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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 4/17/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Black Blade (04/17/01; 22:47:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 52071) US Futures Up Sharply http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm The game's afoot. Drawn like moths to the flame, the NY open looks to be active. Part of this can also be attributed to higher crude oil inventories. Oil isn't so much the problem going forward, the real problem is energy. Utility rates are still high and generation capacity is problematic. - Black Blade Black Blade (04/17/01; 22:43:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 52070) Asia Up Tonight http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u Asia seems to think that they have the "Green Light." Markets are moving higher. Japan's exports to the US have fallen off sharply. People appear to be willing to pay up for declining earnings.- Black Blade Black Blade (04/17/01; 22:40:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 52069) After Hours Trades on a Tear! http://toplist.island.com/toplist/top20.jsp?AH=on After hours trading indicates a strong upward move in stocks. The reason appears to be that analysts estimates have been met or exceeded with several earnings reports. What everyone seems to be missing is that these estimates were dropped so low. For example, Intel (INTC) exceeded estimates by one penny at 16 cents. Last year Intel earned 36 cents per share. People are gullible and when they are told that estimates have been met, they don't bother to look behind the numbers. There is also a number of accounting tricks used as well. One famous trick is to count inventory as receivables. A big setup is in the works and many unsuspecting investors will get whip-sawed. Something else overlooked is the logarithmic expansion of job layoffs. There were even rallies during the 1929 crash so this should not be completely unexpected.- Black Blade abudahhab (04/17/01; 22:12:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 52068) beesting Indeed, it is best to buy your favorite real estate with little down and as long term a fix-rate mortage as is possible. You might repay the mortgage with a 1/20 oz coin when the hyperinflation ends.Heck, with a 1oz coin, you might be able to buy your local Sheraton Hotel! It'd be kinda cool to own one with a big revolving restaurant on top! beesting (04/17/01; 22:06:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 52067) $30,000 per ounce Gold! Mr. Gresham # 52058***Sherlock Holmes!I have to be very careful with this wild imigination of mine, but so far, as long as I've done my best to be courteous all the kind folks at USAGOLD have tolerated me.Thank you for this forum USAGOLD!A lot of posters have had trouble imigining what life would be like if Gold was $30,000.00 per ounce. Well here is a possibile scenario:Almost every form of dollar paper wealth may plummet in price because of paper "debt" defaults or threats of default. Look at the stock markets and the real estate values in Japan, dollar(and Yen) prices went down, not up, because the big banks over extended themselves, most of them have not even been allowed to default yet. The real values of things in the U.S. have been horribly distorted by the over abundance of issued paper.(real estate included) There are way too many paper dollars already in circulation and an energy shortage in the U.S. could cause eventual wide spread unemployment and a chain reaction in defaults or threats of default! As things get repossed they are auctioned off at ever cheaper prices! Could the IMF bail out the USA?....."I Don't Think So"!!!The Gold in your pocket is unencumbered wealth! If you have large item debts,the $30,000.00 per ounce Gold would allow you to pay them all off, if you have the fore sight and means to stock up at current prices.Think of your Gold as your collateral. You could use it the same way the Central banks use it, for backing of your own issued money.....personal checks,,,,, or any other medium of exchange up to the value of your own Gold.Using the internet it is now possible to become your own debt free bank using Gold as collateral.Under this scenario the Gold in your pocket may be worth more than the banks assets, down the street from you, as their loans are defaulted on. This may be very difficult for Americans to understand because we have lived in a debt driven society for so long, and it also might never happen, but please think about this as the dollar debts are slowly defaulted on the dollar would lose value because the U.S. dollar is backed mostly by "DEBT"!I think this is why some predicted long ago(ANOTHER/FOA) that paper Gold may plummet in dollar price(Comex & LBMA) as physical Gold appriciates in price at the same time.Nuff Said, Thanks for Reading....beesting. IronHead (04/17/01; 21:46:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 52066) Galearis RE:your #52051 Sir Galearis - The thought you provided, "farmers will again be the truly wealthy," was brought forth strongly to me this morning as I awoke to a local radio news program which told of the nearby large sugar beat processing plant shutting down, due to low sugar prices. The effect would be to idle appoximately 50 farms in the region.My first immediate reaction was of sympathy and sorrow for individuals and families which would be effected by this news. Quickly my grief was suspended when the report indicated that those farms would not be greatly hurt due to - {{no kidding here folks}} buybacks of power and water via new subsidy programs.So we just import a little more cheap food product, print a little more money to pay the wheat rancher to *not* grow wheat via the "set aside program," the dairy farmer to *not* squeeze teets, and now the beat farmer gets paid to *not* use power or water. This is too great for goldhearts not to get in on, somehow. Perhaps we could not mine gold and sell our not yet real production, in some foward scheme thru an exchange. If all else fails we can get the printers to keep our mines afloat by bying back power......Oh, somebody already thought of that...Hmmm. Galearis Sir, with all due respect I think we had all better become farmers, in both the literal and more important, symbolic sense of real producers. For soon it seems, all the reality in the world will be *not*. I've got a hunch our resident alchemist is already aware of this.Salutations,IronHead Horatio (04/17/01; 20:21:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 52065) Don't cry for me Argentina ! Argentina sells gold and alignes itself with the Dollar just in time to kill its trade exports.The Peso gets too strong because of its Dollar associatian in trade terms.Now they want out of that and flee to the Euro when its about to rise in relation to the Dollar.Brazil who trades with Argentina devalues and Argentina gets it in the neck.Why on earth would Argentina do such stupid things unless the Bankers forced it to and had plans to bankrupt it and foreclose on its assets.Argentina tell the Bankers to F--k Off and get your trade in balance ,then you will earn your money instead of Borrowing it from Shysters.Theres no free lunch. JMB (04/17/01; 20:13:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 52064) Fannie & Freddie http://washington.bcentral.com/washington/stories/2001/04/16/story1.html Bubble Trouble? Tree in the Forest (04/17/01; 20:11:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 52063) beesting, R Powell, Galearis Beesting: Good one sir! That's using the old noodle. That date ties in well with other forces that are coming together in synchronicity. This summer for sure!R Powell: Don't despair my friend. Re-read sir beesting's post and know that the day of our salvation is not far now.Galearis: I believe that the pain of this dislocation will be relatively short lived. Months, not decades. At least for those who hold the yellow metal. Just a feeling. auspec (04/17/01; 18:52:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 52062) A Smattering of Opinions Belgian{t}, Netking, j'Bear, Canuck, Galearis That opinion and a $100 bill may buy a cup of coffee some day, right Sir Galearis?Netking--- "Da Boys" from the 'Club of Rome' will have our wonderful electronic credits in place long before then." {Before 30K POG}. Well spoken. Are they going to take the dollar down in route to NWO? My experience tells me the Banana lives/limps on, yet my single 'prophetic brain cell' says digital is the future, ASAP {within 10 years}. Something has to happen to the dollar for this to transpire.jBear---"...the 'gummint' will move to set a price {..