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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/2/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

YGM (05/02/00; 23:57:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 29807)
ThaiGold....
ORO is Right...
& not just about high finance and Gold ....you are needed as are new posters to keep this discussion board alive. Diversity makes this place more appealing....IMHO....YGM.

Come out of the Shadows....people!! Speak up and liven up this place......Share your thoughts with the rest of us...

DK (05/02/00; 23:45:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 29806)
ThaiGold
I've lurked here without participating for a long time basically because I'm well infomed but this is not my area of expertise. Call it deference or enlightened self- interest. I keep up with several econmic discussions but generally read only a few favorites consistently. You're one of them. Your last is a good example why. Using silver to avoid confiscation and your speculation re. oil-gold are completely original, logical and practical. You might consider that one difference here from face-to-face discussions is that if we were in the same room I would be required to acknowledge I heard but you wouldn't need it anyway. You'd see it. On the oter hand writing you a formal acknowledgement to the site seems awkward and a waste of every other member's time. In any case, please reconsider. Thanks.

ORO (05/02/00; 23:01:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 29805)
ThaiGold - stay

This forum is pretty staid, so don't jump if a daily posting of an index seems less than exciting. I, for one, search for your patsy index at the end of each day.

I am with you on the investment in gold shares and I am with traders when future volatility is sufficient to justify the quick trader's play. However, physical gold and silver - and I dare say Platinum and its cousins too - are not speculative vehicles, nor are they liquid short term investments, nor are they intermediate term investments. They are insurance against a fiduciary system wildly flailing as it tries to keep itself from drowning in its own excreta of nearly seven decades.

The bank statistics I follow indicate a system in critical condition. That all attempts are being made to keep the system of fiduciary obligations from failing should come as no surprise. All possible favors are being called in from any who have gold or silver on hand.

There is no way to tell exactly when the system breaks. But break it will. Carry trades are threatening to unwind, but all bankers have come up with as a solution is extending the carry trades.

I share your frustration with the fact that often a post will recieve no responses. Often the post will be met with responses containing no new insights or good criticism. Yet if you don't post your view and your questions, you would not have a chance for response at all.

So I urge you to continue posting, when time and subject matter permit I, for one, will respond.

Chris Powell (05/02/00; 22:00:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 29804)
Others are starting to sound like GATA
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/445?
Maybe it's still too early for GATA to start saying
"we told you so," but others are starting to say
the same things as GATA and maybe events are at
least starting to bear us out.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email
and get them immediately so you don't have
to go look for them, send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com

The Invisible Hand (05/02/00; 21:49:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 29803)
POG in euro
gold down, dollar up vis-a-vis euro, this could mean gold up again in euro (gold gained 20 % in euro the last fourteen months).
here in the Southern Philippines, I have no access to WSJ or FT.
can anybody direct me to a website quotimg gold (and Maple Leafs) in euro (and Belgian francs)?

ThaiGold (05/02/00; 21:41:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 29802)
NEM up 12.53% & XAU up 9.85% Today. And I'm Fed Up.
Attn: Solomon Weaver (05/02/00; 19:52:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 29794)
===========================================================================
....
...
..
To: Soloman Weaver
To: All

NEM Link: http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=NEM&d=1d
XAU Link: http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU&d=1d

Soloman Weaver, I'd like to update the percentage figure you posted.
You said 10%. It was infact 12.53%.!. Just thought someone might like
to know that it was even higher than your wonderful post mentioned.

I share your Share elation, today. Pun intended. The slow but steady
rise of Newmont (NEM/nyse) is something I've beeen harping about all
last week or so, in my "PATSY Index Comments (discontinued due to
lack of interest amongst the Forum's apparent non-readers).

Big-Money began moving into NEM Gold shares last week (!), even though
the XAU, and Gold was lethargic-to-declining. Nobody believed me nor
seemed to care. Whatever. You can lead a horse to water, but...

I agree with you, that soon we share holders may be able to take
some welcome profits, and I for one plan to plow some of them into
physical Silver (MK: standby your phone.!.) which I believe is one
of your (Soloman Weaver) other favorites. And I tried to enliven the
Forum's discussion with some posts asking "why was Silver not confiscated
in the FDR 1933 sham?" There was only one response, and that one even
skirted the issue entirely. The question remains unanswered.!.

And it still seems to me, that Physical Silver would be a good alternative
to "pre-1933" Gold coins, for those worried about the confiscation issue.
Yet nobody in the Forum seems to hear my Voice from the Wilderness.

Is it any wonder that many posters lose interest and fade away from
the Forum. It seems often merely a Mutual Admiration Society, which
remains closed to new-ideas and new-thinkings. Unless a poster is one
of the In-Crowd, or FOA-Worshipper, he is relegated to Court-Jester
status, totally ignored, or simply considered a CrackPot.

Today, I received a single e-mail response from a Forum stalwart, to my
earlier post regarding a new-theory about soaring Gold Exports:
Here's his illuminating in depth response to me:

[quote]
Come in out of the rain ! You are all wet !
Could you be looking at a grain of sand and not see the beach?
[unquote]

I assume his comment is friendly, and meant to be a good natured jibe
to me, as I thought we were e-mail friends, and on similar wavelengths.
I'll contact him later, if I can figure out what to say.

Once again, to the Forum, I'd like to put some thoughts on the table:

(1) Physical PM's are of course the best way to protect wealth.
(2) The FOA/ANOTHER scenarios are Long-Term, possibly years away.
(3) Many investor's prefer Capital Gains and or Dividends. Sooner.
(4) Am I "Talking My Book?" YES.
(5) Am I "Putting my Money Where my Mouth is?" ... YES
(6) Manipulation may or may-not be an issue.
(7) The "Oil-For-Gold" scenario has a simpler COMEX/LBMA method.
(8) And it drives down the POG often, in a previously unmentioned manipulation.
(9) How else does Big-Oil convert it's massive US$ revenue into Physical Gold.?.

Frankly, I'm beginning to feel that it's pointless to try to post or talk
sense into this Forum and am inclined to fade away, myself. I'm sure I will
not be missed. "Is this Sour Grapes".?. Nope. Just Reality. I'm fed up.

Cordially,

ThaiGold
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
==============================================================================

TheStranger (05/02/00; 21:41:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 29801)
A Comment On The Strength In Newmont (since it is my biggest holding)
I think it noteworthy for all gold investors that, while bullion traded at an 8-month low just yesterday, Newmont scored what I think is a 7-month high TODAY. Why should this matter to us all? Because important gold rallies have a way of beginning in the mining stocks first.

Someone recently argued the point that, if gold were about to rally, the XAU would be making new highs, not plumbing the depths. But didn't we all learn last October that a rally in gold can be even worse for some miners than is a decline? No wonder the XAU was struggling.

No, I think such strength in the one BIG miner which is widely known not to hedge (for the most part) is a clear sign of the kind of mining stock accumulation by institutional investors that often precedes a rally for the metal.

As an aside...
This may be happening at a very favorable time. First, for the stock market as a whole, many lock-ups are now set to expire. Second, this Thursday is likely to bring "disappointing" productivity numbers (which should have "ominous" inflation implications). Third, the truth about lackluster revenues in techland is now steadily dribbling out. Fourth, any optimism associated with earnings season is now past. Fifth, the FOMC is about to raise interest rates again. And, finally sixth, May isn't normally a very good month for stocks anyway.

This thing may be about to rattle some teeth.

Peter Asher (05/02/00; 21:11:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 29800)
Caven Man
Please feel free to be "Long in the tooth" any time you have some esential historical data to relate to us. The "War on Gold" is a war against the minds of men. Any knowledge invoving that greatest of conflicts is "on topic IMO.

Regarding your "Birtday" post this morning: >>Many thanks to MK, FOA, Aristotle, ORO, The Stranger, SteveH, Farfel, Solomon Weaver, Peter Asher, and the many others here too numerable to mention who have helped along the trail.<<<

Et tu, mon ami!

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 20:44:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 29799)
ss of nep 29734 (Historical, off topic discussion)
Hello. Hegel I know not. The Council of Nicea I know a little bit about and I humbly submit you are both right and wrong. Off topic then and quickly.......

The "Church of Rome" was not "established at Nicea in the 4th century although you are most certainly right about Constantine's most obvious motivations. There is but one Christian Church and that is the Church of Jesus Christ. This "One, Holy and Cathoilc Apostolic Church began with the Apostles, disciples, Saints, Martyrs and otherwise followers of Jesus (the Christ) of Nazareth.

Doctrine and tradition slowly evolved over the decades and several centuries; the Church began to take shape and the Gospel Message was spread. You are correct when you state and I paraphrase, there were many differences of opinion on key and core issues of a theological nature hence, the first seven councils of the Church. These differences of opinion were described in the context of the times as "heresies". The purpose of the first seven "counsels" was to come to agreement through discussion and prayer on the many divisive issues of the day. For example, was Christ both God and Man? The Nicene, Constantinopolitan or Apostles Creed many employ weekly in liturgy and services was a product of the meeting at Nicea. I refer you to it. Again, Constantine certainly desired cohesion and order in the empire.

What began with the death of Jesus Christ was the ancient Christian Church aka the Orthodox Church today. There were five original Patriarchates or, centers; Rome, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch and Constantinople. At that time and even today, the Bishop of Rome is considered "first among equals"; in other words, chairman of the board. However, the key point to understand is all important decisions were made in "counsel". The "Church of Rome" did not begin to take shape until the 11th century.

The "dark ages" began with the fall of Rome and the downfall of western civilzation. For a period of 1000 years after say, 432 AD (anno domini), the original and Apostolic Church continued to flourish in the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantines were the cultural elite of the known world for 1000 years. The Crusades and the indigineous peoples of "the east" changed all that. Sorry, I'm long in the tooth here.

Anyway, it was the Irish who preserved so much of the literature and prominent writings including the Scriptures during the dark ages. These were later re-introduced during the middle ages in an evangelical context. Many agree the Renaissance began in the West as a product of the migration of people, culture, ideas etc owing to the invasion of the east by what would today be described as Moslem peoples.

Today, we indeed have a "Church of Rome" and then, there is the original version. All is in the history books. I take no sides nor have no favorites. I am a seeker of truth. Thank you...CM

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 20:11:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29798)
Solomon Weaver
Gates owns 10.3% of PAAS.

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 20:10:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 29797)
Galearis
Now, where have I heard that line of reasoning before?

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that so many "clear thinkers" like rhody are all basically on the same page in the same book singing the same tune.

Solomon Weaver (05/02/00; 20:05:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 29796)
(No Subject)
Cavan Man thanked me today for a note I posted a while ago...

The Cafe seems to have confirmed that Buffet is still long silver, which I assume means most of what he bought already...which is over 50% of the standing inventory worldwide!!!! A corner on the market with no fanfare!!!!

Anyway, in light of this, I will once again advise any and all of you to call up Rosie Moore, Vice President of Corporate Relations at Pan American Silver (604) 684-1175 and request an investor package (with 1999 annual report). The report has excellent graphics on silver supply demand etc. PAAS is the company that Bill Gates made a big investment in last year...and they are one of the few companies in the world who are trying to manage as many primary silver mines as possible...although I give no investment advice here, a solid read of their annual report would make anyone a better informed silver and silver mining investor..

And like I always say..."silver is the poor man's gold".

