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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/29/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Peter Asher
(4/29/2000; 23:07:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 29607)
ThaiGold (4/29/2000; 21:00:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29602)
Delete everything before Paragraph #3 "for the most part" and I see this as an HOF nominee.
Peter Asher
(4/29/2000; 22:57:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 29606)
Why they HAD to confiscate the Gold!
& Harley Davidson (4/27/2000; 17:42:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 29457)
When you read the Executive Order of 1933, you notice that the key concern stated was the "hoarding" of Gold whilst in the middle of a "Banking Emergency." Certainly the 3 ˝ years following Black October had driven a multitude of those who still had assets into storing them in gold. Obviously this value was not available to be "loaned" out to others to use for capitalization, and certainly not for expansion via fractionalization. So here you had a full fledged depression in an expanding industrial age, requiring tool-up, inventories and payrolls to bring goods to market. This need for operating capital could only be achieved by liquefying the economy back into existence by way of credit.
When people had their gold cashed out into dollars, some may still have rushed right back home and put the dollars under the mattress, but certainly a lot were deposited in the bank and thus facilitated the resuscitation of the system. Now, I'm not saying there weren't additional motivations. I believe Roosevelt was already planning the dollar devaluation to 1/35 of an ounce and wanted the government to be the entity acquiring the additional purchasing power. Also, he needed to increase the nation's foreign exchange potential with hard asset money.
Nowadays the amount of gold hoarded in relation to the money supply is so much smaller that the printing press is the only viable credit machine. BUT, doesn't that raise the possibility that the motive for holding down gold now is an attempt to prevent the re-occurrence of the very situation that existed in 1933?
Re -- Harley Davidson's post: Notice that in Nepal, the storing of one's savings in gold and the existence of a society that spurns credit go hand-in-hand!
Peter Asher
(4/29/2000; 22:55:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 29605)
ThaiGold (4/29/2000; 19:00:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 29598)
I think when gold is referred to as the "ultimate asset," there is an understanding that the other PMs are similar. The difference is that platinum, and more so palladium, are far less liquid and more susceptible to industrial supply/demand fluctuations. Apples and oranges are of course perishable and so, on a long term basis, is the structural component of real estate. Also, while many folks have lost their home or ranch for lack of property tax cash, I'm sure no one ever lost their gold for want of storage charges; they just sell off a fraction. Not so in undividable real estate.
Actually, as many here know, we also live on a country property with river and stream water, game, and the ability to grow food. While we unfortunately do not own it free and clear, we have often survived financial emergencies by selling timber and by land partition. For centuries, the holders of land have survived taxation disaster by the ability to sell of f some of their acreage and keep ahead of confiscation. This is finite of course, and eventually one generation has its back up against the wall of minimum lot size. Timberland is the ultimate homestead, because you have a perennial crop of 7% annual biomass growth, absolute inflation parity in the long term, and additional appreciation faster than the cost of living, as society out harvests the supply and legislates more into protection. And, regarding silver: Good point about the absence of political intrigue, but there is the problem of tonnage when confronting the storage of life-saving's sized value.
Now, about the 1933 confiscation and why they didn't need the silver: I will be coming right behind this post with a separate one for that part of the subject.
Sippin
(4/29/2000; 22:53:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 29604)
Agree with ThaiGold mostly
I agree and have had the same beliefs that the U.S. system of free markets and constitution is the MAIN reason it will stay above all of the rest of the world. As bad as it seems that socialistic agendas seem to be creeping into the U.S. system of government,the U.S. is still far, far behind socialist systems in Europe and dictator, communism systems around the globe.
I find it frusterating to hear people state that Europe is so much more progressive than the U.S. and therefore should be emulated. It will only be when the american populace is hoodwinked into believing that socialism is better than our current system that the U.S. will slide to even or subpar of it's competitors.
I doubt that the U.S. is in any way worse off systematically than Europe or others as far as economic concerns.
I do believe a bear market in the U.S. will take down all the rest of the worlds economy with it and there will be nowhere to turn in a crisis. Except gold that is and possibly U.S. bonds and T-bills.
I have read Harry Browne's ( He predicted the big gold move in the 70's and then went with stocks in the 80's.) version of a portfolio and it goes like this.
25% Aggressive Growth Mutual Funds ( For a prosperous economy)
25% T-Bills ( For recessionary times)
25% Long term U.S. Bonds ( For depressionary times)
25% Gold ( For inflationary periods)& depressionary possibly.
Despite the seemingly contradictory allocation of assets, this system has a 10% average growth rate yearly over the last 30 years. (This during times when the U,S. went thru virtually every scenario possible.) And a very small turbalance from year to year. Very little in the way of massive swings one way or the other. His philosophy is simple. The future can not be predicted and therefore why risk your hard earned money when you can have an almost sure thing. Dispite his stellar record of predictions, he has stated he was incredibly lucky to have been fortunate to have been right and sees this as a losers game.
By using this system, many would hold much more in their 25% allotment of Gold than if they just had gold only in their portfolio from 20 years ago.
Harry Browne's system does not say to just have a safe portfolio as described above, but says you should at least have this as a basis and then have a seperate portfolio for speculation.
I just found his opinions very pertinent and thought I would share it. Thanks for reading.
ThaiGold
(4/29/2000; 22:33:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29603)
Soaring Gold Exports: A New Theory
Attn: MK/USAGOLD (4/29/2000; 20:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29601)
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4-29-2000
To: MK/USAgold
To: ALL
Your post of USAGOLD (4/29/2000; 20:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29601)
contained the following excerpt, which I'd like to comment upon, to ALL
in the Forum:
[MK-Quote]
The most astonishing development reported here are the ones by TownCrier on gold
exports. Someone's taking delivery of all that gold and I don't think they're
complaining about the price. They're just taking delivery and getting ready to
ride out whatever storms might be headed our way. Who knows -- it might even be
Europeans taking delivery of that metal. It wouldn't surprise me -- for
Switzerland, it could amont to "in one door out the other." The only thing that
changes is the official numbers. Now wouldn't that be interesting?
[MK-UnQuote]
Myself, have a suspician that these soaring Gold Exports are nothing more
than Big-Oil Monies (US$ dollars) being converted into solid Gold, thru
the various (totally legal) mechanisms of the markets, COMEX etc etc etc,
that we and (sometimes) GATA may be misinterpretinmg as "Manipulation".
I mean, they have begun to soar, just as their (higher-priced) oil revenues
have soared of late and of previous times. Doesn't this sound plausible.?.
If we NutShell the "Oil-for-Gold" scenario(s) they boil down to:
(1)Oil Producer has Oil in-ground. Prefers to have Gold in Pocket.
(2)GoldMine Producer has Gold in-ground. Prefers to have US$ for Expenses.
(3)Big-Banks have US$ in Books. Prefers more. more. more.
(4)Oil/Bank/GoldMine go thru incredulous shenanigans to accomplish swap.
(5)Oil gets Gold direct from mine.
