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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/26/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Sierra Madre (05/26/02; 23:56:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 76638)
The tenor of discussion on this site...

seems to me to be growing more and more agitated. There is apparent a great underlying unease, expressed in worries about multiple things.

Maybe something rather nasty is brewing, and we are all sensing the danger. Paranoid? Perhaps...

But, let us all enjoy life, enjoy living, and hope for the best. We have all done what we can, and more is not asked of any man. To all the good spirits reading, Good night and God Bless!

Sierra

Waverider (05/26/02; 23:40:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 76637)
WGC: Gold Demand Trends May 2002
http://www.gold.org/finalgold/gold/Gedt/Gdt39/GDT_no.39_final.pdf
Haven't read it yet but here's the link for Gold Demand Trends for Q1'02 (pdf file). (If it's already been posted this is for those of us who missed it :) Enjoy!

Black Blade (05/26/02; 23:34:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 76636)
'Gold run a load of bull' - analyst
http://www.mips1.net/C2256BC2002A8603/UNID/LCLY-5AHPLD?OpenDocument

Snippit:

LONDON - The present bull market for gold will not stop the "stampede" by central banks and other official holders that has seen them cutting their bullion stocks substantially, warned Andy Smith, analyst at Mitsui Global Precious Metals in London. Ironically, central bank disinvestment from gold was likely to accelerate as gold miners reduce hedging and sell less bullion themselves. "The exit for the central banks has been widened," Smith told delegates.

To conclude, Smith returned to one of his favourite themes – the possibility that eventually gold would go the way of silver. For many decades central banks used silver as their main physical asset but abandoned the "silver standard" in the late 19th century. "Silver fluctuated since then about a commodity price parity, despite strong official buying from time to time," he pointed out – and despite the efforts of the Hunt brothers and Warren Buffet when they bought big quantities of physical silver. The central banks started seriously to sell their gold stocks late in the 20th century, Smith pointed out. If, as a consequence, gold "catches down" with silver, the price would eventually settle at US$68 an ounce.



My response to Andy Smith at miningweb:

Since Andy fancy's himself an expert on Gold. My question is: It the CBs are selling their Gold reserves, who is it exactly that is buying?

According the World Gold Council's own data, the official CB Gold reserve is still at about 32,000 tons - the same as 20 years ago. So please, oh learned one, tell us unfortunate peons - who pray tell is buying this Gold?

Could it be simply entries from one CB to another? We await your words of wisdom exalted one!

- Black Blade

Of course, Andy is no rocket scientist. He has repeated this drivel for years and even predicted a POG sub $150 before it would go up, and this prior to the recent rally. I am sure that now he will claim that he foresaw this rally as a "wise old sage", but that is dubious at best. Now he crows again. Quite pathetic really. Even more pathetic that miningweb wastes so much bandwidth on such nonsense.



OZ (05/26/02; 23:20:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 76635)
gold price
$$$$325.70$$$$
Because that's what it is going to be. Gold price increas will be 10.00$ per month until hedgebooks blow out and then the moon

Black Blade (05/26/02; 23:02:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 76634)
Gold retailers struggle to honour margin calls
http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=52472

Snippit:

The consistent rally witnessed in the gold price during the last couple of weeks has revived memories of 1999 September-October period when several small to average-sized gold traders had to struggle in order to honour the margin calls from wholesalers.

Gold closed $321.35 an ounce on Saturday, creating a two and half year record. According to a top gold trader, if the price doesn't stabilise within a few days, many in the trade would find it difficult to raise the margin on the 'unfix' trade arrangement they have entered with wholesalers.

"More money is currently going towards the excess margin. And hence the stock replenishment has taken a backseat," a jeweller who has been running an outlet in Dubai for the last couple of years revealed.

Black Blade: Oh my, those margin calls.



Black Blade (05/26/02; 22:51:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 76633)
Gold production falls to 7-year low as exploration cut
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/26/1022243290609.html.

Snippit:

The rally in gold prices to 30-month highs has come too late to arrest the decline in Australian gold production, with March quarter production slumping to seven-year lows.
Surbiton managing director Dr Sandra Close said the latest March quarter figure was the lowest quarterly output since September 1995. "The continued drop in production is no surprise, it's the direct outcome of lower exploration expenditure," she said.

"Lower exploration expenditure over the last four to five years had led to a situation where new discoveries and developments were not keeping pace with mine closures. "Also, some of Australia's larger, long-term producers had now come to the end of their lives," Dr Close said. In recent months Kidston (Placer Dome) and Mt Leyshon (Mount Leyshon Gold Mines) in north Queensland have stopped production after running out of reserves. In the golden state, Western Australia, the Boddington mine (Newmont, AngloGold and Newcrest) and the Mt Charlotte mine (Newmont and Barrick) are close to the end of their life.


Black Blade: This is the case worldwide. Mines are depleting resources and not replacing reserves. There will be a sharp fall off in new mine supply over the next three to five years. Then it will deteriorate fast as it takes anywhere from 5 to 7 years to start a new mine, and then maybe another year or so to start producing Gold. Gold prices should move considerably higher as a result. Don't even be concerned with the Central Banks, even if they do sell any reserves (not likely when prices are rising), they only sell to each other or to very select members of "the club" (the BoE auctions were only to LBMA members and not to the "riff raff").



Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 22:49:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 76632)
REPOST for Sir OZ
Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 10:28:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 76590)
DUPLICATE Entry NOTICE !!!
OZ (05/26/02; 04:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 76575)
(No Subject)
$$$$325.50$$$$
---
Sorry Sir Oz, THIS Entry was "taken" !
Please check the List below and RE-Enter. Thanks!
<;-)

Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 22:47:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 76631)
The COMEX GOLD JUNE '02 Settlement Price GUESSING CONTEST
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/tools/guideandsignup.html
TA, TA, TA, TAAA, TAAA, TAAAAAAAA, TAAA, TAAA, TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Hear Ye. . . .Hear Ye. . . . A Call to Contest. . .
Under the auspices of Sir MK, our USAGOLD Forum host, Centennial Precious Metals, Inc., is requesting a test of your thinking, predicting and posting skills to occur until midnight (MDT Denver, CO time) on Thursday, May 30th to Guess the SETTLEMENT Price of the June COMEX GOLD Contract on Friday, May 31, 2002. Prizes are one Swiss 20 Franc Helvetia (0.1867 ounces of GOLD) to the WINNER, and a one ounce Silver Maple Leaf to EACH of the Runners-up.

This is also an "Invitation" to all UNREGISTERED LURKERS to submit your request to be able to "POST" by following the instructions at the ABOVE LINK, and THEN be able to enter the CONTEST!!!

---
THE RULES
1) The winner is the closest to the Settlement price of the most active
JUNE GOLD Contract (GC2M) on the date of Friday the 31st of May, 2002.
2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths ! (Such as 543.2)
3) "Guesses" shall be enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs"
so as to be OFFICIAL ! Such as $$$$ 543.2 $$$$
4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady and once that "Guess"
has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !!
FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".
5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock
in Denver strikes 12 Midnight on Thursday, MAY 30th.
6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY -- A short "WHY" discussion
paragraph MUST accompany each "Guess".
===

10 th UPDATE on POG Guessing Contest ! <;-)

