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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/19/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Black Blade (9/19/01; 23:02:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 61988)
Wall St. Execs Say Stocks Nearing Bottom
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_stocks_bottom_dc_1.html

Snippit:

``My feeling is we are getting very close to a major market bottom. We tried today. In a way we tried on Monday, but we are not quite there yet,'' said Barton Biggs, chief market strategist at Morgan Stanley, in an interview on CNBC.

Black Blade: You do have to give this "Budding Rocket Scientist" credit for stating the obvious. Yes the market is getting closer to the "Bottom." The Market indices are closer to ZERO than yesterday, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before, …. The floor is at Zero of course. You just can't get much lower than that. Julian Robertson of the defunct Tiger Hedge Fund was also a guest - but so what, he is senile as they come - it was truly pathetic to see this tired incoherent shell of a man (either that or he was smashed).


Black Blade (9/19/01; 22:49:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61987)
Asia Solid Red
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Asian markets in the Red - again.

Black Blade (9/19/01; 22:42:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61986)
RE: Solomon Weaver - Buried WTC Vault

Maybe Geraldo Rivera should be there with cameras when the vault is reached. Then they could open it up on national TV just like when he did a special a few years ago on Al Capone's buried vault. Wouldn't it be quite revealing if it was found to be empty just like Al's vault? Hmmm…

Paper trading without physical metal behind it. Now that would be quite revealing.

Cheers!

- Black Blade


Solomon Weaver (9/19/01; 21:55:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61985)
Encumbered Silver
CoBra(too) (9/19/01; 12:44:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61945)
Nymex Implements New Rules on Metal Deliveries ...
Wednesday September 19, 3:30 AM

Nymex Implements New Procedures For Metals Deliveries
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The destruction of warrants (PAPER LOST IN THE WIND) for precious metals deliveries issued by licensed depositories and the inaccessibility to metals stored under the razed World Trade Center has prompted the New York Mercantile Exchange to implement new procedures and a temporary (AT LEAST FOR SEVERAL MONTHS UNTIL THE VAULT IS OPERATIONAL AGAIN) emergency rule, the exchange announced Tuesday.
The bars of gold, silver, platinum and palladium are stored at ScotiaMocatta Depository Corporation located in a vault beneath 4 World Trade Center and may not be available until the debris (MASSIVE QUANTITIES OF STEEL GIRDERS....STRONGER THAN PRISON BARS AND DANGEROUS TO MOVE WITH CRANES) from last week's collapse has been cleared (AND THE METAL HAS BEEN MOVED TO A NEW VAULT). Its status as a viable depository (MATERIAL FOR IMMEDIATE DELIVERY) is currently unknown (IT "IS" KNOWN THAT IT IS CURRENTLY NOT VIABLE...SO THIS MEANS THAT IT IS UNCERTAIN IF AND WHEN IT WILL RETURN TO VIABILITY), Nymex noted.

ScotiaMocatta is the metals-trading arm of the Bank of Nova Scotia (T.BNS) AND THEY PUT THEIR VAULT IN NEW YORK SINCE THAT IS WHERE THE ACTION IS.

Nymex has approved replacing the lost warrants with new warrants issued by an Exchange-licensed depository , as long as the chain of custody can be documented, an affidavit of loss is prepared by the warrant holder and the clearing member of the original warrant guarantees the validity of the chain of custody (AS LONG AS HIS PAPER CHAIN IS INTACT...AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO DENY THE OWNERSHIP OF THE WARRANT).

The chain of custody must be documented either by the street invoice issued by the clearing house, the records of the depository proving the original warrant was issued, transfer letters issued by the clearing house, or a photocopy of the original warrant.

If a chain of custody can't be verified by documents from the licensed depository, the clearing member or the Exchange clearing house, the holder of the warrant must obtain an open penalty indemnity bond for the lost or stolen instrument, Nymex said.

If a clearing member taking delivery is provided a warrant from the ScotiaMocatta Licensed Depository and refuses to accept transfer of title of metal located there, that member "may require that the clearing member making delivery provide either a warrant from another Exchange licensed depository, or physical metal, meeting the specifications of the applicable metal contract, in a mutually agreed upon location," in accordance with certain guidelines. (HERE THE AVENUE IS OPEN THAT A BUYER MAY REFUSE TO ACCEPT A WARRANT ON THE BURIED MATERIAL.)

Those guidelines stipulate that, if agreed to by the member accepting delivery, the clearing member making delivery will execute an alternative notice of intention to deliver on the form prescribed by Nymex and then deliver a completed, executed copy of the intention to deliver to the Exchange. That delivery will release the clearing members and the Exchange from their respective obligations under the Exchange contracts.

Clearing members, in executing this notice, "shall indemnify the Exchange against any liability, cost, or expense it may incur for any reason as a result of the execution, delivery or performance of such contracts or such agreement, or any breach thereof or default thereunder," Nymex's published release said. The Exchange will also be required to return all margin money held for each clearing member's account to the appropriate clearing member upon receiving the alternative notice of intention to deliver.

...................
SOLOMON:

These new rules seem to touch something I was asking a few nights ago.

Even though the metal in the "encumbered" vault is bars of .999 refined silver, it is now buried under a large amount of rubble...and in principle must be reclassified as silver (gold,etc) which must be recovered by expense. Not unlike a mining company values in ground reserves. So, anyone who sees with both eyes must understand that this metal is encumbered and cannot trade AT PAR with metal available for delivery from other vaults.

The NYMEX is worthy enough to clarify the rules on documentation of title, since many offices may have lost physical paper copies of warrants. But, the attempt to make those warrants trade AT PAR with alternative warrants or metal from other sources is a deception, because it does not establish a discounting method.....in truth, until the vault is open, the NYMEX is obligated to inform the public that there is a risk of owning warrants on encumbered metal.

The story is certainly the same in Gold, but the encumbered silver is a larger portion of the vault silver worldwide. GATA would be well advised to look into the way these rules are being formulated and see WHO benefits and who loses.

POOR OLD SOLOMON

turkey hunter (9/19/01; 21:15:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61984)
Bob Shultz's IRS Hearings set for September 25, 26
http://www.eco.freedom.org/el/20010902/tax.shtml
However the Sept. date might be put off until Oct. because of the WTC disaster.

Snippet:
After decades of obfuscation, avoidance, creative restructuring and 'simplification' of the 9500-page tax code, the desired substantive exchange with experts is about to occur. The Sovereign Citizens have exercised their Right to petition and the government is responding.

Schulz says "It's of no coincidence that President Bush revealed in this week's New York Times that the government has begun to publicly discuss alternative tax systems, including disposal of the entire tax code. The internet and talk radio have facilitated detailed research, documentation and discussion of these charges across the nation. If our income tax system is publicly confirmed to be without force of law upon the People, and is truly as 'voluntary' as the IRS so often advertises, it is highly likely that the government may move quickly to implement a replacement tax such as a national sales tax.

Turkey Hunter: to good to be true. The guberment really must be broke, and is looking for ways to get more money!! October might be a bad month for the gubernment.


Solomon Weaver (9/19/01; 21:02:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61983)
Rich...your new career
Perhaps some reading this might offer some thoughts or experiences about putting economic knowledge to work making money. I love the learning. Nothing immoral about making a buck with the brain (IMHO) as long as it does no harm to others, no?
. .. . . ... . . .
Rich

A little formal training in some of the standard ways of thinking....rolled together with the "contrarian spirit" we have here...and you will make an excellent investment advisor....blue collar trusts blue collar.

POS

Galearis (9/19/01; 20:54:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61982)
Must see graphs on silver!!
http://www.sharelynx.net/Papers/SilverStocks.htm
I recommend everyone take a long hard peek at this page!

G.

auspec (9/19/01; 20:37:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61981)
AEL
Thank you for BW's newsletter, will digest and respond as able. Maybe all the suicidal derivatives were/are meant merely to buy some time until something{?} is ready to be unloaded {or loaded} upon the great unwashed???? Pretty funny, actually, that JPM/C is 'the Government's Bank, no? Says a lot for our Government, who and how it is run.
Regards,
auspec

Black Blade (9/19/01; 20:07:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61980)
Forbes Body Count
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/30/layoffs.html

Add to this an additional 20,000 nonessential "Bags of Bones" at United Airlines that will be cast upon the "Bone Pile." It still looks "GRIM." I don't see how the Market Indices can go higher in light of almost every concievable negative piece of news coming to light and none - repeat none that is positive. Several companies are now "Pre-Warning" their corporate earnings warnings. Looks to get extremely ugly on Wall Street.

Netking (9/19/01; 19:50:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61979)
KarenSue
Karen(61972)Howdy Karen, Sir Auspec gives some good insight in his post too.

Karen, Given that the Ag "market" is a collective of buying & selling entities with the move going in the direction on the dominant volume (of buyers/sellers orders)we can say some folks in US are covering themselves yes.

We saw a while back this happening in the UK (where Warren B. bought his stash for BK)and wondered if some large stands in the market were taking place on a geographical basis, however these were only to be knocked back in the next time zones trading reflecting it to be selective.

