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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/28/2004
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Goldless Heathen (6/28/04; 21:22:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 122624)
Waiting for another call to contest?
Well me and the Parrot were all set to write and win that contest, but failed miserably and never even entered. Had the day before off and pages and pages of notes. I learned more about gold, money, confetti and value than I ever imagined. This website, active and archives is just, well ack, a GOLD mine of very useful information. I really want to thank the Hosts and participants for sharing your knowledge so freely and artfully. As I got ready to write last week I got a phone message that my aunt(who had died several years ago) had left me a small inherentence and that it was in the mail. This sent the Parrot into a happy fit; he wanted to buy gold not bother with the contest and the Pirate(that's me) put down his pen and went right to the Apple store and ordered a new laptop. The Parrot doesn't understand that I make the money to buy his crackers with a computer and a new one will allow a broadband connection, so, maybe, more crackers. Yet I still have a nagging feeling; wish I could have done both-bought gold and apples. So will there be another contest? Otherwise my neighbor's offer to buy the bird may have to be taken up.

Toolie (6/28/04; 20:54:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 122623)
Cometose
Traditional popcorn is available in bulk 12# bags for $5 locally at bulk food stores. At a garage sale, I found one of those thin aluminum popcorn poppers with a crank handle for stirring the corn for another $5. It heats up quick, and ALL the kernels pop. Keep the eagles in your pocket, and away from the dentist – I speak from experience.
Oh – hand rolled cigarettes too.


Cometose (6/28/04; 20:27:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 122622)
Strategy #1 on Beating Inflation
Enjoy a glass of Kendall Jackson while reading USAGOLD FORUM accompanied by Pop SECRET butter popcorn with Mustard. No need for company on this voyage as most company will not be able to relate to this LOW FARE Hors Doervre.
After two bags and heavy mustard side, no need for dinner.
While eating the golden mustard think about the opportunity cost of saving in GOld and what that saving will represent when the Poll Shift comes in the global economic environment.


21mabry (6/28/04; 17:32:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 122621)
911
Is there anyway the american goverment has given up on the House of Suad and wants them replaced,and Michael Moore and his movie are serving a usefull purpose in turning the U.S. populace even more against the Saudi regime than they are now.Terrorism is rising to high levels in their kingdom and the royal house seems to be ready for a fall.The loss of U.S. public support could be the catalyst that increases the U.S. role in Saudi Arabia.Will muslims of the world allow the U.S. near mecca?There is an interview with Laurence Gaurdiner out on the web were he speaks of gold in a white powder form as a sourse of medical miracles and also a source that enables inter dimensional travel,kinda wild stuff but interesting interview with this diffrent kind of history writer.21

Ned (6/28/04; 17:21:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 122620)
WGC
Hi guys.

I don't know much about the WGC but I thought Chris Thompson of Goldfields, about a year or two ago, was going to turn this thing around?


mikal (6/28/04; 16:38:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 122619)
@TownCrier
Re:
"World Gold Council: Agent provocateur/saboteur?
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=62402
World Gold Council singing bullion bank tune?"
Yes, they're revealing the supporting role they've held all along.

"The World Gold Council (WGC) has urged the government to grant permission to banks and financial institutions to participate in gold futures trading at the earliest and quickly develop a spot market for gold in the country as Indians buy Rs 40,000 crore of gold annually."

This sounds like WGC is echoing some incessant requests of their constituency, playing middleman to not only justify their weekly paycheck, but to support the concept of derivatives- futures, hedges, etc- currently employed by the major money center banks for the time being?


TownCrier (6/28/04; 16:24:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 122618)
The short version...
The World Gold Councils purports itself to be the marketing agent for its various member mining companies throughout the world.

However, does that WGC stance sound more aligned with the interests of mining institutions, or with bullion banking institutions?

Deep down, maybe they're just about the same thing????

Don't buy what they're selling. Buy the gold instead, and everyone involved will get their just desserts.

R.

TownCrier (6/28/04; 15:22:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 122617)
World Gold Council: Agent provocateur/saboteur?
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=62402
World Gold Council singing bullion bank tune?

