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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 12/6/2005
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Gandalf the White (12/6/05; 23:57:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 138871)
oops
That should have been DAWGS !
<;-)
Sorry, SPOT and SPIKE !

Gandalf the White (12/6/05; 23:55:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 138870)
Tks Sir Smeagol ! <;-)
That DATE in '93 seems to my poor old memory to be about the same time as the birth of the PPT !
NAW -- couldn't be !
<;-)
PS: "Sic 'um" more DAWS !
GO YELLOW


PRITCHO (12/6/05; 23:03:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 138869)
@ Galearis - -- Re Uptick (138865)
You nailed that summary very well - -and with a lot less hostility than I could have mustered:)

I too remember him vividly from years ago at Kitco & the way he delighted in daily torture of the true believers. May all his chooks come home to roost - and may he live in interesting times!

(Think he's gonna get the last one)

Smeagol (12/6/05; 22:42:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 138868)
They aren't Dollar-chartses....
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/speck120605.html
...but wethinks Ssirs Gandalf the White and Topaz will esspecially appreciate these, and the article. We were wondering whether it was possible to put together a Gold Intraday Seasonal chart, and here our wissh has been granted. Cats (or is that COTs) is out of the bag now! Yesssss!

Price Anomalies In The Gold Market
by Dimitri Speck

ssnip:
"Clearly visible here is that the gold price tends much more negatively during New York trading hours as during the remaining hours of the day. The beginning of these price anomalies (irregularities) can be pinpointed to the day. They started on August 5, 1993. This is of significance because it allows the accompanying circumstances leading to the irregularities to be more clearly defined. September 1999 is also notable as gold jumped following the Washington Agreement (WAG). More recently the line is above the zero level. Since then prices tend to rise toward the New York close. However in the current year (2005) the anomaly of a sharp drop toward the afternoon fixing continues. The basic premise of a typical sharp drop during the Comex session hasn't changed. Only the test procedure, chosen because of data availability is too inexact."

S.



Smeagol (12/6/05; 20:51:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 138867)
We sees the six-dollar rule...
...is losing its teeth of late.

S.

MK (12/6/05; 20:50:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 138866)
C-Man and Mr. Linkley
Thank you for the kind words. We appreciate your business and referrals without which this venue would not be possible. More than that we appreciate your long term friendship. The years have gone by so swiftly, my friends, and we have come a long way. It seems like only yesterday that Randy and I were concerned that we would attract enough posters to make this interesting. Now thousands depend on it daily as a source of information, inspiration, connectivity. The other day Rupert Murdoch said that the internet could render newspapers obsolete. Having had the experience of this website, I understand what he is talking about. In the end, without our clientele none of this would have been possible since we do not sell advertising or charge for admission. So it is people like you to whom every visitor at this site owes a debt of gratitude. Not only do you contribute to the general well-being by posting here; you also keep the lights on, the windows cleaned, and this extraordinary table well-polished. Such is an act of faith for all of us, and that's been at the heart of this website from the start.

Enough. . . Look now, my fellow goldmeisters. Gold has just gone through the $510 barrier!

Galearis (12/6/05; 20:18:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 138865)
@ Rich re: retreating pundits.
Hi Rich,

Uptick is a hard find to read these days, yes? I will disagree a wee bit with you about the accuracy of his market calls. I still remember his "discussions" on the Kitco forum with Ted Butler and others were often markedly acrimonious. He was eventually banished from that forum for his behaviors. He has also been dropped from the list of pundits that most popular precious metal web sites publish regularly. No doubt he has gone mainstream! I am treading very carefully here,... I wish him all the success. He will be doing us a better service there by promoting the conventional view.

Upticks claim to fame was an unshakable belief that the precious metals futures markets were not a manipulation. To this individual, paper silver contract sales on COMEX (every two months or so) that regularly totalled the world's annual silver production and suppressed and capped the POS were never naked short sales,,, that all these contracts represented real supply of metal - that could be covered should the need arise. All of this is on the public record. He maintained that the silver market was not rigged, of course. And, of course, as long as the market remained rigged, his views were sustained by fairly reliable predictions.

But things have changed.

I have my doubts whether the commercials will be going very short in the future, and going naked short would be very risky, indeed, from now on. IMO we are in the transition phase to the purely physical market and we should see things really start to fly in the early New Year. The interesting COMEX delivery events going on in both gold and silver – prompted by obvious market participation – with the onset/PUSH of the expiration of Bush's "Homeland Financial Act" should usher in a much more interesting 2006 with both gold and silver. Both gold and silver markets are now trading differently. The focus has shifted IMO away from paper and to the metal. But the old guard is fighting back. But still losing steadily and consistently,,,,because they are trapped.

I stated in September that December should be quite exciting: it has fulfilled its promise.

Best regards, and as always: FWIW.

Galearis


Goldilox (12/6/05; 20:13:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 138864)
Congressional hearings on levee breeches
CSPAN is televising the Congressional hearings with witnesses to the levee breeches. The stories of explosions in the levees, military "round-ups", resident weapons confiscations, and eviction from housing that remains inhabitable are pretty graphic.

The past president of the NO NAACP suggested that the NO police went AWOL with all their emergency equipment to get out of the way of the troops, and that returning residents trying to collect clothing were evacuated at gun point.

This mess is getting uglier.

YGM (12/6/05; 19:49:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 138863)
Tomorrow Dec 7th A Day of Infamy
http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/
Remember Pearl Harbour.


YGM (12/6/05; 19:41:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 138862)
CB2
BTW...don't you just love this computer age? Now I can stake Gold claims from my confuser with out even going out in the bush to pound stakes. What next!

YGM (12/6/05; 19:38:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 138861)
Cobra
You oughta know me by now after all these years. I'm just another old timer who doesn't trust them no account crooks and criminal Banksters with my Gold :-) Bad enough a guy needs a bank account at all much less a damn credit card just to get a sleep in a good hotel or rent a car when you travel. Anyways they always owe me, I never owe them nothing anymore. Mother nature held that precious for a few million yrs, so she can hold onto some of mine for a few more years. Don't forget we're going fishing some day here or there, whatever. Regards;

OvS (12/6/05; 18:30:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 138860)
cb2
Dripping envy
on sour grapes

Sorry that you feel
outclassed

There is a vast ocean
between us

But a continent that
produces a "Belgian"

Can't be all bad..OvS

CoBra(too) (12/6/05; 17:25:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 138859)
XAU and HUI ... @Rich P.
Are starting the race to catch up and potentially lead the POG again.

