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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/21/2000 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Black Blade (08/21/00; 23:13:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 35287) A new theory on Global Warming. Draining the Earth' s radiator, hmmmmm........... goldenprills (tolerant @science on the oil being pumped out of the EARTH...affecting the insulation factors... ) ID#430233:Copyright © 2000 goldenprills/Kitco Inc. All rights reservedThe science which is also plain and simple logic is crystal clear, when a well is "stuck" the oil comes shooting out ar 140 degrees F. ( about the same temp as the radiator water in a car can get while cooling down the engine. ) that Oil MUST be cooling down something. Surely you don't think for a moment that the oil in itself is generating the heat? Oil, the coolant of the earth. Why do you think that the frequency of earthquakes and volcanoes has risen so dramatically over the last few years? Surely you are not going to suggest to me that it is because it was prophesized in the Bible???? If you don't believe that the draining of the oil between the earth's plates is causing this phenomenon then you best get some religion. Hope you got enough gold last week cause this week it's going to sizzle! Yeeeeehaaaa! Ulysses (08/21/00; 22:40:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 35286) Farfel re#35268 http://www.usagold.com Chase Manhattan will settle with those insurance cos.It's easy to do when one is part-owner of both the Federal Reserve and the Clinton Administration! schippi (08/21/00; 22:29:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 35285) POG five day forecast http://www.SelectSectors.com/pog.gif Moving Up ( must be programming error!) Trail Guide (08/21/00; 21:17:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35284) Back later Cavan Man, AL,,,, ALLJust saw all the good discussion. I'll join in tomorrow (smile). Trail Guide (08/21/00; 21:04:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 35283) Reply Hello SLF and Welcome!I say welcome because I think you are new here. But then again, I haven't read back through all the discussion that happened while away. As you know many of the posters on this forum present exceptional perspective. The kind that demands a comment or answer before moving along. Often one must be careful not to read them or risk being trapped here. (smile) Yours is the first I saw today, no doubt there are many others in the archives for later. So let's stop a while.Your post # 35259: --- I have been following your post's for a couple a years. I am trying to get a grasp on your current thoughts. As time goes on I am trying to see how current events will effect Gold/Dollar. It is my impression that you believe the Euro will be the currency that dethrones the Dollar as the Dollarhyper inflates. What are your latest thoughts about the weak Euro strong Dollar? -----SLF, I see this whole progression of events as an international chess game. It's a game that has been going on and evolving for many years. It's hard to discuss it in an investment format because far too many "hard money" traders continue to grasp each move on the board as a short term isolated happening. From this view, they play these events for quick profits. Mostly they lose big, because this particular game is unlike anything in the past and continues to evolve away from past historical precedent. On the other hand, there is a whole world of people out there that are making a killing for reasons they profess to fully comprehend. Yet truly, their wealth making is little more than a mistake of historic human proportions and they will have it all taken away for reasons fully incomprehensible!SO,,,, For us to see the whole board we must wade away from shore. Away from all the shallow water traders and into the deep blue. There we can feel the real current. Our dollar has had a usage period that corresponds with the society that interacts with it. Yes, just like people, currencies travel through seasons of life. Even gold currencies, in both metal and paper form have their "time of use". Search the history books and we find that all "OFFICIAL" moneys have at one time come and gone with the human society that created them. Fortunately, raw gold has the ability to be melted so it may flow into the next nations accounts as "their new money".This ebb and flow of all currencies can be described as their "timeline". We could argue and debate the finer points, but it seems that all currencies age mostly from their debt build up. In a very simple way of seeing it, once a currency must be forcefully manipulated to maintain it's value, it is entering the winter of it's years. At this stage the quality of manipulation and debt service become the foremost determinant of how markets value said money. Suddenly, the entire society values their currency wealth on the strength and power of the state's ability to control, not on the actual value of the money itself. Even today our dollar moves more on Mr. Greenspan's directions than from the horrendous value dilution it is receiving in the hands of the US treasury.This is where the dollar has drifted into dangerous waters these last ten or twenty years. If you have read most of Another's and my posts, it comes apparent that preparation has been underway for some time to engineer a new currency system. A system that will evolve into the dollars slot once it dies. Out here, in deep water, we can feel what the Euro makers are after. No one is looking for another gold standard, or even something that will match the long life and success of the dollar. We only know that the dollar's timeline is ending and a new young currency must replace it. No great ideals, nor can we save the world! But a reserve currency void is not acceptable. Now look back to shore