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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...

The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/28/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Simply Me (9/28/01; 23:59:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 62634)
Thanks for the nice speach Tony Blair!
http://www.debka.com/body_index.html
England. The friend we thought we knew?

Drumming up Anti-Israel Feeling as a Diplomatic Device
24 September

<snip>The attempt by the British foreign secretary Jack Straw to curry favor in Tehran by playing on his hosts’ violent anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli emotions will not endear him to Israelis. His turn of phrase and message show he shares their feelings about the country, Israel, he proposes to visit Tuesday, September 25: one of the factors which helps breed terrorism is the anger which many people in the region feel at events over the years in Palestine, he said.
Palestine? And the venomously implied linkage of the events in that unmentionable place Israel with the atrocities in New York and Washington?
<endsnip>

<snip>Straw's is not the only tainted innuendo coming out of London. This line has been taken often by the BBC in recent months. The campaign to have Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon indicted as a war criminal for the murder of Palestinians by Lebanese Christians in Beirut 19 years ago is driven and funded by International Amnesty head office in London, which blows up the flames each time they die down.
<endsnip>

<snip>
These unlovely smears fit neatly into a well-orchestrated effort in Europe and the Arab world assisted by certain quarters of the United States and Israel - to pin the monstrous wave of international terrorism on the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
This claim provides a handy alibi for their failure to jump aboard the bloc of nations President George W. Bush is striving to assemble for his war against terrorism.
<endsnip>

My view: Sides were chosen long ago, the EU is in bed with the ME. The Euros for Oil deal must not be endangered. And G.W. had to have known this when he declared his War on Terrorism. England is split between pro-US and pro-EU/Arab factions. How long will their troop support last? Next spring? Sooner? Arabs are only waiting for the last straw (Jack Straw?).
simply

Beer Man (9/28/01; 23:33:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 62633)
T.V.
Has any one seen the out door show about gold prospecting cool. How about the coin show, the one the guy says Weasel coin dealer all the time, I just want to put a brick into the T.V.

Beer Man (9/28/01; 23:19:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 62632)
All because of a beautiful woman
My big personal flaw is I'm honest--as you all know--it was an educated guess & luck was with me. I have a strong interest in free market economics. 20 yrs. ago I read a book by nobel prize winner & Wall St. Week hall of fame'r Milton Friedman called Capitalism & Freedom. My guts always told me that's how thing's worked, but after reading that, it was like someone turned the light on in a dark room. Milton you are the man!!!!!!!! I told the site master at Cent. P. M., I don't do e-mail, I use the phone, I like the high quality feed back. -----I can't believe I sold out for a mere $1.00----I just couldn't resist that beautiful woman!!---I can't really explain it, I just find her extremely attractive!!!!!!!!------------Many many thanks to all posters, I enjoy all your work a great deal. -----------Canuck--yes I was-- Mich. Amber Bock.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Cent. P. M. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I WILL NOT FORGET YOUR GENEROSITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sourdough (9/28/01; 23:06:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 62631)
Well, it needed saying ..

September 28, 2001
The discrediting of the American economic model

Battling recession, Washington is now re-adopting many policies that it said for years would be Asia's doom

By
Patrick Smith


I'VE never actually seen an economic model crumble before - not up close. There was the old Soviet command thing, but that was there and then, and that had a slow-motion aspect to it. This is here and now, and there's no cinematic slow-mo in the swift collapse of neoliberal ideology. In its way, it is quite as dramatic as the fall of the World Trade Center - without the tragedy, of course.

I have already suggested in a previous column that the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington earlier this month marked the end of the post-Cold War era. It's now clear that among the thousands of dreadful casualties is one that is not to be mourned: the economic commandments Americans wielded like blunt instruments in their decade of boisterous triumphalism.


Let the market rule all, shrink government to ineffectiveness, deregulate all industries, privatise public functions, turn civic life into a limitless series of transactions, eliminate all social considerations from the realisation of shareholder value - this is some of what we talk about when we talk about neoliberalism. The covenants were borne abroad by way of the process sanctified as globalisation.

It gave us a world of sin and virtue. And it has vanished, evaporated as quickly as cheap after-shave. To put it another way, the era of 'the-era-of-big-government-is-over' is over. (I know a graceful sentence when I see one.)

Asians (and the rest of the world, for that matter) should watch this extraordinary transformation intently. It is of fundamental importance. The merchant bankers and bureaucrats who brought the 'Washington consensus' forcefully across the Pacific will either have to change their story or outperform even themselves in the (hotly competitive) hypocrisy sweepstakes. Hard to say at this early moment which way they will fall.

Watch as against listen. Nobody is going to come out and tell you that Americans under their most conservative administration in two decades are abandoning what they like other people to think of as their principles. But there is plenty to see.

You didn't need Tarot cards to know that Attorney-General John Ashcroft, a frightening fundamentalist in his own right, would take the present occasion to mount an attack on civil liberties. Big government as Big Brother may be back, but let's put that aside, Mrs Lincoln, and look at the economic issues.

The Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) has already relaxed rules to allow listed corporations to buy back more of their stock. (This in a nation with a financial sector deficit equal to roughly 6 per cent of gross national product.) You could cast this as free-market extremism and get away with it, but given the timing, it looks more like official manipulation to me.

Now here come the budget deficits, the fiscal and monetary stimulus policies, and a general effort to 'raise Keynes', in the memorable phrase of a New York Times commentator. 'Critical industries,' Business Week tells us, are to be 'fortified.' The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank - independently of the Bush administration, of course - are to begin extending credits to that unreformed but essential nation called Pakistan.

On the plus side, Business Week also calls for the strengthening of the nation's tattered social safety net. Then again, the corporate welfare cheque known as the defence budget is already predicted to reach - I simply can't get over this - US$350 billion this year.

Last week, while the Bush administration announced its bailout plan for the airline industry, New York Comptroller Alan Hevesi announced that the city's US$80 billion pension fund planned to buy US$800 million in US stocks. Public retirement funds elsewhere around the country are doing the same thing - 'to show confidence', as a Hevesi spokesman put it.

Now I ask you: Is there something about all this that is familiar and odd at the same time? Manipulating the share market with public funds, throwing money at companies without restructuring plans (and possibly taking a government stake in them), letting debt-ridden corporations accumulate stock to keep the market up. All this time I thought I was an American and it turns out I'm Japanese.

The irrefutable reality is that Washington is adopting - re-adopting, actually - many of the same policies that it has asserted for years would be Asia's doom. Suddenly, it finds strength where it once saw weakness.

Don't you know there's a war on, as they used to ask. Well, no, I don't. Washington has yet to define its war on terrorism in anything like politically neutral terms. So far, it seems to mean that everyone is to join in as America goes after its enemies.