(6)GoldMine gets US$ direct from Bank.
(7)Bank gets more more more (interest and fees) from both plus principle.
Now then, if one looks at this simply, or even complexly, as Another or FOA
have, it boils down to alot of Gold *exported*, and alot of Oil *imported*. And
alot of -more-more-more (US$) circulating/expanding/loaning inside the Banks.
To wit: Money growth, inflation (TheStranger--are you absorbing this?) huge
oil imports and equally bloated Gold Exports.
In a very simple-minded (mine) scenario, wouldn't it be easiest for GoldHungry
oil-producers to (in many cases) just do the "exchange" via COMEX futures, and
take delivery, thru (legally) (maybe not-so-BadGuys-Goldman Sachs, et al) as
their prefered (big enuf) broker. With the CashStarved GoldMines being the
Opposite Parties to these massive Futures/forward contracts.
I have a hunch, that much of what we perceive as "manipulation" is simply the
(legal) market forces doing their thing. But there's another aspect that I
also believe is entering the big picture, that indeed IS manipulation:
Consider this: If YOU were an OilShiekah, with vast haordes of already-Gold
at hand, and you wished to buy (exchange US$ income revenue) even more of
your favorite flavor Gold Bars, wouldn't you (wisely):
(a) Use current vast-gold-reserves to "short" the markets, to:
(b) Drive the price of Gold even lower, then:
(c) Buy your next newest hoarde (periodically) at a much lower POG, after having
(d) Also closed out your "shorts" too, at your driven-down bottom target, and:
(e) Use Goldman Sachs (et al) as your legal/fiduciary/agent/broker, to:
(f) Make it look as if the US Govt aka ESF was the "manipulation" culprit.
Are we (irate/disappointed) GoldBugs perhaps seeing something that doesn't
really exist.?. Is GATA going to discover this misconception eventually, or
will several CongressPeople going to explain it to them, as they usher them
to the door. And as they do absoloutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g about GATA's and our
incessant accusations of unfair POG manipulation.?.
Please do not think me anti-GATA. I'm not. I welcome whatever they can do to
expose/thwart/stop the manipulation(s). But I'm a realist, and suspect that
the scenarios that we/they invision may not, probably don't, exist whatsoever.
Or, if they do exist, will be easily stonewalled/denied/covered up by the
entities that are (wink wink) (I did not have S...) up to their ..er...ears in
it for political/economic reasons. Hence, are unstoppable, by anyone.
These are my feeble thoughts on the issue, and I may repost mid week to perhaps
stimulate some in-depth anaylsis and discussion amongst the Forum.
Cordially,
ThaiGold...
==========================================================
Comments Welcomed from anyone/anywhere/anytime.
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
===========================================================
ThaiGold
(4/29/2000; 21:00:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29602)
US$ Dollar Abandonment
Attn: FOA/Trail Guide OA (4/26/2000; 7:45:41MDT - Msg ID:19)
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4-29-2000
To: FOA/Trail Guide
Your latest post in the Trail Guide Archive entitled:
[FOA (4/26/2000; 7:45:41MDT - Msg ID:19) The Euro is part of this trail!]
was interesting to read, well written, and one that everyone in the Forum
shouldn't miss.
Having said that, please allow me to respectfully submit my-take; that:
"It just ain't gunna happen." Just like Y2K didn't happen. Does anyone
seriously think that the awesome powers of the US Government would ever
allow the US$ dollar to decline from the world's stage.?. I think not.
Perhaps, you Sir, (living in EUROland [?] ) are possibly too close to
the forest to see through the trees.?. What I mean is, for the most part,
most of the European Union countries are basically ..uh...er... Socialist
welfare states, always have been, and always will be, with the possible
exception of one (Austria's) current "renegade" new government.
And there's no-way socialism nor societies and economies based upon it's
bogus premis can ever out-perform a non-socialist peoples in productivity
and stable wealth and currency. Of course, some, indeed many, would argue
with my presumption that the USA is not a non-socialist welfare state. But
it has been/is head and shoulders above Europe, in that respect.
And let us consider most of ASIA, perhaps the most non-socialist and most
hard-working peoples on the present earth. China notwithstanding.!. They
can, and do, out-productivize all of us, much to our chagrin. For example,
it is virtually impossible to purchase anything in the local hardware
store, clothing store, computer store, and widget store that is not made
in (and imported from) China, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, or Thailand.
India and the Phillipines as well. Soon, add to that list, Vietnam. And
of course, Japan and South Korea might as well be considered States 51 & 52.
My point is, that these emerged-nations will not abandon the US$, because
the US$ is the fiat-script their *customers* (USA's mega-consumers) receive
in their "paychecks". Do you or anyone else foresee the USA workers ever
getting paid in EUROs.?. I don't. My pension is contracted/denominated in
US$, not EUROs. My investments are denominated in US$. My debts are too.
And I see no-way they can ever change that, in my lifetime. Nor in yours.
Hence, when the Arab, Iranian, Venezuelan, Mexican, Dutch, British and
insundry other oil producers sell their product, they will be offered US$
in settlement, take-it-or-leave-it. And they'll take it.!. As always.
Just as-do the myriad Asian widget factories. There's an old saying, that
Cash Talks Loudly. US$ Cash. Very Loudly. Everywhere.
Sure, they (OPEC etc) can if they wish, quickly redeem it via any number
of manipulation schemes into cheap-Gold, upon world markets. As they are
and have been doing for decades. And will continue to do. For decades.
US$ not "as good as Gold.?." ... Did you ever view the movie "Killing Fields"
wherein a distraught Cambodian father gives his young son to the hero,
to be hopefully carried away to the safety of a Thai refugee camp.?. The
father gives to the hero, advance payment for the son's journey: Was it
Gold.?. Nope. The father unrolled his stash of US$ 20 bills. Common there
especially when the Khmer Rouge used metal detectors to find hidden wealth.
(That was in 1973). It's probably alot the same nowadays as well.
The US$ means alot more to people-people, common people, than it apparently
does to currency traders and speculators. Can you imagine a re-filming of
the Killing Fields, where the father would have a stash of (yet-unprinted)
EUROs instead.?. Or a bookkeeping entry in his hedge-ledger instead.?.
Let us get-real about the future. The US$, whether inflated, deflated, or
hyper-bad-mouthed, by those socialist-agendized EUROpeans, will always be
the *currency* of choice. Maybe not the *money* of choice (only Gold and
Silver can ever be that) to the world's *productive* peoples and the world's
inherently distrustful-of-any-government citizens. From Laos to Lithuania.
So let us not make-lite of the US$. And certainly, if we do, let us not
kid ourselves that a new-fiat, issued by an undisciplined rag-tag, basically
non-productive socialist region of the East, could somehow surpass it's (US$)
proven track record throughout all-important Asia, as well as North and
South and Central America. Throw in Africa, for good measure. And the USSR.
(ooops, excuse me, I meant PSRR; Putin's Socialist Republic of Russia.)
