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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/8/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

JA (05/08/00; 23:30:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 30147)
Stranger and JavaMan
Thanks for responding to my question on Alan Greenspan's remarks. Actually my boss asked me what I thought Greenspan was trying to say and I said I didn't know but there were some fairly bright people at this gold site I occasionally frequent and I would attempt to elicit some opinions.

Stranger

Things are well with me, thanks for asking. I have actually been down in your part of the country twice in the last month. Once to attend my daughters graduation from college and once on business. I had a little time to walk around down town Salt Lake prior to my flight back, the skyline is changing at a rapid pace. I even took the opportunity to ride the UTA train in the free zone. I guess they are still preparing for the Olympics, Little America building a 1000 room hotel?

On another note in support of your inflation scenario. I attended a conference on prescription drug management. Prescription drug costs are predicted to go up 17% this year.

JavaMan

On the name change.
While I realize people from all walks of life own Harley's including many executives, I still have fixated in my mind a "Hell's Angels" type with the tattoos and long hair. In reading your contributions, I always thought your powers of discernment were much too keen for the visual image my mind presents with the Harley Davidson moniker. Your name change will relieve my mind of this incongruent dilemma.


Elwood (05/08/00; 22:19:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30146)
Forgot to mention...
We PGAs are the cargo. I trust everyone has their moonboots strapped on. We can continue our walk from the Sea of Tranquility. (smile)

Elwood (05/08/00; 21:58:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30145)
SteveH (05/08/00; 21:02:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 30141)

Steve,
I think we're talking about 3 entities (1) Euro, (2) Dollar, (3) Market. Yes, the market will see that the Swiss metal isn't showing up so they'll pressure the price upward to meet their commitments. We're seeing that now. But the moonshot will require someone to "make their move." I see the Euro banks bringing their reserves into the game as the main engines, then the Arabs will supply the solid rocket boosters. However, it doesn't make sense for them to light the fires until they're convinced that no more metal will be delivered against those outstanding loans. As long as the Dollar forces keep fueling the tanks, why take off too soon?
Elwood

Chris Powell (05/08/00; 21:44:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30144)
GATA makes its case to Congress this week
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/451?
GATA's delegation arrives in Washington
on Tuesday and has appointments with
members of Congress and their staffs
on Wednesday.


To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email
and get them immediately so you don't have
to go look for them, send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com


lamprey_65 (05/08/00; 21:35:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30143)
Why GATA's Congressional Testimony is Important
Yes, I agree...the foxes watching the hen house, however...when the s*** hits the fan, they won't be able to say they didn't know of the problem.

ET (05/08/00; 21:17:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 30142)
J-Man

Hey JavaMan - I think the chickens are long gone! They're lording over a empty coop.

GATA's efforts are to be applauded but even best case will only expose what we already know - the money isn't backed by anything tangible like gold. I'm not sure that GATA convincing a public which should know better, will have much significance in the whole scheme of things. The public is a slave to debt and therefore is not in any position to argue the facts of the matter. The public does not want hard money as they are borrowed to the max. No Congress will advocate sound money.

ET


SteveH (05/08/00; 21:02:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 30141)
FOA says weeks...
"The dollar faction is having a hard time keeping paper gold under $280. Now that the world has seen how the WA is placing Swiss Euro Gold, the paper markets should start to discount physical. I think weeks are all the time the dollar faction has left before things begin to change!"












Elwood (05/08/00; 20:22:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 30140)
Trail Guide (05/08/00; 18:58:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30138)

"The Euro / BIS have positioned their official policy and reserve holdings to benefit strongly from a surge in value of "free gold"."

This goes to timing of the surge in gold's price. I have an idea that follows from our GoldTango analysis. The Euro/BIS folks would rather not see the gold price run until they've collected all they believe they can of their outstanding gold loans. Once their gold loans have been collected or defaulted that's when, IMO, they'll "make their move."

To do so beforehand would jeopardize both the dollar reserves they hold now and those outstanding gold loans. We all know what will happen once they start trying to exchange their dollar reserves for metal. What else could they ever exchange those reserves for?

Additionally, the American administration has GOT to know they're on the rocks. Why don't they default now, and get it over with? Why do they keep delivering their (our?) gold into a dead system? Could it be the election?


schippi (05/08/00; 19:20:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30139)
XAU Vs FSAGX Chart
http://www.SelectSectors.com/xaugld3mth.gif
Weak hands sold today, tomorrow Gold moves Up!


