USAGOLD Gold Discussion Forum Archive

USAGOLD Menu BAR

Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...

(Discussion Forum Hall of Fame)

(The Gold Trail)

("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)

The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

FORUM ARCHIVES

Select date of the archive you wish to view

Month Day Year
Archives date back to September 22, 1998

WELCOME TO THE ARCHIVES!

(View Today's Discussion) (View Previous Day's Discussion) (View Next Day's Discussion)

ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 12/21/1999
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

View Yesterday's Discussion.

Peter Asher (12/21/99; 23:17:07MDT - Msg ID:21490)
Say Who??
http://news.excite.com/news/r/991222/01/y2k-countdown

LONDON, Dec 22 (Reuters) -
Just when you thought the
millennium computer bug had
been swatted into submission,

FEATURE-If NASA frets about Y2K, who can be
sure?

SHIFTY (12/21/99; 23:13:00MDT - Msg ID:21489)
kitco/24hr gold spot
I was shocked to see gold drop $2.00 a 1/2 hr or so ago. Was feeling bumed out and then it shot back up $2.00.
Things look interesting.
Gold up up and away!!!

Skip (12/21/99; 22:41:20MDT - Msg ID:21488)
***MY TOP FIVE EVENTS for GOLD MARKET 1999***
***MY TOP FIVE EVENTS for GOLD MARKET 1999***

My top five choices are shown in chronological order...

1. THE OFFICIAL ORGANIZATION OF G.A.T.A. (1/99):
Here are their own words as posted on their website: "The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee was organized in January 1999 as a Delaware corporation to advocate and undertake litigation against illegal collusion to control the price and supply of certain financial securities, particularly securities involving gold...." and: "GATA also seeks to disclose and publicize the huge speculative short positions in gold taken by financial institutions and bullion banks." The influence of G.A.T.A. becomes obvious when we compare the widespread skepticism in early 1999 with their influence throughout the entire gold world today, from the mining industry to the investment sector and everyone inbetween. Only history will reveal the full extent of GATA's influence on gold throughout the world, as it is still being written; but I believe that the formation of G.A.T.A. might prove to be one of the five major gold events of the 20th Century.

2. THE B.O.E. ANNOUNCEMENT OF AUCTIONS OF ITS GOLD (5/99):
It is a statement of fact that, just as gold started a significant rally upwards, the announcement of the Bank of England killed that rally in one day and sent the price of gold spiralling down to lows not seen in over two decades. Not only is this event significant because of the negative impact on the price of gold (and gold stocks), it is ALSO significant in that this event resulted in the efforts and claims of G.A.T.A. gaining credibility throughout all aspects of the entire gold industry. This one event was the single most convincing piece of evidence of manipulation on the price of gold as of that date, changing the consciousness of many important people throughout the world. While other subsequent events add more "ammunition" to the allegations of gold manipulation, many of these subsequent events are more carefully examined BECAUSE of the B.O.E. announcement and its effect on the gold industry.

3. THE WASHINGTON AGREEMENT (9/99):
In spite of ongoing efforts to drive the price of gold back down in recent weeks, NO single event is more responsible as a signal of the end of the gold bear than the Washington Agreement. The first few days of the first "big breakout" (as accurately termed on this website) demonstrated in a dramatic way just how rapidly gold can rocket upwards once the lid on the P.O.G. is removed. This agreement removes the greatest barrier to the golden bull, and will soon send the gold bear into hibernation.

4. G.A.T.A. PLACES AN AD IN "ROLL CALL" AND ENCOURAGES GOLD BULLS TO WRITE CONGRESS (12/99):
Choice #4 was difficult, in that any of several events could just as easily be chosen. Nonetheless, getting the attention of United States lawmakers should have growing and lasting effects as the manipulation on the P.O.G. gets exposed. As more evidence surfaces in future months, many can look back and say, "GATA told you so!" Again, only time will tell how quickly these events unfold; but I believe that GATA's ad COMBINED with their request that we write our senators and representatives will prove to be another significant turning point in the war against gold. (GATA did NOT pay me to post this!)

5. CHINA ALLOWS ITS CITIZENS TO BUY GOLD (12/99):
As stated by TownCrier's Golden View from the Tower: "First domestically, then internationally, the opening of China as a free participant in the global gold market is seen by many as a most significant development. Brace yourselves, and stay tuned..." While some might argue that the gold can only be bought and sold within China's borders, there is one obvious missing ingredient in that argument: WHAT HAPPENS when China's citizens buy most of the available gold? In my opinion, the answer is quite obvious. The government will quite probably acquire more gold to sell to its citizens...and that will eventually mean that the world's most populated country will acquire gold from the rest of the world! Well, my fellow goldmeisters, the number of worldwide potential buyers of gold has JUST INCREASED to at LEAST 120% of last month's figure! That is a very significant increase, which should result in gold going up to at least 120% of today's price...even if NONE of points 1 through 4 had ever happened.

RUNNERS UP:
Because Choice #4 was difficult, here are my "runner up" selections:
a. October runup reveals dangers of hedging by gold mining companies. (The FAXES during Denver conference, and Arthur Hailey's public reaction to ABX represent the tip of the iceberg.)
b. Martin Armstrong, well-known gold bear, gets arrested...and is alleged to have purchased $16 million worth of gold. (How many other professed gold bears are buying gold in secret?)
c. Kuwait comes to the rescue of the shorts by loaning 79 tons of gold to B.O.E., stopping October's gold rally in its tracks. (This provides more evidence to support GATA's claims of price manipulation!)
d. September auction is way over-subscribed. (The gold rally started even before the Washington Agreement.)

Submitted by:
-- Skip

pdeep (12/21/99; 22:32:17MDT - Msg ID:21487)
Gold Price Spread
For TA's out there, it would be interesting to look at the spread between spot gold (say London price fix in $) vs. $ cost of 1 oz of pure gold at retail (I'm partial to Maples) My impression is that the spread has continued to widen.

Black Blade (12/21/99; 21:49:46MDT - Msg ID:21486)
Commentary from worldnetdaily
Martial law 2000

I'm often asked if I think it's possible we might face martial law in 2000 as a result of Y2K. Yes, I definitely think it is a possibility. A lot of it depended on how much contingency planning was done before the end of the year.
It has been my contention from the beginning that, to best prepare, our citizens needed:

full and accurate disclosure about Y2K, including the fact that we are not going to get all of our mission-critical systems fixed on time;

information regarding the fact that there will be disruptions in some of our critical infrastructure; and

encouragement to make reasonable contingency plans in their personal lives and communities;

If these thing had been done, the technological failures, whether they be small or great, would help prevent making the situation worse by adding to it the very real risk of public panic. In fact, this is precisely what I told Congress last fall.
Unfortunately, the Clinton administration has done the exact opposite of what I suggested.

Instead of giving us full disclosure, they have overstated progress on numerous occasions and launched an aggressive campaign of disinformation.

Instead of warning us about the inevitability of disruptions, they have assured us that Y2K will be no worse than a "bump in the road," nothing more than the equivalent of a three-day winter storm.

Instead of encouraging contingency plans, they have repeatedly characterized people like me as doomsayers and people who prepare as survivalist wackos.

Their job has been relatively easy, given the fact that most Americans are addicted to prosperity and do not want to contemplate the notion that their precious little lives might be disrupted. The media have also been a willing accomplice with their never-ending attempts to link Y2K with various conspiracy theories, end-time prophecies, and financial scams. When you brought up Y2K a few months ago, people seemed to be genuinely concerned; now they merely chuckle. It is no longer fashionable to take it seriously.
As a result, they are going to end up contributing to the very thing they have said that they are trying to prevent: panic. From my perspective, the only thing that will prevent this now is an abrupt change of policy. If this doesn't happen, then martial law might later appear to be the lesser of two evils and the only reasonable choice when panic erupts. I just hope this wasn't the strategy all along.

Michael S. Hyatt

TownCrier (12/21/99; 21:25:05MDT - Msg ID:21485)
A holiday gift to yourself
http://www.gold.org/Inve/Brochure/Contents.htm
If you are competent enough to download and read .pdf files, click the link above (click it anyway!) to be taken to a page of the World Gold Council announcing their new brochure on gold investment.

From this page there is a link at which you can download the brochure if you'd like. It's crammed full of wonderful pictures of gold coins and bars, and is loaded with troy-tonnes (heh heh) of information, history, and guidance.

