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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/22/2006 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) mikal (4/22/06; 22:32:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 143488) Germany seeks greater representation http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,2145,12215_pg_4,00.html IMF Spring Meeting Underway | Deutsche Welle | Apr 21, 2006 MK (4/22/06; 20:22:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 143487) PvB What a hoot:"Historically unprovoked attacks, by a country on another country, usually have implied that the country being attacked has something that the attacking country wants. Historically this 'something' was a commodity -- gold and silver being the favorite, oil being another, water and even salt being another. Rarely was a country attacked for their art, women, fashion, food recipes, or tourist attractions."If you're looking for the thinking man's thinking man, PvB is he. . .and with an incorrigible sense of humor besides. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 19:17:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 143486) From my own correspondent: All exits have been closed The essence of the debates concerns the unique global polarisation such as we (me at least) have never known it.Dollar surpluses (reserves) versus dollar debts (deficits) !!! Those surpluses have their origin "in" debts and are thus in principle also debts. These continuing going-ons can only be supported if the economic activity is allowed to increase proportionally. Und das geht NICHT. This whole virtual system cannot continue to proceed orderly if there are no proportional concessions for all parties > debt + PHASING-OUT of surplus !!!All exits have been closed.- Savers will not stop saving- Nor will debt producers ever stop.In the old days, the remedy (shock therapy) was always the same – brutal unilateral monetary devaluation. Das geht nicht mehr >>> Globalising world and unique situation (mega polarisation reserve-deficit). The only solution is then "revaluation". This seems to me to be the future which has been outlined for the gold euro.The weather can still be discussed the transition period.The Invisible Hand: more later. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 18:52:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 143485) Do you like T-shirts? http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060422-094120-9468r IMF: Time to address trade imbalances TownCrier (4/22/06; 17:36:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 143484) An update to "The Rocket School of Economics" has arrived. http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/RocketSchool/20060422.html "Oh dear..." says an uneasy sitemaster. With this latest installment it appears that Professor von Braun accidentally submitted commentary he meant for the 'Rocket School of Politics' instead.Entitled "A Very Slippery Slope!", in it von Braun discusses his views of the motives and consequences of the war in Iraq and the building showdown with Iran.(excerpts)...The rationale presented to Congress by Paul Wolfowitz, which was that the 'cost' of this invasion would be offset by oil flowing out of Iraq, obviously was wrong. What's the reward for getting it wrong? You get to run the World Bank of course!...Obviously cheaper oil was on the minds of the architects of this foray into a hotbed of religious rivalry otherwise Wolfowitz would not have made the remarks...What this administration really needs is oil at $100 per barrel, or even more...Then there is all the 'hoo-hah' about the nuclear issue, with Iran's leaders using the same approach -- a 'to hell with you, we can do what ever we like' approach. Now as far as Plan 'B' is concerned this activity by Iran's leaders could not be better orchestrated, even if Karl Rove himself was writing the Iranian president's script, while rising oil prices are now starting to hurt the US consumer and will continue to do so.How do you turn an unpopular war into a political victory? Why you do what politicians have done for the last hundred years, you offer a solution to a problem, one that affects the majority of the population where it hurts, in the pocket......Blame all rising prices on Iran, who are of course now saying that oil should be at least a $100 per barrel...What does this do to gold and silver prices? Well they, along with the other metals should keep going up and up. In a recent article in the Financial Times by Gareth Smyth in Tehran demand in Iran for gold coins has increased dramatically:Businessmen say the rush to gold reflects both growing tension over Iran's atomic activities and the destabilizing economic policies of fundamentalist president Mahmoud Ahnmadi-Nejad. "The direction reverses the years of (president Mohammed) Khatami and increases the role of the state, especially in allocating resources," says one. "It's more like communism than Islam and makes you think some of them want a siege economy ready for war."Now if the Iranians are buying physical metal with apparently good cause, then what about the rest of the inhabitants of the Gulf region? With massive increases in oil revenues from rising prices (150% since March of 03) coupled with increased instability, who would NOT be buying gold and gold coins?^---(visit url for von Braun's full text)---^R. osa104c (4/22/06; 16:43:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 143483) Choir loses FAITH http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm SNIP :"America has become more a debt 'junkie' - - than ever before with total debt of $44 trillion - - with the highest debt ratio in history. That's $147,312 per man, woman and child - - or $589,248 per family of 4, $44,312 more debt per family than last year.Last year debt increased $3.5 Trillion, 5 times more than GDP. Household debt soared 12%. 68% ($30 trillion) of this debt was created since 1990, a period primarily driven by debt instead of by productive activity. And, these numbers do not include unfunded pensions and medical promises." Well known information….preaching to the choir??….What if US begins posturing in such a position (default)WE began to lose FAITH in the $? ge (4/22/06; 15:06:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 143482) Turkish media reports (sorry, no links in English) * Turkish Army massing troops at the Iraq-Iran border to combat PKK (kurdish insurgency).