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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/26/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 23:43:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 62468)
Gold Fields sees gold supply declining
http://www.brecorder.com/story/000022/200109/20010927/200109270053.shtml?Metals:~Gold,~Palladium~Group
Snippit:
SYDNEY : South Africa's Gold Fields Ltd said on Wednesday a decline in the global supply of gold was looming as mine activity wanes and some central banks exhaust their sales. "It is coming clear there is a mine supply slowdown coming," Gold Fields chairman and chief executive Chris Thompson said. "It's a few years out, but it is on the edge of the radar screen and moving down towards us noticeably," Thompson told a media and analysts' teleconference. .......World demand for gold by consumers was 3,946 tonnes last year against mine production of 2,573 tonnes, industry figures show.
Black Blade: Meanwhile Gold is on sale at very cheap prices. The supply position could be altered some as forward sold producers like Barrick could go belly up.
Netking
(9/26/01; 22:36:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 62467)
Uponproof
Sir Uponproof - The positives for the paper markets are that the Fed's printing press is running on "nitro" . . . .there is figure of $100 Billion supposed to have been injected in the markets since 9-11.
Positive for gold is that things are by no means cut & dried on the military front with Islam verbally rising up against the U.S.'s objectives & Arab bases previously promised for Allied anti-terror use being steadily withdrawn. Pressure is meanwhile mounting within the U.S. for "action" . . . the picture is still very cloudy. The markets like certainty for stability, I see uncertainty & volatility especially over the next week or two, this will we factored into a volatile POG. All FWIW
- Cheers Netking
Hipplebeck
(9/26/01; 22:26:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 62466)
POG#####$291.15######
It is still to early for a rise. I believe we will see the price stay around here until the public figures out how much inflation there really is. Then they will all flock to gold.
darkhorse
(9/26/01; 22:18:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 62465)
POG contest
##### $310.30 #####
The needs (and wants) of the many will outweigh the consistent but (resistance is...) futile attempts to hold gold to their own comfort level. Gold will, once again, live long and prosper!
BR549
(9/26/01; 22:03:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 62464)
Beowulf (msg#: 62460)---
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19786-2001Sep24.html
"The 15 organizations and 12 individuals President Bush targeted in his financial crackdown yesterday provide a road map of the global allies of Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden, including some of the world's most notorious terrorists, and three charity groups who say they funnel Muslim donations to war-torn Afghanistan.
Besides bin Laden himself and his secretive al Qaeda organization, the list includes the Abu Sayyaf Group, known for beheading plantation workers and blowing up Christian churches in its effort to set up an Islamic state in the southern Philippines; the Armed Islamic Group, which has killed thousands of Algerians in its war with the Algiers regime; and Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which carried out the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and the killing in 1997 of 58 European tourists in Luxor.
Also on Bush's list is the Al Rashid Trust, a Pakistani-based group that solicits funds over the Internet to provide bread for poor Afghans. Another group listed is the Wafa Humanitarian Organization, based in the United Arab Emirates, which says it is funded by wealthy Arabs in several Middle Eastern countries to distribute clothing, medicine and food to destitute people around Kabul."
BR549---Sorry Beowulf, the World Alliance is way ahead of your article. We're not talking about nickels, we're talking about choking off hundreds of millions of terrorist funds. Your link's Al Rashid Trust has already been targeted for extinction. Believe it is hard for me to put a white hat on bankers but in the case of terrorism, I am bankster green.
BR549
uponroof
(9/26/01; 21:59:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 62463)
Netking......like to hear your thoughts on next week.
Good evening,
OK, I'm wondering why you're looking to next week. Here are my thoughts on the immediate future regarding external POG influeces.
I am hoping that the POG percolation we are getting is left alone without any special events (airstrikes) to spurr it past 300. Let's get there without the 'big event'. If we can climb 300 without a major military raid the fundamentals would strengthen. At that point military events causing POG to increase beyond 300 would carry much more strength and do much more damage to the shorts.
Conversley, a move from 290+- to 300+-, due to military action, would be I fear (as the analysts suggest) short lived. Also much easier for the cartel to continue the psych job if it is understood 290 is the natural home when bombs are not falling.
It's a new world for sure, but the cartel is trying to arrange their 'safe' trading ground here also. Don't think Bush isn't considering this when timing the attack.
If I were Afghani I would be watching the POG. As soon as it falls 10+- bucks, consider the planes are in the air on the way.
BR549
(9/26/01; 21:41:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 62462)
CBOT to launch new mini contracts New York Gold on Sunday
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010926/n26244990_1.html
"Wednesday September 26, 5:30 pm Eastern Time
CHICAGO, Sept 26 (Reuters) - The Chicago Board of Trade will launch mini-sized futures contracts on the Dow Jones Industrial Average, 30-year Treasury bond, 10-year Treasury note, New York Silver and New York Gold on Sunday, the CBOT announced on Wednesday.
The mini contracts, designed as a complement to the existing Dow Jones, Treasury and Metal complexes, will trade only on the Board's electronic a/c/e platform, according to a CBOT statement.
``The launch of the mini-sized products reinforces the Chicago Board of Trade's goal to be a product-driven organization,'' said CBOT Chairman Nickolas Neubauer in the press release.
Those mini contracts currently trade on the MidAmerica Commodity Exchange but will stop on Friday at noon. Their open interest will be transferred to the CBOT."
BR-More mini-sized paper gold. I prefer gold dimes for my mini's.
Beowulf
(9/26/01; 21:35:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 62461)
####$289.50####
I'm going to guess that we will get someone coming out with some old news that either the Bank of England, the Swiss, or some South American country will suddenly sell gold due to it's poor performance before we reach the $300 area. This will create temporary down shift in price until people again realize that the story is either old or bogus, like the story of the Russians selling gold for disaster relief efforts.
-Beowulf
Beowulf
(9/26/01; 21:24:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 62460)
Age-Old Way of Moving Cash Leaves Little
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-000077116sep26.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dfrontpage
Interesting article on why freezing suspected terrorist funds in banks won't work.
Snip...
A leading money-changer, who works on the edge of Chowk Yadgar square in a shop the size of a walk-in closet, summed up America's chances of cutting the terrorists' secret cash lifeline here: "Impossible."
unsnip...
Snip...
Hawala banking, which is illegal in Pakistan, relies on something older than money itself: a person's word. Nothing could be more discreet. There is no need to smuggle large amounts of cash from one country to another or to fill out bank forms that can draw unwanted attention. No need, in fact, for detailed bank records.
A person simply hands over cash at one end and it is paid out at the other, leaving virtually no paper trail to follow.
unsnip...
snip...
No cash is moved through legal banking channels. The hawala money trader and his partner simply keep straight between themselves who owes what to whom and settle their own debts--in cash, gold or other commodities--when convenient.
unsnip...
-Beowulf
Canuck
(9/26/01; 20:27:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 62459)
******The World is a Different Place Today Than It was 9/10/01*****
True
It is ironic that a subject that has been whirling around in my mind for 15 days comes to pass on the Forum. It is the subject of transparency.
I have stared at graphs of the major North American markets for a long time now and still cannot believe the sudden and unmistakable trajectory change in 1995. I cannot account for this. When I ask my browser for a 'all-data' graph it shows the DJIA rising very slowly at a shallow slope for a long, long time and suddenly, in 1995, a steep ascending tangent replaces the multi-decade line. What happened in 1995?
