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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/5/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) tg (04/05/01; 23:09:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 51459) (No Subject) Anyone notice how George W has toned down his aggressive stance towards China, to a statement of regret.I guess Greenspan must of had a word to George W and told him who holds the economic 'wild card'. justamereBear (04/05/01; 23:07:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 51458) Ross L 51452 Not trying to start anything, just to understand your post. You wrote to Al Fulchino re 51443 "that kind of collectivist statement really irritates me."The statement had 2 parts. One about expenses and taxes, and one about the government being you and me. Which is collectivist, and/or which part irritates you? BTW I agree with your general direction to auspec immediately following re "concept of union more important than constitution irritates me" and I am not even a citizen, however I guess I don't understand collectivist.Is collectivist a new US way of saying "commie"?j'Bear Al Fulchino (04/05/01; 21:22:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 51457) Ross L Al Fulchino #51443 - snip on the federal govt:"They are responsible for a significant portion costwise and only part of it is taxes. Oh and by the way, that goverment is you and me :) "Since you used the smiley after the statement, I don't know if you are serious or joking, but that kind of statement is the kind of collectivist statement that really irritates me!Ross, the point is that we have allowed ourselves to be screwed? Any questions? R Powell (04/05/01; 20:46:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 51456) Year to date gains by sector from page A20-21 of todays IBD newspaper. Defense -6.2% Defensive -12.9% Leisure -4.0% Consumer -11.0% Medical/Healthcare -19.7% Dow Transports -8.3% Dow Utilities -8.4% American Stock Ex. -6.5% N.Y.S.E. Composite -12.8% Gold +5.0% The paper lists ten gold mining companies making up this gold sector. The longer the gold sector is the only positive for the year, the more likely it might get noticed by some substantial money. How little (by comparison to other sectors) it would take to get us into full rock and roll mode. Rich R Powell (04/05/01; 20:34:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 51455) O-fer day No hat trick today. POG and AUX index down just slightly but lease rates were down a fair amount. Still higher than normal but down on the day. Agree with megatron. This is an upturn rally in a bear market. Perhaps the bear wants more money to tear apart. She's still a cub with a tremendous appetite. Rich Peter Asher (04/05/01; 20:30:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 51454) The Offline Blues Hi. This is Robin, Peter's wife, writing from my daughter's computer. Both Peter's and my computers died within two weeks of each other, and Peter has been without facilities since Tuesday morning. He hopes to be back in the land of the living by the weekend. megatron (04/05/01; 20:05:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 51453) Look out below,again Mark my words, todays rally in stocks was a pre-emptive strike against some VERY unhappy news that is about to be released, nothing more. Since Magoo couldn't raise rates today there was only one alternative. Make money the old fashioned way. How pathetic. I love how they say in the media 'investors' caused the rallies today. Tree in the Forest (04/05/01; 20:04:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 51452) Ross L You could indeed be right and Ted Butler has also made that assertion. The data I have collected is an attempt to prove or disprove this very idea. I don't know yet what it will show or even if I have enough data to show anything. But take a look at it when I post it and see if you can form an opinion. Thanks for your input. RossL (04/05/01; 19:57:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 51451) Notes from today's posts I haven't had much time to read or post lately, so I'm just going to interject a few quick comments.####SHIFTY # 51424 - End GameIs this guy for real? Has Doug been drinking too much coffee in the morning lately?####beesting #51429 - Snip from MARKETWATCH NEWS"This is a forward sale, which is fantastic. If everyone else in the market is doing the same thing, it would be foolish to do otherwise," Mitsui's Smith said."If the miners have hedge books, why should the central banks have any qualms about playing the same game?"Is this guy for real? Should I jump off a cliff if everybody else is? Could this be an acknowledgement that the central banks are intent on providing liquidity for futures markets?####Al Fulchino #51443 - snip on the federal govt:"They are responsible for a significant portion costwise and only part of it is taxes. Oh and by the way, that goverment is you and me :) "Since you used the smiley after the statement, I don't know if you are serious or joking, but that kind of statement is the kind of collectivist statement that really irritates me!####auspec #51446 - the union - "Whose allegiance do you pledge more closely, the Union or Constitution?"While I am raving about collectivism, the concept that the union is more important than the constitution is one that really really irritates me!####Tree in the Forest - I still believe that a lot of those "stoppers" are trading warehouse receipts among themselves. They may have a large percentage of that metal in allocated accounts. Canuck (04/05/01; 19:38:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 51450) @ Topaz No. Curious (04/05/01; 19:19:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 51449) Randy, Have the 5th Horsemen Contest winners been announced yet? Where or when will they be announced? http://www.sightings.com/general9/adam.htm I and other viewers would appreciate a listing of the posters, main themes and message numbers so that we could go back and review and compare the various entries. Some were truly outstanding. Or better yet repost them all together at one location if someone has the time to do this.I posted a contest entry as message number 51210 on 0401/01 on the theme The 10th (actually 12th) planet Nibiri by Zacharia Sitchin and was fascinated to see an article on the Sightings site dated 4 4 01 entitled the Case of Adam's Alien Genes by Dr. Sitchin that discussed several of the points that I was trying to recall from his previous writings. He again discussed the theory that man was created on this planet to mine the gold that the Anunnaki needed to maintain the atmosphere on the 12th planet that comes by Earth in a regular orbit about