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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/28/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

DOWNUNDER (06/28/02; 22:31:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 79446)
The Effects of the New S. African Mining Law - - - From another site
The effects of the new S. African mining law

We've received several e-mails expressing concern over the passage of a new law in South Africa that aims at transforming the country's mining industry by giving the government control of mineral rights.

The following letter from one of our subscribers aptly sums up the recent concern among investors in the South African mining share market: "I just read that there is a new law just passed that socializes the mining industry in South Africa. Previously mineral rights were privately owned, now they will be owned by the government, licenses will have to be obtained. South Africa's Mineral and Energy Minister said the law was aimed at allowing good quality ore currently in the hands of big mining houses to pass into black hands. How will this affect the ownership of these South African mining stocks in your opinion?"

First, a little background on this important issue is necessary. Under the new legislation that was passed on Tuesday, June 25, by South Africa's parliament, mining companies will be able to dig only under government license. The legislation brings South Africa's mining industry in line with the laws of other major mining nations such as Australia and Canada, and therefore is not the big earth-shattering developing that some investors think it is.

Another point worth considering is that the South African gold share market in general has already taken this into account and knows in advance what the outcome will be! This is because the "insiders" always know the inside score on important issues like this well in advance of the public. Rest assured that the South African government will not take liberties with the country's largest gold, platinum and chromium producers without consulting with its bread-and-butter in the form of companies like Durban Deep, Harmony, and Gold Fields.

If anything, this new law merely strengthens the monopoly of a few mining concerns and keeps out unwanted competition in the form of start-up ventures since prospective mining companies must now seek government permission to mine in South Africa. Perhaps we are being cynical, but we can't help believing that whatever happens will come out to the advantage of DROOY the company and not to the South African people who supposedly would benefit by such a change. All we can really do is watch the tape and chart and let them guide us through. If something drastically terrible were going to happen to the South African gold mining stocks it would have already manifested itself in the charts.

A case could easily be made that the new S.A. mineral nationalization law could actually work to the benefit of gold stock prices since investors are deeply concerned over this issue, which is to say that the S.A. mining share market will be climbing the proverbial "wall of worry" in upcoming months. And we all know that the "worry wall" is typically a bullish one.

Confirming this viewpoint, Charles de Vaulx, co-manager of First Eagle SoGen Gold Fund, also doesn't believe the new law will affect the prices of South African mining stocks to any noticeable extent. His fund is up 88% over the 15 months ending in March.

Currently, de Vaulx favors the large South African mining companies. Concerns about political risk and the new mining law have driven shares lower. So he's buying. He adds that large producers, such as Gold Fields Limited and Harmony Gold, benefit from the rand, South Africa's weak currency.

Another point worth considering is that the charts of the leading South African gold mines tell a tell of a continued upward trend since the uptrend line that exist in most of these leading golds since January is still intact. Stocks like Gold Fields, Harmony, Rand Gold, Anglo Gold, ASA, and Golden Star all share this common outlook of having unbroken interim uptrends. The passage of the landmark legislation has done nothing to change this, and remember, the insiders ALWAYS know in advance what the outcome will be. That's why charts have predictive power and can be used to forecast price trends since the chart is nothing more than a distillation of ALL known fundamentals as well as future expectations. And the charts for the S.A. golds do not expect devastation of their industries anytime soon as is evident in the charts.

The bottom line is that the passage of the mineral rights bill is nothing for investors in S.A. gold mining shares to be alarmed over. If it were, the market would have blown the whistle long before its passage.
Clif Droke
June 27, 2002

Clif Droke is the editor of the weekly Bear Market Report, a combined forecast and analysis of U.S. stocks and indices and international precious metals stocks, and is the author of numerous books on finance and investing, including "How to Trade & Invest in Gold & Gold Stocks."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps this article will help allay any fears that may exist within the forum re this paticular issue. Downunder


TheJuniorMiner (06/28/02; 21:54:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 79445)
Lets think positive

Gold goes up and down, it still seems to be on an uptrend. Can't always have it your way.

Have a few interesting topics.
Concerning the stock market.... JDS Uniphase, Lucent and AT&T. 3 stocks that have been reduced by a whopping $600 billion in market value in 2-3 years. JDSU has lost $80 billion in the last 2 years and still it trades for $2.67 and net is still $3.7 billion. Lost 20 times it net in 2 years. JDSU came public at a share equivelent of .43 cents--probably more than it is worth now. I'ts customers must be happy 'bout the great subsidy, huh?
35% of it sales are to AT&T and Lucent.

