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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/28/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Topaz
(11/28/00; 23:36:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 42427)
Randy, USAGold.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen! So noble of you both to jump to the defence of the WGC and it's Spokespeople.
My remark this am (local) was a quick response prior to leaving for work and indeed reflected my thoughts of the previous nights post.
The WGC to all intents and purposes do NOT effectively promote Gold the Asset, do NOT actively market Gold the Asset "in the trenches", and do NOT countenance the miriad small holders of Gold the Asset who rightly or wrongly look to them for support in these trying times.
What they DO do well is market high value added Trinkets to the "well-to-do". They speak eloquently/somberly at small gatherings of "the converted" when Gold is comatose and then loud and long (9 times out of 10 negatively) to all and sundry when Gold shows any sign of life.
No Gents, they DON'T represent MY interests whatsoever, (they're not paid to) If you feel they well and truely represent yours then you're getting a free ride.
I truly cannot see the WGC making the transition to high Dollar Gold unscathed....can you?
All IMHO of course.
SHIFTY
(11/28/00; 22:51:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 42426)
Test
Test
Slow night?
$hifty
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 21:05:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42425)
Randy
Not sure but I'd like the answer. I believe Stranger can be of some assistance. I suppose I should have looked myself but alas, the road is beckoning.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 21:02:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42424)
Cavan Man, request for a clarification
Your comment, "...if one goes to the US Treasury web site, one can find that the FED has monetized $19 billion already this year."
Being poised to power down this system for a brief rest, I do not want to delve into the Treasury site to verify the numbers, so I will simply ask. Are you sure you have not mistaken a Treasury Department securites buy-back for this other concept of a Fed monetization? They are quite apart in their implications, and I was referring to the latter (monetization) phenomenon, not the former (buy-back) which seems to be implied in your comment. Thanks in advance.
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 20:53:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 42423)
Hill Billy Mitchell
HBM: Did you receive your Title X stipend yet? I am going to invest it in a few silver coins.
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 20:51:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 42422)
Randy (@the tower)
According to Stranger, if one goes to the US Treasury web site, one can find that the FED has monetized $19 billion already this year. Apparently SS has "monetized" the rest. In my view, managing the money supply to achieve specific objectives and "monetizing" are two very different means to achieve dissimiliar ends. "Monetizing" would seem to be a self-defeating act and perhaps a measure of the lack of success in "managing". Monetizing is an "all hands on deck" approach to avoiding the unintended consequences of "managing".
Lois
(11/28/00; 20:34:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 42421)
LOOK WHAT GORE WON
http://www.etherzone.com/henr120500.html
Here are the areas of the nation that gore won, click the link
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 20:25:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 42420)
Cavan Man and your suggestion of a "controlled burn strategy"
Good thought, but barring considerable international cooperation, the strategy for the "burn" is probably the only thing the various parties can hope to control, and not the burn itself. On the dollar front specifically, I wonder if the strategy, when necessary, calls for the Fed to issue dollars as necessary to buy US Tresuries returned from abroad (monetize the debt) to maintain the appearance of low open-market interest rates, or whether the strategy of an implied resolve not to intervene in the bond market makes for better workout conditions. Methinks that would only lead to rolling defaults, so....
"Monetize" it is.
Many international central banks hold significant quantities of gold for a reason. That is the reason. For the same reason an individual should hold gold, too.
TheStranger
(11/28/00; 20:23:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 42419)
Cavan Man
They have a ton of debt. But that means more leverage and bigger gains for you and me if we ever get a real gold rally. Maybe one has just started. Hope so.
Perplexed
(11/28/00; 20:10:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 42418)
Rats
It has been a very common expression for many years the even the winner of a rat race is still a rat. Lets ad a little to it. With either a winning rat or horse or dog, you may rest assured that the owners of either will reap far greater rewards, than those who merely bet on them.
Perplexed
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 19:56:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 42417)
the Stranger
NEM does carry a wee bit o'debt doesn't it? I will agree as a much smaller stakeholder that NEM is a very good play in AU equities!!! But, oh that debt! :>(
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 19:53:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 42416)
Randy aka "Towne Crier" (in days of yore)
Mr. Poole seems to have had a change of heart when it comes to inflation. I can't quote the source or article but, this is the very self same William Poole (family member worked for him) who declared not so very long ago that the inflation outlook was benign. In fact, his comments (reported here) were so dumb, they did not even merit the keystrokes. Along with the Venezuela CBer, the Rothchild chap and the WGC pronouncement all of recent vintage (lest I forget the ECB? open air discussion of increasing gold reserves), I SAY THERE IS A DEFINITE CHANGE AFOOT IN THE GOLD MARKET. SHE IS READY TO RISE. I BET THERE IS A CONTROLLED BURN STRATEGY IN PLACE. IT WILL BE FUN TO WATCH.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 19:36:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 42415)
Wading into the deep Poole of future inflation
http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/11/28/economy/wires/fed_wg/
HEADLINE: St. Louis Fed president sees a long-term risk of renewed U.S. inflation threat
St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank president William Poole said at a conference today that when taking a view of a three to ten year timeframe, "the bigger risk we face is that inflation is more likely to rise than fall," also adding that "There is a lot of information to suggest overall credit quality has deteriorated a little."
On the topic of a "hard landing" or other market seizure such as occurred in tandem with the Russian default and LTCM failure in 1998, Mr. Poole said, "There is no question if there was an event when the whole market mechanism broke down because of declines in one day or a few hours, the Fed would certainly be prepared to step in to restore normal functioning in markets."
Getting back to his views toward inflation, in a separate Reuters article, Poole, who becomes a voting member of the policy-setting FOMC next year, said that actual and expected inflation rates made poor guides in forming Fed policy because they were likely to be slow to reflect conditions on the ground at a time when price pressures could flare up. Bringing back shades of monetarism in contrast to recent views held by the more esteemed Fed Chairman, Poole said, "We need to concentrate on the underlying determinants of inflation and early warning signs. The rate of money growth, spreads in financial markets, the supply-demand balance across industries in general and the behavior of specific prices likely to lead overall inflation are relevant."
Hi-Hat
(11/28/00; 19:20:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 42414)
NEWMONT
I never bought 1 share of Newmont, but I own a chunk of it.
How?
I was long Sante Fe Pacific Gold and Newmont bought them out for stock.
Then I was long Battle Mountain Gold, and Newmont bought them out for stock.
Seems the more gold companies I own, the more Newmont
I end up with.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 19:13:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42413)
I will take sound fiscal policy over reliance on monetary manipulation 9 times out of 10
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,404315,00.html
HEADLINE: Governor says joining euro means return to tax and spend policy
Bank of England governor Eddie George said yesterday in a meeting with Treasury select committee MPs that putting interest rate controls into the hands of the ECB would necessarily shift Britain's policy focus.
"We would have to look more to fiscal policy ... and that would involve recognition by the people of this country that their behaviour would have to be driven by the need to control inflation."
In my view, the resulting constraints imposed by a nation-neutral money supply via the euro (or gold currency, for that matter) is one step better than expecting to have individual behavior molded by a government's management of interest rates driven by its own concept of inspiring preferable behaviour and hoped-for outcome.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 18:59:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 42412)
dec first notice is thursday
so if you don't take delivery you're out tomorrow, the question is where will dec gold settle tomorrow?????????????????????????????????????????
276+
I'll stick my neck out. give me delivery short people, I think there's a song about you .
TheStranger
(11/28/00; 18:39:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 42411)
To Pandagold - Re: The Pedantic Mr. Schnitzler
Thank you for posting the Dale Schnitzler letter. (I guess). With all due respect to you, however, I feel compelled to comment. I am one of Newmont's largest shareholders (you're just going to have to believe me on this). As such, I have more than just a passing interest in, and knowledge of, this well-respected company.
It is too bad the pedantic Mr. Schnitzler didn't do his homework before trapsing his remarks out for the whole world to admire. If he had, he would know that Newmont's CEO, Wayne Murdy, has held his position for less than two weeks. Furthermore, Mr. Schnitzler might have learned that Newmont has a tradition of eschewing hedges almost entirely. As such, Newmont's shareholders are more exposed to fluctuations in the price of gold than almost any other gold mine shareholders in the world. This is why the stock price has suffered. But it is also why, in a rising gold price environment, Newmont's shares often outperform.
The company's philosophy is to give stockholders maximum exposure to the price of gold. I believe management deserves credit for this policy. They are one of the very few goldminers who understand that exposure to the price of gold is why shareholders buy these stocks in the first place. Meanwhile, managers who hedge in this industry sacrifice the upside opportunity their shareholders undeniably seek. I think it fair to posit that this is done to maximize current earnings in a cynical effort to fatten executive paychecks.
I would be very surprised if Mr. Scnitzler gets a response to his grandstanding letter. I think Wayne Murdy has much better uses for his time.
There is no reason why you should have been expected to know all of this, Pandagold. So please don't take offense at my remarks. I just wanted to set the record straight. Thanks.
nickel62
(11/28/00; 18:38:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42410)
Pandagold
Aren't you taking to task the one major gold mining company who has tried to remain loyal to its shareholder's interest in owning a non hedged or lightly hedged gold producer. It is easy for you or I or GATA to point the finger at the investment banks and their powerful allies in government and say that they are manipulating the price of gold. It is an entirely different thing for a large North American gold producer who is very much dependent apon the continued good graces of these same powerful investment banks and their friends in the banking community and government to speak out about "alleged" manipulation. My arguement is basically while I am as frustrated as the next gold stock investor you really have chosen the company who has most fought this onslaught when there are many others who you could more accurately portray as accompliches in this travesty. I think we all owe Newmont a little more understanding since they have been dealing in a life and death struggle that we are well aware of and yet we ask them to stand forth and fight the powers that have such utter control. I think that our criticism is not only unfair it is naive.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 18:17:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42409)
Attention to would-be poster "joromo777"
I am unable to deliver your posting password due to a non-functional e-mail address for you that was received on my end. Please contact me by e-mail to receive your password.
