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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 12/2/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
auspec
(12/02/00; 18:14:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42708)
Cavan Man
Yes, Cavan Man, "black gold" may be abundant yet TG's message remain intact. That is in fact my read on what is transpiring, mainly from watching what THEY do as opposed to what they say. However the question is too big not to be asked and answered. The answer is unlikely to change my life to much degree, but there is something within me that earnestly seeks explanation as to the "reality" we exist within. Truth won't long remain in the background even if we decide to ignore it for a while as I attempted years ago. These particular truths have almost nothing to do with our eternal destinations, most fortunately. I still want to know more of who the powers are and their modus operandi, even though am also aware of what happens to the curious cat. Cannot help but admire those who risk so much for life's important principles, the Bill Murphys, Chris, Reg Howe and others. These guys have it all on the line and know it full well.
May I share with you one of my life's most profound lessons? Thank you. Probably 12-14 years ago I saw a survey of 70-80 year old folks whom they asked what they most regretted about their lives in general. These savvy elders uniformly answered that they felt they really had not lived their lives to the fullest, they took no chances, and played everything too close to the vest. They never really allowed themselves to develop into whom they could have been- were intended to be. I vowed not to, one day, be 75 years old, and having lived a life of relative safety, regret never fully living. A lot of this human experience is knowledge, spiritual, political, economical, whatever. The phrase- when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear may be applicable here, thus my questions to TG. If he is not the teacher the quest will continue a while longer.
Your message was great about being unemployed in the morning until you get crackin. Yes, they do require a functional serfdom, but they do prefer you not be too nosey!
Oh well, best to you.
auspec
(12/02/00; 18:14:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 42707)
Cavan Man
Yes, Cavan Man, "black gold" may be abundant yet TG's message remain intact. That is in fact my read on what is transpiring, mainly from watching what THEY do as opposed to what they say. However the question is too big not to be asked and answered. The answer is unlikely to change my life to much degree, but there is something within me that earnestly seeks explanation as to the "reality" we exist within. Truth won't long remain in the background even if we decide to ignore it for a while as I attempted years ago. These particular truths have almost nothing to do with our eternal destinations, most fortunately. I still want to know more of who the powers are and their modus operandi, even though am also aware of what happens to the curious cat. Cannot help but admire those who risk so much for life's important principles, the Bill Murphys, Chris, Reg Howe and others. These guys have it all on the line and know it full well.
May I share with you one of my life's most profound lessons? Thank you. Probably 12-14 years ago I saw a survey of 70-80 year old folks whom they asked what they most regretted about their lives in general. These savvy elders uniformly answered that they felt they really had not lived their lives to the fullest, they took no chances, and played everything too close to the vest. They never really allowed themselves to develop into whom they could have been- were intended to be. I vowed not to, one day, be 75 years old, and having lived a life of relative safety, regret never fully living. A lot of this human experience is knowledge, spiritual, political, economical, whatever. The phrase- when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear may be applicable here, thus my questions to TG. If he is not the teacher the quest will continue a while longer.
Your message was great about being unemployed in the morning until you get crackin. Yes, they do require a functional serfdom, but they do prefer you not be too nosey!
Oh well, best to you.
Trail Guide
(12/02/00; 17:57:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42706)
Comments
Hello all!
No, I'm not fully back yet but will try to make time. I have a lot to say and update on and will try to slowly fill it in over the next few weeks.
Randy@ the Tower, so nice to see you here. Don't let Goldhunter off the hook (smile). I'm coming in with my best shot a little further down the road. You may have to hold him while I swing, he's a hard one to pin down? (big smile) Come on Goldhunter, it's only money (bigger smile)!
Cavan Man, Mr. Gresham, Auspec,,,,,, I'll try to infill against your comments. Perhaps tomorrow?
Nice discussions and reporting Black Blade,,,,ORO,,, everyone!
Thanks all
Trail Guide
Zenidea
(12/02/00; 17:30:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 42705)
(No Subject)
Randy@Tower . Indeed. :)
Black Blade . Re: The Ant & the Grasshopper. Sounds like Australian Social policy to me. :)
Cavan Man
(12/02/00; 16:30:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42704)
auspec
It will be interesting to see if Trail Guide responds to your query concerning "black gold". I think, if he does not (respond) then, the alleged existence of a shadow economy etc. has no bearing on his message. In fact, I do believe that one can say (about FOA/Another), "Boy, I really get it. I really understand" without really understanding anything at all. I've made that comment my poor self many times. I think trying to understand TG is like trying to understand and discuss the subject of "creation to eternity"; the Alpha & Omega. The subjects cannot be thoroughly understood until one comes in contact with them personally, in the context of the existence one does understand; that is to say, one's day to day realities in the here and now. All those of us who maintain that, "we really get it", will be quite shocked I think if the paradigm (monetary) shifts. The world at the time will indeed change.
As regards the black gold and holders of same, my life is incredibly rich and has been for over 40 years. I've no concern for them or their "plans" as I have my own designs on both the here and now as well as eternity. Besides, they will still require a functional serfdom working hard on the plantation to keep their ownselves in the high cotton. I do wish them well.
Will the CBers get any "black gold"? Could you ever really know the true answer to that question anyway? I'm (too) long in the tooth....CM
Journeyman
(12/02/00; 16:06:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 42703)
Russian Tax Police get heavenly connection
http://dailynews.netscape.com/mynsnews/story.tmpl?table=n&cat=50900&id=200012010807000205600
Most interesting part of the short off-beat article:
"Russian tax police -- known for storming buildings in black
ski masks to conduct an audit -- have had something of a public
relations problem, as did the widely despised Roman tax
collectors, or "publicans," of biblical times.
St Matthew himself was a publican, before giving up the
profession to follow Jesus. In Matthew's book of the Bible,
Jesus frequently lumps tax collectors along with prostitutes as
being allowed to enter heaven if they accept God."
Regards, j.
Mr Gresham
(12/02/00; 15:58:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 42702)
FOA -- currency timeline
"Truly, the dollar is dying from it's own old age and it's debt burden is the final disease."
With a month away, new perspective arrives. This is really FOA's central message, and the revaluation of gold (vs fiat and other real assets) is a secondary offshoot of this. Also less specifically predictable.
And this is the part that's hardest to see since we little fish swim in a sea of dollars, strive for them, sock them away (not me, anymore).
Learning about how a currency is "transitioned" out to pasture after such a loud career is a big job. It challenges our psychology at every turn.
Welcome back, FOA. I hope your family is entirely well.
Mr Gresham
(12/02/00; 15:49:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 42701)
auspec -- ready?
Second your remarks to FOA: "snippy" is how it's seemed to me, and how I've felt as well. So it's time to start hiking once more!
Also second your request that he consider David G's info in the book that I will order anyday now. (Grasshopper-ish of me.)
No, I'm not entirely ready. Except for the financial preparations we discuss here. And moving out of city to a farm as part of Y2k readiness.
Career is the hard part. My talents in math led me to tax work right out of college. Talk about an unreal world. The IRS Code weaves through my brain cells.
If dollars are a derivative's derivative (debt's green shadow), then taxes are another remove or two away from reality. That's why I've been pursuing monetary education among our colleagues here.
Try to think of what a REAL career is. My most physical job was in construction work, but the product that people were willing to pay me to do was unsatisfyingly artificial.
Farming would get my vote, but we know how well farmers have done these past few decades. Maybe the day is coming. I remember doing two years' work on farms, barefoot in the cornfields and tomato rows. If I have to again, I could. This time the land will be mine.
So why did I rent "The Grapes of Wrath" to watch again last week?