Poor old Solomon

Leland (05/02/00; 20:02:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 29795)
ced_s --- Let's Publish That Letter on USAGold

Controlling gold
By Ed Stuart
Columbus

The government has determined that Microsoft is a trust.
That is interesting as it seems the government of the U.S.
and banking interests have colluded to control the price
of gold and silver, making it unattractive as an investment
vehicle. They have removed international monetary
systems from the gold standard, but for 75 percent of
the world, gold is still the ultimate store of wealth.

Bill Murphy and Chris Powell are founders of the Gold
Anti-Trust Action. They maintain a Web site named Le
Metropole Caf�. In the caf� are many articles written by
experts in the economics and financial fields. I also must
give credit to the forum at Gold Eagle for many hours of
interesting reading.

When I discussed gold at work, the first statement I
heard was gold has been demonetized. As I have since
learned gold has been demonized, not demonetized.

The Russians and Chinese are buying gold for their
official gold holdings. Asia and the Orient import a large
quantity also, mostly for private investment, and demand
is increasing. In India families will go hungry before they
sell their gold. To these people gold is the ultimate
storehouse of wealth. Gold mine supply in 1999 was
only 2,559 tons.

Frank Veneroso, an internationally recognized financial
consultant has determined the supply/demand deficit is
1,500 to 2,000 tons annually. This deficit is being made
up by gold leasing and gold sales from central banks.
The British and Swiss gold sales are designed to be a
negative reinforcement to the price of gold as well as put
supply into the market.

According to Ted Butler, silver is in extremely short
supply and could explode upwards at any time,
overwhelming those institutions that have capped the
silver price. This could create a hazard to the
international banking system. No one wants that as this
could totally devastate the international economy.

When I read in The Republic that Kuwait was loaning its
gold, I knew there would be a further official
announcement. Within two or three days, I read the
U.S. was increasing its military presence in Kuwait. A
few weeks ago in the Sunday edition of The Republic,
China announced the cost of holding its silver was
expensive (in China?) and was allowing its silver
producers to sell their silver outside of China.

Again within a few days it was announced that the U.S.
supported the Chinese in its One China policy, and more
recently there was no opposition to China's acceptance
into the WTO based on human rights violations.
Coincidence? I think not.

GATA has found that the Exchange Stabilization Fund, a
government agency headed by the secretary of the
Treasury, is responsible only to the president, and has
no reporting requirements to Congress, the probable
agency involved.

The ESF in collusion with major banks are capping the
price of gold regardless of the damage done to the
mining industry and the loss of jobs in Third World
countries. From Greg Pickup of GATA, the top seven
banks involved in this gold suppression have gold
financial derivatives totaling 72.9 billion in place. I
wondered why a BBC article I read recently
commented about the suppression of the gold price and
relating it to the "mountain of derivatives," now I know.

Greg Pickup states the total assets of these seven banks
is $1.8 trillion, the total derivative position is 32.6 trillion.
Is it any wonder Greenspan said that financial derivatives
should not be regulated in a "free market," as did
Secretary of the Treasury Summers. It sounds to me as
if the term should be manipulated market, not free.

GATA has a stack of evidence it will be taking to
Congress soon. This should be an interesting summer.

From THE REPUBLIC, Columbus Indiana's Online Newspaper, and
Fair Use Protections Apply.

Solomon Weaver (05/02/00; 19:52:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 29794)
Newmont Mining up 10% today.....did that "outperform the market?"
http://moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/webquote.dll?iPage=qd&Symbol=nem
After buying Newmont for $27 per share about 2 years ago, I finally feel vindicated today to see it up almost $3 to close almost at $27. But the last time the POG was at around $270-280, NEM was usually around $18.

It seems what is going on is that now that the whole stock market is dropping, the "relative strength" of NEM and other gold stocks is showing up...and I suspect that some of the money now flowing in could be "momentum money". Also, gold stocks are STOCKS, which mean if you buy some, you or your broker gets little certificates delivered...like in "taking delivery" of the company.

I will agree with Trail Guide that there is no substitute for gold in hand, but I suspect that there could be a significant rally in gold stocks in the shorter term...and if the gold shorts have their way, the profits from gold stock sales "might" still be able to buy real gold. I am taking a different approach. I own NEM in my IRA only...where it is harder to own gold...if NEM makes a big run, I can rotate a little.

Poor old Solomon

Chris Powell (05/02/00; 19:50:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 29793)
Midas commentary for May 2
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/444?
The XAU explodes, and here's GATA Chairman
Bill Murphy's "Midas" commentary about it.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email
and get them immediately so you don't have
to go look for them, send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com

Solomon Weaver (05/02/00; 19:40:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 29792)
Swiss are getting more than money for their gold.
lamprey_65 (05/02/00; 10:35:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 29756)
Interesting Post on Kitco
Allen over at Kitco thinks the Swiss are de-linking their currency from gold because they expect the metal to ramp much higher...this would boost the currency to such an extent that exports would dwindle and the economy would suffer. Interesting theory -- I never did understand why the Swiss, of all people, would want to de-link...any thoughts on this?
-----------
Lamprey, I tend to agree with this idea..... I lived in Switzerland from 1987 to about 1994...during those years, there was a massive amount of "structural change" in Europe...all heading towards free trade. As wealthy as the Swiss are in assets, they need to have jobs to survive...and they historically were strong exporters only of financial services, pharmaceuticals, tourism, and some specialties like chocolate and watches....and yet they are a highly educated and very hard working society.

Now imagine this part....about 7 years ago, Switerland was one of the "first" countries to vote on joining the EU - and die Volk haben NIEN damals gesagt. HAD THEY SAID YES THEN, the little country of 7 million could have had a lot of clout in forming policies for the 300+ million union. Now, by joining in late, they are just a miniscule addition....except for their massive gold reserves...my sense is that even though they are only going to get $300 for some of their gold now...behind that they are "buying" some well needed influence. Because they will join the EU...one thing to look forward too is CH becoming the home of more international organisations.

Poor old Solomon

Peter Asher (05/02/00; 19:27:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 29791)
ced_s (05/02/00; 17:06:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 29784)
Very well done Ed. Also was good to read the article "A touching story" for on ongoing synopsis on the politicaly correct, controlled press.

Bonedaddy (05/02/00; 19:16:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 29790)
ss of nep
Thank you for the link you provided. Later, I'm going to go over there and digest some of that. I just wanted you to know that I like your view about where all this is leading. If one understands who the "Deceiver" is, then it is easier for one to see sin as confusion. When we confuse what "is right", with what "we wish right to be", that is where we fall into the pit. If one persues this train of thought very far, it becomes abundantly clear that the virtues we call "morality" are provided to us solely by the grace of the Almighty, for our own protection. To Paraphrase Solomon, he wrote that when wisdom cries out to us and we fail to heed her warning, she will scoff at us later when we fall. Indeed, all that glitters is NOT GOLD. May wisdom and grace preserve you in the hour of testing. -Bd

USAGOLD (05/02/00; 19:10:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 29789)
For the Record:
World Gold Council: Swiss Gold in Perspective

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 2, 2000--The announcement by the Swiss National Bank that
it has begun its gold programme and intends to place an initial 120 tonnes by the end of September has
been long-expected and is well within the limits set by the Washington Agreement on Gold.

``This sale does no more than indicate that the Washington Agreement, which the World Gold Council
welcomed when it was announced in September 1999, is being adhered to,'' said Miss Haruko Fukuda, chief executive of the Council. ``The
Council recognises that entrusting the programme to the Bank for International Settlement is probably one of the least disruptive of alternative
channels - in sharp contrast to the auction methods chosen by the UK government.''

``Gold provides a unique and important role in reserve asset management and gives stability, even in times of currency turmoil. We believe it
should remain as a vital component of official sector reserves, and the WGC will continue to work with central banks and governments throughout
the world to encourage them to maintain a significant proportion of gold in their national reserves. I note that the Swiss National Bank itself
emphasises that Switzerland will remain one of the most important holders of gold in the world.''

Switzerland is constitutionally required to maintain a significant level of gold in its reserves. Like all other major official holders of gold, the Swiss
have also made clear that gold will remain an important element in international reserves for the foreseeable future.

The World Gold Council

The World Gold Council is an international association of leading gold producers, which was founded in 1987 with the primary aims of promoting
gold as a financial and monetary asset and of increasing demand for gold world-wide. The WGC has its central headquarters in London and
maintains regional offices in New York, Singapore and Dubai and local centres in several cities in India, the Far East and Latin America.

BACKGROUND TO SWISS ANNOUNCEMENT

This memorandum gives some background to the latest situation in respect to the Swiss gold programme.

It is now over three years since the Swiss government, proposed to help finance a humanitarian Solidarity Foundation by selling some official
gold. At the same time, the Swiss National Bank determined that it had excessive capital in relation to its requirements. The SNB is owned by
Federal and cantonal governments (with some private shareholding without voting rights). The SNB decided that it could reduce its capital by
handing back some of the gold to its shareholders. Making that possible involved new legislation, constitutional change and a referendum. The plan
broadened; the proceeds from gold sales could finance not only humanitarian aid but might also be put to other good uses as well.

Last September's Washington Agreement implies that the SNB has a quota of 120 tonnes to sell by end September 2000. Politicians sense that the
Swiss people are not against gold sales per se, but very sensitive to how the proceeds are spent. The Swiss public is not prepared to tolerate
large-scale gold sales purely to rebalance the portfolio of the SNB. Gold sales, on such a scale, are acceptable only if a suitable purpose for their
proceeds can be found.

This purpose has not been decided. Recently the Federal Council formed working parties to discuss three possible uses - liquidity of the pension
system, computer training and debt reduction. Nothing in the past suggests a quick resolution. The proposal to dedicate gold to the Solidarity
Foundation was taken quite quickly and without consultation. But even that proposal is now embroiled in political controversy.

Political fighting

The right-of-centre Swiss People's Party (SVP), which recently surged into second place in the popular vote, wishes to dedicate all of the gold to
the Swiss pension system (though it should be emphasised that they have not yet clarified whether they would sell the gold and use the proceeds
for the pension fund or hold the gold against future contingencies). It has a referendum initiative gathering signatures now and will almost certainly
obtain the required 100,000 signatures. The SVP would vigorously attack substantive gold sales as being ahead of vital Swiss popular
decision-making. The Social Party (SP), which was a major force behind the gold sales decision, has entered a period of unusual turmoil and
fragmentation. The centre-right parties (FDP and CVP), which lost heavily to the SVP, must decide where to pick fights that they can win,
knowing that the SVP will be highly critical when politically opportune.

What is clear is that Washington Agreement has changed the situation, making Swiss gold sales less disruptive to the market since they will take
place in the framework of a firm international agreement that has market credibility.

schippi (05/02/00; 19:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 29788)
Select Gold ( FSAGX ) Chart
http://www.SelectSectors.com/agpm70.gif
Select Gold breakout in progress!

YGM (05/02/00; 18:28:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 29787)
Positive GATA News.....
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com
Snippet re GATA.......

Some great GATA news to finish up with. A gold producer came through and GATA now has the funds to place an open letter add in Roll Call. The open letter will be addressed to the banking committee members in the U.S Congress about our "Gold Banking Derivative Crisis," document that I am going to personally deliver when I go to Washington. In addition, I will be taking this document for distribution at the June FT Gold Conference in Paris. I intend to pass it out to as many of the press and attendees as I can.