Our host, MK has just posted the following sentence, that I find is most
true, and fitting for this discussion. Just tack the word EURO into it:
[MK-quote]
In these types of discussions though let's not lose sight of the true issue
-- that paper assets -- stocks, bonds, cds, fannie maes -- are assets 100%
dependent upon the performance of some individual or institution to maintain
their viablility, and probably what's more they depend upon something in which
they have very little say -- the value of the currency underneath them.
[MK-unquote]
Has EUROPE ever proven to be "an institution to maintain viability" of
anything.?. I think not. Hence, by Michael's own definition, the EURO is
bogus, along with every other non-viably-maintained scrap of paper. Whereas
the US$ could be said the opposite, despite how much we all despise it.
Indeed, the EURO is in decline, and it's not a "contrived decline". If you
aren't "short" the EURO, you may be left standing at the US$/Gold station.
ALLLllll AAAaaaaBOOOoooooorrrrdddd.!. Toot Toot
Cordially,
ThaiGold...
==========================================================
Comments Welcomed from anyone/anywhere/anytime.
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
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USAGOLD
(4/29/2000; 20:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29601)
Assets, Liabilities, Bargains (and Videotape??). . .
Thai. . . you're right that any hard asset owned outright stands by itself -- an asset that does not depend upon someone else to retain its viability. It is just that gold is the king of hard assets higher in the food chain than even real estate -- another asset for which I have great respect. In these types of discussions though let's not lose sight of the true issue -- that paper assets -- stocks, bonds, cds, fannie maes -- are assets 100% dependent upon the performance of some individual or institution to maintain their viablility, and probably what's more they depend upon something in which they have very little say -- the value of the currency underneath them.
And related. . .
Schippi. . . Your graph shows quite a divergence. I've written about this as you might already know. Perhaps we, as gold advocates, should get away from looking to Europe as gold's saviour and then we'll stop being so hard on Europe (myself included). If we can accumulate gold at 20 year lows in the face of the greatest monetary expansion in a long time, it might be better to count our blessings than lament them. As Americans the strong dollar makes gold a good bargain. In most other currencies, gold is not such a bargain having appreciated in the face of inflationary pressures in most other industrial countries. The most astonishing development reported here are the ones by TownCrier on gold exports. Someone's taking delivery of all that gold and I don't think they're complaining about the price. They're just taking delivery and getting ready to ride out whatever storms might be headed our way. Who knows -- it might even be Europeans taking delivery of that metal. It wouldn't surprise me -- for Switzerland, it could amont to "in one door out the other." The only thing that changes is the official numbers. Now wouldn't that be interesting?
schippi
(4/29/2000; 20:01:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 29600)
XAU, Comex-Gold, US-Dollar Chart
http://www.SelectSectors.com/gldind.htm
This Chart shows the percentage increase in the US Dollar
and corresponding decline in Comex-gold and the XAU.
HI - HAT
(4/29/2000; 19:23:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 29599)
Thai Gold
With the whole tenor of your post, I rest my case, that we are reduced to living in a state of Fear that the Political anarchy we live under can confiscate, strip you of property, and otherwise completely invalidate you if you mis-step your function as a host for the States parasitical objectives.
ThaiGold
(4/29/2000; 19:00:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 29598)
Silver Confiscation
Attn: Peter Asher (04/25/00; 01:32:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 29297)
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4-29-2000
To: Peter Asher
Your 4/25/00 point is well taken, and is one mentioned in the Forum often.
[ie: that "physical gold is the only asset with value, which is not someone
else's liability".]
Few if any of us will disagree with it, nor with MK's good advice to buy it.
But, is Physical Gold the *only* asset with value but no liability.?.
I think not. What of Silver, Platinum, Palladium, Apples,
and Oranges. Wheat. Rice. Oil. Coal. CoalMines. And GoldMines.
And WhatAbout RealEstate...
Is not, for example, ThaiRanch, paid-for, wholly owned, fee-simple,
and self-sufficient, not an asset without market liability.?.
Sure, property taxes accrue, but does not one's PM's also
require a tad of overhead to retain ownership, safety, viability and
marketability.?. And lotsa commissions, taxes, etc when/if ever sold.
Can you drink them, as I can, crystal cold from my DeepWater Well,
or the flowing Creek.?. Can you eat them, as I can, the Fruits and
Veggies of my Land.?. Or the Game in it's forest, if need be.
Heaven-Forbid that I could ever bring myself to deprive any
one of them their Majestic wild lives nor their GodGiven habitat.!.
We GoldBugs often proclaim the Glitter of our Gold, it's warmth
and it's truth as incomparable. But isn't the Golden reflection
of the rising sun glittering across my pond every morning equally
wholesome.?. Awesome.?. Is Gold the only thing in life worth acquiring
for now, and the future well-being of a family or self.?.
Master Aristotle wisely explained to us his personal valuation of
a Gold 1 oz coin, as equivalent to a Year's Rent, at whatever price.
Is not a lifetime's rent-free (wholly-owned) abode equally so.?.
Can a fickle government deprive/confiscate my/your homestead
on a whim, without doing the same to an entire Nation's estate.?.
Is it not easier to target the Gold coins, of a hapless few.?.
In short, I believe there are alternatives. Ones that are *not*
incessantly manipulated into massive losses by Powers that we cannot
control, nor even discover whom/why/when they murkily contrive.
And I believe that it is essential, nay the obligation, of posters
here in this forum to see and hear and debate all sides of the Gold
and PM issue. Lest they make dumb mistakes as I did. In spades.
Is there a point, where some assets outweigh their supposed
liabilities.?. Would/Could a well-managed GoldMine be of that
category.?. Is a GoldMine not the *only* source of new Gold.?.
Will the owners/shareholders not be rewarded and partake of that.?.
Are they not frequently/regularly paid these dividends of wealth.?.
My Newmont shares do so. What of your/his/her/their, Kruggerands.?.
One last (serious) question to ponder, that puzzles me greatly:
In the FDR Confiscation Proclamation, (you posted earlier) it *mentions*
silver; but silver was apparently *not* confiscated.!. I'm wonder why.?.
Can you or anyone in the Forum shed some light on the Non-Confiscation
of Silver, back in the 1933 era.?.
And so, for those amongst us inclined toward "pre-1933" Gold coins,
wouldn't they be wise to possibly consider silver instead.?. Or even
perhaps, yuk, Silver Mining Shares...
Cordially,
ThaiGold...
==========================================================
Comments Welcomed from anyone/anywhere/anytime.
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
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HI - HAT
(4/29/2000; 18:37:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 29597)
Cavan Man Peter Asher Stranger The Road
At this point in the game, Capitolism verses Socialism is a semantic charade. The ruling operative forces have propagandized their respective countries masses of people into systems of "lawfully" mandated proceedures of wealth extraction. We are the slaves of the system. We are the systems property. The system will determine whats fair and reasonable for you to live on of the fruits of your labor after their take.
