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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/17/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Chris Powell (5/17/2000; 23:54:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 30756)
Clinton administration moves against GATA
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/460?
Clinton administration moves against GATA:

http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/460?


To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email
and get them immediately so you don't have
to go look for them, send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com


MarkeTalk (5/17/2000; 22:28:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30755)
Turning points?
Interesting that the stock market would rise sharply after Fed Chairman raises interests rates by one-half percent. Maybe it has something to do with market cycles and timing which, upon further observation, underpins the market. Take, for example, tomorrow and Friday. Tomorrow is the full moon which, according to Steve Puetz's "eclipse theory," tends to mark turning points in various markets--most notably the stock market. Judging from this week's action, I would say that it will be a top just before or even coinciding with Friday's stock options expiration. Further observation and study of history shows that the stock market changes direction markedly about 75-80% of the time in the week following the expiration of options. Putting all of this together, my best guess is that stocks are headed down after tomorrow or Friday. Monday the 22nd should be very interesting! And if eclipse theory is valid, then the selloff should continue until the new moon on June 2. As far as gold goes, long-term cycles are bottoming in this time frame. The next gold auction of 25 tons to be held by the Bank of England occurs on May 23. Don't be shocked to see a surprise rally in the metals take place as these events unfold.

Finally, the anemic CPI number (unchanged from previous month) which was released yesterday took into account the recent decline in oil prices. However, now oil has rebounded to near its old highs of $30 per barrel. What are the spinmeisters going to do next month? Already there is talk about urging (forcing?) OPEC into another increase in production. (Iran is going to love this one.) The government must be getting really desperate. And don't forget the unfolding drought in the Midwest. Soaring corn, wheat, and soybean prices will tack on more percentage points to the PPI and CPI Indexes. This story was all over the national news today. Even Al Gore is calling for some committee to help against future droughts. What's he going to do? Hire shamans and medicine men to pray for rain? Keep tuned for further updates.

elevator guy (5/17/2000; 21:40:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30754)
Thank you!
Thank you, Strad. Wishing you well.

and

Thank you, Mr Gresham. Funny link there!



Canuck (5/17/2000; 21:25:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 30753)
Response
@ PH in LA

You said,

"Of course, the operating fiction is that the Federal Reserve (with its chairman appointed at rather long intervals) is supposed to be more or less detached from politics. There is no way the Dems are going to take responsibility for this whole mess, which has been building up gradually for a very long time."
--------------------------------------------------------

So how do the Republicans and Democrats 'detach' themselves of the responsibility when elected/re-elected. I have recently thought that it might be a blessing in disguise to loose the election, particularly from a Republican point of view. Again from my severely novice point of view, I'd hate to be next President of the United States.

Hill Billy Mitchell (5/17/2000; 21:23:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30752)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: May 17 2000

Rates For Tuesday, May 16, 2000

Federal funds 6.13

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.20
10-year 6.43
20-year 6.52
30-year 6.12

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (.01%)




Canuck (5/17/2000; 21:09:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30751)
Response
@ Steve H.

You said,
-----------
"Now, do the Repubs have an inside track into the inner workings of the gold market. I think not. No, they are just now finding out something that is probably washing out the ears of those in high places, as we speak. Thanks to GATA.

I believe once it sinks in they will have to figure out what there is to be done with the greatest financial scandale of all time. Do they expose now; or do they expose later or do they just play dumb? You tell me."
----------------------------------------------
So, a) are you and I more astute than the Republican party or
b) are they arming for the 'assault' going into the last 90/120 days of the campaign?

If the Democrats are 'pulling the stops' to hold onto the electorate then logically (when the time is right) the Republicans will expose the 'truth', yes?

If no, then this manipulation of 'truth', free markets, and
rights is much more than we bargained for, yes?

Imagine a concerted effort of electorate and 'opposition' to hold the nation in tact. This is scary shit. If the latest Gata effort does not expose and bring forward the 'greatest scandal of all time' I fear for all of us.
If it doesn't, I fear more. The next couple of months will be interesting, the clock is ticking, and frankly, the charade really does get worse each and every day. Gather your gold, silver, guns and women (rhetorically
speaking), after that not much matters.









gidsek (5/17/2000; 20:59:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 30750)
Journeyman
Journeyman (05/16/00; 23:00:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30701)
_CENTRAL_ planning @gidsek msg#: 30699, ALL
gidsek msg#: 30699
Journeyman ... "Planning"

"On the first or second page I came across a statement something to the effect that Communist
economies are planned and Capitalist ones are not.
With that I put down the book, knowing that what followed wasn't going to be of much value." -gidsek msg#: 30699

Hard for me to speak of the value of that author's statement -- I think Mises was talking of _central_ planners, a la the Soviet Union, etc. -J.
------------------------------------------------------
-/Let me apologize for my somewhat off-target post. I guess my post was more about the axe I like to grind with Dr. Heilbroner than a properly formed reply to your post. What I wanted to highlight was that the notion of "planning" as we conventionally apply it to the question of economies can be misleading. I do believe Von M meant what you say he does.
-------------------------------------------------------
"I have acquaintances who own a couple of retail stores amd together they "plan" a small portion of
the nations' economy, just over $1,000,000 worth of it." -gidsek msg#: 30699

I think what Mises is saying (if I may be so bold) is that in a centrally planned economy, your friend planning his $1,000,000 part of the economy wouldn't be allowed -- the central planners would dictate instead. -J.
------------------------------------------------
-/Yes, I agree he is saying that.
------------------------------------------------
"In point of fact Capitalist economies are "planned" in the extreme, by anyone who has earned the right to participate and do so." -gidsek msg#: 30699

Indeed. And this is majorly different from "centrally planned." The major difference is that if someone like your friend plans in ways that don't satisfy their customers, they either change their plan or go out of business. This forces adaptation to what people want, rather than forcing people to adapt to what central planners want.
--------------------------------------------------
-/The author/economist whos' work I rejected seemed to be of the view that our (Western) economies consisted of somekind of glorious entrepreneurial chaos, at least that's something I often pickup when some people get all warm-and-fuzzy about free enterprise. I intended to debunk that with my post.
---------------------------------------------------
However, I'm not an advocate of capitalism -- that very name confesses the rules are skewed to favor those who have money over those who don't. I prefer free markets (instead of capitalism) where the rules are truly neutral.

Regards,
Journeyman
-----------------------------------------------------
-/ If you have a mind to Journeyman, I'd be interested to hear you draw a distinction between capitalism and free markets. Seeing you contrast the two as you have done made me realize that I can't define the difference properly.

