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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 7/18/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Black Blade (07/18/01; 23:27:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 58304)
Crisis Not Over, Says Nation's Top Energy Official
http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=displaynews&doc_id=NR200107181180.3_a1b1000ba13b3261

Snippit:

Jul. 18--The recent drop in gas prices should not fool anyone into thinking America doesn't really face an energy supply crisis over the next 20 years, the nation's top energy official said Tuesday. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, repeating earlier Bush administration themes, said that the country needs 1,300 new power plants to meet a 45 percent increase in the demand for electricity in the next two decades, and that oil and natural gas consumption are expected to soar in the Western Hemisphere during the same period. Abraham said the nation is facing rising demand, stagnant supply and an energy delivery system that is out of date and in need of repair. But there is a pervasive and paralyzing myth that stands in the way of action. It is the idea that we have no energy crisis, or that if we do face a few energy problems, they can be disposed of with a little conservation or a little more efficiency, Abraham said in a speech prepared for delivery at the annual convention of the National Council of La Raza at Milwaukee's Midwest Express Center.

Black Blade: True, but in a world of Grasshoppers, the Ants can only resort to look out for number one. The previous post on polls and where many Grasshoppers bury their heads in the sand crying and wailing that "there is no energy crisis" even as the lights and air conditioners turn off. This is the same attitude one can expect while the economy craters. The best the Ants can do is to prepare and seek protection for themselves and their families. The insurance of gold and silver is just a prudent step as the economy slips deeper into recession. The attitude of the Grasshopper? Unfortunately that's the nature of man and sometimes it is just denial based on fear and the sheer hope that all will turn out all right. "…and they sang, danced, and played all summer…"


Turnaround (07/18/01; 23:06:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 58303)
Let Them Eat Bilderburgers
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,168107,00.html

Hear Ye, Hear Ye!

Our Wise and Benevolent Maximum Monetary Magus, El Supremo Chairmano Ultimato, His Most Magnificent Wizard of the Troy Oz., The Divine Sorcerer of Interest Rates Who Outshines the Sun, Eater of the Lotus Peanuts Who Passeth All Understanding, The Fiduciary Pharoah Who Hath Risen Past Goldbrat's Ken, The Seer of All Transactions and Gnosis of All Values, His Excellency, the Commander-in-Chief of the Peasant's Economy and Keeper of the Keys to the Ark of Deep Storage, Hath, out of His tremendous generosity and Feeling for the groveling, unworthy Pain of the lowly, unwashed rabble, come down from the lofty heights to Issue the Invocation of Fiat.
We Hear and Must Obey.

============

From the link-
"But sometimes you get the feeling he just wants to talk. The king of Fed-speak is speaking plainer and plainer these days — rarely has Greenspan's congressional testimony been so transparent as it was Wednesday. Certainly his customary subtlety must seem a less necessary precaution when the markets are immersed in their own problems — particularly this week, as some 1,500 earnings reports compete with Greenspan for prominence on Wall Street's list of designated tea leaves. But there's something almost plaintive in the way the Most Famous Fed Chairman in History keeps recounting his latest bout with U.S. economic meltdown.

The last few years have been "a particular challenge for monetary policy," which is "a difficult activity." The capital-investment bubble of the late 90s was "utterly unsustainable."

[Yeah, now you tell us.]

"Rebound predictions, "like all economic forecasts, do not have an enviable record." And yet Greenspan's big picture is still rosy — the recent dropoff in productivity gains and the technological investments that fuel them are "only a pause… At some point, inventory liquidation will come to an end, and its termination will spur production and incomes." And finally, "It is notable how well the U.S. economy has withstood the many negative forces weighing on it…The economy is still standing." ..

"Maybe there's a deeper monetary strategy to this newfound penchant for clarity and explanation. But maybe Alan Greenspan, in the middle of a lonely battle with a vengeful business cycle while Wall Street clamors for miracles, just wants a little sympathy. "

==========

Tree in the Forest, Slingshot- auspec is obviously Benny in the London basement. You have a lot of chuzpah messin wid him.
Sir Canuck- Did you know the word "gullible" is actually not in the dictionary?