Anyway, just to keep the pot boiling, somewhere in me I believe that you do not learn the economics of work by either welfare or by employment, but only by SELF-employment. Which means that when you wake up every morning you're UN-employed until you get cracking. Cure for anybody's bed-wetting.
YGM
(12/02/00; 15:40:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42700)
This from a 'Friend'
And I also am proud to be a friend of "America"....YGM
One of my people just passed this to me.
I agree - maybe you will enjoy.
Regardless of who wins this election -I'm still proud to
be an American. Always have & Always will be- how about you?
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks
as printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as
the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all
the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who
poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts.
None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When the France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the
Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see
just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the
United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed
Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do
all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.
You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk
about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once,
but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store window for everybody to look at . Even their draft-dodgers are
not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and
most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody
loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone
else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this
thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to
thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Stand proud, America!
CoBra(too)
(12/02/00; 15:31:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42699)
A powerful Message TG/FOA -
- and maybe I should (defensively, now) say, not all the gold produced is equal? - Nor, as Sir Auspec's quest to the existence of "black gold", would dent the end game outcome of the paper game? - Nor, a young paper (fiat) currency as the euro (dubbed zero) - only hapharzadly backed by pitiful 15% gold reserves and not convertible into anything real - only into the fragile political dis-union of the 11 of 15, where the # 1 is fighting # 2 for supremacy - as Nice will tell - can fill the void?
... And as I've missed a clear underwriting of the young new fiat (z-)euro, I'll better call MK to step up my physical acquisition plans ... and, of course, uninhibited locked in -the ground - reserves.
A view from Central (-Western) Europe - and thank you again for your powerful insight - cb2
JavaMan
(12/02/00; 15:25:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 42698)
(No Subject)
http://news.excite.com/news/r/001201/12/news-economy-trade-dc
From the link: "Economists have warned often that the trade deficit was a ticking time bomb. If overseas investors were to stampede to pull their money out of the United States, they argue, the value of the dollar would plunge and interest rates would rise to try to stop the funds from rushing out, causing the economy to slow and, perhaps, the stock market to plunge.
But researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago reject that doom-and-gloom scenario in a recent report, noting that the majority of imports since 1997 have been in the form of direct investment in U.S. factories, firms and technology and in long-term securities -- money that simply can't get yanked back out with a click of a mouse."
JavaMan: I think it might be time to buy some more gold...
auspec
(12/02/00; 12:50:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 42697)
Trail Guide/ Parallel Economies/ Black Gold
Welcome back Trail Guide, you have been sorely missed and in fact folks ar starting to get a bit "snippy" around here in your absence.
Can you weigh in on a couple of controversial yet intriguing ideas so as to clear up some of the murky waters? I am specifically talking of a huge overhang of "Black Gold" as mentioned by David G in post #42684, and also the issue of "parallel" markets and economies mentioned in this post as well as ORO's post #42573. Should these entitees indeed exist they could certainly have some degree of crossover and influence with each other it seems to me. Is the existing "Black Gold" in very strong hands so our banking friends have little access to it? We would greatly appreciate your expounding on these topics as much as you feel comfortable doing. Thank you in advance!
auspec
(12/02/00; 12:22:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42696)
Mr Gresham/ Grasshoppers
Regarding your question---"Is the first picture that comes to your mind for the Grasshopper a non-white American?"
A resounding NO in this case!
I will not begin a moralizing post as to racial prejudices, but the image to me was much more of what is referred to as a "bed wetting liberal" which knows no racial boundaries. May we all use our God given talents, however meager, to the utmost. Are you ready for winter??
Mr Gresham
(12/02/00; 12:11:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 42695)
"The Gold Trail Discussion has been Updated"
Made my day!
Mr Gresham
(12/02/00; 12:08:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 42694)
Ant & Grasshopper
I should probably not poke into this particular hornet's nest, either, but, with all appreciation due to our colleagues who share so much with us, I just gotta ask:
Is the first picture that comes to your mind for the Grasshopper a non-white American?
We've already been propagandized about "welfare queens" since the Reagan era and before. The reality is quite different for most non-Caucasian Americans. You'll have to draw on your own acquaintances, but the hardest-working people I know, on average, are blacks and immigrants. Not a "queen" among them. (They also are the most consistenly church-going groups.)
In times of severe economic dislocation, (like the Clearance Acts in the British Isles two centuries ago, driving peasants into the cities to work in mills or starve), as the manufacturing moving offshore here has been for 20 years, the underclass is driven further downward.
They neither understand the economy they find themselves in, nor do they gravitate toward good education/job choices in it. That takes time and intergenerational continuity that just has not taken place yet. Of course they need to learn how to swim in the times they find themselves in.
In the meantime, what, you let 'em starve? What the Dickens are you talking about? Just hope the Ghost of Christmas Future is gentle with you.
The fact is: NONE of us have understood this economy we've found ourselves in for 20 years. That's what we're HERE trying to figure out. Just that most of us white guys are floating from a higher starting point. Success, yes, from hard work combined with luck. Takes both, but a white skin is a big part of our starting luck. Deny that, man, and you're just tripping, as far as I can see.
That thing about walking in another's moccasins (great metaphor, huh? Think the Indians loan the blacks their moccasins?), remember? This lively mind of mine spending the past 30 adult years inside a black body would have had to learn some serious anger management. How about you?
We've ALL been working harder, for less, these last 20 years. Lots of us white men are angrier, with cause. Loss of status, of wealth. Someone's been eating our porridge, but it ain't the crumbs that have been thrown at welfare that did it. Check the numbers for yourself. It's more waste than welfare, a system grinding its way forward, but as long as you've been successfully pointed at an "enemy", you'll never find it.
Racism is still a social disease in US, as elsewhere.
Propaganda works. Divide and rule.
OK, let fly...
mhchuck
(12/02/00; 11:44:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 42693)
All....
I'm having problems with the activities of the three major bullion banks in the gold market who amongst them have 100 billion in gold derivatives (bet against gold). 100 billion = 100,000,000,000 (one hundred thousand million) …. and if that isn't enough to suppress the price, they'll print up another 100, 200 or 800 billion more if necessary. There is talk of the ECB playing their gold card…ell folks, they already are. The ECB is selling 400 tons a year, not buying (Why do you think the Euro has been plummeting?) When the BOE announced their sales, was there not howling here that their currency would plummet as a result? Why should it be any different when the ECB sells it's gold?….. and the "Washington Agreement" (don't you just love that name) which almost all the participants at the World Gold Conference in Paris lauded, (uh oh!) stipulates that after five years the agreement will be re-evaluated. What if after five years it is their decision to sell 800 tons a year instead of 400.
A petty thief stands in relation to organized crime as organized crime stands in relation to (Central) bankers. What can be done about these criminals that answer to noone and control ALL governments? They control every major news outlet and have circulated and recirculated byline after byline that gold and dirt are about equal, with dirt having a slight edge.
"Ours is the first age in which many thousands of the best trained individual minds have made it a full-time business to get inside the collective public mind. To get inside in order to manipulate, exploit, control is the object now. And to generate heat not light is the intention. To keep everybody in the helpless state engendered by prolonged mental rutting is the effect of many ads and much entertainment alike." (A quote from almost a half-century ago)
Marshall McLuhan.
(This man was 100 years ahead of his time.)
Electronic media is the most pervasive and powerful tool in the history of the world! And in my opinion this is why the paper stranglehold on gold won't be broken anytime soon. It would take great physical gold demand, and the media has seen to it that demand has been neutralized. Just look at the low mintage of American Eagles this year, only 30,000 to 40,000. When Gold was "flying" in 1979-1980 the closing market price was quoted nightly on the evening news of all three major networks. (The bullion banks must have been "long" at that time.)
