GATA stuff I sent him!


PS His main web page address is:
http://www.regularguy.com/

$hifty

auspec (08/09/00; 19:04:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 34717)
A Full Grown Buck In Due Time
Welcome bambie-You have probably just begun one of your life's most intriguing journeys. P.O.G is the price of gold currently and it is a contrarian's dream today. F.O.A. is an elusive wise man that has been missing since June 14th, but will probably be back on site soon. You will have a very difficult time understanding him initially, but be patient as he has many lifetime's of knowledge. The XAU is no longer relevant because it has been tampered with by God knows who. It used to be the Phila. gold and silver index, like the Dow is to stocks. It may no longer correspond to the price of gold and silver because of some of the dubious companies now listed in this index. Hedging is selling gold on the cheap today instead of holding it in anticipation of future higher gains. It is recently been overused and has been a detriment to P.O.G. The journey you have possibly started entails international financial intrigue and understanding, motives of world govt's, and maybe even the making of a life's fortune. I believe your timing could not be much better! Godspeed

CoBra(too) (8/9/2000; 17:17:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 34716)
@ Strad - Ich liebe Brahms ...
and my (old) lady adores Brahms - hoping to be able to catch it over here on the old continent - otherwise you've just got to provide (records?) - or is it I-T-(ins) - regards cb2

Strad Master (8/9/2000; 16:24:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 34715)
Dropping POG and a Concert
http://www.KKGOFM.com/playlist&kmozart%20live.htm
As usual, it's been a long time between postings for me. This time it was because I was off doing my annual stint teaching Chamber Music at the Idyllwild Arts Academy. Good music! Good concerts! Good students! BUT, in the meantime, the POG has again dipped dangerously low. Gee whizikers, when will it finally get going???? Is it possible that Robert Prechter is right and that gold will ultimately drop to the low $180's? Seems to me that with the price of oil remaining at relatively high levels inflation numbers ought to be coming in higher. But then we've probably never had an administration so adept at cooking books as this one...

While we wait for something positive to happen to the POG, I thought I'd give fair advance warning to all my buddies here at the Round Table about an upcoming concert. It will be performed and broadcast live on KMZT (105.1 FM for those in the LA area) at 6 PM Pacific Time, Sunday September 3. (The Sunday around Labor Day). It can also be heard over the Internet by going to:
http://www.KKGOFM.com/playlist&kmozart%20live.htm

My Trio (The Pacific Trio) will play the 2nd Piano Trio by Joaquin Turina (a beautiful piece!) and then our cellist will be replaced by a great French Horn player for the Brahms Horn Trio (a magnificent piece!). Please put it on your calendars and listen in. Be sure to account for any time differences between your local and US Pacific Time. With MK's indulgence, I plan to post notice of it and the URL a few more times as the concert approaches - just as a reminder. (Mike - let me know if that's not OK) I promise to try to write something about gold at the same time. Anyway, hope you can all listen in. I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Glad to be back. Best wishes to you all.

CoBra(too) (8/9/2000; 16:19:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 34714)
PS ...@ bambie - forgot about XAU
An abomination - used to be the Philadelphia gold and silver
Index - now defunct - more at another time - stick around -cb2

CoBra(too) (8/9/2000; 16:14:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 34713)
Wellcome -bambie -
I swore not to post again tonight - though please suit yourself - I'm the odd European meandering around on the best of all gold forums - please start with usagold home page - it'll give you all the answers you'll need to be able
to "read" these people.
Well, POG = Price of Gold
FOA = Friend of "Another" - hallowed at this site
for his thoughts!
Hedged or unhedged - the Hamlet question - please ask again
after reading more, where? Here!
Wellcome again, young one - best cb2

White Hills (8/9/2000; 16:03:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 34712)
SHIFTY Msg # 34676
Have watched the News stations and looked in the local newspaper and could not find any mention of the charges brought by Rep Traficant concerning J. Reno. Whats Up ? This should be a big story. Let me know if there has been any further developments. White Hills

bambie (8/9/2000; 15:59:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 34711)
Educate me, please.
Please have patience with me. I am young (not afraid to admit it) and don't know much about gold and the gold market. I guess I know more than most people my age but I'm trying to educate myself so if everyone would be patient and help educate a "youngin" in the was of gold, the gold market and the gold standard (which I realize we are no longer on) I would really appreciate it. What are the P.O.G and F.O.A? What is the "XAU"? What does it mean to for a gold mine to be "hedged" or "unhedged"?

Hill Billy Mitchell (08/09/00; 15:39:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 34710)
Official release (Correction)
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: August 9, 2000

Rates for Tuesday, August 8, 2000

Federal funds 6.44

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.26
10-year 5.93
20-year 6.06
30-year 5.73 (Corrected from 5.76)

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (0.71%)




Hill Billy Mitchell (08/09/00; 15:19:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 34709)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: August 9, 2000

Rates for Tuesday, August 8, 2000

Federal funds 6.44

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.26
10-year 5.93
20-year 6.06
30-year 5.76

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (0.68%)


Hill Billy Mitchell (08/09/00; 15:15:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 34708)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: August 8, 2000

Rates for Monday, August 7, 2000

Federal funds 6.46

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.28
10-year 5.97
20-year 6.06
30-year 5.76

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (0.70%)


Hill Billy Mitchell (08/09/00; 15:10:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 34707)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: August 7, 2000

Rates for Friday, August 4, 2000

Federal funds 6.44

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.23
10-year 5.91
20-year 6.03
30-year 5.72

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (0.72%)


Beowulf (08/09/00; 14:55:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 34706)
For SteveH - I thought you'd like this
http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/ark/blynra09.html
Here's one for the protecting yourself and your gold scrap book.

