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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/18/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) The Invisible Hand (9/18/01; 23:22:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61915) Comex and Nymex Is Comex a division of Nymex? Are they located in the same building? Solomon Weaver (9/18/01; 22:53:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61914) (No Subject) Canuck (9/18/01; 21:11:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61907)"I buy gold because I inherently KNOW there is evil on the planet and I know it will prevail.". . . . . .Canuck Having a little fun with your grammar...which did you mean will prevail...gold, or evil?Poor old Solomon ROSEBUD99 (9/18/01; 22:10:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61913) re: Black Blade (9/18/01; 20:23:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61902) Good thing those terrorists didn't read this site. They might have crashed into 4 refineries. then we would be in a real fix for winter. P.S. hope they aren't reading now and decide to make that their next target. Max Rabbitz (9/18/01; 21:53:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61912) Gasoline stocks and winter coming With regard to Black Blades earlier post of very tight refinery capacity......the API reported today that gasoline stocks declined by 4.2 million barrels this last week. With few people flying who gasoline demand could soar. I think refineries have already switched towards producing more heating oil for the coming winter. There could be a gasoline shortage and price rise coming. Or maybe we'll just import it? The weather forecast for the Great Lakes region is colder than normal but natural gas prices and supply should not be a problem this year. BR549 (9/18/01; 21:42:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61911) Wish I was going with you http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/foia/exemptions.cfm @uponroof---Great evening ahead of you and I got a chuckle out of your great post.The Fed is listed under the Internet handle of dot.gov. which means they are a part of the federal government.Without bogging us down the Fed is really a quasi agency, half gov and half corp. The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552 (b), would therby apply amd the following records of the Board are exempt from disclosure: (1) National defense. (2) Internal personnel rules and practices. (3) Statutory exemption. (4) Trade secrets; commercial or financial information. (5) Inter- or intra-agency memorandums. (6) Personnel and medical files(7) Information compiled for law enforcement purposes(8) Examination, inspection, operating, or condition reports, and confidential supervisory information. (9) Geological and geophysical None of these meets the requirements for the FED not providing info under the ACT and IMHO their meeting should be allowed under Sunshine Laws.Have a great time with your family/BR549 Black Blade (9/18/01; 21:39:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61910) UAL to cut 20,000 jobs - One Big "Bone Pile" http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/09/18/companies/ual_cuts/ Airline latest in industry to respond to terrorist attacks with job cutsSnippit:WASHINGTON (CNN) - With the airline industry reeling from last week's terrorist attacks involving four hijacked jetliners, sources familiar with United Airlines told CNN Tuesday that the airline plans to cut at least 20,000 employees, or 20 percent of its workforce.Black Blade: As the "Bone Pile" grows, consumer confidence falls. There is absolutely no good news anywhere. The Stock Market indices have much further to fall to get to rational-reasonably valued levels. I would expect the "Bone Pile" to continue its exponential growth for some time. Good time to load up with cheap Gold and Silver PM insurance. Gene (9/18/01; 21:32:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61909) Currencies I ask again; Why has the Canadian dollar dropped like a lead balloon? Is the cabal attacking it as part of the effort to hold down the gold price? The same with the Aussie dollar. Will someone with more smarts than I please answer? TIA, Gene Black Blade (9/18/01; 21:20:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 61908) Member Banks of NY FED The New York Fed reports that its eight largest member banks on June 30, 1997 were: Chase Manhatten Bank Citibank Morgan Guaranty Trust Company Fleet Bank Bankers Trust Bank of New York Marine Midland Bank, and Summit Bank I am not sure of the complete FED membership.- Black Blade Canuck (9/18/01; 21:11:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61907) Note to Megatron, anyone else baffled. I for one am entirely in amazement with the recent lame runup in gold in the last week. Only a short while ago a brilliant poster identified 10 reasons that should have caused gold to take off but it did not. The last 8 days gave us an eleventh reason which was far larger than the previous 10 combined. The suppressors of gold, IHMO, advocates of the USD, are fighting tooth and nail to hang on to the dollar and conversely gold. It is my opinion the suppressant is in endless supply and at only this level gold will be controlled forever. The historical advocates of the USD have aided and abetted in this, the monumental supression of free markets and in our view the continuous pasting of gold. The last week has been both a sad week for gold and for mankind. It is at times inconceivable how a group of villains can engage in such destruction and at the same time we witness the same-old, same-old in regards to the 'villains' of gold.Maybe this is the essence of all the madness.There is a struggle just beginning, this will become a very long conflict with oil at its root. The power which the US demands is dependant on cheap oil. The committment to the USD by American allies is a repercussion and a result of same. As US power slips from its fingers, drawn out by escalating costs to produce a robust economy, friends and allies will drift from the once superpower dollar. I have watched the micro-economic facets of gold each day and it drives me up the wall. I am aware of the final outcome, it is crystal clear.........crystal. I have envisioned a day where friends, foes and allies dessert the American way not because of any particular reason just because it is time. The superpower has been mighty for a long time but the firepower is wading. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.We witness the reluntless of Europe to tag-along with the US. Europe will become dependant with her own currency. She aligns with oil. Russia, due to proximity to oil and suggestively other reasons sides with oil. Japan has been reluctant to continue with the American way. She sways and she rocks and soon she will depart the American battleship. China wants no part and South America is speaking with Europe. Examine the macro view and visualize the end result.The alliances in the upcoming struggle in the middle -east will prove continuing support for the US. Watch carefully for what has been said and what will be done may not be one thing. European support other than that of England may be hard done by. Middle-eastern support of the US is a little shaky at the moment. Regardless of anyones opinion of late, the truth will be self-revealing very shortly. The theory of the 'West' versus the rest will be put to the test soon.I buy gold because I inherently KNOW there is evil on the planet and I know it will prevail. The truth will rise above the crooked financial monsters and the ruthless murderers whether it be east or west. I will not sell my gold but instead I will cease to watch the micro-economic twists and turns and agonize myself with its gore. The truth of this marco-mess will be self-revealing and I for one will witness this day. I will not wish for it today or tomorrow anymore; it will come to me for I will be patient and honest. The war on terrorism will be long. The struggle for oil and its inherent power begins today. I hope the participants understand that the inhabitants of this planet are watching closely and wish not for brutal wars but solutions for there is but one world.Canuck.I will be gone for a time. goldquest (9/18/01; 21:10:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61906) Questions If Greenspan is appointed by the President, is he also paid by the U S Government? (Taxpayers.) If so, why would he not be held accountable under the FOIA? TIA uponroof (9/18/01; 21:09:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61905) Freedom Of Information Act? Hi Mr 549,Hope you and yours are fine.I have seen a few posts about 'The Freedonm of Information Act' otherwise known as 'The Sunshine Act'. Unfortunately I had a breif spin with the gummint in this area and can relate the following:The FED is a private entity and exempt from FOIA regulations. Besides, FOIA is not a simple as it sounds. You don't just demand information from the gummint. I was after some gummint documents regarding the silver market and the Hunt Brothers. Here is how it works:1. You request a list of documented information.2. They respond by sending you a list of available. documents ALONG WITH THE COST OF EACH DOCUMENT.3. You choke at the prices then pick out on the list what you would like and send along with money.4. They send the wrong document and charge you multiples of what they should.5. You call them and complain...after being on hold for 45 minutes.6. They ask if you would like to speak to their superior.7. You give them a french lesson.Gummint 'sunshine' is not cheap, way too slow, and very frustrating. A waste of time and money IMHO. In other words when they eliminate this in the near future, in order to 'protect us', don't sweat it. Never was what it sounds like.Taking my kids to the flagpole tommorrow morningnite. Black Blade (9/18/01; 20:54:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61904) RE: BR549 - FED Reserve They are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, as the Federal Reserve is a Private, not a Public "Government" Institution. I don't recall the exact split off hand, but many if not most of the board are representatives of major banks that are the Federal Reserve. BR549 (9/18/01; 20:47:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61903) Greenspan's Closed-Door Meeting Tomorrow-- Leigh (msg#: 61893)---I agree. Why is it necessary for the FOMC to not broadcast their meetings live on TV?Why are they exempt from disclosing their meeting via the Freedon of Information Act? What are they talking about in there?BR549 Black Blade (9/18/01; 20:23:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61902) More Energy Problems On The Horizon I see former Energy Secretary Bill Richardson on FOX. He's happy that the Saudi's will continue to produce oil. He just doesn't get it! It's not the availability of oil - it's the ability to refine enough of it and distribute it. There simply is not enough refining capacity to convert the crude into enough usable fuel at a "Cheap Price" in order to stimulate the economy with "Cheap Energy." He never was able to understand the basics of petroleum production. I will try to address this in more detail perhaps this weekend as I had a conversation with someone inside the refining end of the industry in Casper, Wyoming. There's only one refinery left there in the center of a moderate sized petroleum producing region. The energy crisis triggered the current Recession and recent events just amplified it perhaps several fold. It will continue to get both "Interesting" and "Grim."- Black Blade Black Blade (9/18/01; 20:14:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61901) Boeing Confirms Laying Off Up to 30,000 http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010918/business_transport_boeing_layoffs_dc_2.html Snippit:SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co. said on Tuesday it would lay off between 20,000 and 30,000 workers in its commercial jet unit by the end of 2002 as a result of dwindling orders. The world's biggest jet maker, Boeing had been expected to cut its forecasts for aircraft deliveries as a result of weakness among U.S. airlines, which had been exacerbated by hijack attacks on U.S. landmarks last week. Boeing will formally announce the cuts later Tuesday night, a spokesman said, noting media, including Reuters, were already reporting the layoffs.Black Blade: That's on hell of a "Bone Pile." As I said - it's going to get much worse. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Netking (09/18/01; 20:04:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61900) Silver Silver dudes, Yes POS back on track & looking up towards the Nimbo stratus clouds. . . Phew, maybe some chartist did spill their Nescafe!