$850-900}, and confiscate." What makes you think they would treat us gold advocates in such an unworthy manner {ha}? Let's see........what did they fairly recently do to Kruggerrands? Yes, they were Au Non Grata there for a while, no? Maybe they'll give in, let us have our wealth of ages, and send us all congratulatory messages {a phone call from GWB perhaps}.Canuck---"Why the EURO and pro-gold crowd will prevail DEFACTO?" "Why is this an absolute?" There does seem to be a multitude of different chromas between the whiteness and the blackness of the dollar world. Are we looking for a once in a lifetime event on a fairly tight time projection? I will NEVER doubt that a US Dollar CATACLYSM could take place, and deservedly so, but it still seems the extreme.Belgian---"The reason we are unwillingly, focused on the dollar is because of his "DOMINANCE"! Appreciation or Depreciation can only be measured against a reference standard. And everybody is taking this US$-standard as for granted." Yes they are, Sir Belgian, and that why it continues to defy gravity! A false confidence it is. It is not so deserving, largely because its true competitor, our friend, has been maligned and pummeled maliciously. They have gone way overboard and there will be hell to pay!Galearis---"The question for me is NOT how high the price of gold in USD the gold bull will generate, but at what price I will STOP selling this metal? Will $10,000 per ounce be the warning? $15,000?" Well thought and spoken! A question for you to consider: At what point do you want to be without medical or home INSURANCE? Some of that Yellow will find my ancestors, like Belgian's fortunate heirs. We will certainly have to be on our toes because damn near anything can happen. Some of my soon expected silver profits are likely to pay down some real estate as it seems to have some staying power. I melted a lot of 'paper' profits from the last gold bull and now know better.It is apparent we are looking down the barrel of a major life changing crisis IF this does get out of hand. Our way of life and dear Constitution may be ultimately linked to the USD. Doubt it? What besides the freedoms guaranteed in our Constitution {including and especially freedom of religion} and this nation's sovereignty stand more in the way of NWO? China also comes to mind. Better just root for that $1500 POG and a "co-{reserve}currency".Best to all,au{in}spec{tor} {Clouseau} IronHead (04/17/01; 17:49:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 52061) Randy (@ The Tower) Sir Randy - Your horse is probably burdened aplenty with preparations for jousts with Sir ET, and other daily gatherings. However, in your spare time, have you given consideration to adding a fifth page to the "Thoughts of Another" anthology; with recent updates from the return of our esteemed figure? Randy (@ The Tower) (04/17/01; 17:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 52060) Sweet Argentina...a big departure from the "dollarization" stirrings of a year ago! http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010417/n17605112.html HEADLINE: Argentina's Cavallo sends euro peg bill to CongressBUENOS AIRES, Argentina, April 17 (Reuters) - Economy Minister Domingo Cavallo, architect of the Argentine peso's 10-year-old peg to the U.S. dollar, has sent Congress a bill that would scrap that plan in favor of one that would tie the peso to both the euro and the U.S. currency.-------Somewhat applauded in this early stage by the Argentine congress, yet panned by the markets, Deputy Economy Minister Daniel Marx had this to say about the plan:"From the acceptance it will have in Argentina, it will be taken in by the markets. Obviously, many people operating abroad do not have the details (of the plan)."And in what has to be the quote of the day, EcMin Cavallo has described such nervous, naysaying investors as being "young boys ... who make myopic decisions and they are usually wrong."Keep in mind that the current peg of the convertible peso that Cavallo established in 1991 requires that each circulating peso is backed by a dollar in reserves.In light of that understanding, now read this slowly and let the implications sink in. He indicated that the new plan calls for an even split between dollars and euros held in reserves.In other words, HALF of the dollar-denominated reserves now held would be free to hit the forex market to bid for euros. I tip my hat to this tactful method of repatriating an unwanted BULK of dollars, though I'm sure Mssrs. Greenspan and O'Neill see this loud and clear as yet another step in the inevitable end of the "strong dollar".got gold? Randy (@ The Tower) (04/17/01; 15:32:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 52059) Building perspective: It can happen "there"... it can happen "anywhere" In the last three months the Turkish currency crisis leading to the decision to abandon the peg to the dollar and freely float the national currency has propelled the gold price for locals from 180 million lira per ounce in February to 316 million lira per ounce today.What has that done to the Istanbul gold trade? Let's have a look at yesterday's release of data through Bridge News...---TURKEY CRISIS: Istanbul bourse gold trade up 76% on wk Apr 9-13 Istanbul, April 16 (BridgeNews) - The volume of gold trading on the Istanbul Gold Exchange during April 9-13 rose by 76% to 1,719 kilograms compared with the previous volume between April 2-6, the exchange's Internet Web site reported Monday. It said local gold prices rose during April 9-13 by the lira equivalent of $1.43 per ounce to $256.60 per ounce.---That's some good, physical trade there, my friends. Now, let's have a look down the road at the clandestine movement of physical gold in India, and the appearance of chinks in the armor of bullion banking, also brought to us by Bridge News (reprinted at USAGOLD by permission) ...---HEADLINE: Indian bullion prices ease, smuggled gold supplies seen rising Mumbai, April 16 (BridgeNews) - Indian gold prices softened amid increased supply of unofficial gold, with supplies from banks thinning following the bullion payment crisis in the past week. Banks tightened gold trading norms on weak market sentiment after the failure of some leading bullion traders in Ahmedabad, the country's gold import center, to deliver contracted volumes.---In the final reckoning of a banking crises, only metal shall weather the storm. "Get you some." Mr Gresham (04/17/01; 15:32:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 52058) beesting (04/17/01; 14:11:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 52049) Or should we say, Sherlock? Great detective thinking! (Here's where you get to say "Elementary, my dear Gresham...")It would be a fascinating outcome if this were all happening under a locked-in date certain having something to do with inter-government debts and gold obligations. That would tend to explain the vagueness of the hints we are getting, and of course the governments concerned would be completely silent on it, awaiting the outcome which would not be aided by publicity.The likelihood of US meeting such an obligation is slim, IMO, but if it were kept cheap and unhumiliating, that likelihood would improve, so all would have an interest in keeping the public in the dark.Impossible to prove or disprove at this time, of course. Just one of several inferential models we can keep in our own spotlight, and then TWT. Black Blade (04/17/01; 15:13:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 52057) RE: Ironhead Hey - Thanks! I'll bookmark it and look it over when I have time. I gotta step out for bit. Again thanks.- Black Blade Randy (@ The Tower) (04/17/01; 15:09:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 52056) For those who missed the Fifth Horseman contest announcement yesterday... http://www.usagold.com/hall/NewHorseman.html#anchor2776677 Congratulations to our German 20 mark gold winner canamami, and our silver eagle runners-up R Powell, Econoclast, CoBra(too), justamereBear, and Journeyman. The metal you've earned should be on its way shortly from the Centennial treasury.And as announced April 6th at the conclusion of the price guessing contest, our tenth-ounce gold philharmonic winner was indeed VanRip. It is my understanding that your coin has already left the packaging room. On a related note, I gathered from your msg#: 51986 that you seem to be expecting a silver eagle for guessing second-best on a previous archery contest. Nice try, sharp shooter, but runner-up prizes are given only in the essay contests. For the price-guess contests, there is only a single gold prize...or else cold soup of your own design if you miss the mark!Congrats! And thanks again to MK for his generosity in sponsoring these contests in addition to footing the bill for this website.Show your support, people. Call Centennial when the time is right for YOU to add precious metals to YOUR OWN portfolio. (Nobody will do this for you, but Centennial will gladly do their part to help!) IronHead (04/17/01; 15:01:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 52055) Econoclast and Black Blade - Talking Fed Heads http://www.federalreserve.gov/BoardDocs/Speeches/2000/. Happy reading good Sirs - This site has ALL the Fed Heads public speeches, including The Master Illusionist's comments on new para dimes and careless free energy eras, which we are surely in now, no? I remember the speech, but can't recall which of the Master's morass' contained such drivel. admin (04/17/01; 14:50:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 52054) RPowell Could you please contact the Castle Treasury?Prize related.Please ask for Meghen. 