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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/7/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

SHIFTY (09/07/00; 23:50:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 36234)
The Shooting Show Newsletter
- http://www.shootingshow.com/
I just received this tonight. I'm sorry to be off topic, but I felt that this would be of interest to my fellow Americans.

$hifty
============================================================


Divvy: 426
NRA-ILA SPECIAL FAX ALERT

9/5/00

CLINTON-GORE-RENO JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CONFIRMS
ITS OFFICIAL POSITION: INDIVIDUAL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS
HAVE NO RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS!


What follows on the next page of this Special FAX Alert is the
text of a letter from the Department of Justice to an NRA member. The
letter is also posted on www.NRAILA.org.

The letter confirms what we reported in a previous FAX Alert (No.
24, June 16) -- that the Clinton-Gore-Reno Justice Department stands by
its contention that law-abiding individual Americans have NO Right to Keep
and Bear Arms!

This letter should serve as a stark reminder to all gun owners why
this year's elections are so critical to the future of the Second
Amendment.

On Friday, you will receive a "Grassroots Election Action FAX
Alert" that will outline the steps you must take in the coming weeks and
months to ensure we can replace elected officials and government-appointed
bureaucrats who view the Second Amendment with such hostility.

We hope you will share this letter with your family, friends, and
fellow firearm owners and use it to ensure that all of our supporters are
fully engaged in this year's elections.


U. S. Department of Justice

Office of the Solicitor General



Solicitor GeneralWashington, D.C. 20530
August 22, 2000


Dear Mr. (Name Deleted):

Thank you for your letter dated August 11, 2000, in which you
question certain statements you understand to have been made by an
attorney for the United States during oral argument before the Fifth
Circuit in United States v. Emerson. Your letter states that the attorney
indicated that the United States believes "that it could 'take guns away
from the public,' and 'restrict ownership of rifles, pistols and shotguns
from all people.'" You ask whether the response of the attorney for the
United States accurately reflects the position of the Department of
Justice and whether it is indeed the government's position "that the
Second Amendment of the Constitution does not extend to the people as an
individual right."

I was not present at the oral argument you reference, and I have
been informed that the court of appeals will not make the transcript or
tape of the argument available to the public (or to the Department of
Justice). I am informed, however, that counsel for the United States in
United States v. Emerson, Assistant United States Attorney William Mateja,
did indeed take the position that the Second Amendment does not extend an
individual right to keep and bear arms.

That position is consistent with the view of the Amendment taken
both by the federal appellate courts and successive Administrations. More
specifically, the Supreme Court and eight United States Courts of Appeals
have considered the scope of the Second Amendment and have uniformly
rejected arguments that it extends firearms rights to individuals
independent of the collective need to ensure a well-regulated militia. See
United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) (the "obvious purpose" of the
Second Amendment was to effectuate Congress's power to "call forth the
Militia to execute the Laws of the Union," not to provide an individual
right to bear arms contrary to federal law"); Cases v. United States, 131
F.2d 916, 921 (1st Cir. 1942) ("The right to keep and bear arms is not a
right conferred upon the people by the federal constitution."); Eckert v.
City of Philadelphia, 477 F.2d 610 (3rd Cir. 1973) ("It must be remembered
that the right to keep and bear arms is not a right given by the United
States Constitution."); United States v. Johnson, 497 F.2d 548, 550 (4th
Cir. 1974); United States v. Warin, 530 F.2d 103, 106-07 (6th Cir. 1976)
("We conclude that the defendant has no private right to keep and bear
arms under the Second Amendment."); Stevens v. United States, 440 F.2d
144, 149 (6th Cir. 1971) ("There can be no serious claim to any express
constitutional right of an individual to possess a firearm."); Ouilici v.
Village of Morton Grove, 695 F.2d 261, 270 (7th Cir. 1982) ("The right to
keep and bear handguns is not guaranteed by the second amendment.");
United States v. Hale, 978 F.2d 1016, 1019 (8th Cir. 1992) ("The rule
emerging from Miller is that, absent a showing that the possession of a
certain weapon has some relationship to the preservation or efficiency of
regulated militia, the Second Amendment does not guarantee the right to
possess the weapon."); United States v. Tomlin, 454 F.2d 176 (9th Cir.
1972); United States v. Swinton, 521 F.2d 1255, 1259 (10th Cir. 1975)
("There is no absolute constitutional right of an individual to possess a
firearm.").

Thus, rather than holding that the Second Amendment protects
individual firearms rights, these courts have uniformly held that it
precludes only federal attempts to disarm, abolish, or disable the ability
to call up the organized state militia. Similarly, almost three decades
ago, the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel explained:


The language of the Second Amendment, when it was first presented to the
Congress, makes it quite clear that it was the right of the States to
maintain a militia that was being preserved, not the rights of an
individual to own a gun.[and] [there is no indication that Congress
altered its purpose to protect state militias, not individual gun
ownership [upon consideration of the Amendment] . . . . Courts.have viewed
the Second Amendment as limited to the militia and have held that it does
not create a personal right to own or use a gun . . . . In light of the
constitutional history, it must be considered as settled that there is no
personal constitutional right, under the Second Amendment, to own or to
use a gun.



Letter from Mary C. Lawton, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Office of
Legal Counsel, to George Bush, Chairman, Republican National Committee
(July 19, 1973) (citing, inter alia, Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252
(1886), and United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939)). See also, e.g.,
Federal Firearms Act, Hearings before the Subcommittee to Investigate
Juvenile Delinquency of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States
Senate 41 (1965) (Statement of Attorney General Katzenbach) ("With respect
to the second amendment, the Supreme Court of the United States long ago
made it clear that the amendment did not guarantee to any individuals the
right to bear arms.").

I hope this answers your question. Thank you again for writing.


Yours sincerely,




Seth P. Waxman


Strad Master (09/07/00; 23:48:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 36233)
Stratfor's take on the Euro
http://www.stratfor.com/services/giu/subscribe.asp
Here is today's Stratfor Intelligence report which talks about the recent plunge in the Euro and what they see unfolding. I'd be interested in any commentary, especially from Trail Guide since it appears to contradict some of what he's written.

On Sept. 7, the euro hit a record low, falling to about 87 cents to
the U.S. dollar. As the European Central Bank simultaneously battles
inflation by raising interest rates, there are signs that the continent's
economy will slow significantly over the next several months. After years
of driving toward economic unity, governments will seek divergent
strategies in reaction to these events. In the next few years, Europe will
be increasingly divided over everything from the role of the euro to the
now fading hope of standardizing the continent's complex tax regime.

Analysis

After years of driving toward a single economic bloc, bound by a
single currency, Europe in stark contrast to the United States is
battling severe economic headwinds. On Aug. 31, the European Central Bank
boosted interest rates from 4.25 to 4.50 the sixth increase in 10 months in
an attempt to reduce inflation beneath the 2 percent ceiling dictated
by the 1992 Maastricht Treaty on monetary union.

Contrary to expectations, this move has not bolstered the euro; instead the
currency struck an all-time low of 0.8691 to the dollar on Sept. 6. This
followed a week of losses as a booming American economy sucked away investment
dollars. The trend will continue until the EU adopts needed structural
reform, particularly in its labor laws.

But Europe's current troubles indicate a long-term trend: The drive to
unite the continent's economies is stalling. And the euro, once expected
to bind small economies like Portugal's to large ones like Germany's, is
producing unintended side effects. There is inflation on the edges of Europe,
as in Sweden and Portugal. At the same time, growth is slowing in the heart
of the continent. The European Union's member governments are fretting separately
over how to deal with monetary union, not about how to unify further.

Europe's central bank in Frankfurt admits that the immediate problems facing the
EU high oil prices and a weak euro cannot be solved with interest rate hikes.
High oil prices now over $34 per barrel of Brent crude oil can only be
alleviated by some unforeseen event abroad or a long-term drop in consumption.

A weak euro can only be strengthened by deep structural reforms, like changing
corporate tax laws or breaking down the continent's labor laws. But these are
beyond the power of the central bank. By raising rates the ECB is at least
attempting to bring inflation under control. The ECB attributes more than half of
the 2.4 percent inflation in areas where the euro is now used to factors
distinctly unrelated to high energy prices.

But rate hikes slow growth and a number of statistics indicate that Europe's
growth is indeed slowing significantly. The combined economies of the continent
were expected to grow 3.4 percent this year, the highest in a decade. However,
several negative indicators are creeping upward.