What happened on 9/11/01? Is there an entity that detests the dominance of the USA in a monetary sense and specifically since 1995?
The world has been rocked, it awaits the response of the USA. I can only imagine the anger of US officals; it must be in the same order as the hatred of the perpetrators of the NY/Washington tragedy. The concept of retaliation is really a puzzling debate; was 09/11 the retaliation? Is the retaliation in the future? Are we to witness multiple retaliations? Do we argue this from the west side or the east side of the fence?
Now a dilema faces the globe. The US has demanded the world to choose sides in a situation that does not easily afford a yes or no answer. The ultimatum has been posed, "...you are either with us or against us". For example, Saudi Arabia has been seen to offer any of 3 positions, one that they support the US, two that they don't and three that they do except that they will not allow missile launches from their soil. The debate is futile because soon we will find out.
Yes, we shall see.
The papers debate the position of neighbouring countries and this position is changing daily but again, very soon, we shall see.
We have all read the political, monetary and military wiggling and posturing of many nations over the volatile 'wealthy' years but now we will see who sides with who very soon. This will include the gold-sellors and the gold-accumulators. Speculation can be discarded, for a 'line-in-the-sand' has been drawn by the USA.
Be careful for what you demand, for the outcome may not be what you wish. We need not speculate as to who will align with who, this will become very clear in the coming days and weeks. The very obvious alignments of military and political forces in a non-productive global peace process will prove to be very beneficial for gold.
This is what is different since 09/10/01.
auspec
(9/26/01; 20:24:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 62458)
Derivatives?
spread em around
enough pain for all
wolavka wannabee
nickel62
(9/26/01; 20:20:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 62457)
Contaest
If it is not too late to post I would like to chose a price of $317 / ounce of gold..
HopeingII
(9/26/01; 20:06:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 62456)
GOLD OVER $ 290.00
Gee Whiz, it seems someone(s) doesn't like to see the
POG over $ 290.00. What a surprise......
cyclist
(9/26/01; 19:43:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 62455)
####308.04####
It seems that MK has drawn a bigger number of lurkers out of the woodwork than usual with this contest (I'm one). Perhaps that is telling us something. If the interest is building, so should the price.
auspec
(9/26/01; 19:14:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 62454)
AEL
Your post in regards to David Guyatt's work and Black Gold {shhhh...} is MOST interesting. Thank you, I find David's work to be quite credible and feel these pieces of the puzzle will all eventually link up!
Salud!
Rudely Awakened
(9/26/01; 19:08:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 62453)
****The world is a different place today than it was 9/10/01
True. The game (you and me) is afoot. In hot pursuit are those benevolent few men and women of vision who have taken it upon themselves to protect us from ourselves. But such protection (our security) does not come cheap, and we are being asked (told) to be prepared to part with some (all) of our inalienable rights in the name of security (Fascist dictatorship).
As the bombs went kaboom on 911, you would naturally figure a real fightin’ war had just commenced, when in fact, the real war being waged is to ensure that those benevolent few may gain the absolute power of life and death over everyone else, regardless of nation of origin.
The illusion is that this war just started. It has, in fact, been going on for a few centuries, and began about the time the benevolent few first trotted out paper currency.
Paper currency lends itself well to manipulation since it only represents something of value, especially when it hs been severed from and no longer represents anything of actual value…like gold. Add to this the diabolical potential of interest (theft of another's energy in the form of money) and compound interest, coupled with a printing press run amok, and you have the means to bring a planetful of people to their knees. The key is paper money, backed by nothing of value, printed with caprice to inflate or deflate whole economies.
I was born in 1955, and grew up ducking under my desk in grade school, drilling for the inevitable third World War. Our government hired brilliant men to study the effects of nuclear war after WWII, and they decided that we could not survive another one. Geez, what insight! An economic war, however, fought with dollars instead of bombs and bullets, could be waged and won, leaving the spoils virtually intact.
The combatants in this third world war are the dollar and gold. One or the other must fall. I do not believe we will be sending our children off to fight large battles on a scale of the last World War, yet I expect the money war to claim far more casualties and human suffering than the human race has yet seen.
911, an emergency call, was also the emergence of the New World Order. The NWO believes they are rounding the last turn and are heading for home. Americans — you and I — represent the last outpost of large numbers of sovereign individuals yet to submit. American are the last significant group of people who still have guns, and represent a real threat to their plan for world conquest. Obviously, something must be done about us.
We know something big happened on 9/11, and the world will never be what it was again. But the real story isn't "out there" in Afghanistan, or Bosnia, or Columbia, but here at home. The real war will be waged against the American people and the rights we think we have.
I do not know how this war will play out, as there are many intangibles yet to be considered, one being the heart of Americans. That will be tested soon, I believe, and will most likely decide what our world will look like when it is over.
Regardless, the future ultimately belongs to those who desire freedom over power, as we know what power always does eventually. Gold and other forms of money with intrinsic value will survive, while paper money will show its true worth and exit stage left permanently. And yet, the NWO may have their way for a time, as gold goes underground. The goldbugs will win, some day. It is good we are patient, as the benevolent few appear to have matters well in hand, though I pray it isn't so.
Short term, I feel that $300/oz is the great psychological barrier gold must overcome. There also seems to be great resistance at $290/oz. The anti-gold forces do not want to go into this weekend with spot at $290 or higher, and I think they will expend great energy to close on Friday below it. They will succeed, just barely. #####$289.50####
White Hills
(9/26/01; 18:54:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62452)
PRICE GUESSING CONTEST
POG #######303.90####### Gold is rising as more and more buyers begin to show. Holders of stocks, currency and other financial instruments get very anxious if they have to hold those positions over the weekend. Look for a spike on Friday. White Hills
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 18:16:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 62451)
Meeting OPEC Officials Face Dilemna
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010926/bs/opec_meeting_8.html
Snippit:
Delegates of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries expressed a common concern about the world economy ahead of their official meeting Wednesday to reassess the cartel's current output. ``We will satisfy the market,'' OPEC president Chakib Khelil told reporters in the Austrian capital. Khelil, who also is Algeria's oil minister, said OPEC wouldn't change its production or pricing policies at this week's meeting. ``OPEC is an organization of the world, and we are extremely preoccupied and concerned about the world economy,'' said Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister Ali Naimi.
Black Blade: Extraordinary recent events have changed the dynamics of energy investing, supply and demand. Now the pressure on OPEC must be relentless. Eventually "Cheap Energy" must be abundant for this Recession to moderate and eventually end. The fundamentals from the energy point of view suggests that we will be in this Recession for a very long time. Get those "Golden Lifeboats" ready for these stormy seas.
site steward
(9/26/01; 18:16:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 62450)
:-)
And sometimes, my "meger" offerings are quite meager!
R.
BR549
(9/26/01; 18:07:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 62449)
Largest threat to date to Taliban by World Alliance
When we win, we're going to send all of your women to college.
site steward
(9/26/01; 18:06:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 62448)
Hello Invisible Hand
I'm flattered that you admit to reading my meger offerings.
But on the price guess, please be aware that MK is looking for the COMEX traders' rate on the December contract, whereas the Euro book value is based on the theoretical spot market value (or should I say the nearest equivalent, as is currently represented by the London fix).
And yes, as a bank notion, the euro has in fact been in existence since January 1999. The "physical representation" in the form of notes and coins will be launched in three months.
I can't say that London players will "cooperate", but I'm sure the Eurosystem authorities would nevertheless like to see gold trading above EUR 318.28 on Friday for the purposes of their quarterly revaluation.
