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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

FORUM ARCHIVES

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/2/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Blackjack (09/02/02; 23:18:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84184)
US West Coast ports brace for Union slowdown/strike
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=businessnews&StoryID=1399659
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - U.S. West Coast ports braced for a possible labor slowdown this week after the union representing thousands of longshore workers walked out of contract talks with port employers.

Union leaders were not available for comment on Monday, which was the Labor Day holiday.

But port employers warned the breakdown of contract negotiations in San Francisco on Monday could mean work slowdowns in ports that handle $300 billion worth of goods each year, or more than half of all U.S. trade.

"The union just fired the first shot," Joseph Miniace, president of the Pacific Maritime Association, which represents port employers in their talks with the International Longshore and Warehouse Union.

"They opened the door to work slowdowns, which we have said time and again will not be tolerated."

Union officials have said no decisions on possible work slowdowns or other moves were expected before Tuesday, when negotiators return from Labor Day rallies.

Union leaders allowed the temporary contract to expire at 5 p.m. on Sunday after talks foundered on the issue of new technology for the ports -- innovations employers say are necessary to keep ports competitive but that union leaders fear may cost union jobs.

Longshore workers with the ILWU -- one of the nation's most powerful and best-paid unions -- have been working on day-to-day contracts since July 1, when their last contract expired.

The negotiations cover some of the country's most important ports, including Los Angeles, Oakland and Seattle, and economic analysts have said big disruptions in port traffic could have serious effects for the struggling U.S. economy.
_____________
This would be the nail in the coffin of any US economic recovery.
When it rains it pours.

Waverider (09/02/02; 22:16:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 84183)
NIKKEI 225 Index
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^N225&d=c&t=1d&l=on&z=b&q=l
Real time ...not a pretty sight!

Blackjack (09/02/02; 22:00:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84182)
World's Biggest Bank falls 7% in Tokyo
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?mnu=news&ptitle=Stock%20Market%20World&tp=ad_uknews&T=news_storypage99.ht&ad=world_stocks&s=APXQkPRW4QXNpYW4g 
Mizuho, the world's largest bank, slid 7.2 percent to 231,000 yen. It was the most active stock by value, with 9.5 billion yen in shares changing hands.

Banks were the second-biggest decliners on the Topix, on concern that the Tokyo government may shift its fund out of the local banks after it conducted assessments of deposit data, capital levels and credit ratings at Mizuho and 14 other lenders.

The city, which earlier said it may close accounts or stop making new deposits at banks it deemed riskiest, hasn't released details of the reviews.

``If the conditions are good, we'd do businesses with anybody including foreign banks,'' Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara said in an interview. ``Citibank has the best record here in Japan, so it could be one of the candidates.''

UFJ Holdings Inc., Japan's No. 4 lender by assets, dropped 4.2 percent to 252,000 yen. Mitsubishi Tokyo Financial Group Inc., the world's No. 5 lender, shed 2.8 percent to 773,000 yen. Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp., the world's fourth-largest, declined 3.2 percent to 585 yen.
___________________
I thought 9,500 on Nikkei was the trigger for default.
Watching this unfold is amazing. The Japanese government
doesn't trust Mizuho? Going from Mizuho to Citi is like jumping
out of the frying pan into the fire!

Black Blade (09/02/02; 21:57:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 84181)
Nikkei tumbles to 18-year low
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/print_story.asp?print=1&guid={DB6619F9-6D64-476D-9748-E8CA5BD51666}&siteid=yhoo

Snippit:

TOKYO (CBS.MW) - Tokyo's leading Nikkei Average sank to an 18-year intraday low by midday Tuesday. Nagging concerns over banks and the general corporate business outlook triggered selling in both the financial and technology sectors. The Nikkei fell 159.10 points, or 1.7 percent, to end the morning session at 9,362.53 - a level last seen in December 1983 on an intraday basis. Extending losses into a sixth straight session, the Nikkei now stands about 9 percent lower than at the start of the year. Finance Minister Masajuro Shiokawa said although he is closely monitoring stock prices, he has no specific policies to boost the market. "I think stocks are being affected by those of the U.S. The drop in stock prices are proceeding globally," he said. "It is difficult for us to take steps aimed at Japanese stock prices aggressively in such an environment."


Black Blade: Japanese banks also include their stock holdings as part of their net worth. As the stock index crashes, so does the value of the Japanese banks. Add on top of all that, the banks are insolvent and are holding bad outstanding loans on the books that will never ever be paid back. It is no wonder that the Japanese government is no longer going to guarantee bank deposits come April Fools Day. I expect to see a renewed "Japanese Gold Rush" as that date approaches. "Interesting Times"



The Invisible Hand (09/02/02; 21:42:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 84180)
link between monetary devaluation and military attack
Sector,

You said:
This is the only logical explanation for the President's abstruse war policy moves. Since he has no visible support for an invasion, the "Event" referred to must be something else. A known WMD terrorist attack, massive devaluation in response to a gold cartel capitulation or something of that magnitude fits the bill.

I understand the link between an attack on the US of A and an attack by the US of A. But what's the link between a monetary devaluation and a military attack?

Black Blade (09/02/02; 21:36:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 84179)
Al Qaeda Gold Moved to Sudan - Iran, U.A.E. Used as Transit Points
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27535-2002Sep2.html

Snippit:

Financial officers of al Qaeda and the Taliban have quietly shipped large quantities of gold out of Pakistan to Sudan in recent weeks, transiting through the United Arab Emirates and Iran, according to European, Pakistani and U.S. investigators. The sources said several shipments of boxes of gold, usually disguised as other products, were taken by small boat from the Pakistani port of Karachi to either Iran or Dubai, and from there mixed with other goods and flown by chartered airplanes to Khartoum, the Sudanese capital. Gold has long been a favorite way of storing wealth in Southeast Asia, the Arabian peninsula and northern Africa. Smuggling gold by sea from Karachi into Iran and Dubai is also a centuries-old activity.


Black Blade: Another good lesson why Gold should be in every ones portfolio. The anonymous and easily transportable wealth preservation vehicle of precious metals is desirable for any freedom loving people to hide from the authoritarian eyes of abusive governments. Governments can seize and freeze assets (if they know about them), yet it is in the best interests of all to stash away some wealth into easily hidden assets. This is a lesson for the Arabs who are heavily invested in the U.S. now that a lawsuit threatens to take their wealth, not to mention the recent Rand report for the Pentagon claiming the Saudis are enemies of the United States. The US has seized foreign assets before (ie Iran, Iraq, Panama, etc.).



