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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/24/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Netking
(6/24/01; 23:58:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 56788)
Israel Defence Force - home page
http://www.idf.il/english/news/main.stm
An interesting site for keeping up to date with what's happening in the M/East particularly with regard to current terrorist activity. I don't believe(IMHO)Israel has come this far in history to turn back now, more power to them.
Journeyman
(6/24/01; 23:18:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 56787)
Pro-semitic propaganda @JMB
Hi JMB!
I see your more thoughtful on this type of question than I originally realized.
I usually am in tune with your opinions in other areas.
I think Israel is a victim of "karma" of a kind, and set a disruptive precedent.
You can't take over territory (land, houses, etc.) from its owners without ticking off said owners. This includes the original take-over by the "founders" of Israel.
The Israelie leader Begin was classified as a terrorist by the British. But since, because the Mossad, etc. is sophisticated in handling US media & politicians, all have managed to be painted as heros. And we Americans believe it.
If this is a precedent, then the Basques, Kurds, etc. should pick a home territory somewhere, kick-out those living there and take it over.
Heck, maybe even some hard-core libertarians should grab a chunk of real-estate somewhere - - - maybe D.C.
Regards,
Journeyman
P.S. The Israelies also mistreat said Palestinians in ways similar to the way the Jews themselves have been mistreated (seizing land and bulldozing Palestinian homes for example). It's behavior like this that feeds anti-semitism.
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 23:11:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 56786)
Analysis: California's electricity lessons
http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=196653
Snippit:
Thus far, California has attempted to make electricity markets work almost entirely through manipulation of the supply side of the market. At times that has worked relatively well, but the recent events in California have exposed the web of constraints that exist on the supply side, including, production capacity constraints, new plant sitting constraints, pollution emission constraints, and constraints on the quantity of natural gas that can be shipped into the state in any given time period. Deregulating only the supply side of the market creates market imbalance, and when gas prices go up and demand increases the market is blown out of existence, no matter what profit opportunities might have existed in it.
The complete solution to the California electricity problem includes a combination of long-term contracting and real-time pricing for consumers. Consumers facing a single constant price for electricity have no more incentive to conserve during peak hours, such as on a hot summer afternoon, than during low consumption times, such as during the night. They also have no incentive to shift consumption away from times when production capacity of the grid is strained and production costs are highest.
Black Blade: Fairly good commentary and analysis. The folly of price caps.
SHIFTY
(6/24/01; 23:08:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 56785)
Periodic Ponzi Update PPU
http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm
Nasdaq 2,034.84 + Dow 10,604.59 = 12,639.43 divide by 2 = 6,319.71 Ponzi
Down 6.32 from last week
Sir RossL will update the chart on 6/29
Could be an interesting week.
Go GATA
Go Gold
:-)
$hifty
JMB
(6/24/01; 22:57:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 56784)
Journeyman
Might makes right?
That's a moral judgement. What say you? In poltics/war, might rules. If you don't like the rules go ahead and try to change them. If you lose, you probably die. Life's a struggle and we live in a sin cursed world.
In my opinion, Israel has been very patient. If they had lost in '48 do you think there would be any Jews living in Palestine? You certainly know the sad answer to that question. BTW, I'm not Jewish.
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 22:38:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 56783)
Asia Tanks
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
Most Asian markets look a bit in the red tonight.
Journeyman
(6/24/01; 22:31:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 56782)
So might makes right?@JMB
Regards,
Journeyman
US_Army(RET)
(6/24/01; 22:29:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 56781)
Journeyman - "Assists from other posters"
Agree.
THX
SLD
JMB
(6/24/01; 22:23:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 56780)
Black Blade
"... winner takes all."
1948....the Jews won.
Journeyman
(6/24/01; 22:19:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 56779)
Intimidation as mind control doesn't work well @various posters
Hi posters!
If Israelies or "jews" or green Martians tell me criticism of Israelie government policies or actions - - - or of jewish behaviors of various sorts is anti-semitic, just that fact is enough to make me anti-semitic.
Don't try to tell me or intimidate me into what I can say or think. Or what I can't.
Like the Israelie govt's Palastinian policy, this is a sure way to accomplish the opposite of its stated goal.
Regards,
Journeyman
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 22:15:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 56778)
RE: Auspec, tedw, JMB, journeyman and Army
The Sharon and Arafat Dog and Pony Show
I have friends, colleagues and acquaintances that are both Jew and Arab. I for one don't particularly care to get into Semitic or anti-Semitic debate. My point of view on this matter is the same as that with the Balkans and other such stupid conflicts. Essentially sell arms to all sides (arm them to the teeth), let them kill each other, and for the religious here - "Let God Sort em’ Out." These kooks haven't been able to solve their differences over the last several thousand years, so why not have them go at it and winner takes all. After all the US is not the world's policeman. The situation in the ME is beyond absurd - maybe we should "wash our hands" of them. That will never happen of course as the Israeli lobby is very influential and well financed, whereas the Arab states can only turn off the oil spigot. Anyway that's my take.
- Black Blade
Netking
(6/24/01; 22:09:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 56777)
Auspec/Tree
I say old chaps, don't dispair! . . . I hear on good authority that our box cars are to be painted 'Delux Gold' instead of standard black by personal request of the biggest closet gold bug of them all "Greenie" <grin>.
Journeyman
(6/24/01; 22:02:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 56776)
Assists from other posters @US_Army(RET) msg#: 56764
Hi US_Army(RET)!
You wrote,
"They are gleefully leading the world into a MidEast Armageddon…and we the American public are ignorantly following along…just as we did in our past support of unjust, murderous, criminal regimes." -US_Army(RET) msg#: 56764
If there was any doubt, a few recent posts strongly suggest yur correct.
Regards,
Journeyman
megatron
(06/24/01; 20:20:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 56775)
Droke gone nuts?
WooHoo, has he gone overboard! I guess crack finally became available where he lives.
auspec
(06/24/01; 20:16:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 56774)
tedw
For the second bout of this anti-semitism, I am with you still tedw.
auspec
(06/24/01; 20:14:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 56773)
Tree
I usually play Johnny River's "Tracks of My Tears" or some Boxcar Willie as I re read that essay regularly. It has a very humblig effect and prepares me to face the day! Do you think they will have a vault for gold storage in the cars?
tedw
(06/24/01; 20:10:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 56772)
SLD, Major US Army (ret)
http://www.usagold.com
Thank God your retired Major.
In case you didnt know it the so-called State of Isreal was given the land by the Big Guy himslef (sorry to pull rank on you).
Tree in the Forest
(06/24/01; 20:09:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 56771)
auspec re: Droke
Thanks! That one really made my day! <grin>
Tree in the Forest
(06/24/01; 19:57:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 56770)
How the Fed rapes us
http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/eco-rape/ch02.htm
A discussion of various different versions of US currency as it was gradually debased. Includes pictures and descriptions of various notes. A snippet:
"There is a rumor that the "Kennedy silver certificates"
were actually printed and that one of the first things President Lyndon B. Johnson did after assuming power was to have the "Kennedy silver certificates" destroyed. In 1964 Johnson, serving as the voice of the Federal Reserve bankers, said, "Silver has become too valuable to be used as money." This amounted to a brazen boast that the bankers
would eliminate any money with intrinsic value. On November 22, 1963, the day of Kennedy's funeral, the first 50 million "no-promise" Federal Reserve Notes were released into circulation. The symbolic celebration of the Federal Reserve bankers?
auspec
(06/24/01; 19:52:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 56769)
Tree
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/droke061801.html
You know if we have really figured much out we will be able to discuss it endlessly over leg irons. This one ought to top off the evening nicely.