800-869-5115 Black Blade (04/17/01; 14:47:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 52053) RE: Econoclast Econoclast - Sorry, but I don't have any written reference to AG's declaration. I was watching his testimony on Capitol Hill and during two of his appearances last year he made the statement. Perhaps if someone has the text of his Washington speeches we could identify the dates of each quote. During one such appearance he even parroted Abby Jo Cohen by stating that retail sales were down because it got cold outside. The old boy is really losing it - Dementia is a terrible thing. - Black Blade Randy (@ The Tower) (04/17/01; 14:36:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 52052) Federal Reserve providing paper liquidity and propping Treasuries --April 2ndTemporary reserves:$2 billion via 28-day repos AND$6.9 via overnights--April 3rdPERMANENT reserves: $1.392 billion through outright purchase of Treasury couponsTemporary reserves:$5.5 billion via overnights--April 4thTemporary reserves:$6.0 billion via overnights--April 5thPERMANENT reserves: $742 million through outright purchase of TreasuriesTemporary reserves:$2.0 billion via 28-day repos AND$6.75 billion via two-week repos AND$3.5 billion via overnights--April 9thTemporary reserves:$2.0 billion via 28-day repos--April 10thPERMANENT reserves: $974 million through outright purchase of Treasuries--April 16thPERMANENT reserves: $702 million through outright purchase of TreasuriesTemporary reserves:$2.01 billion via 28-day repos AND$8.0 billion via overnights--April 17thPERMANENT reserves: $949 million through outright purchase of TreasuriesTemporary reserves:$5.754 billion via two-day reposSuch a "lender of last resort" can "print" currency to *save* the commercial banking system as we see here. When bullion banking falls into a liquidity crunch, no entity exists that can print gold to satisfy physical demand, and only gold holders shall emerge unscathed from a bullion banking crisis. Recall, in London alone the LBMA clears the equivalent of 900 tonnes in gold transactins DAILY (representing each day more than one-third of worldwide ANNUAL production).got metal? Galearis (04/17/01; 14:17:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 52051) @ R. Powell I like it! May I use it?And I would suggest you adopt your nearest farmer as your newest best friend too. (smile)Farmers again will be the truly wealthy.G. R Powell (04/17/01; 14:11:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 52050) O fer day (none out of three) POG, the (XAU) mining stocks index and lease rates all down. Lease rates were just barely lower but the other two indicators gave back almost all of yesterday's gains. I guess we hope for higher highs and higher lows if we can't get gains every day. I would rather have every day gains but that's consistent with human nature. My dad once told me that there is one thing every baby on earth is born with plenty of, enough for a lifetime, given freely to each at birth. Greed. Dad also thought that the earth would be a better place without the human race. I'm still undecided. Rich beesting (04/17/01; 14:11:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 52049) Why is U.S. Treasury Gold Valued at only $42.22 per ounce?? http://www.fms.treas.gov/gold/01-02.html Could the current $42.22 valuation of Gold be connected to the 1971 default by the U.S. Treasury of paper Gold?In past writings by FOA/Trail Guide/ANOTHER(Thank You Sirs!) it was my understanding that certain foreign entities are still holding prior 1971 U.S.debt obligations that represent payment in Gold by the U.S. Treasury. Now,I know zero about international law but when a Government makes or breaks a law it only affects persons directly under the control of that Government. Hence, the term sovereign state.A foreign sovereign Government has the option to accept OR reject actions of a different sovereign Government, or work out some type of agreementIf what FOA/TrailGuide has alluded to, that some of these U.S. Gvt. paper Gold obligations are still being held in safe keeping by foreign sovereign entities after the U.S. worked out some kind of behind the scenes agreement, after the 1971 Gold default, would it seem logical that a time limit was worked out on a settlement date, for payment of the outstanding Gold obligations?Speculating here;What if a new payment date had been set at 30 years after default date, Aug 15, 1971? A very reasonable time frame.That would make the new payment date Aug.15,2001, just around the corner.Now, if the original debt instruments had been worded so the payments of Gold had represented U.S. dollars in stead of by weight(remember in 1971 the U.S. official POG was $35.00 per ounce) $42.22 would have been a healthy markup.Sooo, if by the time Aug. 15, 2001 rolls around and Gold has been bashed,crashed,and stomped for many years by all mainstream financial analysts to set the public mindset that Gold no longer has an important role as a form of money, wouldn't that set the stage for the U.S. Gvt. to finally make good on the Gold debt obligations(with little or no public outcty) that were being held since 1971??? It is also my humble opinion Japan may be a big holder of these Gold debt obligations along with the oil producing nations, because in 1971 the largest trading partners of the U.S. were Japan and the oil countries. Also, Japan & oil countries could have agreed for the last 30 years to not buy large amounts of Gold that would cause a squeeze on Gold inventories forcing prices way up???(they are the ones that had enough dollars to do it.) ANOTHER says,this is the year!!!(He may be an insider,"In The Know"!!!)Only Thoughts as We Watch Events Unfold Together.Thanks for Reading....beesting. Galearis (04/17/01; 14:06:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 52048) @ Sierra Madre There are always more questions than answers, yes. Most of us here understand the problem -even as simply put as my post. But it is the simple things that worry me most.Like walking into a grocery store with my scales and sterling scrap St. Christopher medals (etc.)and asking him for a trade for my daily bread. I can hear me now explaining the history and shortage of precious metals and how they are the new currency of the day... It will (hopefully not come to this) be an additional complication to the quality of life that we that know would wait on those that don't to discover what we all well know here.Life is a learning curve. The line forms on the right. It will take a long time to work to the front.For all the hungry.G. R Powell (04/17/01; 13:53:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 52047) Sierra Madre, Galeris When to sell gold? I have a simple plan all ready for the proper time. When the credit cars companies agree to cancel my debt in exchange for one gold coin, we'll have a deal. Four coins, I believe, for the house mortgage. The finance companies have not responded to my offers yet. I've told them this is a limited time only offer. When the sale of gold eguates debt freedom, then it will be time. May you have more gold than is necessary to sell for debt freedom when the time arrives. Oh, also, live long and prosper! Rich Randy (@ The Tower) (04/17/01; 13:37:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 52046) Mr Gresham, nice question (msg#: 52041) --- "Was the Washington Agreement the most significant event in gold since you were last posting in 1998?"---If I may be so bold, let me anticipate ANOTHER's answer with an answer of my own.The most significant event in gold since the dollar's gold default in 1971 has been the successful launch in 1999 of a long-awaited new currency system built upon neutral (meaning, multi-national) management and, more importantly, a floating gold reserve structure that finally abandoned the now obsolete "fixed" gold legacy of the failed Bretton Woods structure.With this new reserve structure, the prevailing institutional incentive from '71 to the end of the millennium need no longer be one of "price suppression" for the perceived market value of gold.In this light, the most significant element of the Washington Agreement is seen to be NOT the amount of pre-announced gold sales, but rather, the self-imposed curb on gold lending operations by these European central banks. And if you think about it, this action with the Washington Agreement was nearly just a predictable inevitability from the moment the eurosystem committed to provide for freely floating gold reserves. The "tools" of the prior suppression are on the outs. Believe it. The WA simply announced the foregone conclusion in a package suitable for newspaper headlines.Just as the value of the post-'71 paper dollar has long been propped by the international yet artificial "mandate" to hold these dollars almost exclusively as reserves (acting in tandem with the dollar settlement for oil and the overhanging debts of the "Third World"), through this new currency structure gold (and its price/value!) has now been "officially" set free to replace these dollar reserves (savings).The reason this full transition has not already occurred is that institutional interest still exists to foster the smoothest practicable transition until that unknowable moment where the final remaining *SNAP* in the adjustment occurs.Speaking for The Tower and personally, I continue to buy gold with excess funds because I prefer the real wealth of gold over managed paper (and digital) contract currency. As a bonus, the real wealth value of same gold will provide a pleasant benefit upon full completion of the transition in world currencies' reserve structures. (An understatement, to be sure.) Sierra Madre (04/17/01; 13:09:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 52045) Galearis...about gold @$30,000 and silver @$1,500 This from Mexico:About 33 years ago I told one of my subordinates in the business I was running:"In a few years, Sr. X, you will be giving the "car-watcher" a tip of $100 pesos."He was simply astounded and did not believe what I was saying, because he was making $100 pesos a day.But it came to pass, and even surpassed my prediction. Today, a car watcher will likely throw away a tip of $100 pesos (the old pesos, not the new, from which three zeroes have been slashed)At the time, a $50 peso gold piece was worth about $600 paper pesos. Today, it costs, in those same pesos, about $3,100,000, and is a screaming buy.The USA, and the world generally, is going to be as surprised as Mr. X was, when in the fullness of time, reality catches up with financial fiction.A very good question, what to do when gold breaks loose from the shackles of the paper-gold scam?I don't know the answer about when to sell the gold and buy some other assets, of productive nature. We'll have to wait for the event and see the circumstances at the time. Men of ingenuity and courage will be able to found new empires, no doubt.Similar causes produce similar effects. Not even the mighty USA can escape this law of nature. Gold is going, eventually, to unsuspected heights. Hard assets...Easy access (04/17/01; 12:27:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 52044) Graduation gifts from Centennial Precious Metals http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html High school and college graduation ceremonies are right around the corner. Nothing says "Congratulations!" quite as well as the gift of gold.Call Centennial today to put in your own order, and include an extra coin or two. Or ask Marie for help to select the perfect gold coin jewelry item or accessory... using a bullion coin dated with the year of graduation. Perfect! Henri (04/17/01; 11:04:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 52043) FredBear No argument here. Mr Gresham (04/17/01; 10:52:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 52042) SteveH (04/17/01; 02:17:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 52020) Thanks for bringing this to us. I'll be reading it a couple more times today, probably. (Meanwhile, I'll have that theme song from "The Sting" going through my head all day...)Sharefin's post has so many pieces of the observable details we have seen, and the possibilities behind the scenes. Perhaps this could be our working model to ask questions from, and try to iron out the "lumps" that don't quite fit?