NRA's LaPierre comes out firing at convention

MICHAEL ROWETT
ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

HOT SPRINGS -- A National Rifle Association leader who took aim Tuesday at President Clinton, Vice President Gore and media whipped the crowd of nearly 2,000 gun-rights supporters into a frenzy of applause by asserting that all three promote unconstitutional efforts to regulate firearms. NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre of Fairfax, Va., headlined the Second Amendment rally at the Hot Springs Convention Center sponsored by the Dixie Sport Shooting Association of Hot Springs. LaPierre warned the crowd of supporters of gun owners' rights that gun licensing and registration proposals promoted by Clinton and Gore are just the first steps in a scheme to confiscate all guns.
"The next step is a knock on your door to confiscate your firearm, and we are not going to let that happen," LaPierre said to thunderous applause. "This administration doesn't enforce existing gun laws. Every time a horrible crime occurs, they run in front of the cameras and propose 20 new [gun] laws, and then when the cameras go away, they go back to not enforcing the law."
LaPierre in March claimed that Clinton's refusal to enforce existing gun laws shows that the president "is willing to accept a certain amount of killing to further his political agenda," including Gore's election as president. LaPierre stood by those remarks Tuesday, insisting that the "Clinton-Gore administration" has "deliberately, intentionally and inexcusably" blocked federal prosecution of crimes committed with guns.
LaPierre contended that news coverage is biased against the NRA. He argued that the press never mentions the NRA's gun-safety programs for children while "overzealously" covering school shootings like those at Westside Middle School near Jonesboro in 1998 and at Columbine High School in Colorado last year.
Gov. Mike Huckabee seconded LaPierre's criticisms of news coverage. Huckabee welcomed LaPierre to Arkansas with an Arkansas Traveler certificate and a prototype of the customized 12-gauge shotgun shells Remington Arms Co.'s Lonoke plant is making for the governor. The shell didn't contain ammunition but bore the same inscription as the live shells: "Mike Huckabee, a governor who supports the 2nd Amendment."
"The Constitution was never written to restrict citizens; it was written to restrict government," Huckabee said, eliciting another standing ovation. The governor argued that while news groups strongly support the First Amendment -- which guarantees freedom of the press, among other things -- they aren't so supportive of the Second Amendment.
The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Huckabee argued that the concealed-weapon law passed by the Legislature in 1995-- during the tenure of his predecessor, Democratic Gov. Jim Guy Tucker -- has resulted in a drop in gun violence in Arkansas. After adoption of the law, murders committed with firearms dropped by 21.5 percent in 1996 and by 42 percent over the next three years, Huckabee said.
Huckabee tempered his barbs with humor, joking that one of the prizes up for auction after the rally was "mud wrestling between Rosie O'Donnell and Janet Reno," in a reference to the talk show host who favors gun control and Clinton's attorney general. The Republican governor also quipped that Clinton's support of measures such as waiting periods to buy a handgun has made the Clinton the "membership drive chairman" for the NRA.
The rally was billed as a "grass-roots," nonpolitical event, but several speakers -- particularly 4th Congressional District U.S. Rep. Jay Dickey, R-Pine Bluff, and 1st Congressional District GOP candidate Susan Myshka of Jonesboro -- sprinkled their speeches opposing gun control with attacks on their Democratic opponents.
Myshka blasted her opponent, incumbent Democratic U.S. Rep. Marion Berry of Gillett, for scoring an "F" on NRA legislative scorecards, and she promoted herself as a die-hard supporter of gun-rights.
"As a woman, I take it as a personal offense to tell me I have to have trigger locks because when I've got someone knocking at my door at 2:30 in the morning, I don't want to be looking around for a key," Myshka said. "I want to be looking under my bed to get my Smith & Wesson .916-pump shotgun and say, 'Come on. I'm sure you've got the wrong address.'
"Myshka pledged to "never vote for any gun law," adding that she'd "die over that before I'll give it up [gun-rights]." She said violence-saturated video games are more to blame for gun violence than an abundance of lawfully owned guns.
Tuesday's rally also offered a preview of the political fireworks in the hotly contested 4th District race. Dickey fired rhetorical shots at state Sen. Mike Ross of Prescott, his Democratic opponent, who also sat on the panel.
Dickey contended that Ross' support for gun rights, which has earned him an A+ rating from the NRA during his state Senate tenure, is questionable because Ross is to attend a fund-raiser next month attended by gun-control proponents like Clinton and House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt, D-Mo.
Ross responded that just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he automatically supports every position held by Clinton and Gore. Ross said he disagrees with both of them on gun issues.
"I'm a south Arkansas Democrat who knows we don't need more gun laws," Ross said.