Randy
sitemaster@usagold.com
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 18:00:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 42408)
The settlements and repositioning of the "Gentlemen's wagers" on COMEX
This is important, of course, because similar to most formal gambling/betting operations in which the quoted "line", "spread", or "odds" change in reaction to the preponderance of betting positions, so too does the price quoted for these COMEX futures contracts change in accordance with the preponderance of more aggressive "buy-side" or "sell-side" pressures for these these futures contracts.
Today's release of numbers on yesterday's COMEX trading action reveals that there was a net closure of 16,000 of the 51,000 December contracts in open interest, leaving 35,000 December contracts outstanding for trade ahead of Thursday's First Notice Day for delivery. Given the increase in prices quoted for the December contracts yesterday, it is clear that those with short positions to exit set the net pace of the trading. But clearly, even with the 59,000 back-and-forth trading volume on the December contract seen on Monday, the net interest of the longs and the shorts alike was to liquidate their respective positions for cash prior to the arrival of the delivery window this coming Thursday.
Total COMEX gold futures trading on Monday was 96,000, while today's estimated volume for all COMEX gold futures was 75,000 contracts. And the parade marches on. As of yesterday's trade, open interest in the February contract has climbed by 13,000 to 56,500. To be sure, in tandem with the net perceptions provided through the bullion banking system, physical gold acquirers are for the present time on the beneficial end of a mechanism that delivers the world's premier financial asset at historically low real valuations...an unsustainable condition that, when it comes undone, will benefit only those who bought into the gold and not into the mechanism.
I hope my posting of these COMEX numbers does nothing to wrongly give an impression that COMEX action holds the key to the future of gold. It does not. I have every confidence that you already know where signs and delivery of that bright future is to be found.
Journeyman
(11/28/00; 17:02:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 42407)
Prediction & Power @Miner49er
Hi Miner!
I've got to get back to my regular life, so just a short observation on your post FWIW:
I think that we tend to both underestimate and overestimate the power of TPTB. Alan Greenspan, generally credited as probably one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, man in the world, admits the FED is greatly limited in what they can accomplish -- because of the REAL power.
That "real power" is market forces, which involve the parallel movement of many players, often without explicit agreement, in response only to mutually percieved circumstances. THIS is the real force, which Greenspan himself admits he is unable to overcome, which is the REAL Power That Be, and humbles even such as George Soros. We have to be careful not to attribute this market power and its results elsewhere, else we will be completely intimidated into depression and inaction.
Regards,
Journeyman
Rockgrabber
(11/28/00; 16:47:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 42406)
49er
miner49er its bad to have people agree with you, being they are mostly all non thinkers. But I agree with you, heehhe..TPTB will never expose this stuff untill it has been exposed for them by them. THET DRIVE THE CAR TILL IT RUNS OUT OF GAS.
By the way hold it in, dont exhale untill you have to, eheheh. I already know the goverments policy on DRUGS, they love them fore all the money they are worth, eheheh. But seriously, if people keep up smoking dope they will see its all about keeping their eyes closed. If they do Coke or Crack or so then they die and that is one less the UN will have to kill through their starvation program. Drugs are illigal cause they want people to not beable to think, marijauna is illigal cause they dont want people to beale to think. Contradictory?? Ya but so are they. It just shows they are as stupid as it looks. Evil doing will have evil rewards, that they dont understand, and that makes them the hardest headed of them all. Its cause people dont believe if people are that smart they could be that stupid. Lies....... Anytime you have to hide behind a lie, you had better forget about it. The cabal is all about lies, and the dumbest people are not the ones that cant spell, their the ones that lie at will. The people that think they can lie and escape it are dumber then should and will be allowed to live. Thats good enough said with that.
Pandagold
(11/28/00; 16:42:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42405)
Taken from Raging Bull
The following is an open leter written to the CEO of Newmont
An Open Letter to Newmont Mining
By Dale Schnitzler
As a former larger shareholder and backer of Newmont
Mining I would like some answers from you as to the
reasons for the excessive destruction of shareholder
value at Newmont while on your watch. That is, over
the last 5 years Newmont's stock price has gone from
around $60.00 a share to a little more than $13.00 on
the NYSE close today -- a destruction of wealth of
almost 80 percent.
Now as a seasoned investor of some 25 years, I have
seen many a bear and bull markets, and have owned other
companies before that have declined even more than 80%.
However, I have NEVER owned companies in an industry
such as yours where the CEO's and management teams are
so totally complacent after such a long fall. Further,
from all outward public appearances, Newmont's
management team seems to not only be satisfied with the
company's stock performance, but it appears take
exception to shareholders who are critical of the
company and those same shareholders who have questions
about the shenanigans which are occurring daily in the
gold market.
As I said earlier, having followed financial markets
for more than 25 years, it is CRYSTAL CLEAR to anyone
who is watching that all is not right in the gold
market. Hundreds of thousands of investors and market
participants either believe or know the gold market is
being manipulated, yet the management's at the major
mining companies remained conspicuously silent. My
questions to you below are designed to ascertain
whether you are aware of the ongoing manipulation in
the gold market, and if you are, whether your
management team is part of that manipulation. The
questions I am seeking your answers to are as follow,
and I would appreciate specific answers to these
questions:
1. Have you read the Gold Derivative Banking Crisis
report that GATA personally presented to the speaker of
the House, Denny Hastert? It can be located at
www.GATA.org. A copy was sent to Newmont by GATA
Chairman Bill Murphy. If you didn't read it, why
haven't you? If you did read it and you did not agree
with the VOLUMINOUS amount our evidence that the gold
market is manipulated, please list what you find is
wrong in that document. Specifics please.
2. How do you account for the buildup of gold
derivatives on the books of J.P. Morgan, Chase, and
Deutsche Bank -- banks that GATA has cited as part of
the gold cabal for two years? The derivatives at other
banks like UBS Warburg have not gone up at all. Please
explain your interpretation of this massive explosion
derivative positions.
3. How do you explain the price of gold rising $84
after the Washington Agreement only to come all the way
down again to the same price, all while there is a huge
natural gold supply/demand deficit? My own sources put
the supply deficit at 1,500 tonnes annually. Where is
the gold coming from? Please be specific as to your
beliefs of where all this gold is coming from to
support this deficit.
4. How do you account for the gold price going down
when many hedgers are delivering into their hedges and
reducing gold supply that would have been supplied to
the market? It was recently announced that the big
Australian hedger Sons of Gwalia has delivered into
their forward sales all year (contrary to what the
market had been thinking). Please be specific.
5. How does Newmont account for the fact that gold
always goes down on days when it should go up -- like
today for example, in the midst of a collapsing NASDAQ
and a presidential political crisis? That has been the
case for years. Every single time. How do you account
for the fact that gold has not been allowed to rally
decently for two days in a row for the past seven
months? Not one time. Free markets do NOT trade this
way. Even when the Dow was around 800 back in 1982,
and in a nasty bear market, it NEVER went seven months
without some sort of decent rally. Please explain your
belief as to why gold sells higher overnight the last
three months, only to get slammed every morning in New
York on the opening. And to add insult to injury, the
better the news for gold the harder it gets slammed.
Why is this?
6. Lastly, why do you offer financial and moral support
to anti-gold people and organizations such as Jessica
Cross at the World Gold Council, yet ignore
organizations like GATA, which has tried to help the
mining industry and its shareholders? Why has Newmont
not invited GATA to Colorado to present its findings
and discuss them? If you believe GATA is wrong and does
not deserve the financial and moral support of Newmont,
please explain why, and be specific.
Thank you for your attention and your anticipated
answers to my questions. Although I hold only a few
shares of Newmont -- fewer than 1,500 -- I hope to take
a substantial position in Newmont someday. However, it
may have to wait until Newmont either gets a management
team that has an understanding of the industry, or a
management that isn't involved in manipulating the
price of gold lower for its own ends. Clearly, your
management's behavior regarding the gold market is a
true enigma.
I look forward to written responses to my questions.
-END-
Journeyman
(11/28/00; 16:35:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 42404)
Dental gold CAUTION!! @nummus aureus #42382
A friend of mine in the pawn business in his younger years tried melting dental metal in a crucible. It often contains Hg (mecury) as well as those other metals mentioned by auspec, and my friend vaporised the mercury, nearly killing himself when he inhaled, and reducing his IQ by a significant amount. (It seems he recovered much of that after chelation for many years.)
Regards,
Journeyman
miner49er
(11/28/00; 16:15:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 42403)
Journeyman #42388 - Predictions...
Mr. Journeyman - I dunnnno... I just can't seem to see these guys as quitting yet. This whole event, IMHO, was highly pre-meditated. Obviously not the details, but the overall strategy. Me thinks there's some bigger reason to have gone thru all this trouble so far. Me also thinks there's lots more rabbits in the hat.
I'm sure we will see heinous destruction of Bush electors (if it gets that far) in those States where it can happen, in order to get them to change their minds, and I'm just waiting for Ms. Reno and DOJ to get involved. There's just too much stuff out there for DOJ not to pick up on something.
Why all the trouble for this? Me thinks there's an awful lot to hide, and an awful lot of things in the works, that just can't come to a halt because of something silly like losing an election.
