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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/29/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Black Blade (11/29/00; 22:53:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 42493)
Interesting side note on oil
The slight increase in the API Crude Oil inventories on Tuesday appears to only be minor infusions of the SPR oil that has been placed into loading facilities prior to export to Europe. The Crude Oil increase in reality may not be an increase after all, but was counted as oil in inventory. This is an interesting way to "Cook the Books." This excess inventory will never be used for US based refining. Only a few industry insiders have so far questioned the counting of these "phantom" barrels. We could expect to see more of this kind of monkey business as we head into the developing energy crisis. I would suggest that no one be fooled. Some who had prepared for the Y2K non-event may yet have the last laugh.

Black Blade (11/29/00; 22:39:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 42492)
US in 'worst' gas crisis since ''70s, says executive
Source: Oil and Gas Journal
by Kate Thomas
OGJ Online


HOUSTON—The US is in the "worst" natural gas supply crisis since the 1970s, the head of a major electric power and gas company said Tuesday, raising the possibility there will be calls for government intervention. Richard C. Green Jr., CEO of UtiliCorp United Inc., said gas could continue to spike higher than $18/Mcf in California, but these prices should be taken as a signal to invest in supply and infrastructure. Aquila Energy, the nation's No. 3 gas wholesaler in 1999, is a UtiliCorp subsidiary. "We have a worse time with power," Green said at a press conference during Arthur Andersen's annual energy symposium. Wholesale power prices have soared to as high as $8,000/Mw-hr during the past 3 years in parts of the country. Green acknowledged high gas prices could lead to political problems, especially with residential gas consumers. While UtiliCorp spent much of the summer trying to prepare consumers for high gas prices this summer, now that winter has arrived "no matter what you do there will be concern over gas prices," he said.

During the past 2 weeks, spot prices in California have reached as high as $19.50/ Mcf, before easing back with warming weather, while prices in the Midwest have remained at, relatively speaking, modest levels of about $6/Mcf.In the futures market, the December contract has backed off from its all time settlement high of $6.57/ Mcf to just over $6/Mcf. Chicago is blessed by location, said Bruce Williamson, CEO of Duke Energy International, a unit of Duke Energy Corp. While Chicago is served by multiple pipelines coming from Texas and Canada, California is not as heavily endowed, he said.

Storage is also down in the West. The working gas volume statistics released by the American Gas Association (AGA) showed the West only 67% full compared to the eastern region of the country at 90%. In addition, the western region experienced a withdrawal of 31 bcf of gas for the week ended Nov. 17. AGA noted that the huge withdrawal was very early in the heating season. With respect to price controls, price caps tend to "damp off" price signals that spur investment, Williamson said. And, rather than moving up and down as they would in an unregulated market, capped prices will generally stay at the capped level. Green attributed some of the problem to partially deregulated markets. In a completely deregulated market, he said, prices would act more rationally.

Black Blade: It's not going to get much better. Exploration and production is still too low to compensate for increased use for power plant generation and retail customers. Start looking into wood burning stoves and heavy blankets. Cost are destined to rise and put on inflationary pressures.




SHIFTY (11/29/00; 22:36:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 42491)
13-year-old Bush Supporter Beaten by Pro-Gore Crowd
http://www.loudcitizen.com/news/boypunched.htm
How low can they go?

$hifty

ET (11/29/00; 22:09:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42490)
War On Rights - was War on Drugs
http://www.usatoday.com/news/court/nsco1433.htm

The police state was temporarily put on hold this week by the Supreme Court. Maybe Alec Baldwin knows what he's talking about.

From the article;

The Supreme Court ruled
Tuesday that police checkpoints
designed to catch drug traffickers
or other general criminal activity
violate motorists' privacy. The
6-3 decision is a striking
departure from the court's recent
rulings that give police
considerable leeway to stop
motorists. The justices said
roadblocks and drug-sniffing
dogs used in Indianapolis infringe on the Fourth
Amendment protection against unreasonable seizures.
They rejected arguments by the Justice Department and 15
states that checkpoints in certain neighborhoods are a
valid way to catch dealers who use their cars to do
business.

jinx44 (11/29/00; 21:55:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42489)
HBM---Missouri refund
I got my refund today----$2

Wonder what the dead man got??

Gandalf the White (11/29/00; 21:40:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 42488)
Why do you not tell us what you really think, Stranger ?
LOVE IT !
<;-)

TheStranger (11/29/00; 21:00:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 42487)
Randy and Cavan Man / I Tell Ya' There's Trouble
I hope it is not too late for me to respond to last night's question. This is what I said to Cavan Man in a recent private email correspondence:

"The first Bamboozle is the government's constant assurances
that America is running a budget surplus. You and I and anyone who has
bothered to check out the U.S. Treasury's web site know what a shameless
lie that is."

The statement is true.
Furthermore, I went on to say,

"In the past year, Greenspan has bought $19 billion of the $43 billion in net new U.S. Treasury debt which was issued."

Again, I am making a statement which is correct. So, yes, Cavan Man is right. The Fed did monetize some 44% of the net new Federal debt which was issued between November 1,1999 and Oct.31,2000.

For what it's worth, both of these statements bear some significance. We just endured an election year in the United States. The single biggest campaign issue was not gun control or abortion or crime or the Middle East or, or, or... No. The big fight was over how best to use the "budget surplus". Only trouble is...there ain't no budget surplus!!! Yes, there has been a reduction in PUBLICLY-HELD federal debt. But, thanks to the Social Security Trust Fund and the Federal Reserve Board, TOTAL federal debt is still growing.

So, throughout the Clinton years, the government has continued to rack up deficits right up to and including the current year. Yet those who represent us lie about these deficits to their constituents while they busily plan on spending even more. And behind it all, of course, is the Great Facilitator...Alan Greenspan.

And now the stock market is wiping out all those juicy capital gains. Furthermore, the economy may be slowing enough to raise unemployment. So just what do you think will happen to all those government tax revenues next, boys? That's right. They are going to go down. (So you better not put that big fat check book of yours away just yet, Alan. If you still plan on achieving that soft landing you've been dreaming about, we are going to need more money, lots more, and fast!)

I tell ya' there's trouble...right here in River City! And that starts with "T", and that rhymes with "G", and that stands for...

"The Green Weanie!"



Midas Mulligan (11/29/00; 20:25:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 42486)
Additon to my statement
Mediocrity is those who choose to feel and neither act nor react but freeze and that is there means of leverage and power over everyone else. Giants feel and act. Collectivists/Promethians feel and react. Atlas thinks and acts but doesnt feel.

Midas Mulligan (11/29/00; 20:21:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 42485)
What it means for Atlas to Shrug
There are those who choose to think and act but not feel and those who choose to feel and act or react but not think. They make up our pragmatic society. Atlas is the former. The world that depends on his mind and productivity is the latter. Ayn Rand said in her famous novel that the Atlases, or thinkers and acters, should give up their minds and dollar money and become idealistic feelers and acters for gold money instead, ie. they should shrug and not take society and the world seriously since it is ruled by mediocrity/pragmatists and the irrationalist they create via compromise by those who think and act but not feel.

megatron (11/29/00; 20:01:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 42484)
silvercollector
Check out SilverStandardResources on CDNX and Minefinders on Toronto, TSE. Minefinders looks promising.

Randy (@ The Tower) (11/29/00; 19:55:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 42483)
Silvercollector
Q: "Can one search this forum by post number and can one pull up a specific posters past remarks for reference?"

