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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 2/26/2005 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Gonlyold (2/26/05; 22:45:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 129674) IRA's @ TCYour point about congress being able to change tax rates at will in well taken. That should be enough to warn people about entering into a contract with the government.My concern about inflation was not about the revising tax brackets. It was about the concern of 40 or 50 years of inflation between the initial entry into an IRA and retirement. Basically, how much has the dollar erroded from the time a person first deferred paying taxes on the $2000. to the time he withdraws that $2000 plus interest. I'm sure people on this site can make a case for the diminishing value of the dollar. I will make a case, not too scientific however, using the price of automobiles.Back in the 60's you could purchase a "good" car for about $3000. Today you could purchase a "good" car for about $24000. That's an 8 times increase in the cost of living. To me that means that a person making $10000 back in the 60's will need to make $80000 today to maintain the same standard of living.Now look what happened to the tax bracket he's in! The only way he can make out, tax wise, is if he lowers his life style to below the $10000 a year he was earning back in the 60's. But even at todays standards, you need more than $10k to live on which means he will have to withdraw more than the $10k to live on which means that he's paying more tax which means that his IRA caused him to spend more on taxes.I'm sure there are accountants here that can really disect what is really happened to that $2000/year over 40 or 50 years and come up with a better answer as to how much IRA people are loosing. I would encourage anyone to offer such a disposition on IRA's.All in all, I think the IRA deception is an element of evidence that the government is not looking out for our general welfare. I stay away from IRA's.Also, when gold is placed in an IRA, you will not have possession of the gold. That may not, er...is not a good way to own gold. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (2/26/05; 11:55:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 129673) Helping you enter the gold market with grace and confidence. http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html Caradoc (2/26/05; 10:01:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 129672) Venezuela seizing assets http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4297427.stm BBC News has article about Venezuelan government seizing [foreign owned] farmland which it decides is underutilized. The last paragraph provides a hint as to what comes next:"...[the Chavez government] recently said all mining contracts involving foreign firms would be examined to ensure they provided sufficient economic benefits to the state."The worldwide grab for resources is apparently accellerating, but it's not too late to grab your share of the ultimate resource: gold.Caradoc Goldilox (2/26/05; 09:40:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 129671) FSN Saturday http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm Jim Puplava begins today's FSN broadcast with the House debate between Ron Paul and Sir AG on the efficacy of the gold standard.Greenspan suggests that CB's are NOT complicit in expansion of expenditures.Other topics include "Resource Wars" and "Dogs of the Dow".Brew a cup and enjoy! Goldilox (2/26/05; 09:22:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 129670) Opps Sorry, it's J-Bullion, not 3-Bullion. I wasn't wearing my "readers". Goldilox (2/26/05; 09:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 129669) Gold Roth IRA The issue with 3-bullion's solution is that the tax (and penalty, if under age) is paid on the IRA conversion and then again on any realized value increase of the PM asset between removal and sale.Another solution similar to 3-Bullion's is to convert the gold portion of an IRA into a Roth IRA, of possible. This way the taxes are paid at conversion time, allowing value increases to "grow" tax-free if left until age 59 1/2. Assets with home run potential (four bagger or above) are safer from the tax man in a Roth IRA.This is especially opportunistic for anyone over 50 and in the bone pile, as the conversion tax rate is based upon current income, and eligibility requires income below some 6-figure threshold.As far as I know, any investment on the "approved list" for IRA is also eligible for Roth IRA.I'm sure Jonathon can help with any questions on the details of setting up the account. J-Bullion (2/26/05; 07:50:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 129668) Withdrawals form an IRA account containing gold In regard to the question about IRA gold holdings:You simply withdraw the gold from the IRA account. The Custodian would send the US$ amount (valued at the ask price so the govt. collects the most taxes...I Know I pull some out every year and pay my penalty because I feel the tax rate on $400 gold today plus penalty is better than paying the taxes on $1000+ gold when I retire, since who knows what the tax rate will be then when the govt. is in deep trouble) So basically, you get your gold and the govt. gets a statement in US$ terms of the value that was withdrawn so they can tax you on it. Hope this helps Ned (2/26/05; 04:16:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 129667) Wowsers! CRB breaks and holds 300...........300.23 !!! Goldilox (2/26/05; 00:09:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 129666) Tax Brackets @ TCYour quote "And in fact, the most recent times have run counter to your suggestion -- the size of the lowest tax brackets have been enlarged"Remember, also, that by removing the top bracket, the last round of tax cuts essentially bumped the second-highest bracket (60K-125K) into the highest bracket.This had two effects. One, it negated the "tax cut" for younger professionals, as their 3% was reversed by finding themselves bumped up a bracket. Hmmm . . . The tax rate difference between the top and 2nd brackets was, not surprisingly, 3%. Two, it weighted the revenues from the largest single tax-paying bracket even higher, placing a further percentage tax burden on the upper middle class. As a recently retired individual, I tend to agree with Gonlyold, as I seem to be paying more tax on less income, considering I also have fewer deductions in my retirement mode by having downsized the mortgage as well.A return to stronger levels of inflation will definitely exacerbate this, absorbing a lot of the value growth as "invisible taxation".As more and more alternate taxes are rearing their ugly heads to cover revenue shortfalls, the tax burdens on individuals will continue to increase.On a similar note, an increase in the SSI collection rates will aslo shit more tax burden from higher incomes to the larger distribution of populace. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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