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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/28/1999
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

View Yesterday's Discussion.

beesting (06/28/99; 22:56:00MDT - Msg ID:8177)
From India via Kitco--Finance Ministry keen on Gold monetisation
http://www.indian.express.com/fe/daily/19990119/01955215p.html
This is not a current news story;Mumbai,India: The finance ministry is keen on monetisation of at least 12000 tonne of idle Gold reserves through Gold deposit schemes.
India accounts for about 8% of world Gold reserves.
In the first quarter of 1999 about 450 tonne of Gold has come into the country.
Bankers are, however sceptical about an early launch of Gold money, because proper infrastructure to process Gold into coins does not yet exist.

Thanks to MOZ in Australia, we know the Perth Mint would be happy to assist in production of(real money) Gold money for their close friends in India.
In case you didn't read all of Mr.Milling-Stanley's speech(URL posted today) he stated that, India and China are the main countries targeted for their(World Gold Council)Gold marketing strategy.

I wonder if an American could enjoy retirement in India??.....beesting

SteveH (06/28/99; 21:54:56MDT - Msg ID:8176)
Aug. gold now...
$261.80.

I believe the grassroot knowledge of gold market manipulation has be established and set in motion. Now it is only a matter of time before two people tell two people who tell two people who tell two people who tell the world.






SteveH (06/28/99; 21:48:10MDT - Msg ID:8175)
OI/link
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/goldfinger062999.html
Interesting link.

OI (open interest) at 213,000 Friday. Recent high?

Jason Hommel (6/28/99; 21:43:38MDT - Msg ID:8174)
Prior to rapture...
I know this is not the forum for religious debate/discussions, but I wanted to adress the comment made by THX-1138 regarding nothing happening before the rapture. I would be happy to take this to personal email at group@spintheweb.com

[1Thess 4:16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

[John 14:12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Perhaps we will see dead people being brought back to life in the Churches in addition to faith healings? That's what the scriptures seem to say. Jesus said his followers would do greater works than his, and Jesus raised the dead!

koan (6/28/99; 21:41:47MDT - Msg ID:8173)
gold and silver feelings
You could feel it today - gold just inched up a bit begrudgingly, while silver was chomping on the bit. The warehouse stocks are making everyone nervous. I know I am paying the ask for my last few silver stock options. It is hard for either gold or silver to roar because the technical damage is so severe, evertime one or the other starts to move, wham. So the only thing that will work is pure hard core speculation backed by fundamentals which is what you have right now. I was amused that one of the analysts I follow indicated that a rep of the silver USERS associtation said there were plenty of above ground supplies. Who do you think wants silver to stay down - the silver users. I am not much into conspiries, but I have to say if I was, silver would be at the top of my list. Big users like Kodak et al have been having a free ride for a long time - low prices, they don't have to stock it, just buy it off the shelf at about half or less than what it is truly worth. These comex stats may not be real, but they are sure acting real. I just do not see the warehouse stocks starting to increase significantly- how would they do that? As I have said, pretty exciting. PS I saw on Kitco that one person reported the comex stocks unchanged, but the eligible to registered were something like 166,000, can't remembeer the exact number,but it was a positive number.

SteveH (6/28/99; 21:36:54MDT - Msg ID:8172)
various
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_99/vronsky062899.html
See above link for COT and OI and comments. Good stuff.

See below for GATA comments.

10p EDT Monday, June 28, 1999

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Here's a great essay posted today at
www.lemetropolecafe.com by a great supporter of GATA
who writes as Professor Von Braun of the Rocket School
of Economics. It is in part a reply to the recent essay
by Martin Armstrong of Princeton Economics
International.

Please post as seems useful.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

The Gold Market Mystery: Fact or Fiction?

By Professor von Braun

The Rocket School of Economics

June 26, 1999


Much has been written in recent times about the gold
market and why the price keeps falling and falling and
falling. Some of the comments have been quite accurate
while others (especially those coming from sources who
should really know better) have been bizarre to say the
least.

"What's going on with the gold price?" is the most
often asked question amongst gold bugs, gold mining
companies, shareholders of these companies, elected
representatives and officials of governments where
gold plays an important role in their respective
communities, gold coin dealers and their customers.
In fact many industry players have been scratching
their heads for some time now and quite rightly,
continue to do so. The only segment that remains smug
and enjoys being bearish is the bullion dealers
themselves, almost to the point that they know
something the rest of us don't, but they are not about
to tell.

The history of gold as a currency and as a component of
Central Bank reserves is well documented and does
not need to be revisited as far as this article is
concerned. However, certain historic occurrences are
perhaps relevant to what is going on at present and we
will make mention of them as we progress through some
facts, keeping in mind that there really are very few
facts when it comes to this market that are actually
verifiable and transparent. Although the transparency,
as in "give me the gold" is obvious.