Thanks for reading.

gidsek







gidsek (5/17/2000; 20:24:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 30749)
Oil
Laura (5/17/2000; 9:03:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 30718)
oil consumption will exceed production 3rd and 4th quaters
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Bloomberg%20Energy&touch=1&T=energy_news_front.ht&s=AORwoDhKDQ3J1ZGUg
``The speed and velocity of this thing is quite frightening.''
----------------------------------------------------------
This won't be a problem as gas stations will soon offer call options, right there under the glass along side the scratchable lottery tickets :)

gidsek

Journeyman (5/17/2000; 20:17:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 30748)
Fire and ice in the same mind - - - during interesting times @Aragorn III msg#: 30709, ALL

"An interesting, but entirely unsettling assortment of posts
have been offered this past day. I ask you, where can one
find peace when harboring such internal storms?" -Aragorn
III msg#: 30709

There are certain periods in history, often known as such in
retrospect only, when peace, both internal and external,
become inappropriate to the circumstances. Many fine
posters here believe such a period here in America is close
at hand, and most of those of us who feel this way feel
cursed. As in, "May you live in interesting times."

In such times, inner peace is the easier one to come by.
Some believe such inner peace comes through truth and
understanding. "Know the truth and the truth shall set you
free."

But there are groups, mainly governments and/or their brown-
nosers, suck-ups, and hangers-on, who don't want us to be
free because they count on us to support them with our
labor, stolen through taxation and money devaluation
(inflation). For obvious reasons, these groups don't want us
to know the truth, and indeed have done a fine job of
keeping us and our children and grandchildren in the dark,
even about the true nature of government.

"*Are we therefore to conclude that ALL government is bad,
or rather that, as uncharacteristic as it seems, we should
throw our support behind our existing governments so as to
ward off the dreaded usurpation*? Better still, "Let liberty
and free enterprise rule the day!" they might say. ..." -
Aragorn III msg#: 30709

Our founding fathers knew the truth about government --- ALL
government --- over two centuries ago:

"Government is not eleoquence, it is not reason; it is
force, and like fire, makes a dangerous servant and a
fearful master." -George Washington

How is it we've forgotten?

"Gather your wits please, and know your own mind on
government: a virtue or a curse? For as surely as many
shall say "Curse", these same will be the first and the
loudest to cite the principle evidence of evil to be held
against such banking enterprises as the Federal Reserve
System or the BIS is that they are NOT strict governmental
entities themselves, but rather "private corporations". -
Aragorn III msg#: 30709

Even in the two cases cited by ORO where governments were
not a curse to start with (U.S.A & Switzerland), inevitably
they evolve into one. Look to today's Washington D.C. if
you need proof. -J.

The problem with such organizations as the Federal Reserve
is that while they indeed function as "private
corporations," they pretend to be branches of government.
At least in the case of the Federal Reserve, it would more
accurately be described as a clandestine fascist
(capitalist) corporation in cahoots with government, and it
couldn't have been brought into existence or continue to
exist without explicit government force and threats of force
choking off it's natural competition. Thus fascist bankers
get the best of both worlds and "the people" get the worst.
Free market banking would give us banking variety on the
same order as the variety we now find in food choices and as
free markets do, also give us control at a very personal
level. -J.

"In like manner we see people who proclaim that our domestic
paper currency has gone bad, that overseas currencies are
"socialistic" and worse, and yet, that the replacement of
them with a theoretical One World Currency would be worst of
all." -Aragorn III msg#: 30709

There IS a "One World Currency." Gold. What the NWO
proposes is a one world megabyte (paper/electronic) currency
installed by "fiat," that is by law rather than choice and
competition. They need this megabyte currency so they can
continue to rip us off by seigniorage and inflation. I
personally favor free-market competing currency. Any IOU
will do, even the one scribbled on the back of that envelope
by uncle Joe - - - as long as no one is forced to accept it
by fiat, by "legal tender" threats of government force. -J.

"These are surely among the loudest to proclaim "Gold must
be allowed to have its day!" and yet they then cite "better
leverage" on gold mining shares and gold
futures/options...and therefore embrace the paper status
quo." -Aragorn III msg#: 30709

Indeed, there are many gamblers here on this site (and
elsewhere), and they have every right to gamble on Uncle
Joe's IOU --- or any other paper or electronic IOUs (gold
futures/options, etc.) they choose. They don't have a
legitimate gripe if they lose, however. Incidentally, I
wish all gamblers the best of luck. -J.

"Such people are keen to say, "Blessed be the simpletons of
the world who are buying milk, for I shall be wiser and buy
a cow!" As with most plans, it looks good on paper until the
moment of truth arrives, revealing your speculative
expectations to be pure bull." -Aragorn III msg#: 30709

Yep! Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future.
And speculation based on such predictions is even more
difficult. -J.

So, as Aristotle says, "Gold; get you some."

Regards,
Journeyman


PH in LA (5/17/2000; 19:32:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 30747)
Politics as usual!!
Canuck:

Good point. Of course, the operating fiction is that the Federal Reserve (with its chairman appointed at rather long intervals) is supposed to be more or less detached from politics. There is no way the Dems are going to take responsibility for this whole mess, which has been building up gradually for a very long time. And if the Republicans even tried to tar and feather Clinton/Gore with all of this, they know full well that lots of the muck, missing its target, would end up on them. And of course, as with all scandals, when they start delving into things, there is no telling what may turn up. (For example, they haven't forgotten about G. Bush Sr.'s lame "out of the loop" excuse on all that CIA/Iran Contra drug smuggling that almost surfaced when Eugene Hassenfuss got shot down in Central America... there also seems to have been a connection to the state of Arkansas where Clinton was governor at the time...) In any case, with infinite layers of "plausible deniability" built up over the years, the responsible parties are mostly going to wind up pointing the finger elsewhere. So what's new? You guessed it... more "same old, same old".

Leigh (5/17/2000; 19:10:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 30746)
Oldbug on Gold-Eagle
Dear Oldbug: We didn't answer the long form either, and we were visited by the census worker last week. My husband politely gave her the minimum information (number of people in the household, ages, names) and told her we would not answer any further questions. Sure, she threatened us with a visit from her supervisor, but we're not exactly shaking with fear. We'd rather pay a fine than answer the outrageous questions the census asks. Wait till 2010; they'll be asking, "Are you a gold investor? How many ounces do you own? Where is it?"

Leigh (5/17/2000; 18:57:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 30745)
Carlos
Thanks for posting a great story! I think many of us have such scenarios in the back of their mind as we stash our gold away. The universal money, eagerly accepted by (just about) everyone in an emergency.

I spent my elementary school years in Rhode Island, in Barrington. It will always be my favorite state, though it's becoming increasingly socialistic.

How interesting that the Governor wrote this piece! I wonder if he's a goldbug, too?

SteveH (5/17/2000; 18:55:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30744)
I am not Kevin; I am SteveH
but this is about Kevin's experience. He gave his permission to post it.

Protecting gold:

After an incident this last weekend I composed the following
letter that I'm sending out to all papers, all my representatives
and senators and speaker of the house, Mr. Periconne. I also plan
on dropping a copy off to the woman who treated me badly and the
store manager. It is long but hopefully the papers will print it
anyway.