A: Yes, but only with a manual perusal of the archives. We may someday be willing to modify the structure of the archives to add a search feature, but that would require time and energy (= money.) Assuming that every visitor to this site is willing to support such efforts by choosing Centennial Precious Metals as their source for gold, then such improvements become possible and more likely.

As we state elsewhere, "Please Remember: It is your purchase of gold from Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. that nourishes these pages."

silvercollector (11/29/00; 19:43:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42482)
Galearis
From your post,

"What silver stocks do I like? None of them. What silver stocks to I own? "

I am into Noranda. Some gold, silver amd platinum exposure and a 5.3% dividend. I feel people might flock to this 'value' play. thoughts?

S.C.

Sancho (11/29/00; 19:29:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 42481)
The Second Oldest Profession
I am still honked off over their being more attorneys in Florida than orange groves, most of them unlicensed to even practice there. If one looks really close at the vast majority of society's ills, it boils down to attorneys. They are either running for office, in political office sucking off the public coffers somewhere, or hindering and attacking someone else seeking office, or otherwise trying to eke out a substandard living in a business while avoiding lawsuits. It seems an old saw was a banker walking out into the ocean with an attorney under each arm being a GOOD START. It would take eons to thin out the species adequately through this system and maybe more efficient ways could be found. This country is going to need a GOOD START or it is finished....

silvercollector (11/29/00; 19:25:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42480)
@ Randy/USAGOLD : Searching posts
Can one search this forum by post number and can one pull up a specific posters past remarks for reference.

Thanks,

silvercollector

Cavan Man (11/29/00; 19:20:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 42479)
HI-HAT
I should retire the glass myself and probably will sooner than later. It takes too much energy.

In Ireland (FYI), those retired from the Pubs and Pints are called "Pioneers".

Hopefully we'll be hoisting a jar soon enough to cheer the rise of POG to $273.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TRAIL GUIDE?

Sancho (11/29/00; 19:18:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42478)
More plagiarized prose proffered
A vain man's motto is: Win gold and wear it; a generous
"Win gold and share it"; a miser's "Win gold and hoard it";
a profligate's "Win gold and spend it"; a broker's Win gold
and lend it";a gambler's "Win gold and lose it"; a wise
man's; Win gold and use it".

Randy (@ The Tower) (11/29/00; 19:08:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 42477)
Watching the COMEX rollover
I offer this in continuation of yesterday's post describing the trading scene at COMEX this week as the delivery month arrives for the active gold futures contract.

To briefly build on the foundation of yesterday's post about Monday's trade (18:00MT-usagold.com msg#:42408), numbers released today reveal that Tuesday's trade of 65,500 gold contracts resulted in a net settlement of 13,000 December contracts, leaving 22,000 in open interest at the end of the day. Meanwhile, there was a net increase of 8,500 February postitions, elevating the total number of those Feb futures in open interest to 65,000.

The flat pricing of the December contract throughout yesterday's action indicates that neither longs nor shorts set the pace of the trading. Today's downdraft in December contract prices, however, indicates that the sellers were leading the action. Tomorrow, we will take a look at today's trading volume (which was estimated at 75,000 contracts), but in the meanwhile, consider the implications of these excerpts from Bridge News. They come as no surprise if you have been following some of the discussions regarding the position of the bullion banking system here at the forum...
---
London, Nov. 29 (Bridge News) COMEX gold and silver futures surrendered the gains they made Monday and Tuesday, as both finished Wednesday's session in the red. Feb gold settled down $3 at $269.60 per ounce, while Mar silver settled down 7.3c at $4.70 per ounce. Bank, broker and trade house selling was behind the rout, and smaller speculators made a disappointed exit as the rally was killed off.
+
...gold has recently been helped to higher prices by the weaker dollar...
+
The euro pushed higher to reach a two-week peak against the dollar Wednesday, but then backed off. However, even as it was climbing, gold had already started to stumble...
---
It should be somewhat clear by now that the ultimate effects on price discovery through COMEX trade operations are not locked to the fate of a currency, nor of the physical trade. The lesson to be learned, and not stressed here for the first or last time, is that COMEX gold contract prices should not be expected to send any early warning signals that trouble lurks in either the underlying physical gold market or a national currency.

As I recommended yesterday, seize the current benefit of these prices and buy into the physical gold, not the unsustainable mechanism that has fostered this condition.

Hill Billy Mitchell (11/29/00; 18:26:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 42476)
Cavan Man # 42423
Hi Cavan Man

You said

"Hill Billy Mitchell.Did you receive your Title X stipend yet? I am going to invest it in a few silver coins."

My response:

I have not been entitled to Title X monies since tax year 1996. Your question brought a broad smile to my face.

Non-Missourians would not understand this discussion. Let me explain. In Missouri the total tax revenues are so high that the communists are unable to spend all of the take. When the state surplus is large enough a small amount is returned to the taxpayers in proportion to the total taxes paid during the period in question. It is such a small pittance that Cavan Man could not buy even one gold coin with the money; hence he opted for a few silver coins.

Cavan Man you are too cool.(grin)

In order for one to receive a Title X refund one must file a tax return and have a tax liability for the year in question. Journeyman and Dave C would understand why I will not get one of these checks in the mail ever again.

HBM




wolavka (11/29/00; 18:06:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 42475)
okay warren
Buffitt paid 562 million in income taxes for 1999, next:

we have a standing game pool at cbot for super bowl. 100,000 a square, no quarters winner takes all, 10 million.

Hi-Hat (11/29/00; 18:05:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42474)
auspec
It only hurts when I laugh.

auspec (11/29/00; 17:55:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 42473)
@ Hi-Hat
I just knew there had to be banana trees in Fla, thanks for the confirmation. DelusionAL may soon be in command of our entire Banana Republic if we all {the courts} can come to see things his way. Best to you Hi-Hat.

Hi-Hat (11/29/00; 17:47:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 42472)
Cavan Man
I am midway down the peninsula in Florida, near the Gulf of Mexico, and have frost damage on the Banana trees on my property, from last weeks front.

Been downright nippy here for this time of year. Could be
what Black Blade writes about is going to play out in spades if Arctic air masses wreak havoc over the Winter, in a kind of "Perfect Storm".

I have not had a nip O' the Pint since 85. Am kinda a Dylan
Thomas type Irishman, and had to retire the glass. :- ).

Cheers to You.

Pandagold (11/29/00; 17:45:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 42471)
How shall I know if I do choose the right? (Merchant of Venice)

Let the laws of your own land
Good or ill, between ye stand
Hand to hand, and foot to foot
Arbiter of the dispute
Shelley


If you are wondering why this electoral dispute is dragging on, and when it is likely to be settled, lets take a look at some possible beneficiaries - or who stands to gain.

The shops are stacked with Christmas goods. People spend if they have 'the feel good factor' (whatever that is).They are going to need a surge upward in the markets to restore some of that 'feel good stuff' We can assume any surge will be very short lived, so if they have it too soon it would fizzle out like a damp squib before the cash registers start ringing.

Those hard worked lawyers need some spending money, there's Christmas and for most of them Hanukkah so the longer they string it out, the bigger yacht they can buy.

The news media, and chat shows need to feed their ratings by keeping you tuned to 'tonight's re-e-eely big show', before they (the people) demand a different form of entertainment for the festive season.