Hi, Ho silver on Santa Claus (Nikolaus) Day - Best cb2

PS: @ YGM - Love your Creek Gold Bank!

David Linkley (12/6/05; 16:55:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 138858)
Be careful out there
Just a note that with all of the global liquidity out there combined with the black box traders, the volatility in gold and gold shares is likely to increase dramatically.
Both highs and lows will overshoot and catch investors off guard. Even buy and hold investors will be tested. The moneyed classes and their investment houses want your gold and your shares.

MK, thanks for your personal touch when handling the clients I send you. They are very happy with how you conduct your business, professional as always.

Smeagol (12/6/05; 16:40:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 138857)
Our last...
..was meant for Sir Flatliner, just in case - not you Sir R Powell! ~8-)

Smeagol (12/6/05; 16:37:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 138856)
Well...
...capitalism is heartless, but I understand your intent.

S.

R Powell (12/6/05; 16:36:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 138855)
Hedging thoughts
Thanks, Goldilox, for the heads-up on European Minerals Corp.'s newly initiated hedge program (138818). Wouldn't it be nice if this hedging were not necessary for the miners to obtain loans but, I guess, the bank asks, "What have you got for collateral to secure the loan?" After the corp. explains about gold in the ground the bank then asks, "How do we know you'll be able to sell that gold for enough capital to repay us?" Hence, unfortunately, the hedging becomes necessary.

The article stated that the physical would be sold to repay beginning in Jan. 2007. I became curious and looked at the present POG for delivery in both Dec. 2006 and Dec. 2007, covering the first year of repayment. Today's Dec. 2006 price is $536.0 and Dec. 2007 price is $562.1. How about the POG for Dec. 2009, rich? I didn't know you were interested...it's listed at $612.9, but I don't know if you'll get anyone to sell it to you! Interesting too, that the corp was able to put on this hedge without any margin. Now, I wonder if they could hedge the hedge by buying an equal amount of gold in the futures paper game to cover the loss between the price they've locked into at delivery time and the possibly much higher POG that we'll see when that delivery time arrives.

Also, I wonder if this hedge really calls for physical delivery or if it's all paper, in which case the corp might be able to buy back (offset the sale) if..IF...the POG were to decline. Interesting too, that the article said the 443,000 ounce hedge has been completed. I would guess it was done over the recent past few months. Apparently the gold market is strong enough to have absorbed this sale and still reached new highs. Is the bull stronger than we think or is 443,000 ounces just a drop in the bucket + not enough to alter the buy/sale balance? I don't know anyone with enough fiat to buy that much and, even if the wizard has learned how to change stray into FDRs, he'd buy physical now. Hopefully the company will prosper enough to repay the loan + also offset the hedge.

I recently again tried to obtain a bank loan to buy physical which I offered to allow the bank to store in a joint safe deposit box until the loan was repaid. We never got down to what percent of the purchase price they'd lend or interest terms on the balance. They simply refused to hold gold as security for a loan. And yes, I was going to include the option of being able to sell the physical (or a portion thereof!) to repay the loan. The loan officer took the idea all the way to the top....but, no deal. Stupid bank! Now, maybe if I offer to hedge by selling in say, Dec. 2009 for $612.9 what I want to buy today with the bank's money (loan).... Easy to buy a house or a car or even a yacht, but not gold!
rich




USAGOLD Daily Market Report (12/6/05; 16:33:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 138854)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

TUESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold up, buying emerges on intraday dips

December 6 (from DowJones) -- Sentiment remains bullish for gold, analysts say. As a result, an early profit-taking decline became a buying opportunity and the Comex futures finished with a gain Tuesday for the fourth session in a row. In doing so, the metal avoided what technicians consider to be a bearish chart-reversal formation.

February gold settled with a gain of $1.20 to $513.80.

"We tried to reverse to the downside and didn't get all that far," said Tim Evans, analyst with IFR Pegasus. "So we bobbed back up. The market remains buoyant in terms of its sentiment," he added.

"That same demand that we've been seeing for weeks now continues to underpin prices," said Dave Meger, senior metals analyst with Alaron Trading.

"So as of right now, pullbacks are still considered to be a buying opportunity."

Evans pointed out that that Canada-based Goldman Sachs analysts included buying gold as one of their top trading ideas for 2006.

"In terms of market timing, it would not surprise me to see a cycle of profit taking between now and year end - both because we saw that last year, and also as a normal book-squaring kind of activity ahead of the holidays," said Evans. One trader commented that profit taking was the main reason that gold and silver were softer out of the gate first thing this morning.

With gold hitting contract and 24-year highs, pegging specific chart levels becomes difficult.

"The upside isn't particularly well capped, which is kind of a mixed condition," said Evans.

"On one hand, we don't have a prior high to key off of. On the other hand, we also don't have a particular level where we would see a concentration of buy stops. We're really in an area where the overhead resistance is somewhat vague.

"We saw some selling today at a high of $514.80. Does that mean somebody is looking at $515 as a psychological level? Perhaps. If you're looking at a scaled trading idea, we might see some resistance at $5 intervals on the way up."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire, market quotes)---

Cavan Man (12/6/05; 16:19:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 138853)
Satisfied Customer
MK: Hats off to you and your fine team in Denver! Our modest transaction went off without a hitch; security, professionalism and competitive (best part for this thrifty Cavan Man). I highly recommend Centennial Precious Metals.

Flatliner (12/6/05; 16:17:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 138852)
@How's this sound
I think my capitalistic mind hears your intent. But my heart is dearly sad.

There is not a physical thing that can replace the honorable word from someone that you trust or the comforting arms from people with a common bond that share their life with you.


Smeagol (12/6/05; 16:00:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 138851)
How's this sound, Sir Flatliner?

You will hold closest that resource which has the greatest wealth-liquidity-half-life in a given circumstance.