And remember, if you should choose to pick up some gold for the well being of you and your family, please consider doing business with MK at Centennial Precious Metals. Check your phone's yellowpages for the number (if you're located in a big city in the western half of the U.S.) or else track down the toll free 800 number from these web pages. I know MK would love to help you...call or e-mail...your choice.

Chris Powell (12/21/99; 21:19:01MDT - Msg ID:21484)
Accept the gift of cheap gold, Peabody advises
http://www.egroups.com/group/gata/326.html?
He was right on bonds and banks
when most others were wrong. Now
Charles Peabody advises buying ...
gold.

http://www.egroups.com/group/gata/326.html?

TownCrier (12/21/99; 20:24:02MDT - Msg ID:21483)
The GOLDEN VIEW from The Tower
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=U.S.%20Economy&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_econ&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=blk&s=ee0ded64fffe1d887d8153c20ea6a56b
It seems to be drawing near to "Lightning in the Night" time, folks. That, or else "The day the Beanstalk Falls." (see yesterday's GOLDEN VIEW for the Beanstalk tale.)

After gaining $2.75 over yesterday's close in New York trade (closing at $286.55), spot gold prices have now surged nearly $6 over yesterday's NY close, up $7.50 from the intraday lows, now pushing $290.

Here's a cautionary note..."We as a central bank won't determine, OR SAY BEFOREHAND, if and when that time has come." So we have it from European Central Bank Chief Economist Otmar Issing. In an interview, Mr. Issing told Germany's Die Welt newspaper that any intervention on behalf the of the euro [he was no doubt referring to its external value...its exchange rate vs other currencies] would "only be successful if it is coordinated among the big actors and if it comes at the right time."
+
By way of background, ECB President Wim Duisenberg had expressed his only concern today was that although euroland inflation is nothing, the citizens have looked at the euro's value vis a vis the dollar and yen, and they've drawn a resulting perception of a weak currency. Such is his only concern. In Mr. Duisenberg's words, "The public sees the external value of the euro and perceives it as a weak currency," saying that is "the only cause for concern" for the ECB. "I'm convinced, however, that the euro has potential to appreciate."
+
Back to Chief Economist Issing...he served notice to the euroland member governments that time is limited for politicians to carry out structural reforms. "I become enraged when I see Europe waste its chances. The time available for reforms is running out." See the Bloomberg article's link above more more on this story.

Meanwhile, China's highest policy-making body, the State Council, has its Gold Bureau of the State Economic and Trade Commission doing the prep work for "the eventual relaxation of restrictions on gold trading in the domestic market" as reported today by Bridge News. The People's Bank of China (China's central bank) currently sets the buy/sell prices of gold for the domestic market, with local producers required to sell their production through any one of various state-owned banks. First domestically, then internationally, the opening of China as a free participant in the global gold market is seen by many as a most significant development. Brace yourselves, and stay tuned...

The 30-Yr Bond continued its slide after the FOMC provided decidedly hawkish commentary despite retaining an unbiased stance on rates. The long bond reached a yield 6.450% as the price slid by 9/32.
And how's this for rootrot of that beanstalk...on this same day that the Nasdaq Composite Index reaches a new record high on the highest single day point-gain ever, the declining stocks were evenly paced with the advancers, as they were on the Big Board (NYSE) too. Only 73 NYSE stocks reached new annual highs today, while 301 fell to new annual lows. This whole "stock index" business is but a fragile veil to the ugliness behind, and built in an economy on a currency system where confidence means everything, we shudder at the day whereupon a gentle breeze blows aside this wispy veil.

As mentioned at the start, spot gold was last qoted in NY at $286.55, and the February futures traded at COMEX gained $2.90 to $288.90. David Meger, senior metals analyst at Alaron Trading said large orders were moving a thin market today.

The ECB's weekly financial report showed a decline of 119 mln euros in its total gold assets...an adjustment that the Dutch central bank said was attributable to their current programmed gold sale of 100 tonnes during this first year of the Washington Agreement. Dutch CB spokesman Bert Groothoff said "I can confirm the amount of 13.5 tonnes of gold, 119 million euros was what the Netherlands sold." This comes on top of last week's revelation that the Dutch bank had sold �31 million in the week prior...for a total of 17 tonnes so far coming under new ownership through the off-market operations of the BIS at times not announced to the market until after-the-fact. That reveals some REAL demand, folks.

In the quasi-gold market of COMEX, 64 December futures remained in open interest after yesterday's trading, and announcement of 6 more delivery intentions brought the December delivery total to 8,182 contracts. (February OI fell by 1,256 contracts to 70,928.) Somebody wanted their gold home for the holidays, and therefore COMEX guards waved goodbye to 6,693 Registered ounces that were trucked away, leaving 1,221,389 ounces in total.

OIL

Febrary crude closed down 8� at $26.26 per barrel before the release of API inventory data promptly brought that figure back up for a 1 cent gain in after hours Access trade. Although crude stocks fell only marginally, there was a surprisingly large drawdown in distillate stocks. Will see if tomorrow's DOE date confirms this...

And that's the view from here...after the close.

The Scot (12/21/99; 20:11:38MDT - Msg ID:21482)
Gold, up up and away !
Will someone please tell me what is going on.
The Scot

beesting (12/21/99; 19:46:47MDT - Msg ID:21481)
seeker-on China.
seeker,yes China did allow personal ownership of Gold for the first time in 50 years, but the Chinese people can only buy'sell or trade Gold inside their borders.No Gold goes in or out of the country, so far, soon it will--2002??

Peter Asher, it wouldn't surprise me if some really BIG player decided to cash in his chips about 1:30 PM ET today.
By that I mean sell out his overpriced stocks and invest the proceeds in Gold.Some of them must be thinking about that by this time. We watch together....beesting.

seeker (12/21/99; 19:30:01MDT - Msg ID:21480)
CHINA
I heard a report a couple of days ago that China has opened
up its gold market to its masses. Is this not huge news to the gold market. Look what word of an open market did for China.com .....it went to the moon! Does this not mean that the eligable potential gold customers just increased by at least 120%?

1/5th of the world lives within the chinese borders. Thats well over 1,000,000,000 people. To my way of thinking this is very big news. I don't know what the top five gold stories of the year are, but don't overlook the end of the year buying spree happening now at gold store near you

lamprey_65 (12/21/99; 19:26:10MDT - Msg ID:21479)
Nice explanation of a bubble market
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_99/joubert122399.html
Part II

http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_99/joubert122399.html

Lamprey

beesting (12/21/99; 19:22:45MDT - Msg ID:21478)
Hi Peter!
http://www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html
Don't know why the "spot" price is rising, but at this rate it's $300 "spot" by tomorrow. I think Gandalf is out Christmas shopping with the Hobbits,and missing all the excite-ment.....beesting.

Peter Asher (12/21/99; 18:53:19MDT - Msg ID:21477)
There was a chart breakout at $285.50
Up $3.20 @ $289.75, @ 8:46 PM EST. This is the time when Gold usually at it's weakest!!!

Peter Asher (12/21/99; 18:31:07MDT - Msg ID:21476)
Hey beesting
Your crystal ball has Gandalfs all beat to heck! Your 50 minutes and 38 cents back to the future.

Regarding your question, the reason is not yet findable but it is significant that the move started just before the Fed announcement that should have moved the POG the other direction.

Buying into negitive sentiment??? If t'were true, that would be a watershed event.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 18:08:49MDT - Msg ID:21475)
To Phos's question:
"I must admit, I have often wondered if someone is out there printing stock certificates. Some of them are worth $100s each. Are they that hard to duplicate?"

Printing certificates as you mention has been going on ages as a form of counterfeit "money." As to the culprits at the cost, just contact Dell, Microsoft, Amazon.com, Yahoo, etc., etc., etc...

On topic with ORO's discussion, imagine if employees accepted their salaries as 100% stock and stock options. It would be like Babel all over again but with this new-fangled "money." Imagine trying to shop at Wal-mart with your IBM shares and your wife's Kodak shares. And the Wal-mart employees trying to pay rent and order pizza with Wal-mart shares. A nightmare. For that reason, a universal currency will alway be needed, though arguably the each stock is worth more than each dollar because the stock represents partial company ownership, whereas the currency represents nothing more than other people's indebtedness (though we can't forget the all-important transactional convenience of the currency.)