Consider Germany. At the top of the list is the rising cost of oil, up 77.2 percent
in Germany from the year before, according to the German Statistics Office.
Furthermore, oil must be paid for in dollars. The euro's 25 percent drop against
the dollar since January only compounds high oil prices. Germany did post an
impressive 4.7 annualized percent growth rate for the quarter ending in June,
but with energy costs, borrowing costs and expansion costs rising quickly,
it is unclear how long this will last. Business and consumer confidence
both dropped in July and August.

Industrial production is tapering off, too. In June, industrial production fell
0.4 percent in areas where the euro is in use; France and Germany Europe's
economic engines led the way. This is hardly the mark of an economy in the
middle of a boom. New rate hikes, which the ECB says are already in the works,
will only slow these economies further. To make matters worse, European
investment is crossing the Atlantic in search of better returns. This forces
business to borrow in order to finance expansion a proposition the central bank
just made more expensive.

The effect is divisive: Germany, France, Italy and the Low Countries will
experience anemic growth while the states on the edge of Europe are churning
ahead on what is comparatively cheap capital. Finland, Spain and Sweden are
all on track to top 5 percent growth this year while Ireland could
top 10 percent. All face rising inflation. Interest rates that are too high for
core are too low for periphery. The ECB's Aug. 31 rate hike will be no more than
a passing blip on these states' radar, while inflation threatens to spiral out of
control. Ireland already has an inflation rate that is triple the ECB's 2 percent
ceiling.

MarkeTalk (09/07/00; 23:40:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 36232)
Simply Me
In your post you mentioned that someone had brought up the fact that Crown Prince Abdullah was a Bedoiun in his thinking. I believe that you were referring to my post entitled "Washington Politics to Meet Saudi Oil" dated Sept. 5th, message #36062. I want to thank you for obtaining a link to an Arab source so that all readers can see for themselves.

MarkeTalk (09/07/00; 23:32:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 36231)
Ad hominem attacks against GATA in FAZ article
I just finished reading the original article in German which appeared in today's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, courtesy of LeMetropole Cafe. Besides the specious arguments as to why there is no concerted effort to suppress the gold market, what struck me at first glance was the boxing ring stereotype used: in one corner are Gold Field Mineral Services and the World Gold Council; in the other corner is GATA. After introducing the credentials of GFMS and WGC along with their resident "expert", one Jessica Cross, a somewhat disparaging treatment is then given Bill Murphy and Chris Powell. Bill Murphy is described as "an American commentator on financial matters who had put together respective reports about the gold market." Chris Powell is described as "a newspaper publisher from Connecticut." Together they constitute GATA whose "goal is to raise money and hire lawyers to pursue legal action."

The article then proceeds to dispatch each and every credible argument advanced by GATA. Finally, the author of the article states that GATA has knowingly interpreted the statistics in a false manner. Instead, a strong U.S. Dollar is given as the reason for a low gold price as well as the desire of many central banks to get rid of "their large, rather unprofitable gold reserves." The article ends by saying that, in the long term, no one expects a dramatic recovery in the gold price.

So in conclusion: It appears that the editors at Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in Germany are acting in lock-step with the wishes of Washington and London. It seems rather strange and out of character that this article would appear after the Washington Agreement of last September pitted Europe against Anglo/American interests. QUERY: Would today's announcement of a proposed merger between Deutsche Bank and J.P. Morgan have anything to do with this perceived change in position???

Simply Me (09/07/00; 23:15:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 36230)
An Interview with Crown Prince Abdullah
http://www.arab.net/arabview/articles/rashed33.html
As mentioned earlier by someone in this forum. The man chosen to be the next ruler of Saudi Arabia is by birth, heritage and education, more Bedouin than any of his brothers. This interview, meant for readers of the Islamic faith, I believe, represents the leader's thoughts and motivations more accurately than anything I have read in the US/Euro press.

<snip> He said in 1970s when the Kingdom was badly in need
of money it gave preference to the greater interest of the Ummah by initiating to stop oil export in response to a decision taken by some countries in favor of Israel. "By doing so we have proved that our national stands are loftier than the glitter of gold," he added.
<snip>

My comment: For some reason, I remember that oil embargo differently. Hmmmm...is it just Western thinking, or did that crisis result in a lot of "glitter" being added to ME coffers.

<snip>
Prince Abdullah, however, expected a new phase in the Middle East peace process with the arrival of Barak and hoped to make united efforts to establish peace and stability in the region. He said he will discuss with Syrian President Hafiz Assad all major Arab and Islamic issues. Asked whether there was any plan to visit the liberated Palestinian territories, he answered in the negative: "We don't make any
hasty steps without any objective. The Palestinian people and President Yasser Arafat know how much we are concerned with their issue..."
However, he expressed his optimism that one day he will pray at Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem when it is liberated and brought under the sovereignty of Arabs.
<unsnip>

My comment: Old Arab Proverb - The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

<snip> Referring to his long official journeys, he said: "I will not hesitate to go anywhere in the world if it serves the interests of my country and of the Arab and Islamic Ummah."
<unsnip>

My comment/question: If your prime concern is your countries welfare and your country's riches are in oil and gold, wouldn't you seek the demise of the U.S. dollar that demands such cheap prices for your most precious commodities?

Old American Proverb: Gold...get you some before the fecal matter hits the oscillating cooling device.
simply me



elevator guy (09/07/00; 23:03:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 36229)
A big obvious hole in the argument!
A thought occurred to me, as I was reading GATA's latest.

<snip>

From the Frankfurter Allgemeine
Thursday, September 7, 2000


The Theory of a Conspiracy in the Gold Market
is Misleading and Wrong

<unsnip>
<snip>

There are many good reasons that give sufficient
explanation of the low gold price, with the strong
dollar being first. The greater the value of the
dollar, the lower the price of gold. In addition,
financial markets are in a period of extremely low
inflation and strong climbing share prices. So there is
no need for investors to invest in gold to fight
inflation, as in former times.

<unsnip>

"Extremely low inflation", and "No need for investors to invest in gold to fight inflation" the author writes. HA-HA!

The 10 year high in crude oil, now about $35/barrel, is almost triple what it was only about a year ago or so. And by all acounts, its going higher and higher. Since oil drives the economies of the industrialized world, it is only a matter of time before the "numbers" can no longer be tweaked, to show low inflation. Oil will have its say, and nothing in our industrial infrastructure will change the status quo of an oil based economy until oil reaches over $50/barrel. Maybe even higher. Peak production is upon us. Has peak demand been reached yet? No way! China is gearing up, and all over the world, ever increasing demand far outstrips new discoveries. This is an end game, and before its over the dollar will get clobbered. (The "IN" crowd will be short the dollar at this time) Whoever thinks low inflation is reality, needs to spend more time at the Forum. Whoever thinks low inflation and the "New Economy" are here to stay, well, that person is a dumb sheep who has swallowed a line of b.s., specifically prepared for the masses. And those who dispense this drivel upon the masses know full well the fallacy of their spin, but they don't care, for to them, the media is just a tool, used to deceive the sheeple, and they don't care about truth, its just a dirty word, all they care about is lining their pockets with the stolen sweat of the workers of the world. Keep that dollar game afloat! That's where their heads are at. And if "they" have to pay out on obligations, "they" will allow (through the massaging effects of changing interest rates) some inflation, so that the returned value on debts is paid back with little tiny dollars. What a scam! They must disparage gold to maintain this ability to skim the cream off the top of the productivity of those subjects who are forced to worship at the altar of the Federal Reserve Note.

Gold is an affront to all that is deceitful.


Peter Asher (09/07/00; 23:01:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 36228)
Journeyman & Caven Man & All
http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/novak071.html

Journeyman: Your dichotomy of the consumer/producer conflict in the perception of individuals is a superb tool to evaluate the paradox in what people want and don't want from Government. Also it reminded me, and dovetails with my "Other Guy" syndrome from Peter Asher (08/07/99; Msg ID:10582) @ http://www.usagold.com/hall/HallWinners.html#anchor1632126

>>> What becomes lost is the reality that, regardless of how much money one or all has, the goods and services obtainable are ultimately only created by production. This is the state of a society when, to obtain money, it becomes immersed in the activity of trading rather than producing. In trade, the wealth must come from someone else. For every trader's profit there must eventually be another trader's loss. Even if the man in Atlanta knew this, he was a member of a society that believes that it's the other girl who gets pregnant, the other guy who causes it, the other driver who can't hold his liquor, and the other criminal who gets caught. Naturally, it's the other guy who loses in the Market. But of course that's also what the other guy thinks. If millions are made in day trading, then millions must be lost in it. <<<

What we have arrived at is a society of individuals who would prefer an unethical Government where the opportunity exists to exploit the others. People will take the chance that they will be one of the winners of the Lion's share rather than be guaranteed an ethical fair share of a division of labor economy. It's the "Other Guys" that will be the losers.