Tot 'em all up and what do you get......err let's see, we have about 24 shopping days left.....................

I would guess about the 8th or 15th of December you will know who is the president. If you don't hear by the 15th it will be left until after the holidays. But my betting is before.

This is, as you will have guessed, not to be taken too seriously. Though there could be in it an element of truth.

Journeyman (11/29/00; 16:50:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 42470)
Amen and Hail Mary! @auspec (11/29/00; 15:41:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 42465)

"We live in a very backwards world." -auspec #: 42465

My friendly local dentist paved over my molars when I was a teen. Said they were too sharp!! He needed the work, is my analysis now.

I still chelate every once in awhile just to make sure!

Glad you put "very" in front of "backward!"

Regards,
Journeyman


Cavan Man (11/29/00; 16:33:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 42469)
NEM
Hi-Hat: I bought in a little high but still at a good level. Gold stocks are tougher to "learn" than simply holding the "yellow". Wish I could allocate more.

Speaking of your sobriquet, one could use a lead chappeau here today. 'Tis a "blustery day".

Back to my pint....CM

Hi-Hat (11/29/00; 16:18:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 42468)
CoBra(too)
I hope you are right. As a long time player in these markets
the last few years have been very sickening and frustrating.

All the Best.

CoBra(too) (11/29/00; 16:09:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 42467)
@ Hi Hat -
NEM is still excellent value - so don't worry too much about surrendering BMG for more NEM - you could've fared worse - IMHO - cb2

PS-I 'm just buying more - no advise - only vice!



Hi-Hat (11/29/00; 15:57:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 42466)
Pandagold.......Re: BMG
You are of course right concerns the BMG tender offer. I
assumed it was a done deal, and expected BMG to be off the
Big Board by now.

I should add that my disgust with gild shares is so total,
I am not even paying attention to particulars. I hold them
but have all but written them off.

Anything over the Newmont "offer", I am getting for my
2,000 shares of BMG would work for me.

auspec (11/29/00; 15:41:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 42465)
Journeyman/ Dental Gold/ Mercury/ Post #42382
You are so right about the mercury my friend! Have you given it any thought about this Hg coming out of dental appliances that used to be in someone's mouth??? Maybe this particular dentistry was done in the 1800's when the dentists didn't know any better than to place Hg containing compounds in their trusting patients mouths?
If you were to make a list of the least "stable" chemical elements, mercury would have to be high on this list. Unfortunately, Hg is still placed in people's mouths ROUTINELY all over the globe and our best known dental association is staunchly behind this "barbaric relic of the past" {this is the real one, not our friend gold}. We live in a very backwards world.

Got the non-toxic heavy metal?! Au specific

CoBra(too) (11/29/00; 15:34:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 42464)
GtW - Your Hobbits are most observant ...
and with all due respect to auspec the lone, though mighty fighter for "another" class of HoF - has perservered by sheer bravado of great penmanship.
The "CLHE- HoF" may ultimately become a safe haven,
psychologically, to all (of us), desperately clinging to rationality in the advent of (after?-) shocks of virtual goldilocks!
Does this mean "physical" only?
For me and you - cb2



Cavan Man (11/29/00; 15:28:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42463)
Farfel
Your agreement with a comment I made to PH the other day is taken here as a compliment. It is not every day that someone who is very bright and successful (not to mention funny)agrees with me. Thank you.

auspec (11/29/00; 15:24:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 42462)
Wiz- CLHE-HoF
Life is sooooooooo GOOD!!

SHIFTY (11/29/00; 14:08:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 42461)
Gandalf the White
http://www.usagold.com/hall/HallLighterSide.html
Just checked out the new site. Looks great. Cant wait to read some !

Hard to say if we will be "swearing-in" or "swearing at" the new Prez. "Best Wishes for 2001" right back at ya!

$hifty

Gandalf the White (11/29/00; 12:24:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 42460)
UPDATE !
http://www.usagold.com/hall/HallLighterSide.html
THE FORUM HALL OF FAME
The Lighter Side of Gold
a.k.a. "Cerebral Left Hemisphere Enhanced Hall of Fame"
(by popular insistence)
===========
The Hobbits see that the "Town Crier" has relented to the flood of wisdom presented to the Castle and cleaned out the cobwebs from a corner of the HoF. Three cheers for Townie!!! Now, let all keep him busy with the nominations for the BEST of the LIGHT SIDE !! <;-)
-----
The WIZ is sad to advise all those that responded to the offer of "FREE(milling) GOLD" that the ALCHEMY effort was only partial successful, (as top quality gnats eyeballs are difficult to get nowdays!!) but the results have been equally divided and the vials are "in the mail". Look for the Wizard's Xmas present soon.
===
Travel and re-education efforts shall keep me from visiting with all until after the "swearing-in" of the new President, but I offer early "Best Wishes for 2001" to all Goldhearts,and especially you, Aragorn III, Peter of the House of Asher, The Stranger, Ari and MK.
The Wiz, Gandalf the White
<;-)



miner49er (11/29/00; 12:16:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 42459)
Usul - How about...
Can you do the same calculation on all the paper gold ever issued???

Usul (11/29/00; 11:45:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 42458)
If all the gold ever mined...
http://www.gold.org/Ginfos/Gi2pro.htm
(a cube of nearly 19 m each side, according to the World Gold Council link) were compressed into a black hole, it would have a radius (defined by the Schwarzschild Radius) of 1.86 x 10^-19 m, or about 1 billionth of the radius of a sodium atom. Being a remarkably small black hole, it would have a temperature of approximately 2.5 x 10^16 Kelvin and would evaporate by Hawking radiation in a tremendous blast of fiercely energetic particles, antiparticles, and gamma rays within 57 minutes. Of course, if you did that, you wouldn't have any gold left.


wolavka (11/29/00; 10:31:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 42457)
interesting
to watch how greed trys to keep the little guy from making a single buck off the glut of market orders to liquidate the dec comex contracts. Pure scum working. 2 hrs to go in the pig pit.

dragonfly (11/29/00; 10:11:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 42456)
Poetry
SteveH, Christopher, All

Enjoyed all the verse today.

Here's one that is timely from John Donne.
-------------------------------------------

Some truth there was,
but dashed and brewed with lies,
To please the fools and
puzzle all the wise.

-------------------------------------------
Regards,
dragonfly

wolavka (11/29/00; 10:07:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42455)
pigs
putting in the usual 11 oclock cst low, watch it now>>>>>>>>>

Pandagold (11/29/2000; 8:47:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 42454)
Fairy tales will come true, it could happen to you if......................tra la
I have a sneaky feeling that the person who first named it a Goldilocks economy, was Father Bear licking his lips