This is a very gratifying development for Chris Powell and I. This means that 5 of the major gold producers are quietly supporting GATA with contributions as are 10 of the smaller gold companies, representing most of the gold producing continents. We will not let any of our supporters down. We ARE going to win the day.

Bill Murphy ( Midas )

YGM (05/02/00; 17:55:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 29786)
Also in Flectenstien article.....
Visibility in an "Invisible trend".......
Quote Excerpt.....

Interestingly, a large Dutch pension firm, PGGM, with about $46 billion in its fund, announced that they were going to put some commodities into their pension allocation. Whether this is anything more than an aberration for the beleaguered commodity markets, only time will tell.....end quote....

Guess how many funds have been slipping into PM stocks
at every opportunity.....How much cash do you think men like Buffet and Soros will sit on in Euros or US $$......They've openly stated that they're selling paper........ I would bet that in a foot-race for Gold and Gold Stocks, that most of those who "THINK" they're in the know and depending on the Cabal to intervene in an upswing in Gold value will find men like these already accross the finish line before Gold hits $350......The block trades in PMs has been very active at Golds lows........We all know who can afford these blocks....Funds and Power Brokers that's who..........Suffer those who "Deny and Dally"...............NO PITY HERE...Not from this "Fed" Up"..
Miner.......YGM.

pdeep (05/02/00; 17:08:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 29785)
Fleck on Market Manipulation
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/insight/contrarian/
Well, if these geniuses are cashing out of the rigged game, where does that leave the average value investor?

"But tell us what you really think. . . In other news, my friend Colin Negrych had an interesting take on the recent demise of the big hedge fund operators and I want to share it with readers as food for thought: 'Barton Biggs notes in his piece today. . .three of the best (proven longer term money managers - Julian Robertson, Stanley Druckenmiller and Nicholas Roditi). . .have quit the game. And he sees this development as a very troubling sign because all three investors are serious, intellectual, very bright people who are serious students of investing [who]. . .had employed all the tools and had matchless resources. He is right to
be troubled. No one has yet written a serious article on "what is killing the macro hedge fund managers?' for
the Wall Street Journal or the Financial Times. The answer is clear: We are in a period of unprecedented government intervention and manipulation of markets. . .in response to the near (and forthcoming) collapse of the international economic regime."

ced_s (05/02/00; 17:06:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 29784)
Newspaper article I wrote WAS PUBLISHED TODAY
http://www.therepublic.com/
The newspaper article was published, you can view it online.
Go to the above link, then to sound off on left side of screen. then scroll down.
Hope this helps GATA and gold.

SHIFTY (05/02/00; 15:46:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 29783)
The N.Y PONZI
Nasdaq 3,785.45 + Dow 10,731.12 = 14,516.57 divide by 2 = 7,258.28 PONZI

DOWN 126.65 Ponzi Scheming Points!!

Let's HOPE the end is near!!

Galearis (05/02/00; 15:45:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 29782)
A repost from Kitco
Date: Tue May 02 2000 13:29
rhody (LEASE RATES: spreads on gold lease rates have tightened) ID#410367:
Copyright � 2000 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
over the past several days. The spread right now is about .85%. ( the spread is the difference between one month and one year rates ) In the middle of last week the spread was about .94% and seemed stuck at that number for the past two weeks. The shrinkage in spreads has occurred during a period of across the board increase in which one year rates increased the least. Today, one year rates dropped by .09%. So, gold was leased and sold over the past few days, which depressed the price to levels not seen since last August ( inflation factored in ) . Shorting ( leaseing ) is
not rational at 50 year lows ( inflation factored in ) unless one is stupid, or the game is rigged. So, the game is rigged.

But the game is getting expensive and increasingly dangerous as the decreasing spread moves us slowly back to the days of backwardation prior to the BOE sale announcement. Question is, can the tricksters come up with another BOE style lackey. Don't count on the SNB gold sales to bail out the shorts. I think this gold will be quietly disposed through the BIS at prices which be as much political as paper.

The pattern that is beginning to emerge is that gold as a
reserve asset is so hot ( valuable ) that only the world reserve currency nation can hope to hold it as a component of reserves. For all others, such as Canada, Switzerland, Australia, who have real goods output, the presence of gold in their reserves tends to so overvalue their currencies that they cannot hope to sell goods abroad. Canada has had a long standing policy ( since 1985 ) of selling off her gold reserves, which once stood at over 1000 tonnes ) Why? We are a very high percapita trading nation. Traders can't hold gold. Only the world reserve currency nation can afford the burden of gold ownership. Here lies the
explanation of why the USA refuses to sell its gold, and why the BOE, and SNB must. The gold will go to the ECB, for $ plus future considerations as the USD implodes, and the EURO fills the void. The highflying dollar right now is actually a symptom of weakness, as it is the recipient of a EURO and SWISS FRANC currency carry that is expanding the debt base of the ECB as the ECB intentionally keeps its interest rates low. This is a debt trap that will be sprung by a simple raising of interest rates by the ECB. GOLD will explode, and the Fed will have no choice but to raise in retaliation imploding both US bond and stock markets. You know what that will do to the dollar. Worse, as the EURO rises, the carry trades will unwind, feeding the sell off of the dollar. I further predict that as this is about to happen ( interest rate rise ) the gold backing of the EURO will be doubled. The ECB has already publicly discussed
this. All IMHO. If the backing by gold of the EURO doubles,
and the POG doubles, this will give the EURO an effective 60% gold backing, and the Swiss, who have sold 1/2 their gold will be no net poorer for the doubling. ( It would be interesting to find out the nature of the paper received by the SNB for sale of gold. If they are smart, and know what is about to happen, they will be paid in EURO bonds, not dollars. )

TownCrier (05/02/00; 15:39:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29781)
WGC PRESS RELEASE
World Gold Council: Swiss Gold in Perspective

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 2, 2000--The announcement by the Swiss National Bank that it has begun its gold programme and intends to place an initial 120 tonnes by the end of September has been long-expected and is well within the limits set by the Washington Agreement on Gold.

"This sale does no more than indicate that the Washington Agreement, which the World Gold Council welcomed when it was announced in September 1999, is being adhered to," said Miss Haruko Fukuda, chief executive of the Council. "The Council recognises that entrusting the programme to the Bank for International Settlement is probably one of the least disruptive of alternative channels - in sharp contrast to the auction methods chosen by the UK government."

"Gold provides a unique and important role in reserve asset management and gives stability, even in times of currency turmoil. We believe it should remain as a vital component of official sector reserves, and the WGC will continue to work with central banks and governments throughout the world to encourage them to maintain a significant proportion of gold in their national reserves. I note that the Swiss National Bank itself emphasises that Switzerland will remain one of the most important holders of gold in the world."

Switzerland is constitutionally required to maintain a significant level of gold in its reserves. Like all other major official holders of gold, the Swiss have also made clear that gold will remain an important element in international reserves for the foreseeable future.

Hill Billy Mitchell (05/02/00; 15:30:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29780)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.us/releases/H15/update/
Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: May 2, 2000

Rates for Monday, May 1, 2000

Federal funds 6.17

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.00
10-year 6.29
20-year 6.33
30-year 5.98

upside down spread FF vs long bond = (.19%)

Note: sorry about the double post

Hill Billy Mitchell (05/02/00; 15:21:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 29779)
Perspective
It occurred to how comical we gold bugs are. A week or so ago I was in the mood for gold to make it's move. Now I find myself in a pickle. Yesterday locked in 100 ounces of gold eagles for someone else when the spot hit $274. Now I find myself hanging out in never never land because I cannot replace my holdings until Thursday do to a little quirk in my cash and wiring arrangements. I find myself hoping that the price will stay down until at least Thursday afternoon so that when I replace my holdings I will not lose ground.

It depends on your perspective when it comes to these short term movements in POG. Of course my perspective has not waivered since about 1995 concerning the long haul.I am and have been in it for the long haul. The longer the haul the more of the hard stuff I will be able to accumulate.

On Friday I will be back in the position of a normal die-hard gold bug. I will take heart when short-term movements push the price of gold up and feel a little gloomy to see it push the price of gold down, all the while with mixed emotions because when the big one comes I will no longer be able to contentedly accumulate. At some point when accumulation is over for us gold bugs there will be a time to sell a portion. There are a lot of people who will deserve an "I told you so"; however the misery will be so great that compassion will and must set in and we would not have the cruelty required to do such.

What is your perspective. If you are contentedly accumulating then you will not be at all concerned with the daily movements of POG, unless of course you get yourself in a short-term pickle. Not complaining, just amused at myself and the circumstances in which I find myself during the next two days.

hbm

Hill Billy Mitchell (05/02/00; 15:19:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 29778)
Perspective
It occurred to how comical we gold bugs are. A week or so ago I was in the mood for gold to make it's move. Now I find myself in a pickle. Yesterday locked in 100 ounces of gold eagles for someone else when the spot hit $274. Now I find myself hanging out in never never land because I cannot replace my holdings until Thursday do to a little quirk in my cash and wiring arrangements. I find myself hoping that the price will stay down until at least Thursday afternoon so that when I replace my holdings I will not lose ground.

It depends on your perspective when it comes to these short term movements in POG. Of course my perspective has not waivered since about 1995 concerning the long haul.I am and have been in it for the long haul. The longer the haul the more of the hard stuff I will be able to accumulate.

On Friday I will be back in the position of a normal die-hard gold bug. I will take heart when short-term movements push the price of gold up and feel a little gloomy to see it push the price of gold down, all the while with mixed emotions because when the big one comes I will no longer be able to contentedly accumulate. At some point when accumulation is over for us gold bugs there will be a time to sell a portion. There are a lot of people who will deserve an "I told you so"; however the misery will be so great that compassion will and must set in and we would not have the cruelty required to do such.

What is your perspective. If you are contentedly accumulating then you will not be at all concerned with the daily movements of POG, unless of course you get yourself in a short-term pickle. Not complaining, just amused at myself and the circumstances in which I find myself during the next two days.

hbm

Leigh (05/02/00; 15:17:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 29777)
Town Crier and Cavan Man
OK.

TownCrier (05/02/00; 15:08:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 29776)
Poor journalism...this is what we are up against in the quest for truth
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/000502/switzerlan_1.html
In this Associated Press article explaining the basic mechanics of the Swiss allocations to be arranged through the BIS, the AP reporter for no apparent reason includes this line out of the blue among his/her concluding commentary:

"Britain and the International Monetary Fund also have moved to sell off part of their gold reserves."

What agenda is being served by mention of the Brit sales as though it were a separate element not within the limits of the Washington Agreement which the reporter had just finsished describing? And further, the comment regarding IMF selling of gold reserves could NOT be further from the truth. As anyone who follows the news here knows quite well, the IMF has had to throw in the towel on their past fiction that gold's value could be left ignored. As such, they have already begun to mark some of their gold to market valuations in a round-about bookkeeping process that leaves the gold safely in their vaults, but that creates an addtional account with the BIS representing the gold's market value, even as the IMF maintains the book value of SDR 35.

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 15:00:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29775)
Town Crier & Leigh
You make me laugh Ha! I got carried away--too much irrational exuberance you know. :)

TownCrier (05/02/00; 14:55:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 29774)
Lady Leigh, it looks like Sir Cavan Man was saying this...
"This truly is not a market (for gold or any other asset class) [like any] we have seen before."