(What was the date of the "email"? -- sounds back a ways. "JPM" wouldn't be the JPMorgan bank but an individual, right? If the Japanese buy Euros, what does that get them? They sure loved gold during WWII, supposedly, as long as there was a good cave around to hide it in --;)-- And they would certainly mask their gold buying now for as long as they could (via Switzerland?) but you know USA would make it their biz to know all such movements, so is it just a "letting US & its dollar save face" kind of hiding, while not really being able to hide their buying?) Mr Gresham (04/17/01; 10:33:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 52041) ANOTHER: WA, BIS Was the Washington Agreement the most significant event in gold since you were last posting in 1998? Do you have any reflections on those events?Who were the players that made the price spike upward so quickly in 1999, and how was it managed back down? (How were so many "fearless" shorts recruited so quickly?)What is the BIS' role in the "currency war"? Is it somewhat trying to walk the middle of the road? Did the US members take their seats recently as an attempt to manage BIS' involvement, or does this express any measure of US control over BIS? FredBear (04/17/01; 10:04:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 52040) Henri "Some people I have listened to think that energy is far too important to trust to capitalists in an open market."I have been having this conversation with a small group of collectivists elsewhere. Cheap energy is being perceived as a Constitutional right in some parts of that bastion of freedom, the USA.But to say that energy has been in the hands of capitalist recently I believe, IMHO, to be incorrect. With energy regulation prevelent everywhere for many years now, at best we have a mixed-economy. And this is true for just about everything.This mixed-economy is the major source of the problem. The "capitalists" in a mixed-economy have the backing of the force of the government, therefore competition is limited. The average Joe loses.All this talk of deregulation is just talk to confuse the non-thinking American, of course, present company excluded. Mr Gresham (04/17/01; 09:52:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 52039) IHOP to help promote gold coins http://www2.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/newsArticles.asp?guid=%7B042EEA37%2D9A7C%2D4EBD%2DA26B%2DE1B17A02DF8D%7D& Sort of in the "Give them enough rope, and they'll hang themselves" category. (Is there a Darwin Awards for currency management officials? There oughta be.)No, this article is not greatly significant on its own, but I'm sure you can see the irony of the loop they've gotten themselves into.70 years of inflation and the penny-nickel-dime-quarter are not even worth using to teach your child about money-saving in the piggy bank.So the paper one-dollar bills wear out in 18 months, and need replacement by a system of coins. (A logical step, given the premise.) The seignorage profit will be boosted."The report found that the new dollar is making money. In fiscal year 2000, the Golden dollar made a profit of $800 million, part of the $2.3 billion profit that the Mint returned to the U.S. Treasury last year."So how do you increase the visibility and credibility of the new dollar? You use the old symbolic word "golden" that the other government agency has been trying to downplay for 20 years, right? "Right hand knows not..."May they uncork the genie, right there in the basements of the US Mint... Galearis (04/17/01; 09:28:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 52038) @ ALL: somewhat larger news of the day..... http://www.timesofindia.com/today/17busi3.htm Hello again,This would seem to indicate a collapse in the paper gold market in India, yes?I haven't seen what paper gold is doing on COMEX today yet. I wonder if........G.snippet: RBI tightens banks' bullion trade norms MUMBAI: The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) has tightened bullion trading norms for commercial banks after some of them faced potential losses from their exposure to a cooperative bank that specialises in gold trade. "In the context of trading in bullion, they (banks authorised to import bullion) are advised to release gold only against full realisation of value or proceeds of instrument," a directive released on its website www.rbi.org.in. on the weekend said. The instructions come after Classic Cooperative Bank, based in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad, issued payment orders on behalf of a bullion trader to four commercial banks --state-run State Bank of India (SBI), Bank of India and Punjab National Bank, and Standard Chartered Bank. The payment orders to all four banks have bounced and the central bank has pegged the commercial banks' exposure in these deals at Rs 69.60 crore ($14.84 million). The RBI has suspended the board of Classic Cooperative Bank and placed it under an administrator. SBI, the biggest gold-import supplier, has said it was facing a potential loss of Rs 39.57 crore after it sold bullion to the trader whose cheques drawn on Classic Cooperative Bank bounced. Bank of India, one of the leading import-suppliers of gold in Ahmedabad, the largest gold trading centre in India, has already suspended bullion trading. The bank's decision was prompted by a Rs 5 crore loss it suffered after Classic Cooperative Bank failed to honour pay orders issued by it on behalf of a bullion trader. The central bank has also advised banks to collect 100 per cent margin in cash for the provisional value of gold sold and a suitable margin to take care of likely price fluctuations. "Banks are further advised that, where gold is sold on unfixed basis, they should follow the uniform practice of settling the trade within five days," the central bank directive said. (Reuters) Previous Henri (04/17/01; 09:19:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 52037) Why is this not headline news? http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/04/17/mideast.violence.03/index.html?s=2 Israel has re-occupied sections of the Gaza strip (was Palestinian Authority controlled) last night and this morning. Things seem to be heating up over there. Henri (04/17/01; 09:08:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 52036) Black Blade Tricky business Msg 52010 If the state (and I use the term loosely)of California were to seize a couple of generators (Power plants) it may not just go that easily. If there are two main generators in California and each has two classes of power generation...fossil and fissile, the only plants that would be feasible to seize would be the fossil plants. These happen to need fuel supplied regularly. The other class is not feasible for seizure. A nuclear power plant is very complex and only operable by those trained specifically in its system interactions and design/operational peculiarities.Since these are not insignificant contributors to the states energy supply, seizure of fossils will result in retaliatory shutdown of the nukes. Duh. If they seize the nukes who will run them? The Navy? Maybe, but then they don't work for the state of California. Wouldn't there be a similar retaliatory shutdown of the fossils? Seize all? Again, who would run them? Seizure will shutdown the grid. Sounds like a democratic solution to a problem caused by democrats. Some people I have listened to think that energy is far too important to trust to capitalists in an open market. They feel power should be placed in the hands of the govt. or, it should be regulated as it has been to a certain profit margin.Myself, I don't know the answer. I'm quite certain though that state seizure of assets is wrong thinking. Why it almost seems un-American. Galearis (04/17/01; 09:05:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 52035) @Netking and auspec $30,000 Au and $1500 Ag Just a short comment on this: from my perspective the $30,000 gold would well signify currency collapse of the USD. In this environment (in which restaurant coffee would cost $100 per cup - and probably wouldn't be bottomless)(smile) I do not see myself selling any gold for a deflating fiat return. At this point (if not well before the dollar plunges this far) I think most holders of physical will be involved in some form of barter (underground?) economy.One of the reasons I purchase sterling scrap, junk silver - even in the iddy-bitty sizes is for the possibility that many of us small-timers will be doing this exchange process. I also have a couple of small weigh scales (not electronic because of possible potential problems of finding batteries) that one can carry with them for negotiating and paying for purchases.I sincerely hope for all of us that our market-driven/paper economy does not fail to this extent - a la Trail Guide/ANOTHER scenario (WELCOME BACK!)