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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/23/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Gandalf the White (04/23/02; 23:53:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 74184)
Is it a FULL MOON tonight ?
<;-(

MarkeTalk (04/23/02; 23:52:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 74183)
New proposed Treasury reporting requirements for gold dealers
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020423/economy_treasury_terror_1.html
We must be getting close to a financial meltdown for the Treasury, i.e. IRS to propose new dealer-reporting requirements on precious metals dealers. Today's Wall Street Journal carried a front-page article smack dab in the middle of the paper so no one would miss it. Of course, the spinmeisters referred to the new legislation as The Patriot Act and in the process equated terrorism with money laundering. However, this is nothing more than a disguised ploy to find out where the gold is in the event of a crisis. And a crisis will open the door to another gold confiscation. The new legislation hopes to ostensibly stop tax evasion as well. This tactic has been used by the IRS for some time because it is easier to get a conviction on money laundering than on tax evasion. The requirements of the money laundering statute are easier to meet.

So what does all of this mean to the average investor??? To those thinking individuals who have more than just a body temperature and a pulse (which sadly is the majority of American society), it means BUY YOUR GOLD NOW BEFORE THE RULES ARE ENACTED!!! I have repeatedly told my clients over and over again to expect a further closing of the loopholes with respect to gold transactions. And now that fateful day is coming upon us. But you don't have to be a victim. BE PRO-ACTIVE, NOT REACTIVE!

The only reason the IRS did not include gold dealers in past legislation was because gold has been in a bear market for so long--about 19 years from 1980 to 1999. But now the gold bull market is about two years old and the price won't go back down below $300 per ounce. The chart looks great and many people are turning to gold. Economically, the insiders in Washington, DC know the poop is ready to hit the fan and the gold price is ready to go beserk. Just look at the headlines of this week. Argentina's economy has collapsed and so has its new government. The IMF is refusing to give new aid as the whole mess gets nastier. US and European banks have taken bigger hits on Argentina's loan defaults than they first admitted. Japanese banks are still in the intensive care unit and on life support. And now add to this fine mess the most recent meltdown in the telecoms sector (MCI Worldcom, Ericsson, Deutsche Telekom, Lucent (again!), the list goes on) and you can see why gold is so robust.

In conclusion: What the final rules will say about reporting gold transactions to the Treasury is anyone's guess. But why wait?? You know it is going to be bad news, so ACT NOW before the gold dealers are required to get your social security number and other personal information. To all of my present clients and prospective clients: Just pick up the telephone and call me here at Centennial on extension 102. As I am wont to say: a word to the wise is sufficient. All others--this means all procrastinators and idiots--will suffer needlessly. That is a guarantee you can take to the bank!

GC

Mr Gresham (04/23/02; 23:37:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 74182)
oops, link
http://firefly.sparse.org/%7Emrt/cgi-bin/t.cgi?field=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usagold.com%2Fcpmforum%2F
Don' read the whole darn thing, sucka!

Mr Gresham (04/23/02; 23:35:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 74181)
IGWA, T-ranslated
I just thought we could benefit from some further exegesis of the IGWA (whom I do thank for his contribution) scenario, courtesy of a well-known T-V celebrity...

IGWA (04/23/02; 17:56:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 74136)
Here's What gonna Happen...Fanciful? I pity the fool! ~ Tell Murdock why...~The fool's crazy! that darn crisis gonna come. Where's that Murdock? ~ Another terrorist attack, Helluva Enrons, Japan, the the Faceman or something that darn isn't presently even on the darn radar screen. It doesn't matter what gonna be some catalyst for some crisis. It gonna come. ~
dollahs markets world -wide go into free fall and trading gunna be suspended. Foo! When they re-open, Helluva precipitous drops cause panic among investors and governments.~Shut up, fool!

Gold jumps $30, then $60 then $150. ~Not again... Gold shares rocket 100%, then 200% in days.~You couldn't take on a bunch of girlscouts singlehandedly!

that darn US $ drops like a stone. ~Get out of my way, sucka! Currency markets are chaotic as the crazy corrupt financial system unravels.Crazy Fool!

Crowds of silent, stunned investors gather outside dollahs exchanges in cities, watching as the crazy tape records the darn debacle. ~One of these days I'm gonna pound you all into the ground... Large crowds watch the unfolding drama on TV screens in shops, restaurants & cafes. ~Come on, you can do better than that! ~ Helluva queues form outside PM shops, at first Helluva selling gold and silver, then, as some price of gold passes $1000 and that darn dollar drops even further, all are panic buyers.Crazy Fool!