The concern in all this is not war - not on the economic side. The dramatic turn in policy is intended to counter the abrupt arrival of a severe recession in a society that carries vastly too much private-sector debt on both the household and corporate sides.

Equally, we can't talk usefully about lasting principles because there were so few of them. Open markets and globalism in the American version have never meant much more than the advance of American corporate interests abroad - with government assistance when needed, of course.

That way of approaching the world may not end. But the ideological cover more or less has to. Globalism as we've known it, like unilateralism, is passing into history. The American model, never what it claimed to be, now stands discredited.

The international implications - again, in Asia and elsewhere - are substantial. The moment has arrived to begin redefining the globalist enterprise in an image other than America's - let's say, just arbitrarily, in a global image. We can finally contemplate a global era in which diversity of policy and practice is not merely allowed but assumed to be a starting point.

Asians are ready for this. At every level - from bureaucrats, politicians, and corporate executives on down - many have for some time sought to articulate an alternative to the one-size-fits-all prescriptions emanating from Washington and Wall Street. Now's the time to start thinking of what another way forward might look like. - Bloomberg

The writer is a former Bloomberg correspondent in Asia and the author of 'Japan: A Reinterpretation'. The opinions expressed are his own.



Solomon Weaver (9/28/01; 22:38:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 62630)
DJ Now Runs Gold, Silver Coin Prices
http://news.ino.com/intraday/?storyid=DJN617428007
Dow Jones Newswires
FREE Realtime Trial | Subscribers
DJ SUBSCRIBERS: DJ Now Runs Gold, Silver Coin Prices


This week Dow Jones Newswires began running U.S. gold and silver coin prices, provided to us by the Associated Press.

The item runs at about 11 a.m. EDT (1500 GMT) each day and can be found on dowjonesnews.com with code N/PCS or on Telerate page 61010.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires 27-09-01
. . . .

POS: Wow...Dow Jones seems to think that showing coin prices is now back in vogue....anything to up the number of hits on their site..it seems.



The Stranger (9/28/01; 22:35:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 62629)
Bush, Francis, Novak, Podhoretz. They're All Silly, If You Ask Me
http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FAthens%2FOlympus%2F7864%2Fintolerance.htm
AEL: Re: your 9/28/01; 14:29:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 62597
(On Novak, Podhoretz, Israel, and Terrorism).

I'm not sure what this has to do with gold, but the roots of Muslim hatred for the West are not political, they are psychological.

Most of the world's Muslims live miserable lives. They have miserable educations. They have miserable governments. They have miserable homes, miserable hygiene and miserable teeth. Most have no savings, no automobile, no telephone. Many live without the luxury of a kitchen or a bathroom. Many are illiterate.

The one thing all Muslims do have, however, is the Koran, and for many, promises made by the Koran represent the only hope they will ever have of escaping the misery which seems to be their life's destiny.

Left in a world all their own, Muslims might not have to hate anybody. But instead, they live in a world in which all the good things seem to accrue to the practitioners of what the Koran tells them are false religions. And, if that isn't provocation enough, consider that the Koran repeatedly exhorts all Muslims to destroy those who do not profess devotion to Islam. (for specific examples of this, see http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FAthens%2FOlympus%2F7864%2Fintolerance.htm).

For obvious reasons, you will never hear leaders in the West speak of these matters. Italian Premier Berlusconi came close this week, as you may have heard, but I understand that already today he has apologized. The sublect is just too contoversial for open discussion.

But just as it is with you and me, I'm sure that most Muslims get through every day in this world as best they can. Only, for many, life is a much more difficult struggle. Until some significant improvement is made in their collective standard of living, I'm afraid the 1000-year-old resentment many of them feel toward the West will only continue to fester.




Solomon Weaver (9/28/01; 22:29:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62628)
DJ China Silver Exports Surge As Govt Ups Quotas, Cuts Taxes
http://news.ino.com/intraday/?storyid=DJN617499700


SHANGHAI (Dow Jones)--China's silver exports are surging despite falling world prices, as the government loosens its grip on silver trading and offers a generous tax break on exports, according to a government research report.

From January to July of this year, China exported 470.8 tons of silver, seven times more than in the same period last year, the Gold Economic Development Research Center said in a report on its Web site.

The increase prompted the government to issue in August extra export quotas for another 500 tons of silver for the rest of the year, bringing total 2001 quotas to about 900 tons, the report said.

The research center reports to China's State Economic Trade Commission.

Beijing is also offering export tax rebates of 13%, which means silver producers can make more money - about 0.1 yuan a gram ($1=CNY8.28) - selling silver abroad than domestically, the report said.

. . . .

POS: Interesting...China has a policy that gives about 40 cents per ounce advantage to "export" silver.....funny how 1000 tons sounds like a huge amount...although it is only 30 million ounces....about 20% of the known yearly deficit.

N.B. I also noticed the suggestion published yesterday to have gold and silver coins issued to commemorate the WTC. Interestingly, the idea that there would be enough silver for "unlimited" coin issue on the silver shows their ignorance of the dire silver supply situation.

Horatio (9/28/01; 22:27:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 62627)
Nostradamus
Nostradamus & Gold
REFERENCES TO GOLD & SILVER -------- THE PRECIOUS METALS





Century I

35
The young lion will overcome the older one,
in a field of combat in single fight:
He will pierce his eyes in their golden cage;
two wounds in one, then he dies a cruel death.

53
Alas, how we will see a great nation sorely troubled
and the holy law in utter ruin.
Christianity (governed) throughout by other laws,
when a new source of gold and silver is discovered.





Century II

87
After there will come from the outermost countries
A German Prince, upon the golden throne:
The servitude and waters met,
The lady serves, her time no longer adored.

92
Fire color of gold from the sky seen on earth:
Heir struck from on high, marvelous deed done:
Great human murder: the nephew of the great one taken,
Deaths spectacular the proud one escaped.





Century III

2
The divine word will give to the sustenance,
Including heaven, earth, gold hidden in the mystic milk:
Body, soul, spirit having all power,
As much under its feet as the Heavenly see.

3
Mars and Mercury, and the silver joined together,
Towards the south extreme drought:
In the depths of Asia one will say the earth trembles,
Corinth, Ephesus then in perplexity.

13
Through lightning in the arch gold and silver melted,
Of two captives one will eat the other:
The greatest one of the city stretched out,
When submerged the fleet will swim.

26
They will prepare idols of Kings and Princes,
Soothsayers and empty prophets elevated:
Horn, victim of gold, and azure, dazzling,
The soothsayers will be interpreted.

67
A new sect of Philosophers
Despising death, gold, honors and riches
Will not be bordering upon the German mountains:
To follow them they will have power and crowds.

72
The good old man buried quite alive,
Near the great river through false suspicion:
The new old man ennobled by riches,
Captured on the road all his gold for ransom.