every 3600 years. Anyone who read my entry and was interested in learning more should look at his article linked above for a truly fascinating story. I wonder if he read my contest entry and then decided to post the above referenced article to the sightings site (grin). Tree in the Forest (04/05/01; 18:56:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 51448) Belgian Excellent posts today sir. You said:"And do the dollar/euro actors really know for sure the outcome of what they are planning ? No way ! Any accident can change the hidden course they have planned."I think you have really penetrated to an important issue here. With their overweening arrogance, "they" believe they have the power of God and can know and manage any desired outcome. They do have power but as Robert Burns once said, the best laid plans of mice and men "gang aft aglee". This is one place where I disagreed with Pandagold. He had an absolute belief in their power to bring their plan to fruition; I do not. And obviously you don't either. Belgian (04/05/01; 17:30:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 51447) The Austrian Tonnes Bureaucrats who pretend to manage their citizens reserves.To be compared with the Eurocrats. There is such an enormous amount of "OPPORTUNISM" that walks aside the evoluating EMU. The (FATAL) attraction of exposed WELFARE, that seems to grow relentlessly, is the key element, for the candidate EMU-joiners. It is not at all a sign of strenght, but isn't essential for the time being. In true modesty...you don't have any idea how high the general standard of living is for the average European. Spain and Portugal boomed literally after joining. The east-blockers are standing in line to come and work as ants in the EU.The general athmosphere is one of well-being. (false or true). The EMU refusers (opportunists) have some specific reasons...agricultural (Denmark), fiscal (Swiss) etc...But they will align.Even the UK will stop its anti-prop. one day. The Swiss might also have their anti europ reason (dark green money)...hey, they both sell gold ! Nahhh, they don't do it on purpose. You feel the stress...conflicts...opportunism...timing...difficult choices... The US is putting fences on the Mexican border. Europ is seducing more and more states to join. And if they put their house in order they can join the heavenly welfare union, without having to cross fences. Is this approach going to work for enough time ? That is not a goldadvocate's problem. First things first and start with the unmasking of the evil dollar and his alliance with devil debt. It will take some time before the poles, hongarians or the greek also realise that welfare is also created out of thin air.And now that we start to realise that the economic active world is going to expand substantially...it might be an explication why the excess amount of CB gold is re-distributed ? Yes, redistributed, rather than increased by the EMU junior joiners. They already have to take drastic measures to comply for EMU. So they couldn't be forced to align with CB gold reserves (premature POG-rise ?). Is that a possible reason for price-ranging the shiny ? Is that the reason why not one single buyer identity is allowed to be mentionned ? There can only be one reason why the buyers are not mentionned : if POG starts climbing...nobody can join the EMU anymore ! ????? Is this a too simple reason ?Does Acid Andy knows at what real price the Austrians have sold ? Has the EMU set a price on all Gold ? This weak a Belgian delegation went to Poland. It want take long before they also jump in. How much gold do they have ? And on what basis is each country supposed to buy or sell, shortage/excess of CB gold ? Eurocrats want to consolidate their existence, trough frentic adherence of other states. It is Each politician'sdream to retire very early into a european parlement seat with a king's salary. The political machine sees in this europarlement palace, an magnificent tool for recrutement.etc...etc... auspec (04/05/01; 16:43:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 51446) @ Old Yeller/Belgian/All http://www.goldensextant.com/commentary13.html#anchor3944 thanks Old Yeller for this link and re-read. Who better to solve a quandry put forth by Reg Howe than............Reg Howe. It is an European Union but it is a disparate union at that. Will the ECB be the ONLY central bank as of next year? Then we will likely see their policies manifest more clearly.On another entirely seperate note: I had a theoretical discussion with a friend a while back about possibly fighting {again} to save the "Union". I said I would more readily fight to save the Constitution than the Union, largely because our current state of the union is so pathetic. Our current Union threatens the very existence of the Constitution and I would rather those who don't respect the Constitution "go their way" than have the whole ship sink. What does this have to do with gold? Everything, that's what form of money our US Constitution calls for. Comments?? Whose allegiance do you pledge more closely, the Union or Constitution? CoBra(too) (04/05/01; 16:18:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 51445) On the other hand ... you have different fingers ... and as our great gold friend Andy Smith is using the Austrian Gold sale as an excuse "while the producers sell forward, CB's don't want to stand back" or such similar junk as the things that come to those who wait are the things left over by those who got there first. Pretty similar to the rubbish of the latest survey stating that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the global population... and 1/3 of all gold mined is still within the vaults of the CB's - whoa, there - maybe technical, though in form of gold IOU's from Chase JPM. Refuse, I hear, Oh no the new breed of CB greed started out with nothing tangible allowed - and they still have all of it. ....!? to wit ... cb2 laughs last and therefor thinks slowest ... Mr Gresham (04/05/01; 16:17:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 51444) Belgian Thank you for your Euro-views and helping us think through the relations between international players. Your insights help me see the possible pathway through time to changes that FOA suggests, but which are beyond my seeing now. You calm much confusion, I believe. Al Fulchino (04/05/01; 15:25:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 51443) Old Yeller/All...Speaking of Gasoline Old Yeller (04/05/01; 11:47:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 51430)Just today a 3-5 cent nationwide increase by a major oil company to its retailers. Large by usual standards.Aside from low stocks, all should keep in mind that Unocal has a patent of a reformulated gasoline ingredient that other oil companies do not want to pay a royalty to use. Additionally, some refiners do not want to get involved in producing the reformulated gasoline.When you purchase your product or spend time agonizing over the rises in price, keep the Federal Government in mind. They are responsible for a significant portion costwise and only part of it is taxes. Oh and by the way, that goverment is you and me :) CoBra(too) (04/05/01; 14:50:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 51442) @ Auspec, Belgian and all Just came back from a meeting concerning a golf course in my neighborhood - much more gratifying than the intricacies of global economies, markets and CNBC bottoms, whereby the latter may get a chance to kiss the bottoms of the mother of all bear market rallys - goodbye Joe Sixpack... hello WTO .