All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
slingshot (2/23/04; 23:36:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 117592)
Midas Crusade
For those who stood so close to Hammerton's West gate, watching the mighty blows of the Gemanic Giant's axe, they would have thought victory was at hand. Like the game of chess, an unanticipated move has put one player on the defensive. He must now rethink his stategy. So the Goldbugs retreat knowning that they will advance again when the time is right, and advance twice as hard.
Sir M.K. had seen the fire and the pushing of his Knights and men from the bridge. He thought for a moment and it came to him. Althought the main battle was on the West Gate it came to easily. The Dark Forces had come forward but allowed themselves to be encircled and the heavy thrust to the gate would not have been allowed by any competant commander. Much waste of men in battle.
He sat on his steed and wondered what his counterpart was made of. The lost of so many warriors. For what? What did he want to prove? This disturbed this Great Knight.
Servant! where are you? Therroth said in his loud voice.
From the shadows the little man appeared. Yes, My Lord. What is your wish.
Come close to my side for I have questions for you, said Therroth.
When he reached the table,Therroth began to speak.
Tell me, once Castle Lord, what do you know of these Goldbugs? You have fought them and lost your castle to these people. How do you account for your unfortunate occurance?
The fallen Castle Lord stood silent.
Tell Me!, said Therroth, or I will have drawn and quartered!
A few seconds past and then the little man spoke.
They are great warriors bound by a cause of metal by which mighty swords are forged. They adhere to a code that by standing among them one understands. They are free thinkers and will never except a yoke of burden and that makes them dangerous, even to you My Lord.
BE CAREFUL SERVANT, in your choice of words. Your life may depend upon them, said Therroth somewhat irratated.
Gandalf could hear the words exchanged and he wished he could have lit up his pipe to enjoy what was being said a little better.
They have a commander which all rally around, even in the darkest times but, most of all they are patient. They will wait you out and take advantage of the slightest thing.
Weather has no impedence on them. They do willingly what is asked of them without no remorse.
Be aware of their code of Honor. To Violate it will bring
you to your demise!
Therroth stood up and walk around the table to the side of the Little Man.
Slap! Never say that again!
The Castle Lord pick himself up from the floor and as he rose looked back at Gandalf.
The Servant, once a Castle Lord, stood up straght and faced Therroth and said.
You have no Idea of what faces you!
Be Gone from my sight before I have you Killed, said Therroth.
He flew into a frency.
Therroth drew his sword and slashed at the candle holders and hacked into the table before him.
He turned to Gandalf. They think they will save you!
Gandalf, watched him closely.
In the end many Goldbugs will die and you will be amoung them, my apprentice!
Slingshot--------------<>
Waverider (2/23/04; 23:33:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 117591)
Bush aide urges overhaul of Fannie and Freddie
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1075982752818&p=1012571727088
"Writing in Tuesday's Financial Times, Greg Mankiw, chairman of president George W. Bush's council of economic advisers, warns of the systemic financial risks posed by the fast-growing federal-backed entities and calls for the creation of "a world-class regulator".
Foreign ownership of GSE and other federal agency securities totals $234bn, according to government data. Overseas investors regard the GSEs'[government sponsored entities] investment worthiness on a par with US Treasuries, because of their perceived implicit backing of the federal government. But, in his article, Mr Mankiw says this impression is "inaccurate". He calls for a regulator with broad authority over the GSEs, including the ability to set risk-based and minimum-capital standards. The regulator should also "re-evaluate" the privileges granted to the GSEs as publicly traded companies operating under federal charter. These include exemption from state and local incomes taxes and from certain disclosure requirements with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Citing a Federal Reserve study, Mr Mankiw notes that "the interest rate on the debt of Fannie and Freddie averaged 40 basis points below that on comparable securities", yet most of the subsidy goes to executive compensation and shareholder profits. While the subsidy raises issues of fairness, it more importantly "creates a source of systemic risk for our financial system".
Waverider: What is the true state of affairs for Freddie & Fannie? A failure in either could be the straw that breaks the economic paper house of cards. Sounds like the Fed's worried so imagine what's cooking behind closed doors.
Waverider (2/23/04; 22:56:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 117590)
Spot testing $400.00 again....
http://focus.comdirect.co.uk/en/detail/_pages/charts/main.html?sSymbol=GLD.FX1
Don't be shy now Spot - show 'em your stuff!
Toolie (2/23/04; 22:43:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 117589)
Townie,
I was under the impression that the Yuan had (at least) limited circulation outside China. Thanks for the insight.
seagull (2/23/04; 22:27:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 117588)
**** $402.6 ****
The performance in gold over the previous 12 months is dependent upon which currency is used to express it. In USD, there has been an increase of approximately 20%, while in AUD, there has been a decrease of about 13% (and decreases in other currencies). Hence, the significant event in the stellar performance would appear to be a function of a declining USD.
TownCrier (2/23/04; 22:23:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 117587)
Toolie, my second try
I think I have found a better way to articulate what I struggled to explain in my previous answer to you. Consider it this way.
For all practical purposes, outside the borders of China the yuan simply does not exist.
U.S. monetary officials are therefore powerless to establish any particular dollar/yuan exchange rate that would have any meaning.
It is only within the borders of China that this currency exists. And it is only there -- where only the Chinese officials can dictate the rate -- that this exchange rate has any significant meaning: Because that is where the labor is being done in relative isolation at yuan wages.
R.
Waverider (2/23/04; 22:14:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 117586)
Oh my.....
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/archive/2004/0223.html
..here's the link....
Waverider (2/23/04; 22:12:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 117585)
Puplava: Helicopter Money and Away it Flies......
"The world is awash in liquidity with helicopter money that is printed out of thin air and dumped on to the financial system. Central banks everywhere are injecting vast amounts of credit and money into the financial system. Fiscal and monetary policy is focused on reflating the global economy. Money is literally being dropped from helicopters on to the financial system and the economy.