Century IV

29
The Sun hidden eclipsed by Mercury
Will be placed only second in the sky:
Of Vulcan Hermes will be made into food,
The Sun will be seen pure, glowing red and golden.

30
Eleven more times the Moon the Sun will not want,
All raised and lowered by degree:
And put so low that one will stitch little gold:
Such that after famine plague, the secret uncovered.

34
The great one of the foreign land led captive,
Chained in gold offered to King Chyren:
He who in Ausonia, Milan will lose the war,
And all his army put to fire and sword.

42
Geneva and Langres through those of Chartres and Dôle
And through Grenoble captive at Montélimar
Seyssel, Lausanne, through fraudulent deceit,
They will betray them for sixty marks of gold.





Century V

19
The great Royal one of gold, augmented by brass,
The agreement broken, war opened by a young man:
People afflicted because of a lamented chief,
The land will be covered with barbarian blood.

41
Born in the shadows and during a dark day,
He will be sovereign in realm and goodness:
He will cause his blood to rise again in the ancient urn,
Renewing the age of gold for that of brass.

66
Under the ancient vestal edifices,
Not far from the ruined aqueduct:
The glittering metals are of the Sun and Moon,
The lamp of Trajan engraved with gold burning.

69
No longer will the great one be in his false sleep,
Uneasiness will come to replace tranquillity:
A phalanx of gold, azure and vermilion arrayed
To subjugate Africa and gnaw it to the bone.





Century VI

8
Those who were in the realm for knowledge
Will become impoverished at the change of King:
Some exiled without support, having no gold,
The lettered and letters will not be at a high premium.

9
In the sacred temples scandals will be perpetrated,
They will be reckoned as honors and commendations:
Of one of whom they engrave medals of silver and of gold,
The end will be in very strange torments.

14
Far from his land a King will lose the battle,
At once escaped, pursued, then captured,
Ignorant one taken under the golden mail,
Under false garb, and the enemy surprised.

49
The great Pontiff of the party of Mars
Will subjugate the confines of the Danube:
The cross to pursue, through sword hook or crook,
Captives, gold, jewels more than one hundred thousand rubies.





Century VII

3
After the naval victory of France,
the people of Barcelona the Saillinons and those of Marseilles;
the robber of gold, the anvil enclosed in the ball,
the people of Ptolon will be party to the fraud.

25
Through long war all the army exhausted,
so that they do not find money for the soldiers;
instead of gold or silver, they will come to coin leather,
Gallic brass, and the crescent sign of the Moon.

32
From the bank of Montereale will be born one
who bores and calculates becoming a tyrant.
To raise a force in the marches of Milan,
to drain Faenza and Florence of gold and men





Century VIII

14
The great credit of gold and abundance of silver
will cause honor to be blinded by lust;
the offense of the adulterer will become known,
which will occur to his great dishonor.

28
The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.

29
At the fourth pillar which they dedicate to Saturn
split by earthquake and by flood;
under Saturn's building an urn is found
gold carried off by Caepio and then restored.





Century IX

12
So much silver of Diana and Mercury,
The images will be found in the lake:
The sculptor looking for new clay,
He and his followers will be steeped in gold.

17
The third one first does worse than Nero,
How much human blood to flow, valiant, be gone:
He will cause the furnace to be rebuilt,
Golden Age dead, new King great scandal.

44
Leave, leave Geneva every last one of you,
Saturn will be converted from gold to iron,
Raypoz will exterminate all who oppose him,
Before the coming the sky will show signs.





Century X

46
In life, fate and death a sordid, unworthy man of gold,
He will not be a new Elector of Saxony:
From Brunswick he will send for a sign of love,
The false seducer delivering it to the people.

ROSEBUD99 (9/28/01; 22:17:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 62626)
Chris Powell.. RE SDR's
i was reading the fed's 2nd quarter 2001 z1 reports and noticed the listing of SDR's. I see they are still at 2.2 billion, unchanged since 4th Q 2000. I figued you knew, but thought i would mention it anyway. I guess the gov gave up on that paper game. ;)

Solomon Weaver (9/28/01; 22:12:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 62625)
savings is called hoarding if one saves in gold.



Question mark falls on oil and gold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
European officials say there were signs of suspicious dealings in commodities
WHILE governments around the world scour their files for evidence of funding used for a network of Islamic militants, the murkiness of global gold trading may leave investigators guessing in the dark.

Gold is the perfect "safe haven" commodity to which people turn in times of crisis.

But could the notorious secrecy that surrounds trade in the metal have been exploited to raise the huge amounts of cash needed to finance such a network?

There has been no obvious evidence of shady dealings yet.

Analysts said it was unlikely that the world gold market had been so successfully used in this way over a period of years.

Even so European officials have named gold and oil as commodities in which there were signs of suspicious dealings around the time of the attacks on New York and Washington. This has fuelled talk that people with prior knowledge of the attacks may have speculated on the subsequent market turmoil.

"They (militants) could have amassed the gold over a number of years. Who knows when it started? There are lots of hoarders of gold it's not outside the bounds of reason," said one analyst.

"It's all do-able'. But how and over what period of time and in what amounts, nobody knows."

Gold's almost universal acceptance as a means of payment and easy transportation as anonymous bars of bullion have made it an attractive trading instrument if scrutiny is to be avoided.

This has attracted unscrupulous parties who trade in gold, weapons, drugs and diamonds often stolen or smuggled as a nontraceable way of raising funds to finance rebel and guerrilla groups.

In the early 1990s, for example, Chechnya was named as a likely transfer point for smuggling gold stolen from Russian mines. Experts say diamonds and large amounts of oil were also used to raise funds, channelled through ramshackle Russian banks, to buy more arms and set up military bases.

Global trade in gold, particularly movements of metal rather than the complex futures and options paper markets, is notoriously opaque.

Numbers are hard to confirm, adding to the secrecy behind which a potential criminal can hide.

Hoarding by individuals is commonplace in many countries, particularly in Asia; volumes of gold passing through the international jewellery trade are difficult to establish and most banks are reluctant to publish their holdings.

"In the short term the market would have seen it going through," said a Swiss bullion trader. "Over the long term, there is no possibility to confirm or deny because everything is possible if you do it in small quantities."

Geography may well have been on the side of the chief suspect for the September 11 attacks, Saudiborn Osama bin Laden, whose main field of operations is believed to be the gold-hungry Middle East.

The emirate of Dubai has long been a dominant player in the world gold market. Although still known as the City of Gold and a major export gateway, Dubai has seen its bullion trade slashed in recent years due to market deregulation in India, the world's top consumer.

"It would be easy if he (Bin Laden) were buying via front companies as he is quite close to India and Dubai," said another analyst. "But for us to monitor that and assess if he was using the market would be pretty much impossible."