Things are getting interesting now, it's "cover the shirt on your back time" for the large players and physical silver has almost run out to make things worse. The contingent liability of the short sold & leased positions are like (as Ted says)a neutron bomb on top of an atomic bomb waiting to go off . . . a time when the power is in the hands of those who "own the metal".
- regards Murray

Leigh (9/19/01; 19:09:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61978)
Trail Guide
Dear TG: Are you still alive? Would you please write in and say hello so that we won't worry about you? Thank you!

AEL (9/19/01; 18:59:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61977)
add to last
oops! message got truncated. Here is the tail:

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT, IN BRIEF

Would Keynes turn in his grave, I wonder, if he realised how
belief in his 'Gibson's Paradox' has turned a supposedly safe
conservative blue-chip elite Wall Street bank into a
hyper-leveraged mega hedge fund with over 600 times implied
leverage on stockholders' equity? "And what do the shareholders
themselves think about it?" asks Hamilton. "Do they understand how
dangerous large derivatives positions have proven historically for
other companies?"

JPM currently has something like 2,700 large institutional
shareholders who hold almost 61 percent of its common stock.
Hamilton asks: "Do the managers of these mutual funds and pension
funds understand that JPM management has built the biggest most
highly-leveraged derivatives pyramid in the history of the world
per US government OCC reports? Do fund managers understand the
inherent risks in leveraging capital hundreds of times over?"

Having once suffered the gambling virus, I can vouchsafe that
one's understanding of risks diminishes in inverse proportion to
how well one is doing when winning and how certain one is that one
has finally found the right formula for breaking the house. I also
had a daddy to cover my losses.

It seems that the gambling virus has hit hard at JPM. The
inevitable downfall, when it comes, will be spectacular, to say
the least. Who is going to cover those losses?

[later - September 19: Or are the losses simply going to be
cancelled out, as part of the price to pay for the terrible
tragedy of September 11?]

________________________

** Boudewijn Wegerif
What Matters Education Programme
Folkhogskola Vardingeby
150 21 Molnbo, Sweden
Tel: +46.552.10327, till end September;
thereafter +46.552.21112

The What Matters Education Programme is an initiative by Boudewijn
Wegerif to spread information about what is happening in the world
today, and how things could be, given a schooling at all levels to
free the self and the world from debt/ guilt oppression and money
making for its own sake -- a schooling in love. The programme
trustees are the executive collegiate of the Folkhogskola
Vardingeby, an Adult Education Residential College south of
Stockholm -- www.vardinge.fhsk.se. Boudewijn also gives regular
talks and workshops on 'Love and Money Matters' and is consulting
editor of monetary reform publications sponsored by the members'
owned, interest-free bank JAK - www.jak.se


Tannehill (9/19/01; 18:57:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61976)
Tanker Burns in Perisan Gulf
http://www.middleeastwire.com/atlarge/stories/20010909_7_meno.shtml
snipppet 'Old news'
"Posted Sunday September 9, 2001 - 11:45:26 AM EDT

Persian Gulf environmental officials say a tanker carrying 5,700 tons of Iraqi crude oil was on fire Saturday night and in danger of sinking. "

**************************
Note the date 9/9/01
anyone seen any other news about this tanker fire?
reported at the link that U.S. Navy rescuers safely evacuated the tanker's 15 crew members - five Iraqis, four Filipinos, and six Indians.
Not good for the oil situation.

That's all from Tannehill


AEL (9/19/01; 18:56:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61975)
BW's newsletter
Long (sorry) but interesting...

From: "Boudewijn Wegerif" <bw@jak.se>
Subject: WT-9a : Revision to opening of WHAT MATTERS-9 about gold and derivatives
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:29:47 +0200

WHAT MATTERS-9 September 19, 2001

Please prove me wrong, but I think the world's top banks will be
let off the hook on the gold and other derivatives losses that are
now inevitable

________________________

Dear list members,

On the day of the 9.11 disaster, in fact, as the planes were
tearing into the twin towers of the One World Trade Centre, I was
working on the hereon following review and summary of an important
essay by market analyst Adam Hamilton, 'The JPM Derivatives
Monster'.

I have been reluctant to post my review and summary till now,
eight days later. Even now I hesitate. Because now when I read the
original and what I have written about it, I have a sinking
feeling in my stomach that it is too late to normalise the market.

I SUSPECT THAT THE INSIDERS KNEW
THAT THIS WOULD BE THE CASE
ALL ALONG. AND I DO NOT
REALLY WANT TO ACCEPT THAT.

Regular readers of my e-letters know that I seldom use block
letters. Here they are warranted. Because my gut feeling tells me
that the banking fraternity and major world treasury departments
have known since 1995 at least that the dollar's days are
numbered, and they have been propping it up through the gold carry
trade and other means related to derivatives trading. For a coming
moment in time when it will not matter anymore. For a coming
moment in time when the gold loan and derivatives slates of the
banking system will be wiped clean. Just like that. In the
national interest.

Not the debts of the people wiped clean; nor even the debts of the
nations. No, just the derivatives debts wiped clean and all gold
debts to the central banks cancelled. Something like that. In the
national interests of the U.S., Britain and Germany mainly.

In justification, it will be claimed that the derivatives markets
have come unstuck because of the disaster that struckat the heart
of the world's financial system. This will involve a major
deception.

The review and summary of Adam Hamilton's essay, which I was
working on when the disaster struck, shows clearly that the
derivatives trade was ready to come unstuck of itself, and that
very soon.

The ramifications of this line of thought are too much for my
head. I hope I will be proved wrong. You decide whether I am on to
something after reading what follows, and the original at Adam
Hamilton's web site, www.zealllc.com. And if you think I am, for
God's sake do something to make it not happen. Lobby, lobby,
lobby, lobby and be active in other ways for a just, clean slate
outcome for all the people of the world.

--

The review and summary of Adam Hamilton's essay has been approved
by him. He thinks I did "an excellent job" summarising "a
tremendously complex hypothesis." He does not know about the
content of this introductory letter. So I don't know whether he
shares my suspicion.

Anyway, now I am posting the review and summary. It is necessary
to do so, if only because of what it tells about the serious
trouble the banks involved in the derivative markets and the gold
price suppression that underpins those markets were in BEFORE the
9.11 disaster already.

Only God and a few insiders close to the FED Chairman Alan
Greenspan know about the far worse trouble the banking giants must
be in NOW.

One must assume that they care. At any rate, they are going
through the motions of caring.

I have just heard from a Midas offering at the James Joyce Table
of the Le Metropole Café -- www.lemetropolecafe.com - that Alan
Greenspan, who has been in Switzerland for a meeting with the
BIS, Bank for International Settlements, has reportedly asked the
Swiss Government to sell its gold in accelerated fashion, or lend
more of it out.

The price of gold rose by 5 percent within two hours of the 9.11
disaster! Then in came the gold cartel giants and today gold is
still selling at 5 percent up on the price of September 10. In
other words, every rise in price above the recent level of $286
an ounce has been hammered by J.P.Morgan Chase and probably also
Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and City Bank.

These giants of the gold cartel are buying small amounts and
borrowing tonnes of gold from central banks and the future
production of mining companies like Barrack and Anglogold, and
they are throwing this gold at the market. Yes indeed: they are
successfully selling mainly borrowed gold real cheap to a lot of
eager buyers around the world, and especially in Asia. Note, they
are selling borrowed gold. Gold that has to be repaid. They are
doing it because they are already over the top with their gold
borrowings to such an extent that a rise of over 10 percent in the
price of gold will occasion enormous losses on repurchasing gold
for return to the central banks -- losses that could well bankrupt
them and lead to the demise of the dollar. A careful reading of
the review and summary below will show why!

There already is a move against the dollar, towards gold.

You may recall that in WHAT MATTERS-3 I compared the price of gold
and dollars in Russia in 1988 to those of today and established
how, thanks largely to the suppression of the gold price, the
dollar was still scoring over gold as a hedge against inflation.
"However," I wrote, "the moment the dollar starts to slide down
the pyramid that has been created for it by the western money
masters, there will be a rush from dollars to gold by every small
and big-time saver in the world."

Well, the slide has begun in Asia. I have just learnt from the
same Midas essay at Le Metropole Café that Bloomberg Online
reported late yesterday that buyers in Thailand, where gold demand
dropped by half in the last five years, have led a return to the
precious metal as a haven for investment. Last Wednesday, traders
sold as much gold jewelry as they did in an average month this
year. In India the biggest jewelry retailer is reporting a 25 to
30 percent increase in sales. And note, India makes more than
one-fifth of all gold jewelry and exports more than $8 billion
worth of jewelry each year.

The central banks claim reserves of 33,000 tonnes of gold
worldwide. This includes the gold that they have lent out to the
investment, commercial and bullion banks. Conventional estimates
place the amount of gold already sold at 5,000 tonnes, while the
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, GATA -- www.gata.org - places it
at 10,000 to 15,000 tonnes. Even at 15,000 tonnes, there is still
a lot of Central Gold left to dump on the market.

Friends, the gold tonnes that are being sold at rock bottom prices
and lent out by central banks in this way belong to the people.
They are part of the national reserves. There is a very good
chance that the gold that has been lent out, or most of it, will
not be returned. So the central banks will be left sitting with
dollar reserves mainly -- a dollar that is grossly overvalued and
must, must and will, be reduced to the equivalent of a third world
currency, just as the rouble was in the 1990s, sometime soon
rather than later. Or the dollar will go through a phony,
pre-planned death and resurrection experience, into a totally knew
global currency for the New World Order that George Bush and
company are gunning for.

