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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/4/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Tannehill (05/04/01; 23:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 53081) Bullion dealer begs off? http://www2.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/newsArticles.asp?guid=%7B2109C81E%2DFE05%2D48FF%2D837A%2D0B1AB3B820D3%7D& Sorry if this has already been posted, but more stories like this one and gold may get some where. NewsFinder MARKETWATCH NEWS NEWS SERVICES COMPANY RELEASES NEWS SEARCH NY gold pops to 7-week high on early fund buying5/3/2001 10:06:00 AM NEW YORK, May 3 (Reuters) - Speculators bid COMEX gold up to a seven-week high early Thursday, stretching the top of its recent range and offering the first whiff of excitement in a week muffled by overseas holidays.After opening near flat, June gold <0#GC:> at 0925 EDT was up $1.50 at $267.30 an ounce, trading from $265.50 to $267.60, the highest price since March 14.That broke targeted resistance at $266.00/50 and nudged the contract above the $267.50 high from April 27."We're seeing fund buying," said a bullion dealer, who then begged off.*****************Opps, didn't mean to let the cat out of the bag.That's all from Tannehill JMB (05/04/01; 22:59:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 53080) PH in LA The "purpose of their efforts" is to promote the sale of gold bullion. A great idea, don't you think? Chris Powell (05/04/01; 21:07:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 53079) A preview of the GATA African Gold Summit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/747 New GATA dispatch by Adam Hamilton.The Durban conference is next week.To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email and get them immediately so you don't have to go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Netking (05/04/01; 20:39:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 53078) @Solomon Weaver http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/morgan042801.html Good to see you back..."Silver Bull" & have a read of the Morgan link above if you haven't already. ET (05/04/01; 20:05:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 53077) PH Hey PH - always good to read your stuff! You write in part;"At the same time, I cannot rid myself of thenagging suspicion that there is some purpose behind their efforts beyond a mere desire for a dissemination ofinformation. I mean, why else would he/they maintain such an effort over such a long period of time? And withsuch unvarying persistance?"Well PH, if I were to guess, I would say they support the view that the euro should be the next fiat scheme. Simple as that. They're advocating the continuation of fiat as we know it, just a different version. lamprey_65 (05/04/01; 19:54:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 53076) Gold Weekly Gold closed up over $2.00 on COMEX this week. I don't expect much next week...should probably even get a pullback as COMEX expiration occurs on Friday and BOE auction is on the 15th(?).I do believe, however, that the week after next could be explosive as the auction will be out of the way and Greenspan will probably lower rates once again on the 15th. The dollar may fall off that cliff very soon. auspec (05/04/01; 19:44:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 53075) Belgian #53056 Tree #53048 Thoughts Sir Belgian! That was quite a list of questions, even I was impressed. Here's your answers: Yes X 14, No X 11, maybe X 5, no idea X 22. Just kidding. The only people who can answer ALL those questions don't or won't {completely} post here, but isn't it fascinating that some individuals surely know the answers totally. Maybe if we persist long enough THEY will have pity upon us and just TELL ALL? In the mean time, since my posting priveleges are currently intact, I will continue this thread of thought/questions. When you advance far enough on this Forum, ala Aristotle or Oro, they 'boing' you out of here to a higher level, leaving few to answer everyone else's questions. It's a bit like Ground Hog Day where we are all subject to the same endless/unanswerable questions until asomeone finally gets it right. You and BB are a couple of 'nettectives' about ready to graduate, I believe.Anyway, with that drivel out of the way, we can now get down to some serious discussion, no? Per your post: "Can a ME oil-giant, convert, oil-dollars into physical gold? Is there enough gold available to do this freely and totally unnoticed? Have the Rothschilds as oil/gold traders, taken the necessary arrangements, to prevent gold from trading freely?" END. Imho: No, they cannot convert oil to gold across the board, no way. Doesn't work mathematically. But they can get sufficient gold to satisfy themselves that the deal is at least somewhat fair. Throw in some 'favors', political or military, above or under the table, and the relationship continues to work. The 'Anglo' {English} aligned countries get a flow of cheap oil to undergird their economies, and the ME gets lasting value in return for their diminishing resource. "Have the Rothschilds....?"Answer, an emphatic yes. The LBMA tells the story clearly.As far as the GP {gold producers} are concerned; they have to be divided into different camps. Let's stick Anglo{English}gold together with Barrick just for the fun of it, no? As ANOTHER stated "Indeed, a line is most certainly drawn between Washington/NY, London, South Africa and the Middle East...." So we see the ME as having oil and the others as having gold or gold access. The London and US connection is obvious now as we have all seen it play out over the recent years. Does it center/originate in London? What will happen if Britain goes EU? Do the same folks run much of US and London's 'sphere'? What is the South African connection? History shows the undeniable links of London and South Africa, right? Who owns the Federal Reserve, the BoE, S.A. Fed? Who owns Barrick, Anglo{English}gold? My, it starts to smack of a bit of 'inbreeding', no?So, other than the connected/owned gold producers the rest of them are mere sheep, blindly following their shepherds. If they get big enough, like maybe Franco Nevada, they will be invited to join in the games, or otherwise prepare for battle. The top % of any field or country gets invitations to join the elite. Ask Ted Turner for example. If you can get big enough you can play.The smaller gold companies are trying to survive at this point. They are in no position to make any type of statement as to gold being money, as they know the consequences. They are simply trying to find enough product, regardless of what people call it; commodity or money. If they find enough of it they can paper-cash in.Tree in the Forest--- You would think there would be a huge outrage over CB loss of gold, right? I'm not so sure it actually would happen because the masses have been so successfully dumbed down. With the potential sale of IMF gold it took a very unlikely coalition of Congressmen to defeat this idea. It was quite the setup, and the IMF is likely pulling an end around anyway. By the way, who runs the IMF? More rhetorical questions. The