All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
YGM (12/30/05; 23:50:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 139886)
A Google Gaggle of Info on Gold Standard & Mundell etc.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-20,GGLG:en&q=Mundell+on+return+to+Gold+Standard
Some may find something of interest or education here.
YGM (12/30/05; 23:48:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 139885)
Interesting Reading & Facts on Gold Standard etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
Good refresher course for some.
David Linkley (12/30/05; 23:13:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 139884)
@Belgian
Hi Belgian,
I do enjoy the discussions of this board and challenge myself to see others viewpoints as possibly better than my own. My living depends on me doing this constantly as I don't argue with markets or facts. You make some very good points of which I am open to. Where I differ is if the world is moving to gold for the betterment of it's peoples why is oppression on the rise? Why aren't the benevolent central bankers of the world helping us to understand the coming changes? Why are we (the West) mindlessly running up unstainable debtloads if the new system calls for fiscal restraint? Who does this new system benefit the most? What I most fear is a new Trojan Horse disguised as the new economic savior on a global scale.
In theory I support your goal of integrating gold into the world's financial system, however I have grave reservations as to the future of a system without the checks and balances of informed peoples.
David Linkley (12/30/05; 22:29:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 139883)
@ 968
Hi 968,
Good questions and in my view no short-term happy ending. Eventually the US must default on it's monetary obligations through a repudiation of Federal Reserve notes or try and hyperinflate away much of the debt. The rest of the world will not sit still if this should occur. I believe the gold price is rising because other nations have seen the future and it is currently at best a very devalued dollar. So they are exchanging their dollars for hard assets and gold. The uncertainty of what system might take it's place is unsettling to many.
Belgian and TownCrier may be right with the US eventually forced to join others and tie the dollar to gold to remain a viable world player. However with the US armed to the teeth, resource shortages and a leadership crises in the West the near term future is very unclear.
I believe this current course was set decades ago not so much as a detailed plan but as a rough framework to be be executed over time. The Americans of the 50's and 60's would not accept the idea of being integrated into a NWO.
Even today most Americans have not accepted the huge structural changes to the economy. (i.e. globalization) Only an indebted and divided US with little hope would accept a NWO.
The true wealth of a nation is the productivity of its people, the rule of law under which they live and the moral fiber of their leaders. Gold will not save any nation nor the world if these other pieces are missing. As the old order crumbles (IMF system) a new one must take its place. In the US the old order (gold standard) was replaced by the Federal Reserve (new order) under the guise of preventing bank failures and smoothing out economic rough spots (i.e. mini depressions). The results of that experiment, decades of destroying the value of the dollar, an out of control growth of government, the worst depression in our history, individual rights under seige, allowing for the funding of unpopular wars (Vietnam, Iraq) and indebting future generations with almost no hope of paying it back.
I believe in time an opportunity will appear in the US to begin reversing the tide. After the coming crises hits and the initial emotional response is over, reflection will set in on what we've lost. At that time the country will be open to positive change, not before.
Mthirsty1 (12/30/05; 21:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 139882)
photo
Towncrier,really is a great pic.Mike
USAGOLD Daily Market Report (12/30/05; 17:40:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 139881)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.
If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.
FRIDAY Market Excerpts
Gold ends 2005 over 18% higher
December 30 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures finished higher Friday, extending their winning streak to six sessions and ending 2005 with a gain of over $80 an ounce.
Gold for February delivery closed at $518.90 an ounce on the New York Mercantile Exchange, up $1.40 for the session.
Metals trading on the exchange closed by 12:10 p.m. Eastern time Friday, ahead of the New Year's holiday on Monday. Regular trading will resume Tuesday.
In the meantime, analysts remained upbeat about gold's prospects.
During the past year, gold "finally reasserted itself as something other than a 'sky-is-falling' refuge and ... emerged as a fourth global currency," said Jon Nadler, investment products analyst at bullion dealers Kitco.
And "millions of prudent investors across the globe came to the conclusion that a portfolio without gold was a luxury they could no longer afford."
