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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 7/8/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

SHIFTY (7/8/01; 23:43:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 57737)
Netking
POLL - POG/POS
POG - Priceless

POS - Priceless

You never know
:-)
$hifty

Black Blade (7/8/01; 23:32:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 57736)
World Markets Seen Facing Jitters Monday
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/breaking/breakingnewsarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20010708&ID=906097

Snippit:

LONDON (Reuters) - Global financial markets will come under pressure on Monday, with investor confidence shaky after a wave of U.S. and European corporate profit warnings and potentially destabilizing ructions in Turkey and Latin America. Analysts said on Sunday that stocks and risky assets such as emerging market and corporate bonds would continue to suffer while safe haven flows buttress government debt and the dollar.

Black Blade: We shall see. Asia tanking now and Europe to open soon.


Netking (7/8/01; 23:24:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 57735)
POLL - POG/POS - year end
POLL - POG & POS at Year End

QUESTION: Where to you see the 1)Price of gold, and 2) silver sitting as at the years end? Thus far we have;

GOLD - 31 December 2001
Netking $337.00
Megatron $295.00


SILVER - 31 December 2001
Netking $7.25
Megatron $5.75
-----------------------------------------------------------

Thought: Politics and human reasoning is better left for the "White House", not our hosts "Gold House".

Black Blade (7/8/01; 23:12:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 57734)
Asian Markets in Freefall!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
Asian markets continue to crash.

wiley (7/8/01; 22:53:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 57733)
Trail Guide, Another


I think this is my third post in as many years--not much to offer in this very erudite classroom I'm sorry to say. I'm an ageing Grandpa of 6 and 2/3s, now working on my 3rd. million after missing the first 2 and all my wife and I have now (and for the future) is what we have accumulated as a result of paying attention to every word on this Forum for the last 3 or 4 years. My wife won't touch a computer and is blindly relying on me to do the right thing as far as making the right decisions. Says I'm getting stoop shouldered from all these hours reading and re-reading this Forum trying to get an education on what I've gotten us into. I want all your input, good bad and/or indifferent.

A couple of classmates have done a no no. That's bad. Do we ALL have to get a spanking?

Thank you Another, FOA (TG) I always looked forward to your updates. You both have shared in the truest meaning of the word and I'm going to miss that deep down. You've been absolute gentlemen in the process which is something that's not being taught these days (along with a whole lot of other things). You can count your detractors on this august Forum on one hand. Please remember that leaves 3 more hands between you and a host of them out here.

I'm sad.

Wiley

ax (7/8/01; 22:50:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 57732)
GOLD SHOULD RISE : BUT NOT DUE TO CALIF'S ELECTRICITY PROBLEMS

GOLD SHOULD RISE : BUT NOT DUE TO CALIF'S ELECTRICITY PROBLEMS

In my opinion:

Gold should rise this year but don't relate that too closely to California's electricity
difficulties. The 12 % drop in consumption last month is just the start of a
major trend toward conservation in this state. This was largely due to people
reducing their use of lights. The large bills associated with air conditioning usage
hit this month and should result in a much greater reduction as people acustom
themselves to doing with less cooling.

The cost of electricity for industry is another matter entirely. Certain business
consumers cannot easily reduce their kilowatt-hour drain. They may be forced
to raise their prices to in/out of state consumers or close operations in the state.

As for the averge residential customer, one can expect a dramatic decrease in
consumption in the months to come.

Ax


Black Blade (7/8/01; 22:44:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 57731)
Natural Gas Supply Still Not Sufficient
http://www.latimes.com/news/comment/20010708/t000056141.html

Snippit:

Several factors have contributed to a reduction in demand for natural gas in California in the past month. First, there is more electricity available from non-gas-fired electric generation, such as nuclear and hydroelectric facilities. This has decreased the need for fuel for gas-fired plants. Second, energy conservation efforts statewide have caused an overall decrease in the demand for power, resulting in a decrease in demand for natural gas. Third, natural gas storage facilities across the country are refilling at a rapid pace, which has had a downward impact on natural gas prices.

However, the gap between supply and demand has narrowed but not closed. California gas prices have gone down but remain higher today than in the rest of the country. This discrepancy demonstrates that supply is still not sufficient to satisfy even the reduced demand, disproving the claims of manipulation.

Black Blade: Long hot summer. Hydropower is about to go offline as snowmelt is done. California still has alerts even with two new NG-fired power plants. With a doubling of drill rigs this year for petroleum, there is virtually no increase in NG production. Virtually every new power plant (about 300 by 2006) will be NG-fired. The economy will either have to decline or the production of "Cheap Energy" will have to increase. We are headed for "Interesting Times." Gold as portfolio insurance looks better all the time.


DIRECTOR (7/8/01; 22:33:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 57730)
FOA and ANOTHER
Please dear Sirs. Please here the cries of the 99% of the posters and lurkers at this most wonderful Forum. Please do not let that 1% drive you both away from the 99% of us who want and need your most important thoughts and words. I don;t think it will ever freeze over, but Please come back to us. And Thank You MK for this, the best Forum around. I will go back to lurking now.


Black Blade (7/8/01; 22:25:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 57729)
Summer blackout fears spread across U.S. Western states, New York City may share California's pain
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/07/08/MN146243.DTL&type=news

Snippit:

Although California has the bleakest outlook, with up to 260 hours of rolling blackouts predicted, the Pacific Northwest, New York City, other Western states such as Nevada and Arizona, and even Texas might undergo some nail-biting times. "This is one of the worst years in terms of outlook for our seasonal assessments," said Eugene Gorzelnik, a spokesman for the North American Electric Reliability Council, which oversees the nation's interlocking grids. In a summer assessment issued in May, NERC identified several regional "areas of concern" where a prolonged spell of hot weather or an inordinate number of plant outages could trigger problems. They include: -- New York City. Outside of California and the West, the Big Apple has the grimmest summer prognosis.

Black Blade: A few blackouts at inopportune times this summer could accelerate the plunging markets and the bring on the inevitable economic crash. Tonight we see the Asian markets continue to plunge into the abyss. This is not unexpected as Asia is an economic basketcase. Asian currencies are nearly worthless, and only mainland China is taking very minor measured steps of acquiring gold reserves. The energy crisis is the trigger that will push the US and perhaps Europe over the edge.

Gold - Cheap Insurance - Proven Protection!


foolsgold51 (7/8/01; 22:12:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 57728)
Disgusted
Once again I see what has become an epidemic in this country of attacking the message if you disagree with it, or worse the person giving it.

This message board was a cut above the others. What ever happend to the saying "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to death, your right to say it!"

That was the America I grew up in, today its more like "Its my way, or the highway!"

Honest men can disagree, honestly! What ever happened to the honest man?

USAGOLD is a great site, are we going to degenerate to the lowest level, I read this forum to find the opinions of adults, children should be seen and not heard.

Max Rabbitz (07/08/01; 21:55:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 57725)
G7
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=82442
A link about G7 meeting from G-khan on the other forum. He speculates all will come out with Uniform rate cuts to juice the world's economies.

