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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 12/7/2005 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Goldilox (12/7/05; 23:12:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 138924) Topical restrictions I was still under the impression that 24-7 "Open Topic" was declared a few months ago. If that was rescinded and I missed it, I heartily apologize. I will stay closer to home.My sole attempt was to offer evidence that those who flagrantly manipulate us to collective financial ruin are not in the least bit above other related heinous manipulations, as money is but a means to an end for their ambitions. Watching Wolfowitz on CSPAN right now. He calmly said: "although the charter of the WB states that it is apolitical, I must interpret that differently." Gandalf the White (12/7/05; 22:41:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 138923) WOWSERS <;-) SOMETHING is going on behind THE curtains.We have not seen anything like this move in GOLD before !AND, you can not believe what I am NOW seeing in my CRYSTAL BALL !!HANG on for the RIDE !"TO THE MOON, Alice !"<;-) David Linkley (12/7/05; 20:49:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 138922) What's with this gold bull? The New Zealand dollar and US consumer credit today both went splot! Oil and natural gas are firming up into the cold season, Snow said the US budget deficit will worsen in 06', and I'm hearing from people in the trenches of home and auto sales that business is brutal right now. Former President Carter said today he didn't think that US troops would ever leave Iraq. News articles from Asia mention increased central bank purchases of gold especially Russia. The COT remains very short and one can only imagine what sort of exit strategy may exist if gold keeps grinding much higher. The bottom line is the world economy is slowing, countries are racing each other to devalue their currencies and Bernanke and his helicopters are waiting in the wings. I'm glad all of those ECU gold sales are saving the world, I'll sleep better tonight. RAP (12/7/05; 20:23:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 138921) YGM -Gandolf is hiding his eggs in these cartons http://www.grunt.com/images-bs/Gold%20on%20pallet.jpg Basket #3 OvS (12/7/05; 20:19:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 138920) WTC I haven't joined this dis-cussion and I think it wiseto wait for the weekend forthis subject. But since theweekend crowd probable isthin and perhaps differentI'll just have a few wordsand then shut up about this.When even one of our illustri-ous members from overseas hasdefinite conclusions about it,I think it worthwhile to askfor caution.One of the most damaging infer-ences are made of the allegedfact that someone a few daysbefore the disaster went shortto the tune of millions ofoptions on the two airlinesinvolved; and no investigationestablished who. It's not pos-sible not to trace it down.I'd say they did and then were& are in the position to black- mail those to the tune of mill.$of oil, gold, whatever...Bush, Rumsfeld, and others wouldnever condone or think up suchmonstrocity. Believe me, theyjust don't have that glint in their eyes. Of course, there could be a secret 5th columnwithin the government doing suchevil without those above them.Unless they are uncovered I'dbe skeptical of the most outra-gious conspiracy accusations...As I said, that is the fist andlast time I'll speak on this topic. Back to what inspires us,and to the means (G & S) to letus dream and do our contributionto this most phantastic planetand universe. Cheers. OvS PRITCHO (12/7/05; 20:13:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 138919) "Dominate. Intimidate. Control." -- - - - http://www.reason.com/0402/fe.jb.dominate.shtml A compelling read for anyone contemplating flying to or from the USA. - - - Amazing that they get away with it. Sundeck (12/7/05; 19:41:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 138918) The golden road... Ahhh...yes,Sir Ned, Is this golden light of Dawn not grand?Watching shadows pass gigantic on the sand, As we take the Golden Road to Samarkand.(...with apologies to J E Flecker.);-) mikal (12/7/05; 19:24:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 138917) World weary of smoke and mirrors? http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=3124 The premise of this analysis seems to lean on the revived hope that people will tire of war, that government is incapable of subterfuge, that blind self-righteous indignation and premature, knee-jerk reactions are American as baseball and apple pie, patriotic and good for the world.This is like saying that woman should never have been given the right to vote or hold office or that every inch of the earth should be fouled by internal combustion engines before we go to alternative tech. DUH!NUKE IRAN OVER BOURSE? - 'Prophet Talk' - Anthony Wile - 12/06/05 - FMNNHowever serious the assumptions and implications for the IMS, money and human life in this, please consider too that martial law courts operate today, as in admiralty law and corporate law. And that we need a national bank(not central) to discharge our debt, establish a sovereign republic and honest weights and measures (reputable and reliable currency and codes). Sometimes the hardest standard to maintain is the simplest. Ned (12/7/05; 19:00:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 138916) ...and GOLD NEWS !! Spot adds another buck and some cracking $517Feb gold cracks $520 at 521 & changeLondon PM fix sets new 24 year record.....and my favorite....HUI 2-year resistance of 258 was smoked today settling at 260 and change.Tomorrow could be a VERY, VERY exciting day. Ned (12/7/05; 18:56:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 138915) @ Goldilox I should save this for the weekend but for Randy's sake I will keep it short....perhaps we can continue this on nthe weekend.Believe you me, I have studied this 911 business and in particular the collapse of the 2 WTC towers. I am not a physicist or an engineer but I have eyeballs so I need