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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/22/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) justamereBear (04/22/01; 23:18:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 52370) Shermag http://www.quotewatch.com/charts/futures/NYCE/DXY0-intraday.html Sorry, Should have included it. The index has levelled off since I posted. But still it is down about 3 cents in less than a week Mr Gresham (04/22/01; 23:09:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 52369) USD http://www.quotewatch.com/charts/futures/NYCE/DXY0-intraday.html Here's the Dollar chart. elevator guy (04/22/01; 23:02:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 52368) ESF and the gold markets From the Fed Open Market minutes, Reg Howe has shown that the ESF has been meddling in the gold markets. I distinctly remember one prominent poster here, who is a lot smarter than me about these things, and therefore I don't want to get into a pissing contest with him or her, but anyway, I distinctly remember that person saying that they did not think that the Fed was manipulating the gold markets. Someone that should know better.Why is this so important? It's only a small detail, and after all, even the best make mistakes. All true, so true. So why do I bring it up?Partly, to show that we should not trust any one person's opinion too much, and also to show that GATA is really on to something earth shaking. GATA has been doing all this for sometime now, with an army of two, and I think they will hit the giant in the forehead with a sharp stone. Other gold bugs keep some distance safely back, and call them misguided, wrong, "barking up the wrong tree", and basically use just about every excuse possible not to join them on the battlefield.Either they stay back to avoid paying the penalty of the wrath of the mighty Fed, should the stone not take the giant down to the ground, and the giant go about looking for those who wished it harm, Or, they stay back, because they wish not to stampede the herd, and thereby letting the joey six packs sleep, all the better to get their ducks in a row, getting ready for the changes to come, if and when they do come, by buying commodity gold at deeply discounted prices, with the hopes that commodity gold be increased in tradeable value as the dollar game runs its course. If the latter be true, then this type of gold bug is a shrewd observer of the course of fiat currencies, and extremely patient. I'd kind of like to see something happen in my lifetime,, something that I could profit off of. GATA shakes the tree, now, today, and the apples will fall all around. If they shake hard enough, maybe the troll the gaurds the apple tree will come out and eat them, or maybe the troll will offer them a basket of the finest tree-ripened apples to go away. What are we doing to promote truth? Well, in my case, very little, except to support GATA with my feeble words, by pointing out that they were right on about the ESF twisting the gold market.What little I know about these things I mostly learned here in this forum, and so I thank each and everyone who has shared their knowledge with thirsty travelers like me. ET (04/22/01; 21:54:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 52367) European Union http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2001-04-14&id=611 From the article; "Romans would argue that this is the real purpose of the proposed European army: to ensure the perpetuation of Brussels and its European empire by preventing defections from it. It is, of course, unlikely that it would be able to do any such thing, given that Europe will feel duty-bound to set an example to the rest of us by recruiting the sort of army that the Kinnocks of this word dream of, consisting largely of militarily under-represented groups — women, the disabled, lunatics, etc. "But if, like the Romans, the European empire targeted outsiders, it could, with proper British training, develop quite a useful army out of (say) some of the tougher illegal immigrants who might, as a result, feel strong loyalty to the ineffable miracle of Brussels for giving them their chance in the first place." ET (04/22/01; 21:47:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 52366) European Union http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000143789351982&rtmo=lvknoHSt&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/4/15/wshav15.html From the article;"IN the narrow side streets of Iesolo, a small Italian town just outside Venice, revolution is brewing among angry men in barbers' shops. "For well over two centuries, men of all ages in this northern community have enjoyed the daily luxury of a close shave and a chat about football with the occupant of the neighbouring chair. But, as from next month, a shave in Iesolo will never be the same again. According to European regulations, the traditional shaving brush, as used to liberally lather the morning or evening shadow, is unhygienic. "Until now, no one in Italy had taken any notice of the ruling. Last week, however, the leader of Iesolo town council, Daniele Bison, decided to take a stand. Before formally banning the use of the shaving brush, Mr Bison said: "I have taken the decision that Iesolo should conform to European norms." "The result has been uproar. Queues longer than ever before have formed outside the town's barbers' shops, as inhabitants gather for what might be their last "proper" shave in public. The barbers themselves are to appeal against Mr Bison's judgment at regional, national and even European level. Customers are refusing to be lathered by hand, as the new diktat demands." Shermag (04/22/01; 21:44:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 52365) j'Bear: US dollar index You got a link to the USD index? I dont know where to find it outside of regular US trading hours.TIA ET (04/22/01; 21:43:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 52364) European Union http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000143789351982&rtmo=asbasabL&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/3/16/nred16.html From the article;"Mrs Lea said: "It is simply not true that Europe is taking up our way of doing things. We are seeing feminist-driven, socialist ideas with absolutely no idea how the market works." The red tape coming from Brussels includes the maximum 48-hour working week, holidays for part-time workers, parental leave, a directive telling employees how to climb ladders, and now a "vibrations directive" restricting the number of hours a farmer may sit on his tractor. "Last year the EU passed two new anti-discrimination measures covering everything from race to age and disability that reverse the burden of evidence, putting the onus on employers to prove their innocence in court if accused of bias. They are expected to increase litigation costs and force firms to keep extensive employment records, adding to paperwork." justamereBear (04/22/01; 21:36:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 52363) Look at the USD index fall It has not been open long, but it is mostly straight down.j'Bear White Hills (04/22/01; 21:35:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 52362) Canuck #52356 According