Let's look at some of these facts. It is true that gold
peaked in February 1996 at $417 per ounce and has been
in a decline ever since. This falling price has defied
the supply and demand equation for nearly four years
if we are to believe the figures put out by both the
World Gold Council (WGC) and Gold Fields Mineral
Services (GFMS) group reports. For several years (at
least since 1994) we have had a shortfall in excess of
a 1,000-tonnes-per-annum and currently running at 1,600
tonnes, with demand at 4,000 tonnes and supply at 2,400
tonnes per annum. Some source of supply is making up
this shortfall if it actually exists.

The common belief is that unreported central bank
sales are what's behind this mysterious source of
supply that neither the WGC or GFMS can account for.
The reality may be that gold leased from the CBs,
(terminology is a bit tricky here, borrowed, leased, or
loaned seems to apply, with leased being favored) and
sold into the market probably accounts for this
shortfall. Simply put it seems that gold can be leased
(borrowed) from CBs and actually sold into the market
with a promise to pay it back being sufficient to OK
the transaction. Any entity (read member of the LBMA
and their favored clients) that has been involved in
this type of transaction since early 1996 has,
financially, done extremely well, this too is a fact.
There are estimates out there in the murky gold
universe that suggest that at least 4,000 tonnes and
perhaps 12,000 tonnes of gold may have entered the
market this way.

CB gold that is not sold but is leased or loaned
remains on their books as still being part of their
reserves. This is important to remember as it makes it
difficult for independent analysts to pinpoint where
gold is coming from. The transparency issue is in a
sense, a non event here as most CBs that have gold
reserves lend (lease) these reserves out to cover the
cost of holding the yellow metal, and yet don't report
it. Alan Greenspan's comment to Congress last year that
central banks stand ready to mobilize their gold
reserves should the gold price rise is one of the more
mysterious elements in what is a complex situation.

Another element in this same complex situation is the
reported daily turnover on the London Bullion and
Metals Association (LBMA) daily market, which is
currently, according to the figures released by them
(sorry, guys, but this is questionable), 1,000 tonnes
per day. How much of this is physical and how much is
"paper" gold we don't know. What that tells you is that
while "official" (per WGC and GFMS numbers) demand
figures put worldwide demand for physical metal at
4,000 tonnes per annum, the LBMA trades (?) this amount
every four days. Keep in mind that these figures don't
include what is traded by LBMA members outside of the
UK. How much this is, is anybody's guess. Nor does this
include OTC trading in New York, Sydney, Hong Kong, or
Dubai.

Another interesting number (as there are no known
mining company records going back 10,000 years) bandied
about is the estimate of above-ground gold reserves,
which puts the total gold estimated to actually exist
at between 120,000 and 130,000 tonnes. CBs are believed
to hold about 30,000 tonnes of this total as reserves
with the United States and the new European Central
Bank accounting for 20,000 tonnes. The rest is
somewhere on the planet, residing as jewelry,
artifacts, icons, gold coins, bullion held privately,
industrial usage, and scrap being recycled. The amount
held privately and available to trade is questionable.
Obviously it seems some is traded. Once again the LBMA
figures suggest that they trade 250,000 tonnes per
annum, the entire above-ground estimate twice a year.

Now let's look at Mr. Greenspan's remarks that CBs
stand ready to mobilize their gold reserves. I have a
mental picture of a trumpet being blown and several
thousands of gold bars appearing and reporting for
duty, mobilized, ready to deal with the invasion of --
something, But obviously that's not it. What is a known
fact is that if you own a large percentage of the
reserves of any commodity, you can affect the price,
(deBeers and diamonds come quickly to mind), which is
of course a potential but not so clear case of price
manipulation, should that occur. Even more so when
these are "reserves" that are being mobilized -- and I
don't mean the National Guard here, but reserves which
are supposed to be held to support the currency. So
which CBs' gold reserves was AG referring to when he
made that statement?

And how much gold do the CBs actually have? This is a
key question -- actually one of several key questions.

Then there is the "problem" of the gold price itself
and what it means from a sentiment point of view in
terms of how currencies are perceived. Any serious
doubts an individual may have about a currency's
strength or weakness can be offset by purchasing gold
bullion; this is a fact. Keep in mind that the United
States has made gold ownership illegal before,
confiscating gold from its citizens back in the 1930s.
This too is a fact; it did happen. I believe that the
statute is still on the books to this day.

Any experienced public relations person would tell you,
upon reviewing the bad press that gold has received
since early 1996, that there is an attempt to badmouth
the precious metal markets -- no proof but many smoking
guns by way of announcements that have always been
timed to depress the price.

The numbers given out on the gold market simply do not
stack up when it comes to what's available in the
public arena in terms of gold being traded, supply and
demand, CB reserves, and the big unknown -- gold that
has been "leased" and sold into the market, which, by
the way, has to be repurchased at some stage and
delivered back to its rightful owner. Very important
point. If this type of transaction has taken place,
somebody either has, or will have, a problem. Even more
so if the WGC and the GFMS figures are correct.