<grin> uponroof (9/18/01; 19:47:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61899) The world needs Physical gold Hey megatron,I feel the same way. This is unbelievable. The worst part is we can't complain too loudly without looking like traitors. Funny how this worked out eh? I'm starting to think much larger forces are at work. Might this be the meltdown before digital currency and 'the mark'..without so much as another peep outta gold? then I catch myself...That's just what they want us to think. To twist our nuts so tight we can't see straight. They can all go back to hell with stepping stone fiat and whatever else they have in mind next. I'm holding onto gold and silver till the Lord comes back. Hang in there buddy. Give it another month or two at least.It's gotta be tough getting to sleep without any gold to back you up. Please reconsider.From tonights MIDAS:"...Uh Oh! I JUST received a call from a GATA supporter who heard from one of his reliable sources that in addition to his going to the BIS meeting Switzerland, Alan Greenspan solicited the Swiss Government to sell its gold in accelerated fashion, or lend more of it out."-end-Well well well...Greenspan's violin concerto was not in vain. Someone in Europe had pity as this was reported on 'The American Advisor' today:"The wire services reported today that the ECB sold 3.6 metric tonnes of gold into the market last week"*********************************************************Sent an email to our 'friends' at the WGC requesting an answer regarding their deafening silence during this time of crisis. Somehow I don't think folks are flocking to fashion magazines in these critical times. It's time to spread that 52 mil bucks around. I'll post an answer if it comes. Don't hold your breath. Max Rabbitz (9/18/01; 19:46:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61898) Marie says my gold is on it's way! Actually Marie and my gold shipment is not the subject of this post. I was wondering, with regard to the airlines going down and requiring this fortune of federal support. Why don't the pilot and co-pilot pack just pack a little heat. Are guns evil? What is the problem? R Powell (9/18/01; 19:18:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61897) Silver okay Now down one penny. Some one drawing the Kitco charts must have spilt hot coffee on himself while holding his pen on the chart. turkey hunter (9/18/01; 19:17:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61896) spot silver just got back up Silver is back where it was earlier. R Powell (9/18/01; 19:12:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61895) Silver down Hopefully it's another of Kitco's chart spikes snafus. It is shown as a straight vertical line down as if the price changed in one second. I know silver is a thinly traded market these days but not that thin. Probably another Kitco chart hiccup, but if it's true, I'll buy some more. I learned that from the dot com buyers. "Buy the dips" they called it. It worked well for them for years, just not so well near the end. Rich goldquest (9/18/01; 18:46:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61894) Silver getting pounded down! Off .21 Someone must be demanding delivery.slingshot: Thanks! Leigh (09/18/01; 18:41:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61893) Greenspan's Closed-Door Meeting Tomorrow I think Bill Murphy and the GATA team need to attend tomorrow afternoon's meeting of Rubin and Greenspan and Congress. Bill could bring his charts and one information packet for every member of Congress. But since GATA probably wasn't invited to this exclusive conclave, I think it'd be a GREAT idea for Bill to fax up the information to the Congressmen to prepare them for the meeting. Maybe some "sample" questions could be prepared for them. Hipplebeck (9/18/01; 18:18:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61892) Galearis (09/18/01; 10:02:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61846) I completely agree. This is being morphed into something far greater than going after a murderer. auspec (9/18/01; 18:06:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61891) Midas We know that demand for physical gold is already soaring around the world. What is going to happen to gold demand when US retaliation against the terrorists kicks in? Safe haven buyers around the world will turn to gold even more - sidestepping the dollar then and for years to come. That is what is going to happen. It will be in your face time to The Gold Cartel.Meanwhile back at the ranch, various gold shorts have all sorts of problems that have surfaced simultaneously, as a result of the terrorist attacks.*Half of the deliverable gold that was available to be delivered to Comex longs belongs to Scotia Mocatta and is buried beneath the World Trade Center rubble. Something is not right about that gold. Either it is not there (as per the Fox TV statement), or the shorts know they are in big trouble come the October delivery period because they can't get to the gold to deliver it, if necessary. I say that because a reporter called me today and told me that Scotia will not answer any questions regarding the matter. "Why not?" he probed me.*Some of the big overseas physical gold buyers have contracted to buy gold here in the U.S. from various suppliers to satisfy the demand mentioned above. They need the gold as it is committed to their clients. However, these buyers are used to doing the actual buying on price dips. Thus, word to me is that they are short and very exposed to a price run up. Sources tell me this same crowd was short, like they are now, before the Washington Agreement was announced. Part of the run-up in September 1999 was due to their frantic buying of physical gold. Do we have déjà vu all over again.*With little fanfare the Australian gold price has gone thru the roof. It finished the day in New York at A$588. That is because while the world gold price has soared, the Aussie dollar has tanked to 49.34, only a point off of multi-year lows. About a year ago, I was going on and on that many of the Aussie gold producer hedge books were going underwater. It was widely reported that many bullion dealers were feeling the financial stress and that was with an Aussie gold price of only around A$520. ENDComment: Thanks to all the GATA supporters, as well as those about to {hint, hint}. Hipplebeck (9/18/01; 17:54:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61890) Belgian (09/18/01; 14:38:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61872) Belgian (09/18/01; 14:38:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61872)@ KarenSue...about World Rule ?I'm glad that you left room for having it wrong, because I think you do. The world has always been about competition. That has not changed. The EU is about getting more power.The trend is always towards combining into larger and larger units of control until the people are so repressed they tear it down and start over. The reason it is combining on a world scale is simply because it is now possible. It will grow into a one world government unless the people feel so bound up they tear it down. It is the nature of the beast. Carl H (9/18/01; 17:52:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61889) Greenspan to Meet with Key Lawmakers WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Federal Reserve (news - web sites) Chairman Alan Greenspan (news - web sites) plans to hold a closed-door meeting with U.S. congressional leaders on Wednesday in the wake of last week's devastating hijack attacks, aides said.The meeting comes as Congress weighs new measures aimed at bolstering the U.S. economy and aiding the airline industry, and two days after the central bank cut interest rates by a half percentage point.In addition to Greenspan, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey and former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin were expected to take part in the 3 p.m. meeting with Republican and Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives and the Senate, aides said on Tuesday. CarlH: I wonder why would it be a closed-door meeting and include Robert Rubin....I would sure like to see a full list of invitees... site steward (9/18/01; 17:24:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61888) Bloomberg HEADLINE: U.S. Gold Coin Demand Surges After World Trade Center Attack http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&middle=ad_frame2_all&s=AO6etQhSYVS5TLiBH New York, Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- ``We've sold approximately four to five times as many ounces in a few hours this morning as we've done in the last several months,'' said (Michael) Kramer, head gold trader at MTB Inc. Given ``what happened here, people feel the stock market is going lower, which it has, and a lot of them want a new vehicle to invest in.''-----Further, a bullion trader and numismatist for Stack's in New York said his company halted U.S. Eagle sales from inventory on expectations that the price would go higher. "There's definitely potential for the price to go higher. At least from our inventory, there's no rush to sell."He also indicated, "We had a definite increase in sales, maybe twice the amount we normally get. Whenever there's movement in the stock market, up or down, people get more interested in gold."After all that, the pie-in-the-face award goes to long-time gold giant, Blanchand & Co., whose president Christopher Holton told Bloomberg, ``Last year, we backed off the gold market. We have completely changed our attitude and we recommend that people sell gold. We think that gold as an investment has seen a change over the last several years, from which it's not going to recover. We've seen stocks fall, we've seen oil prices triple. Everything that's supposed to be positive for gold. And gold has done nothing in response.''Can you believe that guy??? Any gold advocate out there who wants to do business with a company that truly believes in gold and understands the market is encouraged to call Centennial with their gold-buying interest. While U.S-based demand may in fact have slacked off in the wake of the impressive Y2K buying spree, all stats reveal that WORLDWIDE gold demand is running at record levels. Blanchard seems to be blinded by fixation on price performance (thus showing complete lack understanding for the elements of price discovery) while at the same time showing a lack of appreciation for the impressive and growing global demand in physical gold. Who *knows* what those guys at B.&Co. are up to...From other sources, it has also been related to me that top precious metals analyst Leanne Baker of SalomonSmithBarney has indicated that the past week's heightened gold demand was indeed reactionary (and justified I might add), but that the effects of the terrorist attack would lead to fundamental demand shifts in the gold market that have yet to be properly reflected in higher prices going forward. (At least that was the gist of it from my phone source.)Bottom line: buy yours now at good prices under the illusion of ample supply.R. Old Yeller (9/18/01; 17:19:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61887) The latest from Stephen Roach http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-perl/bbs.pl?read=182933 Spinning into a worldwide situation that may resemble the recession of 1982(worst case,or is it?).The stresses on the houses made of paper must be getting intense. Netking (9/18/01; 17:19:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61886) UAL to cut 20,000 jobs http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/09/18/companies/ual_cuts/ More bones to the pile . . . United Airlines to cut 20,000 jobs that is 20% of its workforce.Continental Airlines has said it is cutting 12,000 jobs, U.S. Airways said it expects to lay off 11,000 employees and sources with Northwest Airlines have said they plan to announce layoffs in the coming week.As Sir Black Blade would say, in a word, grim. Have you called & bought gold recently?