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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 3/2/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

tedw (03/02/02; 23:12:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 71021)
test
test

Interstate (03/02/02; 22:11:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 71020)
@Cavan Man

Okay. But I still thank you for reviving MY thought of another possibility for our love of gold.

However, I DO understand the type of experiment you were speaking of and we might be. Later, Interstate

sector (03/02/02; 21:54:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 71019)
@CavenMan About the Timing Thing...It Could go on for allot longer...but then...
What's different this time compared to the last three years is the Japanese cap on savings and its obvious relationship to a "bank bailout", allot less US reserves as a result of the WA, big hedge fund buyers and not the least GATA.

Strange as it seems GATA is the brightest illuminant and has dredged up all the pertinent facts to expose the operations of the anti-gold cabal. Each day brings more, although at this stage we certainly aren't releasing all we have. The old guard gold "analysts" have been conspicuously absent from this important battle.

Many intelligent people across the globe have been convinced by GATA and are acting on their convictions. But the biggest charge of explosive [Now with a lit fuse] is found in the exposed savings accounts of the elderly Japanese.

The government there is just plain corrupt and moms and pops know it and are in a bind as April 1, 2002 approaches. If the yen falls, even a little, a trigger mechanism is tripped. If a big insurance company fails, a trigger mechanism will be tripped since it would drag banks with it. If more banks fail after the deposit insurance deadline [two more little ones this week], even more problems happen since word of uninsured losses will travel like wildfire.

It all is at the point of maximum disequilibria moving to "D" Day in April.

The Japanese not going to act? Tell that to people who lived through WWII, total economic deprivation, and loss of confidence in government and now see half their life savings put at risk by a politician they elected to fix the LDP mess.

A 1.7% savings switch draws 1000 tonnes off the world market; a 17% switch draws 10,000 tonnes. The other Asian nations [With Shanghai's Gold Market Up and Running] are poised to join the fray. New York's COMEX has already been eclipsed by the TOCOM.

It's different this time…even without the aggressive hedge funds buying in NY.


Rx Gold (03/02/02; 20:16:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 71018)
R Powell
It seems a little risky to me. Have you tried it?

I like the clunk fine silver makes on the bar. When you slap an oz on the bar everyone turns to look. Somehow it just doesn't feel the same with plastic.

Rx Gold

R Powell (03/02/02; 19:23:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 71017)
Rx Gold
http://www.zealllc.com/2002/digigold.htm
You asked, "Anybody out there have stories of gold/silver being used as "real money"."
The link goes to Adam Hamilton's weekly offering explaining digital gold as money. Apparently it is being done.
Rich

Cavan Man (03/02/02; 17:50:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 71016)
Interstate
That wasn't the type of experiment I was thinking of.

nickel62 (03/02/02; 17:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 71015)
Bob Chapman sums it up as usual...
Bob Chapman has excerpts from
THE INTERNATIONAL FORECASTER 2, March 2002 (#1)
at
The Toulouse-Lautrec Table

"If you think Congress is going to come up with
derivative regulations, think again. Most all of them
are paid off. They passed legislation over a year ago
allowing Enron type contracts to be done with absolutely
no oversight. Don't you get it, Congress has been
purchased. They don't represent you or us, they represent
the elitists. Derivative contracts have totally
undermined our financial system. Enron was unregulated,
as is GE Capital, because they are not a bank or
securities firm. Who advised congress to not regulate derivatives? Alan
Greenspan, Larry Summers, Arthur
Levitt and Robert Rubin, who else? The problem is the
Congress, business, government, academia, big labor
and politicians are all in bed with the elitists and
we get screwed."



slingshot (03/02/02; 16:46:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 71014)
Gandalf the White
All Gone
Got to love those Hobbits.