Lucent... market value of $272 billion now down to $8 billion. Lost $16 billion in the last 7 quarters. ATT... market value $216 billion and now $37 billion. Lost $5.2 billion last 5 quarters.

Now talk about deflation!
I pose the question "who would buy this stuff"?
450 million of these shares traded this week.


I'm wondering which one will follow Sunbeam, Enron, WorldCom, Adelphia, Global Crossing.... first.

Seems some patience and a slight change in discussion could help. The stock market is in very deep stuff and we may have only seen the beginning. Not to say thease three "cook books" but they have been loosing lots of "fiat".

Like to see which other biggies you all think could go this way. I'll keep a tally.







Topaz (06/28/02; 21:39:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 79444)
darkhorse
http://www.g8.utoronto.ca/g7/summit/2002kananaskis/hipc.html
The IMF has, in the past conducted Gold "swaps" or more precicely "revaluations" to fund these initiatives from their Gold pool....a Noble gesture to be sure...however it remains to be seen whether future "assistance" follows the same "PoG neutral" path.
IMF site will also provide info on past methodology.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/hipc.htm

Cheers.

darkhorse (06/28/02; 20:47:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 79443)
@Topaz
"...lots of HIPC type noise..."

pardon my ignorance but, what is that?

Topaz (06/28/02; 20:27:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 79442)
CB Gold sales.
Maybe.... impending IMF action (lots of HIPC type noise out of the G8 this week)....maybe.....the Boyz, so damn short anyway...the difference between eg: 5% cover and 2.5% cover allows for DOUBLE the short pos'n.....and thats a scary scenario.....POG sub-$255 possibly.... sub-$300 probably.
Lease rates comatose, all donward pressure in NY, Paper plays for sure and certain.
A classic defence: Short the Miners, Buy and hold tight the Physical.

steady (6/28/02; 20:04:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 79441)
more good stuff
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/alberta1030.html

Trick or Treat?


Novus Ordo Seclorum* and China

(*) novus ordo seclorum: meaining "new world or secular order"
appears on the back of US One Dollar Bills

on the eve of the Hallowed Eve...October 30, 1997

The coincidence of the bungy chord antics of world markets on Monday October 27 and Tuesday October 28, 1997 and the highly suspicious Swiss "intention" to sell gold the prior week sinking gold to 10 year lows increasingly points to the possibility that the secular world is engaging as it should or as it is planned. Alan Greenspan in his October 29th address acknowledged the current turmoil in world stock markets, but said the turbulence might look like a "salutary event" (for good purpose) in a few years. What may we ask Mr. Greenspan is the desired outcome of such good purposed events? Even some doubting and pragmatic goldbugs are now wondering about the peculiar timing of the Swiss intention to sell gold no sooner than 1999 and the decompression of the Hong Kong and Asian markets. Are these events part of an orchestrated web of planned chess moves by some enlightened fraternity; part of a massive confidence game being waged on a scale unprecedented in human history for the holy grail: novus ordo seclorum (the new world order)? Gold,


steady (6/28/02; 19:23:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 79440)
another and red barron
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/baron1110.html
after reading anothers words i began serching for red barronon gold eagle and had no luck > wonder if anyone else has had that problem? at leat till today. there it is red barrons stuff . im pumped i found it. site master please allow me to repost it next week during peak traffic time . i just found it and had to post it now. off to read
gold get u some more and give it a silver lining!


R Powell (6/28/02; 18:47:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 79439)
Price movement
From Jon Warner's daily report, (Thanks Mr. Blade)
"Persistent investment bank selling amid low volume trade triggered resting sell orders just below the $315 level within the last 10 minutes of trading..."
Jon also reports that the POG recovered on short covering (?) from the $310 level to close around $315. That's impressive after being blindsided.