Black Blade (07/18/01; 23:00:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 58302)
API says slowing US economy trimmed products demand in first half
http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/web_article_display.cfm?ARTICLE_CATEGORY=TOPST&ARTICLE_ID=107596

Snippit:

WASHINGTON, DC, July 18 -- Growth in petroleum products deliveries increased only 1.3% in the first half, reflecting the weakness of the US economy, the American Petroleum Institute said Wednesday. It said indicators of demand worsened in the second quarter, with deliveries barely able to match year-ago levels.

Black Blade: The energy crisis as all postwar energy crises preceded each US postwar recession. This recession is no different. The current energy crisis appears to be temporarily moderated due to moderate summer temperatures (so much for global warming). Oil inventories remain high as it is quite possible that Iraq has signaled no output, only to get their enemies in OPEC to commit to higher production and then produce oil as best they can to hurt the Arab members of OPEC (for their support of the allies during operation "Desert Storm?"). Interesting thought anyway.

Natural gas production is stretched as there are no more drill rigs coming online anytime soon and NG production is still flat. A hot summer and a severe winter could create serious problems. It is possible that the US recession will reduce demand enough to leave ample supply for this coming winter. We shall see.

Israeli troops mass around Palestinian territories and the governments of Arab nations around the Middle-East are not amused. Mubarak of Egypt has stated that there will be no peace as long as Sharon is in power. There could be a response similar to the 1973 oil embargo if US support for Israel is seen by the Arab OPEC members as an obstacle should these Israeli troops move into the "Territories." Just about anything can happen in an instant in this part of the world.

GOLD - Cheap Insurance (for now) - Proven Protection.


Rockgrabber (07/18/01; 22:47:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 58301)
Mid-East War and the "True Power Players"
Please allow me to ask any willing to share their thoughts on this subject. Do the true power players see this war as an ally? Will they use this to their advatage? I just read the news comeing out of the G-8 meeting and see they all "claim to say" that they are going to take a hard stand on the Mid-East (only thing they could agree on). Is this true, do you see this as being true? Or do they see this sittuation differently then they are claiming, as they so often do?

Hill Billy Mitchell (07/18/01; 22:36:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 58300)
Palantir @ # 58289 - Time of PM Fix - 10:00 AM Eastern
Sir, much thanks for the information on the fix.

London PM fix 10:00 AM Eastern, July 18, 2001 = $268.65

New York spot @ approximately 10:30 AM = $270.20.

$270 barrier was broken and held and closed in NY @ $270.30 and is presently (00:25 AM Eastern July 19, 2001) @ $270.95 in Hong Kong and Sidney. Why after the London PM fix and near the London spot close?

Still consistently the NY market is making all of the moves in the gold spot market. All other markets are now following the New York lead. This is not the same market that we have seen in the past. Most moves have been after the New York close or before the New York open or both.

Why? What is the significance? Does it have anything to do with Christian's postulations?

Respectfully,

HBM



Black Blade (07/18/01; 22:33:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 58299)
Saudi sees possible OPEC cut before September meet
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010718/l18320496_4.html

Snippit:

LONDON, July 18 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, believes OPEC could cut production before its September meeting to adjust to expected weaker global demand for crude, a Saudi source said on Wednesday. "The numbers being published lately by different international sources indicate weaker demand and excessive supply. In this case, OPEC and other producers are likely to reduce supply,'' the Saudi source told Reuters.

Black Blade: It is quite possible that OPEC will cut production as prices fall. This is a new OPEC that found it could make a profit on their finite resources by exercising some discipline, so cheating on quotas are less likely. The era of "Cheap Oil" is over and these higher costs will continue, and will probably rise sharply if the US economy comes out of recession.