Leaders appear on TV calling for calm. Fool! ~ There are runs on the crazy banks as prices increase dramatically. ~You got that right, crazy man. Supermarkets sell out and shut their doors. ~You lied to me! Trucks and trains bringing supplies into cities are set upon by gangs and robbed. ~You don't have no plan. You didn't have no plan 'till now. the darn supply chain begins to break down. ~I ain't goin' to no airport. I ain't flyin' with that crazy fool Murdock. ~ Businesses close en masse. ~

Troops are called in to assist police in keeping order in and around banks as people scramble to get their dollahs out. ~I ain't afraid to fly, and I ain't afraid of no monkeys either. There gunna be rioting.~This man's nuts!
After just 6 days, banks close their doors throughout the darn world.~If you don't get your finger out of my face, I'm gonna turn it into chopped liver!
PM shops have sold all their fool's gold by now, and are closed. ~Murdock... Is this your chicken? ~ Gold sells for $3,000 oz. privately. Foo! ~ thoze site is Helluva busy. ~Leave the man alone! Lots of caps…(Mr.T'M RICH!!! Foo! WE WERE RIGHT!!! ~Murdock... Is this your chicken? ~ GO GOLD GO!!! This milk better not have no sleepin' powder or nothin' in it. ~ WE ARE the crazy TRUE BELIEVERS!!!)

the crazy under class rise and LA burns again. And London. This milk better not have no sleepin' powder or nothin' in it. And Paris. ~What! Idiot shot the tires on my van!!!! Terrorists seize the moment.~

the darn POO reaches $180 pb as the darn Muslim world seizes it's chance to destroy the darn infidels. I pity the fool! Industry grinds to a halt. ~No way, fool... ~ the US uses its armed forces in Saudi in an attempt to keep the crazy pipe lines open. ~I'm gonna hit you so hard I'm gonna knock you into next week!

Locally, martial law is declared. This milk better not have no sleepin' powder or nothin' in it. Essential services start to fail. ~Kill those suckas! that darn nightmare has begun.~Got no time for the Jibba Jabba.

World leaders meet in a secret location and hammer out a new world order over 3 days of intense negotiations.Darn fool!

Almost half the darn world's population watch the live telecast. Crazy Fool! People are shell -shocked having seen everything they took for granted turned upside down. ~You couldn't take on a bunch of girlscouts singlehandedly! ~ They want stability, at any price.

 A World Council has been formed using the structure of the darn old United Nations as a template.~I ain't goin' to no airport. I ain't flyin' with that crazy fool Murdock.
 World Council Law gonna apply throughout the crazy world. ~No, fool! All parliaments and other forms of governments, politicians, heads of state, & royalty, are banned/dissolved forthwith. ~Murdock... is this your chicken? some World Council gonna control all nations from its New York head office, using proxies in each country to carry out its instructions.
 some World Council Armed Forces gonna be trained and sent to every major city in the world to keep order. Prepare to feel the T's fist! thoze force gonna eventually number 5,000,000. ~Shut up, fool! ~ They gonna answer only to that darn World Council, and be Helluva highly paid, attracting loyal, elite servicemen (no women).~One of these days I'm gonna pound you all into the ground... >
 the darn World Council Bank gonna control all finances for all countries from some Central World Council Bank. ~Dont stay up late, eat all your greens. Remember I love you. I'll see you soon. Mr A. ~Now get the first-aid kit before you have to use it on yourself! ~ Greenspan gonna be its first Director.~What's keepin' those fools!
 A new world currency, that darn NEW gunna be effective immediately. ~Don't touch that! ~ All existing currency is to be exchanged for the crazy NEW at pre-determined rates of exchange.~
 the crazy World Council believes that crazy Helluva of that darn present problems have been brought about by that darn barbaric metal, gold. ~That's right, I hate coincidence! ~ the darn selling, use or possession of gold or silver is gunna be banned from that darn time of this crazy announcement. ~ All gold & silver in private hands is gunna be to handed over to authorities within 48 hours. Foo! ~ Failure to do so gonna result in 15 years imprisonment, without trial, or appeal. ~ All gold/silver mines are to be closed and guarded. ~ Gold/silver shares are suspended indefinitely.~Shut up, fool!
 the crazy World Council understands the darn enormity of these changes, which are for the Helluva of the people of that darn world. ~I don't think so, suckah. It has decreed that darn in order to manage 'dis crisis, resistance to it in any way, gonna result in immediate death by firing squad.Foo! ~
--------------------------
Fanciful stuff. ~ Right?~This man's nuts!




IGWA (04/23/02; 21:36:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 74164)
Gentlemen....~What you doin'?!? You can't drive, sucka!!
Aristotle....the Faceman 've already got Mr.T little house - and outhouse - on the darn prairie, thanks.~You mind your own business, fool!

darkhorse... What's this Jibba Jabba? ~ hard to provoke those with heads deeply in some sand...Foo! ~

Your RIGHT about no queues o/s PM shops - some mobs gonna storm them..and the troops gonna desert to look after their own.. ~ Yep. ~ it's gonna be worse than some T thought, thanks for that darn pointers.~Yeah... I think I can rig something up...

mikal... ~This man's nuts! ~ "Fanciful, myopic, paranoid, hysterical & neurotic" Spot on. ~Who me? I ain't afraid of nothin'. And that crazy 's just a Helluva of the darn posters here...~Not again...
As for no "silent, stunned investors" Well the crazy Faceman's friend, in Oct 87 Mr.T wud silent & stunned, with hundreds of others outside some Sydney fool's gold Exchange as I watched that darn Faceman's life time investments evaporate before Murdock's eyes. ~ Fear is tangible. ~My fist's gonna see you later if you don't get that lizard away from me! Mr.T can smell it. Crazy Fool! Murdock smelt it then - Murdock's own fear, and that crazy of others. ~When I get finished with 'em, they're gonna be really big on pain. ~ We were fortunate(?) then that darn it didn't go on from there into a full blown economic catastrophe. Drink your Milk! this crazy time, Mr.T don't think we'll be so 'lucky'.~Not again...