S.



TownCrier (12/6/05; 15:57:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 138850)
Pan, they put the anti-growth gold figure at 0.4%...
Hmmmmmm..... If they had to calculate a similar anti-growth figure based on the impact of losses of national savings, purchasing power, and confidence due to inflation and depreciation of the local currency, I wonder what THAT figure would be.

Shabby economic assessment is often the result of an agenda, a blind eye, or both.

Thanks for the post.

R.

Pan (12/6/05; 15:42:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 138849)
India's costly love affair with gold
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1207/p07s02-wosc.html
"Money spent on the precious metal could be cutting the country's economic growth by 0.4 percentage points per year."

"It's fair to say India's economic growth would be higher if the money tied up in gold was invested more productively," says Diana Farrell, director of the McKinsey Global Institute in San Francisco."

"It'll take a long time to break the gold habit," says Shiv Taneja, a former Bombay journalist who is now the Asia Pacific director of Cerulli Associates, a US financial services consultancy. "It's not going to happen in the next five or 10 years; rather, it may take one or two generations. But I'm confident it will happen eventually."

**********************************************************
This shabby economic growth argument is new to me.

I'm sure the gold cartel will try to do the trick!

I'm wonder if there is time left before they are running dry?



TownCrier (12/6/05; 15:27:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 138848)
Short but sweet...
http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/comment/richardsuttmeier/10256016.html
Richard Suttmeier, RealMoney.com Contributor
(TheStreet)12/6/2005 --

"...the higher gold price is not just a sign of inflationary pressures. Gold is becoming an asset class of choice for petrodollars, and central banks are increasing their gold reserves on global currency concerns. To me, high gold prices warn that financial assets are vulnerable in 2006. The dollar bottomed at the end of 2004 and could top out by the end of 2005 as global investors get nervous about the growing U.S. budget and trade deficits."

^---(from url)---^

Choose gold. Giants have cleared a path, now walk confidently in their footsteps.

R.

TownCrier (12/6/05; 15:17:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 138847)
Brazil central bank may cancel all old swaps Weds.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh83371_2005-12-06_21-09-17_n06391570_newsml
SAO PAULO, Brazil, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Brazil's central bank said on Tuesday it will sell currency swaps linked to short-term interest rates on Wednesday for the ninth time since November, and the sale may allow it to entirely retire an old batch of dollar-linked swaps.

They also cancel out the effect of dollar-linked swaps that were sold several years ago to prevent the real from weakening.

If all of the old swaps were retired, the bank could choose to continue selling the new swaps to cancel out the impact of some 35 billion reais in outstanding dollar-linked bonds.

So far, the central bank has not indicated to the market if the sales will continue or stop. But traders have said the bank has taken a more active role in the foreign exchange market since October to pull the real back from its highest levels in 4-1/2 years and keep exports competitive.

^----(from url)---^

Foreign currencies relative to each other rise and fall according to economics and to local policy.

A key issue to bear in mind is the erosional effect on the value of foreign currency reserves within the CB balance sheet when policy and economic factors conspire to strengthen the domestic currency relative to the foreign holdings, which themselves are being pushed around by their own economies and government policies in the same game. It's enough to drive a sensible, stability-minded central banker to distraction.

Hence the evolving deemphasis on a key-currency reserve concept and a reemphasis on a mark-to-market floating gold reserve concept. Each domestic currency can continue to respond in value and volume to economic/policy forces, while at the same time the primary use of gold reserves will ensure that the asset side of the balance sheet doesn't fundamentally come undone.

And in precisely the same way, a person with a primary reliance on solid gold savings will rest easy knowing that their purchasing power is safely residing beyond the steady general march of currency depreciation.

R.

Flatliner (12/6/05; 14:09:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 138846)
I sense some concession here and I'm starting to see your point of view.
I will concede that forming a community bank (of gold) will not accomplish what I am looking for - at this point.

At the same time, if you act like a bank, you are a bank and that doesn't mean you're bad.

I will stand by my original claim, but lighten it a little, (If you go back to some of my earliest posts,) I said something like "you will never sell your gold again!" Back then, I was ridiculed for this statement. I will change it to: "If you learn how to use your gold as a reserve, you will most likely never sell your gold again. :)" He who understands this will be the banker of the future.

I will be in this future banking group. I will welcome others. If you would like, I will share my experiences in this forum for all to learn.


Rimh (12/6/05; 13:48:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 138845)
cool concept, Smeagol!
Allow only humans to own gold - what a revelation that would be! No corporations or governments allowed!

Smeagol (12/6/05; 13:38:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 138844)
Sir Flatliner, you are going in circles.
(Smeagol mode off)

"What if Goldbugs chose to create a bank? One that held 100% reserves in gold, followed the rules that the Goldbugs collectively create? You know, "causes of their choosing".

Time. Think about it through Time.

Let's say you actually start this 100% golden bank. How do you guarantee 100% that the shareholders will always choose rules and causes that are beneficial? What if they start out with good intentions and later evolve to something less noble? Think about that, because that IS what happens in
the real world.

"The day that Goldbugs organize to create such a ‘bank’ will be the day Freegold arrives in the world."

My apologies, but as sir TC wrote, you ARE dead wrong here.

"In other words, Goldbugs are the ones that must make Freegold happen. Do not rely on Central Banks to do this because… well… they wont."

Then you cannot rely on ANY bank - goldbugs or not, sooner or later - they won't be! What test will a potential shareholder have to pass to prove their "good goldbug" intentions, over their lifetime - or the lifetime of the
organization? What about hostile takeovers? Again, think about it through Time.

I came up with a potential solution which I posted a while back. Simply restated, to prevent mass fiat gold abuse, remove gold entirely from law and allow only humans to
own it. Sir Belgian said this was too "pure". Well, why not at least strive toward that, even if it cannot be absolutely achieved in the impefect state we live in? Implementing
this solution is frankly impossible; like I said, it's the human heart (and mind, thank you, Sir Rimh), not the design of the system, that needs upgrading. The potential for the positive use of gold is offset by a negative potential of the same magnitude, as is true for any power. If everyone was content to live within their means, and not burn tomorrow's proceeds today, the problem would not exist in the first place, and we wouldn't be here discussing it.

