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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 1/4/2007
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

contrarian (1/4/07; 22:54:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 150732)
Dollar Collapse?
Tejbear--Just my two cents (or is that 2.6 cents?) I think if there's any dollar collapse, it will happen quickly, not gradually over a period of years. This is how nature behaves, for example, as you can see last week, how they discovered 40 or so square miles of ice detaching from the Arctic. It happened in an hour. A critical state of instability is reached--a tipping point, as it were--and then all it needs is one little, seemingly insignificant catalyst, a little push, for it to all come crashing down. There are hidden faults of instability, such as in the earth's crust, whose energy is suddenly released in a destructive way.

Nature does not behave perfectly in a continuum. Also, look at state changes in matter. Water suddenly freezes to ice at 0 Celsius--it's not a gradual thing. So maybe Mogambo Guru is right and the whole thing could happen in a month. Certainly the Euro 2020 people envision such a crisis over this year, leading to a new monetary structure.

mikal (1/4/07; 20:59:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 150731)
The high stakes allocated to world oil reserves
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20070104&articleId=4347
The "Demonization" of Muslims and the Battle for Oil
Michel Chossudovsky | Global Research | January 4, 2007
Apart from politics, religion, and any built in bias,
this short essay, like it's maps and charts,
offers a glimpse of economic dimensions of world energy resources/supplies.
It's also not hard to associate certain distortions and dislocations or other implications to the environment, society and world markets, with
the experimental, overextended duration of petro dominance
and exploitation.
Neither can the devastating characteristics of many natural disasters ever seem enough to dissuade rulers from
unecessary and unsustainable practices until the calamity is epic (irrefutably impressive).

David Linkley (1/4/07; 20:46:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 150730)
Oil's drop
Word reached me today that another hedge fund in trouble may be the reason for oil's severe drop over the past several days. I have not been able to confirm but it makes alot of sense.

silvester (1/4/07; 19:54:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 150729)
TC post 150724 Digital Gold

Great post Town Crier. If one could change anything it would be the Charles Schumer and Lindsey Graham written statement about floating currencies.

It should have said " One of the fundamental tenets of free trade is that gold should float."





Flatliner (1/4/07; 18:24:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 150728)
Gold reserves measured in Euros rather than dollars.
http://english.people.com.cn/200701/05/eng20070105_338371.html
Romania's international reserves at 22.93 billion euros

Romania's international reserves stood at 22.93 billion euros (one euro now stands at about 1.31 U. S. dollars) on Dec. 31, 2006, the 104.7 tons of gold worth of 1. 625 billion euros included, the National Bank of Romania informed on Thursday.

The foreign currency reserve grew 84.2 million euros in December. Receipts of 509 million euros were registered in December, representing revenues from international reserve management, change in the foreign-exchange required reserves deposited by commercial banks and transfers to official foreign exchange reserves.

Outflows reached 428.8 million euros, representing principal payments and interest payments on the external public debt, direct and bearing the guarantee of the Ministry of Public Finance.

The gold stock stood flat at 104.7 tons, but following the developments in the world price of gold its value fell to 1,625 billion euros.


mikal (1/4/07; 17:54:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 150727)
@TC
Thanks, you have a way with words. Good posts are like good currency to the mind. Do you save all your "money" essays in one "digital" place? ;) Would make it easier for anyone to make "good" on them IMHO.

mikal (1/4/07; 17:07:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 150726)
Digital gold to da moon??
http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/04/markets/gold.reut/index.htm?section=money_markets
Gold hits one-week low
Rising dollar and falling oil prices pressure the metal; jobs data awaited.
January 4 2007: 5:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (Reuters) --Snippittses: "Gold fell to a one-week low in late trading Thursday, hurt by lackluster oil prices and a dollar rally, as investors awaited Friday's U.S. jobs data, which should set direction for the dollar."
By 3:28 p.m. EST, spot gold fell to $621.50/622.50, against $627.70/628.70 in New York late on Wednesday. It hit a low of $622.50, last seen on Dec. 26."
Mikal-- We've waded into one of these where we're underestimated rudely, just what we like for a quick knockout. "Hurt" and at a "low" they say and that's just for starters.
But we're not playing around...

"Benchmark gold for February delivery on the COMEX metals trading division of the New York Mercantile Exchange was down $3.60 at $626.20 an ounce, traded in a tight range between $625.70 and $632.80 an ounce.
The dollar climbed for a second straight day, gaining support from a recent run of upbeat economic data that has lowered expectations the Federal Reserve may cut interest rates in coming months."
Mikal-- Now the aggressor pulls out his fancy, customary repertoire of offensive rationalizations. Little does he know they've become so ineffective and obvious they
make our work at humiliating him SO much easier. And that's not going to change because he has the home ring advantage. Come to Papa...