Much attention has been given to Mr. Greenspan's quote that "Central Banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise," but much less to another statement I deem just as significant (paraphrased) "There will be nostalgic waxing over the relative automaticity of the gold standard for decades to come by those trying to replace it" (Replace it with what, Alan of the forked tongue? **answer below**) I think "DECADES TO COME" is the key phrase that telegraphs their intentions.
There are those who have the romantic notion the Mr. Greenspan is a closet gold bug. I have no respect for the man.
I also have problems with the concept of gold standing apart from fiat as a wealth asset. That would be impossible. For now they stand next to each other and Fiat is considered the wealth asset and gold the imposter. Gold as money would reveal the true imposter. That is why in the past when the game went too far and necessitated a new currency it was "BACKED,"…fiat cannot stand alone in the shadow of gold.
I have no complaints about losing a wager on the wrong horse in a fair race, but when my horse has been drugged and trails the field, I know I have been cheated and am justified in stating that my money was stolen and the outcome was predetermined. There is no doubt in my mind that Barrick was IN ON THE FIX, being "tipped off" by George Bush and others who are on the board of directors. Thus they maximized their hedging polices. (You didn't think Peter Skunk was that smart, did you? And do we want another "Bush" president? After all, he is his father's son.) Politics doesn't attract honest men; I know this because they have to preface their names with "THE HONORABLE." Really, I am a positive person who just tries to be objective.
MAKE NO MISTAKE, GOLD WILL WIN THIS WAR!!!!!!! Gold has lost many battles, but NEVER, NEVER, NEVER A WAR, especially one fought against it with paper. Sad that THEY have now rigged the game so that the holders of gold can only be correct in the event of near or total systemic failure. Then all we need to worry about is them sending authorities to confiscate our gold and instituting severe penalties for being caught holding it. GOLD, you can't smoke it, snort it, or shoot it, but possession of it might result in the same penalties as drugs.
PS: Isn't it funny how stocks like QualComm, Amazon, (or any stock) can split multiple times and climb to an adjusted level of $900 to euphoric cheers, with exhortations to buy more while it's cheap, but if gold rises $20, a National emergency is declared and a media blitz ensues designed to exterminate gold bugs and their message, saying in essence they are dirty, filthy and cause disease. Yes, we do cause them dis-ease since truth and loneliness are best friends……. the people are unfamiliar with truth….. Their leaders (Platonists) keep them in the dark while they bask in a herd mentality.……I call this next quote "CNBC explained."
"There is the instability due to the characteristic of human nature that a large proportion of our positive activities depend on spontaneous optimism rather than on mathematical expectation, whether moral, or hedonistic, or economic. Most, probably, of our decisions to do something positive, can only be taken as a result of animal spirits, of a spontaneous urge to action rather than inaction, and not as the outcome of a weighted average of quantitative benefits multiplied by quantitative probabilities. Thus, if the animal spirits dim, and the spontaneous optimism falters, enterprise will fade and die. In estimating the prospects of investment we must have regard therefore, to the nerves, and hysteria, and even the digestions and reactions to the weather of those upon whose spontaneous activity it largely depends."
John Maynard Keynes
Can anyone tell me how to stop these criminals when any Federal Judge assigned to a legal case against them will be appointed by them? When they will print endless stories exonerating themselves in every major newspaper in the world.
It's the $100,000,000,000 and the prospect of an infinite amount more that is plaguing gold. I think we knew this, but can somebody please explain how all these zeros will be overcome. Not the zeros perpetrating this crime, I was referring to all the zeros in one hundred billion….eleven of them…100,000,000,000.
Since the rules will be changed and the shorts will not be required to deliver physical gold, how will the expected price spike occur?
**Can you say Totalitarianism**
Gold Trail Update
(12/02/00; 11:40:03MDT - Msg ID:42692)
The Gold Trail Discussion has been Updated
The Gold Trail Discussion has been updated. Click on the link to read the latest updates.
Journeyman
(12/02/00; 11:34:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 42691)
Ant & Grasshopper: The Untold Story @Black Blade msg#: 46285, ALL
You may want to read Black Blade's rendition of the Ant and Grasshopper Aesop's Fable before you read this. His rendition is further down the page. Search for "msg#: 42685".
A researcher discovered an obscure interview with the grasshopper in a poorly circulated libertarian publication. The interview had taken place only days before Hopper was killed in what turned out to be an incident related to the Mr. Hopper's budding new profession. This led to Geraldo's now famous expose,
"Ant and Grasshopper: The Untold Story."
Here is, word for word, the obscure interview from that poorly circulated publication that Geraldo's staff worked from:
Raimondo: I'm here with Mr. G. Hopper, quite a celebrity of late. Mr. Hopper, can you tell me in your own words how you ended up destitute?
Hopper: Well, Justin, I've been giving that some thought lately. Sure I played around a lot last summer, but I believed I would be well taken care of by the government. I'm no lawyer, but they have all these plans -- unemployment insurance, disability -- even Social Security for when I'm old. I knew no matter what I did I'd be well taken care of. I mean FDR, Al Gore and "Dubya" all promised didn't they?
Raimondo: So you're saying that you didn't provide better for yourself because you thought others were going to take care of you?
Hopper: Well, yea, that was part of it. And after all, I DID pay for all these things, and I paid a lot! Would you like to see my pay stub? And after all the money they took from me, I _couldn't_ save -- there wasn't any left over.
Raimondo: Well Mr. Hopper, I can tell you you're not alone: The savings rate in America went negative earlier this year. On average, you're average.
Hopper: In fact, and I don't quite know how it happened to me, but I was maxed out on all my credit cards too! They just kept sending me these things, encouraging me to use them and all their easy money. They sent me my first one at the beginning of my freshman year in college when I didn't even have a job. How serious can they be about expecting to be paid back? I have ten or fifteen of them here somewhere. (Rummaging around under his right wing) Yea, here's one that they still take --- want to go have a beer somewhere? I'm buying.
Raimondo: So after all the deductions by governments you couldn't afford to save?
Hopper: Yea, that and the credit card payments and the car loan -- after all those payments I had less than 10% of my paycheck left. That's when I realized I'd never get out of debt. Reminds me of that old song, "You load sixteen tons and what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt," something, something "I owe my soul to the company stow." I think that's when my drinking problem started -- I wasn't really partying last summer, I was just trying to escape. And you know, the sad thing is it doesn't work.
Raimondo: Well, Mr. Hopper, I'm an interviewier not a councilor, but you CAN take control of your life.
Hopper: I have I think. I discovered that Mr. Ant had quite a lucrative business. There were some papers and things in the house. And you know his house wasn't really siezed for taxes -- that was just another media reporting error. They took it under civil asset forfeiture statutes. It seems Mr. Ant had been in the same situation I was. He discovered the only way to save was to not pay the 50% or so of his income taken by the IRS and F.I.C.A. "Social Security" tax.
Raimondo: So how did Mr. Ant manage that?
Hopper: He got into the underground economy. He became a drug dealer. Everyone saw him scurring diligently about all over the neighborhood at all hours. Well sure! He was well paid -- and he didn't have Uncle Sam as his silent vampire.
Raimondo: So you're going to become a drug dealer?
Hopper: I just joined the local distribution network yesterday! How about that!
Raimondo: It's pretty dangerous work sometimes. You know there are other safer things besides drugs to sell on the truly free markets.
Hopper: What do you mean "truly free markets?"