Much ado has been made of the apparent potential for A)
Swiss CB sales, and B) IMF sales, but there is a
problem with both these "potential" transactions, since
they require approvals that are not yet in place. The
spinmeisters (and there are spinmeisters) seem to have
the idea that any holder of gold is a potential seller,
and this of course is true, just as any voter in any
U.S. election could vote for either party. At some
stage anything may or may not be for sale. Even after
we have had repeated statements that certain gold
reserves are not for sale, the spin continues that it
is. That's the spin, as opposed to the reality, which,
it appears, doesn't count.

Then we have the Bank of England deciding to sell some
of its gold and announcing it for all the world to hear
prior to the event. This sounded like verification of
Forrest Gump's great line, "Stupid is as stupid does."
After badmouthing gold for several years, informing the
world of other potential large sales by anybody and
everybody, only to be wrong, totally wrong (these sales
simply did not materialize), they come along and for a
piddling 25-tonnes wipe 10 percent off the gold price,
and then say they are surprised by the fall in price.

Nobody else was. I don't think they where either.

So what really gives here?

Do we have a gold market that is dying, disappearing,
acting out its final scene, while becoming redundant?
Or are we watching a replay of a previously failed
attempt at suppressing the gold price?

An attempt to go off a gold standard, even though going
off a gold standard is not an option while you hold
gold as a reserve component, is something a certain
gentleman who runs a very good forecasting service
based in Princeton fails to understand.

Perhaps instead we have a market that is, as a result
of the activities of its leading participants (the
major bullion banks) becoming "distressed." Distressed
to the point that they (the leading participants) will
go to any lengths to try to keep the price from rising
while they rush to cover their obligations --
obligations that see them delivering physical metal
back to the parties they have leased/borrowed/conned
it from and sold into the market?

Could the statement made by Greenspan in June last year
refer to this possibility? After all, who could upset
the gold market (and create volatility) other than the
bullion dealers themselves? Surely not the mining
companies! Perhaps certain CBs have something to answer
to in this regard.

One thing of interest, so far not commented on, is the
mining companies themselves, who have been painted as
the bad guys by the bullion banks and yet have failed
miserably to come to their own defense. Even as
recently as last week the bullion banks were blaming
forward selling by mining companies as the reason
behind the drop in price. But did we hear any
repudiations from this sector? "Well, let's not fart in
church here. After all, who might hear us?"

This, coupled with words of wisdom from the apparently
wise and the not so wise, those who should know better
and those who fit the "blowing smoke up you know where"
category, has certainly aided the very successful PR
campaign designed to lower the gold price, as evidenced
by where it is at today.

The shortage of reliable facts in terms of numbers that
can be relied upon doesn't help either.

One interesting fact that can be relied upon is that
between 1965 and 1971 the Bank of England reduced its
gold holdings from 2,012 tonnes to 690 tonnes, more
than two-thirds of its gold reserves, at a market
bottom (US$35 per ounce, prior to a 10-year move to
US$850) and it certainly seems determined to achieve
this result again.

Trying to convince the gullible public that gold is
worthless is a stunt that has been pulled many times
before over many years, always by the same group of
people, always for the same reasons. They have never
succeeded yet and it is unlikely that this time will be
any different.

----------------------

Professor von Braun can be contacted via email at
profvonb@aol.com.

THX-1138 (6/28/99; 21:16:57MDT - Msg ID:8171)
Jason Hommel
Curious you post something about gold dust on peoples hands.

Some of the people in my church have actually witnessed that. I haven't yet, but hope to someday. We have a revival going on at my church.

Another thing is that my pastor during one sermon stated that there is no prophesy left to be completed before the rapture of God's church takes place. There is however prophesies that have yet to take place before Armagedon.

In the short term I think gold will help to protect people before the rapture but after it takes place. Well,....all I can say is God help them for they will live in hard times.

THX-1138

SteveH (6/28/99; 21:11:56MDT - Msg ID:8170)
Jason, liked your two cents
Good post.

THX-1138 (6/28/99; 20:37:39MDT - Msg ID:8169)
Facts about US Constitution and 2nd Amendment
http://www.constitution.org/cons/quotes01.htm
Ever since Clinton and his cronies have been violating the Laws of the U.S., I have started reading and becoming interested in the Constitution and Federalist Papers and the original intent of the Founding Fathers. Anyway, the above link is from a site that tries to provide info on the real meanings regarding aspects of the Constitution. Go back to the main page at www.constitution.org to start reading different articles.
The above link provides great quotes regarding the 2nd Amandment. I like the following one best.

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional
privilege."

--Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878


Throw that in Clinton's face. It's from his own home State.