Tree in the Forest
(06/24/01; 19:33:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 56768)
auspec
I heard about the Droke article but haven't been able to find it. Do you have a link? What are we going to do, auspec, when we finally have it all figured out? Things'll get pretty dull around here! (unless au takes off)
JMB
(06/24/01; 19:07:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 56767)
US Army (Ret)
Say Major, I'm curious; just what do you mean when you say,... "the so called 'State' of Israel"? You got something against Jews or Israel? You ever hear of "The right of conquest"?
Pfc JMB, USMCR (Ret)
Journeyman
(06/24/01; 19:06:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 56766)
I'm afraid you may have that right @US_Army(RET) msg#: 56764
ALL of it.
Regards,
Journeyman
Netking
(06/24/01; 19:03:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 56765)
@Peter Asher - Sunday ponderings
Peter, interesting callender quotes from your scientology callender's L Ron Hubbard. I personally get my charge direct from the 'Manufacturers Handbook'(Bible), I find it a bit like having silver powerlines, less loss of the original "current"!(IMHO)
The scientific establishment would suggest that a state enthropy exists where things have been/are constantly breaking down into a less & less complex state, making a creation or "intelligence behind a formation" a certainty. The ponderings of life, have a Golden week all!
US_Army(RET)
(06/24/01; 18:45:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 56764)
MidEast - "Tedw"
From Tedw
RE: "Good interview with Ariel Sharon on MSNBC; it is also on www.worldnetdaily.
Sharon is warning that the situation cannot continue. Expect to see military action against the Palestinians soon.
At the very least, expect to see retaliation by OPEC.
It's going to be a long, hot summer…"
--------------------------------
Ted, am sorry to have missed interview…expect will see more about it and others like it in media soon as Sharon continues his current "propaganda" parade here in the West.
It is going to be a long, hot summer ….and fall, and winter, etc. etc. until he (Sharon) and his fascist govt. learn they cannot continue outright theft, murder and mayhem on an indigenous people even with full U.S. Government backing.
They are gleefully leading the world into a MidEast Armageddon…and we the American public are ignorantly following along…just as we did in our past support of unjust, murderous, criminal regimes.
While many may just sit back and obfusticate and prognosticate how great this will be for the POG. I submit eventually, there will be real "Hell" to pay…
"At the very least, expect to see retaliation by OPEC." --- is a great understatement. "Retaliation" from the majority of the nations of the rest of the world more likely…on both the so-called "State" of Israel and the U.S.
This is the same sad story we the (US)…(some of which I personally and "not proudly" have actively played a part in).. have been through and participated in again and again, first with our own native Indian population and with countless others both in our own back yard (south/central America's…Asia, etc.).
This weekend, just happening to be the 125 anniversary of the great military disaster of the "Little Big-horn",…finds me wondering just what induced action will allow for Sharon's final "solution" for the Palestinian people, just as we did for the native American.
Sorry 'bout the "off-topic" submission...but could not let previous post and poster think submission was "un-noticed."
Respectfully,
SLD
MAJ, US Army (Ret)
auspec
(06/24/01; 18:39:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56763)
TiF
My 'raise' of 1 Committee of 300 turned out to not be a raise at all as it was also highlighted in your "Beating The New World Order" by John Galt {no less}. Will have to track down who this John Galt is, perhaps Dr. John Coleman?
Light reading for a Sunday, no? Good time to pull up Clif Droke's cattle cars and leg irons. Did you read that one?
Peter Asher
(06/24/01; 17:56:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 56762)
Addendum to post below,
Just noticed how the Hubbard quote on this months calendar fits what we who post here strive for.
"Single men and determined groups have been the only makers of space in which Man could walk free."
auspec
(06/24/01; 17:45:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 56761)
cb2
Sorry about your virus, I seem to have come down with a fever, yellow fever. No cure yet, but soon hopefully.
CoBra(too)
(06/24/01; 17:26:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 56760)
@ Black Blade - Re your Anatomy of an Energy Crisis (Post-56749)
Another exceptional piece of insight. And as I'm not claiming to be an engineer, I'm still asking myself, why nothing ever happened in the aftermath of the 2 severe oil
cises of the 70's.
... and as I recall, the Club of Rome was touting the same problem in 1980 and was laughed at, so here we are 20 + years later with the same problem, though probably a lot closer to the zenith of the Hubbert Curve.
And yet, even 20 years ago there were solutions to the problem in form of hydrogen appliances technology. While it's true you need electricity to produce hydrogen fuel - which is is nothing new ... just water electrolysis technology - and applied to everyday life - like in gas stations - you just pump hydrogen instead of petrol and don't even emit the s..t and pollute the air - ... and yes we'll still find enough power to get rid of the oil ... and the Sheiks -and they know and that's why they may be buying gold. Though, BTW, Oil is a commodity too expensive to burn, since most industries use the it in a better way.
... Reminds me of the two old Nufi (New-Foundland) Farmers finally boarding a 747 from Halifax to Gander. First time flyers ... and as the captain says, we're cruising at an altitude of 30.000 ft and we've had unbelieveable bad luck on this flight, and as we had to shut down the third engine costing as another hour in the air - but dont worry we've got enough power to reach our destination - except we'll be late.
So Nufi I, says to Nufi II, Ah' sure hope they don't have to shut down the fourth engine - Otherwise we may have to stay up here all night! ... D'ya hear Capt'n Allan - the anolgy to your $ idiosyncracy? - We can go on - on hydrogen, but not on the nitrogen you're passing on as credit - conceived out of air - it's just the debit in the water to impair the debonnaire, air before the slaughter.
Back to my Qu.: BB - could you please look into a canadian co. called Stuart Energy (HHO-TSE) - went public last yr and is seemingly leading in the field of hydrogen fuel supply and appliances? - a co leading in its filed - IMHO.
And as I don't know - go gold - BC BN ... thanks to Scruffy and my Beagle Suffy says the same - cb2
Can't answer e- or other mail - may have virus ...
auspec
(06/24/01; 16:52:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 56759)
Tree in the Forrest
http://users.sisna.com/ThaiRanch/c3-synop.htm
I'll see your Lincoln assasination and your Ft. Knox gold and I'll raise you one Committee of 300.
Peter Asher
(06/24/01; 16:45:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 56758)
Friend Journeyman
(It being Sunday ------)
Re <<<<" a simple first cause." Like the Big Bang. Or for those who don't like that, God. >>>>
Who do you consider might of built that bomb and lit the fuse?
From L Ron Hubbard's ‘The Factors’
1. Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of an effect.
2. In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.
Netking
(06/24/01; 16:19:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 56757)
@Rich Powell
(56756). . . Rich. it may be, but one thing for sure they're running out of cards to play & room to maneuver in yes, like the proverbial cornered fox with the hounds closing in.
R Powell
(06/24/01; 15:07:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 56756)
Thanks to all
I just finished reading. Great stuff from everyone.
Keep it coming.
Will one more Fed. rate cut, possible this week, be the extra straw that breaks the camel's back?
Rich
Tree in the Forest
(06/24/01; 15:03:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 56755)
The Lincoln assasination
http://www.cyberclass.net/galt.htm
I previously posted that the Lincoln assasination investigation was still being kept secret, even after all of these years. John Wilkes Booth's family was from England. Could the British have assasinated Lincoln? From the above link:
"on April 14, 1865, President Lincoln was assassinated
at Ford's Theater by John Wilkes Booth. Many researchers believe that the tragedy was the result of Lincoln's refusal to borrow money at high interest rates from the international bankers, electing instead to issue United States notes to finance the war."