Trail Guide (05/08/00; 18:58:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30138)
Reply
Hello Topaz,
Thanks for reading and considering my offerings. Actually I don't expect or ask anyone to act or believe any of this. It's placed here to offer a view from another place and a future time. A way to see how some others interact with the ongoing money changes in our world today.

In your post:

---------Topaz (5/8/2000; 4:48:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30108) On this Trail: "I'll tak the High Road and Ye'll tak the low road" and we'll both get to "Scotland" (eventually). {;>)----------

Topaz,

To comprehend Another's Thoughts is to understand that you and he are not on the same road! Indeed, most if not the majority of Western gold investors will find themselves in Scotland to only then know they lost a great deal by ending up there. Watching the current gold markets, accepting their pricing mechanisms and using today's paper vehicles to play this arena will land most traders in Scotland but unable to buy gold. The physical price will have ran far, far past
whatever leveraged gains they made.

It's easy to see the leveraged traders by reading their verbal trails. They are completely fixated on "wanting" our current arena to work for them. All of their understanding and drive is centered on using the various forms of paper gold. Yet, this entire infrastructure and most of the mine equity that's built upon it has from the beginning been just another currency the dollar governments uses to take "Western minds" away from buying real gold. You see my friend, physical gold is where the real leverage is and the dollar faction have know this all along.

The entire marketplace we call the gold market is all based on a working dollar world. Everything that's paper and called gold has it's roots deeply leveraged not in gold but the dollar return on gold. There is not a paper gold investment in the world today that has seen a gold spike like the one that is coming. Likewise no investor has ever held or seen how these paper markets can cope with just
such a move. None!

I submit to you and everyone that will consider that profits from paper in this move will pale in comparison to holding physical.

You write:
--------It is apparent you perceive the current pricing mechanism (spot- futures) will implode and the POG reduced accordingly until the "penny drops" ie: Paper and Physical will go their separate ways--- Ok so far?

------You came to this conclusion several months ago after "enlightenment" from ANOTHER source. (we all remember the fracas that erupted resulting in Sir Stranger's sin-binning) Since then, the possibility of an upside explosion in POG has been totally discounted.-----------

Topaz,
Nothing about this has been discounted in our paper or physical gold price. We stand where we did almost a year ago when we (both of us) delivered this message. I expected then and even more so now that a default is near. The WA was the concrete fact that placed us "on the road" to super gold! It is indeed coming and will arrive in our time.

The price move (spike) last Sept. was certainly not anything close to the lock up move ahead. When the season is right and motivations strong enough: oil will begin it's move for the Euro, the dollar will begin it's crisis and our paper gold markets will completely fail from lack of bullion.

Your words:
------For the benefit of those who still cling to the hope of a steady rise in the price, can you offer your thoughts on what is now a contrary alternative to your scenario? Just for the record I would like to cite the reason I consider the Status-quo will be maintained throughout this transition:- Accepting that Au is the centre of the Fiscal Universe and as such, (has/is/) will be manipulated by
opposing interests, is it not to the ultimate benefit of both sides to effect a controlled burn to the upside thus not jeopardizing the perception of Fiat currencies as a whole? (Similar to a nuclear standoff- where no-one wins if all the cards are played) I mean to say- If all holders of paper Au find themselves getting shafted, it may well have the effect that these large players/ countries etc will
even turn away from all forms of Fiat settlement and go straight to Metal which is in no-ones interests -No? Whereas, a steadily rising price (in fits and starts) can be (once again) perceived as the inflation indicator it is. The outcome would be the same in the end--Yes? I hope this sufficiently explains my thinking and look forward to your comments.-------------

Topaz,

There is no contrary alternative! The game at play has been "in play" for some time and processed through several age groups. The American dollar has reached the end of it's ability to function as a world reserve currency. It's debt load has aged it past it's useful timeline. From where I consider the world, this is obvious and has been for a number of years.

Because gold has been "the world tool" that all used to kept our dollar alive for these last days, it will be the first item to fall away from being a dollar support. This paper gold tool will fail as the dollar transition proceeds. It will fail because it's illusion will be seen through physical default. Today, it's only a matter of time. This default will break the paper gold support tool and shut down
virtually all dollar gold markets.