OK. Maybe that darn T gonna being provocative. But Murdock guys report on some disintegrating financial world around us - Blackblade and others do a fantastic job of that darn - but the T fail to aknowledge that crazy governments gonna act. And that crazy action could be Helluva negative for gold. Mr.T just think Mr.T should face facts. that crazy 's all.~You better make sure nothin' happens to my gold.

Cheers!~This man's nuts!

igwa




YGM (04/23/02; 23:32:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 74180)
Goldfly...
My 2 bits...
I don't see you shrugging off at all. If you read you wonder & if you wonder you question. It's all a series of progressions I think. I first started rethinking and looking for new answers a few years ago after reading James Davidsons comments on how the big boys in the know were selling their homes in plush areas of NY. (The Great Reckoning) He siad they knew that there was going to be a day of reckoning financialy and so they were preparing for the storm. Sell & lease a place to live is essentially what he said. He never got into hoarding gold etc but it made me think. Well since then I've had many changes and many self doubts myself. His & Moog's predictions of total meltdown haven't yet come to pass but thier reasoning is becoming ever more evident. So to make a long story short I've offed all the land, stocks and debt, credit cards and leased a farm/ranch near a small town with good people and good schools and at the base of the Rockies :-)) continue to work at what I do but put more effort than ever before to be happy w/ family and life. Stress relieved in all ways if one does not get overwhelmed with what the world may or may not come to. I still learn all I can and pass on what I feel others may like to know (I may be overbearing here in that respect, and apologize) but my point is having security is what "IS" most important to me. Food stored, Gold, Camping Gear and a weapon to protect my family etc a P/U truck to haul it all if the need ever arose to become migrant is all I can do for that security and peace of mind.
Otherwise my friend I still got lots of room left in the basement for ping-pong and lots of hope in human nature and our future. Just staying aware and prepared is all we can do. Maybe trying ever so softly to awaken friends and loved ones comes with all of that....G'nite...YGM

Goldfly (04/23/02; 23:25:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 74179)
I hate emoticons
But I just can't help smiling!
:D :D :D


Goldfly (04/23/02; 23:23:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 74178)
"Boys they are that shout at the wind....
But a strong wind has no ears!"

- ANOTHER

Waverider (04/23/02; 23:20:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 74177)
Argentine economy minister quits as crisis grows
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3GXMF3E0D&live=true&tagid=FTDO9DHMZJC
Snippit:
"Argentina's economy minister resigned on Tuesday, throwing the future of the country's economic policy further into question and placing government in fresh disarry.

Jorge Remes Lenicov is the fifth economy minister to quit since the end of 2000. He decided to go after failing to secure congressional support for an emergency law converting at least 45bn pesos ($10bn) in bank deposits into government IOUs.

On Monday, President Eduardo Duhalde had put the problem in Congress's lap, saying that the future of the banks would remain "in God's hands" if the law was not passed. He added that legislators were free to elect a new president if they were unhappy with his performance. Congress appointed Mr Duhalde as interim president in January after nationwide rioting toppled two governments in December.

On Tuesday, Mr Duhalde was locked in crisis meetings to determine whether the loose parliamentary coalition that sustains him could survive. Participants were said to be studying broader changes in the cabinet as well as alternative plans to rescue the banking system, which is losing more than 100m pesos a day.

Amid the renewed political chaos, the country remained at a near-standstill, with transactions mainly limited to cash. Around the country, Argentines queued for hours outside bank machines in often frustrated attempts to get enough cash to see them through the bank holiday measures, which are due to be lifted on Friday. Many businesses were closed and others would not accept credit or debit cards."

Waverider: The abyss just seems to be getting deeper and darker for the Argentines, with no ray of light apparent on the horizon yet.

mikal (04/23/02; 23:11:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 74176)
@Goldfly
No kidding! BTW, my message to IGWA applies to ALL posters, in case you can't read.

Goldfly (04/23/02; 23:02:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 74175)
Mikal - Shrugging
Actually, I was talking about you... (and others...)

mikal (04/23/02; 23:00:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 74174)
Spelling correction
"Mistakes are our greatest teacher." : )

mikal (04/23/02; 22:57:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 74173)
@IGWA
Irrelevant posts here are always welcome by me, even when they disregard the background and precedent of preceding posts. Mistakes are are greatest teacher. Also, quotes from other posters should be accurate and taken in their original context if you would expect to be convincing.

mikal (04/23/02; 22:47:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 74172)
@Goldfly
Why do you "shrug off" the posts that talk about the economy, gold manipulation, war, etc.? Can't you be balanced and original?

goldquest (04/23/02; 22:19:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 74171)
@YGM
Thanks my friend! You have put things back into perspective! Best wishes, goldquest.

Goldfly (04/23/02; 22:16:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 74170)
Hipplebeck and Everyone....
Hip, you have nailed it. I'm wrestling with the same dilemma - How do I unplug myself from this inherently evil and ever-expanding fiat scam and still provide for my family? Do I just go carve out some land and squat? Let God handle the bill? Dunno. Doesn't seem quite right. It is a possibility though. Please continue to post, I will be interested to know your progress in the path you've embarked.