In friendship,

Boudewijn Wegerif
What Matters Education Programme
Folkhogskola Vardingeby**

________________________

'THE JPM DERIVATIVES MONSTER' BY ADAM HAMILTON

A Review and Summary by Boudewijn Wegerif

September 11, 2001

Two of the largest commercial banks in the U.S., indeed the world,
J.P. Morgan and Chase Manhattan merged some months back to form a
superbank, J.P.Morgan Chase and Co., or JPM for short. It is
beginning to look as though JPM may have been formed to play the
derivatives markets more forcibly, and especially the gold and the
interest rate derivatives markets, and that it is now riding for a
spectacular fall.

For an easy to follow understanding of the nature of derivatives,
an account of the big derivatives wipe-outs of the 1990s and the
extent to which the folk at JPM are up to the eyeballs in
digitised derivatives, I strongly recommend the newly posted essay
by market analyst Adam Hamilton at www.zealllc.com (or at
www.gold-eagle.com editorials, or the Kiki Table at
www.lemetrepolecafe.com).

In 'The JPM Derivatives Monster' Adam Hamilton reveals that the
illegal gold price suppression, which has been exposed by the
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee GATA, is not just about upholding
a grossly over-valued dollar; it also appears to be part of a game
play by which massive derivatives interest rate speculations are
deemed to be made 'risk free'.

Hamilton sources an essay by the litigate Reginald Howe in the
HOWE vs BIS anti-trust action. In the essay, about which more
later, Howe shows that U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers,
by his own writings, was well aware of John Maynard Keynes'
'Gibson's Paradox'.

According to 'Gibson's Paradox', there is a "rock-solid inverse
relationship between gold and real interest rates in a free
market". And Lawrence Summers, during his time at the Treasury
Department, from 1995 to 1999, will in all likelihood have
encouraged a strong belief in 'Gibson's Paradox' at J.P. Morgan,
Chase Manhattan, Goldman Sachs, et al.

So strong has been the belief in 'Gibson's Paradox', a handful of
commercial and investment banks are now owing the equivalent of
over several years of gold production -- that is, gold which they
have borrowed from the central banks of the world mainly to keep
the price of gold suppressed. The suggestion is that they have
continued borrowing, selling and recycling the gold loans to
underpin interest rate and currency derivatives speculations of
unimaginable magnitude.

JPM's SUPER-COLOSSAL DERIVATIVES POSITION

It is very hard to believe that the total notional derivatives
positions of U.S. commercial banks and trusts is $43.9 trillion
dollars. That figure does not include investment banks like
Goldman Sachs, which do not have to supply figures to the OCC
Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, a bureau of the US
Treasury. The total U.S. derivatives position could be over $80
trillion, and according to some estimates, the total world
derivatives position is now well over $150 trillion.

Whichever of these figures you choose for comparison purposes, you
will agree, I am sure, that JPM's control of $26.3 trillion worth
of derivatives in notional terms has to be read as super-colossal!

To underscore the comparisons, just one trillion dollars is about
equal to $3,700 per every man, woman and child in the U.S. The sum
total of all recorded, money measured economic activity in the
U.S. is a little over $10 trillion, and in the world around $40
trillion. The market value of the 500 best and biggest companies
in the United States, the S&P 500, is now around $10 trillion, and
the total U.S. debt is now well over $18 trillion.

Adam Hamilton explains in very easy to read terms in his essay
'The JPM Derivatives Monster', how we are to understand the
'notional value' of a derivatives contract. The notional value or
'notional amount' is not the amount of money that changes hands in
a derivatives transaction. It is "a quasi-fictional number that
illustrates how much capital a given derivative effectively
controls," and it is used to calculate the actual payments that
must be made.

WHAT IS AT STAKE?

How much has JPM put on the line, so to speak, to cover a
derivatives position by which it effectively controls 'capital' of
$26.3 trillion? I should think just about every asset it
possesses, including the silvery cutlery in the directors' dining
room. For $26.3 trillion ($26,376 billion to be more precise)
represents $621 for every single dollar of JPM's $42 billion
equity balance, and $43 for every dollar of its mainly loan
assets.

Leverage of that order is mind-boggling even for already boggled
minds.

You may recall how the derivatives debacle of one rogue trader,
Nick Leeson, brought down the 223 year-old Barings Bank in 1995.
The capital of Barings was not $42 billion, but 28 times less at
under $1.5 billion; and the notional value of Nick Leeson's failed
derivatives bets, that the Japanese Nikkei index would rise by a
few percentage points, was not $26,376 billion but a comparatively
paltry .09 percent of that, at about $21 billion!

The Nick Leeson derivatives misadventure was just one amongst
several derivatives debacles in the 1990s. The most spectacular
was at Long Term Capital Management in 1998. It took a $3.6
billion bail-out, engineered by the U.S. Fed to prevent the LTCM
collapse from dedegitalising' the entire global financial system
(which is a perhaps more with-it way of saying, 'shaking Wall
Street to its foundations').

Note, amongst those helping to build the sophisticated derivatives
trading models at LTCM were two Nobel-prize winning economists
who, as Adam Hamilton puts it, "understood more about markets and
volatility than pretty much everyone else on the planet." Yet, as
liquidity around the world began to dry up following on Russia's
default on its debts in August 1998, the LTCM capital base of $3
billion eroded away by $100 million to $500 million A DAY! In no
time at all, the entire capital base was wiped out to honour
failed derivatives bets of $1,250 billion -- a 'notional amount'
equal to not even 5 percent of JPM's derivatives position.

"In financial circles 10 to 1 leverage is considered very
aggressive," writes Hamilton, "100 to 1 is considered to be in the
kamikaze realm, but we don't ever recall hearing about large-scale
leveraged operations exceeding 100 to 1 outside of the horrible
example of the doomed super hedge fund Long Term Capital
Management." Not before JPM, that is.

Hamilton goes on, "JPM's management may have effectively created
the most leveraged large hedge fund in the history of the world by
using $42b worth of shareholders' equity to control derivatives
representing a notional value of a staggering $26,276b."

When push comes to shove, JPM's derivatives to equity leverage of
626 to 1 is going to be a lot more telling than LTCM's derivatives
to equity leverage of 417 to 1 when it hit digitised dust.

JPM ARE THE UTTERLY DOMINANT DERIVATIVES PLAYERS

J.P. Morgan and Chase Manhattan were both already heavily engaged
in derivatives trading before they amalgamated. Now the merged JPM
is the utterly dominant player amongst the 359 U.S. commercial
banks and trusts, with 64 percent of the interest rate derivatives
market, 49 percent of the foreign exchange market, 68 percent of
the equity derivatives market, and 62 percent of the gold
derivatives market -- while holding just 12.6 percent of the
combined bank assets.

Hamilton writes: "JPM's management, for whatever reasons, has
effectively built up a derivates powerhouse that has almost
cornered the entire US commercial bank and trust derivatives
market".

Why?

I suggested in my introductory paragraphs that the answer may
relate to 'Gibson's Paradox', by which there is an inverse
relationship between the price of gold and real interest rates.

On his way to elaborating on this, Hamilton points out that only a
trivial two tenths of one percent of JPM's total derivatives
portfolio is deployed in the gold market. The $56.8 billion in
gold derivatives nevertheless represents more than the capital
value of the entire gold mining industry, at about $50 billion,
and about two and a half years of gold production, at today's gold
price of from $270 to $275 an ounce -- i.e. a total of almost
6,500 tonnes of gold.

Hamilton asks, "Why is a sophisticated superbank like JPM even
interested in the small and devastated gold market, let alone
motivated enough to maintain derivatives exposure equal to more
than 6,400 tonnes of gold?" Or, putting the question another way:
"With Wall Street perpetually telling the world that gold is a
'barbaric relic', why does the premier Wall Street bank have such
large gold derivatives positions? Ever more intriguing questions!"

Then, with regard to interest rates, Hamilton notes that "JPM has
an implied leverage ratio of notional interest rate derivatives
exposure to stockholders' equity of 422 to 1". That is $17,700
billion.

With that Hamilton is ready to fill in some details about the
"intriguing hypothesis that has recently emerged."

'GIBSON'S PARADOX' WILL FEATURE IN HOWE/GATA LAWSUIT

No doubt the hypothesis, related to Keynes' 'Gibson Paradox' will
be presented in the GATA supported Howe vs BIS lawsuit which was
filed on December 7 and which will be heard before a federal judge
in Boston, Massachusetts on October 9, when defendants will
present their arguments in support of their Motions to Dismiss.

In the lawsuit both the pre-merger JP Morgan and Chase Manhattan
are named as defendants with the Bank of International
Settlements, other bullion banks, Lawrence Summers, the former
U.S. Treasury Secretary, and Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Fed.
The full text of the complaint is available for free download in
pdf format at www.zealllc.com/howeplan. htm.

In his complaint, Reginald Howe documents how both ancestor banks
of J.P.Morgan Chase were engaged in well-timed anomalous gold
derivatives activity prior to their merger, and Adam Hamilton
comments: "There is no way that JPM management would have acquired
gold derivatives with a notional value worth 1.35 times the total
of their entire shareholders' equity base unless they knew and
intimately understood the gold market."