Putting gold in a position where it can be used to gain an advantage over others always leads to that advantage being
exercised sooner or later. Gold has to be distributed, not concentrated, and like the Silmaril in the tale by Tolkien, placed in sight, yet out of reach of, any earthly power.

sir Flatliner, you don't NEED organizations/corporations to do what you are talking about. These are separate legal entities in themselves, add additional layers of complexity, often hide the intent and agendas of their owners, are organized under systems of law that may themselves be bent, and most importantly are inconstant through Time.

All you NEED is each individual exercising their free right to contract/use their gold as they see fit, to accomplish their own goals. Taken in total, that will bring us closer to the nobler intent that you fervently pursue (to your everlasting credit, btw. More power to you), than the
current system.

Even with that, some will bend their gold-wealth to uses that may not be beneficial to you, or others. Even your use
of your gold may inadvertently harm someone else if that use results in loss of their rights or property.

Gold, having the highest wealth/liquidity potential of any thing, demands commensurate responsibility in its use.
When everyone has a HEART of gold, THEN we
will truly have Freegold.

Paraphrasing, with the intensity, conviction and accent of the character in "The Incredibles" who makes the costumes
for the superheroes, "No (gold deposit) banks!"

Smeagol


Rimh (12/6/05; 13:33:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 138843)
Or to flip the concept...
How about you give me all your gold right now and I'll start the Rimh GoldBug Bank. I'll be the CEO and Chairman and you can be the first shareholder. If we disagree on the gold's usage, as chairman, I will have the deciding vote. If you choose to withdraw your holdings, there will a mandatory three day hold period to verify the paperwork, after which there will be a 15% surcharge for early withdrawal......

Rimh (12/6/05; 13:26:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 138842)
and another thought....
Any circumstance where you or someone else is making decisions about how my gold might or should be used I find objectionable - and that would be the case with the proposed 'goldbug bank'.

Rimh (12/6/05; 13:20:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 138841)
Flatliner
You or I may act like a bank, but that does not make us a bank. Your earlier posts were fairly specific in suggesting that goldbugs organize to create some kind of institution. It is the institution that I decry. What you do with your personal holdings is none of my business.



Flatliner (12/6/05; 12:53:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 138840)
Are banks bad?
Actually, I believe that you are already ‘the bank.’ He who holds gold will be the banker of the future. I also believe that you have three choices. 1) Sell your gold for the going price, 2) Continue to store your wealth or 3) Act like a bank and write receipts against it.

Are there other options?

As much as you hate the concept of a bank, as the price of gold goes up, you will find yourself closer and closer to having enough wealth that you will act like a bank.

So, if you act like a bank, do you become the bad guy?


Rimh (12/6/05; 12:40:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 138839)
Flatliner..
Your proof lies in the historical track record of countless failed banking systems throughout the world, each setup with purported 'good' plans but ultimately ending in ruins vs gold-in-hand which has stood the test of time as value without equal....



Rimh (12/6/05; 12:33:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 138838)
Uh, nooo Flatliner -
Not at all close to my message. To be blunt:

bank (ANY bank)= institution = trouble (not-free-gold)

individual ownership = free gold

Why do you insist that there "must" be a bank involved to improve the system? While banks will probably always exist in one form or another, my contention is that they will never be in any way an altruistic organization for the greater good of mankind. Individual ownership of gold, your own piggy "bank" if you will, is the best way for you to effect mankind for the greater good, in my opinion.

There soon may be no reward (pain, more likely) in the fiat system to reap and then ALL eyes will most certainly be on gold, like it or not...


Flatliner (12/6/05; 12:26:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 138837)
@Flatliner, msg #138833
Humbly at you mercy seeking proof.

TownCrier (12/6/05; 12:05:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 138836)
Flatliner, msg #138833
So as not to overly belabor the point, I will simply say, you are dead wrong on this.

R.

TownCrier (12/6/05; 12:01:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 138835)
Tuesday Evening Television "gold standard" Alert...
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2005-12-05-charlie-brown-christmas_x.htm
(USA TODAY) The Christmas Classic That Almost Wasn't -- When CBS bigwigs saw a rough cut of A Charlie Brown Christmas in November 1965, they hated it.

And when the program airs today at 8 p.m. ET on ABC, it will mark its 40th anniversary — a run that has made it a staple of family holiday traditions and an icon of American pop culture.

Scholars of pop culture say that shining through the program's skeletal plot is the quirky and sophisticated genius that fueled the phenomenal popularity of Schulz's work...

"This is the only time in the year when TV programs from the LBJ years play on network television and do very, very well," he says. "For millions of baby boomers, these things became as much a holiday tradition as hanging a stocking or putting up a tree."

What makes A Charlie Brown Christmas the "gold standard" in Thompson's view is that it somehow manages to convey an old-fashioned, overtly religious holiday theme that's coupled with Schulz's trademark sardonic, even hip, sense of humor.

While Schulz centers the piece on verses from the Bible, laced throughout are biting references to the modern materialism of the Christmas season. Lucy complains to Charlie that she never gets wants she really wants. "What is it you want?" Charlie asks. "Real estate," she answers.

"A key element in all of Schulz's work is his sense of man's place in the scheme of things in a theological sense as well as a psychological sense," says Thomas Inge, an English and humanities professor...

Parents say the combination of humor and bedrock values is what draws them and their children to the show.

^---(see url for full article)---^

In place of "real estate", back in 1965 Lucy certainly couldn't say "gold" because it had been made illegal for U.S. citizens to own gold bullion from 1933 up until 1975.

So, tune in your television tonight to celebrate the season with a Christmas classic, and always tune into USAGOLD to celebrate the restoration of your personal freedom and sovereignty with gold ownership which has been long overdue.

R.

Survivor (12/6/05; 11:53:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 138834)
A (Sort of) Rhetorical Question . . .

If central banks were truly necessary and credible in their role as the purveyers of fiat currency, why would they bother (or feel the need to) hold gold at all?

A hypocracy being heaped on us, methinks!

Glad I hold my share. Got yours?

- Survivor



Flatliner (12/6/05; 11:53:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 138833)
@Rimh
I feel a pulse.