Everybody, IGWA's post is kid's stuff. The day is coming that will make Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like Huey, Dewy and Louie. I think we North Americans especially don't understand the depths of depravity of which we are capable and the kind of order that can be maintained by a reign of terror. We've been largely spared experience of that kind of thing. And it just isn't pleasant to think about. So we don't and when someone brings it up we shrug it off.

Of course, I am holding on to the PMs. They just may provide the leverage needed in a time like that. Maybe.

Golly, this is thoroughly depressing me. How about you? Ok I'll stop.

YGM (04/23/02; 22:06:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 74169)
Well the Happy Link was....
A little "Nauseus"....Except for this....
I am Thankful for ...


.... the mess to clean up after a party
because it means I have been surrounded by friends.

.... the taxes I pay
because it means that I'm employed.

.... the clothes that fit a little too snug
because it means I have enough to eat.

.... my shadow who watches me work
because it means I am out in the sunshine.

.... the spot I find at the far end of the parking lot
because it means I am capable of walking.

.... all the complaining I hear about our government
because it means we have freedom of speech.

.... that lady behind me in church who sings off key
because it means that I can hear.

.... the piles of laundry and ironing
because it means my loved ones are nearby.

.... the lawn that needs mowing, windows that need
cleaning and gutters that need fixing
because it means I have a home.

.... my huge electric bill
because it means that I am comfortable.

.... weariness and aching muscles at the end of the day
because it means that I have been productive.

.... the alarm that goes off in the early morning hours
because it means that I am alive!

LIVE WELL, LAUGH OFTEN, LOVE MUCH


YGM (04/23/02; 21:58:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 74168)
OK!......Us Doom & Gloomers (Possibly Realists....Time Will Tell All)
http://www.happynews.com/
Can turn over a new leaf (put on a happy face) and look for our daily fix of info here and finish the day with the link above, so we can all sleep better........YGM.

darkhorse (04/23/02; 21:54:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 74167)
@IGWA
Unless I missed a big part of it, Oct 87 wouldn't even be considered a ripple compared to what you described in your "fanciful stuff". I'm sure a lot of people got pretty quiet back then, but you/they weren't looking at the beginning of TEOTWAWKI, either. (TEOTWAWKI => anybody remember that one?) And I think you miss the point around here when you make statements like "...you fail to aknowledge that governments WILL act...". You may be right, those actions MIGHT not be conducive to holding PM's. But I think you should realize that not everybody thinks our government (ANY government) has our best interests at heart, and has proven time after time that they DON'T know what's best for all us little peons. Therefore, measures should be taken to provide for the health, safety and welfare of our families. You're playing the devils advocate around here, but I know what you're trying to say. Now, it's time I go nite-nite with my 3-y/o.

goldquest (04/23/02; 21:46:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 74166)
@Nomad
Thanks for your input and opinion. However, I doubt that any of us are angry at IGWA over his (her) posts. I have found that the majority of the members of this forum are open minded and tolerant of most contributions to this forum. My only comment about a negative position to the gold community is, if you walk into a biker bar and start badmouthing Harleys, look for a very vigorous debate and counter attack!

darkhorse (04/23/02; 21:37:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 74165)
@Nomad
I'm not sure anybody is really angry with IGWA or anybody else that seems to want to question/challenge the popular beliefs we hold around here. I, for one, can't stand anybody that believes their way or beliefs are the only ones that matter, and dismiss anybody elses just because they differ. What I DO object to is making an argument just for arguments sake, and not having anything concrete to back it up with. To paraphrase an old saying, "There's no substitute for knowing what you're talking about." Some of us aren't the best writers and this type of media leaves a whole lot of room for misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure most here can tell when a big pile of it has been thrown down.

IGWA (04/23/02; 21:36:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 74164)
Gentlemen....
Aristotle....I've already got my little house - and outhouse - on the prairie, thanks.

darkhorse... hard to provoke those with heads deeply in the sand...

Your RIGHT about no queues o/s PM shops - the mobs will storm them..and the troops WILL desert to look after their own.. Yep. it's gonna be worse than I thought, thanks for the pointers.

mikal... "Fanciful, myopic, paranoid, hysterical & neurotic" Spot on. And that's just a few of the posters here...

As for no "silent, stunned investors" Well my friend, in Oct 87 I was silent & stunned, with hundreds of others outside the Sydney Stock Exchange as I watched my life time investments evaporate before my eyes. Fear is tangible. You can smell it. I smelt it then - my own fear, and that of others. We were fortunate(?) then that it didn't go on from there into a full blown economic catastrophe. This time, I don't think we'll be so 'lucky'.

OK. Maybe I am being provocative. But you guys report on the disintegrating financial world around us - Blackblade and others do a fantastic job of that - but you fail to aknowledge that governments WILL act. And that action could be very negative for gold. I just think you should face facts. That's all.

Cheers!

igwa






Nomad (04/23/02; 21:22:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 74163)
American Tears ...

whoops :)

Nomad (04/23/02; 21:19:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 74162)
American Tears ...