This, I fear, is why there is so little response to The Libertarian Cause, whether Harry Browne or Ron Paul. Leaders, in the end are created by followers and we are a minority in this "Collective Anarchy" called Democracy.

Having read this you should not be surprised by the following paragraph today from the above link ---

>>>Still, Republican morale is drooping. I have heard from more than one Republican politician that the problem may not be Bush's at all, but the American people's. Could it be, they ask, that
voters--while enjoying prosperity--really want more government instead of less? No Republican could fight that mind-set of the electorate. <<<

TownCrier (09/07/00; 22:20:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 36227)
Sir oldgold...
You're sure right about there being an adminstrative tendency to cheer higher dollars and higher stocks, but oil and gold is to be kept underfoot. Sure makes it tough on those particular industries.

A thought about your comment,

"One difference between now and the 1970s oil shock is that the dollar was weak then, but is very strong now. So the impact on the rest of the world was mitigated to a certain extent in the 1970s, but is being exacerbated today by the surging buck."

What about the pricing and exchange rate math? Sure the dollar is strong relative to other currencies, but if the dollar were weaker today, wouldn't the price of oil currently be much higher as a result. In the end, after multiplying by exchange rates, wouldn't a higher price in weaker dollars translate into the same foreign prices as gotten from a lower price in stronger dollars? But certainly, where these exchange rates are concerned, the dollar gets a boost regardless of its current strength or oil price as foreign currencies must bid for dollars at the forex desk in order to make their international settlements. Wouldn't it be that insidious effect which is tending to throw rates out of balance and acts as a supporting cause of foreign weakness?

I guess I'm asking you, is oil priced for total value or simply for a currency number? If a certain target value is sought, the price in any given currency will rise or fall based on its individual strength/value, and after the appropriate exchange rates are applied, would there be any mitigating factor for others based on dollar strength or weakness? After the math is done, foreign oil buyers would be parting with the target value, regardless.

Simply Me (09/07/00; 22:03:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 36226)
Clinton shows his true colors.
http://www.sltrib.com/09072000/nation_w/nation_w.htm
From The Salt Lake Tribune...9/7/2000

In speaking at the UN Millennium Summit....
<snip>
Clinton strongly backed Annan's controversial
call for the international community to intervene to
protect civilians from ethnically based terror and
other gross human-rights abuses -- overriding
national sovereignty if necessary.
<unsnip>

BEWARE: What a man will do for you, he will also do to you.
simply me


Chris Powell (09/07/00; 21:52:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 36225)
World Gold Council gives up on gold
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/522
Third story about GATA in two weeks
in the Frankfurter Allgemeine.


To subscribe to GATA's dispatches
by email and get them immediately so
you don't have to go look for them,
send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com


Marius (09/07/00; 21:33:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 36224)
Journeyman, RockGrabber
Journeyman,

What are you, nuts? Of course we don't want you to "stop at any time"!

RockGrabber,

You're not alone in questioning your own santiy re: trading gold options! I remain long in options, even knowing what I know about how rigged this market is. Why? Because sooner or later the shorts will blow up, the price will go up, and the position will pay off in (yes, I know it's a dirty word) dollars! I've financed my "gold jones" by being long crude oil at this amazing time. My last trade tripled my money in two weeks. How else could I put premium in my Maxima's tank, and be sanguine about being long Dec. '00 gold?

M

oldgold (09/07/00; 21:21:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 36223)
Town Crier
You will NEVER hear Clinton say that the dollar is too high. or stock prices. For these the higher the better. But heaven forbid that oil producers (or gold producers for that matter) should get decent price for their product.

One difference between now and the 1970s oil shock is that the dollar was weak then, but is very strong now. So the impact on the rest of the world was mitigated to a certain extent in the 1970s, but is being exacerbated today by the surging buck.

The dollar looks to be in its final blowoff run now. No telling how high it might go in this run, but the aftermath is certain to be a BIG DROP. And possibly a new international monetary system giving gold a bigger role.

SHIFTY (09/07/00; 21:09:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 36222)
Journeyman
No problem here.
:)
$hifty

Journeyman (09/07/00; 20:58:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 36221)
How many more? @Shifty

Depending on how I put them together, it looks like five or six more sections.

But if asked, I could stop at any time!!

Regards,
Journeyman


Al Fulchino (09/07/00; 20:34:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 36220)
Important Read/Not about gold but another reason to own it
Federal agencies share taxpayer info from Web sites
By LANCE GAY
Scripps Howard News Service
September 07, 2000

WASHINGTON - At least four federal agencies are sharing taxpayer data they are gathering from Internet visitors to government Web sites with trade organizations, retailers or other outside parties, congressional investigators say.

In a survey of online-privacy protections at government-run Web sites, the General Accounting Office found that 23 of 70 agencies surveyed have disclosed personal information gathered from Web sites to third parties, mostly other government agencies. But at least four agencies were found sharing information with private entities.

The GAO is a congressional unit that audits federal programs.

Some privacy advocates said the findings show the need to update a 1974 Privacy Act, which forbids government agencies from sharing with outsiders information they collect from taxpayers, but was drafted before computers were widely used.

"It's time to strengthen this important law for the Internet age,'' said Ari Schwartz, policy analyst with the Center for Democracy and Technology.

Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said the report clearly shows the White House isn't effectively enforcing Privacy Act provisions on executive branch agencies. "It's a surprisingly good law,'' Rotenberg said. "I think the big issue here is oversight and enforcement of the Privacy Act."

The GAO investigation was launched a year ago on a request by Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., to find out how government agencies are handling privacy issues on their Web sites. Lieberman has spearheaded efforts on the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee to oversee government use of the Internet to provide information to taxpayers.

GAO investigators said many of the privacy problems with government Web sites they uncovered could be addressed by the White House Office of Management and Budget issuing more specific guidelines on what information government agencies can release.

Office of Management and Budget guidelines forbid dissemination of "substantial" personal information, but they don't tell agencies what that means, or "whether such information as Social Security numbers and credit card numbers qualify as substantial personal information," the GAO said.

In its survey of 70 government agencies, congressional investigators classified "substantial" personal information as being a person's name, e-mail address, postal address, telephone number, Social Security number or credit card numbers. The investigation found 23 agencies shared information with other government agencies, and four said they share information with private-sector entities.

The agencies were not named. The outside parties included trade organizations, bilateral development banks, product manufacturers, distributors and retailers.

Sally Katzen, deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget, said the GAO report didn't reflect considerable progress the Clinton administration has made in persuading government agencies to pay attention to privacy issues.

Web sites run by the White House itself have been embroiled in privacy concerns. In June, Scripps Howard News Service reported that Internet sites run by the White House drug czar's office were secretly putting "cookie" programs in the computers of visitors to track what they were doing on the site.

Office of Management and Budget Director Jacob Lew ordered drug czar Barry McCaffrey to turn off the cookie machine, and issued a governmentwide directive stating that cookies programs can only be used in rare cases, and only if their use is approved by the agency's director.

The GAO survey found seven agencies used cookies, which are small software programs inserted in a visitor's computer. Cookies programs are used by advertising firms to track Internet users' activities, and can be combined with other data to compile profiles of individual Internet users.


On the Net: GAO is at htpp://www.gao.gov





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Lance Gay is a reporter for Scripps Howard News Service.)






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GENERAL LINE: 1.202.408.1484 FAX: 1.202.408.5950
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© 2000 Scripps Howard News Service.

All Rights Reserved.




John Doe (09/07/00; 20:11:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 36219)
Unconstrained fiat is but a symptom...
A society forms as its common truths become self-evident and decays as its shared lies finally lose their allure.

SHIFTY (09/07/00; 20:06:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 36218)
Journeyman
I have been enjoying your posts.
I think it is best we save comments until you have delivered your work. I just did a bit of cutting and pasting and sent myself the three posts so far. I will re-read them before I ask questions or make comments. I read so much stuff every day I know I will need to refresh my memory before making comments.
How many more segments do you have?

