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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/26/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Black Blade (06/26/01; 23:49:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 56952) Asia In The Red http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u Asian markets don't look too good tonight. Nikkei continues to slide into the abyss. Perplexed (06/26/01; 23:42:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 56951) ORO Silent Weapons Thanks ORO for posting the link. As I stated, my copy of the booklet was written in 1979, and came into my possession in 1981, so the history, as related in the website, is missing a few years. While you obviously scrutenized the writing in the relationship between the principles of electrical engineering and economics, I was more interested in concept, methods and employment of same. The result of twenty years of evidence indicating the presense of manipulation in an almost verbatim manner is very disturbing. The computer revolution, while making possible the control, also, also rendered any possibility of maintaining the secrecy necessary to establish a peaceable (more or less) transition, has rendered the plan useless. The years of distortion will instead,in my opinion, destroy virtually all major power structures, along with a very large number of the present population.With those remaining to glue the pieces back together, the lessons learned concerning what is and what is not honest money will not be forgotten. Gold at that time will shine.The ultimate minority is the minority of one, each individual. And the only viable form of government is that originating with self which is then transmitted through the collective. SIERRA MADRE: At the time of our nations founding, although the Jewish and Christain churches, many people allege,were founded upon the ten commandments. Combined they had had five thousand years to proclaim the equality of mankind. However, both still either advocated or suborned slavery, the divine right of kings to rule, women as second class citizens, and elitism of race, creed, culture, and wealth, all combined with a strong admonishment "to obey those with the rule over you. The Declaration of Independence by declaring that no one had the rule over another was blasphemy. Viewed in this context, the American Revolution was itself an abomination to God.As we, the inhabitants of the nation dedicated to the laws of nature and natures God, (as proclaimed within the Declaration of Indendence) have unlocked the secrets and adhered to the principles of these laws, we have, among other accomplishments, plotted the course of planets, walked on the moon, discovered the schematic of our human bodies, determined the true cause of disease to bemicroscopic life, not evil spirits as proclaimed by the church,. etc. Yet many scientist of their day were imprisoned, tortured, and killed by priesthood's of Jehovah God, for the audacity to proclaim the laws of nature; laws such as: "the earth is round not flat"and "the earth revolves around sun, not visa versa" contrary to Jehovah's "truth" as proclaimed within the same bible as the ten commandments. The first attempt at the suppression of knowledge, as well as the first decree to render unquestioned obedience to authority, is found in the first chapter of the ChristianBible. According to this narrative, God created beings IN HIS OWN IMAGE AND AFTER HIS OWN LIKENESS, beings, endowed with unlimited potential, as we have since proven.Then, although making information accessible and appealing, after first declaring failure to render unquestioned obedience to authority a "sin" punishable by death, denied them access to that information necessary to achieve their potential; in essence, rendering the creation of man, an exercise in futility. SIERRA, with all due respect, that doesn't make sense! In my view, the denial of the potential of his created image, would equate to denial by the Creator of himself. That may be your version of God, but it is neither mine nor many other posters to this forum.Thanks to the creation of United States, you have freedom of religion, I freedom from it. You see only God furnishing a way out of the current world problems.I see an entity created as an extension of the diety, with all the attendant capibility. You look at the human body and declare the fact that it has a soul. I look at the human body and see it only as a vehicle required so long as I am on earth. It possess no sacred qualities, is in constant evolution, its purpose to facilitate my mission, of the gathering of experiences and information, which returns to the creator upon its death.Perhaps we are both wrong, but it works for me!Perplexed e Black Blade (06/26/01; 23:26:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 56950) "Interesting" Take From Corporate Newsletter This is the last 2 paragraphs from a corporate newsletter from Dynamic Oil (DYOLF), one of several small cap petroleum companies that I follow:"It's no coincidence that the largest, most aggressive budget in our history comes at a time when the energy crisis is worsening and natural gas prices could equal or surpass last winter's level. As Vice-President Dick Cheney has said, there is No short or even medium-term solution. The ONLY solution is more production to meet demand, and this will take many years to fulfill.To judge from articles in Barron's, The Wall Street Journal and other publications, stock market analysts are coming to realize the long-term nature of this energy shortage, They're also realizing that natural gas is the more interesting commodity because - unlike oil - it's dependent primarily on domestic production.The coming months will be interesting!Black Blade: Took the words right out of my mouth. In essence we are looking at the end of "cheap energy." The fuel of the last Great Bull Market is going up in price and the tank is on empty. "Interesting" indeed! The commodity bull is about to take off, and since most of us can store barrels of oil or tanks of NG, physical PMs fit the mold very nicely. US_Army(RET) (06/26/01; 22:56:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56949) ME...Who will pay? --- we all will of course. RE: ORO (06/26/01; 19:45:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 56937 Oro…Good point Sir! Same reason for U.S. troops in So. Korea and Balkans.---But ME is so key to "our" future…if we (and the rest of the developed world) expect to live this standard of living for even just a little bit longer, not to mention the "justice" issue, stronger measures necessary and needed now.Only way out of near term "disaster" I can see, and it is quite a far-flung fantasy…but eventually will have to be done anyway…so why not do now and "save" a lot of lives…is the immediate invasion/occupation, by "force" if necessary, by an international force (UN?) of Israel and Occupied Palestine…forceful and complete separation (if necessary) of the two parties. (Sorry…all "settlers move elsewhere else")…and the placing of Jerusalem under a international governing body of some sort, guaranteeing freedom of worship and living for all who wish to go there and "practice" or call it home.Of course a number of other issues would have to be resolved for any hope of a continuing "peace". The Golan would have to go back to Syria…Instead of using the 8 Billion+ US $ annually to arm Israel that is currently being stolen from American Taxpayers…use it to build/rebuild a viable Palestinian infrastructure, so that it has some hope of standing on its own as an independent state.There is enough gold and future oil wealth in the Region now to develop it into a really first rate economically healthy region. But…always the "but"…someone with a lot more integrity and "imagination" then any of the current "western" rulers would have to lead the way and be willing to commit the requisite force to accomplish the desired goal. Hopefully one could be found somewhere. Would not matter to me if he was a Kurd, Chinaman, or "So. African."Some such scenario will eventually come to pass…even if the world has to wait for the nuclear glow to reside to make the place inhabitable once again.I for one hope that it does not have to take that long.Regards,SLDPS I, for one, would certainly be willing to "contribute" a great percentage of personal "stored" wealth in support of such a venture. Expect many others in world would also. Black Blade (06/26/01; 22:50:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 56948) BoE issues derivative warning http://markets.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3ZCIE0DOC&live=true&useoverridetemplate=ZZZ6MJPM90C&tagid=ZZZDQOQD20C&subheading=UK%20equities Snippit:The Bank of England has warned that the fast-growing credit derivatives market could concentrate risk in ways hidden from regulators, posing a threat to the stability of the few international financial institutions that dominate the market. In its half-yearly financial stability review to be published on Thursday, the UK central bank will say that a weakening global economy could test the banks, securities houses and insurers involved in credit derivatives. The Bank will also publish research showing the cost of banking crises to be larger than previously thought, with the subsequent loss of output amounting to between 15 and 20 per cent of GDP. The research also shows it takes much longer for developed economies to recover from the after-effects than emerging markets where the greater scale of banking crises forces much quicker responses.Black Blade: Whoa!!! Black Blade (06/26/01; 22:36:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56947) US may already be in recession http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3PYIJ7DOC&live=true&tagid=IXLYK5HZ8CC Snippit:The US may have already stumbled into its first recession in a decade, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the official arbiter of the country's business cycles. In a departure from its recent statements, the bureau says for the first time that "data normally considered by the committee