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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/24/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
JMB
(08/24/00; 23:58:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 35495)
Peter Asher
Are you saying that ARISTOTLE was not rude to GOLDHUNTER? ARISTOTLE knows perfectly well what he's doing, it's part of his act.
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 23:48:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 35494)
Question for All
Many of us seem to have the same problem:
Why are typos invisable in the posting box and so blatently obvious when on the board????
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 23:46:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 35493)
Spelling math
Subtract l Add r, = total lack of courtesy
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 23:42:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 35492)
JMB (08/24/00; 23:28:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 35490)
There are also "three teeny-weenie little problems with you post. 1) your comments regarding Aristotle are offensive (and not based the least bit on data.) 2) You have violated the rules sufficiently to get bounced. 3) the monoploly on intelligence is held by many of us on the Forum and even several individuals who are not on it. Other than your totall lack of coutesy you appear pretty intelligent youself.
From the outset Michael has created a Format for dignified discourse. It seems some folks just keep having a problem with that.
But, (and this is to Gandalf's post also) USA gold does not receive Federal funding! It's a private party, guy: Love it or leave it
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 23:29:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 35491)
SHIFTY (08/24/00; 23:07:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 35488)
We're fine out in the Coast Range. Not much grassland and the 'understory' is mostly ferns. Almost no rain the last two months but the river and waterfall are fully functional. We drove through some of Ranier National Forest after we left Gandalf on our visit to Bavaria in America, lush and green everywhere.
If this is truly a Global warming and draught paradigm, then the Pac NW is going to be the best Property investment around!
JMB
(08/24/00; 23:28:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 35490)
AllanC
Mr.C, dealing with you is very difficult. So you want me to argue my case and at the same time answer some questions. My case, simply put, is that GOLDHUNTER presented an excellent post and ARISTOTLE was unnecessarily rude to him. You have stated that "GOLDHUNTER posed a fair question" yet you said nothing about ARISTOTLE'S rudeness...well I will. ARISTOTLE is brilliant, no doubt about it. There are just three teenie little problems with him as a teacher...He thinks he has a monoply on all worldly economic wisdom, he is insecure (intellectually) and he is an anus. Other than that, he's great. I look forward to his next post...I just hope it's not to me.
Let's talk about ORO...he's top shelf...the best...always a good read.
I'm not going to get into FOA/ANOTHER because I don't want the Jim Jones cool-aid crowd chasing me down the street. I always look forward to his/their posts (I sure wish that I could understand them).
Your question had to do with a big stopper in London getting delivery without stressing the market. The time will come, hopefully tomorrow, that many gold investors/speculators will take delivery and precipitate a short squeeze. It might be in London. Why not? Would you settle for a 5-6x over subscription of the Brit's 25 tons next month? Sure you would...it just might happen. In the mean time, my measly 100 oz contract will act as a hedge of sorts. Many of us small-timers are still accumulating physical and we are afraid that a run up of gold stocks will not provide a large enough profit to fill out our desired physical position. FOA/ANOTHER are correct in saying (if I understand this point) that securities are really a silly thing to hold all the way to the top because the FRN's you get will be worthless...and besides that, who in their right mind will exchange gold for worthless paper? Well, not exactly worthless, the Russians recently used their fiat to stop leaks in their roofs. I have been taught that a prudent person should have 10-15% of their wealth in physical. It's insurance.
Now I have a question for you, sir. Why should goods be priced in dollars or pounds or whatever? Why not price goods in terms of gold? If there is a shortage of gold, lets say an increase in the world's population and a stagnant supply of gold, the value will rise. Simple enough I think, instead of bread costing "two pinches" it'll only cost "one pinch". We have to work out the credit system later...I will definitely need your help. I do feel strongly about one point...the credit system must remain separate from the gold system. When the credit guys go bust it will not take down the gold guys. Now the really BIG question: Will RossL let me stay?
SHIFTY
(08/24/00; 23:19:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 35489)
Gandalf the White
Does this mean we could get the Presidential seal of approval if we learn to type in other languages so the Forum is Politically Correct?
$hifty
SHIFTY
(08/24/00; 23:07:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 35488)
Peter Asher
I got an alert from kitco of a $4.00 move.I was hoping to see a $4.00 rise, so I checked it out and saw the drop. I under stand that the alert is computer generated. Just was not sure if it was a glitch. I have noticed the problems the last few days.
How are things out your way in regards to the fire's?
Gandalf the White
(08/24/00; 22:56:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 35487)
This explains everything !
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Aboard Air Force One)
___________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release August 11, 2000
EXECUTIVE ORDER 13166
- - - - - - -
IMPROVING ACCESS TO SERVICES FOR
PERSONS WITH LIMITED ENGLISH PROFICIENCY (LEP)
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and to improve access to federally conducted and federally assisted programs and activities for persons who, as a result of national origin, are limited in their English proficiency (LEP), it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Goals.
<SNIP>
Sec. 5. Judicial Review.
This order is intended only to improve the internal management of the executive branch and does not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or equity by a party against the United States, its agencies, its officers or employees, or any person.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
*****
PETER -- did you not read the Sec, 5 !!
This is so that LEP voters can speak to the President as it is he that can not understand them! AND the majority of voters can not understand the President either.
<;-)
ET
(08/24/00; 22:52:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 35486)
Banking
Friday August 18 7:34 PM ET
Grenada Gov't Takes Over Bank
By RICHARD SIMON, Associated Press Writer
ST. GEORGE'S, Grenada (AP) - Grenada's government has
taken over operations of First International Bank, an offshore
bank that Grenadian officials say offered investors returns up
to 250 percent and was capitalized on a single ruby.
The Caribbean nation's Ministry of Finance said in a
statement that the government took over the operations
Thursday, with former Accountant General Garvey Louison
appointed to watch operations.
Finance Minister Anthony Boatswain, in a radio interview
Friday on the Grenada Broadcasting Network, said he knew
the bank was experiencing a ``shortage of funds,'' but he did
not say how it would affect investors.
Ministry officials could not be reached Friday to give more details.
Government spokeswoman Nancy McGuire said recently that the government was
investigating the bank in coordination with the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI.
Local offshore industry regulator Michael Creft said the investigation included the
possibility of money laundering.
A bank employee who answered the telephone Friday said bank owner Van A. Brink had
not been at the bank ``for some time,'' and said no other officials were available to
comment.
Before coming to Grenada, bank owner Brink lived in Oregon as Gilbert Allen Ziegler
until he declared bankruptcy in 1994, bought a Grenada passport and changed his name,
Creft said.