Given strong demand in China and India, "enormous amounts of deficits accumulating in the U.S." and "price and expenditure shocks" brought on by several hurricanes among other things, "it is relatively easy to conclude that even a modest allocation of 5% to 10% can only benefit one's portfolio and hedge against structural dollar weakness," said Nadler.
Add to that inflation pressures, political instability and low yields on cash instruments, and the "case for gold ownership becomes compelling," he said.
This past year has merely been a "warm-up for 2006," said Dale Doelling, chief market technician at Trends In Commodities. "The perfect (financial) storm is about to come raining down on us, and the precious metals will be the place to be in the coming year," he said.
"Record high debt levels, both public and private, a housing debacle that is currently underway, the return of 'stagflation,' and a sharply lower stock market will turn the precious metals sharply higher and possibly to new all-time highs," he said.
---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire, market quotes)---
Cavan Man (12/30/05; 17:04:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 139880)
Hi MK
Mike: I think you went on record predicting $525 by year's end--not too shabby. What do you see in your crystal ball for 2006.
Goldilox (12/30/05; 16:42:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 139879)
Misdirection
Given what we are learning about media complicency in domestic spying and taxpayer-funded bribes to promote NeoCon policy, I suggest that those who believe TPTB are "looking for answers" to the dollar conundrum are incredibly gullible. They have their plans well in place, and the disinformation campaign, best described in the movie "Swordfish", is all about "Misdirection".
The vast majority of people still believe that the FED has inflation "well under control," even when their own checkbooks tell them a totally different story.
But then, does anyone here remember hearing a single word about economics in public school? All I remember is classes in cooking and sewing, labeled "Home Economics".
Certainly none about "flagrantly printing money, abusive lending, and inciting resource wars for fun and profit."
Belgian (12/30/05; 15:58:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 139878)
@David
That's exactly the purpose for visiting this unique forum >>> OTHER PEOPLES'VIEWS !!!
What is your view, David !? Let us have a dialoque about it.
968 (12/30/05; 15:36:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 139877)
@ David Linkley msg#: 139876
Goodevening David,
"I for one will continue to ask tough questions and work to change the system here in the US when the opportunity presents itself."
Can you elaborate this please ? Is there a way to make the dollar IMS, a currency-system that is overprinted for 30+ years, that has a systemic trade-deficit, and that relies on the goodwill of other countries to keep dollarinflation outside US borders, healthy again ?
Could it be possible that some other political faction already asked this tough questions long ago and acted upon it ?
David Linkley (12/30/05; 15:27:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 139876)
@Belgian
Just as you and TownCrier have an opinion about the coming big picture world economic changes and how it is being accomplished I too have a view. To insinuate that I'm an ignorant gold bug brainwashed by years of propaganda tells me that you don't understand my posts. Neither you nor TownCrier seem to be bothered by how this change is occuring. Both of you are so excited by the mechanics and the utopian possibilities that neither of you are willing to ask some tough questions.
I agree as the world evolves a new system must be born fairer to all in contrast to the current IMF system. I also live in a country with a history and tradition of openess based on individual rights. No other Republic has ever been conceived before this way, and been so successful as a result. So forgive me when I question having the current system changed without a corresponding openess.
If you and TownCrier want to believe in fairytales and trust unelected officials in Brussels, be my guest. I for one will continue to ask tough questions and work to change the system here in the US when the opportunity presents itself.
I very much enjoy you and TownCrier's posts but I would caution you against being overly confident and condescending as history is filled with believers who at the end of the road found a bag of deceit.
contrarian (12/30/05; 14:09:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 139875)
White Hills I Second That
White Hills I second that. Weekends are the time for all sorts of funny going ons. Plus, look at the various Fed governors resigning, and also Alan getting out at an opportune time...he's no dummy! Although I've been saying this for years, it truly does seem the S will hit the F this year, perhaps by March. The devious planners they are, they didn't suspend M3 for nothing!
