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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 12/24/2006 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) BillinOregon (12/24/06; 23:55:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 150479) Merry Christmas Merry Christmas to you all and may God Bless you in the new year.BillinOregon melda laure (12/24/06; 23:30:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 150478) come thou long expected bear market http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/cederholm/2006/1224.html @ sir Golden LionheartSNIPSo many times in my years spent working on litigation and investigations for the FDIC and the RTC on failed banks and savings and loans, I saw "alleged" guilty parties walk from all their misdeeds, responsibilities, and liabilities. When confronted with evidence against them and given a choice between being crooked or stupid, we so frequently heard: "Boy, was I dumb!" Costs for the problems, misdeeds, and inactions I've been chronicling will run in the mega-billions - even trillions of dollars. There is now potential to destroy this nation as we know it for generations to come.ENDIf we have the downturn (at last) mining equities will tank with the rest of them (possibly a buying opportunity- hard to say). I could easily imagine physical experiencing a 10 to 20% drop temporarily.Maybe.We have already digested most of the blow off from $700 I think. Eventually, those factories will have to be "recapitalized".Eventually the world will end too I've been told. melda laure (12/24/06; 23:07:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 150477) i aran aranion, i heru herion Mythology, that's all that economics is anymore. My my. I've been much too busy of late (sometimes I get shanghaied into special detail duties up north), but I see that I haven't missed much. I've no idea what to make of the failed Paulsen Mission to China, I shall have to think on it a bit more. I am also suprised that the markets do not seem to be interested in discounting our lack of decisive progress in the ME.No bag of silver for the boy king, only gold will do. May your stockings be as heavy! Golden Lionheart (12/24/06; 22:49:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 150476) Ho Ho Ho from Aussielanders "http://www.kenduncan.com/echristmas"Not so many bells here, more beer and BBQ's....but is nearly 40C. Druid (12/24/06; 22:44:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 150475) contrarian (12/24/06; 21:36:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 150472) Druid: Real capitalism ended prior to 1913. The rest is well crafted mythology. LimitUp (12/24/06; 22:07:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 150474) Happy Holidays to you all & a Golden New Year. mikal (12/24/06; 21:36:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 150473) Suit up! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16347865 Company Says Copper Clothes, Fabrics Heal - U.S. Business - MSNBC.com - December 24, 2006Skeptics abound, and even the author manages to reveal numerous biases towards cutting edge science.But as mainstream media must be behind the curve about the world's most tantalizing stories, this article still grudgingly gives away some valuable input in the process of grappling with "the other precious metal", copper.Suit up, "variety is the spice of life" ;) contrarian (12/24/06; 21:36:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 150472) The Last Stage of Capitalism http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=97064 Here's where we're at--the last stage of capitalism."Thank you for the informative post. We have transferred our assets, our industries,our capital (money, labor, and industry) and our employment overseas for quite a period of time now. It's called "monopoly capitalism." It tends to enrich a very few individuals and entitities and impoverish the public at large. It tends to concentrate political and economic power in a small number of individuals and entitities. It has been called the last stage of capitalism by some economic and political theorists."Conclusion: More and more you hear calls for a currency called the "Amero" - which would be an amalgam of Mexican, Canadian and American dollars and pesos. American opposition might be overcome if the dollar weakens enough, and that may be the plan. You never know, when it comes to the money elite, what exactly they have in mind. But whether the dollar collapses in a day, a year or a decade, gold and silver hold their value. Trust money or trust politicians. Your choice." Goldilox (12/24/06; 20:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 150471) Court halves Exxon spill damages http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6204819.stm snip:wildlifeA US court has almost halved the damages oil giant Exxon Mobil must pay for a 1989 oil spill off Alaska.The San Francisco Federal appeals court reduced the payment from $4.5bn (£2.3bn) to $2.5bn (£1.3bn), saying the previous decision had been excessive.It is the third time damages in the case have been reduced.The case - started in 1994 by more than 32,000 fishermen, native Alaskans and property owners - is one of the longest non-criminal ones in US history.In the original court ruling, Exxon was ordered to pay out $5bn.Later decisions ordered the lower Alaskan court to set a lower limit for the penalty, but refused to say how much the penalty should be cut by.However, in the latest 2-1 judgement, Chief Judge Mary Schroeder and Judge Andrew Kleinfeld declared it was "time for this protracted litigation to end."