G'nite

LeSin (07/08/01; 21:54:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 57724)
TG/FOA & ANOTHER - - "GET BACK IN THE GAME, NOW - PLEASE"!!!
Gentlepersons All - Especially TG/FOA

I have great joy since arriving to Australia in observing the Football Game refered to here as "Aussie Rules". Even more so do I enjoy watching the younsters at play in the parkland ovals.

The unwritten rule of "play-on" after a dispute is of particular interest.

One local lad decides that since he has an official "Aussie Rules" Football (refered to here as a "footy") he should invite the rest of his "mates" for a game (a "kick"). All gather and the game begins. Naturally a dispute will arise.

In the dispute if the lad that brought the footy is involved, and he gets angry and collects his footy and commences to leave, the reaction and emotion is amazing to me. In one voice all the lads immediatly turn with dismay and shout "quitter" - "You know you can't invite us here for a kick of the footy and then pick up your ball and leave".

It is locally called "he picked up his footy and went home"

Nuff said
P/S: How does your garden grow?
"S"



SHIFTY (07/08/01; 21:16:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 57723)
Asia in the RED
http://finance.yahoo.com/m2?u

Asia in the RED again tonight.

$hifty

goldenpeace (07/08/01; 21:05:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 57722)
Remember the meaning!
Dear TG and Another,

Please, please remember that clear seeing, deeper meaning and the truth are what this Forum is ultimately all about...and that rarely is it to be found anywhere in the depth that it is found on the Trail....Gold is such a metaphor and archetype for the truth and meaning of the human life...most here..and there are thousands of lurkers such as myself...are questing for those deeper places.
If the Forum loses its best voices it is reduced...and all will have to find their way with their own limitedresources, much more meager than those of an information gathering collective.
Please..remember the meaning behind what we are doing and reconsider your decision to terminate.
Humankind is not perfect...we are all doing the best we can, even if this intent manifests poorly or not atall.
Regards andHappy Trails if need really be.
Goldenpeace

SHIFTY (07/08/01; 21:05:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 57721)
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU
http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm
OOOPS !
Forgot the "Dow"


Nasdaq 2,004.16 + Dow 10,252.68 = 12,256.84 divide by 2 = 6,128.42 Ponzi

Down 203.05 from last week.

Sir Rossl : Thanks for the link.

Looks like another interesting week ahead.

$hifty


Tree in the Forest (07/08/01; 21:03:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 57720)
Trail Guide and all
I am sorry to see you and Another go Trail Guide. I for one have learned a lot from you though we may not agree on all issues. I am an American first, not a globalist.

We all need to be aware that there are no formal requirements for posting here. Michael does not check our backgrounds or education. Anyone can start posting. It is up to Michael (or his able assistant Randy) to decide what is on topic or off topic and who is over the line as far as the rules are concerned. I do believe that staying on topic has merit but we need to recognize that as gold heats up, it will affect nearly everything. I am looking forward to the day when gold can no longer be ignored.

SHIFTY (07/08/01; 21:03:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 57719)
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU
http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm

Nasdaq 2,004.16 + 10,252.68 = 12,256.84 divide by 2 = 6,128.42 Ponzi

Down 203.05 from last week.

Sir Rossl : Thanks for the link.

Looks like another interesting week ahead.

$hifty


abudahhab (07/08/01; 21:02:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 57718)
FOA Leaving?
I don't post too often as I'm just too busy trying to make a living. My work is purely focused on the coming "Golden Age".

FOA, it was yours and Another's postings which prompted me to join the USA Gold Forum and contribute whenever posible. My views on the coming Golden Age are not much different than yours, yet I always find some great pearls in each of your postings. One should never stop the process of learning.

I can tell you that I am often the subject of highly derisive comments when describing my views on gold and wealth. This has never stopped me tho, as it was the sage wisdom of my elders that set me on this path.

Your commentaries are important to many and I kindly suggest that you reconsider your decision to quit the Forum. Even if your message enlightens only a few, it is likely that you will help save them and their loved ones from the coming final inflation. For this alone, the aggrivation of the fools should be suffered and ignored.

Kind regards,
abudahhab

megatron (07/08/01; 20:49:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 57717)
Survey
Silver @$5.75 Gold @ $295
My reasoning; if these seem low, it's because at year end the internet and society will have collapsed, last posted $ figure will be these, and it will be acedemic :^) or :^(

Orville Goldenbacher (07/08/01; 20:46:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 57716)
Buy Gold!
http://www.usagold.com/onlinestore/special.html
Gold is a GREAT investment!!!

What? Do you really need a story to go with this great advice?

Do you believe in Angels? I do!

Netking (07/08/01; 19:41:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 57715)
All - POG & POS - PRICE POLL - Year End
Friends, just an informal poll for those who want to take part.

ALL, QUESTION: Where to YOU see the 1)Price of gold, and 2) The price of silver sitting as at the years end?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Rich. As an example of how very small this market is. . . I read somewhere(it may have been one of TB's thoughts?)that if Microsoft paid out a div. equal to only 1% of their capitalization, that this div. would buy ALL of the worlds above ground silver. Now Sir, that IS food for thought!

R Powell (07/08/01; 19:27:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 57714)
Megatron, slingshot, auspec and Netking
Thanks for the replies! Silver cable-
The company mentioned produced the 900 lbs of superconductive silver coated cable that replaced 25,000 lbs of conventional copper cable in Detroit. This company is located in MA. as am I, so I'll take your advice and call them for whatever information they will disclose. I'm sure they buy silver in much larger quantities than most.
Yes, silver is an antiseptic. It's inelastic industrial uses are increasing in medicine along with technology.
Agree that leasing (and then sold) supply is distorting the true supply available picture in both gold and silver with the big difference being that totally exhausted above ground supply will, by force, eliminate further leasing. This again assumes that the numbers thrown about estimating remaining supply in storeage are at least close to accurate and that there will simply be no more, and soon!
Lastly, thanks for the idea of talking directly to Ted Butler. I suppose that I shouldn't be timid in asking. After all, most great analysts are enthralled enough with their subject to talk to anyone with some knowledge and interest. I'll bet even Michael, who probably has only a handfull of peers when the discussion is the gold market, has learned a thing or two from the rest of us.
A last thought, Buffett managed to buy, on the Comex, about 89 million ounces during the summer, fall and early winter of 1997-1998 before a lawsuit forced his buying disclosure. Do you suppose rumors of big buyers in the metals markets have any truth behind them?? I know, who can say. But this is another reason to be positioned before the fact. Disclosure of a big name buyer would mean that the train has left the station, no?
Thanks for the thoughts, guys, keep them coming.
Rich

Hipplebeck (07/08/01; 19:24:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 57713)
Trail Guide and Another
For awhile there I thought maybe I was listening to someone with wisdom. If this rough conversation by someone who perhaps needed to express a few things has got you so upset, I think maybe I was wrong. I don't see wisdom now, only conceit. If you are not wise enough to realize that most of us are on the same page with you, maybe your are not ready to be teachers.
No offense boys

Mythical (07/08/01; 19:16:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 57712)
Farfel
"In the final analysis, as long as I see the continued dominance of USA GOLD by the gold guru trio, who have been warning of a "new gold market" for the past several years - and who have been proven to be relentlessly WRONG - then I, for one, shall remain a very infrequent poster to this forum." ...