Leigh (05/02/00; 14:46:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29773)
Cavan Man
"This truly is not a market for gold...." I'm mixed up about what you mean! Could you explain?

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 14:44:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 29772)
SteveH
WOW! My GOLD took off today. Thanks for the "heads up". You know why that is encouraging. Perhaps the buyers today are looking at a rise in POG.

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 14:41:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 29771)
YGM
Yes, he did but I am not sure about his "time frame". If the POG does leap, most here understand there will be collateral damage to those betting on the wrong side of the fence. In that case, beware at least some stocks. If the price does begin to jump, follow the market closely and be prepared for any eventuality. This truly is not a market for gold or any other asset class we have seen before.

SteveH (05/02/00; 14:40:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 29770)
Oh...and oil futures, they are...
up over $1.00 today too!

YGM (05/02/00; 14:39:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29769)
Any Bets....
The Sydney Open...
sees a sharp spike....GO GOLD>>>>
Man there's Gold stocks out there up 20/30/50% today alone and the Goldman crowd having bloody fits...Good on em!........Go GATA.

SteveH (05/02/00; 14:37:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 29768)
Oh...and oil futures, they are...
up over $1.00 today too!

SteveH (05/02/00; 14:35:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 29767)
Well, gold is showing some life, but
the XAU has shown lots of life with GOLD (symbol) up last report 50%. I believe XAU close at 61 today, up over 5. Something is afoot. Standby...

Gandalf, Peter, CM, Stranger, all, you folks awake? I know you are Gandalf (saw your post). Yee...hah!

Duck and Dow down, S&P too.

Heard of a bank today that is 50% off its last year sales-of-mortgages rate.

YGM (05/02/00; 14:12:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 29766)
Knallgold & Cavan Man....
Nationalization was touched upon by FOA in a response to a question of mine long ago......I believe he thought that it may be in the cards but far in the future...? I really don't recall.....

Cavan Man...I recalll the lines but not the time frame..... ......last fall???...........

schippi (05/02/00; 13:25:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 29765)
Select Gold Chart
http://www.SelectSectors.com/agpmx.gif
Breakout in progress?

Gandalf the White (05/02/00; 12:47:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 29764)
Don't look now -- BUT XAU is on a BREAKOUT !
Up over 7.6% on the day and pushing to break 60.
<;-)

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 12:20:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29763)
Solomon Weaver
Thanks. I took your advice and contacted Rosie Moore at PAAS. Having only partially digested the information provide about ag, I am shocked the price is so low.

I believe you are right!

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 12:18:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 29762)
YGM, Knallgold
Do you recall FOA saying the last five years would have been a period to acquire; that the next five years will be a time for the price to rise and that at the end of those (five) years, "we will spend some of our gold". This post is either at the TG page or in the Q1 USAGOLD archives.

Can anyone help with this?

Knallgold (05/02/00; 12:07:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29761)
YGM
Would be 2006-I thought it would take at least 10 years to clear all Gold deficits.
A bad thought: 6 years mine production would give,lets say 15'000 t.The famous short position,ha,if they can get all of the Gold through nationalisation...

YGM (05/02/00; 11:59:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 29760)
Knallgold....
Technicolor Rumor (dream come true?)
...FWIW------The Peruvian Official also said he was told that once Gold starts to go, that the upswing would continue for SIX YEARS! Well, I say if you're going to dream, go for technicolor.....Lets hope this guy really knows what we don't.....I will post the next conversation when it occurs......Far-Fetched or "NOT"......YGM.

Knallgold (05/02/00; 11:34:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 29759)
@YGM
Thanks for for updating the "June rumour"!
Any further news you post will be greatly appreciated!

On the Swiss sale,they might lead us to something:

"..The SNB will publish the results of its gold sales on its
thrice-monthly bank-return reports, the bank's chief spokesman,Werner Abegg, said. May's three releases are scheduled for tomorrow, the 11th and the 22nd. .."

Will we see prices above spot (as FOA suggested)?????

A side note: Switzerland has a vote on the "Bilaterale Vertr�ge" with the EU on May 21. This will clear our relation to the European Union as we are neither member nor joined the EWR (european economic area) in 1992.A yes is expected.What has it to do with Gold?I don't know,but it is before June...

ss of nep (05/02/00; 11:05:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29758)
Response to ?
ss of nep (05/02/00; 09:12:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29753)

> What is it you are referring to with the statement
> "mark to market rules imposed by BIS regulations." ?

BIS = Bank for International Settlements
( governs the rules for international lending between banks )

>
> What is it that is being "marked to market" ?
Some securities such as bonds and options have values that fluctuate with
changes in interest rates and stock prices. Marking to Market means using
a mathematical model to determine the value of these securities. This
computation has to be done on a daily basis.

VAR is the size of the loss that occurs no more that 95% of the time.
Banks have to allocate capital to cover losses based on the VAR estimate.
See the web site for J.P. Morgan and look for a downloadable report called
Riskmetrics. This report describes the mathematics involved in determining
VAR.

lamprey_65 (05/02/00; 10:52:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 29757)
In addition
Could it be that the Swiss were leasing gold to cap its move, thus keeping their currency from getting too strong?...and now part of the reason to sell is to cover these leased positions? (Not sure how that would work) Maybe they've given up on the capping idea and decided to de-link? Who knows.

lamprey_65 (05/02/00; 10:35:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 29756)
Interesting Post on Kitco
Allen over at Kitco thinks the Swiss are de-linking their currency from gold because they expect the metal to ramp much higher...this would boost the currency to such an extent that exports would dwindle and the economy would suffer. Interesting theory -- I never did understand why the Swiss, of all people, would want to de-link...any thoughts on this?

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 09:54:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 29755)
CM Anniversary
This month is my first anniversay as a "clear thinking" gold bug. Having absorbed an initial two weeks of forum content etc., I could not sleep soundly until I bought some gold from MK. I had many doubts continuing for 6-9 months thereafter. Today, no doubts remain.

Many thanks to MK, FOA, Aristotle, ORO, The Stranger, SteveH, Farfel, Solomon Weaver, Peter Asher, and the many others here too numerable to mention who have helped along the trail.

For those new to the subject and perhaps doubting the veracity of the solid convictions expressed in the content here I offer the following bit of wisdom from Francis Bacon:

"The sinews of wisdom are slowness of belief and distrust....The entry of doubts are as so many suckers or sponges to draw use of knowledge. If a man will begin in certainties he will end in doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties."

USAGOLD (05/02/00; 09:24:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 29754)
Today's Report: Why Today's Swiss Announement Might Be a Positive for the Gold Market
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
5/2/00 Indications
�Current
�Change
Gold June Comex
276.90
+2.10
Silver July Comex
5.08
nc
30 Yr TBond June CBOT
96~05
-0~10
Dollar Index June NYBOT
109.38
+0.29

Market Report (5/2/00): Gold reacted to this morning's details of the Swiss gold sales
announcement with a solid gain. The Swiss National Bank will sell 120 tons of gold by the end of
September through the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), the European based central bank
for central bankers.

The Swiss have repeatedly stated that the sales would be conducted in a manner that would not
undermine the price, and many in the gold trading arena believe that the BIS will spoon-feed the
gold into the market, or even simply bridge the metal across to other central banks who are in the
acquisition mode. It appears that the Swiss have remained true to their word and the market reacted
favorably.

Of the 2000 tons in gold sales agreed upon by the world's central bankers in the Washington
Agreement, the Swiss will sell 1300 tons via the methods described today, the Dutch** will sell
100 tons this year and another 200 tons over the remaining four years of the accord, and the
United Kingdom will sell 365 tons. That leaves a meager 35 tons unaccounted for and rumor has it
that Belgium has already taken up that slot though no announcement had been made.

In other words, the gold market can revel, or mourn, (depending on one's position or trading
book) the passing of an era. There will be precious little in the way of official-sector surprises over
the next four years -- a bullish backdrop that it is sure to alter thinking in certain sectors. The gold
bears will now point to the leasing of gold as the main depressant to the price, but one has to
balance that thinking with the realization that if the central banks are going to all this trouble to
buttress one of their chief assets through the regulation of sales, they are unlikely to undermine
that policy through lease/hedging activity.

The Swiss announcement in future years may be looked back upon as a culminating event. It very
much reminds me of the situation in the early-mid 1970s when both the United States and IMF
conducted gold sales in what became an aborted attempt to keep gold in the $100 to $150 range.
Once all the potential sales energy became known, the price trended up even as the sales were
conducted with willing buyers standing in line to get the metal. Here again, all the major sellers are
known and committed to a publicly known program. All the news is not out and on balance, it
looks favorable fundamentally for the yellow metal given the consistently strong demand for the
metal worldwide.

In response, short-sellers in both Asia and Europe began covering positions overnight pushing the
yellow to higher ground. New York opened on sound footing and in the coming days we will see
whether or not the Swiss sales announcement signals that we've already put in a major bottom in
the gold market.

**according to an article in The Alchemist (April 2000 issue) by Jos R. Heuvelman of the Dutch
Central Bank.

That's it for today, my friends. See you here tomorrow.

The May News & Views is now on its way and should be hitting your mail boxes over the next
few days. We think you are going to like this issue written during the weekend after the April 14
Wall Street Meltdown.

If you are looking for a pro-gold view of the various financial markets as well as a summary of the
events affecting the yellow metal, our monthly newsletter might be of interest. News & Views
-- Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious Metals has
been characterized as witty, urbane, intelligent and down-to-earth. Not to mention it's Free of
Charge If you want to keep up with gold, this is the way a large segment of the gold owning
public does it, and has done it for over a decade.

Just click on link above and make the appropriate entries.

ss of nep (05/02/00; 09:12:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 29753)
Wonder what he meant by ...

mark to market rules imposed by BIS regulations.

- - - - -

I guess I'll find out if he responds to that Question within the next day or so.

ss of nep (05/02/00; 09:03:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 29752)
correspondence -
VAR = Value At Risk
Last week I sent the following to a guy I know who teaches at McMaster ( Hamilton, Ont. )
- - - -

This site may be of interest to you

http://pw1.netcom.com/~ntaleb/

Exerpt:

Recent Technical Work ~
~Dynamic Hedging and Volatility Expectation. <http://pw1.netcom.com/ntaleb/volexpect.htm> Its previous title was On the Biases in Rational Expectations Tests of Volatility (Chapter 5 of Option Replication and Market Structure)
~The Faux Problem of Dynamic Hedging <http://www.netcom.com/ntaleb/faux.html>
Twenty Five Years: The Ought Became the Is . 25th year of the Black -Scholes-Merton option pricing formula.
Regime Switching Processes, Finance, and the Problem of Induction (forthcoming).

- - - -

I got the following response this morning

- - - -

Thanks for the VAR links. It's a hot topic these days due to mark to
market rules imposed by BIS regulations.

It's nice to hear from you. I hope everything is going well.

I just returned from the Derivatives Securities Conference in Boston.
Check out "management.bu.edu/exec/dsc/index.html". The URL has links to
past speakers at the Math Finance Day, which follows the conference.

