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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/16/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

The Invisible Hand (11/16/02; 23:26:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 89787)
What am I missing? Re: the deceptive availability of gold in the physical market
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/McEwen.html

It is being argued that gold can only be bought in small quantities.

Okay, I want 5 tonnes of gold. I find (on the web) the yellow pages from all over the planet and I telephone them and I buy the whole stock of all gold shops. Will this not amount to 5 tonnes?

Don't tell me the price or the costs of the purchase are too high. I don't mind these as I know gold is about to skyrocket.

Moreover, I am living in the Philippines (ask our hosts for my e-mail if you're the buyer) and a lot of looted WW II gold was stored here by the Japanese. Some of this gold is now available in Manila warehouses. The only problem I face is that I can't move this gold (legally, that is) out of the country but can only sell it to the Philippine central bank. What do I mind? I don't need so much for my teeth. I'll just hire some security guards to guard the warehouse. And you want to buy it before the skyrocketing, well why don't you come to live here in the meantime? The climate is nice, life is cheap and the government keeps out of your way.

GratefulForGold (11/16/02; 23:18:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89786)
a nation of one #89762 - "Spectacular Attacks"

ANOO, our government's lack of responsible action has alarmed me, too. Only vaguely in the back of my mind, but your post has brought it more to the forefront. Just last night in a conversation I wondered why there hasn't been more action with the smallpox vaccine. At least to the point of having it distributed and ready to administer. Then, beyond that, why not offer the public the opportunity to immunize on a voluntary basis, now. Of course, all negative side-effects would need to be communicated. So, let people make informed decisions ahead of time. As it stands, there will be incredible chaos and lack of treatment should smallpox turn up in the US. (Also, I need to read up on "mandatory immunization" that some people fear.)

A few months ago, some community near a nuclear power plant in the NE distributed potassium iodide tablets to its citizens one day. I think they gave one (lousy) tablet per person. Great, that will get you through day 1. I haven't followed this to know whether other communities in the US have attempted to do the same. But, as it stands now, I wonder if our government will even mention potassium iodide (and that is one of the lesser problems of nuclear radiation). Some merchants have made it a point to start carrying it (because of public demand) but I don't know of our federal government having taken any action.

So, your post and my usual naive questioning leads me to wonder WHY they haven't taken any steps to protect the public, or more accurately, to help the public protect themselves? My evil twin promptly pipes up with "They don't want the public protected. The more killed by any acts attributable to "terrorists" will add fuel to the flame of hatred and further entrench public sentiment towards "bomb the bastards." Or, perhaps more benignly, they only want the public to remain aware of the possibility of attack but not to panic. "Panic" being defined as taking action to protect oneself and loved ones by buying food, medicine, and (god forbid) gold and silver, etc. That would mean the consumer spending/supporting "undesirable" sectors and not cars, the stock market, retail clothing malls, etc.

I don't know. Perhaps its just more "mass mind manipulation" where the "cry wolf" scenario is played out often enough that the desired effect of continued numbness remains intact. Since the administration was criticized for not "alerting" the public on info it had prior to 9/11, maybe they're just giving the public what it asked for.

But, in reality, the "public" seems to be asking for ongoing oblivion. I am considered the "nut" among my friends for even thinking along these lines (PMs, realities of a terrorist attack, etc.). So, can our government of elected politicians (well, some of them are elected, others are "appointed" or "electronically elected") be expected to give the public what it doesn't want before they absolutely have to?

Then, again, it could be nothing more sinister than our "leader" not being able to deal with more than 1 or 2 issues at a time, as many have suggested. And, obviously, the two major issues with regard to "terrorists" seem to be taking over the ME, and making sweeping political reform that would grant the government unprecedented control over the citizens of the US. What a deal.


Golden Bear (11/16/02; 23:12:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89785)
mikal (msg#: 89784),(msg#: 89783),(msg#: 89782)
Thanks for posting these articles mikal. Another nail in the coffin for democracy and liberty in the US...

Where is Tacitus to put a positive spin on this and tell us why it is good for the American people...

Cheers.

