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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 2/19/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Waverider (2/19/02; 23:37:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 70433)
Bundesbank nails gold
http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B248256B6500757331?OpenDocument
Snippit:
"Weeks of bullish sentiment and strong fundamentals in the gold market were wiped out in a single stroke last night by president of Germany's Bundesbank Ernst Welteke. The governor said in an interview with Bloomberg that the German central bank would diversify its assets away from gold, a move which analysts say will mercilessly drive down the price of bullion."

Waverider: Would anyone mind, please, to comment on this article. I expected volatility - I've no problem with a rough ride, but I found this article somewhat discouraging. They're talking the possibility of the European banks keeping their thumbs on the price until 2016. Thoughts?

Carl H (2/19/02; 22:20:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 70432)
violation of bidding rules during recent Treasury bill auctions
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020220/bs_nm/finance_treasury_violation_dc_2&cid=580
Snippet:

...
"We have an investigation that deals with fraudulent purchases of Treasury securities from the Department of Treasury's securities auction," said Jim Mackin, a Secret Service spokesman, who declined to discuss the investigation further.

In auctions held the week of Feb. 4, a single bidder submitted noncompetitive tenders for Treasury bills and notes worth $905 million through the TreasuryDirect electronic system but did not pay for them, even though the bids were accepted, officials told reporters.
...


CarlH: This seems really weird. This sounds like enough of a violation to change the prices at the auction. Smells like someone was in derivatives trouble and bluffed their way out. They do not say who the guilty party is. Given the hits that they have taken recently, it would not surprise me if it were JP Morgan Chase.



Gandalf the White (2/19/02; 21:36:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 70431)
The COMEX February '02 Settlement Price GUESSING CONTEST
Sorry Max -- You are confusing Wizards with Genies ! <;-)
UPDATE !!!
===
UNAVAILABLE ( because of prior claim ) ENTRY !!
****$319.9**** Henri (02/17/02; 07:32:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 70239)
Please enter again, Sir Henri !!
===

THE RULES (revisited) --
1) The winner is the closest to the Settlement price of
(GC2G) on the date of Friday the 22th of February.
2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $543.2)
3) "Guesses" shall be enclosed in markers of "stars" *****
so as to be OFFICIAL ! Such as *****$543.2*****
4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady and once that "Guess"
has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !!
FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".
5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock
in Denver strikes HIGH NOON on Thursday, Feb. 21th.
6) A short "WHY" discussion paragraph should accompany your prognostication.
GOOD LUCK ALL !

Max Rabbitz (2/19/02; 21:24:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 70430)
WAKE UP GANDALF
My GCG2 guess is *****291.5*****

After much pointless thought and some strategic delay I retreated to my own brand of technical analysis. I drew two lines on the chart, one line through the one year trend and the other through the one day trend. Where they bisect is my guess. Don't wizards normally give 3 guesses???

Black Blade (2/19/02; 21:01:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 70429)
Educated, Experienced and Out of Unemployment Checks
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/19/nyregion/19JOBL.html?ex=1014786000&en=f51784d1d4ff1ab0&ei=5001&partner=YAHOO

Snippit:

They feel forgotten, frantic, financially drained. They are out-of-work New Yorkers whose unemployment insurance benefits are running out after six months of fruitless job hunting. And many of them belong to a surprising group: experienced, college-educated professionals who worked in Manhattan.


Black Blade: Interesting article. Of course there are always the pimps of Wall Street who bleat that economic recovery is "just around the corner". Yeah, right. Better get prepared.



mikal (2/19/02; 20:32:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 70428)
Re: Volatility
Todays NY POG close down of less than 2% seems volatile compared to typical closes in recent years. But I shake off the old habit of seeing tame markets: A) Most years prior to the late '90's had much greater trading ranges, trading excitement, and interest. B) All respected gold analysts and pundits, including our host, MK, and many Knights, foresaw volatility steadily returning true to its old form, until market equilibrium is established. Rumor driven swings were commonplace, and will play a large part in price setting for at least a couple more years. At least as long as paper markets permit exploitation of POG, such as todays clean up by the shorts of the longs. Bullion bank short covering enmasse today, no doubt another reason for todays "volatility"- but just a drop in the bucket of what is to come.

Black Blade (2/19/02; 20:15:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 70427)
Strong Dollar Tough for Manufacturers
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/020219/strong_dollar_1.html

Strong U.S. Dollar Making It Hard for Manufacturers to Export Their Goods, Trade Group Says

Snippit:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- At least 400,000 U.S. factory workers have lost their jobs since August 2000 because of a sharp drop in U.S. exports largely due to a strong U.S. dollar, according to the country's biggest manufacturers. The group is urging the Bush administration to change its policies on the high-flying U.S. currency.

Black Blade: Strong Dollar = Unemployment. The "Bone Pile" continues to grow. Welcome to the New Depression.


AUtistic (2/19/02; 20:11:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 70426)
BlackBlade#70423
Either by the US press delineation of parts of the quote, or by a differing quote(manipulation) by LeMetropole Cafe, opinions are being developed. One quote seemed VERY bullish on gold, but the main steam quote was VERY bearish! What the HELL good are quotes anymore, when words are twisted & spun like sugar into cotten candy?????

Black Blade (2/19/02; 20:08:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 70425)
Argentines Try To Recover Savings
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/020219/argentina_1.html

Argentine Try Legal Measures to Recover Savings in U.S. Dollars

Snippit:

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) -- Hundreds of Argentines lined up outside the country's main courthouse Tuesday, hoping to recover their frozen savings by filing lawsuits against a government-ordered banking freeze. Argentines with savings in U.S. dollars are racing to legally challenge a government decree that would switch their bank accounts over to devalued pesos -- a move set to take place at the end of the month.

``This is government-sponsored thievery,'' Ernesto Ratier said as he waited outside a federal courthouse to file suit. ``It took me 10 years to build up my $50,000 in savings. I deposited dollars, and I want those dollars.''

Black Blade: Gee, welcome to the Real World. It's a little late now. Should've saved in Gold.


Black Blade (2/19/02; 19:55:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 70424)
Canuck - See My Post #70333

I was afraid of something like this. The POG could not hold above $300/oz. for a solid week. The POG was breaking down and it did not take much to collapse the trading range. I had hoped that Asia would resurrect the POG support level. Instead some buffoon at the ECB thought it would be cute to start a rumor that Germany may sell off Gold reserves, and equally stupid market traders believed him in spite of the WA agreement. We will have to see if the Japanese begin to cover their tails as April 1st approaches and if the Indians will make purchases on the dips. Cheers!

