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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/22/2005 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Chris Powell (8/22/05; 23:51:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 135216) GATA's correspondence with Treasury Department MK, thanks for your thoughtful analysis of the Treasury Department's statement to GATA. Our correspondence with Treasury is meant for public use so please do with it whatever seems appropriate. I take some consolation from Treasury's declaration that EVERY financial instrument, and not just gold, silver, and mining shares but even thepipe-dreamiest technology stock and every 6-year-old's piggy bank, is potentially a target for this government of ours already contemplating going wildly out of control. The only option seems to be to get it back under control. A big job ahead for every citizen.CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/TreasurerGold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc. Smeagol (8/22/05; 23:51:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 135215) Sigh... ...okay, I'm done ranting. Perhaps I should look at things Another way. What will DISSUADE the USA, or other powers, from confiscation? What will PERSUADE them that it would not be wise, and that it is best to let things unwind? What can be done to EDUCATE them into common sense? Can it be done?S. Smeagol (8/22/05; 23:37:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 135214) Seeing red through gold-colored glasses (Smeagol mode still off)My apologies... when I get TICKED, my spelling quality may suffer. I was thinking of "highest" and "height of" at the same time. "Hightest", though, as in high-octane, does pun the current gas price irritation, also caused by THEM. Okay, I'm reaching...In the gold/economics/market/personal property arena, "confiscation" of anything is my THIRD RAIL.I toy around and experiment with high voltage as a hobby (among others) and while getting an unexpected jolt from a neon transformer won't kill me, it makes me want to pick up that transformer and throw it across the room (but I don't - I'm not the violent type, ask any of my friends)... it's just that some things REALLY get under my skin. THIEVERY UNDER COLOR OF LAW is one of them. I would rather throw what gold I have in the Sea than let free-spending THIEVES backed and immunized by the full faith and arms of the United States have it.They have "eaten out (your name here)'s substance" so many times before. How much more of this kind of behavior will Americans and the world put up with? IF they try to STEAL America's gold-wealth again, I say "Hang 'em high!" with a rope of gold (fume...fume...breathe slowly...count to ten...think peaceful thoughts...maybe a nice contemplative haiku will calm me down...). They suck our wealth-bloodwhile we faint on their tread-millsMay they choke on goldS. Smeagol (8/22/05; 22:26:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 135213) correction In my previous post,"confiscaton" = "info on possible confiscation."S. Smeagol (8/22/05; 22:24:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 135212) Alternatives... (Smeagol mode off)Thank you, Sir MK, for posting the confiscaton. It is an uncomfortable subject but it deserves its share of time on the Table alongside more pleasant matters. In my humble opinion, a confiscation order should be met by the people with silence, and no gold, on principles. In that time, those responsible for the mess deserve nothing but the hightest contempt, and hard time.I notice USAGOLD also sells gold chains. It would seem to me these would also be a good alternative because they are in no way connected with national 'money' gold - coins or bullion. And jewelry may be easier to leave the country with. Confiscation of jewelry has not been discussed as far as I know. Thoughts?Smeagol MK (8/22/05; 21:38:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 135211) For memo and more info. . . http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html This should get you to our information packet page. OvS (8/22/05; 21:05:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 135209) Gold-Confiscation MK. Thank you for thinking. OvS MK (8/22/05; 21:04:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 135208) Chris Powell: How You Can Survive a Potential Gold Confiscation http://www.usagold.com/analysis/confiscation.html The fact that the government retains the power to confiscate gold is well-known to clients of this firm and has been for some time. Gold ownership in the United States is a privilege, not a right, and as distasteful as that might seem, confiscation is a potential reality, like it or not, all prudent gold owners should incorporate into their thinking....For complete commentary, please visit the link provided above. Black Blade (8/22/05; 17:47:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 135204) The Simple Facts - "Sweet and Sour" Sorry, the title should have been:The Simple Facts - "Sweet and Sour"- Black Blade Black Blade (8/22/05; 17:30:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 135203) http://p100.ezboard.com/fpeakoilpetroleumandpreciousmetalsfrm10.showMessage?topicID=1630.topic http://p100.ezboard.com/fpeakoilpetroleumandpreciousmetalsfrm10.showMessage?topicID=1630.topic The Simple Facts - "Sweet and Sour"Dennis