- for this would surely be one of the worst of possible worlds to live in for a satisfying quality of life. The question for me is NOT how high the price of gold in USD (or any other currency) the gold (and silver) bull will generate, but at what price will I STOP selling this metal? Will $10,000 per ounce be the warning? $15,000? At what level do these prices signify a red flag of danger and collapse against just another paper profit?I have not read all these fine mornings postings yet. (Accolades to sir Black Blade.)I wait to see if another (the other ANOTHER)(smile) has seen the tid-bit out of India. Stay tuned for the possible larger news of the day...Best, as always,G. Econoclast (04/17/01; 08:30:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 52034) Wow...I'm Honored! Thank you so much for the recognition, maybe it will encourage me to come out of my "lurking shell" a little more.Like justamerebear, "Systemic Risk" is a great term that I could've used in my post. I was just trying to be a little "artsy" with the paragraph and conjure up a dark, more "human" form of the same concept--the pale rider himself, Death. Death of the dollar, and death of the financial system itself due to systemic risk encompassing all the other four horsemen, along with the dollar debt and derivatives build-up.Again, thanks for the recognition!Black Blade (or anyone):Do you have any actual quotes by Alan Greenspan saying that energy doesn't matter to the economy anymore? I would like to use such quotes this summer to show the idiocy of some of the people that "run" the economy.Thanks also for all the other great contest entries, this really came as a surprise with such a large volume of great postings. R Powell (04/17/01; 08:22:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 52033) Down day so far Just checked the 24 hour quotes. Paper up, tangibles down. We'll need a big turnaround to get a hat trick today. Saw on the site's news releases that Canada lowered interest rates a little. Rich justamereBear (04/17/01; 08:03:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 52032) (No Subject) Black Blade ...Working Kirk Black BladeNo, I Never seriously thought you might be Chinese. (or even of Chinese heritage) Just love the way you phrase/state the obvious. :>))Working KirkThere have been a few corners worked on precious metals. One of the better was by Jay Gould, in the late 1800's. Jay was one of the robber barons, and also known as the skunk of Wall street. At a time when ground beef roast (extra, extra lean hamburger) was .04 per pound, and gold was in the $8-12 region, and the US dollar was gold backed, he quietly accumulated enough contracts for future delivery of gold that he had a claim on every free ounce of gold (other than what was held by the US government) in the US. Then he leaked the news. Gold prices, in greenbacks, ran to as high as over $200 per ounce. Of course he was unloading. Quietly. During the last hours, before the US government broke his corner, by releasing huge quantities of gold onto the market, he was making over $100,000 PER MINUTE. This gave rise to impeachment investigations, because of the hand delivered, "Dear Sis" letter, advising the presidents sister to "disengage herself from the market". My how things have changed. Now we pick up the phone. No incriminating written evidence lying around. However, if you are stupid enough to tape record everything that transpires, (a la Nixon), well take your lumps.Also notice how effective the paper gold is, and has been, at effecting/manipulating the physical market.Something else you said lead to my recalling the following. I believe that John M. Keynes it was, wrote that; the fastest way to destroy a society, was to debauch its money.j'Bear Topaz (04/17/01; 05:30:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 52031) SPOT!....What the...? eom Black Blade (04/17/01; 05:13:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 52030) Russian metals stocks seen to be running out http://www.bday.co.za/bday/content/direct/1,3523,831596-6094-0,00.html Snippit:Standard Equities analyst Justin Pearson-Taylor concedes that actual volumes of Russian PGM stockpiles are a closely guarded state secret. But his research estimates the platinum stockpile to be just less than 1-million ounces and palladium around 12-million ounces.Black Blade: We here at USAGOLD already knew this. Actually I think that these estimates are grossly over optimistic. Black Blade (04/17/01; 05:06:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 52029) Mining industry is nation's biggest polluter http://www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2001/04/04142001/krt_mining_43056.asp Snippit:The mining industry was the nation's top polluter in 1999, contributing slightly over half the 7.77 billion pounds of toxic chemicals released to the environment, says a new government report.Black Blade: This is absolutely bogus of course. Last year the EPA was prodded by environmental groups and Clinton Drones to adopt "Toxic Release Inventory" standards that count all the supposed nasties (natural elements) contained in waste rock to recorded as "released in the environment." In other words it was not toxic when it was in one place but because it was moved to another is "magically" becomes toxic. If the same standards were to be applied to the construction industry then they would be the largest polluter due to the amount of soil (broken down rock) moved. Before last year the mining industry was well down the list. Lying comes easy to these people. Canuck (04/17/01; 04:51:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 52028) Natural Gas Distribution of natural gas was deregulated in or about 1985 in Canada. In 1998 I signed a 5-year contract with a firm to deliver gas to my home for 10.1 cents per cubic metre. The same firm asked me to renew the contract in June of 2000 at 21.5 cents/m3 (again for 5 yrs.).The 'gas man' knocked on the door last night; a new 5 yr. contract is selling at 32 cents. Topaz (04/17/01; 04:29:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 52027) BB Yep Mate - saw it on the Telle.Those bloke's on the riverbank had that "I've died 'n gone to Heaven" look on their faces. Still pretty warm here too which made it even better. Topaz (04/17/01; 04:25:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 52026) Mr G. Parsifal Mr G, Whatsmore the Comex rundown is a telling factor for that very reason.Let's imagine a "good" bar is a can of Coca-Cola and your Comex "bad" bar is a generic Cola.If all else is equal (price) the Coke will disappear completely before the Cola get's touched because for Cola to qualify as "Coke" it has to be refined-canned and handled back to the shelf ie: not worth the effort IF Coke is readily available.(doesn't read too well but you'll get the drift) Black Blade (04/17/01; 04:11:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 52025) @Topaz and Zenidea I saw a news report that a beer truck went off a bridge and plunged into the water near Sydney. There was no lack of volunteers to dive in and retrieve the beer. It is technically theft, however, the police decided not to arrest anyone. A smart man knows not to get between an Aussie and his beer. It is like getting between a female Grizzley and her cubs ;-)Cheers!- Black Blade Topaz (04/17/01; 04:04:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 52024) Mr Gresham Hi Mr G, (re: Another's comment)As no-one else has mentioned it and as I feel it relevant, FYI a "good delivery bar" (ie: as Globally recognized for trade under the auspices of LBMA) is 400 troy oz + or - of min995 Au. NB:- a serious door-stop.The Comex contract revolves around 100 oz (paper/physical) and don't qualify as such.They do make excellent gambling chips though! Black Blade (04/17/01; 03:59:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 52023) The Lighter Side of Hedge fund Investing? Hedge fund manager Mark Yagalla of Ashbury Capital Partners is under arrest for fraud for unwisely investing his clients money. It seems that he fell head over heels for Playboy Playmate Sandy Bentley who along with twin sister Mandy are Hugh Hefner's favorite latest eye candy. Mr. Yagalla gave his female friend several expensive gifts including a $1.6 million home bought and paid for with his clients funds. Needless to say, his clients were not amused. He allegedly sent his clients fake profit statements. The SEC is not amused either and they hope to recover the gifts to repay investors. Hedge funds have fewer disclosure and investment rules than mutual funds for example. This is sure to spark interest over regulating the hedge fund industry. - Black Blade working-kirk (04/17/01; 03:53:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 52022) Why no one tried to corner silver or gold You're right. The thing is I've haven't been devious enough and from the little we seen of the powers that move gold and silver, deviousness is a must-have However, It raises more questions than answer. I remember reading the piece and many thought the Euro would be the replacement for the dollar once it got destoryed. However, I didn't agreed and wrote my opinion a few weeks back in an essay called: Trusting the Euro. This is the problem I see. Once