indicate the possibility that a [US] recession began recently".Black Blade: Ditto! Black Blade (06/26/01; 22:31:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 56946) THE FED'S MAGIC TONIC ISN'T WORKING By JOHN CRUDELE http://nypostonline.com/business/33372.htm Snippit:June 26, 2001 -- THE Federal Reserve is meeting this week, and by tomorrow we should have our sixth interest rate decrease of the year. Six! In just six months. But no matter how cheap borrowing money becomes, companies aren't going to take out loans to build facilities they don't need. And while consumer confidence still remains relatively high, rational people aren't going to make unnecessary purchases at a time when they fear layoffs.Black Blade: Despite all the spin, the US economy is in recession. Inflation is also higher than admitted due to dubious statistical measures and filters. There may be some ancillary "good economic news," however, the bottom line is that corporate earnings are pathetic. What? The J-man gone? Bummer. I know most of us have pushed the envelope at times. Hmmm... megatron (06/26/01; 22:14:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 56945) SteveH The problem is never greed. Greed is good. The problem is the disconnect in the minds of politicians about what they 'think' they 'should' be doing and what they 'actually' 'should' be doing. Certainly socialist/facist actions like creating a central bank and empowering it to create paper money beyond the reach of congress is one of the kinds of events people will regret. Big time. Politics must be stopped, and dis-empowered, with harsh, minimum, criminal sentences for overstepping boundaries. Caning, anyone? SteveH (06/26/01; 21:46:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 56944) Martin Mayer and the Stranger may actually have answered the question of what enabled this fine mess we have gotten into. Some said it was derivatives, others said it was the Federal Reserve. Perhaps. But until the early 70's and then again until the early 90's alot can be said that the growth in money supply and credit expansion was tame or tamed. But as it has been pointed out, the GSE's and the money markets seem to have become much the same as banks when it came to creating credit. I believe that the one event that may have contributed to the credit bubble and stock bubble may very well be that the Fed has lost control and there is a monetary policy without direction or leadership, except for a windage of greed that constantly pulls the rudder in the direction of more credit or that removes day by day the power to steer. The answer as to the one event that enabled the great bubble of the late 20th century, early 21st century may be in fact a lack of monetary policy or the inability to enforce an economic policy and it is that which opened the spiggots because those in power in the Clinton administration seemed to have figured out what strings to pull on to make unfettered credit expansion happen in order to make themselves look great, but in the long run, they opened the pandora box and we may all yet pay that price of killing the power of being able to steer the ship for the sake of loading it up with more and more cargo of credit. Perhaps it has become too heavy for any steerage way, but you see my point, eh?Greed is the answer, perhaps. What say you? The Stranger (06/26/01; 21:27:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 56943) From Today's Wall Street Journal June 26, 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CommentaryThe Fed's Faded GloryBy Martin Mayer, a guest scholar at the Brookings Institution. His book, "The Fed," has just been published by the Free Press.If there is going to be "monetary policy," and almost everybody these days agrees that there ought to be monetary policy, the hard question is the target that policy should try to hit. There are three simple answers -- economic activity (technically, gross domestic product), inflation, and employment. The Federal Reserve system, which creates and enforces monetary policy in the U.S., is enjoined by law to promote growth, eliminate inflation, and increase employment, all at once. To achieve these goals, it has exactly one tool: It can raise or lower the interest rate that financial institutions pay when they borrow from each other overnight. It's hard to hit three targets with one bullet, and easy to kill the wrong one.A Theatrical EnterpriseYears ago, the Fed had much more to work with. William McChesney Martin, as chairman of the Fed in the 1950s, could and did change the reserves banks had to keep at the Fed, increase or reduce activity at the "discount window" through which the Fed provided money for banks to lend, change the "margin requirements" that determined how much credit was available to stock market speculators, and set maximum interest rates banks could pay for deposits at a time when the only way banks could increase their total assets was by drawing new deposits or borrowing from each other. And in those days lending by the banks provided about two-thirds of the financing of American commerce and industry. Banks' asset portfolios were stuffed with government bonds inherited from the budget deficits of the World War II years, and the value of these bonds fluctuated according to the interest rates the Fed could control. By relatively small movements of the rates, Martin could keep inflation under control while forcing the Eisenhower administration to accept what John F. Kennedy in the 1960 election would deride as a "stop/go" economy.And it was all done behind closed doors: The public did not know for six months or more what decisions were made at the meetings of the Federal Open Market Committee, and even after six months the revelations were obscurely phrased to provide a minimum of information. What the Fed did affected what the banks did, which affected what the real economy did, which later affected prices in the stock market.Former Fed governor Sherman Maisel reported that when President Richard Nixon joked in the Oval Office about how he hoped for easier money from Arthur Burns, whom he was swearing in as the new Fed chairman, all the people from the Fed were "extremely uncomfortable," because they had already given orders to their underlings to lower rates, and the underlings were doing it, but nobody knew. Banks and Wall Street houses hired "Fed watchers" to read the entrails.Today, banks provide maybe one-fifth of the financing of American commerce and industry, and they are armored against a Fed trying to control them. "Reserve requirements" are meaningless, because most bank reserves are "vault cash" in ATM machines that would have to be stocked anyway. Banks get most of the money they lend by borrowing in the money markets, and the discount window is inoperative, because banks are scared that if they are seen borrowing from the Fed everyone will assume the market has locked them out. Meanwhile, banks can buy or sell "derivatives" that enable them to continue quite painlessly doing (or not doing) whatever it was the Fed wanted them to stop (or do).The Fed, in other words, has much less real power than it had a generation ago. So it has become a highly theatrical enterprise, eager to seize attention and create attitudes. Where once the puppet-master was behind the scenes concealing the strings, the spin-master is now out front, announcing decisions and reasons for them while the market is open -- sometimes, indeed, just before the expiration of options and futures contracts, leveraging the exposures of stock speculators for the purposes of the central bank.The problem with all this is not the confusion of government and theater, because governing is in many ways a theatrical art, but the absence of any viable economic theory to explain why the Fed's jiggling with overnight interest rates should have more than a marginal effect on economic activity. Since January, the Fed has knocked 2.5 percentage points from the overnight interest rate -- and looks likely to cut by another half point this week -- but the yield on AAA-rated corporate bonds has actually risen by about 0.25%, and it's the long rates that most affect investment planning.From David Hume in 18th-century Scotland to John Maynard Keynes in the 1930s, it was assumed that if you put more "money" into an economy, people felt richer and spent more, which stimulated growth. But it was also assumed that if you raised interest rates you increased savings (people were paid more to save) and if you lowered interest rates you reduced the international value of your currency (by discouraging foreign investment). Also that the later stages of an upswing in the economy reduced productivity ("diminishing returns") as you began to plow the less productive farmland and hire the less efficient workers. None of this has been happening.Monetary theory as a stepsister of general economic theory incorporated and has retained many of these now false rules of thumb, inserting arbitrary correctives as needed, and today the subject is a mess. Technological change has deep-sixed the old monetary theories without floating a new one. Laurence Meyer, who was in the forecasting business before he became a Fed governor, said not long ago that the Fed's own models assumed that its changes in interest rates were a "policy reaction" to developments in the real economy, not the main drivers of anything. In his own models, he said, "real interest rates are determined by forces of productivity and thrift" -- not by the Federal Open Market Committee.Three years ago, Alan Greenspan told a meeting in Washington that the Fed had the best economists and mathematicians in the world, so its models were the best in the world, "and the fact that they have been wrong for fourteen straight quarters does not mean they will be wrong in the fifteenth quarter."Graveyard WhistlingBecause there is no viable theory, there is no way to predict whether the next stimulus by the Fed will promote economic activity, increase the prices of goods and services (the "cost of living") or raise the prices of assets (the "stock market bubble"). Mr. Greenspan's