"They do have a lot of gold in TT bars going through every day," he said, referring to Dubai's benchmark 10-tola bars equivalent to 3,75 ounces of 24-carat gold. "The majority of Indians don't have a bank account, so effectively all their investments are in TT bars and these are generally hoarded."

Another difficulty in tracking Bin Laden's financing is the Middle East's traditional "hawala" method of transferring funds with a handshake and a piece of paper. The individual's word is his bond and the penalty for default is death.

Switzerland home to a third of the world's offshore wealth due to its banking system and also some of the globe's biggest bullion dealers would be an obvious channel for any shadowy gold-related financing, analysts said.

This week Swiss authorities said their famous banking laws would be no barrier in the quest to track the money trail and its banks are now scrutinising client lists to match blacklisted names the US has given.

"They (militants) could just as easily hold this gold on account in Switzerland. It doesn't need to be smuggled. You wouldn't need to keep the gold in a hole in the ground in the Afghan hills to fund this," an analyst said. Reuters.
Sep 28 2001 12:00:00:000AM Jeremy Smith Business Day 1st Edition



BR549 (9/28/01; 21:51:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62624)
Old Yeller (msg#: 62603) -----

Yellow---"I checked the quote at MRCI at the close,they had $293.90 at 13:00 ETThanks very much for your support. We the people can force constructive change on our leaders,by demanding they remove blood from the equation of policy implementation.We want freedom and safety for our families and our country,let's defy them to show how they can provide this under the status quo. I'm tired of "blowback",it isn't working and in their hearts,they know it too."

BR-WOW! I hope that everyone here knows how brilliant that you and your guess about the POG was. Some of us took is seriously like you did and posted a fraction off the current price and others didn't. In fact your post was the only sour grapes post that showed how brilliant anyone other the winner was. How low class. Can you and your pink eyes see anything from your position of your shoulders so imbedded where the sun does not shine.

Yellow—"I checked the quote at MRCI at the close,they had $293.90 at 13:00 ET,figured I had it in the bag,but no little s for settle. Went back and some little gremlin had inched her up a lousy dime."

Come on! What tripe! Why do you take away from the winner Beer Man's victory?

This guess at the price of gold was fun for most of us. What a sore loser! What a great stimulant for gold bugs! The sun shines bright for most of us Goldbugs outside of your inflated egos. More contests in the future!

Thanks for turning a fun thing into something about you. Again, congrat's Beer Man and this Bud (or whatever your are drinking) is for you.


Mr Gresham (9/28/01; 20:33:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 62623)
This is the way the Bubble ends...
http://www.afgi.org/pdfs/moodys59050.pdf
"We believe that Moody's portfolio risk model is a powerful new tool that will greatly enhance our analysis of the financial guarantors..."

I suppose if you were spending the --oops... if you were the fly on the wall of Laura's private conversations this weekend you would hear a bit less erudite language about the precision of financial modeling of late.

Wouldn't you know it; just when they get the formulas down in programming systems (and can bill for their fees in doing so), the world goes ka-blooey around them. Real life intervenes... (oops gotta go, real life here intercepts posting precision...)

nummus aureus (9/28/01; 20:22:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 62622)
%%%%%Happy Birthday%%%%%
A belated Happy Birthday to the Knights and Ladies of this Round Table, and our amiable host, Michael.

I believe every year I'm one of the last to respond.

Michael, I seem to have loaned out my copy of your book, that you so graciously autographed, and never got it back. Is it still possible to purchase another? I seem to recall it was printed in Nebraska.

Mr Gresham (9/28/01; 20:15:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62621)
Derivatives: Sorry again....
but I think the final message of many financial institutions to those who entrusted their savings will be: "We did the math. We did our best. Your money's gone. Just gone. Sorry."

Mr Gresham (9/28/01; 20:05:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 62620)
I'm sorry...
http://216.46.231.211/credit.htm
but are you reading these examples of financial derivatives that Noland gives in the link I gave? THIS is our financial system? Sheeeee-eee-eee.... ah um gee-whillikers, Andy! I don't know at this point who's crazier -- the guys who set these up or the terrorists who popped the balloon covering up their idiocies.

They are just really out there. Way-y-y-y-y out there. "A Candian"'s shovel is going to turn out more trustworthy than any 800# number when this stuff hits the fan!


Mr Gresham (9/28/01; 19:54:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 62619)
Noland
http://216.46.231.211/credit.htm
Just getting started on Doug's...

Congrats, B-Man. I find I do my best thinking on a few less brain-cells...

A Canadian: Welcome, I read you loud & clear. "We're all Canadians, now, eh?"

Black Blade (9/28/01; 19:37:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 62618)
Oil Rises; Saudi Pledges to Defend Price
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010928/bs/markets_oil_dc_54.html

Snippit:

LONDON (Reuters) - World oil prices moved tentatively higher on Friday, bolstered by news that Saudi Arabia sees OPEC moving quickly to defend oil prices. Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said on Friday he believed OPEC would cut oil production again before its next meeting in mid-November, possibly by more than 500,000 barrels a day, if crude prices did not stage a recovery before then.

Naimi said that OPEC heavyweight Saudi Arabia and most others in the cartel were not comfortable with $21-$22 a barrel for the OPEC basket, a level Kuwait has said it can bear for some time. Naimi said he had no specific timeframe or volume in mind for any new cut. But he said OPEC would not have to stick to the parameters of the group's price band mechanism either on timing or price. The device stipulates a reduction of 500,000 barrels a day 10 working days after the OPEC basket has stayed under $22.

Black Blade: I don't think that Saudi will give away oil to save the west while struggling to keep the social spending strong. The Royal family's days are numbered if the payoffs to other tribal chieftains and religious clerics are discontinued. Oil is not about to drop to 1998 levels again. Therefore this Recession will be a long-term problem for the Global Economy. The current king is in poor health and his heir (his brother) is not a fan of the US. Could get "Interesting"


A Canadian (9/28/01; 19:30:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 62617)
CLICKED TOO SOON
There isn't one of us whose not behind you during these times....our hearts go out. CONGRATS BEERMAN!!! I'll send ya a hockey puck.

A Canadian (9/28/01; 19:22:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 62616)
GREETINGS + 1st POST
Am new online....found you guys...am floored by quality of discussion. I started buying and burying at $258 (shellshocked by ex, lawyers, partners) No one gets it this time but me!! Without a doubt the most overlooked and unbelievably undervalued commodity. The chest sparkles....hard to lift. They said I was nuts!(as they continued to build their paper fortunes) Paper is made by men...gold is made by gods. Their fortunes have been blown away by the winds of greed...I have my trusted shovel!!!

Black Blade (9/28/01; 19:15:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62615)
Forbes Body Count
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/30/layoffs.html

The "Bones" are piling up fast. Now well over 3/4 a million so far and rising. Total unemployed is now over 3.8 million. It will get much worse. Today the stock market indices powered a bit higher. Why anyone would pay more for declining earnings and dismal earnings prospects is beyond me. Next months data releases should be "Interesting."