The bank, licensed in 1998, was capitalized on the strength of a jeweler's $20 million
appraisal of one ruby, Creft said.
The bank's reported gross income last year of $26 billion is the same as the revenue
reported by the fifth-largest U.S. bank, Bank One Corp. (NYSE:ONE - news) of Chicago.
Creft said he didn't know if the bank's claim was true.
Creft said First International Bank had made good on promises to pay up to 250 percent
interest, but he didn't know how the bank did it.
Every month, First International Bank paid for hundreds of Americans to come to the
island and wooed them at upscale beach resorts with lectures on the evils of U.S. taxation,
Creft said. Prospects are assured their money is insured by the International Deposit
Indemnity Corp. - a small private operation that was closed down by regulators in the tiny
island of Nevis, was again shut down in Dominica and now operates here.
Brink, in an interview with the Grenada Broadcasting Network last year, said his bank was
``doing legitimate business'' and ``acting lawfully.''
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 22:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 35485)
SHIFTY (8/24/2000; 22:35:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35482)
Whenever the chart has a vertical up or down move with those dashes staggered left and right, it's a computer glitch.
Peter Asher
(08/24/00; 22:40:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 35484)
If this was a joke it would be hilarious!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20000824_xnjdo_clinton_ma.shtml
Clinton mandates
multilingual America
Executive order says programs
must be offered in foreign languages
By Jon E. Dougherty
© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com
A new Executive Order signed by
President Clinton, requiring federal
agencies to provide "programs and
activities normally provided in English" to
non-English-speaking residents, will
effectively elevate the inability to speak
English as "a protected civil right," say
critics.
The order, signed Aug. 11 while Clinton
was in Los Angeles preparing to attend the
Democratic National Convention, is listed
as EO 13166, and was entered into the
Federal Register Aug. 16.
Titled, "Improving Access to Services For
Persons With Limited English Proficiency,"
the order calls on the federal government
"to improve access to federally conducted
and federally assisted programs and
activities for persons who, as a result of
national origin, are limited in their English
proficiency (LEP)." -----
---- Any agency not complying with the order
would be found in violation of title VI of
the Civil Rights Act of 1964 -- that is, of
discriminating on the "basis of national
origin." -----
"The order, as interpreted by the Office of
Civil Rights in the Department of Justice,
requires every recipient of federal funds,
including 'a federally assisted zoo or
theater ... to take reasonable steps to
provide meaningful opportunities for
access' by Limited English Proficient
individuals," Boulet said. "What might
these reasonable steps consist of?" ----
----Boulet compared the new order, and Asst.
Attorney General Lee's definition of what it
means, to the effects on law and society
caused by the Americans With Disabilities
Act.
(The Punch Line) >>> Essentially, Boulet said, "the order makes
the inability to speak English a protected
civil right."
"[T]he failure to address language barriers
may not be simply an oversight, but rather
may be attributable, at least in part, to
invidious discrimination on the basis of
national origin and race. While there is not
always a direct relationship between an
individual's language and national origin,
often language does serve as an identifier
of national origin ...
"A federal aid recipient's failure to assure
that people who are not proficient in
English can effectively participate in and
benefit from programs and activities may
constitute national origin discrimination
prohibited by Title VI."
Boulet said just one non-English-speaking
person who enters a business may be
enough to trigger a Justice Department
response.
"Programs that serve a few or even one
LEP person are still subject to the Title VI
obligation to take reasonable steps to
provide meaningful opportunities for
access," he said.
Black Blade
(8/24/2000; 22:37:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 35483)
Can You Say Petroleum Squeeze and Inflation? I Knew You Could!
Oil price spike no cure for non-OPEC supply collapse
arius Snieckus
OGJ Online
STAVANGER—Soaring oil prices may have come too late to avert both a collapse in oil supply growth from countries outside the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and a new rig market famine next year, according to Petrodata Research, the forecasting arm of industry data analysts OneOffshore Inc. Though oil companies have been flush with cash for the last year, this new money is being spent not on drilling wells but rather on "defending their balance sheets, buying back shares, and competing with high growth technology stocks," said Petrodata analyst Maarten van Mourik at the Offshore Northern Seas (ONS) 2000 conference in Stavanger yesterday. "Upstream activity has been in the doldrums and is only now picking up," Van Mourik added. "That slow recovery may not have a positive impact on non-OPEC oil supply in the immediate future. "The current state of the market and "underlying pressures" are signaling a repeat if the 1995-98 cycle, in Van Mourik's opinion, which ended in the oil price crash and pan-industry recession. "The portfolio of new developments has dried up so much that it is hard to project increases in non-OPEC oil supply for 2001," he suggested, resulting in the burden of supply having to be shouldered by OPEC. As well as its negative influence on oil supply, the spending drop over the last 2 years is also hitting the deepwater rig markets, states Van Mourik. He believes oil company plans for fast-tracking new frontier field developments will likely be "too optimistic" in the light of an imminent rig market squeeze. "Poor day rates have made contractors wary of committing to further building of new rigs," he said. "As a result, we predict that the available fleet will be insufficient again shortly to cope with increasing demand and develop the potential of all those deepwater fields. "The ultradeepwater segment, 5,000 ft water depths and beyond, is the leading indicator here, and that segment is already in physical shortage," Van Mourik added.
Black Blade: As I have previously stated, the rig counts are low, very few have been constructed over the last several years, and a extremely sever oil and gas squeeze is in the works. BTW, today several analysts downgraded the oil and gas sector again. These budding rocket scientists have gotten it wrong for well over a year, so as contrary barometers, it is very likely that oil and gas shares along with service and driller stocks are again work a look. With rising petroleum prices, the people will have to acknowledge that the Government inflation numbers are bogus.
SHIFTY
(8/24/2000; 22:35:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35482)
(No Subject)
Kitco chart, strange!
schippi
(8/24/2000; 22:35:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 35481)
Gold Indexes moving Up
http://www.SelectSectors.com/gldindx.gif
XAU, HUI, GOX, FSAGX 3 month chart
Black Blade
(8/24/2000; 21:44:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 35480)
Pd Shortage is Getting Critical in Spite of NYMEX Manipulation.
BBC MONITORING INTERNATIONAL REPORTS: RUSSIA CASHES IN ON WORLD SHORTAGE OF PALLADIUM
BBC Monitoring Service - United Kingdom, Aug 24, 2000, 343 words
Text of report in English by Russian news agency Interfax
Moscow, 24th August: Russia produced 90.2 tonnes of palladium in 1999, according to UBS Warburg, a finance company, and could raise output 6.9 per cent to 96.4 tonnes this year. The company's analysts are guided by estimated data on sales of Russian palladium on the market and data on procurements from the biggest consumers of the metal. In Russia, data about production and exports of platinum-group metals are classified. Accordingly, Interfax has been unable to obtain comments by metals giant Norilsk Nickel, which produces about 70 per cent of the world's palladium. But Yuriy Kotlyar, chairman of Norilsk Nickel's board of directors, did tell Interfax that there was a market deficit of "hundreds of tonnes of palladium, so anything we do to increase supply will be a drop in the ocean.