to ask one question.Focusing on a good, clear clip of either building one can see that the plane has damaged several floors. When the building begins its collapse the floors above the damage simutaneously fall as one onto the damaged floor(s). It is then the building collapse floor by floor. There is a floor by floor momentary pause. Watch for these 2 aspects.Here is my question. All the conspiracy advocates claim that the floors were rigged with bombs. Ok, so here is the question that I have asked a hundred people and no one has answered.The floors above the damage fell as one but the floors below fell one by one so how did the bombers know which floor(s) the plane was going to hit so as to 'arrange' the 'orderly' demolition??Talk to you on the weekend !! OvS (12/7/05; 18:54:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 138914) Very indelicato Knight Keister Meister...Easy does it, please... TownCrier (12/7/05; 18:26:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 138913) Goldilox, Off-Topic King... Please touch your toes with a slight bend at the knees, dear sir, as I prepare to polish my boots with your keister.R. Buongiorno! (12/7/05; 18:13:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 138912) Sir Goldilox--yarns being spun... Yes, JP-4 is closer to my charcoal fluid than to aviation fuel....but if you are comparing the weight of your turkey on your weber to the WTC..I must say with respect uh, not the same. (Unless your turkey weighs much more than mine.) Also, steel does not have to melt? to lose its strength...others? And the towers may have had some combustables inside, which may have contributed to a blast furnace effect ...think of a chimney.(Way out of my depth already, and those who question, (whatever) myself included, are no more or less patriotic than others...IMHO.)Glad to see you also like Webers--last count, I have six of them...wonderful little friends, they are!Cheers!Buongiorno! Goldilox (12/7/05; 17:48:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 138911) Theory quelching http://www.jmccanneyscience.com @ Bongiorno and Max Rabbitz.There have been more solid refutations of gold market manipulation and naked shorting than the whimpy 9-11 report put up. Do you as quickly jump to the establishment byline for these, as well? or do you actually compare both sides?The problem with Peer Review, is that only Government feed-trough scientists are allowed to review. Reviews that come from outside the government trough are summarily rejected. Kinda like gubmint inflation and unemployment numbers.Einstein rarely submitted to Peer review, nor did some of his contemporaries. And we all know how well Peer Review worked for Galilleo, Nicola Tesla and Wilhelm Reich! Our modern Inquisition is less physical, but every bit as career threatening to anyone questioning the "byline".Check the URL for an independent scientist's thoughts on the Peer Review "system". Goldilox (12/7/05; 17:31:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 138910) Stories @ Bongiorno,I recognize the proliferation of stories around any large scale event, and highly recommend checking them thoroughly, as opposed to blind acceptance of either the "unofficial theories" or the "official byline".The testimony of explosions at the levees was submitted to Congress by eye-witnesses. I heard that myself last night. All they asked for was explosive residue tests, which seems easy enough to do, and offers no downside to comply. The seven evenly-spaced breeches was verified by fly-over photos published the day after the collapse. Maybe the weak points in the construction were evenly-spaced, as well. But good questions.Also, the Canadian press ran stories of a gun battle at one of the levees between FEMA and NO police, leaving three FEMA ops dead. It's even more interesting that this hasn't been explored, as one might easily assume a tragic "mistaken identity", but complete US media silence is surprising, given the many hours of press dedicated to one lost "party-girl" in Aruba. Maybe that's the pont where the NO police went AWOL, as described by the citizens of NO.Not sure how familiar you are with jet diesel fuel, but it does not burn nearly as hot as gasoline (it's about the same caloric intensity as charcoal lighter fluid), and the idea of melting steel outside of an oxigenated furnace gets complete guffaws from my metal-working friends. I've yet to melt my Weber no matter how high the flame!I've watched a lot of building demolition videos, as I love their artful pyrotechnics, and only the very best examples came down with precision of the towers. No one has adequately explained why WTC-7, which was not hit hit by anything and suffered only small roof fires, came tumbling down.I don't claim to have the answers, but I always wonder why anyone who asks the questions is immediately branded as a kook or traitor. Is asking questions anti-patriotic in our new Patrtiot-Act Republic? Max Rabbitz (12/7/05; 17:05:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 138909) Sir Goldilox I don't see how blowing holes in the levey would make any difference to who got flooded. Downtown New Orleans is on high ground, as is the wealthy garden district and the French Quarter. This is where the expensive property is……because it is on relatively high ground. These areas were not saved by deliberately breeched levies but elevation. I understand that water rose throughout the city until it was equal to Lake Ponchartrain. Even Tulane University in the west end was somewhat flooded. Only when the city was completely flooded (except for the high ground) and when the water had ceased to flow through the breeches, could the levies be repaired and the pumps started. I believe the scientist with the trade towers "paper" you referred to is Steven Jones of BYU. He is a particle physicist who worked on "cold fusion", not a structural engineer. The University has censored him for bringing his paper to the public without prior peer review, the proper thing to do. A brief review of his points indicated to me why he choose to avoid peer review. Many of his issues were