ENTRIES in Contest (sorted by Price) !!
====
$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (05/24/02; 05:39:59MT msg#: 76471

$$$$ 440.2 $$$$ goldquest (05/22/02; 14:17:02MT msg#: 76261

$$$$ 360.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (05/24/02; 12:29:56MT msg#: 76497

$$$$ 355.9 $$$$ darkhorse (05/22/02; 21:25:11MT msg#: 76317

$$$$ 354.0 $$$$ Henri (05/24/02; 09:18:51MT msg#: 76490

$$$$ 352.5 $$$$ White Hills (05/22/02; 19:23:20MT msg#: 76300

$$$$ 348.0 $$$$ White Rose (05/25/02; 22:03:47MT msg#: 76569

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (5/25/02; 06:23:45MT msg#: 76533

$$$$ 342.0 $$$$ neer-do-well (05/24/02; 08:20:19MT msg#: 76484

$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (05/22/02; 16:32:28MT msg#: 76278

$$$$ 337.5 $$$$ wiley (05/23/02; 10:49:37MT msg#: 76386

$$$$ 336.6 $$$$ zorro (5/23/02; 16:42:43MT msg#: 76420

$$$$ 336.0 $$$$ Creosote (05/22/02; 19:38:52MT msg#: 76303

$$$$ 335.6 $$$$ Kodie (05/26/02; 09:59:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 76588

$$$$ 334.3 $$$$ Believer (05/22/02; 16:19:37MT msg#: 76277

$$$$ 333.3 $$$$ Tevye (05/22/02; 13:58:29MT msg#: 76258

$$$$ 331.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (05/24/02; 22:40:53MT msg#: 76522

$$$$ 329.4 $$$$ Clint H (5/23/02; 19:18:44MT msg#: 76436

$$$$ 328.4 $$$$ Slowman (05/24/02; 07:37:27MT msg#: 76479

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ timbervision (05/23/02; 09:17:25MT msg#: 76369

$$$$ 327.2 $$$$ vermillion (5/23/02; 19:19:38MT msg#: 76437

$$$$ 327.0 $$$$ Solomon Weaver (05/25/02; 21:59:46MT msg#: 76568
$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ Achilles (05/24/02; 04:29:15MT msg#: 76466
$$$$ 326.8 $$$$ Hipplebeck (05/23/02; 06:07:51MT msg#: 76357

$$$$ 326.6 $$$$ slingshot (05/24/02; 19:24:09MT msg#: 76519

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ Broken Tee (5/23/02; 15:38:46MT msg#: 76416

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ steady (05/24/02; 15:26:22MT msg#: 76503

$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ Around The Corner (5/23/02; 02:17:38MT msg#: 76350
$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ THX-1138 (05/22/02; 16:45:28MT msg#: 76279
$$$$ 324.8 $$$$ Yellow Metal (05/22/02; 16:51:55MT msg#: 76280

$$$$ 324.6 $$$$ Graefin (05/22/02; 13:33:35MT msg#: 76257

$$$$ 324.2 $$$$ Rock (05/22/02; 13:06:37MT msg#: 76254

$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ VanRip (05/22/02; 21:58:11MT msg#: 76323

$$$$ 322.6 $$$$ misetich (5/23/02; 03:05:56MT msg#: 76351

$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ RobertG (5/23/02; 19:23:59MT msg#: 76438

$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Jimbo (05/22/02; 14:31:21MT msg#: 76264

$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (5/23/02; 03:47:11MT msg#: 76353

$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Trapper (05/22/02; 17:52:38MT msg#: 76284

$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ YGM (05/22/02; 13:29:47MT msg#: 76256

$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Houston (5/25/02; 12:57:47MT msg#: 76551

$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ EagleOne (05/22/02; 21:26:49MT msg#: 76318

$$$$ 318.2 $$$$ onlychild (05/22/02; 15:10:37MT msg#: 76269

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ balzac (05/23/02; 07:33:25MT msg#: 76363

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Tommy P (05/23/02; 07:00:52MT msg#: 76361

$$$$ 317.0 $$$$ nickel62 (05/26/02; 09:20:46MT msg#: 76585

$$$$ 316.5 $$$$ cwa (05/24/02; 08:04:10MT msg#: 76481

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ luckypierre (05/25/02; 15:52:53MT msg#: 76555

$$$$ 315.4 $$$$ ausome (05/22/02; 18:51:28MT msg#: 76296

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (05/22/02; 17:51:17MT msg#: 76283

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Pippin (05/23/02; 07:14:36MT msg#: 76362

$$$$ 313.5 $$$$ Topaz (5/25/02; 08:44:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 76541

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ AUtistic (05/22/02; 17:50:02MT msg#: 76282

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ kludge (05/23/02; 08:11:29MT msg#: 76365
===
<;-)

Black Blade (05/26/02; 22:00:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 76630)
Placer to cut Auriongold hedges
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020526/minerals_auriongold_hedges_2.html

Snippit:

SYDNEY, May 27 (Reuters) - North American gold producer Placer Dome Inc (NYSE:PDG) said on Monday it will reduce the gold hedge book of takeover target AurionGold Ltd if its bid for the Australian miner is successful.

"Our intention is to reduce the size of the book to bring it more in conformity with Placer's policy, which is to have a modest amount of hedging, and leave most of the upside to our shareholders," Placer president and chief executive Jay Taylor told a media teleconference.

With bullion trading at its highest level in more than two years, AurionGold had already planned to reduce its forward sales exposure to 60 percent from 86 percent of its total reserves over the next two years by delivering gold into its hedge book and by increasing its reserves. Placer was also cutting its existing hedge book to around eight million ounces by the end of the year.

Gold hedging -- selling unmined nuggets at fixed prices -- has been a popular industry tactic to guarantee revenue and thwart cyclical price downturns. But critics assert the practice stymies market-driven price moves. It has also punished some heavily hedged companies, which actually lost money when they were forced to buy back gold hedges at higher prices than they had agreed to sell under options agreements.


Black Blade: The mad scramble to merge is on. The Mega-Hedgers really are feeling the heat now. Of course Mega-Hedger Placer and minor insignificant player Aurion (also hedged up to its neck) won't make much of a dent. It is more like two drowning men trying to climb over each other to get out of the water. Actually it is more of a non-story. The fact is that the "Day of the Hedger" is over and the Meg-Hedgers are likely to suffer horrific losses before this is all over.




Waverider (05/26/02; 21:53:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 76629)
DownUnder
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=ABX&d=c&k=c1&c=HGMCY,GG,PDG,DROOY,GOLD,MDG&a=v&p=s&t=6m&l=on&z=m&q=l
Check out the attached chart - Black Blade has posted it on a number of occassions - I've added PDG for you. Notice that the hedgers have underperformed the non-hedgers in the past six months. BTW, I had the same nice suprise last week with my silver junior. Cheers,
Waverider

The Invisible Hand (05/26/02; 21:53:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 76628)
The United Socialists of America
Husky (05/26/02; 17:58:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 76605)
Zorro Chapman and SA stocks
[Confiscation] only happens in third world countries run by 'socialists'. Sheesh, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
==
That's what they thought in Russia before 1917 also.


Canuck (05/26/02; 21:32:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 76627)
@ Jimbo
Jimbo-Bob-Dude,

You are worried. Are you up? If you are worried bail out; a little.

I have been pleading and begging and convincing my old lady for 4 years to get into gold. Finally about a year ago I promised her that I would not lose 'one red cent' of her money in gold. I would cover her losses and she could keep the profits. (leverage?)

She took my offer.

She gave me $10,000 and I invested it in a conservative (?) gold fund. After 3 months she was up a little, after 6 months she was up alot. I told her we should shave off the profits. The 2 or 3 thousand was put into T-bills leaving the 10k.

After another few months another 2 or 3 thousand was put into T-bills. Eventually the fund nearly has paid for itself, the original $10,000 and 8 or 9 thousand shaved off and resting in 'cash'. If gold falls off a cliff and I lose the 'original 10k' I have little to cover. If gold runs a major spike I am 'in'.

My point.

If you are worried about the SA stocks, trim back. If one continuously plays the 'double or nothing' eventually one has nothing. A 100% investment is a dangerous game, unless of course if one can AFFORD it.

This is called a 'loss-limit'. Use it to your advantage.

I started with 10k, will bow out at 8,500. If 10k turns to 12k, I peel off 2 and 10k (net)is now my new limit, 12 turns to 14 and 12 is my limit, etc., etc.

Make a profit and be sure TO WALK AWAY WITH (part of) IT.

Canuck.

YGM (05/26/02; 21:24:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 76626)
Financial Warfare to Lead to Demise of Central Banking.........
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/chossudovsky/demise.htm
EXCERPT:


FINANCIAL WARFARE TO LEAD TO DEMISE OF CENTRAL BANKING?
By Michel Chossudovsky (professor of economics at the University of Ottawa, and author of "The Globalisation of Poverty, Impacts of IMF and World Bank Reforms", Third World Network, Penang and Zed Books, London, 1997.)

"Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men". (Franklin D. Roosevelt's First Inaugural Address, 1933)



OTTAWA, Canada - Humanity is undergoing in the post-Cold War era an economic crisis of unprecedented scale leading to the rapid impoverishment of large sectors of the World population. The plunge of national currencies in virtually all major regions of the World has contributed to destabilizing of national economies while precipitating entire countries into abysmal poverty.