"The latest round of U.S. economic data - including Thursday's pending home sales and the Institute for Supply Management's report on the services sector - supported the view that although the economy is slowing, there are no signs of a sharp slowdown on the horizon.
"The move lower we have seen in the past couple of days has been more dollar-related than anything else. We might see some more weakness short-term, but gold will be well supported and I don't think we are going to dip below $600," said James Moore, precious metals analyst at TheBullionDesk.com."
Mikal-- James Moore, one of the few veteran pundits in the gold bull tournament, that is MARKET so far, delivers one of his masterful feints to put us off balance. But we're not buying it...

"Oil plunged another 5 percent on Thursday, adding to a 4 percent drop the previous session, as U.S. fuel stocks showed a big build amid unusually mild weather in the world's top energy consumer.
Gold prices tend to fall when energy prices drop, as the yellow metal is generally seen as a hedge against oil-led inflation."
Mikal-- To make things interesting, the opponent will occasionally attempt to distract and entertain by shaking
off a visible shower of sweat and body oil..

"It's just a consolidation phase. I think we will see gold higher later in the year, but short-term sentiment is little damaged," a European precious metals trader said."
Mikal-- I thought he was saying "is a little damaged", but he(she?) came close. We won't be dissillusioned by silly subliminal wordplay, especially from anonymous sources...

"The metal ended 2006 on a high note, rising 23 percent on an influx of funds diversifying their investments into markets with the potential for higher returns than stocks. It spiked to a 26-year high of $730 an ounce on May 12, 2006."
Mikal-- Neither will we fall prey to sentimental reminiscing...

""Falls in energy prices and other commodities, such as copper and other base metals, are worrying, but gold will continue to draw a lot of safe-haven demand with the situation in Iran unresolved and continuing tension in the Middle East," said Hisaaki Tasaka, a market analyst at Ace Koeki Co. Ltd.
Copper futures on the London Metal Exchange fell to a new nine-month low on expectations of a supply glut this year. Other base metals also declined, while oil extended losses.
Dealers said key U.S. economic data this week might provide cues about the dollar outlook and set direction for the precious metals market."
Mikal-- Parroting the obvious and trivializing the fundamentals does not ruffle our feathers...

""The markets are waiting for the number tomorrow," said Leonard Kaplan, president of Prospector Asset Management, referring to the U.S. nonfarm payrolls report, due at 8:30 a.m. EST (1330 GMT) on Friday.
A weak reading on job data would likely strengthen the view the U.S. Federal Reserve may start cutting interest rates in coming months to shore up a slowing economy."
Mikal-- We are delighted this fight features ANOTHER veteran pundit sizing up our market and giving us the TRUE agenda...

""There is a fair bit of key economic data in the U.S. over coming days, and that really is going to determine the fate of the greenback and where gold prices are likely to trend," Craig James, chief economist at Commonwealth Securities in Sydney, said."
Mikal-- Craig James! A triple header tag team of veteran
spin artists in one night! I've said it before and I'll say it again- it doesn't get any better than this.

Flatliner (1/4/07; 16:53:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 150725)
Digging back in the Archives
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/archives/14200611/default.html
Flatliner (11/14/06; 13:46:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 149348)
@yesterday's The Invisible Hand posting that read
Snip:
CENTRAL BANK CHIEFS TO TAKE ON OIL, GAS CARTELS
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=29&ContentID=12866
The world's most powerful central bankers will meet in Melbourne next weekend to try to pry open the global oil cartel, with the aim of bringing down petrol prices at the pump.
As the oil price edges back up towards $US60 a barrel, they want to loosen the world's tightly bound oil and gas markets and avert a destructive scramble for energy resources.
+
"We would like there to be some agreement that cartels should not operate in open global and competitive energy markets," Mr Costello [Australian Treasurer Peter Costello} said. The world's biggest oil producers will be at the table, including the most important member of the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, Saudi Arabia. "We're going to have Saudi Arabia and Russia there, the big oil producers and the big consumers, the US and China, and this is our concrete global action on an issue which is totally connected to the hip pocket of every Australian family," Mr Costello said.

Flatliner – Is time working towards this goal? One has to wonder.

One still has to wonder if such a move would be economically viable. Could it be? We have seen that some oil states have come out and said that they structure contracts in a way that allows them to settle in the currency of their choice. Thus, as the world moves to settle more contracts in currencies other than dollars, those left selling their oil for dollars will find their profits dropping – if – the central bank goal of lowering the dollar price of gold works.

Can oil be loaned? Can oil be swapped? Can big traders take up short positions that they never close? Some have claimed similar behavior in the gold market.