Once this breaks, there will be no "Western Investors" with a mindset to any longer buy paper gold. Having been badly burned and watching physical gold soar, it will be a long, long time before anyone is ever again "sold" on the idea of "gold substitute holdings". Not even gold in the ground
will bring them back. New taxes will make gold mining nothing more than what it always was, a business.

The Euro / BIS have positioned their official policy and reserve holdings to benefit strongly from a surge in value of "free gold". Contrary to your thoughts, they will welcome this change, promote it and utilize it's wealth building perception for public gain. Just as we have talked here so often: for better or worse, digital Euros and super "free gold" will set the pace in Euroland and the world.

The manipulations of gold you speak of are "old stuff" and are today a "dying process" at the hands of the BIS. I think many OLD GOLD bugs will find themselves "broken down" on the side of the road as events surge past their backward looking understanding. The road where they stall will be the one that leads to your Scotland.

The future my friend is before us and those that can see it will be on a different trail. They will be "on the road with Free Gold"! The Gold Trail we walk today starts far in our past and has become a direction to a new future. Walk it with me and see the world in a new light.


Thank you

Trail Guide




JavaMan (05/08/00; 18:22:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 30137)
ET, Farfel...
Interesting and valid positions, both of you, and I would like to mention a third. The fact of the matter is that the foxes are watching the chicken coop and GATA is screeming, to the foxes, that someone is messing with the chickens.

This country could not get a conviction in the impeachment of Clinton, not for lack of evidence, but because Congress and the people lacked the resolve to do so. Same thing applies regarding the efforts of GATA. Now, if the markets and the economy were to tank, that could change everything.

ET (05/08/00; 18:05:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30136)
Farfel
Hey Farfel - I enjoy your stuff.

You wrote;

"Most importantly, IF YOU ARE A GOLD LONG AND FAIL TO SUPPORT GATA IN SOME
FORM OR ANOTHER, YOU DESERVE EVERY SINGLE PENNY OF LOSS YOU SUFFERED
AND WILL SUFFER IN THIS MARKET!"

I guess this means you think gold is going down in price. I'm not suffering any loss at all as I have as much gold as I had before.

GATA, bless their hearts, are fighting the paper battle. Many of us decided awhile back to fight this battle of wealth retention by buying up the physical. Gold's value will remain unchanged regardless of the price affixed in the paper market. Fundamentally, I view this market from the opposite side as GATA. They are worried about the price where I am concerned with the value. They are two entirely different things.

ET


Farfel (05/08/00; 17:39:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 30135)
GATA in Washington: HELP THEM!
If you believe that there is one scintilla of validity to the charges that GATA is making against the bullion banks, the US Treasury, etc., then get off your butts and do something about it now.

Fire a FAX/E-MAIL to a gold producer you are invested with and demand to know what action they are taking to support GATA. LET THEM ARRIVE TO AN AVALANCHE OF PROTESTS TOMORROW MORNING. If they are not doing anything tangible, if they are not using their clout to assist or their funds to make contributions, then let them have it! Tell them it is time to step down.

Fire off a letter or phone a politician you know (Democrat or Republican or Third Party) and tell them you want them to assist in setting up appointments for GATA execs in Washington. If they are reluctant or not interested, let them have it!

Get in touch with the CFTC and let them know your feelings in no uncertain terms.

The main thing is this: DO something tangible today or forever hold your tongue.

If you are not making some kind of tangible contribution, then you best never cry again about government subversion of the markets / civil liberties or Wall Street manipulation.

GATA makes their rounds tomorrow, and if you have not contributed at least 48 hours of your time in assisting them to bring transparency to these markets, then you are most likely a slacker, a weasel, and probably a precious metals short on top of it all.

Most importantly, IF YOU ARE A GOLD LONG AND FAIL TO SUPPORT GATA IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER, YOU DESERVE EVERY SINGLE PENNY OF LOSS YOU SUFFERED AND WILL SUFFER IN THIS MARKET!

Thanks

F*



MarkeTalk (05/08/00; 17:26:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30134)
Elian Gonzalez (Reprise)
I am sure everyone has an opinion about whether Elian should stay here or go back home. But did you hear the story about the Cuban "doctors" who were detained after they flew to Washington along with four of Elian's classmates? They were found to be carrying hallucinogenic drugs which were promptly removed from their persons before they were allowed entry. (They will be returned once they leave the country for Cuba.) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why they needed them. Let me guess: They wanted to party down with some Deadheads. Or perhaps Elian does not really want to go back home but needed some "persuasion." Now, this story tells me that our government is bending over backwards to please Fidel Castro. In my opinion, Elian is a done deal. He's on his way back home to Cuba. With or without the mind-altering drugs, Fidel has won this round courtesy of the Clinton administration. Maybe Bill will get paid in Cuban cigars for his cooperation. And aren't we supposed to be fighting a war on drugs? Then why not destroy the mind-altering agents as the cops do in other raids? Double standard here.