This article was published on Wednesday, August 9, 2000

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 14:48:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 34705)
Sorry for posting moh' trivia tonite - but had to get it off my chest ...
... wassa matter with the Dow, SnP and Naz, while Spot, the
Labrador- not the golden Retriever, broke certain support levels. So, Retrievers aren't golden these days - the stock markets are easy equalizers to this kind of non-performance.
Punitive Punctures in the Tube may "herald" times of oxygen deficits ahead - after all the NW is burning (sorry I'm a forrester by training -so no pun intended) - only to
the fact of the overwhelming oversupply of "Greenleaves" causing similar effects now and in future. To all affected my heartfelt commiseration.

Relax- I'll promise not to post again tonight - cb2

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 14:15:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 34704)
Sorry for all my typo's saugage=sausage - 'nough said ...
Index finger too fast - gold too low - cb2 - too late

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 14:11:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 34703)
And BTW, where is friend Stranger...
when you need him?
Staking his privy family run in Park City in preparation of the Olympics? Noblesse oblige - pardon monsieur - save some
of the golden tickets for your bugsy amis at today's prices.
Best from the Al(b)ps -cb2

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 14:00:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 34702)
No moh need to hike ... da rate ... mon!
According to a Bloomberg report the FED see's slower growth ahead, which will retain prices. Even if labor markets continue tight and credit concerns are making banks choosier in their lending policies (old umbrella politics - lend 'em during sunshine and call 'em back at first signs of rain)-. FOMC discussions even have conservative Meyer on rates hold.

Above is a fast recap, explaining clearly - no more rate hikes - at least not before elections ... I'm truly amazed.`The prognostic capabilities of the FED seem as flexible as their policies. After "surprise" vigorous revival of 2nd. Qu. GDP growth, just announced last week at 5,2%, surprise, surprise FED's seeing slower growth and no effect on prices. Tihgt labor, tighter energy - probably compensated by "choosier" credit - as it were the only concern of banksters - will restrain any inflationary forces.

You've got to give credit (and don't be too choosy about it either) to those - no the right sort of the too big to fail - guys, or is it cronies to still maintain the stamina to spin it their way.

There's an end to everything - only saugages (german:no Austrian= Wuerstel) have two - and who in the end is the "Wurstel" (german:no Austrian= Clown)? Guess who - cb2





Christopher (08/09/00; 12:47:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 34701)
Gold at $200/oz
My gracious, but wouldn't you love to see it selling for that, if you are in accumulation mode, that is. Almost as pretty as $30,000/oz

SHIFTY (08/09/00; 12:38:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 34700)
How about a story?
Its a slow day!
The Gold Bug and the Dot-com investor


In a Gold field one summer's day a Dot-com investor was partying and spending and living the good life being totally content. A Gold Bug passed by,
bearing along with great toil a large stash of gold coins ( from Centennial Metals) he was taking to the
nest.

"Why not come and party with me," said the Dot-com investor "instead of toiling and moiling in that way?"

"I am helping to lay up real wealth before the crash," said the Gold Bug,
"and recommend you to do the same."

"Why bother about a crash?" said the Dot-com investor ; we have got
plenty of up side at present." But the Gold Bug went on its way and
continued its toil. When the crash came the Dot-com investor had no
wealth and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the Gold Bugs
living life and feeding their families without any worries from the stores of wealth they had
collected during the "New Economy ! " Then the Dot-com investor knew:


It is best to prepare for the days of necessity.


"GOT GOLD?"
What are you waiting for?
$hifty

Golden Truth (08/09/00; 11:03:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 34699)
To CAVAN MAN AND TOPAZ
Yes Cavan Man, I admit I do sway to and fro, because money is such an emotional subject for me, especially GOLD!!
Topaz, yes it's nice to have ones confidence back. I must give credit for alot of my knowledge and inspiration to where it is due, that is F.O.A.

Reading F.O.A has taken me on a journey i never thought possible, its been truly fantastic and i hope F.O.A is O.K! and returns once again to join us at the round table.

Question or maybe more of an observation? How can OIL be screaming upwards and the P.O.G be dropping? are we seeing the beginning of a breakdown in paper pricing on the comex?
Or are they just selling more paper in derivative form?
Or are more mines hegding and selling forward? Or have they found more Gold to pay the heating bill? Or all the above?

As "Another" used to say "time will tell all", and he also mentioned to watch the "price of OIL"! Well I can tell you now, more than just as GOLD owners, are now watching the P.O.Oil.

This winter is going to be something, with alot more to come. That does appear to be a FACT! that you can hang your hat on! Along with alot of other changes as noted here on this forum daily.
G.T

wolavka (08/09/00; 10:47:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 34698)
Could move higher now
Would like to see dec move back to 290-91 before close.