If you think about it, accepting stocks or stock options for total payment is similar to people of the world accepting national currencies for total payment in lieu of gold...but with one crucial difference. A national currency represents no inherent value or partial ownership of the underlying nation. It can be inflated even faster than a company's shelf-registration for more stock with the SEC, and it can be rendered worthless with nearly the same speed as a stock crash. And when people come together in the international market holding euros, dollars, yen, rubles, and pesos, it takes the universal measurement against gold to make sense of it all.

Bottom line: For the same reason you wouldn't let a company print all of the "money" they pay you with, don't let your politicians print all of the "money" you're paid with, either. Insist on some gold in that assortment of stock options, currency, and whatnot. You'll be glad you did.

Raha (12/21/99; 18:02:36MDT - Msg ID:21474)
***My Top Five Events For Gold Market 1999***
First time poster (here) been lurking for a while (actually treading water in the moat), so be gentle. Figured with my 15 years in the gold business I could scarf up that first prize coin by entering MK's contest. So here goes, Drum Roll PLease
***My Top Five Events For Gold Market 1999***
Dateline South La.

Early Spring 1999 "Raha scoops up gold with both fists"
Sensing this will be the year Raha doubles down on physical and continues buying until the BOE announcement.

Summer 1999 "Raha Sells it ALL"
With gold at 251.00 and Raha hearing rumors of 200.00 gold Raha unloads. Whew just in time.

Early Autumn 1999 "Raha On Buying Binge"
Raha seeing gold at 322.00 can't resist, projects 400.00 gold by end of year and jumps back in the fray.Thanks Washing ton agreement.

December 1999 "Raha (under an assumed name) Buying"
NO SELLING , NO BUYING, NO SELLING,

NO BUYING

XMAS 1999 "Raha Fractures Elbow"
Overhearing a conversation between Raha and Mrs. Raha about Raha being jinxed Little Raha pipes in "Daddy at school if we have a jinx we run around the swing backwards 3 times and yell JINX GO AWAY" hmmm

I know the rules state that I must some this up in 30 words so here goes buy, no sell, buy, no sell, buy, no sell, buy, no sell , buy and hold the best is yet to come.
Thanks All
Bye (no sell)

beesting (12/21/99; 17:59:31MDT - Msg ID:21473)
"Spot Gold" $289.13 at 8:45 PM ET.
http://www.quoteline.com/irtmecoe.asp
Since 11:30 AM ET Gold has been rise-ing almost a dollar an hour today,anyone have an explanation for that? Maybe Santa wants to be extra nice to the Goldhearts this year.....beesting.

megatron (12/21/99; 17:56:31MDT - Msg ID:21472)
Ph in LA
They intend to make money by selling to the same @#$%^& ing
numbskulls who buy/have Amazon and goto.com et al. in their mutual fund. 'Everything in the world works exactly as it's supposed to'.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 17:36:11MDT - Msg ID:21471)
REMINDER (and CHANGES) ***CONTEST****CONTEST****CONTEST*****
From MK's Monday announce of an opportunity for you to earn precious metal:

I think a lot of the meisters are going to be hanging out at the FORUM during this Christmas week despite wild dashes to the Mall, food and beverage outlets, and other holiday activity, so I thought it would be a good time to have an important year-end type of contest. I hope posters find the time.......

For a French 20 francs gold coin (the famous gold Rooster coin--containing .1867 pure gold ounces), please carefully read and follow these simple instructions:

List the TOP FIVE EVENTS for the GOLD market in 1999 in a newspaper-type headline format (example: "Gandalf the White Purchases Entirety of BOE Fifth Gold Auction") with a short explanation as to why each was significant--whether positive or negative. This must be followed by a review of the events and their impact AS A GROUP on the psychology of gold investors. That review should be at least 30 words.

Length of review is not as important as content!! Your contest entry must be headed with ***MY TOP FIVE EVENTS for GOLD MARKET 1999*** (surrounded by stars as shown here)

The contest will run between now and the end of the day (Midnight Forum Time) Sunday 12-26-99. Time of submission will not play a role in the selection of winners. Content and quality of the post are the keys.....

There will be two runner-up silver Eagles prizes.

One entry per poster, please.

To encourage additional participation from our silent forum vistors, first-time posters will receive a Silver Eagle for posting during the contest period, but you must do two things:
1. Participate in the contest or else post at least 30 words on any gold investment related subject, and
2. You must e-mail us that this is your first post so that we'll know to verify if you qualify for the Silver (cpm@usagold.com)

I [Michael Kosares] will post my TOP FIVE on Monday after the CONTEST is officially closed. (The winning entry will not be contingent on agreement with me but the strength of the commentary. The winners' announcement might extend into the New Year depending upon year-end schedules of our panel of judges.)

I just thought it might be fun to recapitulate the past year.......

Onward, my fellow meisters.......into the fray. Let knowledge and courtesy be your hallmarks; wisdom your guide.

I want to take this opportunity to wish all our posters and lurkers Happy Holidays! I would like to especially thank our regular posters for making this one of the most interesting and informative stops on the internet. We've come a long ways from where we began, and built something here of which we can all be proud. May God bless and keep each of you and your families during these happy year end celebrations and into the New Year...... MK

Phos (12/21/99; 17:29:50MDT - Msg ID:21470)
PH in LA (12/21/99; 11:31:34MDT - Msg ID:21441)
http://ga.to/mmf/currency.html
There is a discussion of this scam at the link site. Apparently it has been going on for a while now. Jeez, if the Fed can keep printing the stuff, why can't we? I must admit, I have often wondered if someone is out there printing stock certificates. Some of them are worth $100s each. Are they that hard to duplicate?

Phos (12/21/99; 17:13:15MDT - Msg ID:21469)
megatron (12/21/99; 16:41:16MDT - Msg ID:21466)
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/gordon110799.html
You have another gold-bug in Vancouver - Ian Gordon of Canaccord Capital. I don't know if you have read his series of articles on the history of gold (in relation to the Kondratiev theory). See the link. An excellent read. I think our day is much closer now, thanks to Mr. Greenspan. I would not wish to be in his shoes. If he can prevent the debacle here, he is truly a miracle worker.

PH in LA (12/21/99; 17:04:53MDT - Msg ID:21468)
World Currency Cartel Scam
Thanks, Aggie (12/21/99; 12:23:46MDT - Msg ID:21450) and Goldfly (12/21/99; 12:08:15MDT - Msg ID:21447) for the link explaining the currency cartel scam. I posted just to see if someone knew how the perpetrators hoped to make money with this thing since it didn't occur to me for one second to send in any money.

Mr. Gresham:
It also never occured to me that anyone else on this board would jump at a chance to throw away $35, either. And certainly not after checking out the link supplied by Aggie and Goldfly. Asking MK to delete the original post from the archives seems like overkill, don't you think? By the way, my post was not "inadvertent" since I intended to post it. I do appreciate that it was a bit off-topic, although it did deal with a currency "issue" (pun intended).

TownCrier (12/21/99; 16:50:02MDT - Msg ID:21467)
Gandalf, in answer to your remaining question from yesterday...
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/19991217/wl/germany_nazi_labor_21.html
You said, "Question = How can anyone, (like the BIS) just because they keep their books in a certain manner, think that they still have non-terminated rights? How can anyone make their own rules? If someone defaults, they have wiped the slate clean and everyone starts at step one again !! --- What am I missing here ?"

There was never a formally bankruptcy proceeding in which the U.S. was held up before a world court and declared to be insolvent, with the various expected judgements of settlement for the counterparties. The U.S. in 1971 simply crossed its arms, pouted its lips, and said "That's it! I'm not paying out any more gold on your claims!" The matter has never been officially, and finally resolved through some fancy "Treaty of International Debt Forgiveness to the United States of America."

Just like wartime Germany, that at the time of their slave and forced labor crossed their arms and said "Work, you! We are not paying for your labor!" Even today, after all these years, the valid "claims" of these laborers still exist...just as they do with the U.S.

Review this linked article.
HEADLINE: Germany compensates slave and forced laborers

Germany is now trying to officially clean this slate through formal channels and with monetary settlement...and the 1940's was a lot longer ago than 1971 was! Not to mention a complete alteration of the governing regime...the party responsible.