mikal (11/16/02; 22:28:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89784)
Elected?
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0211/S00115
YIKES: Dozens of NEW Voting Problems Reported
Saturday, 16 November 2002, 12:25 pm
Article: Talion.com
Think it doesn't apply to you? Salesmen for these voting machine companies are now busy in Europe, South America and yes, even Canada. The Election "Reform" Law now mandates up to $3.5 billion to convert the entire U.S. to the systems described below -- WITHOUT addressing these problems:
YIKES: Dozens of NEW Voting Problems Reported: Voting system integrity at stake
For Related Coverage see also…
http://www.VoteWatch.US
http://www.Talion.com/election-mistakes.html
http://scoop.co.nz/mason/features/?s=usacoup
USA: November 14, 2002 -- This election cycle wasn't as "glitch-free" as most news outlets reported, according to VoteWatch.us ( http://www.VoteWatch.US), an online repository created to flag voting problems in America's elections. Working with Bev Harris at http://www.Talion.com/election-mistakes.html, who has compiled a history of disturbing election errors, VoteWatch.us documented problems in the most recent U.S. election, with over 1200 posts that included widespread voting machine malfunctions, vote counts that didn't make sense or changed inexplicably, phantom precincts, and outright intimidation at the polling place.
The most troublesome development: "Ghost Precincts." With computerized vote tabulation, "unofficial" precincts have been included in totals in some areas, adding precincts that don't really exist. "Ghost precincts can provide a mechanism for vote-rigging, and at the very least, misrepresents where votes come from and makes it impossible for citizens to see how totals were calculated," says Harris.
Other concerns identified at VoteWatch.US: Current electronic voting machines were failing to produce a paper record that enabled: (i) voters to validate their vote, or (ii) precincts to perform a recount. Voters expressed a loss of confidence in the integrity of the system, and recounts became impossible when numbers didn't make sense or machines failed.
VoteWatch.US experienced its own share of problems during its inaugural election. Some participants posted nothing but spam, and for several hours the site had too much traffic to handle. Hertzberg created a system to transfer spam into its own section and powered up the technology to handle the load on busy election days. Over the next two years, Hertzberg says he plans to make VoteWatch.US the biggest repository of voting problems in the U.S., with the purpose of improving the integrity of our voting system.....For more visit link


mikal (11/16/02; 22:03:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 89783)
Voting in America Today
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0211/S00078.htm
 American Coup: Mid-Term Election Polls vs Actuals
Tuesday, 12 November 2002, 10:25 am
Article: Alastair Thompson
In the interests of further examining the question of whether the vote in some races in the U.S. midterm elections was fixed by electronic voting machines supplied by republican affiliated companies, Scoop has done some digging. How accurate were the pollsters in advance of the US mid-term elections?
Scoop's analysis shows that - according to the polls - the Republican Party experienced a pronounced last minute swing in its favour of between 4 and 16 points. Remarkably this last minute swing appears to have been concentrated in its effects in critical Senate races (Georgia and Minnesota) where it secured it's complete control of Congress.
Scoop has compared the results of final week polling in 19 races, with the actual results in those same races.
The full details of the Scoop analysis follow below. In summary Scoop found:
- 14 races showed a post opinion poll swing towards the Republican Party (by between 3 and 16 points);
- 2 races showed a post opinion poll swing towards the Democratic Party (by 2 and 4 points);
- In three races the pollsters were close to correct;
- The largest post opinion poll vote swings occurred in Minnesota and Georgia where pollsters got the final result wrong (see… Pollsters defend their surveys in wake of upsets for more coverage of this issue);
Comments:
- All the post polling swings in favour of the democratic party were within the margin of error.
- Several of the post polling swings in favour of the republican party were well outside the margin of error.
- In the states where the senate races were critical and close the swing was predominantly towards the Republicans, with the exceptions of Arkansas and Missouri. The level of post-poll swing in these races in favour of the Republican Party in each race were: North Carolina 3, Colorado 4, Georgia 9-12, Minnesota 8-11, Texas 3-11, New Hampshire 1.
- The state where the biggest upset occurred, Georgia, is also the state that ran its election with the most electronic voting machines.....Complete story at link above


