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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/7/2006
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Beer Man (6/7/06; 23:17:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 145107)
$600.00 gold
Good point on $600 gold ...... I have heard the case made for $450 .. to $30,000 ...... rarely is your case made.. $1,500 range is good !

Titan (6/7/06; 22:47:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 145106)
$850 gold?
A couple of messages earlier today referenced $850/oz. gold in 1980 and how that would be eithout over $2100 adjusted to today's dollars.

While I'm as ready as the next guy to see gold go much higher than it is today, I like to be careful about using the $850 figure.

Here's why: if you look at where the price was just one week before and then one week after the January day it hit $850, in both cases it's the lower 600's! It was just $850 for one day.

I'm not sure what the point of that benchmark is. Wouldn't it be better to talk about what $600 then would be in today's dollars instead?

Goldendome (6/7/06; 22:03:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 145105)
Low is high, but high will be high.
Rap: Do you suppose that in a month in the future that gold goes from, say: $625 to $700, that you will be told that their last mark to market for taxes was $625 (that's what you'll be taxed on) but they will sell it and your proceeds will be $700/per? Ha! Right. At that point the mark to market will probably be on the day you're selling at the higher price--not a look back number! Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a maximum tax plan on exiting these programs. Best of luck.

Flatliner (6/7/06; 20:22:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 145104)
GLD shows physical holding steady.
http://streettracksgoldshares.com/us/value/gb_value_usa.php#2
05 Jun 2006 355.53
06 Jun 2006 355.53
07 Jun 2006 355.53

It would seem, sheople are waiting.



RAP (6/7/06; 18:27:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 145103)
"fair market price"
With all the talk about gold IRA's and the uncertainty in the whole world, I decided to get the gold in my IRA out of the governments eyes and in to mine.
So I made all the preparations and even faxed in the request to take possession of 2/3 and was going to sell 1/3 to pay the taxes. I forgot to ask what the "fair market price" was for the gold I would be getting, so I called back and they said there last mark to market price was on May 13th........?? That would mean I would be paying taxes on gold at $725+ spread and be selling gold at $621. Obviously I put a stop to it, and told them to let me know when the "fair market price" was fair.
My best talent is poor timing!


USAGOLD Daily Market Report (6/7/06; 18:26:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 145102)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

WEDNESDAY Market Excerpts

June 7 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed at a seven-week low Wednesday, as the dollar continued higher on expectations of a June rate increase and hopes for a break in the diplomatic impasse over Iran's nuclear program.

The COMEX August gold contract closed down $2.10 at $632.60, its lowest finish since April 24.

On Tuesday, the front-month gold contract closed down $14, continuing the selloff sparked by comments from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on rising inflationary pressure. Bernanke's remarks were viewed as a signal of further rate rises, sending the dollar higher against its major rivals. The trend held Wednesday.

Peter Grandich, editor of the Grandich Letter, suggested that investors may want to seize recent weak metals prices as a buying opportunity.

"Most of my technical indicators have now returned to the bullish side or are at least no longer very bearish," Grandich said. "Reward now equals or surpasses risk, going forward $50 lower and up to $500 higher is worth risking being aggressively long again."

Kevin Kerr, editor of Global Resources Trader, a newsletter published by MarketWatch, said he also thinks the recent weakness will not last long.

"The residual effects of Mr. Bernanke's not-so-subtle hints are putting gold in a position to test lower levels even from here, but that may be very short-lived," Kerr said.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Sundeck (6/7/06; 17:45:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 145101)
Greenspan on oil
http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-06-07T194044Z_01_N07183197_RTRIDST_0_ECONOMY-GREENSPAN-ENERGY-UPDATE-3.XML
The new frankly spoken Greenspan speaks out on petroleum...

Boilermaker (6/7/06; 17:03:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 145100)
The new Game
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/bulletin/0406assets.htm
How does the US deal with a "New Deal" in global monetary and financial restructuring? The first thing I looked at was what financial cards does the US hold. A visit to the Fed Reserve site says not much in the way of foreign currencies and Special Drawing Rights ($54 billion). This is less than one month's trade balance deficit, and puts the US down in the ranks of the least developed nations. There is an entry for $11.044 billion in gold shown at $42.22 per ounce that works out to be 261.6 million ounces of gold. If this stuff is really still there the Fed has about 1 ounce per citizen. Even at today's price it would only be worth $162 billion, about 2.5 month's current trade deficit. If much of this gold has been leased/swapped/sold then the US Fed is really naked.