Hamilton began to get an inkling of the nature of their
understanding through an article by ace researcher and analyst
Michael Bolser, 'GoldGate's Real Motive?', which was posted at the
Le Metropole Cafe's James Joyce Table on May 30.

In the article Michael Bolser offered the stunning tentative
conclusion that perhaps a suppressed or shackled-down gold price
was a necessary prerequisite to JPM assuming enormous amounts of
interest rate derivatives.

He argued that a managed gold price would ratchet down
inflationary expectations and make interest rate positions much
less volatile and risky than in a truly free market. In support of
the argument, Bolser pointed out that JPM's interest rate
derivatives notional amounts had doubled since the middle of 1998,
an astronomical increase given the absolute amounts of dollars
involved.

Then, on 13 August, Reginald Howe took up the theme in a
fascinating commentary entitled 'Gibson's Paradox Revisited:
Professor Summers Analyzes Gold Prices', posted at
www.GoldenSextant.com.

Adam Hamilton explains how Howe quotes a 1988 academic paper from
the Journal of Political Economy co-written by President Bill
Clinton's future third Secretary of the Treasury, Lawrence
Summers. "Among other things, Mr. Howe discusses Mr. Summers'
interpretation of an observation by the famous economist John
Maynard Keynes on the behavior of gold prices and real interest
rates. Lord Keynes called the relationship 'Gibson's Paradox'."

For Hamilton, Howe's 'Gibson's Paradox Revisited' essay triggered
a solid understanding of Michael Bolser's shrewd earlier
hypothesis on JPM's enormous interest rate derivatives exposure!
"Gibson's Paradox helped to reconcile the puzzle and answer
nagging questions about JPM's gargantuan interest rate derivatives
position and how it could relate to the active management of the
price of gold." Hamilton set down his conclusion in an essay 'Real
Rates and Gold', posted at www.zealllc.com.

In 'The JPM Derivatives Monster' Hamilton writes: "Gibson's
Paradox, defined by Lord Keynes, effectively claims that under a
fixed gold price regime real interest rates remain predictable. If
JPM top management was participating in any US efforts to cap
gold, they had full knowledge that a de facto fixed gold price
regime had been stealthily established and they would have had a
carte blanche to massively balloon potentially highly lucrative
interest rate derivatives exposure.

After all, if JPM was convinced gold was under control, and that
gold prices were a prime driver of real interest rates, then what
better time to become the king of the interest rate derivates
world than when gold was being quietly hammered down through
massive sales of official sector gold from Western central banks'
coffers?"

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT, IN BRIEF

Would Keynes turn in his grave, I wonder, if he realised how
belief in his 'Gibson's Paradox' has turned a supposedly safe
conservative blue-chip elite Wall Street bank into a
hyper-leveraged mega hedge fund with over 600 times implied
leverage on stockholders' equity? "And what do the shareholders
themselves think about it?" asks Hamilton. "Do they understand how
dangerous large derivatives positions have proven historically for
other companies?"

JPM currently has something like 2,700 large

Netking (9/19/01; 18:44:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61974)
M.E. bets now off . . .
http://www.debka.com/
A surge of Palestinian attacks wednesday . . . this was day One of Ceasefire Pledged by Mr Arafat . . .

Ps: Mrs Netking is developing a "silver smile".

auspec (9/19/01; 18:18:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61973)
Midas Snippet on Silver
The silver manipulators are running for the hills. The silver derivative market is a tiny one. Above ground silver supply has been dissipated. The printing presses are rolling. Inflation is on the way back - maybe super-inflation. The silver shorts have quite the predicament!

There is no telling how high the price of silver could go in this new WAR environment.

PS. Somebody wants silver really bad. Just out from the Census Bureau: July silver imports were up 34% from a year earlier and were up 48% over May.

The silver squeeze is on.

This squeeze is going to make the gold capping efforts of The Gold Cartel that much harder. As the silver price rises, investors will want more gold, figuring that the price of gold will follow. And, they are right, of course.

Several coin dealers reported in today that you if you want bullion, they can get it for you, but you have to go on allocation. That is going on all over the world.

Only The Gold Cartel's price capping efforts is holding gold back at the moment. END

Comment: They better get a finger in this silver dike post haste. How{e} many fingers these guys have? I will lend them only ONE!



KarenSue (9/19/01; 18:13:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61972)
Netking # 61953
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
Sir Netking or anyone who might have insight

I see something very strange, at least to me, in the picture in the above link which you provided.

At midnight, New York time, silver made a little jump and sat there awaiting the next move up which occrured each day at or near the London close.

What do you make of it, coincidence?

Only me

KS



turkey hunter (9/19/01; 18:11:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61971)
Question from an FOA post from 6/9/01
I was wondering if what "Another" saw happening back in June is coming into view today? Any comments on this post from June 2001? Also I would like to know the meaning of "new reserve bankers"? This sentence is found in the 2nd paragraph. Thanks.

"All done as the saving wealth for your gold advocates and new reserve bankers finds it's new mark in our time".


FOA (6/9/01; 16:36:42MT - usagold.com msg#75)
A letter from Another to me.

My friend, I must now walk your trail in closer step. Events are closing that bring the changes we have long seen and prepared for. The time grows short as these conclusions prepare to make appearance. The last of these Euro price ranges are in sight and even the Duisenberg hints his work is done for this new currency. A hard task was completed by him, his acknowledge to the French in May 98 was with a timeframe few could understand. Now his containment is done. With introduction of notes and coins, this money will become it's own director and his work will be well received. A good day, indeed!

All were present at the meeting. I think contractual conversion became topic of some urgency. This BIS must now consider the values these forms will hold in ours and their new futures. Values that will no longer be dictated in dollars, rather realigned in conversion and gold market failure. Truly, this failure of current gold will be reflected as anguish in these western goldbugs, both bankers and investors. All done as the saving wealth for your gold advocates and new reserve bankers finds it's new mark in our time. Your work, good man, has been as trying to reconcile the religions of this world. Telling both they are just while only one can be right in the end. So it is in this day of gold.

Some knew what was coming from the beginning. With the Hague Conference of Heads of State in 1969 sprang Copenhagen Report of 23rd July 1973. We pointed and all continued to turn away to follow where power was, not where it was going. With the Solemn Declaration in Stuttgart (1983) closely followed by the Single European Act (1987) even the BIS then understood the final goal. Margaret (Thatcher) soon expressed that signing that proposition (the Solemn Act) was her greatest mistake in office. While I do agree with her on a strategic political basis, such reflections by British leader only exposes the ignored, nearing failure of their shared singular currency dominance (both USA and England). Little is expressed of the wealth lost of our peoples and that of most Western economies as these government's efforts to preserve this failing system drains real wealth from our world.

Now these leaders full attention must focus on this money transition itself as Blair's next initiative (the Euro) will lead to a realignment of contract values of all kinds. Before the fact! The Maastricht Treaty allows that by Jan. 2002, all contracts will be converted into euros and new contracts must be denominated in euros. Because Blair has overseen the signing of both Amsterdam and Nice Treaties, his closest people understand the full impact Britons intentions will have on this world's paper gold market. As it be contractually expressed in dollars. The credibility of these to not only represent gold but to maintain loan collateral on books will lead to several high level agreements to address this loss. Indeed, how does one transition a metal contract without moving the metal once again? Especially if the Euro suddenly, without explanation, rises in value. A rise that leaves only the door of metal fulfillment? All eyes must now search for a way to transition this beast as it's use and function will fall away as the Euro further expands. Some of your American gold must come into play during this game of kings. It must, as the BIS will sanction a complete disposal of contract liabilities from metal into Euros unless some real US gold is given up. Something your Bush will endorse but not without a price! As contract gold falls in price while expanding the physical price. I suspect it (official US gold) will be given up at the exchange rate of many thousands and even that will be the little drop of water that allows dollars to remain in this game. Our time arrives, my friend. Even as fools make effort to gain wealth in a gold market that will soon exist no more.

Tested now are the economies of both EuroZone and DollarZone with high crude values. The response of both is known. The ways of dollar wealth hasten their demise, even in the face of ECB restraint. Open and outright are they (FED) to discredit their position. This test is done and the verdict arrives soon. As with gold and oil, Dollars and Euros will neither any longer flow in the same direction.

Another

R Powell (9/19/01; 18:03:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61970)
Sierra Madre/ Privateer
Thanks for the thoughts!
I'll put my put orders in as limit orders which will only get filled with an upside bounce. If filled, okay, if not, that's okay too. Limit orders are still being taken on index options but not on gold options which can only be placed at the market (at the mercy of the floor traders!) At least this was the case early this morning. I'll try some limit gold call orders again tomorrow. I'm sure many are thinking, Rich, buy physical, there are no rules to change. Simply call CPM, send the fiat and receive the metal! I have done so with silver eagles.
However, learning how to trade options is still a great passion and occasionally quite profitable. I'm always trying to enlarge my economic knowledge and find that a little money at risk greatly motivates my efforts. I also wonder how much, if any, construction work will be available next year. Can I make a living with my brain? as opposed to pouring concrete which was a lot easier when I was a lot younger. Actually, I don't dislike it as I pick and choose when and where and pass entirely on the ill-concieved projects.
Perhaps some reading this might offer some thoughts or experiences about putting economic knowledge to work making money. I love the learning. Nothing immoral about making a buck with the brain (IMHO) as long as it does no harm to others, no?
Thoughts?
Rich



Black Blade (9/19/01; 17:51:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61969)
Asian Reaction? - and Petroleum
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

We should see some serious downside market action in Asia tonight. The Japanese version of the PPT will have their hands full. The Nikkei and even the Hang Seng look especially vulnerable.