and watch the world traders kick ankle deep water in each other's faces over the daily movements of Euros. From here, up to our necks in blue water, you ask "What the hell are they doing?" I'll tell you. They are trying to make $.50 on a million dollar play! Mostly because they are seeing the chess game one move at a time. (smile) Truly, their real wealth is in long term jeopardy.Our dollar has already entered a massive hyperinflation. It's timeline is ending and there will be no deflation to save it. The currency and all the multitude of derivative instruments that make up our money system have expanded rapidly over the last 20 years. Even at a super hyper rate for the last five years or so. We cannot read it because much of what we "Western" savers call paper wealth has really become money substitutes that's value is supported by the government. This paper wealth creation cannot reverse and is beginning to enter the "natural world" of real things. The best sign that the currency has entered it's last, final inflation is seen in the manipulated price gauges. Truly, this is only the beginning. Eventually we will see roaring price increases in everything, even as our government indicates level prices or perhaps a deflation in our price structure. This has to happen, because there is no saving a society's currency that has debted itself beyond any known example in man's past. In our time we will all see the Euro become very strong. You will read and hear this. But, Another and I have know for some time that it will be the dollar falling away that will make the illusion complete. I say this because all currencies are but an illusion of value. Eventually, either before of after the dollars transition, the illusion that makes currencies real will also undergo a change. That illusion / vision is the current world paper gold market. Often known as the dollar gold market. This marketplace will fail with the dollar's timeline and so too will it's use to value gold. In this time gold will not soar in value, rather all currencies will seek their true relationship to a "FreeGold" market. The US dollar will some day see $30,000+ for an ounce of gold. So too will the Euro price gold much higher ($$3,000 to 6,000???). It is here that our Euro has planed to play the game to the end. (more later)In your post:---- When Another talks about " slow oil" what does he mean? Is the current short term oil price increase the beginning of something larger and more sustaining?---------Yes, SLF! The transition from a world of dollars into something else is truly an evolution. There is no definite point where political wills draw the line. Once the Euro was born and "online" the dollar evolution began to speed up. Oil, out of a seemingly impossible position, suddenly began to rise in price. The paper gold markets were adjusted in what was the first step of their destruction, the Washington Agreement. Now, oil prices are set to evolve high enough to test not only the dollar's strength, but to force the physical gold market to separate from it's paper controlling world. Indeed, our paper gold markets will very much simulate the same manipulation of price gauges as the CPI. All in an official attempt to say that our dollar is not dying. In many ways, it will be the paper longs that abandon the gold markets (forcing prices ever lower) even as the physical price soars. Yes, the shorts may make a killing but the money they make will be worthless!!!!!!Your post:--- In reading your last post on the trail, you say "one Gold is coming my friends, one Gold"-----I think Another means that oil flow will slow until we have one physical gold price. Perhaps this is the end of Another's beginning odyssey of many years ago. It could be that the REAL GAME HAS BEGUN!My friend, the future of physical gold is to become a wealth holding of a lifetime. However, the world will not take lightly to such a recognition of private wealth gain. I hold physical gold in good proportion but am prepared to see it's current paper fictional value plunge to Another's very low dollar price. A paper price that will be a fictional as $1.00 gasoline during a dollar hyperinflation. This is the reason I hold a lifetime position in a few gold shares. Their value may plunge to zero before things change (an event the shallow water boys could not stand with). Even in the face of a soaring physical price, investors may chose to believe the paper markets over reality. Don't laugh, the believe the CPI today and continue to buy bonds????Your post:--- I know you don't have a crystal ball to see the future, but I am under the impression you are a person that has high level information about what is going on with Gold/oil/currencies.--------AS Another often put it, "I am but a simple person". Events will make this knowledge real, not the words of myself or Another. Indeed, only "time will prove all things".I hope to continue this, be back next day? , thanksTrail Guide Trail Guide (08/21/00; 20:59:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 35282) test test Al Fulchino (08/21/00; 20:36:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 35281) Boxman/All Everyone should go to the link Boxman posted and check out the Willow Creek story. It is a subject I have touched on several times in the last year and a half. Most people want to bury their heads in the sand when they see things like this. It is easier. And that is the point. It is a suicide for the gutless. Cavan Man (08/21/00; 20:14:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 35280) Boxman What a hoot!!!! The writer must be Mark Helprin's evil twin. Good luck and good selling....CM Boxman (08/21/00; 19:50:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 35279) OT/ If you need a chuckle, and dislike Clinton, you'll love this. http://etherzone.com/ I found this to be hilarious, and with this being the mother of all