Raimondo: Oh, you're not a libertarian. I should have said "black market." That's the propaganda name the establishment uses to discredit some free markets.
Hopper: Oh. O.K. Whatever. But what things besides drugs can I sell?
Raimondo: Well some people are bringing in "black market" 5-gallon flush-toilets from Canada. Congress in it's infinite wisdom made it illegal to install any of these high capacity water closets here in the freest country in the world.
Hopper: Wow! Where can I get one. That sucker the ant had -- shucks, I have to flush that turkey three times. And even that's not enough half the time!
Raimondo: See the possibilities?
Hopper: Any other opportunities like that?
Raimondo: Well, they just made top loading automatic washers illegal here in the freest country in the world.
Hopper: Haw haw! That's a good one. Top loading washers illegal. Gafaw gafaw. I see you have a sense of humor as well as being a descent counselor!
Raimondo: I do have a good sense of humor, but this isn't a joke. They really did make the manufacture of new top-loader washers illegal.
Hopper: Why?
Raimondo: Front-loaders are the alternative and because of the front loading "feature" they can only wash smaller loads using less water.
Hopper: They think this will save water?? Well, DUH!!! We'll just have to do MORE loads, which will use MORE water. Where did these jerk-offs come from?
Raimondo: Washington D.C. Same folks who gave you that water-saving crapper that you have to serially flush. And the same place that says Social Security will take care of you in your old age.
Hopper: Wow! These guys really ARE taking care of us. What an opprotunity! Normal toilets and top-loading washers. No taxes! I'll be on easy street, just like the ant! I'm gonna quit the drug gang right now. (the hopper abruptly hops off down the street at high speed)
Raimondo: (Calling after him) You may want to be careful trying to quit that drug gang . . .
Regards,
Journeyman
P.S. You can see more of Justin Raimondo's work by logging on to antiwar.com.
RossL
(12/02/00; 11:26:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 42690)
ET - #42689
excellent article - thanks
ET
(12/02/00; 10:43:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 42689)
Lew Rockwell
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/paleo1.html
From the article;
"Eventually, of course, exactly as Rothbard had predicted, Buchanan went one
way and the spirit of what we might call paleo-paleoism went another. Today,
Buchanan is finished, like many a protectionist-nationalist office seeker
before him. Meanwhile, the radical spirit of bourgeois opposition to the US
State and all its works is everywhere on display. Indeed, the attempt by Gore
to seize power contrary to the Constitution has emboldened the movement like
never before."
DaveC
(12/02/00; 10:25:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 42688)
Day Trader Chat From Yahoo Message Board
The Death came upon....
by: lolalita28 11/30/00 4:15 pm
Msg: 3 of 3
And yes my gentle friends, the death is waiving its evil vail infront of my eyes every time I look at the streaming chart @ Quote.com. Just to say that because of the unholly doings of the mighty Stock Market I had to get a day job! The first in 2 years!! Can I live on my savings? you may ask - NO, 'cause that's what I've been doing for the past 8 months! and now... from having $135,000 in January I went to living on $2,000/month from the day job, with a $1,200 morgage & a new BMW, all acquired in the .com explosion. Now, can you say it's not death??!
Cavan Man
(12/02/00; 10:24:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 42687)
USAGOLD 42672
Hello Stranger
Are these guys over at Prudent Bear crepe hangers? Would you please comment on this latest PB discussion? Thanks Stranger.
tedw
(12/02/00; 09:37:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 42686)
Manipulation
http://www.usagold.com
First of all, Black Blade thank you for your recent post on the Comex. Black Blade is one of the most valuable assets on this forum: his updates on oil and metals are timely and informative. I personally appreciate the time he takes to post, and I think we all owe him a big Thank You.
I am intereseted in both Goldhunter and Black Blades thoughts on GATA's theory of conspiracy to depress the price of Gold.
Also their thoughts on what is happening with the silver market now.
Black Blade
(12/02/00; 09:32:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 42685)
Aesop's Fable – The Ant and the Grasshopper
I often refer to Aesop's fable "The Ant and the Grasshopper." I saw this posted on one of the other sites a couple of times, but it is so much like how life is in the USA. In other words, punish the successful and reward the lackards.
Aesop's Fable – The Ant and the Grasshopper
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.
MODERN VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer way. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to now why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed
while others are cold and starving. CBS, NBC and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper
next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing "It's Not Easy Being Green." Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing "We shall overcome". Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake. Al Gore exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share". Finally, the EEOC drafts the economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act", retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government. Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients. The ant loses the case. The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.
Black Blade: I'm off to kill some ducks. As Arnie would say "I'll be back." :-)
auspec
(12/02/00; 09:30:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 42684)
@ORO/ Parallel World/ David G
Your humble messenger boy is posting on behalf of David G as he is up to his ears in research. I know this is less than ideal, but is also considerably better than nothing. Message per David........................................Hi Auspec: Thanks for sending me Oro's message. I'm afraid things have been very hectic lately which has meant that I have been unable to visit the board myself.
I have every reason to believe that my SECRET GOLD TREATY book is only the beginning. There are bigger things afoot, although discovering that there is over 1 million tonnes of gold in existence versus official figures of about 140,000 tonnes is no small thing by itself. What we have are two distinct and totally separate financial and economic systems. One is open to daylight and is reported daily by the world media. The other is "black" and the media know never to ever report it, or if they do, they treat it as scams and frauds. There are a lot of those, too, but that is by no means the whole picture. The black world economy is simply massive in terms of transactional size when compared to the official world financial markets, although velocity is, naturally, a great deal smaller. As they say on the television adverts "size counts." This hidden market is to do with gold in the main but is not just gold related... a lot of paper is involved too.
There are still a large number of people with an interest in gold who haven't read my book yet. Obviously, I would recommend they did so, if they want to come up to speed on the hidden reality of the financial and metal markets. They would be in the company of Goldman Sachs, for example, who have been visiting and reading the site where the book is available (www.solari.com/goldtreaty/ ). Another interesting visitor was the US Army Corp of Engineers. I couldn't figure this out until it struck me that engineers digs things up. Many others have also shown an interest, too, including, I am told, someone close to one of the present Presidential candidates. Gold has many strange bedfellows it would appear.
I agree with Oro's analysis you sent. Although it seems foolish to most observers because it is out of their experience and because they have been trained to think in terms of official/public figures and statistics, transactions in the trillions of dollars do occur. I realised that very few individuals (other than those who know because they are involved) would accept this statement at face value. That is why I provided supporting documentary evidence in the book.
I am being circumspect in discussing this for many different and solid reasons, but I hope the foregoing will provide some small insight to the "other" world where the really big boys breathe and operate and grow to become billionaires overnight. Meanwhile, the world we know and think of as being the "real" world is simply a contrivance -- a hologram of unreality that is adorned with a necklace and bracelet of gold and gems and which has some dollar bills stuffed in its pseudo-wallet. As long as we continue being dazzled by the hologram, we'll never be able to see what lies behind the projection.
Regards
David
Cavan Man
(12/02/00; 09:28:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 42683)
Canuck
If you're reading this morning, could you recommend a locale to stay in Nova Scotia that we could use as a jumping off point to see the larger area? Sorry for the off topic.
turkey hunter
(12/02/00; 09:07:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 42682)
@ Rockgrabber
I liked that banner above the story. Got a good laugh. Just to see it blinking above the title seemed to appear as a messsage from God above.
Turkey Hunter
Mr Gresham
(12/02/00; 09:00:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 42681)
Bill Parish & Citigroup
http://www.billparish.com/citigrouppyramid.html
Bill Parish always has some interesting sleuth work to share...