The three main culprits are the Bank of Japan, the Bank of China and the Federal Reserve. Central banks are expanding their broad money aggregates with some more aggressive than others. Not since the Dutch Tulip Mania, the Mississippi Scheme and the South Sea Bubble days of the 17th century has there been this much money printing. The money aggregates are expanding everywhere and this in itself is inflationary. Inflation is an expanding money supply and everywhere you look the supply of money is growing and expanding. Governments are financing never ending deficits with limitless oceans of paper money. If the present rate of monetary expansion continues unabated, we may soon run out of forestable land. Central bankers will need to harvest all of the world's timber just to keep up with the pace of monetary inflation.
Not since the days of the Weimar Republic have we seen this level of monetary debasement. These are truly historical times...."
Waverider: Today's market wrap-up by Puplava is an excellent read - not to be missed. Speaking of being missed - Black Blade we hope you are well and we wish for your speedy return!
Gold is (2/23/04; 21:41:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 117584)
******$411.6*******
Not just one event but the same event over and over, the falling dollar. It seems that when left alone (unmanipulated) the dollar will keep falling. All fiat
currency will fail in time. Gold is beautiful and a store of value, get some, then get some more. Gold is
Lady Liberty (2/23/04; 21:36:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 117583)
Contest Entry! And, hey, where's the redesigned dollar bill?!
***402.9***
Over the past 12 months gold has risen nearly 20% and is generally considered by financial analysts to be one of the top-performing assets over the last year. That did not happen in a vacuum. What would you say is the one event - above all other events - which most contributed to gold's stellar performance over the past year, AND why?
Inflation, I would say, is why! But there are so many other factors too, who can say definitely which one is the main factor?
Thanks to Sir MK for his graciousness in hosting these cool contests (I sure hope I win!! That'd make my year!) and Gandalf the White for his able assistance.
My question: What the heck ever happened to the "new" redesigned dollar bills??? I remember there was a flap by the media on that (how typically trite) and they did come out in circulation for a short while. It just dawned on me that I have not seen any redesigned bills in a long time, who are hanging on to them? Or has the Mint stopped printing those because it's just too expensive compared to the older style?
Lady Liberty
who has a darn hard time keeping up with the volume here!
:-( Wish I could post more often, read more often....!
Waverider (2/23/04; 20:46:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 117582)
RobotGuy
Glad to see that you are well. While you're here - don't forget to enter the price guessing contest that Sir MK has so graciously hosted once again. Cheers,
Waverider
RobotGuy (2/23/04; 20:42:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117581)
Hey Kids!
Just droppin' in to say hi! Hope all is well with everyone!
Cheers!
RobotGuy
Victory Over Lies (2/23/04; 20:24:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 117580)
Gold Contest
****$392.00
The Enron fiasco. I think Enron encapsulates all that is rotten in our financial system. A corrupt business environment where executives, bankers, and government officials are complicit in stealing millions from the unsuspecting public. I think the American public is scared and angry. Buying gold both is a way of both relieving those fears and bringing about change in the financial system.
steady (2/23/04; 20:17:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 117579)
knock knock KNOCK KNOCK>>>KNOCKKNOCK THRUMP!
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
By Theodore Butler
While I have mixed feelings on the current Martha Stewart trial (should it have been brought in the first place?), the government's case is centered on the principle that lying in an investigation obstructs justice. That's an important point in the legal process. It's probable that the government has selected such a high-profile celebrity to try to send a strong signal to those who may be tempted to lie in future investigations.
It is important that no one obstructs the path to truth and justice in any investigation. But it should work both ways and apply to the government, as well. In fact, the government should probably be held to a higher standard. After all, most senior officials in the government swear an oath of office to upholding the Constitution and truth and justice.
I believe that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) is obstructing justice in its regulation of the COMEX silver market. I don't know if the CFTC's obstruction is based upon malfeasance or incompetence. But that doesn't really matter. They are guilty of obstruction. This is a strong allegation, and it is one I do not make lightly.
The CFTC is openly shirking its responsibility of preventing market manipulation in the silver market. This is the primary reason why the CFTC and US commodity law exist. Every other responsibility is secondary. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the CFTC to be alert should they receive credible allegations of a market manipulation. That is not happening, and it is why I say that the CFTC is obstructing justice.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that the silver market is manipulated. Every day, more and more people agree. Manipulation is the number one crime in any market, and preventing it is the chief responsibility of our regulatory structure. The silver manipulation is proved by the law of supply and demand, which dictates that the price of a commodity must rise if consumption is greater than production. The very existence of silver "leasing" and the largest uneconomic naked short position in history are visible manifestations of the manipulation, as is the depressed and controlled price for two decades.
The CFTC (and the self-regulators at the NYMEX/COMEX) are obstructing justice by avoiding an open and public "trial" of the silver manipulation. Who knows, maybe they have good answers to the simple questions I have asked them. Maybe they have good reasons for not adopting the solutions I have offered. But, their refusal to even discuss these substantive issues is not comforting. What would happen to Martha Stewart, or any defendant, if no defense to government accusations was offered? What would happen if subpoenas and trial dates were ignored? Then why should a government, of, by and for the people be allowed to simply ignore and evade what is clearly a public mandate? What happens if the public presses the government to redress an obvious wrong and the government refuses? What if great numbers of concerned citizens demand the government to enforce existing law and the government looks the other way? Where does the majority turn to seek an open and impartial setting to ! judge whether their concerns are legitimate or not?
There are close to 3000 names on the silver petition, in addition to countless letters sent to the regulators, demanding a resolution of the silver manipulation. I have not seen one comment, from anyone, suggesting that the regulators should not address the issue. It's as if the CFTC and the COMEX are intentionally trying to undermine public confidence in the integrity of the silver market. Refusing to respond quickly to legitimate questions about obvious problems, accompanied by fair solutions, asked by thousands of regular investors will not foster integrity.