mikal (11/16/02; 21:35:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89782)
Voting in today's USA
http://www.rense.com/general31.htm
Voting Machines and The Bamboozling Of America
By Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press.net
11-16-2
The fundamental problems presented by the growing use of insecure voting machines have been ignored by the U.S. mainstream media, which minimized the widespread failures of defective voting equipment during the recent election as having been caused by "glitches" and "gremlins."
"The vitality of America's democracy depends on the fairness and accuracy of America's elections," President George W. Bush said as he signed Help America Vote Act into law on October 29. Judging from the numerous reports from coast-to-coast of serious problems with new voting machines, the "vitality of America's democracy" appears to be in mortal danger.
The Help America Vote Act allocated $3.9 billion in federal money to the states over the next three years to buy electronic voting machines to replace paper ballot voting systems. While Bush called the bill "an important reform for the nation," in many states and counties where the new voting machines were used on November 5, serious problems cropped up during the voting and vote counting.
While local newspapers have generally been diligent in reporting the voting problems, the national media minimized the "irregularities" by attributing them to "glitches" and "gremlins."
The election fiasco during the 2000 presidential election in Florida provided the political impetus for the sweeping voting reform act. This year Floridians in two of the state's largest counties, Miami-Dade and Broward, used touch-screen voting machines made by Election Systems and Software (ES&S) of Omaha.
On Nov. 6, the mainstream media reported that the Florida elections had been "an unqualified success," according to David Host, a spokesman for the Florida secretary of state.
While Associated Press reported, "Some touch-screen voting machines sputtered and crashed," and "faulty programming" had "sidelined" others, the national media generally depicted the utterly unverifiable voting machines in a positive light.....
On Election Day, callers to a Florida radio talk show complained of "broken" ES&S Votronic touch-screen voting machines, according to the Drudge Report. "I voted for McBride, but the machine counted it as Bush. It did this three times. The polling worker finally said, 'We have to re-program this machine.' Another person was having the same trouble while I was there," a voter told Neil Rogers on his highly rated AM radio show.
"BAMBOOZLING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC"
"None of the major news networks are covering these problems," electronic voting expert Rebecca Mercuri told AFP. "Numerous and severe voting system problems occurred throughout Florida," Mercuri said, "but the news reporting of these problems was overshadowed. More attention was paid to the long lines of people waiting to vote or people talking about voting on the new machines."
"A large number of voters are not computer savvy," Mercuri told AFP, "People are being led to believe these machines are safe and secure, when they are not. They are bamboozling the American public."
Mercuri, a computer science professor at Bryn Mawr College, told AFP that "Democracy is down the tubes" if the trend to insecure electronic voting systems is not stopped. "The most vulnerable of these systems are the fully electronic touch-screen [Votronic] or Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) devices because of their lack of an independent, voter-verified audit trail," Mercuri said.
Mercuri has a comprehensive analysis of the dangers of electronic voting systems on her notablesoftware.com website.
Mercuri has testified before the U.S. House Science Committee regarding the need for the National Institute of Standards and Technologies (NIST) to establish criteria for the procurement and testing of election equipment.
A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE?
"The voting equipment vendors and certifying authorities have taken a 'trust us' stance," Mercuri said, although they are allowed to keep the machines and the computer code that runs the machines secret. In many cases, company officials operate the machines on Election Day. In Chicago. ES&S programmed the "control cards" that ran the Precinct Ballot Counter machines at their company offices during the 2000 presidential election.
Three of the largest voting machine vendors in the United States have convicted criminals in high positions, according to Mercuri. "Sequoia, ES&S, and Shoup all have top people that been convicted for bribery of election officials or insider trading," Mercuri told AFP, adding, "How can it not be a criminal enterprise?"
"Characterizing these serious problems as 'glitches' makes it seem like poor engineering and incompetent election system management is somehow acceptable to the American public," Mercuri says. "It's not. A massive recall of these inappropriate and defective devices must be started immediately."
Mercuri is concerned that electronic voting machines could be used to conceal massive election fraud.
"It is entirely possible that Florida and other states may smooth out their election day problems so that it appears that the voting systems are functioning properly, but votes could still be shifted or lost in small percentages, enough to affect the outcome of an election, within the self-auditing machines," Mercuri says.
Mercuri proposes a moratorium on the purchase of any new voting systems that do not provide, at minimum, a voter-verified, hand-recountable, physical (paper) ballot while appropriate laws, standards, and technologies are being developed to provide accurate, secure, reliable, and auditable voting systems.
In Florida and California former elections officials have recently been found to have had undisclosed ties with ES&S when they advised the state to buy voting equipment from the privately owned Omaha-based company......Complete story at link above...


Waverider (11/16/02; 21:26:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 89781)
Gold Dinar: An Economic and Strategic Response to Chaos
http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=5556&TagID=2
Snippit:
"Mounting concern around the world that the Bush Administration is madly threatening to drive the world into perpetual warfare, while doing nothing to address the global financial-economic collapse, has led to the introduction of a number of defensive measures by nations and groups of nations acting in concert. One such measure is the proposal for creation of a Gold Dinar, intended as a replacement for the dollar as the currency of trade among nations. With a war against Iraq looming on the horizon, and U.S. threats against Saudi Arabia escalating in the establishment's institutions and publications, it is increasingly probable that the Gold Dinar policy will be implemented in the near term, among certain Islamic nations at first, and potentially expanding to include non-Islamic nations.

Waverider: Interesting article - but check out the website, this is the first time I've come across it - scary!

steady (11/16/02; 19:43:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 89780)
hung fat &dr no are smiling!
http://www.minesite.com/archives/features_archive/2002/Nov-2002/chinese141102.htm
snipet:
Chinese Mock UK Gold Sales With An Inscrutable Smile.

The Chinese have a strong sense of humour. Only sometime is it apparent to Westerners, but a classic example is to be found on a Chinese website www.G9999.com whose name , presumably, reflects its interest in pure gold. This website has come out with a fascinating piece that portrays the Treasury and Chancellor Brown for the pig headed, politically motivated and inexperienced investors that they are. Just to recap for a moment. On July 6th 1999 the Treasury started selling 394.98 tonnes of UK gold assets in a series of auctions which were completed on the 5th March this year. The funds raised were reinvested in US $, yen and euro currencies and bonds.

