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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 7/17/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Netking (07/17/01; 23:46:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 58254) Auspec We've got 'The Name' above every name to battle these amateurs. They weren't too knowledgeable about Silver huh, looking forward for mine too Sir for a laugh! regards Murray Black Blade (07/17/01; 23:02:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 58253) Matt Simmons dire speech to oil geologists http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/web/index.asp "There are some grim facts that suggest many of the world's existing gas and oil basins are getting quite long in the tooth. Many areas are now experiencing production declines too rapid to ever make up by an exponential expansion of ever-smaller fields. We simply lack the rigs and people to fight this treadmill. Take the UKCS for instance. As recently as 1995, 89 fields produced 2.5 million barrels a day. Five years later, those same fields produced only 1,445,000 barrels day. The top 11 fields in the UK sector of the North Sea produced 1,250 million barrels per day in 1995. Five years later, the production in the same 11 fields had fallen to only 555,000 barrels per day. This steep decline raises some genuine questions on the long-term sustainability of the UK's North Sea, or implies an explosion of small fields growing almost exponentially. In the Gulf of Mexico, drilling in 2000 was far higher than 1999, yet oil production on the shelf was down 6%, year over year. Natural gas production fell by almost 8%, though most of the rapid drilling increases were gas efforts. In Canada, gas well completions were up 41% in 2000 over the prior year, while gas supply grew by only 2% and all this increase came from Eastern Canada's Sable Island. What all these data points highlight is the mounting difficulty to add new wellhead capacity in many key regions of the world. In all too many regions, the prime culprit is a rapidly rising decline curve that makes it impossible to add enough new supply to overcome this capacity problem. Even the Middle East is now beginning to experience, for the first time ever, how hard it is to grow production once giant fields roll over and begin to decline. There is so little data on field-by-field production statistics in the Middle East that any guesses on average decline rates are simply speculation. But there is growing evidence that almost every giant field in the Middle East has already passed its peak production. A growing number of forecasters are beginning to suggest that most of the world's next generation of oil supplies will come from far heavier crude grades, including some, like Venzuela's Orinico Belt or Canada's Oil Sands. But these projects also consume massive amounts of energy merely to convert these heavy grades into usable energy supplies. In a world of cheap and abundant energy, this inefficient energy conversion hardly matters. But we might be headed for an era of suprising high energy prices when this unhealthy conversion factor becomes very important. The world needs to begin developing a better sense of total energy projects and capture the total energy spent to create useable energy so we avoid projects that consume as much (or more) energy as they produce. "Black Blade: This portion of Matt Simmons speech to a gathering of petroleum geologists (American Association of Petroleum Geologists) is a page (actually several pages) out of "The Rise and Fall of Hydrocarbon Man." I heard more drivel by the extremist left that there is no longer an energy crisis. If this is not nipped in the bud, it will certainly develop into a crisis of epic proportions and take the economy with it. Many more speeches, papers, and research by Matt Simmons and others at the link - requires registration but well worth reading. Thanks to DeRonin at: http://pub38.ezboard.com/fdownstreamventurespetroleummarkets.showMessage?topicID=3014.topic US_Army(RET) (07/17/01; 22:33:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 58252) Houses Down Solomon Weaver (07/17/01; 21:16:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 58246) Dear "Poor old Solomon" (old?…Maybe…Poor?…not a chance!)Thanks for last post. I always look forward to when your "moniker" shows up on the forum…the last, as usual strikes a strong chord of synchronistic thought here in Silverdale, WA.House prices starting to drop here also…some dramatically (we are in part a "bed-room" community to the big tech morass in Seattle)…many more homes for sale, and those that do sell are taking longer then in the recent past.But here is the confusing part.Despite the clear signs of trouble mentioned above, there seems to be an almost frenetic pace of new construction going on (?)…New subdivisions, condos and apartments in various stages of completion all over…and a significant number of new ones just getting started. Obviously there is financing coming from somewhere…and a great number of people are at work…but who is going to buy all this new stuff…let alone the homes for sale already on the market…???New retail business's (large ones) are going up also…frequently on the same lot where a previous one went belly up for lack of sales…often selling the same product (?)