I would like to put something into perspective here. I know hundreds of you have taken the time and effort recently to write to the regulators about this matter, and I know thousands of you have put your name and comments on the petition. For that, I thank you. What you have done, in my opinion, is to accelerate the timetable on what is a certain and inevitable outcome - the termination of the silver manipulation. I believe we are reaching critical mass.
When I initiated my campaign to end the silver manipulation in 1985, it basically consisted of writing to the CFTC and COMEX (directly and through elected officials) concerning the outsized dealer short position. I'd mail a letter, get a non-responsive reply a month or two later, write back advising why their answer was non-responsive, and initiate a new series of complaints as new evidence arose. This went on nonstop for up to 12 years, as did the silver manipulation. It was basically between them and me, and they disregarded me. There was nothing I could do about it, except start all over again.
Around 1996-97, I was introduced to the Internet and began to record my thoughts there. I still wrote to the authorities, and the silver manipulation continued, but others started to see what I was seeing. Others began to speak out about the manipulation in silver. People started to become outraged over the manipulation. I think this makes all the difference in the world. Regulators and government officials only seem to react when enough folks get angry. Precisely because so many regular people seem to be upset by this issue, I believe the regulators will be forced to act soon. If they don't, they will be swept up with the real manipulators when this thing blows.
The key issue here is the excessive short position by the dealers on the COMEX. It has been instrumental in the 20 year silver manipulation. Let me be clear - without the uneconomic and outsized naked dealer short position, the price would be many times what it is currently. Take away that dealer naked short position, and there is no more silver manipulation. This is a problem for the dealers - they can't get out of their short position. Sure, they can engineer sell-offs to cause technical fund and small speculator liquidations (like we've been witnessing), but they can't completely cover their entire short position. That's because there is no one willing to take their place on the short side. The dealers are stuck. They can't just cover or buy back their shorts because that would cause the price to explode and expose them to massive losses and a legal quagmire. Since they can't cover, their short position remains intact, as does the manipulation.
But time is not on the side of the dealers. The clock is ticking against them. That's because of the real supply/demand situation and the deficit. Sooner or later, their uneconomic short position will consume them. That's guaranteed by the law of supply and demand. In fact, there are two recent developments that promise to put serious pressure on the manipulative shorts. For one, we have recently evolved into pronounced deficits and shortages for a good number of base metals, like copper, nickel, lead, steel, and a host of other commodities. The deficits and shortages in all these commodities are as a result of surging world demand, principally caused by strong demand from East Asia. Prices are up sharply and inventories are down sharply. Like all these commodities, silver is demographically and economically sensitive. As I've written before, if the world economy is strongly demanding copper, lead, nickel and other commodities, it is impossible for silver not to also be i! n strong demand. This is not good for the shorts.
The second recent development putting pressure on the manipulative shorts is what I wrote in the body of this article, namely possible regulator involvement. Thousands of regular investors are putting pressure on the regulators to address their legitimate concerns. This is a bonus particular to silver, and not any other commodity. It has the potential to blow the market sky-high, by terminating the decades' old manipulation. In fact, I think the regulators may be forced to give the silver issue a full and fair trial. That's all we want; nothing more, nothing less. If they can throw the book at Martha Stewart, the government can, at the very least, look at the dealers' silver books. Those dealers have caused a lot more economic harm that Ms. Stewart ever did. And the CFTC has obstructed justice a heck of a lot more, as well.
Dollar Bill (2/23/04; 20:00:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 117578)
.,.
http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm
It appears Greenspan could make a speech about nader. His closet of skeletons is the link.
Dollar Bill (2/23/04; 19:46:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 117577)
.,.
http://www.nader.org/interest/021500.html
A few days ago Ralph Nader laid out a case against the greenspan fed. He needs the forums assistance, that is for sure, but he makes a good start.
Dollar Bill (2/23/04; 19:38:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117576)
.,.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2004/20040223/default.htm
Greenspan is a hoot. this from yesterday pumping up the National Credit Union conventioneers....
"...In evaluating household debt burdens, one must remember that debt-to-income ratios have been rising for at least a half century. With household assets rising as well, the ratio of net worth to income is currently somewhat higher than its long-run average. So long as financial intermediation continues to expand, both household debt and assets are likely to rise faster than income. Without an examination of what is happening to both assets and liabilities, it is difficult to ascertain the true burden of debt service. Overall, the household sector seems to be in good shape, and much of the apparent increase in the household sector's debt ratios over the past decade reflects factors that do not suggest increasing household financial stress. And, in fact, during the past two years, debt service ratios have been stable."
If I was at this event, I would want to be 3 sheets to the wind sitting next to the Mogumbo Guru. And you guys:)
Toolie (2/23/04; 19:19:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 117575)
Steady
Useful, to what end? If the goal were to save the fiat dollar, a two tier system may have use. I'm not sure that that is the goal. There are better folks to ask than me. I'll keep the thought in my head though..
MK (2/23/04; 19:06:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 117574)
Disturbing Trends
We were quite surprised this morning at the number of people who wanted to receive "Disturbing Trends: Is Now the Right Time for Gold"
In case you missed the offer in that long post the other day:
Write Marie:
marie@usagold.com
If you would like to receive a copy.
Please indicate if you want to receive it by e-mail or regular mail. Leave your physical address if you want the hard copy.
__________
From "Disturbing Trends"
"Since the last time Disturbing Trends was updated - in July, 2003 - it has become evident that the tendencies summarized did directly affect the U.S. economy (though at the time only a handful realized just how pervasive those conditions would become), and many of the outcomes predicted did come to fruition. For one, the government fiscal and trade deficits did intensify as predicted until the phrase ‘twin deficits’ became part of the daily financial vernacular. The decline of the dollar did "prove to be the most dangerous and devastating disturbing trend for the average American investor and the one most directly linked to a bull market in gold." And the strong dollar policy did become "a thing of the past" right down to Alan Greenspan's apparent and very public abandoning of it in his Congressional testimony of February 11, 2004.