Rockgrabber (07/18/01; 22:14:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 58298)
Christian
"They are selling down commodities to support their paper currency". Yes Sir!! That they are. Nothing more visable to me then gold, perhaps silver. But I am not sure as to why they would not with everything paper. If I had the world hooked on my dollar, I would not want them to find an alternitive "drug". If I had to hide inflation by selling paper, no problem, but I could not do it forever I would know. So as I sold those into the dirt, I would probably purchase those physical goods at my artificially created low price. As that is the perfect bargain profit hedge. Now sir, how long just for fun would you say they could do this for? How much longer? Is it about to coincide with the Euro delivery?

Black Blade (07/18/01; 22:11:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 58297)
Energy crisis increases distrust of government, pair of polls show
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2001/07/18/state2157EDT0297.DTL&type=news

Snippit:

California's energy crisis is boosting residents' mistrust of government, a pair of polls shows. A CBS News poll released Wednesday found 40 percent of residents blame government for the energy woes, more than the 33 percent who blame energy companies. A Public Policy Institute of California poll Thursday found similar results. Despite six days of rolling blackouts and skyrocketing energy prices this year, 44 percent of the 443 residents polled by CBS believe the energy crisis isn't real.

Black Blade: People distrust government? Go figure. Hmmm...


Black Blade (07/18/01; 22:01:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 58296)
Testimony of Chairman Alan Greenspan
http://www.federalreserve.gov/BoardDocs/HH/2001/July/Testimony.htm


If one really wants to wade through this drivel here it is. I think they take this "corpse-sicle" out of cold storage twice a year, prop him up in a seat and play a tape recording of incoherent speech for a couple of hours.

- Black Blade


Canuck (07/18/01; 20:32:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 58295)
Wierd
I don't know if anyone else saw this today but did I see unhedged miners do well versus hedged. Bodes well for the physical, yes?

For example, K.TO took it hard (-7%) while FN.TO (+3) and MNG.TO (+10) had a good day.

Not promoting stock, maybe seeing a growing divergence between the 2 groups.

I am concerned about the discussion of late about the hedged miners forwarding to government thus laying the groundwork for takeover ie: convoluted 'nationalization'.

Thoughts?

Canuck.

auspec (07/18/01; 20:31:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 58294)
sling and Tree
I hope 'you all' are not detectives by profession! You're batting about as high as Ted William's best year, great for baseball, bad for brain surgery. Take away the 'American' astute wild guess and you're much closer to the Mendoza line. Did any of us spell 'hudspeh' correctly? Now what did I do to deserve this 'Kitco' insult? Final analysis...........better seek some {snort, snort}!
Just a USAGOLD Wiseguy.
Best to 'you guys'!
auspectator

Canuck (07/18/01; 20:24:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 58293)
Observations
From another site:

".....Mixed results.......while food and beverage companies Coca-Cola and Kraft saw double-digit earnings growth."

How do these companies report 'double-digit earnings growth'?

Next we'll see McRonalds with 'double-digit growth'. I didn't consume more pop, hamburgers and cheese this quarter? Who can account for this, FudgeYourNumbers.com?

Tired of lying analysts.



Christian (7/18/01; 18:15:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 58292)
monitization
Monitize = To control- a doctrine that there is only one money (paper money). Monitization is to take control of all values in paper money form. Physical gold or other commodities are monetized and are valued in paper money form. Gold is not legal tender to buy groceries with at Shaws, Supervalue, etc..

