A "Premium" Opportunity
ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 2/26/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Waverider
(02/26/02; 23:39:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 70798)
Musings...
Black Blade ~ True...I agree with your conclusions, you're just looking at the other side of the coin as it were (keeps us on our toes). Bear US$ relative to Gold - yup - relative to the CA$ - man, don't talk to RobotGuy about that today...I'll read your Gold valuations (US$ devaluations)in a new light!
Slingshot ~ Ohhhh...that Gold should be cheaper in the land of maple leaves, eh? I wonder what this guy is thinking... I've been trying also to get a few of my colleagues interested in Gold. I'm now using a different tactic - just cast the hook with a little fresh bait and wait for them to bite! I no longer discuss the merits of gold investing directly, but refer more to USAGold and the breadth and depth of discussion here..."Oh, and by the way...did I mention that the common interest is Gold...." I had a few people ask me for the URL last week.
Cavan Man/Trapper ~ I feel that I should have a grasp on this concept by now but it's still not clear to me, so thank you for asking the question Trapper. BTW - when I see you sign off (Live small) I'm reminded of Neil McCoy's song "Small up and simple down" - great song, great motto to live by!
BTW ~ Just did a quick jog to the store and picked up a copy of the Financial Post. Great publicity for GATA, "Gold Prices Tarnished Group Claims".
Cheers!
Waverider
Mr Gresham
(02/26/02; 23:09:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 70797)
Hey Pizz!
Good to see you around.
Recession/depression just plain UN-AC-CEP-TABLE! (without at least "trying" to do something about it out of the old playbook) . the idea of gov being impotent over the economy (for Repubs, too) will not fly. How are they linked in the news? Rarely anything about economy without something from gov about how they're gonna improve it.
Pres tries for the history books, not "my people had quiet and simple economic lives under my admin, despite difficulties leftover from previous" -- nope, gotta go out in a blaze, FRoosevelt made a "great pres" by wartime hardships.
So, war. Or at least war talk. Spend money, yeah, on the guys who needed political paybacks anyway.
Distract, distract, distract. Standard program. Only this time it ain't "Wag the Dog" -- it's wag the whole damn kennel.
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 23:07:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 70796)
India's Dirty Secret
http://globalarchive.ft.com/globalarchive/article.html?id=020226001331&query=gold
Snippit:
A recent survey of the quality of gold jewellery sold i n Calcutta by the Bureau of Indian Standards showed that few customers who paid for 22-carat gold jewellery actually received it. What the BIS discovered in Calcutta is also more or less the case in the seven other big Indian cities - Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore, Madras, Ahmedabad, Hyderabad and Jaipur - covered in the survey.
In each city, 15 shops were chosen randomly from which BIS officials along with representatives from local consumer action groups bought jewellery without disclosing their identities. The subsequent assaying of jewellery showed that only 14 of the 120 shops in the eight cities were truthful in their dealings. The others were passing off gold jewellery of anything between 13.5 and 18 carats as 22-carat jewellery.
According to industry officials, leaked reports of the BIS findings have already slowed purchases of gold jewellery in big Indian cities. Many city buyers will not now settle for anything but hallmarked jewellery. However, only about 275 of more than 100,000 outlets in the country stock hallmarked jewellery.
Black Blade: I brought this issue up a few days ago. However, even in the US, Americans buy overpriced 10K to 18K crap for jewelry. The typical lame excuse is that 24K jewelry is too soft. That of course is BS. Anyone who has spent time in Asia and SE Asia in particular know this. I suspect that now hallmarked jewelry will be demanded by Indians and many small Indian rip off joints will go tits up. In the long run it is likely that the higher Gold content will mean higher Gold consumption.
Gimme Shelter
(02/26/02; 22:35:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 70795)
Gold As Money
Ahhhhh music to my ears.
So I am wondering. With all of the talent that is here on this board. Believing a change is in the air, using any means you see fit,how would YOU design the new payment system?
You all know I have a keen interest. If you did not before, you do now.
Do not forget, as I challenge you to design your own personal payment system for the, GLOBE, that you will have to compete, (At least for awhile) with the regulaters. See Pay Pal and four unfriendly states.
I believe this should be very interesting to study as the only entity stopping us from this developement, is US.
In fact some already have the beginnings of this new system.
I though am looking to understand from your perspectives, how you see a new successful system initiated and then actually work for the people for a change.
Gimme Shelter
Disclaimer- This article or message was once protected by the First Amendments "Freedom of Speech".
Since the Constitution is no longer valid, I am forced to try and satisfy the US so called (PATRIOT Act) with the following.
This article or message is not intended to coerce or influence anyone inside of or outside of any government.