- Black Blade

BTW, locked in profits on HGMCY and GOLD, but not on GG. Still have solid positions in all three - though as far as HGMCY and GOLD it is a free ride from here on out (recovered all my cost basis and then some).

Black Blade (2/19/02; 19:46:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 70423)
Bundesbank comment shakes gold bulls on COMEX
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020219/n19548544_1.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK, Feb 19 (Reuters) - COMEX gold tumbled Tuesday after European Central Bank council member Ernst Welteke raised the prospect of eventual German bullion reserve sales under a 1999 agreement capping European central bank gold selling. Welteke, who is also head of the German Bundesbank was quoted in an interview to run Wednesday on Bloomberg Television saying ``I could imagine that we slowly sell some of this gold and reinvest the revenue in assets that pay an interest.''

The German central bank owns about 3,500 tonnes of gold reserves, according to estimates by Gold Fields Mineral Services. That makes it the second largest official holder behind the United States, with more that 8,000 tonnes. ``The whole move was on the Bundesbank story,'' said a harried floor broker. Volume was a brisk 35,000 contracts. The comment by Welteke was particularly surprising because Germany, along with France and the United States had previously come out against selling, although it recently completed the sale of about 12 tonnes for a Deutschemark gold coin program.


Black Blade: Maybe it's time for a certain ECB member to retire. This dweeb and Dim Wim make quite a pair. It is very possible that the Euro will be a failure and the Gold backing will come in very handy.


Canuck (2/19/02; 19:44:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 70422)
Weird POG action
I had a good stare at the 3-day Kitco curve and don't understand what happened today.

Sunday night, all day Monday (while US on holiday) and all day today gold floats about listlessly within a relatively tight range.

I find it extremely interesting that the action between 08:30 and 11:45 for Monday and Tuesday is identical with the exception that New York was closed Monday. Why would that be? Seems rather odd.

It appears that NY had/has no impact on the price of gold. Does this odd observation co-incide with the fact the NY has perpetual early closing of its gold trading. Is it a co-incidence that these 'gold bullion' desks have migrated to London?

Gold was making a nice run from 10:00 am on both days except that today at 11:45 hell was released, interesting again, that both markets were open, was it London, was it NY or was it the 'third party, red herring' German announcement. Can the announcement be confirmed at 11:45/11:50 as the Kitco graph suggests?


We hear more and more of the non-manipulation discussion. Opinion now suggests it it not 'manipulation' of the gold price, the 'management' of the price of gold is now commonly referred to as 'common sense'. Well sure it is, if gold takes off, everything attached to paper will spontaneously burst into flames. So let's get out a very thick thesauras and 'invent' all kinds of descriptives for what's going on.

I bought a new 'thesauras' today written by Mr. Pissed Off Gold Investor. It describes today's 'management' activity as BULLSHIT. Apparently, a 'tradeable physical commodity', in a decade long term supply/demand deficit that has experienced a genuine technical uptick is subject to a moron or group of morons suddenly realizing, after a week of flat trading, that their position is too long and wish to 'dump' or threat to dump enormus quantities of this item on the market.

Yes, this is common sense all right. Let's see, I hold some gold, it is up 20 bucks and I stand up and declare to the world that "..if you guys continue to make me money I will stop that by flooding the market.."


All right, so they are protecting their paper, fine. These clowns use their 'million' dollars worth of gold to 'battle' huge loses in 'billions' worth of paper. Well, 2 things are going to come out of this, IHMO. When the 'gold well' runs dry, the fight to preserve paper will take on panic proportions. Judging from todays frantic, open and obvious 'management' GOLD DAY draws near. The other option which I beginning to 'smell' is that an entity has been quietly (maybe not so quietly) accumulating the yellow and is in position to liquidate US paper.

Japan's citizens have been hoarding and doesn't it seem bizarre that Japanese government has allowed this to continue. How much gold does anyone really have?

So Mr. Bush is in Tokyo jawing with the man. I wonder if the Japanese PM has told Mr. Bush that the gambit is up?
Now I have never studied Japanese culture but I suspect that after 10 years of smoldering, depreciating paper and thoughts of full-blown fire that the Japanese have prepared. It seems their nature.

I don't know if Mr. Bush has left Japan yet but it seems all too co-incidental that the markets take a whacking the day after. I see the Nikkei down a touch presently, the DOW futures down 160 and it is far too early to tell but maybe Mr. Bush didn't impress upon the PM enough to continue to endorse the American way.

A Canadian (2/19/02; 18:23:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 70421)
Canadian Bull Charging!!!!!!

After hearing of vicious lies being spread by EVIL CABAL I IMMEDIATELY purchased 2 more ounces of physical and increased my position in a south african DREAMHOLE.(decided not to pay the rent.)
Result? Jap markets continue declining, Gold rebounds in OZ! (We canucks can be shrewd manipulators.)

R Powell (2/19/02; 18:21:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 70420)
RobotGuy
You're welcome. Yes, contracts and options can be bought and sold as often as one wishes with the exception of what are called European options which, I believe, can only be exercised on the expiration date. Almost all commodity trading is a paper fiat game margined with fiat and settled with the same.
Ted Butler is constantly complaining that there is more gold and silver sold or bought (the total amounts are always equal) in existing contracts than exists in physical form. This is true of many commodities. There all bets, determined supposedly by the laws of supply and demand, at least in free, unmanipulated markets that is.
What is IMHO true, is that there has been more gold and silver sold over the years that is not presently reflected in the Comex numbers than can be repaid or can be repaid without those staggeringly high fiat numbers we often about. I believe this paper game has evolved to the point of almost totally obscuring the true supply and demand fundamentals of the silver market. This, along with the huge amount of influence exerted by chart following money managers has clowded the issue to the point that industrial silver users may have trouble procuring their raw material before the so-called price determining futures market clearly sees that there is very little silver left.
This, to me, is the biggest question. How much silver, in acceptable, deliverable form still exists in the world. Not coins, jewelry or grandma's tea set but acceptable, ready for delivery silver? Also who holds these ever shrinking supplies and at what price will they part with it??? I can find numbers for yearly production or supply and for useage or demand. These show an ongoing deficit- for years! What no one seems to know is how much was there, at any specific time in the near past, from which to calculate what is left. Some analysts insist the world actually ran out some years ago! That there is no price rationing with an ongoing deficit defies all the common sense and laws of supply and demand, again, the laws that apply to a free market. When Buffet's forecast of the market returning to price equilibrium, what price will it be? What a great puzzle!
Rich