…The bigger waste is the tearing down of the previously perfectly good building and the putting up of another not too unlike the one taken down.Am at a loss of what to think…this may be happening all over the country. Something is incredibly "broke" here in "Far West America."My wife, also born out of the US (Arab)…is absolutely flabbergasted by all this visible "waste"….Her most often expressed concern, is what gives us (Americans) the right to live such resource wasteful lives (with "borrowed" money"), when others in the world have so little. I have to agree. The bill is going to come due probably sooner then we all can guess…and with it much pain.Living a "simple" life will not be an option for many. I like the idea of getting used to it now and feel quite lucky to be as debt free as I am…but intend to get "freer" while a "patiently" as the world provides (re. HBM) …growing the "pile" at bargain prices (and loving it!)…THX again,SLD Black Blade (07/17/01; 22:31:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 58251) Nikkei craters and Taiwan sinking fast! http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u The Nekkei falls below 12,000 and Taiwan markets looks gruesome tonight. The rest of Asia is treading water. Black Blade (07/17/01; 22:27:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 58250) Forbes Body Count http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/30/layoffs.html The body count continues to rise, while many others have given up looking for employment. This trend will continue as the US slips into the abyss. Not a sign of a healthy economy.- Black Blade Black Blade (07/17/01; 22:21:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 58249) INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION AND CAPACITY UTILIZATION http://www.federalreserve.gov/Releases/G17/Current/ Snippit:Industrial production fell 0.7 percent in June, to 142.5 percent of its 1992 average; second-quarter production was down 5.6 percent at an annual rate. After nine consecutive months of decline, industrial production in June was more than 3-1/2 percent below its level in June 2000. Manufacturing output, which also posted its ninth consecutive monthly decline, contracted 0.8 percent in June, to more than 4 percent below its year-earlier level. Mining output weakened 0.4 percent, and utilities production increased 0.9 percent. The rate of capacity utilization for total industry sank to 77 percent, more than 5 percentage points below its 1967-2000 average.Black Blade: Fallen 9th month in a row! No matter how they spin this it still spells "Recession." SHIFTY (07/17/01; 21:50:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 58248) Turnaround "Shifty vs. The Oppenheimers Oh Ye with little faith !$hifty Turnaround (07/17/01; 21:26:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 58247) auspec- bid order auspec (07/17/01; 18:28:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 58234)A Look From The Other Side"Shifty vs. The OppenheimersWIZ vs. The Rothchildscb2 vs. The Rockfeller FoundationCanuck vs. Teddy KennedyOK, OK, so maybe we'll make Canuck swim drunk and upstream against TK {just drunk}, but you get the idea, the odds are not with you." ENDComments: This letter is chilling and I can see its source as none other then 'The Anti-auspec'. Oh, that it were only a mere prank. These are clearly not the thoughts of a sane or rational individual. Could our gold enemies possibly be as juvenile as this letter??? LET'S HOPE SO! I'm gonna 'hit all the bids' tomorrow."Whew! You must of really jerked someone's chain down at the ol' ATF&G, Auspec.Put me down for 30-70 on Shifty vs. the Oppenheimers. Solomon Weaver (07/17/01; 21:16:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 58246) Houses Down....right in MKs back yard The region around Denver has experienced a massive upsurge in tech jobs and homes have been going up all over the place, with panoramic mountain views and large footprints and vaulted ceilings...with big Fanny Mae just sucking up the risk and layering in the liquidity.A friend of mine househunting several months now in Boulder has direct experience of about a 5-7% drop in prices in the last few months on a normal slightly upscale home in the 400K range. Maybe a desperate seller...buy where have all the buyers gone?The hard part for me....having a Russian wife...and being around all this "Neuveau Rich" mania is that I am trying to hold in the reigns and live simply and she sees all of these people living the "good times".She cannot seem to fathom the extent in which these people are leveraged without their even knowing it. Someday (God help us) we might reach a point where people really see the bitter medicine that we have to swallow.My uncle retired early in 1986 from Xerox with huge option payouts....in 1987 he saw half his net worth gone in the markets....in 1988 he studied for a realtors license....a trade he could do on his "own time" and still feel "semi-retired"....well of course the 90s were good to him.How many lifestyle changes lie just ahead?? I really wonder how well the "oughts" will treat us? in ought1 I oughtta have done....in ought2 we outta have done...in ought3 they oughtta have done....Poor old Solomon Chris Powell (07/17/01; 21:11:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 