Black Blade: That's true. It is a spit in the ocean.
But you should be asking the state, not Norilsk Nickel. I cannot understand why the state does not sell its own metal with trends this good," Kotlyar said. Russia's three holders of palladium - Norilsk Nickel, the Gokhran or state repository and the Central Bank - all export the metal via the state-owned Almazyuvelireksport company. As reported, Norilsk Nickel last year increased sales of platinum-group metals or PGMs, by 31.7 per cent and earned more than 1bn dollars in the process. Russia's total nonferrous sales last year came to 1,865m dollars. Russia controls about 70 per cent of the world palladium market (UBS Warburg has said 68 per cent in 1999). It also supplies a fifth of the world's platinum and a large amount of its rhodium. Palladium is still riding high at about 730 dollars per troy ounce, although it hit a 12-year high of 859 dollars at the beginning of August. Prices are thought to have been driven up by secrecy over how much palladium Russia produces and when it will start exporting and by speculation. Norilsk Nickel has said it intends to increase PGM production in the years to come as it puts more new reserves on stream, processes more disseminated ores and recovers more metal from waste. The company in 2001 plans to start test-mining a new PGM deposit, MS-Gorizont, which Norilsk Nickel says is rich with a PGM content of up to 10 grams or higher per tonne of ore.
Black Blade: Because they already sold all that was not stolen. It is gone! For the last decade Russia needed hard currency and is deeply in debt (remember the defaulted Russian bonds?). The stockpiles were raided along with anything else of value.
There is also a rumor that the US strategic Pd reserve of 900,000 ounces are to be put up for sale. Some people are apparently very scared. Scared enough to raid the US strategic metals reserves of the US Defense Dept. Never-the-less, traders and the NYMEX have pushed the Pd price to artificially low levels. The smart producers will hold back Pd and sell via auction with a high floor price well above the paltry NYMEX valuation.
AllanC
(8/24/2000; 21:20:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 35479)
JMB
Mr JMB, I'll try again.
I wouldn't dwell too much on my earlier remark. Don't take offense as it's a figure of speech and the tone of your first post definitely painted that picture. But it seems you're at it again this time...(no smirk intended)
With the parody by Mr NTEOTWAWKI, were you implying that my writing style resembled Mr Another's? If so I'm flattered, thank you...So I take it I'm in a better frame of mind to continue this discourse.
So you believe in gold. Well I'm happy to have you on board. Will the end of the world come in a great apocalypse? No...and I don't hope for that. I don't even think about it much. Life will go on. And I believe a futures market serves a purpose since storage is a big factor. You see most commodities being bulky are stored for consumption. Paper contracts are therefore useful. But gold in a sense should be "consumed for storage". As money it should not be fractionalized and commoditized, simple. Most of us are hoping to see a free physical gold market, not an economic catastrophe as you think we do.
But you sir should learn how to argue your case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you basically implied Aristotle was full of... since you knew you could take delivery of your measly 100 ounces.
I put a few arguments back to you and you have sidestepped them. Is there more to say?
HI - HAT
(8/24/2000; 19:23:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 35478)
Markets
Markets, are poised, pensive, and nervous.
Things are not like, what they were. Yes.
JMB
(8/24/2000; 19:17:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 35477)
AllanC
Mr.C are you lurking? Did you do your homework? I'm as fresh as a daisy and ready to learn about all things near and dear to you and yours. BTW, if you don't have a sense of humor or you can't stand a little ribbing...well, what can I say? Other than, take a pill and let's get with it.
I want you to know that I view physical Gold as a form of insurance against a financial catastrophe. I also have automobile insurance. I do not get up every day and hope that I am involved in an automobile accident. Do you see where I'm coming from regarding Gold? Is this attitude allowed on this forum? I sincerely hope that you are not one of these "CRASH and BURN" fellas, if so, don't bother responding, I can get plenty of that at ANOTHER site.
TownCrier
(8/24/2000; 18:08:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35476)
Nice table, Sir Mitchell
The third column (representing prices based on the purchacing power of 1999 dollars) clearly shows that gold is currently at the best bargain for buyers since way back in 1972.
Meanwhile, the fourth column (representing the equivalent prices in terms of the the 1970 dollar which was itself officially defined as one-thirtyfifth ounce of gold) clearly shows that despite the massive mining effort and flood of derivatives since that time, the "dearness" of gold has still managed to almost double; otherwise, we must all admit, the price of an ounce today as represented in "1970 dollars" would still be $35. It isn't. One ounce as of 1999 is as dear as 63.14 of those "gold-backed" dollars, or put another way, despite production and derivatives, one ounce today is as dear as 1.8 ounces then. All things considered, that's not bad performance for an item that many are content to view as a neutral "insurance" asset.
Now just imagine how much dearer an ounce might become in the event of a derivatives bust...
(I have used the term "dear" in deference to the recent disputes on the meaning of "price" and of "value". To say "dearness" is my attempt at splitting the middle so that the message reaches both sides of this debate.)