- Netking sourdough (9/18/01; 17:14:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61885) perspective from Singapore business-times September 19, 2001Uncertainty rules in financial markets SOP on global crisis response becomes less than reliable IT used to be so predictable. When a crisis of global proportions strikes, buy US dollars and gold like crazy, sell the most risky assets as quickly as possible, and then wait for the dust to clear before getting back in.But the horror that changed America last week has rendered such ground rules less than reliable. You can't assume that buying US dollars is the best thing to do, and you can't rely on patriotic rallies - as Wall Street's unstoppable fall on Monday confirmed. Worst of all, nobody can even guess when the dust will finally clear, or how the cards will finally fall. Bottom line: Cash up, sell stocks, hedge or reduce US-dollar and risk assets (if you can find a price) on rallies. At least, that's what many traders are telling us in private, even if some - especially those working for fully-invested fund managers - won't want to admit that in public.As one guide, we may see something more than a corrective bounce only if the greenback can surmount, and then stay above, initial resistance areas versus the week's favourite beneficiaries: such as 1.6340-60 Swiss francs, 90.70-90 US cents per euro, 118.70-90 yen, US$1.4530-50 per pound sterling, and S$1.7470-90. The physical aspects of the atrocities in New York City and Washington will be cleared away in time, painful and heart-wrenching though that will undoubtedly be. But it is not at all clear that even an angry and vengeful America can find any reliable way to fight - or estimate the financial repercussions of - a drawn-out war against international terrorism. And about the only thing traders and investors like less than a vacuum is the prospect of a long period of uncertainty. At the most basic level, you just cannot tell a US fund manager who is facing redemptions that he should not sell his investments, but borrow money to pay off his clients instead either. Not when stock markets the world over are crashing around his feet.Also, you cannot, on the one hand, tell American consumers to prepare for the possibility of an expensive, drawn-out military campaign, then, at the same time, ask them to keep on spending money to shore up the US economy.Neither can you guarantee that a related locomotive in the US economy - residential housing - can remain buoyant when the Fed's eighth rate cut on Monday this week sent the cost of long-term money higher rather than lower. The benchmark 10-year US treasury yield actually rose from a 4.5 per cent low last Friday to a 4.64 per cent high yesterday.All of this could not have come at a worse time. Even before the heart-rending events of the past week, more and more analysts had been warning of a synchronous global downturn.And in the immediate term, we have to contend with three potentially troublesome events. For stock markets, this Friday sees the 'triple-witching' expiry of futures, options and index futures in the US. And traders - a superstitious lot, even at the best of times - are already asking what nasty surprises October this year will have in store for them. Remember Oct 19, 1987? For the US dollar, the end of next week also marks the fiscal half-year for Japanese balance sheets - a fact that can explain at least part of the price action in currency markets during the past week. Specifically, the yen's extraordinary strength as investors in the world's largest creditor nation rushed to either hedge or sell foreign currency assets to lock in balance sheet values for Sept 28.As this took place, marginal asset choices like the high-yielding Australian dollar were hit hard, but the US dollar was also hit hard as its refuge status became less of a sure thing - hitting a February low of 116.65 yen on Monday this week.Perhaps even Japanese intervention at those lows can be explained in a similar vein. If the US dollar slides sharply, so does the yen value of the foreign currency assets held as capital by Japanese banks and corporations - particularly important when the Nikkei has simultaneously fallen to 18-year lows. More heavy selling of US dollars versus the yen may therefore be technically delayed until next month. We'll know soon enough.Corrective US dollar and stock market rallies are, of course, possible - and even necessary in these volatile markets. But the biggest fear for now is that they will only provide incentives to sell out - not to accumulate. R Powell (9/18/01; 16:34:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 61884) Economic Fallout Instead of more bones for the pile, the peoples' stock market television channel now describes new reports of layoffs and lower stock prices as "economic fallout". I wonder if anyone measures the emergence of positive versus negative adjectives as a leading indicator. We could call it the EDA or Economic Descriptive Adjectives and we could present them as a ratio, positive divided by negative so that a whole number would indicate a rising number and anything under one (any fraction), a downtrending market. Sorry, I'd better focus my thoughts elsewhere. Dec. silver closed at $4.47!!! Rich site steward (9/18/01; 16:23:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61883) Quarterly gold newsletter available for download http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html International clients (and any others who have fallen off of our domestic mailing list for hard copies) may download the Autumn quarterly News & Views newsletter at the bottom of the newsfeed found at the URL given above.R. site steward (09/18/01; 16:04:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61882) To J.D. who recently registered to post as "njokin" The e-mail you provided was not functional. Please contact me directly by e-mail so that I may provide your posting password. --Randysitemaster@usagold.com Netking (09/18/01; 15:46:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61881) Iraqi connection cont. - Hijacker Met Iraqi http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010918/ts/attack_atta_dc_1.html Snippet:". . . Mohamed Atta, suspected of being one of the hijackers aboard the first plane that struck New York's World Trade Center last week, met earlier this year with an Iraqi intelligence official in Europe, a U.S. government source said on Tuesday.CBS News first reported that Atta had met with the head of Iraqi intelligence. But sources pointed out that just because Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence official did not necessarily mean that the government of Iraq had supported the attacks that demolished the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon (news - web sites).Some intelligence experts have advocated a closer look at whether Iraq had any ties to the assault. Former CIA (news - web sites) Director James Woolsey has been very public about his belief that the high degree of coordination involved in the attack suggested a state sponsor such as Iraq could be involved. . . . " site steward (09/18/01; 15:31:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61880) MK's ABC's of Gold Investing: Protecting Your Wealth Through Private Gold Ownership http://www.usagold.com/cpm/abcs.html Get your copy at the link above, or visit fine bookstores everywhere. site steward (09/18/01; 15:27:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61879) One hand borrows what the other repays KarenSue,I surely agree with your conclusion. It is precisely in line with a series of posts I provided early this year regarding the monetary system's shifting emphasis toward commercial debt in the wake of any legitimate government attempts to run balanced budgets and pay down the accumulated federal debt.Regarding the economic effect, I warned that indeed, debt could be paid off with debt -- so long as the ownership of the new debt burden changed hands. (Like you using a second mortgage to pay off your kid's irresponsible credit card charges. You kid walks while you toil.) The essence of the warning was that any debt repayment efforts by the government would directly compete with private efforts to reduce net debt burderns.I further indicated that, because the U.S. central bank's monetary policy operations is built largely around a base of federal government debt, a massive increase in commercial debt would be required to take up the slack in our debt-based monetary system... inspired, or should I say enabled, by easing interest rates by the FOMC.I suggested at the time that the upside to this was that commercial debt is generally superior to government debt. Meaning, that it is typically more prudently acquired and put to use for economically productive purposes. Market discipline upon defaults ensures that it maintains reasonable value...unlike government debt that genrerally is used to fund additional paper pushers, and may be issued and repaid in an endless cycle of sovereign emission (money printing).But ultimately, commericial-based debt is the proper direction to go. Governments will be more accountable if they must typically balance their spending budgets through taxation alone without borrowing. The citizens are more watchful ofgovernment's wasteful programs when taxes are direct and obvious than when the taxation is hidden through growing inflation from government borrowing.Anyone wanting to see the proper role of gold in such a retooled monetary system need only look to the reserve structure of the euro. Gold is free to fly in value whenever the markets decide to wake up and smell the coffee. However, I'm sure the Eurosystem is happy to see no radical changes until the euro notes and coins are in hand and the citizens are comfortable with the new monetary order of affairs.Good for gold metal and those who save it; bad for gold substitutes.But we've been through this before, so I'll knock off having used this opportunity to provide a "refresher" of an old view from "The Tower".R. slingshot (09/18/01; 15:01:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61878) Uponroof msg#61812 Megatron Msg#61817 Uponroof. Your far from being crazy. I also am aware of of the things that can happen that being Nuclear,Biological and Chemical warfare. If you have not been in the miltary,how are you going to have have some understanding of the problems you may face? Mine was a poor post. How do you keep from yelling fire in a crowded theather when you really smell smoke? I have made preparations for some scary times.If you and Goldquest are Nam Vets I say WELCOME HOME. I was in the miltary but not In Country.Spas Nice, Mossberg 590 with Ghost sights, yepper.Megatron, Don't give up buddy. That's what they want you to do.IMHO. It is important, now more than ever, to own physical Gold.To all at USAGOLD an CPM. This has turn into something more than a Business And a Forum. Thank you for all you have done.Slingshot KarenSue (09/18/01; 14:59:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61877) Sir Belgian Re: your post # 61872 Your posts too wonderful for me. Of course we cannot see things through the same eyes. We are separated by time zones, national boundaries, language, and differing indoctrinations, to just mention some of the problems. I will not even mention religious beliefs and thoughts, which vary much even when they seem to coincide.You have given us so much by tolerating our biased views and still being willing to graciously share the European viewpoint. We will not ever come to complete agreement on many issues; yet, we have a lot of common ground.More, more, more. We desperately need it.Only meKS BR549 (09/18/01; 14:54:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61876) WireTap and other new legislation pending http://library.northernlight.com/EC20010917300000049.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc "From enhanced wiretapping authority to stiffer penalties for those who harbor terrorists, the Bush administration is asking Congress for sharper tools to help solve Tuesday's hijacking disasters."-APThings are much different in times of WAR. I am for solving the hijacking disasters but I hope that these sharper tools do not result in the permanent loss of liberties such as the right to privacy and other rights we enjoy. Once the government takes your liberties, they never seem to find the time in the future to give them back. I suggest that we keep a close eye on the most agreeable Congress in modern times. Their short terms intentions may be good but the long-term affects may not be.