US public knows practically NOTHING about gold as they have been thoroughly 'fiatized'. They would read about it and focus for a couple hours or days and move on to the next event/distraction. It would take another unlikely coalition to make it an important issue. We are very late in these games!The oil and gold trade comes to an end when the CBs are no longer willing to sacrifice remaining gold. The WA countries are basically there already/almost. It is the particular country's gold as it actually doesn't belong to the CBs, but that doesn't seem to concern them. Let's play 'follow the money': The public/CB gold gets sold down or rearranged. Some of it leaves public coffers and ends up in private hands like the BBs. The mining company scavange hunt allows favored and elitist owned companies to pick the bones of their less favored brethren. You lose some gold in someone else's hand and gain some gold {in the ground} in your own hand. In the meantime your milk cow {various Anglo economies- US Canada Aus NZ UK} continue to provide various opportunities for common theft through other means.Per Tree # 53048:1. They shear the common people of their gold dreams.2. Then they go after the smaller miners.3. Then the smaller nations.4. Then various national treasuries are compromised."And all of this to support a bankrupt nation in receivership." Exactamundo Sir Tree! If you can make the US Constitution an archaic document in the process, so much the better. Think GLOBAL, as do our leaders!here's an unanswered question. When London/Britain finally decides to go Euro will that be the coup de grace???? They are now currently aligned against the EU in their gold maneuvering, but for how long?? clearly the US cannot stand alone w/o British sphere of influence. As FOA said {roughly}- at some point they cannot afford to continue to support a decaying structure.Per ANOTHER: "Now the CBs will have to sell 1/3 to 1/2 of their gold just to cover what's out there." Are we there yet? I think we're pretty close. Cheap gas and wonderful economies in the developed world were great, no? Good thing we knew the game underfoot and took advantage of the yellow bargain presented, no? What else will be left?auspec Hill Billy Mitchell (05/04/01; 19:10:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 53074) Lady Leigh Will try to post A. W. Pink as per your request on Sunday.Very respectfully,HBM Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:56:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 53073) World Gold Council Report - Hedging is Beneficial http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B242256A4200523CF4?OpenDocument Snippit:JOHANNESBURG – The role played by the derivatives market in influencing the price of gold has been exaggerated, according to a report issued by the World Gold Council in association with the London School of Business. Another finding of the report, titled "Gold Derivatives: The Market Impact", is that the use of derivatives is in decline, a condition which should reverse any affects these financial instruments had on the gold market. The author of the report, Professor Anthony Neuberger, says gold derivatives – known commonly as hedging – have been beneficial to gold producers, fabricators and central banks.Black Blade: Yeah, right. ET (05/04/01; 18:55:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 53072) Belgian Hey Belgian - thanks for your thoughts. I always enjoy your posts. You write in part;"And is "not enough gold" the reason why it is not freely tradable?"Not enough gold "at this price". Plenty of gold to go around at some price. "That" is the reason gold is not freely traded, at least as far as we can tell. I have this idea that gold is actually freely traded amongst some entities, we're just not privy to the "price". I do think, however, that we're getting closer everyday to that particular price discovery. Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:49:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 53071) Dummy's Guide To Hedging The Gold Market http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B242256A420047E005?OpenDocument Snippit:At risk of oversimplification, hedging is essentially a lien on gold yet to be mined. Typically, a producer borrows gold for immediate sale, using the cash to fund its activities or to arbitrage interest rates. Also, the funds raised are off balance sheet, which makes firms appear more valuable than they might otherwise be. Black Blade: This much like those who take a loan against there home for 125% value (essentially a forward sale). There's risk associated of course. One could lose their home if the economy turns against them. It is really no different with the forward sales of gold. The mine could be lost and acquired by the counter-party. Game over and check mate! Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:41:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 53070) Platinum Rises to Two-Week High as Users Switch From Palladium http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=finer99_auto.ht&s=AOvJ5jhZLUGxhdGlu Snippit:London, May 4 (Bloomberg) -- Platinum rose to a two-week high while palladium changed little, in a further sign that carmakers are switching back to platinum as a raw material for pollution control devices.Black Blade: Also most speculators in Palladium were washed out when the TOCOM and NYMEX defaulted (actually changed the rules of the game - same thing really). It is a matter of "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." This see-saw action could see Platinum go higher as Palladium drops. It should also be noted that auto sales are falling fast as the economy goes into the dumpster. Both PGM metals could tumble for a while. Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:31:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 53069) Oil refineries want protection from blackouts http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/krcontracosta/20010504/lo/oil_refineries_want_protection_from_blackouts_1.html Snippit:California lawmakers are acting to keep the electricity crisis from fueling a gasoline crisis as well. A move is gaining momentum in the Legislature to protect oil refineries from rolling power blackouts that could disrupt production and send gasoline supplies plummeting and prices soaring. Gasoline prices seasonally edge upward in the summer, the prime season for motorists. But oil companies say California risks far more severe price spikes if power outages cripple refineries and key pipelines.Black Blade: A vicious cycle! Refinery utilization rates are at either 95.8% according to the API, or 98.8% according to the EIA. Either way, refining capacity is nearly maxed out. Any disruption during this critical period of refining reformulated fuels will cause fuel prices to sky-rocket. Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:22:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 53068) California's Power Shortage Could Threaten New Homebuilding Projects http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010504/0091.html Snippit:LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 4, 2001--A growing shortage of electric power and soaring energy costs could force California builders to postpone or kill some new housing projects -- a problem that would further aggravate the state's severe housing shortage.Black Blade: Can you say "Higher Rents." This will hit the lower and middle classes the hardest in the pocketbook and with them goes the economy. Black Blade (05/04/01; 18:15:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 53067) Bush and the California 'Energy Crisis': Too Little, Too Late http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010504/dcf029.html Snippit:With Dick Cheney leaking out details of the Bush Administration's misguided energy policy this week, Californians -- the people at the center of what the Administration calls the ``energy crisis'' -- can'thelp but wonder: where's the leadership? ``George W. Bush said 'drop dead' to Californians long ago as payback for voting for Al Gore in the last election,'' said Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Terry McAuliffe. ``Now he realizes that allowing his Big Oil buddies to do whatever they want to our environment won't win him any more votes there, either. So what does Bush do? He ignoresCalifornia, and hopes nobody notices.''Black Blade: Geeezzz, here it is. The blame falling on Bush for 12 years of inactivity and lack of preparation on California's part. Of course why should Bush care about California, he won't ever get their vote. Clinton did the same to the Western states as he stripped land away from the people as punishment. Case in point - Escalante Staircase NP, among others. Escalante Staircase is a forbidding desert with the World's largest known deposit of low-sulfur coal. And Clinton? Remember in Utah he came in third behind Bush and Perot in 1992, and again behind Dole and Perot in 1996. It's called "What goes around, comes around." Black Blade (05/04/01; 17:58:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 53066) Gephardt calls Calif. power crisis national issue http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010504/n04411681_2.html Snippit:``People all over the West are being hit by higher prices. What hits in the West will hit in the Midwest, will hit in the Northeast. This is America's problem, not just California's problem,'' Gephardt told a crowd of 750 activists. Earlier Friday, U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said California should not expect much more than federal energy conservation programs to help the state survive a chronic electricity shortage which has triggered sky-high prices. Abraham said the state must buckle down and build more power plants and should not expect help in the form of federal caps on spiraling wholesale power prices.Black Blade: Even the Dems have made a 180 degree turn around on the energy crisis issue. Obviously Gephardt is testing the waters for a run at the presidency next time around. Bush will likely take the heat for a crisis that was years in the making. However, Gephardt has it right, this energy crisis will spread because many of the miss-steps in California were repeated elsewhere. This summer could be a crucial test. Black Blade (05/04/01; 17:48:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 53065) Energy Could Be U.S. Economic Rebound Spoiler-Fed http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010504/business_economy_fed_dc_86.html Snippit:RICHMOND, Va. (Reuters) - A sharp increase in energy prices could be the party pooper for a turnaround in the U.S. economy, two Federal Reserve officials said on Friday. In separate appearances, Richmond Fed President Alfred Broaddus and Chicago Fed President Michael Moskow cited increasing costs for gasoline, natural gas and electricity as potential spoilers for the U.S. economy as it tries to climb out of the doldrums.Black Blade: More sleepers awaken. We can count on it. Hey - Just trot out Abby Jo for a good ol' pump and dump. Black Blade (05/04/01; 17:43:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 53064) 50 reasons gasoline isn't cheaper http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/05/04/fp1s3-csm.shtml As big driving season dawns, refiners must make as many blends of as there are states. This Balkanization of the gasoline market - there are literally 50 different blends used in the country - is a major reason prices might approach $2.00 per gallon in some areas this summer. In fact, now that the summer driving season is near, boosting demand in an era of tight supplies, the nation's refiners face daunting challenges - and criticism from all sides. They find themselves blamed for shortages, and for air pollution.Black Blade: And it won't get better either as more regulations and standards are about to be implemented and more are about to be put on the books. This ties up several grades of fuel for some areas as the refiners will find themselves playing catch-up. Many refiners can't handle many variations of these proposed reformulated fuels. Look for higher fuel prices down the road.Also look for the cost of transporting goods to squeeze profit margins and passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Black Blade (05/04/01; 17:34:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 53063) New Yorkers fear summer power struggle http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,485398,00.html The heat is rising in the city, and some say New York is next for power blackouts Snippit:It's summer in the city of New York. After months of miserable weather, temperatures have been in the 80s all week and the latest reports suggests that this summer could be a scorcher. Energy analysts believe that America's largest city is the most likely to follow the example of California into a power crisis this summer. On paper at least, New York's antiquated, deregulated supply is going to find it tough to meet the increased demand of a rising population and high temperatures.Black Blade: Severe power outages could cause a lot of havoc on Wall Street as the records of many US corporations are stored electronically in NY. Trading sessions could be disrupted as well. California-style energy crisis is just now cropping up on the East coast. Meanwhile the situation looks to go critical in the Western states, especially if temperatures soar this summer. The Midwest could also experience some difficulty. auspec (05/04/01; 17:20:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 53062) PH in LA A program note/ msg # 53049 Thanks, PH, very interesting thoughts in regards to who "Big Trader" and the various "players" might be. A little intrique, no? From your message per ANOTHER:"Well a funny thing happened right after the Gulf War ended. What looked like big money before turned out to be little money as some HK people, I'll call them "Big Trader" for short, moved in and started buying all the notes and physical the market offered." ENDComment: Note the specific use of the words 'them' and 'people' in regards to "Big Trader". So ANOTHER could be a part of "Big Trader" but others {pleural} are also involved, right? I like to think these guys are connected with the EU and dissemination of its various merits as it unfolds, but have not personally followed their discourse from the beginning. You're