In spite of lower petroleum prices, I hear rumblings of expanded NG exploration. There is no plan of immediate pipeline tie-in that I know of, but increased activity in drilling NG wells is in progress and then a policy of "sit on them" for the time being. This indicates that NG prices are probably expected to rise in the next several months or perhaps a planned infrastructure building phase in the future. There is also talk of a "War Premium" on oil if war breaks out. OPEC is determined to maintain the current trading range. Either way, high petroleum prices have triggered the current Recession and recent events serve to amplify it. - "Interesting Times."

- Black Blade

Privateer (9/19/01; 17:02:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61968)
Dow Now Vs Dow 1929-32
From R Powell: "If the 1930's Bear took almost 3 years to reach its low point then it's reasonable to think that the Dow won't continue to deteriorate at its present rate."

It's a case of apples and oranges. The Dow hit its high in September 1929 and crashed in October. It did not "plateau" as it has this time.

The Dow first broke through the 11000 level as long ago as May 1999. It was 11337 as recently as May 21 this year. For nearly 3 years (March 1999 - September 2001) the Dow was in a GIGANTIC top formation. Most of that time it was in a 1000 point trading range between 10000-11000.

What we are seeing hear is the START of the Dow bear. The Dow only broke decisively below its previous 2001 low (9389 on March 22) on Monday, Sept. 17.

If what is to happen now will bear any resemblance of what happened between 1929-1932, the Dow will continue to deteriorate for a long time, sometimes slower than it is now, and sometimes faster.

The Dow has just THIS WEEK broken below a nearly three year top formation. It has a lot more "deteriorating" to do.


Sierra Madre (9/19/01; 16:58:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61967)
Muttering on Wall Street...

There must be a lot of it these days.

My theory on the etymology of "to mutter": it comes from the Germans, overheard saying "Mutter this!" and "mutter that!" when they have problems. Well, it's a theory.

RPowell: the SM decline may be much faster in 2001 than it was in the 30's. First, the financial situation is far, far worse, incomparably worse. And Second, with today's communications, information moves about at the speed of light. Significant info is known to the public, in minutes, where it used to take months and months to get out and travel.

Who is responsible for this humongous mess? It's sort of like asking who is responsible for the unwanted baby, the man who asked or the woman who gave?

Ultimately, the people got themselves into the mess, by allowing others to think for them. Castro got into power in Cuba, on the back of envy.

I can understand the flagrant manipulation that is going on. It is a question of holding the American people together. There is only so much the body politic can take. Beyond the limit, it simply falls apart into anarchy and chaos.

We can live with the manipulation, after all (you want to "make a buck" in the middle of a violent revolution?)

When the manipulation finaly fails, the big problem will be staying alive and not forming part of any group that can be stigmatized as a traitor and sabotager. It's so easy to do that...."Wag the Dog" is daily life now.

Saludos from Sierra.

slingshot (9/19/01; 16:58:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61966)
Piddily Report
Now for the Piddily Report.
Called two Coin/Bullion dealers to see if they had silver bullion in any size. Both replied "No silver at all"

Editors Note. Not too long ago silver was to drop to $2.00 US. Sell and save what you can of your investment. Now everyone is Buying. Wonder what they paid for those Silver Eagles and Commemoratives Coins?
As for Gold. Was that suppost to go to $200.00 US?

Piddily Report
All the News thats Piddily to Report.
Slingshot

Black Blade (9/19/01; 16:38:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61965)
RE: Randy - Luskin Article


Last sentence from Luskin article -

This is the ideal moment for George Bush to undo the horrible economic mistake that Richard Nixon made thirty years ago. It's time to make the dollar as good as gold again. I can think of no other single economic policy prescription that would serve us better in these troubled times.

Black Blade: Will never happen. Senators and Cogressmen "Drunk with Power" will never give in. Only as individuals can we be on our own "Gold Standard." Now more than ever.


R Powell (9/19/01; 16:29:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61964)
Stock market bounce?
Privateer,
If the 1930's Bear took almost 3 years to reach its low point then it's reasonable to think that the Dow won't continue to deteriorate at its present rate.
We may be ready for some sort of bounce, dead cat or otherwise. I was looking for it today but other than the late comeback, today ended down. When do we get the (50%?) retraction? I want to short the mini S+P by buying puts but only dare enter on some kind of bounce up.
Has anyone any information on forced fund selling of stocks to meet redemption requirements? This was mentioned today on CNBC but, of course, nothing definite was offered. Forced selling in a weak market = crash = lower dollar = higher POG ? Just a thought as to one route to the last safe haven. This same scenario could see foreign owned dollars withdrawn from U.S. investments, dollars morphised into local currency and then dollars sent back to the USA as IOUs = inflation = higher POG.
The stock markets are most assuredly connected to the POG and, as such, need watching, even on a gold forum, yes?
Any thoughts?
Rich




Black Blade (9/19/01; 16:27:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61963)
Be Patriotic - Buy Stocks - Be Stupid!
Be Patriotic - Accumulate Constitutional Money!

For the last several days we have heard the Talking Heads and Pied Pipers scream, beg, and plead with the individual investor to "Be Patriotic" and BUY, BUY, BUY STOCKS and help prop up the market. Guess what? The institutions of America are bailing out while the individual investor is being played for a sucker like a fine tuned violin. Even Rush Limbaugh, Paul Harvey, and others are joining the chorus of Stock Market Pimps! The selling is only beginning to gather steam as Insurers and Reinsurers are cashing in their stocks and bonds to get liquid. They have several $Billion to payout in damages. The estimates are that damage claims are going to far exceed the damage claims of Hurricane Andrew. Even so, stock market shares are grossly overvalued and are even more so as earnings warnings are about to hit the wires. Gold and Silver are among a handful of places to hide out as the true carnage is about to begin. Be Patriotic - accumulate Constitutional Money (Gold and Silver Coin). Hang on for the ride!

- Black Blade


site steward (9/19/01; 16:21:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61962)
Testing...testing...Invisible "ink"?
RE: Black Blade's #61961...

Please see today's msg#: 61950.

Luskin is off base.

R.

Black Blade (9/19/01; 16:12:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61961)
The Failure of Alan Greenspan
http://biz.yahoo.com/smart/010919/20010919aheaofthecurv.html

Snippit:

IN 1971 PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON closed the U.S. Treasury's ``gold window,'' formally severing the last remaining link between the American currency and gold. And ever since the dollar lost its golden moorings, it has been adrift on a stormy sea of inflation and deflation. Now the global financial aftermath of last week's terrorist attacks is shaping up to be the perfect storm for the U.S. dollar. And Alan Greenspan has totally lost control of the boat. On Monday he admitted as much, by stating that for the duration of the crisis he wasn't going to enforce the new interest rate level that he had just declared.

In the statement from the Federal Open Market Committee that accompanied Monday's rate cut, Greenspan said, ``the actual federal-funds rate may be below its target on occasion in these unusual circumstances.'' And look what's happened: On the same day that he set the fed-funds rate at 3.0%, funds traded at an average rate of 2.13%, with some transactions taking place at rates near zero.

This means that interest rate targeting has now become the latest in a series of failed experiments in regulating the nation's money supply in a postgold world. Call it the Greenspan Standard - and now we're off it. That's great, as far as I'm concerned. I've argued for years that the Fed shouldn't arbitrarily set the price of money - interest rates - any more than it should set the price of hamburgers or jet engines.

Black Blade: Looks like someone finally is on to the "Chimp!" Maybe he can "Mumble" his way out of this mess, but I doubt it. As I said the economy is toast. There's absolutely no positive news to trade on. "Game Over"

BTW, DOW futures are now negative -191!!!


Black Blade (9/19/01; 16:01:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 61960)
More Hotel, Building Workers Lose Jobs
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_attack_jobs_dc_1.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The economic ripples from last week's air attacks on the World Trade Center widened Wednesday with more than 3,000 New York hotel workers and 1,200 office cleaners, electricians, and elevator operators looking for work. In addition, a couple of hundred actors and uncounted backstage crews will also be out on the street after four Broadway shows -- ``Stones in his Pockets,'' ``The Rocky Horror Show,'' ``A Thousand Clowns,'' and ``If You Ever Leave Me, I'm Going With You'' -- close on Sunday.

Black Blade: "Bones" keep piling up on the "Bone Pile." Consumer confidence through the "Floor Boards." Tucking away a little Gold and Silver is not a bad idea.