Derivative positions are marked-to-market at certain time intervals. Today marks not only the end of the month but the end of the second quarter. Wasn't there a time when those needing a lower POG could contain it most any time at will? Can this only be accomplished now by ambush at 10 minutes before closing on the last possible day? No matter, the mark-to-market is now complete and all is well with the notional value of the books for this quarter. Someone please remind us of this near the end of September as it will be interesting to see if this strategy is employed again.
Will those who ambushed today (washing out the weak hands), now become buyers on Monday, knowing that the sell off was their own doing and that without their further downward pressure, the POG is likely to rebound. Those that attacked today (JPMC?) have no allegiance (whether under God or not) to the short side. If they think a rebound is imminent, they'll go long even if they do hold massive longer term shorts. Who knows, maybe the Wiz is right, maybe this is the last hammering before the big long? Other thoughts???
Happy Weekend!
Rich

Black Blade (6/28/02; 18:35:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 79438)
Re: Huascar

I just stepped in quick before stepping out again so I'll be brief. Opposing POV are no problem as I see it. Hell, I have had running discussions with others here where we disagree. If you see the POG retracing then fine as long as you can present reasons why you think it should. Where problems have arisen is when some have used off color language (some probably have reservations of how I say things at times), personally attack other posters, promotion of stock, companies, competitors to USAGOLD, etc. Essentially what is listed in the posting guidelines. Other than that - welcome aboard.

- Black Blade

MO VER MEG (6/28/02; 18:30:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 79437)
clint h
Re: message 79425

Clint H

My comments on Bush's veracity are based on a file full of correspondances I have sent and received over the past two years pertaining to the illegal manipulation of silver prices. Based on my personal experiences, Bush's "sincere" patronization doesn't cut it. So the point is to not be too quick to buy into his down home sincerity spin.

The belly button thing - a bit juvenile but true.

Old Yeller (6/28/02; 18:06:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 79436)
"GAAP-that was supposed to be the GOLD STANDARD in disclosure
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/27/business/27GLOB.html?ex=1025841600&en=44482924e63d5480&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA

"What is lacking in the US is a culture of shame.No CEO in the US is considered a thief if he does something wrong.It is a kind of moral cancer."

"But,now,a growing number of Europeans are convinced that the American system is both too complex and too easy to manipulate."

Ah,there's that M word again,funny how it crops up so often
with the words,'American system'.

What is a dollar but a measuring device.But the measuring device has the exact same problems as the 'American system',managed by people of similiar moral fiber and principles of fairness and equality as the vilified CEO's and accounting firms.

How can the system be faulted for being dishonest and of nebulous accountability when the lifeblood that sustains it
is just as tainted?

I'd like to see Bush,Greenspan or even Ari Fleischer attempt to answer that question.

As if they ever would.

Dont know who originally said this,but if the shoe fits,

'The foundation rots from the bottom up,never from the top down,except in matters of moral character.'




misetich (6/28/02; 16:52:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 79435)
How strong is your insurance company?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,145-340022,00.html
Snip:

GROWING fears over the financial strength of life insurance companies is prompting many advisers to ask just how safe are the savings of their clients. Are the funds of millions of pension savers and endowment holders secure? Two years of falling share prices, not helped by the $4 billion (£2.6 billion) fraud uncovered this week at WorldCom, the US telecoms group, have wreaked havoc with balance sheets of some of the UK's biggest insurers. So far, this has been reflected in lower returns for with-profits savers.
There appears to be no immediate danger of an insurer going out of business. But if the stock market continues to slide, industry experts say that some companies will be in serious trouble. Were the FTSE 100 index of London shares, currently trading at about 4,580, to plunge to 3,000, then the solvency of even the big names will be tested.

.............

At the root of the insurers’ predicament is the two-and-a-half-year bear market in shares. The bulk of insurers’ with-profits funds are invested in equities, with some companies having as much as 80 per cent in UK and overseas shares. Some insurers have recently increased their exposure to bonds, but shares remain the favoured investment.

Most leading markets have lost 25 per cent of their value from their peak and there is little sign of an imminent upturn. The ever decreasing stock market is depriving insurers of the cushion of excess capital that is the basis of the with-profits ideal.

.............

A mark of the desperation of insurers is shown by the growing use of accounting techniques to dress up the balance sheet. Research by The Times this week revealed that ten of the UK's 16 leading insurers have booked up to £5.7 billion in profits that they have yet to earn to boost their apparent financial strength. This is like counting next year's salary as an asset.