ET (05/08/00; 16:53:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 30133)
Gasoline
http://www.wsdinc.com/cgi-local/w_return.cgi?url=www.digisys.net/futures/
Anyone notice gasoline reached new contract highs today?



SHIFTY (05/08/00; 16:47:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30132)
Ponzi
Nasdaq 3,669.38 + Dow 10669.38 = 14,273.01 didvde by 2 = 7,136.50 Ponzi

Down 60.84 Ponzi Points !

Hill Billy Mitchell (05/08/00; 15:33:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30131)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: May 8, 2000

Rates for Friday, May 5, 2000

Federal funds 5.94

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 5.97
10-year 6.51
20-year 6.61
30-year 6.20

right-side up spread FF vs long bond = +.26%


SAMCAM (05/08/00; 15:18:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30130)
question to you ORO and/or Trail Guide
ORO you once mentioned diversifying and holding some physical in other countries. FOA you more than likely have done just that already.

I have question: If you don't have a property in your name in any country US or overseas, WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO STORE ALL THAT PHYSICAL!



Elwood (5/8/2000; 14:29:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30129)
Topaz (5/8/2000; 4:48:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30108)

Topaz, when a currency devalues it's never a slow burn. Look at that charts of the Asian currencies against the dollar during the crisis in 1997. When it happens it's like falling off a cliff.

Trail Guide, I think it's starting to sink in at my house. The Euro is a fiat currency, but not like any other fiat currency today. The ECB doesn't deal in the sovereign debt of the EU nations. That cuts the link between the banks and the governments, rendering Fed-style inflation impossible, at least for as long as they can politically maintain that non-relationship. But many questions remain. These nations tax heavily everything that moves and much that doesn't. If a free reserve asset such as gold is allowed in such a system it will endanger that system of taxation, and result in either tighter controls or a freer system with fewer taxes. Given the socialist bent of these nations and the political base that maintains it, can it be done? Looks like their giving it a good college try.
Elwood

ced_s (5/8/2000; 14:28:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 30128)
@Elevator Guy
So many people don't understand that Goldbugs are struggling to free PM's from their incessant manipulation. We also are acting on something out dated (principle, ethics and fair play). How many of us are furious about the lies and deceit peing pandered by "Our Government". Is this the government we voted for? Is this a measure of all of ur politicians?
I think not, we have been hoodwinked by Slick Willie, Rubin, Summers and Greenscam.
In our own way, we are protesting the guile of these persons who not only controll gold but also controll us. In lieu of a grassroots revolt at the polls we are voting for a "Free Market" in fact, not a fictitious market managed by the ESF and the megabanks with their billions and trillions of dollars. I wish to remain a citizen of the United States of America, not become a slave to the New World Order.
I am not a member of any of the Militia groups, and have no desire to be. I am simply a citizen who feels our right have a Representative Form of Government been usurped by the internationl banking sector and the wealthy. Thank God the Boy King's tenure in office is about over. Sometimes I think the only time he lies is when his lips are moving.

USAGOLD (5/8/2000; 14:22:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30127)
Advertising. . .
The three posts below will be removed. Advertising is strictly forbidden under the rules. Thank you for your co-operation.

I'm sure you fellows didn't mean any harm, but I get complaints almost immediately when someone puts up an ad.

YGM (5/8/2000; 14:16:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 30126)
Did You Know......
Gold Paid for & Built the Smithsonian Institution????
Well here's the rest of the story........


Headlines<Picture: My>Add to My Yahoo!Monday May 8 1:27 AM ET

James Smithson's Surprising Will

By LAWRENCE L. KNUTSON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Englishman's gold that founded the Smithsonian Institution seemed at times like a castle in the air - illusive, vaporous, hard to hold on to.

John Quincy Adams said the whole project was as exasperating as trying to extract something of enduring value from the fangs of a rattlesnake.