-. " ... and yes, I've been furious some time ago, when the Austrian CB announced the sale of 90 tons of gold, 60t's to the mint and 30 t's outright sale. Even thought it won't fit into WA. - Anyway I've missed the chance to talk to the CB governor - as I've had to decline a luncheon on sunday,while my better half was sitting next to him - good for him ... as I'm still mad as hell, even if it's not red hot news it is infuriating, particularily the clamming up of every official, when mentioning the 4-letter word. ... As 'Sir Belgian' sees it much calmer in his quip of European's having no hostility against gold, only against the €, I'm starting to ask myself, do we really need Mr. Putin to make it work? and even if I see the logic in the end I'd feel compromised to no end. ... and CM your FT essay would have been something I would have loved to write, if I could write and/or have the intellect to put it together. Humbly - cb2 auspec (04/05/01; 14:38:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 51441) Sir Belgian Thank you, Sir Belgian for your usual keen insights! In regards to your "Currencies" post #51431, it is a nice compare and contrast of Dollar and Euro. Excellent perspective. Youth must be served, no? Of all the relative weaknesses of the Euro, the one that stands out the most is what you mentioned in post #51438....."Intuition tells me: there is no european hostility towards Gold. There is hostility against the Euro!" This house is still divided, they will kick and scream "until the last minute of the last day" {to quote someone I'm trying to forget}. If I understand you right, some go along with the dollar factions in hopes of sabotaging the Euro? Yes, have heard of countries that don't want to lose their influence/advantage of their strong currencies.All want oil in as much quantity and as cheap as possible, pricing oil in a particular currency is the grand prize! The paper gold market keeps gold cheap enough that oil interest feel they are able to receive long term value {shiny} for their dwindling resources. To this degree dollar entities benefit greatly and even the Euro countries benefit to a degree, but not as much as if oil were priced in Euros. So we arrive at a relative war on gold that basically ALL central banks have interest in, some much more than others.Of course you are right that "More than the G-10 members are involved in this coming change." You can point two fingers squarely at the US and Britain as they have shown themselves to be the gold ringleaders, but all who are not for free gold are against it. So who is the "mastermind"-- US or Britain {*or those that pull strings for both?*}? Multiple conflicts of interest and interests in conflict arise. Players with a short attention span {give me my interest rate cut NOW}, and those with a long term inevitable frame of reference. The young Euro will patiently wait its time, while the Dollar thrashes its way along on life support. A central banker can hold gold in the vault or in the ground somewhere, both having lasting value {of course one is preferable}. In order of priority please deed me 1}Physical, 2}Reserves, 3} Resources; all will play their role in your "coming change". The desert sands will yield their fruit.No, Sir Belgian, no irritation accompanied your posts, but a whiff of the lasting peace we await was clearly present. These issues are pretty big to try to "put in a box", and frustration is usually the result therein. Like I said: multiple conflicts of interest and interests in conflict. Thank you for playing 20 questions with me! Belgian (04/05/01; 14:11:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 51440) Cavan man Indeed Sir, Europ is a very strange animal. A modern Dinosaur with a friendly face. An opportunistic melting pot with pragmatic individuals swimming in a welfare bath.General flexibility is hidden under the matrasses and some other known places. What I wanted to communicate was the dynamic phase, the EMU is sliding into. While most of us were (are) still sceptic...reality is slowly materializing (235 days left).Odds are on a pleasant positive outcome, dispite the mountains of obstacles (wall of worry). That's what's bothering Big Brother Dollar. Europ is banning "nationalism" (cfr. Balkan) and therefore able to act in a much more pragmatic way. EMU is not enforced. Everything is done to make it attractive and to invite for joining. We are not imposing a currency. Do you agree with this essential difference ? Even when everybody realises this can't be perfect anyway.But all this EMU stuff does not mean "per se" that the dollar is going to be trashed ! IMO, he will have much more difficulties to hide its true nature. And once there is an alternative...people just try it. And that is no guarantee for succes. But the dollar will not use Gold anymore to hide its weakness. And the Euro, only has to suggest that it has something with gold. This could be the beginning of perception-change towards gold for the gold-investors. Not the gold-consumers !And it remains to be seen if EMU is using or going to use the gold-cart as joker ? Are dollar-reserves going to be changed for gold or euro ? Is (or has) the gold-excess been shifted to the future friends and euro-adherents ? This is what is possibly happening already for 6 years now. Is the EMU reschuffeling its gold internally or allocating it to China/ME ? Russia has enough gold of its own. GATA might do some wake up calling on the Russian goldside. After all, don't forget the enormous energy resources, unexploited in Russia. One day they are going to use this to put their messy state in order. Interesting times ! I hope we can make it without war. canamami (04/05/01; 13:27:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 51439) Significance of SNB not using the BIS.... to sell its gold?Could this corroborate Reg Howe's