Thanks for your interest.
R.
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 18:05:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 62447)
Forbes Body Count
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/30/layoffs.html
More nonessential "Bones." As I said quite some time ago - This is going to be one heck of a Recession. Gold and Silver could break loose soon and the paper vs. physical price should continue to diverge. Gordie Brown will probably soon feel the heat for giving away all that BOE Gold.
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 17:59:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 62446)
Delta to Cut 13,000 Jobs, Reduce Schedule
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010926/business_airlines_delta_dc_6.html
Snippit:
ATLANTA (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE:DAL) on Wednesday said it would cut 13,000 jobs, or 16 percent of its work force, and trim its schedule to cope with a deepening financial crisis amid slumping air travel after the attacks on the United States two weeks ago. Sounding a bleak note for the beleaguered airline industry, Delta Chief Executive Leo Mullin said he expected a substantial decline in revenues through next year, with the Bush administration's $15 billion bailout package providing only limited relief.
Black Blade: Now Delta adds to the "Bone Pile." And it's far from over.
RE: Thanks Beer Man, what a handle. I'm off in a few to down a couple myself. I raise my stein to ya! Cheers!
The Invisible Hand
(9/26/01; 17:51:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 62445)
PRICE GUESSING CONTEST #### EUR 318.28#####
PRICE GUESSING CONTEST #### EUR 318.28#####
Who am I to oppose our Site Steward? The rules stipulate " Whoever is closest to the settlement price of the December contract on the Comex for the Friday close, September 28, 2001". The rules don't stipulate that the price must be in the same currency as the currency in which the said Comex settlement price is given. As far as I know, the euro, which doesn't yet exist as a paper currency, is convertible into USD.
CoBra(too)
(9/26/01; 17:26:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 62444)
Todays Midas had a story on Sons of Gwalia
Another Australian mega hedger may be in trouble as the Oz POG is over 600/oz.
As MK said earlier remember Ashanti, I'd like to add that Sons of Gwalia was founded by the former US President Herbert Hoover, coincidence, or what?
POG Guessing Contest:
As I'm unsure of how(e- thanks auspec) much ammunition the
enemy is perceived to still may employ I'd wager they'd try to hold gold below 292 before the weekend - and I would say
291.75 for Friday' close.
cb2
PS: Thanks to the Wiz and BR - I understand it's not the spot - though still a dog as long as the short cohorts can find a few more grains to keep the POG in chains.
PPS: I'm just recovering from a tv magazine on the Afghan Taliban filmed under unbelievable duress by Salia Shah. This regime of ultra terror against its own people and particularily their women and children in the name of Allah
makes you puke. Executions in a soccer stadium, built by international relief funds, of women and kids, were commented by a Taliban cabinet minister, that they would use other execution grounds, if the international community would support it by funding it. Haven't come across anything more satanical atrocious - and the muslim world must wake up to this kind of utterly despicable atrocity -before it dooms them and all.
goldroadlx7
(9/26/01; 16:45:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 62443)
price of gold
#####298.05#####
this is just a little below what i think will be heavy resistance going forward, ? do you think oct. has them just a little nervous? or jpmchase? or just what may it be? i feel comfortable where i'm at with gold. i don't think the cabel does. all the best to the forum(my first post please be gentle) goldroadlx7
Netking
(9/26/01; 16:27:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 62442)
POG - uponroof
uponroof(62439)I see anything "spectacular" this week for the POG, but next week looks to be particularly strong, we'll see I guess.
- Netking
RS
(9/26/01; 16:25:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 62441)
@ Broken Tee - usagold.com msg#: 62438
Broken Tee quote:
"The same people not manipulating the POG before 9/11 will continue not to manipulate it."
-----------------------------------------
LOL! -- You made my day.
Beer Man
(9/26/01; 16:20:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 62440)
price guessing contest
Link-none legal
######294.oo####
Although Ph. Au will be over $310.00, the manipulators, like a snapping turtle with his head cut off will not let go. The drive to financially castrate terrorists will push those in fear of loss into Gold- can you say unintended consequences- sure I knew you could.
First time poster mid time lurker - Black Blade you have my vote for M.V.P. Thanks Cent. Beer Man
uponroof
(9/26/01; 16:04:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 62439)
POG
Just checkin in folks. NICE DAY!
POG is but a hop skip and a jump away from 300. More important, the route there has been gradual. Very impressive. It seems no doubt there is enough market pressure to puncture the 300 barrier soon. What remains to be seen is if an air strike in unknown timing, gets it over the top before normal market pressure does it. If it is an air strike, will that carry a negative retractment after the strike is over? Will it retreat to 290 again? Or, when over 300, will it take out the shorts, inspire the masses and break free for good?
Some Banks out there are wetting themselves tonight.
Meanwhile keep an eye on Asia tonight. Got hit hard last night.
Broken Tee
(9/26/01; 15:34:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 62438)
############ 297.70 ################
The same people not manipulating the POG before 9/11 will continue not to manipulate it.
knew-bee
(9/26/01; 15:06:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 62437)
POG contest
#### $290.90 #####
Wow, a chance to guess at gold's closing price without putting up margin money! I'm not used to that. The optimist in me wanted to take $875, but I see someone beat me to it.
The pessimist says, "It has to be below last week's close..."
AEL
(9/26/01; 14:54:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 62436)
A Republic, Not an Empire
"[T]he United States has unthinkingly embarked on a neo-imperial
policy that must involve us in virtually every great war of the
coming century -- and great wars are the death of republics...
[I]f we continue on this course of reflexive interventions,
enemies will one day answer our power with the last weapon of the
weak -- terror, and eventually cataclysmic terrorism on U.S. soil
with weapons of mass destruction. Then liberty, the cause of the
Republic, will itself be in peril. Yet any who raises a voice to
demand that the United States reassess these insanely extravagant
war guarantees, or at least stop adding to them, is shouted down
as an 'isolationist!' It is time to expose this malevolent myth of
'isolationism,' so our foreign policy debate can proceed on the
grounds of what is best for America." -- Pat Buchanan,
presciently, in 1999; from A Republic, Not an Empire
Leigh
(9/26/01; 14:38:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 62435)
Ron Paul's Speech Last Night in Congress
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm
Quick summary:
1. This war is about oil.
2. National ID cards are a terrible idea.
3. We should privatize the FAA because government bureaucracies are inefficient.
4. President Bush needs to take this conflict slowly, thoughtfully, and patiently. We could be walking into a catastrophy.
site steward
(9/26/01; 13:45:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 62434)
Almost amazing! Update to my (9/26/01; 05:12: - msg#: 62404)
Over eight hours ago, in the wee hours of today's markets, I explained how the Eurosystem's book value for gold was set three months ago at EUR 318.28 per ounce. I also mentioned that with the next quarterly revaluation imminent (this Friday), gold was currently trading at EUR 317 per ounce, and rhetorically asked for bets that it would clear its current book value in time for the revaluation (the revaluation is based on the London a.m. fix).
Believe it or not, now that the gold markets are closed for today, gold closed up at PRECISELY this benchmark price -- EUR 318.28!
With two more trading days until it is "cast in stone" for the next quarter on the Eurosystem books, any guesses on direction of gold's euro price from here?
As soon as you "get it" (big picture), you'll probably want to get it (gold). Call Centennial for help...and take action at great prices within shouting distance of 22-year lows.