Do you really mean to encourage me? I am in complete agreement on must every word you've posted here.

I would like to purpose a slight change to your wording and offer one more change below.

"I have no doubt you will see many goldbugs selflessly mobilizing their gold to causes for the greater good - but causes of their choosing, not the choosing of a government or [Fiat Fractional Reserve] bank."

Have I gone to far here?

What if Goldbugs chose to create a bank? One that held 100% reserves in gold, followed the rules that the Goldbugs collectively create? You know, "causes of their choosing".

The second change is a matter of timing. The day that Goldbugs organize to create such a ‘bank’ will be the day Freegold arrives in the world. Until then, we will all suffer.

That is why I continue to bring this issue up. Think about it. My contention is that the current fiat system will not embrace the Freegold principle while they reap the rewards of fiat money. This must change. The only way for it to change is for the free gold that is already available to everyone to start acting as Freegold.

Does this make sense? In other words, Goldbugs are the ones that must make Freegold happen. Do not rely on Central Banks to do this because… well… they wont.


mikal (12/6/05; 11:45:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 138832)
@TC
'So far', SOO good.

TownCrier (12/6/05; 11:32:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 138831)
India has passive gold investment policy - RBI
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2005-12-06T184513Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-226639-1.xml&archived=False
Dec 6, 2005; MUMBAI (Reuters) - India's central bank governor, Yaga Venugopal Reddy, said on Tuesday that the federal government and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) have been following a "passive policy" on the country's gold holdings.

India's foreign exchange reserves are $142.18 billion, out of which gold comprises only 3.4 percent. The bulk of the reserves is held in foreign currency assets which are currently at $136 billion and which are mostly invested in U.S Treasuries.

"**So far** the government and the RBI (have) been following a passive gold policy," he told reporters, when asked if the central bank planned to increase the share of gold holdings in its official foreign exchange reserves.

...central banks of Russia, Argentina and South Africa, all of whom have decided to increase the amount of gold in their reserves. Analysts say diversification by central banks into gold has **so far** been slow as they tried to keep their gold buying under wraps.

But the growing risk of high inflation and low growth could make gold attractive for central banks, given the uncertainities of high commodity prices, increasing geo-political risks and concerns about rising international trade barriers.

^---(from url)---^

In this article I like the two-time usage of the phrase "so far" (meaning, "at least up until now... but no promises for tomorrow").

This is an example of "creating" news. If you think about it, after many decades of days going by where the central bank governor has not had this question put before him, you can probably begin to see the subtle sign that the media-following population is starting to be groomed for new official policy orientation with new emphasis upon gold.

Further... in addition to list given in the article that makes gold ownership attractive to both people and to central banking institutions, with just a tiny amount of thought it will also occur to you that gold reserves provide the most natural means for central banks who are mindful to reduce their exposure to exchange-rate risk, particularly of the form manifested in their current holdings of billion$ in the form of U.S. Treasuries.

Do not hesitate to take necessary action to round out your portfolio diversification strategy with a solid foundation of gold ownership.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial today and be golden. Toll Free, 1-800-869-5115

R.

Rimh (12/6/05; 11:32:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 138830)
Flatliner....
I believe you (or Smeagol) stumbled on the source of contention - the human heart and mind. While I applaud your efforts to "be in the game" and try and come up with solutions, the problem, as I see it is your hope for a pure and altruistic "bank" supported by the goldbugs. Unfortunately, I and many other goldbugs feel the realities of this world preclude such a possibility... to the effect that we would prefer to hold our gold in hand and use it for whatever purposes we deem appropriate. When the times get tough, I have no doubt you will see many goldbugs selflessly mobilizing their gold to causes for the greater good - but causes of their choosing, not the choosing of a government or bank. And that, to me represents the freedom we have when we hold our gold in hand, not as shares in some bank or co-operative. Bottom line - its about control. As the old twist on the golden rule goes "He who has the gold makes the rules". And if the gold is distributed amongst the masses instead of held in central institutions there will be much better balance in how that gold is used for the greater good of mankind.

Smeagol, thanks for the link to archives on this topic - I rarely go back there, but reading those old posts made me realize the depth of insight in those postings!

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (12/6/05; 10:50:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 138829)
Special Offer Update -- Allotments are 3/4ths sold out; only 10 Chilean coins remain!
http://www.usagold.com/gold/special/south.html


Featuring coins from Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Uruguay!



Flatliner (12/6/05; 10:49:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 138828)
@yesterday's: Banks are unnecessary...
"Individuals and private organizations should hold their gold and trade its receipts, to lend and to borrow it."

Individuals = You.
Private organizations = Gold Reserve Bank (many).

Individual = small fish.
Private organization = school of fish that move in the same direction.

Individual = Fill up gas tank, if there is gas.
Private organization = buy oil tanker, refine it and then fill up gas tank because it made gas.

Individual = Use gold as collateral for food.
Private organization = Use gold as collateral to grow food.

This quote, I interpret to mean, something like: Gold should be used as reserve so that people can loan and borrow the receipts that it empowers.


Flatliner (12/6/05; 10:40:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 138827)
@ don't encourage him - - this serial poster
I do apologize. It was never my intent to rain on anyone's parade.

Turn you backs, if you so choose. I, for one, will not.
Wait for your price increase and sell, I will value mine as reserve.
Live trapped in fear of today's headlines, I choose to see opportunity.
A man that lives by honestly, dies a happy man.

If you are human enough to stand up, I challenge you to come up with solutions. The problems are posted – here and everywhere – on a daily basis. But, I see everywhere that great minds and extraordinary thinkers refuse to act. Instead, they live in fear of the latest headline, convert into bullion, and tremble in the shadows. How can anyone possibly see this as healthy? How does this empower your life? How does this help your children? How can this improve the world in which you live?

It will not sit idle.

Anyone that lives this way will live a cowardly existence. Sure, they will hold gold. Sure, they will be wealthy. But, they will live in fear. Those that torture and connive will remain in power and continue to rape humanity in every possible way. Given the current course of events, it will only get worse.