Journeyman
(06/24/01; 14:55:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 56754)
First Causes @SteveH msg#: 56748
Hi Steve!
You could be right about a primary cause for the credit bubble.
But we humans have a tendency to attribute things to a simple "first cause." Like the Big Bang. Or for those who don't like that, God.
But the truth is that for the most part, we humans have a large dose of serendipity (or the opposite) in all our activities.
No one individual or group is in control and the "final" outcome of most events is the net result of a composite of millions (or many times that number) of un-coordinates (or only very loosely coordinated) inputs.
In other words, we humans give much too much credit to the power of the manipulators. Only in retrospect do the ones who pushed in the given direction look omnipotent. Up until then, it was a gamble, particularly to themselves.
Regards,
Journeyman
Tree in the Forest
(6/24/01; 14:13:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 56753)
Amazing revelations re: Fort Knox Gold! Read this!!
http://peterbeter.host.sk/docs/all/dbal05.htm
Written in 1975 by Dr. Peter Beter who died in 1987. This man has some credentials. Astounding if true! Many other revelations also. Some snippets:
" As I say these words, we are again being fed optimistic lies by Rockefeller agents in our government from President Ford on down when we are actually poised on the brink of a far worse economic cliff than the one we fell over a year ago. In this regard I want to talk to you today about the following three topics:
#1--THE CIA, FORT KNOX, AND THE POISONING OF AMERICA
#2--HOW THE ROCKEFELLER BROTHERS ARE PREPARING TO SACRIFICE
NEW YORK CITY TO TRIGGER GENERAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
#3--THE CONTINUING BUILD-UP TO A NEW U.S. CONSTITUTION AND WAR IN ASIA."
"CIA operatives have stolen from 40 to 60 pounds--pounds, not ounces or grams--of deadly radioactive Plutonium-239 from various stations in the United ed States. Plutonium-239 is the deadliest substance imaginable, and is the material used for nuclear weapons; and these 40 to 60 pounds of stolen plutonium have been processed into an incredibly dangerous radioactive superpoison so lethal that one (1) gram--1/28th of an ounce--is enough to kill over 60,000 people; and this insane illegal poison is now stored in
the "Central Core Vault" at Fort Knox!
The Central Core Vault, which was originally designed to house the nation's gold, has been emptied of that gold and turned by the Rockefellers' spy establishment into a chamber of death, containing enough radioactive superpoison to kill over one-third of the world's population! Shellfish
toxins, my eye! But, my friends, you still haven't heard the worst of it.
The clandestine operation involving the plutonium poison was
not only insane but it has been botched as well. This
radioactive liquid poison in the Central Core Vault is stored in a number of lead-lined casks to somewhat resemble large milk cans in outer appearance. Most of these were
put there as long ago as 1968, even before the last of the gold left Fort Knox. They have not been subject to the safety precautions spelled out for radioactive materials by the former Atomic Energy Commission, and the containers began corroding long ago. Leakage began occurring several
years ago as a result, and it's steadily accelerating now. The entire United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox
and its environs are already contaminated with radioactivity, and it is increasing daily!
"But", you may ask, "how can these things have happened? How could the gold have been taken out from under the Army's nose? And how could the CIA, or anyone else, have sneaked this plutonium poison into Fort Knox? Everyone knows
Fort Knox is impregnable."
My friends, the answer is so simple it may amaze you. First, I must correct one erroneous item contained in my monthly
AUDIO LETTER No. 2 for July 1975. It is true that it
takes two keys and two people to open the vaults in the Bullion Depository, but the Commanding General of Fort Knox is not one of them! The two people with the keys are the
Treasury agent in charge and his deputy, both Treasury officials. Furthermore, control and authority over the depository building and the immediate grounds within the fence surrounding it, lies exclusively with the Treasury Department. The United States Army has no authority whatsoever over the Bullion Depository. The Army never becomes involved in any way with the activities at the
Depository except when the Treasury requests Army Guard duty for major shipments of gold.
What you probably think of as Fort Knox, the famous Bullion
Depository with small grounds and a fence around it, is properly called the "United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox, Kentucky." It is a little Treasury island located geographically within a huge Army Reservation that is called Fort Knox. Access to the Bullion Depository is possible without passing through any Army Guard stations, and without the Army even having to pay any attention. There is a controlled access divided public highway, US
31-W, that runs from Louisville north of Fort Knox south to
Elizabethtown, and it runs smack through the middle of the huge Fort Knox Military Reservation. If you stay on that highway, you can drive all the way through Fort Knox without stopping or being interfered with in any way. But if you take any of the exits onto a crossroad within the Fort Knox Reservation, then you will come to a Guardhouse within a few hundred feet. Driving north or south along Highway 31-W through Fort Knox, you come to a point at which you get a good view of the imposing Bullion Depository, which
sits on a hill perhaps a quarter mile east of the Highway.
If you take the nearest exit from Highway 31-W, you find yourself on a crossroad that goes right past the Depository, right up to an Army Guardhouse where you will, of course, be stopped. But about 50 feet before you reach the Army guard, there's a wide driveway that leads into the Bullion Depository itself. If you turn into that driveway, the Army guard 50 feet down the road will certainly see you, but he need not take any action. Instead, it's up to the Treasury guards to either admit you or keep you out of the Depository grounds itself. Thus the Bullion Depository at Fort Knox is virtually impregnable for any potential thieves from the outside. The Treasury people at the Depository need only squawk once for help, and the Army will be swarming all over the area in moments.
But for an "inside job" through the Treasury itself, the
Bullion Depository is a sitting duck. Access to the Depository is exactly the same as it would be if the Depository were located clear outside the Fort Knox Military Reservation, since no Army checkpoints have to be passed; and inside the fence that surrounds the Depository building, everything is strictly up to the Treasury--unless they call upon the Army for assistance. So the Treasury Department had to come to terms at some level with the Intelligence people responsible for the radioactive plutonium poison. The United States Treasury is now acting as a nuclear
banker for the United States Intelligence Community, which works for the Rockefeller Brothers. They wanted to put their deadly valuables in a great big safety deposit box--the Central Core Vault--and the Treasury allowed them to do so.
The people who went to Fort Knox last year on September 23,
1974--six Congressmen, one Senator, and over 100 news media
people--were all exposed to this radiation without their
knowledge. Far from being warned of this hazard, the very
existence of the Central Core Vault was deliberately hidden from the unsuspecting visitors. As a result, every one of those visitors has grounds for a lawsuit against the federal government and against the Treasury officials personally responsible for this terrible trick, under the Federal Tort Claims Act. Had I known about the radioactive plutonium poison at that time, I would have publicly warned everyone to stay away. As it is now, all I can do is to suggest that those who visited Fort Knox last year be checked up medically. It is even more urgent that those who work at the Depository be checked. I am informed that those who
have worked there for a sufficient period of time may already have the beginnings of cancer. Most doctors are unfamiliar with the effects of radiation poisoning, and it can easily be misdiagnosed. Elevated blood sugar, irritability, dizziness, itching, elevated temperature, and a number of other symptoms can result from radiation poisoning. For further information I refer you
to that wonderful book, "ARE YOU RADIOACTIVE?" by Linda
Clark.
Knowing what we know now, it is obvious why
the man who invited the visitors to Fort Knox last year, United States Treasury Secretary William Simon, knew better than to go there himself. It also explains why the Government has so steadfastly refused to admit the existence of the Central Core Vault. They dare not open it now, even for a peep show. And on October 9 just last week if you will recall, President Ford abruptly canceled--yes, canceled--a scheduled trip to Louisville, Kentucky, near Fort Knox; and just 16 hours earlier I had publicly broken the plutonium poison story in Los Angeles. Before that, our puppet President probably knew nothing about it.