The average price realized was US$274.98 /oz which, when compared with the current price of US$323/oz, gives a loss on the transaction of US$622.3 million. Unfortunately there seems to be no way of quantifying the loss on the paper currencies as the World Gold Council gave up trying to monitor the alternative investments. It is pretty safe to assume, however, that a further loss was made which would more than make up for any interest accrued.. This was hardly Brown's finest hour and it may come back to hit him smack between the eyes if current economic and political problems send gold into orbit. After all, that money could have been at least better spent on ensuring that British forces were well equipped before volunteering their services as quasi mercenaries to President Bush.



steady (11/16/02; 19:17:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89779)
dominoes in s.america
think the new Brazilian administration was watching what the IMF would do in regards to argentinas default? Think they are going to follow suite? I do. can jpm absorb such another large hit? free gold... open a fing mint allready! oh wait .. patience, will be rewarded !

Cavan Man (11/16/02; 17:33:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 89778)
Further, Belgian........
Japan Inc. is moving ahead with a USD$41 Billion dollar stimulus package according to an FT article this week. Good money after bad?

Gold N Rule (11/16/02; 17:18:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 89777)
Hey Golden Bear.....
I sure wish I could be Down Under, always wanted to go there and New Zealand.....people tell me Amsterdam's the place,
I'm tied down caring for my last living parent but if I really gotta go and hire someone I will, it's gonna be devastating...got a pet I'd have to leave behind too.

Dam these selfish B-stards!


Belgian (11/16/02; 17:12:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 89776)
On political will and critical mass.....
Japan, world's second biggest economy (GDP= 5 Trillion$) carrying an official debtberg of 160% of GDP and at the same time, having record high savings and for 3/4 of its wealth, dependant from exports exhanged for US$. Twelve years of stock market decline and a political establishment that needs to "nationalize" the biggest banks. Wow, what a situation !

What's wrong with Japan and/or the Japanese people ? Nothing ! They are simply saddled with an "impotent" political crocodile.

The situation is so desperate and "immobilism" is so paralyzing that something drastic, inevitably, must happen rather soon than later. A 180° turn in political will, after having slowly been acquiring the much needed critical mass.

I'm just painting this picture, so as to point, how and why, it are political decisions that are inducing drastic changes wich were not expected/desired and anticipated by the majority of the general public.

This present Japanese dead-lock situation is slowly spreading to the rest of the dollar block (the US) where it will be a less impotent, political establishment, that will cause drastic changes. The japanese situation has only 2 options : massive defaults or induction of Hyperinflation.
This same scenario is in the box for the dollar-zone, vibrating through Euroland and the rest of this globe.

When things get that bad that political action is completely paralysed or totally ineffective...very few moderate options are left for choice.

Silence has fallen on the japanese housewifes, accumulating their kilo Gold bars. But the general idea hasn't vanished.
A second, third,...wave of flight into Gold will materialize as soon as the impotent establishment is forced to take measures of scale and energy.

Give it some thoughts, before the storm.

a nation of one (11/16/02; 16:59:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 89775)
to: sector (11/16/02; 12:44:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 89766)

My concern is not security but liberty. Security cannot exist. But liberty can. Although liberty is sometimes suppressed, people ultimately must have it; and although security may be created, it is always temporary and to some extent a delusion. In matters of consequence it is morally wrong for any man to willingly subordinate himself to a person whose intelligence is lower than his own. It is partly for this reason that I cannot support a war against terror. And there is another: Waging a war on terror is as stupid as fighting a war to end dirty diapers. It cannot be won. If you want me to fight, come up with something that can be won. As long as human beings are capable of fear, there will always be some type of terror. Many assume the president can only be right. They say, "My country, right or wrong!" But how about saying instead, "Right, my country or not!" Because right is what has to win in the end. Some believe that all that matters is that a response be given, to 'stop evil.' But what really matters is that maybe America wouldn't be attacked if it wasn't such an ass. Killing 500,000 innocent Iraqi children, for instance, is not an act consistent with Christian belief, or with any moral concept. Actually, it is Satanic. Maybe if the U.S. straightened up its own act, it wouldn't need to ignore its own faults and lash out wildly at other nations in wrongful indignation.

Golden Bear (11/16/02; 16:56:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 89774)
Gold N Rule (msg#: 89773)
Hey GNR,

Now this guy is a patriot! I like reading what he has to say. It's amazing they haven't knocked him off yet...

BTW, I'm abroad, down under. But I'm afraid that this will be of little benefit, as our government may be starting to adopt the tactics of the Bush administration. I'm currently looking at government websites to look for what types of legislation are being proposed. Following the university shooting in Melbourne, the push is on to ban handguns even further than the tight controls we already have.

"Trust us, we're the government, we're here to help you..." yeah right!