Rocketman
(02/26/02; 21:56:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 70794)
"Axis of evil" and other musings
Include Iran, Iraq and N. Korea but some other names were conspicously absent such as Libya, Algeria and why not China?
General Musharraf as quoted by Mark Steyn in the National Post today interestingly noted that Islamofascists are just as happy beheading American/Jewish journalists as they are killing Christians (as evidenced in Sudan, Nigeria etc) and Hindus (Kashmir). In fact Muslims, "the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most unenlightened, the deprived, and the weakest of all the human race" see themselves as victims. For these people, It is always someone elses fault! Indeed muslims seems to be at the center of most conflicts in the world today.
So why doesn't Bush simply include the entire Muslim world and any or all who attempt to sell them nucs in the "Axis of Evil".
That would sure make spot jump! . . . But what good is radioactive gold, hmmmm reminds me of a James Bond Movie.
Pizz
(02/26/02; 21:10:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 70793)
War - Or How Not To Go The Way of Japan
Financially, nearly everthing I see and read says we're about to deflate/stagnate as Japan has done the last 10 years or so.
Politically, not a pretty picture with off year elections this year, and primary elections a shade more than 2 1/2 years out.
Now, why would Bush turn his State of the Union message into a near declaration of war? Why would he target three sovergn states at the same time? We can't fight three wars simultaniously - or are we planning a really big one?
I'm beginning to think the strength in gold lately is not as financially related as we may think. We've got enough Enronitis out there along with the derivitives and debt mess to crush the dollar, bonds, banks, and SM. WE know they're propping them up, but it's starting to appear to me the PTB has also been buying time.
AGAIN - WHY PUT IRAN AND N. KOREA ON NOTICE???
It is not going to surprise anyone when we go into IRAQ. Now, I wonder what Iran and N. Korea are going to do. Just sit around and let us Blitzkreig Iraq -which I think we will try - since we don't have the resources to fight three ground wars at the same time (but we have allies - right?? - well maybe???) without going nuclear (don't like that thought). This "war on terror" has the potential to escalate rather dramatically. I just don't think Iran and N. Korea are going to "wait their turn". Would you???
Ecomomically, the K-Wave says there is no way out of this mess without a depression, and one that will make the 30's look like a cake walk. We aren't doing bailouts and it now appears Japan isn't going to do anything more than a bit of window dressing either - after Bush's visit.
What's up? A bigger, larger war than anyone expects?
Want to get unemplyment down - draft.
Want to go from deflation to inflation? Huge deficit spending injected directly into defense contractors and a war time economy.
Want to get the heat off the financial mess?
Want to have something other than domestic/financial policy to blame for the economic mess?
Want to have a half chance of being re-elected??
Boeing stock has not been going up due to a rosy commercial airline buying binge in the near future.
The BB's, etc. may be able to control gold financially, but add WAR (not war) - they won't be able to hold it down and I think they know it and we're starting to see gold shifts/positioning by the majors.
Good news. Gold's going up, but I'm getting the feeling I'm not going to like the reason.
Pizz
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 20:42:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 70792)
Rx Gold
I was not at the meeting. I wasn't even aware of it. I just live nearby. I know that there are several meetings of this type all the time. Sometimes they are held at the Sheridan Inn (where Buffalo Bill Cody used to hang out and have try outs for his Wild West Shows). I guess that they moral of the story is, if you are going to steal land from the Indian to ranch and farm, at least try to steal the mineral rights too. ;-)
- Black Blade
Rx Gold
(02/26/02; 20:37:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 70791)
@Black Blade
Were you at the meeting?
Rx Gold
(02/26/02; 20:35:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 70790)
@ Black Blade
I also wanted to apologize for saying that Wyoming folk only care about the bar being open. That was a flip remark and should not have said that. I always look forward to your posts and marvel at your ability to pick out interesting articles and snippit them for us. Thank you.
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 20:34:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 70789)
Rx Gold
Ah heck, I am in Sheridan right now. If I knew you were here I would buy ya a Fat Tire at Sanford's. Cheers!
- Black Blade
Rx Gold
(02/26/02; 20:30:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 70788)
@ Black Blade
Thanks BB. I have been to a meeting in Sheridan all day listning to reps from the Wyo DEQ, Montana DEQ, The Crow Tribe, The Cheyenne Tribe, US EPA and a pile of other folks representing everything from fish huggers to CBM lawyers. It was a very interesting meeting. I hope you are right about the lack of CBM development this year as it looks like another drought year for the irrigators downstream. I hope all parties can come to some sort of mutual understanding that will allow CBM development as well as protecting our Montana farmers.