RobotGuy (2/19/02; 16:58:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 70419)
Thank you Rich,
I understand what the others were trying to tell me before. Why, if someone has the money to purchase physical, would they go with paper contracts? Wouldn't it be more comforting to know that you have the metal in your posession somewhere?
When I was about 15, I went to the bank and purchased a number of ounces of silver as my first ever investment. I worked hard for the money, and I imagined what it would be like to have twenty or so ounces of silver all to myself. The woman at the wicket convinced/persuaded me to purchase a document saying I own the silver, but it should stay in safe keeping at Handy and Harmon. I said I would prefer to keep the silver myself, but she didn't think that would be such a wise idea. I remember sitting at home looking at this document and feeling really ripped off.
I will never ever purchase anything like that again for owning physical. If I must, I will pay the riddiculous Canadian surcharges and tax to own the actual stuff. If I owned enough to hurt me if someone confiscated it, I would consider burying it on a remote Island way up north somewhere, I have the exact island in mind, 80% granite.
All these put, call, hold, chase, short, long, dump, scream, buy again things just don't appeal to me.


Thank-you for your post. BTW are you allowed to buy significant quantities of physical and then resell them?

slingshot (2/19/02; 16:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 70418)
RobotGuy Msg# 70410
Ferrengi Rules of Acquisition
First rule: Acquire as much Latium(Gold) for the least
possible price.
Second rule: Get the most for your Latium (Gold).

Funny they never put a Dollar value on Latium? Yet thet were always able to strike a deal.

Slingshot ;)

R Powell (2/19/02; 16:28:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 70417)
RobotGuy
Hunts and Silver
I may be able to offer some information. Currently, a Comex contract of silver is 5,000 ounces for the current month and future ones. If you want to buy, say the December contract, you place an order with your broker to buy (at the market, a certain set limit price, or if the price hits a certain price). Fine, you now hold a long position on 5,000 ounces which you "purchased" at a certain price. Let's say that price was $4.50/ounce. That means 5,000 ounces times $4.50/ounce which equals $22,500. Currently the margin, set by the exchange powers that be, for this "purchase" is $2,350. You need $2,350 in your account to hold this long future contract. Selling the same contract (going short) requires the same margin.
If the price of silver drops, you will have to furnish more margin money. If the POS goes up, you have some paper profit and extra "margin". You can sell your contract at any time before the December deadline or Notice Day. If you sell when POS is higher than $4.50 (for the Dec. contract), you have profit. If you don't offset (sell) by the deadline, you will be obligated to pay the balance of your purchase and make arrangements for delivery of your silver.
However, the margin requirements ($2,350) can be changed at most any time if it is deemed prudent to do so. In very volatile markets the margin requirements are often raised.
What if you had a very large number of contracts (like the Hunts did) and the margin was raised to, say 50% of the original purchase price? Now you need half of $22,500 or $11,250 deposited with your broker to hold each contract.
What if you don't have it? Forced to sell some contracts.
I believe the Hunts were forced to sell but their position was so large that no one could bail them out. There were no buyers. I've read that the most big market crashes result, not from too much selling, but from simply no buying. I've also read that the metals' brokers had orders not to buy, "You can sell, but you can not buy!" Either they knew it was bust time or they were so ordered to make it bust time. Either way, the Hunts cornered the market and the rules were changed and the game was rigged. They couldn't keep their positions without more margin and they couldn't sell into a rigged market.
The Hunts remind me of Prometheous who angered the gods (powers that be) and then paid dearly. Margin requirements are set by discretion and subject to change. If I had the financial power, I'd accumulate quickly but quietly like Buffet did in 1997-8 and when discovered, I'd look innocent and state that I'd bought enough and explain that I was just trying "to establish price equilibrium once again in the silver market." Then, when no one was looking, I'd start buying some more. Quietly, very quietly, a little at a time.
I have a theory that Buffet may have taken possession of his final 40 million ounces in lease form from shorts unable to deliver. That is, the shorts without silver to deliver, asked Buffet to lease back the non-existant metal for a certain length of time. Similar to paying the Visa bill with the Mastercard, the debt still exists but has been postponed.
Whatever games are contrived, IMHO, the industrial demand for silver will result in an end game when no amount of papering can supply non existent metal to those who need physical.
Hope this helps explain somewhat. The workings of commodity contracts can be complicated. Options to buy or sell those contracts at specified prices for certain lengths of time have further complicated the game since the Hunts days.
Physical is a sure thing.
Futures contracts and options are leveraged bets in a questionable game. I love both.
Rich


Cavan Man (2/19/02; 16:11:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 70416)
TowneCrier
Agree with you and would you agree that this signpost along the trail invalidates the guide's running commentary. I'm trying to decide if I should reclassify the "commentary" as malarchy; at least in my own (simple) mind.

Max Rabbitz (2/19/02; 15:55:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 70415)
German Gold Sales
The Germans may indeed be getting ready to sell gold into the market. The question is how much? If you recall London did not fill it's full 25 ton allotment the last couple auctions. They came up 5 tons short each auction. Has someone been pilfering the vaults? Insiders loading up?

To stay within the 400 ton yearly WA limit I calculate the Germans could sell at most only 15 tons this year and none next. It's the announcement that carries the sting (Second largest gold holder thinking of selling!) I'll bet our rascally gold manipulators had this little surprise announcement planned and waiting for some time. Very clever. But smacks of desperation. The abyss must be much closer than it was a few years ago.

I was prepared for the Japanese to announce gold sales/leasing after the Bush trip. I believe they had about 750 tons in reserve a few years ago. Maybe Koizumi said "you sell your gold first."



Beowulf (2/19/02; 15:49:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 70414)
Geez, I need to proof read before hitting the submit button.
-B

Beowulf (2/19/02; 15:47:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 70413)
Contest *****$295.00*****
Gandalf, put me in for the price above. I think there may be a lot of calls that would be in the money if the price were above $296.00 so the bullion banks need to push it down before expiration. We've seen this before evertime Gold shoots above a certain resistance point days before and expiration.

You see how they trotted out the "Bank Sales Might Happen" report. I also heard on CNBC that Barrick selling at spot instead of in the futures is a negative and will push the price down. These people have no shame!!

-Beowulf

TownCrier (2/19/02; 15:39:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 70412)
Owning gold is like leaving Vegas with the shirt still on your back
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APHLFyxSAVS5TLiBT
Only a fool puts all of his chips on the table, yet the concept of real savings is lost on many people.