(excerpts)
HEADLINE: WGC For Allowing Banks, FIs In Gold Futures Trade

MUMBAI, JUNE 28:  The World Gold Council (WGC) has urged the government to grant permission to banks and financial institutions to participate in gold futures trading at the earliest and quickly develop a spot market for gold in the country as Indians buy Rs 40,000 crore of gold annually.

In a pre-budget memorandum to the government, WGC has pointed out... as the role of the banking sector is restricted to only importing bullion for sale to wholesalers, the Indian banks are not able to actively trade in the spot bullion market and have no influence on the international bullion market, it has pointed out.

Banks and other financial institutions should be allowed to trade on the commodities exchange on "spot price" basis. Banks should also be allowed to develop investment products linked to gold, such as gold-backed certificates/bonds.

As India consumes a significant quantum of gold, with active trading, the Indian banks will have an influence on the international gold market. This will ensure that over time, based on the regulatory framework, India could develop as a major gold trading centre in the world.

Indians invest conservatively about Rs 5,000 crore in gold bars and coins every year, as an instrument of savings. The entire savings is presently completely outside the banking system.

The entire savings of Rs 5,000 crore every year is routed through the informal channel of jewellers and bullion dealers. Over the last 10 years alone, an amount of over Rs 50,000 crore of savings has been channelised into gold bars & coins and all of this remains in the informal sector.

It is imperative that banks be allowed to offer gold backed savings and investment products so that part of the flow of savings into physical gold remain in the more regulated banking sector.

If banks are allowed to offer similar gold savings plan, it will ensure that this particular household saving also remains within the financial sector, with the safety of the savings ensured by the bank.

The quantum of savings lying with the unorganised sector is estimated to be over Rs 8,000 crore. Indian banks should be allowed to give "gold" loans, which is presently 4-5 per cent lower then rupee loans. ...[allowing] the gold held in the gold savings and gold bond accounts to be deployed more productively, the WGC pointed out.

[MEANWHILE...] The government of Dubai has setup a Dubai Metals Trading Corporation (DMTC) with view to develop Dubai as an important gold trading centre in the region.

------(see url for full article)------

From this we get good signs that WGC is not a friend of a free-gold market, apparently preferring instead that banks paperize gold at every turn and thus be able to keep a stranglehold on the unfolding of a physical-dominated influence upon price-discovery. Selling their soul for a bit of control. How sadly pathetic.

R.

USAGOLD Daily Market Report (6/28/04; 14:56:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 122616)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

(excerpts -- closing market rap)

NEW YORK, June 28 (OsterDowJones) - Gold futures on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange endured a choppy ride Monday and briefly scaled over two-month highs early before fading as the session wore on to end the day nearly $2 lower. The most-active Aug contract settled $1.90 lower at $401.30 per ounce.

Aug futures hit $405.60 per ounce and their highest level since April 19 early, as the U.S. Dollar Index's fall to 13-day lows combined with the news of Iraq's early power handover sent players in search of safe-haven assets such as gold.

However, follow-through interest was not heavy as players keep in mind Wednesday's Federal Reserve meeting on interest rates [Randy's note: also Thursday's Governing Council meeting of the ECB] and the associated effects on the U.S. dollar. Dave Meger, analyst at Alaron Trading Corp., said that the midweek Fed meeting was foremost in people's minds. "Definitely the rate decision is the major issue here, as it has been for weeks," he said. "The dollar's weakness today and the Iraq news have obviously been supportive for gold, but the focus remains on what the Fed does on Wednesday."...

Sources noted that for both Aug futures and spot metal, chart-based buyers are expected to be lying in wait at the 100-day moving average around $400 for Aug gold and $398.60 for spot metal. This should provide a solid cushion under prices on both fronts over the near term unless the U.S. dollar strengthens notably against its rivals...