The crisis is not limited to Southeast Asia or the former Soviet Union. The collapse in the standard of living is taking place abruptly and simultaneously in a large number of countries. This Worldwide crisis of the late twentieth century is more devastating than the Great Depression of the 1930s. It has far-reaching geopolitical implications. Economic dislocations has also been accompanied by the outbreak of regional conflicts, the fracturing of national societies and in some cases a destruction of entire countries. This is by far the most serious economic crisis in modern history.

The existence of a "global financial crisis" is casually denied by the Western media, its social impacts are downplayed or distorted; international institutions including the United Nations deny the mounting tide of World poverty: "the progress in reducing poverty over the [late] 20th century is remarkable and unprecedented..." The "consensus" is that the Western economy is "healthy," and that "market corrections" on Wall Street are largely attributable to the "Asian flu" and to Russia's troubled "transition to a free market economy".

EVOLUTION OF THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS......Cont'd @ Link


****Avoid the fallout from this war...Physical Gold...YGM




YGM (05/26/02; 20:58:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 76625)
US..Won't Abandon Central Asia....
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/bbc1219.htm
Many other interesting articles here @.....
http://www.tenc.net/

GoldnSilver2002 (05/26/02; 20:49:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 76624)
1984 and andy smith
I had to laugh when i heard andy smiths comments on gold at 100 per oz!Man i can see their desperation,they truly have run out of real options or gimmicks.NOw uder seige they send out their media pawns(after payment of course) to blurb out "Sell your gold".Gold is the best performing sector this year and people are pulling out of the u.s markets.Now in total panick ,their demise,now imminent,coming more quickly than anyone expected.How much longer will investors get ripped of for billions and be given a mere apology? While Merill Lynch pays off the govt $100 million,investors get zero!Can this get anymore blatANT.Japanese minister announces Japan ready for recovery!Ha,just take everything they say "double talk" and turn it around.Here ill show you how it works.The recovery is coming next quarter,means holy crap we are in trouble,there is no recovery in sight.Sell gold means buy gold quickly and "buy and hold" means "sell its crap!"

The current financial system is a mess based on quickly waning confidence.They are going to pass this on to the sheeple by giving hyper inflation they are now hiding,very poorly through blatant gold manipulation.If you want to make money dont listen to the analysts,do your own research!

YGM (05/26/02; 20:31:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 76623)
Downunder....
PDG....
Very heavily hedged in Gold and also in Silver....I believe they have a few million oz of Silver Hedges....I know I would follow Lapmrey's lead and drop any association with PDG....Mergers are always a hint of possible deflections of problems in many cases? No?.....FWIW.....YGM

GOLDENPROPHECY (05/26/02; 20:30:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 76622)
GOLD AND SILVER INFO AVAILABLE BY MONTH FROM MAHENDRA
SHARMA IS NOW AVAILABLE ON

WWW.WORLD-PROPHECIES.COM

IT IS WORTH READING AND PREDICTING THAT GOLD PRICES ARE EXPECTED TO GO A LOT HIGHER, LET US SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

Mexican (05/26/02; 20:21:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 76621)
Will the tension between India and Pakistan lead to war?
http://islamweb.net/pls/iweb/misc1.etst
Yes = 51%
No = 20%
Don't know = 29%

As of 05/27/02.

Saludos!

MX

mikal (05/26/02; 20:20:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 76620)
@DOWNUNDER
Shanthi=Siochain=Peace=Shanti=Amen=So be it=And so it is=Ahum=Om,etc.

Cavan Man (05/26/02; 20:06:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 76619)
@Sierra
Sell your silver! Also, a certain someone is out of the country during a period of many warnings. Coincidence?

Cavan Man (05/26/02; 20:03:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 76618)
(Dandy) Andy Smith (last comment I promise):
HOW LOW CAN HE GO?
His last forecast for POG was USD$100.00. His confidence for the product has now waned USD$32.00. This must have be a long weekend for the other side eh Andy? Also, for a man in your position; sorry to say I personally cannot take you seriously with a name like "Andy".

Sierra Madre (05/26/02; 20:00:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 76617)
Cyanide is missing...
This, that and the other...

You all know a considerable quantity of cyanide is missing since a truck loaded with barrels of the stuff was hijacked in Mexico. About 25% of the poison was recovered. The rest has not been found.

Now, why would anybody want to make off with a large amount of cyanide? Well, let's see. Someone who does not like the present Mexican government might want to spill a little here or there, and then present a set of requests...

Or they might just present the requests quietly and in that case, what would the Mex. Gov't do? I guess, fork over. Or effect some changes - which I can't guess at the moment.

But there is another thought. What if the cyanide finds its way across the very long frontier with the US? A few gallons in some city's water supply would have deadly effect.

Who would want to do this? Plenty of people all over the world are not happy with the US.

However, a country "X" that wants to provoke the US into a war that basically favors country "X" and no one else, might want to use the stuff to push the US into a blind fury and thus, move against...Iraq? (Now that that scheme seems to have been put on hold, probably much to the disgust of country "X".)

We don't know anything, we can only surmise. But that missing cyanide is not going to show up in any barter market.

Sorry for this dismal post. Gold at $68? Don't make me laugh! Why not at $5, like some Congressman a few years ago predicted? Gold at $68? A. Smith, your opinion of the intelligence of mankind is just too low. We're dumb, but not THAT dumb! In fact, I don't think I'll be able to get much more yellow stuff, as by the time I have some cash, it will be out of reach.

Sierra





DOWNUNDER (05/26/02; 19:43:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 76616)
@MIKAL - - - - Re Message 76331
Hi there Mikal -- as you are up & about,it may be a good time to alert you to a reply that I posted re asking the meaning of the word "Shanthi" which you used in closing a post.

I would appreciate knowing the meaning/translation of this word.TYIA

Cavan Man (05/26/02; 19:43:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 76615)
Sir Jimbo: On SA mineral nationalization
I don't think this is fulfillment of any sort of internet prophecy. I think it is simply an indication that some serious long term money is going to be made in said minerals soon.

Cavan Man (05/26/02; 19:29:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 76614)
The world has passed many by (and by)...
Mr. Smith is no exception.
I wonder which central banks he is referring to? Andy, you can't be serious.

Lamprey (05/26/02; 19:26:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 76613)
DOWNUNDER
Placer Dome is quite heavily hedged -- notice their share price has not kept up with the light/non-hedgers.

Unfortunately, I'm on my way out the door for the evening...but my 2 cents worth of non-investment advice is that you might do well by taking PDG's offer for your Aurion shares and looking elsewhere (make sure physical is included in your portfolio mix).

Cavan Man (05/26/02; 19:25:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 76612)
Andy Smith
Mr. Smith is likely referring to the paper proxies for physical ownership. This, I think, is a real possibility. Further, since Mr. Smith (maybe a shill) is no fool, he likely has a closet full of bullion.

DOWNUNDER (05/26/02; 19:17:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 76611)
RE PLACER DOME - - - - Hedger OR non-hedger ?
A company here in Oz that I am invested in (AOR) is now subject to a takeover bid from Placer Dome.(Thanks to the earlier posters who alerted me to the takeover as I always read USA Gold before checking the local bourse.)

Btm line is that I was going to get out of AOR soon anyway as they are quite heavily hedged & the Mgn director in my opinion is no real friend of gold.Because of the takeover bid shares were suspended on the ASX until 10 minutes ago and are currently @ $4.54 --up $1.06 (30.5%)

Can someone please tell me what Placers reputation is as far as hedging is concerned -and are they held in high regard by gold investors or not? TYIA



Old Yeller (05/26/02; 19:16:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 76610)
"Accursed Hunger for Gold"
http://in.biz.yahoo.com/020526/17/1ox4t.html

Could it be a accursed hunger to protect one's wealth?

If that is the case,why then,is it accursed?

Note the writer makes mention of yearly derivative trading totals;260,000 tonnes or double the estimated total of all gold ever produced.

Something's accursed in this equation,don't think it's physical gold,though.

mikal (05/26/02; 18:50:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 76609)
Media plays up terrorism at their master's behest
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=businessnews&StoryID=101...