to the latest Credit Bubble Bulletin by Doug Noland what AG saw was massive Illiquidity in the system. to quote just one paragraph " So, we are left today with the terrible reality that the Great Credit Bubble Monster has now firmly taken control of the entire process. Importantly, the unfolding crisis has at this point reached the critical stage where monetary policy Has lost all flexibility. That such a point has been reached should not be understated. From this perspective , it is not surprising that credit markets have responded unenthusiatically to Wednesday's rate cut. We can now throw out the "playbook" of how central banking should operate. Disregard any thought the the Fed is now focused on the economy. And please discard the notion that inflation risk any longer even enters into the picture. It clearly does not. Definitely rid yourself of any blind faith that the Fed is intent on protecting the long-term purchasing power of our currency. Indeed, monetary policy has now clearly embarked on a new, perilous path". The article just about hits it on the head and reinforces my belief that when the housing market begins its downturn that we are going to discover the abuses and manipulation of the mortgage markets. It is going to be the savings and Loan crash all over again in spades. How true Another was when he said the people would discover that their wealth was not what they thought it to be. White Hills ET (04/22/01; 21:30:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 52361) FOA Hey FOA - thanks for your thoughts. You write in part;"This is the road ahead. A fiat no different from the dollar in function, yet a universe away in management. Awealth asset that also stands beside this money, yet has no modern label or official connection as money. In thisway modern society can circle the earth, to once again begin where we started. Having learned that the concept of wealth money and man's money were never the same. We shall see."I happen to know from history that your idea will fail. It will fail because there is no difference between wealth money and man's money, despite any forthcoming "new age" management. You see, FOA, markets can't be managed, and everytime it's tried, they fail. Yours will be no exception. You should read some Rothbard. You should know why peace hasn't come to pass, partner, for the same reason sound money hasn't come to pass. I would venture the two walk hand-in-hand, but on an entirely different trail than the one you describe. You should read some Mises. Regards. SHIFTY (04/22/01; 21:24:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 52360) Periodic Ponzi Update PPU http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm Nasdaq 2,163.41 + Dow 10,579.85 = 12,743.26 divide by two = 6,371.63 PonziUp 327.17 from last week.Sir RossL : Thank you for the link. :-)$hiftyPS I am going west tomorrow and will not be here for next weeks Ponzi.I may get out west just in time for the next "GOLD RUSH" !! Shermag (04/22/01; 21:24:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 52359) White Hills: ORO's post re Industry is destroyed at the source of money creation You will fin the post mentioned here:ORO (01/30/01; 14:43:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 46961)It was a "classic". I enjoyed it so much that I kept a note of it close at hand. Speaking of the master, where is ORO these days? I miss his venerable self.Yes you are right that it would be nice to search for these gems, but I hesitate to ask too much more of our good hosts. They already give us so much.Shermag Shermag (04/22/01; 21:11:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 52358) Canuck, Greenies Surprise Cut Yes indeed! You and I are among many that wonder what Greenspan knows that the rest of us have yet to discover. Is ther a large bank or hedge fund at the edge? Are we yet again on the verge of a siezing up of credit markets? Is the economy going into the crapper in a hurry?When I saw the stock market reaction, my first thought was that these buyers have got it wrong. This move was most likely bad news, not reason to buy.ShermagP.S. I believe rates were cut by half a percent in every rate cut this year, including the last. JMB (04/22/01; 21:09:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 52357) CANUCK Check out today's The Daily Reckoning. They feel it's the USA's reduction of imports which is reflected in a $6 Billion decline in the Current Account Deficit. It makes sense, IMO. BTW, Bill Bonner is the weekday author...I think he's very amusing. Canuck (4/22/01; 20:29:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 52356) Greenspan's surprise rate cut last week http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/hamilton042301.html Adam Hamilton latest; Greenspan panicking, P/E's will rise due to lower revenues and Intel in trouble.I am trying to figure something out. Approximately 4 weeks ago Greenspan opted to lower rates by a quarter and suddenly, after this short interval an 'emergency' cut of a half was required. What horrible event has transpired in the last week, what is Greenie hiding? Journeyman (4/22/01; 20:16:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 52355) The BIG-One: Next Act? @ALL http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25507-2001Apr16.html Keep your eye on Argentina & Brazil this week!Peru's Bad Memory 2001 The Washington Post CompanyTuesday, April 17, 2001; Page A16 THIS WEEK'S Summit of the Americas in Quebec is meant tofocus on a far-reaching leap toward economic integration over thenext decade. But President Bush and the attending heads of statefrom Canada and Latin America might also usefully spend some timethinking about how to avoid a disastrous slide into the economicpast. That could happen not in years but within months, as anumber of weak Latin American governments struggle to cope withan economic downturn, compounded by growing political and popularresistance to the policies of free markets and free trade. The trouble is brewing in Argentina, which is in danger ofdefaulting on one of the developing world's largest foreigndebts, and in Brazil, which has seen the value of its currencydrop by more than 10 percent since the begining of the year. Insome ways, however, the most telling struggle is underway inPeru, where a hard-fought presidential election runoff may decidewhether the destructive economic populism of Latin America'spast, already reborn in Venezuela, makes a full-blown comeback. The rest of the article is about Peru's coming election -- withan anti-socialist, pro fascist spin.Regards,Journeyman Al Fulchino (4/22/01; 19:51:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 52354) search Not an expert on the subject, but if another box was added to the "Password", "Subject" and "Link" and this box was labeled "Keywords" and will be filled out by the author. This would enable easy searches, yes? justamereBear (4/22/01; 19:26:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 52353) Shermag 52337 Peter Asher 52336 ShermagAn interesting train of thought, and entirely predictable. What amazes me is how so few bother to predict. I thought predicting the future of a company by investing in one thing or another was about predicting. Does not seem so. More about