The road has arrived at Clintons and Blairs, "Third Way". The third way, is the fruition of Fabianism, which stipped of platitudes is really just a kinder, gentler Fascism.
It is immoral for the Thugs to take at gunpoint under the force of law the earnings of labor that has not been contractualy agreed too.
Leland
(4/29/2000; 16:33:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 29596)
"Security"
SAMCAM, you have an excellent question(s) about storage of
valuables.
In a recent newsletter, and I forget which one, the writer
suggested two or three home safes. Safe #1 should be easy
for an intruder to find. Safe #2, and #3 if there is one,
is recommended to be more remotely located.
Only a token amount would be stored in Safe #1, just enough to satisfy any culprits that they have found your "hiding
place".
To be sure, there is risk with almost any plan, this one
included.
Peter Asher
(4/29/2000; 16:32:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29595)
Cavan Man (4/29/2000; 10:20:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 29583)
You said: >>>>Just back from a ballet lesson with one of the kids and was thinking of our system of free
markets and capitalism vs socialism. While I disdain socialism and believe in capitalism and
free markets quite strongly, I see problems with both systems. In this country, I believe in many
ways capitalism and free markets have run amuck to the detriment of society. Each system does
have redeeming characteristics for organizing capital, labor and resources.<<<<<
Permit me to say again::
Peter Asher (1/5/00; 7:56:22MDT - Msg ID:22333)
Ross,CM Peramafrost
Since the fur is flying on this subject
this morning, I'm posting a part of an as yet incomplete article.
Fair exchange is not Marxism. Marx preached "From each according to his ability and to each
according to his need." That is properly called THEFT. When he said "Workers of the world,
unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains." he was talking about the power of the holders of
the means of production to command cheap labor by having cornered the market on land and
factories.
In response to that inequity, he came up with it's antithesis.
Many philosophers have perpetuated a massive lie by being idolized for a profound truth and
emotionally blind-siding their worshipers to the falsehoods. The reason that Capitalism and
communism have been the fodder for conflict is that each has within it an ethical truth and also a
means for exploitation. The follower of each, is impassioned with that ethical truth and resists
being aware of the harmful aspect.
HI - HAT
(4/29/2000; 16:19:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29594)
totalamatuer Licence
You are not getting an ansuer because probably nobody here has a clue. If the "licence" entails authoraties Knowing you have bullion, I for one will pass.
totalamateur
(4/29/2000; 16:00:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29593)
Bullion license?
I appreciate all the valuable input I've gotten from you who regularly post here.
Please help me with a question: I was recently asked if I had a 'bullion license'. What exactly is a bullion licence and how do you get one?
SAMCAM
(4/29/2000; 16:00:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 29592)
safe keeping again
Thank you very much for responding Sirs, HBM, Leland and Journeyman.
I am pressing on with this question because I think that aside from being in physical, the next important thing is protecting it.
Obviously bank safety deposit boxes leave a lot to be desired (at least in US). I wonder how are the handled overseas...
ORO, you once mention diversifying into other countries. May I pose this question to you too...
If you had to store gold in US and overseas, APART from bank safety deposit boxes or in the backyard (many of us leave in condos or apartments), HOW would you safekeep the physical?
One would think it has to be ON A PROPERTY, if you cant have your own ground in US or overseas, where else would you put it (if not in bank)?
If there are privately held safety deposit boxes (which i don't know of any at least in US) wouldn't they be subject to the same government decrees? And wouldn't it be more difficult to keep tabs on them, after all they are just a business. If they fold and go away its probably more difficult to track them down than a bank.
Peter Asher
(4/29/2000; 15:45:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29591)
$5 Indian (4/29/2000; 12:11:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29584)
If we ever get that "OneLiner wing" in The HOF, this is another cadidate:
Your >>>> At these daytrader schools every graduate
should get a hat and tee shirt that says, "I'm now a Financial Guppy". <<<<
Twice Discipled
(4/29/2000; 15:39:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 29590)
Constitutional Law Research
http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/constitution/
@SteveH and ALL
If you would like to become more educated on the Supreme Court cases dealing with issues we discuss here such as gold, it's monetary place, and it's protection (for SteveH), this site has annotations of cases segragated by article, section and amendment, etc.
Cavan Man
(4/29/2000; 15:24:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 29589)
PS: The Stranger
I do also believe that the Europeans will de-regulate and reform by degrees gradually in effect becoming more like "us". In turn, I think I can safely argue on MK's Forum that we are in fact on Von Hayek"s "Road" again, gaining socialist mass by degrees and incrementally or gradually.
The circle stays unbroken.
Kali Anastasi to all.
IHN......CCM
Cavan Man
(4/29/2000; 15:04:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 29588)
The Stranger
Sorry for the delay in responding Sir Stranger. It has been a full day of ballet, household hazardous waste disposal and vegetable selection for the Cavan Man family garden.
First, let me say, lest I be tarred with the wrong brush (for certainly I often deserve a tarring), I am very closely aligned with Libertarian principles. Yes, I am against "helmet laws". I generally vote a straight Republican ticket unless the candidate happens to be a real goniff (sp?). I'll vote for GWB even if I am convinced he's not any smarter than I am (pretty scary thought).
Generally speaking, although I strongly believe in calling something "what it is", I abhor labels. Labeling anything discourages understanding and is intellectually destructive. There's a fine line to walk eh? Therefore, I maintain that rather than debating the pros and cons of "socialism" vs "capitalism" in a vacuum, let us take a quick journey to Canada, Ireland or the UK. I'll bet you've visited these countries and many more. Having closely observed the quality of life in these three countries and having spent many hours speaking with the "natives", I am completely convinced that on the whole, the Irish, Canadians, Scotch, Welsh and English are relatively content and living productive and fulfilling lives. Now, here in the US, although we must set aside the growing disparity between the haves and have nots and the widening gap (exploited by pols) between the "classes" (yes, exist they do) for me to make this statement, I think the same could be said about Americans. My point is that each system of social, economic and political organization does have its positive and corresponding negative aspects.
Specifically, my impression of resource management or, environmental stewardship in the aforementioned countries is that, from the shower in the B & B to the petrol pump, our "socialist" friends do a better job of managing natural resources. I respect that. In my home I encourage it. Secondly, in these countries, and correct me if I'm wrong, citizens do receive some return on their investment (taxes) in the state operations while here in the US, the taxation (comparable to Europe if you tally ALL the taxes you pay I believe) is in fact a well known wealth re-distribution scheme with the intent of maintenance of political office. For example, if I lived in County Cavan, Ireland, my children would all be eligible to attend Trinity College based upon academic merit first and foremost. If they made the grades and made the cut then, financially, I would need to support their education as my income would allow and how they figure that I cannot tell you but, I believe it would be easier for me in that context to send my son to Trinity than it would be for me to send him to MIT or Cal Poly under similar circumstances.