 
Economic Optimism Expected to Buoy Stocks
May 26, 2002 09:10 AM ET   By Chelsea Emery
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Look for investors to dip their toes back into stocks in this holiday-shortened week as bets on an improving U.S. economy pull cash out of safe-haven pools of gold and bonds.
Don't look for any of that cash to come out of defense stocks, though, as Wall Street stays on guard for potential attacks following warnings from Vice President Dick Cheney that another strike is "almost certain," and as tensions in the Middle East remain white hot.
And while most fund managers expect low interest rates and resilient consumer spending to buoy stocks in coming weeks, lower-than-expected consumer confidence data or an attack could send investors scrambling for the shore again.
"I feel an upswell coming, but it's being camouflaged by warnings of another terrorist attack, bombings in the Middle East and India and Pakistan's nuclear capability," said Ned Riley, chief investment strategist for State Street Global Advisors, which oversees $60 billion. "But if we get through the weekend without significant events, the markets will pick up positive momentum."
The four-day week will bring scant corporate profit reports to guide Wall Street. Retailer Costco Wholesale Corp. COST.O is among the few companies scheduled to reveal quarterly results.
In the vacuum, investors will scrutinize a raft of economic data, including consumer confidence figures, expected on Tuesday, and productivity statistics, expected on Friday...
.....But should more time pass without strikes in the United States, stocks should resume an upswing, fund managers and traders said.
That is, of course, unless economic data points to weakness in consumer spending or corporate productivity.
"Any substantial deterioration could spook the markets," said John Orrico, manager of the $11 million Arbitrage Fund. "But my sense is that they'll hold onto their (higher) trends and the markets won't be too disturbed." ...
.....Interest rates at 40-year lows and some improved profit reports from companies as diverse as doughnut chain Krispy Kreme Doughnuts Inc. KKD.N and housewares retailer Williams-Sonoma Inc. WSM.N have helped boost enthusiasm for stocks.
"You want to own stocks when the economy is improving," said Simon, who expects the S&P 500 to rise by mid-to high-single digits by the end of the year. "Absent terrorism fears, the market would be higher." ...(click link for more) Who can argue against doughnut prosperity? "Enthusiasm"? More like paralysis. This article simply bears no resemblance to objective economic reporting or analysis. "Attack", "War", "Disturb", "Terror", stand between us and our easy riches, not the real world. Americans are getting conditioned for something treacherous.


YGM (05/26/02; 18:47:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 76608)
Andy Smith........
Funny Maybe........(but not if you're on the losin end of believing him)
But he and those like him are no different or less damaging to the financial well being of many than are the lying. double talking Wall St. Analysts, Brokerage Houses etc being sued and investigated...With all due respect to Mr Smiths' successes in getting to where he is (well-off?) and
he obviously must have some right to his soap box, but his damage to the Gold World is not to be taken lightly...
Just as I feel for Martin Armstrong as a pawn for higher culprits, I also know he caused an incredible amount of damage to the finances of others thru PEI etc.....People such as Smith should be seen for what they mold and create not just their humor or flair. The man lies thru half truths to create a distrust of Gold Investment and consequently molds others who may trust his judgement......

No liquidity in Gold?....Right 20-40 M/oz/p/d at LBMA!
Gold is not tradeable?....Since when!
A Stampede of CB selling?....Where's that at!
New supply Gold is residual?....Right when 10,000+ T Deficit

He suggested that the main reason gold miners had reduced hedging was "a much reduced incentive to do it and much reduced ability to do anything at all because of the lack of market depth."

Ok..I'm sure the Hedge buy backs have naught to do with the likes of ABX losing 21 Mill per 1$ rise in Gold value, and the woes of Ashanti and potential collapse of others...

Lack of market depth...Funny most Gold Stocks and Funds are up 70-100% over 12 mo...And this with many manipulative forces and Gold Bashers like Smith working overtime...

Gold would go the way of Silver and be worth $68.00 p/oz...
Ok Andy now tell the audience how Silver has been manipulated for over twenty years, hence the $5.00 price tag. Don't tell them it should trade at +/- $50.00 and at historical ratios that would put Gold at $400.00 to $500.00

Anyways these are just a few points where the likes of Mr Andy Smith are concerned...HE AND HIS ILK need to be taken to task once and for all. Enough is enough. I will never again sit back listen to such drivel/lies about Gold w/o speaking out....
And I did reply to the previously posted News Article.

Regards....YGM.


goldquest (05/26/02; 18:39:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 76607)
Fasten Your Seatbelts
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1152741
Time to dump the worthless paper!

Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 17:59:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 76606)
REPOST for Sir OZ
Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 10:28:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 76590)
DUPLICATE Entry NOTICE !!!
OZ (05/26/02; 04:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 76575)
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Husky (05/26/02; 17:58:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 76605)
Zorro Chapman and SA stocks
Good grief. Bring that cash home to the US folks, spend it on shares in US mines. They won't confiscate mines in the US. The very thought of the Fed owning a gold mine is so far from any known reality that it's patently obvious that the US mines are more secure. And as far as confiscating things goes, nor would they ever think of confiscating gold bullion in the US. This kind of thing only happens in third world countries run by 'socialists'. Sheesh, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 17:53:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 76604)
Lady Graefin's Question ( you are soooo smart)
Nr., Dame Graefin, die nicht total korrekt ist. BB und I sind freelancers und haben Berufe, die wir als Berater zu den spezifischen Industrien bearbeiten. Wir können etwas Dienstleistungen zu USAGOLD zur Verfügung stellen, aber empfangen einen GEHALTSSCHECK ab schon.
<;-)

Chrusos (05/26/02; 16:45:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 76603)
Jimbo & Robert Chapman
Chapman also says the US is a fascist state. He is a conspiracist par excellence and makes Le Pen look like a raving pink liberal. My understanding is that in many nations such as Australia (and maybe the US and Canada) that the state owns all mineral rights until granted.

South Africa has made a miracle transition and they wealth has to be shared. Our government has been exceptionally responsible as to how this is implemented. There is absolutely no threat to ownership. Where mineral rights have remained undeveloped they may be forfeited back to the state. If FW De Klerk had the same attitude as Chapman – Mandela the head of the ANC would still in prison or maybe we would have had civil war in SA.

Any gold investor who ignores SA mines does so at his peril – 60% of all gold ever mined came from under our soil and the results and wealth that came form this are still very apparent. When the US succumbs to its trade deficit, Himalayan derivatives, overvalued shares and currencies South Africa will suddenly become a haven of stability and prosperity.

The US Gov. forcibly confiscated all citizens gold – in my opinion that is extremely unlikely in South Africa which in any case doesn't have the mechanisms of control that are available in the US were another abusive Clinton type govt. to come into power with an anti gold agenda.

Just trying to give the other side of the equation

Best wishes

Chrusos


The Invisible Hand (05/26/02; 16:22:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 76602)
"All paper will burn"
Jimbo,
You asked in msg#: 76591 Anyone else alarmed?
Good morning, everyone. While perusing another gold site, I came across the post below. As I own considerable shares in S. African gold mines, I have to take this warning with some alarm. Having started my gold investing only four months ago, I don't have sufficient background to know whether the SA mineral rights war is a cause for great concern...or just another issue designed to scare me and other gold investors into selling. Would someone please comment. Thanks.

I'm not alarmed, I'm happy to see that one of Another's prophecies, i.e. that all paper will burn, is coming true.
My two cents: sell ALL your paper NOW, buy the physical thing.

Boilermaker (05/26/02; 16:07:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 76601)
PDG- AOR aquisition

Sunday May 26, 5:29 pm Eastern Time
Reuters Company News
Placer Dome makes A$2 bln bid to acquire AurionGold

VANCOUVER, British Columbia, May 26 (Reuters) - Gold mining company Placer Dome Inc.(Toronto:PDG.TO - News; NYSE:PDG - News) on Sunday offered to acquire rival AurionGold Ltd. (Australia:AOR.AX - News) for about A$2 billion ($1.11 billion) in stock, aiming to become a leading worldwide gold producer as gold prices continue to mount.