Galearis (11/29/2000; 8:31:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 42453)
An interesting email discussion on the silver deficit situation.
Rhody and Walter discuss a article (at the bottom)
Hello Walter:
There is no way to accurately estimate silver stocks. The Silver Institute is
in cahoots with the Silver User's Association, and metal market analysts linked
to hedge funds, or commodity brokers are a joke, as they are mostly short/holding
metal lease obligations they cannot meet. The world is drawing down silver stocks
but the remaining stockpiles are an unknown. Take COMEX stockpiles. They
show just under 100 Moz in the warehouses.(How much of this is registered?) This figure has not moved for
months. Yet that is impossible in a physical deficit situation as NY has the
largest remaining stocks. The answer may be supply coming out of China.
Why would China sell at a price that represents a fire sale? Silver is relatively
small potatoes relative to other metals. China may be sacrificing windfall
profits on silver during a bull in exchange for unknowable concessions in
being allowed entry into the WTO. The entire world silver trade is worth only
$US4billion at $4.70/oz. China's share of this is a little over $100 million assuming
a 30 Moz annual production. Add to that 60 Moz of stockpiles, and the total
sacrifice has been $US300. China has a $7 billion/month trade surplus with
the US. Even if that trade surplus was for an entire year, the Chinese obviously
have a vested interest in not overturning the trade apple cart with the US.
If silver blows, then certain hedge funds would fail, as would certain mines
such as Barrick, and perhaps TVX (I don't know whether they have liquidated
those hedges) and that could initiate a LTCM style derivative crisis. Kodak
is probably exposed via silver leases, and silver tends to parallel gold as an
indicator of financial stability. So for all of the above, the powers that be in
the investment, mining, and consumer ends all have a vested interest in sitting
on silver. And they can do it with paper silver too, with the derivative contracts
piling up in investment banks that cannot be allowed to fail lest they take down
the entire system.
What silver stocks do I like? None of them. What silver stocks to I own?
TVX and FSR, plus HM (acquired when HM took over Prime Resources).
These stocks are all down so far that I am locked in for the duration. I no longer
buy any paper assets. Just bullion. Since no mining company provides up to
date info on their hedge positions, the entire pm security field is a mine field of
hedge risks (except FSR) should silver explode. If silver does explode, these
stocks may go up (or implode) but capital gains must be paid. With physical,
the down side risk is low, and the upside may exceed stocks, and no capital
gain need be declared as the metal can be bartered during a metal bull, or disposed
quietly to coin dealers. Everybody seems to forget the tax advantage of owning physical.
Many thanks for the Veneroso forward. That analysis crystallized many of
the suspicions I have had concerning the New Economy and internet stocks. Many
of my friends are into these things and yet there is no way I can warn them, as
they would not listen. Indeed, why would they listen to any fool who has bought
pms. I have tried to tell a friend of mine about silver, but he just quotes the SUA
spin about digital cameras, and the demise of silver consumption. Actually silver
demand for film is still rising 3-4% per annum.
Regards, Rhody

walter wrote:

WE THE GOLD SILVER BUGS HAVE HAD THE RESERVE, PRODUCTION ,RECLAMATION,
HIDDEN RESERVE, ETC ETC, FED TO US FOR YEARS AND YET THE MAJOR QUESTION
TO ME IS WHY WITH A HOARD OF SILVER WOULD I WANT TO SELL A DEPLETING
STOCK AT A LOW PRICE .
IS IT A LOCKED IN HEDGE POSITION ,OR AM I FORCED TO SELL, WHICH AT THIS
POINT IS AN UNKNOWN, OR THE BY-PRODUCT IDEA.
I STILL BELIEVE THE REASONS FOR SELLING THIS CONSUMED PRODUCT AT A FIRE
SALE PRICE AND THE SIZE OF THE HOARD HAVE NOT REALLY COME TO LIGHT.
YOU MENTION CHINA SELLING , WHICH I CANNOT UNDERSTAND,WHY AT THIS TIME WHEN
THEY WILL GET A MINIMUM PRICE FOR THEIR SUPPLY.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY ARE THAT INSENSITIVE TO WORLD STOCKS OF THIS
COMMODITY OR THE PRICES THAT ARE BEING CURRENTLY RECEIVED .
HOLDING ON SAY FOR INSTANCE 3 TO 4 MONTHS WOULD YIELD A MUCH HIGHER PRICE.
DOES MY ARGUMENT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
BY THE WAY WHAT ARE YOUR FAVORITE SILVER STOCK PLAYS JUST IN CASE.
WALTER
At 04:53 PM 11/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
Hello Walter:
Thanks for the update on the Strategic stockpiles of silver in the
US. At 1% of
global demand, the US mint must be using about 9 million oz per year in its silver coin
programmes. That last 15 million oz will last the mint about a year
and a half. I think
the world will be out of surface stockpiles in less time than that
though, by March next year
by my count. The net supply deficit all sources is 12 Moz per month,
and that means
that COMEX plus LBMA stocks will last just over a year, and this last 15
Moz adds just
a little more. The big question is China's stocks. That could add
5 more months if
what I hear of 60 Moz stocks is true. We should have a silver bull,
but as you now
know, the market cannot distinquish between paper silver, leased silver
and new physical
supply, so I just don't know. Last time silver exploded in 1980, the
commodity exchanges
"solved" the problem by allowing only futures sales, and freezing
purchases, and then blaming
the Hunt Bros. I don't really know how this will play out, but I do
know that this time
around, there will be NO silver, and paper silver shorts won't keep
Kodak alive.
Regards, Rhody
Received:

Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:32:01

Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:32:00 -0800
Message-Sender: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:33:58
From: walter Subject:

U.S. National Defense Silver Stockpile
Eliminated November 27, 2000

(Washington, D.C. ­ November 27, 2000) The U.S. Defense
National Stockpile Center (DNSC) committed to deliver its
remaining stockpile of silver, nearly 15 million ounces, to the
United States Mint for its coinage programs. The final balance of
silver will be shipped to the U.S. Mint over the next few weeks,
effectively depleting the silver stockpile. The silver stockpile has
been managed by the DNSC, an arm of the Defense Logistics
Agency.

Once the U.S. Mint depletes its silver reserve, they must then
purchase silver for its coinage programs from the open market,
potentially boosting silver demand by up to 1 percent annually.
"According to silver market analysts, this increased demand
would further widen the gap between overall silver supply and
fabrication demand," said Paul Bateman, Executive Director of
the Silver Institute.

In the late 1960s, the DNSC had over 165 million ounces of
silver in its stockpile. The silver stockpile once posed a serious
threat to the market when government officials determined it was
no longer needed and that domestic silver production combined
with reliable imports could sustain the United States in the event
of an emergency. The General Services Administration, an
executive branch agency, attempted to sell the silver in the fall of
1981 through auctions, but the auctions were discontinued when
bid prices fell below the market price of silver.

In the early 1980s, the General Accounting Office (GAO), an
investigative arm of Congress, recommended that silver from the
stockpile be used for coinage rather than sold on the open
market. GAO's proposal assured that using silver to mint a
bullion coin and other forms of coinage would minimize or
eliminate any short-term market price disruption by developing
new demand to offset the increased supply. GAO's proposal
was implemented when Congress created the American Silver
Eagle bullion coin in 1986 and specified that metal for the coin
be drawn from the stockpile, unlike the Gold Eagle for which the
U.S. Mint is required to use newly mined gold from domestic
mines.

Having consumed over 120 million ounces of silver over the past
19 years, the U.S. Mint is one of the largest silver users in the
world, accounting for more than 1 percent of worldwide demand
during that period.

The Silver Institute is a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit
international industry association. Established in 1971, the
Institute serves as the industry's voice in increasing public
understanding of the value and many uses of silver.


TheStranger (11/29/2000; 8:11:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 42452)
Pandagold
Actually, I did read your post carefully. I know you meant no harm and said so. But, even when you only pass along other people's mistakes without taking exception, it seems to me you compound the harm which is done. I frankly don't see much benefit from posting such material. But if you do, here is a suggestion. Next time, just preface such a post with your own opinion of it.