Mondays, I needed something to cheer me up. I only wish that I had written it.If you are a fan of the clown, and I have offended you, well, tough noobers.Mike Cavan Man (08/21/00; 19:49:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 35278) Trail Guide What are some of the impediments to moving ahead with your "freegold" scenario? Can a list be compiled so that we can check off as we move ahead? I read your most recent post. I see and understand the logic of your presentation. I do not need to be convinced anew about this "western" mind set issue. Pardon me but I work in the shallow world of sales where each day progress is charted and progress is expected so I am accustomed to moving ahead oftentimes with great alacrity. In your view, what progress towards "freegold" has been made in the last twelve months? Yes, these things take time I suppose and timing is unknowable. Although I am a very convinced PM long term enthusiast, I see little if any change in the past year relative to your representations. Don't misunderstand. I am asking a legitimate question(s) posed earlier by another poster (sorry the name escapes me at the moment). Again, welcome back from your hiatus. Kind regards....CM (and thank you) Al Fulchino (08/21/00; 19:16:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 35277) Trail Guide Could you flesh out in further detail the last two sentences of the paragraph from your most recent posting. And one other point, if the long and shorts *already* scramble to settle, why isn't there more price volatility. Thank you."A fraud? To say that the shorts have sold a metal contract that they cannot deliver against,,,,,, holds no more meaning than the fact that the longs cannot pay for metal they have contracted to take! As proof, watch as both sides always scramble to close out the majority of contracts for cash before they must settle. Betting on the price movements of something is not buying real wealth and running from a contract should prove it in the open to changing "Western Thinkers". Waiting for the shorts to be had, in order for your paper investments to gain value may be a long wait indeed. If this continues further, and now with the blessing of Europe, it's the paper longs that may be had as the shorts are let off the hook as the market is destroyed!" Cavan Man (08/21/00; 18:27:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 35276) Canuck C'est magnifique mon ami! You're all right for a Canadian! Great post. BTW, Last time gold was at $400 NEM waas at $60. NEM, GOLD, HGMCY those are the best IMHO. All that talk about squid over there makes me queasy. Canuck (08/21/00; 18:06:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 35275) @ Aristotle re: Hamilton Ari,I think what I find most interesting about this forum and with 'goldhearts' in general is the 'angle' to which they research and come to the conclusion that gold is a good investment.I think a 'physical gold advocate' (coined by FOA about 6-8 months ago) is probably the closest to a literal goldbug.Stereotypically speaking he/she absolutely detests the paper arena and is not keen on mining stock. The 'yellow metal' is the lowest common denominator representing true value of which no one can claim liability, the money of money and god save the queen. There are people on this forum that openly advocate physical and only physical. Their comments reflect this position sometimes very obviously and sometimes only through a following of said poster, but their bias is visible.The gold investor may have physical gold in their posession but they also follow gold mining stock. The comments presented include postulations of hedgers, mergers, indices such as the XAU, etc, etc. They own gold stock, perhaps some silver and even PM mutual funds. Occasionally they speak of more exotic precious metals such as platinum and palladium. Even less often, they talk of and I dare say partake in the futures and options game (and a game I tend to agree with you).The gold speculator probably doesn't have physical or little of it but wheels and deals in stock and options referencing chart after chart and analyzing gobs of information as to the next 'dip'.Now, I have labeled these creatures which is not important and even less relevant. I have defined them which is not practical nor relevant. This is my point.We have got ourselves an enormously mixed bag of people looking to 'profit', 'maintain wealth', 'insure themselves'or whatever they are trying to accomplish with gold as their vehicle. The combinations of the above people with their various reasons for 'success' is infinity squared.Their reasoning and thusly their 'angle' presented by their discussions on this forum consequently is derived from their investment strategy and this maze of brainthrust changing constantly.FOA is a physical guy but he owns GOLD (NASDAQ). I don't believe he has ever mentioned proportions or dollar amounts(if gold could be referenced to a dollar) and he has often commented (cautioned) on hedged miners.Farfel, and I'm glad to see his latest post, wants to personally throttle the execs. at Barrick. (This is a thought of which I hope I'm wrong).Stranger is a NEM man. (Good luck to you man!)And Canuck; well I'm on the fence 50-50 physical and (hopefully) unhedged mining stock. No futures or options because I don't understand them.Et vous mon homme? I bet there is not a dime of paper.Physical all the way.And there is everyone in between and around the golden mulberry bush. So what does this mean? Nothing. From my 'angle' Hamilton's view of the manipulative reconstruction of the XAU is parallel to mine. I am in the mining stock game, as many others are, so the XAU is an indicator, albeit seemingly an indicator of hedged companies. With GOLD out it becomes more indicative of a hedged indice NOT leveraged to an increase in the price of gold. This will present an image of