TownCrier (1/4/07; 16:33:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 150724)
Digital gold and a flawed global order
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/bddfc502-9c30-11db-9c9b-0000779e2340,_i_rssPage=73adc504-2ffa-11da-ba9f-00000e2511c8.html
January 4 2007 (Financial Times) -- It is remarkable how the world's short history of floating exchange rates has affected popular thinking about what is eternally normal and proper in the economic system. Recently, China-bashing US Senators Charles Schumer and Lindsey Graham wrote matter-of-factly that: "One of the fundamental tenets of free trade is that currencies should float."

Such a "tenet" would have been considered monstrous by most of the economics profession up until the last three decades of the 20th century, prior to which money accepted across borders had generally been gold, or claims on gold, for about 2,500 years. Even John Maynard Keynes, the arch-slayer of the last remnants of commodity money, was an adamant supporter of fixed exchange rates.

The rest of this article is for FT.com subscribers only...

^---(from url)---^

Probably just as well, as it did not look to be off to a very illuminating start, despite the very promising headline.

The further you get into your monetary studies the more you realize that the nature of money, strictly speaking, is not the problem as it is largely everywhere and always the same thing.

The thing that IS the problem, however, is people's misunderstandings of that very same nature of money. And again, here I am referring to money in the strictly proper sense, not loosely as a catch-all term for what passes as currency, savings, wealth, etc.

Like a dialect of a spoken language itself, once you wrap your mind around it and understand the nuances, it is easy to understand the fundamental and IMPORTANT differences between the conveyance of information (via the spoken sound "kold" and the written word "C-O-L-D") or even via a picture or drawing of an iceburg versus the tangible iceburgs of the world. The mere association between the tangible item and the related information "kold" <spoken> or "c-o-l-d" <written>, although vital and convenient, does not in any way, shape, or form result in putting our system of language on a "Cold" standard.

People inherently know that when they want ice in their scotch, it takes physical ice -- all the incantations in the world, even if you're promised a million "cold" on paper, is not quite the same thing. Nor is or was it ever meant to be.

Why, then, do so many people remain in a state of confustion regarding the system (informational language) of MONEY?

It's because some people of low character have found that they can benefit from fostering and maintaining the confusion of others. That, of course, is greatly facilitated by the general intellectual laziness of these others.

Be a light in the darkness. Choose physical gold as the consolidation (secure, tangible wealth/savings) of your monetary income, and help educate others that mere INFORMATION (such as MONEY) can change and become worthless in the blink of an eye, whereas gold, being TANGIBLE wealth, is more secure -- it maintains its integrity and validity through the passage of time and changing geopolitical climates.

R.

mikal (1/4/07; 16:26:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 150723)
Digital disorder?
https://registration.ft.com/registration/barrier?referer=&location=http%3A//www.ft.com/cms/s/bddfc502-9c30-11db-9c9b-0000779e2340,_i_rssPage=73adc504-2ffa-11da-ba9f-00000e2511c8.html
Digital Gold and a Flawed Global Order
By Benn Steil
Published: January 4 2007 21:44 | Last updated: January 4 2007 21:44

It is remarkable how the world's short history of floating exchange rates has affected popular thinking about what is eternally normal and proper in the economic system. Recently, China-bashing US Senators Charles Schumer and Lindsey Graham wrote matter-of-factly that: "One of the fundamental tenets of free trade is that currencies should float."

Such a "tenet" would have been considered monstrous by most of the economics profession up until the last three decades of the 20th century, prior to which money accepted across borders had generally been gold, or claims on gold, for about 2,500 years. Even John Maynard Keynes, the arch-slayer of the last remnants of commodity money, was an adamant supporter of fixed exchange rates.

The rest of this article is for FT.com subscribers only

USAGOLD Daily Market Report (1/4/07; 15:39:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 150722)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

THURSDAY Market Excerpts

January 4 (DowJones) -- February gold futures contracts Thursday fell $3.60 to $626.20 on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"It's fairly obvious why gold is down," said Dan Vaught, futures analyst with A.G. Edwards. "You're seeing the same thing you saw (during a gold sell-off) yesterday - a strong U.S. dollar and weak crude-oil markets."

As the gold pit was closing, the euro had fallen to $1.3094 from $1.3171 late Wednesday, and the Nybot U.S. dollar index was up 39 ticks to 84.31.

February crude oil was down $2.37 to $55.95 a barrel.

"With oil coming off, gold attempted a five-month uptrend line," said Paul McLeod, vice president for precious metals at Commerzbank. "It could test for a couple of days, just to make sure the support is solid there."

The Comex futures were slightly above this just ahead of the pit close, said McLeod.

"We're definitely testing the bottom part of the up channel," he said. "It tested it first yesterday, bounced back and closed a few dollars above. It tested it again today."

If this area continues to hold, it could help the market bounce next week, added McLeod.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Goldilox (1/4/07; 15:05:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 150721)
SSI
@ Federal_Reserves,

SSI is calculated based on what was paid in. Illegal, under-the-counter wages are not tracked for SSI, nor are they "credited" to "earnings".