Fed has been lucky: Massive stimulation to pave over the problems of the 1990s went almost entirely into asset prices. But inflation has been pushing 3.5%, a level at which Martin's Fed went into crisis mode. Mr. Greenspan's repeated statements that inflation isn't a worry have the sound of whistling past a graveyard, especially because the tune harmonizes only with a decline in energy prices, which may be many months away.When oil prices jumped in 1973, the U.S. suffered a decade of stagflation -- low growth in national product and painful increase in prices. It could happen again. Looking at monetary policy and what it does, Mr. Greenspan must now consider whether the benefit of pushing the stock market up a little is worth the growing risk that this time the Fed will be fueling inflation. rc (06/26/01; 21:26:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 56942) @SIERRA MADRE & Max Rabbitz - Aids I agree with Sierra Madre, this theory of Aids if full of holes. There are sero-negative people dying by what is called Aids. Yet they have none of the antibodies of Aids.On the other hand there are millions of sero-positive people who, in fact, are not at risk at all. They were not sick until given some of the anti-Aids concoctions.Also one should be aware that malaria can produce a sero-positive reaction. Ditto for flu vaccine. Some people may turn alternatively positive or negative without reason. Moreover, African people do not die from the same opportunistic diseases one observes in America.As Sierra Madre said, in Africa, people are dying from malnutrition, lack of hygiene and lack of medicines. They are dying by the millions for the last 50 years. Yet, all of a sudden some do-gooders have discovered Aids.Yes! It seems that " prothease inhibitors " are working.They used to say the same thing about AZT and other poisons. But now they say the mixture is deadly and can't be administered for a long time. I suspect that most of these people would have fared as well without anything (Placebo?). No way to find out. So, I question their figures, because we have been lied all along. We have been brainwashed to believe that we are all at risk when, in fact, only a particular group of people really is. All the opportunistic diseases related to Aids are the result of a disabled immune system. Which can result for a number of reasons, many of which we are unaware off. What can be asserted, however, is that the destruction of the immune system is the result of unhealthy ways of life. Whether self-inflicted (America and Western countries) or involontarily ( Africa and part of South East Asia). To close the subject, let me make a comparison. Our immune system is like a battery car. It must be recharged all the time. Leave its power go too low and your battery is dead. Good for the garbage dump. Same thing for our immune system. Have a good night! megatron (06/26/01; 20:48:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 56941) BTW My last post was in no way directed at any of the honorable people who post here. Just for fun. :^) megatron (06/26/01; 20:42:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 56940) MaxRabbitz Max,Max,Max, your makin' way too much sense'son. Stop usin' that logic and git yourself to a segragatin'. ;^) Canuck (06/26/01; 20:11:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 56939) Joke So Einstein shows up at the 'Pearly Gates' and the god-like figure asks him, "Who are you?""I am Albert Einstein!""Sure you are, prove it"So Einstein rhymes off his theory of relativity and he is let in. The next day Picasso shows up and is asked who he is."I am Picasso, the reknowned artist"."Sure you are, prove it".So Picasso scratches up a marvelous sketch and he is let in. A couple days later Bill Clinton shows up and demands entry."I am Bill Clinton, President of The United States and engineer of the greatest economic thrust in the history of the world.""Sure you are, we've had Einstein and Picasso this week. No way do we get a famous President as well.""Who are they?""Hey Bill, how are ya?" Max Rabbitz (06/26/01; 20:09:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 56938) OT: US_Army(RET) Let's give the Middle East back to the Turks. Why do the "Holy People" have to build their temples on the top of other peoples' Holy sites? Seems everybody does it including early Christians building on pagan sites, Catholics building churches on sacred Druid monuments (Glastonbury etc.) and Islam on a sacred Jewish temple and the ruins of various Christian Churches. Just the desire to gain stature with the locals? The struggle for religious supremacy? Or do they just like to fight?The world worked better for many ethnic groups during the 19th Century before nationalism and religious zealotry inflamed the common man. Now it's the struggle for monolithic states composed of only one kind of people who can only see one point of view. As the populations explode and poverty increases more will turn to the holy people to save them. The holy people will point to a Great Satan and gird their people for battle. The people will prepare for slaughter and expect the rewards of heaven. God may have a different view. I expect God likes Gold. Get some while you can. On this we agree. ORO (06/26/01; 19:45:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 56937) US_Army(RET) - hell to pay but who would pay it? It stands to reason that the purpose for US and Brit troops in oil land is exactly that which you noted. Even with sabotage, the oil wells of Arabia would do quite well under US military control. It was rumored too, that a contingency plan was in place by Israel, put together in the time of Nazer's blockade of the Red Sea in the buildup towards the '67 war to take over the Arabian oil in order to induce Western interest in Israel's fate without resorting to nuclear threats, which would first target exactly these Arabian assets.The US and Brit troops may just be kept there for this reason as well, to keep them in harm's way."No choice" is not an acceptable alternative even to the global governance crowd at State. Max Rabbitz (06/26/01; 19:18:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 56936) Gold, Aids, and Conspiracy The existence of conspiracies such as that against gold makes it much easier to believe that other conspiracies also exist. I do not believe Aids is one. The greatest support for a viral cause is the present survival and health of Western Aids patients. The protease inhibitors work. They target the enzymes needed to activate the viral proteins used in replication. They inhibit these enzymes by binding tightly to them. Thus the virus can not replicate. The patients return to good health but must continue the protease inhibitor "cocktails" or suffer a relapse. Just a few short years ago the news was full of dying aids patients in San Francisco and elsewhere. No longer. Did they all suddenly get good nutrition? South African gold mines need healthy workers. South Africa needs healthy people. Many miners are away from their families for extended periods and look for temporary escape from hard labor. They need to be told the truth. Aids is a sexually transmitted disease and fresh vegetables and more leisure time will not cure them. Christian (06/26/01; 18:44:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 56935) Present gold standard At present the strong $ is maintained by a gold derivative practices. Simply print money, buy gold and dump it. Our central banks and the European central banks are doing it. So much for democracy. The cabel is winning. Homestake resources will now be sold forward to continue this scam. Unless a new par-value to back our currency the great credit creation expansion will destroy this country. The credit creation gold which consists of a bundle of commodities will only expand this credit creation operation. The most profitable form in our monetary system in legalized counterfeiting. It is the ability of the government and private groups acting in consert to obtain for themselves new printed supplies of money, buy gold with the new money supply and dump it. Money is a credit creation symbol of available purchasing power in this credit created-based economy. In this new economy a computer enabling technology for credit creation with no way to control it nor track it. Long term we are doomed for this credit creation will consume us. Tree in the Forest (06/26/01; 18:31:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 56934) Leigh See, there ya go. I knew it! Everyone IS in the cabal except me.....and maybe you. :-) Leigh (06/26/01; 18:22:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 56933) Tree in the Forest - Post 56753 I've been thinking about your post on plutonium in Fort Knox. Wouldn't it be something if someone suddenly discovered that American Eagles were radioactive? And FOR OUR OWN GOOD we needed to turn them in immediately? Tree in the Forest (06/26/01; 18:17:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 56932) Horatio What's this? Barrick has broken the cabal? I thought they were the cabal! I thought everyone was in the cabal except me.....and maybe you! Gol darn it now I'm all confused. ;-) John Doe (06/26/01; 18:13:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56931) Barrick/Homestake merger ABX was dead money anyway. Now it's just bigger dead money, a "fatter" corpse if you will. Actually, it's more like a fatter vampire, sort of an undead mining-based hedge fund. Maybe most of the hedge funds may be counted among "the undead"?What did Marx say about non-productive capital? Capital is like a vampire circling the globe, continuously sucking the life out of labor. Nice class rhetoric, but I believe his thinking was a bit too dualistic, i.e., limiting the debate to idealized concepts of capital vs. labor. It's not capital that's the problem, it's NON-PRODUCTIVE capital -- the kind that springs from robbing people through a political, anti-free market monetary system that is the problem.The more real enterprise is rendered profitless, the less real enterprise there will be. Bye HM, we'll miss