THX-1138

Jason Hommel (6/28/99; 19:48:45MDT - Msg ID:8168)
The Manipulation of The World Gold Market & A Biblical Perspective
http://www.jasonhommel.com/
Basic facts of the gold market prove that there is collusion and manipulation to keep the price of gold artifically low. These world events shed some light on specific Bible prophesies regarding gold that seem on the surface to be conflicting and contradictory. But the short selling of gold by gold hoarders and world governments fulfills Bible prophesies, as I will show. Although, at this point, it is difficult to prove massive short selling (the much bandied about 14,000 tonnes figure) we can prove market manipulation that supports such allegations. First, the facts of world events.

There are about 125,000 tonnes of gold in the world; ($1000 Billion @ $250/oz). The bank of England has 715 tonnes, or $5.9 billion @ $257/oz. Every day, 2300 tonnes of gold ($25 Billion) @ $340/oz. are sold back and forth on the world market--the dollar/oz being higher because of futures contracts. Every year, 2500 tonnes of new gold comes out of the ground and are sold into the world market. The bank of England is selling 415 tonnes over the course of the next year. This sale of 415 tonnes of gold, or, rather, the announcement of it, has been the primary cause, as reported by the popular press, of bringing the price of gold down from $288-290 an ounce to $260 an ounce over the last month. I say 'primary cause' because as reports come in of the "stalled" IMF and Swiss sales, the price has inched slightly higher. Does this make sense?

Should .3% of someting (England's 400/The World's 125,000) affect that something by 10%? Imagine if the Fed increased the money supply by .3%, and inflation raced along at 10% in a month! Instead, in the real world, the Fed increases the money supply by 10% a year, and inflation is 2%!! Going by how dollar inflation works, the .3% of "new gold" from England should affect the gold market by 1/5th of that, or .06% per year, or .005% a month. In other words, if the gold market moved like the market for dollars, the price of gold would should drop .005% in a month, or go from $290 to $289.98 in a month in light of England's announcement.

Let me put it another way.

There are 1,250 pennies held by children in a small classroom. (300-350 of those pennies are held by the Central Banks of Nations) If, in the classroom you imagine, there are a 100 kids, the total is 12.5 pennies each. If 30 kids, 41 pennies each, and so on.

Every day, a few popular kids swap about 23 pennies back and forth, making over 8000 penny trades each year. Every year, 25 new pennies are brought into the classroom by the teacher, to add to the One Thousand, Two Hundred and Fifty held by everyone, and every year, about 35 pennies are purchased, not by the popular kids doing the daily trading, but by those kids who rarely (if never) trade them back to the rest.

There is a kid off in the corner (England) with a very tiny stash of 7 pennies (out of the 1250 in the classroom) who just about never trades pennies. He announces to the classroom that he's going to sell 4 pennies over the course of the next year to the class.

There is another shy kid (Swizerland) with 20 pennies, who says that if his mom (the public) lets him and she's never let him before when he's asked, (and the kid also just received a note from her that he can't sell any pennies at all--the public's vote is 5:2 against the sale), he'll sell 13 of his pennies to the class.

There is another kid, more bold than those two (IMF) who says he'll sell 3 pennies to the class, and use the proceeds to help out the poor kids who owe pennies to the rest, if his dad (the U.S.) lets him. Dad's trying to figure out what to say right now, but is thinking about saying no, since it won't make any difference to the poor kids, and might even hurt them.

There is a fourth kid, (Russia) who sold all of his pennies when he went bankrupt, who luckily always gets one penny from the teacher when she gives out the annual penny rations, who says he's going to try to hang on to his penny this year.

In a "panic", because of the possible one-time annual sale of 4 + (probably not 13) + (probably not 3) +/- 1 into the classroom that has an annual shortfall of 10, the children who do the bulk of the 23-penny trading each day, 8000 per year, suddenly tell the rest of the class that all the pennies in the classroom are not worth 12 and a half bucks, but rather, only 11.25.

If you believe that 4 affects 8000, and that an "oversupply" of 4 can lead to a magic devaluation of at least 125 pennies ($290 to $260 is a loss of $30, or, over 10%), then you believe that England's proposed sale (and the stalled Swiss and IMF sales) can affect the price of the gold supply of the world as it has in the last month as reported by world press.

THIS DOES NOT ADD UP! It is a lie that 4 can affect 8000 by 10% in open markets!

In short, if the world gold markets, as reported by the mainstream press, do not make sense, you should begin to identify who the children are that are trading those 23 pennies each day, who are pretending that the pennies do not have the value that they really do.

So then, I have proven that the gold market is being manipulated. I have not proven nor identified the manipulators, although most gold bugs suspect that it is central banks, and/or governments in on this scam.

Many people on gold forums have commented that there is a 'short position' of about 14,000 tonnes of gold on the world market, more or less. There is only about 30,000 tonnes of gold held by the central banks of governments. That sounds like 1/2 of their gold has already been sold out from under them.

It appears that they have tried to use short sales of gold to keep the price of gold artifically low, so that their counterfeiting schemes of creating paper money would go unnoticed. The leasing of gold to gold producers has been their way to achieve temporary (for 20 years) fiat money success.