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 20:17:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 70787)
RE: Rx Gold - Montana CBM
http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/web_article_display.cfm?ARTICLE_CATEGORY=TOPST&ARTICLE_ID=136952
RE: Rx Gold - Montana CBM
State and federal regulators issue draft EIS for Montana coal bed methane production
Snippit:
WASHINGTON, DC, Feb. 26 --State and federal regulators have issued a draft environmental impact statement for coal bed methane development in south-central and southeastern Montana.
The preferred alternative recommended by the Department of the Interior's Bureau of Land Management would require operators to submit a plan of development and plan for handling water generated during coal bed methane production, the Independent Petroleum Association of Mountain States said. BLM also wants water from production recycled for irrigation or livestock watering.
The EIS assumes 10,000-26,000 wells will be drilled in the region and could include 4,000 wells on Indian lands. The deadline for comments is May 15; five public meetings are scheduled before then across the state. A final EIS is anticipated in the summer. In a related effort, Region 8 of the US Environmental Protection Agency Region and the Montana and Wyoming departments of environmental quality received comments by industry, landowners, and other stakeholders on the surface discharge of coal bed methane water.
IPAMS said regulators may try to apply water quality regulations originally intended for conventional oil and gas to "relatively new" coal bed methane production. The agencies' analysis will also help determine whether reinjection and other water containment methods are suitable in some areas, IPAMS officials said.
The association said industry prefers to continue using the surface discharge method under an EPA guideline that allows for "best professional judgment." But several ranchers said they are worried that guideline allows too many permits to be issued that circumvent regulations intended to protect existing land uses.
Black Blade: It appears that the Bureau of Land Management's EIS has concluded that essentially no changes need to be made to existing regulations. Of course it's a moot point this year as there will be little if any significant drilling of CBM due to low NG prices.
Trapper
(02/26/02; 20:10:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 70786)
Cave Man
Sir Cave Man: You wrote.
The Euro model is an innovation; though last in a long line of monetary invention(s). The single, compelling reason for its usage
IMHO is the free floating (market) price of gold allowing gold to be used as a store of value and a defense against debasement
of the realm's coin. IMHO, this is a practical, rational model well-grounded in historical monetary perspective that will work.
With only a modicum of money's history; one cannot help but believe that change is upon us. Doing my homework.....CM
I guess you will be putting your money into euro's now. Please explain to me what the paultry amount of gold held in the euro centeral bank has to do with the fiat bill in circulation? You suggest that it is a defense against debasment. This would imply that a German fellow could exchange some of his fiat bills for some of that gold a gold's free market price. Many countries hold large amounts of gold and use fiat but it is no help...ALL fiat will go to ZERO someday. Now the euro being the newest fiat on the block has more time perhaps but to zero it will go. If the ecu adds gold as they print more fiat it will last much longer but I doubt they keep the ratio even, too much temptation for free money for the bankers etc. As for me I am exiting as much fiat as possible and into hard money AG, AU, And some PT plus supplies and protection. Live small.
RJ
Chris Powell
(02/26/02; 19:54:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 70785)
Canada's Financial Post devotes most of a page to GATA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1025
Canada's Financial Post devotes most of a page
to GATA:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1025
To subscribe to GATA's dispatches
by email and get them immediately so
you don't have to go look for them,
send an email to:
gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
slingshot
(02/26/02; 19:13:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 70784)
Gold is cheaper in Canada.
Look out Canuck!
If you could have a good day at work, today had to be one for me. Here is the story. A fellow worker who has been working along with myself for a short period of time'started a conversation about how much he had lost in the stock market. I listen to him explain that it had put him in a pinch and let him bend my ear watching the expressions on his face. He seems to be a good fellow and after he finished I asked him what has he done to prevent that from happening to him again. He stated he moved into CD's and Bonds. Having been burnt on the subject of gold I asked him what he thought about it. He said, " I would buy some if I could find some". I thought to myself YEAH!, I finally have someone to talk about gold at work. Then It happened.The next words were, "But I have to go to Canada to get some". I tried to explain that he could get it right here in the USA. No, it was cheaper in Canada. I let it drop with an O.K. Did not need to make a fellow goldbug angry.
My plan is to bring in some gold articles and I'm sure in time he will ask to read them. I would like to save him a trip for it will be a very long one every time he wants to buy. He gave a smile for the day. He sounded like he was bent on going to Canada for sure.
Wonder if he is driving or flying?
Slingshot :)))
R Powell
(02/26/02; 19:06:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 70783)
POG/POS
The boys down under in Sydney gave up $.90 of today's gain in gold but they added 3 cents to the POS. Now we start in Hong Kong. The POG is really starting to look good from a technical point of view. The trend followers should start covering shorts and adding to their long positions.