----(see url for access to full news, 24-hr headlines)-----

Current headlines:

Ecuador dollar reserves rise 8.1 pct in week -- Borsa Italiana - News

Rates Rise in Treasury Bill Auction -- Forbes

Treasuries drop as inflation uptick sparks selling -- Borsa Italiana - News

Inflation pressure could turn markets hostile -IMF -- Reuters - Economic News

WGC For Allowing Banks, FIs In Gold Futures Trade -- The Financial Express - Commodity Watch

COMEX gold retreats, Iraq handover confuses bulls -- Borsa Italiana - News


heavy mettle (6/28/04; 12:36:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 122615)
America's Black Budget And Manipulation Of Markets
http://www.rense.com/general54/americasblackbudget.htm
Mapping The Real Deal With Catherine Austin Fitts
Financial Sense NewsHour
Radio & Net Talk Show Presenting
Catherine Austin Fitts w/ Jim Puplava
May 22, 2004 Netcast

Investors benefit from understanding the federal budget, credit policies and covert intervention that drive markets -- often overriding fundamental economics. How has the US governmental apparatus become so powerful in the marketplace and what does it mean to the health of our economy? How unstable is the mortgage bubble and where are the opportunities for investors if the bubble bursts?


Comment: a must read with some humor to soften the edges. Excellent conclusion on why to own gold in ever accumulating amounts. Worth wide distribution.

And for those who just don't get it, "It's your freedom stupid!"


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (6/28/04; 11:19:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 122614)
Your friend in the business, helping you enter the gold market with grace and confidence.
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html





mamoose (6/28/04; 10:00:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 122613)
Belgian 122606

I basically agree with your point of view, although I do question "The remaining, easy accessable oil-reserves for the next 50 years" Firstly, back of the envelope, take all the known proven and probable world reserves of oil and divide by current usage worldwide, never mind projected accelleration (China, et al.) and you will not come up with anything like 50 years.

As Shell has demonstrated, those stated proven and probable reserves are somewhat OVER stated. In the case of the Arabian reserves, there was an incentive to overstate, since quotas were set according to stated reserves. I have not seen an estimate yet that thought the Arabian reserves were not overstated by 50%, and many as high as 80%. What does Black Blade think of this? He is more knowledgable in these matters.

So, that leaves us hitting a brick wall at a time when we are least expecting it, and the damage will be the worse because of it.



Cometose (6/28/04; 08:32:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 122612)
November
Jim Sinclair, over the weekend , made reference again to the Plame affair ( outing of our CIA Noc and the huge network built by Pavett that it undermined in not less than seven nations.

You may rest assured ( that if indictments don't fall on the heads of those responsible....) of the depth of corruption to which not only Congress has fallen but also how that corruption has now leaked over into the court system....

John Dean former White House Counsel to Richard Nixon said that this is item which may seem small on the surface ...is worse than Watergate...

Too bad that Michael Moore is the only voice in the PRESS that was willing and had the courage to stand up and speak to the issues that the rest of the MEDIA has seemed to completely regard as unnewsworthy....

The peoples of this nation have been lulled to sleep and the SYSTEM has SPIRITUAL GANGRENE growing in it ....

THE ONLY THINGs that kill this disease are COURAGE , FREE SPEECH IN ACTION , VISION and WILLPOWER....

Our representatives and members of the press , have non of these.....

If indictments don't come down on those responsible.....it will be a ominous sign..........that our fears have been confirmed ...........that the Republic is lost....

Plan accordingly....

* the Nocs are set up to protect you and your freedom ....
If they are now expendable ........
how about you..........


If history repeats itself and this affair gets underway ,
compare the activities of the Stock Market and GOld to those of the era during Richard Nixon's impeachment
1974-1975 to get a clues as to how this activity may affect the markets......

How will this affect the U S Dollar.........

my my my .................

Knallgold (6/28/04; 08:21:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 122611)
Belgian
Yes Sir.The recent embracing of Ghadafi has to be seen trough the same glasses.I know of the large Swiss imports of oil from Lybia .