Assuming the best, ie., that the Fed still has all the gold, then the US should want that stash to be upgraded by several orders of magnitude so as to be able to redeem the trillions of $ that are held at home and abroad and still retain a significant stash of gold. Any number less than $10,000 per ounce wouldn't get the job done. Of course we could mortgage New York City and get a little more time to play the game.

The $ is toast. Most everyone (who can add and is not part of the $ fan club) knows it and is scrambling to buy into the new chips, gold. The US casino is going broke and its markers are tanking. Get yourself some new gold chips and stay in the game.

In the end the US will call their fiat markers and revalue their gold markers. This is likely to happen quickly. Be prepared!


Flatliner (6/7/06; 13:47:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 145099)
Fishing?
@A fresh wind beneath our wings

Some of us clearly have no bait on the hook with no chance of catching anything worthwhile. When MK goes fishing, he sets the hook, plays the sport, but makes you guess at the size of the price and then commits to reeling it in at some later time.

Put yourself in Iran's position and think as if you're playing a chess game that your very life depends on. At least half the pieces have been cleared from the board leaving very few options remaining.

Will a country that has little direct exposure to the empire pay the emperors taxes or not? Every other country watches with quite awe not wanting to get caught up in a firestorm while haven already stocked up for the winter.

Remember, the revocation of security means oil will bid for gold. Watch the security issue, IMHO, that is the next move.



968 (6/7/06; 13:31:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 145098)
@ Sir MK msg#: 145095
A Trail Guide once laid out that MTM for CB goldreserves is the key...

Is that also your opinion ?

Goldilox (6/7/06; 12:18:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 145097)
Another reason to watch Iran
While the oil pundits often remind us that Saudi Arabia is still the leading oil producer, others (in the Simmons mold) remind us that the extraction methods employed in Saudi Arabia (water and steam injection) could accelerate their production EOL (end of life) estimates dramatically.

If BB or anyone else could locate any reliable estimates of the proliferance of EOL accelerating technologies used in Venezuela and Iran, a better estimate of Saudi Arabia's continuing OPEC leadershp could be assessed.

Russia, while not an OPEC member plays a significant role, as well, especially with their proximity to hotly contested Caspian sources.

And we should not leave out China's interest in China Sea reserves, especially since half literally the US Navy has been standing guard over them since 2004.

Oil is still the most necessary resource for industrialization, as all other energy sources play a not-close "second fiddle" to the monetary interests of TPTB.

Goldilox (6/7/06; 12:02:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 145096)
Gold is all about Iran
@ MK,

Really astute observation, especially when te caviat that it is NOT about enrichment is added.

Iran is the last remaining major proponent of the Islamic Gold Dinar, with Iraq under the US $ jackboot and Indonesia and Malaysia still digging out from under tsunami damage.

What Iran represents is the ability of any lesser players to dissent from US$ hegemony. Even Chavez and the South American populists are not so brash (in action, at least) as to suggest the US $ is toast, but the Islamic Gold Dinar flaunt FIAT collapse right in the globalists' faces.

MK (6/7/06; 11:48:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 145095)
A fresh wind beneath our wings. . .
Certain Hall of Famers and one Trail Guide laid out the message a long time ago. Now we have certain proof. With the confirmation, much has been left on the table -- much more needs to be said, and, if you look, has already been said. A friend of mine in the inner reaches of the mega trade gold system mentioned to me recently that "this whole market is all about Iran." And he wasn't talking about the tensions over uranium enrichment by itself. There is an explosive situation developing behind the scenes with gold. Iran is a marker, a fractal, a template, a warning.

But of what?

This could be a fresh wind beneath the wings of the gold market at some flex point down the road. More some other time.

Goldilox (6/7/06; 11:23:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 145093)
Life's pleasures
@ Clink,

Supermarket shopping is one of life's great "pleasures', especially with "member" and bulk pricing and all the other confusing amenities they have added. to the experience.

