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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/30/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Rx Gold (06/30/00; 23:37:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 33062)
Sir Leland
Thanx for the link to Goldfield. They got quite a bit wrong on that site. I guess that is what can be expected from something done by someone who doesn't live there. Cripes even a picture of Gold Point!! For your info Gold Point is or at least was very cool little town. Lots of old cabins and buildings and an interest in the locals to keep it 'Gost Town' like. there was a guy who put alot of time and work into rebuilding the bar and a few out building and use to put on one heck of a party on the 4th. Folks came from all over with bands and lots of beer. Water was scarce but the beer just flowed.
Rx Gold

elevator guy (06/30/00; 22:52:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 33061)
Rap, 4th of July, and the Federal Reserve
At one time the United States was a people with its OWN government, and not one imposed on them by force. It was a unique situation, because the founding fathers had provided a Constitution that limited the power of government, and thereby granted unpredecented sovereignty to each citicen.

This was either a threat to TPTB, (banksters of Europe), or they saw an opportunity to re-enter the States not with a militia, but with a sneaky little tool for wealth and control, called the Federal Reserve Note. Early part of this century, a group of obscure powerful banksters drafted the Federal Reserve Act, and the reins of power was from then on remotely controlled by this elite group.

Taxes of every sort take almost 50% of the average man's and women's earnings, figuring in Federal Tax, State Tax, gas tax, sales taxes, this tax, that tax, et al. The dollar also goes through a de-valuation process, possibly cyclically, that robs further real earned value from the caloused hands of the workers, without a shot being fired. By the time all living expenses are paid out of what is left the worker, all that remains is enough to rent a movie, and call for pizza. This is what we are working for, the weekend collapse, into the arms of fast food and the lacivious entertainment of the media. Who has time left over, or the energy, to study the tax codes? Flip on the tube, and let your mind sink into abandonment at the latest clever sit-com. The blue flickering light gently massages my brain into a deep slumber. There is no danger of losing control, because my tummy is full, and all is well. Oh yeah? Better look again. We are all working as indentured servants, laboring to carry the heavy yoke of easy credit debt.

Truly, financial control is the only control neccessary to subjecate a people, to usurp the authority of their laws, no matter how brilliantly written, and enslave the once free and sovereign citicens of this great country.

So while we surfs do not bow to the King, we still pay homage indirectly, to the same power structure, the tip of the pyramid of world power, the international banksters, the "landowners" of the financial landscape.

If my hope were only in this world, I would be overcome with anger and saddness at the current state of affairs. But I look for a city whose builder and maker is God.

Which is not to say that we should just roll over, and let evil run its course. Our integrity requires that we do what we can to preserve what remains. Any suggestions on recovering the control of our currency?

tedw (06/30/00; 22:03:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 33060)
Calif. supreme Court ruling
http://www.usagold.com
Steve H

The California Supreme Court decision is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

Citizens of California are also citizens of the United States. Whether or not the California Constitution confers the right to bear arms is irrelevant.The California Court is aware their is a second amendement to the US Constitution. They are aware that the US Constitution is the supreme law of the land. They have also sworn an oath to be bond by the Constitution.

Put quite simply, those kind of Judges are criminal scum intent on usurping the rights confered to us by men who gave their blood.

I think there is an especially hot place in Hell for them.


Simply Me (06/30/00; 21:33:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 33059)
An easy riddle.
What's the only thing louder than the fireworks in Tennessee on the Fourth of July?

Hmmmmmm?

C'mon. Guess. No, not the protestors at the State Capital, although that was fun!

Answer: Gunfire! Every hunter and farmer in the area keeps his firearms clean and loaded for hunting season, criminals, Fourth of July and New Years...in that order. YeeeHaaawww!!





Simply Me (06/30/00; 21:21:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 33058)
Thanks RAP!
I've copied your post to read to my children on Independence Day. Gotta go buy the fireworks now. After a good ol' Tennessee barbecue amongst the grove of Maple and Oak trees in our backyard, we'll head for the field to set off some REAL fireworks (yep, Tennessee still sells REAL fireworks..not just sparklers!). We may still be a little backward here in the heart of the country, but I thank God every day for it.

Nashville, TN, is the home of the Second Tea Party...where Dave Ramsey started the drive to send tea bags to Congress
to let them know we're sick of taxes! Kept them from voting themselves a raise.