How's your appetite for gambling these days when so many of the tables are rigged?

----------New York, Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell on concern companies have used accounting tricks to inflate profits. Financial shares, including Citigroup Inc., led the decline as investors speculated default rates will increase.

International Business Machines Corp. dropped after the computer maker said it will provide more detailed financial reporting, responding to criticism it didn't adequately disclose a $300 million asset sale.

IBM ``is foreshadowing what's to come with other companies,'' said Kevin Connellan, head of equity trading at Northern Trust Corp., with $337 billion under management. ``You have to expect a contraction (in stock prices) as companies start to get revalued."

...``There are increasing signs that the situation may actually be deteriorating'' for phone-related companies, said John Haynes, who helps oversee $9.9 billion as a U.S. strategist at Carr Sheppards Crosthwaite in London.

Concern telecommunications companies won't have access to capital markets and may default on debt obligations hurt financial shares, said Mike Palazzi, head of equity trading at CIBC World Markets.

J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. lost $1.02 to $29.03. Shareholders yesterday sued the second-biggest U.S. bank for allegedly breaking securities laws by failing to disclose the amount it might lose because of loans made to failed energy trader Enron.-----------------

Without asking for outside consensus, you know what your shirt is worth (i.e., the one on your back). You know the value of your house, too. And one day, you will also perceive the value for gold in a like manner, even though today its true value remains concealed in the price of its derivatives.

R.

TownCrier (2/19/02; 14:58:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 70411)
Puplava's latest 'Storm Watch' available at the URL below. "Dow 10,000 versus Gold $300"
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/puplava/20020215.html
This week Jim writes much about gold:

-------"In many ways, the Dow has become the key to maintaining consumer confidence. As long as it remains close to the 10,000 level, consumers can hold on to the illusion that we're okay and that better times lie ahead. Keeping the Dow at or close to 10,000 is part of the confidence game that is now being played in the financial markets. If the Dow falls below that level, as it did following the terrorist attacks on the Trade Center in September, then hope dims and can quickly turn into fear.

...due to accounting changes, it is now estimated that companies will write-off close to $1 trillion in impaired assets from their balance sheets this year. The problem for Wall Street and their partners in the financial media is how to maintain the illusion of prosperity going forward. However, the battle for confidence has now decidedly turned in gold's favor.

There are four significant forces that have now aligned themselves in support of gold. These forces are

1] the storm front that is building in the economy and the financial markets around the globe,
2] the battle over hedging in the gold markets by producers and bullion banks,
3] the record level of low interest rates, and
4] the crisis in credibility in the financial system."
-----------

(click URL to see points 1, 2, 3, and 4 laid out in more detail)

RobotGuy (2/19/02; 14:55:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 70410)
Ok, then...Let's suppose...
Let's suppose I have a couple billion kickin' 'round, and I feel gold is at it's cheapest it will be for awhile, does that mean I wouldn't be allowed to sell it again?? What if I decided to transform my bullion into 24k jewellery? Hire a few quality jewellers, buy some wire machines and melting pots, and jack up the price of my jewellery to offset manufacturing costs. Would I be able to sell it then? How do the major jewellers get away with it? How does anybody get away with purchasing any 'commodity' and then reselling for a profit? I'm still dumbfounded as to how these people are put in jail. We've all purchased PM's as an investment security. Does this mean we won't be able to sell our small quantities of PM's in the future, or trade them for goods of equal value? Where's the cutoff? Why doesn't the entire staff of the Royal Canadian Mint get thrown in jail? Do they not have a small effect on the cost of the actual purchased gold maple leaf? Will all the Japanese who are buying sizable quantities of PM's be able to do anything with them in the future? .........I'm so confused!!! We all manipulate the market in seemingly insignificant ways even if it's unintentional.

I thank you gold bugs for attempting to explain these things to me, but I really don't understand!!!

Cavan Man (2/19/02; 14:44:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 70409)
@CB (too)
Sir Knight: You speak the truth (sometimes a hard master eh?). Had a premonition last evening and unloaded all my equities except XCL. Lost a couple of bucks but nothing near the slaughter that ensued later in the trading session. So, at the end of the day as we are wont to say here (a contemporary americanism) I sleep well on physical providing the penultimate leverage to and of SAFETY. Will be buying more of our favorite jr. though! It will likely get ugly but keep up the good wit and sense of humor. AU: C'est bon (mon ami)!

Waverider (2/19/02; 14:43:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 70408)
A Ride on the Wild Side...
DITTO Cobra!

This is why Michael reminded us a few weeks back that the enemy is near...very..very..near. Steadfast!
Waverider

CoBra(too) (2/19/02; 14:27:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 70407)
"Psycho" - Gold is "dead" ? ... Or ask the Japanese --
Please ...

When all auspices are against you -the $ down, the SM and the Bond, what do you do? Stage a counter attack, the last hope you have to stave off a major defeat!

That's right, call upon your friends at the Deutsche Bundesbank and have Wetelke musing about a reasonable sell off of their gold (not being sure it's there or even their's, after the relevation of James Turk's deep storage gold at West Point). Same thread at Georgie's needle of the (in)famous BoE - missing the petit point - at every joint.

Can't believe the German's will fall for the same trap - after all ther'e still some around, remembering the Weimar Repuclic ... and even wheelbarrows of cash depreciated faster ... than AG can ever print it - not even electronically, as it seems.

Hey! - It's Deflation you say! ... and you're right; It is financial asset deflation, as even your home has become collateral for the de(-ath)bt spiral, as never before. The SL crisis 20 years ago, costing you - the tax payer - about a trillion bucks, shucks - it's been a government bail-out, only now we're trillions of the same.

- So what do you think, this all about? A scheme to pass the default "proverbial buck" back to you - the tax payer ... and atop of it you patriotically may pay an extra buck or more for everlasting war against terror, while homeland security is sucking up the final liberty.

I'm probably too young, though I can definitely see the comparison to pre Hitler Deutschland and pray, it may not be total idiocy.

The forces of evil start with the total indebtness of a country, when life styles will be obsolete and dumbing down of the masses are complete.

May god save America and the rest of the world from this "treat"!

Final chance to go gold ... cb2

Cavan Man (2/19/02; 13:37:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 70406)
Washington Agreement
Of all the signatories to the WA, IMHO, Germany (and France) would be the very last to break it.

