Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...
The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.
ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/31/2003 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) timbervision (05/31/03; 22:42:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 103895) Liberty Head http://www.skolnicksreport.com/greenspan1.html While you are on the topic of "the limit of tyrants" Skolnick presents a story of oppression that we don't even know we are enduring, because the crime is so concealed."... secret Federal Reserve wire transfer records show how the Chairman of America's private central bank has apparently bribed and aided in corrupt deeds George Herbert Walker Bush and his family....derived a horrific benefit in a major gold swindle. "Some of the records purport to have the wire transfer signature of A. Greenspan whose term as Commissar of the Federal Reserve was renewed in the new century. Because he is like a corrupt Soviet dictator, answerable to no one, we coined the term, "Alan Redspan"."_____ Liberty Head (05/31/03; 22:32:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 103894) Golden Words of Wisdom "Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; ... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass ------If one could chart the limits of our endurance for injustice and oppression over time, I beleive it would be inverse to the POG.If so, than the party is over. The tyrants will leave after we flush the fiat filled punchbowl they drink from.Cheers cyberbat (05/31/03; 21:57:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 103893) Thank you Thanks, Ray and Steady for the info. Cyberbat steady (05/31/03; 21:41:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 103891) e dinar http://www.e-dinar.com/en/ link to the electronic dinar or the e dinar . Aristotle (05/31/03; 21:38:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 103890) Dollar Bill (103877) I hear you.Let me ramble for a minute along those lines of thought.No one should want to eliminate our ability and desire to grant credit. (Fortunately we have a *money system* geared to satisfy those needs.)At the same time, we must all strive to eliminate any residual confusion between ownership of tangible property (Wealth) versus accounts of credit or other insturments of financially structured promises for the same thing.I'm trying to stimulate some parallel thinking about Gold Metal and Gold credit/derivatives with this exercise.A bird in the hand draws its real value from a fundamentally different source than the two birds in the bush. Everyone should think about that for just a bit.It would be unfortunate to let ourselves think that each single bird, regardless of location (in hand or in bush,) could trade against each other at par (one-to-one) value. Wealth birds and credit birds may indeed sing similar songs, but it's only the wealth bird that is truly the food on our table.Our money system is built on our pledges to each other of the trillions of birds in a forest of trees and bushes. Lots of folks might be smiling along with the birdsong sounds of abundant money, but they're not gonna be getting any calories outta dem birds way up there in the canopy. Trade up (getting wealth for accumulated credit) whenever you have access to the means and resources. Make the exchange of credit for Tangible Wealth a part of your regular habits and you'll not go hungry. Thanks to the enduring market confusion -- the bubble in credit confidence that I mentioned in my Duisenberg post a couple days back -- the value of a bird in the hand is mispriced and can be bought at par by a single credit birdie way up there in the bush. So whaddaya standing there for?! Confidently load up your table with underpriced Wealth!!Gold. Get you some. --- Aristotle Gold Standard (05/31/03; 21:35:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 103889) Snow on a $500 bill? I thought that it was law in the U.S.A. that a person had to be DEAD before their image could be placed upon notes or coins of the nation.A flat line on the machine that goes "ping" (indicating brain activity) would not suffice in my opinion.A Snow job? Goldilox (05/31/03; 21:00:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 103888) Snow on the $500 bill? AOL News snippit:WASHINGTON (May 29) - Treasury Secretary John Snow is the nation's top money man, but he might need a refresher course on the greenbacks the United States makes these days.Snow was asked during an online "chat'' Wednesday what form of currency he would like to have his image on."I would put it on the $500 bill,'' Snow replied. It has the least circulation. That way I wouldn't have to see myself too often.''Oops. Circulation of the $500 bill was discontinued in 1974.Goldilox:Given the current currency inflation, it might be a useful demonination.The current design of the $500 bill has William McKinley on the obverse. The official whitehouse.gov history of ol' Mac says:"When McKinley became President, the depression of 1893 had almost run its course and with it the extreme agitation over silver. Deferring action on the money question, he called Congress into special session to enact the highest tariff in history. His second term, which had begun auspiciously, came to a tragic end in September 1901. He was standing