BTW, congrats Beer-Man! I will raise my bottle of "Moose Drool" to ya in about an hour. Cheers!

- Black Blade

Leigh (9/28/01; 18:55:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 62614)
Robert Chapman's Latest
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com
What is going to happen in June? Anyone know? I can't figure out what Mr. Chapman means here:

"The Swiss National Bank will sell another 283 tons of gold through Sept. 2002. They still have 980 tons left to sell from an earmarked 1,300 tons. It fits within the Washington Agreement. Now you can see why Alan Greenspan was at the BIS in Basel last week. This is why Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin are having secret meetings with Congress. All of Washington knows what is going on and every politician knows if the gold manipulation scam is exposed the whole financial system is coming down. That is why they won't pursue an investigation. It doesn't make any difference, because by June the whole conspiracy will come unraveled. Long-time gold bear, Andy Smith of Mitsui Global Precious Metals, says, 'He is looking for a very large, probably delayed but possible sustained rise in gold prices.'"

The CoinGuy (9/28/01; 18:51:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 62613)
@@THE BEERMAN@@
Looks like the rounds are on you tonight!! Great going!

The Coinguy

goldroadlx7 (9/28/01; 18:47:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 62612)
$$$$beerman$$$$
my hat is off to you!congradulations are in order, please keep us informed going forward,all the best to you. goldroadlx7

Canuck (9/28/01; 18:19:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 62611)
@ BeerMan
Congratulations Beer Man, hope you're having a beer man!

site steward (9/28/01; 18:15:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 62610)
If previous link doesn't work for you...
http://www.investors.com/editorial/snap.asp?v=9/28
...here's a slightly more cumbersome alternate.

R.

site steward (9/28/01; 18:13:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 62609)
A respectable gold market overview. Recommended reading.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/SnapP.asp
Too much good stuff to provide excerpts without violating copyrights. Read it for yourself.

Oh, and the "risks" the author was obliged to state in his final remarks... just think about the parallel condition as it exists for national currencies. In spades!!!

I guess you'll just have to read the article to know what I'm talking about....

R.

slingshot (9/28/01; 17:55:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 62608)
Piddily Report
If your in the Army, Nary Surplus business your probably making a bundle. Gas masks and other Bio-chem protection
equipment and clothing are selling as fast as gold bullion at the coin dealers.

Those Meals Ready to Eat ( MRE's ) are on the move again or should I say in demand.

Editors Note: All the gas masks and chem suits are no good if you can not use them properly.
MRE's I have eaten 1995 meals stored at 80*F and had no problem. The last meal two weeks ago. For fresher meals check the pack date. Beef stew was the meal.
Its Y2K all over again with a twist.

Piddily Report
All the News so Piddily other don't print it.
Slingshot


goldquest (9/28/01; 17:41:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 62607)
Congrats Beer Man! Well Done!
It appears that because of your handle, we have one thing in common!

Simply Me (9/28/01; 17:07:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62606)
Congratulations, Beer Man!
A perfect bullseye! Your two coins are well deserved.
simply

USAGOLD (9/28/01; 16:59:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 62605)
A CALL TO CONTEST! A CALL TO CONTEST! A CALL TO CONTEST!
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/archives/2220009/default.html
Note: Here's the original Call To Contest for those who are wondering what all these posts are about with ****stars**** around them. Ignore the stuff about the price guessing contest, since that's now a done deal. I did want to mention (forgot to in previous post), how nice it is to see all these new Knights and Ladies gathered around this table feeling very much at home. That's the way we like it. If you want a real hoot and a good time, go back to the September 22, 2000 archive and read the posting contest directed to this "Mighty Oaken Table of Yore." (Linked above.) That was a great Contest. Those of you who would like to address the Table belatedly for its birthday, you are certainly welcome to do so. Just surround your post with %%%%% per cent signs %%%%% so that those interested in comments addressed to the Table will know where to find them. . . . To all the new posters, welcome and we look forward to your long and mutually beneficial stay. Now that you've broken the ice, don't be a Stranger (unless of course that's your posting handle). . . . . .Have a good weekend all. MK

- - - - - - -

Knights and Ladies:

A POSTING CONTEST CALLING ON YOUR MOST REFINED SKILLS
(And I'll bet you think I've forgotten how much fun these
contests can be. . . .)

We have endured much over the past several weeks, and we have not
had a contest in a very long time -- two good reasons for a
little diversion, or maybe that's the wrong word. For what this
contest demands of its participants is some "soul" searching. . .
some "political economy" searching. . . some "belief" searching.
As such, many will not think it relaxation, but a call on our
greatest skills in erudition and posting. This, it no doubt will
be. There are those who might think this is not the time for a
contest, but I would say there could not be a better time. As we
reach into the depth of our own souls perhaps we can help our
fellow goldmeisters, our friends and associates.

The statement brought to this Table Round is as simple as it is
direct, and to start each post it must be answered "True" or
"False". All else follows.

The statement is this:

The world today is a different place today than it was 9/10/01.

TRUE or FALSE.

Each entry must bring the discussion around to gold (naturally)
and must be at least 50 words in length, though you can post as
much as you wish. One link in the customary place to illustrate
is both encouraged and allowed.

Each entry must be marked in the subject box as:

****The World Is a Different Place Today Than It was 9/10/01 ****
(Surrounded by stars)

Ignore gold and disqualify your entry.

The winner will receive a pre-1933 gold British sovereign from
the Royal USAGOLD TREASURY. The runners-up will receive each a
one-tenth ounce gold U.S. Eagle -- two will be awarded.

Each first-time poster --either in the price guessing contest or
the posting contest -- will receive a U.S. Silver Eagle. If you
are a first time poster, you must e-mail the
sitemaster@usagold.com notice that you are such. Please do not
try to slip one by us, each claim will be checked. We very much
encourage our lurkers to take this as an opportunity to
participate in the discussion. Silver has motivated many of our
best posters to post the first time. May it motivate you.

(Marie, to the vaults! Make ready the coin! Count up our stacks!
The Contest is About to Begin. . . . .)

PRICE GUESSING CONTEST:

In addition to the posting contest, there will be an additional
contest calling on participants price-guessing skills -- and what
better time than now than to call on those skills? Whoever is
closest to the settlement price of the December contract on the
Comex for the Friday close, September 28, 2001 wins a pre-1933
British sovereign. There will be no runners-up. He or she who
first claims a price owns it and no other can take it. Choose
carefully. Each price pick must be accompanied by 25 words why
this price is the one you choose. All entries must be on the
board no later than Thursday September 26, 2001 10AM mountain
time. No 25 word commentary, no prize. No late entries will be
accepted.

All price entries must be surrounded by #### signs, as follows:

#### $875 #####

The posting contest will go from this moment until Sunday,
September 30, 2001 midnight mountain time.