R.
USAGOLD
(9/26/01; 13:35:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 62433)
Gold ends NY up after options expire,producers nervous
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010926/n26509095_1.html
Gold ends NY up after options expire, producers nervous
NEW YORK, Sept 26 (Reuters) - COMEX gold was buoyed on Wednesday by options-related buying and more talk that a few mining companies have been caught oversold by the safe-haven rally in gold since the terror attacks two weeks ago. "You've got some more trade buying coming in. They've been pretty good buyers all day," said a COMEX floor broker. The broker guessed the buying could be directly related" to reports that producers were buying back hedges.
- - - - - -
MK Comment: And the cry went up: "REMEMBER ASHANTI!"
Netking
(9/26/01; 13:28:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 62432)
Iran rules joining a US-led anti-terror coalition
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010927/world/afp/Two_weeks_after_US_terror__Iran_once_again_cries__Death_to_America_.html
Snippet:
After a two-week hiatus since the attacks on the United States, loud cries of "Death to America" rang out again in Iran on Wednesday as its leaders firmly ruled out joining a US-led anti-terror coalition.
Privately, several ordinary Iranians felt Tehran had missed the boat for patching up relations with Washington.
"You, who have always caused blows to Iran's interests, how dare you request help (from us) in order to attack the innocent Muslim nation of Afghanistan which has suffered and which is our neighbour," Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said.
"The Islamic Republic of Iran will not participate in any move which is headed by the United States," he said ending days of speculation on whether ties would thaw with Washington, which was one of Tehran's closest allies up until the 1979 Islamic revolution that led to links being severed . . . . "
Econoclast
(9/26/01; 13:16:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 62431)
#####$299.70#####
In the immediate future, the gold price will continue its controlled ascent in spite of the managers best efforts to bring it down. They will be met with continued physical demand leaving us at the end of Friday with some suspense for the weekend.
Econoclast
(9/26/01; 12:59:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62430)
******The World is a Different Place Today Than It was 9/10/01*****
FALSE
So far, the world has not changed substantially since the WTC terrorist incident. All the problems faced by the world on September 10, 2001 are still with us. Possible war in the MidEast, ignorance of the truth by U.S. citizens, structural stresses and flaws in the financial architecture, and the onward march of the power elite towards global institutions and loss of sovereignty (national and individual) are but a few of the problems we face.
The events of September 11 have served as a catalyst for change, however. That day brought to visibility past weaknesses in our leaders’ decision-making processes in such areas as foreign policy, domestic security, and management of our financial system.
The weakness present in our economy was not brought about by a few nuts with a death wish driving planes into a couple buildings. The weakness, likewise, has not been brought about by the inventive, industrious, and hard-working American people who will be forced to pay for and endure whatever policies our leaders decide for us as a result of that day. The weaknesses in our economy have been written about and expanded upon for years, here, in our tiny corner of sanity on the internet.
The events of September 11, 2001 have brought us as people, and a nation, to a "crossroads". Will the American people wake up, and start to glimpse some of the truths that brought us to that day? Will our leaders hear the rumbling and begin to act in our best interests? Or will the world progress on its previous path? Will the events of September 11 be used to speed up the timetable and provide a convenient excuse for bailing out the powerful financial entities whose reckless abuse of the system has put us all at risk?
I believe that the answers may be able to be discerned by watching the gold markets and the price of gold in the near term. Will it get squashed back down to its Clintonian/Rubin levels, signifying "business as usual" for the banking/corporate fascist crowd that has been operating throughout the world in the name of Capitalism (and giving all capitalists a bad name in the process)? Or will the price of gold break free of its shackles, signifying either a policy change or loss of control by our economy's managers?
The world has not yet had time to undergo serious changes as a result of September 11, 2001. That left-field event, however, was a catalyst and will most assuredly lead to changes for us and our world in the near future. In a previous life (1966), Alan Greenspan said that gold is economic freedom. We have heard a lot of talk about freedom lately. Will our leaders be able to see the writing on the wall and put OUR money where their mouths are? We will watch the gold market together in an attempt to find the answer.
Quixotic1
(9/26/01; 11:58:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62429)
Price of Gold
######## $303.50 ########
Just a guess....on a wing and a prayer; TA doesn't work anymore.
Gold for the good guys....Gary
AEL
(9/26/01; 11:51:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62428)
Another BW newsletter
(if there *were* a link, I would post it instead of the full text)
From: "Boudewijn Wegerif" <Boudewijn@whatmatters.nu>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: WHAT MATTERS-9a: Responses to review of 'The JMP Derivatives Monster'
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:04:33 +0200
WHAT MATTERS-9A September 26, 2001
Responses to my review and summary of 'The JPM Derivatives Monster'
________________________
Dear list members,
There has been a good response to my review and summary of Adam
Hamilton's article, 'The JPM Derivatives Monster' -- WHAT
MATTERS-9, September 19. A shorter version has been posted at
www.gold-eagle.com. This is the leading gold investor's site, with
a claimed visitor count of almost two million a month from 174
countries.
In my review, I suggest that the 9.11 disaster came at a time when
the derivatives market was of itself on the point of imploding,
and that the disaster may yet be cited as justification for
canceling the gold and derivatives debts of the banking system.
In the comment below, ex-banker John Kutyn suggests an
alternative, more extreme scenario. In his scenario, the collapse
of the prevailing fractional reserve banking system has been
anticipated by the money masters and vast sums of gold may have
been transferred from central banks to private individuals, "so
that when a financial system based on some sort of gold standard
is introduced, these individuals continue to control the money in
the world?" I find Kutyn's commentary useful for the insight it
gives into the gold trade and banking system.
Another interesting response to my review came from David Guyatt,
author of the online book, The Secret Gold Treaty --
www.deepblacklies.co.uk. Guyatt has spent many years investigating
the existence of unofficial 'black' gold, looted and buried in the
Philippines and Indonesia by the Japanese and Germans during World
War 11. There is said to be several times more of this unofficial
gold than official gold in the world. Much of the gold that was
buried in the Philippines has been recovered and is now secretly
held in often specially constructed underground bank vaults in the
U.S., Switzerland and elsewhere. The 'black' gold is also called
'off-ledger' gold. That is to say, the banks and central banks
that control the 'black' gold are said to run two sets of books --
one for public scrutiny and the other for private viewing. Guyatt
has collected evidence to show that 'off-ledger' gold is being
used to provide the collateral for covert programmes around the
world.
In Guyatt's view, come the collapse of the gold carry trade and
derivatives markets, "the pile of gold that exists off-ledger
will be transferred on-ledger". He writes, "I don't know how this
will be achieved without rocking the house of cards we call
official statistics, but I really don't see much alternative."
In his response, Guyatt refers to the 'Black Eagle Fund', made up
of gold stolen during WWII by the Japanese and Nazi's. This Fund,
he writes, "was the subject of secret treaties negotiated at
Bretton Woods in 1944. It was secretly used to prosecute the cold
war and also invigorate western economies ruined by the war. The
gold isn't listed on any treasury lists nor does it impact on any
official stats/figures, but nevertheless it exists in great
quantity. J P Morgan Chase, Citibank, Bank of America, UBS, SBC,
HSBC and numerous other big banks are sitting on these secret
deposits which are kept hidden off-ledger and remain
unacknowledged. All told, gold recovered from the Philippines by
1950 was deposited in 176 bank accounts located in 42 countries.