Robert Merton was there this year and last year. He along with Myron
Scholes were featured in a NOVA program on the topic called the "Trillion
Dollar Bet". The program described the computer trading the was used by
LTCM to implement the financial mathematics algoithms. Unfortunately, they
got a little ambitious and lost over 3 billion dollars.

- - - -

WilloTheWarthog (05/02/00; 08:39:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 29751)
Swiss Gold Sales (Beline-Online)
http://www.berlinonline.de/wirtschaft/.html/dpa_w3_afp72_4_0205_0502133900.html
02,05,00, 13:39
Switzerland Sells half of their gold reserves

Franc's Gold Backing of Franc Finally Removed

Berne, 2 May (AFP) - after the final removal of the gold backing Switzerland half of their gold reserves will sell. In the coming five years 1290 tons of the precious metal nationally held on the international markets would be sold, indicated Swiss central bank on Tuesday in Berne. Until at the end of of Septembers 120 tons should come on the market. With the sales the bank for international clearing payment (BIZ) was entrusted. The announcement of Swiss central bank left the gold price on the international markets first almost unchanged. The central bank stressed, the gold sales is co-ordinated with the central banks 15 further countries, in order to avoid strong exchange rate fluctuations.

WilloTheWarthog (05/02/00; 08:32:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 29750)
Euro (from Le Monde)
http://finance.lemonde.fr/detail-actualite.phtml?id=42421
The most catastrophic scenario would be that same Europeans them do not rely any more on their currency in which case, one sees badly how Euro could be essential like an international currency and especially a currency of reserve. This is why the authorities will not be able indefinitely to let spin Euro even if the effectiveness of the interventions of the central banks on the foreign exchange market still remains to be proven (the Bank of Japan mobilized several tens of billion dollars to stop the rise of the Yen without much success). Paradoxically, the fundamental ones continue to improve on the Old Continent as underlines it the rise of 1,2% of the industrial production in February within the Union (+5,5% over one year) and the fall sensitive of unemployment in France to March (- 2% for a rate brought back to 10%). But Europe is still far from competing with the growth rates displayed by the United States since the American GDP is arisen in rise of 5,4% in the first quarter after a record of +7,3% in the fourth quarter 1999. The differential of growth, although in fall, thus pleads always in favour of the Dollar.

WilloTheWarthog (05/02/00; 08:24:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29749)
Euro (opinion from other side of the pond)
http://www.berlinonline.de/wirtschaft/.html/dpa_w3_adn419_4_0205_0502153700.html
02/05/00 15:37
HypoVereinsbank justifies Euro-expiry with Speculation

Munich/Mainz (ADX). A reason to the concern is not for the HypoVereinsbank the sinking euro-rate. That applies however only to the economic basic data, because the political damage by the reputation loss of the European currency is enormous, indicated the HypoVereinsbank on Tuesday in Munich. In an analysis the experts follow the reasons for the crash of the euro since its introduction. About one thing the analyst is sure: The euro is totally undervalued.

Henri (05/02/00; 08:18:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 29748)
and what's more valuable
Gold! why use US$ to buy Euro assets when the rest of the world will do that. What they want and need is more gold. Buy in the US with US$ and get rid of them once and for all. Buying back stuff they own already doesn't really help them now does it? We should follow in the footseps of giants. Buy gold!

Henri (05/02/00; 08:09:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 29747)
Euro play...US$ but a tool
It occurs to me that if the ECB knows the euro will eventually be the new reserve currency there is the problem of all those d*mn US$ denominated notes floating all over the place. If I had them and wanted to exchange them for Euro denominated assets would I intervene at this point and support the euro? No I would use the temporary and artificially high valuation of the US$ to buy value priced Euro denominated assets. Duh! Buy low, sell high. Beautiful in its simplicity, no?

Henri (05/02/00; 08:04:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 29746)
10 tola bar
Clunk!

Henri (05/02/00; 07:55:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 29745)
Town Crier
Your tapestry is one of exceptional beauty end intricate design. Keep weaving the end result is "priceless" like gold itself

Topaz (05/02/00; 07:20:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 29744)
"Mad Dog runs AMOK"
http://www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html

Now there's a sight for sore eye's!

Cavan Man (05/02/00; 07:00:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 29743)
Black Blade 29737
SNB vis a vis BIS! Well, thats "Another" confirmation.

Thank you FOA. Thank you Reg Howe.

Topaz (05/02/00; 06:49:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 29742)
BB-SteveH
OK- Let's see!
Run US$ up last week --- (Euro down, Gold down)
Sell Au US$272ish, convert to Euros (300+)
Swiss NB happy!

Tank US$ between now and May23 (Euro up, Au up)
BoE auction comes in high US280's (Euros 300+)
POM's happy!

"THE BEAT GOES ON"

But it can't go on forever- can it?

Ulysses (05/02/00; 06:42:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 29741)
ThaiGold-Comex
http://www.usagold.com
I think you're right. The Rothschilds, et al, are slamming it so that they can pick up the physical more cheaply.

TownCrier (05/02/00; 06:31:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 29740)
Hear ye! Hear ye! The Week in Gold has been updated!
http://www.usagold.com/wgc.html
It is that time of the week, and we are once again pleased to be able to share the World Gold Council's weekly gold market commentary with our family of visitors. Of note in this week's report is the following review of GFMS data:

"The release of the annual gold survey from industry analysts Gold Fields Mineral Services on Wednesday kept gold under pressure. GFMS suggested that prices above $300 were unsustainable in the continued absence of genuine investor demand. The lack of such demand was the main reason why price surges above $300 an ounce in September 1999 and February this year were not sustained, the consultants said. These comments triggered some speculative selling on the Comex, driving prices down to the lowest levels seen this year. However, GFMS went on to say that a price below $250 an ounce would be equally unsustainable unless central banks and private holders of gold were prepared to sell and lend more metal at lower prices, something that did not happen last year. GFMS added that continued Asian economic recovery, coupled with a world GDP growth of around 4.2%, should encourage robust physical gold demand this year."

Two (counter)points: GFMS seems content to discount the notion that an international or even local currency "dynanmic" could easily make physical gold attractive in any given nation at any given (higher) price. Further, the pricing mechanism should be more properly conveyed by GFMS (rather than confusing it with physical demand), as I offer in the following amendment within the parentheses:
"GFMS suggested that prices above $300 were unsustainable in the continued absence of genuine investor demand [for gold futures contracts.] The lack of such demand [for the paper gold derivatives used by the marketplace for price discovery] was the main reason why price surges above $300 an ounce in September 1999 and February this year were not sustained, the consultants said."

They do, however, hit near the mark with the comment that low prices are "unsustainable unless central banks and private holders of gold were prepared to sell and lend more metal at lower prices, something that did not happen last year." As it is, the low price can only be maintained as long as most gold market players remain content to hold derivatives instead of the real thing, and further, that enough gold flows from "weak hands" to satisfy the international demands upon the physical market. Please refer to our earlier post today on central banks and the Washington Agreement to form your own conclusion as to the official sector's changing policy toward their historical tolerance or even support of past value-suppressing gold market operations.

Black Blade (05/02/00; 06:27:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 29739)
SteveH
Definitely a transfer. likely just some book keeping to clear up Gold loans (sales?). Definitely concur. This gold will never see the light of day, but the question is how the markets will react as the pundits put their usual spin on it.

SteveH (5/2/2000; 5:56:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 29738)
SNB
As suspected and hypothesized, the BIS is handling the SNB sale of gold. It was further thought that if the BIS did this, this gold will NEVER see the market. It is inter-bank transfer, not selling to the public. Concur?

Black Blade (5/2/2000; 5:45:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 29737)
Morning Wakeup Call
Source: Bridge News
SNB begins gold sales, to sell up to 120 tonnes by end-Sep

Frankfurt--May 2--The Swiss National Bank began its gold sales Monday and intends to put a maximum of 120 tonnes of gold on the market by the end of September, the SNB said Tuesday. This is the first tranche of a program of sales totaling 1,300 tonnes of gold, the SNB said, adding that it has commissioned the Bank for International Settlements to sell the first tranche. (Story .11236)

Black Blade: Well now, it's begun. We'll see how the markets react, so far - so good.

Berkshire vice chairman hints Berkshire still holds silver

Omaha, Neb.--Apr 29--Berkshire Hathaway vice chairman Charlie Munger Saturday raised the long-dormant speculation that the investment vehicle still maintains holdings in silver. In answer to a shareholder question, Munger said he could not think of any reasons to own gold currently. Munger also stated his support for Microsoft's position following the Justice Department's decision Friday to split the computer software company in two. (Story .12145)

Black Blade: Gold no, silver yes, and against splitting MSFT into "Baby Bills". Does Warren concur? Hmmmm��

India's govt said to be considering a precious metals exchange

Hong Kong--May 2--The Indian government, one of the world's major gold and silver buyers, is considering setting up a precious metals exchange, Riaz Patel, a director of India's transportation and precious metals trading group Natar Holdings told Bridge News late Friday. He added the government told Natar Holdings, which has been lobbying for the setting up of the exchange, that it would start preparation work for the new exchange after the company demonstrates that it has recruited sufficient members to take part in trading. (Story .11439)

Black Blade: This could be good. Do they still require a hefty tax on Au purchases? Anyway possibly greater access to the Indian public. Possible drought conditions could affect harvest and result in lower Au purchases? We'll see.

SteveH (5/2/2000; 5:27:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 29736)
Hypocrisy
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20000430_xnjdo_judges_wit.shtml
In the book Unintended Consequeces by John Ross, the author spoke of government officials all being allowed to carry concealed weapons, pointing out that ordinary citizens were unarmed while the government was armed. Here is a link that shows Mr. Ross wasn't far from the truth. If judges can carry nationally, so should law-abiding citizens.

snippet:

"On its face, it's just another bill designed to place federal officials above the 'little people,'" Schultz told WorldNetDaily. "How can a federal judge carrying a concealed weapon make a ruling in a gun case against some guy who didn't have a permit but was trying to protect himself -- just like the judge -- under the guise of the Second Amendment?"

If the bill passes as is, Schultz said

ss of nep (5/2/2000; 4:58:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 29735)
There is nothing new uder the sun
http://etherzone.com/farr092099.html

A quote from the above link

"The next third waver to build on Plato's plan was modern Communism's hired hack and egotist founder, Karl Marx - who stole all of Plato's Republic into his supposed "original" plan for a utopia, added another borrowed twist from Hegel's Godless dialectic view of history, mixed Aristotle's quantum leap view of evolution, and then through in Plato's idea that the strong rule and create laws and morals which perpetuate their wealth, and dared to call it all a new and unique theory. It wasn't. It was strictly cut and paste.
"

ss of nep (5/2/2000; 4:55:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 29734)
HI - HAT (5/2/2000; 4:04:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 29731)

I currently think the Synthesis ( Dialectic result / compromise ) of the Dialectic process of the Council of Nicea, was the establishment of the Church of Rome.

The Church of Rome being a compromise among several different beliefs held throughout the degenerating Roman Empire at the time, Constantine wanted a cohesive empire and sought it via establishment of the catholic( = universal ) belief system.

Those that did not adopt the new belief system were systematically eliminated.

Shortly thereafter the records contained in the library at Alexandria were destroyed and the so called Dark Ages began.