right, we'll probably never know their identities, but we will surely know their prognosticating abilities! Yes, we all have some degree of motive for posting here, whether it be simple sharing of knowledge or whatever. I like to think we do what we do because we are who we are. Or are we who we are because we've done what we've done? Anyway we are all grateful for this esteemed place and the opportunity to LEARN as well as share.Any other ideas on who these "Big Trader" are?Aauspec Randy (@ The Tower) (05/04/01; 16:55:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 53061) Fundamentals rule in the end http://www.usagold.com/goldenchalkboard/gc_dow.html Today we received the most abysmal jobs report for March with the largest monthly loss of jobs in a decade, and as a result, the short-term Treasuries climb in value while the Dow climbs 150 and the Nasdaq rises 45.Common sense would say that this is a warning sign that the economy has truly lost its shine, so why are people plowing money into stocks? It would seem at first blush that the investors have forgotten the important lesson of the recent market mania (and subsequent Nasdaq selloff) that investments, particularly share ownership in corporations, must fundamentally be justified by the underlying business model and the corporation's performance within the larger economy. With jobs being lost and the economy slowing down, does this bode well for the future demand for and earnings on the corporations' products?Truly, all eyes are on the Fed, and the expected easing of monetary policy (lower interest rates) that might reasonably follow this bad news. If today's stock market performance is to be justified somehow on a fundamental basis rather than a resumption of the past mania (which it just might be), then we must call it a flight out of the dollar, albeit in an ill-advised direction that largely depends on the future purchasing power of the dollar and employment for its demand-side fundamentals among American consumers.With the down now again at nearly 11,000, just look at the link above to convince yourself if these levels are justified in our now slowing economy coupled with the eroding monetary fundamentals that have been documented here.The rise in short-term Treasury prices (prices move inversely to rates) seems to be the only fundamentally-justified action seen here, because these short-dated notes are most sensitive as a parallel to the FOMC-established target rates. Solomon Weaver (05/04/01; 16:46:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 53060) (No Subject) Here I am again, back on the forum talking about the poor man's gold.....Trail Guide....really love those walks on the trail...gold is like the mountain....silver is like a little lake in a shallow of the mountain....relflecting gold like a mirror.I can think of a few numbers that show how little silver is...but to the Knights and Ladies who have a few coins in their purse....???Worldwide production of Silver per year in the 1990s is approximately 500 million ounces. By $5 per ounce a mere $2.5 billion....and most of that was the cost of getting the silver out of the ground (almost no profits).....and since most silver is not primary, it appears on the books of a lot of mines as simply lowering the cash costs of mining lead, zinc and copper.Wolrdwide production of Oil per DAY of 70 million barrels and $35 comes out pretty darn close to $2.5 billion also.Both are commodities. Both are fairly "cheap", considering the value added they create when they "are used". Silver has been cheap these decades because there was a very large underground reserve in the USA (10 billion ounces)which could come into the market with little effort. Oil has been cheap these decades because there was a very large underground reserve in Saudi Arabia which could come into the market with little effort.What would happen if the money that moves through the oil market in one day would move through the silver market in one year??? I don't mean the paper markets...Poor old Solomon Solomon Weaver (05/04/01; 16:16:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 53059) Interview with Ted Butler http://www.investmentrarities.com/04-17-01.html http://www.investmentrarities.com/04-17-01.htmlTed's index seems to be gathering dust.....but here is a link of a recent interview.If you listen to James Cook in it...it almost seems like he is playing devil's advocate.Poor old Solomon Solomon Weaver (05/04/01; 16:12:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 53058) Investor sentiment and interest.....when it returns to AU and AG???? http://www.thebulliondesk.com/reports/prospector.htm Just an aside, I do find it interesting, and also incredibly annoying, that the precious metals have been so becalmed for so long. Today, many internet stocks were up 10 to 20% in the U.S. To look at the volatility of such equities and compare it to the precious metals is disconcerting for the long-term professionals in the marketplace. A $10 rally in gold, that takes 2 to 3 weeks is considered big time, while such moves occupy just hours in some sectors of the equities market. It is no wonder that, currently, with momentum investing the primary driving force of the markets that the metals are becalmed with very little investor interest.Poor old Solomon R Powell (05/04/01; 15:54:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 53057) Pour on some more credit POG and the XAU both ended the day down slightly. Rates were mixed with the short term up, longer term down so we end the week with a miserly half point. Interesting that the XAU went up at the open as fast as the Dow and Duck were going down. It certainly looked ominous early this morning with the Duck futures index locked limit down after the ugly employment numbers became public. Perhaps the Fed. can creat enough money to reinflate the bubble and keep debt service under control. Think so?? I'm still getting credit card offers and checks daily. At your limit? No problem, just cash the check for an automatic expansion of credit. No end in sight. Why do I bother to work?? Rich Belgian (05/04/01; 15:54:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 53056) Auspec and the Red Baron. Arab oilers (not spoilers), secretely fostering, their Gold-mistress. Us (detectives), desperately searching for evidence of their unfaithfullness towards their oil-spouses.Exciting isn't it ?Can a ME oil-giant, convert, oil-dollars into physical gold ? Is there enough gold available to do this freely and totally unnoticed ? Have the Rothshilds as oil/gold traders, taken the necessary arrangements, to prevent gold from, trading freely ?Official Goldholders(OGH) and a majority of (Big) private Goldinvestors (PGI), surely have many reasons, to agree with such a masterplan for future Re-Valuation of Gold. Of course, both for different reasons. OGH, keep the dollar-calf from changing into a golden calf and PGI, get plenty of time for additionnal accumulation at, you know what kind of prices. But, what interest do the goldproducers (GP) have in this masterplan ? What have they to gain, now or in the future with the Red Baron scenario ? They (GP) don't care about POO or Currency Depreciation ! Are you convinced they are too dum to see such a creative oil/gold - valuation play ? Are the GP, ignoring this for the altruistic benefit of maximum employment ? Why aren't GPs, providing the oilers with off record gold for POG's sake ?And in this way helping OPEC to manage the POO for faster world dominance. A low POO for an extended period of time is preventing, non OPECers from investing in exploration and become completely dependant on OPEC.SA-GP have converted gold for oil during the sanctions period.Are the Goldproducers the ones who have to carry the full burden of the two other gold identities (OGH+PGI) ?What do they get as a reward for being so flexible and cooperative ? Future dominance (the big five) through de-fragmentation ?