thesis that the BIS has joined the anti-gold camp? Belgian (04/05/01; 13:22:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 51438) @ Sir Auspec Intuition tells me : there is no european hostility towards Gold. There is hostility against the Euro !It seems as if poor old gold is standing between Dollar and Euro. Shizofrenic behaviour of POG is the result of total abstinention to VALUE POG : NOW ! But when these two dogs (dollar/euro) keep on fighting for the Golden bone...the bone never gets eaten. Again, who got the juicy goldbone meat that the Austrians sold ? Acid Andy...do you know it ?The two fighting dogs aren't really hungry for the moment.They just want to have a good fight. They'll get hungry later and will find out that others have been hiding the bone. Isn't it rather amusing, Sir Auspec.In the mean time, Big miners, are relatively relaxed with their proven underground reserves for the next 20 years. Why should they bother ? If I reconsider the reason why this little country Belgium (10 million cit.) has been selling (reschuffling) 1.000 tons out of 1.300...I understand why we were able to accumulate so much internal debt (120% GDP) without being left out of the EMU !We are resasoning as good housefathers with some common sense. "They", just tingk totally different. Politicians and oligopolists have another set of brains and emotions.There is a common reason for keeping POG at a very visible low price. We already concluded on that famous "mutual interest" (ORO). If one day we will know for sure "WHY", we might turn crazy. The Trail-people have been suggesting very intelligent reasons why things are as they are.My intuition out of the circumstances, tells me, it all points to the dollar/euro, coming relationship. More than the G-10 members are involved in this coming change. And if we add oil as another bone into this fight...it becomes even more complicated.And do the dollar/euro actors really know for sure the outcome of what they are planning ? No way ! Any accident can change the hidden course they have planned.POG doesn't matter today for every party that is in the possesion of the Physical. Price or valuation of gold is not at all influenced by the normal/natural offer/demand equation. There is more than enough time left for the REAL valuation en following pricing of Physical Gold for its loyal holders. The dollar + euro + oil can wait for that ultimate moment of truth.Since I am to stupid to unraffle geopolitics...I'll stick to some philosophical reflexions. Mixed with a large dosis of commen sense, endurance and faith.Goldproducers keep on consolidating (FN.TO/NORM). They are concentrating their reserves for long term planning. Mine fragmentation must make place for power concentration. This is not going to change POG, but adding to a better pricing after the ultimate RE-VALUATION of Gold. Compare this with the evolution of OPEC. Gold and Oil, intentionally or not, are preparing to break free from the Dollar and probably the US in particular. They are both the most political tangibles, one can imagine. Are they running out of imagination as to how "recycling" a more and more obvious printed "DEBT" paper ? What to do with these worthless mountains of dollars ? They have been used to build that SM Ponzi pyramid. The pyramid is eroding, but oil and gold are still under the desert sand. The dollar pyramids have been travelling to stone-aged areas (china/russia/)...and started something growing. Europ wants its share of the future new global expansion. This ellbow-work is in progress. It is not the moment to worry about that little hill of shiny stuff lying there. It must be kept in the shadow for emotional reasons. They will use it one day !Sir Auspec...did I succeed in bringing you some peace of mind or rather irrition with no answer 2 cents ? Cavan Man (04/05/01; 13:14:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 51437) Belgian There was a very interesting editorial in the FT yesterday concerning the Euro. According to the author, there is a tremendous amount of currency denominated in DM etc. that is the product of black market activities (16% of EU GDP!!!!) and/or stuffed in mattresses in Eastern Europe. When there in fact is a physical, Euro legal tender to be exchanged, the Euro should rise strongly if for not other reason than the exchange from one currency to another. FWIW Strad Master (04/05/01; 12:57:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 51436) Fascinating Scientific URL for Gold Lovers http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010405.html Follow the above link to a fascinating explanation of how gold may have originated in the universe. It's always nice to have a chance to step back and look at the really big picture every now and then. I don't get to post much these days but I want to let you all know that our newest little Strad is due in only 6 more weeks. I will keep all the Lords and Ladies of this esteemed round table informed... auspec (04/05/01; 12:54:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 51435) cb2 Austrian Gold Sales It's time to use your influence, man! Cavan Man (04/05/01; 12:40:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 51434) Hello FOA/Trail Guide Sure would be nice to get an update from you. Events seem to run in the direction of your thoughts but it is still quite difficult to see the forest through the trees. Many tributaries feed the mainstream. Topaz (04/05/01; 12:27:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 51433) Canuck That's good to hear, (you not being ill)The 100/1000 is where I'm at now and (lottery wins aside) have adopted a "watch the show" attitude also.Curious to know...are you the Kitco "canuck" ?? Old Yeller (04/05/01; 12:14:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 51432) Auspec:#51428,beesting:#51428 http://www.goldensextant.com/commentary13.html#anchor3944 Great posts,the plot thickens and surprise;down come the lease rates.I'm sure you both have read this commentary from Reg Howe,however, it gives a fine illustration of the schism within the ECB on this particular topic.Just what master are the Austrians serving here?I always love reading the insightful comments from Andy Smith.May he go down in history as the Abbey Joseph Cohen of the gold analysts. Belgian (04/05/01; 12:02:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 51431) Currencies About the Euro : Of course Europ has its particular weaknesses. But don't underestimate the pragmatism of apparent weak politicians.- The Euro is new-born and therefore automatically attractive. It is for this reason that the dollar-offensive was the best defense to withdraw any attention for this new appealing currency. - Europ and europeans in general have a very high savings-rate ! An excellent buffer for consumer economics.