I have recently acquired a second passport from the EU (being of southern european heritage) as another insurance policy, just in case...


Cheers.



Gold N Rule (11/16/02; 16:23:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 89773)
Golden Bear message#89769
http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul53.html
If you liked my former post you'll love this link!

Regards,
J.R.

Gold N Rule (11/16/02; 16:15:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 89772)
Golden Bear message#89769
Nice to know there's others out there like yourself that aren't just sleep-walking! The way things are going you either need a bunker or to relocate abroard!

ElGordo (11/16/02; 16:01:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 89771)
North Korea threatens missile test
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=RNKWZU5BZUEWECRBAE0CFEY?type=topnews&StoryID=1752086
TOKYO (Reuters) - North Korea on Saturday stepped up threats to resume missile tests, accusing Japan of breaking its own promises in an accord reached last month.

Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi had won the pledge to refrain from test-firing missiles from North Korean leader Kim Jong-il at September 17 summit where Kim also apologized for the abductions of Japanese citizens decades ago.

Tokyo and Pyongyang resumed talks on normalizing ties late last month, but initial negotiations left the two sides far apart on the key issues of Pyongyang's nuclear arms program and Tokyo's demand that the children of five Japanese abductees now visiting Japan be allowed to join them.

"There is no reason for the DPRK (North Korea) to show any longer magnanimity as regards the issue of missile test-fire as the Japanese side first backpedaled its commitment to redeem its past, a core point of the DPRK-Japan Pyongyang declaration, over the issue of kidnapping," the state-run Korean Central News Agency quoted a foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

Tensions in one of the last Cold War flash points have mounted since U.S. officials said last month that North Korea had admitted pursuing a nuclear arms development program in violation of a landmark 1994 agreement with Washington.

The United States, Japan, South Korea and the European Union agreed on Thursday to suspend vital fuel oil shipments to North Korea from December in response to its nuclear confession.

North Korea shocked Japan and other neighbors in August 1998 when it test-fired a missile that flew over Japan's main island of Honshu. It later said it would not carry out further testing until 2003 at the earliest.

Earlier this month, Pyongyang said it would reconsider the moratorium if talks with Tokyo failed to make progress.


CoBra(too) (11/16/02; 15:46:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 89770)
Carry Traders - Galore ...
Last weeks batch of economic news in the US and elsewhere were terrible - to say the least. PPI up 1.1% - an annualized 13.2%, combined with a furter drop in industrial production of 0.8% - was in fact negated by the advance of consumer sentiment rising to 85 from 80.6 on a monthly basis.

Great - Al has got his message out - the economy will be great as long as consumers keep spending and therefor we'll push further on that string and pro-actively cut the fed funds and discount rate 50 basis points. After all, we still got some 125 and 75 bp's respectively in the quiver.

Real rates are now in "japanese" negative territory, hurting the last 'soft patches' of US economy or better US production, the savers - retired or not - and will now forfeit the > 2 billion foreign investment needed on a daily basis to keep up the spending spree to save the global economy.

You just got to love the US consumer, like Atlas he's upholding the globe's economy on his shoulders - and rather going into more unserviceable debt - than to relax the burden.

A call beyond duty? - Or is it called by the spin masters, wanting to keep up the pretense of supply side 'Keynesian' economics forever? ... A sure recipe for destruction - even as the hegemonial paper printing standard outlives this day.

As "asset" deflation - in the sense of the only assets are financial - robbed the 401K boomer of his retirement boon and others of their income - the inflation of "real and hard" assets will take its toll on perception.

A dream, an impossible dream, kept alive by side shows of the same musical, where Don Quijote fights the windmills - of wrath! ... Only Sancho Al Panza seems to know his boss is fighting some extravaganza! - So he's lowering the barrier for the Lanza to combat the zero carry traders of the Banzai - or is it bonsai - now?

From the Cherry Carry, via gold to the global $-Reserve Currency Carry - Hail to Sir Alan, who made it possible!

As the final verse of an Oz war song goes - of course -comin' from a non-roo, what can u do, mate -

We stand aloof
they can't s..t
on the roof

the only place clean
in our latrine.

I'll better not sign here -
though below - got gold? cb2

Golden Bear (11/16/02; 15:27:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 89769)
Gold N Rule (msg#: 89767), a nation of one (msg#: 89762)
"...."HR 5710 gives the federal government new powers and increases federal expenditures, completely contradicting
what members were told about the bill. Furthermore, these new power grabs are being rushed through Congress
without giving members the ability to debate, or even properly study, this proposal. I must oppose this bill and urge
my colleagues to do the same."

---Rep. Ron Paul, M.D. AAPS member on the floor of the House 11/13/02


Problems with the bill included centralized database provisions, airport security, unchecked power to cabinet officials, extent
of the new bureaucracy, concentration of power in the executive branch, suspension of the rule that prohibits secret
advisory committee meetings, limited public access to information, and failure to address border security and immigration
issues, such as tracking foreign students...."
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the post Gold N Rule. Yes, these are the actions from a President and his henchmen who really feel for and care about the welfare of the people...