If they're gonna withhold from earnings, it's only fair to give it back, as prescribed by the program. Otherwise, all non-citizens should get a pass on SSI withholding, whcih they DON'T.

I'm a lot more PO'd by spending SSI revenues to fatten Halliburton B&R in Iraq than sending payments to workers who earned them, no matter where they live.

mikal (1/4/07; 14:40:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 150720)
Another abandons good ship S.S. SorryState
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,2145,12215_pg_10,00.html
News | 04.01.2007 | 21:00
Bush's legal counsel resigns
US President George W Bush's top legal advisor has resigned. White House spokesman Tony Snow said Harriet Miers submitted a letter to Bush announcing her intention to leave the job at the end of the month. She has held the position for the past six years. Bush's nominated the 61-year-old Miers to the Supreme Court in 2005. Her nomination was withdrawn after members of his own Republican Party raised questions about her conservative and judicial credentials.

mikal (1/4/07; 14:29:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 150719)
FOMC UPdate
http://www.ny.frb.org/markets/omo/dmm/temp.cfm
Federal Reserve Bank of NY - Temporary Open Market Operations - January 4, 2006: REPOs nearly $24Billion

Usul (1/4/07; 14:03:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 150718)
Federal Reserves,
What date is that article? It says "Updated 11/03" at the bottom.

Federal_Reserves (1/4/07; 12:51:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 150717)
Democracy in Action
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters3acf
With Social Security facing projections of insolvency, a Bush Administration plan would hasten that crisis by sending hundreds of millions of dollars in Social Security payments to Mexican citizens living in Mexico—including those who have worked illegally in the United States.

Under current law, an alien who worked illegally in the U.S. can only become eligible for Social Security benefits by becoming a legal U.S. resident. But officials at the State Department and Social Security Administration (SSA) are preparing a plan that would pay benefits to illegal aliens who have returned to Mexico.

The Bush Administration is negotiating an agreement with Mexico that Mexico has been seeking since the first such agreements were concluded more than twenty years ago. It would gain greater U.S. Social Security benefits for Mexicans who have worked in the United States, including those who worked illegally, and for their family members.[2] The agreement has not been signed yet, but the idea has already raised a firestorm of concern that may forestall it. If it were signed, it would be submitted to Congress, which would then have 60 days for either house to reject it, or it automatically would go into effect as an executive agreement.

>> Nobody who is a US citizen would support this.
>> And look at how it is voted in - with no vote.
>> What kind of snakes do we have in our government?
>> Outrageous!





Flatliner (1/4/07; 12:05:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 150716)
First gold bank would tune local market to global trade
http://www.thanhniennews.com/business/?catid=2&newsid=23841
Snip:
The Vietnam Gold Trading Association has proposed the central bank set up a gold bank, a crucial step to keep the country's gold market in tune with the international bullion business.
...
The association also proposed the central bank permit gold to be traded as a financial instrument rather than a precious metal.


Flatliner (1/4/07; 11:06:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 150715)
@Knallgold
You state "They are clearly trying to kill the whole commodity sector." Yet, from your link we read "The ETFs will use commodity futures positions and will also generate yield on the cash and Treasury bonds they use as collateral, the companies said Thursday." To me, this means that they will not ‘own’ the commodities, but rather ‘own’ the derivative of the commodities.

Until the world understands the difference between derivatives and physical possession, let the games continue!


Flatliner (1/4/07; 11:01:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 150714)
out with the old, in with the ...
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/harriet-miers-resigns-white-house/story.aspx?guid=%7B0C0FF573%2DD1C1%2D4DC7%2D9989%2DAFEEDA0571DB%7D&dist=MorePulse
SNIP:
By Gabriel Madway
Last Update: 12:50 PM ET Jan 4, 2007

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Harriet Miers on Thursday submitted her resignation as White House counsel, according to media reports. The White House said Miers' resignation takes effect Jan. 31, and a search for her successor is under way, the Associated Press reported. Bush nominated Miers in October of 2005 to replace retiring Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, but she met with resistance from conservatives who questioned her qualifications. The White House eventually withdrew the nomination. :END

Flatliner – We also see that Negroponte's changing jobs. A snip reads "Will it create more problems than it solves? That's the question Washington is pondering in the wake of a personnel whipsaw at the top of the Bush administration. As the nation faces growing concern about its Iraq policy and the need for clear intelligence to counter terrorist threats, Director of Intelligence John Negroponte will resign, U.S. officials have confirmed, to take an appointment as the No. 2 official at the State Dept and deputy to Condeleezza Rice." (Link http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1574029,00.html).

I wonder how many other changes we'll see in the next couple days?


Knallgold (1/4/07; 10:48:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 150713)
More commodity ETF's
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/deutsche-bank-powershares-launch-more/story.aspx?guid=%7B5476E034%2DD169%2D489B%2D846B%2DC2D29CBB94EF%7D
They are clearly trying to kill the whole commodity sector.
"We are returning to balance",well,it seems the banks don't listen.