I have a problem I'm going to share with everyone because I feel
it's important. My name
is Kevin Volz. I live near Hessel, MI and I'm a Corrections
Officer. I believe in god. I
believe in law and order and except for occasionally speeding, am
a law abiding citizen. I care about my family. I've raised a son
that everyone tells me is a well behaved, polite young man which
makes me proud. I consider myself a good father because I try to
make time for my son and his interests. I have volunteered my
time for several organizations including Little League, Boy
Scouts and the Moose Lodge. I give to charity. I am willing to
give any of my neighbors or friends a helping hand if they need
it, sometimes even if they don't need it, I'll help out anyway.
I'll stop to see if someone broke down on the road needs help.
Basically, I've always considered myself a decent, hard working
average person. It seems though, that none of that matters for
one little reason, I own and enjoy shooting guns. I enjoy
shooting for fun and competitively. I also enjoy hunting.
Last Sunday while grocery shopping in Sault Ste. Marie, I picked
up a gun magazine and
was I in for a surprise when I got to the check out. When the
woman who was working
that check out, realized that it was a gun magazine, her eyes got
wide and she exclaimed
"OH". She then turned to a coworker at the next check out,
showing her the magazine and
stated to her, "Look at this. He's one of those." I was stunned.
I replied "Excuse me. What do you mean by that?" She then took
about a half step back, held up her hands and said "Don't go
postal on me now." I was utterly astonished. Just because I was
buying a gun magazine, I had suddenly became some sort of insane
monster. I didn't know what to say or do because I wasn't sure
how it would be taken as. I finally just stated, "Just because a
person is interested in guns, does not mean that they are some
sort of nut case."
I am thoroughly disgusted that due to the actions and lies of
the government's present
administration, abetted by the media, I have been turned into
some sort of person not to
be trusted, to even be feared just because I own guns. The fact
is that they are using lies to perpetuate this fear among people
which hopefully I will try to dispel here. Most of the facts that
I use here are taken right from governmental agencies of the same
government that spreads the lies in the first place or from
accepted studies done by major universities and can be verified
if the people take the time.

Fact 1; Of the 230,000,000 guns in America today, less than 1%
are used in any type of
criminal activity.
Fact 2; Using the most conservative estimates at least 700,000
lives, or up to as many
as 250,000,000 lives a year are saved by guns. Most times
without a shot even being fired.
Fact 3; Unintentional deaths from guns has went down over the
last 30 years while
the numbers of guns in this country has doubled.
Fact 4; You are more likely to die from a car accident, a fall,
drowning, a fire, choking on something or by poison
than being accidentally shot.
Fact 5; Over 70% of the people who shoot someone else have been
convicted of a
prior criminal act.
Fact 6; Of the supposedly 13 children who die daily from guns, 11
of them are 15 -19
year olds that are killed in mostly gang related
shootings.
Fact 7; Gun use, sales and manufacturing is one of the most
regulated industries with
over 20,000 laws concerning guns on the books.
Fact 8; If you are depending on the police to protect to you, you
are sadly misinformed
being the courts have ruled time after time that the
police have no duty to protect you. This is not meant
to disparage any of the fine people that work as police
officers because they try to do the best that they can but they
could stand there and watch you being victimized,
doing nothing to help and would be perfectly legal in
doing so. Ever call 911 only to have the police never
show up?
Fact 9; The government has commissioned their own studies that
say gun control does
not work. If their own studies show that gun control
doesn't work, what is their
reasoning for pushing it?
Fact 10; In the most comprehensive study ever done concerning
guns and crime (John
Lott's, More Guns - Less Crime), it was shown more guns
in the hands of law
abiding citizens do more to prevent crime than any other
measure taken.

As a Corrections Officer, I know that we can not stop those who
wish to cause harm to
others even inside the correctional setting where we have removed
all conventional
weapons and they are under basically 24 hr surveillance.
Criminals are always going to
use whatever possible to give them the most power over their
intended victims which
unfortunately includes guns. Being this country has been waging a
losing war on drugs for the last 25 years, what makes them think
they can stop criminals from getting guns when they can't stop
drugs.

Kevin Volz


Mr Gresham (5/17/2000; 18:34:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 30743)
Elevator Guy #30706
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0015/features-miller.shtml
Thanks, EG! You remind me why I love religion so much that I am not a part of any organized one. Anytime people bring up that topic in small, petty ways, it's such a relief to me when you or someone with your insight speaks up to remind us what it's about. Fresh air!

TC -- The Gilded Opinion Alan Brown sample you gave looks juicy! Reminding us of the dangers of playing with paper, you might get burned, even if you are "right" as a bear. Also, that "SOMEONE is buying that gold, whatever the price languishes at..."

Now I wonder who that might that be? (I got in trouble before for using my Dana Carvey Church Lady voice to answer such a question, so I'll leave it to the active imaginations of you inquring -- or is it "enquiring"? -- minds out there.) Clue: It ain't Santa Claus. Read the link.

Two+ weeks of catching up reading to do here after 14 days of mentally knocking three zeroes off Italian lire prices, then dividing by two, to shop in US comparisons. The funny thing is, they price everything with "000" or "500" at the end anyway. The extra digits contain no data at all. Just waiting for the Euro currency to totally retire the lire, I guess.

Glad to be home...



Carlos (5/17/2000; 18:25:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 30742)
Get Your Suitcase. (THIS IS GOLD RELATED)
I have been a lurker here for a little while. Stumbled onto this site, read ABC's of Gold Investing and became a PGB.
I am grateful for the outstanding posters here.

Following are some snippets from a long article in the Providence Journal written by former Governor Bruce Sundlun.
He was a pilot in WW11, shot down over France but survived
the war. This article is the story told by a retiring prof. at URI recently.

FLIGHT FROM NAZISM
WITH A LITTLE LUCK AND A BIG SUITCASE. BY BRUCE SUNDLUN

"Friday, MAY 10, 1940, was a significant date in history. At 5:30 a.m., Hitler gave the order for Germany to attack the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium and France. By the end of the day Neville Chamberlain had resigned as British prime minister, and Winston Churchill had become prime minister.
Robert Gutchen was eight years old and living in Antwerp , a seaport in northeast Belgium. On that day he, his mother, Stella, and his older sister, Claudine, was awakened by explosions. They didn't think much about it, because the Belgium Army often practised artillery shooting nearby. Alex Gutchen, his father, was away in England for a few days on business, and expected to return that day. Bob remembers that from his fifth-floor apartment window, he could see 'black things' falling on downtown Antwerp about a mile away, and he saw much smoke over the city.
The apartment concierge knocked on the Gutchen door and told everyone to go to the basement. Down there, they heard King Leopold 111 anounce on the radio the attack, and urged everyone to stay calm. He assured his listeners that the Belgian Army would stop the attack. Bob remembers that he knew there was war in Europe, he remembers photos of men in white on skis fighting in Finland with the Soviets, and he remembers that Germany had invaded Poland. He doesn't remember anyone in the family being concerned about Germany
invading Belgium. That was a big surprise.
Bob Gutchen remembers other details, too, details resulting in his life being saved, and his not being shipped to Auschwitz, and death in the gas chambers. His mother and his Uncle both took actions that morning that saved the family's lives. His mother sent her 15-year old daughter quickly downstairs to the apartment garage to get the keys to the family car, a 1937 green four-door Pontiac sedan. More important, Uncle Herman took Bob's sister, Claudine downtown to the family's successful diamond company offices, and took all the cash and diamonds they could find, packed them in a SUITCASE (italics mine), and quickly left. From that moment on, that suitcase never left Uncle Herman's hand. 'The suitcase saved our lives.' says Bob today.
By midday, the Gutchen family had left Antwerp in a two-car convoy.....Bob's mother called her father in Brussels and urged him to join the family.....The grandfather, David Ptasznik declined...that cost him his
life." (They went to Ostend to get a boat to England. Had to leave there and went toward France. With much difficulty, they finally crossed the border and headed for Boulogne.)
"Along the road to Boulonge they learned another lesson that was to become an ironclad rule. Always keep the two cars together.......(the Pontiac had a flat tire, Uncle Herman had to turn around, come back a get someone to change the tire)."Uncle Herman went into the suitcase to get money or diamonds to pay someone to change the tire. Travelers could not buy gasoline at a French service station. They had to get permits from the local mayor. So the trick for Uncle Herman was to go to the mayor's office and see him personally to get the permits.The suitcase never failed."