Now, the Bible offers some advice about owning gold in the 'last days'. On the surface, it appears as if it both condems and recommends holding onto gold. But looking deeper, and with understanding of the current world situation in the gold markets, it all makes sense...

[Jas 5:1] Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
[Jas 5:2] Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
[Jas 5:3] Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
[Jas 5:4] Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
[Jas 5:5] Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

How can gold canker? How can gold rust? How can the rust of gold be a witness against someone? How is the hire of laborers kept back by fraud? How do riches become a wanton pleasure?

Only through the gold leases and fiat money and taxation.

Picture this: A central bank has 715 tonnes of gold. It leases out 400 tonnes, and realizes it will never be able to get them back because other central banks have done the same thing to artifically depress the gold price and create such a large short position (14,000 tonnes, when the annual supply is 2500 tonnes) that to repay would take 5.6 years of gold mining supply. The gold is, in effect, 'rusted away' and when the price rises, it will not save them. In fact, for these money-makers, the rise of the price of gold will destroy them.

Now I understand the Bible prophesy against them, and the Bible's recommendation to buy actual, physical metal makes perfect sense...

[Rev 3:18.6] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich;

If we look at this AMAZING prophesy from Revelation in context, and it makes it all even clearer...

[Rev 3:14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[Rev 3:15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[Rev 3:16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[Rev 3:17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[Rev 3:18.6] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich;

Most Biblical scholars say that the Church of Laodiceans is a message to Americans in the 'last days' --TODAY, who have so much material wealth, but are so lukewarm with their Christianity.

Yes, it is true that Americans have among the highest standard of living in the world. Yet, the dollar, like the ruble, the yen, the real, the peso, and all the rest is backed by nothing. People are blind and do not realize how poor they are when trusting fiat money.

On the one hand, the Bible condemns those 'rich men' who have hoarded gold and silver. On the other hand, it recommends that we actually buy the actual physical metal if we wish to be rich. Only in today's manipulated gold market does the condemnation and advice of the Bible regarding gold make sense.

Some followers of the 'price' of gold have commented that it is at a 20 year low. In fact, if you use inflation adjusted dollars, it's really at a 27 year low. You have to go back to 1972 to buy gold as cheaply as you can get it today. That was right after Nixon refused to let forigners redeem their paper money in the yellow metal for $35. That was the last and final gold default since the 1933 devalutation and confiscation of the great depression. In short, the last time gold was this "cheap", it was illegal to own it in the U.S.

Use the inflation calculator at
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html
and kitco's 1833-Present - Avg. yearly prices (check the box and hit submit) at
http://www.kitco.com/gold.londonfix2.html

I believe only the Bible can make predictions this accurate regarding world events, and the timing of them. I believe that only God can direct world events to ensure that His preditions come true.

I do not know if, in the short term, gold will go down in price to as low as $150 an ounce or lower. But this I know; in the long run it appears as if it will be worth more than it is today.... At least for a while, until...

Unless and until...!

The Antichrist sets up his economic system. The Bible says that he will control the gold and silver...

[Dan 11:43.10] But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

The AntiChrist also enforces a 'mark of the beast' world economic system that identifies every man on earth who wishes to buy and sell.

[Revelation 13:16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)

From my readings, it seems as if the Antichrist rises on the back of economic chaos, and that he comes with the answer to world problems. A rise in the price of gold would cause such ecnomic chaos, and I see the Antichrist's solution being the implantable microchip.

You see, after economic chaos, it appears as if the value of gold will temporarily skyrocket until it is controlled and outlawed when the Antichrist sets up his world economic system.

[Ezek 7:19] They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.

[Mat 6:24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

But let me come back to the recommendation in Rev 3:18 again...

[Rev 3:18.6] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich;

The most amazing thing of all is that there are numerous reports of gold being found in Church services across the world. There are reports of gold teeth and gold dust appearing on people's hands and faces while worshipping Christ. Perhaps this is the spiritual application of Rev 3:18, that is forshadowing the real world fulfillment of a skyrocketing valuation of gold.

For more information,

http://www.jasonhommel.com

SteveH (6/28/99; 19:06:27MDT - Msg ID:8167)
megatron and beesting
Inflation is rampant in all items except inflation.

Don't know about CBs ownership. Do know about low gold prices and their impact on gold-related investments.

Don't know about puts and calls, do know about lack of US Press on gold market manipulation.