addressed a long time ago in an article by structural engineers and physicists published in the Popular Science. Now, if Professor Jones could just get cold fusion to work, I'd give him points and read the whole paper more closely. Until then I'm betting on peak oil and encourage Black Blade to work late nights. It's getting rather chilly for so early in the winter. Goldendome (12/7/05; 16:55:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 138908) Consumer credit growth turns negative. Dec 7, 2005 — WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. consumer credit unexpectedly slid by a record $7.20 billion(-$7.2 billion) in October, on a big drop in loans taken for cars and boats, a Federal Reserve report showed on Wednesday.The central bank said total consumer debt outstanding fell 4 percent to a seasonally adjusted $2.157 trillion from a revised $2.164 trillion in September.The rate of decline was the steepest since December 1990, the Fed told reporters. Wall Street analysts polled by Reuters had expected a rise of $5.0 billion in consumer credit in October.The Fed said non-revolving credit — made up of closed-end loans for cars, boats, education expenses and holidays — fell $5.58 billion in October. Revolving credit, which includes credit and charge cards, dipped $1.63 billion.-----------------Goldendome: Do you believe this report portends inflation or deflation? -- And here I had been taking the fall-off in credit card use personal. Guess I just need to buckup and recognize that if my store goes, it won't be alone.Friend of mine told me that our local Wally World had done over a hundred grand by 3 in the afternoon over the weekend. I told him that I'd consider that a nice quarter (of the year). Buongiorno! (12/7/05; 16:46:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 138907) Sir Goldilox --of levies and towers "They" set explosive charges in the New Orleans levies to save downtown? I see. Could it be that the levies were done in by water currents that they were neither designed or maintained for? And is downtown not much higher anyway? Just how, exactly would destroying the levies help save anything extra with that much water coming down? Mysterious. As for the towers, I am informed that asbestos insulation was not installed above about floor sixty. (That is why Osama targeted that level....the uninsulated steel would weaken more rapidly.) After burning for about one hour, the steel supports got hot enough to lose their strength and collapsed. Rather than going floor-by-floor,as we might think, could not several floors, weakened, about the same time --give way--and with the huge weight of forty-something floors above added--just take it on down? Again, setting and timing those charges to go off just right would be a bit difficult? Not impossible. We see these interesting stories about McVea having help(federal?) at Oklahoma City and that FDR baited the Japanese and let Pearl Harbor go (saving the carriers, though). Well,I'll see your Waco burn-out and raise you a gunner on the grassy knoll. (And never believe that even a good marksman can get off three aimed shots at a moving target, using a telescope sight on a bolt-action rifle in three point six seconds.) We probably all like a good yarn--but more facts are always helpful. Buongiorno! USAGOLD Daily Market Report (12/7/05; 16:40:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 138906) Page Update! http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.htmlThe Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.WEDNESDAY Market ExcerptsGold rises further on heavy demand, light supplyDecember 7 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures climbed near their highest level in 23 years Wednesday and silver prices closed at a level not seen since 1987 with the recent rally in the precious metals showing no signs of running out of steam as solid demand and high energy prices fuel inflation concerns."Gold has remained very strong despite expectations of pullbacks and bouts of selling because there has been a group who has heavily played the downside and were usually rewarded soon after," said Peter Grandich, editor of the Grandich Letter. "This time however, they are caught between a rock and a hard place thanks to very strong physical buying and momentum players now flocking to gold," he said.Gold for February delivery finished at $517.80, up $4 for the session having earlier peaked at $520.30, the highest futures level since February 1983."We continue to be positive on gold, believing that healthy underlying supply/demand fundamentals in the form of Indian fabrication, Chinese retail investment, and recycled Middle Eastern petrodollar flows, set the stage for the next round of macro/monetary catalysts to enter the market," said Citigroup analyst John Hill.The surge in gold prices of the past several months has come even as the dollar has strengthened and the Federal Reserve has raised U.S. interest rates, going against the typical pattern for the metal, said Hill."Gold should be well-positioned if the U.S. economy slows sharply, given debt and dual-deficit strains that would likely emerge, or if the Fed attempts to reflate its way past near-term growth impediments for the metal," he said."A seasonal correction in the first quarter of 2006 (as seen in 2003 and 2004) would not be a surprise," he said, although he continues to recommend that investors remain buyers of gold and of gold equities at current levels.