you... auspec (06/26/01; 18:08:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56930) Horatio "Control has been wrested from the Cabal." I don't get it, please elaborate, must have slept through that class also.I read your previous post #56872 again and am surely missing something. You surely see Barrick as PART of the Cabal, no?I see this merger as mostly a non-event, both companies were basically doing their thing, ignoring/suppressing monetary roles for gold. Now they can do it together, still basically on the same side. If they weren't on the same side they would not have merged. This will likely prevent the total demise of Barrick, as they can now look up and see the surface of the water above them.You may be right that many will have to own this stock now, largely because of market cap, but they aren't out of the woods quite yet. Mergers have a way of failing, ask GoldFields, and they both are "significantly' hedged. Other than cb2's friend in Germany, who hold the large controlling interests in Homesteak {spelled right}? This 'merger' was put together much like that of JPM/C, it was basically ordered up over lunch.A COUP?? How about a desperate act?Kind Regards,auspec Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (06/26/01; 18:08:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 56929) Peter Asher Echo of Elvis? Was that J-man with E at the Burger King? Or that golden arches place! Heres hoping no one has their undies in a twist during the "summit", and a familiar traveler will soon be back on this yellow brick road. Horatio (06/26/01; 18:01:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 56928) Homestake Brokers are saying sell!!Barrick,'sell Homestake!,These are the same Morons that tell you to sell at the bottom and buy at the top.These are the same people that want you to buy tech stocks,its PANIC TIME !.Jack Thompson broke the CABALs nuts with this one. Barrick and Homestake have beaten the CABAL .You guys need to start thinking "outside the box"and get rid of your "hunker down" mentality in order to grasp the meaning of this event. Peter Asher (06/26/01; 17:56:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 56927) All Our errant Knight has just checked in and acquired the Castle Lord's E-mail address US_Army(RET) (06/26/01; 17:53:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 56926) Opps...Questioned Answer. Gandolf - usagold.com msg#: 56920 Gandolf,Sorry...see you answered question at end of msg.Thanks for post. SLD US_Army(RET) (06/26/01; 17:46:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 56925) 50 million baht? - Gandolf - usagold.com msg#: 56920 Mr. Gandolf,Just wondering...how much is 50 million baht in "real money"? Any idea? --- Is that alot? --- sounds like it.SLD Horatio (06/26/01; 17:45:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 56924) Homestake Jack Thompson has done what the whole industry needed .Barrick has beaten the South Africans and has now become the company all mutual funds and index funds MUST own. Control has been wrested from the Cabal.What a COUP!!! see post #56872 Horatio (06/26/01; 17:17:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 56923) Barrick,Homestake ,Anglo A Coup has taken place!!!Homestake has pulled it off.Anglo is fuming ,now it expects to pay a premium for acquistions.No more cheap gold stocks.Homestake has beaten them to the punch.See my previous post. US_Army(RET) (06/26/01; 17:13:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 56922) ...Hell to Pay... To follow-up on earlier post and comment, "…we will have hell to pay…"--------------------------------From Today's "Daily Reckoning"…(John Meyers, Calgary) (26 June 01)An explosion in the tenuous Arab-Israeli peace could force a choice between war or energy suffocation in the Western world. Consider the following: · Deprived of half its daily oil supply, the United States would be economically and militarily impotent in 90 days. · Taiwan - possibly ground zero in the next war - would be choked off in 60 days, and there wouldn't be a damn thing the United States could do about it. · Europe would lose three-fourths of its potency in two or three months.The frightening truth is that we have been living on borrowed time. And certainly you don't need me to point out that perpetual good fortune only happens in Heaven. With the direction we are headed with our current oil dependence, we are headed for Hell. --------------------------As Mr. B. Blade has warned of over and over again…the above scenario is much, much closer then ever before.Our dependence on the "puppet" govt's of the oil producing ME nations to keep providing us with cheap "go-juice" will come to naught quickly as all their heads are rolling in the streets within days following another major Israeli assault on the great concentration camps of Gaza and the West Bank.A world wide Islamic "holy war" is becoming increasingly imminent as the depredations in occupied Palestine and Jerusalem become more glaring and frequent. The status of Jerusalem, not the fate of the Palestinians, is what will ignite it…lets all keep in mind that it was Sharon's untimely and unjustified visit to the great Haram is what started the current intifada in the first place…Its continuing questionable status is what is keeping the unrest roaring.The "concept" of a world wide Islamic holy war is something few here in the West can conceive of or imagine. For the over 2 Billion+ Muslims in the world, located in all over the globe (only about 15% are Arab)…it means the dedication of ones resources, family and life to the "winning" of the war once declared by the recognized sources. It will bring about a day of "reckoning" like no other…if not Armageddon…. close to it.Our Gold and Silver piles may save us, our neighbors and friends. But save us from what?Again Respectfully,SLD JMB (06/26/01; 16:59:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 56921) SIERRA MADRE Don't be sad....rejoice....God is incharge. He certainly knows what He's doing....right? Gandalf the White (06/26/01; 16:30:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 56920) US adviser to be hired !! "Guru to advise on competitiveness."by Soonruth Bunyamanee of the Bangkok Post--- The Thai government will pay 50 million baht to hire Michael Porter, a Harvard University economics guru and best-selling author, to advise on how to improve the country's competitiveness, according to a government source.Two potential industries will be singled out as models for the plan, drafted to improve the country's competitiveness.Tawee Butsunthorn, chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, said the government's move was an attempt to arrest the continuous decline in competitiveness and the overall investment climate.Thailand slid three notches from last year to 38th out of the 49 countries surveyed in terms of competitiveness, according to a survey by the Switzerland-based International Institute for Management Development (IMD).The survey covers economic performance, government efficiency, business efficiency and infrastructure.The food industry was expected to be one of the two sectors to be used as strategic models for the country's industrial platform in the future.Because the food industry had strong potential, the government should push the country to achieve the largest share possible in "the world population's stomach".To improve competitiveness, he said, the government should set up a special body tasked with handling the issue. Currently, the related jobs of improving competitiveness are scattered among many agencies, causing a lack of unity.The Industry Ministry is currently conducting a study on the country's comparative advantages in five export-oriented industries: food, textiles and garments, rubber products, electronic and electrical products, and automobiles and parts.====<;-) and the Hobbits say that over US$1,000,000 could be saved by the Industry Ministry just converting all Mr. Porter's fee to physical GOLD, and letting the free market operate ! Hi-Hat (06/26/01; 16:23:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 56919) JOURNEYMAN I hope to see you back here soon brother. Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (06/26/01; 15:31:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 56918) Sierra Madre The emphasis in the major media has been great of late. Makes you wonder what all the groundwork is for.I find the issue of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) to be in line with the "control" being exerted on our society. Whether it is sinister by design, or a concerted covering up of something they are loathe to make public, I do not know. It should be criminal that it takes a written release from a parent for the school to give the child an aspirin, yet abortion "counseling" without parental consent or knowledge is legal.When the wall protecting the family is torn down, all is lost. AUtistic (06/26/01; 15:12:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 56917) RE: Sierra Madre WELL SAID!!!!!!! Sierra Madre (6/26/01; 14:50:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 56916) Perplexed...and the "Quiet War". Yes, it all makes complete sense.You'd want to read, "That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis, which portrays our (humanity's) terrible situation.In this cycle of manifestation - "existence" goes through cycles - humanity has been cut off from spiritual influences through a process of "materialization", and the effect we can perceive is the descent into number - especially evident in the monetary field.We are going from quality to quantity in all things.We all hope GOLD and economic reality will finally overthrow the arrogance of the new "Master Race" - the International Financiers/Social Engineers. We hope so, but the outcome is not entirely clear.We too, are "materialized", having forgotten the efficacy of invoking spiritual powers. That's a way of avoiding that unpopular word, "prayer".......As to shocks and manipulation of human beings, are you aware of the manipulation currently going on, under the name of the "Aids Plague". Here is Colin Powell telling us what a terrible threat it is. It is no more a threat than the Peruvian and Chilean mania about the mythical "Chupacabras" (the "Goatsucker") that is supposed to be killing off livestock down there. It's all a lot of baloney, but the way I see it, there is a very deep political importance attached to this myth of Aids as a contagious disease. It is "social engineering" going on. To be effective of course, no one must dare think so. Not a day goes by but we are given fake statistics, like "22 million victims". Hogwash!People are dying in Africa, but of malnutrition and endemic diseases they have always had, now exacerbated by poor economic conditions. Note that if that was admitted, the U.S. black population would insist on economic and medical aid, and social programs to eliminate polluted water, etc.The US evidently doesn't want to promote the birth or survival of more blacks in Africa, so it's letting the Africans die of common diseases, and calling it "AIDS"!And while Powell spouts off about that Aids hoax, how many millions of American babies have been murdered before birth, in the last 20 years? 