Leigh (5/2/2000; 4:18:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 29733)
totalamateur
No offense to you personally, but that pig story's getting a little stale. Isn't this the THIRD time you've posted it??

totalamateur (5/2/2000; 4:14:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 29732)
The Green Paper Pig
"THE GREEN PAPER PIG"--A Dream of the Future of the Dollar!--

(Early this morning David awoke and related to me the following dream:) IT WAS SUMMER IN THE MIDEAST, and we were fleeing through this canyon or wadi where a stream flowed (I know now it was the Jordan River), towards some kind of sea or lake like the Dead Sea (which I know now it was) where we were to get on some boats to escape across to the other side. But then as a last resort, someone unleashed on us this big imaginary monster--a gigantic Green Pig--and he was huge, like a mechanical elephant or one of these mammoth monster-like parade balloons, and if you believed he existed he could destroy you! He was charging down the Jordan Valley, trampling on some people and devouring others, when I shouted at them: "He doesn't really exist! It's just in your mind! You must rebuke him and he'll go away!" So some of us turned as we were boarding the boats to leave, and just as he caught up with us I yelled again, "He doesn't exist! It's a matter of whether you believe it or not! It's only your faith in him that he exists that makes him real! Rebuke him in Jesus' name and he'll flee!"--And the minute we turned and faced him and challenged him and rebuked him in Jesus' name, he vanished just like that! (David snaps his fingers.) He was like the ultimate weapon, their last resort, to release this monstrous Green Pig!

2. AFTERWARD I WAS LYING HERE THINKING: "What is this funny dream! What does this strange dream mean, Lord?" I asked the Lord: "What is a green pig? That's ridiculous!" Then I thought to myself, "What is like a pig? Is it a nation? But what nation is like a pig? America? But why is he green? Does that mean he's young and new?" And then the answer came just as clear as anything: He's the American dollar!--The ultimate weapon in the Mideast is the American dollar, and if you believe in it, it will destroy you! But if you know it doesn't really exist, it vanishes! So I had told them, "It doesn't even exist! It's in your mind! It's your fear, your imagination! Resist it! Challenge it in Jesus' name!"--And, poof! It just evaporated! And that's the last I remember!

3. SO THE ULTIMATE WEAPON IS THE "GREENBACK" Pig!--The American dollar, or American "greenback," as they call it! Somehow they're using it against the rest of the world. It came charging down the Jordan Valley just like they'd turned him loose _________ (censored), and he came charging furiously at us, and was really trampling and devouring the stragglers, the people who were a little late in making up their minds. But when it got to where we were embarking in these boats, we just turned around and I screamed: "He doesn't even exist! Rebuke it in Jesus' name!"--And we all just turned around and resisted it in Jesus' name, and it vanished just like that!--The ultimate weapon! How about that?

4. WE MUST TELL THE WORLD THAT THEY MUST NOT FEAR THE AMERICAN DOLLAR! The Green pig is only a monster of the imagination! It only exists if you believe in it. If you resist it in the name of God, it evaporates and is no more! So he's very wise to put his money in gold, because the dollar is going to evaporate when the people lose faith in it, and it will be gone! The green pig gobbles everybody up that believes in it, and tramples everybody in the mud that thinks it exists! But for those who know it's just a monster of imagination, it vanishes!--It's nothing! The Green Pig is the American dollar!

5. I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE ALL THIS WAS, and it came to me that the place where I saw the decision made to release the Green Pig was _____ (censored), and the small canyon with the river in the bottom was the Jordan! It had small low bluffs on both sides--it was the Jordan Valley, the Jordan canyon, and we were fleeing down from _____ (censored) to the Dead Sea where we were embarking on boats.--And it came to me we must have been going to Petra, fleeing to Petra, the world-famed Rock City in Jordan! But the decision to unleash the Green Pig, the ultimate weapon, was made at _____ (censored)!

6. SOMEONE IS MANIPULATING THE DOLLAR and using it as a weapon--the Green Pig--to try to destroy their enemies. Someone is behind the monetary crisis and they are using it to their own advantage to somehow try to destroy their enemies.--And if you believe in it, it will destroy you, but if you refuse to believe that it even exists, it completely evaporates and vanishes! It has no power over you at all. It is a monster of imagination! It only terrifies those who believe that it exists. It is the moneymakers' monster, and the Green Pig is just a tool in their hands.

7. AMERICA ITSELF IS LIKE A GREEN PIG, and the Green Pig is like America--huge and powerful and young and green and greedy, gluttonous, wasteful, selfish! But it only exists if you believe it exists, like its dollar, the "greenback," or the American dollar. It's like this Green Pig is the god of America, it is America's idol that they worship. It is not even as good as the golden calf, because it doesn't even exist! It is all in the imagination. But they worship it and they created it, and the moneymakers helped them to create it. But it is they that tell it which way to go. It is they who unleash it against their enemies, and it is they who control it, and they either harness it and support it, or they unleash it and send it charging against their enemies to devour them!

8. BUT IF YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN IT, and you take no stock in it, you don't believe in it, you don't worship it, and you rebuke it in the name of God, it just vanishes and evaporates! It has no power at all over you unless you're one of its worshippers. The moneymakers are its high priests and its priesthood, and it was created in their temples and they control it and they manipulate it as they will to their own advantage against their enemies.

9. SO YOU AND ALL THE WORLD MUST BEWARE OF THE DOLLAR! It is a moneymaker's creation--a Green Pig! It'll devour you and trample you to death in the mud and the mire if you believe in it and put your faith in it, if you trust in it! Because, whichever way it moves, it moves at their behest, at their direction, because they created it and they control it. But it only exists for those that believe in it. If you take no stock in it and have no faith in it and don't believe in it and you reject it, and if you refuse to accept it and you resist it because you know it doesn't exist, except according to men's faith in it and their imagination, if you challenge it in the name of God, it just goes pooof!--Like puff, the Magic Dragon! It totally evaporates! It has no power over you whatsoever if you don't believe in it. But those who believe in it will be destroyed by it!--It was their creation, their monster, and it is the figment of their imagination, but they use it to their own advantage. But if you'll reject it and refuse to believe in it, and you rebuke it in God's name, it vanishes and cannot even touch you!

10. THEY MUST NOT PUT THEIR FAITH IN THE DOLLAR. THEY MUST REBUKE THE GREEN PIG and he will vanish for he doesn't really exist except in the minds of men who accept him. You get all the words of David? You receive all the words of your Father? You must tell them to the people! "Beware of the Green Pig which the moneymakers have unleashed upon the world!" The money crisis, the dollar crisis is their creation and the decision to use it as the ultimate weapon was made at _____ (censored)! (He looks at grey sweater): It looks green, and I thought it was green! Then all of a sudden I realised it wasn't green!--It was all in my imagination! Like those that clothe themselves in dollars they think are green, they think they are alive and young and growing like the green things of the earth, but they shall find that this greenness only exists in their imagination, and when exposed to the light of day, the truth of God, it turns to grey ashes, burnt out fires, dead grey ashes!

11. THE AMERICAN DOLLARS ARE NO LONGER GREEN AND GROWING, BUT THEY HAVE TURNED TO GREY DEAD ASHES and they only look green if you're deceived thereby, only if you think that grey is green when green has really turned to grey! The Green Pig will turn to ashes, dead grey cold ashes, when the fire of faith is gone, and it will be burnt out and destroyed when the fire of the faith of men in it is gone! When the flame of faith in it has burnt out, all the dollars will be turned to ashes and burnt up, turned to worthless ashes! Oh my God, why don't they see that! Why does God's prophet have to tell them a simple little childish story? I have to warn the world, honey, of the words God gives, His wondrous words He gives to save them from this monstrous Green Pig--the American dollar they have unleashed on the world as their ultimate weapon to try to destroy their enemies!

12. AMERICA'S GREEN PAPER PIG DOESN'T EVEN EXIST--IT'S ONLY IN YOUR MIND--and only if you believe in it! It's a figment of your imagination! If it's your image, if it's the image of your nation--your image-nation, your imagination, the image of your nation, and you worship it and you believe in it and you hold on to it, it will destroy you! But if you rebuke it and defy it in the name of God, it has no power over you! It totally vanishes--just evaporates! As they unleashed it at ________ (censored) and it came charging down the Jordan Valley toward us while we were escaping in these boats at the Dead Sea, it was destroying everything in its path till we turned and rebuked it and resisted it and I shouted to them, "It doesn't exist! Rebuke it! Resist it and it will flee from you!"--And we did, and Puff, the Magic Dragon vanished!--Puff, the Magic Dragon crashed!

13. THE WEST IS THE STRONGHOLD OF THE MAGIC DRAGON--THE DREAM PIG! I'm not afraid of the Magic Dragon! I'm not afraid of the Green Pig! But we were leaving and embarking on boats across the Sea. If their faith in the Pig is very strong, then the Pig is very strong. It really exists for those who believe it exists. For those who worship it, it not only exists but it is their god, and it rules over them and controls them and devours them and destroys them, because they worship other gods and they worship the Green Pig--the ultimate abomination, the abomination of desolation which brings desolation and abomination to all who believe in it! The Green Pig is an abomination of desolation sacrificed on the sacred altar by its moneymakers!

14. BUT IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO GOD--the Green Pig, the American dollar! It is a pollution!--It is pollution! It pollutes the whole world worse than any other pollution, because it pollutes the hearts and minds of men and captures their bodies and destroys their souls and devours them and gobbles them up--the Green Pig! It is a marvel and powerful and wondrous and mighty to those who believe in it!--But it is nothing, it is not even weak to those who know it doesn't even exist!--It's nothing!--It evaporates into thin air! If you resist it and rebuke it, it will flee from you and vanish!

15. THE GREEN PIG--THE AMERICAN DOLLAR THAT DEVOURS AND DESTROYS SO MANY! It is controlled by the moneymakers! They released it against their enemies and the world, but we will help the world to resist it, to rebuke it and defy it and know that it doesn't exist except in the minds and imaginations of money men! If you know it doesn't exist, that the Green Pig, the American dollar, is a lie, a figment of the imagination and a creation of the money men, if you rebuke it, resist it and defy it and tell it it is a liar, it'll vanish and evaporate and have absolutely no power over you whatsoever! It just goes Puff, the Magic Dragon! Puff, the Magic Dragon is a pipe dream dreamed up by the money men!

16. WHAT DOES THE WORD "DOLLAR" MEAN? There was no such thing as the American dollar until it was dreamed up by Washington! What does it mean? There's something strange about that word dollar! The dollar has the whole world in the doldrums! The world, who's been beating the drums to the dollar, is now in the doldrums because of its false worship of its fallen idol, which is what they deserve! For they created to themselves idols of gold and idols of silver, and now their final idol is an idol of paper--a paper tiger!--Sickening, greedy, gluttonous, Green Pig, the dollar! You see?--Now you see it, and now you don't!--Depends on whether you believe it or not. The Green Pig--the moneymakers' joke!--The American dollar! What a joke on the world by the money jerks! They are going to jerk their joke out from under them--the German joke that comes from Joachim's dale, or thalle, a gorge with a river like the Jordan Valley! The obsolete German coin or thaller is going to become the obsolete American dollar!--Joachim's dollars, joke'em!