Hill Billy Mitchell
(8/24/2000; 17:29:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 35475)
Avg. annual POG nominal price vs 1999 dollars vs 1970 dollars
POG POG POG
Nominal in 1999 in 1970
Year Price Dollars Dollars
1970 35.94 158.75 35.94
1971 40.80 170.18 38.53
1972 58.16 232.59 52.66
1973 97.32 376.76 85.29
1974 159.26 580.57 131.44
1975 161.02 528.81 119.72
1976 124.84 375.79 85.08
1977 147.71 420.26 95.14
1978 193.22 516.19 116.86
1979 306.68 761.43 172.38
1980 612.56 1,364.05 308.79
1981 460.03 902.53 204.30
1982 375.67 668.20 151.28
1983 424.35 710.70 160.91
1984 360.48 585.02 132.44
1985 317.26 493.66 111.77
1986 367.66 552.19 125.00
1987 446.46 658.04 148.98
1988 436.94 621.63 140.74
1989 381.44 521.31 118.02
1990 383.51 500.14 113.21
1991 362.11 448.04 101.43
1992 343.82 408.25 92.42
1993 359.77 414.74 93.90
1994 384.00 429.77 97.31
1995 384.17 419.09 94.89
1996 387.77 412.70 93.41
1997 330.98 342.00 77.42
1998 294.24 298.95 67.68
1999 278.88 278.88 63.14
Hill Billy Mitchell
(8/24/2000; 17:26:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35474)
Avg. Annual POG Price comparisons Nominal vs constant dollars
POG POG POG
Nominal in 1999 in 1970
Year Price Dollars Dollars
1970 35.94 158.75 35.94
1971 40.80 170.18 38.53
1972 58.16 232.59 52.66
1973 97.32 376.76 85.29
1974 159.26 580.57 131.44
1975 161.02 528.81 119.72
1976 124.84 375.79 85.08
1977 147.71 420.26 95.14
1978 193.22 516.19 116.86
1979 306.68 761.43 172.38
1980 612.56 1,364.05 308.79
1981 460.03 902.53 204.30
1982 375.67 668.20 151.28
1983 424.35 710.70 160.91
1984 360.48 585.02 132.44
1985 317.26 493.66 111.77
1986 367.66 552.19 125.00
1987 446.46 658.04 148.98
1988 436.94 621.63 140.74
1989 381.44 521.31 118.02
1990 383.51 500.14 113.21
1991 362.11 448.04 101.43
1992 343.82 408.25 92.42
1993 359.77 414.74 93.90
1994 384.00 429.77 97.31
1995 384.17 419.09 94.89
1996 387.77 412.70 93.41
1997 330.98 342.00 77.42
1998 294.24 298.95 67.68
1999 278.88 278.88 63.14
TownCrier
(8/24/2000; 17:01:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 35473)
Our "Central Banking Insider" shows abundant global inflation pressures
http://www.usagold.com/centralbank/current.html
Pesky currency devaluations, too, whereby exporting interests benefit, but citizens suffer.
Click the link provided to access the latest August update now that July's report has been archived.
Those warning of inflationary pressures in this report include:
UK
Czech Republic
Ireland
Fiji
Mexico
Australia
and
Japan (That is, if the zero rate policy were to be maintained. Masaru Hayami, the governor of the Bank of Japan, warned "An ultra-loose monetary policy will eventually have a major impact on the economy and prices," he said. "That increases the risk that even bigger interest rate adjustments will be necessary.I know from experience.")
Currency devaluations include Bangladesh's taka being officially taken lower 6% by the central bank, and Zimbabwe cutting its own dollar by 24%. Ouch. That's gotta hurt...
Chris Powell
(8/24/2000; 16:48:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35472)
GATA asks CFTC to investigate gold market
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/515?
Here's the text of a letter from GATA
member and consultant Ethan B. Stroud,
a former justice and treasury department
lawyer now in practice in Dallas, to
the Commodity Futures Trading Commission:
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/515?
To subscribe to GATA's dispatches
by email and get them immediately so
you don't have to go look for them,
send an email to:
gata-subscribe@eGroups.com
JMB
(8/24/2000; 15:27:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 35471)
AllanC
You still have not "specifically" enumerated the instances where I "smirked". I <smile> or I >frown<
I don't smirk...if I slipped and let out a little smirk, I want to know about it. This is, after all, USAGold not Kitco.
I think we got off on the wrong foot Mr.C. Let's start over. I have a personal hygiene matter to take of and then I must make the 'rounds'. While I'm gone would you please go to (brace yourself) Kitco and look up a very amusing post by NTEOTWAWKI Aug. 11, 2000 @ 11:22...after reading NTEO-etc's post I'm sure you will be in the correct frame of mind to carry on a worthwhile conversation.
BTW, I'll bet I'm as big a Goldbug us you and I'd be pleased to show you how Futures (at this point in time) can be very helpful to the Physical Goldbug...but FIRST I want to know about that smirk so I can apologize or scold you for fibbing.
SHIFTY
(8/24/2000; 15:25:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 35470)
CoBra(too)
Hello there CoBra(too) :Sorry I cant help you there. I think you know more about Herbert Hoover than I do. I went to public school and was a bit of a delinquent back than.
:)
$hifty
CoBra(too)
(8/24/2000; 14:45:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 35469)
@CPM - MK
Sir Michael,
please remember my request about potential alternatives of delivery - physical of course :>)) tku - cb2
CoBra(too)
(8/24/2000; 14:38:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35468)
Hello $hifty, I'm back again and know I shouldn't - at least not tonight ...
And as such I would not even try to touch on the eventual outcome of the treaty of Versailles, where France set new european borders (no comment) and the US has been smart or scared enough to pull out in time- a topic for e-mail.
But I'm really more interested on your take on Hoover, followed by FDR and as a non American I've only discovered about 20 y's ago that Herbert Hoover was a geologist, amongst other places in China during boxer wars and later founding the "Zinc Co." in Australia(Rio Tinto Zink -today) - before becoming President in the depression, due to his humanitarian stance during WWI - fascinating.
Is there a good book on the political part of his life - since I've only read his geological "genealogy", which you would recommend? pse let me know - cb2
Hard assets...Easy access
(08/24/00; 14:29:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 35467)
Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.
http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html
The value of gold-in-hand...
From 1933 to 1975 it was illegal for Americans--arguably the free-est people on Earth--to own gold. In the years following President Roosevelt's 1933 gold confiscation, however, there were legislative concessions allowing for the ownership of certain gold coins that have over time come to be recognized generally as the class of gold coinage minted prior to 1933. If you were an American in the 1960's or early 70's, and you wanted to own gold as insurance or an investment, these pre-1933 coins were your only option. So what was the market valuation of gold-in-hand?
On May 31, 1971, Barron's reported that the prior three years had marked a substantial increase in the value of certain gold coins. The cited that the U.S. "Double Eagle" had been selling at a 45% premium over its gold value in May 1968, and by May 1971 that premium had risen to 69% over its gold value. (The gold value at the time was officially set at $35 per ounce in defining the international dollar-convertibility for gold.)
In another example, the German Mark piece in May 1968 was selling for 75% premium, while in May of 1971 it had climbed to sell at a premium of 175% over the official gold value.
At nearly the same time, U.S. News and World Report indicated in its Sept. 25, 1972 issue that while gold bullion had been pegged at $38 per ounce as the official government price, the "free-market price in Europe recently has been nearer $65 or $70."
The moral of the story is to do what you can to keep your gold in hand.
Let Centennial assist you with all of your precious metals needs. It is your decision to do business with Centennial that makes this website possible. Thanks for your support--past, present, and future.
AllanC
(08/24/00; 14:27:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 35466)
Goldhunter's question
JMB
I see from your post the smirk is gone. Very well. Do I really need to defend myself? No.