In short, the disturbing trends did not go away as a group like many politicians, Wall Street analysts and university economists predicted, but marched relentlessly on. We invite you to delve into this latest version of Disturbing Trends: Is now the Right Time for Gold? Though the analysis and the uncertainties it underscores should be cause for concern, there is a commonly availabe remedy - gold ownership - which has a long history of balancing such risks and offering protection against the uncertainties to which they give rise.
_______
We invite your interest. Please head your e-mail "Disturbing Trends" as Marie gets quite a bit of e-mail.
Gandalf the White (2/23/04; 19:04:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 117573)
TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA -- POG Contest Entry LISTINGS !
Entries as of MONDAY 2/23/04 at about 19:00 Denver (MST) time !!!
Listed in order of decreasing values !
----
*** $44,444.4 *** mikal (02/19/04; 23:07:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 117414)
**** $444.4 **** Zhisheng (2/17/04; 23:13:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 117274)
**** $439.1 **** Gold Standard (2/19/04; 04:38:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 117359)
**** $433.6 **** steady (2/17/04; 22:22:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 117268)
**** $432.1 **** Gandalf the White (2/17/04; 22:16:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 117265)
**** $430.1 **** ha_tey_o (2/18/04; 00:53:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 117280)
**** $427.0 **** Sundeck (2/18/04; 09:31:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 117302)
**** $423.0 **** The Silver Surfer (2/20/04; 07:07:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 117428)
**** $422.2 **** monTROZ (02/19/04; 23:36:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 117418)
**** $420.0 **** Liberty Head (2/18/04; 10:53:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 117305)
**** $419.2 **** Smeagol (2/18/04; 23:16:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 117354)
**** $417.0 **** J-Bullion (2/20/04; 07:17:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 117429)
**** $415.1 **** Henri (2/19/04; 13:09:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 117374)
**** $415.0 **** Clink! (2/18/04; 08:57:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 117296)
**** $414.7 **** slingshot (02/20/04; 00:38:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 117420)
**** $414.6 **** Goldilox (2/20/04; 12:19:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 117443)
**** $413.5 **** Waverider (2/21/04; 23:27:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 117509)
**** $413.3 **** Felix the Cat (2/23/04; 06:03:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 117542)
**** $409.9 **** pmurgsRSA (02/20/04; 04:22:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 117423)
**** $409.2 **** DryWasher (02/19/04; 18:23:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 117391)
**** $407.0 **** Dollar Bill (02/20/04; 19:34:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 117472)
**** $406.1 **** Rimh (2/23/04; 11:11:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 117553)
**** $405.4 **** Gondolin (2/23/04; 13:45:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 117558)
**** $404.8 **** Survivor (2/18/04; 13:58:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 117317)
**** $404.4 **** goldenpeace (2/23/04; 10:02:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 117550)
**** $401.7 **** Max Rabbitz (2/22/04; 12:50:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 117517)
**** $400.9 **** Trapper (2/22/04; 13:53:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 117520)
**** $398.0 **** Gonlyold (2/23/04; 12:27:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 117556)
**** $396.5 **** balzac (2/20/04; 11:49:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 117441)
**** $387.5 **** gvc (2/20/04; 12:45:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 117446)
**** $386.0 **** Brett Woods (2/21/04; 16:45:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 117503)
====
<;-)
Gandalf the White (2/23/04; 19:02:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 117572)
Socrates964 (2/23/04; 15:37:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 117561)
http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.pnf?c=$GOLD,P
"expands our target objective to 459.99 from 435.99. Gold has a lot more rocket fuel now!"
===
Thanks for the extra fuel for the next Green ROCKET, Sir Soc !
Hope $412. comes soon.
To $460. and then the MOON !!!
<;-)
steady (2/23/04; 18:54:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 117571)
question toolie
would a two tier monetary sytem of the reserve currency, one circulating in the host country and one circulating outside the host county be usefull or have anything to do with china remining pegged or unpegging or even getting pegged?
Toolie (2/23/04; 18:49:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 117570)
TC, Thanks for you response!
It may well be that the Chinese Central Bank would prohibit currency trading within their regime. Let us offer $1 for 6 Yuan at all banks outside of China.
It seems to me, that while we could not force the Chinese to change their peg, we could encourage it. By establishing our own peg, we let them deal with the expense (for them) in pursuing money laundering/smuggling within their country.
So we remove all Yuan from circulation outside of China, devalue their dollar reserves –and they do what? The world says 6:1. Where is the fun in being the 800 Lb. Guerilla if you don't get to through your weight around? I see it, as a question of political will on our part. The treasury/fed seems content with the current situation, regardless of posturing.
As to the US loosing purchasing power – SO WHAT? IT’S JUST PAPER!! We'll make more.
Great posts last few days all!
steady (2/23/04; 18:48:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 117569)
value? is that value relative or what r powell
even if it wasis all relative that derivative nugget is golden, maybe on one of the last upcoming cold dark damp dreeary days derivates can be disceted delerioulsy on here for the benifit of those who want to contribute to picturing the puzzel, not putting it together mind u but picturing it!
got the minds eye?
know how to use it?
gold and silver
honest money
honest people!
R Powell (2/23/04; 18:29:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 117568)
PS
If one were to consider only the speculative derivatives positions in any/a few/most/all markets I would guess that well over half of these would also be "hedged". So even individual investors may have a "notional" account value that seems staggering if each individual position in that account were valued at it's maximium downside risk. This is, of course, not a true evaluation of the account's risk. It overlooks the hedging or net value at risk.
Rich
R Powell (2/23/04; 18:12:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 117567)
Mr Gresham
"How Dey Do Dat?"
In reference to your post 117544, I may be able to clarify a little.
Let me start with a warning that derivatives and their use is the subject here. I state this for those who have no desire to read anything about them.
Mr Gresham's words...
"On a cash basis, the two positions aren't equivalent. Losses on derivative positions are unrealized (they are, in fact, paper losses). The gains on the hedges are real -- you get variation margin posted to your bank account, which you can withdraw and spend."