White Hills (12/30/05; 13:58:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 139874)
ROOK
Maybe they want to spend dollars as fast as possible before its value falls through the floor.Russia accepting Euros for Oil and Iran announcing it will do so in March is one of the triggers that some have predicted prior to a Dollar collapse. Together with rising Gold and Silver price; balance of payments; budget deficits; interest prices and inflation, these are all indications of a currency reform in the process. Keep your Gold close and not in a safe deposit box in the bank. One Historic Monday morning there will be a red seal on the box THAT CAN ONLY BE OPENED IN THE PRESENCE OF A GOVERNMET AGENT. White Hills
TownCrier (12/30/05; 13:18:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 139873)
Gold looks good after glittering year
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=reutersEdge&storyID=2005-12-30T133429Z_01_KWA047499_RTRUKOC_0_US-MARKETS-PRECIOUS-YEAREND.xml
Dec 30, 2005 LONDON (Reuters) - Gold served up glittering returns in 2005 as many funds and investors included it in their portfolios for the first time in years and analysts saw no sign of the rally fizzling out in 2006.
Gold surged by a quarter this year when it hit its highest level in nearly 25 years of $540.90 an ounce in December, after spending the first eight months in a $410-$460 range.
"Generally investors have done very well in gold. Money goes to performance, so as the funds performed well, more investors put money into those funds," said Jeremy East, global head of precious metals at Commerzbank.
The metal's buoyant tone turned out to be the beginning of a roaring rally in early November, with gold sprinting up by 19 percent in just one month and staying above the psychological level of $500 for most of that time.
It traded at around $513 an ounce on Friday, but leading investment banks and research firms said gold had potential to rise beyond recent highs in 2006.
...Strong fundamentals also aided the metal, with physical demand rising in key markets and supply seen stagnating in the longer term.
Gold output in South Africa, the world's top producer, fell 15.4 percent in the third quarter to 72.4 tonnes from the same period last year due to restructuring and shaft closures.
...Gold's tight inverse relationship with the dollar weakened in the last quarter of 2005, when it extended gains despite a rise in the dollar.
Speculation that some central banks might turn out to be buyers in a bid to reduce their heavy dependence on the dollar in their reserves gave a further boost to the market.
Gold's spike to multi-decade highs in December was fueled by Japanese investors who showed a keen interest in the market following a drop in their local currency. To curb volatility, the Tokyo Commodity Exchange imposed trading margins on futures.
^---(from url)---^
Although lacking anything insightful, the article nonetheless reflects a positive mainstream overview to put a ribbon on gold for the past year and the year ahead.
R.
TownCrier (12/30/05; 13:10:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 139872)
Buying gold
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsPhotoPresentation.aspx?type=reutersEdge&imageID=2005-12-30T133427Z_01_KWA047499_RTRUKOP_0_PICTURE0.xml
Nice picture and text from Reuters.
R.
TownCrier (12/30/05; 13:06:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 139871)
Gold traders relieved as buyers return after holiday
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1351839,prtpage-1.cms
(TNN) DECEMBER 30, 2005; MUMBAI: After a lull of about a fortnight, the yellow metal price is again surging as the buyers returned in New York and London after Christmas holiday. Back home, gold prices soared to Rs 7,650 on Thursday, gaining Rs 100 per 10 gm in a single day.
Bets are pouring in at all the bourses across the globe as a volatile gold price has created the ideal platform for investors and speculators to ensure a healthy return. Gold trading was dull in the last few days as market players in overseas market slipped into holiday mode.
Meanwhile, two Asian giants China and Japan have emerged as major market movers in the bullion market, unlike earlier years when the west used to influence the yellow metal price.
Japan is moving the market more than any other countries. The reported high level of arbitrage between the spot market in Tokyo and the Tokyo Commodity Exchange Gold Futures is impacting the gold price.
Traders in Japan have been reportedly buying from the spot market and selling in the futures when the price was volatile last week.
^---(from url)---^
Sound familiar? Buying spot (metal) and selling the futures (paper).... we've certainly had entertaining discussions of that program before.
R.
Liberty Head (12/30/05; 12:33:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 139870)
Chalabi takes over Iraq Oil Ministry
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/35CADFBB-7D78-4847-85E2-3E6AE80BDC67.htm
Some oil consumers have more faith in brass and lead while others have more faith in gold.
Best Wishes
Liberty Head (12/30/05; 11:51:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 139869)
"Beware the Ides of March"
March 2006 is shaping up to be quite a pivotal month in many ways, isn't it?