Well I wrote a nice long post and then lost it all at the last second, so you will be spared (most of) my words of wisdom ... :)

The essence is that I AGREE with IGWA ... maybe not with the timing or the specific events, but with the idea that some huge changes are coming down the pipe. I happen to believe that we (well most of us, hopefully) will come out the other side of the next two decades into a VERY different world than we see today.

And even though I am not a big fan of NWO conspiracies, it is also obvious that the world IS moving in the direction of a one-world governement. Witness the recent calls to indite US officials (including Clinton) for their participation (tacitly, illicitly or openly) in Bosnian/Serbian war crimes. And why do organizations such as the IMF and WTO exert such tremendous influence on internal personal freedoms and business practices in ALL countries around the world ? (re: Argentina and China)

Most of you, I think, are angry that he (IGWA) is attacking your (and my) own personal sacred cow ... but one of the things that I have learned over the years is that I have to pay particular attention to those arguments that push my buttons and make me angry in some way, because that means that there is SOME truth to those arguments ... and I need to adjust my strategies to accomodate that truth instead of dismissing it out of hand.

Don't get me wrong, I think gold is a VERY wise investment/personal security blanket ...

It just isn't the ONLY one.





Nomad (04/23/02; 21:06:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 74161)
(No Subject)

well I wrote a nice long post and then lost it all at the last second, so you will be spared my words of wisdom ... :)

but the essence of it is that I AGREE with IGWA ... maybe not with the timing or the specific events, but with the idea that some huge changes are coming down the pipe. I happen to believe that we (well most of us hopefully) will come out the other side of the next two decades into a VERY different world of much more security (either through strict government control or vast decentralization) and longevity (150 years not being out of the question).

But in the meantime,hold on to your hats, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

And even though I am not a big fan of NWO conspiracies, it is also obvious that the world IS moving in the direction of a one-world governement. Witness the recent calls to indite US officials (including Clinton) for their partiBosnian/Serbian War.




Nomad (04/23/02; 21:06:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 74160)
(No Subject)

well I wrote a nice long post and then lost it all at the last second, so you will be spared my words of wisdom ... :)

but the essence of it is that I AGREE with IGWA ... maybe not with the timing or the specific events, but with the idea that some huge changes are coming down the pipe. I happen to believe that we (well most of us hopefully) will come out the other side of the next two decades into a VERY different world of much more security (either through strict government control or vast decentralization) and longevity (150 years not being out of the question).

But in the meantime,hold on to your hats, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

And even though I am not a big fan of NWO conspiracies, it is also obvious that the world IS moving in the direction of a one-world governement. Witness the recent calls to indite US officials (including Clinton) for their partiBosnian/Serbian War.




JCTex (04/23/02; 21:03:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 74159)
IGWA
"Fanciful stuff. Right?"

Yep, right out of hollywood.


darkhorse (04/23/02; 20:55:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 74158)
another intrusive, obnoxious law...
I read in the article that PM businesses (among others) will have >90 days for compliance. I really doubt if they want to know about little guys like me trying to buy an ounce or two at a time.

mikal (04/23/02; 20:50:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 74157)
Re: Proposed law on reporting
"It's effect on LAW ABIDING, average middle-class investors..." should be minimal, and tax-related, whereas large investors, smugglers, dealers, terrorists, etc. will be subject incarceration, interrogation, confiscation, and more.

mikal (04/23/02; 20:42:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 74156)
@goldquest
This proposal comes as no surprise, many expected it. It's effect on gold investors would be, to make it more difficult to evade capital gains taxes on certain classes of precious metals- i.e. the profits from sales to a dealer who chooses to report the transaction to the IRS as required by law. This reporting is required on a sale of bullion of $10,000 or more (in a single transaction) if I am correct, and certain numismatic coin sales too? Either way, I purchase largely anonymously, always tax-free, and will not sell large quantities all at once. If need be, I can sell a large quantity at one time anonymously.

slingshot (04/23/02; 20:35:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 74155)
Goldquest
Patriot Act and PM dealers
In an effect to counter the financial transactions of terrorists from today on all purchases or sale of precious metal will be accompanied by filling out form 2002 when the price exceeds $25.00 and reporting to the IRS is mandatory.
This action is no more complicated as filing a yellow sheet in the case when purchasing a gun. Just the paper is blue in color.
Slingshot--------------------------<> <> <>

goldquest (04/23/02; 20:16:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 74154)
U.S. Treasury Rules To Take Aim At Terror Funding
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020423/economy_treasury_terror_1.html
They are including PM dealers!

Black Blade (04/23/02; 20:14:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 74153)
IGWA – Investment Apocalypse and Gold Confiscation


I find that post quite humorous. If things do get that bad, then the US Government is irrelevant and the best thing to have are hard assets. Making Gold illegal would be meaningless and many in the previous Gold confiscation imply ignored the order. The Government can't even fight a war on drugs so there is no chance of any effective war on Gold. Besides, not every country will fall in line. Those who had Gold after the confiscation could simply cross either US border with their Gold and exchange for fiat if they wished. Actually I look at most victimless crime laws as nothing more than mere suggestions – they're nice but not for me. Cheers!