@Randy---Whether bin Laden is responsible for 911 or not, he is responsible for the first WTC bombing in the Clinton administration and is under Federal Indictment for that and other terrorists acts. He was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list prior to 911. The pictures that I have seen of him shows him carrying a communications device with an antenna attached to it. Intelligence also reports that he loves cell phones and the internet and set up terrorist cells worldwide. The capture and/or killing of bin Laden is just the beginning of the elimination of terrorism, not the end.Regards, BR549 turkey hunter (09/18/01; 14:46:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61875) Japanese buy 3 tonnes of gold after US attack-WGC TOKYO, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Japanese investors bought about three tonnes of gold bars as safe-haven investments after last week's air attacks in the United States, the World Gold Council (WGC) said on Tuesday. "Based on surveys of Japanese retailers conducted from Wednesday to Monday, we estimate that roughly three tonnes of gold was purchased," said Itsuo Toshima, a regional director of the gold miners' body. "We can say that demand for gold investment rose sharply in Japan, stimulated by the U.S. attacks." Toshima said safe-haven buying of gold was evident in other Asian countries including Thailand and Vietnam, although no estimates of sales volumes were available there. The WGC forecasts that net purchases of gold bars by Japanese investors in the first six months of this year amounted to 20.6 tonnes, down from 26.5 tonnes in the same period last year. Toshima attributed the decrease to the yen's weakness against the dollar, making bullion less affordable for domestic investors. But he said demand was reviving, with investors looking for safe assets in the face of Tokyo's slumping stock prices and concerns over the health of the banking sector. Expectations of imminent U.S. military retaliation for last Tuesday's devastating attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington were also boosting demand, Toshima said. "I expect to see more gold buying toward the end of the year," he said. USAGOLD (09/18/01; 14:43:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61874) Rich. . . News & Views is a labor of love as are my contributions at USAGOLD. News & Views has changed with the times as has our firm and we will continue to do that in the future. As for the book, I discussed re-doing "The 'New & Revised' ABCs of Gold Investing" with my Rod Colvin, my publisher, recently and his question to me at the time was a pertinent one:"Mike, does the current book shortchange the reader?" he asked.That stopped me. Thought about it for a minute and said, "No, I think it's as pertinent now as it was when it was written in 1996.""Then, we shouldn't do anything except whatever minor changes you might have in mind."I've thought about "The 'Advanced' ABCs of Gold Investing" for years. All that it takes is time, and I find that element in increasingly short supply these days. At the same time, I wouldn't rule it out. Many clients, friends and business associates have been after me for years to write "The Advanced ABCs. . . ." We'll see what develops.Thanks for the kind words, Rich, and your support over the years in the form of business. It is your support as well as from all the other wonderful people who visit here and choose to buy gold from us that makes all this possible. We look forward to many more years of association, Rich. KarenSue (09/18/01; 14:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61873) Sir Randy Re: your post #: 61869 THE LOGIC OF THE SNIPPIT Your snippit:------WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Debt outstanding in the non-financial sectors of the U.S. economy continued to grow [at 5.6 percent] in the second quarter, as borrowing by households, businesses and state and local governments increased faster than the federal government paid off debt, the Federal Reserve said on Tuesday.-------My thoughts:The logic of such a happening: - Nations, like individuals, cannot consume more than they produce without taking on an equal amount of debt to offset the excess consumption.Since our nation still imports more than it exports, the required debt to finance that economic decision must be taken on by either the national government or by the individuals of that nation involved in excess consumption.As long as we have a trade deficit sumultaneously with the so-called retirement of national debt, the slack, of necessity, must be taken up by the private borrowings of our citizens and our native industries. No other situation could allow for this so-called debt liquidation in the face of production shortfall against consumption.Does this make sense? Is it too simplistic?Only meKS Belgian (09/18/01; 14:38:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61872) @ KarenSue...about World Rule ? Yourself and many americans, are presently, very shocked and impressed by the tragedy. And surely not without reason ! These strong emotions must surely add to some dark thougths on demons, such as "world rule" or used/abused, new world order, etc...The past 30 yrs, give lots of reasons to think so. The gigantic management is adding to such (fatalistic) thinking.And I do agree with you upon to a certain level. But in contrast with you, I do see, the big openings for more global optimism. The mentionned big five are in different start up phases. It is my main argument against your world rule >>>> an idea as old as the street.Americans have a complete different vieuw on the world than europeans do. It strikes me how the notion of patriotism is still working in the US. This is not the case for EMU.It would lead us too far to explain all other differences in order to explain your pessimistic vieuw. EMU has no world rule ambitions. Perhaps wrong, but I'm seeing the US as an aging (agonising) world dominator. The dollar-godfather, who has to admit that his sons (big five) are growing up and indicate their choice of way of life.This is a conflicting process. And the godfather wants to eliminate all (bad) influences, because fathers know what is best. The sons/daughters, comply only partially, for many different reasons.With 28 different channels on our TV, we have a broad range spectrum vieuw. There is not one and only ruler possible overhere. We went through this 50 years ago. And it will take a prolonged economical catastrophy, to resussitate that old demon of totalitarism. That's why so much attention is given to the four other brothers/sisters, with development in progress. Not with the intention to dominate them but for opportunistic and pragmatic economic expansion.Socialists (national-international) have lost their grip on the homo economicus !!!! The try to install polarization (left-right). It is not working. Russians and Chineze want to be part of this model of homo economicus in the nearby future. They have witnessed how it looks like to be one of them. And we are talking about a few billion people overthere. This same evolution is happening in the extension of 300 million EMUs to 500 million.Does such an ongoing evolution looks like a one world ruler system to you ? And I will fully agree, with you, that this movement is not that visible already and surely not promoted in the US. Europ too has been a victim of indiscriminate terror (30 yrs of age) !Post factum, I must admit that it has been handled very wisely. And admit that I'm not in the capacity to do the same if it should have affected me. Hoping that with this argumentation, some twinkle of optimism has reached you ?The European attitude towards the US is not at all unfriendly or competive/hostile. A divided and united in difference EMU, is evidence against one world, one ruler.And this is said by an euro-critical-belgian-student, who has to admit that he is too stupid to understand the whole story. The last Sierra Madre post was frightening. I'll leave enough space for having it wrong. site steward (09/18/01; 14:35:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61871) Fed adds $36.35 billion in reserves to nation's banking system Providing funds at the new FOMC target, 3.0 percent, it seems like a gift to the banks that appear to have ample reserves on hand already -- the market in overnight fed funds was trading at the sloshy rate of only 1.75 percent.These are the things that hyperinflation is made of.If/when that unfolds, you will need hard assets such as gold to prevent the evaporation of purchasing power of any of your savings held now in typical paper forms.R. R Powell (09/18/01; 14:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61870) News and Views / Usagold My copy came in yesterday's mail. I was very happy to see it is much larger than normal. My first issue came after I answered an ad, in the Financial Times, I believe. It was those early issues that led me here and it is in appreciation of this site and the continuing "News and Views" that I buy (silver) from CPM. What probably started as an advertising promotion, to promote CPM as well as your other views, has not only succeeded but flourished. It has grown beyond mere advertising. I hope you enjoy producing it as much as I anticipate receiving it. Thank you. Also, I'm eagerly anticipating the publication of your next book. Which one? It's the one I hope you're working on now. David Morgan reports that he's working on one pertaining to silver. I'd also like to see Jim Paplava combine his 10 part "Perfect Storm" series into book form. I've mentioned it to him but I'm afraid my influence is extremely limited, although I did offer to buy many copies (Christmas presents) if it happens. Food for thought. Rich site steward (09/18/01; 14:14:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61869) The stuff hyperinflations are made of http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010918/business_economy_debt_dc_1.html According even to the somewhat bias official statistics, the U.S. economy is teetering on the brink of negative growth and recession. We've all seen the yearlong drastic easing of monetary policy by our nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve. In this article, coupled with the previous one today about the expected increase in near-future government spending, we can all see where we are headed.------WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Debt outstanding in the non-financial sectors of the U.S. economy continued to grow [at 5.6 percent] in the second quarter, as borrowing by households, businesses and state and local governments increased faster than the federal government paid off debt, the Federal Reserve said on Tuesday.-------The article indicates that non-financial debt grew by 5.5 percent in the first quarter of this year. Most chilling -- in light of the new expectations for additional federal spending (sans taxes) -- is that the NONfederal component of borrowing seen here in the second quarter increased by 8.3 percent. The money is "easy", and it is in fact being borrowed into a recessionary economy. Yikes!R. R Powell (09/18/01; 14:01:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61868) Airlines bailout Randy, What progress can you report to us concerning the gold bailout? Will the Bush Administration have a gold investors bailout ready by early next week? Have we forwarded "the necessary information from the industry to proceed with a financial rescue plan"? Has the gold/mining industry "warned the White House and Congress that it is facing dire financial hardship"? Actually, the problem is how to convince them to stop meddling, leave the market forces alone to find their own way, unencumbered with government interference, however well intentioned. The problem is, once they start it's hard to simply stop entirely without precipitating all the market adjustment which they're past interventions have delayed or altered. Even now airline stocks are not reflecting their true value as this coming bailout has been anticipated and is reflected in share prices. Our old friend, Ben Franklin, once said, "That government is best which governs least." Smart fellow that Benjamin. Rich USAGOLD (09/18/01; 13:55:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61867) Cavan Man. . .You saw it coming Come to think of it, you did leave a message along those lines yesterday, didn't you? Only your view had a bit more finality to it -- as in its all over but the news stories and the pundits explanations. . . . .Those long drives can be fruitful, it seems. Thanks, CM. MK Cavan Man (09/18/01; 13:48:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61866) USAGOLD Where have I heard that before? (smile) site steward (09/18/01; 13:46:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61865) Miscellaneous gold news http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010918/n18495062_1.html The following excerpts should help provide support for the perspective I tried to deliver early today:----NEW YORK, Sept 18 (Reuters) - COMEX gold futures slipped again Tuesday, as Wall Street regained composure one week after the destruction of the World Trade Center caused conniptions in global equity markets and put a shine back on the yellow METAL as a sanctuary for capital.The active December CONTRACT ended DOWN $1.80 at $289.70 an ounce, trading from $292 to $287.60 in a jittery half-day session that was interrupted minutes into trade by a bomb hoax that cleared the New York Mercantile Exchange building were NYMEX's COMEX division is also housed. ``We just had a bomb scare. We're just coming back up and I'm not really in any condition to talk to anybody right now,'' said a shaken floor broker from the side of the gold ring.