Experts fear that even if the stock market makes a recovery, insurers will be forced to hold back the fruits of a rising market to re-establish the excess capital that they have lost.

But what if any stock market rise comes too late for insurers struggling at the margins of solvency? A second event as dramatic as Equitable Life's closure to new business after a House of Lords ruling forced it to honour pledges to holders of guaranteed annuity policies, is relatively unlikely.

But Mr Cazalet believes that more insurers will quietly close their doors to new members — as Royal & SunAlliance, which has two with-profits funds causing concern to analysts, did last year.


Misetich

Is there an alternative investment "insurance policy?"

Got gold?

misetich (6/28/02; 16:40:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 79434)
O'Neill says govt faced using 'fraudulent' measures if debt limit not raised
http://www.afxpress.com/afxpress2/afx/story_41697.xml.html
Snip:

WASHINGTON (AFX) - Had Congress not raised the debt limit last night, the Treasury Department faced the prospect of taking possibly fraudulent measures to keep under the ceiling -- emulating the corporate accounting scandals of recent months, said Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.

"If it had not been increased, it would have put we in the Treasury in the position where we would have had to make a choice between defaulting (on debt payments) or... using shaky, I might even say potentially fraudulent, accounting devices to paper over a lack of action by the Congress," O'Neill told reporters.

"I'm very pleased we didn't reach that point, because... I do not think we in the Treasury should put ourselves in the position of where we could be accused... of following the horrendous accounting policies and practices that have come to the surface in private companies in recent months," he added.
...................

The Treasury Secretary said Congress should look at abolishing the debt limit, which only serves to put a question mark over the future willingness of the US government to fulfil its debt payment obligations.

This is important because "we must and we will set the standard for integrity in accounting practices and policies," he said.

.................

Misetich

O'Neil is a lose cannon - Obviously he misses the point on fiscal responsibility - and counting on foreigners to continue on financing the US debt indefinetely -

Secondly, it is bizarre on how " we must and we will set the standard for integrity in accounting practices and policies"

on the one hand

and " Had Congress not raised the debt limit last night, the Treasury Department faced the prospect of taking possibly fraudulent measures to keep under the ceiling "

on the other

Perhaps O'Neil was venting off as he usually does - as he's finding the adjustment from CEO to politics - harder than he imagined - however his candor provides little comfort to US debtors - as he by his own admission was planning and premiditating conducting fraudlent measures-

Got gold?


Boilermaker (6/28/02; 16:22:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 79433)
Huascar First Post
Speaking for myself I usually appreciate seeing new views and dissenting opinion at this forum. We also have a bouncer who will toss you back into the street when you cross the line. Your initial inquiry sounds a bit confrontational. My advice would be to review the posts from the forum to get a sense of its personality and be diplomatic with your comments so as not to stir things up. We have some incredibly intelligent people posting here. If you don't have time to read the posts of others I would suggest another forum for your ideas. Good luck.

Gandalf the White (6/28/02; 16:19:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 79432)
WELCOME Sir Huascar !! (please see answer to your Q. )
Huascar (6/28/02; 15:13:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 79430)
First post ever here
I confess to not reading as much as I would like here (because of time constraints), but I got booted from another site for talking about gold's correction not being over yet. Before I continue, I would like to know what the policy is here on dissenting opinion please...
===
Please re-read the rules of conduct and then let us all hear what you are thinking ! There are as many points of view as there are posters on some days. Dissenting opinions are encouraged, IF they are presented in a "KIND" and "THOUGHTFUL" manner. We do not like "FOOD FIGHTS" at the TABLEROUND and courtesy is rewarded with polite thoughtful responses. This is NOT a "cutting one liner" type board !
Let us hear what is on your mind.
<;-)


misetich (6/28/02; 16:00:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 79431)
What happened to the budget surplus?
Snip:

But the deadlock has highlighted the extent to which America's fiscal situation has deteriorated. The projected long run of budget surpluses that Mr Bush inherited has vanished, at least for the time being. The sharp fall in tax revenues this year—which appears to have taken government officials by surprise—has put added pressure on the budget numbers and thus pushed the government close to the overall borrowing limits set by Congress. Once the president signs the new bill, that limit will go up by $450 billion.