---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire, market quotes)--- R Powell (12/7/05; 16:27:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 138905) Galearis // silver, of course Hello again fellow silver lover. Again we tend to see the silver market in the same light but again we hold some differences of opinion. These can be traced back to the basic workings or function of the market. I, too, remember both Uptick and Ted Butler's postings from years gone by. Both were often treated very rudely, imho, but perhaps civility is the uncommon norm here, not everywhere. Thanks CPM. Like yourself, I agree that selling more physical than exists is...must be...naked selling. Theorically, if price...no matter how high...was no object, and the longs stood for delivery, there would be some default. Also, theorically, if pigs had wings, they could fly. No insult intended, but I do not find short selling unusual. It is an intrical part of the market. If the shorts must cover at a lose, I will not cry. It happens every day in many markets. The markets (silver included) allow both buying and selling, whether they possess the physical or not, and whether enough physical exists or not. We know this, but we disagree with whether this selling should be allowed or not. Uptick and myself find no fault here. You and Butler cry market manipulation. Now, what market mechanism exists to counter this short selling? Imho, the markets are balanced, ultimately, by the very reason that they exist, namely the transfer of physical product from producers or sellers to users or buyers. This benefits everybody. You hit the nail on the head with these words... "IMO we are in the transition phase to the purely physical market and we should see things really start to fly in the early New Year." Agreed! Physical demand overpowers speculative or technical trading. The copper market has been a perfect example of this..in spite of a rogue Chinese trader shorting so very much copper. Demand for physical will prevail in market pricing...even to the extent of totally bypassing the market, if necessary, to obtain product! Spot copper is about $2.24, higher than any future contract...appreciably higher! Where is the arbitrage? What a powerhouse market! Is silver next? There are reports of end users now bypassing the copper market altogether to obtain the supply they must have. I will not be surprised if this occurs also with silver as I'm no different from anyone else searching for large silver stockpiles anywhere on this earth of ours. I can not find any evidence of any + simply don't believe that they exist. I can not refute Butler's basic premise (but don't agree with his manipulation theory). But the silver market does NOT believe this. I say so as I believe the POS would be many times what it now is if the market players..even a simple majority of them...did think thus. There is, as we know, so little other than the yearly Silver Survey offered for fundamental numbers. Silver does not trade on fundamental info, it will have to be forced into realisation of the supply/demand situation. I'm not trying to change your opinion that the silver market has been manipulated over the years. The difference of opinion is almost mute as it changes nothing concerning the future POS. I agree that more silver was sold than exists, but do not consider this obscene or unlawful or even unusual. It's almost all a paper game (such a small amount of trade is settled with physical)...profit or lose..in dollars and cents only. Demand for physical will (and is now?) changing this with a vengence + may eventually cause some severe short covering...again settled in fiat, not metal. During the last huge silver run from about $4.01 to an overnight high in the $8.50s (which now has been surpassed!!!!), Kaplan warned that the move was speculative in nature and not demand driven. Silver eventually crashed all the way back down to about $5.50. By my reckoning, he was a lot more right than wrong. And, yes, this is probably exactly what an always silver bear would say...but the market proved him right...so, I'm curious as to what he thinks of this current move. Myself, I'm looking for signs that it is indeed demand (fundamentally) driven. If I knew for sure, it would alter my risk tolerance in the paper games I play. And yes, I know about the low risk of physical possession. I do hold bars and coins. My speculative money, however, is attracted to the life changing potential of leverage, which I do NOT advocate for the general investor! Indeed, I advocate buying good delivery 100 ounce bars from MK and company. We watch together! I always appreciate your input and your watchfulness on the physical. That's the ultimate power piece in any market...it is not complicated..simple 101 economics of supply and demand, no? Say hello for me to the rest of the silver fan community on those sites that I do not enter. rich melda laure (12/7/05; 16:24:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 138904) POG/POE. Price of gold in eggses: circa 1999, $260 / $0.99 or 263dozen per ounce. circa 2005, $519 / $2.66 or 250 dozen per ounce. And that's before bird flu.Is it gold that flies to the moon, or is it paper that dissolves into nothing? TownCrier (12/7/05; 11:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 138903) South American gold http://www.usagold.com/gold/special/south.html Only a final few remain!R. Goldilox (12/7/05; 11:44:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 138902) American "victims" http://www.cspan.org @ Balzac,I'm referring to the allegations by sworn Congressional eye-witnesses that the seven evenly spaced levee breeches were blown to save "downtown", while sacrificing less commercially viable neghborhoods. Check the URL to find the proceedings on streaming video. They usually take a few days to post, but watch for "Dec 6th, N.O. levee witnesses" or something like that.There is also a new paper out by a physicist who used frame-by-frame timecode analysis to support his thesis that the WTC fell at a nearly unimpeded gravitic acceleration rate, requiring virtually zero resistance from below to accomplish. If each floor was collapsing onto the floor below it, the resistance as the mass encountered supports in the floor below would add a measurable delay at each encounter. As a video technology engineer, I can assure you that NTSC timecode is a very precise 29.95 fps, supplying 898 distinct, equi-distant measurement points over a 30 second interval. I haven't found the source yet, but will post a reference when I do. I really want to see the raw numbers to give it full due diligence. TownCrier (12/7/05; 11:43:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 138901) Japanese hedgers keep gold at dizzy heights http://news.ft.com/cms/s/68c71ea2-66c7-11da-884a-0000779e2340.html (FT) December 7 2005 -- Gold reached its highest level since April 1981 when it hit an intra-day peak of $510.30 a troy ounce yesterday in Asian trading. Japanese investors were particularly active as they looked to use the metal as a hedge against the declining yen.Gold is now back at levels last seen when it was falling from its all-time peak of $850 reached in January 1980, which equates to about $2,000 in today's terms.