R Powell (9/19/01; 16:00:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61959)
A nice move up for silver
Silver!
From a fundamental point of view, looking at supply/demand and ongoing yearly deficits etc., I've been on the long side of silver for many years. I believe the POS has just awakened and has many dollars to the upside ahead but, what set it off today? The market often reacts for some strange reasons, what was the news today?
If there was nothing earth-shattering or if reporters ask floor traders or analysts who haven't a clue, we'll hear the standard answer that it was short covering. Of course there was short covering. Silver never moves up 27 cents without some short covering but what set off the short covering??
I can't believe it took them this long to realise that Comex stores are indeed in Deep Storage or that the government has used the last of what was once billions of ounces. The last 13 million ounces went to the mints, last Spring, for silver eagles. Australian mine closures? Mine closings in the past have been ignored.
Has anyone heard anything?
It sure has been fun watching the gold and silver charts lately. I hope it continues! Will Uncle Sam ask Warren Buffett to be patriotic by dumping his silver into the void? He paid, I believe, on average about $5.00/oz.
Will he be coerced to sell? Perhaps he'll be asked to swap his London stash for some Comex deep storage to be delivered at a future date??
Any thoughts, rumors or news reports?
Rich

Black Blade (9/19/01; 15:55:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61958)
Kodak Cuts Outlook, Sees Job Cuts
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_manufacturing_kodak_outlook_dc_4.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Eastman Kodak Co. (NYSE:EK) on Wednesday sharply cut its third-quarter profit outlook as softness in its health imaging unit and fallout from last week's air attacks compounded the impact of overall economic weakness on the photography giant's business. Rochester, New York-based Kodak, the No. 1 maker of photographic film, also said its efforts to trim costs could include further job cuts. After the news, Kodak's stock fell to its lowest level in more than 10 years. Earlier this year, the company set plans to trim up to 3,500 jobs, out of its worldwide work force of about 78,000.

Black Blade: Throwing a Bone - actually lotsa "Bones" on the "Bone Pile."


Black Blade (9/19/01; 15:50:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 61957)
3Com Loss Widens, Cutting More Jobs
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_tech_3com_earns_dc_2.html

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Networking parts maker 3Com Corp. (Nasdaq:COMS) on Wednesday reported wider first-quarter losses in line with Wall Street expectations and said it would end the quarter with 1,000 fewer jobs than it had expected in its restructuring plan.

Black Blade: Yep, more "Bones" cast upon the "Bone Pile."


Black Blade (9/19/01; 15:47:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61956)
American Air: To Cut at Least 20,000 Jobs
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_airlines_americanairlines_dc_2.html

FORT WORTH, Texas (Reuters) - American Airlines, the world's largest carrier, said on Wednesday that it would cut at least 20,000 jobs as a result of slower traffic in the wake of last week's hijacked jetliner attacks.

Black Blade: Dem Bones, Dem Bones, Dem Dry Bones! 20,000 more nonessential "Bags of Bones" cast upon the "Bone Pile." Unemployment should continue to grow exponentially and unchecked. Definitely get some PM portfolio insurance while still on sale.


Netking (9/19/01; 15:44:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 61955)
Silver soars amid concerns about COMEX stocks
http://ca.us.biz.yahoo.com/rf/010919/n19526201_1.html
Snippet:
"Silver futures soared six percent in an abbreviated New York session Wednesday, amid short covering and worries about short-term supply as markets gird for a U.S. retaliation for the attacks on U.S. landmarks last week.

Gold rose but lagged silver's advance. Precious metals have been seen as a safe-haven since the destruction of New York's World Trade Center closed all exchange trading in New York.

But dealers said the market was also concerned about physical availability of silver, with 29,942,691 ounces of warehoused COMEX silver stocks buried under the WTC rubble . . . "
------------------------------------------------------------
But hang on here, the official rhetoric was the there was "ample" supply of silver everywhere, wasn't there?. . .
- Netking

Privateer (9/19/01; 14:50:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61954)
1930s Bear Market
The Dow hit its 1929 high of 381 in early September 1929 - not sure but I think the first trading day in September
The Crash was on October 29, 1929
The bear market low was in June 1932 - about 42 on the Dow
From high to low was 33 months - nearly 3 years

Netking (9/19/01; 14:04:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61953)
Ag - Every picture tells a story . . .
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
Aside from the events of the last week, the chart looks great.

diehard (9/19/01; 14:02:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61952)
Oktoberfest
prior to the attack and THE Oktoberfest
Posted by: Wolfgang
Date: September 19, 2001 at 12:44


it was reported, that a Bin Laden cooperator was arrested in Alicante (Spain)before trying to carry out a hit against Strasbourg`s market place.

Alone in germany there are 300 known cells of sympathics of terrorists, but our law makes us unable to arrest them, because of general assuming of unguiltyness unless having commited any crime.

On 22 Sept. the world`s largest drinking festival
namely " The Bavarian Oktoberfest in Munich is expected to open it`s gates to the drinking tents filled with millions of people around the world, of which are a big number from the US, to get up to the beer desks after a while and cheering to the Bavarian Brassbands under the steemy beer tents and enjoying our beloved 15 % Stammwuerze of alcohol mass litered gallons of delicious beer.

Hope everything runs as usual and no bomb attacks like in 1979 or so will occur.

The show must go on, in particular on " dangerous" popular locations.......

BTW not many in Germany are hoarding gold so far

except me, but I prefer the 1 KG ( = 32 ounces )
silver bars in 999.9 here still easily available. ( VAT must be paid however)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




AbsoluteX (9/19/01; 13:40:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61951)
WHY THEY ATTACK US - Part II
http://dkd.net/davekidd/politics/mahathir.html

- Currency Trade is x20 of the Real Trade

- The whole trading is secretive and a bit shady as huge
sums are apparently moved about from banks to banks.
No real money are involved, only figures.

- Currency market become cash cows to them.
They cannot fail to make a profit whichever way the index
goes.

- Unfortunately their profits come from impoverishing
others, including very poor countries and poor people,
who don't have enough money to defend themselves.

- These are billionaires who do not really need any more
money.

- Great countries tell us that we must accept being
impoverished because that is what international finance
is all about.

- We are also warned that these are powerful people. If we
make a noise or we act in any way, then ....

================

Prof. Dr Mahathir's famous speech on that 20.Sep.1997

24. There may be no conspiracy as such but it is quite obvious that a few at least, media as well as fund managers, have their own agenda which they are
determined to carry out.

25. We have always welcomed foreign investments, including speculation. They can come in to buy shares and to get out if they wish to for whatever reason. But when the big funds use their massive weight in order to move the shares up and
down at will and make huge profits by their manipulations then it is too much to expect us to welcome them, especially when their profits results in massive
losses for ourselves in the classic zero sum game theory.

26. International trading makes currency exchange necessary. Otherwise we may have to resort to barter. Buying and selling currency to finance trade is fine.
But out of this evolved pure trade in currency as a commodity.

27. We are told that the trade in currency is actually 20 times bigger than real trade in goods and services. Other than profits and losses to the traders involved, there really is no tangible benefits for the world from this huge
trade. No substantial jobs are created nor products or services enjoyed by the average people. The whole trading is secretive and a bit shady as huge sums are apparently moved about from banks to banks. No real money are involved, only figures. One billion Malaysian ringgits would need a big truck to move from place to place. Obviously this is physically impossible if the Great Train Robbery is not to be repeated hundreds of times over.

28. The traders apparently make billions with each transaction. But when the funds at their disposal is huge and they are in a position to influence the values of the currencies with their investments and divestments then the
currency market become cash cows to them. They cannot fail to make a profit whichever way the index goes.

29. Unfortunately their profits come from impoverishing others, including very poor countries and poor people. South East Asian countries have now become
their target simply because, we have the money but not enough to defend ourselves.

30. In the case of Malaysia, the ringgit is devalued by 20 percent. What this means is that we, everyone of us including the Government, have lost 20 percent
of the purchasing power of whatever money we have. The poor have become poorer and there are now more poor people in Malaysia. The rich have become poorer too but we will not waste any sympathy on them of course.

31. But the currency traders have become rich, very very rich through making other people poorer. These are billionaires who do not really need any more
money. Even the people who invest in the funds they operate are rich; we are told that the average return is about 35 percent per annum.

32. And we are told that we are not worldly if we do not appreciate the workings of the international financial market. Great countries tell us that we must
accept being impoverished because that is what international finance is all about. Obviously we are not sophisticated enough to accept losing money so that
the manipulators become richer.

33. We are also warned that these are powerful people. If we make a noise or we act in any way to frustrate them they would be annoyed. And when they are annoyed they can destroy us altogether, they can reduce us to basket cases. We have to accept that they are around, that they will always be around and that there really is nothing we can do about it. They will determine whether we prosper or
we don't.

34. Once upon a time the U.S. allowed monopolies. Then Rockefeller cornered the oil industry in America and destroyed the small players and squeezed the
consumers. The U.S. government decided that this was not right and outlawed monopolies through the Anti-Trust Laws.

35. A few decades back some enterprising people hit on the idea acquiring controlling interest in companies and then stripping their assets. The shell left by them was incapable of giving any return to the small shareholders. Thousands of people lost money.

36. Again the government stepped in and required anyone acquiring more than a certain percentage of shares to make an offer for the rest. That way the small
shareholders were able to dispose of their shares at the offered price. They were relieved of the possibility of owning shares in useless companies.

37. To prevent other abuses, anyone buying more than five percent of the shares have to declare.

38. When insiders made use of inside information to sell or buy their own shares it was regarded as unfair advantage and was made illegal.

39. I mention all these because society must be protected from unscrupulous profiteers. I know I am taking a big risk to suggest it, but I am saying that currency trading is unnecessary, unproductive and immoral. It should be
stopped. It should be made illegal. We don't need currency trading. We need to buy money only when we want to finance real trade. Otherwise we should not buy or sell
currencies as we sell commodities.