Then I, for one, shall remain thankful as you continue to post infrequently. On a side note, as you mentioned in true "Farfel" fashion that posters here resort to racist ideals, the problem is in relation to foul language and certain guidelines...obviously something you've never had respect for. I for one applaud FOA and Another for their tireless effort and certainly hope to hear more of their eloquent "thoughts." Thank you FOA & Another!

Mythical


megatron (07/08/01; 18:30:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 57711)
Offensive posts?
I found working-kirks post interesting and rough. That, my suburban friends(anyone) is the way a lot of the world works.

BUT, as Mr. working kirk should know, when you are in someone eles's home(no matter where), you ACT ACCORDINGLY. When I go to dinner at someones home who is religious, I bow my head when they do. I have nothing but distain for religion, but it is thier belief and I RESPECT IT. I have posted some semi-idiotic things, when riled, but hopefully know when to draw the line. There must be a self-policed line, and I believe working kirk crossed it, and, I believe, he will reply with a honest man's apology. The post was a good read, though.

Max Rabbitz (07/08/01; 18:15:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 57710)
Free Speech
We post at the privilege of our host. It is his home and his rules. He defines what is relevant and what is disruptive to the purpose of the forum. Those who value gold are constantly denigrated by our media and the gamblers in the casino. Why give them more ammunition? Debate over fringe topics considered "kooky" by the mainstream can only hurt and distract from the purpose. Gold and the economy covers a lot of topical ground but I would trust our host to define the boundaries and standards.

The post earlier today was something that I've never seen before on this forum. I doubt I will again. It shows what an eclectic mix of people are interested in gold. But Farfel, I work in an Historically Black University and none of the brothers and sisters I've worked with for 16 years have ever used those words in mixed company, if at all. The standards you refer to are not restricted to the white race. To imply so is insulting. To insist on standards is not racist, perhaps elitist. But what's so wrong with having a little class?

As far as Journeyman, I don't know that he was referring to Another, rather I think he was denigrating the American media by equating them to that of Goebbels. I've got a lot of problems with media bias but to equate them to Hitler's propaganda machine is a little overboard. Many would think it wacky. Going to extremes more often hurts the argument than helps.

Many of the posters on this forum have helped me immensely. During the last year of lurking and then contributing a few posts I now feel I grasp some of the basic structure of our fragile economic system.

Thank you Trail Guide for presenting your view of the trail ahead. It has helped me to understand the present reality and prepare, and I enjoyed the hikes. I now own significantly more physical gold than one year ago when I first started reading....and I sleep better at night. Much of what I have saved is in restricted State approved retirement and annuity funds that give me little choice. They may all burn. Half is in an inflation-indexed bond fund that may do better (???). I believe the future is not fore-ordained and a Guide can only be expected to show the lay of the land as we explore the trail. None know when the earth will quake or the land will slide. But I see the valley now and those working to construct bridges. Thank you.





lamprey_65 (07/08/01; 18:13:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 57709)
Weighing in
"Always leave them wanting more"...

Se la vie.



slingshot (07/08/01; 18:11:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 57708)
Peter Asher. Who owns the gold?
The way I read it, There will be two classes of people.
Power Elite and servants. The amount of Gold processed by the ordinary citizen will be few. Look at ratio who were impoverish in the depression to those with golden spoons in their mouths. What were their names? The answer to that is ,Who is in power now. Same family. The injustice was taking
(making illegal) or giving a lower value of what it really was worth. Didn't the goverment raise the value after they thought they had it all, or all they could get. The populace were given work programs in return. Maybe the question is who will be allowed to own the Gold?
I am the first in my family to own physical gold. How many of my friends own gold? NONE. They perfer stocks. I agree that there has to be someone else besides the banks to have gold to make it work. But WHO? I plan to be one of the Who.
Slingshot

Hi-Hat (07/08/01; 18:11:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 57707)
Michael Kosares
I am saddened and empathic with the dis-respect
and cavalier manner shown to you and USAGOLD today.

FOA and Another freely chose to engage the public
through this venue. Of course they can freely choose
not to.

However, at this crucial point in the dialogue, with them
being afforded the unique status and honor of being up on the company masthead, and blow us all out of the water in front of the world, without consulting YOU first........
is not a class ACT.......in my opinion.

Nothing (07/08/01; 18:09:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 57706)
THE TRAIL WITHOUT GUIDES
Truly your thoughts have created the possibility of changing the world! Ever since I discovered USA GOLD and read your thoughts, I have since chanded my life. I drink alot more now :) Both of you have have planted the seeds for greatness in many peoples lives without asking for any part of the harvest. This is truly a sad day....... I sincerely
"hope" (I hate this word) you reconsider your decision, I would very much enjoy following both of you on the trail before us all. I can imagine there will be many wrong turns on the journey, nothing experienced guides can't handle.
Your thoughts on the future of gold have been wonderfull, If you leave, our new song will be que sera sera the future's NOT.....

Best wishes to you both, NOTHING

Netking (07/08/01; 17:33:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 57705)
R. Powell - Ponderings on Silver continued . . . .
Rich(57695)

Rich.- Will the price of silver disregard the once huge but now almost extinct above ground supply? Will the market demand that existing carryover plus yearly production (total supply) fall short of demand before price rationing appears? There are many quesstimates concerning exactly when this may happen but even the most exhaustive efforts are inaccurate due to the market's lack of transparency.

Netking > Yes it has disregarded "the once huge but now almost extinct above ground supply", but ONLY because the market perceives there is more inventory than what there is. . .a.k.a. LEASING! This is a perverse manifestation of (IMO)the most manipulated market of all time, when it's time though to break through because of an exhaustion of physical supply, then that pent up energy will be released on the price.
----------------------------------------------------------
Rich.:"existing carryover plus yearly production (total supply) fall short of demand before price rationing appears?"

Netking> . . . This IS the case now Rich. . .yet it's because of leasing that the supply of silver has been multiplied, to the point of near exhaustion in above ground physical terms, it's like a human with huge amounts of energy being run on huge doses of steroids but undergoing multiple major organ failure at the same time, it will catch up. . . . As I posted saturday(?)from 'Jeffrey Christian's: CPM Groups Silver Report' "Mine production could rise another 100 million ounces over the next few years, which would represent an expansion of historical proportions. Even if it did, the increase in and of itself would NOT(NOT!)be sufficient to close the gap between new supply and demand". . . every time the market trys to rally, Leasing's tag wrestling partner called "Short Selling" steps into the ring, this guy was trained by King Curtis, He's da Man! . . . But when the physical from ANY source(particularly leasing) starts to dry then, ignition.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Rich. When an actual shortfall occurs and there is not enough supply to fill immediate orders for those in need of physical silver, I believe, then, at that time, no amount of paper trading will be able to control the POS.

Netking> You read it 100% correct Rich. Until that time the paper dealers will continue to short & will have a measure of control. But look for the PPT to do a prgressive retreat to a higher price before years end or soon after(?), releasing the pressure on the "pressure cooker" a little(I suggest $6.00-$10.00(IMVHO)). This will be a good time for those with some paper to change to all physical holding if they want to yes.
------------------------------------------------------------
Rich. My limited understanding of trader psychology leads me to believe that POS can not rise very much before POG follows upward, and POS (IMHO) is going to rise very much. The same works for POG leading POS upward. This belief is based on how traders work and has nothing to do with fundamentals (which also foretell of price increases).