------It's not too hard to see why the value of contracts might actually be falling in this uncertain economic climate. Investors are keen enough to recognize the difference between paper (contracts) and the real thing (metal). A boon for metal buyers at this time is that spot prices are still derivived from the price discovery occurring on the futures exchange. (Any guesses how long this bogus pricing scheme will endure? The Japanese are reported to have bought three tonnes of gold bars last week, and the World Gold Council indicated that there was a rush for gold in other Asian countries. (You saw my photo-link to Thailand sales today, right?))And beyond the burial of nearly half of the COMEX registered gold inventory that I mentioned earlier today, further damage to sentiment in this "substitute gold" market is surely provided by the current reduction in COMEX trading hours to just three -- from 9:35 to 12:35 Eastern time. (Normally it trades from 8:20 to 2:30 Eastern time).This article reports Leonard Kaplan of Prospector Asset Management saying, "Last week's events forever changed the gold market, no matter what happens in the next few weeks. The USD, which had been the ultimate 'safe haven' for investors, is no longer viewed as such."Bottom line: today is a fine day to diversify your portfolio into a good quantity of physical gold.R. USAGOLD (09/18/01; 13:34:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61864) Randy. . . Socialism indeed. These measures are likely to result in a) higher taxesb) the hidden tax of inflation- - - two hallmarks of socialist government wherever it sinks its virulent roots.With respect to the bonds, there could also be "insurance company dumping" on top of "inflationary expectation" dumping. I read this morning that at least two insurance companies are close to denying benefits on "act of war" clauses. You can always count on the insurance companies when the chips are down, can't you? Gold, as you often say, carries no such counter-party risk. It is what it is and does not promise to be anything else. In fact, it doesn't need to. Aside: Holger Jensen, a foreign policy expert for Scripps Howard papers, said in this morning's Rocky Mountain News that he questions it was bin Laden who planned the WTC attack. He said it was way too sophisticated to be planned from the wilds of Afghanistan. Too much co-ordination required in a country that essentially has no communication or transportation infrastructure. He mentioned Iraq as a suspect and generally raised a yellow flag on reacting in the wrong way against the wrong enemy -- not that bin Laden shouldn't be taken out for what his wanted poster says -- the past crimes he has perpetrated against the United States. All: We are back to business as usual. Business and inquries are very strong. Just wanted to get a short message out.My best to all. . . . . Clint H (09/18/01; 13:27:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61863) Sierra Madre msg#: 61847) Sierra Madre msg#: 61847)Galearis made the following point, <<The next preliminary stage of waris attitude adjustmentI suppose it would be a good time right now to remind everyone that at this stage of "pre-war" preparations the propaganda mill cranks up its imput to the media and becomes filled with deceitful lies.>>Sierra Madre, What compelled you to post this when it may be misinformation? Can you back it up? site steward (09/18/01; 13:05:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61862) Bush Admin Moves Ahead with Airline Bailout... does this mean we have become socialists? http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010918/business_attack_airlines_dc_8.html WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said on Tuesday the Bush administration hoped to have a U.S. airline bailout proposal ready by early next week. ... said the administration had received the necessary information from the industry to proceed with a financial rescue plan.He did not say whether that plan would match the $24 billion sought by the industry, which has warned the White House and Congress that it is facing dire financial hardship.-----Whenever the government actively meddles with the economic reins of market discipline, you will want to change horses and seek refuge in the safety of independent assets such as gold.R. KarenSue (09/18/01; 13:02:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61861) Belgian (Re your post # 61854 Belgian, Sir, you say:"KarenSue, you are giving a perfect description of the present un-freedom, but make the wrong (linear-pessimistic)future projection."International Socialism is dead and hopelessly strugglingto find a reason to survive. The economical orchestrated magic (consumerism) and the individual blitzzkrieg terrorist wars (30 years old), make the socialists (collectivists), un-necessary and useless."End of QuoteKS Reply:You have just proven my point.International Socialism is not dead. National Socialism is not dead. The American attempt for a Republic form of government is dead. The struggle for power has shifted to a choice between two ideologies, both totalitarian in nature – International Socialism and National Socialism. My firm belief is that International Socialism will win out and will appear in the form of One World Government. If I were to be wrong and National Socialism win's out the dire results will not be considerably different (Hitler would have never been satisfied until he ruled the world) the elimination of a middle class. There will be four classes in either case: 1) Rulers -tyrants 2) Bureaucrats -puppet police 3) Serfs - passive slaves and informants 4) Criminals - subversives and undesirables in hiding These same four classes were found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. A question arises for each individual of the world. One should take a look at theses four classes, and ask this question, "To which class will I belong?"The fall of the USSR, pay it no mind. Chinese dominance, pay it no mind? World rule will rise above national concerns and will turn nations into regional administrative puppet-like entities. A single international currency (cashless and electronic eventually) coupled with required universal identification papers (paperless and electronic eventually) will provide the necessary vehicles for the complete control required for such a despicable class system.I have been studying this in light of the immutable word of God for many years. Events of prophecy are clearly falling into line. Many will guess and miss as to the chronology of events. I have found that one must forget chronology and timing, which cannot be predicted, but to ignore events after the fact will lead one to doubt the coming to pass of events, which have not yet been fulfilled.Sadly, I expect to be considered an undesirable criminal and expect that hiding will be short-lived and in vain. I hold no ill will towards those who might choose to become passive slaves and informants. They cannot help their lack of understanding and their inability to stand in the face of torture and death. Who knows, I may not be able to stand, but there will be those who will stand to the death.I trust that you understand that I still hold you in very, very high regard, for you are one of the most intellectually honest persons I have ever had the privilege of getting to know. Friends, at least, to the end, yes?Only meKS site steward (09/18/01; 12:53:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61860) Weak global economy gets weaker... http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010918/l18381518_1.html LONDON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - British Airways and other European airlines said on Tuesday they had pulled multi-million dollar advertising campaigns in the face of an industry crisis following the attacks in the United States. ...European airlines joined U.S. rivals by putting a halt to advertising, much of which is considered inappropriate and too costly in the current circumstances.-----How much of the tremendous infusion of new "easy money" do you believe will be put to productive economic uses? This is the stuff that hyperinflations are made of. Protect your savings with a diversification into hard assets such as gold.R. Galearis (09/18/01; 12:41:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61859) cessation of trading at COMEX Kitco.com Apparently there was (were) bomb scare(s).I don't suppose the little spikes in silver these last two trading days reflect the first worries trickling down about the strategic importance of silver to a war machine?Good timing for a problem with a spike.G. site steward (09/18/01; 12:30:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61858) European CBs last week unload 2.3 billion in foreign paper, sell 39 million in gold. The EUR 39 million decline among the gold and gold receivable assets was due to 3.6 tonnes sold (likely by the Netherlands) in the ongoing reallocation program under the September 1999 Central Bank Gold Agreement (the so-called Washington Agreement).Gold and gold receivables listed on the Eurosystem's consolidated financial statement for last week now total EUR 128.229 billion.With respect to the Eurosystem's net holdings of foreign paper assets, this latest EUR 2.3 billion decline (following the EUR 800 million decline for the previous week) was somewhat muted by an increase in IMF receivables totaling EUR 2.2 billion last week. The result was a net decline of EUR 100 million to the Eurosystem's net position in foreign currency, now standing at EUR 272.5 billion.The next quarterly revaluation (mark to market) of the Eurosystem assets will occur next Friday, September 28th.R. Netking (09/18/01; 12:24:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61857) PM Preparation A good quote in todays E Mail worth repeating & contemplating: ------------------------------------------------------------"America is at War. Consider for a minute that perhaps the greatest battle will be fought on the economic front. Russian people are now encouraged to turn in their US currency for gold coins. If China dumps its US Treasuries, you will feel the impact! Prepare yourself," - David Morgan Galearis (09/18/01; 12:22:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61856) @ SteveH limit ups on COMEX? Hello,I was pondering the same thing. There seems to be a cessation of trading on COMEX between (approximately) ten am and eleven am plus another between one and two this pm of the same duration. This shows in gold, silver and platinum. A glitch in someones system perhaps. COMEX or Kitco.G. CoBra(too) (09/18/01; 12:12:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61855) Terror Structure The top man of Austrian Military Intelligence, Mr. Schenz (Heeres Nachrichten Amt) has stipulated in tonights news that the US intelligence community were well aware of an impending major terror strike. They, however, did not ever dream of a strike on US soil, nor the immensity of the attack.He went on saying that he feels that the organizational structure of the terrorist cell must have a very lean central command structure, headed by a strategic genius.FWIW - cb2 Belgian (09/18/01; 11:57:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61854) @ KarenSue (Henri) KarenSue's posting # 61754 : Article "5" (NATO) is the horizontalizer ! All actions against the terror-criminals must have a consensus ! If justice and punishment, tumbles into blind revenge...there will be a breaking point in the coalition. Please, investigate the ongoing intensive debates in Europ about the tragedy (causes and consequences).There is no such thing as a single power structure. Europ / China / Russia / Middle East, are preparing to step on the power-podium, and are/will challenge the past 30 years of US leadership ! It is exactly on this evolving event, thata big mistake (miscalculation) is beeing made ! The (regrettable) succes of the recent terror, will make this new power-balancing, more visible. Step by step.But the child will not be throwen away with the bathwater.Everything that the US builded globally, and is OK, will stay in place.KarenSue, you are giving a perfect description of the present un-freedom, but make the wrong (linear-pessimistic)future projection.International Socialism is dead and hopelessly strugglingto find a reason to survive. The economical orchestrated magic (consumerism) and the individual blitzzkrieg terrorist wars (30 years old), make the socialists (collectivists), un-necessary and useless.I do not believe in only one big -Log Ness - global -monster. The next decade is the struggle for global influence by the big five : USA / Europ / China / Middle East / Russia. I am afraid, terribly afraid that "terrorism" will be the ugliest tool to speed things up. Forget about the missile shield and all super high tech stuff on war-affairs. * THE * change is from power-building-states to unlimited individual warriors with any kind of terror at their disposal. How many enola gays are we going to use to eradicate this evil ? How many Chamberlains will start talks to CONSOLIDATE the present power-dominance ?There are no Chamberlains needed anymore. Talk is done between the big five and they will balance each other.It is the magnitude and scale of succes that the recent crime (milestone in 30 yrs), scored, that is slowly filtering through, the massive grief and anger, that has shocked all power-participants. Of course, this is all and ONLY, opinion of an ordinarry citizen and student, from Belgium. Without TG's background, I would never have developed such thinking. And above everything, never have understood the role of Gold in all this.Another's theory is not horizontalist per se to me. Only enlightment on some aspects of the processus of change and its transition period.He/she, who believes that the present "almost" perfect management of the virtual economy will last for ever, makes most probably the biggiest mistake ever. Megatron, good knight # 61817 : don't give up now !Thank you KarenSue for your contribution. site steward (09/18/01; 11:50:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 61853) U.S. Treasuries plunge as investors recognize inflationary actions http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010918/nat000265_2.html NEW YORK, Sept 18 (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury 30-year bonds plunged more than two full points on Tuesday as traders expected more government debt to flood the market... government spending was expected to rise after the attacks, meaning the Treasury may begin issuing more debt to the market. Last week, Congress quickly approved $40 billion for counterterrorism efforts and disaster relief.