The OTC shorts should start some serious worrying.
Hopefully, we'll soon have reason to start some serious smiling. If POG goes steadily upward, we'll see just how well the delta hedging and Black and Scholes formulae work.
Thanks, sector, for reporting what you've heard. It's starting to feel as if the path of least resistance for metals' prices is up. Maybe I've been looking at the charts too much.
Rich
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 18:59:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 70782)
Cavan Man - Oil and Fuel Cells
We won't see fuel cell technology take off for another 20 years or so, if ever. There are several major problems. 1) The consumer will have to accept a new product and be willing to pay for it. That is likely to take place over several years; and 2) there simply is not infrastructure to produce hydrogen in any significant quantity or any distribution system. That alone would take decades.
Right now Oil and Natural Gas is dirt cheap, thankfully due to a worsening/deepening recession/depression. If the Middle East blows up then we will see higher POO due to expected supply disruptions. As far as Dubya's "Energy Plan", it is good as dead. Daschle (D-SD) won't let the bill come to a vote in the senate and until a change in political majority in the senate, and so it will remain dead. The US will remain hostage to the oil producing nations as it is oil that fuels the economy. Cheers!
- Black Blade
sector
(02/26/02; 18:53:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 70781)
Oil,Oil, Oil...Nahhh...Maybe NGas
@CavenMan
There are far too many REALLY BIG FED derivatives players to get into oil.
It is much better to play small Canadian NGas guys.
Companies too small to afford accounting bribes. At least then one gets closer to the real earnings number…always with zero debt. Any equity with debt is a killer these days.
BTW Ernst Weltke pulled sort of a clumsy, foot-in-mouth slap at gold and then moved in to buy after it dropped $6. So...the next time the European guys get together to bash gold we know they are the ones lining up to buy the dip they cause.
uponroof
(02/26/02; 18:46:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 70780)
Jimmy Rogers..."Find out what Central Banks are Doing and do the Opposite"
http://www.grantsinvestor.com/fleck/fleck.html
Hi guys,
Sure is nice to see the POG finding 'controlled balance' at 300+-.....MORE IMPORTANTLY.....they are using their big guns (statement from a CB') to quash a rally. Orchastrated selling just doesn't seem to cut it anymore. Sure looks like things are getting out of hand.
Speaking of bankers...
From Fleck tonight:
Panning Gold On The Thames Away from stocks, fixed income was down 0.5%, as measured by the 10-year. The currencies were lower, with the euro and the yen down. The metals were doing better, with gold and silver up over 1%-plus. Speaking of the metals, a fellow named Alan Kinnersley penned a very interesting letter to the editor in Barron's last weekend on the irony surrounding the Bank of England's gold auctions. He noted that while the proceeds were being invested in dollars, euro and yen, "currency charts show that in the last 12 months, gold has appreciated against the U.S. dollar, euro and yen by 18%, 21%, and 33%, respectively" -- obviously dwarfing whatever tiny yield was earned by the currencies. He then echoes a point made here sometime back, that with the Japanese appearing to be buying gold for investment reasons, this would be the first time in 20 years that gold was actually behaving as a monetary asset. Mr. Kinnersley's ending remark says it best: "Ironically, individual investors appear to be rediscovering the monetary role of gold, even as the guardians of the world's financial system at the Bank of England have rejected it."
Crying All The Way To The Bank Actually, while there may be some irony, this is the way it always is. Any time bankers, whether commercial or central, all agree to do something, you can be 100% certain it's the wrong thing to do. As the bubble was blowing off in the late 1990s, commercial banks in America were falling over themselves to buy brokerage firms. Meanwhile, the central bankers have been demonstrating their shortsightedness by selling gold. So, it's quite obvious what to do going forward: Own gold and avoid financial assets. Taking the other side of what all the bankers do has always been a winning trade during the 20-plus years I've been in the business (although there is often a serious time lag that must be dealt with, which is no trivial matter).
*************
uponroof:
Japan...
Unless Japanese banks declare bankruptcy there is no start of real reform. If the Japanese gummint can't call broke banks broke, their people will do it for them...by buying gold. yeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!
sector...somewhere along the line, during these next few financial calamities, I sincerely hope Mr Rubin gets what he deserves.
**********
Congrats to the CANADIAN hocky teams!
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 18:42:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 70779)
Gold Gets Slapped Down in Asia
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
Apparently the Asians don't want Gold to break through $300. A very steep drop on the charts.
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 18:14:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 70778)
@sector
How do you like oil if the ME blows? The President was out on the hustings the last couple of days talking fuel cells and asking for a "quick passage" of his energy bill. I think the sand is running out in the hourglass.