- Black Blade


Aristotle (04/23/02; 20:04:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 74152)
darkhorse (msg#: 74147) A marvelous response.
You have more energy than I do, and more generosity, too. I'd have cut it short by borrowing (with one modification) from your conclusion:

"Little OUThouse on the prairie."

He has lost everything who has lost all perspective.

Gold. Get you some. --- Aristotle

Ray Patten (04/23/02; 19:59:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 74151)
(No Subject)
http://www.tocom.or.jp/souba/souba_e.html
This is the right link.

Ray Patten (04/23/02; 19:51:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 74150)
Tonight's Gold rally...
gttp://www.tocom.or.jp/souba/souba_e.html
Someone on the Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) bought 2500 contracts of April Gold on the opening. As the open interest is only 4500 contracts for that month, it means that some short doesn't want to deliver or some new long is hungry for the real stuff. We'll know tommorrow night about this time when they publish today's open interest. The Tokyo market is already tight. Nearby prices are higher than the distant prices.

CoBra(too) (04/23/02; 19:46:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 74149)
The Bullion Desk is quoting Spot-
at 304.75 - 305.25 - a # I've expected somehow - maybe, that's why I'm still around tonight... a'''hem, this a.m.

... remind's me of a night - when I sold 5 K Poseidon in 71 - a penny stock going on to 300 Aussie's and broke the next day - and so did the US $ - as it was the same night when Tricky Dick decided to cave in to De Gaulle -on the mere question of gold redeemability of the US $ ... Debt!

Seems a futile question in view of the sheer enormity of outstanding - debt - where no one can ever dream to redeem the paper floating around the globe - for the value rendered to the system of irredeemable delusion.

What a scheme - perpetrated by the illusion of cold war and extended by the tenacity of ending up as the only super-power ... by supremacy and hegemony and seignorage of the printing press.

... Don't even want to continue my thoughts ... as they may be regarded as obstructive to the imperative - go gold - cb2 and g'nite to you too!



slingshot (04/23/02; 19:46:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 74148)
IGWA
Post on NWO
Kind of gives you something to look forward to. :o)
Slingshot-------------------<>

darkhorse (04/23/02; 19:43:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 74147)
@IGWA
Judging by your posts in the past few weeks, it's my guess your "fanciful stuff" was put up for provocation. You put all the elements together to make the worst case scenario for PM advocates...everything goes belly up, PM's go into orbit but it doesn't do any good for the average guy because they're declared illegal. I wouldn't presume to know what will happen in the future, so I won't say your scenario couldn't happen. I'm not very strong on economic theory, so I'll stick to a bit more of the pragmatic, Joe Six-Pack answer. If it happens:

- your level of economic, financial and social chaos COULD NOT be controlled until the world as we know it has totally disappeared
- there won't be any "...silent, stunned investors..."
- no "...long queues...outside PM shops..."; who's going to stand in line when "...all are panic buyers."? If gangs are going to rob trucks and trains, what will stop them from getting into these?
- when the supply chains break down (around the world), banks close their doors (around the world), businesses close en masse (around the world), GOOD people are going to be looking to provide for themselves and their families, so...
- you won't have any troops to call in to assist police (if it goes down the way you say, they won't be able to keep order, and they themselves will be deserting to go take care of themselves/their families)
- "World leaders meet in a secret location and hammer out a new world order over 3 days of intense negotiations."
YEAH, RIGHT! We're still talking about the kind of humans that live in THIS world, right? The kind of people meeting to set this up will not be the kind of people to agree on ANYthing over a 3 day period. C'mon, let's keep it this side of B movies.
- assuming (a big assumption considering your level of upheaval) some World Council does come out of it (definitely won't be over a period of days), how is it going to have such/any control over a world that just got the crap kicked out of it's infrastructure? (you name the sector...utilities, transportation, production, communication, etc)
- still assuming this World Council has "assumed control" over what's left, how are they gonna train and deploy ANY kind of force ANYwhere in ANY kind of time frame to do any good? After all, we're talking about 6 BILLION people (minus a couple billion or so that, in one way or another "didn't make it") to keep an eye on!
- this World Council won't have any form of government to ban/dissolve...your level of social chaos took care of that pretty early!
- here's what must be a stupid question...why in the world (what's left of it) would this World Council think all the problems stemmed from gold? This part gets REAL hard to believe! Anyway, whoever is left will NOT turn over anything that has been serving as valuable barter since TSHTF. I don't care if it's gold and silver or toilet paper and can openers. And after what they'd been thru, I'm sure they'd be real worried about prison or a firing squad (some just might look forward to the latter!)

I could expound on a lot of this, and bring other points to bear, but I think you get the point. Your scenario is total anarchy in some areas, and Little House on the Prairie in others. Anyway, enough is enough, so I'll let it rest....

mikal (04/23/02; 19:35:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 74146)
Re: IGWA Posting
This kind of extreme scenario has been predicted for as long as I can remember being able to read a newspaper. Fanaticism, myopia, paranoia, hysteria, neurosis all come in many forms- individually, socially such as cults, religions, and fan clubs, and institutionally such as religous extremists. Given the gravity of the threat and the time to contemplate and prepare, the government, military, businesses, and individuals have evolved highly effective deterrents and countermeasures. These include computer security, building and infrastructure security and ongoing enhancements, law enforcement investigations and arrests, gun ownership by truckers, businessmen, etc. Security surveillance is highly advanced over the day of the watchman or guard. Also in the highly improbable event of gold confiscation or banning, POG would be higher than you ever imagined- the blackmarket is alive worldwide for illegal goods, always has, always will. Gold was traded at coin shows, flea markets, pawn shops, and elsewhere in the US before 1974 legalization.