58245) Help us stop the manipulation: Send this letter to Congress http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/821 We've got the goods on the U.S. government'ssuppression of the gold price. Help us mobilizeCongress to expose it: Write this letter toyour congressmen, today.To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email and get them immediately so you don't have to go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Canuck (07/17/01; 20:44:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 58244) @ auspec Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Gold letterhead?Man, am I a gullible dolt or what? Good one auspec!I owe you one. Canuck (07/17/01; 20:25:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 58243) @ auspec Who is 'anti-auspec'?If not a name, a hint or connection. Canuck (07/17/01; 20:23:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 58242) @ auspec Ok, ok ,ok; the first time I read your 'letter' I chuckled.The second time I frowned, the third time, well, you're kidding right?Tell me you didn't receive such a letter, you're pulling our legs.ATF&G letterhead? What the hell?Canuck Christian (07/17/01; 20:12:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 58241) (No Subject) US Government is buying physical gold with newly printed $'s (monitization of gold) and then dumps it on the open market for a 99.99% profit. Average gold cost=$330 Average sale=$270. Cost to print $330=$0.10 Profit=$269.90 In this way gold, silver and other commodities are monetized just like all other property. With this profit the Treasury can manipulate the stock, bond and commodity markets up or down any way it wants and profit from it. In this way gold becomes credit creation gold made up of a bundle of commodities (metals, fuels, grains and housing) All this came into being when Clinton could not get his Medical Security Trust passed. Like Social Security the Medical Trust Fund would not consist of real economic assets. Like with the Social Security Fund the surplus is placed into the general fund. The government has found another way to raise revenue other then to raise taxes. The money supply as represented on the books of banks is created by credit on property. Gold and silver and other commodities are monetized by simply printing the dollars to buy them and dump it. Once monetized it becomes part of the money supply. The dollar will stay supreme even if the economy tanks.---------- If people had any sense they would monetize their own debt.............................! Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 20:08:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 58240) Steve H Bill Bonner reported today that housing refi and new mortgages were down. How will this effect Fanny? IMHO we are going to have one helluva mess on our hands when this thing breaks loose, next week I believe. SteveH (07/17/01; 19:12:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 58239) Fanny Was only half-awake this morning when I heard the CEO? of Fanny Mae say that their success should last for a while as long as the Fed can keep interest rates lower and thus inflation. I got the distinct impression that this person was an insider and that the GSE was being used to hold housing values up so the consumer could refinance debt and aid in the economies future. I also thought that the lower interest rate by the Fed was critical to a strong dollar, low inflation, and a stronger consumer. Lots at stake here. SteveH (07/17/01; 19:06:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 58238) Gandalf Christian's point was also made yesterday on Kitco by another poster. It is just a rumor but makes plenty of sense. US sells bonds to US mine(s) who sells forward gold to US treasury, maybe ESF or intermediary bullion bank middle person. Gold delivered in future used to sell down the gold market and proceeds used to 1) depress gold price and 2) perhaps used by PPT for their purposes, and 3) oil for gold(?). Plus US stash not touched. Steady supply of gold comes in each year from forward sold gold and process repeats. Scheme may have difficulty as other large buyers catch on and intervene or become buyers themselves thus creating a race for the gold. Probably where we are at now. Thus change of gold from US owned to custodial to deep storage. All conjecture of course. Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 18:58:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 58237) auspec LOL...That one's a corker and a keeper! I couldn't stop laughing! Good job! Looks like this board has it's own personal stand up comic. Gandalf the White (07/17/01; 18:46:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 58236) auspec's internet "Friends" ? "More perspective; here's a few 'matchups' for possible coming battles:Shifty vs. The OppenheimersWIZ vs. The Rothchildscb2 vs. The Rockfeller FoundationCanuck vs. Teddy KennedyAuspec's Comments: This letter is chilling and I can see its source as none other then 'The Anti-auspec'. Oh, that it were only a mere prank. These are clearly not the thoughts of a sane or rational individual. Could our gold enemies possibly be as juvenile as this letter??? LET'S HOPE SO! I'm gonna 'hit all the bids' tomorrow. Outta here, heading for the re-training center {CNBC}.It's been nice,++++++++ROFL !!The WIZ is looking forward to "battling" the Rothchilds again !! Twas years ago that I met with them in Europe. Very nice family. Oh, BTW, they fight with bloodless type techniques and it was over a chess board that we "battled".