Rockgrabber
(12/02/00; 08:46:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 42680)
Iraq to war with Israel help from Iran? Yes
http://www.worldtribune.com/index-one-text.html
I hope that link gets you where it is suppose to, dont overlook the funny banner right above the article, I am sure you wont.
Rockgrabber
(12/02/00; 08:36:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 42679)
JavaMan
RIGHT ON!! Those Rasta folks are super people!! Peter Tosh is a man that may not look like he knows, but not many that have lived understood human compasion like that man. I believe he won a nobel peace prize for his NO More Nuclear War, nothing was hidden from his eyes. JavaMan I will come clean on something myself, if I loose whatever credibiltity I might have otherwise been granted, so be it, but I smoke ganja from getting up to going to bed (the goverment sure hates it)((Matter of fact Goverment report "The Report from Iron Mountain" explains how Ganja is eye opening, and that is not what they want. I just love good people that mean no harm, as do they. They understand the implications of lies and evil doings. I am just stoked that you saw they are good people, even though they may not look like you White House Lawyer, they are good people.
Rockgrabber
(12/2/2000; 8:21:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 42678)
General Thoughts
Turkey Hunters previous link is disputable forsure, hehehe. Come on if Gold rips Silver will rip on an even larger % basis. Or if somehow silver did not rise with gold then just give it a bit of time from there. That would encourage a storm of physical hording of silver if Gold takes off and somehow silver did not. CBS news stuff is not always the best source for true info, but all else being said in that article sounds good. Can anyone here see how Gold could take off, and not Silver?
Cunuck, this oil market is just funny as can be. But BlackBlade has done a SUPPURB job of showing how a news story one day means nothing the next. BlakeBlade does a fine job showing that this is a BULL OIL market, and yes a crises is setting up(thanks BlackBlade). But in all seriousness With Iraq making that announcement, I cant believe that the market saw this as a positive, and decided collectivly that oil was worth less without Iraqi oil on the market.UUUUMMMM Good time to go long some options again. (This is investment advice... When oil dips you buy.) This is a bull market like the stocks used to be.
Iraq has more allies then it appears here on this oil issue. I do think along with BlakeBlade, the writing is on the wall here, we are going full speed ahead toward an oil crises. When you have comapanies trading at prices that are as high as all of the OPEC nations oil output for a year you have a pricing problem, that would be what you call unrealistic prices. You dont have to but your tickets on the computer, you dont have to go buy a new computer one cause you other is outdated, you dont have to pay or veiw those stupid porno sites What type of money are you forced to pay into profits for these internet comapnies?????? Now you do have to pay for gas to go to work,(If work will even be available)((Who is going to be paying overpayed lazy American workers when they wont have the money to pay anyhow)) you do have to pay Oil companies and producers for their services if you wish to see take a trip to the grocery store for food. This is about what is real and what is not, oil is for real, and anybody who does not buy that will just go to be surprised here when they find they have to. Internet companies, hahaha, all they have done is taken on large debt ((Why we have so much money expansion)) and wont beable to pay it back, they will fall like flies. MAN WE HAVE TROUBLES COMING!!! Keep an eye out they are coming from all angles!!
Strive to find Truth, truth is always the anser.
JavaMan
(12/2/2000; 8:14:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 42677)
Hello all...
http://www.plata.com.mx/plata/english.htm
Just got back from a trip to Jamaica. Stopped at the currency window at the airport and exchanged $20 for the local currency and I got $800 Jamaican dollars - 40 to 1 exchange rate. I found out later that $US are accepted everywhere. I also saw a fine example of Gresham's law at work...when you buy something in $J dollars you get your change in $J dollars. When you buy something in $U.S. dollars, you get your change in $J dollars. Simple.
Met a guy who was visiting from Germany. He lamented that he had a good friend in Colorado that he would like to visit but couldn't because of the exchange rate between the euro and $U.S. He confirmed that life is just fine if one stays within the EU community to conduct financial transactions. Interesting guy...he spoke German, fluent English and Partois, the local Jamaican dialect - "Jah Mon".
While there, I met many Rastafarians who are really very beautiful people but their appearance easily (mis-) leads one to believe they are the lower class, less intelligent people of the island. The truth is that they often turn out to be multi-lingual and quite sharp. One of them told me they learn a language from exposure to the tourists. What amazed me most is that they smoke their ganja (read high grade marijuana that will rip your face off) from the moment they get up in the morning until they go to bed at night. Don't know how they can even find their way home let alone learn another language under those conditions.
After I got back from my trip, I reviewed about a weeks worth of posts. Certainly too many to respond to but one of particular interest was a post (by Journeyman, I believe) with a link to a great article by Hugo Salinas Price regarding Big Float. I navigated around the site and found the link above which lists several other articles from Price that are well worth reading. They have provided me with a clearer understanding regarding the $U.S. since Bretton Woods and the Nixon gold default in 1971. Also, one of the articles contains a great graph that illustrates the increase in $U.S. holdings of Central Banks before and after 1971 as well as their gold bullion holdings.
Good to be back...
Canuck
(12/2/2000; 8:13:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 42676)
Last post re: Prudent Bear
The link to the credit article (below) is a 'must read'.
The entire picture has struck me on the side of the head like a 2 x 4.
This 'puppy' is going down boys and girls. Our astute leaders, FOA, Ari, Oro et all have nailed this thing precisely. Paper is to burn; money, loans, derivatives, shares the whole thing. Everything, non-tangible is toast.
Physical ANYTHING is the prudent choice, physical money is number one. Paper money is to deflate big-time, it has to because it has been puffed up for years, inflated beyond recognizable conditions.
Only a decade ago I recall people talking of being a millionaire, this is passe, you have to be a billionaire now.
Gold and silver is 98% traded in paper form, money is '98%' bloated, derivatives are '98%' bloated, money has been fractionalized to the point where it's '98%' nothing. It's all the same thing. Paper, in all forms is 98% nothing.
Prudentbear describes the beginning of the unwinding, it will be the scariest debacle in the history of finance.
The US election mess is no accident, Canada called it's election on the heels of the US's because 'THEY' know. TPTB
know what's going to happen.
FOA, Ari and Oro are not posting because it's TIME. We are going to witness it boys and girls, THE HARD LANDING.
All the paper has shifted to the US because it had to, the last hurray, now it's over. The odds of a soft landing becomes more implauseible (sp?) by the minute.
Gore/Bush and Chretian will inherit the 'MONSTER UNWIND' and I wish them luck for all of our sakes. Prepare and brace.
(ALL above IMHO, none above to be construed as advice, opinion only)
Canuck.
turkey hunter
(12/2/2000; 7:38:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 42675)
News Article. Gold will rise silver will not
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/stwatch.htx?source=htx/http2_mw
A former gold traders sees gold rising but silver will not because there is to much of it.
Turkey Hunter
wolavka
(12/2/2000; 7:29:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 42674)
sharefin
I like gldr also, good work!
Canuck
(12/2/2000; 7:22:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 42673)
@ Black Blade
I simply do not understand the oil drop yesterday.
Iraq announces a production halt and crude drops? Even if OPEC promises to 'fill the gap' how can this be perceived as good news (ie crude dropping?)
I don't follow?????
Canuck
(12/2/2000; 7:17:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 42672)
Prudentbear is talking more decisively of late.
http://www.prudentbear.com/credit.htm
" Quite simply, the financial and economic excesses have been too great and the damage monumental, and there is today simply no way around the consequences. One of the more cogent comments we have heard recently came from CNBC's Ron Insana who stated that the present environment is similar to the 1998 crisis, with the U.S. this time at the "epicenter."