wishful thinking, I suspect. I wonder when the general populace will wake up to the next link in the chain of events?Peter AsherRight on, Bro' Right on.j'Bear White Hills (4/22/01; 18:47:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 52352) Search Engine & various I agree with the various posters on the value of having the Forum Archives being able to be searched at least by subject or even poster. I consider this forum and its content to be a treasure of news, facts, opinions and insights into the economic world we all live in. The fact also that in this one forum such genus comes together to focus basically on gold and its future in the coming crisis in the the Worlds economy. There are so many posts that I have read on this forum on different subjects that later on have meaning on something current that I am reading and can't quite remember. An example would be a Post by the esteemed ORO in which he fairly, briefly and clearly explained the model wereas Industry is destroyed at the point of money creation. I have looked but couldn't find this Post. A search engine would be wonderful and I also would like to pay my fair share so to speak by supporting this forum with future business SOON!! We all are happy to see MK prosper as we entend to do, White Hills Journeyman (4/22/01; 17:30:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 52351) Of search engines & forgotten comrades @ALL Sir Randy, MK, & To Whom It May Concern:In addition to the kind efforts and support from the CentennialMetals folks, there is another prominent but thus-far un-sunggroup (at least in this discussion) that makes huge freedonations to the continuance of the forum here.At least those at USAGOLD have a financial interest in keepingthe forum lights on -- it brings in customers, or at least Ibeleive Sir Randy said as much a few months back. We posters gainno such advantage from our efforts, and many put in very longuncompensated hours indeed to keep something useful on the racksin the castle's reading room - - - so there's something for theRound Table staff to keep the lights on for.Now those of you who have followed my posts a little - - allthree of you - - know that far from begrudging USAGOLD profitsfrom the "Round Table" enterprise, I wish them VERY well indeed!However in terms of the SEARCH facility I think, while as TGsuggests, it might make a great "value added" addition toUSAGOLD's business plan, 1. it would involve essentially a one-time effort, 2. the folks who take so much time and effort topost here would do a better job of it if they could search - - -and it would be a slap in the face if we were denied access, 3.we have a volunteer (SEE AEL 04/20/01; 17:57:02MT - usagold.commsg#: 52278) 4. As the Archives grow by hundreds of K per day,it'll only get harder as time passes. 5. Perhaps it's notnecessary to break each day's posts down into individual files?Regards,JourneymanP.S. Sir Randy, this isn't to imply that you should be impressedinto more free mule-like labor, but a search facility would bemuch appreciated - - - and well used! megatron (4/22/01; 16:08:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 52350) Silver clarification With regards to the silver 'debate', it would help if posters would apply the word 'traders' or 'investors' to their 'opinions' about future prices/value. As a trader I COULD NOT CARE LESS whether silver is a 'monetary' metal or a porkbelly or a conch shell. My sole motivation is capital gains. If that requires EXTREMELY quick timing to sell or what then so be it. I DONT CARE. Just as I didnt care when I sold my 'NON MONETARY' palladium stocks last year for 500% gain. If someone wants to buy something to sit on(long) they are an investor, otherwise be prepared to make quick, unemotional buy/sell decisions, ones that do not include retarded 'designations' like 'monetary metal'. Mr Gresham (4/22/01; 15:53:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 52349) Bundesbank http://www.bundesbank.de/index_e.html Here's their site. Most reports seem to be in .pdf, and I've got to get over to another machine later to read those Acrobat docs. Is there a German match for the "West Point Story"? Happy hunting! CoBra(too) (4/22/01; 15:21:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 52348) ESF-BUBA Gold Swaps? As it seems Reg's and GATA's findings can be substantiated - and I fiddled through the BuBa's site - and came up with the same conclusions. What a nightmare for the official monetary authorities to explain these deficiencies - as to the question - Who has the GOLD? ... May these off-(ici)als live in interesting times... As we do - cb2 Tree in the Forest (4/22/01; 14:10:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 52347) (No Subject) "If the American people ever allow banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied"President Thomas Jefferson Tree in the Forest (4/22/01; 14:05:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 52346) Exchanging private money for public money I have twice attempted to exchange private money for public money. Once I went into a local bank and attempted to exchange Federal Reserve Notes for United States Notes. I also tried this at The Federal Reserve in New York. The response in both cases was the same, "Duuhhh?" The use of the private money system is no longer voluntary in case anyone had any doubts. Draw your own conclusions vis a vis the legal ramifications of this. Mr Gresham (4/22/01; 14:01:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 52345) Book 'em, Dan-o! "That's the first real break in the dam that shows the game in play. Not exactly as it was explained, but close (grin)." Oooo-ooo-ooo -- I _love_ this stuff! auspec (4/22/01; 13:59:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 52344) Hey Gold.... What Ya Been Up to The Last Two Years?? Crescendo Will write this on the run because of family computer turf wars {term paper}.The gold market pressure is building fairly similar to two years ago just before the BoE took a psychological sledge hammer to the market as $290 was being threatened. This has been a most enlightening 2 years so I thought it might be good to look back on them in perspective.First, what have the gold suppressors accomplished in this period of time??-They've knocked gold down $25, but utterly failed to deliver a knockout punch that would allow them to see $200 POG. These guys only apparently have rabbit punches and we will NEVER leave our feet except to jump quite high in victory exhillaration.-They've done NOTHING to solve the under{LYING} structural and desperate short position that threatens those nearest and dearest to them. Oh my!-They've fleeced Kuwaiit, Sri Lanka, Ecuador and God only knows who else out of their national treasures. Thereby delaying the inevitable at least these two years. Congratulations cabal.-They've kept the banana from going totally splitzophrenic with Trail Guide's "identity crisis". The sucker is starting to fermint however.-They've picked up gold in the ground from the various scavage hunts taken in the name of their favotite controlled mining entities, Buttock Gold and the like.That's about as much credit as I can reasonably give them as I have no way of knowing how many judges or politicians they've "pocketed" during this time period. Sorry.NOW, what have WE accomplished during this time period since the BoE blindside??