-GoldiloxWhile Chavez and his neighbors press Exxon to share more of its billions of profit with the territorial owners of the oil, US courts continue to hack away at Valzez spill penalties. Goldilox (12/24/06; 20:40:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 150470) Venezuela gives Exxon ultimatum http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4544390.stm snip:Venezuela has given the world's biggest oil company, ExxonMobil, until the end of this year to enter a joint venture with the state.Failure to do so will almost certainly result in Exxon losing its oil field concessions in the country.Venezuela's socialist government has now signed new agreements with almost all foreign petroleum companies.After months of pressure from left- wing leader Hugo Chavez most foreign oil firms working there have caved in.They have agreed to hand over a controlling stake of their oil interests to the Venezuelan state.This means that Venezuela now calls the shots in what the foreign guests can and cannot do.In addition, the companies which have signed the new contracts - such as Chevron, BP, Shell and Total - will in future be presented with much higher tax bills by the government.Foreign uneaseBut Venezuela says it is only fair that the foreigners are made to pay up as they have got away lightly in the past.Much of the oil revenue in Venezuela goes into social projects in shanty towns and poor rural areas.But the US oil giant, ExxonMobil, is digging in its heels and is so far refusing to agree to the terms of the new deal.Exxon risks losing Venezuelan operations if it fails to comply.There is growing unease among foreign energy companies based Latin America that they may be forced to become junior partners by a string of left wing governments.In the case of Bolivia and the apparent shift to the left there following elections on Sunday, it is possible that the new government will decide to follow Venezuela's example and renegotiate oil and gas contracts with foreign investors.- GoldiloxResource rich South American governments continue to pressure Exxon, who again announced record profits, for a bigger piece of the pie. Goldilox (12/24/06; 20:39:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 150469) Exxon posts fresh bumper profits http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5220954.stm snip:Oil giant Exxon Mobil has posted the second-largest quarterly profit ever recorded by a publicly-traded US firm.Helped by high oil prices, the company earned $10.4bn (£5.6bn) in the second quarter of 2006 - a 36% increase on the same period of 2005.Exxon, which is the world's biggest oil company, said its quarterly revenues rose by 12% to $99bn.Global oil prices are at record highs because of ongoing concern about the security situation in the Middle East.Windfall taxesWith Exxon and the other oil giants continuing to set fresh record profits, some analysts say there might be a backlash against the sector.Critics argue that it is unfair for the oil firms to pass on the high price of crude oil to motorists at the same time as pocketing record earnings, leading to calls for the introduction of windfall taxes.Exxon's results beat Wall Street expectations, but came in just behind its record profit of $10.7bn set in the fourth quarter of 2005.Its trading statement comes a month after investors defied the Exxon board and approved a resolution saying directors should be chosen by a majority vote.It represented a victory for Exxon investors angered by the near-$400m retirement package of ex-chairman and chief executive Lee Raymond. Goldilox (12/24/06; 20:22:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 150468) Ethiopia: NBE Buys Over 600 Kgs of Gold http://allafrica.com/stories/200612240089.html snip:The National Bank of Ethiopia (NBE) in the past five months (July-November) bought 612 kg of gold from traders, it was learnt. The gold which NBE purchased is mined by artisanal miners in southwest Ethiopia.In a bid to legalize the illicit gold trade in different parts of the country, two years ago the government enacted a proclamation which enables individuals to buy gold from artisanal miners and to either export it or sell it to the NBE. The directive was jointly prepared by the Ministry of Trade and Industry, Ministry of Mines and Energy and Ministry of Revenue.Since the introduction of the new law that liberalized the gold trade, the amount of gold sold to NBE has been increasing. In 2004-2005 it bought 339 kg of gold from traders. In 2005-2006 the bank bought 749 kg. This figure does not include the 612 kg of gold that NBE bought in the past five months.When the traders sell gold to NBE, the bank deducts one percent of the selling price as service charge. However, upon the request made by the Ministry of Mines and Energy, NBE has reduced the service charge to 0.25 percent. The new tariff went effective last week.The mining operation department with the ministry is encouraging artisanal miners to increase production. It is assisting them in forming associations. So far MIDROC Gold is the only company which has been mining primary gold. The company produces four tonnes of gold per annum. West Wellega Explorations, a company licensed by the ministry to produce placer gold in west Wellega, will start production in February 2007. West Wellega, owned by Ethiopian and Russian business people, has been prospecting for primary gold in the region. In the 2005-2006 fiscal year Ethiopia exported 4.97 tons of gold valued at 64.7 million US dollars.