<;-) Gandalf the White (07/17/01; 18:36:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 58235) Christian (07/17/01; 17:36:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 58231) Please go slowly and help me and the Hobbits try to understand what you said. "There are two ways for money to come into circulation: (1) borrow it into circulation; (2) print $330, buy 1 oz of gold and sell it on the open market for $270. It costs the Government 10 cents to print that $330."===Questions: Are you saying that the US Government is buying physical gold and then selling it on the open market ? Where and how are they selling it on the "market". Are these secret sales ? Where is the "Profit" going ? Is this how they are reducing the debt and getting budget surpluses ? Where are you getting your information ? "Deepthroat" perhaps ?===<;-) auspec (07/17/01; 18:28:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 58234) A Look From The Other Side Chance Encounter? I recently received an anonymous, disconcerting, and semi-literate warning on ATF&G {Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Gold} Official letterhead. It was addressed to me personally, but it also was, as per instructions, for my 'friends'. Please take a deep breath and I will reproduce the portions that are sufficiently 'family friendly' to be posted here."This letter is to put you on notice that your gold and silver rantings will no longer be tolerated by the State. The 'games' are over and you need to know full well WHO you have been dealing with. You think you can tweak our noses with impunity, you little worm. What incredible hudspeh you have.""We control the gold in the ground and in the vaults, we make the rules, and we can and have ruled gold OUT entirely! Do you think this is mere Monopoly money you so easily disparage? Do you think we can't monitor your every word move and thought? You don't even know who we are, we are so insulated by figureheads and Foundations. Just think of us similar to the C.I.A. {Currency In Action}. Let me tell you this........you will NOT 'see us in court', or anywhere else for that matter. We have the best Judges money can buy, as the most ambitious are our easiest prey.""Do not think WE are in any way predictable because it is YOU goldbrats that are the predictable ones. You are so easily frightened it is comical. A mere semi-monthly 20 to 25 tonne gold auction has you mesmerized and paralyzed. Need I bring up the name Putin? HaHa, what mice your lot is. How about the last 10 years mention of 'digital photography' sending the silver shrinkers to the showers?""You commoners need to wash up a bit if you're going to get a leg up on our esteemed Committee, and if that leg ever reaches the full firing angle, we will wag the whole damn dog, believe it. Speaking of dogs, just think of your masters as Pavlov and yourselves as getting very, very hungry. Do you think Clinton was an anomoly, and all the other politicians are honestly working on your behalf? Think the Amerikan people are retrievable?" "There is a correct way of thinking and acting and those few of you don't catch on by reading acceptable newspapers, magazines, or tuning in to TV or Holywood, will bear the brunt of that choice. You peons cannot even control your appetites or spending habits and you think you know best when it comes to MONEY? We control world media, religion, economics, education, as well as MANNA, in fact we hold the patent on MANNA, in spite of what you may have read in some irrelevant and antiquated book.""WE thrive on SECRECY - what do you internuts know about the BIS, IMF, ESF or the LBM for example? If we wanted you to know something we would invite you to our annual retreat for some {Bilder} burgers and cake. Must we explain the feudal system to you over and over again?" "Do you know that your every phone call, fax, e-mail or computer hit is at our fingertips also? We have techniques that can scramble and cause chaos on any given internet site and these techniques have now been successfully tested at USAGOLD this last month. Rense is next. Remember who invented the internet in the first place!" "All these Midas', OROS, Truck Guides, prognosticators, chartists, amateur lawyers and analysts; if they really wanted to play Professor they should have gone to "HAAVAD", Yale or Oxford. Bunch of Patrick Henry wannabees, Mel Gibson Patriots-in-waiting, those days are long gone and we 'Brits" are pretty much back in control of the Colonies. Your Constitution has a severe case of constipation alternating with watered down runs, it's ancient history. The only sovereignty you'll see from now on would be a British gold coin that survives confiscation." "Let me drop a few hints your way, Mr. auspec, or whoever the hell you are today: FDR2, RMN2, metal detectors, Echelon, federal officials overlooking opening of safe deposit boxes, Central Banks standing ready to lease gold from every one of their orifices, Alamo, boxcars and shackles. Have a nice day! You wanna play with the big boyz? Take on the Red-Coats? WE have harvested the finest