---The presence of weakening sentiment for U.S. debt is revealed in this article as John Roberts, head of government bond trading at Barclays Capital Group, said:"People are starting to look at how much money is going to be spent. Look at how quickly they lopped off $40 billion, boom, done. And they haven't even gotten started yet."On top of this, the Treasury Department indicated yesterday that it canceled its planned bond buybacks this month.R. RS (09/18/01; 11:45:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 61852) clarification Please allow me to add to my earlier post #61848 lest I be misunderstood...I believe that any effort of relief for the starving people of Afghanistan should be accomplished through private charitable efforts, not by government using taxes pried from the hands of working Americans.Excuse me for not making myself clear on this before.-----------------------------------------Karen Sue, re: usagold.com msg#: 61754Please allow me to humbly add my voice of agreement.I could not have stated it so well as you have done.I wish all here the best in these very troubled times. SteveH (9/18/01; 11:44:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61851) Did the silver market go limit up this afternoon?http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html BR549 (9/18/01; 11:40:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61850) nickel62 (msg#: 61841)--- For one that "find(s) it better to just duck the type of arguement" you sure do a lot of posts on this subject. Please go back and read any of my previous posts and kindly point out to me where I have advocated "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Or the hurting of innocent people. In response to the terrorists attack on 911 your solution is…..........?I thought so.BR549 site steward (9/18/01; 11:27:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 61849) Add two major central banks to the list http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010918/t141_8.html With the Bank of Japan and Bank of England joining in the global loosening of monetary policy (creating "easy money"), these actions tell of the depth of the financial crisis while concurrently setting the stage for future inflation.From this article, Mark Tinker, global head of strategy at Commerzbank in London, is quoted as saying, "This is part of the coordinated move by all the central banks to ensure stability in the financial system. They're cutting rates to make sure the financial system doesn't lock up at a time when there's an awful lot of strain being put on it."Japan more than cut its discount rate in half, dropping the 0.25 percent rate to 0.1 percent, making "easy money" almost free.Meanwhile, the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee conducted its first-ever emergency meeting, and lowered its key repo rate by 25 basis points, to 4.75 percent.The following is an overview of the cut in rates by various central banks. (And for the major banks, an indication of the resulting key interest rates is also provided.)-------------U.S. Federal Reserve eased by 50 basis points. (3 percent)European Central Bank (representing 12 European nations) eased by 50 basis points. (3.75 percent)Bank of England eased by 25 basis points. (4.75 percent)Bank of Japan eased by 15 basis points (0.10 percent)Bank of Canada eased by 50 basis points. (3.5 percent)As you can see, of the major nations, the United States has an easy monetary policy that is only second to Japan at giveaway rates.In addition to Monday's 50 basis point cut by the Swiss National Bank, I am also aware of similar-sized rate cuts Tuesday by Denmark, Hong Kong, Kuwait and Taiwan.I have it on good authority that Mother Earth did not ease its grip on gold ore, leaving gold in hand as precious today as it ever was. That is not to say that the bullion banks haven't maintained their temporarily successful hand in creating the ongoing illusion of abundant gold supplies through the vast issue of various paper substitutes. You either have it, or you don't.Don't be fooled. Settle for nothing short of the real thing.R. RS (9/18/01; 10:58:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61848) @ Mr Gresham - usagold.com msg#: 61845) --- Brilliant! Sir Gresham,Thank you for your combination of rational logic and compassion.I cannot find words to describe my horror and condemnation of the attack perpetrated on this nation-If we can determine the actual culprits behind last week's criminal attacks, then no punishment is harsh enough, in my opinion. However, in the midst of the inevitable saber-rattling and chest-thumping, I want to thank you for offering an alternative to punishing an entire population for the acts of a few.Much has been said about the differences in religious ideology between east and west, and you have offered an excellent notion to show that both Islam and Christianity share common values.Christ often used extreme contrasts in his parables and teachings to make a point. We have an opportunity to show the eastern world the contrast between American ideals and those of the people who have attacked us. Sierra Madre (9/18/01; 10:53:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61847) I feel a duty to post this. Very important. I just got the following e-mail, which should be read by all interested in the future of the USA. The first message is the reply of a very devout, good and kind Jew who is not a Zionist, to another Jewish friend of his who had sent him the message which appears below his. You will read the reply first, then the message that caused the reply.E-mail text as follows, senders' identities withheld.:You know the author of this, if not, ask me. Fits with yours. E.Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 6:42 PMSubject: Re: The Jewish problem:>> Dear Morris:>> I sent you a copy of the Goldman Sachs note from a Jewish executive at> Goldman Sachs showing his appreciation for the analysis regarding the> missing suitcase nuclear bombs from Kazakhstan. He did not regard it as> anti-Jewish.>> My brother, who has lived in Pakistan, and knows intelligence procedures> very well, (and dug out the murders by Henry Kissinger of the leader of> Bangladesh and his family presently in a new book by ChristopherHitchens) > suggested to me the possibility that the World Trade Center bombing unitwas> an Israeli cutout unit. He says it can work this way. The Israeli> intelligence service obtains the services of a turncoat Arabian, who> develops, motivates and inspires a group of cells that are switched on at> the appropriate time after many years. At this moment the Israelis were> under a growing terrorist siege, and the world was turning against them.A> way to galvanize the west behind them would have been to target the World> Trade Center, destroy it, and thereby thwart the gigantic pressures that> were upon them.>> The Israeli state was founded in terrorism. The British, who saved theJews> in Europe by fighting Germany, found themselves thanked by the Ziionistsby> their being made targets of terrorism by the very Jews that they hadfought> to save. Their organizations were named the Irgun and Stern gang. One of> the terrorist targets was the King David hotel where many were killed.> Another was Count Bernadotte who tried to mediate the dispute between the> Arabians and the Israelites. And thousands and millions of others at> outlined below.>> I did not distribute my brother's theory because I thought it was too> volatile even as a hypothesis to test, and I cannot say it is true, though> it was reminiscent of the killing of Archduke Ferdinand at Saravejo byBaron> Eduard de Rothschild in his effort to destroy the Tsar and his governmentby> starting the European war. As you know, when that had not worked, four> years later Baron Eduard arranged for Lenin and his crew, which weremostly> Jewish, to be transported to Russia to conduct the Russian Revolutionusing> Parvus as his supervisor, and General Ludendorf> made the arrangements.>> General Ludendorf made a number of interesting observations in his "War> Memoirs." First, he said he never dreamed that the Bolsheviks would hold> their power, and had used this merely as a device to knock Russia out sohe> could turn his armies from the east to the western front. Second, he felt> the "Balfour Declaration" thwarted this victorious policy by securingJewish> support for Britain and France in the war, and facilitated the Jewish> pressure on the United States to enter the war therby nullifying the> advantage of switching the eastern German armies to the western frontafter> knocking the Tsar out. Germany would otherwise have won. As CharlesBeard> wrote in the "Devil's Theory of War," both the Rothschild firm and their> subsidiary in the United States, J.P. Morgan, then pressured Wilson into> declaring war on Germany to save the Rothschild and Morgan loans to France> and England thereby betraying the very Germany that the Rothschild's had> used to knock out the Tsar, and through the Landgrave of Hess, gave them> their start. Ironic it was, and this unscrupulous Landgrave would be> turning over in his grave if he knew that Baron Eduard gave the order to> execute the Tsarina Alexandra, Princes of Hess, and his descendant, and> guaranteed Lenin that there would be no foreign intervention according to> Dr. Franz Pick again.>> This gives some picture of the background of the creation of the Zionist> state on the backs of tens of millions of Europeans slain so needlessly to> further the ambitions Baron Eduard de Rothschild had for his banking power> and his people. While Dr. Franz Pick was the source of much of this> information, I was able to find sources that backed up his statements.>> Consequently, the state of siege that Israel now finds itself, and thefact> that it is bleeding profusely, is in a sense a measure for measure kind of> historical replay for the millions of dead in the battlefields of Europe> that died for the creation of this state, and the sins of the fathers are> being visited on their descendants. I see here the hand of God.>> I am certainly not against Israelites who support the Holy Scripture. But> the Israelis for the most part do not. I have explained to my father thatI> believe the Israelis, and Israel, that was created as a saftey valve--at> least to him--for the escape of the Jews from persecution has become asnare> jeopardizes the lives of all Jews throughout the world.>> Now, I did not create this situation. Nor, do I want to support a state> that is hateful of Biblical values and in a real political sense isfighting> a billion members of Islam in a hopeless conflict. By drawing the United> States into that conflict, Israel and the Jews are asking Americans torisk> millions of lives to support a group of people that wishes to live> unbiblical lives in a holy land that was only given to them if theyobserved> the commandments.>> Now, I have hundreds of people on my list, but they do not receive this> message, only the general ones that address security issues. But Ibelieve> it is my duty to be loyal to the people of the United States by not asking> them to do or support something that is not their business, andconstitutes> an anti-Biblical entity.>> I am not the only one that would be hated by the Jews. The Neturei Karta,> and the Satmar, are similarly hated for opposing Zionism. But by asking> Jews to return to the Bible we are really their only true friends, forthose> that ask for support for unbiblical Jews are only fostering something that> is bad, and misleading Jews into thinking they will prosper when they walk> in the imagination of their hearts to add drunkenness to thirst. It is no> friend to support a fellow Jew pursue the course that will destroy him.It> is the true friend and lover of Israel that will point out the sins, andask> them to repent. Your charges, therefore, are emotional, illogical and> unjust.>>> Sincerely,>>>> David> >From: ......> >To: .......> >Subject: Re: The Jewish problem:> >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:10:40 EDT> >> >david my friend,> >> >you are the single most anti-semitic person I know. why not vent your> >spleen> >on the worthless arab vermin. jews provide bost the best and the worst> >things in the world. while you consider yourself to be saintly and godly> >G-d> >has other plans for you because you foment hatred towards His chosen.