Erectus (aka Black Blade) August 22, 2005Snippit:He financial media continues to trot out alleged "energy experts" to tell investors that there is plenty of oil in inventory and that the commodity is grossly over priced. The excuses are varied but usually boil down to the same moronic arguments that energy is an unimportant commodity because it only represents a small portion of the Gross Domestic Product or is represented by less than 10% of the S&P 500 stock index. Another stupid argument is made consistently that there is an overhang of crude oil in inventory, and that inventory is greater than the previous year. I won't belabor the point of the importance or unimportance of energy. Just try to live in today's world without it. As far as the amount of energy as a component of the GDP or how much is represented in the S&P 500 as a reason for valuation is so stupid that I won't even waste anymore breath on this ridiculous contrivance. Instead I will simply "state the facts".Black Blade: Peak Oil is already here, or at least Peak Oil for the desired grade of the commodity. The higher demand and higher costs have not shown up in the twisted and convoluted BLS and Fed data - at least yet. Be assured that you want protection from the devatation about to steam roll over your investment portfolio. Better get at least a modest precious metals position soon - the sooner the better IMO. Our host here has the goods and we have the need! R Powell (8/22/05; 15:34:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 135202) Buffett and oil http://business.iafrica.com/news/474169.htm The link goes to a short article in which someone....someone...has assumed that Buffett believes that oil prices have peaked, no time-frame given, as he is reportedly on the verge of selling shares in a Chinese oil company. What does one do with huge profits from oil investments..? Maybe he'll add to his silver collection..? TownCrier (8/22/05; 15:12:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 135201) CB gesture of gold, symbolism http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-08/22/content_3389662.htm HEADLINE: Central bank donates special gold, silver coins to war memorialBEIJING, Aug. 22 (Xinhuanet) -- The People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, Monday presented a set of gold and silver coins marking the 60th anniversary of the War of Resistance Against the Japanese Aggression...The set, including a gold coin and a silver one, was issued by the People's Bank of China on August 15 to commemorate the victory of the Chinese People in their war against Japanese aggressors and the world's war against Fascists six decades ago.The serial number of the authentication certificate of the coins is 815, which was chosen to mark the special day of August 15, 1945, or the end of World War II.[The obverse of both coins are the same whereas the] reverse side of the gold coin has designs of Beijing-based Lugou Bridge, a pavilion and a tablet with words of the 60th anniversary of the victory of the War Against Japanese Aggression and the victory of the World Anti-Fascist War, while that of the silver coin bears the scene of mass celebration of the victory of the anti-Japanese war and the design of Baota Mountain in Yan'an.^----(from url)----^To be symbolically associated with gold, specifically, it is hard to conceive of a more fitting icon than a bridge.R. USAGOLD Daily Market Report (8/22/05; 14:54:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 135200) Page Update! http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.htmlThe Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.Monday Market ExcerptsAugust 22 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York bounced from a near two-week low to end higher in light trading on Monday, lifted by dollar weakness that increased the metal's allure for investors.COMEX December gold contracts rose 80 cents to $443.Gold has re-coupled with the euro's moves vs. the dollar in recent days and that relationship remained the key driver for the market at the start of the week, dealers said."The gold/euro correlation seems to be getting back in place," said Paul McLeod, vice president of precious metals at Commerzbank in New York."But I would add that the markets are very quiet. These are the dog days of August, and with a lack of any news story, we'll just probably drift along and follow the euro," he said.No major U.S. reports are due until Wednesday, when figures on durable goods orders are released. Markets also are awaiting a speech Friday by Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan.----(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---- Chris Powell (8/22/05; 13:33:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 135199) GATA press release on Treasury Department statement http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/3281 Treasury Department claims the authority to commandeer any financial instrument, not just gold and silver, in an "emergency." Goldilox (8/22/05; 12:46:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 135198) Use Taxes They're certainly not that unusual. When I was a practicing chemist in the "old days", we got 99.99% pure grain alcohol (labeled ethyl carbomol to keep the non-chemists from recognizing it) with exempt "laboratory use" tax stamps. We only broke the rules around the holidays, when they made incredibly powerful "screwdrivers". Lots of OJ was brought into the lab in December. Lab security always wondered who snuck in the hootch, as it was, of course, strictly prohibited. It was right there on the reagent shelf all the while!Actually, it's not much strangeer than different tax classifications of gold as "jewelry or money". TownCrier (08/22/05; 12:15:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 135197) Central bank reserves in transition -- thoughts to explain the flat yield-curve "conundrum" and gold http://www.usagold.com/analysis/strauss-20050819.html Here is a modified format that should slightly improve readability from Friday's presentation of this material.R. TownCrier (08/22/05; 11:16:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 135196) Gold refining and smelting giant looks abroad http://metalsplace.com/metalsnews/?a=1999 (Mining Weekly) -- South Africa's Rand Refinery Limited -- the world's biggest single-site gold refining and smelting complex -- is wooing gold producers and generators of smelter feedstock beyond South Africa in its ongoing and energetic pursuit of new business...While South Africa remains the world's biggest producer of newly-mined gold, volumes have fallen steadily in recent years, most recently as result of mine production cutbacks due to the strength of the rand and consequent weaker rand gold price....Kenny believes the same guarantees of quality service, competitive pricing, secure infrastructure and efficiently-managed logistics that have proved attractive to African producers will be as attractive to other producers internationally."We have had to satisfy our new clients that we have adequate financial arrangements in place with reputable institutions to pay them on delivery for their gold and that, technically, we are able to meet their particular refining requirements....Kenny stresses that distance, the management of logistics and security should not be deterrents to prospective international clients for either Rand Refinery's refining or smelting services."We have well-established relationships with South African Airways and other international airlines regarding the inward passage of dorČ and the outward passage of refined gold; and we tackle security through our own personnel and reputable security companies with international standing. Our own secure vault at Johannesburg International Airport also plays a pivotal role," he says.Rand Refinery makes much of its conferred credentials. It is one of 56 refineries worldwide on the prestigious London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) Good Delivery List, which is widely recognised as representing the 'de facto' standard for the quality of gold and silver bars. It is one of just five refineries approved by the LBMA as a good delivery referee, responsible for the testing of samples from existing and applicant good delivery refiners in support of the LBMA's good delivery system.Most recently, Rand Refinery was the first refinery in the world to achieve accreditation by the Dubai Metals and Commodities Centre in terms of its newly-launched Dubai Good Delivery Standard. Accreditation requires refineries to maintain strict standards of creditworthiness, financial strength, operational competence and superior production procedures.^----(from url)----^It is good to see an emphasis placed on both payments and upon security of the metal's quality, delivery and vaulting. By contrast, merchants and bankers of "paper gold" have only ever worried about whether the payments rolled in in an orderly fashion, and whether they could maintain the collective illusion that account statements and/or contracts were as good as the real thing.It is good, also, to see progression of the Dubai gold exchange. Although it is not mentioned here, I particularly like Dubai's emphasis on standardizing small gold bars as an alternative to the hefty 400 oz London Good Delivery bars. This hints at progressive thought and comprehension of the future physical gold market in which a profoundly higher market value will warrant smaller bars to foster widest possible liquidity among participants so as to facilitate a most reputable global benchmark of price discovery.R. Survivor (08/22/05; 10:29:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 135195) Conflict of Interest Not Unique to England Clink!: "but to charge different rates on the same commodity depending on what you use it for seems crazy."Survivor: Same thing in Canada, and also here in the U.S as far as I know. Farmers and other off-road users buy motor fuel much cheaper than folks who buy fuel that has been taxed for use on the public roads. In Canada the off-road fuel is dyed purple. I've been stopped at "fuel check" road blocks in rural areas. They siphon enough fuel from your tank to check the color. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (08/22/05; 10:21:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 135194) Especially for those who are taking their first step... http://www.usagold.com/gold/special/starter.html Gandalf the White (08/22/05; 09:12:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 135193) YES, Sir Goldilox ! The US$ looks like it is "SICK" and the YELLOW is starting to be "looking good" !(AND it shall be "looking good" far longer than just today).GET all the YELLOW that you may!