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 10:14:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 34697)
Bottom?
I'm not a chartist, though my gut feeling is we've seen a short term (May) double bottom - bottoms up friends - and a secular bull market in gold will emerge anytime now.
Please don't take me fo granted - I'm not advising jumping into gold and their shares head over heels - only
keep accumulating - time's and what's more physical 's running out on the bears and btw. Goldman sucks - learned a lot of new linguistics (slang) on other sites - cb (too)


CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 10:01:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 34696)
Hello -C-Man
That's probably the reason you should buy some more in this
greatest of all fire sales - 't makes you feel and sleep a lot better, while others try to buy back in a sold out buyers market. Only thingy of value! Best cb2

schippi (08/09/00; 09:18:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 34695)
Up / Down Gold Cycle Chart
http://www.SelectSectors.com/gldprd96to00.gif
The difference between the 2 week EMA and 4 week EMA
defines the oscillator. The length or period of the
oscillator Up and Down cycles are shown as a bar chart
for the 01/01/96 To 08/08/00 time frame. The chart uses
FSAGX data, but should be representative of all Gold Indexes.


wolavka (08/09/00; 09:07:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 34694)
no advise
But i like asa, not intended as advise:

Cavan Man (08/09/00; 08:33:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 34693)
Cobra(too)
I haven't bought one ounce of gold because I thought an economic disaster or event of highly negative proportions was headed our way. However, I am becoming increasingly convinced that we will not be able to avoid something terrible that will adversely impact many lives (economically i.e.). I hope I am wrong. I hate to admit I feel this way.

wolavka (08/09/00; 08:23:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 34692)
Chavez/Hussein
=, Panama canal. More trouble ahead.

Buena Fe (08/09/00; 08:18:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 34691)
The Matix?
I realise that this observation that I am about to share may have absolutely no basis in reality, but it may interest those who value God's Word. I am not claiming to be a prophet or anything....just observing something wierd.

The "New York Composite Index".....since July 1999....has hit major resistance and reversed over half a dozen times at the number 666.....it has stopped between 666.00 and 666.90 (the all time high April/00) several times including this morning 666.45. Why can't it break out to 667 or higher? Is this some kind of invisible wall that will not be breached? The number 666 is a very "pregnant" number in scripture with many esoteric beliefs surrounding it. It is called the "number of man".....maybe we're reaching somekind of spiritual barrier where God is saying enough is enough! I don't know....it just seams wierd.

Great stuff on oil.......lowest inventories since 1976!!!!!! do they realise how much higher consumptions is since then!!!!!!!! Natural gas is busting out also.....BIG change is in the wind..... Buy GOLD!!!!!!!!

Black Blade (08/09/00; 08:00:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 34690)
Pd still up
BTW, Pd is the only PM in positive territory this morning. Up +$10.00, at $772.00.

Black Blade (08/09/00; 07:55:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 34689)
@ Goldfly, thanks
We aims to please! With so many drones (investment analysts) out there spouting off the sanctioned company line, and not wanting to ruffle any feathers of potential corporate clients, it is only natural that someone without any ties to the investment community take a look at the "Big-Picture" and say "there's something rotten in the state of Denmark". As far as the PGM markets are concerned, Russia is an economic basket case. The rule of law, where it exists is arbitrary at best. Russian politics is absolutely corrupt, organized crime is pervasive, and in order to survive, the people are reduced to the most base common denominator. Russian politicians are in bed with organized crime. Anything of value is either stolen or sold for hard currency. Any foreign enterprise that invests in the former Soviet Union is crazy. The tax laws change with the wind, and can add up to well above 100% of profits (if there are any). When I was in that part of the world, it was really depressing to see so many people begging, and nice looking women trained as doctors, lawyers, etc. having to resort to prostitution in order to survive and feed their children. Russian (or CIS) industry is grossly inefficient. The concept of free-markets is a foreign concept and only exists in the black market. So, my take is, any real stockpile of PMs has either been scavenged, stolen, or sold off. Anything new coming out of the ground may make it to the western markets through official channels. But I am certain that there will be a lot of "leakage" as well. The continuous statements that deliveries will be made and that those commitments will be honored ring hollow. The former Soviet Union has always operated this way. Since Russia is the largest producer of palladium, it is a safe bet that Pd and even Pt will eventually rise to much higher prices.

CoBra(too) (08/09/00; 07:25:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 34688)
Crude , the $ and the effects on the rest of the world ?
While oil is potentially poised to rise to even higher levels short to medium term, most of the not $ world has to cope with a double whammy. Almost record high $ vs most other currencies - euro < 90 and stocking for winter just begins.

The oil producers must be happy to skim off the $ highs and higher oil price... as long as they know what to do with it, the $ that is. They probably don't want to see another Petro-$ glut a la 70's? ... and are they pickig up all the physical as per A/FOA? Seems to me a precarious balancing act between prudence of pricing and choking economies ...
Oh, I keep forgetting - NO Inflation.