The losses (gains) are real but only fully settled as losses (gains) when the derivative position is offset or exercised. The underlying commodity or other asset that is being hedged is also real but again final profits (losses) are not realized until the position is offset.
This sounds complicated. It is not. If you bought your house for $100,000 years ago and it is now appraised at $250,000, you have a "paper" gain of $150,000. It's not in your pocket (available for use) or realized unless/until you sell the house.
Or, you paid too much for the house. It is now only worth $50,000. You'll realize the loss if/when you sell it for $50,000.
There's often much confusion over derivatives' value or risk. Huge numbers are often mentioned. You've touched upon the true hedging value for which derivatives have a risk limiting value (as opposed to purely speculative value). An example is the easiest way to describe this.
Wessonoil has a purchasing agent who warns the company that soybeanoil looks as if it is going up in price. The agent hired an analyst who confirmed these fears so the company decides to buy soybeanoil in the futures markets for delivery later when the oil will be needed. But, what if the analyst is wrong (very often happens) and beanoil goes down? The company does not want to take delivery later at a higher price than the spot market is charging. So, the company also buys some put options (right to sell the oil at the price now agreed upon) so that if beanoil goes down the company can sell the same oil it bought and sell at the same price even though "spot" is much lower. Then, out of their obligation to buy (at little loss), they will be able to buy at the lower price (that their competition is also buying at). What's been lost? Only the premium paid (cost) of the option.
Okay, that's easy enough, but what's the point of this and how will the company gain?
The option was bought to cover the possibility of beanoil going down. What if our analyst was worth his salt? Beanoil goes much higher! Now the company can take delivery from those bought contracts at the earlier lockin-in low price and buys much cheaper than the competition. The purchasing agent is a hero and gets an extra two weeks paid vacation. But what happened to those put options?
Here is what Mr. Gresham was refering to. As the price of beanoil climbed, the value of the (purchased beanoil) contracts also gained on a one to one ratio. A penny gain in oil price equals a penny gain in the contract. But, and here is my point, the value of the put options (right to sell) declined at the same time, and from the same cause, rising beanoil prices. But, the option value did not decline on a one to one basis, it lost about one third of a cent for every full cent the price of beanoil gained. So, now we have one derivative contract gaining in step with the underlying commodity while the protecting derivative (the put option) is losing value. One gains, one loses. However, once the contract gains enough (comparatively small amount) to cover the initial one time cost of the put option, then the contract is gaining without any further loss from the option. The contracts gain is unlimited, the option's loss is limited to what it was purchased for...a one time, paid in full, set price. Remember, the idea was to pay this small option cost to insure that Wessonoil has beanoil when it needs it at the same cost (or lower) that Brand X oil company will be paying (at that future time).
It is very common practice to hedge derivatives with other derivatives (both the contract and the option are derivatives) so that risk is not only contained but sometimes exactly defined. The downside risk of buying enough beanoil for Wessonoil's future needs is probably staggering but the downside risk of the example given is limited to the cost of the option which Wessonoil hopes will expire worthless. It is insurance for the long contract. Simply totaling up the number of contracts in any market and assigning a worst case senario or totaling the potential downside risk from this total is equivalent to denying that any hedging is present in these positions and equivalent to stating that everyone is going to lose the maximum amount from each position. This is impossible! For every sold position there is a buy and a sell. If you were to remove those positions that actually deliver product or take delivery of the same, then you would have only the speculative positions left. These positions will net zero! The futures "paper" game is a zero sum game, settled in fiat. If $10 billion
is lost today in speculative soybeans positions then $10 billion was also gained today, no more or less (minus, of course, commissions or the brokers' fees).
What's the value of any of this information. I sincerely believe it needs to be clarified every time I read someone state that the derivatives positions in gold or any market are such that disaster is not only unavoidable but only a heartbeat away. With our monetary system this may very well be true and will disrupt derivatives along with everything else but, the existence of derivatives does not insure armaggedon. Debt, fiat monetary systems, biological warfare, God's wrath, the interdependence of the global economy, who knows if or when?
However, when someone/anyone gives a "notional" value of derivatives, please think of Wessonoil and ask what's the "net" value at risk? And yes, "black swan" events such the Russian bond default will cause major losses. I wonder if the holders of those bonds had any of that risk "hedged"? Also, I've no pity whatsoever for LTCM, just the counterparties. I also feel badly for those investors who believed stories of derivative meltdown when POG hit $354 or those who believed that GE would become bankrupt when their stock price hit $20. This is why I try to explain this complicated (some say wicked) business. Does understanding have value, even if that which you strive to understand is something you do not approve of?
Sorry for the length of this and I realize most have little interest here. That's why I placed the warning at the top. Hopefully someone will find value here.
Rich
TownCrier (2/23/04; 17:17:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 117566)
Toolie -- that is the best question of the day
The short answer is the U.S. cannot. The reason that China can effectively maintain this peg is that there currency operates under a completely different market regime. Their currency is not able to freely mix and mingle on the foreign exchange markets, so with a currency barrier against monetary ebb and flow encircling all of China, no amount of "intervention" by our Federal Reserve can drive the yuan higher or lower against the will of People's Bank which sits at the only doorway while regulating what passes through.
At the risk of oversimplification, I would make an analogy comparing China to an industrious lad in your hometown who likes to keep himself busy with a job of raking leaves for all of his neighbors. Say one dollar per lawn. As long as he has the will and autonomy to set his own prices and is indeed willing to work for low or lower real wages, there is practically no means by which you can force him to take higher pay for the job he does. He can simply refuse the extra dollars you try to give him, pocketing his chosen payment while letting the excess fall to the ground to be raked UN-utilized into a pile with all the other leaves.
Back to China. As long as the Chinese government and central bank has the will to maintain the peg, there is no amount of dollars we could force upon them that they couldn't as easily absorb into their reserve pile, always issuing 8.3 yuan for every dollar let through the wall as a matter of policy.