............



http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1211096

Snip from ANOTHER SOURCE

However, last week Mr Greenspan told the Senate he was now reasonably confident there would be enough money both to reduce taxes and the federal debt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1145000/1145498.stm

Misetich:
How is it possible to maintain investor, public confidence in elected and appointed government/federal reserve officials when time proves them so incompetent at their job

Got gold?



Huascar (6/28/02; 15:13:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 79430)
First post ever here
I confess to not reading as much as I would like here (because of time constraints), but I got booted from another site for talking about gold's correction not being over yet. Before I continue, I would like to know what the policy is here on dissenting opinion please...



Old Yeller (6/28/02; 15:13:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 79429)
Supply-siders and' targeting' the $POG
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=991&FS=The+Supply%2DSide+Gold+Standard%3A+A+Critique

Some well thought counter-points to that overly smug Wanniski fellow by one of my favorite Austrian economists.

The conclusion says it all.

They fear us because they are weak.

misetich (6/28/02; 15:03:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 79428)
Numbers Don't Lie, Bushes Do
http://www.almartinraw.com/column50.html
Snip:

Deconstructing the National Debt means understanding the difference between GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) and BFAP (Bush Fantasyland Accounting Principles).

According to BFAP, the figure for the publicly stated National Debt is $5.65 trillion. When the National Debt is deconstructed in terms of GAAP, however, you'll find that the accumulated National Debt is closer to $14 trillion.

This figure can be calculated by plugging in debt (either current or future debt, which will have to paid) that is not included in the BFAP numbers. The $5.65 trillion number comes principally from the accumulated Social Security deficit of $3.2 trillion, combined with some provisions for the 3% non-marketable US Treasury notes that have been inserted into the other 43 Public Trust Funds. They have made unrealistic projections regarding the so-called "mandated spending gaps," which are actually much higher than the figures they use.


Misetich

AL MARTIN is America's foremost whistleblower on government fraud and corruption. A retired US Navy Lt. Commander and former officer in the Office of Naval Intelligence, he has testified before Congress (the Kerry Committee and the Alexander Committee) regarding Iran-Contra.

Got gold?

misetich (6/28/02; 14:55:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 79427)
Bush: 'Don't fudge the numbers' - to corporations whilst US government fudges numbers
Snip:

US President George W Bush has warned that big companies cannot "fudge the numbers" and hope to get away with it.
In an appeal for boardroom honesty, he pledged that his Justice Department would hold accountable any firms engaging in corruption and deceit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2073000/2073168.stm

Snip from ANOTHER SOURCE

As readers may know, the US government does not use GAAP in its accounting. Therefore, Congress asked the General Accounting Office (GAO) to begin preparing an annual CFS that would provide accurate GAAP reporting of the US government's financial accounts. These reports were to be prepared and dated as of September 30th, which is the government's fiscal year-end.

I hadn't looked at the CFS for a number of years because they were not very detailed, and also because they included some major errors in accounting. For example, the CFS booked the US Gold Stock as an asset at its market value, but only recorded the corresponding liability for US Treasury Gold Certificates at $42.22 per ounce. This difference of course overstated the government's true net worth, or I should say, net deficit. For the fact is that according to GAAP, the US government has a negative net worth - negative $5.0 trillion in 1997 and negative $5.9 trillion in 2000.

http://www.reformation.org/bundesbank_owns_us_gold.html

Misetich

Readers can draw their own conclusion

Got gold?



Siochain (6/28/02; 14:52:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 79426)
House of Mirrors: Beware July 31
http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20020627-thu.html#anchor0
Article referenced in the Bentley Arnold by Stephen Roach is quite disturbing as to what may soon be coming out:
arts:

" Corporate America is not alone in cooking its books. Washington statisticians seem poised to join the restatement sweepstakes with a stunning rewrite of the recent performance of the US economy. So much for the boom!

Each July, when many of us head to the beach, the guys with the green eyeshades are hard at work in Washington. They are compiling the so-called benchmark revision of the national economic statistics -- an annual restatement of recent economic history based largely on more complete (and presumably more accurate) samples of underlying activity. This particular benchmark revision is slated to be released on 31 July. Mark that day on your calendar.