^---(from url)---^Why is gold globally, fundamentally strong? Because, as everyone everywhere else has always seen it a bit more clearly than most dollar-blindered Americans, the alternative to the liquidity of gold is merely paper. That is to say, when you know you can't put long-term trust in paper, gold is the natural universal savings asset of choice.R. TownCrier (12/7/05; 11:34:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 138900) "Gold fever" hits Shanghai http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-12/07/content_3887439.htm BEIJING, Dec. 7 -- Trading in gold investment products reached a feverish pitch in Shanghai as the price of the yellow metal yesterday shot to an 18-year high. It reached 131 yuan (US$16.15) per gram, up around 1 per cent from the price on Monday. There were many who believed the price would rise even further, traders said. Trading was hectic, helping to push the price even higher.The 'physical' gold trading product "Jinhangjia" jointly put out by the Industrial and Commercial Bank (ICBC) Shanghai Branch and the Shanghai Gold Exchange also saw a change in trading patterns. The product is different from paper trading, which is not for delivery; Jinhangjia allows buyers to demand the physical delivery of gold, with expenses of only 2 yuan (24 US cents) for each kilogram.The price of "Jinhangjia" exceeded 130 yuan per gram yesterday, an increase of over 30 per cent over that of the previous months.The price of Beijing Olympics Gold, a gold souvenir expected to be put out later this month, is set to exceed 140 yuan per gram...The exchange dismissed the rumour that the rising gold price in China was caused partially by speculative investment from overseas.^---(from url)---^A very interesting and telling dismissal by the exchange -- in other words, their sentiment is "nuts to speculation, gold is rising FUNDAMENTALLY."R. TownCrier (12/7/05; 11:19:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 138899) Gold's 24-Year High Due to Central Bank Buying http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/12-07-2005/0004229582&EDATE=WED+Dec+07+2005,+09:28+AM BALTIMORE, Dec. 7 -- Gold hit a 24-year record high on Wednesday, rising against all major currencies and all major commodities. While most believe that this surge is due to worries over US inflation and strong retail demand in the Far East, NY Times best-selling author Addison Wiggin asserts that the yellow metal's soaring price has more to do with buying from second and third tier central banks who find themselves burdened with US dollar reserves.Despite recent dollar strength, central bankers are increasingly exploring alternatives to U.S. and European currencies, as well as stocks and bonds."In the past month, Russia, Argentina and South Africa decided to increase the amount of gold in their reserves - and Japan is likely to follow suit," says Wiggin, whose book, Empire of Debt debuted at the #6 spot on the NY Times bestseller list this week, and was listed by the Economist as one of the top ten books that will "tell you what's really going on."^---(from url)---^Better still, those who have been tuned in to USAGOLD for the past seven years have ALREADY learned and know "what's really going on".Between MK's book 'The ABCs of Gold Investing' and FOA's sure-footed guidance on 'The Gold Trail', augmented by the daily news and opinion being chewed up and digested by everyone sharing their thoughts here at the Forum, you guys are well beyond everyone else on the power curve of knowledge.And as proof of your superior position, you have gold to show for it. Keep up the good work.R. Goldilox (12/7/05; 11:15:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 138898) Change of "Spin" For the less politically minded, let me adjust my first post this morning.Change: "They came for our guns, and promised security. They came for our homes, and foreclosed us to the streets. They came for our gold, and arrested us as "terrorists"!to: "They came for our guns, and promised security. They came for our homes, and foreclosed us to the streets. They came for our gold, and left us swimming in bank debt!"Not that different in reality, but maybe better focused for this audience. balzac (12/7/05; 11:04:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 138897) GOLDILOX YOUR 138872 Your statement "1000s of americans, abandoned possibly murdered" what were you refering to?balzac USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (12/7/05; 10:53:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 138896) Especially designed for those who are taking their first step... http://www.usagold.com/gold/special/starter.html TownCrier (12/7/05; 10:51:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 138895) If you believe yourself to be among those who are frozen in their tracks... (ref. earlier post) http://www.usagold.com/gold/special/starter.html Click or call and ask for the buyer-friendly 'Gold Ownership Starter Kit' from USAGOLD to help get you moving in the right direction.It'll probably be the easiest thing you'll do all day. Welcome to the realm of gold ownership -- you are now Master of your Portfolio, no longer mastered by uncertainty.TOLL FREE 1-800-869-5115R. Druid (12/7/05; 10:51:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 138894) (No Subject) Druid: It's fun watching those well trained tele-prompting reading clowns on the parrot box almost choke up quoting the price of gold. I'm sure it's making some them violently ill. But hey, they look good. Bugs we're literally watching a paradigm shift take place right before our eyes, a financial coup of sorts in plain sight, but Oh! So misunderstood. Gandalf the White (12/7/05; 10:22:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 138893) WOWSERS, Sir Smeagol -- that Euro-Gold chart shows --- YES, THE 350 Euro BARRIER was hard to breach, BUT in the last few MONTHS -- BREAKOUT !It looks as if gold is headed "TO THE MOON" in ALL currencies !Did not SOMEONE tell us that would happen ?