Here we see Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder offering a $5.2 billion deal for those who haven't been covered by $60 billion in payments since World War II. Most notable, this article states: In return for the fund, lawyers agreed a stay of current litigation, and the U.S. government has pledged to protect German firms from future U.S. action over their wartime past by issuing a declaration urging courts not to take up new claims.

In addition to the claims of unpaid slave and forced labor workers are claims for stolen bank accounts and insurance policies.

Internationally, the various countries could still voice a valid claim from 1971 that the U.S. stole the gold that these foolish governments had unwisely been content to hold in paper dollar form.

This article said it was still "unclear how the German state will raise the money it pledged to put into the fund."

Because we've already had discussions that reveal when dollars come out of international reserves en masse they would be immediately rendered useless for the acquisition of real goods. They would only be good for paying down any outstanding dollar-denominated debts. That being the case, this would be a fine and meaningful way for the German government to rid itself of the excess dollars held in their Central Bank reserves without tanking the dollar's value immediately in the process. They would actually get some good use out of them.

megatron (12/21/99; 16:41:16MDT - Msg ID:21466)
gold radio
Last Sat. here in sunny? Vancouver a fantastic event occured. On the WIC radio network a pro-gold voice came out of my radio! It's true. A very conservative, very non-goldbug analyst named Micheal Levy gave a staggeringly beautiful explanation of, get this, gold price manipulation by none other than Alan Redspan himself. Levy was practically yelling into the mike. I got so excited I jumped on the bed! When these kind of guys start yelling and making direct accusations ON THE AIR, somethin's gonna go! OOOOOO, I can't wait!!!!

NORTH OF 49 (12/21/99; 16:34:44MDT - Msg ID:21465)
Canamami
I knew you couldn't stay away!!:-)

N049

canamami (12/21/99; 16:23:49MDT - Msg ID:21464)
Article "Giving Gold the Finger", by David Futrelle
http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/david_futrelle?id=37927b3d0
This article may have already been posted, as it dates from July, but this is the first time I've seen it. It is decidedly anti-gold, and outdated as again it is from July, but it does mention GATA and USAGOLD, so it might be of some interest to people as a curiosity. I bet Futrelle wasn't laughing when the Washington Agreement was announced.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 16:17:38MDT - Msg ID:21463)
IMF Completes Second Off-Market Gold Sale
News Brief No. 99/86
December 21, 1999

As part of the previously announced financing for debt relief and financial support for the world's poorest nations, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) completed the second off-market gold sale on December 17, 1999.

"We sold slightly more than 655,000 ounces of gold to Mexico and accepted it back immediately from Mexico for payment of an obligation due the same day," said IMF Treasurer Eduard Brau. "As planned for this transaction and all gold transactions, the gold did not enter the market." The IMF retained about SDR 23 million on its own account as required by the Articles of Agreement. The remainder of the proceeds-SDR 111 million (about US$ 152 million)-was invested with the Bank for International Settlements to generate income for the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative.

"Our profits from the two gold sales so far has reached SDR 1.3 billion," Mr. Brau said. "Similar transactions are planned in the coming months with Mexico, until we reach the targeted amount of SDR 2.226 billion in profits."
-------
As discussed in a post earlier today, here we see the IMF retaining in their books the original gold value as specified under their Articles of Agreement, however, the extra dollar-denominated "value" achieved through the revaluation process is passed on to an account with the BIS.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 16:11:18MDT - Msg ID:21462)
To clarify....
The last paragraph in the preceeding Press Release was added here in The Tower...not part of the official FOMC text.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 16:09:12MDT - Msg ID:21461)
The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee's hawkish statement
Press Release
Date: December 21, 1999
For immediate release

The Federal Open Market Committee made no change today in its target for the federal funds rate.

Based on the available evidence, however, the Committee remains concerned with the possibility that over time increases in demand will continue to exceed the growth in potential supply, even after taking account of the remarkable rise in productivity growth. Such trends could foster inflationary imbalances that would undermine the economy's exemplary performance.

Nonetheless, in light of market uncertainties associated with the century date change, the Committee decided to adopt a symmetric directive in order to indicate that the focus of policy in the intermeeting period must be ensuring a smooth transition into the Year 2000. At its next meeting the Committee will assess available information on the likely balance of supply and demand, conditions in financial markets, and the possible need for adjustment in the stance of policy to contain inflationary pressures.

They are clearly saying ("clear" for them, that is) that the neutral bias was only window dressing so as not to spook the markets ahead of Y2K, but the "adjustment in the stance of policy to contain inflationary pressures" belies the truth of the matter. "Adjusting the policy" is Fed-speak for adjusting the rates, which is essentially a done-deal come February based on what they see as problemmatic right now--inflationary pressures.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 15:59:41MDT - Msg ID:21460)
Martin Armstrong's Japanese Subsidiary, Cresvale International, Files for Bankruptcy
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/991221/japan_secu_1.html
Having used Cresvale to raise $3 billion from Japanese investors under the pretense that the money would be invested in "safe" securities, Armstrong allegedly made risky bets and lost a half-billion dollars...a fact he tried to hide from the investors.

In the meanwhile, Armstrong himself was badmouthing the future prospects for gold while at the same time buying it with both hands. Authorities are currently deciding on whether to hold him in contempt of court for continuing to hide $16 million in gold bars and coins which were purchased with company money according to this and previous reports.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 15:50:08MDT - Msg ID:21459)
A sign of the times. You have to see it to believe it.
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/991221/dot_com_ci_2.html
The town of Halfway, Oregon is slowly dying...business is leaving, the logging is nearly gone, and the gold mines are already closed.

The proposed "solution" is to rename the town Half.com, hoping the tourist business will support the town that has become the first to add ".com" to its name.

A city planner said, "We have a slump. Half.com is our ticket to where we need to be."

she-gold (12/21/99; 14:35:08MDT - Msg ID:21458)
ORO
www.usagold.com
I find Bill Parish and your writings to be nothing short of amazing. Illuminating. I tell people at the hospital - all heavily into equities - about what i've learned and they look at me with a blank stare... and then continue on about hot equites. Truly, these are interesting times.

I imagine the rational for allowing the ESOP scheme to continue. There has always been more of that entrepreneurial spirit here in the USA and it's only natural that the government should support the pursuits of new technologies as in the past. And clearly the ESOPs ponzi scheme is producing another world brain-drain bringing tech talent to USA from the rest of the world. Even if the majority of these new tech companies don't eventually survive, the few that do will be world leaders. Nobody faults Greenspan and the IRS since the ESOPs scheme is producing "wealth" in staggering proportions and leading to the entrenchment of American dominance in technology?

The most unsettling thing to me about about the ESOPs experiment is the magnitude of its excesses, and the blind optimism and lack of historical reference of the ESOP participants (investors, media, government, entrepreneurs). This dependence on a perpetually sustained increase in stock price for the overall profitablity of a company must be making Greenspan shit bricks. It may be Y2K that brings the house down (by the increased inefficiencies of a world repairing it's infrastructure and the resultant pause, or pullback, in stock price). Or it may be that forgotten thing called HISTORY (ie. business cycles have a tendency to... cycle).

The American advocates of this New Economy (ie. congress, media, investors, public, IRS) seem to be willing to risk(knowingly or unknowingly) financial armeggedon for the sake of FURTHER corporate world dominance. And for what?

I wonder if i wouldn't be happier not knowing the dirty little secrets i've learned here. At least i won't be surprised when things get ugly.

Thanks ORO, FOA and others here for the continued education.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 14:09:14MDT - Msg ID:21457)
Sir Journeyman's (12/21/99; 10:16:16MDT) "Where to send the bill?"
Your post:
---------"Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that Britain will write off all it's third-world debt, a total of 41 billion {pounds? dollars?} -CNBC, 99/12/21, 11:38:15 AM

When "Britain" writes off debt, what does this mean? Does this mean British banks? If so, which ones? Or does it mean the British government only? In any case, where does the money come from?" -----------

We must realize that our grasp of this development will only be as menaingful as our grasp of fractional-reserve banking practices...the privileged business allowances of government regulations that allow banks to temporarily expand the currency supply by lending deposits (over and over again) such that the borrower and depositor both have use of this money at the same time. (For more on this, see the TownCrier entry on banking in the Hall of Fame.) The essential point to grasp here is that when money is created through lending, it must subsequently be writen off when the loan is repayed.