from everywhere on the globe and no bunch of Ms. Fitts is going to stand in our way of world dominion. Greenspan is so far advanced mere mortals can't even understand him. He has evolved MANY lives past his goldnat days, get over it." "Let me just ask you a few questions, so as to put this simple 'skirmish' in proper perspective. Do youse guys have unending sources of finances? HUD cash is mere pocket change in our world. Do you have countless hopeless bureaucrats standing ready to {re}lease buggery on you behalf? Step out of line and you will entertain IRS agents, or other govt investigative bodies in your shrinking spare time. Ask Catt Fitts how much fun that was." "We may not yet tax your beloved internet, but the massses will demand 'regulation' after proper exposure of just how damaging the net can be 'the children'. Don't look for "this is only a test" on your favorite chat site when FEMA orders rule." "Maybe you don't fully understand the complex mathematical formulas behind derivaties, leaving you so vulnerable to a pro-gold and silver position. Infinity is not just a fancy schmancy car. And you plan to squirrel away a bit of gold and silver for'protection'? HA! Does it seem like the supply of gold and silver are limitless as you follow COMEX? Do ya feel lucky, sucker? You cannot trust your lying eyes to discern truth, watch what we SAY not what we do." "More perspective; here's a few 'matchups' for possible coming battles:Shifty vs. The OppenheimersWIZ vs. The Rothchildscb2 vs. The Rockfeller FoundationCanuck vs. Teddy KennedyOK, OK, so maybe we'll make Canuck swim drunk and upstream against TK {just drunk}, but you get the idea, the odds are not with you." ENDComments: This letter is chilling and I can see its source as none other then 'The Anti-auspec'. Oh, that it were only a mere prank. These are clearly not the thoughts of a sane or rational individual. Could our gold enemies possibly be as juvenile as this letter??? LET'S HOPE SO! I'm gonna 'hit all the bids' tomorrow. Outta here, heading for the re-training center {CNBC}.It's been nice,auspec P.S. Hang in there! Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 18:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 58233) Horatio Agreed! A miner's strike is the perfect cover for a move in gold. They won't need a war for this, at least not yet. I know that they're getting ready for one though because smart money has been in defense stocks for over a year. Maybe later this year or early next year. It should be interesting to see if Comex "stands aside" as TG has predicted. We'll know shortly. Cavan Man (07/17/01; 17:37:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 58232) Belgian 58228 My opinion: Japan need the sales. We're their best customer. They're in the dollar camp. Christian (07/17/01; 17:36:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 58231) (No Subject) Treasury is now goosing the stock market one way or the other on a daily basis. This administration like the previous administration is using gold, silver and other commodities to support banking and bankers. There is two ways for money to come into circulation, (1) borrow it into circulation, (2) print $330, buy 1 oz of gold and sell it on the open market for $270. It costs the Government 10 cents to print that $330. That still leaves a profit of $269.90. This is like farming, mining, which are a dangerous form of exploitation for it is driven by the force of capitalism, which dictates that profit must be made through least cost. Low cost of gold provides stability to the dollar. There is presently $18 trillion interest rate derivative position at Chase Morgan alone and there is at least another $100 trillion interest rate derivatives on the books with all the other banks in the USA. Our money supply as represented on the books of banks is created by credit on some form of property. Gold is no longer represented on the books of banks nor can be created by credit. Gold is simply used to fund banking. Credit creation gold made up of a bundle of commodities (metals, fuels, grains) and housing now represents the book value of banks all created by credit. Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 17:24:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 58230) Secret Societies In response to Belgians query re: the Bilderbergers, I offer whatever meager information that I have. One caveat before we start. I am not a member of these groups (LOL) so I cannot guarantee the accuracy of my data.The Bilderbergers are a fairly secretive and very well guarded group. The link I provided gives a lot of info on them via newspaper articles. I do know that they were founded in 1954 by one of the crown princes of Europe. Their first meeting was at the Bilderberg Hotel in the Netherlands hence the name. At least one reporter has faced arrest and detention trying to get stories on them. They would seem to be one of the higher up groups in the cabal world. Certainly higher than the CFR and The Trilateral Commission. If Rockefeller and Rothschild are there, that has to be significant.These have to be two of the richest families in the world. Supposedly Rockefeller bought Japan after WWII. If you go the Sony website, they explain the origin of their name as have something to do with "sonic". I heard that it had more to