<;-) OvS (12/7/05; 10:18:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 138892) Goldilox. I'd like to "finetune" myprevious post:Scotia Capital's subsidiaryScotiaMocatta was/is allegedlyone of the two largest shortsin the silver market.I was always wondering how these shorts would make-goodand here we can see them inaction. I don't know if it isan action of desparation orwas planned long time ago. Fordecades those shorts must havebeen reaping a fortune and nowit's time to give some of thatback (If they are still shortbuying into Silver Wheaton canbe considered a hedge-operation). Smeagol (12/7/05; 10:10:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 138891) Of waterfalls... and cliffs! http://isht.comdirect.de/html/detail/main.html?toDelete=¤cy=EUR&x=9&y=11&avg1=&avg2=&bench0_dropdown=&pers_einst=0&sCat=IND&sTab=bigchart&hist=5y&DEBUG=0&sSym=GLD.FX1&type=CONNECTLINE&sWkn=n%2Fa&sIsin=n%2Fa Sssir Gandalf...check out that favorite chart of yours...in Euros! ~8-)S. Gandalf the White (12/7/05; 09:58:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 138890) Thanks YGM ! BUT ----- ONLY FOUR ?NAW !!<;-) YGM (12/7/05; 09:55:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 138889) Secutrity working pic deleted. http://www.hirestandard.com/gifs/Golden_eggs.jpg this may work YGM (12/7/05; 09:52:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 138888) That was basket # 1 http://www.worth1000.com/entries/155000/155039PUWT_w.JPG This is # 2...What does # 10 look like? YGM (12/7/05; 09:45:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 138887) Gandalf.....Here is Your Basket of Stocks http://www.scenta.co.uk/images/userimages/egg.jpg Show us the nest with the rest 'O Wizard'!!!! Galearis (12/7/05; 09:42:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 138886) @ Pritcho re: Re Uptick (138865) That post took a LOT longer than usual to write,,,because I had to delete, rephrase and tone down so much. I used to post on Kitco and he was one of the main reasons that I left that forum. Since then I read his stuff from time to time and wondered,,,no, was dumbfounded by the difference in style. Gone was the "in your face", mocking insults, to be replaced with one of humility and respect for his readers.That I knew was pretence, of course.I always considered his interests sourced from being a major short in silver, and much of what he said was "disinformation".But in the real world,...We all know that silver has been outperforming gold of late,,,and will continue to do so in all probability. The reasons are all too obvious in my locality of Ontario. There really isn't any silver outside of ScotiaMocatta in Toronto. My contacts - who are dealers - inform me that it is simply not out there for sale. Heck, I know of dealers who are buying what does turn up and hoarding it! Buy it wherever you can find it!This is REAL! (smile)FWIW.Regards,G. Gandalf the White (12/7/05; 09:38:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 138885) ANOTHER (Thank YOU, SIR)-- chart ! <;-) http://isht.comdirect.de/html/detail/main.html?hist=5y&sSym=GLD.FX1&DEBUG=0&ind0=VOLUME&sCat=IND&sIsin=n%2fa&sTab=bigchart&sWkn=n%2fa&type=CONNECTLINE THIS one is my FAVORITE ! I show it to all my friends and ask them if any of their stocks have done as well, and if they can guess which "stock" it is !AND, YES, I have all my eggs in this one "stock" !!!<;-) Gandalf the White (12/7/05; 09:26:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 138884) WOWSERS !!! --check the CHART at the Link ! <;-) http://isht.comdirect.de/html/detail/main.html?sTab=chart&hist=1d&sSym=GLD.FX1 THE YELLOW is becoming just like predicting the WEATHER in the GREAT PACIFIC NORTHWEST !!(Just wait five minutes and it will change !)GO YELLOW <;-) Mr Gresham (12/7/05; 08:59:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 138883) Woke up "Woke up, it was a Limit Up morning,and the first thing that I saw..." (apologies to Joni Mitchell, "Chelsea Morning")was the gold chart spiking upward, past the borders of the graphs meant to contain them.Yes, '99 and '01 had me going, too. Third time's the charm?Goldilox, you been beltin' 'em out! YGM (12/7/05; 08:14:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 138882) FOA & ANOTHER Gentlemen you said you would return at the appropriate time!! No need to wait further. Exoneration comes in many forms and stages. The 1st stage is now set! The form is visable and growing. Goldbug virus is circling the globe. OvS (12/7/05; 08:09:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 138881) Goldilox. Silver Wheaton is a subsidiaryof Goldcorp.Goldcorp is committed to buy1.35 billion dollars worth ofmineproperties from Barrick, ifand when (Feb.06) they take overPlacer Dome. GG has 400 millionin cash and surely can use anxtra 100 mil.Now, Scotia Capital represents the global capital markets ofScotia Bank, who reportedly is//was one of the two largest "shorts" in the silver market.Get the picture? Big money inaction. OvS Belgian (12/7/05; 05:45:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 138880) @ Goldilox : democracy - establishment - intelligentia During, what we call (experience as) normal times, a would-be democracy reigns (is experienced) under the more or less balanced interaction between establishment and intelligentia.The analytical question of "why" a major faction is moving further away from the (pseudo)ideal of (western) democracy, has not yet been asked and answered...PUBLICLY... by the (real) intelligentia. They are all completely anaestheticed (silenced) for one "MAJOR" reason. And you probably know my personal idea of this major reason (emphasis on major). Democracy + establishment + intelligentia, do function in times of status quo and the