40. We cannot go back to Bretton Woods and the fixed exchange rates although we should be honest enough to admit that fixed exchange rates did not hold up the
economic recovery of the world in the post World War period. It was wrong only because it did not really reflect the economic performance of the nations concerned. Sovereign nations were allowed to devalue at will.

But the float resulted in nations losing their sovereign rights. Currency traders emerged who made killings tracking the snake etc. But they were relatively small players. They were not the movers and shakers who ruled the market. They were mere speculators.

41. No one I think would want to return to the fixed exchange rates. But if anarchy is abhorred by good citizens everywhere, there is no reason why we should not abhor, anarchy in the world financial system. A certain degree of
uncertainty is fine but an absolutely uncertain financial world is no good for anyone, except of course for those who deliberately create the uncertainty. But then these
people know for certain what they are going to do and could take cover or take advantage. For them there is no uncertainty. They are dealing in absolute certainty and they cannot possibly lose. If insider trading is unfair,
outsiders who know exactly what is going to happen and then trade, can it be said to be fair?



site steward (9/19/01; 13:29:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 61950)
Spartacus and uponroof, thanks for drawing attention to Luskin's latest
http://www.luskinreport.com/luskin/latest/default.htm
Great commentary in general, but he has a serious flaw in his interpretations -- particularly stemming from this comment:

"the NY Fed's open market desk is in the market every day with its big, swinging billions -- doing what? Why?
Consider: in the wake of the horrors of last Tuesday, the market is so hungry for the safety of dollar deposits that it will accept any interest rate no matter how low -- even zero! -- in order to get them."

Anyone here who hasn't been thoroughly put to sleep by my posts over the months and years knows the real score. By keeping just HALF an eye open to the USAGOLD forum would allow anyone to correct Mr. Luskin on this account. The actual case is FAR more disconcerting than his misinterpretation allows.

Preserve your wealth with an ample diverisification into gold metal. You need it now more than ever.

And on that note...lunchtime!

R.

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 13:21:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61949)
The PPT has arrived !
BTW -- Did you all hear the TRUMPETS when the PPT arrived at 14:45 NYSE time ? Let us see if they can hold back the FLOOD.
<;-)

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 13:17:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61948)
segel_flieger (msg#: 61947)
SIR Segel_Flieger prognosticates --
"Physical Markets
With today's closed door meeting of Greenspan, Lindsey, Rubin, and "key" lawmakers, I get the gut feeling that something big is afoot with regard to the US and other official Gold holdings."
Just a really wild guess, but I would not be at all surprised if an announcement is made in the next few days or weeks to sell all or part of the US Gold "Reserves".
-------
Sorry SF, but I do not believe that these fokes are as DUMB as that !! Perhaps, REVALUE the US Gold "Reserves", --YES?
<;-)

segel_flieger (9/19/01; 13:04:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61947)
Physical Markets
With today's closed door meeting of Greenspan, Lindsey, Rubin, and "key" lawmakers, I get the gut feeling that something big is afoot with regard to the US and other official Gold holdings.

Just a really wild guess, but I would not be at all surprised if an announcement is made in the next few days or weeks to sell all or part of the US Gold "Reserves". However, I can't think of a single thing that would be more bullish for Gold over the long run. This would mean that those who seek to suppress the natural role of Gold have indeed "played the very last card of their hand".

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 12:45:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61946)
HELLO less than 8,500 --- Have you come to visit ?
DOW is GOING DOWN rapidly !!!!
S&P Futures are NEGATIVE
<;-(

CoBra(too) (9/19/01; 12:44:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61945)
Nymex Implements New Rules on Metal Deliveries ...
Wednesday September 19, 3:30 AM

Nymex Implements New Procedures For Metals Deliveries
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The destruction of warrants for precious metals deliveries issued by licensed depositories and the inaccessibility to metals stored under the razed World Trade Center has prompted the New York Mercantile Exchange to implement new procedures and a temporary emergency rule, the exchange announced Tuesday.
The bars of gold, silver, platinum and palladium are stored at ScotiaMocatta Depository Corporation located in a vault beneath 4 World Trade Center and may not be available until the debris from last week's collapse has been cleared. Its status as a viable depository is currently unknown, Nymex noted.

ScotiaMocatta is the metals-trading arm of the Bank of Nova Scotia (T.BNS).

Nymex has approved replacing the lost warrants with new warrants issued by an Exchange-licensed depository, as long as the chain of custody can be documented, an affidavit of loss is prepared by the warrant holder and the clearing member of the original warrant guarantees the validity of the chain of custody.

The chain of custody must be documented either by the street invoice issued by the clearing house, the records of the depository proving the original warrant was issued, transfer letters issued by the clearing house, or a photocopy of the original warrant.

If a chain of custody can't be verified by documents from the licensed depository, the clearing member or the Exchange clearing house, the holder of the warrant must obtain an open penalty indemnity bond for the lost or stolen instrument, Nymex said.

If a clearing member taking delivery is provided a warrant from the ScotiaMocatta Licensed Depository and refuses to accept transfer of title of metal located there, that member "may require that the clearing member making delivery provide either a warrant from another Exchange licensed depository, or physical metal, meeting the specifications of the applicable metal contract, in a mutually agreed upon location," in accordance with certain guidelines.

Those guidelines stipulate that, if agreed to by the member accepting delivery, the clearing member making delivery will execute an alternative notice of intention to deliver on the form prescribed by Nymex and then deliver a completed, executed copy of the intention to deliver to the Exchange. That delivery will release the clearing members and the Exchange from their respective obligations under the Exchange contracts.

Clearing members, in executing this notice, "shall indemnify the Exchange against any liability, cost, or expense it may incur for any reason as a result of the execution, delivery or performance of such contracts or such agreement, or any breach thereof or default thereunder," Nymex's published release said. The Exchange will also be required to return all margin money held for each clearing member's account to the appropriate clearing member upon receiving the alternative notice of intention to deliver.

-No comment, cb2


uponroof (9/19/01; 12:36:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61944)
Carl H
I believe COMEX new hours are 9:30-12:30. Working under duress in every meaning of the word. Employees are not happy with conditions, their buried inventory weeks away from access, gold is becomming harder and harder to control. Limited hours helps all of the above.

A better question is....What happens to your futures and options if they spike before COMEX gets 'up to speed'? Will they honor your contract? Or use the terrorist attack as a bail out to justify 'Force Manure'.

uponroof (9/19/01; 12:27:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61943)
Old Yeller
Yes, I know they are essentially bankers who have sold short their company's life's work, but I enjoy pointing this out, over and over, on public forums.

The question remains, and I'd love to hear their answer...WHERE ARE THEY!!?? WHAT ARE THEY DOING!!??

They are an embarassment to their industry. If anyone can dispute this please post your thoughts, just as I will post any responses from this 'disingenuous' (lying), IMHO, organization.

Old Yeller (9/19/01; 12:26:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61942)
Question for ORO

ORO,if you have a moment,your thoughts on the banks and how vulnerable they may be at this juncture,would be greatly appreciated.

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 12:24:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61941)
OOPS !!! --- There goes S&P500 INDEX through the 1,000 level !!!
<;-(

Old Yeller (9/19/01; 12:22:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61940)
News from the paper mill;inventory problems...
http://in.biz.yahoo.com/010918/7/14ztt.html

Are of a temporary nature,we hope.While you're waiting,read this,hopefully you will feel much better.

Carl H (9/19/01; 12:18:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61939)
What's Up with KITCO Charts?
Why are they going flat at various times for the last three days?

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 11:54:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 61938)
DOW less than 8,600 has ALMOST arrived at the NYSE !!
LOW was only 8,603.93 ---- SO FAR !
What is that dance ?
"HOW LOW can you go?"
<;-(

Old Yeller (9/19/01; 11:51:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 61937)
uponroof ; WGC

They are dominated by ABX and AU,who combined with HM and NDY represent about 45 million ozs. hedged.There is a problem here,the conflict of interest looks to becoming somewhat glaring.

I wonder how Bobby Godsell is going to maneuver out of this little pickle.

The Hoople (9/19/01; 11:27:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 61936)
Questions to ask
It is important to consider a few things lurking in this financial storm.

How would the market react to another LTCM type derivative blowup? How could their not be in light of the long bond,dollar, and precious metal shifts?

How much longer before Japan must liquidate our bonds they own?

What is the moral hazard of an airline bailout? Could the steel, auto, and insurance industries be far behind? They could all claim national best interests.

With all the talk previously about corporations selling puts to enhance revenues how could they not have big losses on top of bad business? Many of the largest market caps on the planet a year and a half ago now trade in single digits.

Anybody selling gold or silver right now would be analogous to hearing a tornado warning for your vicinity and then calling your insurance agent to cancel your homeowner policy. With that in mind, if you knew a tornado was approaching and had one last chance to increase your coverage wouldn't you do it in an instant?










uponroof (9/19/01; 11:21:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61935)
WORLD GOLD COUNCIL
'The American Advisor' reports today

"traditional wire services (reuters, bridge, etc) talking about the fact that Central Banks have been holding down the price (of gold). You know, once sombody tells you that it makes you want to own the gold even more and trust the currency even less."
-end-

Folks, there is a growing awareness of what is going on in the gold market. Now I ask you again....WHERE IS THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL!!??