Exasperating, but worth the effort. ``To furnish the means of acquiring knowledge is ... the greatest benefit that can be conferred upon mankind,'' the former president wrote.

<Picture> Speak your mindDiscuss this story with other people.
[Start a Conversation]
(Requires Yahoo! Messenger) The puzzle took more than a decade to unravel. In July 1835, the American envoy in London received a copy of an astounding will, written by James Smithson. It bequeathed an estate valued at a then-staggering $500,000 to the United States.

Smithson was the illegitimate son of an English duke and a scientific researcher of some repute. He never crossed the Atlantic, had no known ties to the United States and died in Genoa, Italy, in 1829. His money came from the estate of his wealthy mother.

Smithson's will, triggered because his nephew and first heir had died childless, directed that his estate be used ``to found at Washington, under the name of the Smithsonian Institution, an Establishment for the increase and diffusion of knowledge among men.''

Rarely has a gift horse been examined so skeptically.

Congressmen argued there was nothing in the Constitution to permit taking such a gift. Some said democratic America should not be the steppingstone to immortality for any foreigner. Some called Smithson a ``whippersnapper vagabond'' acting out of ``posthumous vanity.'' Sen. John C. Calhoun of South Carolina thought it ``beneath the dignity of the United States to receive presents of this kind from anyone.''

But others said the nation should be honored that a native of a ``monarchial country'' should have made the United States the object of his benevolence.

Smithson found his champion in John Quincy Adams, who had served as the sixth president of the United States. By then a member of the House of Representatives, Adams persuaded Congress to accept Smithson's half-million dollars, a fortune in the late 1830s.

But the second set of questions proved more difficult: What on earth to do with all that money? What exactly did Smithson mean by ``increase and diffusion?'' And what kind of knowledge did he have in mind?

Smithson had not spelled it out. Lawmakers could only guess, and advance their own pet projects.

There were no lack of suggestions. Adams favored a national observatory, a ``lighthouse in the sky,'' to search out the secrets of the universe. Others wanted a national university, an agricultural school, a lecture bureau, an experimental farm, a publishing house for scientific tracts, a natural history museum, a chemical laboratory, a teachers college, a botanical garden, a library or a supply of inexpensive books for primary schools.

Adams opposed any use of the Smithson money for schools or teachers, saying American children should not be educated with ``foreign aid.''

He said he would rather see ``the whole money thrown into the Potomac'' than used in such a way.

Adams almost got his wish.
------------------------------------------
Smithson's estate had been converted into English gold coins, which were shipped to the United States in sacks, melted down and reminted into American $10 gold pieces. These were invested in bonds of two new states, Arkansas and Michigan.
------------------------------------------
It was a bad investment; the two states quickly defaulted on the bonds.

Some in Congress would have let the whole affair die at that point. Why should their constituents pay for the federal government's bad investments? they asked.

But others, including Sen. Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, said that having accepted Smithson's money, the United States now had a moral obligation to carry out his wishes.

The matter was settled by act of Congress in August 1846. The lost money was replenished by the federal Treasury. The Smithsonian Institution was established. It would include at first a museum for national collections, a library, a laboratory and an art gallery.

But the rest of its future was left open-ended. The institution itself would decide just how best to provide for the increase and diffusion of knowledge with a minimum of congressional intervention.

Adams had no doubt the Smithsonian had been set on the right path.

``To what higher or nobler object could this generous and splendid donation have been devoted?'' he asked.

TownCrier (5/8/2000; 12:02:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 30122)
It's a done deal
http://quote.bloomberg.com/pgcgi.cgi?T=markets_newsfeat99.ht=&ptitle=EMU%20Top%20Stories&touch=1&s=AORbosRTLRVUgU2Vl
Bloomberg reports:
"Euro-bloc finance ministers
pledged to boost the flagging single currency by speeding up
budget cuts and economic reforms, while declining to publicly
endorse the policy of buying euros in the open market."

If you've been following our commentary, you know that we hold to the view that this "bird of a different feather" will not likely be seen to engage in forex interventions. To do so would undermine what seems to be the very premise of the euro currency system...one that respects the sentiment of the free market. Where this benefits gold owners is that such a free market for euros goes part and parcel with a free market in gold. Without such a gold market, there would be no center to the free-floating currency universe.

The EMU FinMins did more today than to vow more rapid fundamental reforms and to poo-poo currency intervention. They also acted to finalize the initiative that increases the ECB's allowable foreign exchange reserves to 100 billion euros, double the value provided under the Maastricht Treaty.