There are already some important straws in the wind that hint at what can be expected in the upcoming benchmark revision of the national statistics -- a significant downward adjustment to GDP growth over the three-year revision period, 1999-2001. The government actually pre-releases some of the source data that form the basis of this statistical exercise. Based on this intelligence, downward revisions are likely on three fronts -- capital spending, foreign trade in services, and personal income. The reworking of capital spending seems likely in light of a downward revision to shipments of nondefense capital goods, as recently reported in the 2000 Survey of Manufacturers. The lowering of the surplus in services trade was telegraphed by the just-released revisions of the US Census Bureau. And the downward revisions in personal income come from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics’ so-called ES-202 survey -- the primary benchmark for wage and salary disbursements.

Rest assured of one thing -- these downward revisions are not likely to be trivial. For example, shipments of nondefense capital goods are now estimated to have increased only 5% in 2000, half the previously estimated 10% gain. In addition, the surplus in services trade for 2001 was lowered by more than 10%, from $79 billion to $69. Moreover, the reductions in private wage and salary disbursements could be at least $100 billion in 2000, enough to slice more than one percentage point off the growth rate of total personal income. The precise magnitude of the revisions, insofar as their impact on overall GDP growth is concerned, is hard to determine at this point. The real GDP growth rates of record currently stand at 4.1% for both 1999 and 2000. Based on back-of-the-envelope calculations, it wouldn't surprise me at all if aggregate growth were lowered by at least one percentage point in either or both of these years.

Of equal importance is what the prospective revisions are likely to say about the character of the US economy as it neared the end of the now-fabled boom. The income revisions hint at a downward adjustment to the already anemic level of personal saving. Dick Berner informs me there is some possibility that a downward adjustment in retail sales may imply an offsetting reduction in personal consumption. That may well be true, but my experience tells me that income revisions typically outweigh those on the spending side of the equation -- especially since the retail sales sample has had such a difficult time measuring the rapidly growing e-commerce portion of consumption. As it currently stands, the personal saving rate is estimated at a near rock-bottom 1.6% in 2001, up fractionally from the record low of 1.0% in 2000. I wouldn't be surprised to see both numbers pruned significantly.

The foreign trade revisions could up the ante on America's current-account conundrum -- a key point of tension in the US and global economy that I have been stressing for some time. That would dovetail nicely with the likely downward revision in personal saving. After all, a saving-short US economy has no choice but to rely on foreign capital to close its saving-investment gap. A wider current-account deficit implies an even greater capital-account surplus than we had previously been led to believe -- underscoring the distinct possibility that America has been even more dependent on foreign capital inflows than we had previously thought. Little wonder the dollar is now under such pressure, as foreign investors reconsider their once seemingly voracious appetite for dollar-denominated assets.

... A downward adjustment is probably in the works for the recent productivity trend. The accompanying reduction of capital spending fits this revisionist script quite nicely. To the extent that the recent productivity bonanza was nothing more than the arithmetic by-product of "capital deepening," there should be a close correspondence between a reduced pace of capital spending and lower growth in output-per-hour. And so another key building block of the New Economy gets called into serious question.

... While the government's national income accountants are hardly in the same boat as those at Arthur Andersen, both groups of professionals appear to be guilty of having overstated much of what was supposedly so glorious about the New Economy. We have a saying in America, "What goes around, comes around." Sadly, the numbers we were all told to trust have simply turned out to be wrong -- wrong for companies, wrong for the economy at large, and wrong in the eyes of financial markets. I guess the words of Benjamin Disraeli will always haunt me, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Such are the painful excesses of any bubble. WorldCom is not the end of this saga.






Clint H (6/28/02; 14:51:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 79425)
MO VER MEG (msg#: 79390)

MO, do you have a belly button? So do I and everyone else on this forum. Nothing I can tell you about mine that will help the gold market. What do your comments have to do with the gold market?

TownCrier (6/28/02; 14:49:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 79424)
HEADLINE: COMEX gold drops as central banks intervene on dlr
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020628/markets_precious_2.html
NEW YORK, June 28 (Reuters) - Central bank intervention to prop up the dollar pulled the rug out from under COMEX gold on Friday, upending early gains and sending futures to a six-week low as bulls turned tail en masse.

Much of the capitulation came suddenly before the close, which left August gold (GCQ2) at $313.90 an ounce, down $5.70, or 1.8 percent.

...Estimated final volume was a busy 45,000 contracts, almost half of which came in the last few minutes of trade.