Black Blade (2/19/02; 13:09:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 70405)
Robotguy - Hunts and Silver

Gimli is right. The changes in the COMEX rules were that the Hunts could only buy but not sell their silver contracts. This resulted in a disaster for the Hunts. The rumor still persists to this day that the COMEX managers were personally enriched as they took short positions just before making these rule changes. Of course the CFTC never investigated the suspicious rules changes as they are nothing but regulatory eunuchs. A more recent example of the dishonest and unethical managers at the NYMEX (and the TOCOM) cheating investors was the Palladium contract defaults last year when it became obvious that the Russians ran out of Palladium. Nothing really changes.

- Black Blade


Black Blade (2/19/02; 12:57:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 70404)
When the Dollar Bubble Bursts
http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/archive.asp?doc={9258FBF5-8443-4DA3-A7F5-C7DD0DCC5F0E}&width=640&height=480&agt=explorer&ver=4&svr=4

Snippit:

The dollar has probably entered the last stage of its seven-year bull run. The world's leading currency has not been as overvalued as it is now since 1985. And just as in the equity markets, bubbles in the currency markets tend to burst eventually.

Black Blade: A German perspective on the US Dollar. Though this article pushes for the Euro as an alternative - just think "Gold".

Oh yeah, BTW - even with the decline in the POG today, right now the US Dollar is still only worth 0.00341 ounces of Gold. Hmmm...


Cavan Man (2/19/02; 12:57:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 70403)
ALWAYS consider sources and motivations
Pentagon Readies Efforts to Sway Sentiment Abroad
Tue Feb 19, 9:00 AM ET
By JAMES DAO and ERIC SCHMITT The New York Times

WASHINGTON, Feb. 18 The Pentagon is developing plans to provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign media organizations as part of a new effort to influence public sentiment and policy makers in both friendly and unfriendly countries, military officials said.



Gimli_ (02/19/02; 12:57:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 70402)
The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html
The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
Brian Trumbore
President/Editor, StocksandNews.com

In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in '79, the price was about $5. Late '79 / early '80 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market.

One other experience in the silver bubble worth noting, according to author Edward Chancellor ("Devil Take the Hindmost"), is the experience of an official at the Peruvian Ministry of Commerce, employed to hedge his country's silver production, who lost $80 million by illicitly selling silver short. Said Chancellor, "Although a relatively small sum for a sovereign nation, it was an omen: the 'rogue trader' had appeared on the modern financial scene."

The stock market had its own troubles during the rise and fall of silver. The Dow Jones peaked on February 13, 1980 at 903.84. The day of the collapse, March 27th, the Dow closed at 759.98, a decline of 16% in just 6 weeks. [However, intraday, the loss between the 2/13 high of 918.17 and the 3/27 intraday low of 729.95 was actually 20%.]

For many traders the collapse in silver was the final straw for a stock market already under siege from worries as diverse as the Iranian hostage crisis, the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and soaring interest rates. [The consumer price index climbed at a 13% rate for 1979. The prime lending rate hit 22% in early 1980]. But by the year's end, the whole decline was almost forgotten. The Dow ended the year at 963.99, thanks in large part to the euphoria over the election of Ronald Reagan.

Cavan Man (02/19/02; 12:53:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 70401)
Bundesbank Announcement
Good news goldmeisters!
George is right (as usual). The Bundesbank cannot act independently and in fact, sales are pre-programmed for them by the WA. Each signatory has an allotment within the 2000 ton bogey. Note in the Bloomberg article that the gentleman said the WA would be renewed! This tells me how desperate the situation has become. This is an additional buying opportunity. The "system" must be close to the point of failure. That's the alarm ringing in the central banks; not in my office.

sector (02/19/02; 12:51:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 70400)
@BlackBlade..Your are Correct about watching the Japanese...
...the long bond is down...that says the Japanese are selling US Treasuries in the aftermath of yet another non-event "Summit".

The judgements of a few million elderly Japanese mothers and grandmothers are poised to crush the pretend gold masters at the US Treasury, BOE and Bundesbank...they have seen their day. There are no more escape routes.

These fiscally conservative ladies know a fake LDP reformer when they see one. Their hero, Tanaka was fired by Koizumi because she spoke her mind. They know all too well that their life savings are at risk...in the hands of bureaucrats and policy that favors continued corruption.

Wagering against THAT underlying dynamic is just plain foolish.

RobotGuy (02/19/02; 12:47:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 70399)
Black Blade & Gimli - - - I don't understand.
What exactly are the rules to buying stuff? You can only purchase so much and then you're not allowed to sell anything? Like I said before, I don't have the historical understanding that you all have, just a very simplistic manner of logic.
Wouldn't it be in a country's best interest to have one of their own citizens dominate any market for that matter? Isn't this how you achieve power over other countries? Create demand from your country and watch the cash flow in?
I really don't understand this stuff.

Black Blade (02/19/02; 12:46:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 70398)
The Betrayed Investor
http://businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_08/b3771001.htm

Snippit:

Americans bought into the idea that stocks could only make them richer. Then the market bubble burst -- and then came Enron

It's 2 a.m., and Jim Tucci is staring wide-eyed at the ceiling--another sleepless night. Instead of counting sheep, he's anxiously tallying up how much he has lost in the stock market. Half of his $400,000 nest egg, he figures, has evaporated in just two years. Forget the retirement property on the Gulf Coast. Forget the long-planned trip to Italy with his wife.

Black Blade: Interesting article, though some of the data is suspect such as the S&P 500 PE Ratio calculated at 25. Wrong! - The S&P pe ratio is calculated as "operating earnings" - Not NET EARNINGS! Net earnings are at a PE ratio of about 62 (as of Friday). Other than that the article does a good job describing exactly what I have been droning on about here for quite some time. Note all the $Trillions of life savings of Americans that is vaporized - Gone - "Gone to Money Heaven".

Get out of debt now, get Gold and Silver portfolio insurance, have enough cash on hand for several months expenses, get a few months worth of food and basic goods stored away.


USAGOLD (02/19/02; 12:33:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 70397)
Deja Vu
I might add that as we deal with this deja vu all over again, that the next Bank of England auction will be the last. So this appears to be a convenience. The leftist governments in Europe needed to pull a rabbit out of the hat. This is the best they could do -- replete with confusion over who the German people can blame. In the article there is already vacillation over whether this is Bundesbank Weleteke's idea or Finance Minister Weichel's.

Sound familiar, my fellow goldmeisters?