(defaulting small miners)Anglogold (N° uno) latest statement, that CBs must be allowed to play the derivative game or otherwise risking to be confronted with outright massive goldsales...was instructive. Black Blade was so courageous to react on that statement (amusing). As if a POG at an 25 year LOW is the result of a constant derivative-appetite of central bankers with only 1/3 of aboveground gold and unknown proportion against remaining underground gold. The 3 goldplayers (OGH-PGI-GP), are not in synchronisation ? Goldproducers have much more future underground gold to defend. Or is the AU-statement giving evidence of the contrary ?And emphasising Randy's : freely convertible but not freely tradable aspect of Gold ? When having a close look at the POO-chart (30 years)...the least we can say is that it is a very un-natural pattern.I would like to compare it with the pricing chart of a coke bottle or cigaret or men's haircut over the past 30 years.These goods and services were surely freely tradable and not periodically capped for God know what purposes.These charts will perfectly reflect the permanent Depreciating currencies, worldwide. POO and POG (include dollar-index) have both that dramatic un-natural aspect. Is that suggesting their relationship ?Have politics already a long record of "creative" action on POO and POG ? And why are these lastest 6 years so different for both of them ? I can't find a constant inter-relation between these 2 world-rulers (gold/oil) for the full period of 30 years. Is this an indication that FAO is correct in his vision that we are on the eve of decisive Change (for gold and oil)?And why would Anglogold stubbornly continue to promote gold as a commodity only ? Are private goldholders encouraged to optimise their goldholdings with derivative hulabaloo ?Are we supposed to do the same thing with our homes or other tangible storages of wealth and certainty ?Why is AU, "suddenly" so eager to talk about hedging (through miningweb) and suggesting to reduce their hedging ? Is the recent figure of 10.000 tonnes - SHORT, starting to sink through and installing some unrest ?Isn't it remarqable that the 3 Big Goldplayers (OGH-PGH-GP) aren't saying anything that makes sense about gold...and that modest and humble individuals must come up with all kinds of gold-considerations ? Is that pathetic permanent global currency depreciation such a taboo for the main 2 gold philes (GP + PGH) ? And is "not enough gold" the reason why it is not freely tradable ?Sir Auspec, you know my questions are only rhetoric. You just keep on provoqing more and more "toughts", wich I welcome enthousiastically. Thanks ! Randy (@ The Tower) (05/04/01; 14:45:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 53055) Looking for the perfect graduation gift? http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html Look no further! Coins, pendants, moneyclips, tie tacks, and other gold coin accessories. Give Marie a call at the small order desk. Randy (@ The Tower) (05/04/01; 14:02:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 53054) *correction* Normally I ignore these inadvertent blunders unless it significantly changes the meaning.In msg# 53051 I posted, "Unlike the global monetary structure that was in place only 30 months,..."(etc)However, this is what was intended:"Unlike the global monetary structure that was in place only 30 months PRIOR,..." (etc) Netking (05/04/01; 13:59:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 53053) @Tannehill Mr Tannehill (53034)Many thanks for your info. Randy (@ The Tower) (05/04/01; 13:35:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 53052) Centennial maintains regular access to many forms of gold coins and bullion, but.... http://www.usagold.com/onlinestore/special.html ...these rare beauties are just passing through -- sorta like a traveling museum exhibit.Claim yours while the limited supplies last. (only 150 each)[They are moving briskly, and I've already got mine!] Randy (@ The Tower) (05/04/01; 13:22:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 53051) "A disturbingly sour attitude" among corporate executives: that's what is driving Fed monetary policy these days??? http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010504/n04443620.html According to this article,"Fed policymakers decided quick action was needed to change that mind-set before it could undermine a gradual pickup in economic growth expected later in the year......officials decided they could not wait until their next regularly scheduled meeting on May 15."-----------No matter how highly we've developed our intricate economy, at the root it largely rests upon the building blocks of confidence in the monetary unit.So, we see a frightening element revealed along this line of thinking. What we have seen here is that when failing confidence in the economy itself is threatening to collapse the upper levels of structure, the monetary authorities will naturally attempt to bolster that upper level of economic confidence.The big problem, however, is that they bolster this confidence in the economy at the ultimate expense of the deeper-level confidence in the monetary unit.Now consider this. Unlike the global monetary structure that was in place only 30 months, there is now a viable alternative (free market gold reserves and euros) and the world therefore no longer needs to cling to the dollar through good times and bad. Suddenly, in this new monetary era, there are now dire consequences to be faced against such compromising use of the dollar as we are seeing by the U.S. monetary authorities.Prepare yourself for the coming flood of small dollars with a lifeboat of physical gold. Mr Gresham (05/04/01; 11:54:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 53050) Henri Henri, I hear ya!(I been thinkin'I'll be clinkin'!)(Henri, besides your recent "fishing stories" via FOA, were you ever on a long canoe trip along the Canadian border in your youth?) PH in LA (05/04/01; 11:18:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 53049) WHO THEY ARE. (A program note) Auspec:"WOW!" Indeed!In your (msg#: 53011) it appears that it was Canuck? asking on 2/25/01, "who is 'Big Trader?'