30 million? But that's OK...I guess it's "Social Engineering" - keep the populace happy with promiscuous sex, and abortion to validate it......We will witness either the triumph of the "Master Race" of Social Engineers/International Financiers, or their downfall. Perhaps the last material bastion of humanity is GOLD. Will it be enough? Mother Teresa, I read somewhere, said she saw the greatest starvation in the US: Spiritual starvation, not bodily starvation.Our spiritual condition may be the determining factor, not gold, I'm inclined to believe. I hope I'm wrong.Sadly yours,Sierra ORO (6/26/01; 14:19:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 56915) Perplexed - the whole shebang http://users.netonecom.net/~gwood/TLP/ref/sw4qw/sw4qw.htm For those interested, the supposed technical manual is available in its entirety in the above URL.I should indicate that the theory is not particularly close to being representative of the way an economy works. It suffers from the same non-sensical Fisherisms of adding up monetary amounts as representatives of actual value, which is quite subjective, non-additive, non-commutative, and not understandable using a simplex breakdown and analysis. The electrical energy analogy is quite stretched as "want satisfaction" is measured on a preference scale, not a linear scale, though some sort of approximation might be plausible.Even so, like GDP, the analysis and data do provide useful tools for measurements rather than understanding for an extensive economy (how many cars). The intensive economy (how "good" is a car) is completely impervious to the analysis methods discussed in the supposed TM and so is its connection to the extensive economy aspcts of qualiity selection and features, which to the extent that they are capturable by direct quantitative models follow power or exponential equations when measured in extensive terms and remain intractably in the realm of equivalent orders of magnitude, thus not allowing effective use of mathematical approximation methods. As for the "manual" being genuine, perhaps it is, but its arguments, and stated intentions should be analyzed by the reader independently of the assumption of it being either genuine or not. Peter Asher (6/26/01; 14:03:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 56914) That's RESPONSE not respose I must repeat the mantra :There's no place like word-perfect, there's no place ------ and stop typing into the posting box! Peter Asher (6/26/01; 13:55:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56913) @ USA Gold Michael, thank you for the respose and for indicating you are willing to hear J-man's plea. I did indicate to him that he should contact you diectly. I even passed on Robin's message which was "Tell him to grovel." (:-)Hopefully he is not suffering the aftermath of drowning his sorrows and is merely tring to cope with his work day after "A long and sleepless night."I would expect you to soon hear from him. I will e-mail him once more. Thanks again. Tree in the Forest (6/26/01; 12:50:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 56912) Cabal guys Hey c'mon guys! You almost let gold get away from you there. Please pay more attention and keep things under control. That's better! Tree in the Forest (6/26/01; 12:48:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 56911) Re: Journeyman I think Michael will give Journeyman another chance. Right Michael? They're both good guys. schippi (6/26/01; 12:31:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 56910) Select Gold Chart http://www.SelectSectors.com/agpm120.gif FSAGX moving Up and out of apex of indecision triangle. Possible breakout. uponroof (6/26/01; 12:25:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 56909) USAGOLD Journeyman I don't think posters understand the little nicks you suffer through the course of running a site like this. After awhile the 'little nicks' folks inflict, either intentionally or unintentionally, cause quite a sore spot. What looks like an over reaction on your part is borne of many previous wounds. Unfortunately, sometimes the poster is often bearing the brunt of those previous nicks others have left.I don't know the specifics here but I would be greatly encouraged if you saw a way to reinstate priviledges... perhaps on a conditional basis. The conduct on this site is impeccable, the standards very high. How about reaching that level with grace also? sstins (06/26/01; 12:22:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 56908) RE: Journeyman Journeyman has always contributed much in my opinion and the recent suspension of posting privleges was carried out with much haste and little forethougt.Everyone needs to be reminded from time to time of the rules. Some may need to be warned. You don't get your drivers license taken just for running a stop sign one time.Respect must be given to be received. Pragmatic (06/26/01; 11:58:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56907) USAGold I was bumped from GE for posting a link to my homepage... a number of times. My frustration had been that words cannot convey what a picture can. I have software that I have developed over the years that I wanted to share but could not without showing a picture. I have absolutely no commercial interest in promoting myself or software but the impression was there. You are a "straight up" kind of guy and I respect your action. But Journeyman has been some kinda legend for me. Your reinstating his posting privileges would have my greatest appreciation. I learned a lesson and am sure Journeyman has also. justamereBear (06/26/01; 11:54:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 56905) @All Just popped in, and was saddened, and astounded, by the apparent news that journeyman had his posting priviligees pulled. I visited his site, and I am not sure what he was trying to do, but I certainly did not see it as a commercial site. In fact, I was surprised at the outward support of USAG that I found there.However, if MK does not want advertising, it is his ball, and he is entitled to take it and go home. Whether I think MK was having a bad hair day and made a mistake or not, is immaterial.Journeyman- May you be 1/2 an hour in heaven before the devil knows you are gone.j'Bear Horatio (06/26/01; 11:48:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 56904) The Company you love to Hate Yep its Barrick!Every computer Techie I know hates AOL.and you know what ?they sold at 100 x earnings because they knew how to exploit all those teenagers that wanted to chat in secret from thier parents.Join clubs that had forbiddennames on them like"gay only",even though the content was mostly nonsence.Yep Barrick is the company you love to hate and will probably sell at 100 x earnings too.Its a perverse world. I shall hold my nose and keep my Homestake shares(Barrick),after all aren't they now as good as Homestake but with more cash and the big guy in town. Headquarters away from U.S.greedy tax collectors 'small "political risk"because of thier association with bullion bankers ,funds and other predators.They also have a association with the BUSH family. And who do you think the Bullion banks will do business with when they reverse course and become buyers? They can run that stock to levels not seen by the dot coms.They can make more money in stock trading than they ever could mining bullion.Physical gold can't be leveraged ,but stock!,theres no limit.They (bullion banks)can more than cover thier physical losses with leveraged stock profits.Barrick now have reserves,liquidity,low cash costs,big cash reserves to buy more reserves with.They have a capitalization that any large buyer needs to have when buying large amounts of stock.If you are a mutual fund you must be a buyer of Barrick ,its one of the few big enough to give you liquidity.If you are an index buyer ,you must own Barrick! Large buyers will say to thier managers"why aren't we there" everyone else is? They have created a situation where if you are going to own gold,you must own Barrick. Personally I will keep my shares ,while I hold my nose.It smells ,but Im not stupid. USAGOLD (06/26/01; 11:47:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 56903) Peter. . . . Would it be possible for Journeyman to contact me on this matter, either by phone or e-mail? I will be in most of the day. Peter Asher (06/26/01; 11:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56902) USA Gold Ditto on US Army and also--- When I first opened the page it hit me as it did you Michael, that it was a heavy ad site. probably because the adds pop up instantly and flash at you a bit on a blank page before the content follows along.Sir journeyman has informed me that he does not check his site very often and last he looked, the "pop-up" wasn't there. He is very chagrined, embarrassed and I believe penitent even though in a sense he was blindsided by the servers crass commercialism.There was an article the other day about this most recent desperado