- The Euro already exists 20 years now. As ECU before and the start with EGKS (European community for coal and steel)- Europ is holding on to a non-conflict policy. This is in sharp contrast with US as world-ruler. China/ME/Russia, do feel much more comfortable with European consensus politics.- Europ is preaching extreme tolerance and welfare pragmatism.- Already 12 member states and some other are eagerly waiting to join. I am not trying to say that the Euro/Europ is better/stronger/ or any other possible adjective. Just want to sum up, why the Euro, might serve as an alternative for the dollar, when time has come.It is against this perspective that the valuation of 140.000 tons of Gold (and oil)must been seen. Neither Gold or oil are grossly valuated in function of pure offer and demand. Prices are the result of offer and demand.Germany is hyper linked with Russian oil and gas. France is specialized in ME silent diplomacy. Small Europeans have long traditionnal (friendly) ties with China. New valuations and standards/anchors, might slowly appear against the overused dollar-monotony. Europ is avoiding China-incidents, Golf-Balkan wars. Maybe we are to weak to solve a conflict. But that's probably why they are going to like us...pourvu que sa dure (for as long as it lasts) Consider the following: : World oil-producers receive 0,625 trillion $/year in a currency that is carrying 5,6 trillion $ of state debts.The fundamental difference with the debt on the Euro is that this debt is proportionally much less and carried internally through its savers. Dollar debt expanded outside the US. The interests are gone. In Europ the interests on debt serve an economic purpose by consumption and partly recuperated with high taxes on consumption.The japanese currency-intervention warning today was significant. They don't want the boat to be rocked, or...Goldminers stormed ahead, but lost it all just before the close. POG is weakening in Euro also. This, against a stronger POO ! The positive divergence of the mines, might point to a POG ($) double bottom. Dollar started to show some weakness (TA just in time) with diving SM, but countered temporarely with todays surge. Indeed, relax and...keep on accumulating the shiny. Old Yeller (04/05/01; 11:47:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 51430) Time for hydro-carbon man's springtime show? I found this info in a story posted by Ted at the Kitco forum;Apr.5,9:07.Source is the Wall St. Journal.Sorry,no URL was posted.Quotes from the text;"gasoline stocks are at their lowest ever at the start of the second quarter or 193 million barrels under a year ago.""Refineries have beem slow to emerge from maintenance.Refiners collectively are cutting it awfully close.""first quarter demand set a record at 8.2 million barrels a day,while output and imports also hit their highest ever levels.""although none expects a repeat of last year's sustained high prices,analysts say thin inventories do set the stage for price spikes during the summer driving season."There seems to be some convulted logic here.The last statement in it's soothing tone seems rather incongruouswith the facts provided beforehand.It would appear to me that the situation for this year looks a lot more tenous than last year beesting (04/05/01; 11:44:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 51429) Austria Sells 30 Tonnes of Gold. http://www2.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/newsArticles.asp?guid=%7BC06F3F3D%2D6825%2D48D9%2D96E0%2DCA3BA2D4709C%7D& NewsFinder MARKETWATCH NEWS NEWS SERVICES COMPANY RELEASES NEWS SEARCH UPDATE 1-Austria sells 30 tonnes of gold reserves 4/5/2001 11:20:00 AM (adds analyst comment, background detail throughout) By Peter Nestler and Amanda Cooper VIENNA/LONDON April 5 (Reuters) - The Austrian National Bank said on Thursday it had sold 30 tonnes of gold, ending intense market speculation about who was behind sales that came to light in European Central Bank figures on Wednesday. Rudolf Trink, head of the Austrian National Bank's Treasury Department, told Reuters the sales brought to 60 tonnes the amount recently sold by the bank. Trink declined to specify the timing of the sales. "The gold sale did not take place yesterday and you have to bear in mind the possibility of futures transactions," he said. He said the bullion may have been sold in tranches, saying "different maturities are possible in futures transactions." The sales were announced as part of the 1999 Washington Accord, under which 15 European central banks agreed to limit their gold sales and lending to 400 tonnes a year and to a total of 2,000 tonnes over five years. At the time, Austria said it planned to sell a total of 90 tonnes over the five-year period. "It had to be Austria by a process of elimination," said analyst Andy Smith of Mitsui. Given that the sales already planned for this fiscal year by four of the signatories had exhausted the quota set by the accord, which was spearheaded by ECB chief Wim Duisenburg, there was no further scope for a new seller, Smith said. "We've got 200 tonnes coming from the Swiss, another 135 tonnes from the UK, which leaves 65 tonnes. Austria sold 30 tonnes in the last Duisenburg year, which leaves 35 tonnes for the Netherlands, so there is no more room for another name." "This is a forward sale, which is fantastic. If everyone else in the market is doing the same thing, it would be foolish to do otherwise," Mitsui's Smith said. "If the miners have hedge books, why should the central banks have any qualms about playing the same game?" The gold market has already absorbed 100 tonnes of gold from the Netherlands since December 1999, the first tranche of a Dutch plan to sell 300 tonnes over the five years. The Swiss National Bank is in the midst of selling 1,300 tonnes of excess gold reserves, while the UK is over half way through a programme of regular auctions to cut its holdings by around 395 tonnes. The gold price is under constant pressure -- not just from central bank disposals, but also from producer forward selling. Britain's transparent auction method attracts criticism from the market as it drives down the price, but the Bank of England has stook its ground and refused to use another method. Both the Swiss and the Austrians have used the Bank of International Settlements in some of their sales. The Swiss have now switched to selling on the market with institutional partners, while the Austrians did not disclose what method they used. Spot gold <XAU=> remained relatively untroubled, losing only narrow ground to $257.90/258.40 a troy ounce in the wake of the annoucement from Vienna, down