a stagnant and/or decreasing value of mining stock as gold climbs. It has been debated many times over whether gold leads stock or vice-versa, (my view is that gold leads stock but that is not important) but now the XAU will not follow, lead or in my opinion be associated with the price of gold. I hope that someone can find out the answer to this riddle. Let's take GE or GM out of the DOW (I am guessing/assuming that GE and GM are in the DOW) and insert a company that refines maple syrup in Ethopia so we have an accurate reflection of the economy of the U.S.A.From your 'angle' Hamilton's view(s) are not relevent because you are 'shorting' the dollar; at least that is what you once told me. I understand your position; hedged, unhedged, cabals, manipulations, XAU, etc., have less bearing on you to meeting your objective(s).At the end of the day, as long as we meet with smiles it matters very little how we got there, yes?The road of gold....get on one. Canuck. Peter Asher (08/21/00; 17:56:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 35274) @ Cavenman -- Quarters Gandalf and I were pondering this yesterday, as to what is the motive of the QSG with these. The answer would seem to be "Little Float" it keeps some of the issued dollars from seeking goods, but, if 50 million people save 50 State quarters, that only freezes up $625 million. Not exactly world-class dollar float, but, every little bit counts I guess. Peter Asher (08/21/00; 17:55:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 35273) @ Cavenman -- Quarters Gandald and I were pondering this yesterday, as to what is the motive of the QSG with these. The answer would seem to be "Little Float" it keeps some of the issued dollars from seeking goods, but, if 50 million people save 50 State quarters, that only freezes up $625 million. Not exactly world-class dollar float, but, every little bit counts I guess. Cavan Man (08/21/00; 17:01:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 35272) Aristotle I believe I am in perfect agreement with you; i.e., until you begin to collect quarters from the fifity states. At that point Sir Knight, we shall part ways I assure you. :>) Cavan Man (08/21/00; 16:59:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 35271) beesting Ah the Celts! I dearly love the pipes. Thanks...(County Cavan Man) wolavka (08/21/00; 15:49:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 35270) When they know you know : there done. Tight range .range 278 low 282 high282 first break out with 284 286 289 to follow. stops below 277 but who cares, oil will grease the shorts.not for investment advice. beesting (08/21/00; 15:47:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 35269) Response to Sir Cavan Man # 35218....Concerning Modern Celtic Games and Gold. Sir Cavan Mans question:Why do they display Gold?(At the Highland Games)Answer:The games are a renewal of the old and ancient Celtic/Scottish Games, which Scottish history says originated before the Olympic Games. Modern games are a combination of athletic events,dance contests,bagpipe playing contests(Beautiful music to many, noise to others), Parades,family get togethers, and Flea Market, and more all in one.The displayed Gold can range from cheap trinkets to authentic coins used in every day trade many years ago, some is for sale some is for display only.Watched a demonstration of how a woman dresses in the old Highland style. When the woman narrator got to the part showing where the woman kept her "Pouch"(Purse) she was very clear on explaining this was where woman kept "Gold" coins. I got the distinct impression coins "Only"(no paper) was used in every day trade in olden times. You see the value of, copper coins,bronze coins,nickel coins,Silver coins, and Gold coins in relation to each other would be of sufficient value to cover the purchase of an animal, land, or an apple and could be carried or hidden quite easily in time of emergency. A person who borrowed was considered weak and no better than a beggar, the lowest form of life on the human chain at that time.Well Sir Cavan Man, I hope this answers your question, one other foot note which may be of interest. We bought a book:"WEARING THE TARTAN"From the book explaining proper dress men or woman:Undies: To wear or not to wear is your Scottish privilege.Those in the Know are Buying Gold....beesting. Farfel (08/21/00; 15:41:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 35268) Gold Investors Need to Take Lessons from Insurance Industry As somebody who keeps my hands in the entertainment business (having spent some 15 years either producing, directing, or writing low budget feature films), I could not help but notice the latest major legal skirmish emanating from Hollywood (see VARIETY, Aug. 14, 2000).Specifically, a variety of major insurance companies are suing bullion bank Chase Manhattan, claiming that Chase MISREPRESENTED the risks involved to those companies insuring a variety of Chase Manhattan loans provided for several feature films.The insurers are pursuing claims against Chase involving FRAUD, NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION, and NON DISCLOSURE.Essentially, the insurers provided collateral for the Chase film loans by insuring the films' (future) boxoffice performance, thus insuring Chase against any loan defaults as a result of boxoffice losses. The insurance companies thus created what is now known as "insurance-backed film financing." Various industry pundits believe that the odds favor the insurance companies will win their lawsuits against Chase.What does this have to do with GOLD?Well, essentially, MOST gold investors poured investment monies into gold mining producers this past decade WITHOUT awareness of the intricate machinations behind the nefarious gold carry trade, designed specifically to suppress the price of gold to the benefit of bond investments. Moreover, MOST