-GoldiloxA CB that understands the prudence of keeping some of its gold product at home. TownCrier (12/24/06; 19:59:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 150467) A beginner's guide to investing in gold http://www.moneyweek.com/file/23315/a-beginners-guide-to-investing-in-gold.html 22 December 2006; (MoneyWeek) -- For centuries gold has been coveted for its unique blend of near indestructibility, beauty, rarity and because of its status as a universal currency. Empires and nations have sought to possess gold as a medium of international exchange, as a store of wealth and in order to increase and preserve power. Individuals have used gold as a store of wealth and as insurance against the fluctuations and depreciation of paper money and other macroeconomic and geopolitical risks. Perhaps no other market in the world has the universal appeal of the gold market.Successful investing is about the diversification and management of risk. In layman's terms this means not having all your eggs in one basket. We know from history that markets can and do crash and if you are not diversified your entire nest egg can be wiped out. So a healthy portfolio includes a wide range of assets including a variety of equities with exposures to different market sectors and regions; a variety of different countries’ bonds; a diversified property portfolio; a cash component and a 5-15% allocation to gold-related investments and gold bullion. The key is to determine what amount of each asset class to have. In a globalised and increasingly integrated global economy, a portfolio should be compiled based upon current global macroeconomic fundamentals.Some exposure to gold should be included in all diversified portfolios. A good rule of thumb would be a minimum allocation of around 10% to gold and related gold-investments.One's motivation for buying gold is fundamental to deciding in which form you should buy it. Are you a speculator, investor or saver? Do you wish to take a short term speculative position in gold? Are you investing for the short, medium or long term? Or are you diversifying, saving or using gold as a form of financial insurance?Investing in physical goldPhysical gold should form a part of every properly diversified portfolio. It is a universal finite currency, held by every central bank of note in the world.It is to be taken possession of or stored with a secure third party and should not be traded. One does not trade an insurance policy and thus as a form of financial insurance, physical gold should not be traded.Gold bullion is the ultimate safe haven asset and a great way, if not the best way, of ensuring wealth preservation and for passing wealth from one generation to the next. Once the solid base or core holding of gold bullion is achieved in a portfolio then other investments in gold such as mining stocks and mutual funds and other more speculative gold investments can be considered.Numismatic or older and rare coins are bought not solely for their precious metal content but also for their rarity and their historical, aesthetic appeal. They are leveraged to the gold price which means that the price of these coins will generally surpass and increase faster than the gold price in a bull market (due to their historical and aesthetic value and to their rarity) and will decrease by more when gold is in a bear market.Many investors opt for high-quality pre-1933 gold coins graded MS-65 or better by either the Professional Coin Grading Service or the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation. They are bought by both collectors and investors and most investors opt to take possession of these older coins unless they have invested in significant quantities....Experienced and knowledgeable investors have long known that gold and gold related investments can be solid investment choices. Gold is stable in times of global geopolitical instability and when there is economic uncertainty, recessions and depressions. It is important that investors look at their portfolios holistically. Used correctly, gold and gold related investments can be highly effective components of a properly diversified investment portfolio.^---(from url)---^A nice article for the newbies... featuring two helpful graphics of the investment/risk pyramid.Enjoy.R. slingshot (12/24/06; 17:53:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 150466) Ho, Ho, Ho http://members.aol.com/melizo/midi/bells_gm.mid Merry Christmas to All, and to All a Good Night!