$hifty

TownCrier (09/07/00; 20:02:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 36217)
There is more here than meets the eye...the present monetary system is on shakey ground
http://www.thestar.com/editorial/updates/business/200009080_CLINTON-OIL.html
I hope everyone had a chance to read Sir WAC's 7:33 post this morning of Anthony Hilton's perspective-building article on the latest economic boom and the oil factor. I would like to point out two elements that Hilton reported. First: "The oil price hit a 10-year high in London on Tuesday when the September price hit $36 and the more representative October price topped $33. Eighteen months ago it was close to eight. The big question no one wants to face up to is whether the new economy can stand an old-fashioned oil shock. By any measure, a quadrupling of oil prices in 18 months constitutes a shock...[and yet] the price of oil in real terms is well below what it rose to in the 1970s, when it plunged the world into recession and sparked off the inflationary spiral which took 20 years to run its course." However, Hilton reassures, "This shock may be more muted and adjustment might be easier because it has arrived over 18 months rather than overnight, as happened in 1973 and 1980. We are certainly better placed to afford it."

The price of oil has certainly risen, but in real (and historical) terms, just how expensive is it? Mr. Hilton reported the following information:

"the price of oil in real terms is well below what it rose to in the 1970s...We are less profligate with oil than we were 25 years ago, making a given amount go perhaps 25 per cent further...
18 months ago when [oil] prices were below $10...in real terms, was one-fifth of the price in the early 1980s, and indeed half the price it was way back in the 1950s...it needs to rise to $90 to be the same now in real terms as in 1973. And yet the threat is there, and it does not actually take much these days to knock an economy on the head. If a few bankers and financiers take fright, the transmission mechanism of the world's stock markets give a clear signal to everyone else to panic."

The above data reveals that oil remains actually quite cheap, and yet the concern abounds...apparently because our present monetary system is that much weaker and incapable of
handling the strain.

For evidence it is appropriate to turn to the article I've linked above, with the headline: "Fearing recession, Clinton urges OPEC to boost output"

The Associated Press reported today that with prices spiking to a 10-year high, President Bill Clinton met with Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah on the sidelines of the U.N. Millennium Summit. He later told reporters of his meeting, "I told him that I was very concerned that the price of oil was too high, not just for America but for the world; that if it's a cause of recession in any part of the world, that would hurt the oil producing countries," adding also, "I certainly hoped that when OPEC met [Sunday in Vienna] there would be an increase in production because that was the policy they adopted."

The Energy Department said so far "those increases have not been apparent" to the market, and subsequently predicted that heating oil will be 30% higher than last winter, natural gas 27% higher.

With oil prices currently only one-third of the equivalent 1973 price, it seems to me that President Clinton does not have a leg to stand on when he tries to make his claim that "the price of oil was too high, not just for America but for the world." It seems to me that if he were truly worried about the price of oil to the rest of the world, he would encourage OPEC to set their prices lower in terms of any other currency that they might value more highly. Ha! You'll never see him make that pitch. To the U.S. administration, any high price remains the best we can hope for as long as it is denominated in dollars. It is our national advantage that would be lost under alternative currency pricing, though the rest of the world would likely come out ahead.

With rising energy prices that are still well-shy of the 1973 equivalent ($90), are you inclined to entrust your financial well-being upon the future purchasing power of the dollar and health of the markets?

Topaz (09/07/00; 19:56:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 36216)
goldhunter (09/07/00; 07:09:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 36182)
Hi Goldhunter,
Can you please explain the mechanics of US$600 POG ie: How do we get there?
Are we to expect a slow, gradual increase - or a more explosive scenario?
Do you anticipate the "fallout" along the way to include 1. The hedged Miners 2. The Bullion Banks 3. The US$ or perhaps 4. the "System" in-toto?
The perception would be $600 pog = US inflation @ 25+% Yes? (just a guess)
FWIW my impression is "YES" half the world would dearly like to see a controlled burn to $600 pog - but alas, it's not "your" half <smile>

RossL (09/07/00; 19:33:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 36215)
Unilateral free trade

I am in favor of unilateral free trade. If another sovereign entity erects barriers to the free movement of goods, then the best solution to that situation is that the largest free trade nation will just ignore them. Let them erect their little "berlin walls"... it will do us no good to erect a "berlin wall" of our own in retaliation, will it?


Bonedaddy (09/07/00; 19:06:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 36214)
It's official, Clinton says the price of oil threatens economy
Those bad old Saudis. Don't they know that their greed could put an end to the "greatest peace time expansion in history"? Don't they know that America the Beautiful has the God given right to print as much money as we see fit?
So what, if it is the world reserve currency and everybody else gets screwed? Al Gore gave them the internet, for God's sake! What a bunch of ingrates. I would have liked to have been a mouse in the corner when Bill gave that prince what's his name a piece of America's mind.

"Ya gotta' be a team player now prince. Now ol' Ronnie Brown, he wussn't a team player."


Journeyman (09/07/00; 18:53:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 36213)
Free-trade posts @Al Fulchino, ALL

If we all manage to hold out till I finish posting this monstrosity I seem to have birthed over the last three weeks, I will attempt to comment on the counter-posts, etc. Unless I run out of steam. I'm archiving each one!

Thanx for your patience -- and regards,
Journeyman


Bonedaddy (09/07/00; 18:51:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 36212)
The Gendarmes are comming!
Link to the article from the Drudge report
news | World | Europe
France may send in troops to end protest

By John Lichfield in Caen

8 September 2000
The French government hinted yesterday that it was prepared to use troops and police to free the country's oil supplies from a crippling four-day barricade by trucks, tractors, taxis and ambulances.

Although tough state action of this kind is rare in France, it would not be unprecedented. Special army tanks for obstacle clearing were used to lift a siege of oil refineries by hauliers in 1992. The veiled warning by French ministers came as truck-owners', taxi-drivers' and farmers' protests against high oil prices brought tempers to boiling point and large parts of France to a near standstill. The European Commission demanded assurances from the French government within 24 hours that it was doing everything possible to maintain free trade and movement within Europe.

British motorists briefly barricaded one carriageway of the A16 motorway near Calais yesterday in retaliation for a partial blockade of the Channel Tunnel freight terminal. Although the car entrance to the tunnel shuttle, and another freight entrance, were kept open by French police, the British drivers grew tired of delays imposed by the farmers' barricade.

They briefly parked their vehicles across the other carriageway of the motorway, blocking traffic heading in the other direction. Although there was no direct threat of intervention by the French government to end the four-day refinery blockade, the justice, interior and defence ministers all made strong statements yesterday warning that France could no longer be "held to ransom". The Defence Minister, Alain Richard, said the blockade could pose a threat not just to the economy but to the "security" of the French nation. That comment was widely interpreted as a justification for intervention by the army and gendarmerie, both of which come under Mr Richard's control.
Four-fifths of the petrol stations in France were estimated by oil companies last night to be out of fuel or likely to have exhausted supplies today.

news | World | Europe Up How 'Operation escargot' slowly
drove a country to a standstill

© 2000 Independent
Digital (UK) Ltd.

Subscribe to the print
edition





Gandalf the White (09/07/00; 18:36:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 36211)
Now speakith the PRES ! hahahahahaha
Associated Press reported the President Clinton fears the high cost of oil could lead to a recession in the roaring U.S. economy or elsewhere in the world.
"I told him I was very concerned that the price of oil is too high, not just for America but for the world," Clinton said after meeting with Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah at the U.N. Millennium Summit.
=====
FOA/TG -- Could this person be showing a WESTERN viewpoint?
<;-)


Al Fulchino (09/07/00; 17:56:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 36210)
Journeyman
re me #36298
I posted that note while I was at work and the timing may have been seen as a challenge to your Free trade series. It wasn't. I enjoyed what you wrote. It was just bad timing on my part.

Journeyman (09/07/00; 17:46:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 36209)
Not for the faint of heart or guilt ridden @ALL
http://www.zolatimes.com/V4.36/the_day.html

"Flushing out the Loo." Is it time to clean up the Great American Mess? This guy thinks so, and gives some tips how -- and some motivation to get started.

Regards, J.