Netking> Think of the POS tied to it's bigger brother "The POG" by a stretchy bungy cord, whatever one does the other will copy except that silver more will be exaggerated up AND down. . .we have seen that ratio exaggerated down, now ahead the upward exaggeration of POS:POG ratio.

Your wife will thank you for the silver, particularly in the next year or two, mine has actually come to like "all those bars"(grin), I keep 'em all polished up now like her silver spoons! Time is getting close, much sooner than we think . . .my calls are for Dec '02 but it'll be cash in time prior to that(IMO) (PS: You may want to E Mail Ted Butler with some specific questions. I won't post his E Mail, but it's not too hard to find) - Netking

Peter Asher (07/08/01; 17:32:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 57704)
Slingshot & All

How valuable would gold be to the CBs if there were no public Gold ownership. There has to be a buyer pool to create the value to back the currency and economy having the hoard. Or so it would seem.


slingshot (07/08/01; 17:03:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 57703)
How will they know you have the gold?
Awhile back I read an article which stated that when F.D. Roosevelt made it illegal to own gold that a Goverment person was with you when you opened your safety deposit box.
Can that happen today? Imagine if people started to take fiat money out of the bank. Those who have savings anyhow.
Combine that with cashing in those stocks. The coin/ bullion only takes cash and at then end of the day makes a cash drop to the bank. Well all that cash from one spot. Now when it goes electronic the goverment has a a small track on where the gold is going. All it has to say is that you must register your gold transaction. No tax, just register. Will the flight to PM's produce a run on the banks. The Goverment will not care if the coin/ bullion dealer holds the gold. But I think it will when sales pick up.
Slingshot

auspec (07/08/01; 16:49:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 57701)
slingshot/R.Powellsilver
I have known of, followed, and finally met the brains behind the US production of 'bandages' impregnated with silver and similar medicinal uses. Let me assure you there is solid science behind these undertakings and they will/should reach state of the art sometime in the not too distant future. It is real. If you want a wound to heal rapidly without scarring, silver bandages are for you. The Japanese use silver on the surfaces of commonly used items such as writing pens as to make the surfaces bacteria resistant. Colloidal Silver has been FDA approved for MANY decades as an antibacterial solution. In their protectionistic ways this is currently under attack as I understand it, not because of the inneffectiveness of silver, but because of FDA/Pharmaceutical business as usual. Why does silver have these properties when other elements DO NOT? I don't know, but always keep some on hand for medicinal purposes. Within 10 years this will be 'common' knowledge and you will see advertisements on TV promoting same. Another indispensable use for the marvellous element, Ag.
Thanks,
agspec

Artie Farkle (07/08/01; 16:41:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 57700)
(No Subject)
OOPS!
Should read "throw trash". : )

Artie Farkle (07/08/01; 16:30:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 57699)
(No Subject)
Hello TG/FOA/Another

To be sure, there was one offensive post today and, that is regrettable.
However, to leave because of that would be akin to seeing someone through trash on the sidewalk and then leave the city because of it.

I'm here every day soaking up as much as I can.

I appreciate everybody's efforts in bringing in so much data, analysis, and thoughtful discussion. : )

slingshot (07/08/01; 16:28:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 57698)
R Powell Msg # 57695
I have read articles that silver is to be used in power transmission. 3 tons per mile. The medical field for its anti bacterial anti fungal capabilities and since pure water will be a factor inthe future, its filtration capabilities.
Could silver out pace gold in the ratio equation or will gold and silver be a push me tug me scenario?
Slingshot

turkey hunter (07/08/01; 16:25:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 57697)
Thank you Another and FOA
I apprieciate all the information you have given us here at the forum. I feel very blessed to have stumbled across this web page just a little over a year ago. Thanks for waking me up to what is happening.

If you are one of "small worth", can you not follow in the footsteps of giants? I tell you, it is an easy path to follow!"

I just love this saying. Thanks again.
Turkey Hunter

megatron (07/08/01; 16:18:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 57696)
R Powell
My plan of action has always been, number one, Phone the person. Whoever it is, Engelhard, J+M,China, I don't care. I phone people directly and ask pointed questions. Sometimes you will be shocked at the level to which you will rise. Many times when I was promoting some rap group to a label I would somehow manage to get into the presidents office and would be told many candid,revealing things, maybe even GASP things I didn't want to hear. Also I learned MANY things I never would have known, from reading articles alone. If you want something done.............you know the rest. As for silver supplies, through my phone calls I've discovered that many products are not available for long periods or not at all, from different refiners.

R Powell (07/08/01; 16:03:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 57695)
Plea for information or opinions
To clarify, what I should have said,
Will the price of silver disregard the once huge but now almost extinct above ground supply? Will the market demand that existing carryover plus yearly production (total supply) fall short of demand before price rationing appears? There are many quesstimates concerning exactly when this may happen but even the most exhaustive efforts are inaccurate due to the market's lack of transparency.
The cotton market, with China being equal to the U.S. in production and demand, has also frustrated serious efforts to ascertain supply/demand numbers. It does not surprise me that GFMS cited China as a dishoarder of 61 million ounces of silver last year. I suspect that, when the numbers don't tally correctly, they are forced to quess or surmise or suppose like the rest of us.
I find the present POS unrealistically low, especially given the hints of the opinions of truly great, patient, quality investors like Berkshire Hathaway. My own quess, and make no mistake, it is a quess; is that an actual shortfall will occur next year. By this I mean not enough silver to fill existing orders for those who actually use the physical silver. I will be even more amazed if the POS remains calm until the very day this happens.
Will this happen? Shrug, shrug. What do we know of Marcos silver? Black silver? Unaccounted for hoards? I have hit a frustrating impass as I can not find enough sources of information to increase my knowledge of this situation. I will be very grateful for any leads towards more knowledge! Thanks!!
Last point. When an actual shortfall occurs and there is not enough supply to fill immediate orders for those in need of physical silver, I believe, then, at that time, no amount of paper trading will be able to control the POS.
My limited understanding of trader psychology leads me to believe that POS can not rise very much before POG follows upward, and POS (IMHO) is going to rise very much. The same works for POG leading POS upward. This belief is based on how traders work and has nothing to do with fundamentals (which also foretell of price increases).
Writing helps me to clarify my thoughts. It also helps me retain facts and thoughts. I have none in my immediate every day existence who have even the slightest interest in any of what so many here find fasinating. Thanks for listening and sharing thoughts.
Rich
P.S. My wife wishes to add her thanks that you will listen to me.

megatron (07/08/01; 15:43:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 57694)
RPowell
If you want to see some interesting data on gold/silver vs many currencies check out oanda and on the graph page you can juxtapose different combinations. It's revealing.