Why forgive a debt when sufficient quantities of gold exists to
make up the shortfall?"
No doubt there is a great quantity of off-ledger and still buried
gold and other treasures about, plundered from Asia and Europe
during World War 11. I have the book The Yamato Dynasty by
Sterling and Peggy Seagrave (Corgi Books, 1999) on my bookshelf,
in which the Japanese looting operation is described in some
detail. So I do not dismiss David Guyatt's scenario. However, I
feel more research is needed to uncover the full (accurate) story
of unofficial black gold.
A third response came from economist Michael Hudson, who
commented, "Yes, there is a vast amount of derivatives around. But
most are covered . . . The idea is logical, but is it realistic."
I am sure that the Nobel prize-winning operators of the
multi-billion dollar LTMC hedge fund thought their derivatives
well covered, till events proved otherwise.
In friendship,
Boudewijn Wegerif
What Matters Programme
Folkhogskola Vardingeby **
________________________
RESPONSE TO WHAT MATTERS-9 FROM JOHN KUTYN - jkutyn@voyager.co.nz
Dear Boudewijn,
Your comments on the manipulation of the gold market contain
elements of the truth. Indeed, on this issue, we are all in
darkness, though seeking the mystery of truth. There is an
alternate view, similar to yours, though possibly more extreme.
To understand what is happening in the gold market, one must first
understand why central banks are lending their gold. Now as any
banker knows, before you lend something, you must identify a
source of repayment.
So what is the source of repayment on these gold loans? For many
years now, gold demand has exceeded mine supply. These gold loans
have unleashed additional supply on the market, which has more
than met this supply deficit, and has caused the price of gold to
fall.
Now with any loan, the act of borrowing is only half of the
transaction, the other half is the repayment. The question now
arises on where those investors who borrowed and then sold gold,
will get the gold to repay these gold loans. These investors have
been major suppliers of gold. So what happens to a market in a
natural supply deficit when the suppliers of a secondary supply
not only cease to supply the market, but become major purchasers?
There must be a major rise in price that will bankrupt the gold
borrowers, resulting in the default of these loans.
Now the borrowers of this gold seek to offset some of this risk by
buying call options on gold that just happen to be written by
these same central banks. So the question must be asked, why
central banks are making these gold loans that are physically
impossible to repay, and at the same time providing the insurance
for investors to undertake these gold loans. What has happened is
the gold that central banks held has been transferred to
unidentified third parties, with no mechanism to have this gold
returned.
Moreover, by simply asking for these gold loans to be repaid,
central banks can cause a major increase in the price of gold.
Such is the state of the gold market, but why were these
transactions entered into? This can only be understood if one
first understands the nature of our present financial system, and
that those that create and control the money in the world are the
true rulers of this world. Now under our present financial system,
banks are the creators of money, they create money any time they
acquire an asset, whether that asset is a loan, government bond,
stocks, real estate, computers, etc. This system is based on
commercial fraud, resulting in the fraudulent transfer of
substantial wealth. All the banks' assets are acquired through
manipulating their balance sheets, creating new bank deposits that
did not exist prior to these transactions.
Besides the fraudulent transfer of wealth that they these
transactions create, they also create a financial system that is
based on a financial pyramid, where loans must grow at a much
faster rate than income, and reduction in loan growth will
collapse the system. If you were to plot a graph of total loan
growth vs. GDP growth for any G7 country for the last 50 years,
you would see such a relationship. If such a graph for the United
States is considered, the rate of loan growth vs. GDP growth is
now nearly vertical, meaning that the system is close to an
internal collapse.
Now if someone is engaged in a commercial fraud totaling tens of
trillions of dollars, and this pyramid is about to internally
collapse, it is quite likely that you would want to do two things.
The first is to create an external shock such as war, so that the
collapse is blamed on the external shock, and not the system
itself. This is often referred to as the business cycle. Secondly,
if you want the collapse to be so big so that the whole system
totally collapses, you would want to control the new financial
system that arises.
For example, with the collapse of fractional reserve banking, a
new system based on 100 percent reserve banking could be created.
But since the money in the new system would be created by
governments, and not private individuals, it would not be
particularly attractive to the present creators of money. However,
a financial system based on some sort of gold system would be most
attractive, especially if you controlled the gold. Which brings us
back to the question of gold loans. Might not these gold loans be
a method where vast sums of gold are transferred from central
banks to private individuals, so that when a financial system
based on some sort of gold standard is introduced, these
individuals continue to control the money in the world?
On the point of financial derivatives, it should be stressed that
these contracts do not reduce risk, but either transfer or create
risk. In some countries such as Canada, they are illegal and
against the Canadian Criminal Code. However, they are very
effective at manipulating markets. There may be another point to
consider. With the high leverage these contracts entail, in a
system collapse, these contracts will collapse the banking system.
Here again, the collapse of fractional reserve banking can be
blamed on derivative contracts, and not the system itself.
With the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York, one
might ask if this external shock, and those external shocks that
will now follow, were not planned on Wall Street, by those who
create and control the money in the world, as the external shock
required prior to the collapse of fractional reserve banking?
John Kutyn
September 20, 2001
________________________
** Boudewijn Wegerif
What Matters Programme
Folkhogskola Vardingeby
150 21 Molnbo, Sweden
Tel: +46.552.10327, till end September;
thereafter +46.552.21112
The What Matters Programme is an initiative by Boudewijn Wegerif
to spread information about what is happening in the world today,
and how things could be, given a schooling at all levels to free
the self and the world from debt/guilt oppression and money making
for its own sake -- a schooling in love. The programme trustees
are the executive collegiate of the Folkhogskola Vardingeby, an
Adult Education Residential College south of Stockholm --
www.vardinge.fhsk.se. Boudewijn is an internationally known
speaker on 'Love and Money Matters' and has led many workshops on
'The History and Psychology of Money'. He is also consulting
editor of monetary reform publications sponsored by the members'
owned, interest-free bank JAK - www.jak.se .
The Stranger
(09/26/01; 11:42:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 62427)
Goldfly
Thank you.
BR549
(9/26/01; 11:33:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62426)
Currrent Dec Futures GOLD Up $3.00
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/crb.html?sidenav=front
GOLD 100 OZ FUTR Dec01 294.800 3.000 1.030%
@cb2-
Try this link my friend.
Warmest Regards,
BR549
VanRip
(9/26/01; 11:17:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 62425)
PRICE OF GOLD
#####$290.10#####
Losses for certain banks and others will become greater and greater as POG moves above $290. Price has to be kept there to avoid losses and discourage buyers.
Gandalf the White
(9/26/01; 11:15:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 62424)
CB2 -- Please read again SLOWLY the "Rules" !
CoBra(too) (9/26/01; 11:05:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 62423)
Re: Price Guessing
===
Tis the Friday Close on COMEX of the Dec Future (GC1Z) !!
<;-)
--
PS: YES, Indeed the Kitco prices are "out-of-line" with reality and the other boards! And the price of Physical Coins are at least +$20 over whichever SPOT you choose.
CoBra(too)
(9/26/01; 11:05:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 62423)
Re: Price Guessing
@ USA GOLD - Sir MK, I guess we're talking about POG Spot price. Over the last few days it does seem the paper POG Spot Price as shown by Kitco, presumably derived from Nymex
and the international bullion spot as reported by the bulliondesk, for instance differ quite substantially.
Just a few moments ago Kitco reported POG up 1.75 at 291.75, while bulliondesk had it up 3,30 at 293.30 bid.