But why has the Church committee of the Senate, which has had information about all of this for over a month, kept it so carefully covered up? Has Senator Frank Church, whose
presidential ambitions are well known, found what he considers a better use for this life-and-death information than to tell the American people about it?
Up to now, the main effects of the radioactive contamination
seeping out of the Central Core Vault have been confined mostly to the immediate vicinity of the Bullion Depository itself. But the Central Core Vault was never intended to house radioactive substances. Its walls, ceiling, and floors are made of reinforced concrete several feet thick, but any such concrete structures form thousands of cracks all through it over a period of time--some visible, some microscopic. That makes no difference for gold storage; but for radioactive materials, the concrete structure of the Central Core Vault is like a giant sieve with tiny holes on all sides. Once the radioactive poison gets out of those lead-lined storage-tank cans, as it already is doing, a good fraction of it will eventually find its way outside. A major catastrophe--radioactive poisoning of the entire southeast portion of the United States--is now a real possibility unless steps are taken to prevent it. But I am
informed that there is no way to neutralize this radioactive
poison. All that can be done is to seal it off from the
environment. Even if there were some other safe place to
take the leaking cans of poison for storage, which there is not, it would not be safe to open the Central Core Vault now, much less enter it. This means that the United States
Bullion Depository at Fort Knox must be abandoned forthwith, and a massive tomb of lead and rock built around it to contain the radiation. The contents of the Depository--any left-over dregs of gold still there, the stores of curare poison and other drugs and poisons for the Intelligence Community, Bureau of Engraving plates, important documents, everything--has already been subjected to radioactive
contamination, and are unsafe so that they might just as
well be entombed with the Depository itself. Needless to say, a project like this--the abandonment of the Bullion Depository and the construction of a radiation shielding mound over it--could scarcely be done and kept secret. Thousands of people drive by the Depository every day on the public highway, US 31-W; and even if that highway were closed, the fate of the Bullion Depository would necessarily become known if these corrective steps were taken.
But that would lead back to the source of the trouble--the
Rockefeller Brothers themselves through their intrigues with the CIA, FBI, and the rest of the United States Intelligence
establishment! The only way the Rockefellers can protect
themselves in this hideous thing they have caused, is not to do anything so that no questions will be asked. By the time the spreading effects of the radioactive leakage from Fort Knox can no longer be hidden, they expect to have their dictatorship in place. Then they can do whatever is necessary without worrying about you or I or anybody else. Think about it. Therefore nothing will be done about the hideous, invisible killer fog slowly creeping outward from Fort Knox unless the public knows about it and demands action."
Netking
(6/24/01; 13:49:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 56752)
Gold sector disappear under new indices (Aust.)
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0106/25/biztech/biztech3.html
Snippit:
". . .The deathknell has sounded for the sharemarket's media and gold sectors, with index provider Standard & Poor's today launching its 12 new globally recognised equity indices.
The new indices, which adopt the global industry classification standard (GICS) created by S&P and fellow index operator Morgan Stanley Capital International (MSCI), will run parallel to the existing 49 indices for the next nine months.
After that, the sector indices will be streamlined to the new GICS indices. Media stocks will move into "consumer discretionaries" and gold into "materials". Also disappearing will be the resource sectors, which mainly move into "materials" and transport and engineering which will move into the new "industrials" sector. . ."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sir Belgian(a.k.a. Sir Green fingers!)(56730)I agree & suggest that Sir ORO's market/economic theory may not come to pass as he suggests/hopes. Your garden looks impressive at it's peak with everything planted & in full bloom/fruiting, but not so when it looks barren and the young plants have just been placed in the ground. The same is true of gold/silver(has always been), people will chase it like crazy during a move & particularly so at the peak. These Gold & Silver markets are small. It will take just a small spark for ignition. . . I believe we will return to a basis of valuation of 40-60% of the currency backing for gold.
Peter Asher
(6/24/01; 13:44:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 56751)
Steve, Black Blade
Consider your last posts in light of mine below!
Peter Asher
(6/24/01; 13:40:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 56750)
turbohawg (6/24/01; 08:08:24MT -msg#: 56729)
Maybe it's the war between the Whinercrats and the Exploiticans.
Although it could actually be a joint venture.
I always suspected that the last energy ‘shortage’, with all those tankers hove to of shore, was a ploy to get the natives happy with gasoline at any price so long is they could have it around the clock and without a line at the pump. It's the ole’ ‘bang their head against the wall and it will feel so good when they stop’ gambit.
Now we have a longer term and bigger game perhaps. First, pump up the consumption machine while curtailing capacity, then let that drive up the price and create deprivation to boot. Finally, eliminate the deprivation and the herd will accept the price.
There is allot more money to be made by the ‘Big Guys’ in this adventure, than in that penny-ante gold carry trade.
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 13:37:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 56749)
Anatomy of an Energy Crisis
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2001/05/08/lookhow.DTL
Energy Crisis Overview: How we got here
Snippit:
With not enough power to meet demand, California has been thrown into an energy emergency. Here's a look at the factors contributing to the state's problems.
Black Blade: An interesting step by step process of the California Reregulation debacle. Now it threatens to spill over into the rest of the US economy. New York and other parts of New England have kicked into high gear in hopes of avoiding the same foolish moves made on the left coast. The east coasters may just slip by this year with a bit of help from East Canadian natural gas supply. The prospects for the West and Midwest are more grim.
SteveH
(6/24/01; 13:29:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 56748)
Max and Peter
Enablers...
I believe that there is an event or law or both or something else that can be pointed to that precipated the great credit bubble. It is an event that passed unnoticed at the time but should be rearing its ugly head about now as having been the obvious culprit. Perhaps it was derivatives or futures, but I believe it goes back to around 92.' It is related to the repeal of the Glas-Stiegle(sp?) act and may have something to do with derivatives or futures but it is more specific, more obviously to the tune, "Now, why didn't I see that?" in nature. It could have been the appointment of Rubin to the Treasury, it could have been Clinton telling his cronies something. Whatever it was, it set in motion a perilous vehicle of financial stresses that in the beginning allowed a President to share in unprecedented prosperity at the expense of longer-term stability. It could have been of such nature as to have been short-sightedness; but I believe that a plan was hatched that had the short-term benefit of political expediency but that also allowed for the greatest corporate merger of international companies that stregnthed the corporation, weakend the individual, and threatens our US sovereignty. This act or law or agreement or whatever it was needs to be narrowed down and discussed forthwith, else we stand to loose a proper perspective of why we stand where we do today. For in nailing down this unfortuitous past event that has brought our system to perilous instability, we will come to know if we are here because we are just plain stupid or if because we are but someone's pawns and didn't know we were even in the game. What say you?
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 13:19:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 56747)
CALIFORNIA ENERGY CRUNCH BLAME GAME
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/24/MN227488.DTL&type=news
Power players lay blame - Deregulation creators defend their actions
Snippit:
Sacramento -- Five years after dismantling California's energy markets, former Gov. Pete Wilson says he's proud of his role in deregulation and is "stunned and outraged" that his successor tries to pin the blame on him.
Former state Senate President pro tem Bill Lockyer, now the state attorney general, is both contrite and vengeful, recently saying he wanted to put a powerful energy executive -- and friend of President Bush -- in prison with an amorous cellmate named Spike.
Former Assembly Speaker Curt Pringle, presently a lobbyist, now forwards e- mail jokes to fellow Republicans with Davis re-election slogans, including: "Davis in 2002: Your bridge to the 18th century."