This is also the city where thousands of protesters walked with signs and drove honking their horns around the State Capital to remind our representatives that they worked for us! Made them vote down a Tennessee State Income Tax.
Side story: During the Income Tax debates, the protestors outside made the Income Tax proponents inside the Capital so upset they had to be taken away by ambulance to be treated for high blood pressure. The next day, protestors showed up with signs saying "Let's send them all to the ER!"
(Not much politically correct around here.<big smile>)

And, by the way...anyone who's grown up in Middle Tennessee will tell you, Al Gore is a foreigner.

Love Freedom...Buy Gold
****Wishing One and All a Star-Spangled Fourth of July!****
simply me

RAP (06/30/00; 20:42:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 33057)
The real meaning of the 4TH of July
Subject: Lest we forget ...

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his
home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags. Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire.
The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. The
history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes this year while enjoying your 4th of
July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: freedom is never free!


Leland (06/30/00; 20:11:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 33056)
@Topaz, Thank you...
http://members.tripod.com/~Old_Rl/CASH.HTM
A "piece from the past", as Michael would say...This is my
Uncle Gene and Aunt Stella. Part of my growing-up was spent
on their ranch.

America is full of pioneers and, on this Fourth of July
Weekend, a tribute to ALL that have made America GREAT!

USAGOLD (06/30/00; 20:05:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 33055)
Heartfelt thanks for heartfelt words. . . .
I could not stop here tonight without acknowledging this session's heartfelt posts and overall sense that there is a change in the air. I too get the same feeling. The people who post here are something else. I never cease to be amazed. I feel I speak for many when I say that what goes on here is something special, and that those who do not speak would want me to say that. I have said this before and I'll say it once more. I am humbled and honored by the great minds who decide to post here either as first-timers or as regulars. Sometimes, I think you do not realize the impact you are having. Thousands visit this site daily and read your words. They return time and time again for that morsel of insight and wisdom that confirms their own feelings, suspicions (sorry for the negative) and thoughts. For those who have posted their thanks to me for this site in the past, I can only say once again: The pleasure is mine, my fellow knights and ladies. I am honored by your presence at this extraordinary table.

Let the discussion continue. For all those who have shared a piece of themselves here in the past, let me offer my thanks. For all those contemplating the same, let me say there is nothing to it:

Just sit down to the keyboard and open a vein.

I'm sure you will find a reader or two, make someone think, make someone laugh, perhaps even make someone post.

Have a nice Fourth, my fellow meisters. I'll be here from time to time over the long weekend.

Turnaround (06/30/00; 19:19:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 33054)
I will not say that
Jones (06/30/00; 16:25:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 33047)
Mr Gresham, msg# 33045
"I've been sensing the same thing. There seems to be a quiet confidence developing."

I think you may be onto something, it's hard to say for sure with only text signals.

"As a frequent observer, I've also noticed that our zeal over daily events seems to have been tempered by experience. We are more savvy now... battle tested from
events you mentioned. The giddiness is being replaced with a balanced, street smart resolve.

"Many thanks to yourself, FOA/TG, Aristotle, ORO, TC, MK and the insightful, eloquent posters on this forum who daily foster that resolve."

I will second that with a toast. (smile)

In between cramming/brushing up on von Mises, authors noted above (I think I can get a 90% on a pop quiz by now-
it does change your outlook , hmmm?), CM, QM, QED, Brussels School, Santa Fe, NN, Societies of Mind,
critical point, dynamical systems, informatics, game theory and on and on world without end,
I pause now and then to write on the chalk board-

I will not be a smart @$$
I will not be a sm…

So, maybe some day we'll look over yonder at the monetary/economic distress flares lighting up the night sky and
write-

I will not say "I told you so"
I will not say…


Topaz (06/30/00; 18:49:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 33053)
Leland- Black Blade-All
Leland:
Great efforts lately- keep it up!
BB:
Pls disregard post referencing JG, an errant cut/paste revealed a Name, Age, City and Country in the "subject" field where your ref should have been.
As the details, based on your general time of posting, could have been YOU, I thought it prudent to check with the Tower.
The folly revealed itself the next morning when Daughter 2 fessed up to using the Machine and in fact is acquainted with said JG.
Should have checked with other users first I suppose.
Mea-Culpa (sp)

All:
Good wishes for the "Holidays"
Irrationally Exuberantly yours

Topaz



wiley (06/30/00; 18:41:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 33052)
Heaven-maybe you can take it with you
don't know is this has been posted before--sorry if it has been.
Just a little levity on a slow night.