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 18:12:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 70777)
@sector
Skilling's too clever by half.
He said he could not remember a $5.6mm bonus paid last year or year before. He's taking the Hillary Clinton defense: "I don't recall".
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 18:07:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 70776)
Nikkei Soaring Tonight
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
The Nikkei has been on a tear lately, however, much of this appears to be related to rules against shorting stocks in Japan. Apparently several banks are being forced to pay heavy fines for playing fast and loose with rules that prohibit some short sales. There is also the possibility that Japanese are yanking Yen outta banks and going for the Nikkei in a desperate hope to find some - any safe haven from insolvent banks.
- Black Blade
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 17:32:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 70775)
Waverider - POG and Valuation
http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=metals
Right now the POG is about to pop through $300/oz again. I guess the reason that I value the US Dollar by Gold ounces is that it seems to make more sense. And why not? We hear the drivel that Gold has been in a bear market for over 20 years. I think not. Gold has only been in a bear market since 1996. It had a very brief spike above $850 in 1980 based on the "Triple Whammy" of Iranian Revolution with taking of American hostages from the US embassy, The Invasion Of Afghanistan by Soviets, and Double Didgit Inflation. One could also add an inept US President for the previous four years as well.
Better yet, instead of focussing on Gold bear markets, why not focus on the 70 year bear market for the US Dollar. Over 70 years ago the US Dollar was valued at about 0.05 ounces per US Dollar. Today (actually right now) it stands at about 0.0033388 ounces of Gold. Clearly the US Dollar has been in a downtrend or a Bear MArket for well over 70 years. Gold has outperformed the US Dollar by a substantial amount over that extended period. All this in spite of the US government's best efforts to maintain a "Strong Dollar Policy". Hmmm...
Cheers!
- Black Blade
sector
(02/26/02; 17:19:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 70774)
POG Jumped today...
...Because a very large buyer [possibly from Deutsche Bank] "Bought the COMEX floor and then went upstairs to the physical desk and bought them the rest of the day", according to a reliable source.
The usual floor noise about "invasion" or whatever they dream up is BS.
Not that there won't BE an invasion of Iraq this year...which should turn the oils markets upside down. Possibly this is explanation for the US purchase of additional SPR stocks lately.
The cabal may be breaking if one of their members turns on them. This is not too extreme to contemplate since the Germans [If they are the one] have a gold swap marker for 1700 tonnes of West Point gold and O'Neill may not want to give it back just yet.
What was Clinton's and Rubin's Error in starting the manipulation scam? Never assume honor among thieves.
BTW Rubin has his fanny in a wringer over e-mails from HIS Citibank derivatives desk to the Allied Irish []$700 Million blow-up] rogue trader...they were in it together it seems.
It just keeps getting better...even on the 6PM NBC News Skilling goes toe to toe with Watkins and gets smashed...there is no end to the arrogance at Skilling's level.
Waverider
(02/26/02; 16:49:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 70773)
Black Blade
I think you're having us on here...it looks to me that all it is is 1.00US divided by the spot price of Gold. What's the purpose though...why not just go with the spot price? Cheers,
Waverider
Joepmbull
(02/26/02; 16:33:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 70772)
Rumor/news about US troops in Iraq
Lets get the words correct. Rumor was "US has troops in Iraq" It was not "US invasion of Iraq". I would be very surprised if US did NOT have troops (special forces) in Iraq. War on terrorism requires that as first step.
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 16:19:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 70771)
Robotguy
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
At the link is a good currency converter - it also will calculate currency exchange with Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Palladium. How the exchanges determine the value of such nebulous concepts as paper currency among all currencies (including PMs) is for far greater minds than me. Cheers!
- Black Blade
TownCrier
(02/26/02; 15:51:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 70770)
Cavan Man (msg#: 70766)
Along with Belgian and a handful of others I've seen here, you are light years ahead of the pack in this understanding you've articulated in that brief post. Stand proud.
Steady on, mate.
--Randy
R Powell
(02/26/02; 15:35:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 70769)
Short selling/ sector
Those suffering from declining stock prices often tend to blame the short sellers. Apparently the Japanese have now found them to be convenient scapegoats again.
Jesse Livermore was heavily short stocks just before the panic of 1907. According to his thinly disguised autobiography, the original J.P. Morgan asked him, by messenger, to ease off as the market was crumbling. Jesse took his profit by buying back his shorts and then proceeded to go long.
The article you posted does not state what rules these brokers were accused of breaking. Other than not shorting on downticks, what shorting rules are there for stocks?
*****
I don't subscribe to the invasion rumor sending POG higher today as POG held strong right up to Comex close. What other reasons are being offered?