Sir, my ilk does not necessarily believe in 30K gold "price" now, but perhaps in the future as economic events unfold. It's present "value" may however reflect that. Fact: gold is greatly underpriced. Don't take our present economic stability derived from cheap oil for granted. Look at the economic benefits derived from oil. Is oil not the "king of commodities" in our present economy? Perhaps you are one of those who chases the NASDAQ or other paper and turns a blind eye . Well you are in the wrong forum. RossL put it so well when he stated you are a good example for all of us to see.
These "false messiahs" as you will, have simply opened their minds. You can take it or leave it. If they have gained a faithful following it is because their arguments have been so reasonable and persuasive. They may have been impatient (we're all human here) but they were never overtly rude with people who posed fair questions, and goldhunter's was a fair question. At least that's my view...
But if you are seriously interested in learning about gold and how the futures markets work, I suggest you re-read (and again if necessary) the posts from these learned gentlemen (Another, FOA, Aristotle, Oro). You may benefit from a point of view that's looks deeper into the way things "probably" work.
Question: Look at what London trades "on paper" in one day. Do you know for a certainty if a big player will get his 300 Tons (or what have you?) delivered without stressing the system?
Hard assets...Easy access
(08/24/00; 14:25:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 35465)
Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.
http://www.usagold.com/INFOPACKET.html#anchor1692132
We are pleased to make available to you the recently completed CLIENT MEMORANDUM: "How You Can Survive a Potential Gold Confiscation".
Assembled by George R. Cooper, J.D. and by Michael J. Kosares, this memorandum explains how a gold confiscation might be possible once again --nearly 70 years after the last one occurred in 1933 under President Franklin Roosevelt, along with Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy further acting to prohibit Americans from holding gold abroad under penalties of fines and imprisonment.
Offering a Question & Answer overview with supporting appendices, this memorandum provides to our knowledge the most detailed and comprehensive documentation assembled to date on the subject of gold confiscation in the United States.
We hope this serves as a simple, straightforward presentation of documents and political/economic history that might help you form your own opinion on this matter in which we believe, given the weight of legal precedent as reprinted here, that pre-1933 gold coins offer the most suitable protection (for the acquisition-oriented yet confiscation-minded individual) against a potential government gold confiscation.
This memorandum is available AT NO CHARGE as a .pdf file (Portable Document Format), or for a small fee for the quality bound and printed 50-page document. Click the link given above to learn more.
TownCrier
(08/24/00; 14:10:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 35464)
Market movements
Bridge news said of the overnight trade in Asia following the previous downdraft in both Asian and American markets, "Dealers noted that physical demand from Hong Kong and Taiwan had supported the gold price but the buying had diminished at above $272. ... Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) gold futures extended its losses Thursday following overnight COMEX gold futures price falls, TOCOM dealers told. Relatively stronger yen against U.S. dollar added selling pressure on the TOCOM gold futures, some dealers said.
Speculators have been reluctant to buy gold futures before the planned UK gold auction in September in which the Bank of England will offer to sell another 25 tonnes of gold reserves, they said." *END*
Yesterday's price decline on the COMEX exchange took place within a modest trading volume of 21,456 contracts, with a net increase of 4,006 new outstanding contracts (open interest) ushering in the price drop (3,082 of them for December expiry). Open interest in December gold futures now stands at 80,945 contracts.
For the expiring term, 6,604 August contracts have been tagged for delivery so far this month, with 53 August contracts remaining in open interest as of yesterday's trading.
Bobbo
(08/24/00; 13:08:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 35463)
Gold Wars Update: The Rally Begins
Close over 52.00 XAU will be very bullish as the rally begins.
SHIFTY on:
Refuting the Global Mandarins
Pat be da man....
wolavka
(08/24/00; 13:04:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35462)
Gold
Back up to the magic 277.40 area. Do not be short the next 4 days.
Regarding attempt @ cftc, these people are backed by powers greater than the fed . Good Luck, better to beat them @ their own game.
SHIFTY
(08/24/00; 11:19:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 35461)
(No Subject)
Refuting the Global Mandarins
The Wall Street Journal
Reading "Buchanan Has It Backwards on Globalization" by General William Odom (editorial page, Aug. 11), now adjunct professor at Yale, an idea commends itself: Perhaps the general might want to audit the freshman course in economic history this fall, if there is yet time to sign up.
Prof. Odom writes that all nations surrender their sovereignty when they enter alliances and trade treaties. Nonsense. Sovereignty is retained as long as the nation retains the freedom and power to dissolve the alliance or treaty. NATO is a temporary coalition from which we have the power to withdraw, while the European Union looks to be forever.
"[W]hen the U.S. had fewer limits on its sovereignty it was poorer," writes Prof. Odom. "In the 1930s it had few treaty commitments, having rejected the Versailles Treaty and the League of Nations. Congress even passed the Smoot-Hawley tariffs to keep out foreign trade. And what rewards did all these exercises of sovereignty give the American worker? The worst economic depression of the century followed by the bloodiest war in history."
Let me try to sort out this rag-bag of non sequiturs. The Senate rejected Versailles in 1919. Harding took power in 1921 on a promise to "prosper America first." He cut Wilson's wartime income tax rate of 63% back to 25% and, with Fordney-McCumber, doubled tariff rates. Result: The Roaring Twenties. Growth hit 7% a year, fastest in history; and ten years later Versailles America was producing 42% of the world's manufactures, an all-time record.
As for the Smoot-Hawley myth, Prof. Odom should put in a call to Milton Friedman. When Smoot-Hawley passed, imports were only 4% of GDP; and two-thirds came in free. Perhaps Prof. Odom can explain how a marginal tax hike, on 1.3% of GDP, caused a 46% contraction of the U.S. economy, 25% unemployment, and a wipeout of 85% of stock values?
The cause of the depression was massive credit expansion by the Fed, creating a market bubble that, punctured in 1929, wiped out a third of the U.S. money supply. With America in shock from this loss of blood, a pair of chiropractors named Hoover and Roosevelt prescribed a "cure" of huge tax hikes and sweeping regulations. Smoot and Hawley were scapegoats, lynched by New Deal court historians to cover up FDR's complicity. Their tariff did not even pass until eight months after the 1929 Crash.
As for the bloodiest war in history, it was launched by Adolf Hitler. The wisest decision ever made by the Senate was to refuse to commit American blood and treasure to enforce this Carthaginian peace, imposed on the German people at bayonet-point in violation of Wilson's 14-points and solemn pledges.