I'm too long in the tooth here but it appears to be a slow day at the Forum so forgive me the space I've taken. Hopefully I have spoken well but if not, I would certainly appreciate the benefit of your wisdom and knowledge.
I enjoy your posts immensely.....CCM
YGM
(4/29/2000; 14:19:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 29587)
Trichet To head ECB.......
What Next!.................
Money Laundering
The Credit Lyonnais Scandal Goes On
Oh dear. Not the governor of the Bank of France.
PARIS - The governor of the Bank of France, Jean-Claude Trichet, said Friday he was facing investigation in the scandal surrounding the collapse of the bank Credit Lyonnais SA.
A Justice Ministry official said the governor had been notified by mail that he would be questioned about ''spreading false information'' concerning the government bailout of Credit Lyonnais and ''publishing inexact accounts'' during his tenure as treasury director of the Finance Ministry in the early 1990s. His department was responsible for supervision of Credit Lyonnais.
Mr. Trichet, who is scheduled to become the next head of the European Central Bank, said he had ''total confidence'' in the French justice system and that he placed himself at the full disposition of the investigating judge.
Being placed under investigation is not the same under French law as an indictment. It is an attempt to find the facts of a case, which can lead to an indictment if wrongdoing is uncovered. But the mere opening of an investigation can be devastating to a politician, as it was to Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the former finance minister who stepped down recently after a magistrate began to investigate him in another matter.
Prime Minister Lionel Jospin has sought to distance his leftist government from the taint of corruption surrounding French big business. But as governor of the central bank, Mr. Trichet enjoys total independence. Senior bank officials said they had ''entire confidence'' in him and would give him ''their fullest support.''
Mr. Trichet, 57, who became governor of the national bank in 1993, has been named to succeed the head of the European Central Bank, Wim Duisenberg, who is set to step down at an undisclosed date during his eight-year term. In European financial circles, it was generally expected that Mr. Trichet would take over after euro banknotes and coins replace existing national currencies on Jan. 1. 2002.
Mr. Trichet has been an ardent supporter of France's strong-franc economic policy and was one of the most influential figures in the creation of the euro, which has sunk to record lows against the dollar in recent weeks.
The investigation against Mr. Trichet was revealed as markets were closing in Europe for a long holiday weekend, making it difficult to assess what effect, if any, the development would have on the currency shared by 11 countries.
Mr. Trichet is an urbane intellectual, who likes to show visitors to his stately offices in the Bank of France an 18th-century painting in which all is apparently calm, but which in the detail shows a tremendous storm raging. He uses the painting to explain that a bank governor must always be ready for surprises even when things appear to be running normally.
Nevertheless, he said that even he had been ''extremely surprised'' that he had been caught in the widening investigation into the Credit Lyonnais scandal.
At the time of the events being studied by the investigating judge, Jean-Pierre Zanoto, Credit Lyonnais was state owned and heavily involved in several loss-making ventures.
These included a bizarre saga in which the bank squandered vast resources in lending to a since-indicted Italian financier, Giancarlo Parretti, to buy the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer movie studios. The bank had to pay $4 million to the U.S. government to avoid criminal charges in that affair, on condition that it cooperated in the criminal investigation in France.
The former president of the bank, Jean-Yves Haberer, has been under investigation since September 1998 over allegations of inaccurate financial reporting and misuse of business assets. The case has revealed the strong links that existed between the bank's state-appointed heads and the government during the administration of the late president Francois Mitterrand.
Founded in 1863 and nationalized after World War II, Credit Lyonnais was one of the world's largest banks, but it ran up massive losses in real estate and finance as well as in the entertainment field.
A series of state rescues cost the French taxpayer about 100 billion francs ($14 billion), which was authorized by the European Commission only on condition that the bank privatized itself and divested many of its assets. It is now smaller than rivals, such as Societe Generale SA, that it once aspired to dominate.
Mr. Trichet said he was surprised to learn of his investigation because his department at the Finance Ministry ''did everything within its responsibility to force this bank to change tack and to establish the facts incontestably in a particularly difficult situation.'' He said the treasury department had been ''the instigator of thorough investigations'' into the bank's affairs.
International Herald Tribune, April 29, 2000
Camel
(4/29/2000; 13:00:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 29586)
Test
Test
TheStranger
(4/29/2000; 12:23:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29585)
County Cavan Man
Indeed, CM, it is possible we shall see another "turn of the wheel" before we die. In fact, I am sure of it. The question is what direction the wheel will turn.
I am afraid I don't share your respect for socialism, however. I would love to see more of your thinking on this subject.
$5 Indian
(4/29/2000; 12:11:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29584)
ORO, I'm confused but not entirely clueless.
http://www.dailyreckoning.com
From your post yesterday, "The ECB will then start an "aggressive" move in rates to "fight inflation" and will create the most massive short squeeze ever seen."
Would that be the attack against the dollar, as to what its effect would be?
First they flood the world with Euros and the world gets so flooded that it starts throwing up. The Euro falls and THAT is Sun Tzu in our face "Deception is the way of the Warrior" They feign weakness and say "Go Fed go, print all the dollars you need the dollar is so strong and you can print more to make up for lost inflows, sure we'll sell gold down, whatever you jokers need to get your bozos elected." Then they decide to support the Euro by raising rates. They sell higher interest rate paying bonds to soak up those Euros so the holders of Euros go through the second phase of trust. First they trust holding the Euro currency. Then they trust holding high interest paying bonds that they bought with the Euros. This would lead to a flight from the dollar as it was replaced by those bonds paying a higher interest? I think without deregulation of European industries they will not be able to redeam Euros for competitively priced goods. The ECBs will burn themselves out trying to support the Euro without the fall of Socialist's "sap and control" policies towards industries that must lower wages and prices to compete with Asian production. Nobody can compete with China so China is the source of deflation the Europeans will have to import cheap foreign products to keep their workers from rebelling in the streets. "I just lost my job but this hammer now only costs $2.50. Put the bottles and rags away son I think we can make it." Europe then will have to import to offset falling wages exactly as the US has done. That is why the Democrates want China in the WTO so bad. Because if we don't import deflation, then there is no offset in the numbers to be released to counter the inflation pumping out because we can't competitively export with such a strong dollar. Time frames, time frames. When these transitions occur is the key, and who can pick up on the leading indicators.............Read to heed. The ORO knows.
I strayed from my original question which was: What are the ramifications of this massive short squeeze the ECBs will run and how would it effect gold? Do you have any prediction as to a time frame? And I never hold people accountable to their predictions as it is too much to ask.