in a receiving line at the Buffalo Pan-American Exposition when a deranged anarchist shot him twice. He died eight days later."Maybe Mr. Snow ought to rethink his wish to something else in low circulation, like the 50 cent piece. Oops, that president was assasinated, too. cyberbat (05/31/03; 20:43:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 103887) Steady, Steady, come back!!! Steady, you remind me of a scripture in the Bible (Old Testament) about having eyes, but can't see, ears but can't hear, and mouths that do not speak.I don't know if you know it or not but the post you made about a clearing house for gold dinars is the grand post of the month. Do you not realize the potential bomb shell for the U.S. Government and the avalanche of opportunity to the small invester in such a game? There will be no bi-lateral agreements with the U.S. in this business. Are you listening? Can you hear what I saying/asking. NO BI-LATERAL AGREEMENTS!!! Unseen buying and selling from prying eyes. Please, please get us more info on this freedom of opportunity for us all------quickly. Such as where will the clearing houses be. Will they sell gold on the internet. Can customer have codes to peer at their accounts. Can physical delivery be made if you show up in person to BUY and SELL--anonymously. Quick now, I need more info. PLEASE. Thanks, Cyberbat Goldilox (05/31/03; 20:28:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 103886) Bush leaves G-8 early http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88089,00.html snippit:WASHINGTON -- President Bush's decision to leave this year'sÝGroup of Eight (search)Ýsummit in France earlyÝmay be a sharp reminder of remaining differences after the war in Iraq. In an interview with foreign journalists, Bush said the summit in Evian ? a French alpine spa ? provided an opportunity for him to talk with leaders "whether they are in agreement with the United States or have differences." Goldilox:After telling journalists that the G-8 "would not be a controversial event", Bush made it clear that there are higher priorities on his agenda."The Evian summit will not be a confrontational summit," the French newspaper Le Figaro quoted Bush as saying.But the White House announced that Bush will cut his own time in Evian to a little over 24 hours silvercollector (05/31/03; 19:48:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 103884) More "Beggar thy neighbor " pains http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/30/commentary/bidask/bidask/index.htm "The European Central Bank, for instance, looks set to finally cut rates next week, and Llewellyn forecasts that it will continue to cut substantially through the year. Japan, no longer having even the hope of depending on export-led growth , may finally let bad businesses fail." Cometose (05/31/03; 19:39:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 103883) @steady //dinar dirham discussion thank you for your post.....it makes somewhat of a bridge...for me in my understanding of the nearing finanicial landscape and the bridge that the EURO may now be forming toward the future.......NOW let me see here.....If someone offered me the alternative of banking in an institution in which I knew there was to be no credit creation and that all the deposits in that system were backed by gold and silver.......it might appear to me a more attractive alternative to the current (derivitive cesspool / fed reserve cesspool) system......all paper redeemable in silver in gold....sounds mighty damn good to me......where do I sign up for a neighborhood franchise?????????????????????????????????You meand someone wants to compete with the fed........like FED EX going into business to compete with UPS.....will the world also return to free competition and free markets.......this is sounding better by the moment.....and the internet will provide us with global anonimity....we'll see...........!!!!!!!! silvercollector (05/31/03; 19:19:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 103882) For BB, All : Panic for NG http://www.prudentbear.com/internationalperspective.asp "I don't believe I'll ever see gas below $4.50 again." -- T. Boone Pickens, Grant's Spring Conference 2003 Goldilox (05/31/03; 18:34:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 103881) Policy reversal @ silvercollector:Perhaps we should not confuse "statement reversal" with "policy reversal." The best way to determine that a politician is lying is still to verify movement of his lips. silvercollector (05/31/03; 18:28:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 103880) Boilermaker Reading your comments for message 103871 I have to ask what "ultimate release of the dollar" means?Secondly, are we not already in "policy reversal"? silvercollector (05/31/03; 18:18:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 103879) Invisible Hand Canada's cenral bank shifting reserves to Euros? Are you sure, wow that's close to home!From their site:"As at 31 December 2000, about US$21.7 billion of liquidreserves (75 per cent of the total) was held inassets denominated in U.S. dollars, the remainder,equivalent to US$7.1 billion, was denominated ineuros and yen"We shall watch and see. Goldilox (5/31/03; 18:12:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 103878) Firm adds insult to personal injury as it sacks