Black Blade (02/19/02; 12:32:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 70396)
Nikkei down 2.4% under banks' weight
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B7638DB15%2DF18B%2D426B%2DB76B%2DDAD08D4F8A5E%7D&siteid=mktw


U.S.-Japan summit outcome disappoints investors

Snippit:

TOKYO (CBS.MW) -- Tokyo's leading Nikkei index sank 2.4 percent Tuesday after U.S.-Japan summit talks failed to produce concrete policy steps aimed at shoring up the Japanese economy. Adding to the market's gloom, Finance Minister Masajuro Shiokawa said he saw no need to inject public funds into the nation's debt-ridden banks at the moment. This helped fuel selling in bank shares, which enjoyed steady gains in recent sessions on hopes for a government-supported injection of capital.


Black Blade: As the deadline approaches for the removal of deposit insurance at Japanese banks, we could see more of a move toward Gold. Also, as the POG falls, then both Japanese and Indians will likely return to Gold in a big way. The insolvent Japanese banks are toast without government intervention. There simply is no choice, and even then they will likely fail.


Gimli_ (02/19/02; 12:28:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 70395)
I guess RobotGuy Never heard of the Hunt Brothers... :-((
RobotGuy: "Well since silver is so cheap, and apparently more rare according to some in this forum, why wouldn't a rich dude dominate the silver market? Buy it all up and refuse to sell. Wait for the price to go up substantially and sell a little at a time. I guess my mode of thinking isn't complicated enough for these matters."

The Hunt Brothers were buying us silver in the late 70s and the price got over $50/ounce. Then the powers that be drubbed up racketeering charges or some such and put them in jail....

Monty Python: "Nobody escapes from the Spanish Inquisition."

USAGOLD (02/19/02; 12:24:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 70394)
The Bloomberg article
http://www.usagold.com/GermanNightmare.html
The Bloomberg article on Bundesbank gold sales is available at our News Feed at the Daily Market Report page.

A Case of Eddie Georgitis -- as bad as any I've seen.

Maybe Bundesbank needs to do a little study on what happened to the Bank of England once it sold gold to get a "return" on their reserves. Not a pretty picture -- in fact it's an embarassment to the British people. But we all know that this isn't the real reason why Welteke wants to sell gold. I would take a look at German bullion banks and see what kind of exposure they have in terms of gold liabilities. I think you will find the real reasons lie therein We're more than two years away from any potential gold sales at the Bundesbank and a lot of water will go under the bridge between now and then -- including a possible collapse of the world financial structure. One thing Welteke ought to take into consideration is what kind of return he would get on the dollar after inflation (and or depreciation against the euro) -- but he's a central banker, and shouldn't have to be lectured by the gold community on the concept of real rate of return. He's supposed to understand these things better than the rest of us. This move by Bundesbank is political like all gold sales are political. So what's really behind it? Nobody's going to buy that they are doing it for the return.

Further, how will the German people react to their gold reserves disappearing in the bullion banking black hole?

One caution to the German people:

1923.

A visit to our Gilded Opinion section for a trek through "The Nightmare German Inflation" might be salutary, not just for Mr. Welteke but for all concerned.



Black Blade (02/19/02; 12:23:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 70393)
Robotguy

The reason the Big Boys don't want to play the PM game in a big way is quite simple. The NYMEX would just screw them over just like they did the Hunts. They learned a lesson that you don't mess with the pit bulls in the government and at the NYMEX. If you have the right connections you just might play it like Warren Buffett until exposed. Then sit quiet. Otherwise it just doesn't pay to break from the pack.

- Black Blade


Black Blade (02/19/02; 12:17:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 70392)
Time is running out for many U.S. jobless
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/02/19/BU145280.DTL&type=business

Snippit:

More laid-off Americans will exhaust their unemployment benefits in the first six months of 2002 than in any other year since the recession of the early 1990s unless Congress extends the benefits. Passage of a 13-week extension has been delayed, though, and the number of U.S. workers exhausting jobless benefits could grow at a rate of more than 80,000 a week, on average, according to a study by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in Washington, D.C.


Black Blade: As the unemployed run out of benefits the government statistics tracking arm, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) no longer considers them unemployed. Add to this phoney baloney statistical filters such as "seasonality" and you soon see through this deception. The "Bone Pile" continues to grow while the true unemployment figure is much closer to 8% to 10%, and growing. This New Depression will continue to get much worse especially when Japan's insolvent bank crashes taking the World's banking system with it. Maybe this time it won't be Arkys and Okies fleeing to California to pick peaches and lettuce, but Californians and New Yorkers hitting the road to scavenge for a meal here and there, and who knows maybe stealing chickens and watermelons from farmers in Arkansas and Oklahoma.


RobotGuy (02/19/02; 12:17:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 70391)
Demand
Doesn't seem to be much demand in North America these days. London screws with the POG and we're playing dormant. I guess the folks who could make a difference don't feel like getting involved in these price playing games. I wish I had enough money to play like these big boys do. Buy a bunch, wait for the lemmings to catch up and sell a bit. Kinda like trading stocks. Why dont some of these multi- billionaires want to get into PMs? Too risky? I guess it would take quite a lump of fiat to dominate the PM market. Well since silver is so cheap, and apparently more rare according to some in this forum, why wouldn't a rich dude dominate the silver market? Buy it all up and refuse to sell. Wait for the price to go up substantially and sell a little at a time. I guess my mode of thinking isn't complicated enough for these matters.

ausome (2/19/02; 12:02:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 70390)
Competition
***$288.80***
I have not posted for such a long time. I could not resist entering. With Gold mine buy backs I don't see gold going to much lower by Friday. Strong demand out of Japan will keep it well bid for months to come. The stock market is definitely in bear mode giving investors plenty to think about when it comes to throwing money at stocks. The temporary dip is fine by me as it gives me more time to buy low.

Mr Gresham (2/19/02; 11:51:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 70389)
Knallgold, Gandalf
Those percentages are poorly explained, IMO, but the column they are under is "Q4 net chargeoffs", and probably not the column to the left ("increase"), but I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around the 144% figure (unless there is some bookkeeping entry known as "anti-chargeoffs" ;) ).

I think Gandalf is right to look at the % of equity hit in the "remaining exposure" column. In most non-performing loan situations, I tend to figure them for the "haircut" mode, where perhaps 20-50% of the loan is gone, not 100% because somebody still has an incentive to work it out at some level. But in the cases of Enron and Argentina, there is no incentive for anyone to pay anything toward these, since they've been so publicly zeroed out already.