. As garbled as it has all become, with Another's penchant for mysterious and thought-provoking comments, I would answer that the poster "Big Trader" was almost certainly the same poster we later came to know as ANOTHER. Those with enough patience to wade around in the Kitco search engine on a day that it is working would be able to find the original posts from 1997. They began with cryptic postings from "Big Trader" which were soon supplanted by posts from "Another Writer". Soon again after that the poster dropped the "Writer" from his handle and from then on posted simply as "ANOTHER". The content and style of all the posts strongly suggest that they all came from the same individual, although he never (that I know of) admitted openly to that conclusion. There was later some confusion and commentary posted about how ANOTHER's writing style seemed to vary from one day to the next. ANOTHER himself alluded to the fact that his words were sometimes edited by "one from the West" who tried to bring a more colloquial tone and style to his message. Soon after that FOA appeared and either admitted (or was assumed) to have been he who had sometimes proofread and/or edited ANOTHER's posts. FOA now seems to write mostly for himself based loosely on the THOUGHTS of ANOTHER and supposedly on a still on-going personal association with ANOTHER. With all the different currents swirling around the threads that all these individuals have woven, one must at least wonder at times if they are not all the same person. My own feeling has always been that such a ruse would be exceedingly hard to pull off as well as this has been done. My hat would be off to anyone who could manage it so masterfully. At the same time, I cannot rid myself of the nagging suspision that there is some purpose behind their efforts beyond a mere desire for a dissemination of information. I mean, why else would he/they maintain such an effort over such a long period of time? And with such unvarying persistance? We'll probably never know! Tree in the Forest (05/04/01; 10:15:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 53048) auspec Thank you for that very important refresher course sir auspec! I recall reading those passages when first I came to lurk in these hallowed halls. But I was a kid then! It's been sooooo long! I stand corrected...again! So let's see if we can now summarize:1) First, they sheared the sheeple for gold by driving the price down and propagandizing them with the "worthless relic" routine.2) Then they raped the miners by forcing them to sell at or below production cost.3) Then when that wasn't enough, they strong armed smaller nations for gold.4) Then the "Old Lady of Threadneedle St." began publicly auctioning off gold. They probably did get value. It was probably stolen gold so $265/oz was a good deal.5) Finally, as this is still not enough, they have begun "selling" their own gold but I put selling in parentheses because it's just paper promises in exchange for physical and like the "custodial gold" at West Point, it will never actually be paid.And all of this to support a bankrupt nation in receivership.Does that about sum it up?Truly, La Cosa Nostra has nothing on the good old US of A!But let's step back a bit and look at a broader perspective. August 15, 1971. Nixon closes the gold window. The US is given 30 years to pay up. "Somebody" decides, hey no way we can or will pay this. Let's just live it up for thirty years and let the you know what hit the fan. 103 days and counting! agbull (05/04/01; 08:50:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 53047) Silver hits the mainstream Press http://www.herald-trib.com/xwelcome.cfm The Herald-Tribune will run a feature article on silver this Sunday May 6th. Use the link to read.. FredBear (5/4/01; 07:37:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 53046) Kudlow Kuotes "Fed needs action in the gold market" "1st qtr GDP was a phony rise" "May will be worse" slingshot (5/4/01; 07:12:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 53045) (No Subject) Three times to a posting error and I still do not know my mistake. slingshot (5/4/01; 07:12:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 53044) (No Subject) Three times to a posting error and I still do not know my mistake. Black Blade (5/4/01; 07:12:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 53043) USD Down Hard http://www.mrci.com/qpday.asp The USD is down hard. There are now calls for AG to hand out an emergency rate cut. These talking heads have gone into panic mode. Going to be "interesting times." slingshot (5/4/01; 06:57:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 53042) (No Subject) Did you know after 26 weeks they are not on the unemployment scale? Wonder howthat figures Slingshot Black Blade (5/4/01; 06:54:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 53041) April cruelest month in 10 years 223,000 lost jobs, unemployment rate rises to 4.5% http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=Economic+Report&siteid=mktw Snippit:WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) - The bottom fell out of the labor market in April. The economy lost 223,000 jobs in April while the unemployment rate soared to 4.5 percent, a 2 1/2-year high, the Labor Department said Friday. The job loss was the biggest in more than 10 years. The report blindsided economists, who expected a small gain of 21,000 jobs in April. Black Blade: Larry Kudlow is now talking "Recession." 180 degree about face. slingshot (5/4/01; 06:47:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 53040) (No Subject) Request permission to laugh. Black Blade (5/4/01; 06:44:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 53039) The Raw Data! 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL PAYROLLS -223,000 VS +21,000 FORECAST 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL JOBLESS RATE 4.5% VS. EXPECTED 4.4% 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL PAYROLLS DOWN 223,000 VS. EXPECTED 21,000 GAIN 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL JOBLESS RATE RISES TO 4.5%, MOST IN 2 1/2 YEARS 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL AVERAGE HOURLY EARNINGS +0.4% VS. EXPECTED +0.3% 8:30am 05/04/01 AVG WORKWEEK STEADY AT 34.3 HRS VS 34.2 HRS FORECAST 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL HOUSEHOLD SURVEY SHOWS 426,000 FEWER WORKERS 8:30am 05/04/01 APRIL FACTORY PAYROLLS -104K; SERVICE-PRODUCING -59KGold could get a boost as they run for cover. Black Blade (5/4/01; 06:38:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 53038) Rough day on Wall Street! Big surprise in the unemployment numbers! Unemployment at 4.5% (highest since Oct. 1998), wages up 0.4% (wage inflation). Lost jobs in all sectors except energy. Markets are in freefall. Larry Kudlow is off in a corner crying ;-) Today could be very "interesting." Now they are talking a large rate cut from the Fed. The talking heads on CNBC look shocked! slingshot (5/4/01; 06:18:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 53037) (No Subject) Topaz Helpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp Topaz, I Made a terrible mess. Somehing happen to my post in the weee hours and HE double- hockey sticks if I Can Figure it out. My post to Black Blade and Auspec Never appeared.I am concerned because in the heat of the moment I can sparkdialog that needs to come to the light. They are a sounding board which brings things to light. To Randy and MK I feel