Placer Dome said the unsolicited offer, announced in a public statement on Sunday, would exchange 17.5 of its shares for each 100 AurionGold shares. Based on closing prices Friday, that would value the Australian firm at A$4.51 per share, representing a more than 30 percent premium to the company's closing price Friday.

Harmony Gold Mining Co. Ltd., AurionGold's leading shareholder, has agreed to support the bid and vote its 9.8 percent stake in favor of the acquisition, Placer Gold said.

The merger, if accepted, would create the world's No. 5 gold mining company and Australia's second-largest gold producing firm, with more than 1.2 million ounces of gold mined annually, Placer Dome said. Global production is expected to be 3.8 million ounces.

Comment,
The gold games are getting interesting. Players are placing their bets. I'd like to see where Andy Smith's money is.

Graefin (05/26/02; 15:54:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 76600)
Ricn...Your're welcome!
Wow! You're in construction! You talk like you're a brain - you know like you're up there on the pedistal with Black Blade, Town Crier, Grandalf the White and a few others! But my guess is a few of them work for USA gold. Ist das richtig?? Or maybe they're just way-smart too! Maybe there is hope for me after all!
Have a great weekend all...and as usual...it's past my bedtime in this corner of the world! Tschüss!
- Gräfin

OZ (05/26/02; 15:47:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 76599)
PDG-AOR
Placer Dome making a 2B$aud for Auriongold. I have no more details than that.

R Powell (05/26/02; 15:40:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 76598)
Less selling, not more buying
YGM, Andy Smith may be partially right. POG has been rising. This indicated that there has been more buying pressure than selling. With fewer forward sales and low interest rates ending any more gold carry trade, there may be much less selling. But with the unwinding of paper hedges and renewed investor interest worldwide, I don't think buying pressure is going to disappear. Open interest numbers are increasing. This does not confirm Smith's view but agrues against it.
I remember reading or hearing on a television documentary that after a particularily bad (down) stock market day in 1929 or 1930, one disoriented trader was heard to say, "It wasn't too much selling, there just weren't ANY buyers!" What might be the reverse for an out of control bull market? I always enjoy Andy Smith. Who says there's no humor in economics?
Happy Long Weekend
Rich

R Powell (05/26/02; 15:22:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 76597)
Graefin / forum
Thanks for telling me that you've ordered the book. In 1996 I recieved a pamphlet in the mail explaining how a forune could be made in commodities. It sparked my interest. I vaguely knew that commodities were crops like soybeans and such but that was about the sum of my knowledge. My economic knowledge went no further than trying to balance the checkbook once a month. I was also totally computer ignorant at that time so books were my only source of information. My work background is construction which sometimes puts brain activity to sleep. Anyway, I've read many but can only recommend a few. This is one of the best.
Like so many of us, I've learned to keep my mouth shut among family and friends concerning this subject which I find so completely fascinating and which others simply do not want to hear about. I would indeed be isolated without forum discussions, some e-mail contacts and my wife's (bless her) encouragement.
That someone would order and read a book on my say-so is really cool. Thanks to all.
Rich



YGM (05/26/02; 15:08:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 76596)
ANDY SMITH.......Gold @ $68.00 p/oz........Ha Ha Ha Ha ......ROTFLMAO
http://www.mips1.net/C2256BC2002A8603/UNID/LCLY-5AHPLD?OpenDocument
'Gold run a load of bull' - analyst

By: Ken Gooding


Posted: 2002/05/26 Sun 20:24 ZE2 | © Miningweb 1997-2002


LONDON - The present bull market for gold will not stop the "stampede" by central banks and other official holders that has seen them cutting their bullion stocks substantially, warned Andy Smith, analyst at Mitsui Global Precious Metals in London. Ironically, central bank disinvestment from gold was likely to accelerate as gold miners reduce hedging and sell less bullion themselves.
"The exit for the central banks has been widened," Smith told delegates.

He pointed out that AngloGold was closing its hedge book (effectively buying bullion) at about the same speed at the Swiss National Bank was opening its vaults and selling its gold stocks. "Central banks were a sponge for mine output for 150 years, now the boot is on the other hoof." Smith wondered whether delegates would be willing to bet on AngloGold's buying strength being greater that the Swiss Bank's selling strength.

Smith agreed that perhaps the best hope for gold was a revival of official interest in bullion. However, he suggested this was now impossible. The lack of liquidity and market depth "means gold cannot function as a bona fide reserve asset. Gold is no longer tradable, so what use is it [to central banks]?"

As usual, it is impossible to convey the flavour and sheer vitality with which Smith delivers his – for the gold bulls – gloomy messages. He bombards his audience's eyes and ears with jokes, literary quotations, big chunks of eye-opening original research and some appalling puns, all presented at a breathless pace. To make things even more entertaining, Smith takes great care will the illustrations he selects. This presentation included, for example, a fetching photo of Kylie Monogue, a portrait of the Mona Lisa and a hideous Salvador Dali painting as well as part of a menu from the Buckhorn Restaurant in Denver offering Rock Mountain Oysters with horseradish dippin' sauce (a joke for the miners among the delegates).

However, under all the ebullience, Smith tackled some serious issues and came to some conclusions that will not have delighted the gold bulls present.

For example, he insisted that the present bull market so far resulted from "less selling, not more buying." All the excitement in the market gave the impression a great deal was going on but, in fact, there was less and less activity – as clearly indicated by London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) statistics showing volume had been falling away. This helped the market in the short-term because it meant a little money went a long way.

Smith dismissed the idea that mergers among gold producers would have a beneficial impact on future bullion prices. Even the biggest producer would never have the market power that De Beers had in diamonds or OPEC in the oil business. Neither did it matter much if gold mines closed. "New [gold] supply is marginal to second-hand inventory. Who cares who owns it? Second-hand supply dominates. New supply is a residual," Smith insisted.

He suggested that the main reason gold miners had reduced hedging was "a much reduced incentive to do it and much reduced ability to do anything at all because of the lack of market depth."

To conclude, Smith returned to one of his favourite themes – the possibility that eventually gold would go the way of silver. For many decades central banks used silver as their main physical asset but abandoned the "silver standard" in the late 19th century. "Silver fluctuated since then about a commodity price parity, despite strong official buying from time to time," he pointed out – and despite the efforts of the Hunt brothers and Warren Buffet when they bought big quantities of physical silver. The central banks started seriously to sell their gold stocks late in the 20th century, Smith pointed out. If, as a consequence, gold "catches down" with silver, the price would eventually settle at US$68 an ounce.


****With such utter mindless anti-gold rhetoric as this Andy I think you must have an extremely powerful motive to spew such "BULL"....What do you have in common with another guy who used to sound off like you? His name is Martin Armstrong, and he had no use for the barbarous relic either...Til we all found out otherwise! What will we find out about you...A Gold bust of JP Morgan? A few Mill in Roman Gold Coins?...Truth will prevail you nutcase....YGM.







YGM (05/26/02; 14:41:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 76595)
Leigh...Jimbo...
Nationalization of gold Mines....
2-3 yrs back I asked FOA if the over use of questionable environmental laws which were causing hindrance and grief to the Placer Gold Mining Industry here in Canada could be a veiled attempt at suppression of production by Gov or worse, a portend of things to come......"Another" replied directly that I should not rule out Gov intervention nor 'Nationalization' of Gold Mining when not "IF" the VOG became extreme........FWIW.

Just Another/FOA reason for "NOT" holding paper past a certain level. Others included after extreme rise in VOG were defaults, bankruptcy etc......YGM

barnacle bill (05/26/02; 14:36:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 76594)
...more grist for the mill
Yellow Metal msg#76573
To my knowledge, there has not yet been an investigation on purchases of large volumes of puts on airline stocks just prior to Sept.11.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men..."

Graefin (05/26/02; 13:46:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 76593)
RPowell...
Dear Rich,
Hedges, Cornflakes, Farmer Brown, hmmmmm! What in the heck does breakfast have to do with Soybeans and landscaping methods used in Farmer Brown's yard??

JUST KIDDING!!!!! I'm getting the drift! :) I also ordered that one book..., um, "Winter Flakes All." Maybe I'll get smarter! That would be cool!
Danke für alles!
Peace
- Gräfin

Leigh (05/26/02; 11:36:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 76592)
Jimbo
FOA was always telling us about how we shouldn't invest in mines. I wonder if he was thinking about this very kind of scenario.