There once was a rich man who was near death. He was very
grieved because he had worked so hard for his money and he
wanted to be able to take it with him to heaven. So he began
to pray that he might be able to take some of his wealth
with him.

An angel hears his plea and appears to him. "Sorry, but you
can't take your wealth with you." The man implores the angel
to speak to God to see if He might bend the rules.

The man continues to pray that his wealth could follow him.

The angel reappears and informs the man that God has decided
to allow him to take one suitcase with him. Overjoyed, the
man gathers his largest suitcase and fills it with pure gold
bars and places it beside his bed.

Soon afterward he dies and shows up at the Gates of Heaven to
greet St. Peter. St. Peter seeing the suitcase says,
"Hold on, you can't bring that in here!"

But, the man explains to St. Peter that he has permission and
asks him to verify his story with the Lord. Sure enough
St.Peter checks and comes back saying, "You're right. You are
allowed one carry-on bag, but I'm supposed to check its
contents before letting it through."

St. Peter opens the suitcase to inspect the worldly items that
the man found too precious to leave behind and exclaims

"You brought pavement?"

Email source unknown



Black Blade (06/30/00; 18:31:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 33051)
re: Journeyman, ORO, and Topaz
I've been having problems connecting due to high winds that are playing havoc with the phone lines. I did breeze through the post though.

Journeyman: I don't recall the reference. It was about a month ago when M. Mobius was on one of his runs through SA and it was a post on one of the financial sites. I think it was Bloomberg, but I'm sure.

ORO: I think that your right about the IMF membership and Gold standard requirements. I think that Mobius just thought that they might want to bail out and go it alone. Who knows. Makes for a intersting discussion though.

Topaz: I have no idea what JG stands for. "Just Gold" ;-)

Anyway, gone on the road for a few days. Going fishing in Northern Idaho. Flying in.

Leland (06/30/00; 17:37:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 33050)
Sir Rx -- Regarding Goldfield
http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/nv/goldfield.html
I hope you'll enjoy the illustrations provided above. And,
thank you for your commentary.

Mr Gresham (06/30/00; 17:33:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 33049)
#33047
Dr. J: Made my day! Thanks for connecting, and then some.

Rx Gold (06/30/00; 17:01:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 33048)
Goldfield Nevada update.. Leland--Black Blade
none
Re: Leland (06/14/00; 14:12:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 32324)
An Enjoyable "Feature Story" Thanks to Mercury at Kitco
Date: Wed Jun 14 2000 16:03
Re:Rx Gold (06/17/00; 22:57:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 32540)
Leland/Goldfield
Re:Black Blade (06/17/00; 23:22:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 32541)
Rx Gold - Californication of Nevada ;-)

Leland, Black Blade--

This has been a long unfoldinng story about the happenings in Goldfield Nevada. Its strange how things are interconnected.

An update on Goldfield Nevada.

A friend who lives near my property in Goldfield called the other day to let me know that she had seen some people around my property and had gone over to check them out. There was a local guy and his friends there and his friend was coming out of one of my shed that he had used a bar to pry open a door to get in. There isn't much of value in there but the idea of someone ‘breaking and entering’ kind of T's me off. I gave the sheriff a call and let him know what had happened. He called back and said everything looked ok and he would have a little talk with the local. Next time I'm down I for sure will have a little talk with the SOB. I guess that he had called me to find out if my cabins were for sale just for a cover story.
Most of the people that live in Goldfield, at least the older residents know to leave what's not theirs alone. The newcomers and tourists think that if there isn't anyone around that it is ok to help themselves. I often would run off tourists who would go right into people's yards and mine to pick up old desert stuff that was displayed there. They would say something like ‘oh, its just old stuff nobody would want’. Oh yah. How come you want it then?
When I first moved to Goldfield the ground was covered with old purple bottles and lots of past memorabilia of the thousands of people who lived there. There were old wood stoves and fancy wrought iron bed frames and lots of old cans from the turn of the century. Most of the stuff still in good, shape except for a few bullet holes. Now almost everything is gone. First all the bottles were picked up. Then all the purple glass was picked up. Then all the colored class got picked up. I suppose to someone new to the area it still has an attraction but to me when all the trailers aka. Mobile homes moved in and the new people worked to ‘upgrade’ what was there it just ruined it. When people started to move in around my cabin and I couldn't go out in the yard and take a leak that was enough for me and I left. I guess those people moving in close have been an asset in this case though.