things are happening and I just can not get it out fast enough. Please be patient with court JESTER. Slingshot FredBear (5/4/01; 05:53:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 53036) NorthEast Republicans Set To Block Drilling In Alaska http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AOvIpjRZWTG9iYnlp Five Northeast Republicans in the Senate said they would oppose drilling in the refuge, making legislation vulnerable to a Democratic filibuster. ``There is a serious question of whether there are the votes,'' said Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens, an Alaska Republican who's been pushing the issue for years. ``We need to wait until the appropriate time. It could take years, it could be this year.'' The Bush administration, bowing to the congressional opposition, now touts other possible sites such as the Gulf of Mexico. (Olympia, Senator from Maine) Snowe said she thinks that ``sends the wrong message.'' ``Conservation is a vital approach and one not to be ignored,'' she said. `I think that they'll have to come to terms with reality.'' FB: Reality?Alaskans overwhelmingly favor drilling in the refuge, said Mark Myers, director of the state of Alaska's oil and gas division. This is in no small part because Alaska would receive 50 percent to 90 percent of the royalties. FB: It's too bad state's rights no longer exist. Americans just do not get the message. Henri (5/4/01; 05:37:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 53035) Victorias...Good Morning all Cabo Wabo woozyclink, clink, clink, clink Tannehill (5/4/01; 05:23:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 53034) Mint's Silver purchase -- Netking @#53014 NetkingYou wrote: "Can anybody confirm for me the actual amount of silver that will be purchased* by the US Mint on market towards the end of this year(?)for the next silver mint."Here is a link to the number of bullion coins minted by the US Mint since 1986. http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/q/bullion.htmSo, silver bullion is typically 5 to 6 million ounces a year, add in silver proof sets, commenrative silver coins, etc. you may be talking about 7 million ounces a year, just a drop in the bucket. The Mint will not be a major buying force in the market. Although they will have to buy silver when ever orders come in for more coins, they don't have to buy it all at one time. The Mint sells as many coins as are ordered by their favored dealers, which then sells them to the public. If they get the 2 million ounces back from Handy & Harmon and scrape the bottom of the barrel, they may still have 1 year of silver left.Where will the Mint get new silver you ask? Saw this over on Raging Bull Bulletin Board.Good news for some US silver company?????? US Code: Title 31, Sec. 5132. Administrative SUBTITLE IV - MONEY CHAPTER 51 - COINS AND CURRENCY SUBCHAPTER III - UNITED STATES MINT (D) The Secretary shall obtain silver for coins minted under this paragraph by purchase from stockpiles established under the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.). At such time as the silver stockpile is depleted, the Secretary shall obtain silver for such coins by purchase of silver mined from natural deposits in the United States or in a territory or possession of the United States not more than 1 year following the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for such silver. The Secretary may issue such regulations as may be necessary to carry out this subparagraph." Hope this answers your questionThat's all from Tannehill slingshot (5/4/01; 04:12:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 53033) Black Blade. Black Blade, Tonight has been one of those nights for me. Let me explain about statetic metal. a block of metal is just a block till the purpose for which that metal is inteneded for is manufactured/cut/ molded for a specific purpose. The composition of that metal may have negative or positive to the application in which it will be applied.Only the aplication of that material or part will prove to be acceptable upon installation into the parent component.Thank you Black Blade and Peter Asher. My post were lost but I wanted to give you both to think about.Slingshot Netking (5/4/01; 03:47:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 53032) Silver - The Herald - Tribune reports on Silver Herald Tribune reports on silver.New use for silver discovered by the Herald-Tribune when Interviewing Mr Morgan of Silver-Investor.com.This is one of the few main stream press articles to appear in quite some time...Don't miss it Feature Article on Silver in Newspaper. The HT interviewed David Morgan of Silver-Investor.com along with many others, including Ted Butler, Franklin Sanders and the Silver Institute. Articles on silver do not appear in the main stream press very often, so do not miss it.. It will be available on Sunday 6 May 2001.The following link should take you there on Sunday, http://www.newscoast.com/xwelcome.cfm enjoy!regards Netking Black Blade (5/4/01; 03:10:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 53031) U.S. coal shortage could spur summer brownouts http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010503/n27675175.html Snippit:NEW YORK, May 3 (Reuters) - Adding stress to an already frazzled power market, a nationwide coal shortage could spawn electricity brownouts in northeastern states and in the West this summer, experts said on Thursday. While coal provides the country with 51 percent of its power, years of industry underinvestment and record prices for competing fuels natural gas and fuel oil this year have pushed utilities' coal stocks to their lowest levels since 1974.Black Blade: We are now in the midst of an energy crisis that threatens the US economy with shortages of hydro-electric and natural gas fired power plants. Now we must contend with a coal shortage. The coal industry has to contend with numerous environmental restrictions even though we have an abundance of coal deposits. This article focuses on transportation and infrastructure. Slingshot - that certainly explains the $3000 titanium and $96000 per unit. If titanium wasn't mentioned I would have guessed something associated with temperature control. Cool! I wouldn't have guessed it. Take care. - BB slingshot (5/4/01; 02:50:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 53030) (No Subject) Black Blade And Peter Asher.My apoligies I have been havinga bad time getting to post on this forum. Well Black Blade, I had a Beautiful explanation before it got lost. NOW IN SHORT TERM I BUILD JET ENGINES FOR THE MOST SOPHISTICATED AIRCRAFT IN THE WORLD. $3000.00 is a drop in the pan. How about $ 96000.00 per unit. Rest assure you getyour moneies worthin the savings. I wish I was in the super conductor field Thank you Peter for your vote of cofidence.Slingshot Black Blade (5/4/01; 02:34:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 53029) Newmont Mining CEO says gold demand strong http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010503/n0325475.html Snippit:ENGLEWOOD, Colo., May 3 (Reuters) - Gold prices may be at 20-year lows, but Newmont Mining Corp. (NYSE:NEM) Chief Executive Officer Wayne Murdy, speaking to shareholders on Thursday, said he still sees reasons for optimism. ``Demand remains strong, production is falling and central bank selling and lending is expected to moderate in the future,'' Murdy told the company's annual meeting. Black Blade: Time to load up. slingshot (5/4/01; 02:33:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 53028) (No Subject) test Something wrong Black Blade (5/4/01; 02:26:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 53027) Gold Hedging Debate Still Furious http://library.northernlight.com/FD20010503310000138.