R Powell (07/08/01; 15:16:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 57693)
Silver and market thoughts
My approach to the market analysis of any commodity is that of price determination by supply and demand. In most markets that include growing seasons, supply equals last year's leftovers (carryover) plus this year's production. Demand equals the best estimates of projected useage. All these numbers are revised as time passes. Of course, nothing is this simple and politics, wars, embargos and currency exchange rates are just some examples of other variables. However, continually changing supply and demand estimates are constantly reflected in price changes. It is not unusual for a change in the weather to drastically alter grain prices, often many times in one week. Slight yearend changes in carryover (usually expressed as a percentage of the yearly useage) determine prices.
Obviously, markets such as gold and silver are different in that carryover is a much greater amount than a small percentage of one year's total use. However, given that demand is greater than supply year after year, shouldn't the price reflect a growing tightness in supply regardless of what carryover exists. Did not this carryover exist many years ago and is it not growing smaller as time passes? I know, the massive paper trade has obscured the true yearly supply and demand fiqures.
But can paper trading really obscure the fact that demand will exceed supply in the silver market in the near future?? Judging from their known financial moves, the likes of Gates, Buffett and Soros have invested in silver (and probably gold) yet are we to still assume that the market players, producers and consumers are still unaware of the impending shortfall?? I believe this may be true of most technical analysts who manage huge commodity funds. Are we so few in number and influence that the huge above ground excess of silver, that has existed all our lives, will actually run out before the POS reflects the true supply/demand situation??
Can't happen! I don't know of many commodity analysts (out of the large number whose opinions I read) that saw the 4 times price rise in natural gas. It's coming and strength of advance surprised the majority of those whose make their livelihood from watching for just such occurances
Solomon recently answered some of my questions (thanks!) with an opinion that silver may double within 3 years. I believe he is even more optimistic than that thinking that "the dramatic situation in silver is simply not discounted for". Both of us believe that, when it happens, prices will advance explosively and, as both gold and silver are monetary metals, POG will explode with the silver. Whatever positions you favor, holding some before the event seems prudent. AOL has already warned me of a coming disconnect so I must sent this now or lose it!
Any thoughts!!??
Rich

Netking (07/08/01; 15:12:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 57692)
FOA ANOTHER
FOA ANOTHER: I thought Mr Kirks post earlier today was an "error" on his part, he is capable of "much, much better" than this. It could be that there is some things he may need to do at this point, as we all do when any of us "mess up". Lets let the dust settle. Mr Kirk, I believe you'll do the honorable thing now(smile).

FOA, Auspec makes some good comment which I won't take band width repeating in my words, just let me say . . . Sir you've got to do what you gotta do. I came here years ago to read your posts among other reasons. I have been challenged and educated a the same time. Nothing lasts for ever, the only sign of life is. . .growth. If it's the time and season to move the wagon on, so be it, just have peace Sir & don't move reactionly.

In any case, let me just say for the last few years, "Thank You Sir!" - May God richly bless you wherever you go - regards Murray.

White Hills (07/08/01; 14:44:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 57691)
End of the Trail
FOA, ANOTHER, I am very sorry that you are no longer using this forum to educate readers on the Gold Trail. I have read every Post that you have written and have learned much. I am very upset at the type of language that appears here, not really necessary to make a point, and that some posters that seek to demonstrate their superior knowledge go a little bit over the line. I know that you have shown the way on the Gold Trail and it will continue until its ultimate end of trail. The fact that you will not be there to explain current happenings as they fit into the Trail, to me, will take a lot of the excitement and fun out of hiking on the trail. But, Trail Guide as the events unfold and the trail ends much the way you and Another have predicted and Gold Goes " TO THE MOON, ALICE" I find it hard to believe that you will not post just one more time in Jubilation for every worker must have his due for a job well done as we all cheer you both. The Best for you both, White Hills

slingshot (07/08/01; 14:36:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 57690)
You Rang Auspec?
Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is not the time for division. Although I have been a GOLDBUG for a short time compared to most of you, only a fool would deny that something is in the wind. To be quiet now would play into their hand. The lurkers and Small Time Investers need someone to hold up the torch. USAGOLD has performed this job SECOND TO NONE! To tell you the truth, There is no way I can gather, process and disseminate the information posted on this site. It is a joint effort. All I have is what I see at my dealer. Its not 100 0z. Just 1/10 or an ounce at a time. I believe that is going to bite them in the shorts. I hope I have not offended others in the past by my humor and poor computer skills. The call for the Lurkers to come forth has been raised. I'm Still Here! Where are THE REST OF YOU!
Slingshot

Old Yeller (07/08/01; 14:22:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 57689)
It's clean-up time

Working Kirk's post of this morning is totally offensive and completely beyond the realm of our discussion.The rules of the forum are well known to all posters,especially after the J-Man incident of the last few weeks.I am well aware,as all of us are,of the seamier side of the human condition. I don't need to be reminded of this in one of the few refuges on the net where politeness and proper conduct are to be expected.Working Kirk,I have sympathy for your plight,but you have tainted the forum with your poison.Just go away,please.

Trail Guide,please reconsider;we need your input as the trail becomes steep and dangerous.

BH (07/08/01; 14:20:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 57688)
A/FOA
Please reconsider and do not punish your many -silent- followers (who DEPEND on your ongoing guidance and encouragement) for the abuse of the forum by some posters.



Usul (7/8/01; 14:13:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 57687)
This could end badly
http://www.economictimes.com/today/07curr02.htm
Dollar lords it over the currency pack

"The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all..."
- Jimmy Cliff (1971)




auspec (7/8/01; 14:06:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 57686)
Me Again FOA/ANOTHER
Journeyman's "Reminds me of another illustrious information guru" is relating to Goebbels! It has nothing to do with "ANOTHER", this is clearly a large misunderstanding of Jman's post.There are words in the English language such as 'another', giants, Goliath etc. that are in common usage outside our esteemed Gold Trail. There is no monopoly on these words! I can clearly see the hypersensitivity, but it is missplaced in this situation.
Journeyman has his differences of opinion, but I have never seen cheap shots from him or conduct other than that of a Gentleman.
We should not lose our two most esteemed GENTLEMEN over this issue! Or any other Gentleman for that matter.
Right, GENTLEMEN??

rc (7/8/01; 14:00:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 57685)
@All - Working-kirk & Journeyman
What is going on here? Working-kirk and journeyman are speaking the truth. They are talking about real life. That their posts are somewhat out of topic doesn't change that fact.

What in working-kirk's post so angered Trail Guide? Instead of taking the posture of the offended virgin I rather should like to know what in that post was so insulting. Personally I found it very realistic and up to the point.

As for journeyman, I am at a loss to understand how Trail Guide can be offended.

It seems to me that Trail Guide wants to decide what we are allowed to say in this forum. I don't play that game.

I won't say more for now.



Chrusos (7/8/01; 13:52:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 57684)
Trail Guide FOA
Just a short note of appreciation for all the great posts and thought provoking concepts you have shared at USA Gold. Your ideas have forever changed how many gold followers think about gold and saved many of us from gold surrogates. From other sites I can assure your ideas have attained great "currency." Holding physical is accepted wisdom whereas in the past the options and mining shares were the grail as they are supposed to be geared many times to the gold price.