interaction gets disturbed in times of BIG CHANGES...always periods to be very (extremely) cautious. We are living, NOW, such another period !The establishment will allow the intelligentia to trumpet the synthesis (conclusions) of the big changes...after they materialized...and we move closer to another period of would-be democracy, once again.Today, and in the days to come, explaining the "real reasons" for the return of modern gold, aren't that important anymore. It is happening now in absolute silence.And that's the way it should happen.Thanks for the educative post, Sir. Belgian (12/7/05; 03:21:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 138879) Indeed Sir TC... ...Your story is not much different here on the other side of the pond. And when one of those, so called, goldprice corrections comes...the majority doesn't dare -"again"-, to take enough (appropiate amount) PHYSICAL into possession ! Have been following this psy-process for more than 5 years now.With each goldprice correction, the paper-gold bugs are strengthened in their conviction that physical gold advocates do keep having it wrong...and always miss the "leverage" ! The gold-wealth process...is only a dream,...a theory... yadayadayada. But nevertheless, the traditional paper-gold-bugs, did accumulate "some" physical...for the sake of peace of mind...just in case, the theory, the dream would correspond with the evolving realities. Denial > acceptance >>> PANIC !The theoretical times (the advocay of physical gold) are already behind us. Now, the "facts" will "show" what is (was already) really going on. Aren't you supposed to be in bed now...? -)(-((( OvS-That was a nice thing, you said))) TownCrier (12/7/05; 02:42:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 138878) On corrections I had the pleasure earlier this evening having randomly encountered a friend at a coffee shop. Is seems like we cross paths on average about once every one or two months.Each time, without fail, he picks my brain about the latest doings of the central banks and more especially about the gold market in general. And in fact, in anticipation of this latter line of questioning, I usually cut to the chase and offer the latest gold price as part of my salutation, such as today, "Hello Antonio! FIVE-ONE-OH."For the past few years he's always been on the cusp of buying gold, but as the price has always been higher than it was previously, he usually expresses a mixed sense first of wonderment and ultimately of agitation (as though he's missed the last boat). Having taken no action during the lower prices, he almost always consoles himself, speaking his thoughts out loud (almost as if seeking my approval), that "I'll definitely buy on the correction".Sensing that what he really needed was simply a bit more proactive dialogue than I had customarily provided (my personal conversational style is to merely inform and let people make their own decisions), my response to his "correction" comment finally turned the light on.I suggested that while he was always sidelined waiting for the next "correction" he ought to give some consideration to the following possibility -- that in light of the various things I've previously talked about, the piddly "correction" that he always seems to be waiting for is of no account compared to THE REAL CORRECTION that he needs to tune into -- that being a relentless march to significantly higher prices as gold corrects for 70+ years of undervaluation by the world's banking system.What a shame it would be for a would-be gold owner to stay sidelined, waiting for some insignificant degree of price-drop that never materialized. I wonder how many other people have consistently tried to save $20 by waiting for a "correction", only to discover that after a series of $5 intraday dips the price overall has moved $50 higher, again and again.Nike has a good slogan for occasions like this -- "just do it"R. Belgian (12/7/05; 01:59:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 138877) @Pan > msf#138849 The following two lines are the (dramatic) diagnosis (synthesis) of the failing $-IMS...and at the same time it contains the (presently) building solution !!!I had another waw-experience !>>>...It's fair to say (fair-!!!???) India's economic growth would be higher if the money tied up in gold (wawwww) was invested more productively,...""" says Diana Farrell, director of the McKinsey Global (???) Institute in San Francisco """. Diana's utterly nonsense at "this" stage of the gold-wealth-reserve process, caused the waw-experience.Thanks Pan. PRITCHO (12/7/05; 01:42:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 138876) Price Anomalies In The Gold Market -- - http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/speck120605.html Check out the above article for some convincing evidence on what the crooks have been doing - - Snip:"Clearly visible here is that the gold price tends much more negatively during New York trading hours as during the remaining hours of the day. The beginning of these price anomalies (irregularities) can be pinpointed to the day. They started on August 5, 1993. This is of significance because it allows the accompanying circumstances leading to the irregularities to be more clearly defined. September 1999 is also notable as gold jumped following the Washington Agreement (WAG). More recently the line is above the zero level. Since then prices tend to rise toward the New York close. However in the current year (2005) the anomaly of a sharp drop toward the afternoon fixing continues. The basic premise of a typical sharp drop during the Comex session hasn't changed. Only the test procedure, chosen because of data availability is too inexact." Goldilox (12/7/05; 01:02:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 138875) Oops, my mistake Silver Wheaton deal is for shares not silver units. I stand blind and corrected.That's about a 16% premium over today's close.Probably still a great deal for the banks! Goldilox (12/7/05; 00:57:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 138874) Silver Wheaton announces C$75 million "bought deal" financing http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2005/06/c3630.html @ Rich,Unfortunately, here's a hedge that did not press for higher prices ahead. They're selling their silver with the depreciation of a used car!