Davis, he said, has blamed "the new administration in Washington, the old administration in Sacramento, power providers. It's interesting, because there was not a peep out of the lieutenant governor (Davis) at the time during what I thought was a fairly active and public debate. He was hardly without a voice.
Black Blade: The blame game continues. Ya just gotta laugh at politicians when they get their tits caught in the wringer and they begin squealing like stuck pigs. State Attorney (parasite) General Lockyer has been busy demonizing power firms as well. He told the Wall Street Journal his plans for Kenneth Lay, chairman of the Texas energy trader Enron Corp.: "I'd love to personally escort Lay to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey.' " It appears that he admits that rape is common and acceptable in California prisons and that he condones rape as a form of punishment. Interesting take for an Democrat Attorney General.
auspec
(6/24/01; 13:19:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 56746)
Couple of Tidbits Out of an Old Midas- MAY 22
Information is pouring in from all over and from various sources that there is indeed a Gold Syndicate (part of which may be a de-facto situation) that is taking on The Gold Cartel. This Gold Syndicate knows that what GATA is claiming is true and they also believe that Frank Veneroso gold loan numbers of 10,000 to 16,000 tonnes (two to three times what the industry acknowledges) are the correct ones.
This Gold Syndicate includes one of the most famous names in Wall Street history, the Chinese, and aggressive players from the Middle East. The gold market is so tight that I have been told by the best of sources that some of these interests may soon resort to buying up gold reserves in the ground at a price from gold producers. The Gold Syndicate has been accumulating for a few months now, but when the GATA Dow Jones story broke two weeks, they felt it was time to be more aggressive, for they know that GATA has the goods on the collusive cabal shorts.
Peter Hambro, chief executive of Peter Hambro Mining and an experienced hand in the gold market, said he first noticed big signs of excitement at a conference organised by the World Gold Council last Friday. This caused traders in Asia, where markets were open over the weekend, to drive the price up by more that $22 to $296.
"There is a fairly significant sea-change in thinking," he said. "Inflation in the US is certainly a concern and with the euro looking dodgy and the yen under pressure, gold is as good a place to put your money as any. Mind you, some people say that is an old fashioned view."
He said there are also strong rumours that the Bank of China has become a big buyer of gold. It holds $130 billion (£92 billion) of foreign exchange reserves and as relations with the US deteriorate it is switching them out of dollars into gold.
"I suppose they don't want their reserves managed by the central banker of the enemy, Alan Greenspan," he said." END
Comments: No telling what will be found when one finally sorts through that old stack of papers. This does clear up the question as to whether the China buying is private or official. Wouldn't that be something if it takes the Red Chinese to stop the manipulation of the Western Gold Market?
Mr. Green$pan, Tear down that wall!
Journeyman
(6/24/01; 13:16:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 56745)
Barry Riley: gold advocate
Read that article. It presented a pretty excellent picture of how things are that most of us here would find it hard to disagree with.
The only negative aspect was Riley's commentary. He didn't refute a single pro-gold point.
If you disregarded the fallacy of condemning the source, you'd begin to consider gold as a good investment.
Regards,
Journeyman
Tree in the Forest
(6/24/01; 13:08:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 56744)
Interesting essays from Leo Melamed
http://www.leomelamed.com/home.htm
Leo Melamed has a number of very interesting essays on his website (link). Here's a snippet from an essay on the explosive growth of the futures markets after 1971:
"Success begets respectability which begets success. Our futures market membership scrolls began to swell with those blue-blooded names representing the very high priests of the temples of finance, those very firms who shunned us at the beginning: Goldman Sachs, Phibro-Salomon, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan, Mercantile House, Bank of America, Citicorp,
Chase Manhattan, Manufacturers Hanover, and on and on. And
they were all welcome; our members were not intimidated by the competition these big names represented.
One cannot, however, speak of milestones without mentioning cash- settlement. Once this revolutionary innovation for settling delivery obligations replaced the time-honored physical delivery methodology, the limitations for futures markets were dramatically removed. Cash-settlement ushered in a new era for futures, and with it, the third generation
of futures contracts—index markets. It also breathed life into a restructured option market thus creating a vastly expanded universe of users and uses for futures. The product possibilities now became limited only by one's own imagination.
Old Yeller
(6/24/01; 13:07:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 56743)
Perpetuating the real estate bubble
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34195-2001Jun22.html
From the trends in the re-fi game,this would appear to be a matter of upmost importance.Clearly,there is a lot of faith out there that home equity is solid enough to employ tactics such as these.
Thanks to QuietBear at bearforum for the link.
On a different topic,Greenspan's quotes in the"Credit Bubble Bulletin",this week are extremely difficult to fathom.Not that the man is ever easy to interpret,but these statements appear to be the words of someone occupying a reality diametrically opposed from us mere mortals.
Max Rabbitz
(6/24/01; 13:00:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56742)
Peter Asher
Yes, Alfred E. Newman is the hero of my generation. Soon Alfred will meet Godzilla. Unlike some I am not looking forward to this. The increased wealth of gold investments are unlikely to offset the decline in the general quality of life and increased stress and global problems. I expect a lot more crime and great hardship on those least responsible for the situation. The only bright side, other than a vindication of my perceptions and fears, is a forced re-evaluation of values.....for those who survive.
Netking
(6/24/01; 12:57:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 56741)
India's silver demand rises
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=20563
Snippit:
". . . The main demand factors were that the Indian consumption of silver in industrial applications rose sharply in 2000, up by over 21 per cent to 1,430 tonnes. India has emerged as the third largest industrial user of silver in the world after the U.S. and Japan. Given that the industry has grown by 6-7 per cent in the real terms for the last three years, industrial demand would have played a larger role than fabrication (jewellery making) demand in the entire silver physical demand of India.
The biggest rise in industrial silver demand in India last year was seen in pharmacy and chemicals, which rose by over 60 per cent. Much of the growth came from silver nitrate production, which also surged last year. In addition to this, ayurvedic uses of silver rose year-on-year. . ."
Black Blade
(6/24/01; 12:49:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 56740)
Expected hot summer to worsen energy woes
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/06/23/MN125155.DTL
El Nino may be waking up in Pacific
Snippit:
It's the third day of summer and already there are warnings that a new El Nino is skulking around the far Pacific. Worse, new government satellite photos indicate that the increasingly damaging West Coast drought is going to continue, and hot temperatures this summer will exacerbate California's energy crisis. "In some parts of the West, this long-lasting drought has created considerable pain. In the Pacific Northwest, water supplies are dangerously low, and temperatures should be up, which will exacerbate the energy crisis."
Black Blade: The recent excess snowmelt runoff in the Sierra's and the Pacific Northwest will soon end and the supply of hydroelectric power will decrease. California will soon have to rely on increased production from in-state production as out of state providers are now less inclined to deal with the state as "Red" Davis and his cronies pursue providers for $9 billion in refunds (very little of which is slated for customers). California and the Western states had better hope for moderate summer temperatures. Rolling blackouts could become a way of life.
auspec
(6/24/01; 12:37:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 56739)
What do We Learn From History? Dr. Heinrich Leopold
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/leopold062501pv.html
An easy and enjoyable read. M1 & M3---- Let them explode on their books, not in your hands.
Got hot shiny metal?
auspec
(6/24/01; 12:24:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 56738)
From Jay Taylor's Gold And Tech Stocks
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/taylor062501pv.html
GOLD
My friend Randy from B.C. sent the following email to me this past week.
"Hi Jay,
"Trust all is well. I have a question and was hoping you might have time to address it. If indeed a gold syndicate exists, composed of George Soros, Middle East interests and the Chinese et al. could they simply bid $276 on all futures contracts forcing the shorts to cover and thereby breach the fortress? It appears war is being waged in the $272-$274 range, is it not a simple case of bidding higher?