gold investors poured investment monies into gold mining producers WITHOUT knowledge of the degree to which these companies had hedged themselves via excessive forward sales, written call positions, andother esoteric derivative strategies.Unfortunately, so far, gold investors have reacted like a collection of sad pathetic victims who would much rather trust in God or luck or fate to redress the crimes perpetrated against them.Although GATA was created initially to provide some kind of legal remedy for gold investors, the sad fact is that GATA has NOT fired a single legal missle, instead acting as some kind of group therapy/cheerleader organization.Although GATA certainly has provided some invaluable information about gold manipulation to the marketplace, Washington, peripheral media, etc., the fact is this: until a legal shot is fired, NOTHING will be done to compensate gold investors who were duped by both the gold mining managements and the bullion banks.Gold investors should take lessons from the insurance companies who are not afraid to battle the Goliaths like Chase. Feeling duped, the insurance companies are going after Chase with all guns blazing.Why can't gold investors do the same?ThanksF* Christopher (08/21/00; 14:48:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 35267) Aristotle msg#35262 to Cavan Man I believe that you are correct sir, and that you and CM are argueing the same point. In Mr. Hamilton's article he theorizes that adding Phelps Dodge is a subterfuge propagated by the Gold Shorts to mislead..His words"It really is a clever stratagem by the gold shorting crowd, to break the most common instrument used to measure gold share performance in order to attempt to retard future investment demand as the physical metal itself begins to rise."(exerpt from Mr. Hamilton's article Gold Shorts Doomed-Part 2 on Golden Eagle Forum)Christopher Cavan Man (08/21/00; 14:17:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 35266) Al Fulchino Nah but thanks anyway. These last eight years have taught me an important lesson; all that surrounds us truly is surreal. With all due respect, I don't worry about stuff like that anymore. On occasion, I inveigh against it but not often as it "angries up the blood" as Satchel Paige cautioned. I give to Caesar what is his and I give to God my heart and soul and those of my family. Take care. Cavan Man (08/21/00; 14:12:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 35265) SLF Excellent questions sir. USAGOLD (08/21/00; 13:39:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 35264) Al. . . Bittersweet it is. Best wishes for a successful year to your boys and to all the meisters' kids headed off to their various educational institutions. Autumn renewal time for the young and young at heart. Al Fulchino (08/21/00; 13:00:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 35263) Cavan Man (08/21/00; 10:40:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35258) You are righter than right! <smile> In fact there is a book/pamphlet on "psychopolotics", and in it there is a minor discussion somewhere in it regarding an income tax and getting it instituted in the U.S. of A., way back when. Purpose being, monetary and social manipulations. If you are interested, I can chase down a link for you. Ciao. Aristotle (08/21/00; 12:44:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 35262) Hello again, Canuck -- more on the "art" of suppressing Gold You asked me, "I guess (more specifically) what I'm asking is do you agree with Mr. Hamilton that the latest XAU development is another "gold suppression scheme". Having the XAU appear "lacklustre" with Goldfields out and a large copper miner may cause the XAU to be non-responsive to a rising POG."Ok, dear friend, here is where I need to lean my weary self on you for a while. Please elaborate on your thoughts in order to help me see this your way so that I can think it through from your perspective. Then I will be better positioned to talk about one side of the issue against the other. Right now, I see the mining stock prices and the XAU as a complete NON-issue, but clearly you and Mr. Hamilton and others are inclined to see it otherwise.What connection are you making between the share value of various mining companies and the price of Gold? As I mentioned previously, it is only the price of Gold that has a significant impact on the peace of mind of the commercial bullion banks and their customers. Greatly rising prices would make it hard for borrowers to service their debts, and would encourage depositors to cautiously withdraw their metal before their fellow depositors do. This threatens the solvency of the bank--they want the Gold to keep flowing, and low prices are the right medicine.With regard to the mining share prices, I don't see the connection, or more to the point, I don't see the potential problem that a rising XAU would create. As I mentioned previously, I actually think it would be helpful to the bullion banks--a source of equity financing to keep mining even under these low Gold prices which are beneficial to the bullion banks. A real world example: Did we not see during this latest stock investment mania that the high tech stocks were bid through the roof, even as the prices of their product, such as computers, was falling through the floor?If anything, it could be argued that the bullion banks would want the XAU to be reworked so that the mining companies' stock would still appear to be an attractive investment under an anticipated continuation of a paper Gold price collapse. Hence, they would dump the unhedged mines from the index, and include other mines that derived the lion's share of their business in something other than Gold, such as copper.At your request, I'll attempt a clearer commentary on the importance of the futures markets in my next post.Gold. Going fast at a world