On NATO and the U.S. military presence in Europe, the general and I agreed, up to 1989. But with the Cold War over and the Soviet Empire stone cold dead, how is America made safer by an endless commitment to go to war with a nuclear-armed Russia, to defend Bialystok from Belarus?
Bring the troops home from Europe, and we shall be relieved of an economic and military burden, and we can restore our traditional freedom of action to intervene, or not, as we decide; and not to have war imposed upon us because of some 50-year-old tripwire put down by Dean Acheson or John Foster Dulles. Why not let our rich and sassy friends in Europe carry the hod a while? General Eisenhower was no isolationist, yet he pressed JFK to pursue exactly this course as far back as 1961.
Prof. Odom rejoices that countries are lining up to sign on to globalization. Why shouldn't they? To them it means an open door to the greatest market on earth, and U.S. capital pouring into their countries to build new factories to replace plants shutting down across the U.S.
Our merchandise trade deficit is near 5% of GDP; it has crossed the $450 billion mark. We are following faithfully the course pursued by all the great empires of history: consuming more than we produce; selling off our patrimony to finance the good times. Carpe diem remains the road to hell for nations as well as individuals.
Prof. Odom calls me a Jeffersonian agrarian. Has he read my book? My ideas are rooted in the economic nationalism of Washington, Hamilton, the Madison of the Tariff of 1816, Henry Clay, Friedrich List, Lincoln and the Republicans who, from 1865 to 1914, took the U.S. from half of Britain's manufacturing power to more than double her power -- a 50-year period where growth rates averaged 4%, with bursts under McKinley up to 7%. They all put America first.
As Hamilton insisted, U.S. trade policy should be designed to ensure the highest standard of living on earth for the American people, and the economic independence of the nation, so that, if need be, America could stand alone. Only thus could we stay out of Europe's wars.
"Independence Forever?" was Adams's deathbed toast. Men will die for the "ashes of their fathers and the temples of their gods," not for some New World Order created of, by, and for the greedy global mandarins who endlessly lust after America's wealth and power.
Patrick J. Buchanan
McLean, Va.
CoBra(too)
(08/24/00; 10:43:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 35460)
Well, thanks $hifty for Stroud "The LETTER"...
and BTW, German PPI up .7 ... equivalent to 3,4% year over year. Cite low euro, oil and other rising raw materials. Billy the (lame) Duck, meanwhile blames OPEC on potential global recession, due to high POO. Whom else - not the creators of double (credit & market) bubble, no, you've got to find the scapegoat in time. An OPEC spokesman already responded it's the international speculation on futures markets setting the price for (paper-again!) oil.
Interesting paralelle's to TOCOM' NYMEX Pd contracts, FOA's paper gold and now paper oil
- tomorrow, we'll borrow - more silver instead
- say's Butler Ted - and change the money to paper as well until all the shorts - may they roast - in hell - are toast
at the most.
Prost (aka - cheers)cb2
SHIFTY
(08/24/00; 09:11:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35459)
The Letter !!
ETHAN B. STROUD
ATTORNEY AND COUNSELOR AT LAW
DALLAS, TEXAS
August 21, 2000
United States Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Attention: Mr. William J. Rainer
1155 21st N.W.
Washington, D.C. 90262-0581
Dear Sir:
This letter is written as a formal complaint concerning the illegal price manipulation of gold and gold derivatives by numerous bullion banks and brokerage houses. This unlawful price fixing has been continuous since l996. It is respectively requested that an investigation be made by the United States Commodity Futures Trading Commission into this unlawful and illegal activity.
Background. The worldwide demand for gold has been approximately 4,900 tons per year. The annual supply from gold mines has been approximately 2,550 tons. The world wants, but is short 1,800 tons. Past demand has been partially filled by European central bank sales and loans. In September, l999, however, fifteen European central banks announced the termination of their gold sales and loan programs with the so-called Washington Agreement. Major gold companies followed and have announced the termination of their hedge and forward sales programs. Of course, neither the United States Treasury nor the Federal Reserve Bank admits to lending or selling gold.
Circumstantial Evidence. Gold demand has increased. The supply has shrunk. The shortage is 1,800 tons per year. Logic demands a higher gold price. But gold is at a twenty-two year low. During the last few years platinum and palladium prices have doubled, oil prices have skyrocketed from $10.00 to $31.00 per barrel, the CRB index has moved substantially higher, the M3 money supply has increased fifty percent. The gold price during these years has strangely, suspiciously, and unnaturally plummeted down over $l60.00 an ounce! This price decline is an aberration and fraud caused by short selling of rogue banks and brokerage companies with borrowed gold or paper derivatives.
Gold is scarce and easily manipulated. These illegal traders have destroyed the free market in gold. They have caused irreparable harm to mine workers, employees, corporations, investors and thousand of shareholders and threaten other free markets elsewhere.
Prima fascia evidence of illegal gold price manipulation is that J.P.Morgan, New York City increased its short sales of gold derivatives in l999 from $l8 billion to $38 billion in the last six months of l999. These facts are public record in the Office of Comptroller of the Currency at the Treasury Department, Washington D.C. Goldman Sachs is not required to make similar filings. However, its egregious record of short selling at $290.00 can be affirmed through the trading records of the Comex exchange.
Gold traders from Morgan, Goldman Sachs as well as Chase Bank, City Group, Deutsche Bank have all conspired to keep the gold price under $290.00 and have intentionally moved the price away from a level reflecting the legitimate forces of supply and demand. This illegal and unlawful price fixing by these traders has caused the present and future price of gold to become artificial and hundreds of dollars below the present, free, fair market price.
Remedy. The swift and simple proof of these allegations will be determined by this Commission issuing a cease and desist Order prohibiting all of these traders from the selling of gold. (This is a common equitable remedy to prevent further irreparable harm and damage.) Within a few days, after the entry of this order, the present artificial price of gold will rise to its true fair market value of six hundred dollars.
It is therefore respectfully requested that your office immediately begin monitoring the past and present trading activity of the above listed traders with respect to whether they have intentionally caused the price of gold to become artificial by their short selling and have thus unlawfully manipulated the market price of gold both in interstate commerce and for future delivery.
Respectively submitted,
Ethan B. Stroud
15190 Prestonwood Blvd Suite 628
Dallas, Texas 75248
972-503-1159
Le Patron Note:
Ethan Stroud is a former Federal Attorney with the Justice and Treasury Department
CoBra(too)
(08/24/00; 08:45:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 35458)
And of course it's CFTC ...
Commodity Futures Trading Commission - I better shut up for a whhile - see you -cb2
CoBra(too)
(08/24/00; 08:42:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 35457)
Typo's again..