Anyone think a blow off in derivatives can only end in a derivative melt down?No controlled burn scenario on the agenda it seems.

Flatliner (1/4/07; 10:13:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 150712)
@World Court news ?
If others can verify information, those of us in the forum should be able to also. Unfortunately, the only link that I can find to the "World Court" is: http://www.icj-cij.org/. Through this site, I cannot find any access to records of any type other than a few press releases. Also, I only visited the English side of the site so I'm not sure if the other side is a mirror or not (it looks like it).

There is another report at: http://www.vinesbranch.com/view/?pageID=293187. Which states: "I found proof of what you are writing in the records of the World Court. It was listed under criminal investigations and police reports. I typed in Henry Paulson, using no titles, and listed NY as his home. Search of Jan 3rd, came up with Henry M. Paulson; there were two arrests listings." Again, unfortunately I could not find where the information is listed. I have email out to the author of this website in order to validate this claim.

Mikal, is there a reference link, or trail of links, that will lead to verification from Rumormillnews?


mikal (1/4/07; 09:46:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 150711)
World Court news
A reader at rumormillnews has reported at their forum, they have found confirmation of H.P.'s arrest at the web site of the World Criminal Court aka World Court aka (UN or United Nations) International Court of Justice, for what it's worth.

Survivor (1/4/07; 09:34:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 150710)
Could It Be?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/04/fallen.object.ap/index.html

Gold nuggets falling from the sky above :)

- S

Cometose (1/4/07; 09:33:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 150709)
Slingshot
Who needs tar and feathers; SEE Dick Cheney /hunting /SHOT GUN. SEE DICK SHOOT. Make them all go hunting together. Maybe , they should all suit up and be deployed to IRAQ with substandard gear ( spelled VESTS) and substandard hummers. THEY all agreed that we should be there, maybe they should put their FLESH WHERE THERE MOUTH IS . PRESIDENT BUSH can LEAD THEM INTO BATTLE. and we can make his PAPPY come out of retirement and let him give the ground troops(congress and fed bankers) air support. He Can use a CARLYLE LEAR JET to drop DEPLETED URANIUM bombs on the IRAQUI men women and children . THE jet can have a caption on the side that says :" YOU CAN'T CATCH ME , I'm TOO SLICK FOR YOU Earthling FODDER UNITS "

slingshot (1/4/07; 08:53:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 150707)
Cometose
Got Tar and Feathers?
Slingshot--------<>

Lackluster (1/4/07; 08:52:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 150706)
@ P. Avalanche
I really know nothing about that case, it may even be fiction. As I said, I read that at another site, and cut and pasted it here. Searching the web for information on it turned up nothing. Even if fictitous, it provides some food for thought. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Cometose (1/4/07; 08:39:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 150705)
cabal
I've been pondering off shore Caribean trading partners of the Fed ....

I've been pondering the Fed policy to repeal reporting of
M3

I've been pondering a Derivitive Bubble that keeps looming and growing larger and larger......

in the context of a WORLD GONE CRAZY where people of authority and position have been given charge over RACKING MANIPULATIONS in MARKETS at the WHIM OF WHO .....


Who was it that said Mayer Rothschild ......I don't care who runs a country (political power) .....Let me have control of the money...
{(perhaps indicated here is the fact if you control the money , you can control enough politicos to get your coveted prize; Money is power) See Bush Re: WANTA See BUSH RE: GOLD backed bonds issued by SECURITIES firm at WTC based on STOLEN TRUST DOCUMENTS which were DUE 9/12/2001 See BUSH RE: STOLEN GOLD CIA ACCOUNTS SOUTH AMERICA ...See missing Gold WTC BASEMENT}

HE was a banker and what he referred to may be witnessed now in it's farthest reaches ...of out of control, insanity.

For the purpose of protecting the STATUS QUO riding on top of ALMIGHTY DOLLAR........

THE STATUE OF LIBERTY IS TARNISHED by physical weathering

THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR IS TARNISHED by the men who are SMEARING THE LEGACY THE USA IS and the FLAG in the DIRT of their VILE CORRUPTIONS... to pursue the prizes of their GREED LUST AND POWER....

THe laws of physics are being applied to the markets using paper printing power as a lever to affect measures of counterbalance.

Since the practices being used are in VIOLATION OF standards of ECONOMIC TRUTH ...a payment will be made ......

I can only assume that all of these things are a part of a PLAN .....

Its a plan that doesn't require fiscal restraint on the part of politicians ....
It's a plan that doesn't require fiscal restraint on the part of bankers......... ( who both seem to be engaged in an experiment perhaps based on some merit derivitive to some PAPER and academician wrote on NEW WORLD ORDER GLOBAL CONTROL and MANAGEMENT MANIPULATION ETC)

It's a plan one might refer to as APPLIED CHAOS THEORY.