> >> >Jeremiah tried to turn his people towards the righteous path. he did not> >go> >about babylon disparaging his fellow jews to the goyim nor did he advise> >nebuchadnezzar how best to destroy jerusalem.> >> >if you don't stop advocating that america cease its support for israel i> >will> >call your father and worse yet, my mother and rat you out.> >> >the arabs are scum. they continue to be a blight upon the face of the> >earth.> > G-d will wipe them out with a plague.>> Galearis (09/18/01; 10:02:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61846) The next preliminary stage of war is attitude adjustment I suppose it would be a good time right now to remind everyone that at this stage of "pre-war" preparations the propaganda mill cranks up its imput to the media and becomes filled with deceitful lies.Watch what happens, the big scale events, not the small and inflamatory rhetoric and speculation. Right now, according to "reports", the mighty US and allies are prepared to invade a country to "arrest" a suspect.There seems to be little speculation that Bin Laden may be the patsey here in a deflection scheme.Everything is moving much too fast! I fear a great tragedy is afoot.G. Mr Gresham (09/18/01; 09:50:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61845) AFGHANISTAN: World Food Programme warns of 'pre-famine conditions' http://www.reliefweb.int/IRIN/asia/countrystories/afghanistan/20010906.phtml "People are surviving on eating grass, locusts and bread crumbs in some areas, and their food intake has been drastically reduced."A "golden" opportunity to show what America is "really all about," don't you think?A little "butter" to go with our guns? Henri (09/18/01; 08:57:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61844) Belgian msg 61751 and Karen Sue Msg #61754 Thank you both for your clarifications. Belgian: This was also my impression that the structure of the Euro precluded the issuance of sovereign (if there is such a thing anymore :-)KS) government debt denominated in Euro's. I thought it brilliant and essentially a horizontal thinking concept. The ability of the US govt to incur debt has been its downfall and the first instance began the long road to ruin. At least several of the founding fathers had warned against this. The practice was made manifest with the takeover of US financial interests by the global banking cartel in 1913 with formation of the Federal Reserve Bank. I had been favorably impressed with the structure of the new fiat system as a corrective measure for what was obviously wrong with the US structure. Time will tell. I still wonder how the socialists will extract their living at the expense of others industry under these conditions. The only avenue left is by taxation of business profits and personal income.If the Euro-zone is to move in the direction of establishing its own military strength, the funds must come from the same source. It will be interesting to see who wins that tug of war.Karen Sue: All I can say is WOW! Glad to have incited you to unburden yourself and yes, you have suceeded in making yourself clear this time. I had not known of your personal beliefs that now make sense of your reaction. BTW do you have any names to put to this faceless organization of financial interests? Do you feel they had anything to do with Tuesday's events in NYC? Perhaps the US was becoming too persnickidy in the face of the looming massive financial defaults taking shape. Perhaps they bestowed upon us the watershed event that swung things back around to their favor. I would say issuance of an additional 40 billion in US govt debt would make them the direct beneficiaries of the tragedy. And another 23 billion to bail out the airlines? Hmmm. I hope to God this was not the case. The CoinGuy (09/18/01; 08:49:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61843) All I was talking to my broker on the phone, but thought I heard a blurb on CNBC about the NYMEX being evacuated. Did I hear things? The chart at Kitco seems to have turned flat.The CoinGuy Tommy P (09/18/01; 08:29:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61842) Wag the Dog Subject: FW: Indy media reports: Footage of palestinians celebrating taken from 1991Footage of Palestinians celebrating is a hoax! check this out: What makes good television? Another angle to what the media is reporting (english) by Marcio 10:32pm Wed Sep 12 '01 (Modified on 2:17am Thu Sep 13 '01) CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE of celebrating Palestinians to manipulate you. The Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making funny faces for the camera. Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an issue. A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991, withthe very same images; he's been sending emails to CNN, Globo (the major TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify as a crime against the public opinion. If anyone of you has access to this kind of files, search for it. In the meanwhile, I'll try to 'put my hands' on a copy of this tape. nickel62 (09/18/01; 07:50:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61841) A psychiatrist friend of mine who is dying of cancer just sent me this article..I thought BR549 might like to comment.. Lizbeth T. Binks, Ph.D.drlbinks@bcpl.netSubject: Re: From an Afghani woman This is from Tamim Ansary, a writer and columnist in San Francisco whois a native of Afghanistan. * * * * I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this wouldmean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with thisatrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What elsecan we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have thebelly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because Iam from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've neverlost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who willlisten how it all looks from where I'm standing.I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubtin my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.I agree that something must be done about those monsters.But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not eventhe government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorantpsychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a politicalcriminal with a plan.When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, thinkHitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews inthe concentration camps."It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with thisatrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exultif someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rat'snest of international thugs holed up in their country.Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? Theanswer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. Afew years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabledorphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There aremillions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive inmass graves.The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed bythe Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people havenot overthrown the Taliban.We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the StoneAge.Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?Done.Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals?Done.Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and healthcare? Too late. Someone already did all that.New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they atleast get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Talibaneat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide.Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't movetoo fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul anddropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who didthis horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with theTaliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this timeSo what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with truefear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there withground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to bedone" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many asneeded. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killinginnocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually onthe table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would diefighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's muchbigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'dhave to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Willother Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirtingwith a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what hewants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's allright there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seemridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and theWest, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in thoselands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even betterfrom Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the Westwould win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years andmillions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?Bin Laden does. Anyone else? Tamim Ansary nickel62 (09/18/01; 07:40:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61840) AEL thank you for your response..to our friend... I get too impatient and find it better to just duck the type of arguement that BR549 finds so compelling. Black Blade (9/18/01; 06:37:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61839) BOJ steps in to boost dollar http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20010918a3.htm Snippit:The Bank of Japan on Monday went on a dollar-buying spree to stem further falls in the U.S. currency in the aftermath of the Sept.11 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.Black Blade: Not only is the BOJ rumored to be buying the Nikkei in a Very Big Way, they are also propping up the USD. May they have more success at it than the FED. "Interesting Times" Black Blade (9/18/01; 06:33:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61838) Room for steeper Wall St. losses http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BB31247E3%2D0E0B%2D4A95%2D9A9B%2DDC6F77081B19%7D&siteid=mktw Forecasts still 30% higher than current levelsSnippit:Wall Street analysts this week are busy lowering their fourth-quarter corporate profit forecasts, with guidance from executives. "The terrorists couldn't have picked a worse time for us," said Chuck Hill, research director of Thomson Financial/First Call. The best-case fourth-quarter guess before the attacks was that earnings would fall 5 percent from a year ago. Hill said a drop of 10 percent to 15 percent was more likely.Black Blade: Stocks are mostly very grossly overvalued. We have a long ways to go in the current Stock Market Crash. Black Blade (9/18/01; 06:10:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61837) British Air Says to Adjust Ops, Cut Jobs http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010918/business_attack_airlines_ba_dc_1.html Snippit:LONDON (Reuters) - Europe's biggest airline British Airways Plc signaled on Tuesday it would follow its rivals in cutting transatlantic flights and axing jobs in the wake of last week's attacks on the United States. Black Blade: The "Bone Pile" grows with Virgin Airlines tossing 1200 nonessential "Bags of Bones" onto the ever-growing "Bone Pile." Now BA to cast aside more nonessential "Bags of Bones." The employment picture will look horrific when the numbers are released for this month.Today is the Jewish New Year - Could there be more terrorist acts starting today? Hmmm… Black Blade (9/18/01; 06:02:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61836) Another Down Opening Expected on Wall St. http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010918/business_markets_stocks_dc_1.html Snippit:NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks are expected to fall at the open on Tuesday, a day after one of the biggest drops ever, as anxious investors grapple with the risk of a global recession, more violence and another hit to corporate earnings a week after a terror attack shocked the nation.Black Blade: It was bad before the terrorist attacks, and it is so much worse now. Earnings will dive and so will the market. There is no positive news. Only Gold shares seem to have done well. Cheryl Strauss Einhorn of BARRON'S has been choking on her words lately. Funny thing is that she had touted the market - maybe if she just replaced the word "Gold" with the words "Tech and Dot.Com Stock Shares" she would have been close to the mark. Cavan Man (9/18/01; 06:01:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 61835) megatron and Forum There is large buying coming out of Vietnam. This is according to a friend who is well placed to know the details. That's all I know. If tiny Vietnam is buying (with what currency) then how about other countries? This same individual wonders outside of the tiny retail market and the BOE sales if there is any gold to be had. Think. Black Blade (9/18/01; 05:52:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61834) European Markets Tumble! http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u European markets continue to tank hard. US futures are down sharply as well. Looks to be "interesting." Netking (9/18/01; 04:46:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61833) Silver - Dec '02 http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/SV/C2 Showing signs of breakout on the chart with last close at $4.54. site steward (9/18/01; 04:42:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61832) Gold in televised financial news on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. In "on-the-spot" reporting from New York on the financial trials of the day, a reporter was asked by the anchorman to elaborate on the situation regarding the gold below the World Trade Center.The reporter told him that the gold, amounting to about 12 tonnes, was deeply buried indeed, and it was not clear whether it would EVER [her emphasis] be recovered.