Christian (7/18/01; 18:01:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 58291)
The road to ruin
Today our society circulates wealth by consumption instead of creation, with prices kept artificially low by global supply dependence. If this is to become the future of the United States, this country will be following blindly upon the trail blazed more then 2000 years ago by the Roman Empire. Like us, Rome was robust, imaginative and created limitless new wealth. Like us it dominated the world of its time and created a new standard of living never befor known. They like us had found the secret of national success. They like us discovered that it could maintain its life of luxury by manipulating wealth, rather than creating it, and depended upon lesser lands as a source of supply. Eventually Rome like us today became an economic captive of the lands it had control over. In time their artificial wealth became a charade just like ours is today. This was followed by a period of rapid decline just like we are today. We have not discovered a new formula that permits us to maintain endless wealth as a service society where we consume but do not create. The trade deficit consumes our gold and the gold from other countries. The FED in its doctrine that there is only one money (paper money) monitizes the gold and other commodities by simply printing new paper which cost them nothing and sells it. The sale price is the profit. This profit is used to cover the trade deficit. There is a cost to our control. The FED prints $330 at a cost of 10 cents to get an ounce of gold that is sold for $270. The real cost is 10 cent, = $269.90 profit. This finances our consumption and keeps prices aetificially low. This stops real creation of actual production. We maintain our lifestyle by manipulating wealth, rather then creating it. How long can a society continue when it has abandoned factory smakestacks in favor of fast foods, and farm crops in favor of purchase orders? Is true wealth found in the riches of the land, or in an exchange of paper for services rendered? Do we, as a mature nation, really want these trends? Can we maintain our luxuries based on services without production. There is three ways a nation can become wealthy. It can make war and take the wealth of another by force. It could trade freely and make a profit by cheating, because the exchange of goods was beneficial only in increasing the variety of stuff a consumer could use, but to make a monetary profit requires a policy of overpricing one product as compared to another. Russia's platinum is a good example of this. We could profit through agriculture and mining, where by planting the seed or operating the mines could creat new wealth as if by a miracle. However the owners of the FED want the miracle all to themselves by selling down commodities to support their paper currency.

Tree in the Forest (7/18/01; 17:43:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 58290)
HBM, slingshot
HBM: In the phrase "monetizing debt" I had assumed this meant to pay down debt by printing up FRNs. Is this incorrect? We better get our definitions straight!

slingshot: I think you have auspec nailed. Definitely a Kitco wiseguy! I just didn't realize he was so young! ;-)

Palant'r (7/18/01; 17:17:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 58289)
I see a London gold fixing at 10:30am and 3:00pm local time
Eastern Time equivalents are 5:30am and 10:00am

slingshot (7/18/01; 17:14:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 58288)
Auspec Letter Msg.#58234
I have compiled the following detailed information after reading your "LETTER OF WARNING" two times.
Likes going to the movies
Twenty- five to thirty years old
He is American, not British.
He is from New Jersey,New York or Massachusetts due to the usage of "Wanna, Boyz Youse Guys and Hudseph".
Collects information on Goverment.
Anti New World order
Invests in the stock market
Avid reader of USAGOLD
All information contained in letter has been discussed on this forum.
Final Analysis.
HE'S FROM KITCO!"
Slingshot


Palant'r (7/18/01; 17:03:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 58287)
Falling
glancing
rolling . . . glowing.

We shall see what we shall see.

Netking (7/18/01; 16:42:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 58286)
Money . . .
Money, a further refined Netking definition

"Money is ANYTHING that people are CONFIDENT enough to use as a medium of exchange of value between each other"

As peoples confidence changes. . . thus the mode & medium of exchange of value will change herewith Ergo.

Old Yeller (7/18/01; 16:29:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 58285)
Oops,that's not what I meant

Last post;protestations should read affirmations.

Hill Billy Mitchell (07/18/01; 14:35:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 58284)
Monetization? Does anyone have a problem with this definition
Webster's 7th Collegiate Dictionary – MONETIZE - To coin into money: to establish as legal tender

Respectfully,

HBM

Old Yeller (07/18/01; 13:50:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 58283)
The dirty war on gold

As Buena Fe so aptly puts it;

"Notice how AG mentions long term inflation expectations,not the actual inflation itself.The whole game is about perception."

Indeed,the big float is out there,Cap'n,and she's getting bigger and uglier as we speak.

First off,let's put aside all those letters and protestations of saintly behavior on the part of the Fed/ESF/Treasury,vis-a-vis;US gold reserves.The fact of the matter is we don't know and they show absolutely no inclination of ever proving to their people and the world at large that said reserves exist in the quantities and in the physical state that they assert.

The Fed /Treasury have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the lengths they will go to to preserve the hegemony.This is war,there are no rules anymore.Anything goes and it will.