Jimbo (05/26/02; 10:47:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 76591)
Anyone else alarmed?
Good morning, everyone. While perusing another gold site, I came across the post below. As I own considerable shares in S. African gold mines, I have to take this warning with some alarm. Having started my gold investing only four months ago, I don't have sufficient background to know whether the SA mineral rights war is a cause for great concern...or just another issue designed to scare me and other gold investors into selling. Would someone please comment. Thanks.
--------------------------

Chapman is nobody's fool. For somone as saavy as him to make such a strong statement about the possibility of SA nationalising mines, is reason enough for me to take notice. Perhaps those who have hundreds of thousands do not mind taking the risk, but for those who do not, who have put alll their life's savings into the SA basket, I strongly advise you to take this warning seriously. AT the least, make certain you are well diversified to protect yourself against POLITICAL risk. I know that I will look further into this situation, while paying extra close attention to my stop losses. STAY ALERT.

For those who haven't read it, here is Chapman's latest warning:
The mineral rights' war has resumed in South Africa that seeks to restore all minerals' rights to the state and to introduce the controversial "use it or lose it" land rights policy.

The government wants to take mineral rights away from white businesses and give them to the blacks. The battle between the government and the Chamber of Mines is coming to a head and the government says there is no room for compromise. Minister of Minerals and Energy, Phumzile Mlomba ­ Ngcuka says that white domination of the mining industry was simply not sustainable in the "new South Africa." She criticized the fact that one white company, whose chief executive is the head of the Chamber of Mines owns 63% of the country's platinum reserves. Another white company owns 95% of diamond production and two hold 83% of total manganese reserves and others own 51% of all the country's gold. Black economic empowerment has taken precedence over foreign investors concerns or the local industry's reactions. At the end of the day the government must govern, and we shall do that.

There you have it investors. We have written over and over since 1994 that the ANC would not be happy until they have taken control of the mineral rights in South Africa. This and the financial, social, political and criminal problems do not bode well for the future. It is obvious that now since all the assets of the former white government have been dissipated, that new sources of easy income must be found. You invest in South Africa at your own risk. We refuse to invest there.'



Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 10:28:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 76590)
DUPLICATE Entry NOTICE !!!
OZ (05/26/02; 04:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 76575)
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slingshot (05/26/02; 10:06:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 76589)
Seige Engine.
Gold above $300.00 and Holding
They say that necessity is the mother of invention,but only in proper execution of thought will you succede.
Those summond by the Lord of the Castle have assembled in the great hall. The air is filled with with a great sense of
danger before them for never have workmen and stablehands been before their Lord in council.
The Lord of the Castle enters the room all becomes silent.
I want eight horses of dark color, steady and quiet in their handling. Remove all their armor and bring the breastplates to the metalworker. The stablehands dismiss themselves.
He turns to the metalworker and orders. You will make two breastplates that pikes can not pierce and that will make no noise when the horse is at full gallop. They shall give the best protection but not hinder their speed. Yes my Lord ,and the metalworker leaves the hall. He turns to the Captain of the Guard and asks, How far can our archers place a flaming
arrow? One hundred yards with accuracy my Lord, is his reply. I want five archers that can place their arrows. Choose them yourself. As for the Knights of the horses selected, tell them they will not dress in armor for speed and silence is important.
Also I need four containers filled with oil that will break for I plan to set the trebuchet aflame before it brings down the tower. There is a impression in the field less than one hundred yards away from their lines, enough to hide five men with arrows. I will show them tomorrow and they will go in the dark of night.
The horsemen will follow after enough time given the archers and slowly make their way across the field.When they past the archers they will charge in the manner they always have, only at the last momment to form a column of two behind the
horses with breastplates and punch a hole in the Goldbugs lines and
break the containers with oil on that machine. The archers
will set it ablaze. The Goldbugs will have nothing to rally around and they will shrink in numbers.

A messenger enters the hall. My Lord, the tower has cracks
running along its buttesses.

Tomorrow night, while the moonlite is still dim.


Kodie (05/26/02; 09:59:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 76588)
Price of gold contest
$$$$ 335.60 $$$$

I believe gold will move up a few dollars a week through June. I think we may see a correction early in the month, but only a few dollars and not for long. I would personally prefer to see go rise a little each day, rather than big moves of 5 or 10 dollars.

Cometose (05/26/02; 09:54:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 76587)
REMEMBRANCE DAY
I read the posts of many relating to remembering the fallen;
and it occurs to me that the honor and the valour and the commitment of those that have died has not been in vain ....
in spite of the fact that there have been men in authority on the peacful shores of the U S who have been dishonorable, who have vowed commitment to no one but themselves in their seeking out self fulfillment exclusively, who have exhibited not courage...who were unseen in their activities and unknown for their true nature, who used their authority and power to promulgate objectives and vision that fullfilled their own selfish desires, utilizing the Constitution as their authority. Why has this evil be enabled.....I thought...
because the voice of the people ( the right of the people to freedom of speech ) has always been louder and more potent than the voice of the representatives that are elected by us .....We, the people still have a job to do to ensure that the jobs our servicemen and women have done and the sacrifice they have made and will make bears life giving fruit into the future forever for freedom...
that job that we have to do is to confess or verbally affirm a vision repeatedly continually and faithfully and daily ( within the parameter of our blood given right of freedom of speech) ... in masse that will change the world for the better and enable the world to see the beauty inside the dream that is America and savor a sweetness which makes all the world enamored and drawn to the goodness that the dream of America represents....The beauty and the sweetness that is America has been smudged by an image that has been ascribed to her because of irresponsible acts of authority ....WE , the people have to establish a new record of what America is with our voices to defeat the image that is being ascribed to us globally, so the masses are not decieved....
so that the hope that does spring eternal continues to do so .......and that the flames that are set inside the hearts of the People,,, eventually set ablaze the imaginations of the hearts of the peoples of the nations in all the world to what life can be on this beautiful planet.....

Perhaps we have all gotten so caught up in the affairs of this world , that we have lost our purpose of setting vision
and bringing that vision to pass...(remember the vision of our representatives is primarily based on the next election)
preoccupied with what??????? If life for the future doesn't improve because of what we do now ,,,, whatever we are doing now will be in vain (we must continually hold onto vision in addition and in priority to all of our daily responsibilities)...the People have to speak a new vision into being by continually letting it spring from their lips....If/ when we all agree what that vision is ..... and unanimously confess it .... we change the world...
that happened in the 60's , everyone came together....
I Pray that in Post 9/11 we all come together in unity and with vision that makes the 21st Century a new and higher horizon than humanity has known


Rockgrabber (05/26/02; 09:49:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 76586)
hedging
I wonder if or how many of the gold producers that have sold future production have hedged their short gold positions with just more calls. With todays accounting tricks anything goes. I could see ABX having sold short gold, and then just buying calls to cover the short instead of buying back and covering their shorts. Its a just paper untill the real game starts. That would be bad to sell the market your real gold, and then cover yourself for the gold you have sold in the future (in case it rises) buy buying papaer promises from a bank with no gold to cover. I dont know.

nickel62 (05/26/02; 09:20:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 76585)
Gold price quess
$$$$317$$$$

nickel62 (05/26/02; 09:16:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 76584)
THE Atorney General of NY has once again taken the noteriety and the money and bagged the constituents of his state and the long term interests of those he claimed to be aiding...perhaps the lowest scum is those not who bilk the public but those public servants who claim to be enforcing the rules but are only really looking for a little publicity and a chance to blackmail the industry for campaign funds.
http://www.forbes.com/2002/05/22/0522topnews.html
Snippet:
The most inconsequential aspect is the establishment of a committee to insure that research reports are "objective." As every research report dutifully lists numbers and none has ever been seen to explicitly admit bias, it's hard to imagine any report failing this pathetic test.

The agreement also lets Merrill off the hook in two important ways. First, it does not require that Merrill admit to any wrongdoing. This aspect, though it may have been expected, means that the agreement cannot easily be used by investors who are seeking to recover losses they claim were caused by biased research reports.

But more important--and less noticed--is that the attorney general has agreed to "maintain the confidentiality" of Merrill's documents. This provision may be standard, too. But its clear intent is to force any investor who thinks he has a claim to start over and generate his own evidence.