****** A Little Music Maestro ******* Sierra Madre (12/24/06; 17:30:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 150465) This is Christmas, so this is OFF TOPIC, sort of... How do you see the Universe when you look up at the starry sky?Do you see it as a vast mystery of inconceivable masses of stars, and do you see humans as insignificant microbes, the product of chance, populating a planet lost in the immensity of space; a planet in itself of microscopic size in comparison with the giant stars out there...Do you consider the Universe as essential dead, empy except for us meaningless humans?I do NOT see it what way. When I "look upon the night's starred face.." I see a Universe teeming with an infinite number of humans whose habitation it is. All of whom yearn with more or less faith, for an extension of our lives in a world of Spirit.The importance of humans cannot be degraded by a comparison of their physical insignificance regarding their size when compared to the giant stars and vast galaxies of the Universe. Because we are endowed with souls, "whose faculties can comprehend the wondrous architcture of the world, and follow every wandering planets course, still climbing after knowledge infinite..."Our souls do not live in Time and Space, nor can they be measured in such terms, and our souls transcend Space and Time and do not come to an end with death. "Oh Death! Where is thy sting?" A marvel it is, that insignificant as we are physically with regard to a vast Universe, our souls and minds are capable of comprehending it. We humans are created beings, created according to a Design, a plan, a System, and not the result of chance. We are as Universal as salt, as water, as any chemical compound, and thus, we inhabit the whole Universe, and the whole Universe of humans prays to its Creator, at every instant.God rest you Merry, Gentlemen!SIERRA Goldilox (12/24/06; 17:04:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 150464) Christmas Eve battle @ Gandalf,Are you watching this? Your Microsoft Hawks just took the lead. Maybe the SuperChargers aren't so "invincible". Golden Lionheart (12/24/06; 16:17:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 150463) Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year I send the Seasons Greetings to all the Posters and Lurkers on this great Forum.I have seen little mention of Christmas on the forum so it looks like it has been left to a devout born again Atheist to spread the word. Its Christmas! Remember?I hope in 2007 we will have more posts about what gold is actually doing and is likely to do. I scan through the posts every day and quite honestly a lot of it bores me to tears. I would assume that most of us are investors in PM's, whether it is in the physical (good stuff) or stocks(where we can make money)so guys how about some input on how you see gold performing in 2007.Personally I see the gold price starting to climb again early in 2007 and supassing the $730 mark in short time.Eventually a year or two down the track I suspect it will double that price.Enough said. Its 38C where I live and I am off to the baech for a few hours. Cheers. contrarian (12/24/06; 12:49:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 150462) Shenanigans http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SCH502A.html Cramer Video: excellent exposee on what really happens behind the scenes in the stock market. In similar truth-telling vein, for those that have eyes that want to see and ears that want to hear, here's a link to a video that dispassionately lay out what happens when the oligarchy (military-industrial complex) runs out of enemies. mikal (12/24/06; 10:59:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 150461) Good vibrations resonate for the holidays http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/24/america/web.1224hiphop.php Fan asks hard questions about rap music - Americas - International Herald Tribune - Erik Eckholm - Dec 24A documentary film is just beginning to circulate on hi-hop music that we will be hearing much more about.This excellent article is two pages but very short.Most will find the social and cultural issues familiarexcept for the recent backlash within the black(and white) community, among hip-hop fans and from some practicing rap artists.The problem gets defined to a great extent herenot just in the effect on youth of numerous prevailing themes of violence, sexism, hedonism and crime, but where they question large "corporate sponsorship".They don't mention heavy metal or television or media advertising but at least the article focuses on thisnew film and it's beginning implications.All these concerns resemble the impact of big moneydistortions and dislocations on the world's political processes, financial markets and social, academic, religious and scientific institutions. Chris Powell (12/24/06; 10:36:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 150460) ETF investors buying the dip in silver http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=27509 A report from Resource Investor. slingshot (12/24/06; 09:25:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 150459) Dollar/Dinar http://www.bruneitimes.com.bn/section/opinion/19dec2006-3.php Worried about the US dollar.Slingshot-------<> Chris Powell (12/24/06; 09:10:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 150458) Like S. Korea, Thailand cites power to debase its currency http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061224/thailand_embattled_minister.html?.v=2 Thai Official Explains Capital ControlsBy Rungrawee C. PinyoratAssociated PressSunday December 24, 2006 BANGKOK, Thailand -- Thailand's Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula has called for China to allow its currency to rise against the dollar and has defended foreign currency controls he said were imposed to save the country's export-dependent economy."If currencies of our (export) competitors appreciate more or less at the same level as ours, I don't think we would need this measure any more," Pridiyathorn told The Associated Press."It would help a lot" if China revalued the yuan," he said, "but it would depend on the degree of revaluation."Pridiyathorn, the former central bank governor and U.S.