Buena Fe (07/18/01; 13:24:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 58282)
gorilla's
http://www.crbindex.com/
Bush rules out US intervention in foreign-exchange markets
Washington, July 18 (BridgeNews) - President Bush said the U.S. would not
intervene in foreign exchange markets and the market alone would decide the
strength or weakness of the U.S. dollar. Bush's was interviewed Tuesday by
foreign journalists and a transcript was released Wednesday.
( Story .17987 )

Treasury aide says strong US dollar policy unchanged
Washington, July 18 (BridgeNews) - The Bush administration continues to
support a strong dollar, a U.S. Treasury official told BridgeNews Wednesday as
talk swirled in financial markets that President Bush had signaled a softer
dollar policy.
( Story .17815 )

_______________________________________________________
Notice how Bush says one thing ........but the "aide" says another! Is this aide a Clinton leftover? Is there an internal game of chicken going on with the US Gov? Maybe the previous Admins toolies can't/won't admit to the extent of their Tomfoolery within the monetary system and Bush hasn't quite figured out the size/significance of the problem of the systemic "to big to fail" gorilla caged up beside him.


Horatio (07/18/01; 13:06:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 58281)
Sterilized economy
I fear that after the Fed monetizes everything with the accompaning STERILIZATION of each and every monetized item,the public will lose faith in the "free markets"and be left with the impression that they don't work anymore and "require"government interference to make things work.
The demand for "social engeneering" will come from everywhere to equalize incomes.IMHO all this monetizing and sterilization will result in the trashing of the dollar at some point.The price will be paid in one way or another.
I would like to ask Greenspan "If you believe in free market forces,why do you tinker with interest rates?
Why not let natural forces work thier way through the economy?Is it because we might realize we don't need you and a computer could do a better job?Is it because politicians are under pressure to "do something"even when the best thing to do is nothing?

Horatio (07/18/01; 12:37:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 58280)
Gold and Mortgage markets
The same method of monitizing is being carried out in the mortgage markets.The biggest cause of bank failure in the 30's was mortgage defaults,not stock crash.This time the Government created Fannie Mae and also Freddie Mac to provide LIQUIDITY
.The Gumment will (monitize)all the mortgages it holds in order to maintain liquidity in the mortgage markets.
All this is fine in order to prevent recession,but the Devil is in the details when all this "liquidity"comes back
with its purchasing power .As soon as merchants 'stockbrokers ,and housing markets see the demand pick up .
The Fed will be forced to SLAM on the brakes or face "hyper inflation" in prices and wages.You can tinker with the economy to delay the enivetable,but the outcome will be the same.The only gain will be for one politician at the expense of another.

Hill Billy Mitchell (07/18/01; 12:35:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 58279)
Horatio @ # 58275 and # 58274
Good sir,

That correction in # 58275 was a very important correction. I was about ask for a clarification.

Very respectfully,

HBM

goldfan (07/18/01; 12:30:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 58278)
HBM more on monetisation of mortgages, real estate
Further to HBM and others..

Some here, Poor Old Solomon et al, have been posting about the real estate bubble. And this it seems is an example of monetization in action.

It occurs to me to elaborate on the monetization process by looking at the activities of the GSE's. These Fannie Maes etc, buy packages of poor quality credit mortgages etc, from the banks and put them on their books as high quality, just because they own them and there is some feeling that the FED might stand behind the GSE's in a way they do not necessarily stand behind every commercial bank. And of course, the GSE's are not scrutinized by federal regulators the way banks are. ( This in my mothers daily wash would have been the same as using bleach instead of soap, the bleach just makes the dirt less visible, only the soap would get it out).

So the banks are able to support bubble-size real estate evaluations, by issuing higher mortgages, to dot com geniuses whose only merit is to have been born in a period when dicing up tulip bulbs for multiple sales was a phenomenal opportunity for financial gain with no effort. The banks profit because of course more loans, bigger loans, means more profit from interest. And the borrowers are not subject to any real scrutiny of their ability to repay, their creditworthiness, because the loans have been sanitized (monetized) onto the books of the GSE. When they fail, as they will, it will be our times equivalent to the overthrow of Ozymandias... IMHO.