Black Blade (09/02/02; 21:13:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 84178)
Asian Markets Are Happy
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Asian markets are tanking again. Japan's Nikkei 225 could easily go sub 9,000 at this rate. The rumor is that another major Japanese bank is in deep trouble and will require a government bailout (still awaiting details or confirmation on this). In other news, Japan has ordered the shutdown of 5 nuclear power plants due to structural problems and maintenance concerns. Nuclear power provides 22% of the country's electricity. A minor energy crisis could be developing.

- Black Blade

Black Blade (09/02/02; 21:05:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 84177)
Crisis At Citi
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_36/b3798008.htm


Snippit:

Weill, who turns 70 in March, is a risk-averse manager who despises surprises. But for months now, he's been blindsided by one mishap after another. A platoon of state and federal investigators is homing in on the question of Citigroup's complicity in each of the defining business catastrophes of this post-bubble era: the fall of Enron Corp. and the great telecom meltdown. In South America, Weill is trying to stanch loan losses in Argentina that already have topped $1 billion while paring the bank's exposure to Brazil's shaky economy. Even Citi's consumer-lending operation, which generates half of its earnings, is afflicted by rising credit-card charge-offs and by conflicts with regulators over its marketing of loans to consumers with bad credit ratings.

The most pressing of these problems are the scandals rocking Wall Street. It's starting to look as though the very model of the financial conglomerate is fundamentally flawed. Sprawling institutions such as Citi, J.P. Morgan Chase, Merrill Lynch, and others are riddled with conflicts of interest, compounded by abuses by aggressive bankers. Consider how banks and brokers have used loans as loss leaders to win lucrative investment-banking assignments or how they have cobbled together dubious structured-finance deals that have helped corporate clients mask their true condition. Or how research analysts at some firms have hyped the stocks of banking clients to investors even as they disparaged them in private e-mails. In the latest revelation, Citi's Salomon Smith Barney (SSB) investment-banking subsidiary gave telecom CEOs preferential access to shares of hot initial public offerings that could be flipped in hours or days at great profit. All of these schemes were designed to lock in fees at the expense of smaller shareholders who, in many cases, were stuck holding worthless securities.


Black Blade: There is still the rumor that Citigroup's Rubin will be subpoenaed to appear before congress to testify about his involvement with Enron. Still it appears that Citigroup may avoid some losses as the IMF loans to the crumbling South American economies will instead go to cover the bank's losses. Citi is also one of the major banks with huge derivative exposure that could severely cripple the bank. It is also a major backer of subprime loans and supplier of problem credit cards to those of questionable credit worthiness. It should get "interesting".



DOWNUNDER (09/02/02; 21:05:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 84176)
@ BELGIAN - - RE ED STEER LINK " (War) Drums Keep Pounding Rhythm To My Brain"
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/hemingway_table.cfm?cfid=353342&cftoken=99894749&pid=2460
Thanks for the feed back on this great article. No I haven't
heard of Peter Warburton (British Economist) before --nor had I read his article at the archives of G.E. However I followed the link from above article to:

"The debasement of world currency: it is inflation,but not as we know it". A very worth while read but one thing puzzles me.At the btm it's signed off by "David W. Tice & Associates" ??? did you notice that --If so any idea on what was going on here? TIA



Waverider (09/02/02; 20:57:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 84175)
MK
Of course that's USAGOLD *AND* CPM. :)

Waverider (09/02/02; 20:55:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 84174)
MK
Thank you for the opportunity to participate here and for your leadership in making this forum what it is. I thoroughly agree with you -

****** USAGOLD FORUM IS THE BEST ON THE NET ******

I have my party hat and dancing shoes on and look forward to the month of Birthday Celebrations! BTW - I've had a number of compliments on the beautiful French Angel (which I wear around my neck) and everytime someone comments on it I give attribution to USAGOLD....you could kind of consider me a real-time advertisement!! It's forcing me to sharpen my knowledge of economics and Gold "...just what *was* the essay contest topic?....and what *is* the future role of Gold?" Cheers,
Waverider

Black Blade (09/02/02; 20:50:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84173)
Indicators Look "Grim"
http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.asp

The US market index futures are pointing to a negative open. The grains are sharply higher on withering crops and dwindling supply after 2 to 3 years of drought and seed stockpiles are being drawn upon. The USD is starting to come under pressure tonight. Petroleum prices are coming off the recent highs, though word from OPEC member Venezuela is that production will not be increased as this month's OPEC meeting in Osaka, Japan (although Saudi deny's it). Meanwhile Gold awaits direction from New York markets, currency markets, and economic data. After a 3 day holiday when investors and institutional people are coming off vacations amid "grim" prospects - tomorrow could be "entertaining".

- Black Blade

MK (09/02/02; 20:12:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 84172)
Gandalf
It is good to remind us from whence we came. . .

All: Can anyone tell me of another financial Forum this successful, this important, this focused? It is the standard -- this Table -- to which all others hew and for this I am grateful to those seated here. We have blazed the trail which all others follow. The one that is read, quoted and honored wherever gold folk congregate. You have made this Forum what it is. As a well-known and highly regarded poster once said: "We watch this new gold market together, yes?" Ever changing. Always new. Never losing its luster. Like gold itself. That's what makes this Table what it is.

sector (09/02/02; 20:03:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 84171)
@CavenMan - The Japanese Government Funds Shift to CiitiBank...
...is consistent with
...a mutual yen/dollar/euro devaluation [against gold] scheme.

++++++++++++++

Tonight's Cafe suggests that some new, BIG, long gold hedge funds are operating under the assumption of a big September event that will surge the price of gold. [Bill Murphy continues to offer the best advise anywhere]

This is the only logical explanation for the President's abstruse war policy moves. Since he has no visible support for an invasion, the "Event" referred to must be something else. A known WMD terrorist attack, massive devaluation in response to a gold cartel capitulation or something of that magnitude fits the bill.

This just about the cleanest investment warning signal that one gets.

(1) Actual Administration actions in preparation for an internally and externally unjustified war whose thinly veiled objective is actually the possession of another nation's crude oil reserves because our decade-long false economy is about to fail.

(2) Actual Administration warnings [Cafe sources] to insiders about a very bad DOW and economic future.

(3) Reports of large funds going long gold in advance of a rumored September event.

Don't come crying when gold tops $500 on the way to the stratosphere.

There will not BE entry points AFTER the balloon goes up because ALL the available cheap metal will be acquired in an instant. This remarkable fact of currency crises is not speculation but routine consequenses according to experts in the field [M. Obsfedt, UC Berkeley].