It will be interesting to see how they put this new allowance to their advantage, and whether any announcement regarding inclusion of gold as some portion of any new reserve subscription by EMCBs will wake up or shake up the market.

TownCrier (5/8/2000; 11:00:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 30121)
We all had a nice hike upon the Gold Trail during the weekend
http://www.usagold.com/goldtrail/
Wanted to make sure you knew. The trail is still fresh...just follow the breadcrumbs at the link above to view the two new posts by Sir FOA.

VanRip (5/8/2000; 11:00:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 30120)
Another Online Exchange
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/archive/20000508/news/current/aa.htx?source=blq/yhoo&dist=yhoo
Seems to be a trend. Would gold producers benefit from such an arrangement?

ATLANTA (CBS.MW) -- Alcoa, Reynolds and six other metal companies said Tuesday they're forming an online exchange dubbed MetalSpectrum to streamline the $200 billion
business.

Promoted as an independent online marketplace, MetalSpectrum will cater to manufacturers, distributors and customers starting in September.

The move follows similar exchanges underway by the food business and leading auto makers.

Taking part in the venture are Alcoa (AA: news, msgs), Allegheny Technologies (ATI: news, msgs), Kaiser Aluminum (KLU: news, msgs), North American Stainless, Olin (OLN: news, msgs), Reynolds Aluminum, (RLM: news, msgs), Thyssen and Vincent Metal Goods/Atlas Ideal Metals.

The MetalSpectrum initial partners say they'll trade aluminum, stainless steel, copper, brass, nickel alloys and titanium "at significant volumes."

"MetalSpectrum is about the specialty metals industry getting closer to its customers," Alcoa chief Alain J.P. Belda said in a statement. "The industry will benefit from the increased market reach and reduced costs that electronic commerce offers."

MetalSpectrum's board is made up of  the initial partners, with Boston Consulting Group acting as an adviser. Alcoa's Robert Wetherbee was named acting chief executive

MetalSpectrum plans to announce a technology partner within two weeks.

Shares of Alcoa fell 1 7/16 to 63 7/16 on Monday following the news. Allegheny's stock rose 11/16 to 24 7/8, Olin fell 1/4 to 17 1/2 and Reynolds dipped 1 5/16 to 65 3/16.


TownCrier (5/8/2000; 10:45:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 30119)
groan....
"faily" === should be ===>> "fairly"

TownCrier (5/8/2000; 10:43:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 30118)
From Sir Black Blade's "Gold investment in S. Africa" link
On the topic of restrictions upon secondary listings by foreign companies on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange discussed with respect to mining companies in this article, the author says, "At the end of the day it's no big deal for these companies not being listed here – let's face it, who wants to raise rands when you can pull in dollars on the Nasdaq or Toronto exchanges?"

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... If we were to faily construct a list, surely it would look like this:

Gold
Dollars
Rands

Now imagine this quote being used in a better world: "At the end of the day it's no big deal for these national currencies to be poorly managed by their issuing and custodial governments - let's face it, who wants to raise dollars when you can pull in gold from Centennial at these prices?"

USAGOLD (5/8/2000; 9:40:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 30117)
Today's Gold Report: Quiet Start to What Could Be a Big Week
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
5/8/00 Indications
 Current
 Change
Gold June Comex
278.90
-1.20
Silver July Comex
5.08
+0.3
30 Yr TBond June CBOT
93~17
-0~01
Dollar Index June NYBOT
111.70
+0.50

Market Report (5/8/00): Gold opened weaker this morning after a quiet night overseas. Trading
was thin in both Asia and Europe. The dollar continued to drub its competitors in the forex
markets particularly the euro which is down another half cent in early trading. A joint statement by
European finance ministers promising to "speed up ongoing fiscal consolidation and structural
reforms" did little to stem the growing tide threatening to engulf the euro. The Commodity Futures
Trading Commission commitment of traders report had large speculators gold short positions up
another 12,191 contracts over the past two weeks -- a 27% rise. Traders said that gold could get a
boost if inflation concerns continue to escalate given that many investors regard it as an inflation
hedge, according to this morning's Bridge News report. All in all, it has been a subdued opening
to the week's festivities which features the Producer Price Index report on Thursday. Consumer
Prices will be reported next Tuesday.