-First and foremost, how about TWO YEARS of continued ACCUMULATION of physical?? A lifetime's thanks for that guys! Not bad for starters and the list could actually end there! But no........- The ESF and Treasury have been exposed. The Truman show starring Rubin and wjc at the helm of the Titanic. The DNA or Bill Murphy's "blue dress" have surfaced and the finger points at them {can you see it, or better yet participate?}.-The genius' of Reg Howe, James Turk, Frank Veneroso, GATA, and the entire internet freedom fighters have dissolved their shrouded mysteries. Major kudos to this fine site!-The GATA South African Conference is set to spread the word. The mining companies are slowly but surely 'segregating' so as to identify the true friends of 'monetary value gold'.-Most of the culprits have been identified so we now know our enemies MUCH better. GS, JPM, Chase, Barrick, etc.-They are under such close scrutiny that foul-ups are inevitable- for example the notes regarding the gold swaps from FOMC meetings that Reg Howe found. Also the reclassification of the US gold reserves. Can you say microscope??-Senators and Congressmen have been put on notice that all is not well in the gold market. Some are even sincerely interested and concerned.-The US and London are simply creating more and more enemies around the world as their fraud is found out.-The Power Elite have tried to control the world for at least 800 years according to Robert chapman and his Intl Forecaster. Someone must not be on their side.-There have been and always will be men, women, as well as {mining} companies that will be willing to take the risks in doing what is right. The greatness of the human spirit comes through regardless of the odds.-The truth rings free on the internet, and much like Black Blade's energy predictions coming to fruition so will the predicted unshackling of gold soon come to pass. Yes, Cavan man, the word is spreading quickly in our niche market. What we learn and share on these sites is EXTREMELY important as more and more people turn out the blather of the elitist controlled media. We are the 'smart money' leading the way in this field and others will follow sooner or later. I'm betting on it!-The worthlessness of WGC and GFMS are readily apparent. CFTC can now be seen as the lackey it is. TOCOM and COMEX have blackened eyes.-Platinum and palladium have broken free. So has natural gas and many commodities soon to follow.-In these two years the Euro has come of age is now shaving a fairly good crop of whiskers, muscular development is quite apparent. They have utterly failed to stunt the Euro's growth and now he's ready for a little adult action!-They failed to unwind the shorts or reach $200 POG. Their all-or-nothing strategy will end as all of gold's previous battles have ended..... victory for gold. The fuse has burned an additional 2 years towards the powder keg. They are going to have to release some pressure SOON!It may not feel like it, but in retrospect of the last two years, WE are in control of this market. We have the economic principles of S/D working on our behalf. The 2 year score--------- We have kicked their butts!Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it for now.Get it! BH (4/22/01; 13:53:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 52343) TRAIL GUIDE---ESF/Bundesbank----- Sir Trail Guide, wat is your take on the Howe/Turk findings concerning the possible ESF/Bundesbank deal + Bundesbank lendings? Could its vaults really be empty?? What would the effects on Gold/the Euro be? For me as a Eurolander, it is a dramatic development and I am extremely interestet in your comments, which would be greatly appreciatet. Trail Guide (4/22/01; 13:43:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 52342) Note Trail Guide (04/21/01; 23:21:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 52326)CommentAll, I made a blunder in this post (above)when addressing it to Elwood. Actually it was to ET, who was commenting to Elwood. But, I suspect most of you were able to read through that mistake (smile).I have a large function to attend now and cannot comment on the next series of points from you. Even though they make a good connection for me to carry the discussion right into the West Point business. That's the first real break in the dam that shows the game in play. Not exactly as it was explained, but close (grin). Mr. G,,,, Elwood,,,,, others, I will comment later.ThanksTrailGuide Tree in the Forest (4/22/01; 13:42:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 52341) The Commercial Credit System THE COMMERCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM When Congress borrows money on the credit of the United States, bonds are thus legislated into existence and deposited as credit entries in Federal Reserve banks. United States bonds, bills and notes constitute money as affirmed by the Supreme Court (Legal Tender Cases, 110 U.S. 421), and this money when deposited with the Fed becomes collateral from whence the Treasury may write checks against the credit thus created in its account (12 USC 391). For example, suppose Congress appropriates an expenditure of $1 billion. To finance the appropriation Congress creates the $1 billion worth of bonds out of thin air and deposits it with the privately owned Federal Reserve System. Upon receiving the bonds, the Fed credits $1 billion to the Treasury's checking account, holding the deposited bonds as collateral. When the United States deposits its bonds with the Federal Reserve System, private credit is extended to the Treasury by the Fed. Under its power to borrow money, Congress is authorized by the Constitution to contract debt, and whenever something is borrowed it must be returned. When Congress spends the contracted private credit, each use of credit is debt which must be returned to the lender or Fed. Since Congress authorizes the expenditure of this private credit, the United States incurs the primary obligation to return the borrowed credit, creating a National Debt which results when credit is not returned.However, if anyone else accepts this private credit and uses it to purchase goods and services, the user voluntarily incurs the obligation requiring him to make a return of income whereby a portion of the income is collected by the IRS and delivered to the Federal Reserve banksters. Actually the federal income tax imparts two separate obligations: the obligation to file a return and the obligation to abide by the Internal Revenue Code.The obligation to make a return of income for using private credit is recognized in law as an irrecusable obligation, which according to 'Bouvier's Law Dictionary' (1914 ed.), is "a term used to indicate a certain class of contractual obligations recognized by the law which are imposed upon a person without his consent and without regard to any act of his own." This is distinguished from a recusable obligation which, according to Bouvier, arises from a voluntary act by which one incurs the obligation imposed by the operation of law. The voluntary use of private credit is the condition precedent which imposes the irrecusable obligation to file a tax