"It took out $316 with stops below that level and just hammered the market on those stops," said David Meger, analyst at Alaron Trading in Chicago. $310 was the obvious point of the movement but when we said that we weren't expecting to get that in the next three minutes."

The long position on the COMEX has been a growing impediment as gold [i.e., paper futures contracts] ran out of new buyers.

...The dollar was firm against the yen after the Bank of Japan led the intervention to prevent a rising yen from choking off Japan's export-led recovery. The greenback failed to stay up against the euro, but still ended above the 28-month low hit at $0.9990 per euro in the morning.

----------(click URL for full article)-------

Seriously, is this *REALLY* about stemming a rampant currency (the Yen), or is it about propping the dollar from sliding into chaos?

It is a fair question, because it is the euro, not the Yen, that has been rampant, and nobody's raising a fuss to try to quash the rising euro. If you check the boards you'll see that over the past one year, the yen has gotten weaker against the euro (i.e., euro has risen) from 105 yen/euro a year ago to over 118 yen/euro today.

Consider today's coordinated management, and all that has transpired since WorldCom hit the fan, a personal pre-Independence Day gift of time to you -- time to restructure your portfolio to avoid the inevitable mess.

For surely, if the ongoing strength of your portfolio depends upon the actions of goverments and central banks to keep it propped up against disruptive losses (as we are seeing these days), then you might as well consider yourself right now a case for welfare.

That doesn't sound like you, does it? So, buy gold and take control of your own destiny.

R.

misetich (6/28/02; 14:46:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 79423)
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm
Ceiling has been raised

06/27/2002 $6,018,752,489,419.85






Black Blade (6/28/02; 14:43:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 79422)
SEC Asleep At The Wheel?
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news_analysis/story.jsp?story=309800

It was once a feared watchdog. So why did the SEC fail American investors? Former SEC boss admits reforms were stymied by intense lobbying on Capitol Hill

Snippit:

The WorldCom scandal has thrown the spotlight on America's Securities and Exchange Commission as never before. The main US financial regulator was once seen as the most powerful and feared watchdog in the world. Now it stands accused of failing to push through regulatory changes that would have helped prevent the series of US corporate meltdowns running from Global Crossing to Enron and on to WorldCom.

Black Blade: Much of this can be attributed to bribery ….., uh,….errr, …… I mean "Campaign Contributions" – yeah that's the ticket. It's hard to be objective when the bosses hands are being greased by the target of investigation.



Black Blade (6/28/02; 14:36:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 79421)
SEC reported probing 'number of' audit cases
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/179/business/SEC_reported_probing_number_of_audit_cases+.shtml

Snippit:

ASHINGTON - The Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating ''a number'' of possible audit-independence abuses by US accounting firms, an SEC official said yesterday as the agency announced a $400,000 fine of Ernst & Young's Dutch affiliate. ''There may well be audit-independence cases coming down soon, including some involving the Big Four accounting firms,'' the SEC's associate enforcement director, Paul R. Berger, said in an interview.


Black Blade: The rash of scandals is far from over. I expect to see only institutional investors in the market from now on. People are ticked off and who can blame them. Their hopes and dreams have vanished as companies slip off into oblivion. It will get worse. Today Xerox was our "Scandal Of The Day".

A Scandal A Day Keeps The Investor Away!



Black Blade (6/28/02; 14:28:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 79420)
Bank of England warns of risks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2069000/2069391.stm


Snippit:

Panic in the US could easily hit these shores, the Bank says. The Bank of England has warned that there are potential risks to the UK financial system from the continued fall in share prices following a series of corporate scandals in the United States.

Black Blade: Maybe they should have an auction or something. I hear gold is lower. ;-)



USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (6/28/02; 14:24:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 79419)
Hard assets... Easy access! (800) 869-5115
http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html

Gold Today!

Because you never know what tomorrow will bring.

In this global marketplace, a single event on the far side of the world can suddenly and adversely affect the performance-credibility value of the commercial positions within your investment portfolio.

Gold has no employees, no overhead, and no financial statement to balance. It cannot go bankrupt. Gold is wealth itself. It is valued worldwide on the basis of its uniquely reliable form and function -- a steadfast financial commodity which is immune to the contagious collapses to which all financial paper is prone.

In the final analysis -- in times of stress -- paper is only paper.

How solid is your portfolio?

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