the dollar is destroyed as the reserve currency, it will utterly destroy all paper money. It is like the trust of a friendship that gets utterly destroyed or the way a religious believer becomes an atheist. Once that faith, that trust is gone. It is never coming back. If you met other people and you same the samequalitities that destroyed the friendship. You would make friends with that person. Just like someone who becomes a true atheist, rejects all religions from then on.The dollar gets destroyed. So how is the Euro any different than the paper money that was the dollar?So you mentioned one goal of the BIS was to get rid of the Russia threat to peace. Is this part of the goal for peace as well? With gold back currency, war is less likely because no nation will be able to hide the cost of war with inflation. Another thing I see with destorying the dollar. The current powers that be that gain their power and advantage by being the reserve currency will not give that up without a fight, a fight that that high a level of loss means World War III.Will humanity survive such a fight?You can say the depression led straight to World War IIThe powers-that-be don't always survive these situation.Just ask Louis the XIV, Nicholas II, or even the British Empire before and after World War II. The fact we are even mentioning the BIS here means they haven't covered their tracks as much as they should have. Even those currently in power lose the dollr, I know they are vindictive enough to take anyone even rumored to have anything killing the dollar. You and I may not know who runs the BIS but those at the top that pull the strings sure do. And I predict this. When things are going good, the top-powers that be, media, businessmen, and politicians will cover and protect each other. But if things go from worse to ??? it will be everybody for themselves. Think of the feuding families that go on Jerry Springer. There is not even the slightestsemble of trying to look respectable in the public eye.And these powers that be, once they start fighting among themselves which turn out much worse than any Springer show.(Maybe some of you more imaginative one can think of a reasonable title when they do go on Springer)Someone summed up the situation to come. (I wish I could remember)When the explosion comes thos3e that thought they could control the situation will find out just how little control they have. There is no way to be safe or control somethinglike a cheylobyl explosion. The engineers die of radiation poisoning like the rest of the population. The only thing you can do is hope you are far far far away and that depends more on luck. I suspect everyone will get hurt. Only those with gold in hand might be lucky.> This is about "The Sting". This is about the sting that > will smash the Great Bull Market. This is about the sting> that will derail the gravy train. The sting is already in > place and its trigger has already been pulled. The sting> merely has to unfold. The public suspects nothing. > The third thing I learned was that the BIS had two > ironclad objectives. Both were so bold that they would > take your breath away: >1 ) To destroy the Soviet Union, as a threat to world > peace. > 2 ) To destroy the dollar as the worlds reserve currency. Black Blade (04/17/01; 03:41:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 52021) PGM's Rocket Higher Again PGM prices are continuing higher tonight with Pt up +$12.00, and Pd up +$33.00. PGM prices have continued steadily higher over the last few sessions. Recent reports indicate that there will be no PGM exports from Russia this year. Gee - what a surprise. Norilsk Nickel may drop a few ounces from current production and that's about it. Lease rates for Pt are up sharply as well. Gold is down a buck tonight though. London is making up lost ground for yesterday. - Black Blade SteveH (04/17/01; 02:17:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 52020) Working-kick www.kitco.com This may answer your question. I found this on kitco. I believe this is the same note that passed around here a year or so ago that was a letter from a Dad to his son. It has taken on legs of its own now. This, of course, has the fingerprint of you know who. Just a repost:Date: Tue Apr 17 2001 03:14sharefin (From the far side) ID#284255:Copyright © 2000 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reservedThe Sting After giving you more pleasant news above, I thought it time to give you a real scare. The following article came to me via e-mail from JPM. While it may be true, for your own sanity you might want to consider it pure fiction, a "what if" sort of article. Because, if it's true, we are in deep do-do. Hi, Well, this is an oversimplification, but read it carefully, and think about it. Even if there is no conspiracy in truth, just the financial facts are worth noting. Sometime this mess has to be 'unwound'. There is no way to do that w/out a mess. You decide what will happen... JPM This is about "The Sting". This is about the sting that will smash the Great Bull Market. This is about the sting that will derail the gravy train. The sting is already in place and its trigger has already been pulled. The sting merely has to unfold. The public suspects nothing. A sting is a confidence game in which the victim is deliberately set up to believe that he cannot lose, that he has a bird's nest on the ground. Then at the last moment the trap is sprung, and his dreams of riches turn to rags. This sting was made in Japan, with a strong assist from Switzerland. To get a better idea of the Swiss Connection, we have to look at the Bank for International Settlements ( BIS ) in Basel. The BIS is the Central Bank's central bank. It was formed in 1930 to handle the collection of German war debt following World War I. Its members are the central banks of the industrial world, such as the Bank of England, the German Bundesbank, the Federal Reserve Bank, the Bank of Japan, and so on. It is almost certainly the most powerful financial institution in the world. Never once in its long history has it ever had to ask for help from any government. A definite coolness exists between the BIS and the United States. This goes back to the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944, held to set up the machinery for resuming world business after World War II. Even though this conference established the gold-backed U.S. dollar as the only reserve currency, the U.S. did everything it could to torpedo the BIS and give sole power to the American sponsored International Monetary Fund. The war was not over in 1944, but the combatants still got together and defeated this U.S. grab. In the final showdown, the Europeans and Japan never completely trusted the U.S. As the years went by, the BIS suspicions were justified. The U.S. began to abuse its reserve currency role by simply printing dollars. American companies began to buy control of businesses all over the world. In 1971, President Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, and introduced the novel idea of floating currencies. Meanwhile, the U.S. national debt began to increase each year, until it now stands at about $5.5 Trillion, an astronomic amount that can never, ever be repaid. It was clear that the U.S. was out of control. Along about 1972, I began to spend a great deal of time and effort in studying the BIS and its agenda. The first thing I found was that although the U.S. had turned its back on gold, the BIS were aggressively buying it. By 1990, the BIS were by far the largest holder of gold, with more than one billion ounces. This amounts to an outright corner on gold. The next thing I learned is that the BIS are extremely closemouthed. It keeps a low profile. Its favorite M/O is the sneak attack. They have their own word for this "coup". Their ideal coup is one where the victim is taken by surprise, and does not even know what hit him. The BIS tries to leave no fingerprints. Thus their coups often become perfect crimes. The third thing I learned was that the BIS had two ironclad objectives. Both were so bold that they would take your breath away: 1 ) To destroy the Soviet Union, as a threat to world peace. 2 ) To destroy the dollar as the worlds reserve currency. We all know that the Soviet Union collapsed in 1989. This was done by the BIS without firing a shot. They simply loaned large sums of money to the Soviets, and then called the loans. Just a routine castration! A simple foreclosure. This is how they got the Russian gold. The second goal, of bringing down the dollar as a reserve currency, has not yet been reached, but I believe it soon will be.This brings us to the present sting operation. If you are going to derail the dollar and the Great Bull Market, you better bring a pretty big checkbook. The new money coming into the mutual funds is running about $20 billion a month. Unless you can top that kind of buying pressure, you don't have a chance. How in the world do you shoot down an animal that big and that powerful? In my opinion, the BIS and its Japanese partners have come up with an ingenious answer. It is big enough to work. It goes like this: The sting began in August 1995, when a rash of bad loans and insider scandals brought the Japanese banks to their knees. The BIS became alarmed, and advised the Japanese to lower their loan rates to ?%. This created an enormous gap between the low Japanese rate and the 6-?