The other day I suggested that big global money wants Gore. I know this is at odds with almost every commentator who points out otherwise, and wants to point to coincidental evidence of the markets going up whenever positive Bush news comes out, and down otherwise.
While I agree that the typical investor probably views, cursorily, a Bush Admin as generally pro-business, and favoring tax and regulation relief, hence good for their investments, this is not (again IMHO) what I perceive BIG money as caring about.
BIG money (the kind that is moved by the likes of TPTB), I would think prefers things like carry-trades, where they can (because of who they are), borrow gargantuan amounts and make commensurately gargantuan returns on the carry spread, and do it over and over again. They have (because of who they are) the necessary inside information to know with reasonable certainty what they're facing, and they have (because of who they are) the capability to influence these variables as well.
This kind of money, really BIG money, I believe prefers a Gore Admin because of the continuity, and they know Gore will indeed play the games, just like WJC himself.
I believe that this kind of influence/pressure can more or less force this election against not only the "will of the people," but against the opinions of fellow politicos in their own ranks, who are not perhaps privy to everything.
Btw... where is Mr. Man right now? I doubt very much he's just out playing the links with Vernon Jordan, and getting ready to sunset into a life of telling war stories to college freshman on the lecture circuit.
I sense his handling of this situation keenly. And I don't think they will leave without the dirtiest catfight this nation has ever seen. (I also hold by my statement (Post #42096 11/24) that the U.N. will be able to potentially find its way into this whole thing to offer "guidelines" on settling the matter, or even volunteer to arbitrate the matter. Hell, why not... every other weird thing happens, and frankly, really, does this really seem THAT implausible??)
Maybe the chaos that will ensue over this in the coming weeks will permit WJC to do what he'd really like, play king for a litte while longer...
Maybe I'm the one who's been smoking something... Clinton sez he didn't inhale. My problem could be that I didn't exhale...
What do you think?
Rgds,
miner49er
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 16:01:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 42402)
Rejection of Iraq's oil pricing formula
On my previous post, I neglected to bring forward a question. What should consumers--and particularly Europeans--think regarding the UN and the sanctions committee standing between them (the oil consumers) and Iraq's initial proposal of access to lower-priced oil?
To repeat from the previous post: Bridge News reports that "the sanctions committee rejected the original formula because the prices were below market value."
Amazing.
auspec
(11/28/00; 15:51:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 42401)
nummus aureus #42382
Your dental "gold" is probably a real grab bag of various metals. The more yellow metals are probably near %60 gold. Of much more importance will be platinum and palladium as they are used extensively in dentistry. The more "silvery" metals often contain Pd & Pt. Of course gold is now much cheaper to use than Pt or Pd. There will likely be non- precious metals in the pile as well, Ni, Be, Cu, Ag, etc.
The key is to find an honest and reliable refiner, or just keep the stuff around looking for higher prices. Sounds like you really got your $'s worth. Will also make nice Christmas presents {right}!
aunuggets
(11/28/00; 15:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 42400)
Latest Poll Numbers.....
Rising Fast
A couple of this afternoons poll numbers.
Percentage of those polled that think it is time for Gore to concede the election:
AOL poll -- 79%
CNN poll -- 62%
USA today -- 76%
Numbers seem to rise several points every time he opens his mouth in front of the media.
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 14:42:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 42399)
Euros vs. dollars and oil pricing
http://www.futuresource.com/reg/cgi-bin/art?001128/103454
On the cusp of Iraq moving away from dollar-denominated trade settlements in favor of euros, the U.S. is now seen breaking from the long tradition of making only 6-month extensions to the post-Gulf War oil-for-food program, offering a one-year deal when the current 6-month phase comes to an end December 5th. This one-year offer was also proposed by the U.S. last year in the face of rapidly rising oil prices, but it failed to gain the support of the UN Security Council.
Most interestingly, while Iraq (insisting on euro-settlement rather than dollars) has the responsibility to submit their oil selling price formula for approval as part of these programs, Bridge News reports that "the sanctions committee rejected the original formula because the prices were below market value."
Can you imagine the effect of euro-denominated oil prices that were less than what the exchange rate would seemingly dictate based on the prevailing dollar-denominated price? An arbitrage opportunity that would weigh upon the dollar upon the forex market, and more potential for a turn in psychology that would eventually upset the applecart of US dollar hegemony.
Gold is your international safe-haven against these currency wranglings. Most significantly, with many national currencies prone to manipulation by their issuers, gold is the one "reserve currency" that can be allowed to rise in exchange rates without a concurrent risk of destroying an issuing nation's balance of trade. Prepare yourself, sit back, and smile knowingly as events continue to unfold.
Gandalf the White
(11/28/00; 14:21:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42398)
Ski's post #42397
Thank you Ski!!!! --- Please post more often <;-)
ski
(11/28/00; 14:10:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 42397)
New Opportunities Conference
Hi folks,
I just returned from the New Opportunities
Conference in San Francisco held Thanksgiving
weekend. This conference has formerly been called a
gold and natural resources conference but it appears
as though there is not enough money with the juniors
and explorers to fund trade show expenditures
anymore. Furthermore, there is apparently not enough
investor interest around to attend an even FREE
program like this! A partial list of the primary
speakers includes: Rick Rule, Scott Fraser, Paul
Rabbitt, Robert Bishop, Ian McAvity, Kenneth Coleman,
Frank Holmes, Paulvan Eeden, Lawrence Roulston, James
Dines, Adrian Day and Mary Anne Aden.
I need to back up for a minute and let the
reader know that this is only my second post on this
helpful site. And secondly, and more importantly,
the reason for this post is to vent some of the
excitment and anger that I built up at the Conference
when many of the above speakers put out information
that was incorrect, misleading, out-dated, false or
very inconsistant. Because I did not intend to post,
my notes are not as complete or as accurate as they
might have been. So if I get anything a little
wrong, please excuse me this one time.
The overall mood of both the speakers and
attendees was very muted. There was much less
interaction with the exhibitors and more people chose
to spend there time listening to dull presentations
in the main meeting hall. (Hello!! If even the die
hard contrarian, investors and newsletter writers
don't care, we MUST BE at or near the bottom.)
I did not hear one speaker that believed that
there has been manipulation in either the gold or
silver market. The collective attitude was, "It's
just the way things are. We have always had bull and
bear markets in natural resources and this is just
another one." In one breath they will state that
central bank crowd or Washington bureaucrats have got
to rank as some of the dubest people in the world
becuse any thinking person can see that what they are
doing is dead wrong. But in the next breath they
will acknowledge that these people might in fact be
brilliant beause of what they are able to get away
with. (Hello! It can only be one or the other.)
The speakers felt that we are near the bottom in
the NASDAQ because it has fallen so far. In the next
breath the same speaker would say that the NASDAQ is
still way, way overvalued. (HELLO!)
The thing that fried me the most was when one of
the speakers correctly stated that there has been a
bear market in stock 35% of the time in the last
century and then immediately show you a graph of the
DOW that not been adjusted for inflation. The
non-adjusted graph will only show you ONE bear
market; the one that started in 1929. (Hello! We
normal humans adjust for inflation in EVERY other
aspect of our life. We anxiously line up to buy
hambergers for $3 when that same burger in 1920 would
cost a couple of pennies. Why do we do it? We have
adjusted our expectations to reflect inflation. The
only way to get an accurate picture of the stock
market or any other market is to adjust it for
inflation.)
When speaking on energy, most speakers felt that
oil and natural gas investments were good and that we
could very easily have a price spike to $50 oil IF WE
HAVE AT LEAST A SLIGHTLY COLDER THAN NORMAL WINTER.
There is not enough production, transportation or
refinery capacity. A question from the floor asked
"what about uranium, and the fact that Cameco, the
premiere world producer has just made a new 52 week
high?" The response was "So What?" (Hello, isn't
uranium another energy domino that is an important
part of the big picure?) The only speaker that even
mentioned uranium was Dines. He was bullish.
The speakers, by and large didn't even want to
talk about silver. The "collective" acted like it is
dead and that you will only get their attention if
and when it starts to move. Only Dines seemed to be
paying attention to it. (Hello! I have a personal,
23 point investment strategy. #11 says: "Look for
temporary opportunities to be contrary to the
contrarians. Look for times when even the
contrarians temporarily switch positions, go over to
the crowd, or just get tired of beating their drums
and have grown temporarily silent.")
Adrian Day: brought out this interesting piece
of information. He reported on a study that was done
to determine if gold hedging has actually helped a
companys stock price? His answer was that the study
concluded that HEDGING DID NOT HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT
ON SHARE PRICES? Whether a company hedges or not, in
a falling gold market, companies have performed
equally poor.
Frank Holmes: Due to the internet, people can
measure their net worth immediately. This has an
almost immediate impact on retail sales. Look for a
slow down, falling sales and lowering of earnings
estimates. He likes oil, gas, platinum and palladium
(as did virtually all the other speakers). Because
of CB selling, gold projects need to be HUGE &
ECOOMICAL.
Van Eden: Gold will rise when the dollar falls.
It is in a bull market in most other countries.
There is some level of a currency crisis occuring in
almost every country in the world. Gold did not
decline, the dollar rose. Gold is still the best
currency protection.
Dines: By the time you see a bandwagon it is
late. He who is FIRST always looks wrong. There has
never been a previous palladium market. The next few
months are critical to the stock market's future
direction. AIR POCKETS are a very dangerous sign.
When something falls a lot with no support this is a
very serious matter. Looking for a gold buy signal
soon but not yet.
Bishop: Markets can't be timed so get in when
the odds are in your favor.