workers by text message http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,967698,00.html snippit:Staff at Britain's biggest personal injury claims firm, The Accident Group, were told they had been sacked by an early hours text message when the company went out of business yesterday, leaving 2,500 people jobless. ...Clive Entwistle, head of corporate affairs at the company until yesterday, explained the manner in which many staff were sacked by saying: "It was considered by them [the administrators] that the best way to inform them that salaries were not being paid would be to send a text message. Because people had received their pay slips, they would expect that money to go into their accounts today, and because that was not going to happen, they took the decision to inform staff by text message." Goldilox: Damn, now that's cold . . . laid off via phone messaging. I guess the administrators decided that since they were also getting the axe, they were definitely NOT going to suffer the pain of laying off 2500 workers. This would truly be an infuriorating way to enter the bone pile! Dollar Bill (5/31/03; 17:53:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 103877) Steady Hi Steady, thanks for posting that.Since they get thier ideas from the Koran,Am I wrong to think, well, let me not mention my thoughts after actually reading the Koran. Let me reccomend next time you go to the bookstore you read say, the first 25 pages of the Koran.Am I wrong to think that the system, which doesnt allow for credit creation, is a disaster for poor folks in need?Any disaster, say a crop failure, leaves the locals with no possibility of getting help from anyone.How would anyone buy a home? Save up enough gold and payup front? A farmer would need to have saved enough grains from last years harvest, assumeing he could in spite of weather, bugs, thieves(too harsh a word for your hungry neighbors also frozen in poverty by this no credit system),hungry kids eating the "profits", what would EVER compell the rich to sell the land to the goldless? No credit system?We have done that ! Dark ages comes to mind. The Invisible Hand (5/31/03; 17:46:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 103876) The euro's fan club http://www.observer.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,967764,00.html All hail the conquering euro The dollar's loss has been the single currency's gain as Wim's baby gains a new international fan club, says Faisal Islam SNIPS:The Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad, has urged Petronas, the state oil company, to trade in euros rather than dollars. In March the owners of Airbus began lobbying Boeing to adopt the euro as benchmark currency for the commercial aircraft market. When the central bank of Iraq was cleaned out by Saddam Hussein's son ahead of the war, there were EURO100 million with the dollars. Saddam had bought into the euro at the bottom of the market. Currency traders say that the People's Bank of China, the Central Bank of Taiwan, and the Bank of Canada have shifted their portfolios towards the European currency. The euro bulls predict that the single currency could make up 20 per cent of global foreign currency reserves by the end of this year, or half a trillion out of$2.4 trillion. This is far below the 68 per cent held in dollars but well up on the 10 per cent held in euros early last year. ...The mere possibility of this fundamental shift in portfolios is likely to be supportive to the single currency, regardless of the effect on the eurozone economy. The strong dollar is dead. The strong euro may have come at an inopportune moment. But it is here to stay. 21mabry (5/31/03; 17:37:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 103875) Ben Graham In reading Benjamin Grahams memoirs if I am understanding him correctly.He suggests gold mine stocks preformed so well during the great depression because goverments bought their products at a set price required by law and their labor costs were greatly reduced as well as their other costs associated with buisness.If I have misinterpeted these thoughts I would appreciate someone letting me know. steady (5/31/03; 17:28:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 103874) no credit. means gold and SILVER The new Islamic Money System is a major component of the Diwan al Caliph and has already reached an advanced stage of development as far as its four principal institutions are concerned, namely the Islamic Mint, the Islamic Wakala, the e-Dinar system and the Office of the Muhtasib. Islamic Mint The functions of the Islamic Mint are: … To mint the Islamic Dinar and Dirham in all its denominations … To maintain the standards of the Dinar and Dirham … To mint the Fulus Wakala The functions of the Islamic Wakala are: … Holding accounts in Dinars and Dirhams … Executing payments on behalf of account holders … Transporting Dinars and Dirhams to any location in the world … Buying, selling and exchanging Dinars and Dirhams e-Dinar The functions of the e-Dinar system are: … Providing a 24 hour worldwide public interface for the services of the Wakala via the internet … Networking all the Wakala institutions Muhtasib (Auditors Office) In the Islamic Money System there can be absolutely no creation of credit. For every dinar or dirham in an account there must be the