Gandalf the White (09/02/02; 19:59:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84170)
DEEP entries from the ARCHIVE in "The Birthday Essay Contest" !
Aristotle (09/22/99; 23:05:30MDT - Msg ID:14167)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY! O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore...***
MK suggested that we embark upon a spirited bout of one-upmanship for offering "the most gracious, acceptable and believable compliment of this FORUM...the Table Round -- this meeting place that has become an important addition to our lives" as a one-year birthday tribute.

One year old? My dear FORUM, you have surely been lied to about your year of birth, for you are surely much older than that. You overflow with wisdoms and the richness of grace that only age can provide. No, your life began much earlier in time than September of 1998, for you sprang to life as we knights and ladies each drew OUR first breath and embarked on lifelong quests to gather unbidden, to build, to manifest this noblest of human endeavors as a Table Round--to strive for the key to unlock the full potential of mankind that currently lies hidden in a cloud of confusion. I have prepared a verse that I offer on this occasion which I feel defines our prevailing view:

The treasures of life will remain locked away
until we control our greed;
Our folly it seems is hoarding Gold as the prize
when Gold must be USED as the key.

This noble Forum need not employ an agent (sorry MK) to fish for compliments on its behalf. I say this because this Round Table takes on its form from one compliment after another in the form of the valuable thoughts that each person chooses of their free will to put on open display for the incremental enrichment of mankind. We post, too, for yet another reason. To provide ourselves with a glimmer of hope, like a castaway on a small island at sea who commits a message in a bottle to the endless waves as a small plea to anyone "out there" who might find it and somehow make a difference while we are powerless to do so. And if the currents be against us and the bottle be not found for an age, at least it will one day be known by someone that there once was a forlorn soul who's life nonetheless burned as bright as ever has under the sun.

"Why do we read, if not post?" In a comment I attribute to C.S. Lewis..."To know we're not alone." Nobody gathered here does so for the purpose of making money. Oh, sure, we might justify to ourselves and our inquiring friends and families that that IS the reason, be deep down we know it is not. All the money we have and need we continue to earn in our daily honest endeavors. But we have the nagging suspicion that all is not right, that something is amiss with this money we've honestly earned. We gather here to learn why we feel as we do, and to confirm that we are not playing the part of the fool while the rest of the world walks the higher road in a State of Grace. No, as we gain confidence from one another to raise our eyes and allow ourselves to see clearly, and to allow ourselves to follow our own conscience regarding the direction of our own lives, we realize that things are not as they once seemed. It is we that are traveling the higher road, and immune to the scorn cast about by the masses who are to frightened to leave the herd as we have done.

An unknown author once answered his own question "What surprises you most about mankind?"
"That they get bored of being children, are in a rush to grow up, and then long to be children again. That they lose their health to make money, and then lose their money to restore their health. That by thinking anxiously about the future, they forget the present, such that they live neither for the present nor the future. That they live as if they will never die, and they die as if they had never lived."

Such is the Round Table "embodied" of compliments, and therefore in need of no blatant expression of same. "We gather here." That says enough when you consider who exactly "we" are. Some of us will never know the extent of who is who. It matters not. Know thyself, and you'll know that your own presence here is worth the riches of kings, and as a complement to the group, the compliment is expressed. We gather here to live our lives better, and with hope of being that helpful BEACON to any others lost in the night. That says it all, my dear friends.

WE gather HERE.
---Aristotle
===

Tomcat (09/23/99; 19:24:14MDT - Msg ID:14227)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY! O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore...***

I would to take this birthday to toast the knights of this table by telling a short story.

My eleven year old son, Eric, and I have often gone panning for gold but have come home empty handed. My son kept urging me on and recently we bought some new equipment. With our dreams rehabilitated we trudged back into the mountains for another try.

We worked an area called Bedrock Creek for quite awhile. Late in the day, just as my spirits started to sag, I heard a squeal of delight from my son and, as I looked up, I saw him running to me, sluice in hand, pointing to his discovery.

"Dad", he said, "We've struck gold!"

There, glittering in the Colorado sun, lay a our first piece of the noble metal.

While driving home, Eric held his sluice in his lap, talking non-stop about the next day and all it would bring. During these moments I thought about all the physical gold I had stored at home and how this paled in comparison to our discovery of one little piece of gold.

One little piece. One that meant so much.

I thought about the important of that one little peice. Slowly I began realize that gold without dreams is no longer gold. Gold gets its power by being a connecting point to the real things of value: to our hopes, our dreams, to the essence of life itself, to the reasons we live and die.

It was then that I realized how important my fellow knights were to me and I saw the value of our round-table and our bond to one another. I saw at last that our table is like gold itself; a connecting point to our hopes, our dreams, to the essence of life itself, to the reasons we live and die.
===
<;-)

Gandalf the White (09/02/02; 19:33:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 84169)
"MORE" ARCHIVED Birthday Essay Contest examples <;-)
Goldspoon (09/22/99; 03:28:00MDT - Msg ID:14110)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY "O" Mighty Oaken Table of Yore***

What stellar company you are... The quality of posts at this round table makes one humble.. When i started to first read and then post at this fine Oaken table i had only a hint of the members gathered here... The faces were in shadows hidden by your guilded armored helmets. As my eyes became adjusted to the golden glow here and my ears adjusted to the softspoken words of encouragement and of golden truth, i realized that i was in the company of bravehearts. Hearts tempered by battle and minds of refined wisdom..Unselfish souls willing to share the timeless knowledge of the true Golden Ages. A time stolen from us that i did not even know was missing.... i soon learned that even i had something to add (meeger as it may be) to this Golden Quest, almost as if i were drawn here of purpose... Excuse me for some of my past posts dear Knights of the Round Table... for i did not then realize how tall the trees in this forest were... nor how firmly rooted their convictions, nay even of the rich soil of truth and justice from which they feed.....makes one feel small... but proud of one's place....As the ages roll.. and birthdays pass...Hear!..Hear! and raise your glass!..To one and all who gather here and to every braveheart that endures..remember what every Gold Smith knows.. that the more Gold is hammered, streched and stressed.. the more that admoration for the metal grows... Like you, dear friends who gather round here..Kings, Knights, Wizards, and Grand Ladies alike..a toast!!...a toast to Freeeeedom, Justice, and the soon return of Gold as Money for All!!.....
==== AND

Black Blade (9/22/99; 11:15:33MDT - Msg ID:14123)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY! O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore...***

I, Sir Black Blade having just returned from the far reaches in search of the valued metal "GOLD", a worthy crusade indeed, find myself on a narrow forested and fogged path. I emerge from the mist and I see the magnificent virtual castle of USAGOLD. I approach cautiously having been away for some time and only able to receive precious little news from the Forum while in the wilderness. I see that all is quiet and I wonder, where is everyone? Is this a trap? I draw the Black Blade from it's sheaf and move slowly toward the drawbridge. I notice that the bridge is lowered and the feeling of danger grows. I see a sudden movement and I prepare to fight. Then I recognize a tall cloaked figure. I'm relieved, I see the Town Crier, our guardian of the gate. He beckons me forth and proudly announces that the festivities have begun. I replace the Black Blade into it's sheaf and proceed toward the Great Hall.