The future, lays in the hand of the Goldbug that is willing to extend trust, be it just a little, to a cause that can be built on hope. The future will require that Goldbugs actually interact in a trustful way. Together, many Goldbugs will lay the foundation for the economy. Separately, Goldbugs are ineffective and enslaved just like the rest of the population.

Continue to choose teams. Get ready to play ball. But the game that you play will be lost by a landslide… if you do not come out to play.


CoBra(too) (12/6/05; 10:19:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 138826)
@ OvS
"Kant say what you meant,
but Nietzsche it was not.
Now let me go back to my new interest...

Pretty whitty - though in the end I've never seen anything original nor of real interest you've ever contributed to this site; And that is to say in all your flimsy disguises as "Christian, Gott Erhalte.., Dee" and now the recently styled New Englander, being mad at missing the first boat "Mayflower" and therefor being more stuffed than befits an original Bostonian. My only query would be - join the tea as in the Boston Tea Party!

Thank you very much for consideration and fare well

cb2






R Powell (12/6/05; 10:13:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 138825)
David Linkley
Concerning post # 138807, I have to agree 100% again. There are not very many who adhere to this approach, in actual trading or investing but many who do advocate it.
It's nice to see that I'm not entirely alone here. 8>))

R Powell (12/6/05; 09:57:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 138824)
Strong silver..?
Henri, (138817), yes, I had the same thought when last I looked at the numbers. It's most unusual to see silver as the strongest of the metals. Demand or speculative buying or just short term market noise? Who knows? A fellow named Kaplan (uptick) used to write for the "Consensus" newspaper which tracks both technical and fundamental news in commodities. His views of silver have been fairly correct over the years. I'd love to know his thoughts now on all metals.
rich



Goldilox (12/6/05; 09:00:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 138823)
Silver "leap"
@ henri,

Silver leap appears to be just more volitility! got Ping-pong?

Goldilox (12/6/05; 08:56:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 138822)
Pension cuts
CNBC just showed a clip of Dubya responding to Verizon's announcement to cut out executive pensions. "America's corporations must make good on their promises".

Nice how he waits until exec pensions are threatened before uttering even a peep. Not a word when UAL and GM cut pensions for less than executive ranks, but of course, they aren't necessarily political contributors to his "regime".

Now CNBC is promoting more flexible 401k innovations, so the brokers control our retirement options. HMMM. . . after the tech bubble (401k destruction) deflation, I'm not too impressed with this plan.

I think the real issue is retirement medical, as the corporations would love to pass those obligations on to MediCare.

Goldilox (12/6/05; 08:49:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 138821)
Prison Planet
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/december2004/021204martiallaw.htm
@ slingshot,

I won't elaborate here, but more solid research is available at the URL above.

One of favorites is the "Keeping it in the family" video excerpts from his Martial Law 911: Rise of the Police State DVD.

slingshot (12/6/05; 08:39:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 138820)
Globalization
I am reading your links and they are like sign posts giving warnings. Wealth Transfer is Globalization and the processes TPTB uses are so insidious that one can not believe it. For whose benifit they proclaim great progams, treatys and laws. Not Us! The Council of Foreign Realation, Bilderburgers, IMF, Trilateral Commission and so forth and their agendas to bring the whole world into their submission. All this said and all that has been said on this forum would have us believe that they are benign.
What is the linch pin that breaks and reveals them for what they are? Is it the USA? Its division into the rich and poor? Have and have nots? The distruction of its borders? The Second Admendment? Which I believe will go first before they confiscate the gold and property.
Anyway, what the heck do I know. I'm just a stupid American.
Slingshot---------------<>

Goldilox (12/6/05; 08:36:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 138819)
Hedges
http://www.quote.com/qc/news/story.aspx?symbols=BWIRE:100&story=200512060704_BWR__BW6182
URL for article below

Goldilox (12/6/05; 08:34:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 138818)
European Minerals Corporation Hedges 443,000 Ounces Of Gold At US$574.25 Per Ounce
snip:

LONDON, United Kingdom--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 6, 2005--European Minerals Corporation ("EMC" or "the Company") is pleased to announce it has completed the execution of its gold hedging programme which is a condition of drawdown of the US$75.4 million debt facility concluded with Investec Bank (UK) Limited, Investec Bank Limited ("Investec") and Nedbank Limited ("Nedbank") for its 100% owned Varvarinskoye project (see Press Release dated December 1, 2005). The Company expects to commence drawdown of the loan during January 2006.

EMC has implemented a gold hedging facility in the form of a monthly US dollar flat forward gold sale for the 8 year term of the debt facility. EMC has sold 443,000 ounces of gold and has locked in a guaranteed price of US$ 574.25 per ounce for the whole period. The gold hedging facility is un-margined and deliveries of gold into the hedge are scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2007.

The 443,000 ounces hedged represents 50% of the gold production during the term of the debt facility but only 19% of Varvarinskoye's current proven and probable mineral reserves of 2.34 million ounces of gold (this estimate of gold reserves was calculated at a gold price of US$375 per ounce).

-Goldilox

Hedging is not going away, but the threshold seems to be rising dramatically.

Henri (12/6/05; 08:30:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 138817)
Silver spot
Silver appears to have made what appears to be a quantum leap in the last few minutes...just back to from where it departed but significant in face of all other fallings of metals

Goldilox (12/6/05; 07:50:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 138816)
Migrant workers
@ slingshot,

Recent studies have shown that "globalist" plans like NAFTA, et al, have dropped Mexican real wages by 50%. Those who "escape" to the US fare little better, as their sub-standard wages are eaten up by competing costs of living and supporting a family on foreign soil.

Globalism only supports the folks that OWN the production, transportation and distrution. The greater the distance between the source and end-user, the greater the degree of corporate oversight.

Goldilox (12/6/05; 07:42:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 138815)
Crash: Shot Across the Bow?
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
snip:

We read with interest this morning's report from CNN that an Iranian military plane with 90+ people aboard has crashed near Tehran.

Normally, we don't jump right to a conspiracy angle, but we are watching this situation quite closely. As background, we have to remember that the neoCON agenda has been to expand the US presence in the Middle East, ostensibly to secure our energy interests in the area. The Gulf War was a stew of factors in this general direction including big bucks for defense contractors, Iraqi plans to sell oil for euros, and a number of others.