I guess to relate this all back to GOLD I should tell a little about the Gold in Goldfield.
The gold is in a sulfide form and doesn't look like gold at all. It just looks like a dull yellowish brown. I had a friend there whose wedding ring was a setting of the gold her husband had found. High Grade in other words. It was not a very pretty ring and the only thing I could see of interest about it was that it was a sample of High Grade.
The first gold to be mined in Goldfield (actually Grandpa, just on the north side of Goldfield) was dug right up off the ground. Grass roots and all from the old timers stories. This was such high grade that they just put it in bags and stacked them up and posted men with shotguns on top to protect it. There a quite a few pictures of these stacks and it must have been really cool to see that much gold just stacked up. The vein started on the surface and went down at about a 30-degree angle. This was a huge thick deposit but was fairly confined to one area. It was SO rich that it brought in folks from all over the world that wanted to get in on it. The ground was staked all over that country (like a blanket) and everyone was promoting these claims and making a killing on them. This is where the real money was made in Goldfield and much was lost on the tables and in the cribs of the gals that served the miners and of course the saloons. There were quite a few of the hard cases that came to town to work the crowds and it must have been quite a job to keep them in check. In fact on one of my lots I found a token from a saloon in Sawtell, California that is good for one drink. The token is stamped with the name V. Erpp. This was Wyatt Erpps brother Virgil who came to Goldfield to help Wyatt out when he was Marshal in Goldfield.. This is an example of the type of thing that was laying on the ground in Goldfield in the early 70's. Occasionally today someone will find a token but there have been so many people looking that it is really rare today.
I had friends who dug most of the outhouse holes looking for bottles. It is amazing what you can find in a outhouse hole. Lots of bottles got tossed to keep the wife form finding it. Lots of guns and quiet a few poisin bottles. One friend found a beautiful cameo with gold bezel that is one of the finest I have ever seen. It must have dropped in and Who Wants to Go In and Get It???
Happy 4th everyone.

Rx Gold




Dr. Jones (06/30/00; 16:25:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 33047)
Mr Gresham, msg# 33045
I've been sensing the same thing. There seems to be a quiet confidence developing.

As a frequent observer, I've also noticed that our zeal over daily events seems to have been tempered by experience. We are more savvy now... battle tested from events you mentioned. The giddiness is being replaced with a balanced, street smart resolve.

Many thanks to yourself, FOA/TG, Aristotle, ORO, TC, MK and the insightful, eloquent posters on this forum who daily foster that resolve.

Keep riding, esteemed knights.

dj

Leland (06/30/00; 16:19:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 33046)
ANOTHER Interview With Sheikh Yamani
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000154642417163&rtmo=aqBXu6qJ&atmo=YYYYYYbp&pg=/et/00/6/30/tlyama30.html
For weekend reading value only.

Mr Gresham (06/30/00; 15:34:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 33045)
A Quiet Forum
The forum was very quiet this week, even in the presence of a decent POG uptick that would have excited us more in earlier months.

Should I take this as a positive contrary indicator?

What I imagine is that, someday, when gold makes its steady or sudden upward re-pricing in FRNs, the forum will take it in confident stride, having burned out our "youthful enthusiasms" in the "early years" of WA, Y2K, and GS conspirators. We will have "earned our spurs" as seasoned investors, as much as any can be while choosing an asset that hedges against Titanic economic upheavals. In a world in which "all things are made new" in the twinkling of an eye, we hew to the old, joining with 98% of humanity through 99% of its history, despite the doubts swirling around and through us as inhabitants of America.com

Thank you for your steady and re-affirming companionship here, all.


TownCrier (06/30/00; 15:27:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 33044)
They were YAWNING at COMEX today
Total trading volume of gold futures contracts was only 12,000. As we cautioned before, you'll want to steel your nerves against the prospects of pricing volatility that can be introduced in light of such low volume in this market that provides the means for gold's price discovery. Such effects and potential price swings on gold contracts (derivatives) are viewed by many as a corruption and an affront to the true stability of the underlying physical market of real supply and real demand for the metal. What better demonstration of the mere derivative nature of this market is there than the fact that on this last delivery day for physical positions on the June contract only 6,181 contracts-worth of metal changed title of ownership, whereas throughout the course of COMEX trading during the life of this particular contract, open interest at on time reached as high as 90,000 contracts and many hundreds of thousands of trades ("bought" and "sold") took place as intermittant all-cash operations in the meanwhile. If the "shorts" are more aggressive than the "longs" -- even though they always match each other at one-to-one -- then the price can be driven lower until the longs capitulate, at which point the shorts can easily cover without a price runnup.