I come toward the huge oak doors and they open as if by some magical power. Behold, the Round Table with many guests, some known to me and others whom I have not yet met. At the head of the table is his royal highness MK, King of this virtual realm, his royal counselors FOA and Another raising their golden chalices toasting good fortune to all. Off to the side I see the royal economists Stranger and Farfel debating stagflation and preparing to grab lances for another jousting contest. If this continues much longer I should think they will use maces and battle axes next. Meanwhile ORO scratches his head in amazement and the royal Lady of the Court Leigh admonishes the two of them for being so rambunctious. I tell our Lady not to worry, boys will be boys. She gives me that downcast look and I realize that I should hold my tongue around this fair maiden. I take a seat at the table and fill my goblet. I look across the table and see Sir Koan and Sir Phos drinking from Silver Goblets all the while Sir Koan is explaining to all who will listen about how to tell a dog from a bear. In the glow of the fire I see a new face, who can that be? He drinks from a platinum chalice. Why I believe that be Sir Goldspoon. There is laughter off to my right and I see Sirs WAC, PH, Asher, Gandolf, Canuck, North of 49, and Canamami. I am curious of course, so I approach. Of course, they are observing Tom Fumich our beloved Court Jester performing his usual (and unusual) antics. I cross the hall to the other side of the Round Table. I see Sirs SteveH, Aragorn III, Scott, Cavan Man and Beesting surrounded by dark smoke, standing around a blackened cauldron near the fireplace engaged in strange and wonderful experiments of alchemy. I wonder if Sirs SteveH and Aragorn III are really wizards or sorcerers. I also hear Sir ET warning of Y2K over all the merriment. I see a ghostly figure in the background whispering into King MK's ear. I believe that must be the elusive Sir Holtzman who has come by for a rare visit. I know that there is a seat reserved for this learned knight, however, he has yet to take his rightful place at this forum. I see many new knights as well as old friends entering the Great Hall. I move back to my seat, grab my goblet, and taste the sweet nectar. I relax and smile because before I go on my next crusade for the noble metal in a distant land, I share some time with friends, fellow Knights and Ladies ……….
For now I'm home.
===
<;-)

Cavan Man (09/02/02; 19:29:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84168)
sector, this is interesting...
Top Financial News


09/02 20:21
Japan's Ishihara Says Tokyo May Shift Some Deposits to Citibank
By Yoshiko Matsushita


Tokyo, Sept. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo's government, concerned over Japan's wobbly banks, may shift some of its 1.7 trillion yen ($14.4 billion) in deposits from Mizuho Holdings Inc. and other Japanese lenders to foreign rivals such as Citigroup Inc.

``If the conditions are good, we'd do businesses with anybody including foreign banks,'' Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara said in an interview. ``Citibank has the best record here in Japan, so it could be one of the candidates.''

Tokyo conducted assessments of deposit data, capital levels and credit ratings at Mizuho and 14 other lenders. The city, which earlier said it may close accounts or stop making new deposits at banks it deemed riskiest, hasn't released details of the reviews.

Tokyo and other local governments are seeking to ensure the safety of taxpayer money as Japan plans to remove unlimited protection from most types of deposits starting April 1. A fall in deposits would make it harder for Japan's lenders, struggling with 52.4 trillion yen in bad loans, to return to profit.

``We're responsible for public money, taxpayers' money, and we can't just let it go up in smoke,'' Ishihara said, leaning back in a white armchair in a Tokyo Metropolitan office. Citibank's ``interest rates are more than 10 times those of banks here.''

Following computer breakdowns in April at Mizuho that resulted in double-charging of 60,000 customer accounts and as many as 2.5 million delays of money transfers, Tokyo shifted 300 billion yen of deposits from the world's largest lender, where it was the biggest depositor, to buy Japanese government bonds, Ishihara said.

Tokyo may allocate more funds to bonds, including central and local government securities as well as corporate bonds, the governor said. Bond holdings, which account for about 20 percent of Tokyo's total public funds, may rise to as much as 50 percent, the city government said last month.

Mizuho's Homework

Apart from the assessments of lenders, Tokyo carried out an in-depth inspection on Mizuho separate from the checks the Financial Services Agency conducted after the April computer glitches, Ishihara said. The inspection found more problems than the FSA discovered, he said, without elaborating.

Ishihara said Tokyo may pull out more money or take other measures if it isn't satisfied with reports Mizuho, formed from the merger of Fuji Bank Ltd., Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank Ltd. and Industrial Bank of Japan Ltd., is scheduled to submit to Tokyo.

``I've given them two homework assignments; one due in October and the other in March,'' Ishihara said. ``If they don't make us happy, we'll have to take some actions.''

Mizuho, which handles the city's payroll and processes tax payments, on Aug. 23 said it would pay the Tokyo government 16.9 million yen to cover costs incurred as a result of the computer breakdowns.

``Too Lenient''

Ishihara also attacked the FSA, saying its inspections and subsequent actions on Mizuho were inadequate and ``too lenient.''

``The worst part of all this is the FSA is hiding things so they don't lose face,'' Ishihara said. ``Until we stepped in, the FSA hadn't really done anything. They haven't grasped what's really going on.''

The FSA in June said Mizuho gave it inaccurate information about the progress of its tie-up before April 1. It ordered the bank to make reports every three months to ensure there are no more breakdowns.

``Japan's government -- the FSA -- has no grand design on how to revive the nation's financial system,'' Ishihara said. ``The FSA is being reactive, not proactive, and by doing this, the wound just gets deeper and deeper.''

Ishihara said bureaucrats at the FSA have told him Mizuho's situation is so bad it may not be viable much longer. They have no plan for action, though, and say they don't want to deal with a crisis when they're in charge.

Bank Tax

In addition to calling Mizuho on the carpet, the governor has been trying to squeeze more money out of lenders that operate in Tokyo. He said he'll continue to fight for a tax on banks that has been the subject of a court battle because the city needs the revenue.