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc Snippit:While hedging infused much-needed capital into the industry, it exaggerated an existing oversupply problem by adding ounces borrowed from central banks to newly mined supplies. You can't defeat a basic principle of economics " if you have more of something, you pay less for it. Making matters worse, an ancillary "paper" market in gold derivatives blossomed. Derivatives were intended to mitigate risk, but the lack of transparency in the market combined with an unspoken commitment by central banks to rescue firms that fall on their speculative swords " like Long Term Capital Management " has had the opposite effect. Black Blade: The debate continues. I avoid the producers that sell forward and only have positions in a couple of unhedged (or very lightly hedged) miners. It is not necessary to sell forward production to be profitable. BTW, Barrick's losses were -$1.93 per share this time around and they claim to be successful hedgers. Hmmm... Physical gold in hand is arguably better for portfolio insurance and a good diversifier. slingshot (5/4/01; 01:55:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 53026) fRUSTRATED hOPE TO GET TO YOU SOON tEST Randy (@ The Tower) (5/4/01; 01:40:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 53025) Gads, that wasn't very clear at all. You'd probably only know what I was implying if you could read my mind.What I meant was that if the bullion banks were supremely blessed in their ability to satisfy their host of depositors with deft reallocations of a small supply of physical, then the brief price rise I mentioned was to be taken as a brief ORDERLY rise. Orderly for a brief time, that is, prior to the inevitable precipitation of the dollar's collapse and the moonshot for physical gold as the derivative instruments (paper) are abandoned as no means to an end (other than a hard lesson in counterparty default). Randy (@ The Tower) (5/4/01; 01:29:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 53024) For those who missed the related article cited yesterday by MK quoting Mssrs. Hathaway and Edelson http://www.bday.co.za/bday/content/direct/1,3523,842168-6094-0,00.html Hathaway:"Since the Latin American crises of the early 1980s, the Federal Reserve's response to market difficulties has been to bale out anyone who has made a bad investment. Now the Fed's bale-out strategy has gone too far. No longer are the losers from bad investments confined to lenders to foreign countries, bankrupt hedge funds or bad banks. It is the US public, which has been suckered into pouring its life savings into a dangerously overvalued stock market." Edelson:"...a strong dollar does not mean lower gold prices. If the dollar continues to remain strong or get even stronger, it's a darn good sign there are big problems elsewhere in the world, problems that could easily light a fire under gold.""As for inflation, while I do believe it is coming on a worldwide basis as central banks try to reflate out of the trillions that have been lost in stocks, it too is not needed to get gold going."---------------You've sure got that right, Larry. It could very well happen in an order such that the physical gold liquidity dries up in the derivative-bloated bullion banking sector prior to the dollar collapsing under its own derivative-bloat as a reserve currency.IF (a very big "if") the bullion banking sector can play the shell game of their lives in the absence of a lender of last resort, then they may possibly engineer a smooth transition whereby the price of gold rises for a BRIEF while against a dollar with vitality remaining. However, the one condition aggravates the other like the movement of pebbles in a rockslide. When the illusion is broken it'll all come down swiftly in a heap in the final momments of reckoning, trees included.(Reply to Slingshot: I'd have to be 'alive' qualify as 'awake', wouldn't I? Feel free to call attention to those Queen Victoria gold Sovereigns while I catch some Z's, will ya? Just post the link and tell the group what a fine addition they'd make to the caches of King Sovereigns they must surely already have. Thanks!) Peter Asher (5/4/01; 01:13:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 53023) @ Slingshot re-riddle Are you reasearching super-conductor materials? Black Blade (5/4/01; 00:58:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 53022) Frustrations Turn To Despair In Shadow Of Energy Crisis http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/sddt/20010503/lo/frustrations_turn_to_despair_in_shadow_of_energy_crisis_1.html Snippit:Sixty-five percent of small business owners in San Diego are worried that electricity rate hikes could force them to close their doors this summer, according to a survey conducted by the San Diego Business Improvement District Council. Jimmy Sims, owner of Moveable Eats on Garnet Avenue, closed his restaurant's doors a week ago and is only taking catering jobs. After a year in operation, the business was growing fast but not fast enough to keep up with an energy bill that went from $800 to $2,200 per month.Black Blade: And we are told that inflation is benign. Food and energy is not calculated in the PPI and CPI core rates, and the dubious voodoo statistical trickery of "seasonality" filters just add to the cruel joke. Then there is also "hedonic" pricing. Mr. Sims could probably substitute hot dogs for the filet mignon. Black Blade (5/4/01; 00:45:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 53021) Jobs Situation Signals Tough Times Loom http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010503/business_economy_leadall_dc_39.html Snippit:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More Americans are lining up for first-time unemployment benefits and job cut announcements rose further as the world's richest economy stumbles, signaling tough times could be ahead for several months. ``I think that we are going to see more bad news on the economic front than good news probably over most of the summer,'' said David Resler, chief economist with Nomura Securities International in New York. ``I don't see what it is that is quickly turning things around.''Black Blade: US unemployment figures come out this morning.Slingshot - I'm not very good at riddles, so I give. What's the answer? You almost sound like a metallurgist that I know. He was always quick with riddles. ;-) slingshot (5/4/01; 00:42:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 53020) Randy Are we the only ones awake?Slingshot. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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