slingshot

Gandalf the White (03/02/02; 16:41:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 71013)
SORRY, Sir Slingshot !
slingshot (03/02/02; 16:18:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 71012)
Piddily Report.
Someones Buying, MORE!
Went to the coin dealer to pick up the usual. All the one oz. eagles were gone !
====
The Hobbits just had a payday and soooo --
CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK, CLINK.
<;-)

slingshot (03/02/02; 16:18:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 71012)
Piddily Report.
Someones Buying, MORE!
Went to the coin dealer to pick up the usual. All the one oz. eagles were gone . He had one Krugerand so I pinched that and frowned at the tax I had to pay on it.But things have a way of turning for the best. After paying for the Krug, he mention he just recieved some silver. In his display was about 10/10 ozs. a 100 oz bar and plenty of 1oz. rounds. I asked him if business was good and he said yes.
I asked him did he have a lot of sellers when gold hit $300.00 and his reply was NO. In fact only ONE! In our conversation on Gold he mentioned that not only was there an increase in small purchases but large purchases of gold is on the rise. One took a month to fill.This news is good of course but, what he told me next made me pay closer attention. He said he had a family member working for a credit card company and the accounts he manages are those who are behind on the average of $35,000 for 90 days. His department is a large section and they have two shifts working. That is in my neck of the woods. I am beginning to wonder if the average household credit card debt is really only $8,000.

Soon we have the BoE auction . Followed by Japans cut in bank insurance for deposits April 1, 2002. Two major actions which should affect the price of Gold. BoE selling and Japan buying and Gold sitting just below the $300.00 level. And a mountain of debt that has not fully shown its face.

To borrow a line from one of our Presidents, "We have nothing to fear, But fear itself"

Piddily Report; All the News so Piddily, Others do not print it.

Slingshot


Rx Gold (03/02/02; 16:10:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 71011)
Black Blade and Silver as $$ Money $$
I am not sure of the info on the website that I linked to. You might contact them about that. I got the figure of $8000 per day from one well at a meeting that was put on by the Coal Bed Natural Gas group in Miles City last summer. They had a BIG dog and pony show with a great bar-b-q for the town folks. I was amazed at some of the information that they presented, such as a photo of the water coming out of a pipe directly into the river. The had provided some rocks to help prevent erosion, which was why they had the slide.

To get back to the 'real' buisness of the forum....

I was working in the mining camp of Silver Peak, Nevada while the silver boom was on early 80's. The mine in production at the time was the Sixteen to one and it was run by Sunshine Mining Co. The miners were contract miners and were well paid. They spent most of it at the three bars in town. I remember well the silver rounds that were freely bartered across the bar. At that time silver was fetching around $14-18 per oz. Sunshine miners could buy the silver directly from the mine in one oz rounds that were numbered. One round was worth $20 on the bar as they were hard to come by. Local folks bought them like candy from the bar keep. More on this latter.....

Anybody out there have stories of gold/silver being used as 'real money'?

Rx Gold

Interstate (03/02/02; 15:58:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 71010)
@Cavan Man

You hit upon a theme that I seem to hear more and more, and a possibility that I'd like to explore. "We are an EXPERIMENT". Several years ago I read a book (sci-fi) about another planet's inhabitants coming to this planet (earth) for the sole purpose of mining gold and returning it to their planet. However, the mining was very hard physical labor, so they created an experiment (us, humans) to be their slave labor. That was just the first few pages, then it went on to give the history of man and gold down through the ages and their relationship. but after many years, the eathlings learned the many uses and value of gold and decided they wanted to keep it from their masters, and the story goes on.

But it made an impression on me - one more possibility of our existence with our love of gold.
Thank you for reviving that thought. Later,Interstate



Black Blade (03/02/02; 15:26:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 71009)
Rx Gold - CBM Data and Water Remediation Costs
http://www.energyintel.com/ResDocDetail.asp?document_id=41286

Snippit:

I understand that many coalbed methane producers had figured they could profit in the Powder River Basin at a price of gas from $.80 Mcf to $1.60 Mcf, the going rate today on the market has held steady for the past several months at over $5.00 an Mcf and is trading on the futures market today at over $8.00Mcf. The projections are that gas will hold steady at $5.00 over the next two years. Furthermore, the DEQ has also determined in a review based on industry's own economic analysis of water treatment and reinjection options that at a market price of $4.00/Mcf, "…implementation of the most expensive option (ion exchange at $1.42 Mcf) may a yield a net profit of $1.43 Mcf and could provide a sufficient rate of return to support full development of the resource.