17. THE GREEN PIG--THE CREATION OF THE MONEY MEN! The worshippers of the dollar have been deceived by their own priests! They are now deceived and destroyed by their own creation! The deceivers are themselves deceived by their own deception in which they believed--the Green Pig--the American dollar! It shall return upon their own heads, and it shall turn upon them and rend them and trample them underfoot because they have cast their pearls unto the swine--and the truth unto dogs!--How they travestied to create their Green Pig, not even a golden calf! The laws of God have they cast down and broken! They have not even created a golden calf this time, but only a Green Paper Pig!

18. THE AMERICAN DOLLAR--A GREEN PAPER PIG WHICH WILL DEVOUR AND DESTROY YOU IF YOU LET IT and believe in it and accept it, but which will vanish and evaporate into the nothing that it is if you refuse it and rebuke it and don't believe in it, don't take it, don't accept the Green Pig, refuse the Green Pig, challenge it, defy it, rebuke it! He'll not only flee from you but he'll completely vanish, because he is not! He's a figment of men's imaginations: The Green Paper Pig! Hurry, honey, we have to get these words to the waiting world! We have to hurry! Honey, you won't forget about warning the world about the Green Pig, OK?

19. IN THOSE DREAMS NOTHING IS WITHOUT SIGNIFICANCE. I was praying about why the Green Pig was running down the Jordan Valley and caught up with us at the Dead Sea. It lost its power when it arrived at the Dead Sea and we confronted it. It was like the Dead Sea, lowest spot on Earth, symbolises the end.--The Green Pig could go no farther or lower, and there it vanished from the earth at our rebuke! The Jordan River is a living river and it gives life and flows and waters and feeds until it gets to the Dead Sea, and there those waters, like Lot's wife, turn to salt and become dead and can no longer go anywhere or do anything. They've stagnated. They've reached the end and they no longer seem good for anything--like the dollar, the Green Paper Pig! And the pig was following the course of the Jordan, which also symbolises crisis and death till he reached his end at the Dead Sea, and that's where we destroyed it by defying it and denouncing it and it couldn't stand exposure! The minute all the people looked at it and heard that it was only in their imagination, it just vanished! The minute they heard it was just an imaginary pig, it vanished!

20. WHEN A CURRENCY COMES TO ITS END AND BECOMES WORTHLESS, AS IN GERMANY AFTER WORLD WAR I, only things of real value, material things of actual usefulness and necessities, become negotiable, and a system of bartering or trading of goods instead of money arises. When the currency dies, men return to the age-old system of trading physical and material necessities. So that people trade things they have and produce for things that they need, such as the farmers would trade the foodstuff they produced for the tools and manufactured items they needed, and the industrial communities or tradesmen who make things would trade them for the farmers' food and the goods that they need.

21. SO THAT IN GERMANY, JUST BEFORE HITLER, THE MARK HAD BECOME SO WORTHLESS that the government was printing billion-Mark notes, which were still not worth much, and each city and town and area began printing its own currency, or spurious currency, in which each government tried to inspire the faith of the people as a medium of exchange, because it was a little difficult without it. If you wanted to go to the theatre you had to take so many eggs or a hen for admission! It was not only difficult for the customers, but imagine the problems of the management in trying to find a place to store all these things! One story is told of the two women who went shopping with a whole laundry basket full of German Marks, to show you how worthless the Marks were!--And as if that wasn't bad enough, when they weren't looking, somebody dumped all the Marks out of the basket, left the Marks on the sidewalk, and ran off with the basket!

22. SO WHEN THE DOLLAR, WHICH HAS IN EFFECT BEEN THE WORLD'S INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY, COMES TO ITS END, WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE? Gold has kept its value very well, and in fact, in relation to the dollar, it is now worth about four times as much as it was back in the thirties! In other words, the dollar is worth only about one-fourth of what it was 40 years ago! It's been dropping nearly 20 percent in value every ten years or about 2 percent a year!

23. BUT WHAT IS GOLD GOOD FOR NOW in actual material necessities and how valuable is it today? For many ages gold has been much sought after as a useful, but particularly as a very decorative, metal, so it became an extremely precious metal sought by the rich for their tableware and their various metallic decorative materials, etc. But today it is not sought after so much for those old-fashioned luxuries, and is not even as much in demand for things like gold watches and jewelry. But it has become increasingly in demand as a vital part of the electronic systems of many of these new scientific gadgets!

24. THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE PRICE OF GOLD HAS GONE UP, because it is still very much in demand and extremely necessary for the circuitry of electronic devices. One reason that TV sets cost so much for example, or even your little transistorized radios, is because gold is used extensively in these, as it is one of the world's best conductors of electricity! Amazing isn't it, that God made gold so useful and necessary, from ancient times to the present, as well as beautiful and attractive! God has always put considerable value on gold in the Scriptures, some on silver, but mostly on gold. But He does say that there will even come a day when gold and silver will be less valuable and as common as the rocks in the streets, which may be the Millennium or thereafter because of the loss of the need of all these gadgets and scientific contraptions, as well as the loss of the need of a monetary standard, or metals for mere decoration. Nevertheless, gold has kept its value over all these centuries and really better than anything else outside of actual real estate.

25. ONE REASON FOR THE REAL ESTATE BOOM IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN TO LOSE FAITH IN THEIR MONEY, currency and banking accounts, they begin exchanging their money for things of actual useful value. They can't help but see from history that the value of money is constantly going down, because these are no longer the secrets of the rich and high finance, but they are common knowledge of the general public and the man on the street. He knows that the value of his money is deteriorating every day through what is called inflation. As the prices go up, his wages never rise as fast as the prices since the owners, manipulators and managers of money are the ones who control both wages and prices. Therefore the rich always see to it that their prices rise faster than the wages of their wage slaves!

26. SO THE BIG AND POWERFUL LABOUR UNIONS NOW INSIST THAT TO EVERY NEW CONTRACT there be attached the proviso that their wages will automatically be raised according to the cost of living, which is known by the cost of living index.--Periodically the wages of the labourers of certain industries who have made these very wise contracts, will be raised by exactly the same percentage as the rise in the cost of living: Or in other words, according to the deflation of their money caused by the inflation in prices. So some labour has gotten pretty smart on this issue!

27. NEVERTHELESS, LABOUR NEVER SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THE COST OF LIVING no matter how hard they try. Because, if you're a manufacturing owner or manager or a money manipulator, it is much easier for you to manipulate your prices and money, most of which is simply done on paper, than it is for the poor lowly labourer to try to get a raise in his wages from the industrial managers and money manipulators who are in control of wealth and the sources of wealth and power and the sources of power and government and are usually much richer, more powerful, better educated and smarter than the poor average working man.

28. BUT LATELY, EVEN THE MONEY MANIPULATORS HAVE BEEN LETTING THINGS GET A LITTLE OUT OF HAND and out of their control, and they haven't seemed to quite understand why their money matters are getting in such a bad way because of the sudden fall of their god the dollar upon which they base their values and currencies and their rates of exchange even from one currency to another in foreign countries throughout the world. When you go to a bank to exchange one foreign currency for another, you will usually find that on the little exchange slip or receipt they give you as a record of the transaction, first is listed the amount and the kind of currency which you gave them, then its value in dollars, believe it or not, and then finally its value in the local currency for which you are exchanging it!

29. SO THE GOD DOLLAR--THE GREEN PIG--HAS BEEN THE WORLD-WIDE STANDARD OF VALUE and of monetary exchange since most of the world went off the gold standard, and, subsequently, the silver standard! In other words, the U.S. got so strong and so smart and rich and powerful that even after it was no longer willing to give you either gold or silver in exchange for your paper dollars, the value and power of that paper dollar held its value and power of exchange in the minds of the people by their faith in the American government and its people and its power! So that the dollar held its own for a long time after its actual value in gold or silver was gone!

30. IT HAS TAKEN THE WORLD 40 YEARS AND A LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN AMERICA and its government to finally wake the world to the fact that the dollar is actually worth very little, if anything, and it is only worth to them as much as their faith says it is worth! And since they've lost faith in the American government, they are no longer willing to believe what it is worth, what America says it is worth. The dollar has been coasting along on its own momentum for several decades due to the power and wealth of America and the world's faith in the American government and its word that the dollar was worth something. But now that the world is beginning to awaken to the fact that it was only by faith that the dollar was worth anything, they've lost that faith in America and its word, and the dollar has lost its value.

31. TO GIVE YOU A LITERAL ILLUSTRATION OF HOW THIS HAPPENS: A recent plunge in the value of the dollar was caused by the world's loss of faith in the Nixon Administration and its veracity and credibility because of its many lies, deceits, political intrigue and cover-ups. So, as the world lost faith in America's Nixon Administration, it also lost faith in America's money! Because, since faith in money is based on faith in the government that produces that money, and in that government's word that says it is worth so much, then the people no longer believe either in that government nor its word nor its money when they lose faith in it!

32. THEREFORE, THE MONEY LOSES ITS BELIEVED ACTUAL OR SUPPOSED INTRINSIC VALUE and its professed and recognised value as a medium of exchange at its former rate of exchange in almost exact proportion to the people's loss of faith in it! In other words, paper money is only worth what people believe it is worth! They have to have faith in it, believe in it and be willing to accept it as a valuable and negotiable medium of exchange. Otherwise, wheie ǽ b --Šg time they �"�unwind. Just my $.02.<br></font><br><br> <FONT COLOR

HI - HAT (5/2/2000; 4:04:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 29731)
ss of nep # 29663 Dialectic
Does the Council of Nicea result in the dynamic of:

Theses: Capitolism: Paganism

Antitheses: Communism: Christianity

Synthesis: Fascism: Feudalism

TownCrier (5/2/2000; 3:15:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 29730)
While on the subject of central banks and gold...
http://www.centralbanking.co.uk/
I extend a 'Thank you' to Sir oldgold for alerting us to the fine commentary on the Washington Agreement from (Managing Director) Robert Pringle's Central Banking quarterly journal. Of interest, the article provides this review:

"The central bank's policy statement on gold is not only a landmark in the history of the gold market, but a significant and possibly hazardous move by the leading central banks that are either party to the agreement or have associated themselves with it. Some thoughtful observers feared that the central banks had not thought through the possible implications of their collective action: did they realise they had a tiger by the tail?"

[TownCrier note: Central bankers are not as reckless as all that. You can be sure they anticipated every angle where gold is concerned.]

"The agreement itself is quite rigid -- apparently making no allowance for the possibility that they might wish to expand lending to the market in particular circumstances, such as a lending operation for a bullion bank requiring liquidity."
[...]
[TC note: Do you have any remaining doubt that ongoing operations occur in which gold serves as a monetary asset in contracts instead of national currencies on a grand scale?]

"The market is likely to test the authorities persistently and relentlessly in the long run - both on the downside and the upside. The central banks� aim is clear enough. They want to avoid the value of one of their principal assets being determined by the activities of speculators and driven by market rumours, especially when uncertainty about the intentions of the central banks fuelled those rumours and when the central banks provide the liquidity which speculators used to drive down the price. In short, central banks are saying: **"gold will not become the plaything of the markets."**

And to finish this off with a Paul Harvey-esque "...The Rest of the Story" bit of drama, this article offers an interesting insight that nicely follows the comments we offered in our previous post by Miss Haruko Fukuda, specifiacally-----"I will tell you an amusing aside. The British Chancellor of the Exchequer [Gordon Brown] may have thought he was getting rid of it [via the highly publicized UK gold auctions]. But as we speak today gold is being flown back to London in crates: Brinks Mat vans are busy delivering consignment stocks flown back from lying idle in all parts of the world to London, to the Bank of England and to other gold depositaries. Bullion banks need them for their liquidity."------ [Rather makes one think again on our previous reports of massive gold exports over recent months from the U.S., doesn't it?]