return. If private credit is not used or rejected, then the operation of law which imposes the irrecusable obligation lies dormant and cannot apply. In 'Brushaber v. Union Pacific RR Co.' 240 U.S. 1 (1916) the Supreme Court affirmed that the federal income tax is in the class of indirect taxes, which include duties and excises. The personal income tax arises from a duty -- i.e., charge or fee -- which is voluntarily incurred and subject to the rule of uniformity. A charge is a duty or obligation, binding upon him who enters into it, which may be removed or taken away by a discharge (performance): 'Bouvier', p. 459. Our federal personal income tax is not really a tax inthe ordinary sense of the word but rather a burden or obligation which the taxpayer voluntarily assumes, and the burden of the tax falls upon those who voluntarily use private credit. Simply stated the tax imposed is a chargeor fee upon the use of private credit where the amount of private credit used measures the pecuniary obligation.The personal income tax provision of the Internal Revenue Code is private law rather than public law. "A private law is one which is confined to particular individuals, associations, or corporations": 50 Am.Jur. 12, p.28. In the instant case the revenue code pertains to taxpayers. A private law can be enforced by a court of competent jurisdiction when statutes for its enforcement are enacted: 20 Am.Jur. 33, pgs. 58, 59. The distinction between public and private acts is not always sharply defined when published statutes are printed in their final form: Case v. Kelly, 133 U.S. 21 (1890). Statutes creating corporations are private acts: 20 Am.Jur. 35, p. 60. In this connection, the Federal Reserve Act is private law. Federal Reserve banks derive their existence and corporate power from the Federal Reserve Act: Armano v. Federal Reserve Bank, 468 F.Supp. 674 (1979). A private act may be published as a public law when the general public is afforded the opportunity of participating in the operation of the private law.The Internal Revenue Code is an example of private law which does not exclude the voluntary participation of the general public. Had the Internal Revenue Code been written as substantive public law, the code would be repugnant to the Constitution, since no one could be compelled to file a return and thereby become a witness against himself. Under the fifty titles listed on the preface page of the United States Code, the Internal Revenue Code (26 USC) is listed as having not been enacted as substantive public law, conceding that the Internal Revenue Code is private law. Bouvier declares that private law "relates to private matters which do not concern the public at large."It is the voluntary use of private credit which imposes upon the user the quasi contractual or implied obligation to make a return of income. In 'Pollock v. Farmer's Loan & Trust Co.' 158 U.S. 601 (1895) the Supreme Court had declared the income tax of 1894 to be repugnant to the Constitution, holding that taxation of rents, wages and salaries must conform to the rule of apportionment. However, when this decision was rendered, there was no privately owned central bank issuing private credit and currency but rather public money in the form of legal tender notes and coins of the United States circulated. Public money is the lawful money of the United States which the Constitution authorizes Congress to issue, conferring a property right, whereas the private credit issued by the Fed is neither money nor property, permitting the user an equitable interest but denying allodial title. Today, we have two competing monetary systems. The Federal Reserve System with its private credit and currency, and the public money system consisting of legal tender United States notes and coins. One could use the public money system, paying all bills with coins and United States notes (if the notes can be obtained), or one could voluntarily use the private credit system and thereby incur the obligation to make a return of income. Under 26 USC 7609 the IRS has carte blanche authority to summon and investigate bank records for the purpose of determining tax liabilities or discovering unknown taxpayers: 'United States v. Berg' 636 F.2d 203 (1980). If an investigation of bank records discloses an excess of $1000 in deposits in a single year, the IRS may accept this as prima facie evidence that the account holder uses private credit and is therefore a person obligated to make a return of income. Anyone who uses private credit -- e.g., bank accounts, credit cards, mortgages, etc. -- voluntarily plugs himself into the system and obligates himself to file. A taxpayer is allowed to claim a $1000 personal deduction when filing his return. The average taxpayer in the course of a year uses United States coins in vending machines, parking meters, small change, etc., and this public money must be deducted when computing the charge for using private credit. On June 5, 1933, the day of infamy arrived. Congress on that date enacted House Joint Resolution 192, which provided that the people convert or turn in their gold coins in exchange for Federal Reserve notes. Through the operation of law, H.J.R. 192 took us off the gold standard and placed us on the dollar standard where the dollar could be manipulated by private interests for their self-serving benefit. By this single act the people and their wealth were delivered to the bankers. When gold coinage was thus pulled out of circulation, large denomination Federal Reserve notes were issued to fill the void. As a consequence the public money supply in circulation was greatly diminished, and the debt-laden private credit of the Fed gained supremacy.This action made private individuals who had been previously exempt from federal income taxes now liable for them, since the general public began consuming and using large amounts of private credit. Notice all the case law prior to 1933 which affirms that income is a profit or gain which arises from a government granted privilege. After 1933, however, the case law no longer emphatically declares that income is exclusively corporate profit or that it arises from a privilege. So, what changed? Two years after H.J.R. 192, Congress passed the Social Security Act, which the Supreme Court upheld as a valid act imposing a valid income tax: 'Charles C. Steward Mach. Co. v, Davis' 301 U.S. 548 (1937). It is no accident that the United States is without a dollar unit coin. In recent years the Eisenhower dollar coin received widespread acceptance, but the Treasury minted them in limited number which encouraged hoarding. This same fate befell the Kennedy half dollars, which circulated as silver sandwiched clads between 1965-1969 and were hoarded for their intrinsic value and not spent. Next came the Susan B. Anthony dollar, an awkward coin which was instantly rejected as planned. The remaining unit is the privately issuedFederal Reserve note unit dollar with no viable competitors. Back in 1935 the Fed had persuaded the Treasury to discontinue minting silver dollars because the public preferred them over dollar bills. That the public money system has become awkward, discouraging its use, is no accident. It was planned that way. A major purpose behind the 16th Amendment