Information Spitzer has made public will help such investors in a general way. But they will have to find specific statements indicating conflicts--which won't be easy. His agreeing to hold back information from the public unless forced to do otherwise by New York's freedom of information law is a huge boon to Merrill.

The second sign that the Merrill settlement is less consequential than it seems is that it is explicitly superceded by other reforms already in motion. One reform that seems promising is forcing research reports to disclose what percentage of the bank's research reports include "buy" recommendations and what percentage recommend "sell" or "hold."

This way, if a bank says buy all the time and almost never says sell (as has been the case for Wall Street in general), that fact will show up right on the reports, which should lead to change.

This idea has already been adopted by the National Association of Securities Dealers and other self-regulating bodies that govern Wall Street. As a result, the Merrill agreement states that it applies only until one of Wall Street's self-regulating bodies initiates the same rule. The requirement that Merrill disclose on research reports its investment banking deals also lasts only until new rules already enacted come into effect in the next few months.

It is an article of faith among regulators that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Spitzer's light was penetrating. But he shined it where the sun was fairly bright already--and in some ways let Merrill back into the cool shade.




Gandalf the White (05/26/02; 08:59:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 76583)
The COMEX GOLD JUNE '02 Settlement Price GUESSING CONTEST
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/tools/guideandsignup.html
TA, TA, TA, TAAA, TAAA, TAAAAAAAA, TAAA, TAAA, TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

DUBLICATE Entry NOTICE !!!
---
OZ (05/26/02; 04:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 76575)
(No Subject)
$$$$325.50$$$$
---
Sorry Sir Oz, THIS Entry was "taken" !
Please check the List below and RE-Enter. Thanks!
<;-)

====
Hear Ye. . . .Hear Ye. . . . A Call to Contest. . .
Under the auspices of Sir MK, our USAGOLD Forum host, Centennial Precious Metals, Inc., is requesting a test of your thinking, predicting and posting skills to occur until midnight (MDT Denver, CO time) on Thursday, May 30th to Guess the SETTLEMENT Price of the June COMEX GOLD Contract on Friday, May 31, 2002. Prizes are one Swiss 20 Franc Helvetia (0.1867 ounces of GOLD) to the WINNER, and a one ounce Silver Maple Leaf to EACH of the Runners-up.

This is also an "Invitation" to all UNREGISTERED LURKERS to submit your request to be able to "POST" by following the instructions at the ABOVE LINK, and THEN be able to enter the CONTEST!!!

---
THE RULES
1) The winner is the closest to the Settlement price of the most active
JUNE GOLD Contract (GC2M) on the date of Friday the 31st of May, 2002.
2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths ! (Such as 543.2)
3) "Guesses" shall be enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs"
so as to be OFFICIAL ! Such as $$$$ 543.2 $$$$
4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady and once that "Guess"
has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !!
FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".
5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock
in Denver strikes 12 Midnight on Thursday, MAY 30th.
6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY -- A short "WHY" discussion
paragraph MUST accompany each "Guess".
===

9th UPDATE on POG Guessing Contest ! <;-)

FIFTY VALID ENTRIES in Contest to Date (sorted by Price) !!
====
$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (05/24/02; 05:39:59MT msg#: 76471

$$$$ 440.2 $$$$ goldquest (05/22/02; 14:17:02MT msg#: 76261

$$$$ 360.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (05/24/02; 12:29:56MT msg#: 76497

$$$$ 355.9 $$$$ darkhorse (05/22/02; 21:25:11MT msg#: 76317

$$$$ 354.0 $$$$ Henri (05/24/02; 09:18:51MT msg#: 76490

$$$$ 352.5 $$$$ White Hills (05/22/02; 19:23:20MT msg#: 76300

$$$$ 348.0 $$$$ White Rose (05/25/02; 22:03:47MT msg#: 76569

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (5/25/02; 06:23:45MT msg#: 76533

$$$$ 342.0 $$$$ neer-do-well (05/24/02; 08:20:19MT msg#: 76484

$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (05/22/02; 16:32:28MT msg#: 76278

$$$$ 337.5 $$$$ wiley (05/23/02; 10:49:37MT msg#: 76386

$$$$ 336.6 $$$$ zorro (5/23/02; 16:42:43MT msg#: 76420

$$$$ 336.0 $$$$ Creosote (05/22/02; 19:38:52MT msg#: 76303

$$$$ 334.3 $$$$ Believer (05/22/02; 16:19:37MT msg#: 76277

$$$$ 333.3 $$$$ Tevye (05/22/02; 13:58:29MT msg#: 76258

$$$$ 331.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (05/24/02; 22:40:53MT msg#: 76522

$$$$ 329.4 $$$$ Clint H (5/23/02; 19:18:44MT msg#: 76436

$$$$ 328.4 $$$$ Slowman (05/24/02; 07:37:27MT msg#: 76479

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ timbervision (05/23/02; 09:17:25MT msg#: 76369

$$$$ 327.2 $$$$ vermillion (5/23/02; 19:19:38MT msg#: 76437

$$$$ 327.0 $$$$ Solomon Weaver (05/25/02; 21:59:46MT msg#: 76568
$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ Achilles (05/24/02; 04:29:15MT msg#: 76466
$$$$ 326.8 $$$$ Hipplebeck (05/23/02; 06:07:51MT msg#: 76357

$$$$ 326.6 $$$$ slingshot (05/24/02; 19:24:09MT msg#: 76519

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ Broken Tee (5/23/02; 15:38:46MT msg#: 76416

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ steady (05/24/02; 15:26:22MT msg#: 76503

$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ Around The Corner (5/23/02; 02:17:38MT msg#: 76350
$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ THX-1138 (05/22/02; 16:45:28MT msg#: 76279
$$$$ 324.8 $$$$ Yellow Metal (05/22/02; 16:51:55MT msg#: 76280

$$$$ 324.6 $$$$ Graefin (05/22/02; 13:33:35MT msg#: 76257

$$$$ 324.2 $$$$ Rock (05/22/02; 13:06:37MT msg#: 76254

$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ VanRip (05/22/02; 21:58:11MT msg#: 76323

$$$$ 322.6 $$$$ misetich (5/23/02; 03:05:56MT msg#: 76351

$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ RobertG (5/23/02; 19:23:59MT msg#: 76438

$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Jimbo (05/22/02; 14:31:21MT msg#: 76264

$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (5/23/02; 03:47:11MT msg#: 76353

$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Trapper (05/22/02; 17:52:38MT msg#: 76284

$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ YGM (05/22/02; 13:29:47MT msg#: 76256

$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Houston (5/25/02; 12:57:47MT msg#: 76551

$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ EagleOne (05/22/02; 21:26:49MT msg#: 76318

$$$$ 318.2 $$$$ onlychild (05/22/02; 15:10:37MT msg#: 76269

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ balzac (05/23/02; 07:33:25MT msg#: 76363

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Tommy P (05/23/02; 07:00:52MT msg#: 76361

$$$$ 316.5 $$$$ cwa (05/24/02; 08:04:10MT msg#: 76481

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ luckypierre (05/25/02; 15:52:53MT msg#: 76555

$$$$ 315.4 $$$$ ausome (05/22/02; 18:51:28MT msg#: 76296

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (05/22/02; 17:51:17MT msg#: 76283

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Pippin (05/23/02; 07:14:36MT msg#: 76362

$$$$ 313.5 $$$$ Topaz (5/25/02; 08:44:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 76541

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ AUtistic (05/22/02; 17:50:02MT msg#: 76282

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ kludge (05/23/02; 08:11:29MT msg#: 76365
===
<;-)



Canuck (05/26/02; 08:18:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 76582)
Barge crashes into and knocks down 400 ft. bridge
over Arkansas River in Oklahoma.