Belgian (6/28/04; 08:19:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 122610)
@CM
There are many reasons why the EU wishes (has to) expand more rapidly than normally should be done. Not only for demographic reasons but also to guide economic expansion within the EU borders (internal economy) rather than losing it irriversably to the China (Far East) locations. Turkey is a very special case in the whole equation. The ME situation is making things much more riskier for EU (monetary) integration (convergence). Always bear in mind that it is all about the euro first, before any other kind of convergence will/can follow.

Cavan Man (6/28/04; 07:02:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 122609)
Turkey in EU
Belgian....The Trojan Horse metaphor is perhaps a good one BUT, IMHO, Turkey is needed by the EU for their youth; workers and taxpayers required yes? I've long puzzled over the US insistence that Turkey join the EU. History advise we ALL consider the Turks with a juandiced eye.

Toolie (6/28/04; 06:39:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 122608)
Threat of shocks still hangs over world economic recovery: BIS
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/92555/1/.html
Snip: GENEVA : The Bank for International Settlements warned major economies to manage the growing pace of the global economic recovery carefully, as it questioned their ability to adapt to the changing face of the world economy and to prevent shocks.
…….
But it pointed to imbalances in Europe, Japan, as well as in the motors of the current upswing, the United States and China, to warn about the dangers of an unexpected acceleration in inflation, asset price bubbles -- notably house prices -- and the impact of other structural shifts.
……
Technological developments and freer-flowing trade with the world's most populous nations, China and India, encourage faster growth and have made financial markets more resilient, it said.

However, financial liberalisation may have let markets over-react to cyclical changes in the economy, while "perceptions of wealth" now appear to count more than tangible data. (end snip)
/////////////////////////////////////////////////

This BIS isn't likely to pick up the phone and dial CPM for you, about the only excuse that they have left us with is "I really wanted to stock up on TANGIBLE wealth, but my finger was broke".


Chris Powell (6/28/04; 06:34:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 122607)
Reg Howe discovers that the gold and silver price suppression schemes are the same
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/2256
Studying BIS reports on derivatives, GATA consultant
Reg Howe determines that the gold and price price
suppression schemes are the same.


To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com




Belgian (6/28/04; 05:28:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 122606)
@KnallGold
Up until further order, everything,...EVERYTHING *must* be seen from the oil-standpoint. The remaining, easy accessable oil-reserves for the next 50 years are located under the Arabian sands. It is NOT the oilprice that is the most important...it is OIL-SECURITY...reliable oil-flows...FLOWS, to all !!! Turkey is an extremely important "bridge-head" towards these sandy oil-fields (reserves).

We are not going to send (a) Rommel back to the desert, KnallGold (smile). But there will come an appropiate moment for having Turkey under the euro. But this time, it must be achieved peacefully. Wir sind alle broeder, nicht !?
Take your world map and look at the oil-gas-corridors (pipelines and seatransport. Then think deep about the question WHY there is a real broad coalition on Afghanistan and not on Iraq (ME)...for the time being !!! And you will come to the conclusion that it always boils down to dollar-euro-oil-Gold matters !. And all observers, stubbornly keep on refusing to combine these 4 parameters in their comments and views.

Belgian (06/28/04; 05:00:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 122605)
@986
Barosso is a colorless figure (ex communist student)(not a visionair)...a typical compromis figure. Failed in his peace mediation efforts (foreign affairs minister) in oil-rich Angola...was involved in the oil-rich East Timor affairs (independance). He put some order in Portugal's financial affairs (gold-commitments-?) and is a supporter of US troops in Iraq. Euroland doesn't want (yet) to slam the doors for the UK. Consensus diplomacy...euro-styling...remember !?
On a sidenote : A lot of UK money is being invested in the development of the new Eastern Euroland states !!! Capice ?

986 : Note that the (rising) bulk of (CB) reserve-dollars, whereever they might be, cannot be unloaded, exchanged !!!
We are talking about a fast growing TRILLION stash of dollar-reserves. Who wants a currency (A DEBT PAPER ALREADY) that is in the process of losing its global support !!!-???
This dollar-diaspora was possible because of its Gold-redeemability up until 1971 and then because of its oil-importance (utility)...up until the existance of the euro ! These dollar-units can't even be returned to sender...adress known ...but receiver refusing to accept...laladidoedada (Elvis)!