Black Blade: Funny, I would like to know the source of this data. If you provide it please direct me to the source. Currently NG spot is $2.36 Mcf (variable depending on which hub - see URL). The futures prices are nowhere near those quoted in the article. Also that does not even factor in service and pipeline fees. Perhaps you could provide me production costs for the various producers as well. I do agree that there should be no breaks to any business, including the government subsidies for all users of the land, including the miners, gentlemen ranchers and farmers. It should be a pure free market play.

BTW, 23 N. Scott St. - isn't that the Sierra Club office near the intersection of Main and Coffeen? And aren't both these organizations affiliated. Hmmm…


Boilermaker (03/02/02; 15:25:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 71008)
GE's Agenda
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/020302/business_bizge_dc_1.html
Check out GE's latest ad strategy, real vs. paper.

snippet;

"GE is touting its industrial and technological might, something that was considered passe by many during the go-go 1990s, says Jack Trout, a marketing strategist at the helm of Trout & Partners Ltd.

``This is the return of the big-time industrialist making stuff, selling stuff -- real stuff,'' he said.

Largely absent from the new ads are references to the company's financial services arm, GE Capital, which contributed a whopping 40 percent of GE's $13.7 billion in earnings last year."

``People understand microwave ovens and sonograms as somehow being useful. (Lending) is not typically the type of thing you associate with corporate munificence,'' said Bob Garfield, television commercial critic for Advertising Age magazine, and co-host of National Public Radio's 'On the Media.' ``Jesus didn't clear the temple of the toaster users, he cleared it of the money lenders.''

Boilermaker:
This smells like a smokescreen for a shaky credit business. Maybe not, but if they were serious they would put the accounting cards on the table and reveal details about what's in their finance business "assets" and the performance of these assets.

RobotGuy (03/02/02; 15:11:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 71007)
@Darkhorse re:Personal agendas
I am responsible for some of these posts. I know what you're talking about, and I don't think it's a terrible thing. We're all sensible people, and I think some of us develop a closeness in this forum, and perceive others as our friends. Sometimes individuals share personal goals and desires with their friends in hopes for some sort of feedback, it's human nature. I do try to make an effort to keep my posts gold/market/political related, but sometimes I will veer slightly from those topics.

Boilermaker (03/02/02; 14:36:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 71006)
Waste disposal
Disposal of my (Ohio) oil well brine (production water) must be done by a licensed hauler who takes it to a disposal well for reinjection. In the good old days each well including mine had a "soup" hole next to it for surface brine disposal. Stricter disposal rules were established because sometimes brine was discharged directly into streams causing fishkill and downstream quality problems. It costs me about $2.00/bbl to dispose of production water and since my well is 50/50 oil/water I pay $2.00/bbl for water disposal for each bbl oil produced. Also in my production costs are the $3.00/ bbl oil discount that my oil purchaser pays me to pick up crude from my on-site tank battery, ie., if I were to call in a pickup today I would get $19/bbl instead of the terminal price of $22/bbl.

It's just a matter of economics whether the enviornmentally friendly disposal costs can be justified. Even as a producer I would much prefer to have the appropriate disposal regs established and then let the market price for the product determine if it's feasible to drill and produce.
The real problem occurs when the investment in production is started under the more lenient rules and then is changed so that the original investment would not have been justified.

This subject is appropriate for this forum because the same disposal/reclamation issues are faced in the mining and separation of gold. In fact one of my gold mining investments is currently prevented from mining their deposit due to a Montana ban on the the most efficient technology that is used by others with great sucess.