"As always, appreciate your insights. God bless. Randy."
MY RESPONSE -{Jay Taylor's}
Dear Randy,
I think the kind of buyers we are talking about are highly sophisticated. They have learned that they can accumulate a great amount of gold in the $272-$274 range as the short sellers continue to pound the market according to Bill Murphy. At the same time, I believe those same buyers know very well that Frank Veneroso's gold lease numbers are right and that gold should be trading upward toward $600 rather than where it is today. So as long as Goldman Sachs, Morgan Chase, Deutsche Bank and the remainder of the Cartel are willing to keep feeding them gold at these low prices, they will take it all day long. Actually, on Friday, gold traded for a good part of the day in the $274-$275 range before getting slammed by the cartel late in the day, as the buyers went home early for the weekend.
June 25, 2001
auspec note-- This Jay Taylor is not the same as ceo {chief elitist officer} of Placer Dome. Much to the pleasure of the Editor of JTG&TS.
Peter Asher
(6/24/01; 11:49:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 56737)
Steve & Max
The Prime Enabler --- Ponzzi Paper
Money can't be "Printed" if no-one borrows it. The three basic categories for qualification are income, collateral and credit history . The income was the easy one. A few week's pay stubs or a few month's bank statements (formerly good for only high risk/interest) became the norm in lieu of two years of tax returns.
The collateral is where the miracle was performed: Paper Wealth! The phenomena of the brainwashed majority pumping their weekly and monthly savings through the stock markets, was the tide that raised all wealth boats. Also, the easy profits from the market money pump contributed to additional collateral via rising home prices. Home equity collateral was then expanded by 100-125% mortgages. This was the equivalent of the 10% stock margin leverage of the Twenties, just being collateralized with different security.
The expanding collateral loan base and easy qualifications liquefied the composite credit world so that almost anyone could subsidize income as needed by additional borrowing to service debt. All the folks "Good Credit "history then became the primary factor for loan qualification and for loan solicitation. This third factor has also applied to the whole world of credit cards, not just secured loans. Certainly, the advent of the derivative enabled all this loosening of loan qualification requirements. The thing is, a derivative itself is only as good as the ‘credit’ of its writer. If events cause the bulk of this "insurance" coverage to come due, those same events may include there being no money to pay it.
Now Steve asks "who caused it and what they stood to gain by it?" Before this last 10/12 year period, most mortgages stayed with the original lender. Suddenly, it seemed, mortgages were being sold and resold. Rather then being created for an income stream, mortgages are now most often created to be an instrument to sell at a mark-up. Declining interest rate are what makes this viable. Mortgage paper behaves as bonds do, when interest rates drop, the yield factor increases the asset value of the paper. Notice that the latest rate cuts have not spread into mortgages and other long term paper. As interest nears the bottom, the yield advantage of earlier written paper becomes less likely to hold into the future.
Meanwhile, though, the writers and subsequent sellers of mortgages are "off-the hook" as soon as the paper is out of their hands. Add to that the dominance of the market by large outfits with scores of loan agents only concerned with their commission and putting the most positive of ‘spins’ on loan applications sent to the underwriters, and you have the easiest money in history.
The conservative banker with his eye on the balance sheet has been replaced by Alfred E. Newman, the mortgage salesman saying "What, me worry"
JMB
(6/24/01; 11:40:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 56736)
Has the final act of the refi game begun?
http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/business/realestate/docs/harney23.htm
It's getting harder to keep up with the Jones'...especially if the Jones' have a little equity left in their homes. Rising unemployment will undoubtedly lead to higher mortgage delinquency rates while the Yuppy mentality scrambles to keep gas in their BMWs. It appears that the last act has begun.
tedw
(6/24/01; 11:38:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 56735)
Mideast
http://www.usagold.com
Good interview with Ariel Sharon on MSNBC; it is also on www.worldnetdaily.
Sharon is warning that the situation cannot continue. Expect to see military action against the Palestenians soon.
At the very least, expect to see retaliation by OPEC.
Its going to be a long,hot summer
auspec
(6/24/01; 10:46:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 56734)
Rich Powell
Lease Rates- Another Vantage
Rich, this is another snippet out of Bill Murphy's most recent Midas explaining a different view of falling lease rates.
"It is clear that the inordinate heavy selling of past years is drying up. At the same time, strong physical demand supports price setbacks. One of the clues to the lighter selling is the drop of the one month lease rate to 1.57%. Over the past couple of weeks, it has dropped steadily from 2% plus rates, while the one year rate has held very steady at about 2%. This tells me that demand for speculative type of borrowed gold is decreasing."
Comment: He goes on to explain that increased volatility and other factors has lead to gold borrowers "backing off".
Thanks for your regular market reports especially the "2 fers" and "3 fers".
auspec
(6/24/01; 10:27:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 56733)
Robert Chapman
Snippet
From The International Forecaster:
"Gold continues to fight its titanic battle against the Gold Cartel and against all odds. $271 continues to hold against the shorts as physical buyers make themselves felt from all over the world, particularly India."
"The Deutsche Bundesbank claims it is completely living up to the Washington Agreement and their gold stock as of 5/31/01 is 3,469 tons and that does not include the 232 tons being held by the ECB. They also state they are not active in the business of gold derivatives and gold swaps."
Comments-- Nothing here to follow up on his May information regarding Green$pandex and the gold market, unfortunately.
Strong physical buying out of India.
Camel
(6/24/01; 10:04:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 56732)
Libertarians
Journeyman-I am reprinting John Doe's excellent statement of Libertarian principles.Would be nice to hear more from Mr Doe.
*****************
There are at least two types of libertarians - the genuine and the opportunistic.
The genuine Libertarian believes in individual rights (and responsibilities) and the rule of law, but only law limited to the basic functions of government, and never law that contradicts individual rights or exceeds its limited authority.
Opportunistic libertarians appropriate and profess libertarian sentiments, not for the protection and enhancement of individual rights, but to grant superior rights to the artificial persons known as corporations. Since the drive to give the corporation rights exceeding those of humans implicitly degrades individual human rights, and the only way this can be accomplished is by the force of government acting outside is legitimate sphere and contrary to will the people it was formed to protect, this form of libertarianism is a fraud.
Both major parties have been cherry-picking Libertarian ideas for years and couching them in their own ideologies such as "free markets" (which aren't) and "democracy" (which is mob rule). Generally, the Left appropriates the concept of individual rights by requiring the acceptance of socially destructive agendas through government force, while the Right seeks to raise the "rights" of the corporation above those of the person, thereby frequently violating the people's health, livelihood, and locale, ultimately employing government force that was never expressly granted to achieve such ends.
People have rights, not corporations. Corporations and individuals may enter into contracts, but corporations have no natural rights except what a government grants them. Of course, a corrupt, anti-Libertarian government will willingly grant many rights to the corporation under the color of law.
People have rights, not groups or even majorities of people. Fundamentally, the majority has no right to modify, grant, or remove the rights of the individual. A system that allows this is being manipulated by power-hungry men for their own gain, using the tyranny of the majority as their prime tool of social manipulation.
One who speaks and acts towards restoring, protecting, and enhancing responsible individual rights with limited government is a de facto Libertarian. Anyone who works to expand the rights of the corporation and the simultaneous misuse of government power to grant, assure, and extend those rights is not a Libertarian, though they may noisily claim otherwise and attempt to support their claims with concepts that do not apply.