Al Fulchino (09/07/00; 16:23:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 36208)
Free trade? Sure! It is children's play
I here much about free trade. And most of it is wonderful and even idealistic. BUT! Let us pretend for a moment. So all of us need to put on our USAGOLD Viirtual Reality Glasses for a moment. Let us make the rule that anything that is your ideal about what free trade is, will be law and carried out by all. No taxes? DONE! No silly bureaucratic intereferences? DONE! etc. etc. etc. Now! Put mankind in the mix. Here is the trouble. You are going to have to keep the virtual reality glasses ON, if you want your ideal to hold water. Because once we take off our glasses, we get children who take other children's toys and older children who won't let you play in their country. <This all goes back to all that Buchanan stuff of a few weeks back, of course>
Free trade is relative. Can it be perfect? Yes. But it is a long time coming. And if you really believe in it, then you have to want a strong willed country and leaders who will champion free trade, but not be afraid to say to the other child, "Fine, you don't share your toys <markets>, we won't share either. We would rather get along with you, but we will not be taken advantage of. That is that."

CoBra(too) (09/07/00; 16:11:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 36207)
A (very) brief summary of FAZ - article
The FAZ headline, under the section Financial Markets and Investing
Thursday, Sept. 7. 2000, No. 208/Page 33

"The Conspiracy Theory on the goldmarket is misguided and wrong"

World Gold Council and GFMS: The arguments are not valid/Critique on GATA's Misinformation (Part 3.)

London, 6. Sept. The Conspiracy theory on the gold market disseminated by Gold Anti Trust Action Committee (GATA)is being rejected by WGC and GFMS. A market analysis by gold expert Jessica Cross for the WGC, could not find any indications toward a conspiracy of market participants or other sinister machinations. Der WGC is a pooling agreement of gold producing companies (rest of chapter missing).
The article goes on stating GATA's short history and goals citing Bill Murphy and Chris Powell.
Then repeating their (WGC & GFMS) allegations that GATA is wrong and citing all their numbers on gold derivatives...
" If someone thinks to have evidence for a conspiracy of the goldmarket, then he should take legal action" say's Jessica Cross citing GATA's allegations.
Since it's a pretty longish article I'll just give you the gist from here on, since Bill will have a complete translation asap.
WGC/GFMS talks about GATA being unable to retain a serious anti trust law firm, alleges GATA as an investment group being long gold at the wrong time, citing Gold Derivative Banking Crisis and misenterpretation and inconsequential assertations.
All in all it is the same jumble of the usual mainstream media, we're all used to for too long. Praising the new economy without any inflation pressures and the belief, that
gold will not dramatically rise anytime soon, since the CB's are selling low yielding gold assets and the demand for gold as an investment (for inflation)is passe'.
Interestingly, they won't even debate their stance openly. Do WGC/GFMS have a hidden cause to refuse debating their numbers? Regards cb2


Al Fulchino (09/07/00; 15:59:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 36206)
Peter Asher
Peter, Thanks for the nice story.

Al Fulchino (09/07/00; 15:54:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 36205)
Journeyman
I wasn't despairing. <smile>

Journeyman (09/07/00; 15:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 36204)
Free-trade III: The Ugly @ALL

PREVIOUS INSTALLMENTS: Journeyman (09/05/00; msg#: 36076)
.. . . . . . . . . . . Journeyman (9/6/2000; msg#: 36133)

So far we've discovered in previous installments that the
establishment in general doesn't like free trade in free markets
-- _at all_ -- and that the "only one" who _does_ like free-trade
is our schizophrenic "consumer" half. The establishment doesn't
like free trade because competition for our consumer's money
causes the intense competition and pricing pressures inherent in
free markets.

We've also learned that because of the knowledge we each gain in
doing our jobs -- and the machines (capital equipment) we develop
as a result -- we are each more efficient at what we do than are
"non-professionals" attempting the same thing. The logical
offshoot is that _in general_ it's better for us each to do what
we do best and trade for most other things. Economists call this
"comparative advantage," and it's why we have to be crazy _NOT_
to trade. Also because of this, interfering with trade is
generally _not_ "in the common interest." (However, don't
dispair, Al, Shifty, etc. - - - there _are_ at least three
logical arguments _against_ free trade under certain
circumstances.)

I'm sure you probably couldn't sleep last night just wondering
what would happen in this next installment. Well, HERE it is!!

_Free markets don't exist_

A free market is a theoretical geographical area in which people
can trade anything they own for anything others own and are
willing to trade --- and at what ever "price" they agree to
without any coercion --- and no interference by ANY unwanted
third parties in any way what-so-ever. No rules, regulations,
orders, or controls. No taxes. No protections for either
"buyers" (those with "money" to trade) or sellers (those traders
who want to trade FOR "money") unless they agree to such between
(or among) themselves. _Certainly_ no protection for the "vested
interests of entrepreneurs, capitalists, land-owners, and
workers" or any other non-participating (establishment) traders
simply because they don't like the competiton!

As I think you can see, we don't have any free markets in
the united States, except perhaps in the case of private
transactions that ignore all the rules, regulations, orders and
controls - - - and if the people involved don't pay any "Taxes,
Duties, Imposts and Excises" to unwanted third parties. In a
major perversion of fact and practice, such unhampered free-
market transactions are regularly labeled as occuring in a "black
market" -- because, remember, the _establishment_ (including
_our_ seller half) doesn't like the effects on _our_ prices of
free-market competition.

As things evolve in "real life," collecting taxes quickly becomes
the main focus of market-place interference -- which is
completely understandable. Which institution not only initiates
but primarily benefits from the collection of tax money? That's
why in government-speak, "black market" quickly evolves to mean,
"We didn't get our taxes." I would suggest that "black market"
would be a much more appropriate term for any market invaded by
largely unwanted third-party government vat-smashers and loom-
stealers in the interest of restricting competition --- but
primarily to collect taxes.

Clearly even here in the freest country in the world, we rarely
have free trade in free markets. THEREFORE, ANY ARGUMENTS THAT
THE ANTI-FREE-TRADE FOLKS MAKE AMOUNT TO, "CURRENT TRADE SHOULD
BE MADE EVEN MORE UN-FREE AND RESTRICTED THAN IT ALREADY IS."

_Apparent winners (sellers) and definite losers (buyers)_

Since even "here in the freest country in the world, we rarely
have free trade in free markets," and despite the fact that free-
trade is "in the common interest," it would seem that the anti-
free-trade forces are firmly in control. In essence, this is
exactly true. Since within each of us lurks both a seller _and_
a buyer, why is it our _seller_ seems to be thoroughly trouncing
our buyer?

My personal favorite illustration of how this is done and why
this is so is the operation of the various "Dairy Control
Commissions," governmental entities which exist in many states
purportedly to "control" or "police" the dairy industry.

First, if you believe we're free, you might wonder why such
_governmental_ bodies as "Milk Control Commissions" exist in the
first place. Once you learn how they operate, you'll wonder no
more. You see, despite the rhetoric and illusory claimed health
protection functions [*1*], the real reason dairy commissions
exist is to set the _floor_ price for milk. That is, these
commissions set the _lowest_ price dairy farmers can legally
charge for the milk they sell us.

Let me attempt to make this perfectly clear: Milk control
commissions make it illegal for dairy farmers to sell you milk at
low prices. Any farmer undercutting the official floor price
gets busted by the cops. On the other hand, these commissions
say _nothing_ about how high the prices dairymen charge you can
be. They could charge you a million dollars a gallon for all the
commissions care. Guess who serves as "milk commissioners."

I didn't figure you needed a multiple choice. The answer is of
course, "dairy farmers." The reason is economic: A few extra
cents a gallon isn't enough for individual consumers to be able
to afford the legal or political effort to do away with such
"milk control" entities. On the other hand a nickel a gallon in
extra profits times, say, 10,000 gallons of milk a day amounts to
$15,000 per 30-day month for a dairy farmer, ample motivation to
fight to maintain the advantages their seller-half gets from
these proto-fascist "milk control" organizations.

Consumers usually buy only in small increments here and there,
while suppliers on the other hand, as in the case of the dairy
farmers, sell in much bigger "lots" with much higher stakes to
them -- that nickel a gallon adds up -- which makes it worth-
while for them to "purchase" various forms of "competition
protection" from the government. As quipped by businessman
Johnny Chung in 1997 during the Clinton fundraising scandal
hearings, "I see the White House is like a subway -- you have to
put in coins to open the gates." This is the type of thing Ralph
Nader and others see so clearly when he speaks of "the corporate
state." [*2*]

Even here in the freest country in the world there are huge
numbers of other examples of ploys by businesses using government
to protect our seller-half from the free market competition
otherwise caused by our buyer half. *Thus there's traditionally
always been at least a clandestine alliance of government with
business in the interest of surpressing free trade*. [*3*] In the
battle between sellers (suppliers) and buyers (consumers), then,
this alliance is the main reason why sellers are clearly winning.