(Boulogne was filled with British troops so they headed for Abbeville just ahead of the German's, turned toward Paris. After arriving there, they had to leave immediately becaus the German's were near the city. They headed for Bordeaux. On the way, the heard that Belgium had surrndered.)

"They had to cross the Loire river on a ferry. Uncle Herman got his car on the ferry, but there wasn't room for the Pontiac. Hundred's of cars jammed the road behind the Pontiac so it could not move.It was scary; the two cars would be separated. Once again the suitcase was useful. Uncle Herman persuaded the drivers of the cars on the road to inch backwards so the Pontiac could back up, and let his car off the ferry. The two cars stayed together and took a later fery.Within a few days Paris was declared an "open city" and the French government moved to Bordeaux.(Four days later, they arrived in Bourdeaux, the city jammed with refugees). "The Hotels had no rooms, but Uncle Herman used his suitcase and got three rooms."(They had to go to Arcachon to get visas. After this they went to Bayonne to get the ship but red tape held them). "The next day there was another ship, the Ettrick. Thanks to the suitcase, Uncle Herman got two taxi drivers to drive them to the ship.

(The story continues and ends with all reaching safety in England, eight year old Bob studied in England, later in America and just retired from URI, which is 10 minutes from my home.)

I trust this has not been posted here amiss. I felt it spoke
clearly to the tenor of this forum. I happened to live during these times and well remember the gallantry of the Finnish troops, the dynamics of Winston Churchill and Edward R. Murrow from London and Gabriel Heather with his "there is
good news tonight". Also was working on the C&O piers under Army control, loaded the convoy that invaded North Africa, later the one to Sicily and receiving the wounded on the returning ships. That was the worst experience.Outstanding
men my age leaving on the ships and some returning shell-shocked, on stretchers or helped off the ship into the red cross cars. We also were one of the areas receiving POW's. Afterwards, was drafted and finished in the
Navy.

If this was out of order, I ask your forgiveness. An article like this makes that period seem like yesterday. I would that it were possible to round up the entire bureaucracy in Washington and transport them back in time for 48 hours of the horrors men went through to allow us the freedom we have today. Just maybe they would see things differently.

Carlos




SteveH (5/17/2000; 18:16:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30741)
Canuck
Good question.

Way I see it. It took me forever (but then that isn't unusual) to figure out what the heck is going on in gold. I was a motivated investigator. I turned every stone to figure out why my gold stocks and thus gold were taking it in the shorts, so to speak.

Now, do the Repubs have an inside track into the inner workings of the gold market. I think not. No, they are just now finding out something that is probably washing out the ears of those in high places, as we speak. Thanks to GATA.

I believe once it sinks in they will have to figure out what there is to be done with the greatest financial scandale of all time. Do they expose now; or do they expose later or do they just play dumb? You tell me.

TownCrier (5/17/2000; 17:28:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30740)
Hear ye! Hear ye! You don't want to miss this new addition to the Gilded Opinion
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/crowdsandgold.html
Grab your torch and let the link above be your guide down the hallways to find this latest offering from Alan Brown, entitled "Extraordinary Popular Delusions, The Madness of Crowds, Markets and the Gold Price." Below is a sample of the commentary that awaits your arrival...(be sure to hurry back here to share your own thoughts on these matters.)

"From the mayor to the chambermaid, all become involved in the notion of new wealth and instant riches. Even those opposed to the bubble usually try to make money on the other side of the equation. ... Whether one is "bullish" or "bearish" it is the same game and when it ends it has a tendency to end badly, taking all participants with it. Both the "bulls" and the "bears" get their respective heads delivered to them on a plate. Being right and being poor is not the same as sensing that something will end badly and then doing something constructive about it. Standing in front of the bulls prior to a stampede is a mistake many bears make. Being dependent upon a bubble for ones investment strategy, whether to the upside or the downside, means you are involved in the bubble itself. When it bursts it is of no consequence as to where you were sitting, the chances are you will get covered in something not of your own making....
What is interesting in the "extraordinary popular delusion" we are witnessing is that somebody is buying gold at these levels, and its not the gold bugs. Regardless of what the price is, every transaction has a buyer and a seller. Gold at these levels (even if the price does decline) is a great buy, providing of course one takes delivery of the purchase. While it is common knowledge that something funny is going on in the paper gold market, it still sets the price of physical metal; and should the shortage that shows up in the supply and demand numbers finally become a reality, then the leverage is in owning physical metal. Paper contracts will be shunned."

Nice work, Mr. Brown.

Al Fulchino (5/17/2000; 17:14:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30739)
The Stranger
Thanks for your comments. I believe the inertia you refer to is still not here. Largely this is due recent investment history being all that a large body of investors understand as their reality. And because there is no other choice "in "their minds", there is as of yet no need for an alternative way of thinking. The signs are there though for another reality that is lying beneath the sand on a beach. The next wave "could" be the one that uncovers the realities of currency debasements. As I have said before, when the time is right and when the latest "smart" leader or manipulator has used their last trick, the wave will wash into view what has been there all along. I do hold onto the view that things could be still corrected. But history has shown me that the odds say that a re-evaluation of a currency is the likely answer, thus a dollar rise in the value of gold. I am probably preaching to the chior but those are my thoughts anyway.

Best to you.

SHIFTY (5/17/2000; 17:03:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 30738)
Ponzi
Nasdaq 3,644.96 + Dow 10,769.74 = 14,414.70 divide by 2 = 7207.35 PONZI
Down 118.72

Yesterday the ponzi was up 118.36 ponzi points.
Today the ponzi was down 118 .72 ponzi points.

I look forword to the day the string break's on this yoyo!!