Here's a good opportunity to respond to ORO's point yesterday regarding temporary and permanent money supplies. ORO, in your post (12/20/99; 19:44) you wrote about the IMF's gold revalution and subsequent permanent money creation as I've outlined in my previous post. You said, "Once their appetite is wet by this action, it would be just a matter of time till they show active encouragement for debtors to pay in gold. The gold payment is much better than "creating" money, since it eliminates debt while keeping cash outstanding alive, even without new loan issuance. Originally 17.5 $B in 1933, growing only at the rate of loan default."

I would like to raise a question about the final sentence. If a loan is defaulted upon, it is then incumbent upon the bank, as a corporation, to write down their own accumulated profits in equal measure with the outstanding principle of the defaulted loan. In this manner, you can see that the money supply still must contract as this amount of money is still stricken from existence. It is when so many borrowers default on their loans that the bank runs out of their own money in writing off these non-performing loans that the bank corporation goes bankrupt. If they are owned or bought by another banking corporation, it would fall upon this next bank to pony up the funds necessary to clear the books. Each time, this money is wiped out. This is the grim truth behind Sir turbohawg's scenario for spiralling deflation that that would outpace any government or banking attempt at reinflation. In his discussions with The Stranger, I'm not sure that Turbohawg ever quite painted it that way, but at any rate, The Stranger never quite recognized this potential for deflationary collapse. If loans are defaulting and banks are collapsing, the temporary currency supply can contract quite quickly. What a mess!

So ORO, from this you should see that only the gold itself and the *special* dollars created in a scheme such as the IMF is now using (along with counterfeit dollars!) make up a permanent money supply. Loan defaults alone don't help matters. If a bank were to fail and nobody stepped in to pick up the peices, I'm not sure where things would stand. Depositors wouldn't get their deposits back, but the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation would pony up some of their pool of resources to provide some compensation. Also, there would still be many performing loans in addition to the non-performing loans which killed the bank. If all these people could start singing "Ding-Dong the Bank is Dead" and no longer worry about repaying these loans, then I suppose that would increase the permanent money supply unless the Fed had the final obligation to write down whatever money wasn't offset directly by the depositors' losses.

Back to Journeyman...through legislation ANYTHING is possible. If the Government gives the creditor banks the authority to halt collection on these outstanding loans, and to simply close the ledger books on these without the requisite need to write off their own profits or otherwise "annihilate" offsetting viable currency, then in fact we have found ANOTHER way to add to ORO's permanent currency supply. IT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED that this undermines the only element that gives any value to a fiat currency...that being the efforts of borrowers to compete for the remaining temporary supply. Imagine if tomorrow all govenments of the world (including the U.S.) declared a suspension of all outstanding loan obligations. You no longer had to pay off your car, home mortgage, student loans, credit cards, etc. Even Treasury bonds would no longer carry the obligation to pay the face value upon maturity. What would the dollar truly be good for at that point? By and large, people work and sell their dear goods for currency to climb out of debt. On such a day would you look at your savings and think yourself a rich man? Who would part with their dear goods in exchange for heaps of old government sanctioned paper? Only real goods would have meaning, and gold serves the monetary capacity in a real economy.

Journey, any degree of debt forgiveness as we've discussed takes us one incremental step closer to the grand conclusion outlined immediately above. Hyperinflation of a nation's local currency is yet another way to effectively bring about debt-forgiveness on loans denominated in that currency. Gold always protects a person's savings in such an event...if they were wise enough to save in this form of ultimate, sovereign money.

rsjacksr (12/21/99; 13:31:43MDT - Msg ID:21456)
Dr S. Goldmans' view on why we (FED) doesn't see local inflation and why old AL is behind the curve.
http://www.simplex.co.il/guests/fed.htm
Good reading .... suggest everyone take a peek.

Mr Gresham (12/21/99; 13:20:23MDT - Msg ID:21455)
# 21441 Spam Ad
MK or other sysop -- Wouldn't it be a good idea to delete PH in LA's inadvertent post of that ad (it has their fax # in it) so that no one sends them any $ as a result of its posting here?

PH in LA -- it's good to bring up things here that others can warn against as scams, so thanks -- just don't buy any!

beesting (12/21/99; 13:07:54MDT - Msg ID:21454)
**SATIRE**
Hey wife,I heard at work today there's a huge pre-Christmas sale going on at some-place called "Nasdaq", be a good wife and buy whatever they're selling over there, before their sold out,hurry!!......smile.....beesting.

phaedrus (12/21/99; 13:07:18MDT - Msg ID:21453)
finale for bonds
Well, well. Bond finally having a good day, rally close to a full point up on the news that Greenspan is a complete moron who refuses to rein in this ponzi fest... and then they finish down and near the lows, on their butts yet AGAIN for the day.

Hmmm...could this be because foreigners are now holding 40% of US bond issues, up from only 20% five years ago, and they now see the writing on the wall and are slipping out the back?

Hmmmm.... oil doubling in price over a year, bonds falling off sharply, a certain foreign currency challenging the dollar and refusing to go down...we've seen this movie before. In 1987. Except then it was the deutschmark instead of the Yen, and the public weren't as completely suckered as they are now. Which means dis time, it goan be reeeeeel oogily. Extra crispy.

Merry Christmas folks.

TownCrier (12/21/99; 12:59:41MDT - Msg ID:21452)
The IMF gold revaluation, follow-up for ORO especially
http://www.usagold.com/THEGILDEDOPINION.html
ORO, here is more information on the IMF's gold-revaluation that might support my theory of the operational (bookkeeping) outline suggested in TownCrier(12/20/99; 15:15:36MDT)...

IMF News Brief No. 99/84--IMF Completes First Off-Market Gold Sale
As part of the previously announced financing for debt relief and financial support for the world's poorest nations (see News Brief No. 99/62), the International Monetary Fund (IMF) completed the first off-market gold sale on December 14, 1999.
"We sold slightly more than 7 million ounces of gold to Brazil," said IMF Treasurer Eduard Brau, "and accepted it back immediately from Brazil for payment of an obligation due the same day. Thus, the gold did not enter the market." The IMF retained about SDR 250 million on its own account as required by the Articles of Agreement. The remainder of the proceeds�SDR 1.2 billion (about US$1.6 billion)�was invested with the Bank for International Settlements to generate income for the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative.
--------
The key statement above as I see it is "The IMF retained about SDR 250 million on its own account as required by the Articles of Agreement." This value corresponds to SDR 35 for the 7 million ounces, and would offer some great degree of credibility to the my statement offered yesterday:
"Could the answer to my two-fold difficulty be that the IMF then writes their gold back down to SDR35 in value ($48), therewith canceling out the corresponding principle value from the Brazil loan repayment, and also thereby eliminating the double increase in value on both the BIS and IMF balance sheets? At the end of this operation, the ledger issues on the Brazil loan would be properly squared away, and the newly created dollars would be held free-and-clear within the BIS account."

ORO, below I've offered a modified version of your latest revised bookkepping proposal as an alternative (be sure to widen your browser window so that each line in the 3-column table ends with "*"):

....... Brazil ..................................... IMF Assets................... ......... ..... ...... BIS *
__________________________________________________________________ *
[Before]
....... $2B cash ............................... $2B loan to Brazil ..........................ZERO at BIS *
(BUT $2B debt is owed to IMF) .... 7 M oz gold (carried on IMF books @ $48=$330M) *

<<keep in mind that due to the rules of banking, the IMF must eventually cancel out 2 $B in "cash" which was created when the $2B loan was established>>

[IMF "Au sale"]
... 7 M oz bought @ $282 ............................ $2B loan .............................ZERO at BIS *
(BUT, $2B debt STILL owed to IMF)... ......... $2B cash *

<<For the sake of ease and clarity, looking at the entry above reveals that now would be a good time to assume the IMF settles its Lending Ledger to ZERO by cancelling the $2B cash against the loan, though in truth it is done after the next step>>

[IMF takes gold to settle debt]
... ZERO at Brazil........................ ........7 m oz gold (@ $282=$2 B) ...........ZERO at BIS *

<<After the gold "ownership" returned to the IMF in addition to the $2B cash loan payment from Brazil, the IMF can write down its loan book, and according to the News Brief: "The IMF retained about SDR 250 million [$330M] on its own account as required by the Articles of Agreement." This is a return to the $330M value they started with for the 7 M ounces. The remainder of the value gets transferred to the BIS account.>>