from the afternoon fixing in London at $258.10. Whether this sale by the Austrians will encourage other official players to follow remains to be seen, but Smith said gold was unlikely to get any respite from keen sellers. "As far as I know, there are no gold miners signed up to the Duisenburg accord, so yes, there will be other sellers. As long as the Duisenburg queue remains orderly, then that will leave scope for others to be less orderly," he said. auspec (04/05/01; 11:17:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 51428) Reg Howe Review/Comments & Questions http://www.goldensextant.com Reg Howe Review/Comments & QuestionsI have been combing through Reg Howe's 2-20-01 essay entitled "Hidden Faces Of Modern Imperialism: AngloGold, Barrick and the BIS", and find it fascinating as usual for Mr. Howe's work. A few comments are in order. First AngloGold is 53% owned by Anglo American PLC, an international conglomerate that also controls De Beers. I wonder if these guys know anything about cartels? Barrick Gold is controlled via Peter Munk and TrizecHahn Corp, an international real estate developer. We all know Barrick's staple has been its aggressive hedging, which is quite risky unless one is quite sure of a continued low POG. "The overall profits of their parent companies, Anglo American and TrizecHahn, are far more dependent on continued strength in the G-10 economies than on higher gold prices." Reg goes on to finger the G-10 as the gold price manipulators: "...the G-10 central banks operating a price fixing scheme through the Bank for International settlements in an increasingly desperate war against gold." In 1994 the European Central Bank {ECB} was put on track to replace the BIS as the major European banking vehicle. So the BIS needed a new job description and found it as a more global financial entity, asking for 10 to 25 new non-European members. Alan Magoo, among others, stepped up to the plate. Do I have the correct list of countries that are G-10 members: England, US, Canada, Japan, South Africa, Italy, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand? Since this is supposedly a G-10 and BIS ploy, doesn't it strike one as a bit unusual that some of the same countries that signed the WA are some of the G-10 suppressors? In hindsight the WA seems a rather toothless event as it allowed for the continued leasing of gold as opposed to stopping it outright. It still seems unusual to me that there was NO COMMENT from the US in regards to the WA. No spin, no backlash, nada. They were obviously not taken by surprise and it was not entirely to their disliking. Then we see more gold enter the market than was allowed for when the POG spiked up in response to the WA. Some "agreement". Obviously not too binding. I guess they do have the gold {for now} and get to make the rules. Another thing that strikes one as rather strange {if indeed I have my facts right} is the presence of South Africa on the list of G-10's. Is S. Africa merely a British colony to this day? This would qualify for the perfect definition of an oligarchy. When Bill Murphy and GATA appeal to South Africa they may be making more of a frontal assault than an end run! Reg Howe's article goes on to explain Peter Fisher's recent and probable current standing as a member of the all important "Gold and Foreign Exchange Committee of the G-10 central banks". Quite a guy that Petey. He'll clen up things for sure. We next get into IMF entry into this scenario, which would be contra {more Contras} the wishes of the US Congress, another end run. We regularly read about "earmarked'" foreign gold leaving the US for firefighting duties abroad {I've always wanted to go to London}. Will quote Reg again...."My hunch is that much of this official outflow is IMF gold deposited with -- and loaned out by -- the BIS. I also suspect that part of the reason for the cumpulsory freeze-out by the BIS's private shareholders is to avoid publication of annual financial reports that might disclose some of this activity." If they are taking IMF gold to market it is hitting the market and not coming back. Otherwise they would have no need for continued withdrawals of this gold. So what do we have here but a couple of gigantic slush funds, IMF and BIS in the hands of those who control a few powerful countries? Accountable to few and able to advance an agenda quite nicely. It's the IMF, G-10, and BIS looking out for the weaker and developing countries. This is no ordinary resource/land grab! What all this shows is the tremendous difficulty we are having in even defining WHO the enemies of gold are! Is Reg correct in this portrayal of G-10? Not too long ago the LBMA turnover was totally unknown. Many thought the BIS was a free gold advocate. Are the nations of the WA pro or anti free gold? What the hell is going on in South Africa? Their people might get a bit upset over all this. This is a war of Euro against dollar? Elitists and their agenda are not just limited to the G-10, right? Are the G-10 so committed to the dollar that they will sacrifice gold? Why would the G-10 run this gold cabal? Are all of there economies that tied to a low gold price {but S.A.}? As usual a few answers only brings more questions. If these guys are nailed dumping IMF gold or US Treasury gold they are going to be in real trouble. They won't tolerate the light of day! The London Gold Pool was run in full daylight and failed miserably so they run this venture behind a thick smokescreen {but the winds are blowing}. Any feedback as to this excellent Howe essay? It stands alone nicely but is difficult for me to integrate into other aspects of the gold manipulation. Thanks. Journeyman (04/05/01; 09:48:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 51427) The MAIN reason? @Old Yeller, ALL http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/default-200145225718.htm Sen. Robert C. Smith, New Hampshire Republican, said in an interview that the detention of the EP-3 [spy plane by China], if it continues, should prompt the administration to "approve the sale of Aegis systems . . . and P-3s" to TaiwanAnd thanks to Old Yeller for the original link!Regards,j. Old Yeller (04/05/01; 09:20:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 51426) Tough talk may be hazardous to your financial health http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/default-200145225718.htm We have been discussing this topic for years.Does anybody have current figures on Chinese US dollar reserves?Last I can remember they stood at around 180 billion.The Chinese don't have to listen to this,and they don't have to fire any bullets to win this war.Thanks to woolybear at prubear forum for the link. Old Yeller (04/05/01; 09:02:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 51425) Peek into the future,what kind of money does the world really want? http://www.prudentbear.com/boards/user/non-frames/message.asp?forumid=4&messageid=38236&threadid=38230 Sooner or later,the people of the world will tire of this.In the meantime,let the games continue. SHIFTY (04/05/01; 08:27:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 51424) End Game http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/mcintosh040601.html From Gold Eagle by Doug McIntosh6 April 2001$hifty SHIFTY (04/05/01; 08:05:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 51423) Disgusted But in it to the end Im really starting to get disgusted with all the manipulation. Not that I haven't been disgusted for the last few years. Im having a hard time watching rigged markets any more. Im afraid the new administration in Washington DC (district of criminals) is not much better than what we have had for the past eight years.