Rule: Coal is a good idea. (Hello! Isn't this
energy?)
Can't rempmber who said it (Day or Bishop): The
interest in gold stocks is presently near zero. You
will usually need to be pre-positioned. The reason
for this is that if you discover that a stock has
jumped 30%, your tendency will be to wait for it to
come back a little before you buy as this is USUALLY
the prudent thing to do. But if they don't come
back, there is a good chance you will fail to get on
board.
Richard Sacks: Mining shares can now be
purchased for less than it costs to drill them. Many
companies are selling for less than their value.
McAvity: There are no absolutes in the markets.
There you have it. I could go on and on. These
notes are enough for you to digest at the moment. I
came back from this conference more positive than
ever about the precious metal complex. I may not
have conveyed that fact in all of the above text, but
this looks like one of the truely opportune times
that rarely come around in a normal lifetime.
God Bless................ Ski
Pandagold
(11/28/00; 14:03:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 42396)
WGC & Ms Fukuda
Come on fellows, how can you take any words from someone with a name like that seriously. Actually,come to think of it, she doesn't have to say anything, except give her name - it says all there is to say about the gold business at the moment,as far as the WGC is concerned; it's both profound and non-commital
Rockgrabber
(11/28/00; 14:00:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 42395)
Pandagold
We are like the Palistinians throwing rocks at Israel/USA. We are just trying to get some attention to a matter that we see happening, and nobody cares to look at. You are right, I have thought about this, and here is what I see to be the fact. They will never go and expose what they are up to, and they will not panic before it is due, for this is a game that you just keep playing and cheating, and keep cheating untill someone calls your bluff. The public folks have to call the bluff, but they play the game blindfolded, and the cards they get and cant see, they ask the dealer to tell them what they are, and how to play their cards, and then they actually do as he says ((Thats what happens when you trust the Devil)) They dont even know or give credit to the dealer, for being in the same game for himself. They think the dealer is honest, heeheheheh. I went to my local gold dealer this morning and he told me once again, for every 99 that come in to sell gold only 1 is buying. THAT WILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE!! Like trail guide says, at all costs, dont divulge a market dynamic that is delivering in your favor. Keep it secret untill last resort, and that is only when it is no longer secret. We know their secret, how many more will have to know??????
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 13:17:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42394)
Looks like I remain one step behind you, Michael
You are not only a quick mind but a fast one at the keyboard, too. Though my post was largely redundant to your effort, I hope the quote I offered by Miss Fukuda adds credence to your words.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 13:16:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 42393)
duck
force it to 2695 margin calls
wolavka
(11/28/00; 13:11:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 42392)
keep hammering duck and dow
they will get the point, gold will pop
Randy (@ The Tower)
(11/28/00; 13:08:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 42391)
Sierra Madre, Topaz; RE: Dr. Weinberg
Topaz, I'll offer this in response to what you claimed as an intial thought ("there's a bloke who'll be looking for another job tomorrow") upon seeing Dr. Robert Weinberg's specific comments.
You may be glad to know that his job is safe in this regard, as this was the specific area he was hired by the WGC back in February to promote. A 1973 graduate of Oxford University, he has served as head of the global mining research team at SG Warburg, and was later a director of the investment banking division of Deutsche Bank in London.
Upon being brought on board by the World Gold Council, CEO Haruko Fukuda said in a press release marking the occasion: "We are delighted to have secured the services of someone with the exceptional experience of Dr Weinberg. His extensive knowledge of all aspects of the gold mining industry will prove invaluable to us ***as we drive the work of the Council further into institutional investment, an area we regard as having considerable potential for future gold demand.***"
It is good to know the WGC is doing more than feebly promoting gold as adornment, agree? But regardless, those wheels are turning whether the WGC throws its shoulder against it or not--but it is just as well that they do. Globally, this is currently in the momentum-building phase.
USAGOLD
(11/28/00; 12:54:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 42390)
Topaz. . .
Just a short note to say that the World Gold Council operates on several levels within the gold market/industry. Some think that the WGC is interested only in jewelry and when you look at the web site and some of the recent statements from its New York operation, it is easy to see why that that is so. Haruko Fukuda, however, the Executive Director of the Council as a whole (based in London), is very much interested in gold's monetary and investment role. I do not recall ever having read a public speech by Ms. Fukuda in which those roles were not the central theme.
The WGC is very much interested in the what the central banks are doing in the gold market as well as its portfolio role with investors and sponsor a Public Policy Centre whose mission is work in that arena. So I think some of the bad rap they get is unfair. At the same time,I too believe that the connections to the bullion banks, and the reliance on them for research and information over the years has hurt the World Gold Council's image. That's a hole they will have to dig themselves out of by their future good deeds. As it is, their activity is being closely monitored by many including the esteemed and fair-minded knights and ladies of this table -- most of whom own the very metal the Council is mandated to promote and protect.
I doubt very much that Mr. Weinberg's job is in jeopardy. To the contrary, I believe that he's doing what the World Gold Council wants him to do -- solidify the role of gold in official sector reserves. What surprised me about his statments, as I am sure it did you, is that he wasn't afraid to dive into the issue of dollar hegemony and offer the golden solution. That I considered to be significant.
Thanks for the comments the substance of which I find agreeable. Mostly, I didn't want you to think that Mr. Weinberg was at odds with his employer. I also wanted to take a step toward clearing up the misconception that somehow the World Gold Council is on the other side. I disagree with that notion particularly since Ms. Fukuda took the helm.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 12:24:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 42389)
need to hammer dow & duck now
good move down would support gap up in gold tomorrow.
Journeyman
(11/28/00; 12:21:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42388)
Now you know why I don't make many predictions!! @ALL
Previous message:
Gore Camp has announced the VP is to speak shortly -- no topic has been announced.
This has the strong signature of a concession speech.
Regards,
Journeyman
wolavka
(11/28/00; 12:10:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 42387)
beesting
BRAVO!!!!!!!
beesting
(11/28/00; 12:06:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42386)
Supply-Demand-Taxation and Tax Havens!
Hi again Sir Pandagold,
This note is in response to Msg # 42368 and it's interesting Dave C # 42369 had a post on tax avoiders in the next post.
From your post concerning the loss of value for the Euro:
[Snip]
<<We say "possibly" because having a purely-electronic
currency helps fulfill the dream of all modern-day governments to be able to monitor every financial
transaction. Therefore, if a way can be found to make Europe 'cashless', without precipitating a complete loss of confidence, the euro might never have any physical form.>>]
My Comments:
Something not covered in the main stream news media reports on reasons currencies lose or retain value is this:
Many,many (And mostly the wealthy) try to keep wealth they may have accumulated beyond the prying eyes of Governments, or anyone else, for their own reasons!
In countries using cash it's very easy to change currencies into a more desirable currency, without anyone knowing,than it would be in a cashless society.(Gold is the ultimate!)
So lets do a hypothetical example on how some Euro's may be being exchanged for other currencies:
Lets say 1 trillion Euro's are printed(1 thousand billions).
Every month 2 billion Euro's are stored/exchanged/invested "Offshore" (out of the country) An electronic entry only, but it's 2 billion in wealth leaving the Euro zone, "Causing the Euro's original 1 trillion to lose a small amount of value each month. **This is also happening in the U.S, but because of the unique position of the U.S. dollar(World Currency) doesn't effect the dollars value as much as it would effect others....see below.
I seriously doubt if this would show up on any import/export trade figures.
Now, to see if this is happening lets look at a few exchange rates; Figures are taken from the latest "Yahoo" currency converter and may or may not be accurate:
1 Cyprus pound= $1.49 U.S. dollars.
1 Maltese Lira= $2.15 U.S. dollars.
1 Cayman Islands Dollar= $1.22 U.S. dollars.
Now, these are all very small island nations with little or no industry(NO EXPORTS) why would their currencies be stronger than the mighty U.S. dollar?
Answer: It's where "BIG" players store their wealth. Some might call it tax havens! Therefore, strengthening the local currencies value against all the other currencies in the world.How did the Swiss, a small country, get all that Gold??
Answer: For years it was the safe storage haven for anybody in the world that had managed to acquire a little extra wealth.
Here's another one:
1 Latvian Lat= $1.58 U.S. dollars.
(A haven for Russia and the Baltic region???..I don't know!)
**IMHO the "War on Drugs" instigated by the U.S. is a subterfuge! And through the IMF/Worldbank/ FED,is trying to keep track of all financial tranactions worldwide, so only the very few(The in Crowd) may benifit!
How can "WE" retain wealth, without others knowing about it?
Those in the Know....Are Buying Gold!....beesting.
Hill Billy Mitchell
(11/28/00; 12:03:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 42385)
Journeyman's prediction
If you turn out to be right be sure that I will take action the next time you make a prediction
HBM
Topaz
(11/28/00; 11:56:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 42384)
Sierra Madre/ All.
Saw that last night., (the WGC blokes quote) My initial thought was:- "theres a bloke who'll be looking for another job tomorrow" - but - you just possibly are correct, lots of noise re: too strong a Dollar of late and the Rothschild (tks MK) quote coupled with the continued squabbling over the presidency (small p).
All - Take a fools advice and move your "unallocated" metal, at the very least, to "allocated", quietly & quickly. Cop the charges - at best, get it the hell outa there!
Journeyman
(11/28/00; 11:41:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 42383)
A rare prediciton from Journeyman: Gore conceedes @ALL
Gore Camp has announced the VP is to speak shortly -- no topic has been announced.
This has the strong signature of a concession speech.