===========================================================
If gold does go down because the dollar spiking up as the flight from the Euro is a panic, then gold should over-react and really drop hard until the shorts all pile on and get greedy with gold down. Then it blows up in their face as happens every time. That is what makes gold so exciting, these high spikes when they occur are massive. There were too many commercials net long and the Big Boys want those call options to ride out of the money and to expire worthless. If you want to loose a bundle in gold stocks just buy them. Want to make a killing in them then wait in cash and watch the charts for true bottoming patterns which everybody thinks already have occurred but haven't. Then pounce like the cat and buy in on the flat. Sell out 30 minutes into the morning after the big rally day. It's not bacon to be salted away, paper gold, Like that movie "Paper Moon" You have to sell these Big Boys back their own moonshine, and get out of town in cash. Then buy physical after some drift down has occurred. The art of sitting in cash is what those who profit in gold do. Then they buy in big and heavy at the right time. And MK will still make money as I say this because most people buy gold at the top and tomarrow will be no different. Goldbugs are just a different breed of lemming with its own built in screwed-up contrary set of emotions to deal with. I'm talking from experience after loosing so much buying in at the top. I already ran off the cliffs of Dover and hit the rocks. When I was rescued they said,"This is where the smart people buy in".
============================================================
Off Topic
Watching the antics on afterhours trading I realize that most of the small traders get eaten up by the bigger ones as they become a part of the financial food chain. I never saw such insanity. With the rally of Netzero after Qualcom bought a 10-12% stake in the free ISP company. Afterhours the crazies were paying 16.50 a share after it closed at 12.50. Sure enough it sank like an anchor the next day closing at 12.00. a 37% loss in a day. News spoof, they all follow it. Now RedHat is bid up to $32 in afterhours after MSFT breakup news came out. Closed at $25 Fri afternoon. This thing could burn some shorts on Monday but any child could see that it's still without a business model. The Ameritrade and E-trade are killy feeder pools. Financial bait tanks for the snapper blues that in turn get eaten by the big sharks. At these daytrader schools every graduate should get a hat and tee shirt that says, "I'm now a Financial Guppy".
If you are a little guy worried about such realities, just know that it's safe in your area of expertise where it's shallow and you can hide in the roots of safety (what you know). Every big game fish started out living in easy safer waters.
Cavan Man
(4/29/2000; 10:20:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 29583)
Stranger (Euro)
I believe the actual paper and coins will be introduced next year.
The dollar will still be an important reserve and holding going forward but less so in my opinion. It appears to me that "currency blocks" might be forming. International monetary structure has been in a continuous process of evolution since "the beginning". Why is it not possible and perhaps probable that you and I might see another turn of the wheel before we grow old and die? Why?
Just back from a ballet lesson with one of the kids and was thinking of our system of free markets and capitalism vs socialism. While I disdain socialism and believe in capitalism and free markets quite strongly, I see problems with both systems. In this country, I believe in many ways capitalism and free markets have run amuck to the detriment of society. Each system does have redeeming characteristics for organizing capital, labor and resources.
TheStranger
(4/29/2000; 9:53:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 29582)
CoinGuy, MK, and Towne Crier
I am sorry to disappoint you on all counts. I have not heard the GE rumor. Neither do I know for sure where to buy euro-denominated CDs.
I think I would go to the nearest international bank (and not a broker) to find the best CD rates. Even so, you may find the euro rates a little disappointing by American standards though European rates are trending upward.
By the way, you may wish to consider a money market fund. Money fund dividends rise with prevailing rates rather than locking you in. Does Europe offer such a thing? I don't know for sure, but I would ask. My days of taking on new clients are long over now, but I am flattered you sought my advice. Thanks.
MK - your #29523 captures the situation beautifully. Along with everything else, you write very well.
Crier - I don't think your #29517 was really addressed just to me, but I thank you for it just the same. My own, perhaps less-informed, view is that the dollar will be a much more important reserve currency than the euro as long as the euro nations are a socialism-prone, loose confederation of states. That may be a long time.
To this day, I still don't think anyone has ever actually held a euro in his hand. Yet the dollar is a readily accepted alternative to local currencies in day to day trade throughout the developing and lesser-developed world. That is a phenomenon which I suspect would be difficult to supplant, especially since the U.S. is the world's largest exporter, largest importer and has the world's largest absolute ballance of payments deficit.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your considerable insight.
Harley Davidson
(4/29/2000; 8:18:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 29581)
Henri, your msg#: 29578
Using the 50 cal. in leu of a chain saw to clear some forest?
Henri
(4/29/2000; 8:03:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 29580)
RossL Post # 29536
Just finished this article by Ted Butler you linked to. Excellant and short reading. Recommend to all to check this out. Last 2 days of the trading month as Ted says is time to put up or shut up. Longs give money shorts have to deliver gold.
The last two days of the April COMEX trading month? were thursday and Friday of this week. But volume of trading has been way low since options expiration day.
Black Blade
(4/29/2000; 6:48:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 29579)
Morning Wakeup Call (Weekend Post)
Source: Bridge News
Bridge Futures Outlook: May looks to be a tough month for gold
New York--April 28--With both Switzerland and the United Kingdom set to make gold sales in May, the month could prove tough for gold, with further price erosion expected. Gold prices dropped in the past week as the two countries firmed up their plans for dumping some of their reserves and the dollar strengthened. (Story .1275)
Black Blade: Gold on sale! Get now……These prices won't last! Come on down to CRAZY ED’S gold store! Ed must be crazy - He's practically giving it away!!! Hurry before he's committed!
Mexico Feb gold output down 37.3%, silver up 13.4% vs yr ago
Mexico City--April 28--Mexico's gold production in February fell 37.3% compared to a year earlier, while silver output rose 13.4% over the same period. Output for the entire mining sector fell 7% by volume compared with a year earlier, the National Statistics Institute (INEGI) said Friday. (Story .2166)
Black Blade: Expect to see more of this with other producer nations.
Black Blade: Gone Fishin’ ……….. Wonder if gold spinners will still work? Rainbows and Browns are beggin to be caught……..See you all Monday!
Henri
(4/29/2000; 6:41:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 29578)
Off to some target practice
Up here on the mountain there is an incredible series of echos generated from the discharge of an IMI Desrt Eagle .50
The 10ft muzzle blast is grim in the early morning mist as well. Don't worry I aim away from the trail. But d#mn it tends to give your location away.
oldgold
(4/29/2000; 6:39:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 29577)
Central Bankin Journal
has an intersting article on gold and the Washington Agreement.
http://www.centralbanking.co.uk/
Note that the author describles the European CBs as "gold-loving." Apparently there are substantial differences of opinion within the CB community on the role of gold in the financial system. The author of this article clearly falls into the anti-gold camp.
Just in case anyone has any doubts the article also makes it quite clear that the CBs are fully aware that their leasing activities are depressing the gold price.