Gold briefly rallied on the highly inflationary unemployment numbers on Friday (to the $282
range), then, according to this morning's Standard Bank of London report, encountered the
seemingly ever-present and mysterious wave of selling from an unnamed source(s) which
effectively killed the upswing. Coincidentally, the stock market enjoyed a equally inexplicable and
mysterious wave of buying on the bad unemployment numbers. We will see if the dominant
downward stock market trend reasserts itself early this week as we rev-up for Thursday and
release of the important PPI numbers. Even some watered down numbers are sure to have their
effect with the current sensitivity to inflation and the upcoming May 16 Fed Open Market
Committee meeting.

That's it for today, fellow goldmeisters. See you here Monday.

The May News & Views is now on its way and should be hitting your mail boxes over the next
few days. We think you are going to like this issue written during the weekend after the April 14
Wall Street Meltdown.

If you are looking for a pro-gold view of the various financial markets as well as a summary of the
events affecting the yellow metal, our monthly newsletter might be of interest. News & Views
-- Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious Metals has
been characterized as witty, urbane, intelligent and down-to-earth. Not to mention it's Free of
Charge If you want to keep up with gold, this is the way a large segment of the gold owning
public does it, and has done it for over a decade.

Just click link above and make the appropriate entries.

Black Blade (5/8/2000; 6:05:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30116)
Morning Wakeup Call!
Source: Bridge News
Investors mull legal action against TOCOM over palladium contract

Tokyo--May 8--Some Japanese private investors who have sustained losses from the palladium contract of the Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) are mulling a joint legal action against TOCOM, which started imposing strict market controls over the contract in February as a result of frenzied volatility, an investor source told Bridge News Monday. (Story .13328)

Black Blade: And I hope they win and end up forcing these criminals into bankruptcy too! Talk about rigged markets!!!!!!

Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold edges weaker after Friday's slip

Tokyo--May 8--Spot gold edged weaker Monday in Asia due to lack of buying interests after Friday's slip in the U.S. market, dealers said. A weaker U.S. dollar/yen throughout Japan's golden week holidays triggered some speculative buying in the Tokyo Commodity Exchange platinum market but unclear expectations of Russia's exports capped spot platinum prices in the afternoon, they said. (Story .2200)

Black Blade: Still no confirmed PGM deliveries! Yawn……

Russia's Rosbank says will buy 16 tons gold from producers in 2000

Moscow--May 5--Rosbank, one of Russia's leading operators on the precious metals market, has concluded deals with domestic producers for the purchase of 16 tonnes of gold and 145 tonnes of silver during the 2000 season. An official with the bank said these were the guaranteed amounts, while the bank's actual buying of the metals from producers would be higher. (Story .13111)

Black Blade: Don't laugh, but can you just imagine the ruble worth more that the dollar someday? ;-)


SteveH (5/8/2000; 6:01:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 30115)
WACO (protecting gold)
It is held by some that the BATF took the first shots at WACO.

By Cindy Loose Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday , April 29, 2000

Carlos Ghigliotti, who had been retained by a U.S. House committee to
help investigate the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco,
Tex., was found dead in Laurel under unexplained circumstances yesterday.


"We're investigating it as a homicide," said Laurel police spokesman Jim
Collins. Ghigliotti, 42, was found about 1:30 p.m. in the 600 block of
Washington Boulevard. His body was badly decomposed, said police. There
were no signs of a break-in or a struggle at the home, where Ghigliotti
ran his business, Infrared Technologies Corp., police said. An expert in
thermal imaging and videotape, Ghigliotti told the House Government
Reform Committee in October that his analysis of tapes at Waco indicated
that an FBI agent fired shots at the compound on April 19, the final day
of the siege--a view disputed by the FBI.

more at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38496-2000Apr29.html


Black Blade (5/8/2000; 5:50:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30114)
Branded Gold?
http://196.36.119.130/422567CB004DBB8F/(UNID)/DMKY-4JANHC?OpenDocument
One thought comes to mind here. Why don't the gold producers coop their product? Better yet - why don't gold producers vertically integrate their companies and serve the public with upstream (exploration and mining) and downstream (Bullion, Jewelry, and finished products and investment services) operations much like "Big Oil"? Why not make a profit on expanded margins on either end when POG is both either up or down and minimize risk? Lot of possibilities here!