Meantime, Pandagold, your remarks in msg#: 42441 are much more rational than Mr. Schnitzler's. In baiting the brand new CEO of Mewmont, Schnitzler was clearly addressing the wrong man. But then, judging from the rest of his letter, false assumptions are an apparent habit of his.

I see you as a clear asset to the Forum, and I enjoy seeing your posts. I apologize if my tone was too harsh.

As to why Newmont's stock price is down, I stick by my previous remarks. Thanks.

SHIFTY (11/29/2000; 8:04:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 42451)
12 Reasons to Buy Gold NOW!
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_00/blanchard113000pv.html
12 Reasons to Buy Gold NOW!


1. Gold is Undervalued. Right now, the price of gold is trading at $266 per ounce. The following figures put the current price of gold in historical perspective:


From 1979 to 1999, the Average Annual Low for the price of gold was $339 per ounce-$73 and nearly 27% higher than it is today.


From 1979 to 1999, the Average Annual price of gold was $386 per ounce-$120 and nearly 45% higher than it is today.


From 1979 to 1999, the Average Annual High for the price of gold was $455 per ounce-$189 and more than 71% higher than it is today.


In 15 out of the last 20 years, gold exceeded $400 per ounce.


The price of gold is actually trading at 1/3 of its all-time high.


2. Reversion to the Mean. Since 1970, gold has predominantly moved in the opposite direction of stocks. History also shows that the prices of both stocks and gold tend to revert to the mean over the long term. A crucial question then arises. When will equities move down to their mean, and when will gold move up? How much would gold have to rise to get to the mean? From 1979 to 1999, the average annual price of gold was $386 per ounce. At the current price, gold would have to rise nearly 42% just to get back to that level.

3. Uncertainty in the Stock Market. Stock markets from New York to Tokyo and back have performed dismally for months. The NASDAQ is in an all-out bear market, yet there are still lingering questions about high stock valuations, indicating the market may have further to fall. Meanwhile, the corrective phase in the Dow and the S&P 500 could evolve into a bear market as well. Should the bear market intensify, more and more investors will look for alternative assets, such as gold. Gold's correlation with stocks has historically ranged from nil to negative, therefore it provides very effective diversification of a stock portfolio.

4. Fear of Inflation. The Fed is clearly concerned about inflation and the markets will eventually come around to the same point of view. Unemployment is at a 30-year low and the labor market is tight as a drum. Oil prices have tripled over the past 18 months. Almost every commodity index has been on the rise. The combination of a tight labor market and rising raw materials prices has not occurred since the 1970s. As inflation begins to build, stocks and bonds will suffer, while traditional inflation hedges, such as gold, will appreciate in value.

5. Demand Fundamentals. Demand for gold continues at near-record highs around the world. The only aspect of gold demand that is not sky-high is investment demand. When macroeconomic conditions bring investors back to gold, they will be greeted by a very tight market.

6. Supply Fundamentals. The physical gold market is actually quite tight. For an entire decade, demand for gold has outpaced new supplies. The low gold prices of the past few years have only contributed to the situation as the price of an ounce of gold has fallen below the cost to produce that ounce of gold in many parts of the world. As a result, thousands of miners have been laid off, particularly in South Africa, and numerous mines have been closed. Moreover, exploration has ground to a halt. Less exploration and lower future production, coupled with curtailed central bank sales, will make a tight market even tighter down the road.

7. Rising Commodity Prices. Commodity prices have been on the rise for months, but gold has not kept pace. Base metals, raw materials and energy prices are all up. Meanwhile, gold prices have been lagging. History has shown that a wide disparity between commodity prices and gold does not persist for long. The price of oil has tripled over the past year and a half. In the final analysis, a significant, sustained rise in oil prices is likely to exert an upward pull on gold prices. An oil price rise also tends to increase inflation. The two major upward moves in the price of oil in the 1970s were accompanied by increases in the price of gold.

8. The Best News in the Dollar is Behind Us. For some time now, the price of gold has languished under the weight of a strong U.S. dollar. Because the dollar is the world's reserve currency and gold is priced in dollars, a strong dollar tends to depress the price of gold. It also attracts investors to U.S. stocks and bonds, particularly Treasuries. With our huge trade deficit, growing oil imports, and newly volatile stock market, the dollar could start losing ground. Should the dollar's decline be sustained, gold will benefit on two fronts. First, because gold is priced in dollars, as the value of the dollar declines, the price of gold will tend to increase. Second, as the value of the dollar declines, foreign investment in U.S. stocks and bonds will decline, adding to the negative momentum in those markets. This will indirectly boost investment demand for gold.

9. Rising Interest Rates. There is an old saying in the investment world: "Don't fight the Fed." Statements coming out of the Fed seem to indicate that, when election season ends, we can expect another round of interest rate hikes. This will create a climate in which stocks and bonds simply cannot thrive. History has shown that rising interest rates often coincide with rising gold prices.

10. World Tensions. The recent outbreak of violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians and the tragic attack of the USS Cole served as a wake up call to many Americans that the world is a dangerous place. These two events also touched off volatility on Wall Street and a short, sharp spike in gold prices. Unfortunately, these two incidents are likely only a small taste of what is to come. To many Americans, it appears that trouble spots have been appearing overnight. Actually, there are a host of potential hot spots and enemies that could cause trouble for the financial markets over the next several years: Iran, Iraq, China-Taiwan, North Korea, Colombia, Libya, India-Pakistan, and Israel just to name a few.

11. America's Mushrooming Trade Deficit. Overlooked in all of the campaign rhetoric about prosperity and easy living, was America's serious and troubling trade deficit. Our trade deficit is approaching unsustainable levels and no one knows for sure what the effects might be. This deficit could potentially lead to a protectionist backlash, foreign dumping of U.S. Treasury Bonds and other U.S. securities, or, at the very least, a sharp decline in the dollar. Gold would perform as a hedge against any of these three scenarios.

12. America's Growing Private Debt. While politicians in Washington brag about the brightening federal debt picture, America's consumer debt is reaching all-time highs-perhaps unsustainable highs that could wreck the "Goldilocks" economy. Revolving (credit card) debt is at an all-time high. Home equity is actually down, despite the rise in home ownership. Bankruptcies are being filed at a record pace. Some 35% of all money in 401(k) plans has been borrowed against. All of this debt could spell trouble for the stock market down the road.




November 30, 2000

Blanchard Economic Research
http://www.blanchardonline.com


wolavka (11/29/2000; 7:40:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 42450)
reno
before she saved her beard she looked like that guy.

wolavka (11/29/2000; 7:34:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 42449)
A.B.A.
annual meeting aug 2-8 2001 in chicago.
maybe usama bin Laden will be guest speaker.

Christopher (11/29/2000; 7:22:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 42448)
Steve H poetry
A little Golden poetry to start off the day. I have been trying to think of a way to apply a positive spin on this poem where it concerns Gold, maybe the CHLE members may help me.

Nature's first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.

Her early leaf's a flower
But only so an hour.

Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief.

So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing Gold can stay.

Robert Frost


Then there is my favorite first line of an epic poem by Robert Browning, which puts me in mind of our political leaders, especially ALGORE and his ilk. Is it me, or does every word out of the man's mouth have the feel of a misrepresentation?

My first thought was he lied in every word,
That hoary cripple with malicious eye
Askance to watch the working of his lie
On mine. And mouth scarce able to afford
Suppression of the glee that pursed and scored
Its edge, at one more victim gained thereby.

"Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came"

A wonderful morning to all.

wolavka (11/29/2000; 7:09:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42447)
Longshanks
Makes no difference, floor gonna wait all day before you run it up for delivery, you're still a circle of clowns

goldhunter (11/29/2000; 6:57:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 42446)
tedw...answer
I read a few years back thatexact statistic:

All the gold ever mined would fit in a cube 57 feet on a side

I've read recently that approx 80% to 87% of all that "ever mined" gold is still with us today...

My Guess would be that the cube would now be approx 65 feet on a side as production has improved on a YEARLY BASIS since 1990...allow for some production falling off presently due to low gold price...

I hope this helps...

Incidently, gold would likely be thousands per ounce if it were consumed like oil is...



WAC (Wide Awake Club) (11/29/2000; 6:54:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 42445)
Home is where the money eventually flows!
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/001129/80/aqfep.html
Frightened funds flee home, to dollar's detriment
By Swaha Pattanaik
LONDON, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Frightened money tends to run home and the signs are it is doing just that, to the dollar's cost, as a global economic slowdown looks under way.

European growth has reached a plateau, Japan's corporate woes are once again in the spotlight, and to top it all, the United States no longer looks able to act as the engine of world growth as its record-beating economic expansion loses momentum.

True to form, international investors are therefore starting to think that home is the best place for their cash -- and given how much capital has been exported to the United States in recent years, the dollar is expected to be the hardest hit.

"There is a global slowdown but its epicentre is in the United States and this is negative for the dollar," said Tim O'Dell, fund manager at Investec Asset Management in London.

"Even if it turns out that the U.S. is only averagely affected, it is so heavily dependent on net inflows of capital to offset its very large current account deficit that we would want to have a reduced exposure to the dollar."

O'Dell said the firm had already moved to an underweight position on the dollar, with most of the adjustment coming in the last few weeks.

"It is not impossible we could cut this position further," he said.


TIDE TURNING AS INVESTORS SCURRY HOME

Stellar productivity gains have allowed the United States to enjoy its longest economic expansion in history without igniting inflation.

The amount of international money lured into the world's largest economy as a result more than financed the growing U.S. current account deficit.

But the tide looks like it is turning as evidence of a U.S. slowdown mounts up and compounds pressure on U.S. stocks.

With U.S. consumer confidence already at its lowest ebb in more than a year and many U.S. firms finding it harder to raise new financing in capital markets, international investors are coming around to the view that it might be time to head home.

"We are now moving to a neutral position on the dollar and I think a lot of other investors are doing the same," said Roy Adams, treasury manager at Old Mutual (LSE: OML.L - news) Asset Managers in London.

"It is a matter of people starting to repatriate money now that growth looks like it is slowing everywhere."

Adams said the firm's exposure to the dollar had peaked in summer, when it was 10 percent more overweight than its benchmark, but that it had since trimmed its gains and was now pulling money back to the UK.

He said the firm also planned to raise its exposure to the euro from underweight to neutral.


U.S. NOT ALONE, JUST MORE EXPOSED

Investors are well aware that the United States is not the only one suffering from a slowdown and its economy still has the edge over most other industrial nations.

For example, a report earlier this week showed German growth almost halved in the third quarter.

But the problem for the dollar is that the United States needs to attract more than $1 billion a day of foreign funds to offset its trade deficit.

"The U.S. slowdown is what is concerning people and we are seeing evidence of less money moving abroad," said Jim O'Neill, chief currency economist at Goldman Sachs in London.

"For the past three weeks we have seen evidence of reduced European investment in the United States and the problem is that from a balance of payments perspective, the U.S. needs this money while the euro zone and Switzerland do not."

The dollar has already shed nearly three percent so far this week against the euro and the Swiss franc, the currencies of countries which tend to export capital.

While Japan is the world's largest creditor nation, the yen has been slower to benefit, given concerns about the health of Japan's corporate sector are deepening gloom about a recovery which has yet to become well entrenched.

But even the Japanese currency has managed to rebound 1.5 percent from nine-month lows set earlier this week against the dollar.

While investors are not yet convinced that the United States is heading for a hard landing, they are increasingly toying with the idea that the dollar's five-year bull run may be over.

"The jury is still out on whether we have seen the top for the dollar but if there are more problems with U.S. growth, we could see quite a significant downside from here," said O'Dell at Investec Asset Management.


Usul (11/29/2000; 6:28:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 42444)
Time to dollarize Europe
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/erdman.htx?source=htx/http2_mw
Erdman's World
Al Gore's lawyers could help


Black Blade (11/29/2000; 6:11:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 42443)
"OPEC Worry Over Oil Price Plunge Is Misplaced: Brendan Moynihan"
Interesting - Energy to get more expensive! = Inflation on the Horizon

by Brendan Moynihan. 'Nashville, Tennessee, November 28, (Bloomberg) -

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries this month deferred a decision on any change in oil production until January. OPEC's own oil price index is up 35 percent this year even after four output increases, yet the producers left open the possibility that their next move may be to cut, rather than increase, output. Why cut? Because some ministers are concerned that an oil price collapse is likely in the second quarter of 2001 if production rates stay at current levels. Ali Rodriguez, OPEC president and Venezuela's oil minister, warned a few months ago that the price of the group's benchmark basket of crude oils could fall back to 1998 lows close to $9 a barrel. Yet the longer-term supply and demand numbers just don't support a case for a price crash like the one we experienced in 1998. That's because supply conditions now are different from those that prevailed in 1997, before the collapse. First, consider that from 1991 to 1999, ``capital expenditures in the oil business around the world expanded at the rate of 11.5 percent per year,'' according to Charley Maxwell, Senior Energy Analyst at Weeden & Co in Greenwich, Connecticut. ``One could argue that the 11.5 percent capital expenditure rate is needed to generate stable prices. In 1998, capital expenditures were flat and in 1999, they were minus 18 percent.''

Keeping Prices High

Clearly, the industry has some catching up to do just to get back to the past decade's average. But there is a time lag involved for spending on exploration and development to have an effect on oil supplies and, therefore, prices. That delay alone could keep the price of crude above $20 a barrel for at least a few years. Next, consider OPEC's shrinking surplus capacity since the end of the Gulf War. In 1991, there were some 12 million barrels a day of surplus OPEC capacity. The cartel could tap it pretty much at will. Today, OPEC has fewer than 3 million barrels a day in surplus capacity. This means that over the past nine years, the market has had the benefit of an extra 1 million barrels a day per year in supply without having to ``pay'' for it, so to speak, in the form of increased capital expenditures. It was, in effect, a ``free'' source of extra supply.

Demand Growth

Meantime, global oil demand is chugging along. The International Energy Agency, which coordinates energy policy for 23 industrialized nations, said earlier this month that demand for oil in the first quarter of 2001 will jump by 2.6 million barrels a day from a year earlier. The Centre for Global Energy Studies, a think tank founded by former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani, has forecast a rise in demand of 3.2 percent next year, or about 3 million barrels a day, roughly equal to the amount of oil OPEC put on the market this year. So the industry is going to have to start ``paying'' in order to bring additional supply to the market. They will do it, though it will take time. The high prices now are enough of an inducement, but the industry wants to see these prices north of $20 stick for a while before increasing their capital budgets. And that will prevent a crash in oil prices for at least several more years. If OPEC delays any decision on further quota changes until January, as some members said it would, it would effectively preempt OPEC's price band mechanism. The band called for automatic production increases or decreases to keep the average price of seven types of crude oil OPEC monitors between $22 and $28 a barrel.