Now, try to picture Paul Harvey wrapping up this tale by delivering the following lines from this Central Banking journal article:-------"The new agreement announced in Washington on September 26 is the first collective central bank action designed to affect the gold market since the ending of the London "gold pool" in 1968. [...] It is understood that Eddie George, Governor of the Bank of England, played an active role in hammering out the details of the agreement."

So you see, Central Bankers (Mr. George included) uniquely know as few others can what power is held by gold alone, and they have announced the dawn of a new era for the yellow metal...though the market watchers remain slow to pick up on it's true significance. To say again, "Gold is not to be the "plaything" of the market." And now you know... the rest of the story.

ThaiGold (5/2/2000; 2:02:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 29729)
Soaring Gold Exports & an Odd MayDay Pattern.
Possibly an important New Theory...
....
...
..
5-02-2000
To: All

Yesterday, May 1st, I noticed an odd pattern in both
the Gold and Silver 24-hour charts:
Gold: http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
Silver: http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html

The usual pounding down of both, during COMEX hours
in New York was missing.!. Yet the day was *not* a holiday
in the USA. ie: Goldman Sachs, PPT, etc would be at
their usual desks.

But the day *was* a holiday in the London/European
markets. So those markets and bullion banks etc were
*not* at their usual desks.

Therefore, it would seem to imply that the massive short
selling daily upon COMEX, to slam down Gold and Silver
is originating in Europe. ie: Not the PPT nor Goldman
itself, who (I feel) just acts as their fiduciary agent
and broker. Goldman's short-selling customers are in Europe.!.

This tends to (I think) strengthen the New Theory that
I put forth into this Forum over the weekend, regarding
those extraordinarily large Gold Exports from the USA.

I'm going to clip/paste that post into here, now, because I
feel many of you may have missed seeing it, or grasping it's
possible significance. Let us have some discussion on
that new concept.

[paste-Quote]

ThaiGold (4/29/2000; 22:33:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29603)
Soaring Gold Exports: A New Theory
Attn: MK/USAGOLD (4/29/2000; 20:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29601)
===========================================================
To: MK/USAgold
To: ALL
Your post of USAGOLD (4/29/2000; 20:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29601)
contained the following excerpt, which I'd like to comment upon, to ALL
in the Forum:

[MK-Quote]
The most astonishing development reported here are the ones by TownCrier on gold
exports. Someone's taking delivery of all that gold and I don't think they're
complaining about the price. They're just taking delivery and getting ready to
ride out whatever storms might be headed our way. Who knows -- it might even be
Europeans taking delivery of that metal. It wouldn't surprise me -- for
Switzerland, it could amont to "in one door out the other." The only thing that
changes is the official numbers. Now wouldn't that be interesting?
[MK-UnQuote]

Myself, have a suspician that these soaring Gold Exports are nothing more
than Big-Oil Monies (US$ dollars) being converted into solid Gold, thru
the various (totally legal) mechanisms of the markets, COMEX etc etc etc,
that we and (sometimes) GATA may be misinterpretinmg as "Manipulation".

I mean, they have begun to soar, just as their (higher-priced) oil revenues
have soared of late and of previous times. Doesn't this sound plausible.?.
If we NutShell the "Oil-for-Gold" scenario(s) they boil down to:
(1)Oil Producer has Oil in-ground. Prefers to have Gold in Pocket.
(2)GoldMine Producer has Gold in-ground. Prefers to have US$ for Expenses.
(3)Big-Banks have US$ in Books. Prefers more. more. more.
(4)Oil/Bank/GoldMine go thru incredulous shenanigans to accomplish swap.
(5)Oil gets Gold direct from mine.
(6)GoldMine gets US$ direct from Bank.
(7)Bank gets more more more (interest and fees) from both plus principle.

Now then, if one looks at this simply, or even complexly, as Another or FOA
have, it boils down to alot of Gold *exported*, and alot of Oil *imported*. And
alot of -more-more-more (US$) circulating/expanding/loaning inside the Banks.
To wit: Money growth, inflation (TheStranger--are you absorbing this?) huge
oil imports and equally bloated Gold Exports.

In a very simple-minded (mine) scenario, wouldn't it be easiest for GoldHungry
oil-producers to (in many cases) just do the "exchange" via COMEX futures, and
take delivery, thru (legally) (maybe not-so-BadGuys-Goldman Sachs, et al) as
their prefered (big enuf) broker. With the CashStarved GoldMines being the
Opposite Parties to these massive Futures/forward contracts.

I have a hunch, that much of what we perceive as "manipulation" is simply the
(legal) market forces doing their thing. But there's another aspect that I
also believe is entering the big picture, that indeed IS manipulation:

Consider this: If YOU were an OilShiekah, with vast haordes of already-Gold
at hand, and you wished to buy (exchange US$ income revenue) even more of
your favorite flavor Gold Bars, wouldn't you (wisely):
(a) Use current vast-gold-reserves to "short" the markets, to:
(b) Drive the price of Gold even lower, then:
(c) Buy your next newest hoarde (periodically) at a much lower POG, after having
(d) Also closed out your "shorts" too, at your driven-down bottom target, and:
(e) Use Goldman Sachs (et al) as your legal/fiduciary/agent/broker, to:
(f) Make it look as if the US Govt aka ESF was the "manipulation" culprit.

Are we (irate/disappointed) GoldBugs perhaps seeing something that doesn't
really exist.?. Is GATA going to discover this misconception eventually, or
will several CongressPeople going to explain it to them, as they usher them
to the door. And as they do absoloutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g about GATA's and our
incessant accusations of unfair POG manipulation.?.

Please do not think me anti-GATA. I'm not. I welcome whatever they can do to
expose/thwart/stop the manipulation(s). But I'm a realist, and suspect that
the scenarios that we/they invision may not, probably don't, exist whatsoever.
Or, if they do exist, will be easily stonewalled/denied/covered up by the
entities that are (wink wink) (I did not have S...) up to their ..er...ears in
it for political/economic reasons. Hence, are unstoppable, by anyone.

These are my feeble thoughts on the issue, and I may repost mid week to perhaps
stimulate some in-depth anaylsis and discussion amongst the Forum.

[paste-UnQuote]

Cordially,
ThaiGold...
==========================================================
Comments Welcomed from anyone/anywhere/anytime.
ThaiRanch@OperaMail.Com
===========================================================

TownCrier (5/2/2000; 1:50:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 29728)
Burning the midnight oil here in The Tower to get the May on-line newsletter out to you fine folks...
http://www.usagold.com/NewGoldMarket.html
Saw Sir lamprey_65's post (05/01/00; 20:30:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 29714)
---BEGIN quote--------------------
Anyone remember that quote from Greenspan?...something like 'Gold is the only real form of payment' or 'Gold is the payment of last resort' or something like that.

Have no doubt...central bankers do know the importance of gold...
---END quote----------------------
Everyone is encouraged to visit the Gilded Opinion link provided above. From her keynote speech at the DENVER GOLD GROUP Mining Investment Forum 1999 in Denver Colorado� October 1999, Miss Haruko Fukuda, CEO of the World Gold Council said:

"Gold is back with its customary charisma. I will tell you an amusing aside. The British Chancellor of the Exchequer may have thought he was getting rid of it. But as we speak today gold is being flown back to London in crates: Brinks Mat vans are busy delivering consignment stocks flown back from lying idle in all parts of the world to London, to the Bank of England and to other gold depositaries. Bullion banks need them for their liquidity.
+
"What greater affirmation can there be for gold as a monetary asset than the declaration by 15 of the world's largest gold holders that 'gold will remain an important element of global monetary reserves'?"
[...]
"The Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, said on 20th May to the House Banking Committee soon after Britain announced its decision to sell gold that (I quote) 'gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world. Germany in 1944 could buy materials during the war only with gold. Fiat money in extremis is accepted by nobody. Gold is always accepted.' (End of quote)"
[...]
"Well-known, respected analysts have been saying "gold is finished", frequently misquoting John Maynard Keynes. Keynes, for instance, never wrote that gold is a "barbarous relic". What he wrote was (I quote): 'In truth, the gold standard is **already** a barbarous relic' (My **italics**; End of quote) - a very different concept. Keynes well understood the complexity and the multiplicity of the role of gold in economics."

[[TownCrier note: Indeed. Please see yesterday's post TownCrier (05/01/00; 18:07:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 29696) where this statement was offered from The Tower for your consideration: "even as monetary evolution brought the "developing and lesser-developed world" [...] to turn away from their [own] old paper in favor of the [U.S.] variety that served their needs, one might say that they are now well-practiced and quite capable of doing it yet again when deemed prudent or advantageous. Again, I come back to evolution explaining the past and dictating the future. The T-Rex once had an impressive rule over the world, but is now only silent fleshless king of the fossil beds or else museum curiosities. Will the T-Bill somehow escape the same fate?
And like the dinosaur, whose flesh has failed while the bones endure, so it is with various monetary systems running the entire spectrum from the gold standard to pure fiat currency. New forms evolve to replace the old forms that fail when their contract/derivative "flesh" falls into decay. However, the bones...the gold...always endures to the new age. As such, the world's population knows many "bone collectors" who practice their "trade" throughout the good life and inevitable decay of their own national currency."]]

Miss Fukuda continues:

"Nobody really knows the extent of the supposed gigantic short positions that have built up over the recent years, possibly even posing a new threat of instability related to those gold derivatives. What does seem certain to me is that the dynamics of the gold derivative markets have changed dramatically as a result of the Washington Agreement limiting central bank lending. The World Gold Council some months ago commissioned a major study on the international market in gold derivatives which we believe will continue to play a significant role in bullion in the future. We expect to complete this study early next summer. With this and in other ways we strive for greater transparency and to encourage all those concerned to make a balanced assessment of the role of gold in our economies."
[...]
She concludes eloquently, "As the Millennium dawns, gold is poised on the threshold of a new era, promising as ever to bring excitement into our lives. Arousing always human passions, its mystique will never fade. As a Renaissance courtier counselled his ducal master 'Cherish the ancient, cherish the golden, you will not be an antiquarian but a man of gold.'"

And if that seems too whimsical, I shall end this twilight post on a practical note, quoting WGC East Asia Regional Director Albert Cheng:

"The lessons of the Asian economic and currency crisis have not been forgotten. During the first quarter of last year, there were people in Indonesia and other Asian countries who were only able to buy food and other necessities because they had some gold they could sell. I want to close today with just one example from a survey we conducted late last year in Indonesia. Mrs. Latiyem told our interviewer, and I quote: -----"I didn't have anything, that is why I sold my gold necklace to buy essentials. I bought things like coconut oil, soap and a paddy field. Once I have sold the rice, I may be able to buy back my gold with the profits."-----------
Mrs. Latiyem and anyone who has heard her story will not forget this powerful demonstration of gold's traditional role as a store of value and an asset of last resort."

Sir lamprey_65, this was a bit more than you asked for, but all good reading nonetheless to start the day.

ViewYesterday's Discussion.

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