Is this a means to mop up external $'s? So, who pray, will keep sending their ex-extra greenbacks to the oh so save haven in future and keep the financial markets running full steam? Is the day of reckoning close, or can AG still postpone the charade until ... until history will have judged ... even -once- great men can't abolish economic cycles - be they boom or bust or more benign, as in "soft landing", which noone (or is it Salzburg Festivals annual recurring "Jedermann"?) ever experienced.
... And the winner is - the traditional Austrian School of economics - ain't I proud? No, terrified of the consequences to the sheeple! As the establishment shoul be - musigs only! cb2




Goldfly (08/09/00; 07:23:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 34687)
Black Blade

Love your stuff. MK ought to advertise out on the net:

"Black Blade's Morning Wakeup Call -

Analysis with Attitude!"


I wish at some point in the last three months or so you would have posted something like "You know I'm right about this stuff, you'd better invest in Palladium."

I probably still wouldn't have done it. Oh well......

gf


Black Blade (08/09/00; 06:33:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 34686)
".....and up from the groun came a bubblin' crude, oil that is, Texas tea"
Crude Oil Jumps as U.S. Inventories Drop to 24-Year Low

London, Aug. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose more than 4 percent after a report indicated U.S. inventories declined last week to their lowest level in more than two decades, increasing concern of a shortage of heating oil this winter. Crude oil supplies dropped 0.8 percent to 282.6 million barrels, the American Petroleum Institute said, a level not seen since August 1976. Inventories of distillate fuels such as heating oil also fell, leaving reserves 20 percent lower than a year ago with the start of the U.S. winter just four months away. ``The across-the-board-stock draw is making people think,'' said Tim Noest, trader at ADM Investor Services International. ``Inventories are now below where they were in March and June, and oil got up to $33 then.'' Brent crude oil for September settlement rose as much as $1.25, or 4.3 percent, to $30.15 a barrel on London's International Petroleum Exchange. Crude oil for September delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange was up $1.10 at $30.22 a barrel in electronic trading. During the summer, refiners have focused on making gasoline to meet the needs of the U.S. driving season rather than build up supplies of heating oil, analysts said. Supplies of distillate fuels last week declined by 1.18 million barrels to 111.4 million barrels, the API said.

Crude

The API's weekly survey also said crude oil inventories in the U.S., the world's biggest energy consumer, last week fell 2.1 million barrels to 282.6 million barrels. Inventories are now 13 percent below last year, according to the API. Analysts surveyed by Bloomberg had expected the report to show an increase of in crude oil of between 2 million and 2.9 million barrels, after dropping 9 million barrels the week before. The drop a week earlier was the largest decline in six months, and prices rose 7 percent in the following four days. Still, some analysts speculated the findings may be revised. The U.S. Department of Energy largely confirmed the prior API survey. This week's DOE report is due out today at 9 a.m. New York time. Oil inventories are falling even after the Organization of
Petroleum Exporting Countries boosted output twice this year. OPEC has increased production by more than 2 million barrels a day, or2.7 percent of the world's daily output. OPEC, which pumps about 40 percent of the world's oil, meets again in September, and traders doubt the group will raise output again before then. Oil has gained about 40 percent in the last year. The price of a group of crude oils OPEC monitors stood at $26.61 a barrel on Monday, compared with the $25 target the group has set.

IEA

Oil topped $30 a barrel in London for the first time since July 14 even as the International Energy Agency said the outlook for prices may not be as strong as previously expected. Rising oil prices spurred production while restraining demand more than expected this year, the IEA's monthly report said, reducing the need for OPEC to increase output for a third time. Producers pumped 76.2 million barrels daily in the second quarter, 1 million more than in the first three months of the year. Consumers will use an average 75.8 million barrels a day this year, 1.3 million lower than expected a year ago, said the IEA, a forecaster for 25 oil-consuming countries.


Black Blade: Don't worry, it won't show up in the Core Rate, so all is well! Also, with hedonic statistics, I'm sure that the quality of travel has improved, so it must be higher quality oil. Ya just gotta love government statisticians. They're about as much fun as analysts are. Analyst, many who by the way, said last week and earlier this week that oil inventories would rise and oil prices would fall. My favorite contrary barometers, they've done it again. Buffoonery of epic proportions. They really shouldn't take the 2 drink minimum seriously at lunch.


Black Blade (08/09/00; 06:09:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 34685)
"Morning Wakeup Call!" PM markets under pressure, but petroleum looks to rise again.
Sources: BridgeNews and Reuters
Japanese buyers end 2000 Russian palladium talks; delivery to start Sept. Tokyo--Aug. 9--A few Japanese buyers have finalized talks with Russia's export agency Almaz on 2000 palladium shipments under long-term contract, buyer sources told BridgeNews on Wednesday. Almaz is expected to start the palladium delivery at the beginning of September and end in late December, they said. (Story .10416)

Black Blade: Old news, but not delivered yet.

Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold eases on Australia selling Tokyo--Aug. 9--Selling from Australia pushed down spot gold late in the Asian trading after consolidating at about U.S. $273 for much of Wednesday's trading, dealers said. Spot platinum and palladium market continued to be dominated by prices on the Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) with thin activity from other Asian players, they said. (Story .2200)

Black Blade: Gold slowly sliding down overnight, and PGMs mixed. Funny that no one seems to know who is selling gold in Australia.