``We cannot rely on the central government (for all funding), and we never know what's going to happen in a trial,'' he said

Tokyo is requiring banks to pay taxes based on their assets, not net income, forcing even money-losing banks to contribute. In March, the Tokyo District Court ordered the city to repay 74.2 billion yen to Mizuho and other Japanese banks, saying the tax was unfair. The court did not revoke the law, and Ishihara said the city would appeal.

Still, the governor said he may be pushing too hard on Mizuho and the other banks.

``I'm also a politician. It would be troublesome if Japan goes into a financial panic because Tokyo has triggered it.''




Gandalf the White (09/02/02; 19:10:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 84167)
My FINAL suggestion to ALL "LURKERS" to COME ON IN !
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/tools/guideandsignup.html
Come on "LURKERS", just "hit" the above LINK --- or hit the Link named "Discussion Forum Guidelines" at the top of the FORUM page and you will see the Forum Rules and Sign-up Form to register for POSTING capability.

The OFFICIAL "Birthday" of the USAGOLD Forum is defined as September 21st !

This MONTH long CELEBRATION is to recognize "The Fourth Birthday" for the USAGOLD Forum, and GOLDEN prizes are going to be given to skillful and fortunate posters. The first segment of the CELEBRATION, which will begin shortly after this LABOR DAY HOLIDAY, shall be the GOLD SETTLEMENT PRICE GUESSING CONTEST ! Please watch for information as soon as the Hobbits return to work !

The SECOND portion of this USAGOLD Forum CELEBRATION will be an essay Contest and shall begin shortly after the completion of the Price Guessing Contest !

As NUMEROUS examples of prior "Birthday Essay Contests", I submit the ARCHIVED submittals of a number of "Famous Forum Goldhearts" !

===First some "Rhymes"
---

The Scot (09/21/99; 21:06:22MDT - Msg ID:14098)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY! O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore...***

What has brought us to this celebration?
Is it chivalry, is it patriotism, or is it the quest?
What do we seek here? Is it knowledge, understanding,
or a desire to be best?
Ye, through all this time, I think it is all.
To sit at such a table is an honor, to have your chair, to hang your shield on the wall.
The assembly, that's it! We are united in the cause.
We are Knights and Ladies of the land.
Against all that threaten, we take a stand.
Though at times we might not agree,
we all choose this Ore to set us free.
We know the truth, for it is right.
The truth was revealed here this night.
Let us guard this sacred place,
around this old table of Grace.

Good night to all,
The Scot

=== and

Peter Asher (09/22/99; 01:07:30MDT - Msg ID:14105)
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY "O" Mighty Oaken Table of Yore***
O Mighty Oaken Table of Yore,
Witness to enchanted lore,
Told by wondrous Knights of old,
Of quests renown by deeds so bold.

You've become our Forum standard,
"Knights of Gold" our host commanded.
Drawn by history's shining moments,
Now we stand as Gold's proponents.

First a band, a loyal few,
Inspired ranks which swiftly grew
Into this group we see tonight,
Linked by bonds of truth wove tight.

The young, the old;
The slow, the witty;
Country folk and some of city.
Wise men from across the sea,
Perhaps a Sheik of Araby.

Questing for a realm of knowledge
Far beyond the scope of college,
With passionate informed debate,
This lustrous Gold we venerate.

Gather round this massive table,
Raise your glasses as your able.
Congregate to celebrate,
This Golden Forum's birthing date.

Aragorn and Aristotle,
Open now an aged bottle.
Northy, how ‘bout you and Crier
Light us up a roaring fire.

ET, Scottie, Michael, Koan;
Tell us where the next years goin'
Gandalf, wizard of us all,
What's inside your crystal ball?

Leigh and Tomcat, tell us stories,
Tales of monetary glories.
PH shall we now regal
In Y2K by AEL?


FOA you're as a brother
With your distant friend Another.
Caven, tell us where you've gone
Can you find him Megatron.
Canamami, have a look,
Otherwise just ask Canuck

Beesting, Stranger,also ORO,
Tell us how we'll feel tomorrow
Crossroads, Steve and Golden Truth,
Sit by us and give us sooth.

Oh yes, Richard, when we sup,
I'd like to sit with Buttercup.
Then when all is said and done,
Let's have a toast by el St. One.

"When from this castle far you Roam;
O'er towering peaks or seas of foam.
If for your friends you have a yen,
Just go online — your home again."
===
<;-)

darkhorse (09/02/02; 19:05:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 84166)
ok...
1. so?
2. and your point is...?
3. very poor attempt...
4. I'll bet he's got a lot of other interests too, but he wouldn't want anything about them posted here...
5. whatever...

Cavan Man (09/02/02; 18:59:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 84165)
Hi sector
I plan to take the time tomorrow to write "Hootie" and thank him for striking a blow for the Constitution and Bill of Rights (am I stretching it too far) not to mention the fine traditions of the Masters. Regarding your theories on Iraq; I just don't know. It is truly amazing to see the action in the press knowing the stakes are incredibly high. I read Bill Bonner's two year old piece. "The Tipping Point" today. I think we are definitely near to a "tipping point" in this world. Have a great week...CM

Cavan Man (09/02/02; 18:54:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 84164)
Hey darkhorse
1. If you had been paying attention, you would know that our missing "essayist" once implied in a fleeting remark that he was a member of the club.

2. If you had been paying attention, you would know that said "essayist" has been MIA for eight months.

3. If you were paying attention this evening, you might have seen thru my poor, feeble attempt to strike a note of commonality based upon #'s 1 & 2 above with the "essayist" therby hoping to elicit a response to the post you find so inappropriate.

4. If you personally knew our host, you would know that he is an avid golfer and a big advocate of "rationality" and common sense.

5. Who asked you anyway?

sector (09/02/02; 18:53:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 84163)
@CavenMan - Kevin Warrick and the 2003 Masters
This 21 year old amateur is from my home town
He was in third place on Saturday at the US Open's Downpour Round - when the fairways were literally under 2 inches of water and the players had to drop in the rough to "Get relief". He finished low amateur.

Kevin practices at courses nearby. He is a first-class kid from the old school and he strikes the ball with wonderful purity. He will play with an invitation at the Masters.

Thank GOD Mr. Johnson took a stand against Politically Correct Gestapo. We shall see just how many NEW sponsors show up to stand with him and be counted.