Thanks
Rich
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 15:28:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 70768)
Hey sector
Thanks!
sector
(02/26/02; 14:25:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 70767)
@CavenMan: Japan Shorters Whacked...Strong Rumor about DB Buying Heavy at COMEX...
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3YNM646YC&live=true&tagid=IXLI0L9Z1BC
...because they can't GET any elsewhere.
Bill Murphy has reliable sources with more to come this PM at the cafe.
It may be big. It may involve a cabal [DB] member exiting and going long. Meanwhile...back at the Far Eastern Ranch:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Japanese FSA clamps down on short-selling
By Michiyo Nakamoto in Tokyo
Published: February 26 2002 19:31 | Last Updated: February 26 2002 20:07
Japan's financial regulator is to penalise Crédit Lyonnais and Bear Stearns, and order stricter compliance at Deutsche Securities and Nikko Salomon Smith Barney, for violating short-selling rules.
The Financial Services Agency has ordered Crédit Lyonnais to suspend trading on its own account and on commissioned business by affiliated companies for two weeks, beginning on Wednesday.
It has told Bear Stearns to stop broking for affiliated companies on stock trading for a week, and to suspend securities businesses with affiliated companies for two weeks.
Deutsche Securities and NSSB were not penalised, but all four were ordered to strengthen internal control systems and secure strict compliance with the rules. Each of the four firms said they accepted the FSA decision and planned to improve compliance.
The FSA move comes amid calls from Japanese government leaders to clamp down on short-selling, which they blame for falling share prices.
Masajuro Shiokawa, finance minister, said this month that Japan had become "a gambling den", where short-selling was causing sharp declines in share prices.
Most observers say the stock market's decline owes much to poor corporate performance, hefty debts, huge non-performing loans at the banks and a grim economic outlook.
++++++++++++++++++++
Funny... the FSA looks the other way when Miysui, Sumitomo and Mitsubichi hold massive short open interest postiions in gold. Geeze...could there be collusion on the TOCOM?
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 14:11:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 70766)
History of Money
Have just researched a brief presentation to a 2nd grade class using the Davies' material.
The history of money is marked by three prominent features:
1.Change
2.Corruption
3.Calamity
The gold standard(s) all failed for various reasons as did their silver counterparts and bi-metallic hybrids. It is likely and probable we have been witnessing the failure of the current "system" since about 1980-82.
The Euro model is an innovation; though last in a long line of monetary invention(s). The single, compelling reason for its usage IMHO is the free floating (market) price of gold allowing gold to be used as a store of value and a defense against debasement of the realm's coin. IMHO, this is a practical, rational model well-grounded in historical monetary perspective that will work. With only a modicum of money's history; one cannot help but believe that change is upon us. Doing my homework.....CM
RobotGuy
(02/26/02; 13:43:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 70765)
@BlackBlade---A question for you
I can't figure out how the value of the U.S. dollar could be determined with reference to other currencies. When I speak of the value of the CDN$ it is in reference to the U.S.$ and so it is with many currencies. Since everyone's currency sort of 'floats', how is it that you determine where the U.S.$ is, I mean what is it you refer to?
Black Blade
(02/26/02; 13:34:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 70764)
Gold Gains and US Dollar Falls
http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=metals
Gold supposedly rsoe on false rumors of a US invasion in Iraq today. Commentators were a bit upset that this helped Gold, yet there was no outcry over false rumors such as that of the Reich's bank wishing to sell Gold. I don't feel sorry for these people one bit. Consumer confidence is waning once again. Still, insolvent Japanese banks can't count on a government bailout and so shares of Japanese banks sank. It could get a bit interesting in Japan tonight and maybe Gold will continue to rally.
Overall, the US dollar sank to a mere 0.0033568 ounces of Gold.
- Black Blade
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 11:50:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 70763)
@sector
RE: Deutsche Bank
I heard a report of this. Do you have a link to an official source? Also, isn't it a little odd for DB to be buying at the Comex betting window? TIA
Mr Gresham
(02/26/02; 11:04:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 70762)
Monetization
http://216.46.231.211/credit.htm
Jin-Yin's post on Housing Bubble got me thinking on the Fed's promised or potential monetization of housing finance, specifically the Fannie/Freddie debt instruments that form the major part of supporting the dollar bubble. (recycling trade deficit dollars from Europe & elsewhere -- see Doug Noland link above.)
When the Fed in the near future "prints" the money to buy the GSE debt securities, it is not to help you make your mortgage payments, or even to support the current inflated house prices. Nice if it could be done, but in a general deflationary default collapse, the money will be made available for "special purposes" only. To buy the already-issued debt securities in the marketplace, making those current lenders whole at least dollar-wise. These are the institutions that have done the Fed's handiwork these past years and they will be insulated from shock if possible.