Regards,
Journeyman
nummus aureus
(11/28/00; 11:39:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 42382)
Sir Black Blade...
Sorry to arouse in you morbid thoughts. The heirs of a local dentist learned of me through an auctioneer, and I visted them at the dentist's former office. The tour of the work room was quite enlightening. I had no idea the level of craftsmanship required for the occupation, having never required the service.
I purchased from them, (what could politely be described as used), dental gold, and a delicate pair of tiny scissors, which I will try out on my tying desk. Not knowing the actual gold content, my offer of $500 for 2 1/2 pounds of "artifacts" was accepted.
Pandagold
(11/28/00; 11:37:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 42381)
Rockgrabber , put it back down
Maybe made of glass, friend, but it's the kind rocks bounce off. They know people know, how can anyone fail to see? Has it to be put in lights in Times Square? The point is, all feels secure, THEY DON'T CARE that anyone knows. The 'force' is with them. The secret is - don't fight the force, acknowledge, and go with the flow - it has to go somewhere. Right?
lamprey_65
(11/28/00; 11:25:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 42380)
Repost
http://www.bookmarkusa.com/pog1.jpg
I posted this late last night, but feel some may have missed it. If you take a hard look at the chart - things become clearer. Basically, anything below the current down-trendline is meaningless as far as sustained rallies go.
Out for the rest of the day...will check back later tonight.
lamprey_65 (11/27/00; 22:34:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 42325)
POG
Nice move today. From a technical point of view, a sustained close above $280 is needed to really show this to be more than just a meager rally...need to break above that down trendline.
Check the link above and also note how the '96-'99 bear market in gold was broken last September. What we've seen since could be described as "backing and filling."
Lamprey
Cavan Man
(11/28/00; 10:51:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 42379)
Thanks Sierra Madre...
.....for pointing the way! let's get back to GOLD discussion!
Sierra Madre
(11/28/00; 10:47:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42378)
LeSin's post at 2.16MT, No.42341 re World Gold Council
This appears to be a most important piece of news.
Robert Weinberg is sounding like GATA! Amazing.
The whole piece of news about the World Gold Council talking UP gold and decrying the undue influence of the Dollar in world monetary reserves - this is a different tune, altogether. Something has changed!
Does this new tune have anything to do with the Rothschild commentary on undesireability gold leasing and the continuous depression of the gold price?
The World Gold Council has changed its tune, that is noteworthy and portends changes, in my opinion.
Sierra.
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 10:01:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 42377)
you will see
more taking delivery of the physical, it's gonna explode.
Rockgrabber
(11/28/2000; 9:44:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 42376)
Pandagold
SSSSSHHHHH Keep that mouth shut!!! hahaha I hate the truth in this case. That is if everything goes perfect for that good ol cabal. Otherwise truth may be its getting out of their hands. And it is near time to grab whats left on the table, and hide. Their house is made of glass, and outsiders are starting to throw rocks, cause it is fun. ahhaha
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 9:40:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42375)
greenspan has plans
forget stock options
straight futures contracts on each individual stock.
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 9:33:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 42374)
more money to be made up now
simple, roll em and go long.
DaveC
(11/28/2000; 9:30:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 42373)
Feb gold futures
down only one thin dime as I try to type. 30K plus contracts already.
Pandagold, I have missed your posts. Sorry, too much to read and do. I will retrace.
Pandagold
(11/28/2000; 9:25:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42372)
Dave 'C' Gold, what's happening?
If you read my postings, Dave, you have seen that I told you -every time gold makes a move up, it merely presents an opportunity to slap it down and show it (and you) who's the King. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Gold will not move up until the agenda dictates. I believe Silver will break first, and at the moment it is going no place. But, the Euro will move before both. " Maybe I'm just a dreamer.....tra la la.."
Rockgrabber
(11/28/2000; 9:21:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 42371)
GOLD VOLUME
Wolavka whats your take on this volume and open interest? I see the volume is very large and they were not even able to really close out there DEC contracts. They are covering perhaps with the large Specs taking long positions, I am sure that all the small idiot specs who are short at a rate of 5 to 1 are thinking fffeewww ahh its coming back down, good thing we did not cover, heheheeh. Some of these dec contracts better be there cause they are taking delivery. What better time to put your money where you know it should be, get it while it is still there. Yep this game is coming to an end, and a long awaited one, cant keep this going for over another year or two. Everyday we await, it just makes that much more assure of a serious supply deficit to come, its already there, so this just makes it larger. I believe when ordinary folks start picking up Gold the game will be over, THEY CANT LET GOLD GET IN THE HANDS OF SLAVES.
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 9:12:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 42370)
Dave c
the add into for dec contract support trend line is 268.40. they should buy like crazy @ that point in time no advice and not to be used cause cftc will get made .
DaveC
(11/28/2000; 9:10:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 42369)
The IRS and Section 861
http://www.tax-news.com/html/oldnews/st_861_22_11_00.html
There was a story in the NYTimes last week about this same thing. Darn Americans who do not want to pay their fair share. Hope they use the proceeds to buy some gold!
"This apparently doesn't include what are called 'Section 861' cases in which a rapidly growing fringe of US citizens are refusing to pay income tax on the grounds that the IRS has no authority to collect it from them. Until recently the '861' logic was being applied by only a small band of individuals, but recent publicity has attracted a considerably wider range of dissident taxpayers including companies which have stopped withholding payroll tax or reporting employee incomes to the IRS."
Go gold! Go freedom! End serfdom!
Pandagold
(11/28/2000; 9:06:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 42368)
The Euro Experiment
An article in Gold Eagle.com (Followed by my comments)
Has the euro bottomed? Is it likely to rally any time soon? Will it survive in its current form? For those who wish to skip the following 1500 words of opinion and analysis the short answers to these questions are no, yes and no. For the long answers, please read on.
Exchange rates are based on the ever-changing assessments (subjective and objective) of millions of people throughout the world and are, by definition, relative. We plan to add our own opinion to the reams that have already been written on why the euro's exchange value has fallen as far as it has and what the future holds for the euro-dollar exchange rate. We will also look at the euro's fundamental basis, or its reason/justification for being, as a separate issue. A currency either has a valid reason to exist or it doesn't – there is no relativity involved.
The Euro's Relative Value
From the time of its introduction in January 1999, the euro has declined relentlessly versus the dollar. As far as we can tell, euro weakness is due to a combination of the following:
Substantial European direct investment in the US. Simply put, European companies have spent a lot more money buying US companies over the past 2 years than US companies have spent buying European companies.
US corporations seeking to reduce their interest expense by borrowing in euros (euro interest rates have been lower than dollar interest rates). Most of the borrowed euros are exchanged for US dollars, thus putting downward pressure on the euro versus the dollar.
The euro carry trade (speculators take advantage of low euro interest rates and the downward trend in the euro-dollar exchange rate by borrowing euros, selling the euros to obtain dollars, and then investing the dollars in higher-yielding assets or debt).
The perception that the US debt and equity markets would provide better risk-adjusted returns than their European counterparts.
A deliberate policy to devalue the euro, on the part of European governments and the ECB, in an attempt to boost European exports and, therefore, economic growth.
Surging energy prices. Rising energy prices in parallel with an already declining euro exacerbated the existing currency trend due to Europe's heavy reliance on imported oil.
The trend. Once a major trend is in place it is self-reinforcing in that a decline in a currency's exchange rate leads to a further exodus of capital and heightens the feasibility of any financing/speculative strategies that involve the borrowing or short-selling of the currency. The euro will be considered as a cheap source of funds as long as its trend is perceived to be down.
Many of the above factors are, however, either no longer applicable or are dwindling in their influence. Firstly, with large European telecommunications companies having spent huge sums to secure 3G spectrum licenses and now facing enormous financial commitments to build the associated infra-structure, further expansion through the acquisition of US companies seems highly improbable. Also, the ability or willingness of European financial institutions to make further US-based acquisitions is in doubt given the fall in US stock markets and the large (and growing) credit problems on both sides of the Atlantic. The amount of foreign direct investment in the US is therefore likely to fall quite substantially. Secondly, many of the US corporations that have taken advantage of lower euro interest rates are now 'up to their eyeballs' in debt and are in no position to take-on additional obligations. In fact, this contributor to trans-Atlantic capital flows may even reverse direction as payments of interest begin to exceed the value of new loans. Thirdly, the performances of the US equity and corporate-debt markets throughout much of this year must be causing many Europeans to reconsider their US investments. Fourthly, European governments and the ECB have apparently begun to recognise the dark side of a falling exchange rate, namely higher prices for imports, reduced investment, higher interest rates and, eventually, slower economic growth. Continued intervention to support the euro is therefore almost a certainty.
For the reasons cited above, the rate at which capital exits Europe for the US is likely to fall. Since these capital flows have offset the US current account deficit and brought about the euro's downward trend, a significant reduction in these flows should change the trend. Once the trend in the euro-dollar exchange rate is perceived to have reversed then those strategies that are only feasible in a declining euro environment, such as the euro carry trade, will cease.
The Euro's Reason for Being
The euro is a fiat currency and thus suffers from the usual fiat currency ailments such as having no objective limits on its supply. However, the euro also has its own special set of problems, chief among these being the impossibility of finding a monetary policy that matches the needs of all the politically and fiscally disparate nations participating in European Monetary Union (EMU). With differing rates of economic growth, inflation, and unemployment throughout the member nations, as well as diverse taxation and regulatory environments, any 'one size fits all' monetary policy is eventually going to hit an enormous snag.