In the process we would definitely lose real world purchasing power (against all but each others products) in this battle of political will, but never could we change the peg while China's commitment to keep it remained at least as willful as our own to see it changed. Who will blink first? How low are we really willing to go?
Diversify with gold and watch safely from the sidelines with your future purchasing power kept safely intact.
R.
Boilermaker (2/23/04; 16:35:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 117565)
PPI Delay- A Theory
Last Friday's massive reversal of the $ and assault on gold looks like a "Central Planning" effort. With that in the works, an alarming PPI release on Thursday would have preempted and probably torpedoed the Friday plans. The response was to bury the bad news. The party must go on.
I'm thinking we may see an announcement something like this:
"The BLS PPI series will be discontinued pending a comprehensive review of the Index necessitated by the recent extreme volatility of some of its components that could result in potential inaccuracies. This has threatened its usefulness in reporting actual conditions. This review has been started and it is expected that an improved PPI index will be introduced in November this year."
Boilermaker
TownCrier (2/23/04; 16:31:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 117564)
It's all good.
http://www.usagold.com/AMK/MK-gold.html
Visit. Absorb. Thrive.
R.
Toolie (2/23/04; 16:29:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 117563)
TC- I've got dumb question
RE: Yuan Peg.
Why doesn't the US peg the Dollar to the Yuan. Let's say 6 Yuan to a Dollar?
TownCrier (2/23/04; 15:58:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 117562)
Currency news -- U.S. - Chinese working group to meet
http://businessplus.hemscott.net/hstoday/AFXNewStory.dll/text?SerialNumber=2425&Indate=23/02/2004&EPIC=
WASHINGTON (AFX) -- The Bush administration sent six economic officials to Beijing for the first of several meetings aimed at providing technical assistance to China that could eventually allow China to float its currency, now pegged to the dollar.
In the past year, the dollar has weakened against the euro, the pound, the Canadian dollar and the Japanese yen, but not against the yuan. China has fixed its currency at roughly 8.3 yuan (also known as the renminbi) to the dollar since 1994.
The working group was agreed to by the two nations last fall, after Treasury Secretary John Snow traveled to Beijing in September and asked the Chinese government to remove its nearly decade-old peg to the greenback.
The Chinese rebuffed Snow before he even arrived in Beijing, but agreed to participate in this working group on currency and other matters.
------(url for full text)-----
If/when China floats, the dollar will lose yet another pillar of support. Diversify into gold to safely usher your purchasing power through these ongoing important monetary transitions.
R.
Socrates964 (2/23/04; 15:37:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 117561)
P&F
http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.pnf?c=$GOLD,P
Quick update on Au - another 3-box reversal to the downside.
Assuming we form a double bottom here (i.e. gold doesn't trade below 392.00), we need to print 412.00 or better to set up a bullish reversal. The fact that we have added an extra 2 columns expands our target objective to 459.99 from 435.99. Gold has a lot more rocket fuel now!
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (2/23/04; 15:37:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 117560)
Diversify your portfolio with grace and confidence!
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
Liberty Head (2/23/04; 13:57:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 117559)
Currency crisis hits Formula One
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html
snippit:
Formula One teams stand to lose more than $100 million this season due to the diminishing value of the United States Dollar, according to a report.
--------------
Liberty Head:
Maybe Bernanke should send one of his cash dropping helicopters to Monaco? Snicker snicker.
Best Wishes
Gondolin (2/23/04; 13:45:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 117558)
****$405.40*****
There is no greatest single factor in the stellar performance of gold this year - it should be put down to everyone on this and other sites across the world who provide the truth and their wisdom about the true state of affairs and seek to share their knowledge with those without.
Federal_Reserves (2/23/04; 12:56:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117557)
Extending Unemployment Benefits
Extending Unemployment Benefits
Benefits Extension Legislation
02/09/04 Update:
Legislation to extend unemployment benefits for six months for unemployed workers was passed by the House last week:
Jobless Benefits Extension
The legislation would provide benefits for people whose unemployment expired between December 21, 2003 and June 30, 2004 and would provide assistance to an estimated 2 million workers.
However, in order for unemployment benefits to be extended, the Senate also needs to vote on and approve an extension.
Gonlyold (2/23/04; 12:27:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 117556)
****398.0****
The one event - above all other events - which most contributed to gold's stellar performance over the past year is the efforts of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA). Why? Because through GATA's actions, they have signalled and identified an existing restraint on the POG to investors which heretofore were unfamilar with such restraints and manipulations. As more and more investors have been made aware of the potential run on the increase in the POG if and when these restraints are rectified and removed, the investors have contributed to the present increase by their purchases of gold. In other words, GATA's actions have given these investors a hope and expectation of increased gold prices due to unrestrained free market demand and these investors have acted accordingly.
Goldilox (2/23/04; 12:08:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 117555)
Draft news
@ steady
"Hup, tup, trip, four,
You had a good job and it left, you're right!"
As current enlistments are expiring, the admin is looking for ways to repopulate the ranks, as more "peace keepers" will soon be needed in South America, etc.
steady (2/23/04; 11:44:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117554)
shut the door i feel a draft
http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php
W!
Rimh (2/23/04; 11:11:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 117553)
******** $ 406.10 ********
What would you say is the one event - above all other events - which most contributed to gold's stellar performance over the past year, AND why?
Demand! Demand by the smart money who know the where gold is headed.... demand by a multitude of foreigners who always have loved gold and will continue to accumulate it, as much as their budgets allows..... demand by simple folks like you and I who understand that it preserves wealth in times of uncertainty, of which we are most certainly in. Demand for real money, money which has no equal.
Gonlyold (2/23/04; 11:03:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117552)
Fiat and Gold Pennys
I can't wait to hear the comments on my penny's worth of fiat money or a penny's worth of gold statement. Kind of along the lines of what weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of iron. Could be interesting.
Gonlyold (2/23/04; 10:32:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 117551)
Lower Tax Burden?