attempt of advertisers to invade sites with surprise inserts that spring from all corners of cyberspace. I imagine every one of us has had to close that d@#% camera add fifty times by now. The article stated that many folks are refusing to deal with the advertisers specifically because of this. Hopefully, consumer backlash will dampen this current annoyance.Meanwhile Michael; could you regard J-Man as another victim rather then a perpetrator.TIA -- Peter Perplexed (06/26/01; 11:43:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56901) SILENT WEAPONS FOR QUITE WARS j Bear In my opinion nothing contained within your post was off topic, Gold and economics, if not now openly sleeping together, are at the very least still roomates. If this is not so, then this last two weeks of debates has been a massive violation of site protocols. In this spirit, I now post part of the introduction to a booklet which has been in my possession since about 1981:This publication circia 1979 marks the 25th anniversary of the Third World War, called the Quite War, being conducted using subjective biological warfare, fought with silent weapons. This booklet contains and introductory description of this war, its strategies and its weaponry.Silent weapon technology has evolved from Operation Research(O.R.) a strategic and tactical methodology developed under the military management of England during WWII. The original purpose of O.R was to study the stretgic and tactical problems of air and land defense with the objective of effective use of limited military resources against foreign enemies(i.e. logistics.It was soon recognized by those in positions of power that the same methods might be useful for totally controlling a society, but better tools were necessary.Social engineering (the analysis and automation of a society) requires the correlation of great amounts of constantly changing economic information (data)'so a high speed cumputerized data processing system was necessary which could race ahead of the society and prodict when a society would arrive for capitulation.Relay computers wre too slow, but electronic computer, invented in 1946 by J.Presper Eckert and John W Mauchly filled the bill.The next breakthrough was the development of the simplex method of linear programing in 1947 by the mathematician George B Dantzig.Then, in 1948, the transistor, invented by J. Bardean, W.H. Brattain and W, Shockley promised great expansion of the computer field by reducing space and power requirements.With these three inventions under their direction, those inpositions of power strongly puspected that it was possible for them to control the whole world with push of a button.Immediately, the Rockefeller Foundation got in on the ground floor by making a four year grant to Harvard College, funding the Harvard economic research project for the study of the structure of the American economy. One year later, in 1949, the United States Air Force joined in.In 1952 the original grant period terminated, an a high level meeting of the elite was held to determine the next phase of social operations research. The Harvard project had been very fruitful as sis borne out by the publication of some of its results in 1953 suggesting the feasibility of economic (social) engineering. (Studies in the Structure of the American Economy) copyrighted by Wassily Leontief, International Sciences Press Inc. White Plains, N.Y.Engineered in the last half decade of the 1940's, the new Quite War machine stood, so to speak, in sparkling gold plated hardware on the showroom floor by 1954.With the creation of the maser in 1954, the promise of the unlicking unlimited sources of fusion energy from the heavy hydrogen in sea water and the consequent availability of unlimited social power became a possibilty only decades away. The combination was irresistible.The Quite War was quietly declared by the intenational elite at a meeting held in 1954.Although the silent weapons system was nearly exposed 13 years later, the evolution of the new weapon system has never suffered any major setbacks.This volume marks the 25th anniversary of the beginning of the Quiet War. Already this domestic war has had many victories on many fronts throughout the world. :This was the introduction. The next chapter deals with the control of energy, as well as means and methods of shocking the frame work of a given society, and analyzing the reprocusions. ( selected shortages of staple commodities) The information is making far more sense now than at anytime during the last twenty years since it has been in my possession.I will post some more of it if anyone is interested and with the permission of M.K.Perplexed uponroof (06/26/01; 11:37:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 56900) Pragmatic/Tree in the Forest SPOT LIFTING OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good to hear from you!Yes, I recall your e-mail advising to get long. Unfortunately I did not act on your advice then, and now it looks to be too late. Glad you had a nice time sailing. It seems the sea air did your amourous abilities well (not that you needed it). CAUTION: todays women are killers. Just look at that 'Tomb Raider' heroine. She is one nasty piece that all the ladies emulate. This is where we're headed. Besides, you already have a wife half your age. Great to hear from you professor!Tree in the Forest-I think you're right, but I also think the big picture is changing and those with deep pockets are not in the control they once had. Vast multi national economic-political ramifications trumps the cabals deep pockets. It even trumps the US FED. The dollar, and it's all reaching global affect, is calling the shots...literally. Not Greenspan, not Bush, certainly not the cabal or any human. The out of control fiat dollar, manipulated by no one, understood by no one. KING of all...for now. US_Army(RET) (06/26/01; 11:09:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 56899) USAGOLD - RE: "Journeyman" USAGOLD,I would like to add my support to the request of allowing "Journeyman" back on this forum…His regular commentary is without question one of the "Shining Lights" of USAGOLD.You have the full right, and my full support for protecting us all here from unwanted "solicitation" and posters who do not wish to follow the forum framework and rules as posted.I did take a look at the "offending" link…and it does not appear to me that "Journeyman" was overtly trying to solicit anything…I think he was merely trying to "share" additional information with a poster that would have been far too extensive for most of us to absorb in a GF posting.The offending advertising is "generic" "bannerism" which probably is just a cost of his "hosting" his pages. Most of us learned to "mentally" turn off this sort of "selling" long ago. It is in fact seen in many, many links to very common sites referred to in other messages that have been posted in the past.I am certain "Journeyman" would not "repeat" his "error" if given another chance (which I hope he would take if offered.)In the short time I have actively followed this excellent forum…I have found him among the most thoughtful, knowledgeable and personable posters. One whose messages I always look forward to reading.Your point is well taken and I think each of us will take extreme caution in posting links to possibly "rule offending links."But please, for the sake of the forum and the rest of us, reconsider this user's permanent "removal."Thank you.Respectfully,SLD ge (06/26/01; 11:09:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 56898) Martin Pring on CRB Breakout http://www.tfc.com/syndication/marketmavensreport/pring.html?G=MarketMavensReport&T=Technical%20Analysis&A=pring . Tree in the Forest (06/26/01; 11:05:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 56897) R Powell I agree with your response to Playrightman. The moves we are going to see will be fast and furious. Those not positioned will be caught like a deer in the headlights. This happened once already in the dollar a few years ago when it made a sudden large move literally over night. The setups we are seeing in the markets, and the extreme suppression of honest trading both in PMs and SM will mean violent corrections will occur. Attempts will be made to contain this. How effective they will be remains to be seen. Tree in the Forest (06/26/01; 10:58:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 56896) uponroof In view of the fact that the WGC is owned and operated by the cabal, we can expect them to move at their own speed and only when they are ready. Strong hands are very patient (they can afford to be) and they have been waiting twenty years or maybe more. This thing will play out their way, of that you can be sure. Well, at least they think so! uponroof (06/26/01; 10:57:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 56895) SPOT Seems to pulling on his chain a little.Is it a little 'test' buying before the FED meeting? Checking resistance? Or is it the FED meeting factor now?hummmmmm....That little breakout started right on the 12 noon est mark ........again. Perhaps these 'market makers' are growing more and more leary of being late to the seemingly unstoppable volatility partys of late. Never know when one of these 'partys' will turn into a 'burn the house down' 6 month binge. sector-I hope you are right. At first I was surprised to see the not so subtle change in their format. WOW! To openly market gold amongst investors is what we've been calling for, for a long time. However, I am not close enough to the action to understand their true intentions. Cautious optomistism for now. Pragmatic (06/26/01; 10:53:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 56894) @uponroof I am loaded up since sending you, PH and others that generic email last week as to my thoughts on the imminent nature of an up move. Technicals were, are screaming buy and subsequent action is acting as confirmation. At least I now have correct "padding" so as to make this trade fairly risk free.We all know the reasons why gold should be +1,000 but as to the timing... Little my posts could add