There will be more than a few.

darkhorse (09/02/02; 18:41:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 84162)
@CM, your 84160
What the devil does that piece have to do with anything here? You reached WAY out into left field for some wacky sort of subject title to mention gold for an article that has absolutely no place here! C'mon, you know better than that....

sector (09/02/02; 18:35:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 84161)
Iran says it won't stand idle if Iraq is attacked
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=524&u=/ap/20020902/ap_wo_en_po/iran_iraq_1&printer=1
Mon Sep 2, 7:24 AM ET

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran reiterated its opposition to a possible U.S. attack against Iraq, warning it will not stand idle in the face of new regional instability.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told a news conference Monday that only the "Iraqi people, and not a world power, should determine Iraq's destiny."

"At the same time, Iran will not stand idle before such instability because if a country decides to overthrow another country's government, this will create a norm," Asefi said without elaborating.

Iran straddles the tense Middle East and Central Asian regions, sharing its western border with Iraq and eastern with Afghanistan ( news - web sites), the war-ravaged nation that U.S.-led forces struck following the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Speculation has been mounting that America wants to broaden its war on terror to Iraq, a move that has so far won little international support.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

All this regional and World opposition [See Caven Man's Russia post below] was easily predictable. So easy that one cannot escape the impression that it all has been a set-up by Bush and a few insiders on the Cabinet.

The true reason [Not revealed yet] for the war talk could be designed to sucker the opposition into an open display of disapproval. Then when the real reason ultimatly manifests itself, say…a known terrorist WMD attack on 9/11/02, then the tables will be turned [In the minds of the insiders on the Cabinet].

Such transparent, high-risk policy gambles and war preparations do little to engender respect for the Presidency or future support. Moreover, the frantic Administration arm-waving suggests that if GWB has no direct terrorist attack knowledge, then some sort of near-term economic "Crater Date" may be driving things.

One would do well to make financial moves...now.



Cavan Man (09/02/02; 18:27:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 84160)
Hello FOA and good show! Augusta should be kept pure as an OZ of AU.
MK, I hope you will indulge this.
Dan O'Neill: Augusta is still The Masters of its domain
Dan O'Neill
Post-Dispatch Sports Columnist
08/31/2002 09:44 PM


You have to give Hootie Johnson and the 300 or so members of Augusta National Golf Club credit. They've got backbone.

In an age in which the politically correct card is accepted in more places than Visa, where a few headlines, a little public pressure and a hint of "discrimination" is enough to have it your way, Augusta and its Masters Tournament landed a blow for good ol' rationality.

Augusta National chairman Johnson announced on Friday the club has contacted its corporate sponsors of the Masters Tournament and officially issued them "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. Augusta will not be requiring their services for the 2003 tournament, which will be a tradition unlike any other, if for no other reason than it will be commercial free. The unprecedented pre-emptive strike by America's most romantic club was in response to more rumblings by Martha Burk and the National Council of Womens Organizations.

The NCWO has taken issue with the lack of women members at Augusta National, which was formed in 1932 and began conducting the Masters Tournament in 1934. Earlier this year, Burk sent Johnson a letter urging Augusta National to invite a woman aboard. Johnson studied that unsolicited piece of counseling for a spell before sending a return letter that basically urged the NCWO to stick it where the Azaleas don't bloom. Speculation was the NCWO would counter by putting pressure on corporate sponsors of the Masters, which includes Coca-Cola, IBM and Citigroup. Sure enough, Martha and her libertarians recently contacted at least one of those sponsors about this monumental indignation.

Officials at Coca-Cola characterized the NCWO's letter as non-threatening, but Augusta National doesn't give a Hoot. The club decided the best defense was a good offense. It wasn't waiting for threats, wasn't putting up with the nonsense. You want to bother the sponsors, fine, there won't be any sponsors. Case closed.

You see, it ain't easy being green, but it ain't destitute either. The cost of commercial air during the Masters, like everything at Augusta, is on a need-to-know basis. But estimates put each four-minute hourly segment in the neighborhood of $75,000, which is a swanky neighborhood. But when you have a procession of cash registers ringing like the bells of St. Mary's seven days each spring, you don't need the eggs. People line up for souvenirs at the Masters like they're lining up for youth serum. They buy for themselves, buy for their family, buy for their friends, buy for the buying. Not only is Augusta taking its corporate supporters off the hook, word is it will waive its rights fee to CBS and offset any losses the network might incur.

No doubt, many of us were prepared to stop drinking Coke until justice prevailed, until Augusta National set our people free by inviting a wealthy, influential, female golf-administrator type to be part of their wealthy, influential golf-administrative-type society. The incense was burning, Peter, Paul and Mary were on the stereo, and the "Put a Dame on Magnolia Lane" slogan was on the placard.

Instead, all we can do is sit back and watch all 14 or so hours of the 2003 Masters without commercial interruptions. Man, that NCWO really knows how to hone in on an important social issue and bring the heat. God forbid they lean on sponsors of "The Tonight Show."

Or, God forbid the NCWO find a cause that actually has some redeeming value for women and human kind. Augusta National is a conservative, unyielding place. It took these aristocrats 58 years to invite an African-American to the party. It may take them awhile longer to set a place for a woman.

But everything in life can't be legislated or enforced, and every organization with an ax to grind can't be accommodated. The only thing worse than Augusta National not having a female member is some goofy organization telling them that they must.





Ten Bears (09/02/02; 18:27:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 84159)
MK
Thanks for the reply to my earlier post, and thank you for providing a civilized location where ideas may be exchanged.
Ten Bears

MK (09/02/02; 17:43:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 84158)
Ten Bears. . .In a New York Minute Everything Can Change
Your observation is correct that taxes are the reason for the two worker household. I would also go so far as to say that inordinately high tax load (promulgated at nearly every level of our day to day existence) contributes mightily to the high rate of household debt as well. Of course, the high tax rates themselves are the result of burgeoning government debt at all levels and -- the great irony of our times. In other words, we go into debt because our government went into debt first. For most here, I see no need to elaborate on that observation. The failure of the economic system at this level is something "economists" on the left do not want to discuss because it undemines its "tax and spend" justification for existence. It is ignored on the right because it undermines its out-dated notion that high debt-to-savings ratios represent personal moral failure rather than one on the part of the institutions which govern us. As a result, neither side of the political equation has a real interest in, or justification for, solving the problem. On we go. . . .

At the root, the cause of the problem is the fiat money (credit) system itself -- a system some would say is the best option of a bad lot on this planet -- monetary debris resulting from The Fall. My view is that the system probably cannot be reformed given the lifestyle (and sense of security) for which the enormous debt load was established. Match that to the inability of either party institute the kinds of fundamental changes required to set things right and you have what appears to be unstoppable momentum toward a one-time, complete and cataclysmic failure.