Palladium Rebounds, Oil And Grains Firm
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Palladium prices shot higher on Tuesday, pulling platinum up with them as the markets continued to debate whether an expected resumption of Russian shipments will satisfy demand from automakers and other consumers. In other featured commodities trading, oil markets closed firm awaiting a weekly report on U.S. petroleum usage and stockpiles. Soybeans led grains higher as forecasts for hotter weather next week prompted some cautious profit taking. At the New York Mercantile Exchange, palladium rebounded after dropping back by more than $130 from the record high it had set last week. Palladium for September delivery closed $33.60 higher at $772.00 an ounce. That gain also helped sister metal platinum, which is also valued by the automobile, electronics and jewelry industries. October platinum rose $13.40 an ounce at $577.60. Traders said that a large commercial buyer bid up palladium through New York dealers early in the day, bargain-hunting for supplies, traders said. Physical supplies of the metal, used by automakers to clean exhaust gases, are still very tight. The market awaits completion of talks for fresh Russian shipments to Japan under term contracts for this year. Japanese traders said on Monday that a deal was imminent for palladium, but no official confirmation has been seen. Russia controls about 20 percent of global platinum supplies but about two-thirds of available palladium. It has often held back shipments since 1997, haggling for better prices. Palladium now is three times the price of gold.
In other markets, oil closed quietly higher as traders awaited the weekly estimates on U.S. oil usage by the American Petroleum Institute, an industry group. Crude oil for September delivery at the NYMEX closed 21 cents higher at $29.12 a barrel. September heating oil rose 1.62 cents at 79.83 cents a gallon and September gasoline ended 1.48 cents a gallon higher at 86.28 cents. Oil traders said they expected on average 2.0 million barrel increase in crude oil stocks for the week ended Aug. 4. But that was seen as too small to overcome the bullishness spurred by a surprise 9.0 million drawdown reported last week.
At the Chicago Board of Trade, soybeans led grain markets higher as traders began squaring positions ahead of Friday's monthly U.S. Agriculture Department crop estimates and after some fresh forecasts for hotter Midwest weather. Soybeans for September delivery closed 7 cents a bushel higher at $4.44-1/4. September corn rose 1-3/4 cents at $1.79-1/2 a bushel and September wheat closed 3 cents higher at $2.36-1/2. Forecasts for hot weather in the U.S. Midwest crop region added some support. The National Weather Service's six- to 10-day outlook issued on Monday night for early next week called for above to much-above normal temperatures with the hottest weather in the Dakotas, Minnesota, western Iowa and all of Nebraska, which are corn and soybean growing areas. However, most traders believe it will take more than one hot spell to change the overall picture for the next year of big surpluses in grains. Earlier on Tuesday, a survey of 1,250 grain elevators and merchandisers in the Corn Belt conducted by Chicago-based analyst Conrad Leslie estimated that this year's U.S. corn production will total a near-record 10.19 billion bushels and soybeans a record 2.94 billion bushels. Last year, corn production was 9.43 billion bushels and soybeans totaled 2.64 billion.

Black Blade: Maybe I should stop buying PMs and buy grain. I could brew my own beer ya know. PGM shipments from Russia at this point won't satisfy demand. Russian stockpile supplies are questionable. Oil inventories could surprise many, as there is likely to be a shortfall again.

Meanwhile, S&P Futures are up +6.00, Fair Value up +6.59, should be a bit of a pop to the positive side at the NY open. Oil is up $0.89 at $30.01/bbl on inventory concerns. NG is up $0.061 at $4.47 bcf closing in on its high. Au is down -$1.00 at $271.90 (OUCH), Ag is down a penny at $4.85 (What a Bargain!), Pt is off -$6.00 at $572.00, and Pd is up +13.00 at $775.00 as traders digest the Russian story on PGMs.



Cavan Man (08/09/00; 06:08:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 34684)
GT 34677
GT: I always am interested in what you have to say so keep on sayin' it. You do seem to vaciliate a little bit though don't you think?

wolavka (08/09/00; 04:57:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 34683)
Something has to give
Oil, commodites = big trouble ahead.

Last ditch effort, time now for gold.

Any spike now below 277 in dec is a final clean out. With oil news the spike down if it happens won't last.

Again watch CHINA

Topaz (8/9/2000; 3:57:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 34682)
Townie. all
T.C.
Filed in "favourites" ( spelt without the "U" :-))
A++ effort.
All:
Not wanting to steal BB's thunder- but I thought this interesting, (courtesy BRIDGE)
China PBOC Shenzhen considers building precious metals refinery
Hong Kong--Aug. 9--The Shenzhen Branch of the People's Bank of China (PBOC), the central bank, is considering building a precious metals refinery in the country's southern special economic zone of Shenzhen, an official at the PBOC
Shenzhen branch told BridgeNews Wednesday. But he indicated that no plans had been finalized. (Story .10958)

CoBra(too) (8/9/2000; 3:56:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 34681)
Hello T.C. - you're the champ
Well done and thank you - been on the verge of rounding up a posse to send after you - best cb2

HI - HAT (8/9/2000; 3:55:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 34680)
Town Crier.............New Live
This is a real nice addition to the site. Congradulations.