FWIW
Goldfan

Hill Billy Mitchell (07/18/01; 12:29:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 58277)
Question???
What time (Eastern time zone) does the London PM fix occur? Looks like the gold move happened about then but I am not sure.

TIA

HBM

Netking (07/18/01; 12:24:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 58276)
Silver Bugs - "Silver Steal" Ted Butler
http://www.gloomdoom.com/07-17-01.html
Snippits from Ted's latest, enjoy;
----------------------------------------------------------
"The price of silver has recently hit multi-year lows. Whenever the price of an asset hits historical highs or lows, it's natural to reflect on the significance of such an event. Those who have an interest in a particular asset find their analytical curiosity at a peak during such times. At times of historical highs or lows in price, people's opinions of what the future price will be generally run to extremes. Historical high and low price points tend to bring out emotion and incorrect analyses.

The price of silver is well known. Because of that, it's natural for analysts to speak in terms of price when explaining why the price is where it is. Invariably, they will say, "Look at the price, it tells you all you need to know about the true state of the silver market". This tends to be true in every investment asset. One thing I've witnessed over the years is that the analysis generally follows the price action, not vice-versa. When a market goes down, all the public commentary seems to be negative. A rising market usually generates only upbeat talk. I contend that this is absurd. I contend that bearish commentary at bottoms . . . .

. . . . Time will tell whether the government restocks silver, just as time will tell if silver performs as it has in past recessions. Time is definitely on silver's side, no matter what occurs in the economy. This is the beautiful and incredible thing about silver, its current production is likely to fall off more than its current consumption. Its long term production and consumption look mismatched as far as the eye can see. The deficit looks ready to expand in spite of slightly falling total demand near term. The existing inventory is melting like ice in the summer sun. The biggest boy on the block, the U.S. Government, could be a big buyer through the Mint and Defense Department, with the Department of Energy and the U.S. Navy funding important superconducting projects involving potentially massive amounts of silver. A paper short position exists that dwarfs anything ever seen in any commodity. A separate short lease position exists and sits on top of the paper short position, like a hydrogen bomb on top of an atomic bomb. Time will beget more people in the world, creating more silver consumers daily. No amount of time will replace the 5000 years of accumulated world production already consumed.

Here we have an asset that is historically recession-resistant, if not recession-proof. Its price-to-value ratio is off the charts. It is so cheap, you don't even need to leverage it, in order to score big. It is so cheap, the risk has been wrung out. Forget my bullish prognostications for a moment and look at the price range for the past 25 years. Silver is less than a dollar off the low, and $45 below the high, not even bothering to adjust for inflation. How many assets, that can't possibly default or go bankrupt, can you make that statement about? Silver is a great, great buy on its past performance alone. But its inherent value going forward, at this point in history, will offer rewards talked about for decades. Please make sure you are among those in the future, who will celebrate those rewards, because you held real silver . . ."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sir Auspec, what's new?

Horatio (07/18/01; 12:21:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 58275)
Gold
sorry for the slip of the finger.They are sterilizeing the effects of thier monitizing by selling down gold and commodities.Keeping the PRICES low while inflating the currency .This is typical FED .They will do this until the Kondritieff cycle turns up.

Horatio (07/18/01; 12:16:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 58274)
Sterilized Gold
The u.s. is monitizing everything like crazy,gold,commodities every tangable item it can get its hands on.We are in a depression cycle called the Kondrietieff cycle which has a few more years to run before it turns up.Its a 54 year cycle.After they monitize all they can,they then try to STERILIZE the effects of thier actions,which are VERY

goldfan (07/18/01; 12:00:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 58273)
Hill Billy Mitchell (msg#: 58270)

Sir HBM, greetings!
I saw your question below and thought to try my hand at it..
Yours to:
>>>>>>Christian @ # 58265
Sir, (second request)

Could you please answer my questions per my post # 58262:

"...monitization of debt...is to say that Public Debt is liquidated (internally) by printing fiat. Would this be an incorrect statement? If my simple view is correct, then would it not follow that monitization of our constitutional money is liquidation of gold and silver by printing fiat. I suspect that this is fairly technical and needs a further explanation. Could you help the simpler minds with more depth of explanation of what you mean by "monitization of our constitutional money"?<<<<


This would not be the first time I have provided an answer where I'm not perfectly certain I know what I'm talking about, but sometimes even off base answers serve to draw the correct ones out from others more knowledgeable. As I understand it, The Federal Reserve, as the bank of last resort, would buy up the failing assets of commercial banks, treasury bonds, commercial bonds, and pay cash in return. These assets would now be on the books of the Fed instead of the banks. The banks have cash, to restore their asset to cash ratios, which were in trouble because of the falling prices of their assets. They now are able to lend this cash to a further series of poor credit risks and keep the game going a while longer. As this cash hits the consumers bank accounts, they withdraw it as fast as possible and spend it on hard goods. This rapidly increasing expenditure of cash, creates further pressure on banks, who have then to go back to the FED for more bailout money. The traditional hyperinflation begins....

And so monetizing gold would mean the FED has new gold on its books as an asset, meaning that it is in violation of what it is allowed to do, and is doing what Greenspan emphatically said it is not doing...

FWIW

Goldfan

Buena Fe (07/18/01; 11:53:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 58272)
frogs and water
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topsum&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AO1XBHRUtR3JlZW5z
07/18 13:02
Greenspan Says Weakness May Require More Rate Cuts

........Although the CPI has ``picked up this year,'' Greenspan said, that hasn't been matched by a rise in the core personal consumption expenditure index, a measure of inflation preferred by Fed officials. ``Moreover, survey readings on long term inflation expectations have remained quite stable,'' Greenspan said...........

____________________________________________________
Notice how AG mentions "long term inflation EXPECTATIONS", not the actual inflation itself. The whole game is about PERCEPTIONS. Keep the frogs in the slowly boing pot and they'll boil. Those here are already outside the pot......but many of us have F&F's who can't seem to grasp the importance of the "Times"





Gandalf the White (07/18/01; 11:28:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 58271)
More Questions for Christian !
Please do not feel that anyone is "ganginguponyou", BUT I have more questions on the US Gov'n printing new FRN's and buying physical gold at a $60 premium and then selling it at SPOT market for less of the same FRN's. That seems to be a lot of work for a loss of FRN's.
Questions -- This is to be able to control the markets, yes?
Ok, what segment of the US Gov'n is it that does this buying and selling ? Is this an "undercover" agency? Who is selling the physical at the $60 premium ? A mining company ? IF SO, which one or ones ? Where are these US Gov'n sales performed ? The COMEX ? IF SO, which floor trader is used for the sale? Does the Gov'n have its own "undercover" trader?
Thanks
<;-)


Hill Billy Mitchell (07/18/01; 10:43:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 58270)
Christian @ # 58265
Sir, (second request)

Could you please answer my questions per my post # 58262:

"...monitization of debt...is to say that Public Debt is liquidated (internally) by printing fiat. Would this be an incorrect statement? If my simple view is correct, then would it not follow that monitization of our constitutional money is liquidation of gold and silver by printing fiat. I suspect that this is fairly technical and needs a further explanation. Could you help the simpler minds with more depth of explanation of what you mean by "monitization of our constitutional money"?

It is clear that what you posted in # 58265 was partly prompted by my post # 58262. I do appreciate your response but it is important to answer my question. That question is obviously not a difficult question for you. Yes and no would be appropriate if you do not care to expound. My purpose is not to trap you but to get to dig deep and to understand more. I can't imagine why you would avoid my very specific question but if you prefer not to respond I am sure that you have your reasons. Perhaps others will respond with try to help with suggested answers.

Very respectfully,

HBM



Gandalf the White (07/18/01; 10:37:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 58269)
OK, SPOT ---- JUMP, SPOT, Jump !!
What happened to the BARRIER at $270 ?
<;-)

Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD (7/18/01; 10:27:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 58268)
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