-End quote-
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 6:59:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 42671)
"Gasoline for $3 a gallon"
by Ken Moritsugu, Knight Ridder Newspapers.
A leading oil market analyst warned Wednesday that gasoline prices could reach $3 per gallon next summer and that crude oil could rise to $50 per barrel in the next two to four years. "We're not quite in an energy crisis, but one is developing and I think this one's going to last longer and it's going to be a lot more difficult to resolve," said Philip Verleger Jr., who frequently testifies before Congress on energy issues. His scenario is at odds with the view of most other analysts, who believe that both oil and gasoline prices will ease somewhat next year. The Department of Energy projects that regular unleaded gasoline will average about $1.40 per gallon next summer, down from $1.52 this summer. But several experts agreed that the risk exists for higher prices if, for example, Iraq were to withhold its oil exports. There is little excess supply of oil, gasoline or heating oil in the United States, so any supply interruption or increase in consumption will create shortages that push prices up. "I don't think it's the most probable outcome, but it's definitely possible," said Bruce Cavella, an oil industry analyst for Standard & Poor's/DRI, an economic consulting firm in Lexington, Mass. "There could be any number of factors that could make oil go up to $45 because the market is tight." In a luncheon address to the Institute for International Economics, a think tank, Verleger painted a bleak picture for energy prices for the next four years. He predicted gasoline would reach $2.50 to $3 per gallon this summer and could reach $4 to $5 per gallon in two to three years. Prices that high could drive the U.S. economy, already expected to slow next year, into hard times. "That run-up in gas prices would be like a huge tax increase," said Mark Vitner, economist at First Union Corp., a Charlotte, N.C.-based bank. "It would take money away from consumers and leave them less to spend on everything else." Verleger blamed today's high prices mostly on bottlenecks in two areas: getting crude oil from overseas to the United States and refining that crude into gasoline, winter heating oil and other finished products. He added that aging U.S. pipelines to deliver those products leave regions such as the Midwest vulnerable to the pipeline breaks that helped drive up gasoline prices there to over $2 per gallon for a time earlier this year. Old infrastructure and logistical constraints create "a sclerosis" of the energy system, said Verleger, who runs his own consulting firm out of Newport Beach. "It's freezing up." OPEC nations, which produce 40 percent of the world's oil, has increased production this year. Despite tanker problems, that oil eventually should reach the United States, analysts say.
Black Blade: DITTO!
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 6:31:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 42670)
REUTERS: "Oil Producers Reassure; Prices Drop $1.73"
by Jonathan Leff. 'LONDON (Reuters) -
Oil prices fell on Friday as traders took to heart pledges from key oil producers and consumers to compensate any supply shortages after Iraq made good on its pledge to turn off its oil taps. Oil loadings ceased at Iraq's two approved export terminals and crude flows through a main pipeline stopped late Thursday as a pricing dispute with the United Nations (news - web sites) reached its climax. But after an initially bullish reaction, Brent Blend crude oil for January slumped $1.73 cents to end at $30.15 per barrel after earlier touching an eight-week low of $30.10. U.S. benchmark light crude futures closed $1.77 cents lower at $32.05 a barrel after shedding 81 cents or 2.3 percent on Thursday when U.S. Energy Secretary Bill Richardson first attempted to soothe fears of any shortfall in supplies. Two weeks ago Iraq told its customers all December sales would be subject to a 50-cent per barrel surcharge direct to an Iraqi bank account. It recently reaffirmed the tariff and said it would become effective as of midnight on Thursday. United Nations rules require Iraqi oil sales revenues go into an escrow account in New York where Iraqi purchases must be approved by a U.N. sanctions committee as part of oil-for-food. Iraq Denies Responsibility. Iraq, which makes up about five percent of internationally traded crude or just over two million barrels per day, denied responsibility for the interruption. "Iraq is determined to stick to its stand and its rights," the official Iraq news agency quoted an oil ministry spokesman as saying on Friday. Baghdad's proposed December crude prices -- which must be approved by the United Nations -- were widely seen as below market value in order to compensate for the 50-cent premium. The United Nations rejected these prices, although it said lifters could continue to take oil for later payment in an effort to throw the blame back on Baghdad. But immediate reaction to the cut in supplies was limited as futures and physical oil traders had been bracing for the disruption since Baghdad announced the new policy two weeks ago. Instead, most traders chose to focus on assurances from the world's largest producers and consumers that the loss of Iraqi crude would not cause any shortage in oil.
Black Blade: It's going to get real fun real soon.
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 6:25:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 42669)
Reaction mixed to Iraq oil cutoff - It's only just begun!
Friday, 1 December 2000 14:36 (ET)
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec.1 (UPI) -- Iraq Friday carried out its threat to halt oil exports after the United Nations rejected an Iraqi request to increase the price of its oil. Oil prices on the world market responded overall by dipping after Iraq cut off supplies passing through the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan and Iraq's port of Mina al-Bakr on the Persian Gulf. The price of benchmark Brent crude was down to $32.27 compared to $32.68 on Thursday on the international spot market. Only Dubai light rose, presumably in theexpectation of increased sales to come.
Iraq is the Middle East's third largest producer after Saudi Arabia and Iran. It has been exporting an estimated 2.4 million barrels of oil a day, some five percent of world trade. Almost all of it has reached the world market from the Ceyhan terminal. The U.N. said the requested surcharge would violate the sanctions's requirement that all income from oil transactions pass through the U.N. under its oil-for-food program. The move by Iraqi ruler Saddam Hussein was the latest in Iraq's efforts to undo U.N. sanctions imposed after Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990. Iraq has been growing steadily more confident in recent months amid widening cracks in the sanctions regime, including the resumption of flights to Baghdad and restored trading by various countries. Iraq appears to some analysts to be as good as out of the box in which the United States has claimed to keep Saddam.
Baghdad Thursday again rejected proposals for new U.N. inspections to determine that Saddam was not acquiring an armory of weapons of mass destruction. Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz gave a blunt "No" when asked whether Iraq would accept verification missions headed by chief inspector Hans Blix. Inspectors have not been allowed into Iraq since the US and the UK launched air raids on Baghdad nearly two years ago. The U.N. says the sanctions would only be lifted after inspectors have verified the absence of WMD.
The United States has said it and its allies would take swift remedial action if Iraq halted oil exports. Energy Secretary Bill Richardson said Washington was ready to release more oil from its strategic petroleum reserve, and would do so quickly if needed. Richardson also said several oil-exporting countries in the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia, had pledged to compensate for any shortfall. Oil sales are believed to have raised Iraq's kitty for food and medicine to about $11 billion, enabling Baghdad to sustain a halt in oil sales for some time, observers said. Iraq also derives income from the tolerated sail of diesel fuel taken by road to Turkey and by oil smuggled down the Persian Gulf. Baghdad. and Damascus recently announced that a pipeline from the Iraqi oil center of Kirkuk to the Syrian Mediterranean port of Banias would be reopened.
Black Blade: Oil prices pulled back as US officials said that there will be no problem as other OPEC producers will make up the shortfall. Fat Chance! They are at production capacity and also are considering production cuts at the January OPEC meeting. US officials also said that they would also consider tapping the SPR for any oil shortage. NG looks hotter than ever - you can't import cheap NG!