Both government and the corporation are useful, even necessary tools of human security and progress. America was explicitly founded upon the principles of limited government. What is not generally known, however, is that the corporation was originally likewise strictly limited at this country's founding. The history of the last couple of centuries is one of a constant expansion of government and corporate power, the fight for dominance and/or a suitable partnership between these two, and the continuous marginalization of the individual. The true Libertarian does not reject either government or the corporation per se, only their artificial size and power in relation to the individual and, by these advantages, their propensity to destroy the individual's rights and thereby his freedom.
Max Rabbitz
(6/24/01; 09:48:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 56731)
Steve H: My best guess
http://216.46.231.211/credit.htm
Derivatives and greed. Derivatives removed the apparent risk from paper IOU's and placed the burden on the financial system in general. No reserve requirements are needed when you have "insurance" and risk is diluted. Money market paper is still seen by most as the equivalent of cash although it is in reality as risky as the IOU's it is based on. I try to read and follow Doug Noland's "Credit Bubble Bulletin" each Friday. The deliberate lack of regulation of derivatives by the authorities was I believe politically motivated by those who wished a bubble economy for personal and political gain. Many who should have known better turned a blind eye. Greed of course is an essential part of the confidence game and we had a pro in the higgest office for too many years.
Belgian
(6/24/01; 08:20:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 56730)
@ Netking
Very sharp ost, Sir Silver !
The Hunt bros did what has to be done today. If Gold and Silver can't adjust "progressively" to PD (ough), it has to be done the violent way. Up until now, it seems the only way (violence) tat appeals to savers/hoaders or should we call them sunday-speculators. A/FOA/ORO wish/predict, it will be different this time ? Re-Standardization one way or another. Am afraid it wan't last ?
POG x 25 (34$ >850$)('70>'81) wasn't in short supply or shorted at all. And the Gold blasters didn't receive a name as did silver. Ignorant (still am), I followed the guides and bought my share of physical in the midst of the run.
It will happen to this generation in probably exactly the same way. With one small but very important difference : GATA will keep on commenting as to the Why and How it happened this time. If the 5.000 / 15.000 tonnes CB/BB is providing substance for additionnal drama >>> it might be different. The "Default" of Magnitude, caused by a very old hoarding stuff. If "they" can get away with only minor damage or confidence loss >>> w'll soon be back to business as usual. Stupid reality.
This rises the question about the goldproducers helping their co-actors ? Will goldproducers and central banks keep hedge-scratching each other's back ? Today it is explained as a win/win thing. Tomorrow it will be a loose/loose or win/loose thing ?
Is it realy true that gold producers justify their hedging to please the CBs in optimizing their Gold reserves and avoiding rightout sale of the whole stash ? This was a very weard statement from B.G.(AU). But touching nevertheless.
CBs the friend of the goldproducers ? Howhoowwwww
Nice weather here and heading for some gardening whilst reflecting some more. Thanks Netking.
turbohawg
(6/24/01; 08:08:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 56729)
Horowitz: The Democrats' War Against Energy and Freedom
http://frontpagemag.com/horowitzsnotepad/2001/hn06-07-01.htm
...
For more than thirty years, the American left -- the Democratic Party, the environmental zealots, and their media fellow travelers -- have been at war with energy producers in America. They have taken for granted the freedom that energy provides, and they have waged a war on those who make it possible.
The left has agitated and the Democrats have regulated and with the aid of the media they have spread environmental panic -- and won. They have ensured that for 20 years no large petroleum refineries have been built in America. They have launched alarmist attacks on the nuclear power industry and virtually throttled it at birth. They have encouraged unwarranted fears about magnetic fields and made construction of new power lines almost impossible. They have inspired junk-science hysterics and limited the building of pipelines that deliver natural gas. In the name of a slip of arctic wasteland the size of the Dallas airport (in a state that is twice the size of Texas) they have blocked the development of Alaskan oil, which would provide consumers with the equivalent of 20 years of imports from Saudi Arabia. For thirty years, the Democrats and the American left have choked off America's energy, and with it a significant slice of Americans’ freedom.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost. In California, which leads the nation in government regulation and environmental extremism, energy supplies are insufficient to meet exploding demand; prices are spiking, energy-freedoms are shrinking, and a crisis is at hand.
The Democrats’ response? Continue the war.
...
SteveH
(6/24/01; 07:34:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 56728)
Enabler(s)?
Tell us. What single or series of chess moves allowed the GSE's and MMF's (Fannies and Money Market Funds) to become net credit creators such that the credit bubble is where it is at today? What caused this or allowed this to happen. Let's nail this down folks. If somone knows the answer, can you also tell us who caused it and what they stood to gain by it? Why has it gotten out of control and why are the normal checks and balances apparently not working?
From most graphs I have seen the date it occured was the early 1990's. Now, that isn't to say that the enabler was there (in place) before that, but there must be a simple answer to what enabled the great credit bubble of the late 20th/early 21st century. Was it just greed or is their a master plan? Guesses or answers please.
Belgian
(06/24/01; 05:44:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 56727)
About savers and Gold
ORO/Old Yeller/Kasriel:
There are many different profiles for the world's savers and savings. Very difficult to generalize !
The only species of Savers/Hoarders, I'm interested in, at present, are the ones that are qualified for Physical Gold "HOLDING". In contrast with Savers/Savings from an economic point of vieuw >> delayed consumption.
Savings with the purpose of having the bulk transferred to the next generation (children-grandchildren). Whatever the form of it might be : cash-bonds-stock-real estate. (except GOLD)
This type of modale saver lost touch with the harsch reality of Permanent Depreciation + Taxation ! They don't realize what is happening and will increase to happen.
It is sad, very sad that they will learn it the "hard" way.
Again, I blame it on the Speculative euphoria of the past 10/20 years. And there are still quite a lot of analysts and Wave/Cycle connaisseurs, who do believe that we are on the verge of a global expansive BOOM (kaboom) ?
Who am I to argument that they are wrong ?
Isn't this "THE QUESTION" that is taking us into the ban of Gold ? Is the present valuation of Gold telling us that w've only a blip in the ongoing expansion ? Or are we facing the kind of road-end that will inspire "THE" drastical Change ? Kondratieff Winter ! ?
What is the importance of non-savers (credit accumulators) against the genuine types of savers (savings) ?
How will this dis-balance work out for expansion/contraction to the economic activity WORLDWIDE !?
Very, very, very difficult to prognosticate . L - V - U shaped happening without time indications filled in.
At what point will the Gold-Reflex re-appear ? For the individual and groups (Funds) as well.
Permanent Depreciation and Taxation catastrophy are well hidden by strong purchasing power. A paradox (seemingly contradiction). My explanation how this paradox is made possible, lays in the use of that strange word "collectivity" ! Permanent Stealth Intervention.
As old as Methusalem but gaining exorbitant proportions : A very strong TREND and as all trends do >>> gain momentum, explode and die.
Are we waiting for Godot (the man that never came) ?
If we aren't, than we must come up with describing what and how it might explode. Answer : an Accident. A Fatal Accident of magnitude...tidal wave ...tsunami...roque wave etc...
We are constantly analysing why this accident can still be avoided and curbed. We constantly over-estimate the magnitude of the past accidents, whilst holding gold.
The savers have no notion of any accidents and firmly believe there will be none. That's why Gold is totally dispensable in their minds.
OK fair enough. Let's induce an accidental scenary with an explosive POG of magnitude. How much does this costs ?
1.000 tonnes of gold = 10 Billion of $/€/Y and something.
10 Billion to organize a world fire. 10 billion to organize a dramatic change in harts and souls. One million individuals or one thousand discrete riches (Powell or other)on this tiny globe, can decide on a change of course (for the better ?).