Mr Gresham (03/02/02; 12:32:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 71005)
Rx Gold
Thanks for a reasoned response. I feel passionately about these things, too, when the information has gotten through my thick cranium. I'm about overdue to grab up my lance and ride off on my charger to make one of these causes my life (or next decade) legacy work. (Kinda boxed in at the moment, though.)

I'd just like it to be with someone like BB, who sounds like he's been around a few skirmishes, or you maybe, in my company. With that blood, I know that when he looks across at the other side, and tells me "Today is a good day to die. Bring it on, m***********s." we're gonna count some coup.

You never know what activities a good board could morph into or spin off. Good minds meeting at their best, weeding out the propaganda on all sides -- anything could happen.

Cavan Man (03/02/02; 12:32:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 71004)
nickel62
"What has america come to?"
My friend, we've come to the end of the "america" which, in my not so humble opinion is more than a place; more than just a piece of planet earth's real estate. America is at once a concept, a dream, and ideal, an experiment. Today, she is but a cipher of her former self. The future of this country is very clouded. I admit to loving this country dearly but, I doubt my children will be raised here.

May God have mercy upon us because no one else will.

darkhorse (03/02/02; 12:25:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 71003)
Pardon me if I'm mistaken...
but I thought this forum was to center on gold, the economy and stuff like geo-politics and the influences it has on the former. I agree that oil/NG and energy in general has a big impact on our subject here, but it seems to me that some of the posts have turned more towards personal agendas than anything to do with our normal discussions. Anybody else notice this, or am I mistaken?

Rx Gold (03/02/02; 12:15:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 71001)
@ All
http://www.powderriverbasin.org/press_releases/our_comments_deq.htm
Snip of link.

"At current market prices for methane, all 4 treatment or disposal options may be economically feasible." It seems clear that the industry can easily afford to treat and dispose of the produced water in an environmentally responsible fashion. And finally, on this subject of economics, complying with both state and federal laws and regulations is a cost of doing business and if some in this industry have failed to factor that cost into their business plan it is not the regulators nor the public's responsibility to bail them out or cut them a break.

We have the tools and the ability to solve these problems before they occur, we need the leadership, vision and cooperation to get it done. I hope we do not look back on this development at a series of environmental disasters that becomes the textbook example of what could have, or should have been done. We owe it to ourselves and to the generations that will follow to do it right the first time, to take the preventative measures that will protect our water quality and the environment and still allow the development to proceed and prosper




Rx Gold (03/02/02; 11:46:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 71000)
@Mr Gresham
http://www.powderriverbasin.org/
An excellent point Sir. I have been out working and chewing on my response. I do realize that I made a mistake and although I can never take it back I can hope for forgiveness from the forum. I will certainly try to maintain in the future.

For those interested in the situation that we are discussing they may go to the above link to learn more.

Rx Gold

admin (03/02/02; 10:24:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 70999)
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Mr Gresham (03/02/02; 09:46:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 70998)
Rx Gold
There's a point, perhaps more obvious to the outside reader than to the writer, where it turns from the topic to the personal. We've mostly done a good job of avoiding that here. I want to continue to value your contributions, as it seems you have been on some good topics lately.

nickel62 (03/02/02; 09:46:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 70997)
The real meaning of Skilling's testimony!
What Skilling said:SKILLING: Yes, Enron was a result of the merger in the middle 1980's of two pipeline companies. As the markets began to go through deregulation in the last 80's, that business became very tough. And in the late 80's, a decision was made to really kick off two new businesses: a wholesale merchant business, which was really to start participating in the new deregulated markets for natural gas, and an international development business that was building power plants and pipelines around the world. I was really brought in to start and manage that merchant -- wholesale merchant business.