POG suppression watch: If you were trying to figure strategies with fewer available resources remaining (JPM impaired), you would go for less-frequent interventions, and not trying to take it back to the 280 level (too expensive!), but hoping to shake confidence by making 300 seem too difficult to surmount. Create a trading range in the 290s. Plan B. Concede some yardage. Play for time, not price.

Someday to find out Bundesbank's role -- are they double agents? "The Bank Who Came in From the Cold"? "(Currency) Funeral in Berlin"? How many layers of intrigue? Within ECB (not necessarily because of rumors such as today attached to one bank) are there national economic factions gaming or "arbitraging" the Euro to their own slight advantage? Wouldn't be politics without it!

Knallgold (2/19/02; 11:13:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 70388)
Mr.G,Gandalf
This numbers imply Fleet is bankrupt,right?

Gandalf the White (2/19/02; 11:00:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 70387)
Looking at Mr. Gresham's data link ---
NOTE the potential "Hit" from ENRON and Argentina that FleetBoston Financial Corporation still HAS !!
($millions) (% of Equity)
6,100 34.64
===
<;-(

Gandalf the White (2/19/02; 10:51:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 70386)
WOWSERS !
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/largest/chart2.html

Mr Gresham (2/19/02; 10:38:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 70384)
Bank write-offs & exposure
====
VERY INTERESTING data SIR Gresham!!!
The Hobbits say "Thanks for the data source."
<;-)


MarkeTalk (2/19/02; 10:43:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 70385)
Rumor--Bundesbank to sell gold
Today's sharp drop in the gold price at mid-morning was triggered by a strategically placed rumor that the Bundesbank would not rule out sales of gold bullion. The market dropped $6.00/ounce in about 10 minutes. After discussion with Buena Fe and GATA chairman, Bill Murphy, it appears that this announcement is a last-ditch effort to suppress gold while bonds, stock market and the US dollar are all falling again. This surprise announcement is simply a red herring because the Bundesbank cannot act independently of the European Central Bank in matters relating to gold due to the Washington Agreement.

I think today offers a buying opportunity for those people who had been concerned that the gold price had gotten away from them. The rallying cry is "Buy the dips"!

Mr Gresham (2/19/02; 10:38:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 70384)
Bank write-offs & exposure
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/largest/chart2.html
From the FDIC, too. Reassuring, or what?

Brett Woods (2/19/02; 10:25:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 70383)
London closing dump
RobotGuy, two only makes coincidence, but it would seem that it has nothing to do with triple witch or holidays but rather is the sale of an amount expected to overwhelm buyers and made at the critical time necessary to influence the PM fix. I suppose there is an old boys privilege dating back to the Rothschild era and on the face of it, among peers, it would seem acceptable. But nowadays it is not. Reginald Howe is likely 100% correct in the allegations he makes with his law suit.

Gandalf the White (2/19/02; 10:22:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 70382)
The COMEX February '02 Settlement Price GUESSING CONTEST
YES Grubstaker ! LOTS of room at your level !!
UPDATE !!!

THE RULES (revisited) --
1) The winner is the closest to the Settlement price of
(GC2G) on the date of Friday the 22th of February.
2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $543.2)
3) "Guesses" shall be enclosed in markers of "stars" *****
so as to be OFFICIAL ! Such as *****$543.2*****
4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady and once that "Guess"
has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !!
FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".
5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock
in Denver strikes HIGH NOON on Thursday, Feb. 21th.
6) A short "WHY" discussion paragraph should accompany your prognostication.
GOOD LUCK ALL !
----
UNAVAILABLE ( because of prior claim ) ENTRY !!

****$319.9**** Henri (02/17/02; 07:32:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 70239)
Please enter again, Sir Henri !!


===
PROGRESS REPORT !!
GUESSES in order of DECENDING Value

****$8,752.0**** The Invisible Hand (2/18/02; 01:46:17MT msg#: 70296
****$5,126.0**** R Powell (02/18/02; 13:19:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 70320

****$1,500.0**** LimitUp (02/14/02; 23:41:07MT msg#: 70090

****$929.0**** golden rule (02/14/02; 18:10:01MT msg#: 70049

****$448.4**** techbull.... (02/16/02; 22:30:45MT msg#: 70224

****$437.5**** Econoclast (02/14/02; 19:05:57MT msg#: 70063

****$379.0**** sstins (02/14/02; 14:34:25MT msg#: 70015

****$352.2**** goldquest (02/14/02; 13:52:51MT msg#: 70010

****$339.0**** rsjacksr (02/15/02; 20:15:47MT msg#: 70164

****$333.3**** Guided (02/16/02; 14:33:23MT msg#: 70206

****$329.1****.Clint H (2/15/02; 09:40:17MT msg#: 70111
****$329.0**** ROSEBUD99 (2/15/02; 09:32:21MT msg#: 70110

****$327.6**** RobotGuy (2/15/02; 08:09:30MT msg#: 70104

****$324.1**** auenboy (02/17/02; 19:31:09MT msg#: 70281

****$320.4**** Rock (02/18/02; 16:33:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 70328

****$320.2**** Tommy P (02/16/02; 13:33:42MT msg#: 70201

****$319.9**** Pizz (02/14/02; 22:52:31MT msg#: 70084
****$319.8**** Shermag (02/17/02; 18:38:33MT msg#: 70278

****$319.2**** MidEastGold (2/15/02; 07:05:36MT msg#: 70102

****$318.2**** A Canadian (02/14/02; 14:36:41MT msg#: 70016

****$317.9**** wiley (02/14/02; 20:41:56MT msg#: 70076

****$316.3**** slingshot (02/14/02; 14:22:58MT msg#: 70012

****$315.3**** CoBra(too) (02/17/02; 17:57:15MT msg#: 70277

****$315.0**** neer-do-well (02/16/02; 21:14:28MT msg#: 70217

****$314.0**** nickel62 (2/19/02; 08:47:16MT msg#: 70377

****$313.5**** KTC (02/17/02; 22:25:55MT msg#: 70288)

****$313.4**** pdeep (02/18/02; 16:25:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 70326

****$312.5**** darkhorse (02/14/02; 13:35:52MT msg#: 70009

****$312.1**** Voyager (2/15/02; 12:50:14MT msg#: 70138

****$310.0**** Boxman (02/15/02; 18:52:21MT msg#: 70160

****$309.7**** Hektor (02/16/02; 14:31:01MT msg#: 70205

****$309.5**** Siochain (02/14/02; 20:07:10MT msg#: 70070

****$308.7**** law (02/14/02; 22:17:01MT msg#: 70080

****$308.1**** goldenpeace (02/14/02; 13:22:48MT msg#: 70008

****$307.9**** Jon (2/15/02; 13:02:47MT msg#: 70141

****$307.7**** Waverider (02/14/02; 15:13:23MT msg#: 70021

****$306.1**** EagleOne (02/14/02; 14:27:04MT msg#: 70014

****$305.4**** Achilles (2/15/02; 05:25:21MT msg#: 70099

****$305.0**** Broken Tee (2/15/02; 14:32:54MT msg#: 70143

****$304.7**** Angel (02/17/02; 19:55:18MT msg#: 70282

****$304.5**** Joepmbull (02/18/02; 11:39:21MT msg#: 70318
****$304.4**** Solomon Weaver (02/16/02; 10:53:18MT msg#: 70190