Last sentence refers to traders, or was it "raiders"?, after all. Sorry cb2
CoBra(too)
(08/24/00; 08:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 35456)
First legal volley at US FTCT...
Over at the GATA and the cafe you can find a formal complaint written by Ethan B. Stroud (former Federal Attorney at Justice and Treasury) to FTCT's William J. Rainer. The copmplaint concerns illegal price manipulation of gold and gold derivatives by numerous bullion banks. This is unlawful and has been continuing since 1996. Requests investigation and later names J.P. Morgan as prima fascie evidence.
Also names GS, Chase, City and DB from keeping POG capped at $290.
Remedies a cease and desist order from the Commission against prohibiting above raders from selling gold.
Great, go GATA, Stroud and Bill and gold - best cb2
JMB
(08/24/00; 08:21:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35455)
AllenC
Would you kindly expand your thoughts. Start with "No need to smirk fella." What was I smerking about?
Are you one of these "$30K POG" types? If so, I must have hit a nerve...I suggest that you visit your local pharmacist for a prescription change.
Your ilk is leading many fine people astray.
GOLDHUNTER'S post regarding Futures was excellent. I felt Aristotle was unnecessarily rude and gave him a little dig...for that you chastise me with your typical incomprehensible nonsense. You have been led astray by a false Messiah who teaches, among other things, that Futures have no place in our world, no?
$30,000 POG, HA...do you know what that would mean?
DEFEND YOURSELF OR DUMMY UP.
Bobbo
(08/24/00; 08:15:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 35454)
Love it when a plan comes together...
As I posted yesterday:
The bullish XAU/POG Divergence continues and that augers good for the gbugs. Taking a quick scan of the XAU techs we are in blast-off mode. 30 min, 60 min, and daily stochs or ready to fly (weekly is in bearish mode, but in oversold territory and can change with a big up tomorrow and Friday). Also: RSI, MACD, etc., are all very constructive for an upmove. Many bullish tech divergences have developed. POG (Dec) is in similar oversold condition and ready to turn up and rally as shorts will have to cover bigtime. The famous historically profitable Aug sell period for gold is coming to a close and the "market makers and movers" will not let the spec shorts off easily (both Gold and XAU spec shorts). So I expect a turn before the 31st...Greed will burn 'em...
NOT getting shaken out today (au stox) was the right thing. Only minor fractional losses. Now on strenght you will have a confirmed uptrend developing and a good buy signal. If we do hold it will be possible that lift-off can begin tomorrow. Everything is way oversold and while that can continue it looks as if the selling is coming to an end.
-----
Now we ain't seen nuthin’ yet....When the shorts realize this up move has legs, voila....
Next resistance at 52.85 area, where we left a tiny gap the other day, then back to retest 55 area. Sooooo keep the gbug faith....the sun is about to shine on us. I love it when a plan comes together.
Comments on durable goods orders today (-12.4%; largest drop ever) and effects of recession on the trembling USD and the strengthening POG will be appreciated....tia
Christopher
(08/24/00; 07:13:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 35453)
Rx Gold msg #35442
Sir,
If you would be so kind, I would like to ask you a few questions about your previous post. Your hobby is fascinating to me, and I would like to learn more. Would you please contact me at boogfhu@hotmail.com, at your convenience?
Christopher
wolavka
(08/24/00; 07:13:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 35452)
take notice
dec gold moving up to 277.80 closing on breakout. durable goods already discounted into futures price, should move higher. feds move to do nothing super big mistake.
LeSin
(08/24/00; 07:06:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 35451)
We Move Towards Washington Agreement -"2" ???
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bretton_woods.htm
We are almost one year since WA. That rocked the Gold markets. Where will the next meeting take place? Are we near WA-"2" ? In the interim a review of Brenton Woods Agreement might assist. If we do not understand the past any future look is of little use.
[Taken from Chapter 1, International Financial Markets, 3rd edition, by J. Orlin Grabbe, © 1996 Prentice-Hall, Inc., a Simon & Schuster Company, Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. ISBN 0-13-206988-1.]
THE RISE AND FALL OF BRETTON WOODS
by J. Orlin Grabbe
Cheers "S"
Black Blade
(08/24/00; 06:39:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35450)
"Morning Wakeup Call!"
Sources: BridgeNews, and theminingweb
THE EASTERN FRONT:
Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold rebounds on physical demand
By Mari Iwata and Polly Yam, BridgeNews
Tokyo--Aug. 24--Spot gold rebounded in Asia on Thursday due to physical demand after it tumbled overnight to test the nearby support of U.S. $270, dealers said. Gold may fall to test the support level again
later on Thursday but may recover quickly due to technical supports, some predicted. Silver failed to follow gold's strength in Asia after it was pushed down by gold's falls overnight.
Black Blade: Ho Hum.
THE AFRICAN FRONT:
South African golds reduce hedges 10% in quarter
South African gold producers continued to reduce their forward sales in the June (third) quarter and there are few fears that the recent price weakness of bullion will slow the trend. The gold price has slipped to the lower reaches of most analysts' expectations for the year but a sense of torpor has descended on the gold market rather than panic. AngloGold for one is positive gold has support at $272 per ounce. The predominant sentiment is one of uncertainty, says Deutsche Bank Securities precious metals analyst Greg Hunter. Gold appears to have found some support at $272 per ounce but US Interest rates are steady while the rand depreciation appears to have stopped. The result is a discernible lack of activity in the gold sector. "They (the gold producers) would not want to lock into lower prices," says Hunter. According to BoE Securities gold analyst Piet Stoltz, South African golds are unlikely to reverse their decision to unravel their hedge books. "AngloGold has said it will maintain an open view on their hedge book but Harmony and Gold Fields have rejected hedging altogether," he says. Nor has Randfontein has altered its hedge book lately. This was after closing out obligations for the next two years in January soon after the company was bought by Harmony Gold. Nonetheless, it's worth bearing in mind that Randfontein's hedge book is $46 million underwater, according to Stoltz.