Black Blade (04/23/02; 19:31:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 74145)
Brownouts, Blackouts Ahead
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020423/nyfnsg02_1.html
Brownouts, Blackouts Ahead - Power Shortages Likely Due to Deregulation, According to 29-Year Power Industry Engineer

Snippit:

NEW YORK, April 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Deregulation is forcing the nation into serious shortages of generating and transmission capacity, which, within five years, will ultimately result in widespread-rotating-local and regional electrical brownouts and blackouts. The worst possible consequence of deregulation is the decline or decay in the reliability of the nation's electrical power supply. This is according to Jack Duckworth's paperback ``Power to the People, Electric Power Deregulation, An Expose''


Black Blade: I don't agree on the causes, but I do agree that we are facing a severe "energy Crisis" in the next few years, possibly as soon as this winter. When a problem is outta sight and outta mind, the problem is forgotten until it returns again. Nothing has been done to correct the energy generating and transmission shortfall of early last year.


goldquest (04/23/02; 19:26:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 74144)
IGWA
Yeah, Right! Fanciful BS!

mikal (04/23/02; 19:10:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 74143)
"Wealth of Reasons..."!
http://www.businessweek.com/daily/dnflash/april2002/nf20020423_1120.htm
The title in this week's Business Week article is suspiciously catchy: The tone of the article, the obvious censorship, and distortions are predictably mainstream, giving another bullish contrarian indicator. But sudden fresh exposure given to GOLD!, a big emphasis on gold's role, & a great title MK could have written!

slingshot (04/23/02; 19:03:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 74142)
Siege Engine
The Battle Continues
The Lord of the castle had gazed for sometime at the stone.
Just two little words with a major meaning. For a momment he thought, "Could they be right?". Only to be summoned to the wall again. The call rang out that riders approach under a white flag. Upon reaching the parapet he could see the riders below at the beginning of the bridge that crossed the moat.The image they presented were of simple living men bound by a cause. One of importance to be at the foot of a great bastion with many soldiers within its walls.
"What do you want? Why do you lay siege to my castle?" The Lord said with contempt in his voice.
"We come to set Gold free". replied the lead rider.
It shall not be! It is against the Laws of Pro Forma and the Derivative Decrees of the King, answered the Lord.
"Who is this King?" from the horseman on the left.
Who is this King who has no name,yet rules over the land.
Who is this KIng who sets families to poverty and places us in debt?
There was silence from the castle Lord for if he told them the truth he would have no more power. That he would not give up and could not for it would be the end of the Kingdom.
Instead he said, Sir Howe has been defeated in the north in his attempt against my brother. Our carrier pigeons are quite fast to carry news.
From the horseman on the right, Yes we have heard he has taken loses but not defeated. He is on his way here and his ranks grow each day.
The Lord surprized by his bold statement shouts out,"We have nothing more to say to each other,return to the safety of the woods. Gold will remain in chains!"
"We shall not let you sleep", are the final words heard as the three riders turn to go back across the open field.
When they reach their lines the machine again comes to life,hurling another large stone at the castle walls.
And the Lord of the castle wonders if this is the beginning of the end.


Gandalf the White (04/23/02; 19:00:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 74141)
Suggestion --
Save yourself from a HEART ATTACK -- Do not watch the K Chart !!!
<;-)
--
SPOT is doing well and JUMPING tonight with LARGE VOLUME !
SPIKE is "in the wings", getting ready.



Cavan Man (04/23/02; 18:37:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 74140)
Japanese Gold Buying: A theory?
Deposit insurance withdrawn to encourage gold buying in private sector. Japan Inc. realizes they cannot sell large quantities of UST without turning over the apple cart and also realize their portfolio is overweight UST. At the same time, they do reaize the need for gold within their shores as they are underweight in this asset class (gold). Will the trickle become a flood?

Gandalf the White (04/23/02; 18:32:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 74139)
JUMP SPOT, JUMP !!!
<;-)

Black Blade (04/23/02; 18:20:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 74138)
U.S. Will Probe Analysts for Criminal Misconduct
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk,&s2=ad_right1_topfin&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APMWRohQ5VS5TLiBX

Snippit:

Washington, April 23 (Bloomberg) -- The government, spurred by Enron Corp.'s collapse and concern over accounting irregularities, will conduct criminal investigations to determine whether securities analysts are misleading the public, a federal official said.

Michael Chertoff, head of the Justice Department's criminal division, said in an interview the government will focus on whether securities firms slant research to win investment-banking fees. His remarks escalate the pressure on Wall Street companies already facing congressional inquiries and shareholder lawsuits.

Punishing analysts for ``breaking the rules in the way they disseminate and handle the information of publicly traded companies seems to me to be one of the front-burner white-collar enforcement issues for the next several years,'' Chertoff said. ``We're going to be doing a lot of cases involving financial reporting.''



Black Blade: It's about time.