I do not advocate organizing to change the system. I no longer think that is possible. There was a time I did, but no more. I might change when I see moral leadership rise in one of the political parties, or perhaps from a "third" alternative. In lieu of such leadership, I advocate changing how we structure our portfolios to weather the excesses the system has brought about. . . .and to survive. I am sorry to say I have more and more taken on an almost Fatalist (note the word Fatalist, not Defeatist) mentality -- wherein the best we can do is what we do for ourselves and our families. Start there and see what follows. . . . . . .

"The wolf is always at the door. . . . .
In a New York minute, everything can change. . . . . ." Don Henley

Gold for the portfolio; Wisdom for the Soul. . .Here at this Table Round. . . . .And Gandalf readies the Big, Month-long Birthday Bash starting with a Major Price Guessing Contest. . . . . . . .Onward, my friends. . ..



steady (09/02/02; 17:12:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 84157)
add to the bone pile
Consolidated Freightways Corp., a 73-year-old trucking company, said Monday it was filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and laying off as many as 15,500 people around the country.
The company's stock had tumbled since it requested an extension in filing its second-quarter earnings two weeks ago and announced that it might be de-listed from the Nasdaq stock market.

In letters being mailed to workers Tuesday, the company said it simply didn't have enough money to continue operations.

``We expected that recent discussions with our banks, other lenders and real estate investors would enable us to obtain significant additional financial resources,'' the letters said. ``Unfortunately, this has not been the case.''

Hundreds of workers had shown up for work at Consolidated Freightways offices Monday, only to find the offices locked. In a recorded telephone message, Chief Executive John Brincko told them not to show up Tuesday.



Horatio (09/02/02; 16:41:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 84156)
From Zimbabwe to Rome to U.S. its all the same
The latest absurdity from this country(if I can call it that),first they kick out the white farmers from a country that used to export food.Then they put thier relatives and other political cronies in charge of the farms.Now they face famine,and what does the U.S.do ?We send them free food of coarse,and what is thier responce?.Is it "thank you"?.
No ,the responce is "we don't want the food because it is genetically altered !"We only want your food that is naturally grown." I say let "natural selection take its coarse".
It kind of reminds me of a fellow standing on a street corner taking handouts.I saw someone offer him a hamburger,after which he quickly replied "Im a vegetarian",not wanting food ,but money. Same thing happined to me in Rome two years ago.My son-in -law and I were in a corner sub shop buying a few sandwiches.In comes a gypsy with hand stretched out begging for
money.My son-in-law offered her the sandwich he had just gotten from the clerk.She said to him "mangia tua".My son-law asked me "what did she say?"I said she just told you to eat
it yourself.
Ten years ago I owned a Donut shop and a fellow came in begging for something to eat.We also served soup'so I gave him a free bowl of soup and Italian bread with it.
Fifteen minutes later my employee came back to the office to tell me the fellow wanted to see me again.
My first thought was "what does he want now ,desert?.
No,what he wanted to know was ,would I give him $7.00 to buy bus tickets with so he woulden't have to walk.
Needless to say I showed him the door and told him not to let it hit him in the ass on the way out.

This modern world needs a depression just to get some peoples heads screwed on straight. IMHO Buy gold & silver ,its coming!

Waverider (09/02/02; 16:07:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84155)
DAILY GOLD MARKET REPORT
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
Hey...we get an Afternoon Gold Report today...thanks Black Blade for doing that on a holiday! :)

Thanks also Mikal - that's helped. I'll keep a closer eye on the GOFO rate although I think that the derived rate is generally referred to in discussions - yes? Cheers!

Waverider

Belgian (09/02/02; 15:20:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 84154)
CRUDE OIL
The fundamental difference between the Western oil-consuming, economic powers and the oil-producing countries , (economically less developed) is that rising POO affects them both in an opposite way, without compensating effects. The Middle East and Russia (+/- 70% of global oil-reserves) do need, desperately, much higher oilprices, if they want to join our western prosperity. The west can't afford to pay more than 30$/35$ IN PRESENT DOLLARS, per barril or risks collapse.

The longer a high/higher POO remains...the more both parties (consumers/producers) experience the respective negative and positive aspects of such an elevated price.
The economic stronger west experiences faster currency depreciation and the holders of oil-reserves get a possibility to come economically closer to the west (dollar/euro-block included China).

When a M.E. war should be postponed for whatever excuse, the oil-reserve holders will build much stronger ties with each other and use the POO tool/weapon, more vigorously.
This plays into the "euro" cards and embarresses the dollar.
This as a possible explanation for Euroland and Russia's geopolitical stance and isolation of the US.

Calling off the Iraq attack (temporary), would immediately cut the 5$ war-premium (so called) off the POO and give cat and mouse some breathing time. They will play again somewhat later.

Breathing time for letting the bubbles unwind/deflate more orderly without disturbing crashes/shocks. Stockmarkets slipsliding slowly to 1990 levels, IRs, creaping up a bit and $/€ hoovering around parity. Recovery time is NO panic time.

What do you think Mister President Bush ?

Ten Bears (09/02/02; 15:14:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 84153)
Labor Day
Thanks to Mr. Gresham, Misetich, and Pizz for comments on Labor Day.
A few additional comments, based largely on information gained from this forum over the past few years:
It is worth noting that technology over the last 100 years has produced labor saving devices (both quantity & quality)unprecedented in recorded history. Yet for most Americans both parents have to work in order to support a family (up from 1 parent working 50 years ago). Logic would dictate that hours worked for sustenance should have decreased substantially over the last decades...the opposite has occurred.
Why?
A greater percentage of workers' wages is seized by various levels of government by taxation (necessitated in large part to pay interest on increasing amounts of government debt).
Over the last decades family debt has also increased and the associated interest payments consume additional purchasing power.
Also, the "hidden tax" of inflation (incorrectly reported by the CPI) eats away a substantial portion of purchasing power.
In the last two decades consideration of the concept of circular flow of income when formulating economic policy, has been discontinued. Income for workers created by production should be sufficient for them to purchase a substantial portion of that production.
Foreign produced goods (slave labor, in some cases) have
been imported without tariff. Labor and environmental cost differentials have been ignored.
American consumers (who no longer produce most of the goods they consume) have financed their consumption with increasing amounts of personal debt. IMHO The current situation does not appear sustainable.

mikal (09/02/02; 14:35:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 84152)
@Waverider
Among the reasons to watch GOFO are the words I quoted from the LBMA earlier that GOFO "are the rates at which contributors are prepared to lend gold on a swap against US dollars". And "some of the uses of GOFO means in the market include providing a basis for some finance and loan agreements and for the settlement of gold Interest Rate Swaps and Forward Rate Agreements."