Do know that friends say, new paradigm, market best place to be, don't know about how I will pay for six-pack of bud and lowenbrau that I lost predicting DOW 6600 two-months ago.

beesting (6/28/99; 18:49:57MDT - Msg ID:8166)
SteveH#8164 Could it be that the IMF has loaned or leased Gold?
That thought has crossed my mind also,and what about the U.S.'s Central Bank,"The FED" loaning Gold as per Alan Greenspans statement last year!
If U.S.Treasury Gold is being loaned/leased without Congressional approval the Mushroom Manure will REALLY hit the fan.
I'm also wondering if other countries Central Bank holdings are the property of the people of that country,or are the Central Banks private-ly owned?.......beesting


megatron (6/28/99; 18:45:30MDT - Msg ID:8165)
inflation
As a Canadian who travels to the US every 6 months or so to go shopping or on business I cannot believe the amount of inflation in prices in the last 3 years,( even accounting for the canadian peso.) The only item that's relatively the same is gasoline. Food, clothes, alchohol, you name it. There's no doubt in my mind that the official figures are complete lies. It's at least 12-15%. The only reason the average idiot believes it's true is because A; they never leave the country and are unobservant or B; when they do they have no prior basis for judging prices. Dines is right.
It's gotta shoot out at some point, everyone can't be that ignorant can they?

SteveH (6/28/99; 18:19:53MDT - Msg ID:8164)
thought
I noted recently a comment about the IMF. In it -- I have lost the source -- it talked about the IMF loaning gold. Is it just a coincidence? Could it be that the IMF has loaned or leased gold and now (just as we suspect the BOE needs to cover a member bank or dealer) needs to cover a member bank or dealer? Could it be?



beesting (6/28/99; 18:05:37MDT - Msg ID:8163)
Here's what we've been waiting for-U.S. Legislation slates to block IMF Gold sales
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/bcl.html
One opponent of Gold sales said, many in Washington feel that despite the IMF's new push for transparency, the fund continues to treat Congress like Mushrooms by, Keeping us in the dark and pouring Manure on them!!
Sounds like at least one Congressperson,knows exactly how to grow mushrooms.Click above URL for full news release,enjoy,and I'll take a wild guess,Gold goes up tomorrow.........beesting

beesting (6/28/99; 17:24:13MDT - Msg ID:8162)
World Gold Councils policy statement--Why should Central Banks hold Gold.
http://www.gold.org/Gra/T_why.htm
Ever wonder why the U.S. Dollar emerged as the Fiat currency of the World?
Englands Central Bank is replacing Gold Reserves(soon to be sold) with foriegn currency Reserves(U.S. Dollar,Yen, and Euro's) in the hopes of keeping the Pound strong in relation to other World currencies.
Click above URL to see what The World Gold Councils Policy Statement to Central Banks is:
The United States holds SIXTY PERCENT of it's reserves in GOLD.The EU has 27% of reserves in Gold.

It seems Gold reserves are still a very important factor(despite recent anti-Gold propaganda to the contrary) in keeping the value of a currency strong, and I think many U.S. Congressmen/woman,and U.S. Senators realize it. For What It's Worth........beesting

beesting (6/28/99; 16:48:59MDT - Msg ID:8161)
Recent speech by George Milling-Stanley at World Gold conference in London.
http://www.gold.org/Gedt/Speeches/Gms1999/Ft_conf.htm
May be old news to some. Mr. Milling-Stanley states,Central Banks from Poland,Russia, and the Philippines are current buyers of Gold.
Only 5 Central Banks have sold Gold over the last 10 years!
120 Central Banks have not sold Gold recently,and only one(BOE) has stated it intends to sell a portion of it's Gold holdings. Full speach can be read by clicking above URL.......beesting

TownCrier (6/28/99; 16:02:39MDT - Msg ID:8160)
Russian laws-for-loans approved
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_378000/378212.stm
Yikes! With tax collectors like those, I'd rather take my chances among the cruel world having no government at all.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 15:57:06MDT - Msg ID:8159)
Y2K bug busters target company
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_378000/378912.stm
One of the UK's leading financial institutions is at ''serious risk'' from the millennium bug, according to a watchdog.
Runners, take your mark...

TownCrier (6/28/99; 15:51:47MDT - Msg ID:8158)
BBC HEADLINE: Gold miners wait and worry
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_378000/378034.stm
As auction-day approaches, the full-court press via the media has begun. See if you can read through this article and pick out the elements of bluster and propaganda.

Shameful.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 15:27:39MDT - Msg ID:8157)
NY Precious Metals Review
By Melanie Lovatt, Bridge News
New York--Jun 28--
Aug gold settled up $1.20 at $262 per ounce, after trading inside Friday's range. It
was helped higher by strength in silver and growing expectations of
congressional resistance to proposed IMF gold sales. One large New York trade
house bought over 1,200 lots early in the session, but then gold activity
trailed off and the price moved sideways.
* * *
Silver initially got charged up on the move past $5.05 resistance, prompting
further follow-on buying. Two US trade houses were seen as aggressive buyers.
Although volumes were seen as moderate to light, there was considerable
spread activity from the rollover to the Jly-Sep and Jly-Dec contract months.
Today is COMEX gold and silver futures termination day.
Leonard Kaplan, chief bullion dealer at LFG Bullion Services noted that the
recent dip in COMEX silver stocks is bullish. He said 1-month lease rates are up
fractionally to 1.5% which is also a positive sign.
Meanwhile, this morning's over-the-counter gold and silver options expiry
passed without much activity, said dealers. Gold had a quiet overnight session
and only livened up after silver's rally. "Gold is simply seeing back and forth
technical trade," said one market participant. Another agreed, noting it is
simply "marking time" ahead of the UK Treasury's Jly 6 gold auction.