$hifty

BTD (5/17/2000; 16:41:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30737)
Will Fed rate hike lead to stronger dollar and lower gold price?
http://www.goldminingoutlook.com/
This is an excerpt from Steven Kaplan's web site:

"KAPLAN'S CORNER: QUESTION: Won't the recent rate hike by the U.S. Federal Reserve lead to a stronger dollar and therefore a lower gold price? ANSWER: No. Although the initial knee-jerk reaction may be for investors to buy dollars, the inevitable slowdown in the U.S. economy which will result from the recent Fed rate hikes will have a far greater negative effect on the dollar than the positive impact of a greater nominal interest value for time deposits. If the U.S. dollar were really going to rise, overseas investors would be eager to buy U.S.-denominated bonds and notes, whereas they are actually reducing their net purchases of such securities. More importantly, the Treasury yield curve would be normal, not inverted; an inverted curve, in which the 5-year Treasury has a higher yield than the 30-year Treasury, almost always leads to a recession and a lower greenback. The 6-month Treasury has a higher yield than the 30-year Treasury; even the 3-month has almost as high a return as the long bond. Also, a look at previous historical occasions when the Fed raised rates at this pace shows that in almost all cases the U.S. dollar became weaker, not stronger, after several rate increases had been made. "

ss of nep (5/17/2000; 16:30:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 30736)
Canuck (05/17/00; 15:52:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30735)

I interject

all parties and all candidates in all parties

in all countries are puppets of the same puppetmasters,

a better question is who are the puppetmasters.


The individual smeer tactics are an illusion, the sole intent of which is to distract.






Canuck (05/17/00; 15:52:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30735)
@ PH in LA and Steve H.
I am completely ignorant of politics but noticing your posts today I must ask a question; please forgive me if it is way out in 'left field'.

If we are to assume the Democrats are manipulating all markets from bananas to gold and everything in between to re-elect their party why are the Republicans not exposing the scam? Is this not the 'Achilles Heel' of the Democrats?

It has been mentioned on this forum numerous times that the government is working all angles to hold on to the economy for re-election sake. So, conversely why are the Republicans not exposing the shams and scams? Do the Republicans want to inherit this mess and then (possibly) be blamed for the fall of the 10 year bull?

Again, I am totally ignorant of US politics but I know in Canada the 'opposition's' campaign is to smear the government any way it can.

Canuck.



TownCrier (05/17/00; 15:11:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 30734)
The Week in Gold has been updated!
http://www.usagold.com/wgc.html
Grab your torch and follow the link above to the latest commentary from the World Gold Council on the events that shaped the gold market for the week May 8 - 12.

Of interest:

"There were no statistics released by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission this week. The last figures published, which were for the two weeks ended May 2, showed a sizeable 60 per cent jump in the net short position of the large speculators on Comex - up from 20,353 contracts (equivalent to 63.3 tonnes) to 32,595 contracts (101.4 tonnes)."

In all candor, while these parenthetical figures may give you an appreciation for the theoretical reality of this action, the less flashy truth of the matter is more like this version:

"The last figures published, which were for the two weeks ended May 2, showed a sizeable 60 per cent jump in the net short position of the large speculators on Comex - up from 20,353 contracts (equivalent to 20,353 sheets of paper) to 32,595 contracts (32,595 sheets)."

This is not a dig on the WGC. Here in The Tower we have on occasion offered the tonnage equivalents of COMEX open interest as a means to enhance the perspective. But the reality is, these contract can and largely will be closed with an offsetting contract in an all-cash round trip.


WGC futher tells us:

"The fifth seat on the London Gold Fix, made vacant by the merger of fixing members HSBC and Republic National Bank of New York, has been purchased by Credit Suisse First Boston. The five members of the Fix are now N.M. Rothschild, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, ScotiaMocatta and Credit Suisse First Boston."

TownCrier (05/17/00; 14:22:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 30733)
Sir Luv_G7 on MK's market report mention of Swiss sales
Thank you for your attention to this matter, and for also providing additional facets for discussion of this at the Forum.

While it is true, as you rightly observe, that the Swiss gold shall be allocated through the BIS and not, therefore, appear as "oversupply" being dumped on the spot market, please consider that this gold is, nonetheless, helping to fill some very important demand for the metal. Were it not for these needs being fulfulled through the BIS with Swiss gold, the demand might then surely have to turn to "the spot market" as you say in seeking the desired metal.

In such an event, the arrival of this level of demand for gold at the cash-counter would thus bring about certain market turmoil, revealing the dirty little secret of the spot gold market...that there isn't one.

That being said, for as long as the wide and real demands for metal continue to be satisfied "by hook or by crook," we continue to heed our own counsel, joining in with those seeking acquisition of metal at these artificially low "spot prices" which are themselves only derivations of prices for the inflated supply of paper instruments parading as gold.

It is only when you consider the inevitable collapse of this patchwork structure that you can clearly recognize the most important "leverage" of all...to be found only in ownership of the metal itself. When the rains come, how very nice it is to have a tangible house and roof overhead, while all others suddenly see the weakness of their strategy to hold instead only blueprints of houses.

Beowulf (05/17/00; 14:21:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 30732)
Time to start regulating disgruntled employees
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/000517/n17626370.html
Angry shareholder halts Texas meeting with grenade.

This was a 72 year old ex-employee. He did exactly what I've always wanted to do at work while sitting in boring unproductive meetings.

PH in LA (05/17/00; 14:12:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30731)
Keepin' an eye on the election.
SteveH:

Trouble is, the low price of gold has already endured for several years. Once we get the next election out of the way, it will be time to start thinking of the following one. Wouldn't want everything to go to hell in advance of the 2004 election, would they?

Gandalf the White (05/17/00; 13:54:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30730)
The Hobbits are celebrating !
THE KING HAS RETURNED !!! -- Welcome back Aragorn III !!!!! -- I am please to report that each of the Hobbits have successfully completed your challenge and have the little round yellow thingie sown in their vest pocket. -- We are awaiting your further instructions. -- Gandy
<;-)


SteveH (05/17/00; 13:50:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30729)
a few thougths
It seems that the dollar is being held up by the rise in interest rates. This is the whole point of the rate hikes. Discount all the rest of the hoopla seems to be the mantra here. The rate hikes are to keep people demanding green backs. Gold v dollar relationship is a direct inverse one. When one goes up, the other goes down.

The key (I believe) to understand when gold will reverse is to understand under what condition it would be ok for the dollar to reverse.

If it is as I fear, there is no condition under which the dollar can safely reverse without the following ocurring:

gold rise to unprecedented heights.
stock markets world-wide to tank.
Gold derivatives to crash and burn a few select bullion houses.
Oil to move throught he roof.
Euro to become the world reserve currency.

So, folks of the roundtable, let us put our heads together and focus in on the condition(s) under which it is ok for a weak dollar. If there are none, then what is happening now is tantamount to a big stalling tactic by the dollar forces. To stall is to delay. The big ticket at stake is the US Presidency. Could the delay then be to get us through the election with the big-fall to arrive shortly thereafter? Some folks think so.

Yet, somehow I see the falling gold price now as an indication that desparate folks are taking desparate measures. I know I see the POG at 272 and just shrug my shoulders while I think, "Seems like somebody really wants to see the POG really low -- or the dollar really high. This will end soon enough. Wish I had some more bucks to load up on physical."

end of thoughts.



oldgold (5/17/2000; 13:23:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30728)
Luv-G7
I hope you are right that the market is much tighter than implied by the very low lease rates. But after so many false rallies in POG I have developed a great deal of skepticism re predictions of an imminent turn in the gold market.