TownCrier's bottom line: Don't play a game that was not created to favor gold advocates. (Unless, of course, you have a penchant for the excitement and hard knocks of pure gambling with short fuses.) Use the current situation to your full advantage and acquire the metal at artificially low prices as your budget allows. Now, if only we could get a similar manipulation scheme underway for beer, pretzels, Italian bread, T-bone steaks, charcoal bricquettes, lighter fluid, etc...

beesting (06/30/00; 15:08:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 33043)
FOREX Rates, ,,Some History,,,and Gold!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m3?u

Does anyone remember this,floating exchange rate definition?
Currencies strengthen or weaken based on a nation's reserves of hard currency and Gold.....etc..etc.

Well lets look at how a few of the nations who have recently (last few years)sold Gold from official reserves, current FOREX rate stands today June 30,2000 in relation to the U.S. which has not officially sold Gold reserves recently.

1 English pound = $1.516 U.S. dollars.
Down from around $1.65-$1.66 a little over a year ago.

1 Canadian Dollar = $.6753 U.S.dollars.
A while ago(years) it was $.91-$.94 to the dollar.

1 Australian Dollar = $.5983 U.S.dollars.Also down.

What do these 3 countries have in common?
Answer, the value of their local currency de-values in direct relation to official Gold sales.
Which means the people have to earn, or pay, more money to buy the same amount of stuff.
Now, if the United States took the advice of the official from the FED,last week, that wanted to sell all the U.S. Gold reserves, might some people call this talk "Treasonous?"

I had a short talk with about 5 American friends yesterday, who after my talk, all walked away without saying a word, with what looked to me like very blank expressions. By the way they introduced the topic....Gold!
This is about what I said:

"Shortly after the U.S.Government declared in 1933 that Gold could no longer be used in every day trade, they(The U.S. Government)revised the official price from $20.00 an ounce(a $20.00 Gold coin) to ""$35.00"" per ounce.
Although the American people could no longer trade Gold for stuff,Governments could and used Gold as money to balance international trade.
At the end of World War II the United States had the only infrastructure left standing to mass produce surplus stuff, and they did, and exported in quantity in exchange for Gold.
The U.S.accumulated many tonnes of Gold, between 1945-1965,,,,,Then the laws of supply and demand = price concerning Gold took control.

Gold started trading internationally over $35.00 per ounce. At first it was only a few dollars over, $36--$38 per ounce, then it went to around $70.00 per ounce.(early 1970's)
What effect did this have on the U.S.'s Gold reserves?

Countries exporting to the U.S. demanded payment for stuff in Gold, which was worth more than $35.00 per ounce in the exporting country, the U.S. was obligated to pay in Gold.
By Aug 1971 the U.S.'s Gold reserves had dropped from 20,000 + tonnes to the current 8,000 + tonnes, simply because the $35.00 FIXED Gold price was under the Worlds Floating price, at the time. Foreigners accumulated U.S. Gold at bargain prices.

President Nixon by decree'stopped the outflow of Gold from official U.S. reserves in Aug. 1971.(My friends all left at this point, no longer interested in what I was saying.)

Do we have the same scenario today we had in the late 1960's? An artificially low, set price of Gold, causing Gold to leave U.S. shores?
By the looks of Gold exports(Special thanks to Sirs TownCrier & Elwood)we may have the same thing happening(since Nov.1999-to present what seems to be a much larger amount of Gold exports than normal leaving the U.S.)
We watch together....beesting.





TownCrier (06/30/00; 14:19:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 33042)
BLOOMBERG: U.S. Isn't Propelling Global Growth
http://quote.bloomberg.com/pgcgi.cgi?T=markets_newsfeat99.ht=&ptitle=EMU%20Top%20Stories&touch=1&s=AOVzZFBVVVS5TLiBJ
With growth accelerating in Europe and Asia (sans Japan), Michael Hartnett, senior international economist at Merrill Lynch & Co says "The world is a much safer place these days. The global economy can cope with a U.S. soft landing."

In a report, the OECD said Europe's outlook is "better than at any time in since the late 1980s," and predicted year 2000 growth at 3.5 percent, up from 2.3 in 1999.