do with Standard Oil of New York. In any case, Rothschild is no slouch either. He tries to keep a low profile and enjoys having a financial reputation of something of a has been, but this is anything but true. Both of these families have probably achieved trillionaire status. I find it difficult to believe that these men could be front running someone even more powerful.The organization would appear to have both it's regulars as well as occasional guests. Many well known names have attended one or more meetings including the three wise men (Soros, Buffett & Gates). Lord Rees-Mogg (former editor of the London Times) has attended a meeting as well and he, along with Davidson and Bonner (of Daily Reckoning fame) would appear to be on our side.There are of course many other powerful societies but their level in the hierarchy I do not know. The Committee of 300, the Bavarian Illuminati, Skull and Bones etc. David Guyatt claims on his site that Skull & Bones is at the pinnacle of power. But his arguments are not as well researched as his work on black gold. I have my doubts about Skull & Bones being part of the power elite. I have an extensive article on this organization written by a former Yale student (Skull & Bones resides at Yale) which would seem to thoroughly debunk Skull & Bones as a powerful society, likening it more to a college fraternity (and a rather amusing one at that). It is rather long and not on topic so I hesitate to post it.There are also powerful organizations like Majestic-12, claimed to be a secret government within the US government. For more information on this, go to www.abovetopsecret.com. And then there are the Japanese societies but that's another long topic.In addition I should mention a little known secret society known as The Club of Isles. I have found very little information on this group. It is supposedly made up of the former crowns of Europe and led by Queen Elizabeth. They apparently want their kingdoms back and would like all of us to be their merry serfs and till their fields for them. This is one of the reasons why I constantly harp on the issue of the power elite wanting to return all of us to a state of servitude. The Queen of Hearts would like her colonies back!In fact I did read an article somewhere which said something to the effect that in order to end the American revolutionary war and sign a treaty, our Founding Fathers had to agree to give the Chancellor of the Exchequer of Great Britain some sort of financial power in the fledgling country. We may well have a number of disadvantageous treaties (including NATO, the UN etc.) which supersede our Constitution and it could wind up being in our own interest to start a war with Europe in order to abrogate these treaties.The concept of trans-generational secret societies is an interesting one. I have had my doubts about the ability of these men to achieve an ongoing conspiracy spanning many centuries. The reason for this is simple. These men are invariably psychopaths (some would say partial psychopaths, I would say smart psychopaths) and their primary motivation is always self interest. They can have no true loyalty to a cause or organization in the sense that you or I would understand the word "loyalty". They have no true honor. They find themselves, by inheritance, a member of an old organization, and as long as it provides a return to them, they stay with it. On the day that the Bilderbergers no longer provided them with any benefits, they would abandon it in a heartbeat. So their conspiracy is accidental, more by happenstance and possibly temporary.In fact, a better example of a trans-generational society (though not secret) would be American patriots. While their inheritance is also serendipitous, they take it to heart and admire greatly the Founding Fathers, men of great moral courage, intellectual honesty and ethics. These people are not psychopaths. They are the opposite of psychopaths, they are men of honor. They stick with their nation through thick and thin. No "summer soldiers" or "sunshine patriots" here. This is a true trans-generational society. In fact one could say that the patriots of any nation, make up a trans-generational society. The Bilderbergers are cohesive only while it is in their interest.That's about all that I know of secret societies. I hope that helps Belgian! Horatio (07/17/01; 16:41:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 58229) South Africa A strike in S.A. only means that that the hedging is over ,its a contrived method reverseing the fortunes of gold. It means they can't borrow any more gold to sell and therefore have GOTTEN ALL THEY ARE GOING TO GET out of S.A,SO WHY NOT make some money on the up side.Taking S.A. gold production off the market will surely boost gold prices in the rest of the world even though S.A. stocks may be left behind.Time to buy gold stocks OUTSIDE of S.A..Canada , U.S. and Australia are politically safe and have good stock markets.A strike is a perfect cover story for the minipulation that is about to take place.Remember, this whole business started with a plot to get future production in S.A.out of the ground buy selling above ground gold and mortgaging whats left in the ground.Then spiriting the cash out of S.A..British gold sales are nothing more than laundering gold for the "Anglo"and