It looks like from contemporary standpoint that these policies are pursued to preserve the status quo as long as possible .....Those acquainted with cycles believe that these management techniques necessarily end in corrections......as EXTREMES REVERT...

If the goal is to feign attempting to manage and control to preserve the status quo ....the actual end goal must be a bust ........WHy would they do that .....because the BANKERS CLEAN UP on those that they duped afterward....Engineering such a feat over the course of 15 years ...is very subtle and makes their purposes and means undetectable....

THe rest of the world watches and laughs . I think it would be sad if the rest of the world decided that they had to teach AMERICAN BANKERS AND POLITICIANS a Lesson
when we AMERICANS SHOULD CLEAN OUR OWN HOUSE.

GET RID OF BRIBERY (aka LOBBYING ) in washington and you won't have a bunch of whores running our country ....who will bend the constitution for whatever whim BUSH has up his SLEEVE. THEY'VE BENT MANY THINGS.... In 1st Samuel 8: 3 That Samuel when he was old appointed his sons Joel and Abiah judges in Israel " And his sons walked not in his ways , but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment"

That's what the practice of lobbying does " IT PERVERTS JUDGMENT "

It also attracts WHORES TO GO to TAKE in WASHINGTON ...anything that they can get for SELLING SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY...

THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. It produces sons of belial who now run your country
in networks. Networks of Pigs at the PIGS TROUGH and they are all getting greased down ....

The politicians and the bankers didn't get the message when they were told in NOVEMBER to get out of IRAQ....

THEY are the same arrogant terds they were before.....

Sometimes , when you do things in a WORLD that you believe is CENTRIC to you , you get the ire of the rest of the GLOBE . They say they are going to diversify out of dollars in RESERVES......that will not solve our problem,
if we don't get rid of the bankers and the politicians that are the cause of our unsound currency ..

LET YOUR NEW YEARS RESOLUTION BE THIS : SEND them a message ...................CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE by sending the bankers and politicians (who are ravaging the currency ) a message ( ultimately to preserve your future and your assets you have no choice)

BUY ALL THE SILVER OFF THE SHELF.


Paper Avalanche (1/4/07; 08:16:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 150704)
@ Lackluster
Is this is a 9th circuit federal case in federal district court or is it being heard by an administrative judge for a federal agency?

Thanks!
PA

tejbear (1/4/07; 08:04:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 150703)
Gold at $2,000
I, for one, enjoy Bob Chapman's musings. For the most part; I feel this guy is spot on. When he suggests that gold could explode to $2,000, I believe him. Let's face it; the constant manipulation of the precious metals markets by the central banks is obvious to those who monitor the markets closely. Just look at yesterday. Shortly after the NY trading opened, gold and silver dropped dramatically, and the value of the dollar increased. Score another one for the Central Banks.

But even with their constant manipulation, despite ups and downs, both gold and silver have increased nicely over the last year. This increase in value is a reflection of the "loss of control" by the central bankers. With more and more people and countries expressing dissatisfaction with the dollar, the future of the dollars is dim. We are approaching the end of this game and Charles Ponzi would be proud. The numbers of people who will lose their assets/savings in this game are in the billions. Like any Ponzi game, there are a number of loose ends or "dominos", i.e., derivatives, baby boomers, oil, global warming, shift in power to Asia, terrorists, etc. Does anyone who reads this forum believe that the dollar index will be above 85 in ten years? Five years? One year?

The Mogambo Guru believes that if we have an "uncontrolled collapse", the event will be over in one month. Think of the chaos that would soon follow… Is this scenario possible: yes? Probable, given current vacuum in the US leadership, I believe it is possible.

On the other hand, the Central Banks of the various governments "may" effectively control a slow reduction in the value of the dollar, avoiding tipping over dominos, and resulting in the US eventually having a lower standard of living.

It could go either way.

I tend to be prepared. I have spare tires for my cars. I have life insurance in order to take care of my wife and kids incase of an early end of my life. I avoid that "bad" parts of town in LA. I minimize my drinking and driving. My point here is that if you aren't ready for the possible "uncontrolled collapse", and if it happens, you will be "shit out of luck".

Since the Central Banks current game plan is unsustainable, I have followed George Soros advice and I have bet against it. As a result, the last 12 months have been very profitable. If the dominos start to fall "hard", those who concur with Bob Chapman will be happy to have gold, silver, FOOD & guns to protect to it. Although I am hoping for the best, either way, I will be ready.

The Bear


Thoreauly (1/4/07; 07:17:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 150702)
@ Lackluster re: the FRN vs. the constitutional dollar

You're probably right, of course, in the same way that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason. That is, the government realized that it couldn't argue against the very principle upon which the nation was founded -- the right of secession -- never mind that generations of Americans have since been brainwashed into believing that ours is now and "indivisible" nation.