New securities issuance?, well that's another question. And if it were known that these were NOT insulated against default, then would Fannie/Freddie still be in the mortgage purchase business, and would rates still be low enough to support this market? In other words, looks like one of those markets that could turn on a discontinuous dime...
sector
(02/26/02; 10:32:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 70761)
Yen at 134.58 to the dollar
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/chart.cgi?s=CME_JYH2&v=s&w=5&t=f&a=1
The above fast-loading chart reveals a nice downward spike in the yen which is actually...a nice upward spike in yen denominated gold...which is to be added to the already nice upward spike in dollar denominated gold.
sector
(02/26/02; 10:27:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 70760)
Bank Reform? In Japan? Really?....Upon Further Review...Nope.
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3IYDV25YC&live=true&tagid=IXLI0L9Z1BC
Tokyo ends down as bank fund hopes fade
By Natalie Jacob-Scharli in Tokyo
Published: February 26 2002 01:42 | Last Updated: February 26 2002 08:18
Comments from government figures that an injection of public funds into the banking system may not be appropriate at present and might not be included in the anti-deflation package sent Tokyo shares down on Tuesday.
The Nikkei 225 ended 93.84 lower, or 0.9 per cent, at 10,202.63, while the broader Topix index finished 3.30 down, or 0.3 per cent, at 983.82.
The market had been encouraged by hopes the government's anti-deflation package, to be announced on Wednesday, would include a strategy to deal with the disposal of banks' bad loans, but banking stocks weakened on indications the government might not be taking any such action.
"The market was disappointed by news the government might not inject money into the banks and the reaction (was) not positive," said Hamish Ross, head of trading at Instinet. "The government's credibility is going down the toilet. There are rumours there may be further funds going to Daiei yet there aren't funds for banks."
Masajuro Shiokawa, the finance minister, said earlier the government would inject funds into the troubled banking sector if it was deemed necessary but that he didn't think the situation merited any such move yet.
Meanwhile, Hakuo Yanagisawa, financial services minister, said he wasn't considering taking measures to deal with bad loans in the package beyond an already announced plan to disclose the results of special inspections of big banks.
Instead, the draft package would call for the Bank of Japan to take bold monetary policy action to combat deflation. The BoJ is due to meet on Thursday and investors are eager to see whether it will further ease its already-loose monetary policy in a bid to help the government achieve its goal of stemming a fall in prices.
++++++++++++++++++
One can only speculate at the "Bold Monetary Policy" to be unveiled tomorrow.
Let's see...shaft the elderly out of their savings to bailout the banks?
Gold bugs can only hope this is the new direction because if it IS, then the rest of the elderly Japanese $620 Billion in savings will pop right into gold.
BTW on Friday Mitsui and Sumitomo [Perennial TOCOM gold shorters] went long across the maturity range. This, a day before Deutsche Bank starts buying on the COMEX.
Things are getting interesting.
Gimme Shelter
(02/26/02; 10:21:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 70759)
Where is all of the wealth going too?
Good afternoon all.
So as we all continue to ponder these ongoings, being conspiratorial, or real, who knows.
For the first time in the history of man, we are able to monitor the actions and reactions of our banker politicians and corporate scoundrels. Does this give us an edge?
But where is all of the wealth going when mom and pop lose it through the confiscations that are happening. (Inflation, Stock Markets, Real Estate market collapse, etc.)
Lets look a little bit at some of the reports.
The magazine insight on the News reports that the Pentagon is afoul in their accounting and can not find 1.1 Trillion dollars??? What? Summer 2001.
Then the week after September 11, the market slides and mom and pop investors are treated to a 1.8 Trillion dollar loss.
Countries around the world are being attacked by the OECD and the FATF. These agencies are stealing accounts under the guise of money laundering.
So when we look at 2.9 trillion that is taken, where does it go?
Who is hoarding all of this wealth as it is being stolen from the taxpayers.
Is there any other type of government money, besides taxpayer mooney?
Why when the Bill of Rights continues to be attacked, do we Americans not revolt?
Are we revolting by education, on economics and wealth preservation?
Will the internet be the tool that slays the Goliath?
The internet backbone providers are not as privately owned as we think.
If the Federal Government owned 48% of GDP prior to 9-11-01, what is it now? Is the Federal Government holding majority shares in the industries we are concerned about like Energy, Telecom, Transportation?
Can these major shareholders force companies to shut off our tool?
Can their spacestation lead a roll in continueing the control of the populace through deceit?
Are we nieve to think that this whole play with the currencies is not a plan for further wealth redistribution as the fiats collapse?