Other euro-specific problems include the absence of any physical presence (the euro doesn't exist outside the memory-banks of computers) and the general lack of popular support for the currency. The absence of a physical presence will possibly be resolved at the beginning of 2002 when euro notes and coins will become available. We say "possibly" because having a purely-electronic currency helps fulfill the dream of all modern-day governments to be able to monitor every financial transaction. Therefore, if a way can be found to make Europe 'cashless', without precipitating a complete loss of confidence, the euro might never have any physical form.
The lack of popular support for the euro stems from the fact that a fiat currency's value is based purely on confidence and governments, no matter how hard they try, are not able to mandate confidence. In the case of Germany, the largest euro-using nation, confidence in its previous currency (the Dmark) had been built over several decades via the highly disciplined approach of the Bundesbank. It doesn't seem unreasonable that many Germans would be uneasy about replacing a currency with a track record of strength and stability with an unknown quantity.
Aside from the impossibility of constructing a single monetary policy that fits the needs of all member countries, the other euro-specific issues are not insurmountable. The euro's 'confidence problem' would likely be resolved in the long-term if the ECB was able to operate independently (from politics) and to focus its efforts on protecting the currency's purchasing power. The 'lack of confidence' issue could even be addressed in the short-term by substantially increasing the euro's gold backing, thus 'de-politicising' the currency. However, there is no getting around the big issue – monetary union cannot work without fiscal union and fiscal union cannot work without political union. So this begs the question – assuming those who brought the euro into existence were/are not stupid and were thus able to recognise the fundamental flaw in the whole EMU concept, why did they still proceed?
The only answer that makes sense to us is that the ultimate goal was never EMU, it was and is EPU (European Political Union). In other words, the euro's 'raison d'être' is to be the first step in a path that leads to EPU. This is clearly not how the euro has been 'sold' to the people of Europe.
Conclusion
The forces driving capital out of Europe and into the US are likely to abate over the next few months and a rally in the euro-dollar exchange rate should therefore unfold. The longer-term issue, however, is that problems will arise due to differing economic, social and political circumstances across the member countries. For example, what happens when one member-country desperately needs a cut in interest rates due to plummeting economic growth whilst a second is crying out for higher interest rates due to surging consumer prices? Will the government of a low-growth euro-using nation continue to accept the monetary policy dictated by the ECB when such policy removes any hope of that government's re-election?
The euro's fundamental defect ensures that it cannot survive in its current form and suggests, to us, that a broadening in the power wielded by a central governing body will gradually occur. This will be done, of course, in the name of something beneficial such as greater economic growth or lower unemployment.
In summary, the euro is a political concoction designed to further a hidden (from public view) political agenda. There is no legitimate basis for its existence. With regard to its value vis-à-vis the dollar, there is some cause for optimism over the medium-term as the forces that have driven the euro-dollar exchange rate to its current level look set to experience a partial reversal. However, we seriously doubt that the euro has seen its ultimate lows. We have yet to see the exchange rate respond to a 'confidence crisis' brought-on when at least one government attempts to break away from the monetary union in an act of self-preservation.
As we've said several times before, there is no viable alternative to the dollar in the 'fiat currency world', least of all the euro. In order to find a viable alternative One must look outside the fiat currency world.
Steve Saville
Hong Kong
29 November 2000
You are pretty close to the mark, Steve, in your assumptions and reasoning. Because 99% of us belong to the ‘need to make money’ fraternity, we are apt to believe that that is what life is about, for all. That other 1%,(I am being generous here) whom I term the ‘elite’ has, however, individually, more personal wealth than it could ever spend, and controls uncountable wealth greater than any individual nation.
The agenda is centred on power, not money. Money is merely a tool, a measurement, a storage of power 'energy' - a means to an end.
To exercise power there is a need to control. As the preoccupation of those outside the ‘elite circle’ (the other 99% ) is the acquisition of .....money, it is obvious that the control of money should have a number one priority.
Individual national governments exist, to them, as part of the process of administering their power. They (national governments) also permit experimentation in methods – political and economic, to determine the best suited to furthering the aim of the agenda.
There have been many individuals throughout history that have had a similar agenda. The most recent one expressed it in the slogan – "One people, one state, one leader"and "Morgen die Welt" (he would be happy to see how much of his dream has now been realised)
They all failed because they tried to achieve it militarily. If you push, the other pushes back – Newton's laws of motion. Success comes from turning negatives into positives, or, as any martial arts expert will tell you, using the opposing force, or resistance to your advantage.
European unity is a first stage experiment in total control. They (the Elite) know it will take time. But if it can be made to work then they will have a successful blueprint for the rest of the world.
As you mention, if they could get away with having no ‘visible’ money it would be, to them, a great achievement and would advance the agenda considerably. This seems unlikely; it is not easy to change centuries of conditioning. It would be difficult to get one nation to abandon ‘cash’, at this stage, but a group of diverse (most of them recent, onetime, enemies) would be an improbability.
In your final paragraph you state,
"As we've said several times before, there is no viable alternative to the dollar in the 'fiat currency world', least of all the euro. In order to find a viable alternative, one must look outside the fiat currency world."
This, I believe, could only come about if China, at some point in her development, is able to unite the rest, or most of, the Asian block into a purely economic entity with a monetary unit fully backed by gold. If they were able to survive and progress and in the process maintain their culture along with a more even distribution of wealth, then it would provide an antidote to the terminal cancer that is currently pervading Western, so called, democracies. It would also help dampen the current wheeling and dealing activities of ‘those who would be king’. It is a long shot, but, as far as I can see, the only one.
Ray Newton
DaveC
(11/28/2000; 9:02:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 42367)
Gold struggling
what's happening wolavka? Down $1.10.
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 8:58:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 42366)
Gore /Bush
Remember this:
IT'S YOUR MONEY not theIRS.
Journeyman
(11/28/2000; 8:53:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 42365)
Rooting for Gore! @ALL
In the interest of consistency of position, I am now rooting for Al Gore to win the presidency. Yea, it'll make me sick every time I see that arrogant though delusional hypocrite's face on TV over the next four years, but, well it would be good for the country.
I know what you're thinking: "Sheesh Journeyman, what the h*** have you been smoking -- or snorting? Have you been partying with Clinton or "W"? Or has the strain of all this just been too much for you?"
Notice I said "good for the COUNTRY." It would most definitely NOT be good for the government. -- Unfortunately, in general (and in the long-run) what's good for the country is bad for "the government." And vice-versa.
Nearly everyone, seeing that arrogant though delusional hypocrite's face on TV for the next four years, will be at least subliminally reminded that he is at some level a power hungry manipulator who will go to any lengths to "win" an election. This will ham-string the Feds somewhat. If we're lucky, they'll get terminal gridlock. Almost the only "just plain folks" to be hurt by this would be the ones who directly benefit from the businesses employing some of those 22,000 lobbists Nader tipped us off to.
The longer it takes the Sore-Loserman organization in the courts, the better, because more and more people will reach this conclusion and be thusly reminded. Already (according to the latest polls) his support for the latest legal maneuvering has dropped to 32%.
The downside is that in contrast, "W" will be the unwarranted beneficiary of goodwill for being unfairly treated should he prevail.
Oh well, whether it's Arrogant Al or that somewhat charming tho dyslexic conman, we WON'T get relief from intrusive government, and most likely we won't like the "economy." And which ever one it is, it may be comforting to remember that "the president has no more to do with what happens than Ronald McDonald has to do with what's on your Big Mac."
Regards,
Journeyman
~"The strong dollar is a sign the US is following the correct monetary and fiscal policy vis-a-vis foreign countries." -Harvey Hirschhorn, Liberty Funds, CNBC, Nov. 28, 2000, ~10:26AM
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 8:51:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42364)
floor and pit clown
Now come on you think we're stupid enough to fall for the retest breakout trend line.
You guys need to get a life, go home and let mama beat you up, surprised she hasn't cause you diminished her only store of value.
Econoclast
(11/28/2000; 8:38:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 42363)
P.S....
Why is it that one has to scour the internet for alternative news sources to get both sides of this story?
Ideas are put into our heads by a propaganda machine (media) that is 85% registered Democrat.
wolavka
(11/28/2000; 8:31:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42362)
dec gold buy stops
short pigs have stops over 272, then 277. run it and take them out.
Econoclast
(11/28/2000; 8:28:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 42361)
Where are the great minds?
Over the last few weeks, this GREAT gold/economics forum has transformed into a political chat room. Where is Trail Guide, Another, Aristotle? Even Oro switched to politics before he disappeared.
There is much excitement in the PM world at this time; silver coinage, even a little gold spike. But if politics is the topic, I will contribute my 2cents worth:
First let me state that I am neither Republican or Democrat. I am not even Libertarian. I am an Individual who holds the rights of the individual sacred next to the morality put forth by a loving God-the Supreme Individual.
There are no votes that have not been counted. Those "10,000" votes have been counted twice by machine.
The counting done in Florida this election has been more thorough than any election in history.
Why is it that every recount (done by Democratic counters) turns up more votes for only one candidate? Statistical probability says that randomness would turn up votes for each candidate.
If the Democrats say that not enough counting has been done, what does that say about the integrity of every past election result? Have candidates been repeatedly been put into office based on faulty totals in the past?
In spite of the fact that the Democrats and their principled sounding propaganda (that IS what it IS) is making me sick to my stomach, I refuse to fight for somebody named Bush. Tweedledee and Tweedledum have the same masters and don't forget that. This is only an ego contest.
Months ago, I said to my wife (who thinks I'm a conspiracy nut), "I will not believe that Clinton is going to leave until he is actually gone." Well, I'm still waiting...