NOW IS THE TIME FOR THE WGC TO PROMOTE NOTHING LESS THAN A GOLD STANDARD!!

Let's alert the masses as to all the benefits of a gold standard through targeted TV commercials, radio ads, etc.
List the basic advantages, stimulate interest, and in doing so incite a public movement THAT WILL DEMAND TO BE HEARD. Let the manipulators (FED, CBs, Investment Houses) come forward and explain why a gold standard isn't possible.

I don't think they can without exposing their corrupt, illegal, reprehensible and dangerous actions over these past many 'Strong Dollar' years.

And so the mission is to merely create the gold standard debate. Like a political campaign the WGC needs to keep the pressure on, steering the discussion on topic.

52 mil bucks is respectable as far as political warchests go.

Or they can sell jewellery in fashion magazines.

Trader_vic (9/19/01; 11:12:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61934)
Stock Market in the 30's
For the question about the length of time it took for the stock market to crash in the 30's...

The market slide really started about 3 months prior to the crash, just as we have now... theirs actually had a mini-crash in September but was saved by J.P.Morgan and some other bankers... as you know the actual crash occured in late October when the Bank of England got involved with bond yields and the Federal Reserve tightened interest rates and increased banking reserve requirements...

Today you have the Fed injecting liquidity into the market to divert a liquidity problem, however you need to solve the confidence issue with the small investor to regain control of the falling market... Could there be a crash from here, Absolutely... Will there be, maybe... I am of the advise to sell now and ask questions later... Runs on the market can happen a million times faster now with the electronic trading systems and you don't want to be caught in a downdraft. You can always buy back in when you feel comfortable with the market later...

Sierra Madre (9/19/01; 11:02:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61933)
New paperback out: "The Case of the Falling Towers Sisters"
The outline:

Well, Miss Marple figures in the latest murder mystery, "The Case of the Falling Towers Sisters". The police think it was Osama the butler, but Miss Marple is shrewd and thinks it was the sisters' best friend Ariel who pushed them off a cliff. Miss Marple has a hard time proving her case, that the best friend had a great interest in doing the deed. Result: Miss Marple goes off to jail for defamation and the butler is executed.

Sierra


Broken Tee (9/19/01; 10:54:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61932)
Great depression market crash
Just curious. Do any history buffs know how long it took the Market to crashed back in the 30's??? ( one day, a week, two weeks, a month)

Tommy P (9/19/01; 10:49:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61931)
Bin laden not the one responsible
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr010919_1_n.shtml
excellent read

Galearis (9/19/01; 10:33:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61930)
Kitco Forum
has been
shut down due to ungentlemanly behavior of posters.
Kitco2 forum is up and running but is not accepting new posters at this time.

It could lead one to guess that there may be a few fewer posters on Kitco2 after the dust settles.

(smile)

G.


BR549 (09/19/01; 10:29:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61929)
New Fed Beige Book telling us what we already know
http://www.federalreserve.gov/FOMC/BeigeBook/2001/20010919/Default.htm
"Reports from Federal Reserve Districts generally indicated that overall economic activity remained sluggish in August and early September, with several suggesting that activity slowed further. Back-to-school buying gave retailers in some regions a boost in sales, but overall consumer spending generally was said to be flat to down. Residential real estate markets were described as "brisk," "strong," or "steady" in most reports, buoyed in large part by low mortgage rates. By contrast, demand for commercial space reportedly softened further in most Districts. Manufacturing activity remained weak in nearly all regions, and the softness appeared to be broad based. Lending activity was mixed. Demand remained strong for residential mortgages, while demand for business loans was flat to down in most Districts as many lenders continued to tighten standards on some commercial loans. Relatively soft labor markets persisted in most Districts, with a few reports indicating further easing. Upward pressure on wages remained subdued, but contacts in some Districts continued to express concern about rising health insurance premiums. Upward price pressures were again restrained in nearly all Districts. Input cost pressures were said to be easing as well. "

Tommy P (09/19/01; 10:26:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61928)
BR549
THE MARK OF THE BEAST!

BR549 (9/19/01; 10:18:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61927)
More loss of liberties--Congress is considering requiring all citizens and non-citizens to carry identity cards.
http://msnbc.com/news/630118.asp?0si=-


ID cards weighed by Congress

Fewer visas, biometric database are also under discussion
A Customs inspector checks a Canadian couple's passports last April at the Ambassador Bridge from Windsor, Ontario to Detroit.


By Tom Curry
MSNBC

Sept. 18 — In response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Congress is considering requiring all citizens and non-citizens to carry identity cards. Those might be "smart cards" storing data such as fingerprints and travel records. Congressional leaders are also discussing tight limits on granting visas to enter the United States and a system of tracking those who are admitted. Such steps would mark a historic change in the lives of Americans and visitors to the United States.

Scanning your eyeballs at the gas station when you purchase gas or food at the grocery store followed by a paperless fiat may be next.

Get your gold while you can.



USAGOLD (9/19/01; 09:41:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61926)
Short Note. . . .
We've got gold up $3.60 at the moment.

We are hearing reports of extraordinary demand in the Far East. When the world was emerging from the 1997 Asian Contagion crisis, we ran a series of currency/gold graphs on a few of the affected nations. Gold had skyrocketed in those currencies -- rising multiples. The mainstream press was telling Americans that the Asians were selling gold in order to make ends meet and that this would depress the price. They were also telling Americans that as those countries attemtped to bail themselves out throug cheap imports to the United States, it would ameliorate the U.S. inflation rate. We reported from a different perspective. We pointed out that though Asians might be selling now, they would become long term accumulators because gold was such a solid holding during their worst times. That is precisely what happened. Now, with those memories still fresh, Asians are buying gold in quantity as this economic crisis heightens. We have seen the emergence of a familiar pattern of gold rising in the East and the physical market being led higher overnight. Watch Asia for a clue as to what will happen in the West at sunrise.

We might add that U.S. demand is strong as well with reports of wholesalers being cleaned out of inventory on buying spurts. Those inventories are being replenished.

These markets are reacting the way they should have a long time ago and the drop in stock demand and rise in gold demand are really manifestations of trends that go beyond the WTC attack. That has simply acted as a catalyst to initiate a trend that was already psychologically alive in many people's minds. Most of the gold buyers are saying that they have been thinking about this for a long time and that recent events pulled them off the fence.



Old Yeller (9/19/01; 09:39:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61925)
Lebanese gold

With the news of Greenie meeting with Mr.Rubin today,the possibility of a temporary solution to the gold problem that's dogging the dollar comes to mind.I remember reading of "external" pressure to mobilize this large supply of gold.Does anybody know of the current status of this situation?

Lease rates are perking up again,watch out for the US dollar carry trade!



Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 09:39:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61924)
Don't look now, BUT the US$ is headed SOUTH, and what is that I hear ?
A VOICE saying, "Hi Ho SILVER !!"
<;-)

Q (9/19/01; 09:25:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61923)
the SDR monster manipulator uncloaks .... finally
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010919/business_attack_financial_soros_dc_1.html
George Soros wants Congress to change a law to flood the world (i.e. his cronies) with SDR's (i.e. US backed gold.... how do you feel about this America? (I believe the gold's already spoken for and it's just the paperwork that is being cleared up..... Soros, Greenspan, Rubin, Rothschild

"...
His report proposed issuing special drawing rights (SDRs) to provide international assistance that would give a predictable flow of financing for
development indefinitely.

``Approval by the United States Congress is all that stands in the way of releasing the SDRs,'' said the report, adding that as much as $18 billion
could be made available immediately for aid programs if such a system were adopted.

A board operating under, but independent of the IMF would be set up to decide who was eligible for SDR allocations." .."


Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 09:17:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61922)
HELLO less than DOW 8600
Where are you headed ?
<;-)

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 08:52:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61921)
HELLO less than DOW 8800 !!
Have not seen you since 1998 !!
Next "support" level is DOW 7500.
Get the YELLOW now as the train is leaving "town".
<;-)

Econoclast (9/19/01; 08:47:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61920)
The Billion Dollar Question is....
Why does a $40 billion down payment in the "War on Terrorism" and a $24 billion airline industry bailout have to make their way in writing through the capitol and the presidents desk,
but apparently, the banking industry simply gets to instantly, with no ones approval required, bail themselves out to the tune of over $200 billion and counting?

Gandalf the White (9/19/01; 08:34:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61919)
TESTING !
<;-(

uponroof (9/19/01; 08:34:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61918)
Spartacus
http://www.luskinreport.com/
Thanks for that heads up.

Luskin thinks the FED has lost control of rates (see below)

"...In the statement from the Federal Open Market Committee that accompanied Monday's rate cut, Greenspan said, "...the actual federal funds rate may be below its target on occasion in these unusual circumstances." And look what's happened: on the same day as he set the fed funds rate at 3%, funds traded at an average rate of 2.13% Monday, with some transactions taking place at rates near zero".....

Look indeed! The market is taking over!

Luskin believes gold is next.


Spartacus (9/19/01; 07:51:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61916)
(No Subject)
THE LUSKIN REPORT
Alan Greenspan's Perfect Storm
Donald L. Luskin
Wednesday, September 19, 2001

http://www.luskinreport.com/




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