-trained economist, said he watched with alarm as foreign investors poured three times more cash into the country in the first week of December than in a typical week in November, sending the baht to a nine-year high against the U.S. dollar."A small nation like ourselves -- if we don't protect ourselves, who else will protect us?" he said.With exporters complaining about the strengthening baht, he said, something had to be done to rein in speculators who were behind the surge and protect the economy."We have to save our country. We have to save one of the growth engines, which is exports," he said.While the measures imposed Monday inflicted pain on investors, failing to stem the baht's rise would have had even worse negative long-term consequences for economic growth and the stock market, he said."If we didn't do anything, the stock exchange would have plunged further and the catastrophe would have been more severe," he said.Still, Pridiyathorn -- who until now has courted little controversy -- and the Thai central bank have faced a barrage of criticism from investors inside and outside the country who endured a wild financial ride since the controls were announced Monday night.Thai shares plunged nearly 15 percent Tuesday -- rattling regional bourses -- but then bounced back 11 percent Wednesday after authorities rescinded the curbs on foreign stock investing while retaining them on bonds and other debt instruments. The market flattened out the rest of the week.The baht, meanwhile, weakened more than 3 percent over the course of the week since hitting a nine-year high Monday of 35.09 per U.S. dollar. Pridiayathorn pronounced himself satisfied Friday that the measures had achieved their desired effect on the currency.No financial greenhorn, Pridiyathorn is one of the most respected members of the interim Cabinet appointed by the military after the September military coup that ousted elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.After getting an MBA from Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania, he spent the next three decades in the country's commercial banking sector, including the Thai Farmer Bank and Export-Import Bank of Thailand, before becoming the country's central bank chief in 2001.But this week's events -- particularly the policy flip-flop -- have tarnished Pridiyathorn's reputation a bit."The measures were too strong and beyond the comprehension of investors," said Teerana Bhongmakapat, an economist of Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University. "It shows that the policy was made without thorough consideration. Foreign investors may think the authorities in this country will just do whatever they want."Thitinan Pongsudhirak, political scientist at Chulalongkorn University, said he expected strong pressure on the government to change its finance minister."The mistake has seriously undermined the government's credibility," he said. "The pressure will keep increasing and Pridiyathorn will be a liability that continues to undermine the government's credibility."But for now that appears unlikely with markets stabilizing and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont on Thursday expressing full support for his economic team, including Bank of Thailand Gov. Tarisa Watanagase.Pridiayathorn also said during the interview that the capital curbs were temporary but gave no timeframe for when they would all be lifted."This is a short-term measure. It's not supposed to stay for life," he said. "Once we get rid of the measure, the problem will be over, and I think the whole world will understand us."But pointing out that Thailand has $63 billion in foreign currency reserves, he said the central bank could continue to intervene in the currency market to buy dollars to help weaken the baht.For his part, Pridiyathorn appears unruffled by all the controversy and said that time would show that authorities had acted wisely."Credibility and integrity is the thing that you should observe. Not just one move," he said. "We're doing the right thing." Goldilox (12/24/06; 08:20:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 150457) Cramer on Hedge Funds @ slingshot,I especially like "It's all fiction, fiction, fiction," and "Spitzer's off to Albany, and the SEC doesn't really understand . . ." slingshot (12/24/06; 07:17:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 150456) (No Subject) http://tinyurl.com/ya4wlw Never get them right. slingshot (12/24/06; 07:12:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 150455) Cramer, Garbage or Gold Nugget http:tinyurl.com/ya4wlw Video of Cramer making some unusual statements.Slingshot------<> ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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