Black Blade (04/23/02; 18:06:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 74137)
Puplava Market Wrap Up
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
A good run down on outstanding bank loans that will not be recovered from Argentina to Japan. Also some nice tidbits on continuing SEC investigations, etc.

Also this from the article:

"Meanwhile ordinary Japanese citizens continue to withdraw money from the banking system. Japanese gold demand rose sixfold in March. Investors are buying precious metals as a safe haven from government imposed limits on bank deposit insurance. Gold imports jumped 569% last month to 13.2 tonnes. Based on the latest buying patterns, Japanese gold buying is expected to add 200 tonnes of additional demand this year. The gold market is already running a supply deficit estimated to range between 1,000-1,500 tonnes of gold a year. This deficit has been increasingly made up by central banks, whom have been dishoarding much of their gold reserves in an effort to keep prices suppressed. That may be coming to an end. At the moment, it is the only thing plugging the holes in the dike and keeping the financial system from imploding."

"Gold is coming back into favor after a multi-decade long slumber. The Chinese Gold and Silver Exchange Society in Hong Kong just debuted trading in gold kilobars. Minimum trading is in lots of 5 kilograms. The commencement of these new pure gold instruments is in response to the growing demand in Asia for gold. The rise in new gold trading instruments reflects an important inflection point in the precious metals markets that have been preceded by the rise in gold and silver shares over the last year."


I agree that the investment world is imploding and the sleepers are beginning to wake up. The spin from the monotonous drones on CNBC and the Pimps of Wall Street is no longer being accepted by the people on Main Street. They see that where there's smpke – there must be fire – and there is a hell of a lot of smoke out there.

- Black Blade


IGWA (04/23/02; 17:56:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 74136)
Here's What Will Happen...Fanciful? Tell me why...
The crisis will come. Another terrorist attack, more Enrons, Japan, the ME or something that isn't presently even on the radar screen. It doesn't matter what will be the catalyst for the crisis. It will come.

Stock markets world -wide go into free fall and trading is suspended. When they re-open, more precipitous drops cause panic among investors and governments.

Gold jumps $30, then $60 then $150. Gold shares rocket 100%, then 200% in days.

The US $ drops like a stone. Currency markets are chaotic as the corrupt financial system unravels.

Crowds of silent, stunned investors gather outside stock exchanges in cities, watching as the tape records the debacle. Large crowds watch the unfolding drama on TV screens in shops, restaurants & cafes. Long queues form outside PM shops, at first many selling gold and silver, then, as the price of gold passes $1000 and the dollar drops even further, all are panic buyers.

Leaders appear on TV calling for calm. There are runs on the banks as prices increase dramatically. Supermarkets sell out and shut their doors. Trucks and trains bringing supplies into cities are set upon by gangs and robbed. The supply chain begins to break down. Businesses close en masse.

Troops are called in to assist police in keeping order in and around banks as people scramble to get their money out. There is rioting.

After just 6 days, banks close their doors throughout the world.

PM shops have sold all their stock by now, and are closed. Gold sells for $3,000 oz. privately. This site is very busy. Lots of caps…(I'M RICH!!! WE WERE RIGHT!!! GO GOLD GO!!! WE ARE THE TRUE BELIEVERS!!!)

The under class rise and LA burns again. And London. And Paris. Terrorists seize the moment.

The POO reaches $180 pb as the Muslim world seizes it's chance to destroy the infidels. Industry grinds to a halt. The US uses its armed forces in Saudi in an attempt to keep the pipe lines open.

Locally, martial law is declared. Essential services start to fail. The nightmare has begun.

World leaders meet in a secret location and hammer out a new world order over 3 days of intense negotiations.

Almost half the world's population watch the live telecast. People are shell -shocked having seen everything they took for granted turned upside down. They want stability, at any price.

 A World Council has been formed using the structure of the old United Nations as a template.
 World Council Law will apply throughout the world. All parliaments and other forms of governments, politicians, heads of state, & royalty, are banned/dissolved forthwith. The World Council will control all nations from its New York head office, using proxies in each country to carry out its instructions.
 The World Council Armed Forces will be trained and sent to every major city in the world to keep order. This force will eventually number 5,000,000. They will answer only to the World Council, and be very highly paid, attracting loyal, elite servicemen (no women).
 The World Council Bank will control all finances for all countries from the Central World Council Bank. Mr A. Greenspan will be its first Director.
 A new world currency, the NEW is effective immediately. All existing currency is to be exchanged for the NEW at pre-determined rates of exchange.
 The World Council believes that many of the present problems have been brought about by that barbaric metal, gold. The selling, use or possession of gold or silver is banned from the time of this announcement. All gold & silver in private hands is to handed over to authorities within 48 hours. Failure to do so will result in 15 years imprisonment, without trial, or appeal. All gold/silver mines are to be closed and guarded. Gold/silver shares are suspended indefinitely.
 The World Council understands the enormity of these changes, which are for the good of the people of the world. It has decreed that in order to manage this crisis, resistance to it in any way, will result in immediate death by firing squad.
--------------------------
Fanciful stuff. Right?











USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (04/23/02; 17:25:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 74135)
NGS graded MS61 $10 Liberties (assorted 1800's), also uncirculated $20's from 1877
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