The most important thing is to pick the proper time of day - after the crowds, but before the meat an deli counters close!

As for "Walkies", that particular tube was slated for some unexpected major expenses, as cash flow was miserable that month. Rest assured I got a much better return than offered by the pawn broker.

contrarian (6/7/06; 11:10:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 145092)
Clink--Coins
Clink--
Your supermarket has some nerve to charge for being able to collect pennies (pre-1982) to then sell for a meltdown profit!

Commerce Bank at least doesn't charge for this opportunity, as you can bring in your change to their machine and get full redemption.

Clink! (6/7/06; 10:52:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 145091)
@Goldilox
Weird ! I know we all like to look at the shiny, to fondle it perhaps or even clink it (but not so hard you leave marks !) but isn't taking them walkies a bit extreme ? LOL!

From what I gather, the people most interested in getting "dead" small change back into circulation would be in the US Treasury.

I didn't know that machines like this were in common operation. (I live a simple, sheltered life - I earn the money and my wife spends it - so I don't get to supermarkets except on my way home when I remember that I forgot to put more beer in the refrigerator.

C!

Goldilox (6/7/06; 10:31:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 145090)
More recycling
@ Clink,

I'll bet he would "happily" trade you $50 face value minus a "service charge" for your Gold Eagles, as well. HA HA!

Just for giggles, I stopped by a pawn shop downtown the day that gold hit $550 a couple months ago, and asked for their buy price on Krugs, holding a tube in my hand.

He told me $500 - I said, "Good Day!"



Goldilox (6/7/06; 10:25:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 145089)
Coin recycling
@ Clink,

Available at most supermarkets.

Someone has a strong campaign inititated to collect the more valuable coins for paper and charge the customer for doing it. Must have been a banker in his previous life.

scottp999 (6/7/06; 09:49:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 145088)
@Alex
Your conclusion is right. Called my commodities friends this morning @ 620 for an order. Up or down I am buying as much as I can until I a priced out of the market.

Toolie (6/7/06; 09:47:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 145087)
What is gold worth?
At $1000/oz., the Chinese Central Bank could by the stash that the US claims to have 3 times over, each and every year.

Clink! (6/7/06; 09:41:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 145086)
Whaa.. ?
When I got home from the supermarket last night, I discovered that a card with the following text had been placed in my bag :-

Redeem your coins for CASH !
Bring your jar, bag or bucket of loose coins to xxxxxx and pour it into our self-service coin center. You'll get an instant receipt for the total (less 8% service charge), which you redeem at Customer Service. It's fast and easy cash !

C! Maybe I'm missing something but -
1/ I thought coins WERE cash.
2/ 8% for what service ?
3/ 1cent pieces are now worth either 2.5c or 0.9c approx (as of a couple of weeks ago) and the nickel costs more than 5c to produce.
4/ The redemption is either in electronic or paper form (Hey, I'm tempted to put in, say, 10 1c pieces just to see how they make change !)

This looks like an example of Gresham's Law to me - bad money driving out the good. Anybody else seen this kind of thing ?

C!

Goldilox (6/7/06; 09:11:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 145085)
Net Grab
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
snip:

The corporate mind controllers of corpgov working through CONgress (you don't think CONgress gets all that bling for nothing, do you?) have a chance as early this Friday to steal the internet from the people. You might get off your butt and make a few calls and send some emails...or does fascism and corporate totalitarianism sound like something you'd like to live under? Freedom won't be free once the corporate revenue hacks start taxing speed - look for pay email to follow and then full up licensing.

I'd offer that we're in Depression 2 and just like the FCC was "invented" to regulate radio in the 1930's Depression, we look for an Internet Commerce Commission to show up about any minute now, as the evidence mounts that the tech bubble burst of 1929 was our modern-day 1929.

-Goldilox

My first thought was that this as too far afield, until I rethought it in terms of both gubmint revenue and information control. Two birds with one stone, so to speak, in a rapidly deteriorating socio-economic environment.

Alex (6/7/06; 08:53:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 145084)
Bubble Gum Machines
This is just a preposterous thought that comes to mind, there appear to be many people who would take great delight if all bubble gum machines were refitted to accept a one ounce au coin to operate a penny gum-ball machine. The world is upside down and somewhat screwy that gold even has to fight back from these levels.