-G'lox Goldilox (12/7/05; 00:40:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 138873) Kiss your Democracy Goodbye (But Did You Ever Have One?) http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BOW20051021&articleId=1124 snip:Nobody could deny that indeed the state is undertaking fundamental attacks on the limited civil rights we have won over the past century or so of struggle but firstly, why are elements of the legal profession and the media only now waking up to the fact? Could it be that as long as it was only ‘extremists’ and other ‘fellow travellers’ who were the alleged subject of the attacks, our ‘liberal intelligentsia’ were not that troubled, but now they see their own positions of privilege threatened, they have at long last spoken out?What is revealed here is something a lot more fundamental and a lot more insidious, for these self-same people who now talk of a "drift toward a police state" have seen the writing on the wall for at least past eight years, yet said nothing and indeed were quite content to accept the ‘drift’ so long as it didn't affect them.Moreover, it reveals the incestuous relationship between our so-called intelligentsia and the state, why else do they continue to peddle the line that what is happening is some kind of encroachment on these mythical ‘rights’ that we are supposed to have had for centuries?The uncomfortable truth is that democracy, even the limited form we currently have, exists for only as long as it's convenient to keep it. And it's a ‘democracy’ that is extremely narrowly defined, namely a two-party system that exists within a structure defined by an inherited and entrenched state bureaucracy that is, we are told, neutral and independent of the political process.Yet the ‘Establishment’ as it is referred to, is a recognised institution composed of people who control the organs of the state; the judicial system, the civil service, the police and security services, education, the armed forces, and through their connections, the media and big business. These are people who are connected via the schools and universities they attended; the clubs they belong to and via family and business relationships.However, the ‘Establishment’ is rarely, if ever referred to as being central to the maintenance of the State's power. Instead, it is presented to us as an amorphous and inherited set of relationships that are intrinsically ‘English’. The illusion is complete and reinforced by the assumptions made about its ‘inevitable’ nature, hence the statement "freedoms citizens have taken for granted for centuries" flows logically from such assumptions.The role therefore of the intelligentisa is to maintain the illusion of a society ruled by people who have some kind of ‘natural right’ to rule, benignly you understand, to suggest otherwise is to be ‘un-English’ and it goes by the name of a ‘meritocracy’, those who rule through ability alone, at least that's what we are told. The Establishment is so powerful that it easily absorbs even those who ‘rise through the ranks’ and end up belonging to it, such as those who head up the current ‘Labour’ government, regardless that they come from working class backgrounds.-GoldiloxWritten with the UK in mind, but parallels are ubiquitous around the "free world".The Neocons profess the spreading of democracy, but neglect to tell us that they consider it an end-sum game, so we must give some up in order to "spread it". Goldilox (12/7/05; 00:13:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 138872) Internet News @ MK,Your forum is a very real part of the reason that internet news and views are chasing the "store-bought" media from the scene. Many other sites are cluttered with cross-talk, epithets, wild propheies, and too little research. When the mainstream bills Donnie Deutch and his ilk of PT Barnums as "Reality Shows," anyone with a lick of sense can see that they have no sense of reality at all.I have watched some of the alt news sites with interest and some suspicion since the 911 and New Orleans events, but what I saw in the "hollow halls" of Congress today convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt. Outside the CSPAN direct broadcast and a few internet sites, there has been virtually NO Media coverage of the admin's complete whitewash of these events, even when questioned openly in Congress by respectable eye-witnesses.Thousands of Americans abandoned, and possibly murdered, and we still endure "news" stories about one single American party-girl who got mixed up with the night-life crowd in Aruba. Of course I fell sorry for her and her family, but they are not as newsworthy to me as the lives of thousands of suffering victims who weren't seduced by "looking for love in all the wrong places".The openness of the internet requires we do due diligence of our sources, but the alternative of swallowing the NWO "byline" hook, line, and sinker is grim. indeed. According to Jefferson (Thomas, not Wheezie) due diligence is what "freedom" is all about.Thank you for opening the forum to questions and topics that we considered tangential not long ago, as it is becoming obvious how intertwined the corruption really is. What we once thought were unrelated events in ENRON, Barrick v. Blanchard, and whole scale naked shorting are all appearing to be very related indeed!During WWII, a Lutheran pastor once quipped, "They came for the Jews, but we were silent. They came for the Catholics, and silent we remained. When they came for us, there was no one left to hear our cries."Let us fervently hope and pray that the byline of lost Empirius Americanus will not be:"They came for our guns, and promised security. They came for our homes, and foreclosed us to the streets. They came for our gold, and arrested us as "terrorists"! ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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