I have been following the gold discussion on numerous sites for about 3 years and I regard yours and Another's thoughts as high pinnacles. Fortunately your legacy exists on the Trail and Gilded Opinion and also in my extensive FOA clippings file many of which I have circulated to clients who all now hold trusty physical -- many in significant portions.

My wife's and my own small wealth and my 9 year old son, who has earned cash in advertising, is invested in Krugers.

We have come a long distance and some of the companions are certainly less congenial than the former and some have fallen off the trail. Who said it would be easy to follow in the footsteps of giants?

Cyberspace if full of graffiti --the page down facility is my favorite key. Just as I would spend no time considering scribblings on the back of toilet doors so I totally disregard drivel and hobbyhorses. The ratio of gold to earth is very small and so to with gems on the internet. Your postings have been a rich vein to this searcher

So for all the walks and the commentary I am profoundly grateful to you and Another.

Dogs bark but the caravan moves on. I do hope we will have the pleasure of seeing the Trail updated again -- after all a teacher is only happy teaching however mindless some of the students appear.

In tribute
Shalom and God bless

Chrusos

Rockgrabber (7/8/01; 13:37:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 57683)
FOA & ANOTHER on leaving
TO the best teachers of reality I have ever come across, thanks. My own form of thinking at the ripe age of 27 is now forever changed for the better. For surely what you have shared has been has been wisdom of a kind, that is very much important. My best times come when I am alone with my thoughts gardening, thinking of the thoughts I have read you have shared. SO that is what I am going to go do right now.


Way off subject. A have been experimenting with fertilizers. Try AGGRAND, its a fish, kelp fertilizer that works great. Next would be Peruvian Seabird Guano. Aggrand is a 4-3-3, and Peruvian Seabird is a 12-12-3 (use it as a tea). Go Organic Gardening and Gold!

The Mid-East is getting "red hot". I will post some links later. I am off to the garden.

R Powell (7/8/01; 13:13:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 57682)
Journeyman's 57667
Having reread Journeyman's post, I conclude that he was warning us that there is evidence that newsworthy events sometimes happen which are not reported. He provides a link to such a story. The article suggests that "government media control" is filtering our news.
From the article, "This kind of quiet censorship, however, raises some disturbing questions."
Often I have lamented the lack of verifiable news concerning the activities of both the gold and silver markets. Over the counter (off Comex) trades and the privacy (lack of disclosure) policy of the London markets make the calculations of supply/demand fundamentals nearly impossible. With London's policy, Warren Buffet can shield news of sales or leasing of the 129 million ounces of silver he purchased some years ago.
That Journeyman provides proof of a lack of media coverage does indeed, IMO, enhanse the urgency for gold and silver ownership. In this regard, I find the article appropriate to the subject of metal ownership. That Trail Guide has somehow interpreted this post as an insult or as an offensive post has me confused.
Sir Trail Guide, your objection was emphatic and immediate as if a great insult had been endured. I suggest that, after much thought, if I can not even percieve the injustice, that perhaps you have overreacted. Also, perhaps I don't see what is right before me. Could you explain, please, the insult of Journeyman's post???
Thanks
Rich

Mr Gresham (7/8/01; 13:07:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 57681)
Megatron: Pick your spots; Ignore the noise
Amen, brother. Second that...

Mr Gresham (7/8/01; 13:01:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 57680)
More for Trail Guide
OK, I read your excerpts that offended Another. Sounds pretty bad, haven't had the wish or time to read those posts entirely. I can see the sensitivities, however.

This Internet instant-publishing-together is new stuff. It's not an academic journal where there is editorial review before it goes before all eyes. We have a great freedom here, and with that goes responsibility. I maintain that valuable posters here sometimes slip -- we all have our bad days (or months)! And some days, yes, we just kind of blather on (as now?) to fill space -- I mean there's always something NEW here anytime you come, right? We don't maintain a dedicated seriousness at all times; that's life!. Somedays we just need a little distraction, right? Dammit, we are doing PRETTY WELL OVERALL for the type of instant posting we are capable of. The responsibility level has been pretty high, I think.

Maybe this medium is just not up to Another's standards (I WOULD LOVE TO READ AT LEAST THAT FINAL POST YOU WERE WORKING ON!!!) of academic discernment. He may have had better experiences and treatment elsewhere that have formed his expectations. But we are not professionals here, either in finance, or financial writing. We do pretty well for just a group of FRIENDS who hang around and share our THOUGHTS, on both good days and bad. I think the Forum brings out close to the Best in many people, surprisingly so!!!

Maybe the 'Net doesn't work so well for this. But we -- you, me, Another, and FOA -- are pioneers here. No one has walked this way before. And how would we have met these two otherwise? Ain't gonna happen! In any structure of discussion, we'd need to make allowances...

The Forum's format -- a single-thread free-topic discussion -- places EVERY word under everyone's nose. A multi-thread discussion, where you get a daily menu of the threads receiving new posts, allows some better avoidance of that which is not desired. Not perfectly, but some more distance. Or in reverse, as when we wanted FOA to have his own separate thread so we could find his postings more completely. That's a technical solution option to the difficulties of a new medium.

I still think of it as you two volunteered (THANK YOU!) to lead a post-graduate level seminar in International Finance; the one I never would have gotten even if I had gone through to that PhD in Economics. In every class I ever sat in, there were students with all different attitudes about being there. (And their decorum was certainly different when the teacher was "out of the room".)

Teachers did not always get accorded the respect they were due then, either. But at least we got to act out our hi-jinx back in the dormitories -- here, there's no "out of class" time among us, no private activities or discussion. EVERYTHING is right out in public view, for better or worse. There is a trustworthiness to that fact that can be used to the good, I believe.

I think you need to consider the Gold Trail as your publication to the world, and background the rest of us as you see fit and necessary. Doesn't that provide you and Another the distance you need from objectionable postings? Much easier than trying to control all words and their multivarious interpretations.

I mean, I try -- I re-read before hitting the "Submit" button, for spellings and sentence discombobulations -- but I know I always see more after I hit it. Where's my ERASE button? Some days, even doing your best doesn't seem to be enough.

(Cynical aside: would we be having this discussion if last month's spike had gone through the statosphere? In other words, I'm feeling frustrated -- how 'bout you? Is it me, or just this crazy time we're living in?)

ANOTHER: If you read the other posts, then I hope you've read this one. I DO feel cheated: We were just starting to get acquainted. Given the limits of this medium, and our speaking from anonymities, consider the magnitude of what you've already accomplished. One thing I have been incorporating into my financial learning since encountering you two is -- guess what? -- PATIENCE. And, a long-term overview. I trust it will stay with me, even if you two go. Something I cannot control, even as I control my own impulsiveness.

Please consider this and take a larger overview of what's going on here...



megatron (7/8/01; 12:27:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 57679)
TrailGuide/Another
There are many things in the world an honest person does not have to stand for. Personal attacks are one of them. Things that assault your moral sensibility are another.

I would seriously reconsider your decision.

Your ideas and posts have benefited a small number of people here but will be FOR NAUGHT if you do not post the clear, concise explanation you had suggested you were about to do. By posting a concise version, you allow the small number here to understand your view and transmit it to hundreds and thousands of other people who could never be exposed to such rational thought. The ignorant cackling,prattling, and general socialist brainwashing that is everpresent in the world, can only be smashed through by the likes of yourselves and MK and many other posters who are viewing the decay and can see the forest for the trees.