Only one entry per category per contestant.

I wish you all well, my friends, and good luck.

May the best poster win.

USAGOLD (9/28/01; 16:39:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 62604)
Victoria sovereigns. . .And a Belated Happy Birthday to this Mighty Oaken Table of Yore. . . .
Over one half the Victoria's are now sold.

We'll leave the on-line store open over the weekend and orders will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis. When you place your order, a confirm automatically goes to Marie's e-mail with the time annotated, so we'll know where the cut-off is.

Thanks to all those who have decided to do business with USAGOLD. . .many of you first-time buyers. It is your business that makes this web-site possible.

Congrats to BeerMan -- our first big winner. Does this mean he has to buy beers for the house? Now that might be a tall order. Page hits have really jumped. We now average 31,623 per day as of yesterday and, for whatever reason, 58,050 page hits on September 17. *********By the way, this Forum had a birthday recently -- on September 22nd! We are now three years old and still kicking. . . .Congratulations, O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore. . . . .Events pushed all kinds of celebration to the back burner including our annual birthday party aroun this Table. . . .********

The best post on that important day? The honors go to our old friend FOA, who had this to say (there is also an interesting gold price prediction from Another!! Read on.)

Friend of Another (9/22/98; 18:01:45 Msg ID:96)
Aragorn III (9/22/98; 16:13:17 Msg ID:94)
Aragorn, I doubt that the common man will feel there is gold in the Euro. He will know it but not fully understand it. The currency confidence factor comes from a strong positive exchange rate, much like that enjoyed by the dollar today. The average European will buy from the USA in the same way that Americans buy bargain goods from other countries. Using an overvalued dollar makes one feel as their is no inflation, even though there has been massive dollar currency inflation over the last twenty years (the real cause of price increases when the exchange rate is allowed to balance a negative trade deficit). As for the Euro being a clean, unmanipulated money system? Of course not! There
will be all kinds of problems, but they don't carry the debt that the dollar does after all these years of reserve currency status. The Euro will be the lesser of the two evils. Perhaps by a factor of five. That is also why many major investors will hold gold as a proxy for Euros. Not to mention that it will increase in value a great deal. What exchange rate for gold in Euros? I think it will be more of a free market type system, but Another thinks $6,000 in todays dollar buying power. We shall see. Thanks for the consideration! I wanted to reply to your first posts but lost them? FOA

- - - - - -

I read that just a few moments ago and was struck with FOA's remarkable consistency over a three year period. Hope you are well, my friend. We look forward to your return. Though your message is often misunderstood and/or misinterpreted, it is always read by a large number of people. That summation above stands up remarkably well over a three year period, doesn't it? And you know something, you couldn't slip a new paper euro between your opinion then and philosophy you posted not more than a month ago.

- - - - - - -

Don't forget the posting contest goes to Sunday. So far, we've been very impressed with the entries with a fairly even displacement between the TRUE and FALSE. Some deep thinking going on here. . . Judging this contest will be very difficult.

As I said on that first day, and repeat now with the same enthusiasm:

"Post at will!"

Old Yeller (9/28/01; 15:57:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 62603)
Allan C,Galearis,Hipplebeck and nickel62

Thanks very much for your support.

We the people can force constructive change on our leaders,by demanding they remove blood from the equation of policy implementation.We want freedom and safety for our families and our country,let's defy them to show how they can provide this under the status quo.

I'm tired of "blowback",it isn't working and in their hearts,they know it too.



Mr Gresham (9/28/01; 14:57:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 62602)
Netking, BR549: INVADE AFGHANISTAN...
...with food. (How much of a perimeter would you have to set up, for the starving people to get in to receive? Doesn't seem like the Tali-tubbies have much of an army, do they?)

My Pakistani buddy says he watched the C,I,A set up the Taliban in Western Pakistan in the '80s. Maybe they know how to buy them out? (Remember -- was it McCarthy's or Fulbright's cracks? -- about how for the cost of the Vietnam war you could have bought every Viet Cong a rice farm and given him $10,000 to get started?)

Your tax dollars at work. But do YOU get to pick the menu?

Old Yeller (9/28/01; 14:56:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 62601)
To paraphrase Maxwell Smart

"Missed it by that much"

Congratulations Beer Man,great call.

I checked the quote at MRCI at the close,they had $293.90 at 13:00 ET,figured I had it in the bag,but no little s for settle.Went back and some little gremlin had inched her up a lousy dime.

As Kilgour Trout would say;"So it goes".

No matter'sooner or later there will be bigger fish to fry.

Thanks USAGOLD,great contest,it's always refreshing to read new points of view,that's reward enough.

AllanC (9/28/01; 14:54:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 62600)
Old Yeller Your post #62549 to BS549 both end in "549"!!
Great post . Words cannot do it justice.

Thank you.


R Powell (9/28/01; 14:41:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 62599)
Beer Man
Hey guy! You won two coins with one posting and one in each of two most popular colors. Not bad, not bad at all!
Congrats
Rich

R Powell (9/28/01; 14:36:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 62598)
Jimmy Rogers
Is scheduled to be interviewed from Equador tonight on the peoples stock market television channel. He's been on an extended around-the-world "business" trip. This is his second time around to see what's happening.
CNBC says he'll be asked his opinions of the world economy. I'm not sure (as I was only half listening as usual) but I believe 7:30 EST is the time.
Happy Friday!
Rich

AEL (9/28/01; 14:29:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 62597)
On Novak, Podhoretz, Israel, and Terrorism

September 24, 2001

On Novak, Podhoretz, Israel, And Terrorism

By Sam Francis

A tip of the hat to President George W. Bush, whose address to the
nation last week was strong, clear and uncharacteristically
presidential. But if the president's delivery was first-rate, at
least some of the content was simply silly.

Silliness No. 1 was Mr., Bush's explanation as to "Why do they
hate us?" It's a good question to which some people have been
offering answers for the last couple of weeks. But some of the
answers offered are neither true nor even honest.

Mr. Bush's answer is that "they" hate us because we are a
democracy, that "they hate our freedoms, our freedom of religion,
our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and
disagree with each other." Also, they want to overthrow many
existing Muslim governments in the Middle East (though few are
democratic), "drive Israel out of the Middle East" and "many
Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa,"
although there aren't an awful lot of Christians or Jews in either
place.

Not once did the president suggest that Osama bin Laden and his
supporters hate us because of our foreign policy in the Middle
East-- our war with Iraq ten years ago and our support for Israel
in the face of overwhelming Arabic and Muslim opposition.

And indeed, he was politically prudent not to say so. Anyone who
does make that suggestion is immediately deluged with vituperation
and accusations of anti-Semitism. Last week, for example, in
response to a column by columnist Robert Novak in the New York
Post suggesting that U.S.-Israeli policy in the Middle East may
have contributed to the terrorist onslaught, neo-conservative guru
and militant Zionist Norman Podhoretz delivered a savage and
indeed nutty attack on the conservative columnist.