Raising Output

This mechanism was activated on Sept. 8, and the group increased quotas by 500,000 barrels effective Oct. 1, at which point the count started again. Prices stayed above $28 for an additional 20 trading days, the time span the mechanism needs to be triggered, and OPEC again boosted output quotas by 500,000 barrels, effective October 31. According to Bloomberg estimates, output from all 11 OPEC members reached 29.57 million barrels a day last month, the highest level in 21 years. Yet the additional OPEC oil, plus another 30 million barrels promised for release from the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve, was not enough to bring OPEC's benchmark crude oil price back down into the $22-$28 range.

No Automatic Boost

In fact, the price has been above the $28 ceiling continuously since Aug. 14. The index price recently stood at $31.61 a barrel and based on oil prices so far this month, the next trigger point would have occurred this week. OPEC President Rodriguez said the producers may not automatically boost output again if prices hold above $28 for the required 20 consecutive days. ``We will maintain the band but there are other factors that are impacting the price,'' Rodriguez said. An output rise ``depends on the situation in the market.'' The longer-term supply and demand dynamics of the oil market suggest OPEC's fears of another price collapse are misplaced. And with the group backing away from the price band, we can expect firm prices well beyond the second quarter of 2001.

Black Blade: We can count on sustained higher prices. NG is down a bit due to warm weather forecasts. It was up last week due to cold weather forecasts. Winter isn't quite here yet! Oil dropped yesterday due to a slight increase in inventories when a drop was expected. Some analysts were predicting oil at $20.00/bbl yesterday and that helped to depress prices further. Remember, these were the same guys predicting "$5.00/bbl forever" a couple of years ago. Hmmmm………… Keep in mind that OPEC has plans for cutting production in January.


tedw (11/29/2000; 6:05:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 42442)
Oil and gold
Question:

If all the oil that has ever been drilled by mankind was put in a square hole 50 miles wide by 50 miles deep, how deep would the oil be?

The answer is surprising and is in todays worldnetdaily: www.worldnetdaily.

Which begats another question?
If all the gold ever mined was put in a cube what would its dimensions be? You will have to do some research to answer that one. Let us now.

Pandagold (11/29/2000; 5:41:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42441)
Newmont (Schnitzler's letter) and things
Nickel/162; The Stranger, re Schnitzler

If you had read my posting properly, you would have observed I made NO comment in respect of the letter I reproduced written by a shareholder to the chairman of Newmont. So how could you. in particular Nickel 162, that I was taking sides. It was merely FYI.

However, your responses do illustrate how once a nerve is touched when reading postings, whether intended or not, it can cause us to go firing with all guns blazing and shoot someone without just cause.

So, perhaps a careful second read is necessary, if we feel aroused enough to respond. I know this is sometimes difficult when we are pushed for time and are scanning many postings, and information, on this and other sites.

I am not offended, because, in the past, I have, though not here, been guilty myself.

However, when I read the letter, I felt all the man was upset about was that if Newmont, or all the other mines who are supposed 'squeaky clean', could see, as everyone else seems to now be seeing, what is going on that is damaging the industry (their industry) why don't they speak up. Or, if they feel GATA is wrong, why don't they say so. It isn't peanuts we are talking about.

This, to me, seems fair comment. After all, the drop in Newmont's share price is considerable by anyone's standards. This is no mere 'hole-in-the-ground' gold mining company, it is the US's leader. In comparison, its fall from grace makes NASDAQ look steady. If I were the CEO I would be most concerned. It can make one feel he (and other mining CEO's) know something we don't. And WE are people that don't like not to know, aren't we?

It is amazing to see, at last, WGC changing their stance. I wrote to them about three years ago when I first began to smell a rat. The letter I got back was most defensive of the 'system'. There was absolutely no fear of any manipulative practices in the industry they claimed most vehemently. De da de da.

It proves the old adage "You can fool some of the people some of......................." Like even the best of criminals, they get carried away by success and in the end over do it. People never learn to quit while they are ahead.

Oh, incidentally Hi-Hat, the BMG and Newmont merger is not yet a done deal, so your BMG shares are not yet in your NEM portfolio. Who knows, if the shareholder vote calls for a recount (Florida epidemic), it could drag out for sometime. Meanwhile, gold rises, and/or another predator comes along. As I have said "Maybe I'm a dreamer............."

wolavka (11/29/2000; 5:33:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 42440)
go beans
soybeans are gold

wolavka (11/29/2000; 4:36:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 42439)
Steve H
Good stuff:

Here's one I enjoy and I try to remind myself that there's
life other than the internet:

The clock of life is wound but once,
and no man hath the power
To tell just where the hands will stop
On late or early hour.

Now is the only time you own;

Live, Love, Toil with a will;
Place no faith in tomorrow, for

The clock may then be still.

SteveH (11/29/2000; 4:08:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 42438)
Poetry
from a friend:

While I rarely "forward" e-mail to others (you need send none in return,
unless to even the score). Yet I found these delightful and thought you
might, too.

Regards, Philip


In olden times, it could be decades before major events were cast in verse.
But The Great 2000 Election Controversy is so big that a bunch of all-star
poets have come out of retirement to quickly set the story to rhyme.

For starters, history buff Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:

Listen, my children, don't dare ignore,
The midnight actions of Bush and Gore
In early November, the year ought-ought,
Hard to believe the mess they wrought.
Two billion bucks of campaign bounty
All came down to Palm Beach County.
What result could have been horrider
Than the situation we found in Florider?

Edgar Allen Poe is his usual gloomy self:

Once upon a campaign dreary, one which left us weak and weary
O'er many a quaint and curious promise of political lore
While we nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a yapping,
As of some votes overlapping, energy-zapping to the core
"'Tis a mess here," we all muttered, as the network anchors stuttered,
Stuttered over Bush and Gore.
Could there be another election with such a case of misdirection,
One with such a weak selection, yet fraught with tension to the core?

Quoth the ravers, "Nevermore."

Britain's Edward Lear's limerick is lighter:

There once was a U.S. election
That called for some expert detection -
How thousands of pollers
Could become two-holers
Like outhouses of recollection.

Ditto Ogden Nash:

I regret to admit that all my
knowledge is
What I learned at Electoral
Colleges,
So tell me please, though I hate to troubya,
Will the winner be Al, or will it be Dubya?

Joyce Kilmer's a media analyst:

I thought that I would never see
The networks all so up a tree.

Walt Whitman is lyrical, as always:

O' Captain! My Captain! our
fearful trip's not done
The ship has weather'd every rack,
but nobody knows who's won.

Alfred Noyes rhythmically rumbles:

And still of an autumn night they say, with the White House on the
line,
When the campaign's a ghostly galleon and both candidates cry, "'Tis
mine!"
When the road is a ribbon of ballots, all within easy reach,
A highwayman comes riding,
Riding, Riding,
A highwayman comes riding, and punches two holes in each.

Dr. Seuss takes a look at election officials:

I cannot count them in a box
I cannot count them with a fox
I cannot count them by computer
I will not with a Roto-Rooter
I cannot count them card-by-card
I will not 'cause it's way too hard
I cannot count them on my fingers
I will not while suspicion lingers.
I'll leave the country in a jam -
I can't count ballots, Sam-I-Am.