You don't owe anyone a favor here, but for the sake of the posters who ARE interested, post the final shot. Give it everything you've got. Make it diamond clear. You will have done the world a favor, whether you care or not.

Once you've posted it, fine. Then you will no longer have to constantly defend yourself from the attacks of others who don't 'get it' If a lucid response/argument appears,
PICK YOUR SPOTS, why respond to every half-baked post?

A couple of people of your intellectual prowess should'nt blink at that kind of tripe. Your above that, so show it by ignoring the 'noise', and deliver what it is that you have set out to do man.

Buena Fe (7/8/01; 12:23:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 57678)
Change = a constant
"and walk away, it's over"! And I can tell you when he says it's over,,,,, it is over!"

____________________________________________________
I respect your choice, Thanks much...........very sad to ponder the loss of such insight and hard work from yourselves. (Shows my selfish side?) Especially as you say "Events are close enough to a conclusion to warrant this."

One conclusion brings another beginning.......of which you have contributed greatly to "understanding", thank you again. As the old cowboys used to say "Happy Trails" to you and yours!

Regretfully,
Buena Fe

PS "He said simply "tell them right now our position..."
Does that imply a TG-FOA msg#81?


auspec (7/8/01; 12:11:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 57677)
Let's Make Sure We're Not Jumping To Conclusions, Please
I once wrote a post to a guy named slingshot and asked him if he was going to use that thing on "Goliath" {you know the David/slingshot/Goliath connection}. If I understand what transpired thereafter, this post was taken as a direct afront to our friend, Trail Guide, because of the "giant" reference, where that was the furthest thing from my mind. Of course this all worked out to the apparent satisfaction of all, but it does show there can exist a 'sensitivity' to a perhaps 'poor choice of words'.
Before a terminal solution is applied to today's 'incident', can we [por favor] make sure we are not looking at a similar occurrence, which is simply a {See I almost used the word 'another' there} misunderstanding.
J'man, what say you? Is this a mere misunderstanding?
a

Mr Gresham (7/8/01; 11:43:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 57676)
Trail Guide/Another
What a sad thing to log on to today!

I wish Another could appreciate that you and he have been showing us some pathways to freedom that we never might have suspected. Making us think our own THOUGHTS.

There has always been a discrepancy between the Old World and the "New", among us "cousins" on both sides of the pond (whichever one), if that's where Another is writing from. Our ways of speaking are perceived as a little too "wild and woolly" for those whose cultural roots go back many more centuries. Our free speech and peculiar geography and history have often led to a paranoid distrust of foreigners by many. That is NOT the majority of us.

From one friend to A/another, I think you must re-think your impulse to flee a conversation where we are hampered by the medium, and cannot nor do not want to control the words of other valuable contributors. It is the ATTITUDE and INTENT that we each bring here that makes this a special place. We have appreciated yours; please consider ours in like manner. Gotta go ("Daddy, Dad-d-d-dy-yyyyyy!").. parent responsibilities. I hope I have said something you will consider, my friends.

ji (7/8/01; 11:27:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 57675)
Re: Trail Guide (7/8/01; 08:36:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 57668)
I can find nothing to indicate Journeyman is associating Another with" indoctrination" and "Nazi" thought.

I have greatly appreciated you and Another sharing your thoughts!

Clint H (7/8/01; 11:06:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 57674)
Trail Guide/ FOA/ANOTHER
I am a grandfather who feels that I finally have a chance to do for my family what millions are not able to do. This feeling all comes from what you and ANOTHER have taught me in the last three years. What you have taught I have regularly passed to my family and a few close friends.
Without your teaching I still would not have a clue. Thanks for what you have shared.
Eternally grateful!!!

ClintH

auspec (7/8/01; 10:44:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 57673)
FOA, ANOTHER, MK
This looks quite bad, possibly terminal. Deep regrets and sadness that this has occured, as the outcome is awaited. I wish to simply express my sincere appreciation for all the thought provocation that has been a result of these pages. This grand experiment can hopefully continue at the discretion of our gracious host by simply enforcing existing rules.
ANOTHER and FOA-- Appreciation to you both for your many fine efforts and insights. We still watch these markets unfold TOGETHER! Godspeed!
auspec

Peter Asher (7/8/01; 10:41:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 57672)
Trail Guide, Trail Guide, Trail Guide!

Can we take a careful, broad look at the whole picture?

First of all, I had the same shock you did as my opening 'fast-scroll' glommed onto the banal drivel from Mister Kirk's emboldened attempt to use this venue for his literary ascendancy to the high profit world of trashy talk. I see this abuse of MK's compliment has already been remarked upon. Perhaps by the time this is posted, Randy will have consumed enough caffeine to have confronted the task of consigning the piece to the Cyber-furnace.

Regarding J-Man's post, however, I can find nothing to indicate the insinuation you suggest. Being in the camp that is concerned with the possibility of the Forum becoming a 'Guru and Sycophant Show,' I don't believe that would have escaped me.

I took J-Man's post to be referring to media suppression of positive information and opinions regarding gold. I believe this was the precise subject of Michael's second or third contest.

TG; I am certainly not one qualified to cast stones, first or otherwise, so regard this as an attempt to describe an honest observation. There has been a trend, of late towards a dogmatic attitude in areas that are the expressions of opinion and prognostication as opposed to computations of data. Also, some of us here choose to build ideas in a joint venture format using our posts as building blocks to work towards the construction of a completed concept. We elect to respond to each other's questions and counterpoints in order to achieve a consensus. While, of course, no one is obligated to do so, the onsite environment of late has been discouraging to the 'bouncing' of ideas.

Sadly, some of the discussion you and Another are rightly lamenting the absence of, take place privately as a few of us seek our build our ideas in a more personal and therefore more cooperative environment. As an example, just before logging on this morning I had suggested to J-man that one of us post the following.

PA >>> > What do you think of the Idea that CB backing of gold is unnecessary tokenism???

J-Man >>>> I assume you mean gold backing for some currency or another? If so, it's completely BS unless said currency is directly redeemable in gold at some specific value. And clearly even when they claim it is, people better check
regularly - - - and not trust that just because it's redeemable today that it will be tomorrow.

CBs hold gold, though many are not "consciously" aware of it, to keep a "spoiler" for the use of gold in private transactions (they can dump and everyone knows that) and/or to cut down the available supply to the same ends.

They themselves complain that there's no good reason to keep gold because it doesn't pay interest, and largely because of storage and security costs incurred in storing it, is a drain on the bank. It is "vault cash" in the sense it produces no interest - - - though of course, they don't have to pay interest, just expenses, to hold it. Particularly given this context, it might be interesting to ask CB management just why they DO hold gold. Wonder what they're thinking these days?

In my opinion the safest way to accept gold substitute use is in a very transparent context where the gold on hand is easily verifiable by "users." The best I've seen, and impossible before, is the E-GOLD setup. Not infallible of course.

In the past, gold and paper didn't mix. We'll see how things turn out today once those inter-currency cross-border transactions begin to be replaced by private gold transactions. Will it catch on? How fast?
Will the man-in-the-street catch on? If so, how long will it take? Wish I knew!