In addition to this economic advantage of suppliers over
consumers, there's another psychological factor that favors our
sellers over our buyers and helps explain the trouncing: What
good are free markets if you can't buy from them because
competition has eliminated your job?

NOTES:

1. As it turns out, such commissions allow feces, etc. in your
milk, as long as that milk is pasturized. Clean dairying, a much
more acceptible solution to most consumers, is harrassed and
essentially outlawed. You can see for yourself by looking into
the continual harrassment of businesses engaged in such clean
dairying. One of the most widely publicized is harrassment of
Alta-Deana Dairy by California "authorities." Milk Control
Commissions also foster "homogenization" done in a way that
causes homogenized milk to cause atherosclerotic plaques in our
arteries.

2. This doesn't mean I support or would vote for Nader --
remember, if I weren't a devout non-voter, I'd vote for
libertarian Harry Browne.

3. Eisenhower, Marx, and even seminal free-trader Adam Smith
perceived this. Apparently Ike only saw part of the problem
since in his farwell address he only warned us about the
"military-industrial complex" part of the problem.

COMING NEXT: Free-trade IV: The Good, the Bad AND the Ugly --
_Lost jobs_

Regards,
Journeyman


CoBra(too) (09/07/00; 15:10:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 36203)
FAZ, again carrying an article on GATA
... Though this time they " The gold market is not manipulated" and prove it with Jessica Cross's numbers on her last WGC assignment, which was discussed here and was dissected by Sharefin on the Metropole cafe. They also rely on GFMS trash.
The gold producers funding WGC should start thinking about what kind of vermin their funding and why?
Anyway, I can assure you Bill Murphy is happy about developments, since they're now out in the open - even if they're hiding under a German language paper flag, they must be aware that the group has some able interpreters and open to debate, as they've swallowed the bait.
This may be warming up soon. Best cb2




Rockgrabber (09/07/00; 12:48:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 36202)
OldGold
That is what I wonder. If the dollar stays strong or even gets stronger Who will beable to afford Gold? The only ones from my perspective that could buy would still be the ones not looking far enough ahead to even want it at a cheap price. Why is the world so cursed so as to have to buy oil with dollars. Is it not feasable for countries to have to pay with Gold. A currency not atatched to a country. But then what is the Gold price priced to? Anything must be more fair then making them pay for our good furtune. Seems like a joke to me. The world has to buy there oil with our dollars. Who made them do this? Where does the IMF/World Bank stand on this? Buy the way dont they have there own currency devolped? What is it going to take to get them to release that junk to the world?

oldgold (9/7/2000; 12:21:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 36201)
USA GOLD
There is strong evidence that gold prices no longer have much to do with inflation, but everything to do with the US dollar and the ability of the bullion banks to maintain their huge short positions.

The best indicator of future inflation generally is thought to be the Columbia Business School Leading Inflation Index. This turned up sharply im mid 1999 and has been trending strongly higher until very recently. But gold did nothing while this leading inflation indicator was soaring. But now that this indicator shows signs of topping out gold and gold stocks are acting as though they will go up before long.

The key is the dollar. Gold did nothing as inflationary pressures were picking up because the dollar was moving up at the same time. Gold will move big time when the dollar gets hit regardless of inflation. And if the dolalr stays strong, the upside for gold is quite limited even if inflation reaches double digits




Rockgrabber (9/7/2000; 12:18:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 36200)
(No Subject)
I know one thing last year I lost 22,000 in Gold Option trading. Not bad at all compared to many. But it is still 100 percent of what I used. Sure I had times were I was up plenty, but of course I did not get out. But all of my coins and silver bars are still with me (only down a few percent on that stuff, instead of 100). But I still wish so bad to to trade those dang options its killing me..... With oil so strong, and the world having to buy oil(and Gold) in dollars, Does that in itself make the dollar strong? Does this artificially strengthen the dollar more then it should be?

SHIFTY (9/7/2000; 11:27:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 36199)
Peter Asher
Peter: That was a good story. Your a regular Paul Harvey!

Off to cut grass.
$hifty

wolavka (9/7/2000; 11:22:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 36198)
Joke
Okay, so I have to wait till tomorrow till oct. options expire before you blow the pog up.

Get on with it.

Peter Asher (9/7/2000; 11:14:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 36197)
Tangential subject
-- by Malcolm Forbes

A lady in a faded gingham dress and her husband, dressed in a homespun
threadbare suit, stepped off the train in Boston and walked timidly without
an appointment into the Harvard University president's outer office.The
secretary could tell in a moment that such backwoods, country hicks had no
business at Harvard and probably didn't even deserve to be inCambridge.
She frowned."We want to see the President," the man said softly.
"He'll be busy all day," the secretary snapped.
"We'll wait," the lady replied.
For hours, the secretary ignored them, hoping that the couple would
finally become discouraged and go away. They didn't, and the secretary grew
frustrated and finally decided to disturb the president, even though it was
a chore she always regretted. "Maybe if they just see you for a few
minutes," she said, in exasperation.
Someone of his importance obviously didn't have the time to spend
with them, but he detested gingham dresses and homespun suits cluttering
up his outer office. The president, stern-faced with dignity,
strutted toward the couple.
The lady told him, "We had a son who attended Harvard for one year.
He loved Harvard. He was happy here. But about a year ago, he was
accidentall killed. My husband and I would like to erect a memorial to him,
somewhere on campus."
The President wasn't touched; he was shocked. "Madam," he said
gruffly. "We can't put up a statue for every person who attended
Harvard and died.If we did, this place would look like a cemetery."
"Oh, no," the lady explained quickly. "We don't want to erect a
statue. We thought we would like to give a building to Harvard."
The president rolled his eyes. He glanced at the gingham dress and
homespun suit, then exclaimed, "A building! Do you have any earthly
idea how much a building costs? We have over seven and a half
million dollars in the physical plant at Harvard."
For a moment the lady was silent. The president was pleased. He could
get rid of them now. The lady turned to her husband and said quietly, "Is
that all it costs to start a university? Why don't we just start our own?"
Her husband nodded. The president's face wilted in confusion and bewilderment.
Mr. and Mrs. Leland Stanford walked away, traveling to Palo Alto,
California, where they established the University that bears their
name, a memorial to a son whom Harvard no longer cared about.

You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those
who can do nothing for them or to them.


fox (9/7/2000; 10:54:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 36196)
Brussels
anywone comment on this ?
thanks
Fox

fox (9/7/2000; 10:54:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 36195)
Brussels
anywone comment on this ?
thanks
Fox

Gold Trail Update (9/7/2000; 10:54:03MDT - Msg ID:36194)
The Gold Trail Discussion has been Updated
The Gold Trail Discussion has been updated. Click on the link to read the latest updates.

fox (9/7/2000; 10:53:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 36193)
Brussels
anywone comment on this ?
thanks
Fox

fox (9/7/2000; 10:51:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 36192)
Brussels stock exhange
news
De-listing of B-Gold Options; Changes in Index Rules <br><br>

The Executive Committee of Brussels Exchanges (BXS) has decided to gradually de-list the options on the B-Gold index, mainly due to the fact that the index-rules only allow South African gold-mines listed on BXS to be part of the index and also due to the consolidation movements in this sector. <br><br>


On the other hand, considering the open interest in the options, the Executive Committee has decided that the last expiry date will be the 16th March 2001, being the longest available expiry today. Furthermore, no options with expiry dates after March 2001 will be created. <br><br>

Nevertheless, and in order to allow investors to manage their portfolios, options will be created with intermediate expiry dates, following the general rules of BXS-Derivatives.
<br><br>

In case one or more stocks of the index would no longer be listed on Brussels Exchanges, following any action such as a merger or take-over, the new entity –if listed- will replace the outgoing company included in the index, in order to ensure continuity, even if this entity would not be a South African company.
<br><br>

At a later stage, the composition (and possibly the name) of the index will take into account the evolution of the sector through its internationalization.
<br><br>

For more details contact Mr. Vincent Van Dessel on +322 509 13 44.


wolavka (9/7/2000; 9:51:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 36191)
hang on bugs
soon, it's gonna go. 278 + close in dec very positive

Rockgrabber (9/7/2000; 9:32:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 36190)
(No Subject)
If the dollar looses much of its value, and oil becomes cheaper for other areas, Does the dollar even stand a chance at loosing its strength when everone has to use dollars to buy oil? And as the price is going up they need more dollars. What if the dollar lost much of its value, I suppose that in its self would make for oil even go up. But the price of oil seems hard pressed to keep its self going if the dollar keeps its stength or keeps strengthinging. But if the dollar lost value oil must really rip. What type of event at present might one see that can knock the strenght of the dollar? I mean shoot even if they want gold first they need dollars... All of that must help artificially strenghten the dollar even more. And it must really stim the demand for asnything that must be bought with dollars when they are so strong. So to see Gold so low against a strong dollar is not real surprising as Americans are provided with the low gold price when the dollar is strong. What a perfect bunch of scapegoats, Americans would be the last people on earth to depart with there hard earned dollars for GOLD. And I dont think it is because they are so bright. Anyhow Oil would really fly if the dollar lost value I think wouldint it? Or are there tons of other variables? Anyways Gold sure would, I see that anyways. I just wonder what it takes for the dollar to shed all of its extra pounds, as that seems to be one overwieght currency.