Note : Forget about the projected elections in Iraq by januari '05.

Knallgold (06/28/04; 04:37:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 122604)
Turkey/EU
The "Turkish Trojan horse",I have noticed that too (not for the first time).Question is,are the Euro politician smart enough to get that?Schröder/SPD seems to be a supporter of Turkey into the EU,probably for election reasons.The CDU opposition in Germany is against it-but for how long?

The argument I grown up with is to have a "buffer" nation in the NATO -Turkey.But NATO is not the EU.Not sure Marocco would better fit here either.I think we can have a functional Europe without going imperialistic into the old (roman) empires borders.



Belgian (06/28/04; 04:23:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 122603)
Oil-flow security....
The US-Euroland-Japan, always found each other at the crucial points concerning the security of oil. China as the fastest growing oil-intaker, is NOT in this old alliance !!!
This is (and will remain) a complicating factor in the coming shifts within the old alliances (read geopolitics).

This coming quarter up to the november US elections, is a going to be a very funny one. Today, with the (surprise-?) handover of power to the Iraqi interim government (hum-?),
oil and stockmarket futures make "nice", pro dollar, moves.
On top of this, the financial colluders are almost guaranteeing the masses that up until '05, everything will be OK ! Isn't this a wonderfull world !? No major negative financial shocks are to be expected for the next 6 months.
How touching.

One man, Bremer is leaving Iraq (the ME) but 150,000 other men are staying...
An incredible...unholdable cost for oil-security ! That, while the chinese (and Russians) do profit from it, also !!!

It is impossible that such a situation can remain on a status quo for an extended period of time (next quarter-Q3-4).

Keep on watching the €-$ exchange rate as to see when China and Russia are increasingly exchanging dollar-reserves, at a faster pace, for euro and Gold-reserves !!! Watch if a €-POG above 11,000 €/Kg results in a more stable (to lower) $-oilprice. FreeGold for oil security !

Ned (06/28/04; 04:22:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 122602)
GAB
"Israel is very nervous about this, and will shortly attack Iran."

Please give us a time frame for 'shortly'. Thank you.

Further, your message is nearly exact to the tune of Sinclair. Are you a staunch fan of his? Your message is indeed 'scarey' as you warn, why not infiltrate Saudi. Why nuke Iran?

TIA

968 (06/28/04; 01:42:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 122601)
@Belgian
Morning Belgian, what do you know about Barroso ?

968 (06/28/04; 01:36:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 122600)
@GAB / A political post
Goodmorning GAB !
Instead of attacking the US military, wouldn't it be a lot easier for Japan and China just to dump their all their US$-assets ?

Belgian (06/28/04; 01:14:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 122599)
Interesting to know that....
President Bush (Istambul) insisted again on having Turkey within the EU. The dollar...wishing to push the Turkish Trojan horse...under the euro (EMU) umbrella !? But Eurolanders are guided to Marocco...as holiday destination and the enthousiasm for the Turkish resorts is cooling.

Not the Belgian liberal (France-Germany candidate), but the Portugese conservative christian, Barroso will replace Prodi as EC president. Belgian candidature was vetoed by UK. Barosso (oilman) should be a transatlantic bridge builder !? Portugal, still sitting on a disproportionate big stash of Gold and a (halfharted) Bush/Blair intermedair...dollar supporter within EU.

This are two examples as to illustrate how the dollar-euro struggle (competition) keeps evolving. In the mean time, available Physical Gold, needed (used) to keep the dollar-papergold-market alive, is running short...out !
Less physical gold reaching the right destinations is causing the constant high...higher $-POO due to low...lower oil-flow ! The oil-tap(s) (+ exploration) and the gold-tap(s)...clockwise and counter clockwise.

Euroland sending more troops to Afghanistan (pipeline projects) and soon, South African Gold (and gold-expertise)will find its way to...Russia. FreeeeeeGoooooooold !?



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