near you (did you see the latest export figures?). ---Aristotle wolavka (08/21/00; 12:24:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 35261) would like dec to close @ 281 + Bobbo (08/21/00; 12:15:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 35260) XAU looking up....UP If the pattern of POG buying into the close continues, as we saw last week, then XAU should respond with a nice pop to the upside into the close today. Techs continue to improve (30 min XAU stochs now on a buy) and any POG uptick from current levels will trigger the 60 min XAU stochs to flash buy. Next resistance 52.40 area, then the small gap from Friday's open (around 52.80 area) and then back to test 55...We need POG cooperation...:)GOT GOLD.....GO SLF (08/21/00; 11:39:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 35259) Question for FOA / Trail Guide Trail Guide / FOA, I have been following your post's for a couple a years. I am trying to get a grasp on your current thoughts. As time goes on I am trying to see how current events will effect Gold/Dollar. It is my impression that you believe the Euro will be the currency that dethrones the Dollar as the Dollar hyperinflates. What are your lattest thoughts about the weak Euro strong Dollar? When Another talks about " slow oil" what does he mean? Is the current short term oil price increase the beginning of something larger and more sustaining? In reading your last post on the trail, you say "one Gold is coming my friends, one Gold" Do you have any ideas as to the time frame we are talking about? Do you know of any events in the near future(12 month period) that will or could cause the crisis that will propel this "one Gold" mind set into existance? I am a holder of physical Gold. I have been ridiculed by friends and relatives for holding Gold rather than more convetional investments that pay an interest. It is hard to stay the course. Sometimes I wonder if I am setting myself up for a financial disaster. As I watch Gold go down in value, I keep thinking that the lower it goes the closer we are to a total melt down of the paper gold markets as well as currencies across the globe. Can these controllers of the paper markets continue for very much longer? I have been hearing for over a decade now that the dollar is going to go into a hyperinflation. Can this go on for another decade? I know you don't have a crystal ball to see the future, but I am under the impression you are a person that has high level information about what is going on with Gold/oil/currencies. I am under the impression that the people(central banks?) that are in control of the Dollar are waging a war against gold to keep the Dollar/currencies strong. Do you think they themselfs believe they can keep the dollar strong forever or do they have some sort of a plan for a smooth or abrupt transition. What might that be if if there is a plan out there? I may be asking questions of you that knowone has the answers, but I thought I would ask anyway. Thank you for your thoughts over the years, you have given me a whole new perspective on money. Thank you to all the forum participants for the wealth of information you give. I hope things will turn in our favor soon. I hope that when and if gold goes to the moon we will be in a world that is worth profiting from it. SLF Cavan Man (08/21/00; 10:40:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35258) Al Fulchino Al-Last sentence in paragraph two.....you could be talking of the US and dollar as well. Al Fulchino (08/21/00; 10:31:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 35257) USAGold USAGOLD wrote:"The euro is a currency without a country; the ECB a central bank controlled by two countries -- France and Germany -- with only a small regard from the smaller constituents. "In the end we will see if the forces that have pushed the euro really understood the good that one currency could do. Or we will understand if it was a malevolent effort. I personally would feel a lot better if the governments, collectively instituting the euro had better track records than they do and have had. As of now, I see a better than even odds of using the currency to force member states to adjust their moral and political ideas towards the goals of a few versus the collective well being of free spirted individual.Also, wish your son well as he heads back to school. My two boys leave this upcoming Sunday. It a bittersweet event for all. Cavan Man (08/21/00; 09:34:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 35256) TOPAZ: Irish Infrastructure My observation was that they are refurbuishing old while adding new so it is kind of a mixed bag. Refurbishing the old is/was a huge task I'm sure. In adding the "new", they are not of a mind to turn the country into concrete and glass. I am not an expert by any means. However, I can tell you that I hardly recognized the country I saw recently from my last vist of only nine years ago. Also, I think the issue of inflation in the Irish economy is more complex than just blaming the Euro as the English writer did. SteveH (08/21/00; 09:31:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 35255) Natural gas blowing upwards NG is hitting all time recent highs today. 