And while Hong Kong and Malaysia were both cited with over 10% growth rates in the first quarter, Bloomberg reported that the situation in Japan is all fluff and no stuff..."Japanese officials told the New York Times last month that the country's Economic Planning Agency manipulated the GDP figures to make them look better in advance of last week's elections." The government is expected to announce an increase in new spending of 4 trillion yen later this year.

Leland (6/30/2000; 12:11:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 33041)
Daily Indicators From Alaron...Gold is in an "Upward Mode"
http://www.alaron.com/research.htm
GOLD THE TRADING RANGE WAS 4.90 AND ITS’ FIVE (5) DAY
MOVING AVERAGE IS 4.40.

GANN ANGLES INDICATE THE MARKET IS IN AN UPWARD MODE . A MOVE
BELOW 282.30 WOULD REVERSE THE DIRECTION OF THIS MARKET. THE
NEXT UPWARD GANN LINE IS AT 292.60.

VOLATILITY AS MEASURED BY THE VHF IS NEUTRAL - . (WATCH)

SILVER THE TRADING RANGE WAS 9.0 AND ITS’ FIVE (5) DAY
MOVING AVERAGE IS 5.7.

GANN ANGLES INDICATE THE MARKET IS IN A DOWNWARD MODE. A MOVE
ABOVE 523.00 WOULD REVERSE THE DIRECTION OF THIS MARKET. THE
NEXT DOWNWARD GANN LINE IS AT 498.15.

VOLATILITY AS MEASURED BY THE VHF IS VERY LOW . (WATCH)


schippi (6/30/2000; 11:50:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 33040)
POG Chart in terms of World Currencies
http://www.SelectSectors.com/pog.gif
5 day forecast remains Up.


Henri (6/30/2000; 11:37:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 33039)
Steve H
You said
SNIP
You can clearly see that the equal protection tact lost in this case. It should have been fought with the Federal Constitution, imo, because when a State lacks a right in its own Constitution, the Federal Constitution then confers that right.
UNSNIP

The US Constitution guarantees acknowledged "rights of man" it does not confer them.


SteveH (6/30/2000; 10:56:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 33038)
Tedw
Ted,

The California case of which you speak (I found it) discusses several issues that I would like to address.

First, apparently California doesn't have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Why the Plaintiff's attorneys argued an equal protection claim that weapons were not being equally treated instead of a Second Amendment claim is beyond me.

"...This fundamental right plaintiffs locate in article 1, section 1 of the California Constitution, which provides: "All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and
protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy." If plaintiffs are implying that a right to bear arms is one of the rights recognized in
the California Constitution's declaration of rights, they are simply wrong. No mention is made in it of a right to bear arms. (See In re Rameriz (1924) 193 Cal.
633, 651 ["The constitution of this state contains no provision on the subject."].) Moreover, "[i]t is long since settled in this state that regulation of firearms is a
proper police function." (Galvan v. Superior Court (1969) 70 Cal.2d 851, 866.) We reject any suggestion that the regulations at issue here impermissibly infringe
upon the right to defend life or protect property guaranteed by the California Constitution."

Next,

The State of California claims that their compelling interest in an Assault gun ban has two points of interest. First is the interest of the state to squelch events such as the San Ysidro McDonald's shooting over 20-years ago, and the Cleveland Elementary School shooting more recently. They claim that drive-by shootings are more rampant by gangs. There solution is to limit assault rifles. On the citizen's side they claim that their right is for hunting and target guns. This is what they have to accomplish in being fair to the right of reasonable police power and to the right of the Californian citizen to keep and bear arms for hunting and recreation.

You can clearly see that the equal protection tact lost in this case. It should have been fought with the Federal Constitution, imo, because when a State lacks a right in its own Constitution, the Federal Constitution then confers that right.

The case seems to infer that the police will be there to protect citizens from crazed shooters with assault rifles. They miss the point. In both shootings above, were one or more involved law-abiding citizens equipped with a concealed handgun they may indeed have stopped both incidents and others like them from becoming newsworthy events.

The State of California legislature and court system would appear to be on a mission to deny the US citizen's right in California of keep and bearing arms for self-defense.