as to the why's and philosopy, the incrediably great posters on this forum do that, but I am a pretty good market timer.The gulf and Corpus Bay are great sailing. Dolphins, pelicans, flamingoes, birds galore. Anchored off Emerald Cover one night and spent night at Aransas the next. Real honkey tonk place.. bunch women.. makes you want to be young and single;) sector (06/26/01; 10:23:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 56893) @uponroof "Buy Security...Buy Gold"...a WGC Big Move Last evening I spoke about big moves. The WGC's change in philosophy is a big move...along with Barrick/Homestake and many others.The WGC has been a slave of the bullion banks for ten years or more. For them to acknowledge gold as a competitor to the Federal Reserve's units in addition to being jewelry represents a change...one that must have had the approval of their benefactors...forward sellers Barrick and Anglogold. These giants now seem to be acting differently than before...a very good sign that a sea change may be near. Gandalf the White (06/26/01; 10:07:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 56892) < ; - )>> Don't look now -- BUT SPOT just broke through $275 !!!!Jump SPOT, JUMP <;-) uponroof (06/26/01; 10:01:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 56891) Dutch sell one lousy tonne, and it makes 'news' http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010626/l26413300.html Further down in the report it also outlines what the gold market analyst 'bias' is on the soon to hit FED rate cut.From the article:"The bias was for a move to the upside, breaking the recent $271-$275.50 range, with the possibility of a return to the volatility seen earlier in the month..."snip"``Many in the market realise that there is a lot more potential for loss on the upside than on the downside and many position themselves that way...you don't want to be short in the market. Everybody is nervous,'' he added..."***********************************************************Is this an opportunity to actually make some fiat in the futures market? (to buy physical with of course)Sounds like gold should be moving up very shortly. Where's MoutainGold or Pragmatic? Any thoughts on what to play? Peter Asher (06/26/01; 09:54:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 56890) justamereBear (06/26/01; 00:04:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 56877) Glad you finally went public with that. Like you, I'm up to my knees in dog-stuff and we don't even have a dog. (:-)Briefly; If the powerful corner the wealth, they will need lots of products to spend it on. Most of the toys they want, to be able to die a winner, must be made by people with skills and intelligence. Even robotics has it's limits when the customers want a one of a kind product. If you can't fight them, create for them!Keeping in mind, of course, the kings of old who cut of the artists head so they would be the only possessor of his work. dragonfly (06/26/01; 09:52:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56889) Journeyman I will really miss your practical wisdom and sense of balance and hope. You sir have a PhD in Life and it has been a privilege to share thoughts with you here. Take care,dragonfly goldfan (06/26/01; 09:36:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 56888) USAGold I sure wish USAGold would consider resurrecting Journeyman, after all the concept is quite familiar and even integral to one of the world's great religions, and I believe has been known to occur on this site in the past..... We are all of us to some extent stumbling around in the dark, bumping into stuff we didn't know or had forgotten was there....I applaud USAGold's efforts to keep this site free of unbalanced personalities, and I defer totally to your right to maintain it as you see fit. You pay for the dance hall, you call the tunes, and you have good right to be proud of the music so far!! But I confess I am wounded too by this banishment and wish it could be reversed....Yours faithfullyGoldfan Buena Fe (06/26/01; 09:30:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 56887) Guts What we need is for GoldFields to up the antee over Homestake by 10% or more..........it would probably still be a steal! Old Yeller (6/26/01; 09:03:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 56886) The ghost of John Law must be chuckling Sacre bleu;"many French citizens have been selling Napoleon gold coins for a sustained period,for many years."After the reading I've done on the Mississippi bubble,one gathers the opinion there is not a lot of difference betwwen the two bubbles.The French central bank,according to Reg Howe,respects the history of stability of gold,therefore does not lease or sell derivatives on their substantial reserves.This is a perfecr illusration of the success of the campaign to deflect attention from gold's monetary role.Our patience and persistence will be rewarded,numbers can only be massaged for so long,but seeing the French turning their backs on their own nation's disastrous monetary experiment is disheartening.On a positive note,the WGC appears to be clueing in on the real problem.More encouraging would be a sustained attack on the paper gold inflation,tables of gold hedgers positions,gold short positions and derivative explosions would really drive the point home that all is not what it seems in the world of gold.Journeyman,we'll miss you,your posts were always informative.Best of luck in your future.USAGOLD,how about a suspension instead?Please reconsider,everybody makes mistakes,look at the French citizens selling out of their ancestors wisdom. rc (6/26/01; 08:53:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 56885) @US_Army(RET) - Your post 56874 Agree! Buena Fe (6/26/01; 08:20:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 56884) change in perception...........AG's nemesis Dow/Bonds/$/Gold......... pressure points all over the place, end of quarter madness (squaring), Fed Folly etc., its gonna be some week........zig zag zoom! Intervention galour......only to be overcome by freemarket momentum.......the time has come! Man the Au life boats! uponroof (6/26/01; 08:10:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 56883) WGC.....ad campaign update http://www.miningweekly.co.za/mw/breaking/?show=1419 Good Morning all,Well the WGC's ad campaign is off and running. They have a budget of $52 million to get the word out. The press release of last month indicated a focus on the consumer with a 'more than jewellery' program. Now I see they are even taking that a step further in promoting gold as 'security' ("Buy Security Buy Gold") to the trade sector. While this is nice, and I am encouraged, I am also tired of the baby steps this outfit is taking. Gold is a political football, getting the crap kicked out of it. The WGC approaching the trade sector as a second priority just doesn't get it done. It needs to declare all out war. An agressive approach to the trade sector, by taking on paper investments head to head, would get attention at this particular time in global economics. Jewellery consumers are aware of trade sector trends. A good trade sector campaign would reach more jewellery consumers than any consumer focused campaign. It seems to me the WGC has it backwards. They should have emphasis first on the trade sector, jewellery consumers will follow and feed off of that.It also wouldn't hurt to give a few million to GATA. I have no doubt that they would get more bang out of 2 million than the WGC will get out of their 52 million.*********************************************************From the link above (MY CAPS): "International gold promoter the World Gold Council (WGC) has launched an initiative called 'BUY SECURITY, BUY GOLD', which is focused on the benefits of an individual BUYING AND INVESTING IN GOLD. The campaign arises at a time when there has been widespread physical disinvestments out of gold, particularly by Europeans.It also follows the appointment earlier this year by the WGC of a professional to REINVIGORATE PRIVATE INVESTOR INTEREST.Another individual has been appointed to pursue a programme of ENCOURAGING INSTITUTIONAL INVESTMENT...."another link which shows the 'Buy Security, Buy Gold' ad: http://www.gold.org/Pages/Coin1f.htm***********************************************************btw-The BARRICK - HOMESTAKE 'merger' involves more than gold. As my friend Don_L points out...."Well there is something much bigger here, with this merger the Gold-Silver deposit discovery on the Chile-Argentina border will be a completely BARRICK resource.Now this resource has very big implications for the SILVER market in that this is the largest single find of silver in the world, the deposit is huge, very very huge, like upwards of a BILLION OUNCES or so.This is why perhaps the Argentinan government is now "playing games" with their currency, they have leverage just like the U.S. had leverage with the Carlin Trendgold strike back in the mid 80's in Nevada.In the eyes of government officals, gold in the ground is just as bankable, as gold in the vaults are, thanks to the derivatives markets.So now it time to reflect, and think this out. If we have one merge like this, then I am sure we must have several others in the wings somewhere.Who is next?"