Even the mighty Rome fell when they had no gold left. It took them 400+ years.
Are these the reasons that many countries around the world have whole Expatriot communitties for the people who are choosing to run from the powers to be, for a life of financial privacy?
Lots of curiosity seems to be the tone of the year so far.
How long can the powers deflect our Who, What, Where, When and Why questions?
When will this litigouse atrocity cave in under its own system?
RobotGuy
(02/26/02; 09:56:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 70758)
It's Golden, but a little off topic...
There's something I must say regarding the Olympics, and the pairs competition. I haven't heard discussion of this, but I think it should be said. Since the Canadian figure skating pair received gold after scandal, I think it would have been appropriate that the skaters that received bronze should have been given a silver, and the ones who were in fourth should have received bronze. ALL SKATERS WERE AFFECTED BY THE SAME SCANDAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In all fairness, why did this not happen??
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 09:11:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 70757)
What he said....
"World equity markets are like a pie crust stretched across the roof of a volcano."
richard640
RobotGuy
(02/26/02; 08:50:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 70756)
Canuck buck
I see our dollar is going whacko again. Why can't anybody settle that damn thing down?
G$
(02/26/02; 08:49:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 70755)
(No Subject)
Govt. denies rumor that troops are in Iraq. Broke at the same time as the consumer confidence numbers.
G$
Mr Gresham
(02/26/02; 08:46:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 70754)
Love that INO chart!
Little Spikester falling out of his cradle this A.M. -- where's the Nanny?
RobotGuy
(02/26/02; 08:45:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 70753)
@Jin-Yin
Welcome! I don't recall ever seeing a post by you, but I'm sure everyone here extends a warm welcome to the greatest forum to hit the internet!
B.T.W.---- Randy, thank you for all your hard work keeping this forum rollin'!!
RobotGuy
(02/26/02; 08:34:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 70752)
SPOT
I wuz gunna say somethin bout spot, but,... looks like y'all beat me to it!!!
Cheers, hope it keeps movin!!
A Canadian
(02/26/02; 08:20:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 70751)
@ CARAVAN MAN
SPOT IS VERY ANGRY!
Waverider
(02/26/02; 08:19:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 70750)
POG
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
POG up $4.10 to $296.50 and shares on the move this am. Cheers!
Cavan Man
(02/26/02; 08:17:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 70749)
POG
What's up with spot?
Waverider
(02/26/02; 08:08:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 70748)
British wreck off Gibraltar may hold £2.5bn of gold
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,658149,00.html
Snippit:
"HMS Sussex, an 80 gun ship of the line, is believed to have had on board up to 10 tons of gold when it sank in a storm in 1694. After a seven year search, a US firm, Odyssey Marine Exploration, believes it has found it half a mile down.
HMS Sussex was on a secret mission taking gold and silver coins to the Duke of Savoy to finance him as an ally against Louis XIV in the Nine Years War against France. The vessel was Admiral Sir Francis Wheeler's flagship for a fleet of 40 warships and 166 merchant ships.
Speculation suggests the wreck may hold coins and artifacts worth up to £2.5bn. But how the spoils of any salvage would be divided is the subject of discussions, according to the MoD; it said that, if the wreck were the Sussex, any gold would belong to the crown."
Waverider: Quite fascinating from an historical and marine archeological perspective. A Great Day to All!
TownCrier
(02/26/02; 07:24:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 70747)
Make that, "hard-earned rupees"!
:-)
R.
TownCrier
(02/26/02; 07:22:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 70746)
Imagine how much more gold India would consume if customers received the quantity they paid for
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1842000/1842083.stm
Due to a jewelry scam, Indians have been buying gold by the tonnes, but have only been receiving gold by the pounds in exchange for their hard-earned dollars. The new hallmarking program should be good for gold.
Details from the BBC article:
-------------
HEADLINE: India's gold jewellery rip-off
Most gold jewellery advertised in India as 22-carat is of a lesser quality, a survey by the Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS) has revealed.
The BIS found over 80% of the shops surveyed were passing off anything between 13.5 and 18 carats as 22-carat gold.
Using a sample of fifteen shops in each city, the BIS found only 14 of the 120 sold gold as advertised.
India is the world's largest market for gold, consuming 855 tonnes a year, 95% of which is used for jewellery...the most common gift at weddings, and is part of the bride's dowry, especially in rural India, where parents believe the metal will give daughters some financial security.
----------------------
Again, if the Indians start receiving full value for their money rather than receiving heaps of scrap alloy, the resulting increase in physical offtake from the world gold market would be... significant.
R.
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.
(02/26/02; 07:02:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 70745)
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