USAGOLD (9/7/2000; 8:53:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 36189)
Wisp of Inflationary Smoke Seen Drifting above This Best of All Possible Worlds
DAILY COMMENTARY


(9/7/00) www.USAGOLD.com . . .Gold continued to drift lower despite oil's "major league" pop up yesterday -- up over $1 at nearly $35 per barrel -- and a technically predictable recovery in the euro and yen. Whether or not those recoveries represent anything other than a welcome respite from the shelling remains to be seen. Oil, on the other hand, looks very much like it's for real, along with other redoubtable signs of inflation just about everywhere you look, including within most of the economies of the world running above subsistence levels.

This "New" Reality for the "New" Economy amazes some, befuddles others and sends still other scurrying about to find an explanation. Seems there's always some of the "old" in the "new" no matter how much we try to make ourselves believe that our history is substantially more enlightened than that of our predecessors -- that, this time, we have conquered the worst aspects of the economic cycle and ourselves. In the end, this never proves to be the case though it always sounds good and sells well until we are forced to look back at it after the inevitable turn in history's march -- turn for the worse, that is. Meanwhile government departments responsible for reporting on such developments devise ever new and more clever ways of keeping the general public from finding out this economy's dirty little secret:

Take for example this report published by the Boston Globe just this morning as a case in point. Please note the differences in the economic milieu as described here and that revealed by the government's numbers:


The unemployment rate ticked up a bit in August. Consumers aren't spending as freely as they once did. The economy as a whole seems to be slowing down.So how do you explain the fact that big chunks of the economy appear to be bursting at the seams, with demand outrunning supply and prices climbing at a scary rate?

Consider a few examples:

The price of oil hit almost $35 a barrel yesterday on fears that oil-producing nations will not pump enough oil this winter. The current price represents a 10-year high. A year ago oil sold for $18 a barrel; in January 1999 the price was $11.

Natural gas prices are twice as high as they were a year and a half ago. Parts of the country have experienced sharp spikes in the price of electricity as utilities scramble to come up with enough power. In California some customers have seen their bills triple. Locally, the electric utilities are asking for rate hikes of up to 12 percent this fall.

The price of air travel has climbed 9.5 percent over the past year. Planes are full, the skies are congested, and the number of late flights is at a record high.

In Boston, the cost of renting an apartment has increased 9 percent in the past year and for two-bedroom apartments, more than 80 percent over the past five years. According to one account, there were only 150 apartments available for rent this September citywide, about one-third the usual number. In the regular housing market the story is much the same: lots of demand, little supply, and rising prices.

''Pressing against the limits is the story of this economy,'' said Fred Breimyer, chief economist at State Street Corp.


One cannot ignore the total absence of the word "inflation" in the article -- but nevertheless the reality reported in the article is a far cry from the one revealed in government inflation numbers. All the while, gold remains comfortably in check and Wall Street analysts can continue fantasizing that inflation is not a problem. "For consummate proof," they will say for the upteenth time, "all one need do is look at the anemic performance of the number one inflation indicator -- yellow metal." Like the unflagging optimist who fixes his attention on the only tree left standing after a wildfire and notes: "See. I told you there wasn't any fire," these analysts see what they want to see, or better put what best serves the bottom line. One wonders through all of this how much longer the worldwide investment community will continue to digest such pablum without getting a bit of indigestion, or at least feel the nagging twinge of doubt that all's still well in this best of all possible worlds.

That's it for today, my fellow goldmeisters. More tomorrow.

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White Hills (9/7/2000; 8:36:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 36188)
Greenspan Letter
In a letter August 25 to Chairman of the House Banking Committee"s capital markets subcommittee, Greenspan urges Congress to review lower-cost financing and other government subsidies enjoyed by giant mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. One very interesting statement by Greenspan might lead one to believe there is more to it than meets the eye "Subsidies accorded to GSEs (government-sponsored enterprises) are, of necessity at the expense of other federal or private sector initiatives and hence are ultimately financed by households, either through taxes or through the reduced accumulation of wealth," Greespan said. Do you think he is losing control and is worrying about the Treasury creating money through these type of companies? White Hills

wolavka (9/7/2000; 8:21:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 36187)
dec cattle
I like them, no steaks left in texas. Burnt up.

WAC (Wide Awake Club) (09/07/00; 07:33:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 36186)
Boom in the City (London) - Good Read
This is another excellent article by Anthony Hilton.

Boom in the City

by Anthony Hilton.

It's a bit of a shock coming back from holiday. Just a few
weeks ago the Labour Government was squabbling and the Prime Minister had lost his sureness of touch, businessmen were moaning about the high pound, stock markets and house buyers were preoccupied with the threat of interest rate rises to come.

Even the much vaunted computer and dotcom stocks
were seen to have feet of clay, while the macho types who run the world's mobile phone companies seemed determined
to bankrupt their industry by paying billions of pounds
which they could not afford and would have to borrow for
the next generation of mobile phone licences.

What a difference a month makes. Today, if newspaper
headlines are to be believed, investors have rediscovered
their appetite for dotcom shares. The Nationwide and the
Halifax separately report that house prices are coming
gently off the boil which makes it less likely that interest
rates will go up when the Bank of England's Monetary
Policy Committee delivers its verdict tomorrow. The
mobile auctions of Britain and Germany are over and
those still to come are small in comparison. A little
weakening of the pound has helped manufacturing perk up
and the services sector is still expanding rapidly.

All that has encouraged the stock market to soar to a
year's peak, most of the gain coming in the past few days.
There has been a discernible change of mood.

The daft thing is that a quick peer below the surface
suggests very little has changed. Economic growth in this
country is cruising along now at the same rate it was in
early summer, Eurozone growth continues to pick up,
though the euro still suffers against the dollar because
American growth continues to astonish. It tempts one to
think that the profound economic shift which has
galvanised the markets is little more than the fact that a
month ago people thought the glass was half empty; today
they see it as half full.

It is a bit more subtle than that, though. It is a basic
economic law that if interest rates are rising, stock markets tend to fall, because places other than the market become more attractive homes for money.

Rates have been going up now for more than a year, but
following the latest round which saw increases in America,
Japan, Euroland and Britain, markets now believe that we
are nearing the end of the cycle of rising rates. That has
taken a lid off the stock markets. They have therefore
begun to bubble, albeit a bit of caution surfaced in London
yesterday, in front of the MPC meeting.

What is harder to explain is why the market gets excited
about the interest rate good news while resolutely ignoring
the blackest of black clouds on the horizon. The oil price
hit a 10-year high in London on Tuesday when the
September price hit $36 and the more representative
October price topped $33. Eighteen months ago it was
close to eight. The big question no one wants to face up to
is whether the new economy can stand an old-fashioned
oil shock.

By any measure, a quadrupling of oil prices in 18 months
constitutes a shock. True, the price of oil in real terms is
well below what it rose to in the 1970s, when it plunged
the world into recession and sparked off the inflationary
spiral which took 20 years to run its course. But it is the
relative movement, as well as the total which matters.

We are less profligate with oil than we were 25 years ago,
making a given amount go perhaps 25 per cent further, but
it is still a key input - not only in determining the prices of the basic materials of everyday life from plastics to pesticides, but because it is the core cost in transport.

So if oil goes up, so do all the other energy costs.
Everything in the world needs energy - which means
business and consumers have less money to spend on
other things and the world economy turns down.