Regards cb2
sourdough
(9/26/01; 10:59:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 62422)
OIL PRICE MANIPULATION
Is there any reason to believe that while OPEC (being informed of the dire straights of the world economy)has agreed to hold down the price of oil, they, having access to this same info would not immediately convert those dollars to gold. A 20% drop in oil income could be balanced with an increase in gold price? It sure looks like gold demand is strong today.
Maybe the "other producers" should wise up and do likewise!
Leigh
(9/26/01; 10:47:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 62421)
Million Afghanis Try to Flee
http://www.thisislondon.com/dy.../story.html?in_review_id=459935&in_review_text_id=41200
The unprecedented humanitarian disaster gripping Afghanistan is today becoming more acute by the hour as more than a million people try to escape the threatened war, crowding against a sealed border.
Got gold for bribes?
The Hoople
(09/26/01; 10:19:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 62420)
Price Guess
#### $299.40 ####
Ralph Makem' Poorer and Larry Kudlow are bearish on equities, the moon must be in klutz. Surely an upside down world such as this would allow for something as zany as a run on $300. I would suspect even if we were in full scale nuclear attack Leonard Kaplan would say " I see limited gold upside as gold investors realize it isn't much of a safe haven in a total anihalation situation". And the BOE would hold their next auction on schedule.
BR549
(09/26/01; 10:01:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 62419)
The United States and six of the world's richest nations agreed to produce a coordinated plan to freeze assets of terrorist organizations.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,35133,00.html
Terrorists being added to "Bone Pile". The seven richest nations in the world cut off funds and terrorists organizations are forced to lay off murderers, suicide bombers, and chemical death specialists all over the world. The World Alliance's WAR Against Terrorism declares victory in first round of new economic war.
R Powell
(9/26/01; 09:37:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62418)
Optimistic Contest Entry
######## $297.60 ########
POG may come alive as investors remember that the Fed cut rates on Monday the 17th and will probably cut them again next week. Equity shares look scary and inflation adjusted returns of alternative investments are declining with the weakening dollar.
USAGOLD
(9/26/01; 08:59:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 62417)
A CALL TO CONTEST! A CALL TO CONTEST! A CALL TO CONTEST!
Knights and Ladies:
A POSTING CONTEST CALLING ON YOUR MOST REFINED SKILLS
(And I'll bet you think I've forgotten how much fun these
contests can be. . . .)
We have endured much over the past several weeks, and we have not
had a contest in a very long time -- two good reasons for a
little diversion, or maybe that's the wrong word. For what this
contest demands of its participants is some "soul" searching. . .
some "political economy" searching. . . some "belief" searching.
As such, many will not think it relaxation, but a call on our
greatest skills in erudition and posting. This, it no doubt will
be. There are those who might think this is not the time for a
contest, but I would say there could not be a better time. As we
reach into the depth of our own souls perhaps we can help our
fellow goldmeisters, our friends and associates.
The statement brought to this Table Round is as simple as it is
direct, and to start each post it must be answered "True" or
"False". All else follows.
The statement is this:
The world today is a different place today than it was 9/10/01.
TRUE or FALSE.
Each entry must bring the discussion around to gold (naturally)
and must be at least 50 words in length, though you can post as
much as you wish. One link in the customary place to illustrate
is both encouraged and allowed.
Each entry must be marked in the subject box as:
****The World Is a Different Place Today Than It was 9/10/01 ****
(Surrounded by stars)
Ignore gold and disqualify your entry.
The winner will receive a pre-1933 gold British sovereign from
the Royal USAGOLD TREASURY. The runners-up will receive each a
one-tenth ounce gold U.S. Eagle -- two will be awarded.
Each first-time poster --either in the price guessing contest or
the posting contest -- will receive a U.S. Silver Eagle. If you
are a first time poster, you must e-mail the
sitemaster@usagold.com notice that you are such. Please do not
try to slip one by us, each claim will be checked. We very much
encourage our lurkers to take this as an opportunity to
participate in the discussion. Silver has motivated many of our
best posters to post the first time. May it motivate you.
(Marie, to the vaults! Make ready the coin! Count up our stacks!
The Contest is About to Begin. . . . .)
PRICE GUESSING CONTEST:
In addition to the posting contest, there will be an additional
contest calling on participants price-guessing skills -- and what
better time than now than to call on those skills? Whoever is
closest to the settlement price of the December contract on the
Comex for the Friday close, September 28, 2001 wins a pre-1933
British sovereign. There will be no runners-up. He or she who
first claims a price owns it and no other can take it. Choose
carefully. Each price pick must be accompanied by 25 words why
this price is the one you choose. All entries must be on the
board no later than Thursday September 26, 2001 10AM mountain
time. No 25 word commentary, no prize. No late entries will be
accepted.
All price entries must be surrounded by #### signs, as follows:
#### $875 #####
The posting contest will go from this moment until Sunday,
September 30, 2001 midnight mountain time.
Only one entry per category per contestant.
I wish you all well, my friends, and good luck.
May the best poster win.
USAGOLD
(9/26/01; 08:58:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 62416)
Annie. . .
Hello Annie. It means Thursday. Tomorrow 10AM Mountain Time.
Sorry for the confusion.
And the posting contest ends this coming Sunday midnight Mountain Time.
Buena Fe
(9/26/01; 08:35:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 62415)
####$302.10#####
gold is actually price-less at the moment, because the "system" has an undisclosed, function ending problem that is being evaluated to prepare the "media damage control blitz", that will temporarily stem the panic about to unfold. Best Advice? panic before everyone else! buy gold.
Goldfly
(9/26/01; 08:09:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 62414)
Stranger, a link......
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/20/210621.shtml
EOM
G$
(9/26/01; 07:55:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 62413)
#############$295.50##############
I like the way that the gold stocks are trading. They seem to be wanting to drag the price of gold up with them...all be it kicking and screaming.
G$
site steward
(9/26/01; 07:40:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 62412)
"Pompous Prognosticators" -- an enlightening walk through history
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/prognost.html
Excerpts from the link, courtesy of Colin Seymour:
"There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash." --Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist, New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929
"This crash is not going to have much effect on business." --Arthur Reynolds, Chairman of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, October 24, 1929
"This is the time to buy stocks." --R. W. McNeel, market analyst, New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
"[the country is] on the edge of a golden age of prosperity..." --Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, June 24, 2001
-------------
With a track record as you see demonstrated here, is it any wonder we call it the dismal science? Indeed. That, or else it's always been a sham of a "pep rally" that sometimes fails to work -- in spectacular fashion.
R
Spartacus
(9/26/01; 07:16:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 62411)
(No Subject)
Copied from Gold-Eagle
(sydneygold) Sep 26, 05:40
Excerpt from Storm Watch by Jim Puplava Sept 21st
For those who haven't read this....Enjoy.
From Russia, Asia, and India to the Middle East and Mexico, the hard money forces are making a come back. Russia has introduced gold coins to compete with American dollars. In Russia the people spend rubles, but save in dollars. To compete with those dollars, they now have a choice of Russian-minted gold coins. Which do you think will become their savings preference? Mexico is also considering a silver-backed currency. The dollar-based fiat system is about to implode. It will take time, but it will eventually happen. The U.S., as a result of its continuous trade and current account deficit, has been exporting dollars around the world. Billions of those dollars are being held as reserves by the central banks around the globe. When the realization that the dollar's store of wealth is illusionary, they'll begin to export them back. Once those dollars arrive on American shores, they will be exchanged for physical assets. The consequences of those returned dollars will end the era of deflation. Hyperinflation will be the result.