To my simple way of thinking, the CBs can turn this market anytime they want to by simply withholding bullion from the lease market. BTW, that would enable the British and the Swiss and the other sellers to get much higher prices for the gold they want to dispose of.

The fact that they continue to lease gold at giveaway rates even at the cost of lower prices for the gold they want to sell tells me their primary objective is to keep POG depressed. Now this objective could change on a dime, but until it does I very much doubt that POG will rally above $300 no matter how much the dollar may fall or inflation may rise.

Luv_G7 (5/17/2000; 12:22:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 30727)
Oldgold: Liquidity IS tight
I'm not so sure that a low lease rate means there is actual physical to borrow at that price. The gold market is very opaque, and the central banks reveal little to the general public. The BS "Analysts" who talk down the market want eveyone to believe the world is flush with physical. Frank Veneroso, the worlds leading supply/demand expert says otherwise.

If you're a Goldman trader, and want to bring down the market, it's not as simple as calling a German bank and asking "Do you have 15 tons to lease". Many of the central banks are scrambling to get back the gold they previously leased.

Reports from smaller (non-corrupt) bullion dealers across the country have all reported difficulty in obtaining physical metal. Many contributors to GATA's cause have also written about tightness in the market. Even the US Mint has withheld gold coin sales in recent months, then (as poker faced liars) issue a statement saying no one buying (becuase they can't).

But yes, higher lease rates would certainly help, even if it's only a psychological thing. I'd love for GATA to find out why the rates stay so low.








oldgold (5/17/2000; 11:53:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30726)
LUV-G7
How can you say there is a shortage of liquidity in the gold market? The problem is there is way too much liquidity as shown by dirt cheap lease rates. When short sellers can borrow gold for a year at 1.5% and invest the proceeds in riskless t bills at well over 6% -- that creates a mighty strong headwind for gold to overcome.

The simple fact is that gold rallies will continue to peter out fast unless and until lease rates climb sharply and stay up.

SHIFTY (5/17/2000; 11:18:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30725)
RS
That caller reminds me of an old friend's wife. She didn't see how they were out of money, she still had checks left.!!
My friend lost it all.


Leland (5/17/2000; 11:17:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30724)
Correction....
http://www.globeinvestor.com/archive/gam/20000517/ROUTS.html
.

Leland (5/17/2000; 11:04:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 30723)
RS, It Gets Complicated, too...As This Article Today Tells...
http://www.globalinvestor.com/archive/gam/20000517/ROUTS.html
"The high dollar is the result of the high propensity of
Americans to consume. Indeed, the United States has
reached a point where spending has caught up with income.
How can American consumers and businesses invest in
housing, plant and equipment, research and development and
other expensive activities without financial capital? They
cannot, and so if the funds are not being saved by
Americans, they must be obtained from overseas.

This means that the United States is importing capital month
after month. What is happening is that foreigners are
'lending' the United States the funds needed to finance U.S.
investment by buying up U.S. equity and debt securities.

Of course, these have to be paid for with U.S. dollars, which
is what foreigners are buying up. This in turn forces up the
value of the dollar, so the more the United States depends on
foreign capital, the higher the greenback goes."

The next chapter of the story is titled, "REPATRIATION".


RS (5/17/2000; 10:27:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 30722)
(No Subject)

There is a radio talk/call-in show produced in Nashville, Tennessee called "The Money Game", hosted by one Dave Ramsey.
Mr. Ramsey is a financial planner who councils people generally to "get out of debt".

It's quite common to hear callers to the show seeking help with CREDIT-CARD debt in amounts equal to the family's anual salary, or more.

One recent caller and her husband had accumulated over $75K in plastic obligations. They are no longer able to service the interest at this point. When Mr. Ramsey asked her how this happened, her response was "Well... we've been married for nine years..." and here she paused, as though this explained everything.

There, but for the grace of God...


Luv_G7 (5/17/2000; 10:08:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 30721)
USAGOLD - Your market report does a disservice
I take issue with today's market report, where you write:

"Stymied on the upside by the supplies coming out of Switzerland and Britain as well as the downside by strong physical buying..."

Everyone following this sector knows that the Swiss sales will be handled through the BIS, and will never hit the spot market. The Swiss gold will just be transferred from one EU bank to another - it will have no effect on the spot price. Gold is sinking today because people expect it to be forced down before next week's auction. But right after the March auction, it jumped about $7.

There is an absolute shortage of liquidity in the gold market right now, and it will only take a spark to send gold above $300.

When you discuss supply, please be more specific. The Swiss announcement was actually good for the market. There's not much Central Bank gold left to come on the market.



Christopher (5/17/2000; 10:04:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 30720)
Re:yesterdays discussion
Good Morning Gentlemen, Ladies, Knights:

For those of you involved in the discussions of yesterday concerning mainly the NWO and further along the Jewish and Christian veins of said topic, please allow me to direct you to furhter study and contemplation of ALL that was spoken of. Let me not do this with my words, (for they can not be trusted) but with the Words of God(whose can.) Please read the whole of the book of 1st Peter-it is a short five chapters and can be read in 15 minutes. And for those of you who feel this is off topic, the Apostle mentions Gold twice in the first chapter, and almost the whole of the second chapter is devoted to how a Christian should react to kings and governors

Sincerely,

Christopher

PH in LA (5/17/2000; 9:36:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30719)
"Long live the King!"
Hail, Sir Aragorn!

Only yesterday, wondering what might have happened one of my favorite posters, I noted that you had not posted since November 24, 1999. Here's hoping that you have spent at least part of that time sailing and garnering more of the coveted (gold) medals you deserve.

And further... that this "return of the King" to our discussion presages positive augurs for our beloved "prescious" POG.

Welcome back, Aragorn!

Laura (5/17/2000; 9:03:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 30718)
oil consumption will exceed production 3rd and 4th quaters
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Bloomberg%20Energy&touch=1&T=energy_news_front.ht&s=AORwoDhKDQ3J1ZGUg
``The speed and velocity of this thing is quite frightening.''


USAGOLD (5/17/2000; 8:55:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 30717)
Today's Report: Buffett Says What CNBC Won't: "We do not think the general ownership of equities is going to be very exciting over the next 10 to 15 years."
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
5/17/00 Indications
 Current
 Change
Gold June Comex
273.70
-2.50
Silver July Comex
5.11
-0.03
30 Yr TBond June CBOT
94~02
-0~15
Dollar Index June NYBOT
111.92
+0.69


PURCHASE ON LINE:

The Historic Kaiser Wilhelm Gold Mark for Privacy-Minded Investors

Market Report (5/17/00): Gold got pummelled this morning along with just about everything
else in the investment markets, excepting the dollar of course which continued its unaltered march
to currency nirvana -- all courtesy of the Fed half-point interest rate increase yesterday. The stock
market in its best Wile E. Coyote imitation hung suspended in mid-air yesterday thinking it had
survived once again the folly of its ways only to look down today and note grimly that there was
nothing but rarefied air under foot. The sly smile turns to somber resignation. A recognizable
gulp...then the plunge -- the DJIA down 126 as we go to fetch this over.