ANOO: very poignant observations... the actions of the government are more focused on creating panic and fear, and while the people are distracted by the constant fear of these threats to their safety, their liberties are being systematically destroyed right under their noses.

Those in power now only look to history to learn what was ineffective in the past regarding the gaining and keeping of power, so as to correct these errors, to ensure their power is not taken from them.

However, to do this, they will have to look over their shoulder constantly, and there will come a time when they will not be able to control everything... they will go into overwhelm and they will drop the ball. Hopefully the people will have awaken by this time to take advantage of the opportunity to take back their liberty...

silvergolong (11/16/02; 15:18:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 89768)
Comments on Silver
Wow too bad I'm so late to the discussion on this topic. Here are my two cents.

People can argue all they want about silver's monetary role today, but up until recently silver has always been "the poor man's gold". Formally speaking, silver ceased to be a monetary asset in the late 1800s when europe and the US went off the bimettalic standard. That happened for both political reasons (germans screwing over the french after the franco-prussian war) and monetary reasons (the world supply of silver went up thanks to the big strikes in nevada, and the effect of the paper Greenback in post-civil-war US).

That was a LONG time ago. Since then, the world population has increased FAR faster than the aboveground supply of silver. And now the below-ground supply of silver is in real distress. Never mind all the wonderful industrial and medical applications that silver has found in the last 100 years.

When the POG explodes, and there isn't NEARLY ENOUGH to go around, the "poor men" of the world (i.e. 98% of the world that isn't India) could easily turn to silver as a store of wealth. And they'll find that, relatively speaking, there isn't much of that around either. My SWAG is that we'll see a gold:silver price ratio between 10:1 and 5:1, all thanks to the demand from the "little guys" in the world.

That's one scenario. However, the "Euro" might displace silver as the "poor man's" store of wealth, creating a positive feedback loop on the POG as more and more people flee the dollar. But if that happened, the POS would still rise dramatically, as central banks without gold would attempt to use silver as a monetary reserve in order to compete with the Euro, and would start buying it furiously.

The bottom line is, there's only so much gold, and there's a lot of people on the planet, and those people must have a currency, and that currency must be backed by something. So silver will either be a direct monetary asset (i.e. silver coin) or an indirect one (currency backing for those unfortunate countries bereft of gold).

Silver's coming back, baby!! And maybe even bigger than gold!!

Gold N Rule (11/16/02; 12:45:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 89767)
Freedom May Be More Precious Than Gold Someday!
Forced Vaccinations, Invasion of Privacy etc......
1601 N. Tucson Blvd. Suite 9
Tucson, AZ 85716-3450
Phone: (800) 635-1196
Hotline: (800) 419-4777
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc.
A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Omnia pro aegroto


Homeland Security Bill Moves to Senate

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Concerns about bill multiplying as details are revealed
--Senators express concern about lack of debate
--"Politics is the mother of bureaucracy" – Sen. Byrd
--Tell Senators to wait for debate and pass the bill in sunshine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"HR 5710 gives the federal government new powers and increases federal expenditures, completely contradicting
what members were told about the bill. Furthermore, these new power grabs are being rushed through Congress
without giving members the ability to debate, or even properly study, this proposal. I must oppose this bill and urge
my colleagues to do the same."

---Rep. Ron Paul, M.D. AAPS member on the floor of the House 11/13/02
Read Entire Statement

CONCERNS ABOUT BILL MULTIPLYING

Wednesday night the House passed H.R. 5710, the Homeland Security Bill. The Senate is now debating it, and a vote is
expected within days – possibly as early as Friday.

Now that details of the House version are being made public, we've heard from a number of individuals and organizations
about their concerns about several provisions of this bill in addition to ours about smallpox countermeasures.

Problems with the bill included centralized database provisions, airport security, unchecked power to cabinet officials, extent
of the new bureaucracy, concentration of power in the executive branch, suspension of the rule that prohibits secret
advisory committee meetings, limited public access to information, and failure to address border security and immigration
issues, such as tracking foreign students.

The bottom line is that there are big problems with this bill. But the biggest problem may be that almost no one has read the
entire 484-page bill. The brand new legislation was dumped in Congress on Wednesday (with many new provisions) and
fast-tracked through the House in less than 24 hours. Rules were used to limit debate and amendments.

SENATORS EXPRESS CONCERN ABOUT LACK OF DEBATE

We'd like to tell you what the Senate bill says about the smallpox countermeasures and the powers to be granted to the
HHS Secretary – but there is no copy available to the public. (We finagled the House version on Wednesday from the
Rules Committee.) Staff members tell us that it is the same as the House version, but without a document in hand, we can't
comment on the specifics.