Tannehill
(9/26/01; 07:03:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 62410)
Safe Haven Status Confirmed
Is POG manipulated? Maybe it is - maybe it isn't, but if it is, by keeping it in such a narrow trading range the stage is set for a movement toward gold.
I know this has been said before, but sometimes stating the obvious is worthwhile.
The old saying, 'Gold is a safe haven in trouble times' A terrible thing, the bombing of the WTC and Pentagon. The USA has got trouble. What did gold do? Well not much, ergo it is a safe haven. What do investors want when their investments are careening wildly out of control, a safe haven. It will take awhile to sink in, but gold's safe haven status has been proven once again.
Ergo, I probably will never make anything from my gold investments, I just use them as a safe haven, now silver that's a different story.
That's all from Tannehill
annie
(9/26/01; 07:01:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 62409)
POG Contest
Rules: "All entries must be on the board no later than Thursday September 26, 2001 10AM mountain time."
Sorry if this has already been covered, but does this mean Thursday, September 27, since today is Wednesday, September 26?
Thanks, annie
The Stranger
(9/26/01; 06:55:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62408)
Horatio
Horatio... Can you provide us with a source for your 9/26/01; 00:40:21MT - msg#: 62394? Thanks.
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 06:20:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 62407)
Terrorism Takes Toll On U.S. Insurers - More attacks could shut down industry
http://www.newsday.com/business/printedition/ny-bzins262384338sep26.story?coll=ny%2Dbusiness%2Dprint
Snippit:
The U.S. insurance industry claims it can pay the $40 billion tab stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks but warns it may need government help if there are further terrorist incidents.
Black Blade: Wonder how Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is holding up? The reinsurance side has to have been hammered. The US government would likely step in to help insurers if they took another hit. It was Daddy Bush who stepped in with a "helping hand" for the S&L's (including son Neal's S&L problem).
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 06:13:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62406)
Investors take money out of stock funds in August amid markets' swoon
http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/09/24/mutualfunds/wires/funds_re/
$8B pulled from funds -
Snippit:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Investors pulled money out of U.S. stock mutual funds in August for the second month in a row, and September also looks poised for withdrawals as stocks have tumbled further, fund tracker Lipper Inc. said on Monday. Investors drained about $8 billion from stock mutual funds last month amid broad declines in major U.S. stock market gauges, Lipper said. The August outflow was the biggest withdrawal since March, when investors pulled about $20.6 billion from stock funds.
Black Blade: Running for the exits. And this was before the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
Black Blade
(9/26/01; 06:08:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 62405)
OPEC Taking No Action to Stem Oil Price Plunge
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010926/business_energy_opec_dc_1.html
Snippit:
VIENNA (Reuters) - OPEC producers prepared on Wednesday to leave oil supplies unchanged at the expense of their own budgets rather than take any blame for helping tip the world into recession.
Black Blade: OPEC must be feeling the political pressure.
site steward
(9/26/01; 05:12:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 62404)
Eurosystem gold reserves steady, foreign currency reserves decline
In last week's portfolio adjustments among the Eurosystem of central banks, the net position in foreign currency was decreased by EUR 100 million to EUR 272.4 billion.
By contrast, the value of gold reserve assets remained untouched at EUR 128.229 billion (12,531 tonnes).
I expect to see significant adjustments in next week's consolidated financial statement -- in light of the quarterly mark-to-market revaluation operations for these foreign currency and gold reserves which will occur this coming Friday.
From the last quarter, as of today the dollar has thus far fallen from $0.848 per euro to $0.922 per euro. This will diminish the book value of the Eurosystem's foreign currency assets.
Meanwhile, the Europeans can't be terribly pleased that the the paper-dominated gold markets have thus far handed them a stagnant gold market (as priced in euros) to compensate them for the dollar's fall. Last quarter, an ounce of gold was valued by the LBMA's "free market" (in Rothschild's London fixing office) at EUR 318.28. Currently, gold is being quoted slightly off at EUR 317. Wanna bet it clears the previous mark by Friday a.m.?
Hopefully, this gives you a better idea regarding the future of Eurosystem support for honest gold markets and valuation.
Currently the gold market remains fundamentally the same (perhaps stressed a bit more with the passage of time), that is to say, it is still dominated by paper trading. However, through these commentaries you should be starting to see that the political will with respect to gold is truly "not as before", as ANOTHER might say. In time, the market will naturally reflect this change, now likely sooner rather than later -- thanks to the added stresses of 9-11.
Randy
Netking
(9/26/01; 04:54:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 62403)
The woes of Pasminco
http://afr.com/companies/2001/09/26/FFXA7EK02SC.html
The silver bugs will know Pasminco, The Melbourne-based miner was placed under voluntary administration last week after its banks would not agree to a six-month extension of its debts, which total $2.9 billion.
Adminstrators however have secured a $300 million line of credit to keep Pasminco running until at least the end of next year. The company owes $1.7 billion to 36 financiers, $750 million on foreign exchange hedging, $250 million to trade creditors and $200 million to workers. . . .
*The above figures may be current debts that could be hot to handle even with the $300 million life line, but in the contingent liabilities department no count can be made for the massive PM short position being carried . . .
Pasminco has had a demise from a $3 billion company to one now valued at $56 million on the Australian sharemarket.
*** Let the final quotes be from those really in the know;
"Clearly there has been some bad management decisions in the past," Mr Shorten said. "They've got too much debt, they've made poor calls on foreign currency hedging.(You aint seen nothing yet if the PM shorts are counted too!-Netking)
"I think their eyes were bigger than their business tummy - they went for more than they could realistically chew off."
site steward
(9/26/01; 04:31:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 62402)
CIPD's chief economist says ‘Business as usual’ will never be the same again
http://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/Editorial/news/economic.asp
This article is good food for thought for those of you yet mulling over your various entries to MK's latest essay contest...
Spartacus
(9/26/01; 04:23:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62401)
(No Subject)
http://www.capitalinsight.co.uk/Home/Article.asp?ArticleFile=250901bigdeal.pdf
Big Deal or New Deal?
Netking
(9/26/01; 04:20:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 62400)
"Decline in the global supply of gold looming as mine activity wanes and some central banks exhaust their sales" - Gold Fields
Snippet:
"South Africa's Gold Fields Ltd said on Wednesday a decline in the global supply of gold was looming as mine activity wanes and some central banks exhaust their sales.
"It is coming clear there is a mine supply slowdown coming," Gold Fields chairman and chief executive Chris Thompson said.
"It's a few years out, but it is on the edge of the radar screen and moving down towards us noticeably," Thompson told a media and analysts' teleconference.
World demand for gold by consumers was 3,946 tonnes last year against mine production of 2,573 tonnes, industry figures show.
Thompson also said that gold sales by central banks outside of the Group of 18 who agreed in 1999 to limit sales, were now only occurring sporadically.
The agreement has come to be called the Washington Agreement, involving Western European banks who agreed to limit sales to a total of 400 tonnes a year for five years.
"These central banks outside of the Washington Agreement who wanted to mobilise their gold appear in large measure to have done it already," he said.