% U.S. rate. Into this gap poured speculators from Japan and everywhere else. The speculators would borrow yen in huge amounts. They would then sell the yen, and put the proceeds into U.S. paper, thus making an enormous, guaranteed return. this came to be known as the "Yen Carry Trade". This yen carry trade has been going on for over two years, in virtually unlimited volume. It created a huge demand for U.S. bonds, which in turn sustained a huge and unprecedented bull market in stocks. [Ed. Sounds like they are loaning US huge sums of money like they did Russia, Hmmm] In a similar fashion, the Japanese and others found that they could do the same thing with gold and this came to be known as the "Gold Carry Trade". The speculators could borrow gold at about 1%, sell the gold, and then invest the proceeds in U.S. paper, with a huge guaranteed return. How delightful! How delicious! But how lethal! I say lethal because this yen carry, gold carry Ponzi scheme has created a "potential short squeeze of colossal magnitude". ( Michael Belkin, "Strategic Investments", May 14, 1997 ) Sooner or later, these fantastic leveraged schemes must be unwound. The gold and the yen which were borrowed and sold short will have to be bought back; and the bonds that were bought with borrowed money will have to be sold. The totals involved are probably well over a trillion dollars, or far beyond the mutual funds yearly take. Anything could trigger the debacle. As long as gold keeps going down or the yen keeps going down, no problem. As long as bonds keep going up, no problem. But once gold starts to rise, or the yen starts to rise; or once bonds start to fall, these huge positions would be unwound. There would be a run for the exits, and the panic would feed on itself. Margin calls would ruin the leveraged speculator in short order. There would be no way to stop the carnage. All it will take is a coup to start the waterfall. We had the coup on June 24, 1997, though it was only vaguely understood at that time. The Japanese Prime Minister, Ryutaro Hashimoto, told a luncheon meeting at Columbia University, "I hope the U.S. will engage in efforts and in cooperation maintain exchange stability so we will not succumb to the temptation to sell off Treasury bills and switch our funds to gold".In a matter of minutes, the NYSE collapsed, and the Dow-Jones closed down 192 points in a mini-panic. The victim's saw the trap for the first time! Then the media and Wall Street fell all over each other trying to control the damage, saying Hashimoto was misquoted, etc., etc. The various exchanges staged a desperate anti-gold raid, and soon had gold down to 12-year lows. The Street breathed a sigh of relief and returned to its summertime siesta. But the damage was done. Now look at the mess that confronts the big-time gamblers. We now have gold at new lows and the bonds at new highs. Surely, this is a speculator's dream come true well, isn't it? No, this is The Sting. The yen carry and the gold carry is still in place, and they still have to be unwound. The temptation Hashimoto mentioned now becomes unbearable. The Japanese cannot resist the chance to sell the bonds near their highs, or the chance to buy gold near its low.Do you imagine that the bonds will stay high or that gold will stay low? No way! The unwinding begins to feed on itself, and the 5000 mutual funds and all their friends will be unable to do a single thing about it.That's what you mean by The Sting. I have no idea whether Mr. Hashimoto was acting on his own, or whether his words were part of a larger plan. I know one thing, though. This guy is no innocent babe in the woods. Before he became the Prime Minister, he was Japan's Finance Minister. He knew the ropes. He knew the big wheels at BIS. He knew all about yen carry and gold carry. He was telling his people that the game was over. Remember that these are the friendly little folks who gave us Pearl Harbor and the kamikaze! For just a fleeting second there, when Hashimoto spoke, the thought flashed across my mind that the Japs had just won World War II. Another thought the Japs could acquire gold in a different way. They could sell our bonds and buy the EMU, the new European currency that the BIS are sponsoring to replace the dollar. The EMU is expected to be a package combination of gold and paper. So there you have the anatomy of the greatest sting in history. It is real. It is in place. It cannot be stopped. It can only feed on itself and get more and more desperate as the shorts are squeezed to death. And best of all for the BIS, the fingerprints on it are not Swiss they are Japanese. Call this the "Karate Chop". Netking (04/17/01; 02:09:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 52019) Auspec. . . auspec 51992. They are grand thoughts of Gold at 30K as the USD s l i d e s into oblivion. I personaly belive 'Da Boys' from the 'Club Of Rome' will have our wonderful electronic credits in place long before then old chap. . .then again. . .Mmmm . . .Gold at $30,000 my Silver holdings(20:1)rising $1,500/Oz, suppose I could live with that! working-kirk (04/17/01; 02:07:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 52018) Why no one tried to corner silver or gold Why does no entity (individual, corporation, whatever) buy the 109,628 ounces of gold and cause this majoraffect? The only reasonable answer is one I've heard from Ted ButlerNo one has tried to silver or gold even through the money could be found isThose who have the capabiltiy of doing so, found out what the combine effort of The U.S. Government and Comdex did to the Hunts Brother and decided they don't want to bring that type of grief in their life.First dealing with Comdex, Everyone heard how the Hunts Brother went bantrupted but I bet you haven't heard the reaspn they went bankrupt was they were not allowed to take delivery. Comdex changed the rules even then. And after being bankrupted, the government got into the act. They were audited by the IRS. I don't think they had any tax liabiablity because if they did, I am sure they would have been thrown in deal. If you hear the name "Hunt's brothers" I am sure the feeling you get is super-greedy criminals. If a reason could be found you can bet they would have been tossed in jail.There are some who ask, there are countries with strong history of buying gold. India, China, Turkey, Greece, Monaco, France, and others too numberous to name. While they are poor countries they are plenty of rich individuals and groups they could afford up to a hundred million that might be able to try to corner the market. However the U.S. has a very good interest in seeing the price stay down and if a group of foreign investors tried that, they would see that as economical warfare and in response they will launchreal warfare against that country. I have also heard China has consider just one day buying and buying and buying until the gold goons are overwhelm but the amount of money the chinese can throw at the market without even blinking. The reason they haven't done it is China is patient. I have no doubt real war will come between us and China. And when it does, destorying the gold market and Comdex will be just one of the ecomonical weapons they will use. I think the United States is itching for a fight with China. The United States are itching for the same reason many counties start a war. It diverts attention for the many internal problems. And if you read the Fifth horseman's contest, there plenty of internal problems in this country. I think however, when the fight come the United States will have some nasty surprises. Any country that is willing to kill million of it own citizens is willing to kill million of ours. Understand, I have no admiration China. I also have no admiration for the United States. I see a war between the two countries as something that everybody loses and the best thing each country could do is not have any dealings eitherbusiness or otherwise. But this country is spoiling for a fight. Why else would the government insist: We want to plane too after getting back the crewI think China let the crew go because when war comes they want to fight on their terms now ours. But if forced, there will be a point where they won't retreat. Anyway, hope that answer some of your question. Do a search on Ted bulter and read some of his writings. Rockgrabber (04/17/01; 02:03:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 52017) (No Subject) The Cabal have their men in place. Arafat and Sharon. Everything is working perfect. Rockgrabber (04/17/01; 02:00:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 52016) Israel, Palistinian sittuation getting pretty sad tonight. http://www.worldnetdaily.com You can almost not afford not to hold OIL calls at times like these. Belgian (04/17/01; 01:57:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 52015) The Big Picture.... Yes Aus(in)spec(tor), will it be in moderate extremes (:-)that the past will unfold into the future ?Let us all look at it, this way : what we globally achieved in a minimum of time is rightout "tremendous" in quite a lot of aspects. The tremendous *speed* at wich different parts of this globe are still developping is amazing. But, do we realize at what cost, all this, has been achieved so far ?Answer : the cost is the "HIDDEN DEPRECIATION" of all currencies who did and didn't participate in this flash-expansion. An artificially created (clooned) environment. The reason why we are unwillingly, focused on the dollar is because of his "DOMINANCE" ! Appreciation or Depreciation can only be measured against a reference standard. And everybody is taking this US$-standard as for granted. Time will tell if this was the big mistake.More difficult to comprehend is the depreciation of all currencies, against to what they represent in tangibles. If a produced good or a service is constantly deviating from the agreed amount of corresponding paper-volume...things must get out of hand. More and more paper for the same old thing.When the artificial development speed increases, so does that deviation between paper and tangible. Make the excercise with the complete cycle (cane to cup of coffee) of an ordinarry commodity like sugar. Compare the different cycles through the history of that same sugar. Compare the increasing amount of paper involved with the "constant" sugar through history. The conclusion is a staggering rising mountain of paper involved in that same tangible "sugar". For the ones who have an oil-well in their garden, simply have to replace sugar with oil.