Comments today from outgoing US Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin were largely
nothing new and shrugged off by market players.
In an interview with a small group of journalists, Rubin said he believes
there has been a fundamental shift in the philosophy of many of the world's
central banks towards the metal. But Rubin stressed again that the US has
"absolutely no intention" of divesting some of its gold reserves.

Kaplan noted that gold is being supported by growing congressional
opposition to IMF gold sales. Last week US Sens. Jesse Helms (R-N.C.) and Chuck
Hagel (R-Ne.) added their voice to a growing list of lawmakers opposed to a plan
by the Group of 7 industrialized nations to provide debt relief to poor
countries by selling a portion of the IMF's gold reserves.
However, he pointed out that the market is "stupidly short" and noted that
fears of a short-covering rally are growing.

--Aug gold (GCQ9) at $262, up $1.2; RANGE: $260.6-262.6

Reprinted at USAGOLD with permission. For details please go to:
http://www.crbindex.com/reviews/index.htm
No further reproduction without written permission

TownCrier (6/28/99; 15:13:41MDT - Msg ID:8156)
Columbian devaluation will not boost coffee sales
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/4o.html
Salt in the wound...

TownCrier (6/28/99; 15:06:34MDT - Msg ID:8155)
Analysts doubt U.S. debt to disappear by 2015
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/7b.html
As a rule, politicians don't understand how modern currency functions.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 11:11:50MDT - Msg ID:8154)
Argentina asks U.S. to talk dollar plan
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990623/x8.html
Paper money and fears of devaluation...

TownCrier (6/28/99; 11:08:33MDT - Msg ID:8153)
Colombia devalues peso to boost economy
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/ec.html
How would you like to be a Columbian citizen with an account filled with pesos? Wave bye bye...

TownCrier (6/28/99; 11:02:01MDT - Msg ID:8152)
Graf and McEnroe: Comedy Act Central
http://www.wimbledon.org/wim/news.nsf/WebNewsByDate/970FBCB55F4400148525679C00070C0B.html
Alright, Ari, you made me look into it. It got a great write-up.
Will they go home with gold? ...from the BoE sale, maybe? The price is up, perhaps on this very news...

Aristotle (6/28/99; 10:47:23MDT - Msg ID:8151)
Apologies to the small number that held their breath for Part 5
Family matters forced a delay, but I'm getting back up to speed. Delivery today looks to be in the cards.

Did anyone catch J.P. McEnroe's return to Wimbledon action on Court One--mixed doubles with Steffi Graf? What a GOLDen moment! (Sorry for the off-topic, MK.)

Richard, Oregon (6/28/99; 10:06:18MDT - Msg ID:8150)
Tanks!
Thanks for your feedback soo quick. Off to work!

TownCrier (6/28/99; 10:02:04MDT - Msg ID:8149)
The House of Representatives
http://www.house.gov/
fin

Broken Tee (6/28/99; 10:01:40MDT - Msg ID:8148)
response to TownCrier post 8143
It would seem this is nothing more than a lame duck trying to tell the public what they want to hear.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 10:00:05MDT - Msg ID:8147)
The Senate
http://www.senate.gov/
As requested, Sir Richard.

Richard, Oregon (6/28/99; 9:54:03MDT - Msg ID:8146)
URLs
Would someone list the urls (website addresses) for the house and senate please. I'd like them both so as to enable myself to write my elected officials often.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:58:39MDT - Msg ID:8145)
A look at the tea leaves to start the week...
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/rl.html
Most IMM currency futures lower early, yen higher
Everyone seems to be awaiting the FOMC decision.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:53:46MDT - Msg ID:8144)
U.S. consumer spending up in May, savings hit low
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/ry.html
"With savings being withdrawn at a faster pace than ever before, consumers likely dipped into past gains from sources such as rising stock prices and equity in their homes to support their spending habits."

Does anyone think this spells trouble for the sustainability of the stock market bubble?

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:50:24MDT - Msg ID:8143)
Clinton proposes paying off U.S. debt by 2015
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/of.html
Can you believe this nonsense? You can't pay off debt with debt, especially when interest requires more repaid than borrowed. Who will be left holding the bag? Thoughts, anyone?

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:45:25MDT - Msg ID:8142)
Rubin stands by strong dollar policy, prods Japan
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/qu.html
Rubin warns of U.S. trade deficit being problemmatic, and urges Japan to start shopping.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:41:13MDT - Msg ID:8141)
Rubin sees low inflation ahead for U.S. economy
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/qw.html
Despite attempts at ambiguity, Treasury Secretary Rubin seems to beleive an economic slowdown is in the cards.