Best Wishes
Rook (12/30/05; 11:46:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 139868)
l/_
Bahrain, or quatar, or uae, or whatever country it is that sits on the edges of saudi arabia or just offshore, is on a building binge. There is something like a 3 mile strip that is bordered by water, and desert, but has 1 main road that is a broad avenue with high rise buildings. The emir, who rules there, calls his main guy and says keep building!
Quickly! His main guy was interviewed by new yorker mag and he said the Emir is constantly on him to build, and now. Why?
The saudis just announced a 26 billion dollar city they plan to build. I think it will be a good deal more than 26 billion, but whatever, when oil guys are busy doing things, I think a review of thier actions and possible motives should make it to the radar screen.
Waverider (12/30/05; 10:10:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 139867)
Congress May Take Until March to Raise U.S. Borrowing Limit
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=ahD_jYYGMu.E&refer=news_index
Dec. 30 (Bloomberg) -- "The U.S. Congress may not act on President George W. Bush's request for more borrowing authority until early March, which would force the Treasury to use unusual measures such as shuffling money among government pension funds to finance operations. Treasury Secretary John Snow told Congress yesterday that the government may reach its statutory borrowing limit of $8.18 trillion by mid-February, and asked lawmakers to raise the debt ceiling ``as soon as possible."
Waverider: No suprises - we heard it here first last week.
Max Rabbitz (12/30/05; 09:34:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 139866)
The Invisible Hand and the Banking/Government Complex
Although the "Military Industrial Complex" has been thought to be the main source of evil since Ike warned us, it is really the banking/government complex that runs the show. Witness the total lack of media coverage. The "strong dollar" policies of former Secretary of the Treasury Robert Reuben, formerly of Goldman Sacs and now Citibank, primarily benefited the major banks/financial interests and decimated U.S. industrial production. Will another Goldman executive save Italy? It's too late for a strong Lira policy. Perhaps this all has to do with the dollar/Euro battle. Is Italy the weak link in the Euro? Whatever, banking and finance in the western world is far from a free market as long as private interests control the issue of money and collude to set interest rates.
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (12/30/05; 08:21:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 139865)
A world of gold at your fingertips...
http://www.usagold.com/buy-gold-coins.html
Belgian (12/30/05; 06:42:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 139864)
@Toolie
Don't ever expect the (complete) paper financial industry to go away and stop trading paper. Why should it !
It is only "that" particular faction of the paper fin. ind. that is ***-PRICING-*** the underlying tangibles, and is "protected" for doing so, that must/shall be stopped !!!
***PRICING POWER*** is a (national + geo) political matter !!! Pricing power is a very limited freedom. It rather is a (political) war. Pricing power is given and taken away by the warring geopolitical blocks.
No reason to worry about more or less paper gold when we see more and more signs as to where the competing political wills are evolving. A shift from paper goldpricing towards physical goldpricing.
Think about, how the political pricing of oil, has already evolved ...and more importantly, WHY it has evolved the way we are seeing (feeling) it ...all regardless of paper oil !
Belgian (12/30/05; 05:03:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 139863)
TC msg#139848 > reply to David L.
Perfect analysis of the (unfortunate) general state of mind of the entire (western) gold-bug community.
Unfortunate, because these 25 years of flawed linear gold (and silver !) thinking sits very, VERY deep. Is the result of the massive invasion of the AA financial industry and its hysterical media cohorts. But outside this artificial and deceptive cocoon...there are billions of other (silent) people (and their nation states) that aren't enslaved by the all embracing financial industry's practices. They (the majority) whish that the gold transition goes as smooth as possible, because "time" is on "their" side.
Gradual change is consistent, whilst brutal crashes come and go and change nothing, fundamentally. Check this in your (objective) history books for evidence.
The IMS is already in the process of gradual (smooth) change for the past 35 years. That's exactly WHY nothing VISIBLE happened to gold, during the past 3 decades. IMS is an "INTERNATIONAL" system and should be considered as such and NOT from only one single US-$ angle !!! Idem dito for all things "golden".
The same goes for the change in global energy-reserve matters...the very basic fundamental of the IMS.