* Rice: "We are sharing intelligence with Turkey against PKK".* Iran is mobilizing troops against PKK.* Syria is mobilizing troops against PKK.* It is rumoured that Turkish Army Headquarters shall be moved to Sýrnak (located just at the Syria-Iraq border, very near to Iranian border)Some columnists are suggesting that a Turkish-Iran war is coming. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 09:54:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 143481) How much is 900 divided by 160? 5 or 6? http://www.123jump.com/market-update/Gold-and-Central-Bank-Dollar-Holdings/17348/ Gold and Central Bank Dollar HoldingsLast Update: 9:41 PM EDT April 21 2006 SNIPCentral Banks around the world have decreased their gold holdings since the beginning of the decade. U.S. dollar volatility, persistent and growing trade and current account deficit in the U.S. may prompt Central Banks around the world to begin diversification of their holdings. The U.S. trade deficit is likely to reach above $900 billion by the year end. Total gold holding of the U.S. is only $160 billion. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 09:35:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 143480) Gata takes for granted Gata takes for granted 1. the existence currency marketS2. the existence of central banks3. the existence of a task for central banks4. the morality and necessity of democracyNobody ever elected the gold standard.see my earlier quote of Hayek's Confusion of language-paper. Gata is no advocate of gold. Gata is an advocate of government imposed laws, currency laws, central banking laws and democratic laws. Antitrust laws of course.10:24a ET Saturday, April 22, 2006Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:The Reuters story appended http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?here is 24 hours out ofdate but is notable for showing how both the centralbankers and the news media take for granted the rigging of currency markets -- indeed, how their very premise is that currency markets should be rigged, that central banks should work together butlargely surreptitiously to set all internationalfinancial values, the values of assets, the valueof the necessities of life, and the values of labor.This raises a question: Who elected THEM to runthe world?CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/TreasurerGold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 07:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 143479) From my own correspondent: gold euro should take over NOW http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N21242038 WHAT … if one would not allow a dollar devaluation, orrrrrrr demand (suggest) that the gold euro takes over!?They are maneuvering in all directions, but it is more than clear that there is no IMF-like solution in sight.IMF is a mere dollar-serving, debt-machine and nothing else.Note also that a Plaza devaluation (from the 1985 all times height) is no more possible. Thoreauly (4/22/06; 07:38:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 143478) The Real Cost of Imported Oil http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20030722-093718-6082r.htm We never would have gotten into this mess if the military and related costs of securing the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf had, from the get-go, been born by the consumer rather than by the taxpayer -- i.e., if the price at the pump reflected the actual cost rather than a nominal one -- as investment capital would long ago have been diverted to less costly alternatives. 968 (4/22/06; 07:36:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 143477) Statement by Mr. Wellink http://www.imf.org/External/spring/2006/imfc/statement/eng/nld.pdf Statement by Mr. Nout WellinkPresident Nederlandsche Bank, NetherlandsRepresenting the constituency consisting of Armenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Georgia, Israel, Republic of Macedonia, Moldova, the Netherlands, Romania, and Ukraine.SNIP :"The de facto dollar peg of oil exporters may also contribute to the build-up of imbalances, as it limits the role of the exchange rate as adjustment channel."----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the 'de facto' dollar peg of oil exporters is put in question here ????- why is Wellink representing US-protégé Israel ????? The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 07:34:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 143476) From my own correspondent: Gordon und Angela superstar??? What will all this old ladies talk of her Majesty's Chancellor of Exchequer, Gordon Brown, result in? What should the sand pit boys think of such nonsense? The West has transformed during 50 years the Middle East sand pit into a big slaughter house. And now the remaining Middle-Easterns have to pump more oil for the oil consuming western butchers Please, be serious.This is the environment the gold euro needs.At the end of the day, the question of the means of payment (the dollar) for the oil bill HAS to be raised.Hence, the statement of the Russian Finance minister HAHAAAAAA, Deutschland does nicht agree mit IMF...play a major role in foreign exchange guidance !!! .... IMF is merely seeking a new justification for itself...HAHAAAAAA The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 07:18:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 143475) From my own correspondent: IMF to US : TAX oil IMF to US : TAX oil-consumption !!! (IMF package)Menschen, then we're gonna have fun. Revolt against the whole Middle East policy … the debts this will cause … and now an oil tax on the oil they want to plunder (control).Get your Winchester out of the locker! ! Patriot act III! IMF (package) : SA + Russia >>> produce more oil !While they want to plunder Iraqi oil and now we have regime changes in Iran... Venezuela... Nigeria... etc...! OPEC : The oil consumers have always been concentrating on the financial earnings of oil (tax-revenues).Saudi said two years ago: If you think the oil price is too high … lower then the 80% of taxes which you levy on oil.Wait until some lunatic says that the freezing of the price of gold should end. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 07:08:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 143474) From my own correspondent: IMF Break-Up http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c2fa853a-d157-11da-a38b-0000779e2340.html There is no political WILL (whatever that may be) to arrive at a solution.Now even less than before.They are only talking about the distribution of votes without even trying to propose solutions.It would be blessing to the gold euro if the IMF would break upADDED BY THE INVISIBLE HANDFriedrich August von Hayek, "The confusion of language in political thought with some suggestions for remedying it", London, Institute of Economic Affairs, Occasional Paper 20, 1968p.9 introHomo non intelligendo fit omnia (G. Vico) – man has become all he is without understanding what happened-some facts are only known to some individualsp.21The substitution by Rousseau and Hegel of the term WILL (voluntas)for what older authors had described as OPINION (ratio)= constructivist rationalismOpinion became suspected because it was contrasted with incontrovertible knowledge of cause and effect and a growing tendency to discard all statement incapable of proofYet, the order of an Open Society and all modern civilisations rests largely on opinions which have been effective in producing such an order long before people knew why they held them and in as great measure it still rests on such beliefs.p. 22Much of the accumulated experience of the human race would fall outside what is described as "reason',if this concept is arbitrarily confined to positive knowledge of the rules of cause and effect which govern particular events in our environment.p. 22-23When ratio was contrasted with voluntas,ratio was the opinion about the permissibility or non-permissibility of kinds of conduct which voluntas indicated as the most obvious means of achieving a particular resultp. 24WILL always refers to particular actions serving particular ends,and the will ceases when the action is taken and the end (terminus) reached.But nobody can have a WILL in this sense concerning what shall happen in an unknown number of future instances. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 06:47:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 143473) From my own correspondent – MTM and pigeons How is it possible that the charlatans promoting paper-gold-products are the same people who are always speaking about all forms of dollar-paper-devaluation?Paper is paper and gold metal is metal. In a "crisis", you will not receive metal for paper, only more paper.In a "crisis" you will receive more paper for less metal.The big lie is being cultivated that one will receive gold metal for a gold mine or for Exchange Traded Funds (ETF) paper. This would occur through the intermediary of dollar-units which themselves devaluate always faster vis-à-vis gold metal. The financial industry is thereby trying to create the impression that the bookkeeping of its paper factory is being kept more or less in equilibrium. This is the big trick with the pigeon and that's why those giants in the know, in whose steps we are following, are only accumulating gold metal, the only perfect wealth which will compensate for the cosmic stockpiles of paper.The gold euro is also a paper-unit for accounting purposes … BUT …with a gold wealth in parallel as wealth reserve. The ECB/BIS has no gold mine stocks, nor ETF's in its reserves … but gold metal. What if the IMF will also mark to market (MTM) its gold reserves?Then gold will fly 100 times higher than it would do it only for the euro (100 times more dollar-units than â‚). By the same token, the euro will gain vis-à-vis the dollar. This explains why the dollar will never be able to MTM its gold reserves.This also explains why Her Majesty's Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, could only propose to MTM a small fraction of the IMF gold. This was then called revaluation of gold … PARTIAL revaluation! But this is then no gold-revaluation at the current market price, but at a price which they themselves arbitrarily determine.So, Boyz and Girlz, the MTM-concept is a time-bomb which one can stop for a short time in order to let it explode at the appropriate moment. And THIS is precisely what the ECB/BIS are intending to use in order to counter the dollar-system with its fixed gold regime.But people, they talk only about the weather.ADDED BY THE INVISIBLE HANDFrom the jacket of the late Harry Browne's book, "The Economic Time Bomb" New York, St. Martin's Press, 1989- One Wrong Move by President Bush Could Trigger a Financial Collapse - This time we enter the crises with the economy already burdened by federal deficits so large they could send interest rates and inflation to the stratosphere. This time we already see hundreds of banks and saving & loans failing each year – with thousands more barely holding on. This time the government can't solve any problem without making another one worse. So this time we have to be ready for anything.Thank You, Harry, for having introduced me to gold.I'll never forget our telephone conversation on September 03, 2001 your time, September 04 my time. The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 03:59:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 143472) incoming mail - source unknown SNIPFormer Helmut Schmidt cabinet member, 25-year German Parliamentarian and global intelligence expert Andreas Von Bülow says that the 9/11 attack was run by the highest levels of the US intelligence apparatus using WTC Building 7 as a command bunker which was later demolished in order to destroy the crime scene.Speaking to The Alex Jones Show on the GCN Radio Network, Von Bülow said that "the official story is so wrong, it must be an inside job." The Invisible Hand (4/22/06; 03:18:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 143471) Why don't they ever give inflation-adjusted gold high of 1980? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060421/bs_nm/energy_talks_dc_1 SNIPBut there are divisions over how to pull prices away from their inflation-adjusted high of above $80, touched in 1980, the year after the Iranian revolution. Consumers want more oil. Producers want to be sure investing in new fields will pay off.==BTW, why was it that gold and oil reached their peak in the same year? ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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