the Cabal .Simply to get the wealth out of the ground. The strike will be the perfect cover story.imho Belgian (07/17/01; 16:27:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 58228) Yours Opinion on... The € and Yen are fluctuating approximately at parity for some time now. What if the Japanese intend or threathen with connecting the Yen to the € and use their vast dollar-reserves as a stick behind the door ? More and more possibilities to challenge the US supremacy seem to exist. Belgian (07/17/01; 16:11:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 58227) @ HBM Yes Sir, I jumped on the Bilderbergers. Thanks to that gentle little push of yours, in your last posting.Very, very instructive from A to Z. A few ephemeric reflexions after diagonal reading. There are a lot of FOA fundamentals, clearly recognizable, in the 50 years of history. A subtle relationship between Europ and the US that resulted out of D-day 1945. The Belgian and Dutch participants/members aren't a surprise to me (you warned me). The characteristics of these captains are well known.I suspect the (OPEC)oil/Euro link is a very high probability. Bernhard from Holland-Royal Dutch-France-Saddam Hussein and the oil/€ trial balloon-etc...all these little shacles of the chain. So far I couldn't detect any gold links. With the maigre exception that Davignon is Anglo American connected and South Africa sympathized.Most of the mentionned captains of industry have strong interest in a strong dollar (their corporations). I will be jig sawing for a couple of weeks with everything that the yahoo searcher can come up with, about the Bilderberger pragmatics.The word "stability" pops up in almost every speech. Is Genoa going to focus on "currency" stability with or without our beloved Yellow ? What other buffer can we come up with for the coming transition in €/$ relationship ?It is crystal clear that the original EMU-thinkers / planners, already wanted a "strong" Europ. And today they have to agree/barter with the US, about "how strong" Europ is wished to be. So the finilization of this agreement must already have been prepared and must be the reason why the US and EMU, made arrangements about Gold ? These arrangements must have started in 1994/96 where all of a sudden POG started to behave in a difficult to explain way.(my chart interpretation)Three in the forest, do correct me if I'm wrong or imprecize. Thanks. Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 15:57:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 58226) Manufacturing capacity utilization Bullion at the other board says that manufacturing capacity utilization is at it's lowest since 1983. Wow. Not very encouraging is it?. CoBra(too) (07/17/01; 15:56:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 58225) @CM - I would if I could ... - Got a leetle beetle in my system - so just hold on until I can, again communicate, without the problem. And as I tried to hide behind the bottle of Tullamore Dew - I was found out just to be swilling the other brown brew - See you - and take care too - cb2 Tree in the Forest (07/17/01; 15:53:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 58224) Steve H, TIH, Belgian Steve H: Hasn't Christian been saying for a while that the US has been selling gold into the ground and using the proceeds to prop up the market? Well they could have done this through the ESF or through JPM/Chase and Goldman Sachs. Maybe all three are involved.TIH, Belgian: Gold will go next week. They're gonna slice the dollar real thin at Genoa. Anyone want a $alami $andwich? Cavan Man (07/17/01; 15:38:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 58223) @CB(too) Enough of that Tullamore Dew and send a post card (would you!)?.....CM CoBra(too) (07/17/01; 14:58:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 58222) Genoa - A Challenge or a golden Opportunity!? Woe is me ... shame and scandal to the global family ...as we can't see across golden handshakes, South Tyrolean earthquakes, milkshakes and G-Spans mistakes. Shucks, JPM/C and GS sucks ... the rest of us dry - on derivative monstrosities a' la Dracula's prey. TIH & Belgium ... As you've been reading between the lines - So have I! Though I definitely suspect, this Genoa Meeting may very well be historically compared to the 1922 Genoa Meeting (Gold Standard watered down to gold exchange standard). As we can't expect a new gold standard - I, personally don't expect anything close to a pre 1922 G.Std. (almost wrote GS (god bless, or better forbid!) - but the question is, can we go on, on a monetary status dominated by the US$ on a global basis? Pricing any and every real product in paper fiat and, additionally on credit from the FED, just for the sake of keeping the status qou in limbo? Well, I, for one don't think so! The product and produce of my work, as maybe the rest of the world will see, won't be free of charge, just because it was bought at large by fiat credit from creditors without the merit of repaying in kind. - And what comes to mind - Richebaecher's postulations of the consumer of last resort! A great concept - as long as it lasts - and then, you can do more to prolong the feat and cheat by using the core of the $-Reserve supremacy to extasy. As the world will applaud, loud and clear for a while, before it sinks in ... hey, Juan, Hans, John and Min, we're effectively working for our kin in the US of A - extolling our produce for the abuse of our own suffuse - in a currency sense - abstruse! Back to Genoa - and as I feel, there will be some political clout to challenge the $-Supremacy, no doubt? As long as the US represented the global engine of economic growth, no-one dared or wished to put the spanner to the wheels, though, now it's more like the export of inflation, which feels like the initiation of spinning wheels. An eerie semblance of a notion of long forgotten boom and bust cycles, in the economic, com(ic)mon sense, left behind in the hyper productive new era of cyber-tech non-sense. So, where do we go from here? To a recession, depression scenario? - May be the best bet, yet there may be some other alternatives, as in perusing the vastly differing stages of development of the rest of the world in a positive and not abusive manner - would be real Manna! ... Though I doubt, that this spin will be spun out, without the clout of the US$ -et al hammer! Again, back to Genoa! Got lost again ... because, in vain, I was speculating as to the intent of this event. Though, still I feel the real issue at stake, will be who's money will be either ongoing supremacy, or else in jeopardy! In essence - they, who may have the gold will rule - pray, that they convey to the challenge ... and come true .. cb2 escapethematrix (07/17/01; 14:24:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 58221) The U.K slides ever closer......... http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AO1SMXxPQRXVybyBH Snippet:``If the U.K. is going to try to move into the euro, it will need a lot of political support, and having the support of Tories will be an advantage,'' said David Gilmore, a partner at Foreign Exchange Analytics in Essex, Connecticut. ``It won't seal the deal, but it will make it closer.As TG has said, just the perception of the eventuality of itwill get the ball rolling. Netking (07/17/01; 13:05:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 58220) @Jayze http://www.platts.com/stories/pr1.html Jayze - still meeting & negotiating?Snippit;"South Africa's National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) and all major gold producers are to meet Tuesday with the Chamber of Mines of South Africa in a final bid to resolve a negotiations deadlock, a NUM spokesperson said Monday. If gold producers are unwilling to accept NUM proposals, or don't have realistic proposals of their own, a ballot on a national strike will take place among the 155,000 mine workers, the spokesperson said. . . ." Netking (07/17/01; 12:59:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 58219) Belgian (58209)Sir Belgian,I'm expecting a good finish to the year for PM's. We know what's going to happen, but timing is always more difficult yes unless our name was W D Gann! The 'Mighty USD' looks tired, the Euro's time in the sun will come. Gold charts in Euro & AUD look interesting currently. Not a time to be in many equities especially some bank stocks. jayzee (07/17/01; 12:17:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 58218) So. African Gold Miners Strike Has anyone found any news about the possible gold miners strike in SA? If so, please post important parts of the news, or give a source. Thanks!!!!I believe that the banks and foreign governments will pressure the SA Government and the mines to settle, in order to keep the POG low. admin (07/17/01; 11:25:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 58217) Sennholz?? Good background from Sennholz found down the hall and to the left http://www.usagold.com/SennholzPerilDollar.html "A Perilous Dollar Standard" in The GILDED OPINIONIt begins:"Hardly a year passes without a financial crisis. In 1998 the virtual collapse of the Russian economy led to serious losses on markets in Asia and Latin America. And the spectacular crack-up of a prestigious investment fund, Long-term Capital Management of Greenwich, CT, shook U.S. markets. The Federal Reserve felt compelled to move three times to stimulate economic activity by easing credit conditions to keep the U.S. economy from falling into a recession. The world monetary order which rests on the U.S. dollar as the most prominent reserve currency seems to be no stronger than the weakest link......." Old Yeller (07/17/01; 11:08:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 58216) Sennholz weighs in on the Fed http://www.sennholz.com/ratecuts.html Yet another well presented and articulate questioning of the Fed's management of the world's economic destiny.Isn't it amazing what little interest the mainstream financial media has in positions such as this,while in the meantime,hanging breathlessly on Greenie's confusing and amorphous ramblings.Thanks to Ed Bugos for the link. Belgian (07/17/01; 09:54:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 58215) Whoops Bushps Another word from the speach "stability" in the context of currency ! Where does that sudden Duisenbergh-ites comes from ? Georgie goes euro ? Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD (07/17/01; 09:47:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 58214) Hard assets... Easy access! http://www.usagold.com/gold/coins/liberty.html
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