Journeyman
(11/28/2000; 8:02:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 42360)
Silver & conventional film @ALL Silver gurus
We've had this discussion before, but now there may be new info.
CNBC reports that film sales are down 1.?%, and suggests this is digital "film" cutting into conventional film sales.
As film is a very large component of silver use, how will this effect the price of "poor-man's gold."
Regards, j.
Pandagold
(11/28/2000; 7:58:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 42359)
Wolawka and 'The Gun'
Never heard of it, but if there is such a thing, you can rest assured Mossad will have it. Come to think of it, the way Arafat totters around, with eyes glazed.................
DaveC
(11/28/2000; 7:33:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 42358)
PH in LA
"You seem...to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all Constitutional questions: a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one, which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same
passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. ...And their power (is) the more dangerous, as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The
Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots."
--Thomas Jefferson
The laws of the state of FLA give KHarris the right to do what she has done. The people of FLA voted her in and the elected the legislature that passed the laws.
To tie up this election in the courts is a disservice to the US and a misuse of the judicial branch.
If you think this White House was acting in good faith by having 75 lawyers "at the ready" then you have not been paying attention for the last 8 years.
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 06:41:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 42357)
Gold on the rise again?
What's this? Au up $0.90 out of the gate to $270.70. Could it be picking up from where it left off yesterday? Hmmmmm.... Pt is up $3.00 at $604 and Pd is up $7.00 at 794 - soon to bounce over $800 again. S&P Futures down -7.40, currencies are rising against the US Dollar, but petroleum is down slightly across the board. Could get interesting and entertaining today. Off to slaughter some ducks, see ya all later.
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 06:35:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 42356)
RE: DaveC
I'm just a bit nostalgic for the old days ;-)
DaveC
(11/28/00; 06:32:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 42355)
Black Blade, LeSin
BB: You hit another one out of the park. Pistols at 20 paces. If they miss make it 10.
"S"- "Hillary will win 2004 by the biggest landslide in USA history."
Let's hope for everyone's sake your wrong.
lamprey_65
(11/28/00; 06:17:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42354)
Harmony and Durban
http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1601028319&tid=drooy&sid=1601028319&mid=391
Time to end this childishness and merge.
I'm long both.
L.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 06:03:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 42353)
dec gold
sitting at top of range now tonite, 271
wolavka
(11/28/00; 05:59:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 42352)
5 gold rings
on the toes, in the nose, feet, and every where else.
walk down the street and you'll see the gold.
liquid gold tattoos, need a trend carry it with you.
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 05:51:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 42351)
"Suspension of Iraqi oil exports possible"
From the BBC
There are reports that Iraq may be about to suspend oil exports because of a dispute with the United Nations about revenue from sales. An oil industry newsletter -- the Middle East Economic Survey or MEES -- said Baghdad is expected to disrupt exports over demands for an independent account outside UN control. A report by MEES said Iraq had enough in its UN-controlled account -- where all official oil revenues go -- to finance a full year of food imports without exporting any more oil. The International Energy Agency in Paris said any suspension of Iraqi oil exports -- depriving world markets of more than two million barrels a day – would be a cause for concern. Although the Saudis have promised to make up most of the shortfall, it could take them three months to boost output.'
Black Blade: This could be interesting. Saddam can get back at the "Great Satan" by cutting off oil and throwing the world's economies into turmoil. He just has to starve his people to do it.
lamprey_65
(11/28/00; 05:47:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 42350)
Correction(?)
In my post last night, I stated the U.S. once had a silver hoard of 10 billion ounces...I was going from what I considered a clear memory - I now see that Ted Butler over at Kitco states 3 billion ounces. Well, must admit not sure which figure is accurate, but let's just say that within a few weeks -- IT'S GONE!
wolavka
(11/28/00; 04:38:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42349)
Inside Mossad
anyone know about the laser pistol that can fry a brain up to 200 yards and leave individual a walking zombie???????
wolavka
(11/28/00; 04:20:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 42348)
Hi Hat
U.S. and world are filled with spineless jelly fish. No guts, The children and grandchildren will look upon these wormless blobs which refuse to stand for anything, sad sick.
Guy gets nailed on a cross and the worms look on, boy sure glad that's not me.
Hi-Hat
(11/28/00; 04:04:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 42347)
wolavka
I hate the whole psychology of the scheme.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 03:58:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 42346)
criminal politics at its best
Inside the IRS, talked to guy who says offer and compromises are 9 months to a year behind.
Dollar going no place but down from here.
These guys really know what they're doing.
wolavka
(11/28/00; 03:37:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 42345)
You're guilty
You been smoking gold???????????????
Appears the pigs in power want to close all tax avoidance avenues.
Avoidance, evasion it's all the same to them.
Now the european dogs!!!
Bottom line, appears this is the reason they continue to force gold out of small hands.
Screw them, gold is freedom end of story!
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 03:07:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42344)
Gold Climbs on European Demand as Euro Rises Against Dollar
By Jon Hurdle
London, Nov. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Gold rose almost 2 percent as the euro surged against the dollar amid speculation that the European Central Bank was buying the single currency on the foreign exchange market. A decline in the value of the dollar makes it cheaper for holders of other currencies to buy gold, which is denominated in dollars. Europe accounts for about 10 percent of world gold demand, said the World Gold Council, a trade association. ``Gold is starting to rise and you would expect that to come from dollar weakness,'' said John Meyer, a metals and mining analyst at SG Securities. Gold for immediate delivery rose as much as $4.05 an ounce, or 1.5 percent, to $270 an ounce, its highest since Nov. 17. The outlook for gold and other metals is positive because of prospects for robust growth of the world economy, said Meyer. ``Consumption of metals should continue at a reasonably high rate,'' he said. ``U.S. fund managers have forecast a greater slowdown in the global economy than we think is warranted.'' The euro rose more than 1 percent, its biggest gain for two weeks, amid intervention speculation. The European Central Bank declined to comment, contrasting with its last four bouts of intervention, when it confirmed it had bought euros. The pound also rose against the dollar, by as much as 1.4 percent.
LeSin
(11/28/00; 03:03:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 42343)
Gore's Fight is Not Against Bush - Rather Against Hillery Clinton in 2004
Gore v Clintons v Bush = USA Citizens will be the Losers
Al Gore is fighting for his political life not for the Presidency of 2000. If Gore fails (appears he has and will) Al is OUT for EVER. If Gore wins this one he has a chance at 2004 as well. Should he lose now It will be Hillary Clinton in 2004! BYE BYE AL, Bow to your audience and concede with a little dignaty. Al you can't fight the Clintons and Bush. I pity any President that takes office in 2000. Hillary will win 2004 by the biggest landslide in USA history. "S"
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 02:53:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 42342)
Durban Deep also bids for gold operations
Source: Business Day (South Africa)
WHEN details of disposal talks are finally announced, mining company Harmony may find it is not the only company in pursuit of the world's top gold producer AngloGold's lucrative assets. AngloGold and Harmony issued cautionary notices yesterday confirming they were in talks. But AngloGold said it was talking to "a number of parties" regarding their offers to purchase Elandsrand and Deelkraal.
Harmony's smaller rival, Durban Roodepoort Deep, confirmed yesterday that it, too, had submitted a bid for Elandsrand and Deelkraal. The bid deadline is Thursday. Durban Deep chairman Mark Wellesley-Wood said the group's bid was more than R1bn and included a bid for AngloGold's Savuka mine.
Though this is unconfirmed, Harmony has reportedly put in an offer of R900m. Analysts expected about R500m to R600m. Questioned on how Durban Deep, which had a market capitalisation of R600m, would finance an acquisition, Wellesley-Wood said the company was a hedger of gold and would use the "forward gold curve" to finance a deal. He said the synergies between Durban Deep's operations and that of AngloGold were not to be underestimated. Durban Deep's Doornfontein and Blyvoor sections are contiguous to Savuka, formerly known as the Western Deep Levels west mine. Wellesley-Wood said the Durban Deep Blyvoor 2000 project was gaining momentum and the company would be able to use manpower and infrastructure to cut costs.
AngloGold and Harmony also said they were in talks about some of AngloGold's Free State assets.
While a deal on Elandsrand and Deelkraal, with either Durban Deep or Harmony, may not be far off indications are it could be done by year-end a sale by AngloGold of some of the Free State assets may be further off. Analysts have said a restructuring of the Free State mines would most probably not go ahead without a black empowerment partner. Harmony CEO Bernard Swanepoel is on record as saying that it is no longer possible to think about acquisitions without incorporating a black partner. Sources say a consortium and not a single partner would be involved. The share prices of the three companies failed to gain on news of the cautionary notice, with Harmony losing 20c to end at R29 a share, AngloGold down 200c to R196 and Durban Deep down 10c to end at 440c a share.
Black Blade: Looks like consolidation is the name of the game. Harmony (HGMCY) and Durban (DROOY) have been at each others throats for some time. Things really heated up when HGMCY bought Randfontein out from under DROOY. DROOY management came under the spotlight when one of the Kebble clan used unauthorized funds from the company in an attempt to thwart HGMCY's plans. This is shaping up to be quite a soap opera. Where DROOY gets the funds for this acquisition is unclear, but the likely possibility of forward sales for financing is somewhat disturbing. This begs the question, is DROOY desperate, in financial trouble and on the ropes? Do they need these operations in order to survive? This could get interesting. Meanwhile, look for a lot of consolidation and mergers in the gold industry over the coming months.