Al Fulchino
(4/29/2000; 6:39:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 29576)
ET/Leigh
First off, Leigh, sorry for giving you that impression. I was assuming that at the time you hadn't made exact plans for the time of your visit. Next time... we go to the North End in Boston, where I know of some wonderful little restaurants. <smile>
ET, my brother in gold! We are opening a Thomas Kinkade Signature Gallery. We have the territory for a good part of New Hampshire and plan on rolling out three in the next three years. I am selling one business, God willing, on Monday. And have started looking for another and some rental property. And as it turns out the timing looks good to spend part of my proceeds in more metals
Best to all
Henri
(4/29/2000; 6:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 29575)
more Town Crier and backwardation
So if traditionally only 5% of any month's group of contracts actually ends up in the transfer of any gold by delivery demands and that gold usually stays in the market and is just offered up by the new player. Of what isgnificance is the calls for delivery of up to 50% of the COMEX stores in one delivery month? I'm thinking that this is a powerful move to take some of the chips off the table. If the gold is actually delivered and the bluffers fold, (those driving down the active month) and that gold is not recycled back into the market but is shuffled off to dissapper through the BIS, then the new hand is dealt out to a much reduced kitty. Competition for the physical left in that COMEX warehouse could become keen. The key will be whether those calls for delivery actually come to pass. Is there some way to follow up on this?
It seems to me that your presentation on how the hannibals can continue selling aggressively the active month to keep the gnomes from taking delivery has one flaw. When first call for delivery notice day comes, there is not much time left for that month's "active" status. Options expire and delivery calls are made. From that point on, if those intending to take delivery do not put the gold up in the form of another contract at the higher price in the next or following contract month, futures liquidity contracts (open interest declines?). Even before the actual delivery date, 1 month after options expiration, there is only a short window of opportunity to drive the futures price down to dissuade delivery calls. Three weeks at the most. Then if the delivery calls are not recinded, all hell breaks loose.
After that, April is no longer the "active" month and it becomes the present and not a "future". Spot or present will diverge from "futures" led pricing when the spot market supply becomes dire. COMEX warehouse drawdown and the delivery of foreign holdings in the US (exports?) are a continuation of the unfolding story. The last bellwheather was the Washington Agreement. The next will be exhaustion of COMEX warehouse reserves.
Leland
(4/29/2000; 6:06:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29574)
Doug Noland on the Bubble...
http://www.prudentbear.com/credit.htm
Last month the Seattle Times did an excellent exposition into the region's real
estate boom with a series of articles under the title, "Stock-market wealth is
driving a real-estate boom filled with bidding wars and multimillion dollar sales. Is
this madness, our new reality, or WILL THE BUBBLE BURST?
Pulled from this article, "The 64-year-old brick and wood house in the regal
Washington Park neighborhood has views to die for…The owner put it on the
market last month for $1,695,000 – more than double what the 3,080-sqaure-foot
house had sold for five years earlier. But that price was way off. After a quick,
intense bidding war, the owner is now waiting to close on an offer of more than
$2,600,000 - $1 million over the asking price."
Henri
(4/29/2000; 5:55:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29573)
Town Crier
Thank you for your kind treatment of my Faux pas. In the future I will look up the messages by the posters I cite to be sure they are given proper credit for their contributions. Now I see the brackets that defined RossL's contribution. I must say the latest format you adopted is much more clear as to when it is you that is writning and when you are quoting others.
As for the issue of backwardation in gold futures being a signal of something about to happen. I do think it to be a good marker...perhaps the triumph of gold bulls over the cadre of bullion banks and their ilk who wish to cap the price of gold.
As you mentioned the obvious bottom of the colluders would be an active month price of $0 but this could only happen if it is known that all the contracts left in that month were bare with no real gold backing them and no money either.
In a short squeeze scenario, the price shoots up so quickly (gap up $100) that the shorts will probably be in a loss position immediately and will have to cover at the higher price. Then the backwardation is initiated.
Henri
(4/29/2000; 5:43:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 29572)
totalamateur
You have mail
Leland
(4/29/2000; 4:43:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 29571)
By Dr. Kurt Richebacher....
http://www.prudentbear.com/guest.htm
What are we really looking at in the United States? A supply-driven new
paradigm economy or history's greatest financial bubble masking the
economy's bad fundamentals? Comparing present economic and financial
conditions with those in the late 1920s is a shocking exercise. Consider that
the U.S. economy in the 1920s had zero inflation for years, owing to high
productivity growth. It had a persistent surplus in savings and in foreign
trade, and it had strong profit growth in 1928-29. Not to forget moreover the
opulent cushions of liquidity that the corporations had accumulated through
stock issuance while the stock market was booming. Is this unprecedented
prosperity or unprecedented illusion?
SteveH
(4/29/2000; 4:39:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 29570)
Protecting gold
http://www.yrock.com/luntzsurvey/html/luntzFrame.html
People may want to ask Mr. Smith why his chain supported the Million Mom's march against guns.
Mr. Smith
osmith@starbucks.com,
While on the topic, some survey results:
Subject: Survey on violence and morality
The complete survey results can be found at:
It is the first extensive survey on morality and violence.
The survey showed that a majority of people understand the true reason for violence in America.
Four survey questions and results are as follows:
6. Now, which of the following do you think is a greater cause of youth
violence
and school shootings today? (I need you to choose only one)
42% The decline in quality time parents spend with their children
30% The violence they see and hear on television, movies, music and video
games
11% Access to guns
10% The lack of good role models
05% The failure of schools to promote civility and moral values
02% Don't know/Refused
7. Now, thinking about all the recent violence in our schools, which do you
think
would have a greater impact on reducing that violence?
77% Teaching children at a young age about right and wrong and respect for
human
life
12% Stricter discipline in our schools
10% More gun control legislation
2% Don't know/Refused
8. And which of the following do you think would have a greater impact on
reducing
gun violence in our schools?
84% Greater involvement by parents in the lives of their children
14% More gun control legislation
2% Don't know/Refused
9. The recent school shootings are an indication of the moral decline
occurring
in the United States today.
48% Strongly agree
32% Somewhat agree
10% Somewhat disagree
9% Strongly disagree
2% Don't know/Refused
These results show that only 9 - 14% of the people surveyed are in agreement
with the Clinton-Gore administration.
"...[W]hat are the motives of government in seeking information on who has a
gun, and what is its manufacturer's registration number? Those who want to
make
the case for the registration of all weapons should demonstrate, if they
can,
how such records would have prevented numerable crimes, or identified
numerable
criminals who got away. ..But some people's attitude toward them has got to
trace
to thinking of them as weapons against government tyranny." --William F.
Buckley
Leland
(4/29/2000; 4:15:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 29569)
Quote From John Hathaway....
http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/invest/funds/5291.asp?Printer
Last year, however, something else happened, and gold bugs loved it.
Consumer prices spurted 2.7% -- a near doubling of inflation, albeit to a
lesser rate than it was accelerating a decade earlier. This trend is itself
accelerating, however; for the 12 months ended in February, the CPI
jumped 3.2%.
That's not too scary -- but the trade deficit is, according to John
Hathaway, manager of Tocqueville Gold Fund (TGLDX), up 6.1% in the
12 months ended March 31. "If gold is going to go up by multiples of
hundreds of dollars -- and I think it will -- it will be driven by adverse
financial market conditions," he warns.