(According to my calculations, the affected depository (operated by ScotiaMocatta at Four World Trade Center) holds, now buried, 9.35 tonnes of trader's gold against which warehouse receipts (warrants) have been issued, and 2.5 tonnes of other people's "unregistered" gold which otherwise meets the COMEX contract specifications for delivery.)The reporter said that the loss of this gold shouldn't have much impact on the gold market because, and I quote, "this is not gold that anyone sees. It is used for trading purposes only."That's really funny, because it points out the price-discovery flaw of the futures trading markets. What we see happening these days is the contract trade continues without missing a beat because it is primarily a cash arena for betting on the prevailing sentiment of other traders. And if these contract traders/gamblers decide not to settle in cash when they exit their positions, we could see ownership of the warehouse depository warrants change hands to represent effective delivery -- even though the gold cannot physically be obtained against the Scotia warrants.Clearly in this example, the market price is meaningless/bogus if the gold can not truly be physically delivered at the contract price -- the buyer getting just a paper representation of ownership instead of metal.Taken to the proper conclusion regarding normal COMEX trade (even when gold is not undeliverably buried), the common trading practice to forego physical settlement for 99% of trading volume results in the same bogus pricing effect. That is, during the span of the trade, the futures traders generally have only a paper contract that represents a theoretical quantity of gold, 99 percent of which will never be delivered (albeit by choice rather than by blockade from rubble.) None the less, it is this disconnect from actually delivery (by choice or chance) during the full course of the exchange that renders such a market's ability to provide price discovery as suspect at best.Hence the abnormal prices for gold in light of the underlying physical fundamentals -- "artificially" augmented on the supply side by the bullion banking system's gold leasing programs.These are the unsustainable things that systemic risk are made of. Use these pendulous market developments to your advantage before they naturally swing the other way to physical emphasis and higher prices.R. Spartacus (9/18/01; 03:20:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61831) @Randy PURE SPECULATION, but what if some large mutual funds went to the Securities and Exchange Commission saying that they were experiencing redemption rates that could threaten their firms. "We need an injection of cash to meet the payments without having to dump our portfolio on the market at fire-sale rates".What if the SEC approached some bank and discussed the issue. The bank would take excess collateral, but it wouldn't be taking the credit risk of the mutual fund companies themselves. That would be borne by the Fed. What if the Fed secretly is guaranteeing a huge line of credit to the these funds.In that case all the public will see is that the Fed's volume of loans to banks has gone up.Randy? The CoinGuy (9/18/01; 03:08:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61830) Site Steward; Gold buying Site Steward,Haven't posted since the 11th. I'm home now finally, and still somewhat in a state of shock, but recovering. I hope everyone is doing fine.I've been in contact with a few friends who are dealers. I've been collecting since I was kid so I know a few around the midwest. From my conversations, one dealer I talked to is completely out of inventory, but taking orders, 2 sounded as though inventory was languishing, and the last one said he got caught in the crisis, his inventory is already sold, but is still sitting in a hangar somewhere. They all noted problems getting new coins, but are still taking orders. I had to point a friend of mine to a larger dealer out of Santa Monica today. He told me they were out of the old Sovereigns, which is what he likes to purchase, went ahead and jumped on a waitlist. Hmmm...The CoinGuy site steward (9/18/01; 02:47:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61829) Gold on the move http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20010917/wl/imdf17092001070039a.html Reuters photo and quote:"...gold merchants say customers have rushed to buy gold bars in wake of U.S. attacks since last Tuesday, with some saying business have doubled in recent days. Gold bullion has shot up in value since the attack..."R. goldquest (9/18/01; 02:23:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61828) uponroof Unfortunately the PM mining in Idaho is all but dead. The potato crop would probably be a better bet at this time! CDE and HL, about the only two PM companies still functioning, are still having problems due to the low PM prices and the cleanup problems that in some cases, have existed for over 100 years. A lot of these problems were U S Government induced because of the demand for metals to support war efforts. Patriot-"One who loves and defends his country." Yes I still feel that way. I fought in an unpopular war that will still be debated for decades! This latest "war," will be no different. There has never been a war, to my knowledge, where innocents have not suffered. I have a strong dislike for politicians. With very few exceptions, most will never know the real horror of war. However, this type of war was declared on the U S several years ago. It can be debated whether "we" brought it upon ourselves or not. I personally, and most likely millions of other Americans, have never done anything to any of these people, to bring this type of hate, pain and violence to us. Because of these cowardly acts, they will come to understand that in the days, months and years to come, what real terror and pain, they have unleashed upon themselves. site steward (9/18/01; 02:20:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61827) Are you contributing to a well-poised generation? Whether yours or the one that follows? http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/17/wlion17.xml Of the funeral for assassinated General (anti-Taliban United Front) Ahmad Shah Massoud:-----"One of my father's wishes was to be a martyr," his 13-year-old son, Ahmad, said before the body arrived for the funeral. "But this was not the right time for that to happen. He died too early."The poise and dignity of the boy was only one of the striking aspects of yesterday's ceremony. His calm contrasted to the hysteria of the grown-ups around him. After each of his carefully chosen phrases, the men surrounding him erupted into fits of sobbing, tears pouring down their cheeks."I want to follow in my father's footsteps," he said, provoking another outburst of grieving. "I want to secure our country's independence. I want to be my father's successor."-------As the civilized world now seems prepared to square off against the Taliban, from the now departed General who struggled against the Taliban for several years, we have the echos of this encouraging opinion delivered on his visit to European allies earlier this year:"without Pakistan's support, the Taliban's military campaign would not even last a year."R. Netking (9/18/01; 02:17:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61826) Latest headlines from Debka Intelligence Sources http://debka.com/ As World Tenses Monday for US Anti-Terror Offensive:- Israel Deploys "Arrow" Anti-Missile Missiles in Operational Array- Afghanistan Aligns Army Along Pakistan Frontier and Points Scud Missiles at Pakistani Cities- Special American CIA and FBI Units Are Positioned Along Pakistani-Afghan Border- Iranian Units Deploy on its Border with Afghanistan- Russia Bolsters Forces on Tadjik-Afghan Frontier - Putin Allows US Use of Bases in Central Asia- Inside Russia, Bin Laden-Backed Moslem Rebels Capture Chechnya's Second City Gudermes, Shoot Down Russian Gunship with Two Generals and 11 Troops- Saddam Regime Daily "Babel" Warns Iraqi People to Prepare for Total US Offensive Mr Gresham (9/18/01; 01:51:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61825) Massoud http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=006055844939697&rtmo=wKeMsK5b&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/01/9/17/db01.html Lion of Panjshir, now deceased. Only the good... Belgian (9/18/01; 01:31:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61824) @ KarenSue Lady KarenSue,Give me some time to digest your bright input. You went to the bottom of it and knocked me out ! Good, very good.I'll be back. Thanks !Respectfull, from Belgian student. Netking (9/18/01; 00:47:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61823) Taliban Decalres Holy War Against U.S. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010918/ts/attack_afghan_holywar_dc_1.html Reuters Afghanistan's ruling purist Taliban movement has announced a jihad, or holy war, against the United States, according to a broadcast on the Taliban's Voice of Shariat radio monitored by the BBC. . ." MarkeTalk (9/18/01; 00:10:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61822) Russian Connection to World Trade Center Disaster? http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/16/103951.shtml This article from newsmax.com, if true, is really disturbing. Perhaps our old nemesis, Russia, is in bed with the terrorists (and the ilk of Ossama bin Ladin) after all. Or perhaps Russia's intelligence agency knew in advance of the plot but did nothing to stop it because the intended targets were the White House and Congress. Had the original plan been successful, how convenient for our previous adversary to take advantage of the sudden power vacuum. And what a nice way to have the U.S. Dollar crash so that the Euro can take center stage, opening the door to further cooperation between Russia and the European Union (and acceptance or convertibility of the Rouble). I find it hard to believe all of this but I can't dismiss this possibility, if this article is correct. Netking (9/18/01; 00:02:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61821) Were Terrorists Short-Selling? Regulators Look at Pre-Attack Stock Trades http://www.iht.com/articles/32876.html Don't whether this has been posted, but adds a new dimension to the story (with an audit trail!) - Netking-------------------------------------------------------Back to Start of Article BRUSSELS Stock market regulators in Europe and Japan said Monday they were investigating whether groups connected with the U.S. terror bombings sought to reap windfall profits from the tragedy by dumping shares of airlines and insurance companies in advance of the attacks.Financial authorities in Europe said their scrutiny of suspicious stock sales before the attacks last Tuesday were part of a broader inquiry into the global financial dealings of Osama bin Laden, the Islamic radical regarded as the likely mastermind of the assaults.Mr bin Laden, the scion of a Saudi construction magnate, is estimated to be worth more than $300 million. He is known to have developed an elaborate financial network, including companies in Cyprus, Tunisia and Switzerland, that help launder earnings and donations from supporters scattered throughout the Gulf, North Africa and Muslim communities in Europe. Swiss prosecutors are focusing their attention on an investment bank in Lugano called Al Taqwa, which means "fear of God" in Arabic. The police suspect the bank may have handled important transactions for Mr. bin Laden in the past, but they have not been able to find conclusive proof of links to terrorist plots. . . "------------------------------------------------------------Megatron, all the best to you Sir, stay around things WILL get interesting - regards Murray. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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