I received the Grant letter (Grant's Interest Rate Observor) and had a chance to review it early this
morning over a cup of coffee. He reports there what the mainstream press wouldn't about the
recent Berkshire Hathaway stockholder conference. Apparently, Warren Buffett delivered an
address at the meeting titled "Things You Don't Hear Everyday on CNBC." In it he made some
rather disparaging comments about the stock market including the overview that "We do not think
the general ownership of equities is going to be very exciting over the next 10 to 15 years." His
partner, Charles Munger, was less delicate about what he called "the wretched excesses" of Wall
Street. "You are mixing," he observed, "a good concept such as the Internet, with irrational
excess. But, if you mix raisins with turds, they are still turds." Turds. Indeed. Buffett concluded
that "When the reversal comes, it's likely to be extreme."

Along these lines, our friend, Arch Crawford, who has the best track record of all the newsletter
writers in making the calls and has won numerous awards for doing so, reports in his latest letter
this observation from financial editor E.J. Welsh: "[Alan Greenspan] has also said that the Fed is
not targeting stock prices. But to a lot of 28 year-old money managers this seems disingenuous.
They can think of no other reason why a company with no foreseeable earnings should see its
stock fall from 200 times 2001 sales to 100 times in less than four weeks. To those investing
according to the greater fool theory, it must be a bitter medicine to learn there are a finite number of
fools."

As for gold, there was little in the way of fresh news. The market was weak in both Asia and
Europe overnight. Given the circumstances in the stock market, we think the yellow metal will be
getting its fair share of interest among value seeking investors. Physical demand remains steady at
these prices with the paper players continuing to lament their fate in market that has not exhibited
much play in either direction. Stymied on the upside by the supplies coming out of Switzerland
and Britain as well as the downside by strong physical buying from inflation conscious investors
worldwide, the gold market isn't much of a play for traders these days. The knowlegeable investor
is a physical buyer for reasons well known to those who read this report on a daily basis.

If the above comment seems a bit cryptic to you, perhaps you would gain from an information
packet which includes our widely read newsletter and our new Gold Almanac 2000. Please see
below.

That's it for today, fellow goldmeisters. Have a good day. We'll see you back here same time,
same place tomorrow.



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Just go to the

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though we are certain all would enjoy and learn from it. Those who would like to receive it, AND
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METALS/USAGOLD CAN RECEIVE THE GOLD ALMANAC 2000 FREE OF CHARGE
BY REQUESTING A COPY THROUGH MARIE 800 869-5115, OR BY E-MAIL --
marie@usagold.com. BE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR CURRENT MAILING ADDRESS.



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If you are looking for a pro-gold view of the various financial markets as well as a summary of the
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-- Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious Metals has
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Hill Billy Mitchell (5/17/2000; 6:59:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 30716)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: May 16 2000

Rates For Monday, May 15, 2000

Federal funds 6.34

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.25
10-year 6.47
20-year 6.56
30-year 6.17

upside-down spread FF vs long bond = .17%)


ss of nep (5/17/2000; 6:35:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 30715)
testing - testing
http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/2000q2/2000_05/1000516.132024.sharefine.htm




ss of nep (5/17/2000; 6:25:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30714)
Drooy story

Date: Tue May 16 2000 17:13
flierdude (Been alot of Durbin Deep bashers lately.) ID#341249:
Copyright © 2000 flierdude/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There can only be 22 shareholders that own more of DRD then myself. The only reason I own the stock is because of the picture of the sun-dial on the front of their Annual Report. I'm not shi*in ya. Thats the only reason I own it........ In the middle of the sun-dial is attached, a bar. At the top of this bar is a pentagram. Inside of the pentagram is three boxs on top of each other symbolising "We control everything" Through the pentagram is an arrow which penetrates through three circles that encompass the pentagram. As soon as I saw that sun-dial I knew it was contolled by 'them'. This holding is insurance, in case 'they' are successful. The same group that controls ABX controls DRD. If you look at their largest shareholders you will find that six groups or individuals own 91.69% of the shares. DRD will not go under unless 'they' lose contol. Unlikely.



Black Blade (5/17/2000; 6:11:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30713)
Morning Wakeup Call!
Source: Bridge News
Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold weaker on absence of buyers
By Hiroyuki Fujiwara, BridgeNews

Tokyo--May 17--Spot gold was weaker due to the absence of buyers on Wednesday in Asia after overnight slips on the U.S. interest rate hike, dealers said. Prices fell below the key U.S. $275 per ounce, while they said few tried to open fresh selling positions at that price level. Profit taking capped platinum in the sluggish market amid a lack of fresh incentives, the dealers said. Physical dealers continued to buy spot gold below $275, but few want to increase gold stocks in hand now on expectations of further price decline, the dealers said. The weaker sentiment was likely to dominate the gold market toward the next U.K. Treasury's auction scheduled on May 23, they said. Players confirmed the support line of $275 over the past few days, but a lack of buying factors prevent prices from rising from the bottom side of the recent range between $275 and $278, the dealers said. Most players were hesitant to dump gold in the near term, while some selling from disappointing players could hurt the market, they said. Overnight firmer NYMEX platinum encouraged speculators on the Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) on Wednesday early in the morning, but a lack of follow-through buying triggered profit taking in the afternoon, the dealers said. Spot platinum has been supported at about $500 in the past couple of weeks, while TOCOM February and April 2001 contracts hit life of contract highs Wednesday. The U.S. dollar/yen trimmed overnight gains in the Asian afternoon, this also depressed yen-denominated TOCOM platinum, they said.

Black Blade: Same ole, same ole

NY Precious Metals Review: Jun gold slips on Fed rate hike

New York--May 16--COMEX Jun gold futures settled down 20 cents at $276.20 per ounce, giving up the small gains it saw earlier in the session as the US Federal Reserve said that it was hiking interest rates by 50 basis points. This move hurts gold prices by keeping a lid on inflation pressures and boosting the dollar. Jly silver jumped to a 1-month high of $5.19 on fund short-covering. (Story .2333)

Black Blade: Uh Huh!

ECB says euro zone FX assets fell on portfolio management

Frankfurt--May 16--Foreign currency assets registered by the European central bank system reached 262.3 billion euros as of May 12, down 800 million euros from May 5, the ECB said Tuesday in its weekly financial statement. The decline was related to portfolio management of national central banks' foreign reserves, the ECB said. In addition, total gold assets w ere unchanged on the week at 115.677 billion euros on May 12, the ECB said. (Story .782)

Black Blade: Ho Hum.

Black Blade: Rumor has it that Sunshine Mining and Refining Co. (SSC) could be filing chapter 11 soon. What a shame for a company that survived over 100 years.



Henri (5/17/2000; 5:42:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 30712)
Aragorn III Got Milk?
You, Sir Knight are a master at the combination of wit and wisdom into an integrated whole that has my entire being shaking with mirth. I fear I will soon become puddin'

SteveH (5/17/2000; 5:26:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 30711)
Market futures decidedly down...
and a note from the Arkansas Governor re: S&W and manufacturer law suits.