LeSin
(11/28/00; 02:16:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 42341)
Gold Council Urges Reduction of US$ Reserves
http://asia.biz.yahoo.com/news/asian_markets/afp/article.html?s=asiafinance/news/001128/asian_markets/afp/Gold_council_urges_countries_to_reduce_over-reliance_on_US_dollar.html
http://asia.biz.yahoo.com/news/asian_markets/afp/article.html?s=asiafinance/news/001128/asian_markets/afp/Gold_council_urges_countries_to_reduce_over-reliance_on_US_dollar.html
Tuesday, November 28 4:10 PM SGT
Gold council urges countries to reduce over-reliance on US dollar
KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 28 (AFP) -
Countries should make gold a key reserve asset to reduce risks in a "one-currency" world monetary system dominated by the US dollar, a World Gold Council senior official said Tuesday.
Robert Weinberg, the council's head of institutional investment, said the dollar's dominance had reached far beyond its traditional role in money, capital markets and foreign exchange reserves.
"It extends also to the worldwide influence of the Federal Reserve in shaping the monetary conditions of the global economy," Weinberg told a news briefing.
Countries linked to the dollar were forced to follow US monetary policies and even Japan and the Euro area cannot escape, he said.
"In a sense it could be viewed as recolonisation. An increasing number of countries seem to be yielding voluntarily that independence that many fought for so long and hard ... the world depends critically on the Fed and on (its chairman Alan) Greenspan."
Currently, he said, about 50 percent of global equities are dollar-denominated, as are 47 percent of global bonds, 35 percent of foreign bank loans, 87 percent of forex transactions and 48 percent of international trade payments.
Weinberg warned of the dollar's vulnerability in the long-term, citing the US ballooning current account deficit and its massive accumulation of external liabilities.
He said countries should diversify into gold.
"The overall risk of a portfolio shrinks when you add gold and the portfolio becomes much more robust... it becomes better able to cope with shocks to the system," he said.
Governments, central banks and other official institutions currently hold 32,000 tonnes of gold, or a quarter of world stock, he added.
Weinberg said the world gold price, currently hovering between 260 and 270 dollars an ounce, is more likely to rise than to fall.
Some 30 percent of world gold was being produced at a loss. And with little incentives to open new mines, output was unlikely to increase for the next few years.
A pact in September 1999 by leading central banks -- to contain sales of gold in their reserves to not more than 2,000 tonnes over the next five years -- had also capped fears of a "tidal wave" of gold sales, he said.
But Weinberg criticised the ongoing gold auction by the Bank of England. By advertising the sales ahead of time, this led investors to sell short so they could buy at cheaper price at the auction, he said.
"They went about it in a very bad way. There are better ways of doing it, although we didn't think they should have done it at all," he added.
Peter Asher
(11/28/00; 01:45:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 42340)
Even the mainstream press is starting to get it right
Chicago Tribune
November 28, 2000
MR. GORE, END IT NOW
November 27, 2000
There is a line, not all that fine, between perseverance and
stubbornness. Al Gore is about to trip over that line and
collapse with a thud. His determination to keep fighting,
even after Sunday night's formal declaration that George W.
Bush won the presidential race in Florida, presents the
increasingly unappealing portrait of a man who wants to be
a winner at any cost.
Florida has certified that Bush carried the state. Election
officials followed the procedures and timetable dictated by
the Florida Supreme Court. Florida has delivered a final
count more closely scrutinized than that of any other
state--ever.
Yet Gore won't accept that judgment. His lawyers now will
file official contests, or challenges, of the election results.
Gore is certainly entitled to do so. But as Gore knows, this
is more serious business than his efforts since Election Day
to reverse Bush's lead. This is a world of witness testimony
and hard evidence. Gore also knows that the certification of
Bush as the winner diminishes Gore's chance of prevailing.
Courts are reluctant to overturn certified election results.
By dragging on, Gore guarantees the country more
uncertainty--and more gamesmanship. Democrats will
continue trying to manufacture votes; Republicans in
Congress and the Florida Legislature will continue plotting
ways to deprive Gore of any Florida electors.
Perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court will convince Gore that
it's over. The only real issue facing the court right now is
whether Bush won by the 930-vote margin he had after the
statewide recount, or the 537 votes by which he was
declared the winner Sunday night. The high court will hear
arguments Friday on whether the statewide recount should
have been the official Florida outcome.
Gore's efforts thus far have been neither effective nor
persuasive. He lost the vote election night, and he lost the
subsequent machine recount mandated by Florida law when
a margin is so tight. When he couldn't win with votes, he
tried to win by invoking "the will of the people" and
requesting hand recounts in friendly counties.
Will-of-the-people turns out to be code for embracing
technicalities when they serve his needs (as with his
success in getting Broward County to use a liberal rule for
counting indentations as votes), but ridiculing technicalities
when they do not (as with his successful challenge to a
Florida law that requires hand recounts to be completed
within seven days of an election).
And yet these legal maneuvers didn't produce the votes he
expected. Rather than accept the failure of his strategy, he is
launching, yes, more legal maneuvers.
This mindset is destroying the goodwill Gore initially
deserved. He could have graciously called from the start
for a second statewide recount by uniform means--either by
hand or by machine--but instead aimed only for hand
recounts in counties controlled by Democrats. He could
have agreed that counties should use their pre-existing rules
to determine how questionable ballots should be counted,
but instead pushed for new rules, drawn on the fly, on how
to evaluate indented chads in ways that would be favorable
to him. He could have publicly demanded that legitimate
military ballots lacking postmarks be counted, but instead
cynically dispatched his running mate to merely pay lip
service to that idea. In other words, if it's right but could
hurt you, don't do it.
Gore's grasping for a victory that would be tainted and
deeply divisive. It's time for him to thank those who
worked so hard for his candidacy, then declare this election over
ThaiGold
(11/28/00; 01:44:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 42339)
Silver Surprise
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=HL&d=1d
Hecla Mining shares were up 30 percent on Monday.
This company mines silver *and* gold.
Most gold shares were up as well, but the percentages
were less than 10 or so.
I believe silver will rise faster than gold.
Black Blade
(11/28/00; 01:11:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42338)
Solution to the Election Fiasco
The best way to settle this election fiasco is to let these two babbling idiots do exactly as Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton did. A good old-fashioned duel with Dick and Joe as their seconds. A true fight to the finish. It could be on pay-per-view and use the proceeds to pay towards the taxpayers losses over the last few weeks of this dispute.
DaveC
(11/28/00; 01:03:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 42337)
PH in LA, Oh, how soon we forget
Americans cannot remember what they had for lunch yesterday much less what happenned 6-8 years ago.
We are ending "The Era of the Big Lie" as Slick Willie might finally have to leave DC.
In the early days of the Clinton Era, our boy prez was struggling, mostly with foreign policy. You remember Haiti and Somalia, don't you? Army Rangers dragged through the streets DEAD because our boy and his people did not know how to "govern."
The media spun it this way: "He is LEARNING how to be President." Anyone remember that famous line?
Don't think GW will have the same problems. He will surround himself with much wiser and experienced people. Clinton put gender, color and all the PC-correct requirements ahead of experience and wisdom.
Clinton was not interested in being President only looking Presidential. He is as phony as breasts in LA.
Remember "middle-class tax cuts", "our problems are all behind us"? These were just some of the lies from 1992.
Simply Me
(11/28/00; 00:45:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 42336)
Gored to Death!
Forget Floriduh! Why should 3 primarily Democratic counties be the one's to pick the US Pres. The only fair thing to do is recount the WHOLE COUNTRY...Military absentee ballots and all. Surprise, surprise....George W. wins again!
Better yet, let's petition the Supreme Court to try something new. We'll give Gore all the Democratic counties he won...and Bush all the Republican counties he won. Then we'll see if Gore can cover all the welfare and social security checks he'll be paying without coming to "W" for the income tax money he'll be getting from the WORKING portion of the country.
I still want to know what Klinton/Gore are hiding. What's at stake here is more than just the Oval Office. What's SO BIG that Algore would commit political suicide as the "Cry Baby" candidate when he COULD make a successful run in 2004 without the Klinton stink all over him? After all, if the country is slipping into recession, in 4 years he could run on "Bring Back the Good Ol' Days" or a Hooveresque "Chicken in Every Pot" campaign and win by a landslide.
So again I ask...what's REALLY at stake in this election?
I can only hope it has something to do with the recent rise in the POG.
We'd better be watching in other directions than this "circus" election battle. This diversion is drawing the popular attention away from the real action.
Simply
justamereBear
(11/28/00; 00:31:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 42335)
USA gold 42307 & ALL
There is considerable evidence that Franklin was very influenced by the Republic of Venice model, and perhaps even contributed to some writings on the subject. He apparently wanted even those things that eventually caused the downfall of the Repubic of Venice after 500 years, to be changed so as to give the US model more longevity.
The biggest change made was to replace the election for life of the doge in Venice, to 4 year terms, with a maximum of 2 terms, for the same position, the US president. They apparently felt shorter terms would do away with nepotism, cronyism, and other like problems that plagued, particularly the later years of the Venitian Republic. The Electoral college was simplified, but remains in the US system. The Doge ruled supreme, but was subject to many of the laws, given some special circumstances, which were remarkably similiar to the impeachment process in the US. More often the Doge was liable for what could be some pretty stiff fines, voted by the parliament. But he did have very similiar duties and responsablities.
The common citizens elected an elector, who in turn elected a Doge. Since the election of a Doge was an infrequent thing, as he was elected for life, there was also an elected parliament. A house of "sober reflection," to keep a balance on the parliament was also in place, but if the Doge refused to sign any bill, it went back, not forward, as enacted legislation. ie a president, congress and senate.
It amazes me how little Americans of my aquaintance know of this aspect of their history.
j'Bear
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