Lastly, to ban assault weapons, which are the most likely weapon to be protected by the last US Supreme Court case (US v Miller, 1937) on the Second Amendment is again highly suspect. There the court held that since they couldn't determine if the gun in question was one that the militia (all of us would use) to defend the state, they couldn't really make a decision. Assault weapons are the bread and butter of the Second Amendment. This case needs to be refiled under a Second Amendment claim, but it would likely take it to the Appellate level or higher for a proper decision.

This case was improperly defended, probably because the Plaintiff's lawyers wanted a quicker route to justice. Now they may not be able to overturn this easily. Assault weapons in the hands of criminals and crazed persons are best met by the same in the hands of law-abiding citizens. California is missing the boat on gun issues, imo.

USAGOLD (6/30/2000; 9:50:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 33037)
Today's Gold Report: A comforting thought as we go into the July Fourth celebration of Liberty.
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
6/30/00 Indications
 Current
 Change
Gold August Comex
289.50
-1.20
Silver July Comex
5.02
+0.02
30 Yr TBond Sept CBOT
97~23
+0~07
Dollar Index June NYBOT
106.18
-0.38


Market Report (6/30/00) Gold spent a quiet night overseas and
then opened lower in New York. Traders are saying there might be
some book squaring in advance of the long holiday weekend, but
beyond that there was not much in the way of gold news this
morning.

During the past week, a report by Sarah Marani surfaced on Reuters
in which it was reported that two central bankers speaking at the
conference -- Herve Ferhani of the Banque de France and Peter
Zoellner of the Austrian Central Bank, -- publicly endorsed the
use of gold as an asset whose time has come for the world central
bank reserves.

With the bond issues from the United States going into retrograde
(presumably due to the upcoming $2 trillion budget surplus over
the next ten years), Ferhani alluded to the use of gold to replace
Treasuries: "One factor which has affected capital markets is the
possibility of a dearth of credit risk free assets.If the risk
appetite of central banks has not increased then this move to risk
free paper may have to be rebalanced... there is the question
whether gold could be part of the solution." Then he added a
statement that goes to the heart of the matter with respect to the
gold market. Presumably answering a question on France's
conservative gold lending policies, he said, "Why should gold
holders lend to someone whose aim is to depress its value?" ( Ed.
Note: Now there's a thought every gold mining executive should
lock in his or her briefcase and transport home -- supplant the
words "lend to" with "borrow from.")

Peter Zoellner agreed saying: "Gold in its original form is not
somebody else's liability so it is practically risk free. The
buyback programmes of some governments could lead to a lack of
assets of highest credit quality," he said. "To the public gold is
something real with a physical existence, unlike abstract foreign
exchange." (Ed. note: Note the use of the words "original form" as
opposed presumably to "derivatives form.")

The French and Austrian central banker's comments bring to light
the divisions within Europe on gold policy. The barb on lending
obviously was aimed at fellow members of the European Union, but
which ones? All in all, the comments by these two gentlemen echo
through the gold market. Between a renewed interest in holding the
metal in official reserves and the inflationary bias building in
the world economy, it seems the whole tenor of the gold market
changed for the better over the past two weeks.

A comforting thought as we go into the July Fourth celebration of
Liberty. Have a nice holiday weekend and we will see you back here
next week.

An Invitation:

I would like to invite those who take an interest in the type of
analysis read here to give our newsletter a try -- News & Views:
Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and
Precious Metals. This month we focus on oil and inflation. Many
analysts and investors think there very well may have been a
fundamental shift in economy that could favor the gold market and
hammer the equities and dollar market. These opinions from various
sources are covered in some detail in the upcoming July issue.
Along with the latest issue of News & Views, you will receive our
Gold Almanac 2000 which offers fundamental background on the
yellow metal. The theme of this year's Almanac is wealth
preservation and one of the key articles is how those in the
1970s -- a decade many are comparing to the present -- not only
survived double digit inflation, but prospered. The package is
offered at no cost or obligation. You can call Marie at
1-800-869-5115 to request the newsletter and Almanac or
click on link above.

Henri (6/30/2000; 8:30:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 33036)
Sir ORO SA gold debt trap
Thanks for your reply on the new SA credit facility. Yes, the gold debt trap is what I was thinking about. If the gold debt trap develops it will probably come about in typical central bank manipulation style. First get them to actually use the US$ and Euro facilities leaving them with only the gold facility to buy their way out of repayments.