was to give Congress authority to enforce private law collections of revenue. Congress had the plenary power to collect income taxes arising from government granted privileges long before the 16th Amendment was ratified, and the amendment was unnecessary, except to give Congress the added power to enforce collections under private law: i.e., income from whatever source. So, the Fed got its amendment and itsprivate income tax, which is a banker's dream but a nightmare for everyone else. Through the combined operation of the Fed and H.J.R. 192, the United States pays exorbitant interest whenever it uses its own money deposited with the Fed, and the people pay outrageous income taxes for the privilege of living and working in their own country, robbed of their wealth and separated from their rights, laboring under a tax system written by a cabal of loan shark bankers and rubber stamped by a spineless Congress. Congress has the power to abolish the Federal Reserve System and thus destroy the private credit system. However, the people have it within their power to strip the Fed of its powers, rescind private credit and get the bankers to pay off the National Debt should Congress fail to act. The key to all this is 12 USC 411, which declares that Federal Reserve notes shall be redeemed in lawful money at any Federal Reserve bank. Lawful money is defined as all the coins, notes, bills, bonds and securities of the United States: 'Julliard v. Greenman' 110 U.S. 421, 448 (1884); whereas public money is the lawful money declared by Congress as a legal tender for debts (31 USC 5103); 524 F.2d 629 (1974).Anyone can present Federal Reserve notes to any Federal Reserve bank and demand redemption in public money -- i.e., legal tender United States notes and coins. A Federal Reserve note is a fixed obligation or evidence of indebtedness which pledges redemption (12 USC 411) in public money to the note holder. The Fed maintains a ready supply of United States notes in hundred dollar denominations for redemption purposes should it be required, and coins are available to satisfy claims for smaller amounts. However, should the general public decide to redeem large amounts of private credit for public money, a financial melt-down within the Fed would quickly occur.The process works like this. Suppose $1000 in Federal Reserve notes are presented for redemption in public money. To raise $1000 in public money the Fed must surrender U.S. Bonds in that amount to the Treasury in exchange for the public money demanded (assuming that the Fed had no public money on hand). In so doing $1000 of the National Debt would be paid off by the Fed and thus canceled. Can you imagine the result if large amounts of Federal Reserve notes were redeemed on a regular, ongoing basis? Private credit would be withdrawn from circulation and replaced with public money, and with each turning of the screw the Fed would be obliged to pay off more of the National Debt.Should the Fed refuse to redeem its notes in public money, then the fiction that private credit is used voluntarily would become unsustainable. If the use of private credit becomes compulsory, then the obligation to make a return of income is voided. If the Fed is under no obligation to redeem its notes, then no one has an obligation to make a return of income. It is that simple! Federal Reserve notes are not money and cannot be tendered when money is demanded: 105 So. 305 (1925). Moreover, the Ninth Circuit rejected the argument that a $50 Federal Reserve note be redeemed in gold or silver coin after specie coinage had been rescinded but upheld the right of the note holder to redeem his note in current public money (31 USC 392; rev., 5103): 524 F.2d 629 (1974); 12 USC 411. It would be advantageous to close out all bank accounts, acquire a home safe, settle all debts in cash with public money and use U.S. postal money orders for remittances. Whenever a check is received, present it to the bank of issue and demand cash in public money. This will place banks in a vulnerable position, forcing them to draw off their assets. Through their insatiable greed, bankers have over extended, making banks quite illiquid. Should the people suddenly demand public money for their deposits and for checks received, many banks will collapse and be foreclosed by those demanding public money.Banks by their very nature are citadels of usury and sin, and the most patriotic service one could perform is to obligate bankers to redeem private credit. When the first Federal Reserve note is presented to the Fed for redemption, the process of ousting the private credit system will commence and will not end until the Fed and the banking system nurtured by it collapse. Coins comprise less than five percent of the currency, and current law limits the amount of United States notes in circulation to $300 million (31 USC 5115).The private credit system is exceedingly over extended compared with the supply of public money, and a small minority working in concert can easily collapse the private credit system and oust the Fed by demanding redemption of private credit. If the Fed disappeared tomorrow, income taxes on wages and salaries would vanish with it. Moreover, the States are precluded from taxing United States notes: 4 Wheat. 316. According to Bouvier, public money is the money which Congress can tax for public purposes mandated by the Constitution. Private credit when collected in revenue can fund programs and be spent for purposes not cognizable by the Constitution. We have in effect two competing governments: the United States Government and the Federal Government. The first is the government of the people, whereas the Federal Government is founded upon private law and funded by private credit. What we really have is private government. Federal agencies and activities funded by the private credit system include Social Security, bail out loans to bankers via the IMF, bail out loans to Chrysler, loans to students, FDIC, FBI, supporting the U.N., foreign aid, funding undeclared wars, etc., all of which would be unsustainable if funded by taxes raised pursuant to the Constitution. The personal income tax is not a true tax but rather an obligation or burden which is voluntarily assumed, since revenue is raised through voluntary contributions and can be spent for purposes unknown to the Constitution. Notice how the IRS declares in its publications that everyone is expected to contribute his fair share. True taxes must be spent for public purposes which the Constitution recognizes. Taxation for the purpose of giving or loaning money to private business enterprises and individuals is illegal: 15 Am.Rep. 39; Cooley, 'Prin. Const. Law', ch. IV. Revenue derived from the federal income tax goes into a private slush fund raised from voluntary contributions, and Congress is not restricted by the Constitution when spending or disbursing the proceeds from this private fund. It is incorrect to say that the personal federal income tax is unconstitutional, since the tax code is private law and resides outside the Constitution. The Internal Revenue Code is non-constitutional because it enforces an obligation which is voluntarily incurred through an act of the individual who binds himself. Fighting the Internal