[IMF transfers "dollar value" to BIS]
... ZERO at Brazil .......................7 M oz gold (held on IMF books @ $330M) ............ $1.67B at BIS *
_____________________________________________________________________ *

<<Now that the operation is done, let's compare the [Before] and [After] conditions for Brazil, the IMF, and the BIS in these three columns>>:

[Before]
....... $2B cash ............................... $2B loan to Brazil .......................................ZERO at BIS *
(BUT $2B debt is owed to IMF) .... 7 M oz gold (carried on IMF books @ $48=$330M) *

and [After]
... ZERO at Brazil .......................7 M oz gold (held on IMF books @ $330M) ............ $1.67B at BIS *

Special note to all those that don't yet fully understand banking and money creation/destruction....please read the work by Dr. Paul Hein in USAGOLD's Gilded Opinion (link above) called "All Work and No Pay." There is a very important concept here that you absolutely MUST grasp if you are to have any hope of understanding gold's VITAL role in this world. The prominent voices at this Round Table understand it quite well, and you will quickly join them when you read that article. Prepare to amaze your friends and family over Christmas.

phaedrus (12/21/99; 12:26:34MDT - Msg ID:21451)
And Yet..
Bonds back to unchanged now...they were up half a point before the announcement, spike up almost a FULL point on the announcement of a neutral bias, and now... they head back to unchanged??

Loopy loo, la de da... no, bond traders aren't nuts, folks, they just realize that Greenspan is a jackass who has lost his marbles. The magician's tricks are wearing thin.

Mean while, someone is goosing gold a little bit, up 3 bucks and flirting with $290, five minutes left to trade.

Hoo-ah.

Aggie (12/21/99; 12:23:46MDT - Msg ID:21450)
Ph in LA
http://ga.to/mmf/currency.html
World currency cartel is a spam see link

phaedrus (12/21/99; 12:16:45MDT - Msg ID:21449)
then again....

"Fed keeps neutral bias to assure smooth Y2K transition."

Then again, maybe they are just going with this b.s. trend. Good going Alan, the markets were really nervous about Y2K, thank goodness you calmed them down or the Nasdaq might not have been able to make more new highs today.

Just when I think I can't possibly be any more cynical.

Al Fulchino (12/21/99; 12:08:30MDT - Msg ID:21448)
PH in LA
PH if you get anymore of those u might do a virus check :)
Also consider putting them on your "blocklist"

I don't see any good coming out of receipt of that type of email.

Best to you

Goldfly (12/21/99; 12:08:15MDT - Msg ID:21447)
PH and the WWC
http://ga.to/mmf/SpamExplained/currency.html
SCAM!!!!!!

phaedrus (12/21/99; 12:06:28MDT - Msg ID:21446)
here comes de judge

I'm starting to really learn about mass psychology I think. Not just learn it as in book learning, but to really soak the lesson in, to where you feel it in your gut. Know what I mean, the difference between understanding something...and really Understanding Something?

Bonds are up roughly half a point about 10 minutes to go before the announcement.

Why? Why should bonds be up when signs point to tightening and the pundits agree a tightening would be bad news bears? Why should folks be sticking their neck out and bulling up bonds now, with no reason to do so and thus hanging their butts in the wind?

Part of it is short covering...cautious bond bears who are reaping their recent short gains before Greenspan gives them a potential nasty surprise to the upside. But a bigger part of this unjustified rise is beecause people are desperately optimistic. The optimists have been so prevalent, the sheer force of the bull tide is so strong, that people are sticking their necks out and taking a hardcore "nothing can go wrong attitude" before the fact. They are so determined not to let the good times die that they are willing to take a leap of faith off a cliff if necessary. The show MUST go on.

I'm starting to reaaally grasp the psychology of the final days of a bull market. It's a time when the longs seem to be buying almost out of denial, refusing to accept the notion that the party is nearing its end.

Sort of like a teenage couple who were madly in love for about five minutes but then all of a sudden it left, the feeling is gone, but they really MISS that feeling so they pretend it's still there and try so hard to keep the dream going..until finally reality breaks through and they're squashed like roadkill by reality. Like Romeo and Juliet. Maybe they fell out of love, discovered the poetry books were bogus, and killed themselves out of apathy and disgust. Heh. Who knows.

This post is soon to be ancient history. Whatcha gonna do Al?

Ten minutes to go time.

silent runner (12/21/99; 11:50:45MDT - Msg ID:21445)
political and financial knowledge
how come i had all the answers when i knew nothing? i feel like a teenager all over again.

ORO (12/21/99; 11:49:37MDT - Msg ID:21444)
Journeyman - ESOPs, expanding a bit more
The ESOPs do attract talent to startups and young companies with potential for IPO and further stock appreciation through sales of a "hot" new product. This is absolutely right and would have been an economic plus. The service of these people for the product user is too costly because of the competition for talent in the publicly traded technology companies. Thus - products are developed at a rapid pace, but only the lower end of talent is available to implement them.

The point is that the distortion comes from the divergent accounting treatments of ESOPs in tax accounting and formal books of the company. It is an expense in the tax books, but it is absent from the income statements. Because of this, what is an expense for the stockholder is a cash generator for the corporation.
Once a critical point in valuation had been passed, the math of the system produced a "pump" or a feed-forward loop through the stock price. The expectation of earnings growth had created the expected growth - directly through the ESOPs, -indirectly through Mergers and Acquisitions. The M&A is made possible by the high expectations that have been built up for key tech corporation's earnings and expressed as high valuations. The high valuations themselves, from the point of view of the rational investor, introduce the ESOP payoff that will justify the high valuation. High valuation itself allows M&A to be profitable, since buying cheap cash flow with stock is no problem. The purchased cash flow (and technology) eliminate newcomers in established technology arenas, and prevent competition. But as a result, one has a monopoly - with the classical monopoly problem, that it must sell product at a loss in order to maintain the monopoly. This is part of Scott McNealy's complaint against MSFT.

This odd situation is causing the widespread malinvestment, the tie up of loosely related businesses in large inefficient corporations at a time when economies of scale are disappearing. Furthermore, it supports older corporation's control of their technology arena, while pushing out into the markets huge numbers of near-sure-to-fail businesses in the areas not controlled by the larger corporations. Of course, the further stock valuations rise, the less cash must be generated by the new companies' businesses, since their booked costs do not include their major compensation cost.

This has culminated in the LINUX companies that have no control whatsoever of their products (not even a patent on any element of the key technology) and free internet services that rely on advertizing for revenue but get earnings primarilly from the their employees excercise of stock options.

Qualcom has more than quadrupled so far this year. It is not because their business strategy is so wonderful, it is because the first large batch of employee owned stock options is coming up for excercise next year. This company will see profits rise over 5 fold on the books, but will be losing money if the costs of the options excercised is considered.

beesting (12/21/99; 11:38:19MDT - Msg ID:21443)
Fed may have raised interest rates.
http://www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html
For some reason were getting a nice upward SPIKE on the charts right now. At 1:28 ET $285.30....Those in the know....buy Gold.....beesting.Sorry if this posts twice!

beesting (12/21/99; 11:34:28MDT - Msg ID:21442)
Fed may have raised interest rates.
http://www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html
For some reason were getting a nice upward SPIKE on the charts right now. At 1:28 ET $285.30....Those in the know....buy Gold.....beesting.

PH in LA (12/21/99; 11:31:34MDT - Msg ID:21441)
Any else get this?
This message comes by e-mail every so often. Does anyone know what they're up to? (Besides looking for donations, of course.) I especially liked the "most wealthiest people" phrase! PH in LA

Dear Friend:

If you have already responded to the following announcement
a few days ago, that means your package is already on its
way and it should be arriving soon! If you have not responded to this before, please pay attention to it now. This is very important!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Your future May Depend on it !

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before you know about this 'Important Announcement', you must first read the following 'Editorial Excerpts' from some
important publications in the United States:

NEW YORK TIMES: "In concluding our review of Financial
organizations to effect change in the 90's, special attention should be called to a California based organization, 'WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL'. Members of this organization are amassing hundred of millions of dollars in the currency market using a very LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to the general public. While their purpose is not yet known, their presence has most certainly been felt".