equivalent physical gold dinars or silver dirhams in the Wakala at any time. The Wakala is not a bank or a lending institution. There is and can be absolutely no element of credit creation. The Wakil is simply an agent for the owner of the dinars and dirhams. The e-Dinar system is only an interface between individuals and the Wakala. The Muhtasib will be entrusted with, and given the necessary authority and powers of enforcement to ensure that this is always the case. A network of Wakalas integrated by the e-Dinar will form the operational core of the Islamic money system and will eventually enable it to function entirely independently of the current banking system. The Wakala network will operate a worldwide Dinar account and payment system which is 100% gold backed. The Islamic Wakala of Dubai has been established as the first clearing house and main gold deposit for the entire network. Boilermaker (5/31/03; 17:18:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 103873) Cometose msg#: 103868 Well said.The erosion of freedom is proportional to the growth of government and debt. steady (5/31/03; 17:17:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 103872) dinar dirham. link shows what the coins look like. http://www.islamicmint.com/islamicdinar/whatrthey.html Under what was known as the coin standard of the Khalif Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the weight of 10 dirhams was equivalent to 7 dinars (mithqals)The Islamic Dinar is a specific weight of 22k gold equivalent to 4.25 grammes. The Islamic Dirham is a specific weightof pure silver equivalent to 3.0 grammes. Boilermaker (5/31/03; 17:13:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 103871) Strong Dollar Policy http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=580&ncid=580&e=1&u=/nm/20030531/bs_nm/forex_bush_dollar_dc Snip;KRAKOW, Poland (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) said the "devalued" level of the dollar on global markets runs contrary to U.S. policy in favor of a strong dollar, according to an interview transcript released on Saturday. Bush was interviewed by Russia's RTR TV on Thursday. The transcript was released by the White House on Saturday as Bush headed to St. Petersburg. Asked about U.S. dollar policy, Bush replied: "The policy of my administration is for there to be a strong U.S. dollar." When the reporter told Bush the dollar was not strong at the moment, Bush replied: "Well, I understand that. And the marketplace is making decisions as to whether the dollar should be strong or not. Our policy is a strong dollar. And we believe that good fiscal and monetary policy will cause our economy to grow and that the marketplace will see a growing economy and therefore strengthen the dollar," he said. "But you're right, the market, at this point in time, has devalued the dollar, which is contrary to our policy," he said. Bush's remarks were released on the eve of a Group of Eight summit in the French town of Evian, where any coordinated statement on volatile currencies could be treated as a sign that the dollar's sharp decline has gone too far, analysts say. comment;It has occurred to me that the Administration has established a code for public pronouncements relating to the defense and ultimate release of the dollar. Insiders who know the code will be forwarned and be prepared to act in advance of "policy reversal". Dollar Bill (5/31/03; 17:12:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 103870) Nolan sez ..By pegging short-term rates at low levels, the Fed can easily manipulate a steep yield curve that basically guarantees profits for our troubled banking system. ..The Fed has gone out and designed a trough that can feed all takers. ultra-low short-rates, and basically "pegged" long-term yields. The Fed has created an extraordinary environment for the financial sector. ..The normal interaction of supply and demand impacting the price of Credit has been completely repudiated. The Credit spigot is being turned wide open. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (5/31/03; 14:56:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 103869) Your understanding of gold may well be your North Star as you navigate the future http://www.usagold.com/cpm/abcs.html
"Gold will play a critically important role in American investment portfolios in the years to come. This book provides investors a basic education on private gold ownership from one of the nation's top experts." --Rep. Ron Paul, Texas, U.S. House of RepresentativesPlease Remember: It is your purchase from USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals that nourishes these pages.
"Gold will play a critically important role in American investment portfolios in the years to come. This book provides investors a basic education on private gold ownership from one of the nation's top experts." --Rep. Ron Paul, Texas, U.S. House of Representatives
Please Remember: It is your purchase from USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals that nourishes these pages.
Permission to reprint is hereby granted where the USAGOLD name is cited along with our web address, mailing address and phone number. For electronic reproductions, citing the post heading and the http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/ website address as the source is sufficient.