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 6:06:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 42668)
Good Gold News from Elko, NV and Sen. Harry Reid
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=1135993&BRD=1124&PAG=461&dept_id=140561&rfi=6
Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada says that POG will rise next year. The link tells it all.
wolavka
(12/2/2000; 5:50:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 42667)
Accountability
Doesn't matter who is right or wrong:
Help those and say nothing
Dum vivimus vivamus
justamereBear
(12/2/2000; 5:13:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 42666)
Goldhunter 42627 Hill Billy Mitchell 42650
Goldhunter
Well time will tell whether Randy is a fool or not. However, I would like to enquire whether you really feel that strongly about the issue, or if you just enjoy stirring the pot? If the former, there is an old adage, "you can catch more flys with honey than you can with vinegar". But then why would you want to catch flys?
I might add that few people at this site are here to make money, as represented by the US dollar. I certainly am not, and unless you understand the distinction, you are blowing air.
Hill Billy Mithchell
Now we are reading from at least nearby pages, if not the same page. Trade has gone on for far longer than 300 years, I will concede, and it will go on. However my concern is that if we get some form of upheaval that the rapidly changing conditions will promote some pretty irrational thinking, which in turn will create more tension. As you say, trade can be accomplished without a medium of exchange, but it is easier using a common medium of exchange.
Personally, I feel strongly that I want to be in a position to accomplish trade if some form of meltdown occurs. Anything I can accomplish now when more or less rational thinking is the order of the day, I want to do. No one can know how the future will play out, but we can speculate, and I do. I can't tell how well my plans will work out, but they undoubtedly will be better than no plans. One of my contingency plans involves precious metals, much like everyone else here. Some others are into Real Estate, which I am not AT THIS TIME. Liquidity and flexability are the order of the day, IMHO.
Thanks for your time, and best regards
j'Bear
The Invisible Hand
(12/2/2000; 5:05:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 42665)
Thank You Rockgrabber
RG,
I am a little late and perhaps others have done it before me, but your msg 42584 was great.
Thank You for outlining so brilliantly what poor minds like mine get from this Forum.
The IVH.
(12/1/2000; 1:16:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42584)
HUGE THANKS
This is just fantastic that I have been able to gather such valuable information for myself, as I am an ohterwise lost individual. But I have been directed to a great spot for relevant an insightful info, and for that I must give up thanks, even if gold tanks, I know of the truth that is being strived for here. How can truth be wrong?? Keep uncovering truth, and may I thank all who are doing so thanks. Thank you for all the years, of serious devotion to more then just research of how to benifit for yourselfs, but to all the REAL thought that has gone into uncovering truth. Eventually lets kill the lies in whatever the truth is being hidden in.
wolavka
(12/2/2000; 4:44:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 42664)
Quod erat demonstrandum
DE JA VU!
We all know nothing is fair in life. Look @ the election.
Why do you people continue to fight over what everyone already knows.
I have done this for years and I have seen thin mkts , locked mkts, flat mkts, bull mkts, bear mkts etc.
Trade it!!!!
Like miss piggy said, when the going gets rough, you are obviously in the wrong place.
wolavka
(12/2/2000; 4:33:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 42663)
Dr. wong say:
"You cannot trade dollars for hours.
You run out of time in life."
Some work for minimum wage
Some work for 15.00- 20.00 hr.
Some work for 100,000.00 hr.
All is paper. end of story.
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 4:27:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42662)
RE: Se--or histres
Se--or Histres,
Usted trae un interesante sujeto a este foro. Yo también estoy muy interesado en tesoro de espa--ol perdido viejo. Yo he seguido las haza--as de Se--or Mel Fischer y su localizando el Atocha. Recientemente, yo he estado esperando por la exhibici--n del S.S. Central América que hundi-- fuera de de la costa de los Carolinas en los Estados Unidos. Me gustar'a obtener unas doblones oro espa--ol viejo para mi colecci--n. Usted puede haber notado que nuestro anfitri--n Michael Kosares tiene algunos para la venta. Gracias por la informaci--n y la suerte buena. Perdoname, por que no escrito muy bueno en espa--ol. Hace much tiempo desde que huve mucho optertunidad a practicarlo.
- Black Blade
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 4:11:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 42661)
Death of a Rigged Metals Market (Re-Post)
Previously posted during the palladium default a few months ago!
The Palladium markets have been under some very strange manipulations over the last several weeks. There is a very good chance that Palladium will be delisted or very severely restricted from futures trading in the near future. Much of this is a result of greedy unscrupulous and probable criminal actions of those that manage and oversee the commodities exchanges in Tokyo at the Tokyo Commodities Exchange (TOCOM) and the New York Metals Exchange (NYMEX). The troubles began when more contracts for Palladium metal were sold than actual deliverable physical metal in the possession of certain counter-parties.
This story has its beginnings in the Fall of the Soviet Union. First Russia is the source for about 70% of the worlds Palladium The Palladium is a by-product from nickel mining operations at Norilsk Nickel. Another simple fact is that the Russians have been in a very serious hard currency crunch since the collapse of the Soviet Empire. The Russians took out loans and issued worthless bonds for a few years as they struggled to dig their way out of over 70 years of government mismanagement under communist rule. The Russian Bond default almost brought world markets under severe pressure and many firms went under. However, these people in Russia had no experience with a free-market and still operated their economy under corrupt Soviet-style management practices, they over-taxed businesses, they stole foreign investment moneys, and they even got into bed with Russian Organized Crime. Anything of value was looted by criminals and corrupted individuals, many of whom themselves are Russian Politicians or former Politburo members. In the resulting hard currency crunch as the worthless Russian bonds came due and were eventually defaulted on, there was a rush to shake down legitimate businesses through extortion and excessive taxation, to sell off former state-owned enterprises to corrupt cronies of Russian politicians for a pittance, and to loot hard assets including government stockpiles precious metals. The simple fact is that the PGM stockpiles of many years worth of mining are depleted. Any PGMs that are to be delivered will have to come from current mining production at Norilsk Nickel. A major problem at Norilsk Nickel as with most any enterprise in Russia is 1) that the operations are grossly inefficient and are in dire need of funds to upgrade operations to at least 20th century standards, and 2) the Russian workers don't get paid on a regular basis which is not only bad for morale, but does not provide a lot of incentive for productivity. Unfortunately many businesses still try to run on the old Soviet model which simply does not work. In the old Soviet Union, workers were paid a set rate whether or not they were productive. In the real world, this does not provide an incentive to produce goods and services. No matter how you slice it, there is no sufficient supply of Russian Palladium coming to market.
The Russians tried to disguise this inefficiency by employing delaying tactics while in negotiations with the Japanese in talks earlier this year. Eventually the talks resulted in much higher prices for the Palladium contracts, yet supply has not reached the market in any meaningful quantity and is sporadic at best. Realizing the severity of the problem, many commodities investors in Japan bought heavily into the Palladium futures contracts. Like most any greedy and corrupt organization, the TOCOM generously wrote contracts for what was undeliverable metal without checking whether or not this commodity was even in existence. But greed is a powerful emotion and the TOCOM became a place of wild dealing and speculation. They thought that they could control the situation with numerous press releases and by setting "analysts" loose with erroneous information in an effort to deceive the market. Eventually this became a delaying tactic of choice as they searched for a way out of the developing short squeeze. Many who had actually believed the erroneous reports went short the Palladium market. The market was totally out of control. More and more press releases were set loose on the investment community that there were deliveries of Palladium on the way, and that they would arrive "any day" now. The situation was getting more critical almost on an hourly basis as it was beginning to become apparent that the metal was not coming to market. Soon many traders began to go long Palladium futures. The short squeeze was on! The TOCOM manipulators got caught with their pants around their ankles and even with the risk of "losing face", they did the most dishonorable thing that they could. They defaulted on the Palladium contracts! In effect, they shut down the Palladium market. They forced the longs to settle at market in order to help bail out the shorts. The free-market in Palladium on the TOCOM was killed.