NBC NIGHTLY NEWS: "Members of 'World Currency Cartel', who
always keep a low profile, are considered to be some of the
most wealthiest people in North America".

More excerpts later, but first let us give you this very
"IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT":

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

We are glad to announce that for the first time and for a very short period of time, WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL will instruct a LIMITED number of people worldwide on 'HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY'. We will transact the first conversion for you, after that you can easily and quickly do this on your own hundreds or even thousands of times every month. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW"!

*************************************************************
*************************************************************

It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While
currency does fluctuate daily, we can show you 'HOW TO CONVERT
$99 INTO $588 AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT'. That means, you will
be able to EXCHANGE $99, AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS, FOR
$580 OF THE SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish,
every day, every week, every month. All very LEGAL and
effortlessly!

It takes only 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can
do this from home, office or even while traveling. All you
need is an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all,
you can do this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!

Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is
NEVER-ENDING. For as long as the global financial community
continues to use different currencies with varying exchange
rates, the "SECRET FLAW" will exist.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As we said earlier , we will do the first transaction for
you and will show you exactly how to do this on your own,
over and over again!

The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely
up to you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon
join the list of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis
many times a day. The transaction is so simple that even a
high school kid can do it!

We at the World Currency Cartel would like to see a uniform
global currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will
allow a LIMITED number of individuals worldwide to share in
the UNLIMITED PROFITS provided for by the world currency
differentials.

We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you
to do so. We can say however, that our parent organization,
CILS, benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared, as we
ourselves, along with YOU, benefit likewise. Your main concern
surely will be, how you will benefit.

As soon as you become a member, you will make transactions
from your home, office, by telephone or through the mail. You
can conduct these transactions even while traveling.

Don't believe us? Experience it for yourself!

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Unlike anyone else, we will assure you great financial freedom
and you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and
join the list of MILLIONAIRES being created using this very
"SECRET FLAW" in the world currency market.

*************************************************************
*************************************************************

DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

There is a one time membership fee of only $195. BUT, if you
join within the next 10 days, you can join us for only $25
administrative cost. Your important documents, instructions,
contact name/address, phone number and all other pertinent
information will be mailed to you immediately. So take
advantage of our Anniversary date and join us today.

(If you are replying after the next 10 days, you must pay
$195.00 for the membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS, and no more
E-mail inquiries please).

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos
CONFIDENTIAL!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you
must return all papers/documents for a refund within 30 days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMPORTANT:

****************

1...Please write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on a
paper
2...Below your mailing address, please write your E-mail address
3...At the top left hand corner, please write the words "NEW
MEMBER"
4...Attach a CHECK for $25 + $10 for the shipping and handling
of documents (TOTAL = $35.00) PAYABLE TO "NDML" and FAX it to:

212-208-3050

(Note: We are ONLY accepting CHECK-BY-FAX as a form of payment
at this time. We WILL be able to cash the check you send us
by fax, you do not need to mail us a check. If your check is
dark, please PRINT ALL OF THE INFORMATION ON THE CHECK ONTO THE
PAPER YOU ARE FAXING US so that it is clearly legible!) Please
allow 2-4 weeks for delivery. No shipments will be made until
the check has cleared.

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Here are some more 'Editorial Excerpts':

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WALL STREET: "A discreet group of Americans, operating under
the guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making
rumbles in world finance market. While at this time, their game
is not completely known, they certainly will be watched by
those making major moves in the currency contracts".

FINANCIAL WEEK: "Watch them, monitor them, extract their
knowledge and try to become one of them. That is the soundest
financial advice we could give to anyone".

NATIONAL BUSINESS WEEKLY: "While this reporter has been left
in the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able
to confirm that 'World Currency Cartel' and its members are
literally amassing great fortunes overnight".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

rsjacksr (12/21/99; 11:19:17MDT - Msg ID:21440)
Look who is making money after losing money last year... Any guesses... Initials GS mean anything to you
http://www.bloomberg.com/bbn/topsum.html?s=15ca4dc663c0814c948bc8c593056e7c

Top Financial News
Tue, 21 Dec 1999, 1:13pm EST

Goldman Sachs Has 4th-Quarter Profit
From Operations After Year-Ago Loss
By Monique Wise

[snip]Goldman Posts 4th-Qtr Profit From Ops of $756 Mln (Update3)

Journeyman (12/21/99; 11:02:25MDT - Msg ID:21439)
Re: ORO Msg ID:21436, ESOP and Obsolesence
Interesting! If I understand, you're saying that the "windfalls" from ESOPs are used to, among other things, reduce the costs of product features that would have uneconomic "marginal utility" in an unfiddled truly free market. Thus productivity is diverted from what would otherwise prove to be more useful pursuits into what will prove to be, particularly in the software area, research and development of not-so-classic "malinvestments."

Further, since ESOPs go to employees, particularly the high paid ones, ESOPs are naturally suited or biased to be used for compensation in R&D. But how about high-paid management, etc. as well? I don't have enough experience with large organizations to know the relative distribution of highly paid talent in such organizations, I guess.

It would seem that ESOPs would attract talent to the companies perceived to have the most upside stock potential. Thus the stock performance of a company becomes more of a talent recruitment and retention factor.

Do I have this right?

Regards,
Journeyman

Journeyman (12/21/99; 10:28:02MDT - Msg ID:21438)
U.S. Economy: Titanic or not Titanic?
- Former Fed governor Alan Blinder says he isn't convinced "a substantial correction, maybe even call it a crash, in the stock market would necessarily derail the [real] economy. It didn't in 1987." -CNBC, 99/12/21, 11:58:59 AM

Regards, J.

Journeyman (12/21/99; 10:16:16MDT - Msg ID:21437)
Where to send the bill?
- Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that Britain will write off all it's third-world debt, a total of 41 billion {pounds? dollars?} -CNBC, 99/12/21, 11:38:15 AM

When "Britain" writes off debt, what does this mean? Does this mean British banks? If so, which ones? Or does it mean the British government only? In any case, where does the money come from?

Regards,
Journeyman

Hint: If the money comes from the British Gvt., where will said gvt. get it?

ORO (12/21/99; 09:58:03MDT - Msg ID:21436)
Journey - ESOP and Obsolesence
The "built in obsolesence" is not truly the kind of obsolesence purposefully put into US cars in the late 60s, where the purpose was to cause the car to stop functioning after a set period. The "stuff" still works. The technology is fine - though very buggy. The obsolesence is induced by the introduction of new features and greater capacities at a lower price. The obsolesence is real in that there is something truly better to replace the old machines and software.
ESOPs help with the R&D that creates the obsolesence by covering the R&D cost. The very expensive talent that is needed for this is compensated with stock options rather than cash. The fact of this cash free compensation allows the disproportionate expenditure of "talent" hours on new versions of software and hardware that push out previous generations of the products once a significant set of new features and power make it possible to do something desirable to the user, which was not possible before.

The main point is the push into lower marginal uses as price falls. Accelerating this push artificially puts to waste a greater portion of the R&D effort and introduces to the users product that they are not ready to use, and therefore underutilize. The economic value of each doubling in the power of computers is marginal and should be measured in log terms - the economic value of a PC with 64 MB RAM is only, say, 10% greater than one with 32MB.

The Univac and IBM machines that displaced the accounting pool floor in major corporations and the cryptography teams at universities and Military spook operations were significantly higher in value than the generation of Rainbows Sinclairs and Commodores that came into homes two decades later, though they had more power than was available to the US inteligence services in 1960.

Tomcat (12/21/99; 09:23:46MDT - Msg ID:21435)
ORO

Thanks for your detailed reply. I also do not like the term morphocyle and I also agree that ideas about human nature should not replace stronger econmic priciples.

Your analogy of the the Roman mystic sects and the boomers of today was right along the line that I had been thinking. I have alway recognised that mankind has a tendency toward delusion. But the degree of recent delusion has surprised me. I never realized the mankind could go into such high degrees of mass mania as we currently see in the stock market.

It is becoming clear to me that the printing of fiat money and the the war on gold dovetails with this tendency toward mass delusion. Mankind does not want financial truth. Mankind wants easy money (credit) that parallels its delusion and its desire to stray from financial truth. When the bubble bursts, we will witness a swing from a planetary mania to a planetary depression (in the psychological sense).