(bad joke)Simply : The global paper-mountain, grows much bigger than the global mountain of goods and services. This is a very easy to understand, picture. Another reason why we focus on the dollar is that it is very easy to proof that these 2 mountains in the garden of an average US familly is much more visible. Papermountain (big) = all different debts + paper assets >>> overschadows the corresponding (little) mountain of goods+products.The past growing difference between these two mountains was up until now justified by an accompagning Growth. But the Quality (artificial or genuine) of this growth is exactly what is casting fundamental doubts on the future. It is not a specific US problem, it is a global problem !With this simplified, pseudo economics...I tried to answer your question by putting the dollar-collapse into a more global perspective. That's why I mentionned not to over-state the importance of the Euro (or other) in the longer run.And now about *Gold* into all this : Please, note that I am shouting !GOLD HAS BEEN AND STILL IS *RIDICULISED* BY PRODUCERS AND OFFICIAL HOLDERS !!! I suggest that private Gold-Investors don't take this anymore and express firmly their indignation !Indignation to the ones from who we are buying the Gold (producers) and to the ones who are selling (mis-managing) the public accumulated gold (CBs)!Gold is blatantly Undervalued for a *SUSPICIOUS* duration of time. Private gold-investors and holders cannot be put responsible for this exuberant irrationality. Thanks Allen.It is not a matter of irresponsability but rather sheer idiocy.All Private Individuals, modest Gold-investors, are personally ridiculised by the ones who have to gain the mostwith a normal valuation of Gold. Gold-producers and Official-Public Gold-reserve holders !I don't know the exact value of Gold, today or in the future. I just don't want to sell a nanogram of it at today's price. I'll still have my gold by the time it will be overvalued. I hope the ridiculisers of today can say the same thing later ? Black Blade (04/17/01; 01:47:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 52014) US Market Futures Lower http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm Market indices are lower on a spate of earnings warnings. Those who jumped into the market last week look to get "whip-sawed" badly. Amazingly, some talking heads say that now the bad news is out, so jump into the markets with both feet. Some of these idiots are the same ones who used to admonish everyone against trying to catch "falling knives." Hmmm... notice how the DOW jumped into positive territory rising over 100 points within 10 minutes of the close? A bit suspicious I think. - Black Blade Black Blade (04/17/01; 01:34:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 52013) Asia Drowning in a Blood Red Sea Tonight http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u The Nikkei and Hang Seng indices are down tonight. Tonight Cisco gave its first earnings warning and missed analysts estimates. This week we should get a good look at missed numbers as "earnings season/confession season" picks up steam. Tomorrow's NY open could get rather "interesting."JBear: No I'm not Chinese, just a dumb western boy who looks at the world around him and realizes that what he's told just don't add up. I do study Chinese history. Currently I'm in the middle of reading "The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China" translated by Ralph D. Sawyer and Mei-Chun Sawyer, which includes "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, it is "interesting" (in the western sense). ;-) Cheers! - Black Blade Parsifal (04/17/01; 01:08:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 52012) COMEX gold warehouse stocks-April 16 http://www.futuresource.com/search.asp?source=story¶m='id=i4142338275892658177'&filename=story From the link above:***COMEX gold and silver warehouse stocks-April 16Apr. 16-MAR--Data are in troy ounces as of the close of business today. Net Ttl Received Withdrawn Change Adjustment TtlScotiamocattaReg 455,047 0 0 0 0 455,047Elig 103,160 0 97 -97 0 103,063Ttl 558,207 0 97 -97 0 558,110HSBC Bank USAReg 451,924 0 0 0 0 451,924Elig 6,565 0 0 0 0 6,565Ttl 458,489 0 0 0 0 458,489Combined TtlsReg 906,971 0 0 0 0 906,971Elig 109,725 0 97 97 0 109,628Ttl 1,016,696 0 97 -97 0 1,016,599***Anyone, help me out here. I am interpreting this data as stating that COMEX has available only 109,628 ounces of physical gold, and that all COMEX physical gold ounces in the registered category have owners, meaning that registered COMEX gold is being held in storage for its owners and is not available for delivery to anyone other than its registered owners. OK, let's see. 109,725 X $265 per-ounce = ~29 million dollars. Now then, I think we are talking about physical gold here, correct? I expect that if all eliglble physical gold at COMEX were to become registerd (or purchased and delivered, removed from COMEX warehouses), that would have a major impact on the gold market (both the physical and the paper markets), no? If I am correct up to this point, then it follows that for ~29 million dollars, some entity (corporation, individual, whatever) could cause a major impact on the gold market (both physical and paper markets). In the grand scheme of international finaces, ~29 million dollars is not much, no?Why does no entity (individual, corporation, whatever) buy the 109,628 ounces of gold and cause this major affect? Parsifal justamereBear (04/17/01; 01:01:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 52011) auspec 51992 Black Blade Black BladeYou wouldn't happen to be Chinese would you? All that use of the word "interesting". :>)) Love it. BTW, thanks for all the work you do, and which I follow faithfully. See you have your very own groupy, not as sexy as some, but a groupy.Auspec 51992I also doubt that the POG will ever go to $30,000. However, IMHO both the dollar and the Euro will go to zero. That would mean parity. So I guess in a way the POG will then be at least $30,000. Long before $30,000 the "gummint" will move to set a price (in my estimate, about $850-900), and confiscate. They may or may not pay that price in worthless fiat to holders. Cynic that I am.j'bear Black Blade (04/17/01; 00:29:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 52010) Tough talk on energy: Many Democratic lawmakers push to seize generators. http://www.capitolalert.com/news/capalert01_20010416.html Snippit:"Step One is to seize a few power plants," said Senate President Pro Tem John Burton, D-San Francisco. "That would let (the generators) know we mean business." "There's no negotiation when generators say, 'Pay us what we want, or we'll shut off California's lights,' " said Phil Angelides, state treasurer. "We ought to levy an excess profit tax, and if they don't take their foot off our throat, seize a plant or two to sober them up."Jan Smutny-Jones of the Independent Energy Producers Association said state officials need to stop their "constant haranguing of generators." "Seizing private property didn't work in Cuba, and I don't think it would work in California," he said.Black Blade: Yeah right, - seize power plants - that'll solve the energy crisis. These people can't even run the state of California, how can they run a business. Energy costs are here to stay and the higher costs will be reflected in higher utility rates, higher priced consumer goods and services. It looks as if inflation is about to bump higher. BTW, the hottest mutual funds such as ProFunds Ultrshort OTC (+149%), ProFunds Ultrabear (+50%), etc. are doing quite well. A common theme of these and other funds is that they short the markets and most hold PM stocks. Again, gold is a nice balance for portfolio insurance especially for crashing markets. There is increasing talk among investment advisors about gold as a wealth preservation vehicle. Quite a change from when the equities markets were flying high. Fortunately gold is still quite cheap and better to buy cheap insurance. Hey - Pt and Au are in positive territory tonight adding to yesterday's gains. Black Blade (04/17/01; 00:09:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 52009) Utilities send out warning: Pay up http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2001-04-16-utilities.htm Snippit:Some consumers are getting a nasty surprise when they open their electricity and gas bills this month: disconnection notices. The so-called winter grace period — when most utilities are required by law to leave the power on regardless of how much customers owe — is over.Black Blade: This article adds more meat to the growing utility crisis. The era of "Cheap Energy" is over. Look for higher inflation in spite of contrived and filtered CPI data. Higher energy alone will crash the market and investment portfolios will get massacred further. This is where gold and silver as portfolio insurance comes in. I have heard a lot of moaning by some "intelligent" investors who have lost as much as 75% of their tech heavy portfolios. The carnage is far from over.BTW, It appears that Moody's may reclassify Kalifornia's bonds to "Junk Status" due to the energy crisis and the state budget being drained of funds. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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