More recently, the former Israeli premier warned of an attack on Iran, which is reportedly only four-five months from possibly having a nuclear weapon. Israel, which sports about 300 nukes of its own, doesn't want the "nuclear club" getting any bigger. Iran, predictably, made the usual protestations about the comments - not mentioning that their side had declared a month or two back that "Israel should be wiped off the map."

With all the tensions swirling about the possibility of Iran getting access to weapons-grade material, the Washington Post reports today that Iran is going ahead with plans to add two more reactors next year. Remember, the Russians are hip deep in funding Iran's development, so any showdown with the West would likely drag Russia into the fray - along with possibly China.

So what we have with today's crash of an Iranian military plane is either one hell of a coincidence, or about equally possible, the start of a new round of escalation in the Middle East.

-Goldiox

For those who believe Tommy Frank's warning that a failure in NeoCon control will bring "Terror, Shock, and Awe" as their weapons of last political resort, here's an interesting potential for them to escalate their foreign adventures at a time when more of the electorate is calling for relaxation. With the CIA "intelligence officers" leaving in droves over the Plame affair, the "plumbers" seriously outnumber career intel officers.

Watching the "Trial of Billy Mitchell", who was court-martialed in the 1920's for insubordinately suggesting that the US was vulnerable to air attack, I'm not surprised that warnings from more visionary military leaders are not taken seriously. Wasn't Flavius Aetius. who defeated Attila's army murdered for becoming "obsolete" with his victory? Or was that just the TV version?

slingshot (12/6/05; 07:41:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 138814)
Substitution for Canada
I wonder what the global impact would be if China bordered the USA. A double influx of migrant workers into the economy. Have not heard anything more on the Chinese Boat People. Mexican workers would have some stiff competition.
Slingshot-----------<>

Goldilox (12/6/05; 07:05:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 138813)
The Debate Over the Yuan
http://workinglife.typepad.com/daily_blog/2005/11/the_debate_over.html
snip:

So, the U.S. Treasury Department decided not to brand China as a currency manipulator; The Financial Times (subscription required) leads with that story across the top of its front page and The New York Times features it on the front page of the business section. I've always thought this debate is misplaced or, at least, doesn't focus on two other solutions, one easy and one not-so-easy.

The argument causing a lot of heated rhetoric is this: China's currency, the yuan (also known as the renminbi, or "the people's money") is artifically undervalued. As a result, Chinese goods stay very cheap, which partly accounts for the huge trade deficit China enjoys with the U.S. Two Senators, Charles Schumer (NY) and Lindsey Graham (SC) have sponsored a bill that would impose a 27.5 percent tariff on China if it fails to allow its currency to rise.

But, while I am no fan of the dictatorship in China, the truth is the U.S. could so something simple: let the high-value of the dollar decline. A high dollar benefits tourists (for obvious reasons--you can buy more when you travel abroad) but does not help average Americans, over the long-term. Some day, we--or, or more accurately, today's children and those yet to be born--will have to pay the piper on a huge trade deficit. A high dollar may do a lot of good things for retailers like Wal-Mart (and the fabulously rich Waltons) but, eventually, someone has to pay for the costs of record trade deficits--China already owns $750 billion in U.S. securities and that will probably reach $1 TRILLION in the next couple of years if the pace of the deficits continues. That kind of debt owed by one country to another has never been seen in human history. So, why not let the dollar decline?

The other issue is this: my own view is that, frankly, the level of the Chinese currency won't make a huge difference because of the huge advantage China has in labor costs. As long as the authoritarian regime in China suppresses its workers' rights, it will continue to be the industrial Mecca of global corporations. You just can't find cheaper--and more controlled--labor anywhere in the world. If you are a U.S. worker worrying about losing jobs overseas, you should be rooting for Chinese workers getting the right to have unions and breaking loose to push wages up; there are, in fact, regular protests and wildcat strikes in China which may portend a massive social upheaval driven by vast legions of rural poor who want a share of the rapidly developing economy.

-Goldilox

So long as the media pits one "controller class" against another, the real "victims" are the "controlled" in both hemispheres.

The author is launching a Democratic challenge to Hillary's NY Senate seat.


Goldilox (12/6/05; 06:36:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 138812)
The REAL War
http://warfolly.vzz.net/therealwar.html
snip:

Unless you really own yourself, you're just a pawn in somebody else's game.

Tennessee Ernie Ford nailed it 50 years ago: "I owe my soul to the company store."

Could it be the most profound line in American history? In world history?


We sold our souls for the trinkets — the best wine, women and song. And while we were out capturing jewels, our most valuable possessions — the kids — ran off with their peers, got mixed in with the masses and got chewed up in our scams. Chickens roosting. We kill our children and deny we do it.

We let our kids go out to play, knowing the land had been poisoned by our inattention to the important things.

Now we raise our kids to be killed for lies, and squirm in the dark chasms beneath our pillows, dreaming the bills have come due. They have.

When people don't earn what they get, and don't get what they earn, a sickness develops, a corruption. Our society is set up so the middlemen get all the money. They don't earn their money, they steal it from others who do. But this is how the society has developed, and the entire human species has turned into a culture of parasites feeding on themselves, destroying the very conditions that sustain their lives with the deluded pretense of gathering "wealth."

That makes it difficult to appeal to their sense of reason, because their reason is to rape and plunder and not get caught.

The guy who said, "Crime doesn't pay," was a crook, because crime most definitely does pay, because it runs the whole world, and the best criminals — sociopaths posing as political leaders — often wind up running governments.

Everybody does only what they can do. Everybody tries to be as honest as they can. When you have to be slightly dishonest, or change the debate in order to cover up something you want to hide, you need to look at the thing you don't want everybody else to know, and understand how it poisons your life.

Are you happy profiting from someone else's misery? A majority of us are.

And that's where we are right now. That's the real war.

-Goldilox

Just where has a debt-based society taken us, anyway?

"I owe, I owe, so off to work I go!"