It is also clear to me that if we are interested in communicating financial truth to the public at large then we need to know more about the public's quest for delusion and avoidance of truth. Is it possible that the general state of mankind is some sort of stupor that can be strongly influenced or even controlled by the media and television. I used to give the average investor more credit; perhaps I need more understanding as to what really makes the average investor hunger for more credit and delusion.

Again, thanks for your reply. I am re-reading the latter half again. It is a great summary of our current state of affairs.

USAGOLD (12/21/99; 09:04:49MDT - Msg ID:21434)
Today's Gold Market Report
MARKET REPORT(12/21/99): Gold is down in early trading. A London
trader quoted yesterday by Reuters agrees with the assessment we made
here several days ago here: "Gold is likely to push higher towards the
end of the year, boosted by millennium bug fears and physical demand in
thin market conditions." Though we continue to see gold buying motivated
by Y2K concerns, many buyers are also voicing concerns about the
over-valued stock market and the underlying downtrend in most stocks not
visible to the general public -- a downtrend that could become part of
the public consciousness in the New Year.

All in all it might not be as quiet a year end has some have forecast.
"As every year, the year-end liquidity will be very tight and
additionally this year, the demand for liquid assets will be even
stronger as a result of Y2K," one Swiss dealer told Reuters.

The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee is meeting today and is
expected to issue a statement on interest rates this afternoon. Reports
we have seen suggest no change in rates but perhaps a change in bias.

That's it for today, fellow goldmeisters. See you here tomorrow.

ORO (12/21/99; 07:50:26MDT - Msg ID:21433)
Tomcat, SteveH - Morphocycles
I do not like the fancy term Morphocycles to denote natural evolutions in human relationships and thinking in context of social development. There are no "fields" like magnetic fields, that are at play. The cycles of social morphology can be described without this badly defined motive factor that shuns a mechanistic explanation.
I did like the idea of putting the barbarians of Rome in the context of a primitive people living in an advanced civilization and, of course, mucking it all up. I would add that by the time the Barbarians took over, Rome was beseiged intellectually with the mysticism of a thousand cultures and sects used by Romans trying to hide from the obvious truth of their well being being a result of evil plunder. I would add that this is being repeated by the boomers of America splintering into a million sects, thinking that they could hide in mysticism the fact that more is to known of their economic well being from the reading of Soldier of Fortune Magazine and Jane's Defense Weekly than from Money Magazine or Kiplinger's.

The economy of Haste and that of the Wait are strongly backed by the Austrian's (von Mises in particular) work on business cycles. But the call of Bethmann on the part debt is playing in these dynamics, does much to negate the non-monetary natural structure of the cycles he points to. The gold standard at the time of free banking limited the extent of money creation by the banks because credit did not expand endlessly. Each few years saw a set of bank runs erradicate excess credit so that the structure of the cycle, though preserved, was left with smaller magnitudes of inflation and deflation. Quite frankly, the periods of deflation were rather good for the bulk of society. The historic past is one in which credit expanded and gold was due. Today, in the official system, the credit is expanded, but only further credit is due ("cash" currency, rather than debt instruments). In the "real" system, that is hidden from us most of the time, the currency credit is indeed backed by gold debt, and it is very much obligated to redemption in specie. This time, one country has put out the debt of most of the world, and has made its debt into the cash of trade settlement. The prices of the economy of haste are very much related to the growth phase of the credit cycle. To a great extent, the growth would have occurred with or without monetary expansions. The artificial monetary expansion of fiat money just raises the level at which prices grow on the upside. And the decisions of monetary authority invariably tend to lower the deflationary effects by pumping cash to monetize bad debt. It is in terms of the gold underlying that fiat system that deflation of prices will appear.
As in the expanded Hathaway Inverted Pyramid model, the part that is true "cash" is all that is left in the system once the "wait" period arrives. That is the gold specie. The fiat itself will be lost because of the fact that its value is derived from a point of arbitrage with the money of the real economy. Today it is the arbitrage through oil that links gold to the fiat money and stabilizes its value.
The disconnect of oil from the fiat dollar is an event much discussed here. Upon the occurrence of the event, it should be a matter of course that the value of fiat money disappears. The demand for it falls through the period of credit contraction that characterizes the "Wait" and so does its value. Prices in fiat money rise in this deflationary environment, while prices in gold fall once the fiat regime within the US - the issuer of fiat money for the rest of the world - falters.

elevator guy (12/21/99; 07:32:11MDT - Msg ID:21432)
@tedw
Kudos to you, sir, for the bravery and motivation you have exhibited with your FOIA request. I reccomend you for knighthood, because you act, more than you talk, and show the most pure type of courage, stemming from an honest heart.

nickel62 (12/21/99; 06:12:15MDT - Msg ID:21431)
They are concerned in this article that the British pound sterling is too strong.
I think this shows a good incite into why the British and the Swiss are all too willing to sell their gold.The way the bereaucrats see the world your best way to goose the economy is to lower the value of your currency and thereby increase your competitive advantage.

Journeyman (12/21/99; 02:44:27MDT - Msg ID:21430)
ESOPS fables - - explained!
Bravo for ORO MID:21429. That's the first post where the real implications of the ESOPs (Employee Stock Options) ploy
made sense to me. Thanx ORO!

One question though: How is a company's business plan to employ what we used to call "built in obsolesence" (with a vengence in software manufacture) in order to sell "new" products and thus stay in business, directly related to ESOPS? Wouldn't the company use "built in obsolesence" anyway, ESOPs or no ESOPs?

Regards,
Journeyman

ORO (12/21/99; 02:11:50MDT - Msg ID:21429)
pdeep - beyond that
The ESOP work I did after someone (SteveH?) posted from Bill Parish's work, shows that government's heavy hand is at play, building structural distortions in the market's operations, including the subsidy of new technology through tax breaks for public corporations issuing stock options instead of paying cash for work.
The accounting mishmash is creating justifications for the markets to invest in money losing operations. It also separates the interests of the company from those of the investors. While the issuance of stock options does not appear to damage the stock holder beyond dilution effects, this assumes that it is the company that the stock holder owns, rather the reality of his owning stock. To the stock holder, giving away 10% of the outstanding shares comes to giving away 10% of the market cap, not 10% of a money losing company selling at 100 multiple to revenue. In the private market the company does not have a chance of survival because it can't pay an average $200000 salary and still turn a profit. In the mad rush for market share, prices are slashed, or kept low, and payment is made by issuing stock options. Because it is profitable to sell products/services at 40% below cost (when adding in the cost of wage payment made with stock options) and the IRS recognizes the fact of this being a loss and kicks in a tax credit to reflect it, you have a combination of malinvestments of the highest magnitude, both for the R&D in the product/service and the efforts of customers to make use of it. This is why the government has to inflate the GDP figures with its absurd "hedonic" calculation.
Because of the unwitting subsidization of company income through ESOPs, the company puts out generation after generation of product, which forces the user to invest in its purchase to stay competitive, well before the original system was mastered. The clueless worker just spends more time guessing what the correct settings, codes and which pull down menus are needed to accomplish the task mastered two iterations ago in the software. The task gets done at a significant delay. Many small businesses recognise that the benefit of working this way are too small, and only update their systems once actual damage is imminent to the business if they don't. I have seen people experienced with word processors spend hours pasting page numbers because they could not figure out where the numbering function was. Keeping up with your equipment and software has become a significant waste of time. Particularly when crossing between products of different vendors.

Click Here to view yesterday's discussion.

Permission to reprint is hereby granted where the USAGOLD name is cited along with our web address, mailing address and phone number. For electronic reproductions, citing the post heading and the http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/ website address as the source is sufficient.

P.O. Box 460009
Denver, Colorado 80246-0009

1-800-869-5115 (US)
00-800-8720-8720 (EU)

303-399-6759 (Fax)

admin@usagold.com

Office Hours
6:00am - 5:00pm
(U.S. Mountain Time)
Monday - Friday

American Numismatic Association
Member since 1975

Industry Council for Tangible Assets

USAGOLD Centennial Precious Metals is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Gold, Silver & Platinum Dealers in Denver CO

Zero Complaints

Thursday February 9
website support: sitemaster@usagold.com
Site Map - Privacy- Disclaimer
The USAGOLD logo and stylized gold coin pile are trademarks of Michael J. Kosares.
© 1997-2012 Michael J. Kosares / USAGOLD All Rights Reserved