POLICY MATTERS

The following is a copy of the text from a letter written by Arkansas
Governor Mike Huckabee to New York Attorney General, Eliot Spitzer,
regarding the Smith and Wesson quid pro quo -- compliance with
Clinton's gun mandates in order to win federal and state law
enforcement purchase contracts.

Dear General Spitzer:

I have received your letter inviting me to join in your effort to
encourage various state and local governments to award
law enforcement gun contracts only to gun manufacturers agreeing to a
"Code of Conduct" which dictates various business practices,
safety features, marketing strategies, etc., for both gun manufacturers
and gun dealers at the wholesale and retail level. I must respectfully
decline your invitation.

First let me say, if I believed the safety of my constituents were
truly the issue, I would be much more considerate of your request. But
we are not living in a country flooded with "unsafe" guns. It is their
illegal use that endangers us -- that must be addressed through
vigorous criminal prosecution.

Providing for guns safety locks is one thing and, in truth, only a
small part of your "Code of Conduct." However, dictating
how many guns a purchaser is allowed to take home on one day, banning
sales at gun shows and prohibiting a minor from even entering a gun
store without a parent or guardian are parts of a political agenda, not
a push for "gun safety." Coupling the safety issue with a strict
regulation of business practices is merely a maneuver to advance a
decidedly political agenda under the guise of "public safety."

I am a strong proponent and defender of Americans' Second Amendment
right to keep and bear arms. I also make every effort to
be a responsible manager of my constituents' tax dollars. I
ask the director of the Arkansas State Police to make purchasing
and requisition decisions based on quality, service and price. I will not
ask him to award a lucrative government contract in order to further a
political agenda geared at controlling and ultimately destroying the
firearms industry. I want Arkansas State Troopers to protect our
citizens and themselves using the best guns available, not guns from
the most "politically correct" manufacturer.

In 1999, I signed into law an act prohibiting Arkansas' local
governments from suing firearms manufacturers seeking
compensation for injuries and deaths resulting from the illegal use of
these companies' products. To hold the gun industry accountable for crime
is like holding our nation's farmers liable for the health care costs
associated with obesity. The desire of some to blame the gun
manufacturers for crime rather than prosecute criminals seems to me a
sadly misguided attempt at protecting our citizens. It is also a
rather thinly veiled attempt to vilify and control those who engage in
a business which is eminently legal and necessary, yet not
particularly smiled upon by the current administration in Washington.
I thank God previous administrations understood and appreciated not
only the sanctity of the Second Amendment, but its necessity as well.

Gun manufacturers make the Second Amendment a viable right rather than
some theoretical proposition. I will not abuse my authority as
Governor to pursue their demise or dictate their business practices
through coercion.

So the answer is a definite "no," I will not seek the capitulation of
firearm manufacturers through the use of asinine lawsuits or the
doling out of taxpayer-funded government contracts. I regret that you
feel either of these tactics to be worthwhile endeavors.

Sincerely yours,
Mike Huckabee

HI - HAT (5/17/2000; 4:24:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30710)
JOURNEYMAN
The dimensions and tempo, of where this is all going, is both exhiliarating and frightening. Thankyou for reminding us of the inherent common sense of everyday people and the ruminations on Von Mises. The crown jewel of empirical common sense.

Your distinction of Capitolism vrs Free Market is particularly noteworthy. The "GOOD" can only be exhalted on a level playing field of honest weights and measures.

The debauchery and debasement of Man's wealth mediums cheapens and mocks achievement.

This Fiat debasement is the well-spring that waters and nourishes UN necessary evil. I hope our stand for gold and gold itself can provide the foundation to refurbish our Rebublic, our Constitution, our GOOD.

Aragorn III (05/17/00; 02:55:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 30709)
When thoughts run like fire and ice in the same mind
An interesting, but entirely unsettling assortment of posts have been offered this past day. I ask you, where can one find peace when harboring such internal storms? In one breath we are told that our domestic government has gone bad, that overseas governments are socialistic and worse, and yet, that the replacement of these multiple and various governments with a theoretical One World Government or a New World Order would be as bad or worse. Are we therefore to conclude that ALL government is bad, or rather that, as uncharacteristic as it seems, we should throw our support behind our existing governments so as to ward off the dreaded usurpation? Better still, "Let liberty and free enterprise rule the day!" they might say.

Gather your wits please, and know your own mind on government: a virtue or a curse? For as surely as many shall say "Curse", these same will be the first and the loudest to cite the principle evidence of evil to be held against such banking enterprises as the Federal Reserve System or the BIS is that they are NOT strict governmental entities themselves, but rather "private corporations".

In like manner we see people who proclaim that our domestic paper currency has gone bad, that overseas currencies are "socialistic" and worse, and yet, that the replacement of them with a theoretical One World Currency would be worst of all. These are surely among the loudest to proclaim "Gold must be allowed to have its day!" and yet they then cite "better leverage" on gold mining shares and gold futures/options...and therefore embrace the paper status quo.

Such people are keen to say, "Blessed be the simpletons of the world who are buying milk, for I shall be wiser and buy a cow!" As with most plans, it looks good on paper until the moment of truth arrives, revealing your speculative expectations to be pure bull.

It has been long in the baking, but when this cake is served, only one thing will matter...

got milk?

tg (05/17/00; 02:22:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 30708)
RELIGION & GOLD
I have friends who are Christians, and I have friends who are Jews. The ones I dislike are the fundamentalists, who can only see the world from their perspective.
Funnily enough neither religion can tell me what will happen to gold in the near future. So why not shutup about your religious standpoints and get back to the topic of this forum.

Strad Master (05/17/00; 01:03:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 30707)
Elevator Guy
Bravo!
Eloquently stated! You are a credit to your religion and to His name.

Regards to you and to the whole Elevator Guy clan.

elevator guy (05/17/00; 00:44:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30706)
@Jews inwardly
Jesus was a Jew.

The Bible is a Jewish book.

I wouldn't know anything about the one and only true and living God, had it not been for the revelation of Himself through the Jews.

The Jews dont just THINK they are special, in fact, they ARE special, because they were chosen by God. If you cant see this, then you may not be a real Christian at all, because it is a clear teaching of Scripture, and your argument therefore is not with me, but against God.

The Bible is the only book that tells the end from the beginning.

God loves the Jews, and has further plans for them.

We Christians are branches grafted in, and remember that if God spared not the natural branches, then how should we behave as grafted on branches? What should our attitude toward the Jews be? Read your Bible.

Yes, we can state true things. But for what purpose? Many divisive, and hateful things are said and done in the name of truth. We should ask ourselves, what is our true motivation? As Christians, (and I speak not for all, but for a few), our goal is to bring glory to God. Are we doing so? Am I doing so?

You can catch more bees with honey, than with vinegar. And we ARE supposed to be catching bees.

If not for the love of God, then for the truth of gold, lets join forces and move on.

We all have a lot to learn from each other, and this forum profits us all tremendously, intellectually, spiritually, and monetarily.

Heres wishing everyone prosperity, and peace.

Leland (05/17/00; 00:12:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30705)
I Guess That I'm Beginning to Understand Inflation..
And I love my Morgans, including my one an' only 1879cc.



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