Mr. Novak, Mr. Podhoretz ranted, has an "animus against Israel";
his attitude toward Israel is "vitriolic"; he's "ignorant" of what
has shaped the terrorists. His column is "shamefully perverse"; he
"evidently" favors the "disappearance of Israel" and "perhaps"
would welcome "repeated--and worse--attacks than the one we
suffered on Sept. 11." It's clear that Mr. Podhoretz is not only a
Zionist crackpot but that he regards any criticism of Israel at
all as anti- Semitic as well as supportive of the kind of
terrorist attacks the country has already suffered.

Last week, Mr. Podhoretz ran a lengthy article in the Wall Street
Journal in which he unbosomed similar sentiments, this time
asserting that "wiping Israel off the map is still one of the
major hopes of Arabs everywhere"--in other words, that the
majority of Arabs support genocide. Yet at the same time he also
claimed that "if Israel had never come into existence or if it
were magically to disappear, the U.S. would still stand as an
embodiment of everything that most of these Arabs consider
evil"--that is, the terrorists would attack us, as the president
also claims, just because they hate America and our way of life.
Israel has nothing to do with, despite the Arabs' genocidal hatred
of it.

Unfortunately, (or rather fortunately) there's evidence that such
claims are simply untrue. In the January. 11, 1999 issue of Time
magazine, there was an interview with, of all people, Osama bin
Laden himself, and the man who is now Global Public Enemy No. 1
made it pretty clear why he has a burr under his turban.

Asked what he thought about the U.S. bombing of Iraq in December,
1998, bin Laden replied, "There is no doubt that the treacherous
attack has confirmed that Britain and America are acting on behalf
of Israel and the Jews, paving the way for the Jews to divide the
Muslim world once again, enslave it and loot the rest of its
wealth." He's mainly upset because he thinks U.S. forces have
defiled Muslim holy sites in his native Saudi Arabia by military
occupation, and he wants retribution for what he thinks is
American injustice to Islam. "Muslims are angry. The Americans
should expect reactions from the Muslim world that are
proportionate to the injustice they inflict."

Osama bin Laden said not one word about "hating democracy" or the
freedoms Mr. Bush listed. Certainly he wants to drive "Israel out
of the Middle East" and he may want to drive "Christians and Jews"
out as well, but mainly he wants to drive out the American
military power that is in alliance with Israel.

There's no doubt that bin Laden and his cronies are now enemies of
the United States to the death, and there's no doubt that we need
to wage war on them simply to protect ourselves. But there ought
to be no doubt either why they became our enemies, or that some
people don't want us to know what the real reasons for their
hatred are.

BR549 (9/28/01; 14:26:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 62596)
Beer Man (9/26/01; 16:20)
Congratulations! On the money at $294.00. No more lurking for you. I will be paying attention to your posts from now on.

Regards,

BR549

site steward (9/28/01; 14:24:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 62595)
Japan intervened AGAIN in the foreign exchange market today
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010927/t116869_2.html
TOKYO, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Japan's desperate attempts to curb the yen's rise will probably continue next week, but most analysts believe it will have only limited success, with the dollar likely to remain under a cloud for some months yet....... [Since the September 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S.] the Bank of Japan has intervened repeatedly in the foreign exchange market to buy dollars or euro and sell yen, the latest such action coming on Friday morning.------

Also from the article, Taisuke Tanaka, currency strategist at Credit Suisse First Boston said, "If the dollar continues to slide, the Japanese economy, which was barely afloat, could sink right under the water. For this reason, (Japan) will continue intervening."

For a particularly good overview of this matter, and the dire implications for all parties concerned, I posted an article yesterday (different from the one being briefly quoted here) that I hope you all took time to read. If not, please use this second chance to see the URL hyperlink given above.

More importantly, you still have time to call Centennial today to stake your position for a restful weekend -- no matter what may befall in the news of the world. Are you willing to be without gold while terrorist and military action is afoot?

R.

R Powell (9/28/01; 14:17:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 62594)
Precious prices and SM/US$
For years the US dollar gained strength and POG went down. Dollar down and POG gained. It was the rule much more than the exception that this inverse relationship also held true for the stock markets with the Dow up, POG down and vice-versa. This doesn't seem to be the case lately. What has changed?? Have gold and silver gained enough strength to ingore the relationship or does the bear market change the picture?? Any explanations or thoughts.
Today was a wonderful day for silverbugs. Now, if the Comex will start accepting limit orders again perhaps I can lock in some profits.
Happy weekend!
Rich

site steward (9/28/01; 14:07:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 62593)
"Hey Michael, bring up the gold! The appointed hour is at hand!"
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010928/n28541457_1.html
From where I sit, let me try to put two and two together without necessarily drawing any binding conclusions...

To set the stage, here is a reminder of MK's words from September 24th:

-------"In addition to the posting contest, there will be an additional contest calling on participants price-guessing skills..... Whoever is closest to the settlement price of the December contract on the Comex for the Friday close, September 28, 2001 wins a pre-1933 British sovereign."--------

(A rather generous chap, wouldn't you agree?)

Next, here is an excerpt from a Reuters article released moments ago...

---------NEW YORK, Sept 28 (Reuters) - COMEX gold rose Friday, helped off early lows by bank buying as the precious metal retained its safe-haven allure going into the weekend, dealers said.

Shaking off a jump in the dollar after data showed some U.S. economic resilience in the second quarter, COMEX December gold rose 80 cents to $294 an ounce, trading from $291.15 to a high of $295.50.

...Dealers said there has been a sea change in physical demand since the horrific events two weeks ago.

"For many countries gold is starting to become the currency of choice," said Ian MacDonald, bullion chief dealer at Commerzbank. "We're largely talking about the Middle East, where we've seen a very substantial pickup in physical buying."

"We had a bear market for 21 years and it looks like nobody is talking about a bear market any more," he said. "We can see just from physical shipments going out from our refinery that things have changed."-----------

Well, that's ALL very nice to know, isn't it? But must pertinent to one poster in particular is the fact that the COMEX December gold contract last traded at $294.00 at the time COMEX closed its abbreviated session. (For what it's worth, next week the exchange will continue to trade with shortened sessions -- from 9:00 to 1:00 Eastern time.)

The final piece of information is a snapshot of those closest to today's settlement of trade.

The CoinGuy (09/25/01; 05:38)
#### $293.25 ####

Christian (09/27/01; 06:59)
##### $293.50 #####

Old Yeller (9/27/01; 09:42)
####### $293.90 ########

Beer Man (9/26/01; 16:20)
###### 294.00 ####

Shermag (9/27/01; 09:39)
##### $294.80 #####

Clearly a man after my own heart, the single prize goes to (or *appears* to go to in my nonbinding assessment)..... BEER MAN!!!!! Way to go, guy. You nailed it!! And you ALSO apparently have a silver eagle coming to you for your bravery in submitting your very first post to the forum. You sure know how to make it count!