Clement Moore adopts a holiday theme:

'Twas the month before Christmas, when all through the courts,
All the plaintiffs made stirring bad ballot reports.
Which leaves the problem:
Perhaps the best way to stop complaints that are raucous is
Start over again, with the Iowa caucuses.





wolavka (11/29/2000; 3:48:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 42437)
soybeans overnite
need to drive thru up limit and take silver with them.

SteveH (11/29/2000; 3:47:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 42436)
The Count
Welcome new posters, including Ski, Lois and others.

The election has shed a shadow-revealing cast on the thought process of all politicians. Why? Observe how all the democrats all say the same thing: All we want is for all votes to be counted. I am in awe of the party-line being paraded by most all Gore supporters. I am picking up on a slight change in the party-line, though. Now I am hearing, we want to make sure all votes are hand counted. This has a less-Constitutional ring to it, so Mr. G. continues to use the first mantra because it rings true to high road.

What I see the Democrats have done is to latched onto the only hope they had for victory by raising concerns that every vote has not been counted. This is a confusing position for most because the thought that every vote has not been counted does strike a resonant cord for Americans. But, as more of us discover that what the Gore camp is really saying then the words of "let all votes be counted" ring hollow. Here is, in my opinion, what they are really saying:

-- All the machine-rejected votes that have not been tallied by hand using the standard adapted in Broward County must be recounted to that standard. If they are counted to that standard and allowed to be certified, the our man will win.

Let me see if I clearly understand this? The Democrats have taken the official position that all votes have not been counted. Just about every democrat on TV or in the print media says "Let all the votes be counted" in an attempt to win the "give Gore more time" campaign of public patience. Yet, looking behind the details, we can see that even the Democrats admit that all the votes have indeed been counted. They simply have not been all hand counted using the Broward County standard of counting: all dimpled Chads are a vote, irrespective of real intent of the voter.

So, it would seem that the mantra, "let all votes be counted" really means "let's develop a standard of counting that requires dimpled ballots be considered a vote and then let's count all dimpled ballots."

It is this change of standards that the Republicans are all up in arms over. I say, if you want to re-count by hand all the votes then all dimpled chads must not be considered a vote.

But the issue is deeper than dimpled chads. The election is a snapshot of a day. Extending deadlines, re-votes, and hand recounts of new-standards are all ways of changing the snapshot, a sort of digital enhancement to an anolog balloting process. All these issues are valid, but are not a cause to change an election that has transpired, rather they are issues to be addressed for the next election. Let the count stand as of 14 Novemeber 2000. If our courts can't conclude this, then truly the election and the elected will be a product of who has the better lawyers and this is most certainly not the will of the people.

Finally, if Mr. G. can spin the attempt to get dimpled chad's counted what will he spin gold ownership or the gun-rights issues into when he sees fit to challenge these. Think about that.

wolavka (11/29/2000; 3:30:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 42435)
48 hrs classic
You people listen up, there's a new sheriff in town.

wolavka (11/29/2000; 3:05:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 42434)
keep selling dollar
push this garbage down thru 115 on march index and then let's get serious about bankruptcy for the U.S. Trash the fiat

Topaz (11/29/2000; 2:06:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 42433)
Madness and Gold Bull(ocks)
As this Gold Bullock (a Bull with no Balls here) marches tenuously on and since we're more "off than on" topic lately, here's an interesting tale from OZ…..home of completely and udderly psychologically well adjusted Cows, however, the human equivalent.??? Read on:-
"But I'm lucky to be here" by Maria Billias.
A Darwin man told yesterday how his left arm had to be amputated after being bitten several times by a deadly King Brown snake.
Gordon Lyons said he almost died after his heart stopped 3 times on the operating table at Royal Darwin Hospital.
He spent 7 Weeks in a Coma and was kept alive with a Dialysis machine and ventilator after a king brown bit his arm 2 Months ago.
Mr Lyons, who still has not regained the use of his legs, said doctors revived him 3 times on the Operating Table.
He said, "I'm lucky to be here right now, but I still can't believe my arms been chopped off - just for 1 Snake. I still have my life and I guess that's the most important thing."
Mr Lyons said he was bitten by the snake (considered the most Venomous in the World) after he picked it up on the side of the road near Litchfield.
Mr Lyons, who admitted being Drunk at the time, said he and a mate had been driving from Mandorah to Darwin when they saw it. He said, "I remember the guys at the Mandorah Pub saying they wanted something to put in their large Fish tank. - But I made the stupid mistake of grabbing it with my left hand because I was holding a beer with my right one. I had it's head in my hand but it got loose and grabbed the web of my left hand - it's fangs were that big it ripped my hand open.
I tore it off me and put it in a plastic bag and threw it in the back of the car. For some stupid reason I stuck my hand back in the bag, it must have smelled blood and it bit me another 8 times.
Mr Lyons said he began vomiting and suffering Diahorrea "about 3 seconds later".
He said, "my mate was trying to keep me awake by whacking me in the head and pouring beer over me"
Mr Lyons said his last memory was passing out, covered in blood at the Noonamah Hotel moments before being taken to the Royal Darwin Hospital.
RDH specialist physician Bart Currie said the venom had caused severe damage to Mr Lyons muscles which led to his left arm turning black and becoming "dead".
Dr Currie said "Of all the snake bites in Australia I'm aware of, this man is the sickest to have ever survived!


wolavka (11/29/2000; 1:56:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42432)
coming
The year of the snake

ThaiGold (11/29/2000; 1:52:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 42431)
Selective Silver Shares
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=HL&d=1d
Hecla Mining shares (silver & gold) UP another 15% Tuesday,
after Monday's 30% UP. That's 45% in the past two days.
Another silver miner, often hyped, the one Gates bot into,
was PAAS. It isn't performing near as well as Hecla.


Topaz (11/29/2000; 1:51:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 42430)
Farfel: WGC
Well, I probably wouldn't have gone that far...but thanks for the support.
Good to see you're in fine form...go Nazzie!!(away)

YGM (11/29/2000; 1:46:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 42429)
Coup D'etat 2000 & Madness of Al Gore
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
By Justin Raimondo....Hits the nail on the head....YGM

Farfel (11/29/2000; 1:34:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42428)
@TOPAZ, you are correct, sir re: World Gold Council
Effectively, this Council is comprised of a group of self-serving, anti-gold, bullion bank whores/overhedged gold producer whores who have NEVER done one scintilla of good toward enhancing the value of gold in the eyes of the world.

You would have to be an obtuse, blithering moron paralyzed by senile dementia to imagine the WGC has ever performed any benefits for gold or gold mining companies (excluding the super-hedged sluts like Barrick and Anglogold).

ALL gold mining company shareholders who are incensed with the current dismal status quo in which WGC mining company members aim to destroy the value of gold should complain and do so vociferously. It is entirely insufferable and indefensible to think that a single dollar of shareholder money finds its way into the coffers of the useless effete gold-hating WGC.

The WGC is only good for one thing: disseminating anti-gold info (such as the Jessica Cross report on gold derivatives) for the purpose of driving down the price of gold and benefiting the gold super-hedgers who control the Council.

I only hope that members of this allegedly pro-gold Council will someday face MAXIMUM prosecution for fraudulent misrepresentation of gold shareholders interests.

Thanks

F*



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