I wonder if this paper new gold debt has found its way to the paper markets yet. If SA does not borrow any gold, then they cannot be required to repay it. This, in my mind, raises a question of the quality of such a paper debt if it has already been sold. If you are given a credit line as a creditworthy borrower, but do not actually use it, can it be considered a marketable debt note? Since there is no actual gold debt, the repayment of it is a ludicrous assumption. Caveat emptor

Henri (6/30/2000; 8:15:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 33035)
Yet another incident where the Attorney General has impeded investigations of Chinese access to Classified info
http://specter.senate.gov/reportp.htm
A read of this executive summary, gives the distinct impression that this administration has aided a process that has placed the entire civilized world in grave danger. I'd say its about time for some changes.

Leland (6/30/2000; 8:11:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 33034)
Possibly the Most SPECTACULAR Event for the Fourth of July Celebration...
http://www.bergen.com/index.html
It's called "Operation Sail", and if anyone has better
links to follow the event, please share.

Henri (6/30/2000; 7:42:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 33033)
Sir Leland
I wish you joy on your recent acquisition and salutations to you as well.

Henri (6/30/2000; 7:38:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 33032)
Last run-up in POG
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/60
It seems that this last rise in the POG coincided with the expiration of options on the June contract month (see link).

Does anyone have any info on the number of contracts that were called for delivery? After the April delivery calls, I expected that the quality of the basis for delivery on subsequent months would be degrading. In other words, if someone says they can deliver gold outside of warehouse stocks, one might question the source of such allegedly available gold. I expect all the forward delivery contracts by the mines are now being closely held and that they will not be used for "gambling" in the paper markets.

SteveH (6/30/2000; 7:32:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 33031)
Tedw, please post link...
http://www.currencyexchange.net/articles_feb00.html
Good article on gold.

Hill Billy Mitchell (6/30/2000; 6:30:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 33030)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: June 29, 2000

Rates for Wednesday, June 28, 2000

Federal funds 6.50

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 5.81
10-year 6.11
20-year 6.33
30-year 5.97

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (.53%


Hill Billy Mitchell (6/30/2000; 6:26:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 33029)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: June 28, 2000

Rates for Tuesday, June 27, 2000

Federal funds 6.56

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 5.83
10-year 6.10
20-year 6.31
30-year 5.95

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (.61%)


wolavka (6/30/2000; 6:10:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 33028)
watch wheat
Watch wheat

HI - HAT (6/30/2000; 4:12:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 33027)
andrew the kiwi.............Frustration Cure
Total Responsibility
Not in any way to trivialize the situation, but as regards your down the money. So what, that's why they put erasers on pencils.

The only thing we have any control over, is our own minds.

If one does not take total responsibility for ones circumstances, the light at the end of the tunnel, will always be a Gorilla with a flashlight.

tedw (6/30/2000; 4:08:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 33026)
Constitution suspended in California
http://www.usagold.com

Im not kidding.

The California Supreme Court ruled that 120 more types of
guns can be banned. See article at www.worldnetdaily.com.
Ak's can now be banned.

If the NRA et al cant win on issues like this, then you can kiss your 2nd amendment rights goodbye.Perhaps they can win in Federal Court, but when you see a US Supreme Court endorse infanticide and rule against free speech, it doesnt leave you with a lot of confidence.

Perhaps the time is coming when the only thing left to us will be what was left to our forefathers: an appeal to arms.


wolavka (6/30/2000; 4:00:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 33025)
buy dips
Gold has life; Wednesdays action removed alot of resistance.

Grains and gold...

andrew the kiwi (6/30/2000; 3:26:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 33024)
total frustration
the heading says it all really, when you have been in the au sector for many years, and seen over 100,000 dollars lost, you quite often get to the point of no return. I know many of you will be in the same camp as me, but if you dwell on it too much you can get quite upset. all I can really say is that god is still on my side, and I wish the rapture would hurry up and happen (he will come as a thief in the night,).

andrew the kiwi (6/30/2000; 3:07:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 33023)
(No Subject)
test

SHIFTY (6/30/2000; 0:08:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 33022)
Bonedaddy
Bonedaddy (06/29/00; 22:08:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 33019)
The price stays in a tight range...

I feel you are correct.

Its looking like my extra purchase in preparation for Y2K were a bargain!

I never had any regrets for having been prepared for Y2K , and would do it all again if I felt the need!

My hens are laying good, and with the manure I have some nice tomatoes and stuff!
I can barter with eggs, but cant seem to get any golden ones. I think I need geese for those!
LOL


I may get the last laugh yet!

$hifty




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