His scenario is this: the U.S. trade deficit is at a 100-year high, creating
an economic weakness that is masked only by the confidence of foreign
investors that U.S. financial markets will continue to provide world-beating
returns. Foreigners own 40% of U.S. Treasury bonds, for example. If they
get jittery and start to sell, the U.S. dollar weakens and gold gets very
glittery.
YGM
(04/29/00; 03:10:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 29568)
More SOROS, GOLD and CHINA...
From Blanchards Soros Series....Never Saw This Before!!!!
CHINESE AND GOLD
According to Yasuro Morita, Soros' interest in China may be far greater and it may involve gold. In "Behind the Scenes Mampulators of the Gold Market," published by Shima Media Network (Tokyo, Japan), Morita says that Soros has developed quite a relationship with the Chinese when it comes to gold.
According to the article:
"Overseas Chinese were unable to just watch from the sidelines when the news hit about Soros buying Newmont Mining Company. To the Chinese, gold is the common currency fir overseas Chinese...their history of manipulating the market for gold (which is easily converted into money and provides good investment opportunities) has given them not only a considerable fortune but a good deal of confindence in their ability. They were not about to let this latest opportunity pass them by, and they joined with Soros in his manipulation of the market...Gold suddenly jumped to $400 per troy ounce. Soros and the overseas Chinese saw this as the ceiling and ended up earning hundreds-of-millions of dollars through the sale of gold."
Morita also alleges:
"...The main figures from groups of overseas Chinese across the world hold secret 'gold hedge' meetings. It serves as a forum for the exchange of information on the gold market, as well as on international politics and economics. This meeting, which determines money-making methods for overseas Chinese, has at times decided to move the price of gold. At other times it has decided to work on the market. To date, there have been two known meetings. The first was held in November 1987 to deal with the confusion in international stock markets caused by the so-called Black Monday crash, which resulted in instability fir the Hong Kong dollar. The second known meeting was held in May of1994, when the Bank of China issued Hong Kong dollars in Hong Kong for the first time. However no one knows that this group has joined with George Soros to manipulate the gold market."
According to Morita's report, some profits from this "manipulation of the gold market" are being used to fund expansion of China's electrical power infrastructure: "China, which suffers from a severe energy shortage, will be the main recipient Since this energy shortage may prove a big obstacle to China's double-digit economic growth, it has provided an opportunity for Soros and overseas Chinese to join hands to promote their ambitions in the China market...when speculating about what will happen to gold prices, the yen exchange rate, and the development of the Chinese economy, one cannot ignore Soros and the 'gold hedge meeting' of overseas Chinese."
whether Soros is eyeing another major move in the gold market any time soon (with or without the "overseas Chinese," Morita refers to), no one knows. However, it is generally under stood that Soros is a long-term bull on the gold market, and one reason may be the outlook for higher growth and inflation in China.
Knallgold
(04/29/00; 03:05:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 29567)
Recent sellers
Robertsons Tiger fund,now Soros .(Buffet?).
PaperPOG at bottoms.Mining stocks below bottoms.Many specs report losses.Insiders sell their tech stocks.
"They will sell all paper" .FOA.
What else you wanna see to believe ?
YGM
(04/29/00; 02:53:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 29566)
GEORGE SOROS
Blanchards Feb/97 Gold Newsletter.....Thanks to Buz @GE Forum
Thanks Buz ... You made my evening.......YGM.
The Man Who Makes Markets Tremble
BY DAVE TOMSICK
"...There are so many false rumors about our activities that they often obscure what we are really doing."
- George Soros
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor's Note: This is the first of a series of articles called "The New Gold Bulls. "In each issue, we'll review the new power-brokers in the gold market -people who have the ability to break the grip of the central banks and whose buying power will eventually take the precious metals and mining share prices higher.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Soros
Age: 66
Title: Offshore hedge fund manager. Head of Soros Fund Management which manages the Quantum group of funds.
Activities: Billionaire, financial guru, philanthropist and author.
Gold Market Activity: Purchased $395 million-worth of shares in Newmont Mining Company in 1993. Presumed sold in 1995-1996.
Quote: "...the philosophy which guided me both in making and spending money.. is not about money, it is about the human condition.."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We begin the series with a profile of George Soros, a trader whose resources and sparkling track record give him unprecedented power to influence entire markets.
Despite his infamous success in playing the markets, recent statements by Soros have led us to doubt the depth of his commitment to a free market ideology. Still, while his philosophy may be in doubt, his power isn't And the world's mightiest individual investor has already demonstrated his interest and ability in the gold market.
Although he hasn't been publicly involved in the gold market for some time, we begin our series with Soros because he helped launch the initial move in gold in 1993, and seems a likely candidate to be in on the next take off.
Surely everyone remembers the old advertising slogan, "when E.E
Hutton speaks, everyone listens." In this case, simply replace E.E Hutton with George Soros - the King of Hedge Funds.
As the sole proprietor of Soros Fund Management, the management firm serving as the principal advisor to the Quantum Group of Hedge Funds, Soros is considered one of the top traders in the world. As a result, this financial wizard needs only to blink and the financial world listens - especially when it deals with the gold markets. Soros' major gold play in April 1993, for example, helped gold prices turn the corner, despite central bank efforts to depress the market.
Today, every Soros move is regarded as a sure sign that gold or other major markets are about to soar, if he buys; or crash, if he sells. With trades often exceeding $50 million or more, Soros is known as a man who has the power to move even the largest of markets and a person who is willing to take on central banks and entire countries.
Beyond his financial expertise, George Soros has been an active participant in the destruction of communism in Eastern Europe, the former Soviet Union and more recently, China. As a man who has learned firsthand how destructive such "closed societies" are, he has spent literally hundreds of mil lions of his own money to further democracy and free markets to these areas.
Let's look at what drives the King of Hedge Funds and what we can expect from him in the future. We'll review his major gold play in 1993 and look into his little-known gold alliance with a small group of powerful Chinese.
If anyone is going to break the central banks' grasp of the gold markets, George Soros and his "gold hedge" Chinese friends are certainly the ones who could send the gold prices soaring.
totalamateur
(04/29/00; 01:51:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 29565)
Bullion license?
I appreciate all the valuable input I've gotten from you who regularly post here.
Please help me with a question: I was recently asked if I had a 'bullion license'. What exactly is a bullion licence and how do you get one?
ThaiGold
(04/29/00; 00:12:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 29564)
Friday's PATSY Index
The best way to Conquer a Mountain: Tunnel under it.
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Friday's PATSY Report
4-28-2000
To: ALL
The nightly PATSY Index shows the relative
amount that GoldBugs have been conipulated.
XAU=54.75 + POG=272.50 + POS=4.93
-equals-
332.18
Down -4.81 from Thursday. Slipped a little, didn't we..
Comment: First There Was A Gain. Then There Was No Gain.
Then There Was A Loss.
Prediction: More (or less) of the same.
ThaiGold...
Got Some.?. ... Get Some.!.
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Comments Welcomed from anyone/anywhere/anytime.
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
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