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:36:07MDT - Msg ID:8140)
Rubin urges quick U.S. Senate vote on Summers
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/q0.html
Rubin's desire to exit by July 4 gets him down the road before the BoE auction on July 6. He doesn't want any delay in the confirmation to postpone his scheduled July 4 departure. Does he know something, or does he simply want to sleep late on the 5th?

TownCrier (6/28/99; 8:29:05MDT - Msg ID:8139)
Rubin urges Congress to approve IMF gold sales
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990628/qz.html
Again with this?? Seems like there might be an air of desperation.

USAGOLD (6/28/99; 8:25:56MDT - Msg ID:8138)
Daily Gold Market Report: "Market More Inclined to Test Upside"
MARKET REPORT(6/28/99): Gold showed some signs of life this morning -- at one
point trading $1.20 higher -- with investment markets across the boards girding up for this
week's Federal Reserve Open Market Committee meeting. Most market observers say the
Fed will raise rates a quarter point; some are saying a half. The decision is expected to be
announced Wednesday the day many Americans will begin making preparations for the
long Fourth of July weekend/getaway.

Subsequently, don't forget, the Bank of England steps to the plate July 6 with its first gold
auction at which many unanswered questions are likely to find at least the beginnings of
resolution. Reuters London offers this assessment of the BOE situation from Kamal Naqvi
of British based Macquarie Equities: "Prices have not fallen as low as once seemed possible
prior to the first UK 25-tonne gold auction and the market now seems more inclined to test
the upside. We are currently expecting an auction price of $265.00 per ounce but would not
be surprised if the market attempts higher in the interim."

In the 1970s when both the United States and the International Monetary Fund auctioned
gold the price rose throughout the liquidation. Many attribute the strong bidding at the sales
as the primary motivator for the bull market in gold that became one of the defining financial
events of that decade. Back to this morning's Reuters: "Traders have suggested a successful
auction could spark short covering and lift prices from near 20-year lows by flushing out
investment funds holding large short positions. Data released late on Friday by the U.S.
Commodity Futures Trading Commission put net non-commercial futures positions in
COMEX gold at nearly 8.5 million ounces short." The optimism is based on the fact that
short positions at some point need to be covered in order for the holder of that position to
reap a profit -- unless of course the holder of that position doesn't mind if the option expires
worthless. As we said in the June issue of News & Views:

This is the time of year when thoughts turn to summertime pleasures -- tying the
perfect fly, grooving the swing, getting the boat on the water, barbecues and picnics,
family and friends. Most years we encourage our friends and readers to kick back, let the
markets and world events take a back seat, and let the summer flow. This year we are
counseling caution. There is much in the wind and here's where we get back to our Five
Horsemen -- Y2K, euro introduction, the Asian contagion, the over-valued stock market
and rising oil. This is a year to put one foot in the affairs of summer, another in the
affairs of financial markets and attend to both. Judging from the discussions I have had
with Centennial clientele, most are already thinking along these lines. For those
counting on an easy, carefree summer this year, events might might shake the reverie.

In the latest News & Views, we ramble through the many issues surrounding the gold
market and give the reader a good, solid overview of what's happened in this topsy turvy
market of the last month or so. If you are looking for some short and sweet analysis as to
what is going in the gold market today from a multitude of sources, you'll like this
upcoming issue. It is a quick and interesting read. Please go to our ORDER FORM or call
Marie at 1-800-869-5115 for a Free Copy of News & Views -- our widely read monthly
newsletter -- and introductory packet on gold ownership.

Technician (6/28/99; 8:00:34MDT - Msg ID:8137)
DM buy
Bought DM this morning. Low risk, End of day will tell.

Technician (6/28/99; 6:13:31MDT - Msg ID:8136)
Small risk
I am buying Aug. gold at opening today. $100 to $200 risk per contract. But if I can catch the trend much more on upside.
Should not have to give it much room on downside.

SteveH (6/28/99; 5:24:08MDT - Msg ID:8135)
August gold up now...
$261.70.

from fleckenstein:

"Get a life... Housing prices are exploding and labor is as tight as hell. It if weren't for the fact that everyone's getting paid in stock options, wage rates and labor would be ratcheting up. Inflation is picking back up even in the completely manipulated government statistics. If the Fed waits until inflation is reported in the statistics, it will have a gigantic problem. The inflation has been going on in the stock market for a long time, and now it's so out of control it's even leaking into the real economy.

A rate hike won't stop us from swinging into recession in a heartbeat once the stock market cracks, but for anyone to think that the Fed is going to get away with just 25 basis points is absurd, because 25 basis points is not going to change anything. It might tip over the psychology in the stock market, in which case it will be enough, but in the absence of that, why should anybody really care if the Fed takes back a stinking 25 basis points?"



Canuck (6/28/99; 4:28:03MDT - Msg ID:8134)
Interest rate announcement
Can someone tell me when A.G. informs us of the interest rate adjustment? I heard 2:15(eastern time) Wednesday, June
30. Please confirm.

Thanks.



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