If things were "right," the price of gold would shoot over night to the $2,000.00 level to make up for past supression and CB sales (what have you - GATA, et.al.)

To bring it to these levels is absurd in my mind, but, here we are. It can only be looked at as a buying opportunity for both au & ag.

Just a simple thought.

Alex

Alex (6/7/06; 08:43:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 145083)
Inflation Adjustment
The gold price is supposed to be at $2,100.00 and some change, just with inflation adjustment from the old highs of $850.00.

One could infer, a double is overlooking quite a bit of inflation. Everything can go up in price except the barometer. I'll take that suit of clothes for these here 20 ounces of au!

Alex

Thoreauly (6/7/06; 06:45:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 145082)
What price gold in a new gold standard?
Hmmm. If van Eeden's right and we can only look forward to a doubling, at best, of the current gold price, then what need would TPTB have to suppress it? Couldn't they manage an orderly climb to, say, $1,200 and let the world transition back to a gold-backed franctional reserve system? All fiat would be devalued by 50% of so, but that would essentially be that, no?

Or would history merely repeat itself as fractional reserve once again ran amok and inflation once again became the order of the day?

Even so, couldn't TPTB buy a lot of time by going this route?

I have my thoughts but would like to weigh them against those of the forum.



Sundeck (6/7/06; 05:07:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 145081)
What price gold in a new gold standard?
http://www.moneyweek.com/file/13562/how-high-would-gold-rise-under-a-new-gold-standard.html
Another worth-a-read from Paul van Eeden...

:-)

Sundeck (6/7/06; 04:48:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 145080)
Discussion on the end of the yen carry trade
http://www.moneyweek.com/file/13563/where-should-you-put-your-money-as-the-carry-trade-ends.html
...apparently a fairly delicate situation...worth a read and a think.

:-)

Knallgold (6/7/06; 01:22:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 145079)
ANOTHER CB buys Goldcoins
http://www.ecb.int/press/pr/wfs/2006/html/fs060606.en.html
Sounds like when I buy 1/10 coins for finetuning.

The -12million,is that a net figure,or alternatively is the buying by a non WAG bank?

"In the week ending 2 June 2006, the decrease of EUR 12 million in gold and gold receivables (asset item 1) reflected the selling of gold by one Eurosystem central bank (consistent with the Central Bank Gold Agreement of 27 September 2004) and the purchase of gold coins by another Eurosystem central bank."

Topaz (6/7/06; 01:18:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 145078)
Dollar/Gold.
http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=GC&o=100/DX&a=D&z=610x300&d=LOW&b=LINE&st=
If you take the time to fiddle with the various timeframes on the accompanying comparison Chart you will conclude that, over the last 18mth's PoG has been in lockstep with the Dollar for approx 2 MTH's.
We do NOT have an inverse Gold/Dollar thing going on anymore period!
The current weakness is, to my way of thinking, a healthy pull-back prior to an all-currency run-up and is part and parcel of the freemarket Freegold move so often discussed hereabouts.
Lets watch.

Great promo below guys ...shouldn't the Green arrow in 2006 be pointing to 12:15 instead of 2pm though ;-)

Knallgold (6/7/06; 01:11:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 145077)
Implementation of a bold spike
PR wise,it would be best to make it after it is confirmed the Gold Bull is over.So I take comfort in the recent FT article.

We can only speculate by what means it could happen,Flatliner suggests oil bidding for Gold.I would guess a carefully worded statement by the CB's-if the recent public info from ECB circles about leveraged hedge funds posing a big risk on the financial system was a preparation?I mean removing a generally perceived risk will be seen as good,for example eliminating all leverage on Gold.Just a raw thought.

As for the timing-several requisites are coming together,the slingshot is being loaded again,if the past parabole is an indication then the next one will be BOAH!'seasonality this fall,a susrprise move for most (as the GoldBull is over-see above),plus the wavers say the next one up is the (biggest) C (but I'm no expert).Golds Biorythmus in a perfect condition.

Again to cite PandaGold: "most well be caught napping when the big one hits".

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (6/7/06; 00:04:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 145076)
Be emboldened to buy during the seasonal June-July bargains!!
http://www.usagold.com/analysis/doldrums.html





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