And so with the constitutional dollar, as the 1792 Coinage Act remains the law of the land, no matter what the powers that be might argue to the contrary.

968 (1/4/07; 07:05:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 150701)
4 January 2007 - Consolidated financial statement of the Eurosystem as at 29 December 2006
http://www.ecb.int/press/pr/wfs/2007/html/fs070104.en.html
In the week ending 29 December 2006, the increase of EUR 2.8 billion in gold and gold receivables (asset item 1) mainly reflected quarterly revaluation adjustments. Other movements during the week resulted in a net increase of EUR 36 million. This was due mainly to the refining by a Eurosystem central bank of its holdings of gold coin with lower fine gold content into fine gold bullion, which resulted in an accounting movement between this asset item and other assets (asset item 9). This accounting movement more than offset the selling of the equivalent of EUR 19 million of gold by another Eurosystem central bank (consistent with the Central Bank Gold Agreement of 27 September 2004).

The net position of the Eurosystem in foreign currency (asset items 2 and 3 minus liability items 7, 8 and 9) decreased by EUR 4.8 billion to EUR 147.4 billion owing mainly to the effects of the quarterly revaluation of assets and liabilities. Customer and portfolio transactions in the period under review resulted in a decrease of EUR 0.1 billion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope Towncrier is so kind to give us his thoughts on this statement.

Toolie (1/4/07; 06:47:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 150700)
Paulson under arrest?
Paulson was at Ford's services a couple days back, and will be on the Nightly Business Report tonight.

Of course it could be a shape shifting lizard filling his shoes.

Lackluster (1/4/07; 06:43:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 150699)
@thoreauly
I suspect such a case would never make it to the supreme court. They don't hear all the cases submitted to them, rather, don't they pick and choose?

Thoreauly (1/4/07; 06:28:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 150698)
@ Lackluster re: the FRN vs. the constitutional dollar
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/Greenspan.html

If the FRN vs. the constitutional dollar is ever argued in the Supreme Court, I'd have to bet that the court would find a way to rule on behalf of the former, as the welfare (and warfare) colossus of which the Supreme Court is very much a part rests entirely on the corruption of money that the FRN represents.

That is, the court would find a way to rule in favor of that which the Fed's previous chairman, before he sold out to the powers that be, argued so eloquently against (see link).

What fun it would be to follow the proceedings, however.



Goldilox (1/4/07; 06:24:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 150697)
SM Claims
@ Usul,

"But claims like Chapman's are no better than the claims of stock market shills writing books about the Dow going to 48,000 or 100,000."

Didn't we say the same thing in the 1980's about predictions of DOW 12000?

Given the "silent inflation", these guys are more right than wrong - only their timing is in error.

Lackluster (1/4/07; 06:09:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 150696)
Paying Wages w/Gold Coin
MK, your posts reminded me of something I read some time ago at another site:

-------------------------

The way the IRS looks at it, they will access the 'value' of the coin no matter what the 'face value' is.

It's called "Unequal Weights and Measures". It's the same if an employer paid you in 'silver coin' and you state you made only "$100.00 (in silver coin) for the week. The way the IRS looks at it, you really made 1500.00 FRN's and tax you on that amount. However, should you want to pay the tax in 'silver coin', they accept it only at 'face value' of $1.00. So, at a 25% tax bracket, they would tax you 375.00 FRN's. Bottom line, you make $100.00 in silver coin, you would need to pay $375.00 in silver coin for the tax.

There is a case here in Nevada, right now, that is dealing with this issue. A company paid their employees in $50.00 American Eagle Gold Coins. (To the tune of $120,000,000 worth!). Of course, the issue is "What is a dollar?"

I have spoken to the attorney who is handling this case and they will take this all the way to Supreme Court. Should they win, the implications are enormous! If you make 50,000.00 FRN's per year, if you got paid, instead, in 'silver coin' you would only be making $3,333.00 in equivalent 'silver coin'.

Would anyone need to pay taxes on $3,333.00? NO! Would you even have to file a 1040 on $3,333.00? NO!

This case is too detailed to go into here but I really want them to win. I don't believe there is anything on the internet about this case as yet. It is here in the Nevada US District Court. The case is United States vs. Alexander Loglia. Case No. CR-S-05-0121-RCJ-(RJJ).

I do have a copy of the case (sorry, I can't give it out) and it has quotes from Edwin Vieira, Jr. and others that point out the unequal 'weights and measures' issue. In other words, the Treasury Dept. is SUPPOSED to have "Equal Weights and Measures" with our monetary system. The FRN is NOT the definition of a "Dollar". In fact, neither the IRS, Treasury Dept, The Federal Reserve or the US Mint have any definition of a dollar! The only definition of a dollar is in the original Coin Act of 1792 which is a coin with 371.25 grains of silver.