Fed Res said, "The recent tax cuts have bought down the burden..." Not in Ohio. Although the fed tax burden may (?)have been reduced, the state sales tax burden has been increased. Along with a multitude of other taxes and mandated contributions (traffic fines), the people are over burdened with taxes. This burden is translated into labor and future labor.
Also, that 30 days work for food is interesting. I suspect that in the lower income families, that it's more than 30 days which, again, is future labor.
And it appears that this will get worse. If you wanted to look into the future to get a glimpse of what's coming in the food arena, read Rev 6:6 in the Bible. There we have "A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou not hurt the oil and the wine." Hm-m-m--m. I won't discuss the ramifications of that verse but suffice to say that that "penny" is not the almost worthless penny of today and that food will be expensive.
And one more thing. Also note that the demonination was stated as a "penny. To me it would be interesting to research whether this is a penny's worth of fiat money or a penny's worth of gold. Of course, all posters on this board realize that a "dollar" is just a name for the measurement of a quanity of money: as in a dollar of money and, by analogy, a gallon of milk. Right? Likewise a penny is a smaller denomination of a dollar. So, what's that barley really costing? Another Hm-m-m-m.
goldenpeace (2/23/04; 10:02:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 117550)
********$404.40********
The increasing notice that the dollar's decline over the past year has engendered in the investing community here and abroad is the reason for gold's stellar performance over the same period.
----
Smell of burning paper;
Amidst the heaps of ashes
golden nuggets shine.
Bowing with respect,
goldenpeace
Gandalf the White (2/23/04; 09:56:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 117549)
TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA -- POG Contest Entry UPDATE !
DEADLINE for enty is still WEDNESDAY at Midnight !!!
Entries as of MONDAY 2/23/04 at just before 10:00 Denver (MST) time !!!
Listed in order of decreasing values !
----
*** $44,444.4 *** mikal (02/19/04; 23:07:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 117414)
**** $444.4 **** Zhisheng (2/17/04; 23:13:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 117274)
**** $439.1 **** Gold Standard (2/19/04; 04:38:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 117359)
**** $433.6 **** steady (2/17/04; 22:22:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 117268)
**** $432.1 **** Gandalf the White (2/17/04; 22:16:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 117265)
**** $430.1 **** ha_tey_o (2/18/04; 00:53:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 117280)
**** $427.0 **** Sundeck (2/18/04; 09:31:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 117302)
**** $423.0 **** The Silver Surfer (2/20/04; 07:07:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 117428)
**** $422.2 **** monTROZ (02/19/04; 23:36:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 117418)
**** $420.0 **** Liberty Head (2/18/04; 10:53:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 117305)
**** $419.2 **** Smeagol (2/18/04; 23:16:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 117354)
**** $417.0 **** J-Bullion (2/20/04; 07:17:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 117429)
**** $415.1 **** Henri (2/19/04; 13:09:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 117374)
**** $415.0 **** Clink! (2/18/04; 08:57:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 117296)
**** $414.7 **** slingshot (02/20/04; 00:38:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 117420)
**** $414.6 **** Goldilox (2/20/04; 12:19:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 117443)
**** $413.5 **** Waverider (2/21/04; 23:27:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 117509)
**** $413.3 **** Felix the Cat (2/23/04; 06:03:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 117542)
**** $409.9 **** pmurgsRSA (02/20/04; 04:22:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 117423)
**** $409.2 **** DryWasher (02/19/04; 18:23:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 117391)
**** $407.0 **** Dollar Bill (02/20/04; 19:34:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 117472)
**** $404.8 **** Survivor (2/18/04; 13:58:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 117317)
**** $401.7 **** Max Rabbitz (2/22/04; 12:50:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 117517)
**** $400.9 **** Trapper (2/22/04; 13:53:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 117520)
**** $396.5 **** balzac (2/20/04; 11:49:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 117441)
**** $387.5 **** gvc (2/20/04; 12:45:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 117446)
**** $386.0 **** Brett Woods (2/21/04; 16:45:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 117503)
====
The USAGOLD -- Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. "CALL to CONTEST" has been sounded by SIR MK !!!
Just determine the APRIL ‘04 Comex Contract Settlement price on Friday Feb. 27th, AND answer the QUESTION:
Over the past 12 months gold has risen nearly 20% and is generally considered by financial analysts to be one of the top-performing assets over the last year. That did not happen in a vacuum. What would you say is the one event - above all other events - which most contributed to gold's stellar performance over the past year, AND why?
Sir M. K. said, "Let's make the WINNING prize a Dutch King goldpiece - (0.1947 oz. of Au), and the two RUNNERS-UP each win an one ounce U.S. Silver Eagle."
===
THE RULES -- (We MUST have RULES !!) --- PLEASE READ !!
1) THIS Contest consists of TWO Portions --- A Price Prognostication and a short "STATEMENT" !
2) The Winner is the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX APRIL 2004 Gold Contract (GC4J) on the date of FRIDAY, the 27th of February, 2004. HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00 MST) on WEDNESDAY, February 25th, 2004.
---
The countdown begins !
<;-)
Clink! (2/23/04; 09:46:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 117548)
@ Melting Pot - All is not totally lost....
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst020204.htm
At least there is still one member of the House who thinks like Crockett did :-
Snip: Government is incapable of austerity measures for a very simple reason: the money it spends belongs to others. Unless and until federal politicians are voted out of office for their sins, we can only expect the spending, borrowing, taxing, and printing of fiat money to continue.
C! No prizes for guessing who said that, though - the field isn't very large !
C!
Federal_Reserves (2/23/04; 09:20:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 117547)
Tax Freedom and Forms
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday.html
On average we work 109 days out of the year to pay our taxes, about the same as 1990. The recent tax cuts have bought down the burden, but at the cost of huge budget deficits. Interesting to note, the average Joe works 30 days to pay the food bill, but the Federal Reserve doesn't think these things belong in the "core rate of inflation", and of course taxes aren't included in the core rate either.
Tax forms
http://taxes.yahoo.com/fedforms.html
Taxes and death. Two constants.