***********************************************************sector-great post. I love to connect dots.ALL....Have a great day! LeSin (6/26/01; 07:11:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 56882) "And The Beat Goes On" - IMF - Gold - Pegging Currencies & Stuff http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/010626/16/168n9.html Tuesday June 26, 5:51 PM Dispense With IMF Ban on Gold as Exchange Rate Peg: WGCNEW DELHI, June 26 Asia Pulse - The current prohibition by the International Monetary Fund [IMF] on using gold as an exchange rate peg is anachronistic and potentially damaging to some developing countries, and should be dispensed with, according to a new World Gold Council [WGC] study. The WGC, which published an updated version of its study "The IMF and Gold", prepared by a former Bank of England and IMF official Dick Ware, suggested that for a number of countries it was sensible to incorporate gold in a currency or commodity basket, anchoring the exchange rate. "We are not talking about a return to an all-embracing gold standard. But for some countries the use, or partial use of gold in an exchange rate peg might be beneficial," Ware said in the study. "For some developing countries, especially where gold forms a significant part of their exports, establishing some sort of link to its price may make more sense than tracking the dollar and creating an exposure to the effects of US economic policy," he added. (PTI) Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (6/26/01; 06:37:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 56881) Journeyman I assume it was you? If so, I will miss your posts. Thanks for your past efforts and good luck to you. Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (6/26/01; 06:06:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 56880) US_Army (RET) @ 56874 Well said! There is only one cop on this beat! Anyone else is impersonating an officer of the "law". I did not find the topic offensive. The forum routinely discusses international news items, especially if there is a perceived effect on the demand for gold. justamereBear (06/26/01; 00:15:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56879) US-ArmyRet 56874 While I disagree with some of your thinking, I sure do like this batch.j'Bear working-kirk (06/26/01; 00:07:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 56878) Questions about Barrick/Homestead merger I am not into gold stocks and so have some question about this merger1.) From my understanding Homestead was unhedged and waiting for gold to break free. So why would the management agree to this merger2.) Even if the management wants the merger, couldn't the stockholders still vote "No" on it no matter how much Barrack offered. Reading the board and people into buying stocks, people like homestead because it was unhedged. It would seem to me they would vote no to merging with Barrack just on prinpical3.) What effect does this have on Barrack hedging> If I remember correctly they were hedged five years into the future and while the reserves of homestead could help, If the price jumped to the lowest estimated market value ($600)my understanding would destroy them both4.) If the shareholders of homestead refuse, what happens to Barracks since they are obviously shopping around for someunhedged gold mine. justamereBear (06/26/01; 00:04:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 56877) Journeyman 56816 ECONOWAR Journeyman 56816 EconowarWell, now I have gone and really stuck my foot in it.Firstly, the subject is long, complex, and may, for the purposes that the forum exists, be off topic. Secondly, Oro recently invited my comment on something, and I had to refuse for time constraints. (on rereading my response, a bit ungraciously I thought, and I do apologise) (and I did so much want to engage him, and the subject) But, I still have those time restraints.Now to your PS, what is the project? In my view of the world as she is evolving, as Working Kirk posits, things ain't going to be pretty. If it were just one project, combined with my other madnesses, it would be bad enough, but it is two, and my sleep time is about ½ the minimum requirement. One is a new wrinkle on something we have corresponded about privately, (off forum topic) and the second is about security, if the world evolves as I think it might. (and my crystal ball is no clearer than anyone elses'.) It is really about unconventional weapons, and I am currently up to my knees in dog poo, or dogs. Also off topic. In my view, once one accepts that the world is on the cusp of great change, (and I cannot envision anyone at this forum not being of the opinion that change was not coming, else why gold?) it behooves one to do a bit of planning, and speculating as to what form that world will take. One has to consider the various forces at play, from Black Blades hydrocarbon man, the financial situation, particularly its main components ie the USD, AIDS and the superBugs, declining fish populations ie food availability, etc etc etc.One thing that has sort of sneaked up on most of mankind, because mostly it is beneficial, (and so was fire, but it does have its dangers) is the advent of the computer chip, and the information revolution. While I disagree with some parts, (and I am not a fan of their next book) I think that Davison and Rees-Mogg have a very valid point in their "Great Reckoning", particularly I would point interested parties toward the Information revolution, Chapter 2, and the section on the breakup of the nation state. To me, they are very close to the money. Big is no longer beautiful.I have been very lucky in my lifetime, in that I was one of the first computer programmers in Alberta Canada in my youth. So I have a more basic than most knowledge of what a computer is capable of. (although my knowledge is now BADLY outdated. I don't even speak Microsoft. But a binary coded decimal is still a BCD.) Recently I have also become involved in another fledgling field, competitive intelligence. Most people do not know the phrase, and when explained, they say "Oh, industrial espionage". It is not. There is nothing illegal done. What it is more akin to is a glorified librarian. Information retrieval specialists. Actually, there is little need for illegality. So much can be done legally with a bit of imagination. Count the boxes crossing your competitors loading dock, using satellite imagery. In one case, before attempting a takeover, the tonnage shipped from a particular plant became critical information. What turned out to be an astoundingly accurate estimate of the tonnage was obtained simply by measuring the amount of rust on a railway spur track. I point interested parties to "Confidential" by John Nolan, p180 onwards, in which a competitor was destroyed by running a remote psychological assessment on a new president, and taking advantage of his weaknesses. Knowledge IS power.The history of the field is essentially; There was a shooting war, then there was a cold war, and when it wound down, there were a whole lot of spies out of work. They took their information gathering skills to the bigger companies, who were already receptive, in that they already had such departments in the form of market research. Today it is rare indeed that a Fortune 500 company does not have a formal competitive intelligence department, albeit not using that name. Combine the forces of change from Davidson, with the data handling methods, such as data mining, and the small 2 person group, hiring a CI specialist firm for specific knowledge, can be as powerful as anyone. The trend is away from the big nation state, toward a much smaller, flexible group. I point to your "roofs" experience in Russia. At the moment there is a stalemate, in that neither the 'roofs', nor the state has the upper hand, so they tolerate each other. This to will change, or evolve. And I'm betting on the 'roofs'. We will get some form of 'roofs' in North America too, once the current system is destabilized, perhaps by a financial collapse.While the players may not yet have come to the realization that they are the new wave, small groups, armed with knowledge are becoming more and more powerful. Have you noticed how things are in the bigger companies, and what they demand, and get, from employees and customers? You get frisked every time you go in and out of work. There is a demand that, in order to work for this company, or fly on that airline, you must comply with their increasingly draconian rules. It is an age of the disposable person, and for those who remain unknowlegable, this will remain. They are disposable. There is increasingly a requirement to sign an employment contract, which is essentially an oath of fealty. (or soon will be.) You must lay your soul bare, and agree to their use of whatever measures they deem expedient, to do business with a bank.Another chip at the structure as we know it is the increasing profitability, or payoff, from slightly illegal, or at least immoral activities, vs the law abiding. All these demons have been hatched. They are small now, but if we get a massive disruption in the system as it exists today, they will be exceedingly opportunistic. Sort of like if you break your leg, and the bone pierces the skin. Bones can fairly easily be reset, but now a very real danger lies in gangrene.And that is what this forum is all about, massive coming change. How will it play out?The new reality is that ruthless individuals, setting their own rules, and armed with that most powerful of weapons, knowledge, will coalesce groups of people, who because of necessity, or because they are like minded, or are opportunistic, around them How does Bin Laden do it? He is not particularly rich or powerful. Yet, he is taking on the USA. Sure they may get him, but what of the myriad of others, all with slightly different agendas. Sooner or later, the US will die of a thousand paper cuts. You can also see this trend in the multinationals, many of whom are more powerful than small nations. I suspect that this post may set off something of a firestorm. To those who want more information, I must regrettably say, do your own homework, and form your own conclusions. I have pointed you in a general direction. To those who would debate, I would very dearly love to, but time does not permit. As much as possible, I will read and consider, particularly because I am aware that I am mortal, and do not have all the answers. In fact, I would dearly love to see reasoned rebuttal, as opposed to the type of statement that the US will always continue to exist. Always is a very long time. Only if you define always as during 'my' lifetime would I consider it possibly valid. Say WHY the US will ALWAYS remain.Yours in hastej'BearPS. As to sleepless nights, does knowing or not knowing something provide more sleepless nights? ;>D ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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