$hifty SteveH (04/05/01; 06:01:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 51422) Dow Futures up big-time this morning Seems some S&P futurists don't want to see the DOW hit the 20% decline-from-high mark and have pulled the stops to see that it doesn't happen. This is the second try for a fall below that mark. IMO LeSin (04/05/01; 05:59:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 51421) @ EURO & RUSSIA = Interesting Conference, Yes http://russia.strana.ru/stories/2001/04/05/986467033/986466926.html Russia is sizing up the European currency05.04.01. 14:36 On April 5, Moscow is hosting Euro-2001 Conference devoted to the introduction of euro cash, which has been organized by Switzerland-based Sovereign Group with support from the Russian Bank Association, the Academy of People's Economy under the Government of the Russian Federation, and the International Moscow Currency Exchange. The Conference is attended by prominent Russian and Western financiers, economists and bankers, as well as representatives of the Central Bank of Russia, the Finance Ministry, the State Duma, commercial banks, and foreign trade companies.The introduction of euro cash is more than a topical matter for Russia. The problem is not only that all foreign economic settlements, for example, for railroad shipments, are in Swiss francs and soon it will be necessary to switch over to euros. The Conference discusses a range of problems, like what the introduction of euro cash will do to Russia's competitiveness; work in the EU capital market after the euro is in (state and corporate debts, stock, forward markets); legal regulation of euro-priced export-import operations; the fight against Swiss-based money laundering; the U.S. crisis and the euro-zone economy; forecasts for the euro exchange rate against the U.S. dollar, and many others.Even physical persons are showing an increased interest in the behavior of the European currency. Given the slowing down of the U.S. economy, the interest has become particularly pronounced during the recent crisis spiral in the world financial markets. The more so that starting from the next year Russian citizens will have an opportunity to buy euros.The Moscow Conference is taking place against the background of an unstable euro. But for the Russian economy the slide in the exchange rate of the euro against the U.S. dollar may be regarded as a quite positive tendency. Russian exports are mostly priced in dollars while imports are predominantly euro-priced and therefore the drop in the euro rate has led to the real strengthening of the ruble. Many economists, as, for example, director of the Institute of the Transitional Economy, Yegor Gaidar, predict that within the next five years the euro rate will be $1-1.1 for a euro. Leaps from 80 to 130 cents for one euro are not excluded either. CoBra(too) (04/05/01; 04:58:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 51420) @ Old Yeller Re: FN/NDY Thank you for posting this excellent article on Mining Web. Still, it may be prudent to again caution that Normandy's reserves are 60% hedged and if caught un the wrong foot it still may become a potential hazard. Anyway, as I stated I do respect the managewrial prowess of Schulich and Lassonde, though I hope they're rigjht in this decision and still feel the SA Gov. has been extremely shortsighted to kill the FN/GOLD merger. A way superior fit I would have thought.Regards and thank you cb2 Canuck (04/05/01; 04:45:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 51419) Topaz, Fredbear, Ironhead Thanks for the titles boys.Adam Smith has Supermoney, The Money Game and Paper Money.I'm in Ottawa Ironhead. I was in Kingston last week-end which is about 100 miles due south of Ottawa. Kingston, of course is on the St. Lawrence with Watertown, N.Y. (I believe) accross the river. Saturday afternoon while I stood on the north shore I waved at my American friends and yelled "What's with this dollar thing, eh?" (smile)Not ill Topaz, just lying low. In the immortal words of Aristotle a year or so ago, "sit back, relax and watch the action." My goal of 100 oz. of gold and 1000 oz. of silver is now in view. FOA, ORO and ARI are M.I.A.? Their lurkerness bothers me. I sense that they feel their mission is complete? Now covering tracks as the 'big one' hits?Wild stories in the papers everyday; situation approaches critical, yes?Have a golden day amigos.Canuck Black Blade (04/05/01; 02:47:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 51418) Federal Judge Bans OPEC Controls http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010403/bs/opec_suit_1.html Snippit:BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) - A federal judge ruling in a price-fixing lawsuit filed against OPEC by an Alabama service station barred the oil cartel from controlling Mideast crude-oil production. The judge then barred OPEC from doing virtually anything to set or enforce production quotas among member nations. ``It's a nice curiosity that has no practical meaning,'' said Jonathan Berck, who specializes in international law.Black Blade: I would like to see how this judge will enforce the court order. Maybe he will ban the import of OPEC oil. Hmmm… We are going to have higher energy costs regardless. Golden Dreams All! IronHead (04/05/01; 02:20:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 51417) IronHead - A Fallow Plot To Sabotage The Link www.usasurvival.org/ Type it into location header, it works fine. IronHead (04/05/01; 02:11:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 51416) IronHead - Retry of link www.usasurvival.org/ If it does not work now, something is fishy in the moat. Topaz (04/05/01; 01:58:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 51415) Lease