Black Blade (5/8/2000; 5:41:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 30113)
Gold investment in S. Africa.
http://196.36.119.130/MGGold.nsf/Current/422567D9004530DFC12568D8005384BD?OpenDocument
Who woulda thought that purchasing gold in SA would be a problem? Seems that some SA producers are ready to challenge the law!

Topaz (5/8/2000; 5:32:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 30111)
@All re: Sir Dollar Bill

I feel a bit like the Kid who got to school early and Graffitied the Blackboard this Morning, however:-

The opinions expressed by Sir Bill are exactly those one would expect from 99.99% of the Western non Au holding population.
We who choose to measure our lifes efforts in other than Currencies are sorely in the Vast Minority- cripes! We don't even rate "Minority Group" status. Woe betides us when all that is discussed here comes to pass.
Sir Bill-- know you are not alone.

Black Blade (5/8/2000; 5:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30110)
Reason GOLD dropped last week.
http://www.stockcharts.com/commentary/clive/Clive20000502.html
SA gold producer Goldfeilds fell last week while other SA producers held their own. The link above tells the story.

Hipplebeck (5/8/2000; 5:12:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30109)
on tv last night
I watched questions for the prime minister Tony Blair on c-span. It's on every Sunday night.
On of the members asked for a report on the nations reserves since the bank had sold off the nations gold and converted some of the reserves to Euros. He also said "And are you aware mister prime minister, that in that same time frame the Germans have tripled their gold reserves from 10 billion to 30 billion" (I assume he is talking about euros here).
So I guess Germany is one of the central banks buying gold.
How much is 30 billion euros in gold?
Tony Blair deflected the question as European bashing and said some are selling and some are buying gold and that he is perfectly happy with the situation.

Topaz (5/8/2000; 4:48:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30108)
Trail Guide

On this Trail: "I'll tak the High Road and Ye'll tak the low road" and we'll both get to "Scotland" (eventually). {;>)

Good evening Sir:
As I have not addressed you directly before, just let me say how much I appreciate your efforts to provide thought provoking and informative commentary to all those who gather here --- a big effort indeed!!----- now to matters at hand;
It is apparent you perceive the current pricing mechanism (spot- futures) will implode and the POG reduced accordingly until the "penny drops" ie: Paper and Physical will go their separate ways--- Ok so far?
You came to this conclusion several months ago after "enlightenment" from ANOTHER source. (we all remember the fracas that erupted resulting in Sir Stranger's sin-binning) Since then, the possibility of an upside explosion in POG has been totally discounted.
For the benefit of those who still cling to the hope of a steady rise in the price, can you offer your thoughts on what is now a contrary alternative to your scenario?

Just for the record I would like to cite the reason I consider the Status-quo will be maintained throughout this transition:-
Accepting that Au is the centre of the Fiscal Universe and as such, (has/is/) will be manipulated by opposing interests, is it not to the ultimate benefit of both sides to effect a controlled burn to the upside thus not jeopardizing the perception of Fiat currencies as a whole?
(Similar to a nuclear standoff- where no-one wins if all the cards are played)
I mean to say- If all holders of paper Au find themselves getting shafted, it may well have the effect that these large players/ countries etc will even turn away from all forms of Fiat settlement and go straight to Metal which is in no-ones interests -No?
Whereas, a steadily rising price (in fits and starts) can be (once again) perceived as the inflation indicator it is.
The outcome would be the same in the end--Yes?
I hope this sufficiently explains my thinking and look forward to your comments.

Topaz


Topaz (5/8/2000; 2:17:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30107)
Thai re: Autos

HI Thai,
That previous post reminded me of an amusing tale revolving around Cars, Animals etc.
Mitsubishi have been active in the Auto Manufacturing/Sales business here in Oz for many years.
One of their early efforts was the "STARION"
Of course all and sundry were mystified as to the origins of such a percular name until it was revealed that- that's how the Japanese would pronounce the English word for a "Male Horse" <smile>
Their products nowadays are 1st class and consistently win Car of the Year awards in many catagories.

Just thought I'd share.

and Oh.. AH.. GO GOLD!!

elevator guy (5/8/2000; 1:43:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 30106)
@ Dollar Bill
Ok, Dollar Bill, you just sit back in your easy chair and watch Bill Murphy get the bruises for fighting for gold.

You needn't lend a hand, because your internal value system puts you above such endeavor.

Thank you for your tireless efforts toward the liberation of gold, which is synonymous with the liberation of truth, which sets all men free, only to the disdain of those entrenched in evil works.



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