The possibility of sales from central banks -- collectively estimated to hold up to 50,000 tonnes of gold or more than 15 times annual world demand -- have weighed on bullion prices for decades. . . . "
The Invisible Hand
(9/26/01; 03:34:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 62399)
Asset outside of the System
http://www.bbc.co.uk
The BBC World Service (East Asian) World Update radio programm just ran an interview with Andy Smith of Mitsui (sp) Commodities.
I couldn't get much from the interview because the internet connection wasn't good (and because I was surprised by hearing a pro-gold view). But I heard that gold does good in times of fear and that financial services aren't set up to buy gold. I liked the definition as asset outside of the system.
Netking
(9/26/01; 01:38:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 62398)
Fed may have pumped up to $100 billion into the US economy since 9-11
'Global Strategy and Investment Trends'(David Fuller) makes some interesting comment on the markets and in particular the level of perceived support by the Fed. Copied here in part - Netking
------------------------------------------------------------
"A technical rally has commenced but fear and uncertainty will remain in the bear market's latest downward leg most stock markets had fallen since May. Trends for the main indices began to accelerate following breaches of the March-April lows and this turned into a rout after the heinous terrorist attacks on 11th September.
Heavy selling persisted through Friday the 21st,following widely publicised rumours that the FBI had reason to suspect a second wave of terrorist attacks on Saturday the 22nd.I would not be surprised if the US Federal Reserve purchased index futures on Friday, in one of its secondary roles,which is to help maintain orderly markets. We may never know because such action would not be publicised but Greenspan has done this before. Fortunately,there were no further attacks on the 22nd, enabling a rally to commence on the 24th, in response to one of the most oversold conditions that I have ever seen in 36 years of monitoring markets.
***According to estimates,the Fed may have pumped up to $100 billion into the US economy since the attacks. If true,this would compare very favourably with the post-LTCM collapse/Russian debt default of 1998 and the year end 1999 liquidity injection in response to all those Y2K scare stories. That latter move was a big mistake, further inflating the TMT bubble and eventually contributing to the global economic slowdown, as Greenspan and other central bankers drained liquidity and raised interest rates last year. The difference today,compared to the 1998 and 1999 liquidity injections,is that the economy is weak and has just suffered two horrendous blows -economic and especially
psychological. Consequently there is no prospect of a similar-scale stock market rally to what occurred in the late 1990s.However,the Fed 's latest reflation can only assist an oversold rally.Beyond that, global stock markets have much to worry about,commencing with the simultaneous slide of all economies towards recession,woefully late and/or inadequate policy responses in Euroland and Japan,hazards associated with the necessary counter terrorism efforts,and the continuing risk of further attacks against the US and possibly its allies.
Economic news will remain weak well into 2002. Nevertheless, having long said that economic spokesmen for governments,the IMF and most banking/broking firms were too optimistic about global GDP growth, I now believe that recent and pending monetary and fiscal stimulative measures by the US and other countries will end the recession more quickly than would have otherwise occurred,albeit from a somewhat deeper level than would have pertained if there had been no terrorist attacks.(end)"
site steward
(9/26/01; 00:59:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 62397)
Manipulation of currencies, dollar to falter
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010925/n25595785_1.html
NEW YORK, Sept 25 (Reuters) - The Japanese currency has risen as much as 5 percent against the dollar since the Sept. 11 terror attacks on the United States made investors increasingly reluctant to hold the once-cherished greenback.
After multiple warnings, the Bank of Japan -- acting on behalf of the Ministry of Finance -- has waded into foreign exchange markets on four separate occasions in the past week to weaken the yen at a time when Japan's exporters and stagnant economy can ill-afford the luxury of a strong currency.
-------------
And in light of all that, look at the following comments from the perspective of the dollar. Reuters writes:
"the Bank of Japan appears to be having success, at least temporarily. ...... But [Bank of America currency strategist Guillermo] Estebanez said it was far from clear whether Japan could hold the yen back indefinitely."
Meaning, despite the Japanese monetary authorities striving to weaken the yen with abundant supply through unsterilized intervention, the comparative fate of the dollar is never the less looking to weaken -- even against this yen!
This comment caps it off, and points to your imminent need for gold as a savings diversification:
"Beyond the issue of fiscal half-year flows, the Bank of Japan may be powerless should currency markets continue to sell the dollar due to a bleak outlook in the United States."
R.
PS. Hey there, George. I enjoyed your post a few hours ago...great overview.
mhchuck
(9/26/01; 00:47:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 62396)
Market Talk, All: NASDAQ
Remember this one? "Where do investors find these companies? The moderator's voice becoming guttural and loud, NAAAAAZZDAQQQ! THE STOCK MARKET FOR THE NEXT HUNDED YEARS"
mhchuck
Belgian
(9/26/01; 00:46:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 62395)
@ Invisible # 62367
An effort for interpretation on the GATA post :
9th of october = Howe's D-Day ! The already postponed opportunity-day for all Gold-parties to decide on the direction of the Gold-Management. Is everything ready for openeness to the general public ? How much of control is left available and what will amount of control will be left, once the beast agonizes ? As if I'm thinking in their place .
The Swiss have 1.000 tonnes (out of 1.300) of Gold, left for sale. At a rate of 1 tonne a day, added to 10 tonnes physical, provided by the goldminers, the Swiss are an important factor, too often overlooked. Since they decided publicly, not to sell through BIS, I suppose (only conclusion left),they want to optimize (sale at one accumulator-?), the revenue of their sales and their cooperation (if any) with the Gold-Management, remains without any indication.
There was a rumour that Bolivia had to jump in for help with their mini stash of physical.
GATA can easely become a recognized Gold-Hero, overnight if the politicians (and media), who do recognize their point (at last), are willing and able to push things through. Here, there are no such things as guarantees, only probabilities and chances.
If the present, steady, buying-pressure, should increase...things might get out of controll and the manipulators would loose face and risk repercussions. I suspect that they have some handles to pressurize the Swiss.
But what do we, lilliputans, know, on this high level power-plays ?
So we are left with the conclusion that GATA-activists, have been calculating the chances and judge them favorably.
What are you reading between the lines ?
Horatio
(9/26/01; 00:40:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 62394)
(No Subject)
- Sir John Templeton, one of the world's most respected
investment advisers, says that the downfall in the stock
market over the past year is bigger than the crash of
1929, and he doesn't expect a recovery anytime soon.
- In an interview last weekend with NewsMax.com,
Templeton said the run-up in market was "the biggest
financial insanity ever in any nation in history."
Templeton said he is warning investors that the recent
"technology bubble...was far bigger than any previous
bubble of any nation ever...now is not the time to buy
common stocks."
MarkeTalk
(9/26/01; 00:10:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 62393)
Wall Street's new siren song
While watching "Dateline" tonight over dinner, my attention was grabbed by a new commercial for NASDAQ. It starts out with a scene of the NASADAQ outdoor screen in New York City and is accompanied by a guitar solo, which quickly turns into a full rock-n-roll style song. As the music plays, famous names of high-flying, high-tech companies appear on the NASDAQ screen. It is humorous although intentional that a lot of these names (e.g. Sun Microsystems, Ericsson, Amazon.com) are now members of the "single-digit club." If you understand advertizing, people buys things based on emotions rather than logic. Wall Street must be desperate when it hires an ad agency to come up with a slick promotion with overtones of a rock video. This approach gets the attention of Americans during a very popular TV show (Dateline) and then appeals to their gut. Surely no rational thinking human would want to own these stocks as the economy implodes, and whatever questionable earnings were reported by these companies now disappear into the ozone.
ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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