But if/when prices in various places begin to be posted in gold, particularly for international transactions, that will be an important cluethat "we're on the trail." <<<

------

So, Trail Guide, how about we all work together to get the former Round Table essence back into the game. When I had a phone chat with Michael during the last crises he too lamented the loss of those days. I told him I considered that it was he who brought the Round Table into being, specifically by his active participation in the Forum. However, while he humbly demurred, I see he is attempting to return to the board as much as his own work load permits.

Allot of the off and undesirable subject matter has been code-blocked (Although IMO a few babies were thrown out with the bath water) and I thought we were making progress.
I believe we are at the point where we can make it or break it, so lets all give it our best shot.

Regards to Another and may the Golden Force be with us. ---P.


CoBra(too) (7/8/01; 10:35:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 57671)
The Silence of some revered Forum Posters, lately...
became rather deafening and as I have to admit I'm somewhat of a culprit too.
Not so much by stressing the fact, that some
unencumbered gold in the ground, would also be well worth to hold - and as I'm still sticking hazardously to some miners shares with well defined deposits - the merger or better surrender of HM to ABX has led to a revision of my overall portfolio strategy. Even if some proceeds from recent gold mining shares allowed for the purchase of extra physical, which was planned to be about 30%, may now even have grater weight.
No, more so by taking the odd detour from the main trail as in god and gold we trust and not in currency!

@ A/FOA - still hope to meet up with you on the trail.

Best regards - cb2

PS: MK - will call in tomorrow!



Gandalf the White (7/8/01; 09:50:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 57670)
Oh Oh !
Yes, FOA and ANOTHER, we can see why you both wish not to be associated with some of the posters that can not understand the purpose of the USAGOLD FORUM. May I suggest to our good friend MK,that perhaps your THOUGHTS could be continued "On the Trail" and the FORUM, (as we know it), be DROPPED ! Other forums accept such trash and non-related discussion, but this has gotten out-of-hand and must be stopped.
<;-(

escapethematrix (7/8/01; 09:13:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 57669)
FOA/Another.....

Please think about the silent, yet grateful majority who lurk and post here, and reconsider leaving USA Gold. There are many, many posters, and lurkers, who find your input invaluable and irreplaceable, who have watched, understood and waited for the coming events.

It's very disappointing that Randy and/or MK haven't pulled the plug on a few "loud-mouths" with limited perspectives and constant, off-topic posts.

Apparently one of these posters took a compliment from MK as a green light to make such pathetic post.

Again, if possible, please reconsider. I would not blame you for just wanting to post on the Gold Trail. Think of the many thousands who greatly appreciate your efforts, and don't focus on a few idiotic posts by limited fools.

To all: The FOA/Another commentary is the main reason I come here. I am greatly p.o.'d at the posters involved, and at management for allowing this to occur. If there is any chance at retaining "The Gold Trail", ...ALL YOU LURKERS BETTER SPEAK UP NOW, AND POSSIBLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!

In absolute disgust.........That's it for me.

Trail Guide (7/8/01; 08:36:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 57668)
I must go where "Ears do not bite"!

I don't believe it people, but I guess this was bound to happen!

I just spent several days writing a piece that explained our whole philosophy. This time in a clear positive manner that was easy to read. I had decided to stay on the GoldTrail page only and elevate our discussion into a real time dialog. Events are close enough to a conclusion to warrant
this. After a ton of asking and asking I finally convinced Another to write with me in his true academic / professional voice. Great! No more editing for me.

So,,,, he gets today's forum from me and what does he read?
====================================

------ Journeyman (7/8/01; 06:40:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 57667)Bet you never heard this story. Media control & Chomsky @ALL

------Chomsky's proof
By William Rivers Pitt
The United States is unusual among the industrial democracies in the rigidity of the system of ideological control ---'indoctrination,' we might say--- exercised through the mass media. --Noam Chomsky -------------

-----------June 25, 2001
--In the early morning hours of Thursday, June 22, 2001, a man named Jared T. Bozydaj took to the streets of New Paltz, New York, with an Intrac Arms 7.62 semi-automatic assault rifle. He fired pointedly at police officers, wounding one officer named Jeffery Quiepo in the arm. The shooting went on for several hours before Bozydaj was disarmed and arrested.-----------------

--------Clearly this kind of control requires an extensive network of influence coordinated from some central "authority." If they cover-up (by failure to cover) this sort of thing, what about economic news such as the current major turbulence in Chile, Argentina and Brazil? Etc. ----------

-----Reminds me of ---another-- illustrious information guru. ---------------

---"Don't tell them ... then it will not exist ..." -Chief Nazi indoctrination "Information Officer" -----

======================
OK,,,,,,and if that was not good enough, here is one more! Go on,, read the whole post? A few items below:
========================

working-kirk (7/8/01; 05:49:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 57664)

---Which bring me to the subject of Crack Whores.-------

-------If you are selling sex you can get a blow job between $10.00 to $15.00. A Fuck goes From $25.00 to $100.00. A blow job takes anyway from a minute to three, and sexual intercourse can take five minutes to 15.----------------

===============

OK,,,,,,, good job men! Perfect timing! On subject and driving home the quality of this venue! I complained in two of my last three post about such discussion and most everyone here seemed to support a "freedom of speech" that included all of the above! Journeyman gets to associate Another with" indoctrination" and "Nazi" thought.

All right,,, good stuff J-man!

Well,,,,,, Michael,,,,,, Randy,,,,,,, All,,,,, For all my insisting to "him" that this venue was the correct place to build an understanding of our future world of gold,,,, I guess I was wrong? I got back a quick retort and firm instructions. Instruction I will follow till hell freezes over because I will not lose my connection to Another. He said simply "tell them right now our position and walk away, it's over"! And I can tell you when he says it's over,,,,, it is over!

So,,,,,,,,, MK, please understand that it's not old FOA walking away mad this time. The big guy said we are done. I'm back to discussing this in private with select people that want to hear it and debate it in private. I'll stay in touch with you and discuss as you may want? After all this work, I guess it's my turn to feel low now. What a bunch of garbage!

Good luck all, I did my best to plant the seeds of thought. Own the wealth of gold and they will grow for you!

You will now "watch this new gold market" without FOA or Another.

Your friend and hard worker,(smile).
Last post, Signed off!



Hipplebeck (7/8/01; 06:06:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 57666)
One other thing
Who is NOT leasing gold? The US claims it is not. When the unwinding begins, who will be left out? The European central banks will have their hands grasped firmly around the necks of all who engaged in the leasing agreements with them. They will own these banks. Even the US based banks. Who is smart and who is not? Who will end up with all the gold?

Hipplebeck (7/8/01; 06:01:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 57665)
Ross L
Hi Ross,
Smart for the central banks who are leasing out their gold. I am absolutely sure they are smart enough to know what they are doing. They will own these banks and mines and whoever else can't return the gold. I don't think you can default on these guys. They have the power of the government behind them. It would probably mean losing all your assets and maybe even a jail term. The banks will have to do anything it takes to return the gold, including becoming complete slaves to the central banks. That is what they are after isn't it? Complete control.

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