Outrage of the week:
A shocking statement from the BLS today. When asked when the delayed PPI report would be made available, a spokesman said "I have no idea." This is an outrage. The head of the agency should be dismissed immediately. If they can't calculate the index in a new way, they should just continue on with the old. If you would like to write the agency and complain:
feedback@bls.gov
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040223/economy_prices_1.html
USAGOLD Daily Market Report (2/23/04; 07:21:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 117546)
Page Update!
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.
If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.
MK (2/23/04; 07:21:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 117545)
News & Views updated
http://www.usagold.com/AMK/MK-gold.html
The Coming Storm
You are invited to visit now, often. Updated regularly. Stay abreast the gold market via News & Views, this forum and the Daily Gold Market Report.
This is the website where serious gold investors congregate and keep in touch with the market. Please bookmark this page.
Mr Gresham (2/23/04; 06:50:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 117544)
The "How Dey Do Dat?" Chronicles, Pt. 437
http://www.prudentbear.com/bearschat/bbs_read.asp?mid=176109&tid=176109&fid=1&start=1&sr=1&sb=1&snsa=A#M176109
"Why Hasn't US Financial System Collapsed"
poster "sss355" sums up my random collection of ongoing gleanings in this:
"People often ask me why the US financial system hasn't collapsed given the excesses of derivatives and the repeated shocks to the financial system (9/11, Enron default, etc)
This is somewhat of a technial explanation, but I believe one reason is the structure of the hedges implemented by banks.
Typically, banks use futures and Treasury securties to hedge the market value of their derivative positions. As with any hedge, as the value of the derivative falls, the value of the hedge rises (and vice versa).
On a cash basis, the two positions aren't equivalent. Losses on derivative positions are unrealized (they are, in fact, paper losses). The gains on the hedges are real -- you get variation margin posted to your bank account, which you can withdraw and spend.
I believe that we now actually have a bizzare situation where as the losses on the derivative positions mount, the cash posiiton of the banks actually increase. In theory, the loss on the derivatives is supposed to impact capital (a fact that I'm sure the FED will find it easy to ignore).
Moreover, since [banks are -- ed.G] allowed to amortize the gain on the hedge over the life of the derivative they have the cash and don't have to declare it on their taxes.
I suspect (can't prove) that the FNMA, Freddie Mac are on the other side of the futures trades (they are the ones losing cash with unrealied gains on their derivatives). However, they have easy access to money.
Still this cycle can't continue forever (though I've been saying that for 3 years at least)."
G -- not much commentary below it; maybe because it just about says it all? And we only all wait for time to bear it out? I mean, hasn't Greenspan been praising derivatives on so many occasions? He's probably got these competing liquidity/insolvency graphs chasing him in his restless dreams...
Dollar Bill (2/23/04; 06:16:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 117543)
(No Subject)
Glox, I dont know. The Dinar comments were completely from the link. None were mine and I dont know that answer.
I have read elsewhere that the gold price manipulaters could sabatoge the dinar effort. How exactly? Aristotle probably knows.
Felix the Cat (2/23/04; 06:03:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 117542)
****$ 413.3****
Are the petroleum companies still using the "Dowser Rod" for seeking the petroleum? So, my answer is I still believe in my feeling!
F. C
TownCrier (2/23/04; 03:47:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 117541)
Indian buying spree
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=businessNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4412810
url for previous post
TownCrier (2/23/04; 03:45:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 117540)
Making lemonade
HEADLINE: Gold price fall in India spurs wedding buying
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Gold imports by India, the world's largest buyer, picked up over the weekend helped by a fall in prices during the Hindu marriage season, traders said on Monday.
Jewellers and investors, who had held back purchases over the past two weeks ago because of a sudden rise in prices, stepped up bullion buying after gold prices fell below $400 an ounce.
"We have had a busy weekend, there was a lot of buying and even today business has been good," said Rajesh Khosla, a New Delhi-based dealer.
In Ahmedabad 600 kg of gold was being traded every day, up from 200-300 kg two weeks ago.
...Hindu parents gift gold jewellery to brides for financial security.
-----(from url)------
Parents know what's best for their children, and when security is on the line they don't leave anything to chance. Nothing less will do. It's gold at every turn.
R.
Golden Lionheart (2/23/04; 02:04:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 117539)
The competition.
Just an idea from a new poster. Why not have a cut off date say three or four days prior to the date on which people have to predict the price. That would involve more skill or perhaps guesswork. Jon.
Usul (2/23/04; 02:02:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 117538)
Zbigniew Piekarski on Bubble trouble
http://www.wbj.pl/?command=article&id=21373&&PHPSESSID=eb31201df8a0594d4a30b54d717d84ca
From the Warsaw Business Journal
"Some of the smartest, brightest and most powerful people in the world gather together at exclusive venues in order to discuss aspects of the world economy. They then attempt to provide solutions to whatever they see as being a problem. Such meetings have become media events and the answers to questions raised are treated with reverence and respect; for if these individuals cannot identify a problem and provide a solution, then who else can?"
Waverider (2/23/04; 01:34:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 117537)
India Gold-Price fall spurs wedding buying
http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/040223/minerals_india_gold_1.html
"Gold imports by India, the world's largest buyer, picked up over the weekend helped by a fall in prices during the Hindu marriage season, traders said on Monday. "We have had a busy weekend, there was a lot of buying and even today business has been good," said Rajesh Khosla, a New Delhi-based dealer. In the western city of Ahmedabad 600 kg of gold was being traded every day, up from 200-300 kg two weeks ago. "The current rate of less than $400 an ounce is very attractive."
Waverider: As Spot'n Spike battle for $400.00 and trading steps up in India, I bid thee all Golden Dreams!
Goldilox (2/23/04; 01:07:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 117536)
Au @ $400
http://focus.comdirect.co.uk/en/detail/_pages/charts/main.html?sSymbol=GLD.FX1
We're Ba_ack! Sic 'em Spike!
ViewYesterday's Discussion.