Now we move to New York were the last bastion of the "so-called" free-market in commodities is located in the from of the New York Metals Exchange (NYMEX). Many commodities investors thought that at least in the USA there wouldn't be such gross manipulation of the Palladium market. They were to be proven wrong. A short review of the Hunt Brothers and the Silver squeeze and the more recent settlement at market on the contracts during the developing short squeeze when the Washington Agreement was announced should have been a lesson learned. The corrupt managers of manipulative commodities exchanges such as the NYMEX change rules at will in order to manipulate the markets and to ultimately steal from investors. The latest manipulation in Palladium brings us to New York. In early August after the TOCOM had defaulted on Palladium futures contracts, the NYMEX realized that they too had a developing short squeeze in the works. What to do? Why not engineer a profit making scheme and manipulate the Palladium market at the same time? Hell, the CFTC is a toothless tiger, so why not? They didn't investigate curious happenings in other metals markets, so the signal was given that the CFTC would not interfere.
In early August, the NYMEX imposed substantial margins on Palladium futures contracts. The result was to drive prices lower in a grossly obvious manipulation of the Palladium market. This caused many investors to quickly exit the market in order to lock their profits. On August 14, the September Palladium contract fell as much as $60 per ounce. Now all exchanges require margin in order to cover the risk of losses, but in the Palladium market, this went beyond reality. Margins were raised six times in short order. On August 15th it was raised to $60,000 per contract, on August 16th it was raised to $80,000 per contract, and on August 17Th it was raised yet again to $100,000 per contract! Of course the 100 ounce contract was only worth $74,000 per contract at that time. The manipulation scheme by the NYMEX criminals was on! The washout of certain investors was set with bogus excuses such as to "ensure an orderly market" - read "manipulated market". By the close of business on August 18th, the margin on contract had risen over the course of 10 days to $100,000 from $5,000 for clearing house members, to $110,000 from $5,000 for members, and to $135,000 from $6.750 for customers. Many had wondered how can a margin requirement be set for as much as 150% of the total contract value? This was unprecedented! They weren't finished! They even had the gall to announce that margins would be raised further to $200,000 as if to tempt fate with the emasculated CFTC, however, this was eventually rescinded prior to implementation. I guess like all cockroaches, when the lights are turned on they scatter to the dark recesses to get out of under public scrutiny.
What was the NYMEX trying to do? The answer is obvious - manipulation, pure and simple! Open interest on outstanding contracts (September) had fallen from 852 to 783 contracts when the market opened after the announcement. Open interest in December futures increased to 1,234 contracts from 900 contracts, indicating that 300 rollovers had taken place. Many angry market participants claim that this was the intention of the NYMEX manipulators. The NYMEX simply wanted to force as many players out of the market as possible before a truly powerful (and profitable) short squeeze began, or better yet, manipulate the price lower to bail out the shorts just like in Tokyo. Dishonor knows no nationality or culture it seems - crooks hang out in the same circles. The greed factor was at work in New York just as it was in Tokyo. There was not enough metal on hand and yet these NYMEX crooks sold more contracts for metal than existed. In fact, the entire warehouse stocks are only 150 contracts! The NYMEX-approved warehouses are located in New York and Wilmington, Del.
From my point of view, I think that this could be a contract killing situation for most Palladium market participants. However, those who hang on and take delivery may be in an excellent situation. The Russians cannot and will not deliver the metal in sufficient quantity as I have stated for months now. The actual priced for the physical metal could far surpass the paper contract price. If only a few participants take delivery, the warehouse are bare. The Platinum metal supply situation is better, yet there are some supply problems here as well. As the industrial users of Palladium shift to Platinum and Rhodium, these prices are likely to come under increased pressure as well. Fortunately Platinum and Rhodium are a bit more available from sources outside of Russia such as South Africa, US, and Canada. The Palladium futures market was killed! There is now speculation that the Palladium market may simply be delisted. Can the same thing happen in other commodities? Obviously! I appears that manipulation in the Gold and Silver markets is an open secret. The CFTC has no compelling interest in performing their stated function of ensuring a free and fair commodities market. The moral of the story? Take possession of physical metal, invest in unhedged and profitable miners who have little or no debt, stay out of the rigged options and futures markets, and wait as the inevitable price increases occur. The death of the paper metals market is certain. The game is rigged.
- Black Blade
histres
(12/2/2000; 3:43:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 42660)
Spanish underwater patrimony in gold and silver
From 20 years I research in Spanish historical archives the lost of ships that transported shipments of gold and silver. Now I have prepared a study to value of as much as it consists this economic potential that Spain has "sleeping" and that anything is made to recover. Of the 870 ships that I have registered and that they got lost from 1492 up to 1823, the quantity of gold is made of some 900 metric tons and the silver 12.000 metric tons. These quantities are in currencies, ingots and jewels, being both first most. Separated these goods, it is necessary to consider the impressive value of goods like Chinese porcelains, precious stones, and the art objects. It is undoubtedly, an impressive economic patrimony, and, like I said, anything makes to recover. I am to disposition for people interested in discussing this topic.
Black Blade
(12/2/2000; 3:33:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 42659)
NYMEX, COMEX, CFTC, etc acronyms for criminal enterprises
Tedw, goldhunter, Randy, all:
My first eye-opening event with regard to the manipulation schemes that occur on a somewhat regular basis at the COMEX was the silver fiasco involving the Hunt Brothers (Bunker and Herbert). Most of the silver bought by the Hunts was for prices under $10/oz. And silver subsequently rose to about $52/oz. The Comex and the CFTC (Commodities Futures Trading Commission) changed the silver trading rules much as the NYMEX did recently with Palladium contracts. They simply raised margin requirements to 100% and at the same time they refused to allow the Hunt Brothers to take delivery of the physical metal. They went a step further by only allowing "sell orders" and not "buy orders." Of course before these rules changes took effect, several members of the COMEX and CFTC took on short positions. Interestingly none of these crooks went to prison, reinforcing the axiom that "those who own the gold, make the rules." To add insult to injury, not only did this theft by goldhunters friends at the COMEX and CFTC cause the bankruptcy of Bunker and Herbert Hunt, but also they blamed the Hunts for the collapse of the silver market.
That was then, and this is now. Has anything changed? Of course not! Recently these scumbags were back to their old tricks. The palladium market is a most recent example (though there are some choice example in the copper and petroleum futures markets as well). The rules were changed recently for the palladium futures market as well (as described in my essay "Death of a Market"). First the dishonorable Japanese on the TOCOM defaulted on the palladium futures market. They didn't even have the decency to commit Hari Kiri as their ancestors would have done after being caught stealing from innocent investors. The NYMEX did it one better; they changed the margin requirements (sound familiar?). They raised margin requirement well in excess of the spot price of the metal! Who ever heard of having to put up margin at two or three times the cash for the spot price of a commodity! The CFTC went along – in effect they played ball. If the IRS were to check into the financial well being of these crooks, we could see some eyebrow raising results. This type of chicanery is against everything the free market stands for. I for one won't touch this Mafia-run gambling casino with a 100-foot pole (even while wearing sterile surgical gloves). The officials at the NYMEX claim that they did it to ensure an orderly market – NO – they did it because they are self serving criminals that's all.
There is an obvious reason that Warren Buffett took possession of physical silver rather than contracts, George and Paul Soros own major positions in Apex Silver (SIL), and Bill Gates owns 10.3% of Pan American Silver (PAAS). I for one don't trust crooks like those at the COMEX and CFTC – because a leopard does not change its spots.
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