This is the one and only reason WHY it is increasingly wise to leave the old paper gold games for what they were (weren't) and focus on goldmetal and its future. We all know about the profitability of the paper past...we are learning about the tangible future.
This planet, relentlessly overwhelmed by paper, is in the process of finding and working its way "out" of this paper grip (dominance)...without throwing the golden baby away with the bathwater !
Think for instance WHY platinum has outperformed gold (and silver) ! Maybe it has something to do with less "paper" wrapped around it !? Rethink the changing dynamics that took place in the "pricing" of oil, in only half a decade !
Rethink the change in currency exchange rates' "pricing" that happened in that same half decade ! It all happened rather smoothly (disciplined), didn't it ?
Oekraine has exactly 2 days left to pay 5 times more for the russian gas (a tangible) it is importing...or face a cold winter. And Saudi Arabia goes Galileo.
These changes are (shockingly) significant and evidence that a lot is "moving"...steadily and gradually.
Asia (China in particular) remains very untransparent in its rapidly growing paper shops. Evidence that they want to proceed smoothly and gradually without much sensationalist fanfare. You will see it, when they want you to see it. Think in analogy about gold...the metal versus the paper.
Toolie (12/30/05; 04:55:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 139862)
Paper gold in foreign exchange
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/051230/17/g4tg.html
Snip: SHENZHEN, Dec 30 Asia Pulse - The Shenzhen Branch of the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) will issue paper gold in foreign exchange in Shenzhen City, south China's Guangdong Province, on January 5, 2006, the first of its kind in China.
The service, called gold trading on private accounts, will allow investors to conduct gold transactions in foreign exchange, with no need of trading gold in kind, providing a new investment channel for the foreign exchange assets of investors. (end snip)
I wonder what to make of this...
More of the same old paper gold, I'm not so sure. This short article doesn't seem to claim that these paper gold shares are backed by anything more than paper currency.
It would allow the participant to bet on the direction of gold, maybe write contracts payable in paper gold. It could be handy for deposits trying to arrange for delivery, as dollars deposited here would track the gold price until delivery was made.
Is it useful as a transitional tool?
The Invisible Hand (12/30/05; 01:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 139861)
From the guys who invented the wheel
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/3571
[GATA] Goldman Sachs acquires Italian central bank
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?
pid=10000006&sid=adB0ATBK1kqw&refer=home
SNIP
E -- Mario Draghi, a vice chairman of Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
and former Italian treasury official, was named head of the Bank of
Italy as the central bank seeks to rebuild credibility after the
resignation of Antonio Fazio.
==
A sensible person would be happy that a CB is being privatised.
Gata not. Gata wants government in central banking so that government can manipulate gold.
Will Gata institute proceedings against Goldman Sachs for monopolization (under the laws of the US of A) or abuse of dominant position under EU law?
Get a life!
Oops, only non-anarchists are entitled to a life.
Isn't the purpose of antitrust law not yet clear? No, only anarchists can argue that real violations of antitrust law can occur only when government facilitates the violations, no when government initiates those violations. And before 1890, date of the enactment of the Sherman Act, the US of A was a banana-republic because it didn't have an antitrust law. And now it's welfare state with monkey money. Thank You Mr. Sherman. The Fed was established in 1913, I think. You needed only 20 years to destroy that once great country.
Rook (12/30/05; 00:44:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 139860)
l/_
The system is what? buying and selling eh? The new system must be the alteration of who gets to buy and who gets to sell in some way. If the goal is to remove production from its previous power to control, the goal must be to have buying be the power to control.
The struggle must be to grudingly give the power of debt to as many countries as the US must be forced to. All countries will not have equal treatment, self interest being what it is, so, barring divine intervention, we will see more poverty in the new system, and it will be dealt with in squeaky wheel fashion only for the most part.
I do believe the new system became up and running in 2005.
I think the G-8 or 9 is the actual system members, and they will jostle for advantage, but will cooperate to run us all and the rest of the world.
They will give -aid- and will get around to controlling how much debt they will allow individual countries to have.
A sort of annual debt allowance for each country.
Each country will have thier debt allowance to add to whatever they actually earn from production.
Is this a reasonable guess as to the new system?
ViewYesterday's Discussion.