At this point we agree with Sen. Byrd who said on Thursday "We're making a huge mistake passing the bill at this
time…there has not been a single hearing." He expressed his concerns about the way the bill was being pushed through
Congress with little debate or discussion, adding, "If necessity is the mother of invention, then politics is the mother of
bureaucracy."

DELAY VOTE FOR HONEST DEBATE

Please tell your Senators to vote NO on the Homeland Security Bill. Instead, let's wait for a workable bill that also protects
our liberties. One that's debated and passed in the light of sunshine.

Contact your Senator
Contact the White House: president@whitehouse.gov
Read the House Bill

Other Links

Read Section on Countermeasures Against Smallpox - Adobe PDF Format
Read Entire Bill - Adobe PDF Format - Large File (870 KB)
William Safire on Homeland Security Bill
Ron Paul on Security Bill






sector (11/16/02; 12:44:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 89766)
@ a nation of one Inlight of the current "Spectacular Attack" warning...
...do you feel secure...safe?
Ukraine just fired their entire government today. Recall that Ukraine was the home of nuclear weapon production in the Former Soviet Union. Also the head of Ukraine's communist party "Announced" that there were 200 assembled nuclear weapons unaccounted for. Such a declaration could be interpreted as a surreptitious advertisement for sale of the warheads. In a disintegration country who would intervene? Especially if the "Dealer Commission" was in the millions per nuke.

And then we have the mystery #3 man from Al Qaeda, a physicist, no less, issuing to Al Jazerra, a litany of threats all of which make plausible outcomes. 7 Bombs, 7 cities etc.

After trillions in taxes for defense America appears to be...well... defenseless. The mystery man reveled in this fact saying "Aircraft carriers, space satellites and missiles would be useless in the coming war".

No wonder Former senator Rudman said last week that "There will be hell to pay" if another attack happens.

His demeanor and tone suggested he was not referring to election issues.




Gary Seven (11/16/02; 12:26:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 89765)
(No Subject)
Took delivery of another batch of the yellow metal from CPM yesterday. The service I received from CPM was first rate. Jonathon K. bent over backwards to solve all my niggling delivery problems.

I ripped open the package and fondled the coins in my hands, delighting in their heft and glow. I thought to myself, "Converted some currency into permanency. Now this is the way to save!" It's just not the same as staring at carbon squiggles on a bank statement. I suggest that everyone try it - saving the old-fashioned way.

If I may extract from Blurrmoon's post #89695:
"’In essence, the golden color we see is due to relativity,’ Balasubramanian said. With gold, the orbitals of electrons near the nucleus contract as those electrons gain mass. As the gaps between orbitals narrow, the atoms absorb light energy in the portion of the spectrum that our eyes see as gold."

Maybe that's why this particular metal holds such charm for all who gaze upon it. This stuff is SPECIAL!

G7



Old Yeller (11/16/02; 12:15:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89764)
Does modern US society sometimes feel eerily like society depicted in"1984 "
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:dD-f6JfITbsC:www.world-information.org/wio/news/992006691/992018876+CIA++++Operation%3BChaos&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

That's probably because it is.Furthermore,the Bush family
and their "associates" have a long history in news
management and public relations generated perceptions.

The truth is out there,do not look to the US government
to provide it.They have an agenda,that may or may not
include"the people".It depends on how you define that term.

I don't think "they" envy this particular freedom
all too much.

Mr Gresham (11/16/02; 11:49:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89763)
nation of one
Amen.

If it really were all to "protect and serve" the citizenry, they would do as you suggest. But somehow, the liar must confess his lie, can't quite look you in the eye and make the lie full enough (fireside chats from the great Paternal Father) to convince and deceive entirely, and so the hysteria is turned inward. Thank God, I guess, for that juvenile shortcoming?

The true anxiety of any ruler is the loss of internal control; external enemies can be a danger, but, since the defeats of Japan and Germany, and the assurance that Russia had reached its limit at Fulda Gap, those enemies have been more a useful convenience to the above-mentioned prior agenda. "If they didn't exist, we'd..."

a nation of one (11/16/02; 10:35:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89762)
'spectaculr attacks'

One thing alarms me, about our government expecting spectacular attacks. There has been no focus on how individuals can help themselves. The failure of our government to provide leadership in this is criminally negligent. Just a few simple facts about what anyone can do to protect himself, what the choices are, would simply be a basic humane action expected of any government. But ours isn't offering it. Instead, they run around in circles, jabbing and pointing, claiming they have to censor the Internet, tap phones, break into citizens' homes, detain whoever they want to against the law. It is the people in our own government who are destroying our freedoms, and the weapons they use are brutality and ignorance. They seek to shift the blame onto 'the enemy.' But there is more than enough reason to believe the people of the Middle East have told the truth, when they said they want to be left alone. And their attacks against the United States appear to have been exactly what they say they are: and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This is the law of retribution which any student of history quickly recognizes as that which has been practiced by Middle Easterners since the earliest historic times. Arabs are not notorious for leaving their homes and invading foreign countries. For that, the West is known. The problem in our nation today is not that our government does not know how to defeat terrorism; it is that those in positions of power now do not possess the maturity to understand and respect the world around them, or the intelligence to learn from history.