The total South African hedge book fell nine per cent to 29-million ounces with majors AngloGold and Gold Fields reducing their positions 10 per cent in the period. This is according to a recently published report by Chase Fleming Martin. AngloGold reported the largest decline in volume terms, down 2.5-million ounces to 21.8-million ounces. Including significantly altered positions, specifically Durban Roodepoort Deep and Western Areas, the discounted cash flow value of the South African hedge book is estimated to have declined 23 per cent to R2.1 billion, according to Chase Fleming Martin. The broker's estimates are based on a gold price of about $275 per ounce. There's no doubt that rand weakness will help South African gold producers keep their nerve in respect of hedging. The rand has a profound effect on the outlook for the companies. For example, the rand gold price was R1 573 per ounce in mid-January but increased to R2 052 per ounce when the Zimbabwean land crisis was at its height. The rand value of gold is currently at R1 906 per ounce. The relative quiet in the South African gold sector is likely to be shaken by the approval of the Franco-Nevada merger with Gold Fields. The matter is currently being reviewed by the South African finance ministry and Reserve Bank but a decision is thought to be only weeks away following the approval of the Competitions Board earlier this week (see Curve Ball). If approved, the merger is expected to precipitate a rash of consolidation in the world's gold industry led by the cash flush merger. AngloGold is also expected to make further acquisitions before the end of the year, analysts say.
By: David McKay
Black Blade: It only makes sense to stop hedging with forward sales at these prices. Many forward sales at most mines would only lock in an unprofitable price. I discussed this some time ago. Once the price is driven down and the hedges are delivered into, then what? Forward sales or sales of current production at market becomes a wash . That is why when Barrick touts its hedging program, it really is nothing more than a self-defeating policy in the long-term. Eventually the forward sales prices and market prices converge at or near the average cost of production. Lower prices force mine closures with bullion banks left holding the bag with substantial liability. Then POG has nowhere to go but up. Any miners holding low priced forward positions face the wrath of angry shareholders, margin calls a la Ashanti and Cambior, and severe opportunity losses. It is nothing more than a huge gamble at current prices, obviously the SA miners see the writing on the wall. As far as acquisitions are concerned, AngloGold would do well to absorb Barrick to take the largest forward positions off the market by delivering into the hedges, thereby forcing the POG higher and creating a miner mega-powerhouse at the same time. Just a thought since both are heavily hedged and therefore a perfect fit.
Meanwhile, S&P Futures up +0.80, Fair Value up +0.29, Flat-neutral. Au is up +$0.80 at $271.30, Ag down a penny at $4.75 (A screaming bargain!), Pt unchanged at $569.00, and Pt off -$8.00 at $717.00 as a result of further increases in margin requirements as the NYMEX defaults on its Pd obligations. Pd margins are rumored to have been increased upwards of $200,000 per contract which is absurd! This is a lesson to all who wish to trade PM futures - Get out! Get out Now! It is now obvious that the NYMEX is involved in simple theft! The big story is still oil and NG. The price of petroleum is still climbing and the refiners are running full blast, yet inventories decline. The financial media is beginning to wake up to this, yet yammer on about how oil is not important to the economy anymore. I guess that's why Billy Clinton and Larry Summers were on television giving a news conference about oil, right? The only question is how long before the other commodities follow suit along with gold. The manipulators days are numbers, then all hell breaks loose. Oil is up +$0.05 at $32.07, while NG is likely become the real story with high prices, mandatory conservation measures, and ramped up exploration and production activity. Either that, or shiver in the dark.
wolavka
(08/24/00; 06:17:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35449)
watch grains today
crb will profit from move, globex overnite dec gold,positive.
Canuck
(08/24/00; 05:24:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35448)
@ M.K.
Mr. Kosares,
Thank you for your response to my question posed yesterday.
A brief little tidbit.
Aug. 3rd, 4th and 5th saw a national coin dealer show at the Congress Centre in Ottawa. I wish I had noted the name of the association but a large group of coin dealers from around Canada gathered in Ottawa for their annual coin show.
Approximately 50 dealers had exhibits trading coin and notes; the Royal Canadian Mint was also on hand. Perhaps you have heard of this association in Canada?
I was on the hunt for silver bullion, picked up the one and only 10 oz. JM bar and a handful of one ounce wafers. I bought a 'basketful' of Silver Maples and silver dollars at 'melt' price. It was delightful to buy at 'spot' but on the other hand discouraging to see it going at that price.
I hope demand picks up for all of us; right from 'little' guy like me to 'big' guy like you. Good luck!
Second tidbit,
I buy bullion from a dealer literally down the road from me in Ottawa. I buy on the 'dips' (please excuse my buy on dip
mentality; I think one must if thinking in a business sense). I have not bought bullion south of the border because I have ASSUMED that shipping, insurance, duty, exchange and customs add to the cost therefore I am forced to buy locally. If the premium was marginal, that is to say if my assumptions are incorrect please let me know. I frequent Toronto and Montreal on occasion; do you have an agent north of the border? Your website and this forum are second to none and I will gladly support said in a fiscal manner if possible.
Thank you for everything.
Canuck.
Hipplebeck
(08/24/00; 04:39:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 35447)
my new experiment
I posted awhile back about an experiment that I was running where I have been showing everyone I run into gold coins and letting them hold them and examine them. It was very enlightening, and verified my thoughts that now days the common person doesn't have any experience with gold, and if they haven't experienced it they are not going to think about it.
I have now extended that experiment. I am doing something practical to make a difference, and I hope some will follow suit. I have, for the last several months, been using gold and silver coins as money in my small town. Where ever and when ever I can, I trade and spend gold and silver coins in my daily transactions. I want everyone in this town to get to know about it. I want them to talk about it. I want them to show each other. I want them to think about it and perhaps follow my lead. There are a lot of very conservative people here, and a lot of people who don't trust the government. I would like to start a groundswell movement whereby the people take it upon themselves to change the way we do business here. So far I am getting mixed results, but I have been able to spread around quite a bit of PM. I encourage everyone to not hoard the coins but to spend them as I do. It gets people thinking about the value of the coins and gets them to pay attention to the spot price etc.
One small step....
On another subject, I believe the oil price is a direct reflection of pressure being put on the US to force Isreal to make concessions. Who knows what will happen after the elections or if some deal is worked out on the Jerusalem problem? My guess is that until something is done on this front, oil prices will continue to rise.
wolavka
(08/24/00; 04:38:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 35446)
Anyone know
The yiddish word for omerta?
RossL
(8/24/2000; 3:52:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 35445)
Western point of view on the financial markets
Some of the long-time posters on this forum have repeatedly stressed that events should be viewed by contrasting the western point of view with other worldly points of view. It is my opinion that most Americans are blind to other worldly points of view. That may be analogous to only looking one way before crossing a two-way street.
Thanks to Goldhunter and JMB for precisely defining the western point of view.
AllanC
(8/24/2000; 0:55:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 35444)
Futures Contracts
JMB
No need to smirk fella
Everyone on this board knows the question put by Goldhunter was well and thouroghly answered.
Small bit players like you will always get their gold, as will the Indians and Chinese who buy jewellry, the system was meant to operate that way.
If you don't believe, just look at the recent developments in the Palladium market.
Why do you hang around here?
ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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