What he meant: This was a simple bunch of boring businesses and I came in and got Wall Street involved in creating a supposed "energy trading business" that was built on slight of hand using accounting loopholes. We then started using the fabricated revenue growth to suck in unwitting investors who thought we actually were making money. I sold a lot of stock at the top but not all so that I could claim I was a victim if it all came tumbling down. Don't worry though I hid enough of the money from my stock sales that I will be fine no matter what happens. Why does my mother come out in public and call me a liar? I don't know she must have facts I don't chose to admit.

nickel62 (03/02/02; 09:20:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 70996)
Skillings Testimony
I find that I just can not listen to so much bs in one sitting anymore. I tried to watch Larry King playing softball with Skilling and his lawyer last night and had to turn the channel. I tried to read the transcripts posted here this morning and couldn't make it more then half way through. How long is the US public going to believe this crap? I was the CEO and oh by the way creator of and sole employee of this thing called "the Enron wholesale merchant business" appropriately named Enron Financial. And Skilling expects the public to believe that while he was promoted to CEO in his early forties his ten years with the firm never allowed him to in anyway have any knowledge or involvement with the financial rigging that brought the firm down. My God man, do you think the entire world is as stupid as your regulators? This apotheosis of "Clinton speak" makes me even more sick than Hillary and Bill used to. Where are the questions about why since nobody seems to have a clue what happened at Enron, how about the simple obstruction of justice by the shredding of all the records that would have made liars out of these crooks. How about the "suicide" of the main potential witness? What has America come to?

Rx Gold (03/02/02; 09:00:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 70995)
@Black Blade
I see that you have changed your position from 'Holier than thou' to 'So, sue me'. As you know, there are lawsuits in place now and others that are in the works. All this does is make the shark profession richer (I have two in the family).

Rx Gold

Rx Gold (03/02/02; 08:53:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 70994)
@ Black Blade
Dear Sir


Siochain (03/02/02; 08:45:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 70993)
@Christian
Well spoken....and let us not forget the drum beat for privatization of social security. This is but another ploy to get dollars into the stock market.

The stock market MUST be kept up no matter who gets hurt. Should confidence in the SM fall, there will be a rapid flight of investment out of US...and concurrently out of dollars. This, of course, can be brought about by other things re Japan...oil/Euro but I believe that as long as the Market can be held together with stirng and chewing gum and whatever else can be found....the game will continue.

This is a race against time...companies do not appear to be recovering, Yes, there may be some blips for inventory replacement in the near future...but the only thing holding us up is the consumer...question is...when will American consumers fully awaken to the shell and shill game?...and most of all, the loss of many priciples upon which The US was founded.


"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of
adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than
bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question it's methods or throw light upon it's
crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of
the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe..corporations have been enthroned and an era of
corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong
it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of
a few, and the Republic is destroyed. --Abraham Lincoln



nickel62 (03/02/02; 08:26:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 70991)
GoldnSilver 2002
Has there been a rash of mergers in the juniors that you are aware of? Or are you referring to the Newmont-FN-Normandy type of thing? I would be interested in any low profile mergers in gold mining companies. There are substantial numbers of old mines out there that if merged into one company might make a decent investment for a rising market. Dayton Mining, Aetna-Expatriate with the Wolverine mine, Freeport McMoran Copper and Gold and anybody who could ensure that the chance of confiscation by the Indonesian government was lower or a host of other properties which have languished with the decline of the last six years.