Am enjoying the news stories on the EURO. Very interesting.

TownCrier (8/9/2000; 3:31:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 34679)
A live news feed to keep you abreast of the latest gold market and economics developments
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
Now you know what's been keeping us busy here in The Tower...like a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest.

Topaz (8/9/2000; 3:22:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 34678)
G.T. all

A few days Skiing beats the hell outa watching POG squirm No?

G.T.
Good to see you're over your confidence crisis., The Cambior/Ashanti thingie gave us an insight into the murky world of $300-320 POG and you can rest assured we won't be goin there again. (Leastwise not intentionally)
Still the US$ remains on it's relentless upward trend along with the Yen & Pound- (despite all attempts by the BoE including their much despised (Au)ctions, to effect a slide)
Pretty well all others have a favourable Au ratio.

Next phase will be interesting:-
(a) run Au up to 290ish- will PGM's/Oil retreat?
(b) Screw down to 260's- Oil to $38- where plats?

Interestinger-n-interestinger.

Golden Truth (8/9/2000; 1:53:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 34677)
REVERSE THINKING THAT MAKES "ANOTHER AND F.O.A/T.G THEORY POSSIBLE???
I want to make this as short as possible, but anyone that still believes in the F.O.A/T.G theory of the paper price separating from the Physical Gold price read on.

I remember F.O.A saying that "Another" thought or said he believed the P.O.G would go to $200/oz. F.O.A said that he/she was shocked to hear that, and figured it would not, and would rise in price first and continue on up. Got to get to $30,000/oz somehow. F.O.A mentioned that would be the nicest way to resolve the coming price transition to the "New Gold Market"

This would also benefit the shareholders as the P.O.G went up and maybe allow them to transition over to physical metal if there was any to be found?

Well folks hang onto your hats i think "Another" will be proven correct.

Here is why, Everybody(Gold share holders) are upset by the
fact that Goldfields the 3rd largest Gold producer has been removed from the "XAU" and replaced with Phelps Dodge a copper producer, i think it's weighting on the index is 15-17%. Also another gold producer was added that has apparently hedged 50% of their production, the name escapes me, but it has been mentioned over at kitco and G.E

So what does this all mean?? I believe the complete opposite of what everyone is thinking. That being i firmly suspect that the P.O.G is going to drop further as the big banks back out of the paper markets, look at the low O.I at the comex.Investors are speculating that the P.O.G is going higher and thats why "GoldFields" was removed from the "XAU".

So not to attract attention to the "XAU" because of a rising Gold price,WRONG! Very wrong! IS not Goldfields 100% unhedged? What would happen to the "XAU" when the paper price of the GOLD metal starts to drop, Remember, Gold(metal) is the thermometer!!! Its so simple the "XAU" would start to crash, and panic investors to sell their paper gold shares, which would bring an end to the mines a little to soon for comfort.

Therefor insert into the index "XAU" a copper mine because you know inflation is coming and copper will keep up the index so all appears as being well? Look at the "XAU" yesterday it was up when Gold was down? Sure we've seen gold up and shares down or flat also, but thats more likely due to lack of confidence in the P.O.G moving higher.

Anyways yesterday gold goes down the "XAU" goes up? Why? because copper was up and any hegded goldmining shares stay the same
because they've hedged or do better because they show more of a profit? I presume?

This strategy will work very, very, well for them, firstly it prevents any PANIC selling of shares, which then could easily start buying GOLD(metal) at the $250/oz range. They will come up with all kinds of Bullshit as to why the P.O.G is only at $250/oz and falling, and will point to the XAU and say. See Gold will rally or come back up look at the XAU it hasn't fallen. They know everybody watches the XAU and not the P.O.G when it comes to market direction,but remember this market is not as before, or of your grandfathers!

Why would they do this??? Simple, they know the Dollar is going to fail and they want their hands on all the Goldmines, period. How will they do it? They will drive the price low enough to push un-hedged mines into bankruptcy first and if not, get them to sell forward, and prolong the game,either way they are going to try to get the GOLD.

Now what about the hedged companies, you say, or they say, no problem, we've hedged, we are safe, and laughing all the way to the bank. WRONG,very wrong when the time is right,i'd say at a point when production becomes more expensive than an OZ of Gold mined pays them lookout, PAPER MARKET magically breaks down and the physical price skyrockets!!!!

Now they come in and clean up and take over the hegded mines,YES? Just look at what happened To Ashanti mines in Ghana, Also the F---ing Queen of England, personally paid a visit to Ghana right after the fact,talk about a "smoking gun". Also Cambior in Montreal, Canada got taken to the cleaners. They are still rollingover their loan payback amount, in the hundreds of millions of dollars i might add.
I read about them time to time in the paper about how they are selling this property or that property and trying to pay back this phoney fiat money,due to their involvement in forward selling and selling of call options.