CNN.

mikal (05/26/02; 08:01:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 76581)
US gov't warnings continue apace
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/0,1113,2-10_1190451,00.html


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Print story
26/05/2002 11:12  - (SA)  
E-mail story to a friend

Watch out for planes, FBI warns
Maxim Kniazkov
Related Articles
US warns citizens on travel
Terrorists turn to scuba diving
Tight security greets US team
Washington - The FBI added on Saturday to a flurry of recent terrorism alerts by unveiling an "intelligence update" that urges US law enforcement agencies to watch out for terrorists using planes for attacks.
News of the update came on the heels of a new security warning from an agency regulating the nation's nuclear power plants that was certain to stoke fears among thousands of Americans, who hit the road on the Memorial Day weekend, traditionally one of the busiest travel periods of the year.
"It was an intelligence update that went to law enforcement, not for public dissemination, on the 23rd, just reiterating that fact that airlines and airline companies should remain vigilant that terrorists might use airplanes for attacks," explained Federal Bureau of Investigation spokesperson Steven Berry.
He said the document was urging local authorities to pay particular attention to "smaller planes" that could be used for terrorist strikes.
Importance played down
But he played down the importance of the document, describing it as "not new" and designed primarily to "remind" law enforcement officials around the country to be vigilant.
Just late on Friday, the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission sent out an advisory to all 103 US nuclear power plants, urging them to step up vigilance.
NRC spokesperson Diane Screnci confirmed the existence of the alert but refused to disclose any details.
"We are not giving the specifics of any of our advisories," she said.
The commission has already issued more than two dozen security warnings since the September 11 terrorist attacks and the US nuclear plants "are already at the highest level of security," Screnci said.
The new announcements joined a slew of "warnings," "alerts," and "advisories" already dumped into the public domain by various gover

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  Australasia
  
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Carte Blanche
26/05/2002 11:12  - (SA)  
Watch out for planes, FBI warns
Maxim Kniazkov
Washington - The FBI added on Saturday to a flurry of recent terrorism alerts by unveiling an "intelligence update" that urges US law enforcement agencies to watch out for terrorists using planes for attacks.....
....."It was an intelligence update that went to law enforcement, not for public dissemination, on the 23rd, just reiterating that fact that airlines and airline companies should remain vigilant that terrorists might use airplanes for attacks," explained Federal Bureau of Investigation spokesperson Steven Berry.
He said the document was urging local authorities to pay particular attention to "smaller planes" that could be used for terrorist strikes.
vigilant.....
Just late on Friday, the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission sent out an advisory to all 103 US nuclear power plants, urging them to step up vigilance.
NRC spokesperson Diane Screnci confirmed the existence of the alert but refused to disclose any details.
"We are not giving the specifics of any of our advisories," she said.
The commission has already issued more than two dozen security warnings since the September 11 terrorist attacks..... - Sapa-AFP .....click link for more

 
 


R Powell (05/26/02; 07:09:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 76580)
Jimbo
Just read your 76557. Good for you, man!
My brother-in-law put almost everything he has in a mutual fund recommended by a friend. He has no idea where they have invested and refuses to consider that his money is at risk. He says he doesn't have the time to investigate. Translation: he's too lazy to think.
May I suggest William Gallacher's "Winner Take All" that I just refered to when discussing hedging? I'm sure you'd enjoy and learn from it.
Gallacher quotes a line from Bob Dylan,

Don't put your hope in ungodly men, or

Be a slave to what somebody else believes.

If you need somebody you can trust,

Trust yourself.
---Bob Dylan--

Happy Memorial Holiday
Rich

R Powell (05/26/02; 06:52:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 76579)
Graefin // Hedging
Another definition of hedging from Gallacher's "Winner Take All",

Commodity futures exchanges came into being in the last century for purely economic reasons: to permit producers and consumers to contract to deliver and receive specified quantities of a commodity at some date in the future, but at a price determined in the present. Such forward buying and selling, or hedging as it was known, allowed for more stable economic activity, by removing to some extent price volatility as one of the unknowns in the business planning equation."

With this set up, farmer Brown can sell when the price is at least high enough to insure a profit for his corn and Kellogg's can insure a continuous supply of corn for Corn Flakes at a predetermined price. If there just happens to be no buyers when farmer Brown wants to sell, there are always speculators who will take the long side and buy his corn. Likewise Kelloggs will always find sellers, whether they be farmers or speculators.
FWIW, Gallacher's book is very good both as a source of knowledge and as entertainment as in funny. It can be had in paperback and is not expensive. It reads easily.
Happy Weekend
Rich

Graefin (05/26/02; 05:30:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 76578)
Golden Bear...
Wow! I guess I already knew what hedging was, just didn't know what to call it! Danke! That derivative thingy still messes with my brain, but now I think I at least have a clue! Golden Bear, thanks! And have a wonderful weekend!
Gräfin


Golden Bear (05/26/02; 05:17:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 76577)
Graefin (msg#: 76574)
Greetings Graefin,

Firstly, there are no stupid questions, just a lack of knowledge on a particular topic until said knowledge is acquired.

Derivatives are financial tools which are "derived" from basic investment vehicles: for example, call and put options that you already know are tools derived from their underlying asset classes which can be stocks amongst others. Futures, swaps, forward contracts are also derivatives.

Hedging is the act of using these derivative tools to protect against adverse movement of your financial asset against you: Lets say you bought 100 shares of Gold Fields stock, and upon further reflection, you became concerned that the stock may decline significantly. To protect your investment, you could purchase a put option on Gold Fields, which would increase in value as the value of the stock dropped. When done correctly, the gain on the put option would cancel out the loss of value of the stock.

This is in direct contrast to speculating outright using these same tools for profit. The tools were actually designed as risk management tools - hedging your bets as they say....

Hope this helps,

GB.

The Invisible Hand (05/26/02; 05:15:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 76576)
Let the party continue!
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_02/hamilton052402.html

Zelotes writes:
Gold investors have been tearfully trudging through a long, hot, parched, brutal desert of scorn, ridicule, and losses for what feels like eons now.

Houston wrote in
(5/25/02; 12:57:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 76551)
First time writer:
First off, as a disabled Vietnam veteran I do appreciate the Memorial Day posts. Too bad that day is viewed by the vast majority as "only" another holiday.

The question that your child will always be asking (when deciding the extent to which he can be creative) is "how much mockery, criticism and failure can I tolerate?" This is the same question all creative adults ask (SCHANK, R., Coloring Outside the Lines – Raising a Smarter Kid by Breaking All the Rules, HarperCollins, 2000, p.109)

Today, I raise my glass to all disabled posters on this Forum (and I'm one of them) whose life experience with ridicule and mockery made them (us) not afraid to invest in gold.

OZ (05/26/02; 04:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 76575)
(No Subject)
$$$$325.50$$$$
Because that's what it is going to be. Gold price increas will be 10.00$ per month until hedgebooks blow out and then the moon!

Graefin (05/26/02; 02:04:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 76574)
All...time to ask some stupid questions!!!
Imagine that! The Great and Powerful Gräfin doesn't know all! hehehehehe! So...need to ask a few questions. The CORRECT answer will be greatly appreciated!
Okay...I understand what calls and puts are, but what in the heck is hedging and derivatives??? I keep scratchin' my head and the only thing that is getting me is a bald spot. :( And please...I am not a rocket scientist and my brain capacity is limited (um, short attention span too). My mother tongue is ENGLISH so please don't muddy the waters with big words I have to look up! Vielen Dank für alles!
Peace!
- Gräfin

Yellow Metal (05/26/02; 02:00:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 76573)
This one's odd . . lot's of grist for the mill here
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/C,C/20020525/wxinsi?hub=homeBN&tf=tgam%252Frealtime%252Ffullstory.html&cf=tgam/realtime/config-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=wxinsi&date=20020525&archive=RTGAM&site=Front&ad_page_name=breakingnews
Little bit of everything in this story.
snippit

A popular U.S. short-seller arrested on charges of insider-trading and racketeering may have known about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, a prosecutor in San Diego said yesterday.

Amr (Anthony) Elgindy, 34, called his broker on Sept. 10 and asked him to liquidate his children's $300,000 (U.S.) trust account

and this

Mr. Elgindy ran Insidetruth.com (now defunct), a popular Web site for short sellers; AnthonyPacific.com (also not in operation), a subscription e-mail newsletter; and Pacific Equity Investigations, a San Diego-based company dedicated to stopping improper on-line investing.

and this

the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation raided his $2.2-million mansion near San Diego, where they found tens of thousands of dollars in cash and gold coins.


Whole lot of scramblin goin on.



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