mikal (09/02/02; 14:24:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84151)
@Waverider
I'll be glad to answer SOME of your good questions! I accessed the page you referred at the K site where they list the 3 different quotes for each of the periods from 1 mo. to 12 mo., unlike the home page containing only the Derived Lease Rates (LIBOR-GOFO). The LBMA is K's source, so K must be "consistent" to be credible. LBMA members(Market Making Members) determine the GOFO (Gold Forward Offered Rate) daily where a minimum of six members must daily submit their offer, the highest and lowest are thrown out and the mean average taken from the remaining offers. This is the GOFO (Forward) and is subtracted from LIBOR(London Interbank Offered Rate) to get the Derived or Lease(LIBOR-GOFO) rate. These 3 different rates are shown on your page and at LBMA daily. GOFO appears to be the benchmark to watch, though the derived rate must have a useful trading purpose.

Waverider (09/02/02; 13:36:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 84150)
Black Blade, Mikal
I'm looking at K. and see that there are two lease rates quoted. The first derived from market data, and the second by taking the difference between the Libor rate and the forward rate. Are you saying Mikal that these are normally consistent? If not, why the discrepency - why two? Also, what it the difference in use between the GOFO rates and the lease rates? TIA, Cheers,
Waverider

mikal (09/02/02; 13:34:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 84149)
Re: Lease Rates
It would seem these rates are manipulated down by the large investment banks to facilitate the gold carry trade (leasing) and hedging in supplying gold needed in price suppression and shorting. So a small increase in rates from 1- 2% is no longer significant compared to the impending likelihood of a much greater day to day spike.

mikal (09/02/02; 13:20:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84148)
@BlackBlade
Thanks. A check at LBMA.org.uk showed today's London Bullion Marketing Association (LBMA) GOFO (Gold Forward Offerred Rates) incorrectly quoted as being the LIBOR (London Interbank Offerred Rates) by Futuresource at your link. However, the page at your link shows Friday's rates in brackets alongside todays- with little or no increase! This is probably correct because Kitco's figures do not correspond at all with the LBMA quotes at their website. The GOFO rates Futuresource shows (without the correct attribution) are the Kitco rats normally. These are rates at which contributors (Market Making Members of LBMA) are prepared to lend gold on a swap against US dollars. Some of the uses of the GOFO in the market: To provide a basis for some finance and loan agreements and for the settlement of gold Interest Rate Swaps and Forward Rate Agreements. The "contributors" are: AIG International Ltd., The Bank of Nova Scotia- Scotia Mocatta, Barclays Bank Plc., Deutsche Bank AG, HSBC Bank USA London Branch, J Aron and Co (UK), JPMorgan Chase Bank, NM Rothschild & Sons Ltd, Societe Generale and UBS AG. Thanks again.

Black Blade (09/02/02; 12:51:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 84147)
Re: mikal - London Interbank Gold Lending Rates
http://www.futuresource.com/news/news.asp?story=i4284127093854175296

(Swaps vs. U.S. Dollars, previous day's in brackets):

02-Sep-02

1 Month - 1.650 pc
2 Month - 1.600 pc
3 Month - 1.560 pc
6 Month - 1.355 pc
1 Year - 1.188 pc

Black Blade: Lease rates? Maybe this will help.



Cavan Man (09/02/02; 12:12:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84146)
USAGOLD84145
Last message courtesy of BBC News.

Cavan Man (09/02/02; 12:11:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 84145)
OIL or WAT Files
Monday, 2 September, 2002, 15:40 GMT 16:40 UK
Russia warns against Iraq attack


Ivanov: Iraq poses no threat to the US

Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov has warned that a US attack on Iraq could destabilise the Middle East.
"Any decision to use force against Iraq would not only complicate an Iraqi settlement but also undermine the situation in the Gulf and the Middle East," he said after talks with Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri.


Sabri's talks are part of a diplomatic offensive

Mr Sabri was meeting Mr Ivanov in Moscow as part of Baghdad's drive to thwart a possible US military strike.

Moscow has been a strong supporter of Washington's post-11 September "war on terror" but has close links to Iraq.

Russia could not see "a single well-founded argument that Iraq represents a threat to US national security", Mr Ivanov said.

Mr Ivanov said Moscow welcomed the continuation of talks between Iraq and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan which, he hoped, would result in the return of weapons inspectors and the lifting of international sanctions.

Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tareq Aziz, told journalists in Johannesburg that he would meet Mr Annan on Tuesday.

Iraq and Russia recently agreed to sign an economic co-operation deal worth up to $60bn.

It will include new projects as well as the modernisation of Soviet-built infrastructure in Iraq.

Washington has warned that Moscow's diplomatic standing could be eroded because of its relations with regimes such as that in Iraq.

'First step'

US Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that if Iraq allows UN inspectors back in to complete their assessment of its weapons industry, it will be a "first step".

The comment came after Vice-President Dick Cheney said there was no point in sending weapons inspectors back into Iraq and argued forcefully for military action.

Mr Powell said the US also needed to present evidence of its suspicions about the threat posed by Iraq to the international community so that an informed judgement could be made about possible military action.

Dr Mudhaffar Amin, the Iraqi representative in London, told the BBC on Monday that Iraq would welcome UN weapon inspectors but needed top work out an agenda for them.

"We really have to sit and work out the agenda for their work," he said.

Appeal to Bush Senior

America's statements on Iraq continue to attract international criticism.

Former President Nelson Mandela of South Africa said on Monday he was "appalled".

"What they are introducing is chaos in international affairs and we condemn that in the strongest terms," Mr Mandela said in Johannesburg.

"We are really appalled by any country whether it is a superpower or a poor country that goes outside the United Nations and attacks independent countries."

The former South African leader said he had contacted President George W Bush's father - George Bush Senior - and asked that he raise the matter with his son.




Mr Gresham (09/02/02; 12:06:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 84144)
Cavan Man
Thanks and I'll take that as my inspiration to quit poking 'round here on the 'Net and get on with my Daddish duties (the usual: painting, mowing, dishwashing, chaufeurring) and even catch up on some billing (called "earning a living" in some professions ;) I'm now in my "Fiat Respect Recovery" program, which means around this time of the month, I forget about gold and write checks for bills instead. I honestly didn't think The Game would go on for this long, but then, I always was the impatient and impetuous one...

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (09/02/02; 12:06:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 84143)
Order direct for big savings and to avoid in-store hassles of time and travel
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