Yes i do believe this to be the "Masterplan" What else could it be? I don't believe in this DELATION crap anymore! Right Stranger? Look around,people, everything is going up and up!
It's a great way to scare us Physical GOLD holders also into selling our metal, they know a low gold price portends deflation? I say never! Will not happen. Notice no one even debates with the Stranger over inflation anymore, WHY? because it's here now,right now!TRUELY IT IS!
This game they are acting out is one big "ruse" to scare the Gold miners and the Gold owners into selling big time,Hey they got to get the GOLD somehow, without panicing the common folk, got to hand it to them they are pretty smart or should i say DEVIOUS!!!!!!!!

IN the bitter end and it will be bitter, death of any kind always is, and i suspect the Papermarket dying will be no different,these are the cold hard facts, I,am so sorry!

In the final analysis Physical Gold Holders Will probally be the only ones left standing when this "Perfect Storm" finally passes. GO GOLD,GO PHYSICAL YOU,VE BEEN WARNED!!!
As God as my witness I've told the whole truth and nothing but the truth as far as i understand it.

G.T







SHIFTY (8/9/2000; 0:19:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 34676)
Traficant Drops Treason Bombshell on Reno
http://www.remarq.com/read/5584/q_7i6NfIrW_cAAAAA?idx=0&si=msg&q=%2BJames+%2
Tuesday August 8, 2000; 12:10 AM EDT
Traficant Drops Treason Bombshell on Reno

Ohio Democratic congressman James Traficant accused Attorney General Janet
Reno of treason Monday night, saying he has evidence that she was
blackmailed not to appoint an independent counsel to investigate the
Clinton-Gore administration on Chinagate charges.

Appearing on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes," the Ohio Democrat
announced that he has five affidavits from individuals who charge that Reno
was repeatedly arrested for drunk driving in Florida during the 1980s, had
sex with a lesbian call girl and got her job as Miami's state attorney
through mob connections.

Traficant, who predicted last month that Reno was about to indict him on
corruption charges, suggested that Reno's encounter with the call girl had
been captured on videotape.

Critics of Traficant say the Congressman's comments on Reno are motivated by
the fact he is the subject of an FBI/Justice Dept. probe of having received
possible kickbacks.

Supporters of Traficant say that the Congressman has been targeted by the
Clinton White House and the FBI because of his criticism of federal handling
of controversies such as the Vince Foster death, TWA 800 and Waco.

The maverick congressman and frequent Clinton administration critic said the
FBI learned about some of the damaging evidence on Reno during a 1993
background check prior to her appointment to attorney general. But he said
he did not know whether the material was turned over to the Senate during
her confirmation hearing.

TRAFICANT: I have received several affidavits, and here's what these
affidavits allege. I have done some cursory investigation and will follow up
further myself on a limited budget. What I received was that Janet Reno was
first appointed to Dade County state attorney, they call them state
attorneys there, as a favor and a thank-you to the mob.

Number two, she's a lesbian. And I really don't care about anybody's sexual
preference ...

COLMES: Well, what are you saying that for ...

TRAFICANT: Hear me, hear me. This is an affidavit. This is an affidavit I'm
speaking to and I want you to listen to me. 'Cause I don't really care about
anybody's sexual preference.

COLMES: Then why bring it up?

TRAFICANT: Because it's in the affidavit, and listen to the salient points,
Alan. I'm not talking about Democrat and Republican. And I want you to set
Democrat aside tonight and set Republican aside tonight.

Janet Reno had a relationship with a call girl who was associated with
organized crime figures. And they have videotapes of this woman. Now hear
me. Also you had five police officers stop Janet Reno for substance abuse,
namely DUI - under the influence - willing to testify, never testified.

Now, here's the point I'm making. Listen very carefully. I will be
submitting FOIA requests. Because I believe Janet Reno in her failure to
appoint an independent counsel, specifically on the threatening issue, the
national security issue, China - she did so because of her blackmailability.

I want to know why, and how long it took for the FBI to investigate, if they
gave this information to the Senate, if the Senate knew about compromises
they had from outside the government. They knew about her past history of
alcoholism, her association with call girls. And they did interview several
of the affiants that have in fact given me these affidavits. Now hold on.

HANNITY: Hey, Congressman, well hold on one second. Let me ask a couple ...
Let's clarify. You have just declared war tonight on Janet Reno.

TRAFICANT: Yes, I have.

HANNITY: You made some very severe allegations. You say you have affidavits.
Who are these affidavits from?

TRAFICANT: These affiants wish to remain anonymous, but they will testify in
an open court or a congressional hearing of appropriate nature.

HANNITY: You are saying she is associated, and that people will testify with
evidence, that she was connected to the mob?

TRAFICANT: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And because of the fact -
and I'm looking into this - I'm not throwing any darts at the president at
this point or anybody. I want to know if the president got that information.
I want to know the timespan from when the FBI went down and interviewed
these affiants on these particular allegations, and how long it took for her
to be confirmed.

Janet Reno was one of the exceptions. They waved that 72-hour period from
the hearing to the confirmation. And in a lovefest she became the attorney
general, and I'm accusing the attorney general of treason right here.

#####################################################
Could it be ??? Someone with a shovel is heading out to the barn!
Might things be starting to unravel?
Time will tell.

$hifty







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