4.695 currently. Oil nearing $33/bbl. Bobbo (08/21/00; 08:52:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 35254) Divergence? What are we to make of today's divergence between the XAU (down 2.30) and POG(down only .28)? There are three possible scenarios unfolding:1. If indicative of a true divergence (yet to be proven), than that would be a very bullish portent indeed.2. If related to yesterday's (Friday's) stox expiry, than it could be bearish or bullish and will probably be a #3 scenario unfolding.3. It may be indicative of nothing at all and the divergence will narrow by the end of the day.Albeit, checking the techs, it seems that the #1 scenario is very possible. Using stochs as a proxy we have: XAU 30 min stochs are bullish and oversold, 60 min stochs are bearish but oversold and the daily stochs are in bullish mode. XAU should hold 50.25 area and more bullish scenario if it holds 51.10 area support.The POG 30 min and 60 min stochs are bearish, but approaching oversold levels. The daily stokes remain bullish with a bullish macd in place. POG support at 279 area and more important support at 276.50 area re: Dec.It appears that we may experience a little more weakness, but the oversold conditions should kick in to save the week. Very bullish are the put to call ratio for XAU and thespec shorts on au contracts. USAGOLD (08/21/00; 08:37:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 35253) Various Quick Notes: CM: The question is one of self determination and sovereignty, not relative currency values. I do not criticize the existence of the euro per se, but the existence of the euro as a hegemonic instrument weilded against the individual states. In the abscence of a constitution and the ability to redress grievances quickly either in a legislature or through the courts, the Irish gave up their monetary freedom -- a key instrumentality to individual and national sovereignty. The euro is a currency without a country; the ECB a central bank controlled by two countries -- France and Germany -- with only a small regard from the smaller constituents. Ari: One wonders if California and Alaska given the opportunity would vote to join the Union today. One recalls that a vote by the people of California was recently overturned by a federal judge. And I know enough Alaskans to understand the strain of independence represented there. I would not tilt the odds overwhelmingly in favor of a postive vote were it to take place. Also, please note above post to CM. When California and Alaska came into the Union, they did so as full members enjoying the benefits of a constitutional republic. Ireland has given up its monetary freedom without the coincident gain in political and economic sanctions granted under a constitution. A big difference. wolavka (08/21/00; 08:36:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 35252) support resistance dec gold. support279278resistance @ 284 , 286 289 298expect short covering into close with fmoc coming.Shorts need to be punished. opinion only, not for investment. USAGOLD (08/21/00; 08:24:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 35251) Gold Off in Thin Summertime Trading http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html DAILY COMMENTARY (8/21/00) www.USAGOLD.com . . . New York gold was off this morning in thin summertime conditions. Both the Asian and London markets were quiet as well. Reuters quotes one trader as follows: "Gold looks comfortable between $275 and $278. The metal is finding good support on the downside... volumes remain thin for now due to the summer, so that currency moves often appear to be the dominant factor in the market. Gold has staged something of a rally in the past week or so based on strong worldwide physical demand, rising inflation concerns both here and abroad, accelerating oil prices and speculation that the large short position now on the Comex books represents pent-up buying pressure in the future. Chile's announcement that it had sold roughly 35 tons of gold in June had little impact on trading, according to the Standard Bank report. This week we have the FOMC meeting on Tuesday and then a spate of reports on Thursday and Friday which are likely to reinforce the growing inflationary psychology in the financial markets including Durable Goods on Thursday and GDP and Personal Income on Friday. That's it for today, fellow goldmeisters. See you here tomorrow. If you are looking for a source of news, commentary and analysis on gold and all that affects it, we invite you try a free trial subscription to our widely read monthly newsletter, News & Views: Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious Metals. We offer solid commentary in a rapid fire, no-nonsense, bullet format designed for busy people who want gold related news and opinion without the unnecessary fluff. Please call Marie at 1-800-869-5115 or click here to request News & Views as well as our helpful introductory information packet for gold investors. We invite you to stay tuned to the gold market through our DISCUSSION FORUM featuring round the clock gold news & commentary from the public. PLEASE REMEMBER: It is your purchase of gold from Centennial Precious Metals that nourishes these pages. Call us at 1-800-869-5115 for prices and to have your questions answered.IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE AN INFORMATION PACKET ON GOLD OWNERSHIP, PLEASE GO TO THE LINK AT THE TOP OF THIS POST. SHIFTY (08/21/00; 08:14:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 35250) oil Oil on it's way to $33.00$hifty wolavka (08/21/00; 08:11:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 35249) comex 279, in dec, that's it, why don't you guys wake up and smell what you're shovel 'in. CoBra(too) (08/21/00; 06:34:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 35248) "The EU wouldn't meet the critera of joining the EU"! A bit off topic! This provocative thought was voiced by Erhard Busek, Austria's former conservative Vice Chancellor and today'sgovernment envoy to further the EU-expansion. In his words if the EU would have to join the EU today, they would fail because of their own democracy criteria - well, er- deficit! The preperation of the EU Intstitutions in Brussels to the planned expansion from 15 to say, 27 or more members, begs the question how to cope with this dilemma, as the process of determination is totally unfit even in today's EU 15. But expand, we must. Otherwise Europe will never become a serious contender to global competitiveness nor does he see an alternative to