Christian (03/02/02; 05:59:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 70990)
boe auction
The so called last boe auction is not the last auction. There will be a new anouncement soon. On this so called last auction, like all other auctions, no physical gold is (was) sold. It is simply an exchange of gold sold forward. The Bank of England and Greenspan are pulling a Skilling. Greenspan wants to drain the entire Treasury of every last bar of gold and place it into private hands. This is also true with the gold that so to speak belongs to the people of England. Same is happening to most other countries around the world. The Fed can and will print an indefinite number of dollars to support the stock market. Presently the Fed is the biggest buyer of stocks. It already owns the GSE's and in most part the bond market. The Fed is presently monetizing Japan's holdings of Treasury's. The only limiting factor of Greenspan's scheme is he cannot print gold. Hedge funds are buying physical gold to use as credit creation just like central banks use gold for. Soros, Gates, Buffet (sp) are all doing the same thing. Right now it is better to be long gold then to short the stock market. But this only works if corporations can put all this new money to productive use. Right now that is not happening. Our national on the books national debt and off book gold short positions are increasing at the fastest rate ever recorded in history. Real productivity is going down under the stress of too much debt. This military spending to commit destruction is not positive productivity. Nothing real is constructed that will help improve the living conditions of most people. Politicians like many trees in our dying forests have the same problem. They are crooket, not straight, have a crook, dishonest. --Greenspan at a BIS meeting said " "my dog can lick anyone.

GoldnSilver2002 (03/02/02; 02:10:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 70989)
Last boe auction,the well run dryeth...
I must say i'm impressed in golds climb despite the dow up and the upcoming Bank of england auction on tuesday.One must wonder which bank will want to unload now?March could be a very bloody month for those in the gold derivatives such as JPM chase.Japans govt insurance on bank deposits over $75,000 comes off april 1st and the chinese say they will open their gold exchange in the first quarter.

Have you noticed the sudden rash of mergers in goldmines lately?They dont want to admit,they know gold is set to explode.But if they say so they will have to pay more for the smaller gold companies they are buying up.We saw gold jump up $25 in one week recently,and i believe March will be the month gold starts to shine.Those Japanese are shrewd and they have a lot of savings to go up in smoke.Once JPM gets in trouble,another of golds major foes will stumble.Bundesbank,another major player'showed its hand by bluffing a sale it cant do until 2004 under the washington agreement.

A good test will be how POG reacts to the last BOE auction,if it quickly rises through $300 afterwards it means the price only dropped so someone could buy more at a cheap price,once again fleecing Boe.


Black Blade (3/2/02; 00:46:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 70988)
¡Ola Waverider!


La manera mejor de aprender el idioma espa--ol es al imerse a s' mismo en el idioma y cultura. Yo nunca fui a la escuela para aprender el idioma. Yo aprend' de mi amigos de ni--ez y sus familias. Mis amigos eran Mexicanos y Cubanos. Yo tengo unos amingos de Espa--a y Basque amigos del region in el Norte cerca San Fermin (qué es un lengua muy diferente de castellano). Un colega académico m'o fue a ense--ar geolog'a en Chile. Él vivi-- primero en Chile durante tres meses que aprenden el lengua primero. Afortunadamente espa--ol es un idioma bastante fácil para aprender. ¡Suerte buena!

- Black Blade

BTW, my plate is full.


Black Blade (3/2/02; 00:27:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 70987)
Rx Gold - Coal Bed Methane

I wouldn't know about Redstone Gas Partners or Fidelity Exploration's operations, as I don't do business with them. I have minimal contact with JM Huber though. Most of my business is with companies out of Gillette. There are regulations as to the amount of discharge into the Tongue River and much of that is related to the amount of run off water flow. As you know there has been a drought the last two years here. Therefore the runoff levels have been very low. There may be recourse if these regulations are being ignored and the proper channels are through the regulating agencies and perhaps the courts. I seriously doubt that the revenue that you cite for Redstone is reflective of reality though, especially in view of the current low NG prices and the onerous pipeline fees involved. Besides, I am quite familiar with the geology and the questionable quality of the coals involved in this area.

As I have said - if one steals land from the original owners to farm and ranch, then there is no right to complain as I see it (after all I'm part Oglala Lakota Sioux - supposedly of the Tapisleca band). Life is not fair, nor is it supposed to be perhasps). It would appear that your argument is with the US Government and the energy addicts in California who demand that the methane be produced. There is certainly something to be said about owning the mineral rights. Like a bumper sticker I once saw - "The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not the mineral rights". Cheers!

- Black Blade




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