At 6% return a year it takes 11 years before your doubled liquid assets will encounter the question of purchasing strenght. 1.000 tonnes in the fists will surely do much, much better at the finale, from whatever standpoint !
Netking
(06/24/01; 04:26:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 56726)
Silver - Maniplulation, the Hunt brothers, Comex & the future
For the silver bugs;
Silver dollars in the 1950s and '60s, when, due to a lack of inflation, could be acquired for only a little over a dollar. It was understood by all that these silver dollars were money - similar to the silver dimes, quarters, and halfs - all of which were used to buy goods and services just like paper currency.
During Lyndon Johnson's presidency, silver was removed from most U.S. coinage as the federal government began to develop far more inflationary policies (i.e., the days of "guns and butter"). By the early 1970s, silver (which the government said had been "demonetized"), began to rise in price along with gold, platinum, oil, inflation, and U.S. interest rates - ultimately rising 2500% by 1980 (i.e., from about $2 to $52/ounce).
Wall Street, the government, and conventional wisdom later attributed the rise to "market manipulation" (or cornering) by Texas oil billionaire Bunker Hunt and his brother Herbert, but this was not true. The Hunts did take very large positions in silver (i.e., at least one hundred million ounces) because the price was cheap and the inflation-induced upside potential was huge. They bought most of their silver under $10 per ounce and all of it under $15.
These purchases of an underpriced commodity were not unlike the very large purchases of silver (or silver shares) over the past year or two by Warren Buffett, George Soros and Bill Gates - who, like the Hunts in the '70s, recognize a very undervalued commodity in a sea of very overvalued investments.
In the late '70s speculators jumped into the silver market and gave the metal its final run to $52. The ultimate collapse of silver from this overpriced pinnacle was blamed on the Hunt brothers by Washington and Wall Street. But that was as dishonest as the non-stop economic/financial lies that come out of Washington and Wall Street today, and the manipulation by financial officials was as blatant then as it is today in financial markets.
The Comex and the CFTC (Commodities Futures Trading Commission) changed the silver trading rules (i.e., they raised the margin requirements to 100%; they refused to let the Hunts take delivery of their silver; and they allowed only futures sell orders, not buy orders). Of course the market could do nothing but collapse. But first (before changing the rules) a number of the board members of the Comex and the CFTC shorted massive quantities of silver. They made billions in the greatest financial manipulation in history - up until that time and blamed the Hunt brothers for the collapse of silver. [ED. NOTE: Today's stock and financial market manipulations are even larger and more blatant.]
Over the past 20 years, silver has given up most of its 1970s gains and has retreated to the $5 range (where it has been building a huge base for several years) and where it is trading today (in inflation-adjusted terms) at its lowest level in almost 100 years. It is today (i.e., $4.92 at this writing) the most undervalued investment vehicle in the world, a fact that has not been overlooked by Buffett, Soros, Gates and other large value conscious investors.
Today, the fundamental factors in the silver market are very similar to, but even more extreme than in the early 1970s. Industrial, consumer, and jewelry demand for silver are rising all over the world even as production is declining. The greatest supply/demand shortfall in history now exists - even greater than the one the Hunts spotted in the early '70s, which, along with sharply rising inflation, helped to trigger the 25-fold rise during that decade.
A similar confluence of factors: rising global inflation and interest rates; rising oil and commodity prices; severe silver shortages; and huge political instability in the Middle East all bode very well today for this long overlooked investment vehicle. And as long-time precious metals investors know, silver is by far the most volatile and potentially profitable of all the precious metals (i.e., when it moves, it can literally double overnight)stay posted . . . .
Belgian
(06/24/01; 04:19:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 56725)
Sacrificed Gold
R Powell (#56710): POG breaking the 350$ zone "IS" the radical change ! Present mine valuations have already accounted this 300+$ POG more or less. TA suggests that mineprices should retreat and find some breath in lower prices. It is significant that no selling appears to surface. Maybe, this is an explosive sign ? A sudden (and unexpected), decline in XAU, should indicate that "they" found another (last minute) solution (avoidance-retardation)for "the mess". We are not leading and have to follow humbly.
The 350$ figure has very little to do with the WA'99 spike.
It is a pure super confluence point for a heavy load of ST+LT - TA indicators. T (of TA) not only for Technical but much more Psychological and Practical reasons. Breaking (1) 314$ and (2) 352$ (Fibonacci) means that the decline from 414$ ('96) to 253 ('99) has definitely been broken in the masses's minds and they change their attitude/perceptions/acts, accordingly. Than we are in (pseudo) uncharted territory with not to define price-targets at present. We have to see how this ascend pattern develops. But this are no guarantees for what you suggested on Funds buy orders. The Gold scepticism will and the stealth (almost perfide) gold-accumulation will result in hesitant participation (unbelief) and end in a swift, violent and short spike of massive buying (an end stage).
That's how I see it now. Coming spectacular events might change all this. But the syndicate hates "spectacle" at the wrong moments. Kind of psychological warfare.
5.000 >> 15.000 tonnes short : cfr. Auspec's last post.
Do we have enough imagination as to quess on all the possibilities that the short actors, have at their disposal ? I don't thingk so. For instance : does of the books physical reserves exist ? Will the South African Government act as a buffer to legalize the oxygenation ? etc..etc..
Mining management is as strong as their flexibility to adapt goldproduction (supply) to POG !
The higher POG >>> the lower supply !! Ore grades-Reserves-Demand decline. Explanation when interest.
Put this in the context of urgent [ ? ] need for physical Gold ! What is your first conclusion ? Kind of catch 22, isn't it ?
Invisible Hand and Barry Riley ( FT ): I've that nasty habit of reacting with kind posting on each form of Gold scepticism with very easy to understand and sound arguments, Pro Gold.
It doesn't suffice to be a Goldadvocate (in progress), but some Gold-Activism must be on the order of the day for all of us. No standard writings but masses of individual Gold - Defenses ! (t'is toch waar hé)
BTW, how is Jessica Cross going ? Is she left alone ?
Hurraah, a Chapman-client discovered the 1 Kilo Physical Gold thing. 1 million savers in the $/€ zone with 1/2 million $/€ assets in stocks, bonds, cash >> having an average yearly return of 6% ( 30.000 $/€ ) >> buying 1 Kilo of shiny yellow ( 10.000 $/€ )this year (and next) >>> is 1.000 tonnes (1 million x 1 Kg) floeps, oeps, up and away !
IS THAT SUCH AN UNREALISTIC THING TO SUGGEST AND TO EXECUTE ???????
Or is everyone convinced that there are not 1 million individuals to be found with 1/2 million $/€ within a population of +/- 500 million US/Europeans ? Or do we count on the Japanse Mega Savers to do the Jipangu trick ?
Savers of the world : Do you want to be depreciated permanently and what is left, been taxed away ?????
Grrrrrauuuhhhshhhhhh....
(sorry)
Black Blade
(06/24/01; 00:51:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 56724)
Stephen Leeb and Gold
http://www.tbpnewsletter.com/tbp/tbp.asp?sec=sectors
Snippit:
Gold Stocks--Commodity producers generally do well when their commodities do well, and vice versa. But when commodity producers rally in the face of questionable demand for their commodities, you have to ask whether the market is trying to tell you something about the future of those commodity prices. Consider gold stocks. They have massively outperformed the S&P Industrials by double digits year-to-date. But gold itself, despite a short covering rally in May, has done little to justify that move. So the market must be expecting something more from gold.
Black Blade: Sounds reasonable to me. He says that the Gold market should be watched. In other words, gold's day may be at hand.
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