the long term stability in the region. The threat of economical differences between the candidates (as well as between today's members) will have to be addressed as a priority. And the EU must address the prime question of central and regional decision(-making), the question of unity in diversity. Phew, quite a lot of unanswered questions, which in the past have made me sceptical towards the development of an euro based currency system. Find u some more unity in diversity! Or get you some more gold - best cb2 wolavka (08/21/00; 06:25:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 35247) Western eastern views of gold Good stuff by FOA.Again watch China.dec gold support at 278, they may test it today, breakout again 284 Canuck (08/21/00; 05:08:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 35246) @ Ari From A.H. again,"The economics of the gold market, coupled with the increasing evidence that the gold suppression scheme is reaching vital sink or swim time, indicates all hope is virtually lost for those who foolishly decided to declare war on a critically important global free market."---------------------------------------------------------I guess (more specifically) what I'm asking is do you agreewith Mr. Hamilton that the latest XAU development is another"gold suppression scheme". Having the XAU appear "lacklustre" with Goldfields out and a large copper miner may cause the XAU to be non-responsive to a rising POG.You make mention again of the futures markets and I notice FOA has commented in the 'Trail' re: palladium futures.I am sorry, I feel as dumb as a stump; I am not 'getting' this paper, betting on the POG side of the equation. If the 'futures' were an inaccurate form of price discovery would the 'premium' on physical not reflect that?If you have the time, or anyone for that matter, could you explain the relationship between physical and the 'futures bet price of POG'. Please try me one last time in the form as a complete novice (because I am). I'm sure lurkers and others new to this game are not in understanding; in fact I'm sure of it because the futures and options players still play the game, yes?Thanks a bunch,Canuck. 714 (08/21/00; 04:55:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 35245) Topaz re: Erdman I too saw that article. What cracks me up is Erdman's statement towards the end:"The business cycle may not be dead. But there are increasing grounds to believe that the boom-and-bust phenomenon is."Wow, I guess an 11,000 DOW is NOT a boom. Could have fooled me... Topaz (08/21/00; 01:29:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35244) Cavan Man Hi C-Man,If opportunity allows, can you give your impression of Ireland re: the physical nature of development going on there vis-a-vis the US?ie: are they more content to accept refurbishment and retention of existing infrastructure or alternately prone to adopting a "use by date" attitude in relation to Buildings/roads etc?TIA Topaz (08/21/00; 01:06:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 35243) ...from the far side...via Strat http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/erdman.htx?source=htx/http2_mw The above article by Mr Erdman epitomises the "this time it's different" mentality and espouses the all the virtues of the current economic "Miracle" without addressing the many potential pitfalls.Curious to note the last paragraph- indexed funds and NOT Gold. hmmmmm! Topaz (08/21/00; 00:23:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 35242) FOA You, Sir indeed do us/me a service in offering your thoughts here- having you back is akin to sliding into that favourite pair of slippers, ahhh!!Above all it makes a bloke feel like just running out there and purchasing another couple of oz's of the yella- damn it, I will!----tomorrow!While your recent Trail update was up there with the best, you alluded to the "strange" offering from Another. (I assume you refer to the post of a week or so ago)If you will, can you perhaps enlighten us as to why this post appeared strange to you and offer perhaps an explanation? Parsifal (08/21/00; 00:03:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 35241) The Invisible Hand: Shifty Shifty said this:***Contrary to IRS opinion and the propaganda espoused by the insiders, the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was never ratified. Bill Benson and Red Beckmen, two dedicated American patriots, went to 48 states legislatures and discovered something very shocking: Only three states voted for the ratification of the 16th Amendment! Their exhaustively researched document, The Law That Never Was, Volumes 1&2, demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified. It was simply declared to be in effect by President Taft's Secretary of State, Philander Knox. ***You have my attention. I think I am negatively amused as a natural reaction in defense of my imagined dignity. Some information on the book, The Law That Never Was, can be found at:http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/Book.htmI have not read it. I just searched for it on the Internet. I do not expect that its text is freely available.So, if I consider these things as true:* 1933 gold confiscation, hand over your gold to the U.S. govt or be prosecuted as a criminal* 1913 income tax imposed on U.S. citizens, even though the 16th amendment was never properly ratified* 1913 creation of the Fed (suspicious circumstances)* 1930s (and 1940s?) western banks finance Hitler's war machine (Chase Manhattan?, if not Chase, then who?)well, these things are not in accordance with the "land of the free and the home of the brave" world-savior images generally perpetuated in U.S. doctrination camps (schools?).Looks like some of us have been a little bit brainwashed.Parsifal ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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