The effects are possible to ignore, however, because it
takes them about 18 months to work through the system,
which means perversely that the buoyant economic
conditions we see all around us could well be the result of
the rock-bottom oil price 18 months ago when prices
were below $10. That, in real terms, was one-fifth of the
price in the early 1980s, and indeed half the price it was
way back in the 1950s, so when you want a reason for the
current boom you really need to look no further.

Forget Bill Gates and all the computer hype, the real
reason we are all doing so well is that the world is, or
rather was, awash with cheap energy. As a result profits
soared, business ex panded and everyone want ed to
become an entrepreneur. Far from being a boom caused
by dotcoms and everything that goes with them, the boom
is based on nothing more complicated than a very cheap
energy for most of the 1990s. It was a nice oil price
shock. Now we are about to get the nasty one.

This is certainly the line pushed by some of Britain's best
economists, Professor Andrew Oswald of Warwick University for one, and one does not have to buy into the whole thesis to be given cause for concern. Even if computers and telecommunications have revolutionised the world in a way which is a cut above other inventions and discoveries, like electricity and automobiles, the modern economy runs on movement, and that requires oil, and nowhere is that more true than in the United States, whose boom has been the locomotive for the rest of the world.

The counter argument runs on the line that this time it will
be different. And perhaps it will. In a world where computers do indeed allow huge reductions in cost, it may
be that the world's companies are more resilient. This
shock may be more muted and adjustment might be easier
because it has arrived over 18 months rather than vernight, as happened in 1973 and 1980. We are certainly better placed to afford it.

We are much richer, and it needs to rise to $90 to be the
same now in real terms as in 1973. And yet the threat is
there, and it does not actually take much these days to
knock an economy on the head. If a few bankers and
financiers take fright, the transmission mechanism of the
world's stock markets give a clear signal to everyone else
to panic.

The best hope, though, is that good sense will prevail at
Opec and they will turn the taps on and increase the
supply before the price rise bites too deep. But that is a
difficult call for a divided cartel to make, particularly as
they do not want to overdo it and send oil all the way
back down to $10 again. There is certainly no shortage of
pressure and advice. Even Sheik Yamani, the voice of
Opec in the 1970s, has warned his erstwhile colleagues
not to overdo it, because they will eventually force the
world to adopt other technologies.

The Stone Age did not end, he said, because the cavemen
ran out of stone. To extend the metaphor, there is no risk
that the oil age is about to end, nor that we will run out of oil. But there must, at the very least, be a threat which the world's stock markets and political leaders would do well to recognise, that the world economy could run out of steam.



wolavka (09/07/00; 07:31:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 36185)
prior post
not for investment advice.

wolavka (09/07/00; 07:30:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 36184)
old timers/ newbies
position squaring. trend reversal 8-11, reaction/buyin's 8 21-24

9-6-7

watch close today.

wolavka (09/07/00; 07:09:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 36183)
worked off stops
dec now 277.60, we shall see.

goldhunter (09/07/00; 07:09:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 36182)
Reality check...Get You Some!
In yesterday's posts we have a well known poster offering his opinion almost as fact as to why gold is down so far in the price cycle...It's because of the "paper" gold market he writes...futures are the root of all evil...don't you know?
BUNK, HOGWASH, CRAP...

We will see futures and physical turn higher sometime together, and when the tide turns, futures and coins will reward all who hold them (longs)...

Futures and physical oil, platinum, and palladium have already moved nicely higher (together) and gold's time is coming.

We all choose what, where and how we invest our funds...It will be very interesting to read what Mr. Aristotle has to offer as an excuse when gold...both kinds, are trading 600...

Reality...get you some.

ET (09/07/00; 06:33:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 36181)
What's in a name?
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/09/05/timfgnusa01002.html

"One New York stockbroker, seeking to recover
from losses in the market, loaned him $50,000
after a night carousing with Dom Perignon
champagne at the NV Tsunami."

Har!

ET (09/07/00; 06:25:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 36180)
Stranger
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT34IT40PCC&live=true&useoverridetemplate=IXLZHNNP94C

Hey Stranger - I thought you might enjoy this article from the Financial Times. It's Jim Grant's take on why the Euro is in the tank and the bond market ignores oil price increases. From the article:

"To a lay investor, the debate over the validity of hedonic adjustments may seem as irrelevant as
it is obscure. However, the consequences of the real-life application of these adjustments are
significant and far reaching. Citing the alleged outsized gains in productivity growth, the US
Federal Reserve has pursued a less restrictive monetary policy than it might otherwise have
done. Crediting published US productivity data, currency traders have bought the dollar and
sold the euro. Believing in a uniquely productive "new economy", bondholders have entered no
meaningful protest against $30-per-barrel oil prices."

"Mr Greenspan is therefore only partially forthcoming when he urges backward Europe to take a
page from the best-selling US book on the new economy. He should specify the relevant
chapter - Wealth through Accounting."

wolavka (09/07/00; 05:29:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 36179)
stops
hitting down to 276- 275.80

274.80 target buy orders

wolavka (09/07/00; 05:00:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 36178)
Dec gold
Something about the # 277.40,

Baseline. 20 + year game is over.

Hold no allegiance to any place, only GOLD.

wolavka (09/07/00; 04:16:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 36177)
Overnite
Holding gold down for fridays options expiration, today in new york, bounce, but should get good movement into Monday.

floor is in, mining stocks showing volumne. Middle east and east will crush U.S.

Simply Me (09/07/00; 03:57:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 36176)
@714 and nickel62...Also Oil/Inflation/Europe article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_911000/911462.stm
714 - usagold.com msg#: 36141)
...the US$ topped out at over 160 in early '85. And now we have a nice saucer pattern to boot.
Look out above!

My reply: I see it now. Thanks for the correction. I blame an old-fashioned 14" monitor that cuts off the edges of some pages now that everything is written for 15" or bigger. It
couldn't have had anything to do with my ineptitude with numbers....naaaah.


nickel62: Thanks for the quick revue of economics over the last few decades. I lived through the 70's & 80's, of course...but remember only the personal struggle to pay the bills, woefully ignorant of the market forces that were affecting my life. What a difference the internet makes, eh? I wonder if our children's children will ever live in such isolation again. I hope not. I actually believed the Whip Inflation Now propaganda in the 70's and, in the 80's, thought that trickle-down economics would really trickle
down to me.

Thanks to all on this forum, where knowledge is limited only by an individual's capacity to learn....which should keep me quietly in the back of the classroom for a long time!


PS...the link above is to BBC article from 9/5. It talks about the pain Europe is feeling from high oil prices and inflation. I found it while looking for hints of Crown Prince Abdullah's discussions with our notorious head of state.
<snip>
High petrol prices have pushed up inflation
across Europe, and triggered widespread protests by French truckers, who are
blockading 60 oil refineries and depots across
the country.

A week ago French fisherman had blocked
ports to protest the cost of diesel fuel and
forced the government to promise them
financial help.

However, despite its call to bring down prices,
the EU commission says it will examine the
French fuel subsidy to see whether it is
breaching European competition rules.

Opec treads carefully

Opec officials, meanwhile, seem to stand fast
on current production levels.
Oil producing countries reportedly fear that
any further increase in production levels could
backfire on the cartel and drive down prices
well below the target level of $25 a barrel.
<unsnip>

My thought: Who will flinch first?
simply me


Topaz (09/07/00; 03:41:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 36175)
Supporting the "habit"
Thing's are sure hotting up in the (they-v-them)-v-us equation. Yesterday saw the Euro plumbing new depth's v-us$ and still no defense, while the Aussie bleeder was "rewarded" with a static day courtesy of Central Bank intervention in the currency market.
The Euro is certainly proving to be "not as before" and as MK noted, they are NOT going to be intimidated by the activities of Hedge Fund/Speculator galoot's.
Hang in there EURO- Drug dependence is not a long-term solution as Malasia's Mahartir (sp) has shown convincingly.
The IMF "dealers" and crony Hedge fund "pushers" day's are numbered.

Topaz (09/07/00; 02:58:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 36174)
Schippi
My prediction for Sunspot activity (4 mth forecast)
Activity will remain intense for several more days culminating in an epochal energy release mid-late Sept.
A strange and wonderful calm will then manifest itself throughout Oct-Dec and activity will all but cease.
Sunspot Activity NIL-ZILCH. (POG will, of course, react contrarily)
Good efforts on the charts Schippi.

Hard assets...Easy access (09/07/00; 01:53:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 36173)
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