rate tracking higher A visit to LBMA lease rate page (via CPM's link at the top of the page) reveal the 1 Mth rate is now 3.14%...and on a steady upswing.The "Gos" is Lebanon CB declined to enter into a lease deal with BoE...hence the higher rate...Hmmmm!When IS the next "real, physical, true-blue, 24kt, Good-delivery" Auction?I'll bet the Chancellor is up night's practicing his "Yodelling" (...also an Ozzie coll. for "being sick!") IronHead (04/05/01; 01:51:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 51414) Canuck - Rable Rousing Reading RE: your #51388 www.usasurvival.org Hello Sir Canuck - From just a few miles south of the border, as the crow flies direct from Pendicton. Beautimous country up there, eh?Although not pertaining to Canada specifically; the above link and the book "The New United Nations' Welfare Giveaway" by Cliff Kincaid paints a picture of America and Canada following lockstep towards a socialistic regime that any good Stalinist would be proud of.The following are a few clips from the book. Possibly appearing off topic; I'll try to provide a lassoing synopsis.pg. 27 << AFL-CIO President John J. Sweeney, who is poised to exercise considerable influence over the next Congress, is another key advocate of foreign aid. He is also an identified member of the far-left Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), the principal U.S. affiliate of the Marxist Socialist International>>pg. 42 <<The ties between the U.S. the U.N. and the AFL-CIO are quite substantial. Sweeney was a memeber of the Leadership Council of the [Emergency Coalition for U.S. Financial Support] of the United Nations, which lobbied for a financial bailout of the U.N. It claimed the backing of all the former secretaries of state, and over 110 business, labor, civic, and religious organizations. Other members included James A. Baker III, Henry A. Kissinger, David Rockefeller, George P. Schultz, Brent Scowcroft, Lawrence S. Eagleburger, former President Jimmy Carter, George J. Mitchell, Alexancer M. Haig Jr., Richard L. Thornburgh, and George Soros.>> IronHead - Think this cast of characters does not have some influence now? Jr. their boy, no?Here is where gold and China starts to enter the scene - pg. 32 <<Like the AFL-CIO, Annan, too, had spoken of new global "financial architecture," telling the so called "Group of 77" nations and China that the U.N. itself must be "involved in discussions" to bring it about.>> further: << Sweeney's proposed "new controls" over financial capital are the first step towards a global tax. In this context, New Mexico Senator Jeff Bingaman's proposal for a variation of a global tax to fund liberal initiatives requires explanation and comment. Bingaman, the head of a working group of Senators, prepared this proposal at the request of Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle. Bingaman of course, didn't call it a global tax,>> further:<< But his proposal did call for an "A- Fund," financed by a "securities transfer excise tax" (STET), to be enforced on an international basis by the G-7 industialized countries.>> further, {{here is where GOLD comes in}} <<The tax would extend to transactions by individuals corporations, and tax-exempt pension funds and other entities and would apply to stocks, bonds, options, futures, and swaps of currency {{gold perhaps?}}, interest rates, and other assets.>>IronHead - Whether this legislation ever comes to fruition is anyone's guess, but the premise of the book is to show the concerted effort by the fallow creators to capture as much of "our" wealth, in effort to re-distribute it to "supposedly" third world nations. More like; third rate thieves lining backpockets, through the auspices of the U.N.The "A-Fund" transfer tax was what really caught my interest, as it displayed the methodology of how a socialist system would plan an aquisition of individual as well as corporate wealth on a global basis. Gold in hand today, outside the registration and confiscation schemes of the falsifiers, could be the ONLY avenue of financial freedom we have available.What part of the North Country are you in, Sir Canuck?Salutations,IronHead Black Blade (04/05/01; 01:08:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 51413) Lawmakers Address Calif. Energy Woes http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010404/pl/congress_energy_1.html Snippit:WASHINGTON (AP) - House Republicans are working on a plan to waive some clean air provisions and direct the use of more federal portable generators to ease California's summer power crunch. ``Price caps don't work,'' said Barton, although he told an energy conference Wednesday, ``We can't just say let California take care of California.'' Black Blade: Grasshoppers lay out plans to make raid on Ants! Look for energy costs to rise sharply in coming months. If price controls are attempted the problem will get worse as happened in 1973 which happened at the outset of a long painful recession. Black Blade (04/05/01; 01:00:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 51412) Relentless Warnings Destabilize Stocks http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010404/business_stocks_earnings_dc_6.html Snippit:NEW YORK (Reuters) - Just when Wall Street began to pick up its head after weeks of pummeling, Corporate America walloped it again this week with a fresh slew of earnings warnings, leaving the U.S. profit picture looking ever more dismal.Black Blade: In fact a record 756 earnings warnings so far! A lot of downside left in the market as valuations are still historically high. Black Blade (04/05/01; 00:55:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 51411) Fed Officials Warn Jobless Rate May Rise http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010404/business_economy_fed_dc_68.html Snippit:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two Federal Reserve officials on Wednesday cautioned that even though the U.S. economy may skirt a recession, the unemployment rate was likely to move higher in coming months.Black Blade: This could put a lot of pressure on consumer confidence. Watch for Friday's unemployment numbers. Old Yeller (04/05/01; 00:08:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 51410) CB2;interesting article on FN/Normandy deal http://m1.mny.co.za/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B285256A2500014AEB?OpenDocument Quote from the text;"Should we be surprised to wake up one morning and dicover that Franco-Normandy is the most powerful name in gold."Look out,Barrick and Anglogold,your warm and fuzzy little world may be getting a tad uncomfortable. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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