(and get ready Sir Slingshot, to publish !!)TO THE MOON, Alice !<;-)--PS: Thanks to all for the GREAT postings.GW Goldilox (08/22/05; 08:35:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 135192) Double top http://charts-d.quote.com:443/1002980432830?User=demo&Pswd=demo&DataType=GIF&Symbol=DX00Y&Interval=10&Ht=600&Wd=800&Display=2&Study=MA&Param1=13&Param2=0&Param3=&FontSize=10 @ Gandalf,Looks like the double top signaled fading of the USDX after all. Maybe just enough gold pundits were warning of $ strength to "let it fall" for now. Goldilox (08/22/05; 08:29:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 135191) Ron Paul at the dinner table The media has made their mark. Most public mention of Dr. Paul's fiscally conservative ideas brings up the "Nut in Texas" epithets, as people have been brainwashed by Cheney's "deficits don't matter" drivel (as he wipes his chin and pockets a cool $million in annual Halliburton pension - no conflict of interest there, of course).When asked "How their own deficits are going", they usually reply, "Government is different!""Please don't confuse me with facts, kind sir - my politics are powerful enough to spend their way through any fiscal abuse!" Goldilox (08/22/05; 08:17:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 135190) Biodiesel I also saw a snip on one of the auto shop TV shows where they claimed to use recycled oil from the local fast food fryer, cutting their substrate costs down to their efforts to retrieve and filter the oil. Their enterprising efforts to obtain free substrate cut costs to below $0.50 per Gallon.A quick Google revealed a number of kit vendors on the internet.In the US, this violates no laws yet, as long as the fuel is NOT resold, as fuel taxes are imposed on the retail vendor.If it gains any popularity, I expect to see something similar to the home-brewing legislation battles of the 1970's. Clink! (08/22/05; 07:48:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 135189) Conflict of interests http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html I have been researching biodiesel since the topic came up at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago. I came across this article from the UK which is from two and a half years ago. I think you can get a number of points from this, not least being the inventiveness of the average Joe. What really disappointed me was the reaction of the Excise people to drivers who were, in their own small way, trying to reduce their country's reliance on imported oil :-SnipThe enterprising motorist was, so the reports suggested, running his diesel-engine motor on a mix of Asda cooking oil and standard fuel. At 42p a litre, the supermarket chain's oil is considerably cheaper than the 73p a litre that even a discounted retailer charges for diesel. The astonishing thing was it worked. Without any need to modify the engine, the motorist could run his car on the mix with no discernible difference in its performance. What's more, instead of diesel fumes, the engine gave off a rather pleasing odour - like frying time at the local chippy...........And if Asda's sales figures were anything to go by, unless he was running a fleet of buses across south Wales, the driver who had been pulled over by the emissions inspectors wasn't the only one. Wind your windows down in a Swansea traffic jam last spring, the rumour went, and the chances were you would think someone was having a barbecue. The local joke was that the whiff was particularly prevalent around the DVLC, the government's national car-licensing department, which is headquartered in the city. It was a nice irony, because, as the cooking-oil driver discovered when he was fined £500 and had his car impounded, the government is not amused by cheap alternative fuel. Diesel is relatively pricey because a large chunk of the cost is made up by duty. Cooking oil carries no such tax. But if it is put to use in a petrol tank, duty is due.End snip.Talk about a bizarre tax structure. I can understand that you might have different tax rates for different commodities, and even across similar materials (eg different tax rates between gas and diesel), but to charge different rates on the same commodity depending on what you use it for seems crazy. A good example of arbitrary government fiat !C! Clink! (08/22/05; 07:37:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 135188) Dr Paul in fine fettle http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2005/tst082205.htm Borrowing, Spending, Counterfeiting. You can't get straighter talk than that !C! mikal (08/22/05; 07:05:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 135187) Brimelow: No rest in days of summer http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B16F775FE%2D0DAB%2D41FD%2D9D5B%2DD6518D46BAC8%7D&;siteid=mktw No rest for the gold stalwarts - Peter Brimelow - August 22, 2005 - MarketWatch Topaz (8/22/05; 04:35:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 135186) 4 Days of the Condor. http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=GC&o=100/DX&a=D&z=610x300&d=LOW&b=LINE&st= A whiff of an uptick and a bit of positive alt au action should seal Golds short-term fate Today.I don't know when 451 will go slingshot but I feel you'll be back before weeks end ;-) ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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