In light of your name, and with the weekend upon us, be sure to raise a pint to toast yourself, and raise a cheer for the generosity of our fine host and ALL the staff at Centennial Precious Metals! Hip Hip Hurrah!

Netking (9/28/01; 14:06:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 62592)
Afghanistan Cont . . . "People are about to die on a massive scale"
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=219464&thesection=news&thesubsection=world
Snippets, they say it all:

- A starving human mass . . . is struggling to escape 23 years of war, the worst drought in 30 years and the approaching bitter winter.

- the next few months will be "depressingly dismal".

- People are about to die on a massive scale; that is basic fact. All we can do is try to minimise the number. This is a devastating situation. It has been a slowly evolving crisis, but since the tragedy in America it has begun to spiral out of control and winter isn't even here."

- Up to 1.5 million anxious Afghans are thought to be descending on Pakistan. A further 500,000 to one million are drifting north to Tajikistan.

- In most cases there is little or no safe drinking water or sanitation. Diarrhoea reaps a daily harvest.

BR549 (9/28/01; 13:47:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 62591)
Afghanistan Update-Taliban steals humanitarian food and causes their country to starve
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1560000/1560689.stm
"Taleban officials have reportedly seized about 1,400 tonnes of food from a UN food agency office in Afghanistan, which aid workers fear is on the brink of a massive humanitarian crisis.

A spokesman for the UN's World Food Programme, which has an office in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar, says the premises were closed down shortly after the supplies were confiscated. "



Netking (9/28/01; 13:29:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 62590)
Auspec
Auspec - Thanks for the articles on Ag, I think Morgan's one is right on the mark.

Dr. Heinrich Leopold's article says >; ". . . This time, the situation is even more dramatically as zinc and lead prices are even lower than in 1998. Our silver price target for end of 2001 is USD 7 per oz and USD 10 per oz for spring 2002. At the end of 2002 we will see some decline of the silver price as zinc production once again increases. . ."

Netking > Good price forcasts from Heinrich up until spring 2002, BUT I think his perception of a decline in the POS by the end of 2002 shows he may not have a total understanding of the true D & S situation, I think this decline prediction for the end of next year is W A Y out. IMO
- Netking

AEL (9/28/01; 13:09:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 62589)
Afghanistan Update

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,554310,00.html

Afghanistan facing humanitarian disaster
Steven Morris and Felicity Lawrence
Wednesday September 19, 2001
The Guardian

Aid workers forced to flee Afghanistan warned yesterday that the
country would be pushed into catastrophe unless the US threat of
retaliation for last week's terror attacks is withdrawn. Even
before the attacks, aid agencies issued dire warnings that
Afghanistan was heading for disaster. A three year drought on top
of two decades of war and Soviet occupation has left more than 5m
people - a quarter of the population - threatened by starvation.

Remote villages will soon be cut off by snow without the
stockpiles of supplies from international agencies that might have
carried them through the winter. In the cities there have been
crippling increases in the price of food, and epidemics are
threatening to take hold in the packed and filthy refugee camps.

Dominic Nutt, emergency officer for Christian Aid, said: "It's as
if a mass grave has been dug behind millions of people. We can
drag them back from it or push them in. We could be looking at
millions of deaths."

more....

-----------------

http://www.zmag.org/solomoncivilians.htm

Killing Civilians: Behind the Reassuring Words

By Norman Solomon

The Bush administration has vowed that it will not aim the
Pentagon's firepower at civilian targets in Afghanistan. Such
assurances are supposed to make us think that innocent bystanders
will be spared when the missiles fly and the warheads explode.
Don't believe it.

Back in early August 1945, President Truman had this to say: "The
world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on
Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this
first attack to avoid, in so far as possible, the killing of
civilians."

Actually, the U.S. government went out of its way to select
Japanese cities of sufficient size to showcase the extent of the
A-bomb's deadly power. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki, hundreds of
thousands of civilians died -- immediately or eventually -- as a
result of the atomic bombings.

more.......


site steward (9/28/01; 13:04:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 62588)
HEADLINE: Dollar to Fall as Investors Shun U.S.: Currency Focus
http://www.bloomberg.com/emu/emu_news2.html?s=AO7Su2hWNRG9sbGFy
London, Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Citibank, the biggest trader in the $1.1 trillion-a-day foreign exchange market, expects the dollar to fall against the euro and the yen by the end of the year as foreign investors cut back on purchases of U.S. assets.
...
"U.S. investments are less attractive to foreigners now," said Steven Saywell, a currency strategist at the Citigroup Inc. unit, which ranked No.1 in Euromoney magazine's May 2001 poll of market share. "There is a threat to corporate earnings."
...
As the U.S. falls into recession "corporate earnings news will disappoint investors, drying up flows" into U.S. assets, said John Kyriakopoulos, a currency strategist at J.P. Morgan. "That will drive the dollar lower."
---------- (see URL for more) ---------

If corporations are falling onto hard times, not only will investments in their stock suffer, but there would also be increased fears of default risk upon their corporate bonds.

As the dollar heads lower, there is no safety to be found in cash, either. And in this economic climate, you don't want to hold short-term government bills because the low yield is poor compensation for the weakening dollar (and rising prices).

Further, with the Fed's easing of monetary policy to depress these short term yields as mentioned above, the accompanying inflationary risk will likely drive down the principle value of long-term government bonds, further dampening corporate malaise as people in the market find it more difficult/costly to raise financing due to rising long-term interest rates.

What does that leave you with? Either gambling on other paper currencies or in other markets (which will likely slow with the U.S. downturn), or diversifications into hard assets. Of the realm of hard assets, gold is most liquid, traded 24-hrs a day and recognized as wealth around the world. When the NY markets shut down for the week following the attacks, nobody really knew what their stocks or futures were worth during that time.

Admit it. Every paper shuffler that you know (you, too(?)), including "owners" of COMEX gold futures and options, had moments of doubt (truly, moments of INSIGHT) about the actual quality of their investment choices while the markets were locked up.

But physical gold owners slept well and never had a doubt.

Are you and your portfolio ready for uncertainty in days ahead?

site steward (9/28/01; 12:31:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 62587)
The following is a good encapsulation offered by Reuters at the end of London's trading day
LONDON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Gold traded higher on Friday afternoon in Europe, although it remained in its $285/295 range as market participants took out small long positions ahead of the weekend, traders said.

"People are putting something in their pockets just in case something happens and we come in on Monday and the price is up through the roof," one said.

Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD (9/28/01; 11:56:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 62586)
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