****$304.2**** balzac (02/14/02; 17:34:42MT msg#: 70041

****$303.8**** uponroof (02/14/02; 14:24:30MT msg#: 70013

****$303.3**** AUtistic (02/17/02; 07:13:15MT msg#: 70236

****$303.1**** Operative (2/16/02; 03:47:42MT msg#: 70184

****$302.5**** Canuck Gold (02/14/02; 15:09:18MT msg#: 70019

****$302.3**** Mythical (02/14/02; 21:42:32MT msg#: 70079

****$301.9**** goldroadlx7 (02/16/02; 12:39:41MT msg#: 70195

****$301.0**** Christian (02/17/02; 06:47:49MT msg#: 70235

****$300.1**** VanRip (02/14/02; 18:25:51MT msg#: 70054

****$299.9**** Artie Farkle (2/15/02; 02:08:09MT msg#: 70097

****$299.0**** Carl H (02/14/02; 14:20:24MT msg#: 70011

****$298.7**** Truthcaster (02/14/02; 18:25:45MT msg#: 70053

****$298.4**** Topaz (02/14/02; 23:39:21MT msg#: 70089

****$297.9**** Knallgold (2/15/02; 07:47:09MT msg#: 70103

****$297.4**** auric (02/18/02; 22:11:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 70360

****$296.7**** The CoinGuy (02/14/02; 17:14:39MT msg#: 70037

****$296.4**** Au-some (2/19/02; 07:22:18MT msg#: 70373

****$295.6**** coco (02/18/02; 16:29:13MT msg#: 70327
.
****$294.5**** turkey hunter (02/18/02; 15:05:26MT msg#: 70322

****$293.0**** Flatlander (02/17/02; 10:39:58MT msg#: 70249

****$292.8**** Trapper (02/14/02; 19:44:13MT msg#: 70067

****$292.4**** Yellow Jacket (02/18/02; 19:32:27MT msg#: 70341

****$292.0**** Grubstaker (02/14/02; 22:50:18MT msg#: 70083
****$291.9**** silvercollector (02/15/02; 16:41:09MT msg#: 70149

****$290.9**** kludge (02/18/02; 13:15:21MT msg#: 70319

****$290.4**** John Doe (02/17/02; 23:06:16MT msg#: 70289

****$290.0**** HOOSIER GOLDBUG (02/14/02; 15:50:12MT msg#: 70031
****$289.9**** miner49er (02/14/02; 15:30:03MT msg#: 70026

****$284.0**** OpalBill (02/18/02; 18:58:30MT msg#: 70335

****$274.9**** Frosty (02/14/02; 18:55:58MT msg#: 70060
====
Looks as if the NY boys like to show just whom has control of the PAPER gold.
<;-(



RobotGuy (2/19/02; 10:20:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 70381)
London [ : o ]
I suppose they feel they must dump, silly monkeys. If you thought your ounce of gold would be worth $350 next week, would you sell it for $290 this week?

RobotGuy (2/19/02; 10:12:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 70380)
Ahhhhrrrrgggg!!
What's going on with POG???

Waverider (2/19/02; 09:54:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 70379)
US stocks tumble as accounting overshadows data
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT36762ATXC&live=true&tagid=ZZZ8P2KD20C
Snippit:
"Strong economic data did little to encourage stock-buying on Wall Street on Tuesday morning. After a long three-day weekend, investors remained preoccupied about potential corporate accounting irregularities.

An hour into the session the Dow Jones Industrial Average was 95.76 lower at 9,807.28, and the S&P 500 was off 13.76 at 1,090.42. The Nasdaq Composite fared worse falling 34.20 - or 1.9 per cent - to 1,771.00.

Boeing fell 2.2 per cent to $43.90, and Walt Disney, which held a large shareholder meeting on Tuesday morning to discuss the state of its corporate health, was off 1.2 per cent at $23.61. Citigroup fell 1.6 per cent to $43.42 and JP Morgan Chase was off 1.7 per cent at $29.55 as fears over their possible lending to insolvent operations intensified."

Waverider: The TSE is down around 100 or 1.3%, with only the Gold sub-index up almost 3%. Spartacus - thanks for that fabulous link. Cheers!

Spartacus (2/19/02; 09:36:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 70378)
Library
http://www.econlib.org/library/CEETitles.html

-The Library of economics and Liberty-

Austrian Economics, Bonds, Federal Reserve System, Gold Standard, Hyperinflation and more.

nickel62 (2/19/02; 08:47:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 70377)
I guess I better c hange that to another number since it appears my guess has already been made.....
*****$314*****

nickel62 (2/19/02; 08:45:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 70376)
Gold Contest prediction!
*****$307.75*****

USAGOLD Market Commentary (2/19/02; 08:08:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 70375)
Gold Starts Week Quietly; Newmont Juggernaut Nears Merger Completion
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Interstate (2/19/02; 07:30:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 70374)
ROSEBUD99, Rap, John Doe

Thank you for your research into sea gold. I just took my wife's word about it because she NEVER makes frivolous remarks about her work. I brought it up again this morning at breakfast and she said there are also nuggets on the ocean floor that have flowed in from rivers and streams, so some companies are working on cost effective ways to dredge the bottom (after the geo's have found a rich bed.) She does not work with metals, so is just going on her own knowdge.
Thank you for your research. I'm happy that I could stir some interest in a subject. My area would not create enthusiasm - Philosophy professor.
Have a good day, Interstate

Au-some (2/19/02; 07:22:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 70373)
(No Subject)
*****$296.4*****
One step back to $296.40, then two steps forward to...

Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD (2/19/02; 04:41:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 70372)
It's not exactly Olympic Gold, but you've worked hard and you, too, can be a proud owner
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