Revenue Code on constitutional grounds is wasted energy. The way to bring it all down is to attack the Federal Reserve System and its banking cohorts by demanding that private credit be redeemed, or by convincing Congress to abolish the Fed. Never forget that private credit is funding the destruction of our country. [Reprinted from `Freedom League', Sept/Oct 1984] Gandalf the White (4/22/01; 13:12:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 52340) More Golden Gifts Bangkok Post Revered monk hands over gold, cash to boost reserves -- Stresses need for personal sacrificeby Kosol Satithamajit Revered monk Luangta Maha Bua handed 1,025 kg of gold and US$1 million donated by the public to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra at Sanam Luang yesterday. This brings total cash donations to $5,278,000 and gold to 2,062 kg handed over by the monk. The abbot of Wat Pa Ban Tad in Udon Thani started his campaign to replenish the foreign reserves after the financial crisis hit the country in 1997.The presentation was witnessed by thousands of people, including the monk's followers who arrived in 50 buses at the Royal Plaza in the morning before marching to Sanam Luang. The donated gold bullion was shown to the public amid heavy police protection.In a special ceremony presided over by Her Royal Highness Princess Chulabhorn, Luangta Maha Bua gave a two-hour sermon in which he stressed the importance of sacrifice for the nation's survival. Thongkon Wongsamut, a key follower, said Luangta Maha Bua trusted Mr Thaksin to look after the donations because the prime minister was "trustworthy", judging from the fact that he had received overwhelming public support to lead the country. Mr Thongkon said the followers would let the government decide where to store the donations, but would interfere if the Bank of Thailand defied calls by donors that the cash and gold must be used to strengthen national reserves. Mr Thongkon led a series of protests against the Chuan Leekpai government after reports that some of the donations would be used to offset losses in the Financial Institutions Development Fund overseen by the central bank.Deputy Finance Minister Varathep Ratanakorn said the government would consult the monk and his followers on how to use the money.A new round of fund-raising began right after the ceremony ended. The prime minister donated 3kg of gold and Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh 100,000 baht in cash.==========This GOLDEN Monk has tried to give the National RESERVES the gold, but the "politicals" just keep changing it into FAIT !!<;-( Tree in the Forest (4/22/01; 13:06:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 52339) A long post It's a slow Sunday and I would like to take this opportunity to make a long post of an essay I discovered. Some of you may have seen this already but most of you probably have not. I have never seen it posted here. It explains the legal underpinnings of the Federal Reserve and the IRS and discusses the legal nature of our monetary system. It's quite interesting and I think very important to read. If I can't get it in with one post, I'll post the end separately. Enjoy. Netking (4/22/01; 12:59:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 52338) JMB (Silver) JMB(52332)You say Sir;"I will trade 1 ounce of Gold for 100 ounces of Silver"You & me both brother! The problem with orators & market theory is that sometimes it's just that! We will see what we will see. Shermag (4/22/01; 11:33:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 52337) Milk Economics and the California Producer I recently had an interesting conversation with a supplier to Wisconsin's dairy farmers. He contends that the majority of Minnesota's milk comes from California. Their extremely suitable climate, coupled with historically low energy costs associated with production and transport of their product has squeezed out the less efficient nearby Wisconsin dairy farmer.Now take a look at a map of continental US. It becomes obvious that increased transport energy costs tip the balance back toward the favor of the Wisconsin farmer. Add to this the electrical problems of California, which are soon to be soaring electricity costs, and we have the making of a major shift in the economics of this industry against the California producer.Not only do we have added costs to be passed on to consumers, with inflationary implications. We have many producers uncompetitive with less distant sources. This will likely result in a contraction of the California milk production, with the attendant pain of rationalization that all producers there will experience. This will be born over years as Wisconsin producers respond to the opportunity, and capitalize a production increase.I raise this issue as an example of how rising energy costs alter the competitive landscape of this and countless other industries. A view of the huge number of trucks on the road today, and some insight on their destinations, highlights how pervasive the transport of goods over long distances has become. This implies another impetus to painful restructuring and loss for a large swath of the North American economy.Shermag Peter Asher (4/22/01; 11:17:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 52336) Ants hanging it out to dry Saving electricity by reverting to clothslines is seperating the California ants from the grasshoppers. Snippets from this mornings SF Chronicle:Homeowners associations are up in arms over "unsightly" displays of undergarments. -- "The clothsline is shunned for looking low rent." -- "It's akin to graffity in you neighborhood," said president of the California Association of Homeowners Associations. The sight of damp dungerees could drop property values 15%" ----Hardware store in Berkeley has run on clothslines, "As soon as they come in, they're gone.""On a hot afternoon this summer, Californians are expected to use 1,0000 megawatts of electricity to dry their clothes - while burning 975 megawatts to power airconditioners,---Governor's office is being asked to take a standon behalf of clothslines! Condensed from article by Joe Garfoli -Jigarofoli@sfchronicle.com Elwood (4/22/01; 11:17:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 52335) Trail Guide Thank you for responding to my questions. I enjoy immensely our hikes, and I look forward to each one.You write:-------We never intend to have two moneys. The concept is better seen as the Euro and a wealth reserve. Still, to defend against your thrust, what do we have now? Travel the world, my friend and mingle in the world of currency. In almost every country of the planet there are several prices for ever good sold! All depending on what nations currency you choose to use. Today's system is working with perhaps hundreds of moneys!