Indentured servitude was the method used by many of our forefathers to arrive in the Western Henisphere. Though outlawed in its 17th century form, it is alive and well in fractional reserve banking and the fruits thereof!

slingshot (12/6/05; 06:34:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 138811)
Goldilox , Justiceplus
Guess we are in one heck of a pickle.
Slingshot-----------<>

Goldilox (12/6/05; 06:19:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 138810)
Want Debt Relief? Prohibit Fractional Reserve Banking!
http://www.justiceplus.org/reform_principles.htm
snip:

Absent authentic monetary reform, debtor nations unable to pay their debts will ultimately be left with five (5) options:
1.- To increase exports in order to increase foreign exchange revenues.
Where this is possible, it transforms the citizens into de facto workers for foreign banks which siphon the national production out of the country, further impoverishing the people.
Increased commodity production saturates markets and reduces prices, partially or wholly defeating the purpose. In any case this is rarely possible, as exports have usually been maximized already.

2. - This necessitates submitting to the IMF-imposed rape of their national resources and the starvation of their people while surrendering their national sovereignty by degrees.
This is the option recently taken by the S.E. Asian nations (South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines).
This is, of course, a closed loop back to debt. Of the $123 billion IMF S.E. Asian bailout, Chase Manhattan bank is in line to receive $32 billion; J.P. Morgan for $23 billion; Bank of America for $16 billion. This $71 billion will never reach S.E. Asia, as it is transferred from the U.S. Treasury, to the IMF, to the Wall Street banks.

The IMF bailout saves their bad loans to these nations. Courtesy of the U.S. government, some such foreign debt is being transferred ("monetized") to U.S. taxpayers for payment via increased taxes and inflation.

Interestingly, Congressional leaders were told by the Clinton Administration that unless they agreed to fund the IMF bailout of banks which make loans to South Korea, there was danger of invasion of South Korea by North Korea — war blackmail.

3. - Unilaterally to repudiate their foreign debts.
This action incurs the danger of being followed by trade strangulation (necessitating barter agreements in foreign trade, as was successfully conducted by the Axis powers and later by Rhodesia), and military invasion (e.g. witness the fate of these defaulter nations: Haiti, Somalia, Iraq, the former Yugoslavia [Bosnia et al.] invaded by U.S. and U.N. armed forces acting as unwitting, de facto mercenaries):
Tote dat bar! Lif dat bale! Try to buck the system, and you land in jail!

It is no easy task to break free of debt, nor of the international banking system. Lacking preponderant military strength, a well-armed populace (like the Swiss) is a necessary precaution to exercise this option successfully, if indeed it is still possible.

4. - To seek legal repudiation of their foreign debts, based on the doctrine of "odious debts".
This is an established international law principle permitting debt repudiation when a government incurs a debt without the informed consent of its people, and which is not used in the legitimate interest of the State.
Ironically, this doctrine was first used by the U.S. to repudiate Cuba's debts after the U.S. took Cuba from Spain. The jurist who coined the phrase "the doctrine of odious debts", held that debts incurred to subjugate a people or to colonize them should also be considered odious.

This doctrine shifts responsibility to the lenders, neither to corrupt nor to utilize corrupted politicians and governments to initiate loans, and allows collection from the despots who wasted the funds — both desirable changes. Of course, an independent, uncorrupted judiciary is a prerequisite to obtaining legal repudiation with this legal theory, which is extremely unlikely when corrupted politicians appoint politically subservient judges to the World Court who would hear such cases.

A national legal repudiation on this ground would be a good start though, and could be at least legally valid, but might be a practical nullity, resulting in the same consequences as a unilateral repudiation without a recognized legal basis (Option 3 above).

5. To issue sufficient quantities of the national money specifically to retire the international debt.
Since most revenues obtained from foreign loans are shortly spent (often wasted), partly domestically and partly in foreign countries, the results are usually inflationary (in both the country of origin — usually the U.S., and in the recipient country), partially multiplied by private domestic (and foreign) banks through fractional reserve banking loans.
Therefore, while issuing sufficient new money to retire foreign debt would work, it would also result in hyperinflation where the foreign debt is great in relation to the economy, particularly due to the subsequent multiplier effect of any high-powered money in a fractional reserve banking system. This ruinous negative effect has been felt by numerous nations which inflated to retire foreign debt.

Of course, the technical solution to avoiding such hyperinflation lies in the domestic prohibition of fractional reserve banking, coupled with simultaneous, proportionate foreign exchange regulation, which would require the banks to absorb the new money as increased reserves in a transition to full reserve banking.

This response amounts to legislated domestic monetary reform, which is, therefore, not an option "absent authentic monetary reform" (like the first four options above [i.e. 1-4]) but, rather, is authentic monetary reform.

In short, if nations find the first four options, above, unacceptable, then they will be forced to consider authentic monetary reform, which brings us back to the subject of this article in order to describe this type of reform.


-Goldilox

Too good for just one snip!

Goldilox (12/6/05; 06:13:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 138809)
Nationalize resources?
http://www.justiceplus.org/reform_principles.htm
snip:

There has also been afoot for some time the "debt-for-nature" scheme proposed at the 4th World Wilderness Conference held in Denver, Colorado in 1987 of forcing nations to transfer national parks and undeveloped areas (up to 30% of the world's wilderness - 12 billion acres) to a World Wilderness Trust or similar U.N. agencies (and thereby effectively losing sovereignty over part of their national territory) which would function as a collection agent for the IMF, the World Bank and private banks.
It would operate as follows:

Creditor banks transfer 3rd world debt to the World Conservation Bank (a new bank with a "soft" name) thereby relieving the debtor nations of their debt to the original banks;

at full book value (even though these loans now have market values as low as 6-25 cents on the dollar and cost the banks nothing to create due to fractional reserve banking - the legally required reserve ratio on such loans being typically 0%);

in return for such debt relief, the debtor nations would transfer to the World Wilderness Trust natural resource assets of equivalent value (World Heritage sites such as the Amazon basin or the gold-laden hills around Yellowstone will likely be included at some point);

The World Wilderness Trust will eventually allow development by the World Conservation Bank in order to pay the private banks full value for the transferred debts.

-Goldilox

This site has been posted before, but a second reading in light of our recent discussions got me thinking . . . how could they NOT nationalize resources in the ground?



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