If anyone has any questions on this case, I will be glad to answer them the best that I can.

http://forum.freestateproject.org/in...;topicseen#new



-----------------



I don't know if anything about this, just throwing it on the table.

Minero (1/4/07; 06:05:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 150695)
Wanta Case
http://www.patkiley.com
Last evening on their short wave radio broadcast, both Bob Chapman and Pat Kiley spoke of the Wanta case. They both claim that Sec. Paulson is under arrest in Germany, by order of a "World Court". They say that the story is only being poorly reported by the European media; however, they claim there is much discussion of the scandle on European talk radio.

Pat Kiley states that by noon today he will post complete details of his findings. Listening to his one hour broadcast, I didn't learn anything that I hadn't already read on the net.

MK (1/4/07; 05:57:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 150694)
Thanks, Usul
The Guardian article was the one I had read. There is still one other reference I came across in a general article on end of year bonuses which I haven't been able to find. I found this observation useful: "The Gold Napoleon scheme's removal will disappoint some City stars, who already face a decline in the real value of their bonuses, which are usually dollar-denominated, because of the US currency's slide in value against the pound." They should also be thinking about the erosion of the pound's purchasing power in these times.

Do you happen to know why they are paid in dollars instead of pounds?

By the way, congrats to the City which has found a way to strategically place itself as a financial hub between the continent, the Gulf and the United States -- a stroke of genius which will continue to pay dividends for years to come (and benefit the gold market).



Usul (1/4/07; 02:27:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 150693)
Is gold at $2000 yet?
http://randomroger.blogspot.com/2006/05/can-gold-go-to-8000.html
Bob Chapman says:

"The next two years will be absolutely giant for gold. You will make money you never dreamed of making. This is what betting parlance calls the lock - the-can't-lose bet."

I have been reading these types of claims for nearly a decade now. Gold should be regarded as a safe store of value and an insurance in case the fiat currency system goes haywire, as it did in Argentina; gold is no-one's obligation. If you hold gold, such as bullion coins purchased from USAGOLD, the value is right there in the metal and no-one can default on it. But claims like Chapman's are no better than the claims of stock market shills writing books about the Dow going to 48,000 or 100,000. If you bought gold 4 years ago, its dollar value is up 82%. There's a pretty good long-term trend in place, just as there is a long term shrinking of the value of fiat money. But if you bought gold on May 11, 2006, at $720.1, you'd still be underwater by 13%. A "can't lose bet?" If you were fortunate enough in picking stocks, you could recently have made 63.3% in Repros Therapeutics Inc. in one week, despite its being about 70% below its high of October 1997. But that is the reward part of the risk-reward combination. A 2000 study by the North American Securities Administrators Association, quoted in Forbes, found that 77 percent of day traders lose money - http://www.answers.com/topic/day-trading

James Turk is on record, in May 2006, as saying gold could hit $2000 in "six to twelve months" (See link).

If you bought gold on May 11, 2006, at $720.1 and read Turk, you might have thought you were on to a "can't lose bet". But at the end of May, 2006, gold was at $650.8. It's currently around $627. So in 7 months it's actually dropped, let alone hitting $2000. But we still have five months to go. If gold hits $2000 by the end of May I will be delighted.

Always do your own due diligence, and remember that you are ultimately responsible for your own investment decisons; people that highlight the advantages (or disadvantages) of particular investments may have a vested interest in them (or their contrary investments).


Topaz (1/4/07; 02:26:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 150692)
The third "leg"..
"Had manipulation been successful, do you think we would have $600 gold? I certainly do not." ...Nadler.

There appears to be, in all these "expert" commentaries, the universal opinion that the method of measuring itself is rock-solid.
If we look at weights and measures, the lengths the world goes to to standardise Lbs, Kilos, Pints, Litres, Gallons, Feet, Meters etc. are incredible.
Why are we, here in the 21st Century complacent enough to accept this whimsical notion of "value" as expressed in fluctuating Dollars, Euros, Yen etc.

It's quite clear to me that the very essence of measuring value via Fiat currency is dependent upon Gold price manipulation ...above ALL else ..full stop!

Usul (1/4/07; 01:04:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 150691)
French Napoleons
http://www.boodlehatfield.com/webfiles/Employment%20Law%20August%202006.pdf
"HMRC â€" CASHING IN!
This edition’s tax news relates to a recent case involving a scheme that attempted to avoid employer’s National Insurance Contributions on payments to the directors of a company. The bare bones of the scheme were that rather than bonuses, the directors received gold Napoleon coins..."

Usul (1/4/07; 01:03:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 150690)
French Napoleons
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1962454,00.html
"...the Treasury has won legal victories that prevent City firms paying bonuses in antique coins to their bankers and traders in order to reduce their VAT bills..."




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