----------Sir, please don't take this in the wrong way (it's meant rhetorically, not facetiously), but does the ECB intend to hold works of art, boats, land or any other wealth items as part of its reserves? Will they officially mark their currency against any of these other wealth items? Can you understand my skepticism regarding this attempt to "un-money" gold? Does not a free-wealth, non-traceable asset such as gold represent an escape from the high transaction costs of the fiat? Isn't this is why the dollar wars with gold? If given a choice people will not hold the fiat when there's a freely-priced, non-inflatable alternative. To reflect this there will be two prices for every good. True, it may not circulate, but it will trade and do so as a medium. Respectfully, sir, it's a hell of a way to run a railroad. One gets the impression it's been designed to fail.Further:---------"Now, consider that all wealth is represented in and of itself. You cannot reproduce wealth through substitution, like giving someone five pieces of copper for one piece of gold and then have then think they now have five pieces of gold! This is the process we try to perform within the realm of man's money ideals. We have always debased trading wealth by duplicating it into other forms and calling all of it, collectively, "our money". This duplicating, this replicating, this debasement is the result of taking the concept of a credit / contract function ( paying in the future) and combining it with the concept of completing a trade at the moment. Think about that for a moment?"--------------Yes! This is what we need to fix. As long as man believes that he can (without cost) create value, capital or whatever by making a bookkeeping entry in a ledger, we will live in a world possessed by the "copper into gold" illusion, no? But there is nothing wrong with credits and contracts as long as they are backed at par by real money, because there is no illusion in this. We are capable technologically of creating such a system, and we will have a prime opportunity politically when the dollar reserve function dies. "Sound money is but a thought" say you. I say, like a lamb am I who runs before the lion even though his fate be sealed. Sometimes the lamb does win, yes? (smile)Further:-----------We all need and must use some form of fiat currency to operate in this modern world. It makes little difference if MSFT went to $10 or $10 billion, you would still use the 1212currency system in trade as a more efficient form of modern trade. Society now uses these " money" systems without any form of gold backing, not because they are "strong" or "stable", but because they work more than they fail.-------No! Fiat is used only through threat of force. ANOTHER implied as much when he stated that this was a way to get oil off the dollar without war. I ask you, sir, look around you. See all the things in your life brought to you by voluntary exchange through the market economy? An economy capable of all this is certainly capable of producing a free-market medium of exchange, no? This is what I mean by sound money (the Rothbard way). Trail Guide, there is so much wealth that the world does not have today because our capital and savings have been consumed by the mere issuance of these fiat currencies. Is it not that "they work more than they fail", but that each one is in a continual state of failure?Regards,Elwood Old Yeller (4/22/01; 11:14:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 52334) I don't think these boys are letting Greenie in the clubhouse anymore Quote from the Swedish finance minister Bosse Ringhelm Friday,April 21,2001;"It's a fact that the American economy will mean less and less to Europe because the EU is becoming stronger and therefore European dependence will diminish.And that is a fact the US will soon dicover." Old Yeller (4/22/01; 10:26:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 52333) The thunder from down under http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html Wouldn't it be nice to see Bill Buckner on CNBC.Boy,he'd have them squirming in their seats. JMB (4/22/01; 09:08:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 52332) I will trade 1 ounce of Gold for 100 ounces of Silver Smile@USAGold.com And I'll pay the freight. da2g (4/22/01; 05:56:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 52331) Trail Guide- thanks Thank you Sir Trail Guide for your response to my questions.Best Regards,da2g Tannehill (4/22/01; 00:32:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 52330) point-counter point Comment on: Low gold price shouts for Greenspan's attentionarticle on the miningweb athttp://www.mips1.net/422567CB004DBB8F/UNID/TWOD-4TRQSD?OpenDocumentsnippet:"Chairman Greenspan and central banks should know that we, the gold buying citizens of the world, stand ready to buy gold, in increasing quantities, as the price falls."interesting comment, that's all from Tannehill Black Blade (4/22/01; 00:23:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 52329) Fed Ready to Act if Economy Slows Further http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010421/business_economy_fed_dc_84.html Snippit:DEWEY BEACH, Del. (Reuters) - Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia President Anthony Santomero said on Saturday the Fed was ready to act quickly if the sluggish U.S. economy weakens further, making clear the central bank is poised to cut rates again if growth does not rebound.Black Blade: 450 basis points to go and then we pull even with Japan. AG is a man with a plan ;-) Mr Gresham (04/22/01; 00:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 52328) Trail Guide "and our dollar reaches a level to match it's long term history of over creation" -- you got VERY clear in that post, about lots of things. I think your questioners are drawing out the fuller points in your picture, day by day.I think some people are left with a disproportionate view of dollar vs. Euro advancement, caused by numbers sticking like "$30,000 gold", to imagine that you think Euro might go to something like $100 (?). (I think your scenario works quite well at Euro: $3 USD and up...but are you saying Euro can escape without much consumer price inflation while US is hyper-ing?)If you occasionally could (repeat?) breakdown the stages of "devaluation" you see the dollar going through, it might help them/us all. I know its a far-off hypothetical, but it fills in for us the world that your eyes see ahead.I mentioned before the "three-stage rocket" model for gold, in support of your price suggestions. The first is the gold market breakdown, where the paper is removed, and the physical goes toward its natural proportion of value, undiluted by paper. That's good for something like a $2000+, nearly overnight, as you've suggested (?)The second stage is the offshore (?) dollar reserve holders bidding those in for physical gold, as there's not much else for them to do with those dollars. That's good for another multiple. (Although some of this dollar trade-in might be happening in Stage One?)The third is the momentum effect, as everyone else rushes to cash in there available liquidity (and finally even margin or credit lines?) for the best asset that is showing "inflation" in price, gold. (Stocks down, bonds down, money market funds "bust a buck" oughta do it.)The hyperinflation of other goods in US will be part of the third stage, and will still lag the gold price run-up from that stage. So, as I think you are saying, physical gold holders will have the jump on the first two stages, and ride out the third pretty well...How close am I? ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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