sourdough (11/16/02; 10:11:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 89761)
http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/contact/index.asp
http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/contact/index.asp
http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/contact/index.asp
SORRY CORRECT LINK

sourdough (11/16/02; 10:07:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 89760)
CANADIANS DUE YOUR DUTY
WWW.CANADIAN ALLIANCE.CA
Fellow Canadians please take the time (5 minutes) to go to the link above, select the desired recipient (question period?
Ask that questions be raised in the house as to the continued selling of our meagre gold reserves policy.
More importantly (in my mind) ask that inquiries be made to the Canada Pension Plan investment managers as to their holding of physical gold. They suffered a loss of over 2.5 billion. The U.S. Dollar must correct, this would reduce or wipe out any gains from u.s. investment. Continued foreign investment puts pressure on our dollar. Sometimes I wonder if this reflects on the dollar fluctuations we see for no reasonable explanation. They release news of foreign investment this week and the dollar crashes, are these related?
A wise investment in GOLD at this time by the CPP could recoups losses and maybe even "double" their investment capital in the next 12 months.
They should at the very least have a 10 % holding.
Purchase of physical gold from domestic producers is extremely beneficial to our economy and will also increase direct foreign investment into our markets , the exploration industry, spin offs, employment, etc.
WE ALL BELIEVE THAT CPP INVESTMENT IN GOLD IS THE WISEST INVESTMENT THEY COULD MAKE.
CPP management likes to state their time horizon is long term 20-25 years. Whether 20 years or 20 months, they MUST have gold holdings to protect ageing Canadians.
DUE YOUR DUTY. One of the ways is to raise the question with the opposition party.
Thank you.

Shapur (11/16/02; 09:02:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89759)
Re: Belgian ---foa and the 30yr bond---down to the 10yr
FOA was right, they killed the 30 as benchmark. The 10 year will be next. And this event, (perception), probably less than a year away considering how the next shock to the consumer will neutralize any real demand to stretch into debt. So Boats, RV'S, campers, ATVs, jet skis, harleys and some other high end luxury type vehicles will be strictly out of the consumer's budget. Do not stretch out for debt is already coming into mainstream conciousness. Take a trip to the local bookstore and see how the "personal finance--get out of debt" titles have increased relative to stock market titles--books on stocks are way down --soon to be in the bargain bins in a few years. Real Estate book titles are up now too--we shall see for how long.

But the consumer is already getting more alert toward debt. As the 10 year bond's bellweather status melts to the 7 or the 5--mortgage rates will be sub 4%, triggering a big refi boom. This will help pay down credit card debt and will also keep home equity debt down as less homeowners will want to take out equity. Better to have a total lower payment now versus taking out money to blow. Also lenders have already tightened on equity withdrawals and will continue to tighten restrictions as their balance sheets decay. So the consumer will be retiring cc debt, lowering the monthly mortgage payment and hanging on to whatever jobs they can. The money for speculation will dry up. Stock markets will channel at perpetually low levels (3000dow?) and interest rates will be low because the demand for money will not be there. Housing prices will generally fall.

The consumer will not be gravitating toward new homes or to larger homes. I think condos will do the best because they are smaller and people who must bail on bigger houses will scale down as will condo demand increase as more older people move from larger homes to more easier to manage places.

I see the consumer going to gold as a companion to cash. Probably then going to gold as it takes off in price as a speculation at or near the bottom of the economic trough. Lets say that inflation percentages start to really dwarf savings rates on money markets and short term CD's, how long will it take for some one with have a brain to read about gold out shining conservative type investments. Gold will eventually move---IT MUST. Right now is like the early 80's before the market broke out and finally caught a tailwind. Gold keeps hanging around the launch pad, soon it will be time to go up. If FOA and the others are correct at some very high prices projections on gold, then most people will be shut out of the gold market completely. Or they will be herded into buying a piece of a gold backed security that a wall street engineer will create.

The dollar will eventually get a face lift and a new golden hue--but I think that the key to managing this economy through this "soft spot" will be the completely unreal low interest rates on home loans. You may still lose value on your home through price---ie., a $350,000 home in year 2001 dollars will be worth $250,000 in year 2006 dollars, but at least you will have a nice greatroom to cry in, and you will be able to handle the lower payment in order to ride it out.

There are also many ways the government can assist the consumer with income tax relief, one time 401k jumbo withdrawals and other gimmicks to keep everyone going.
It will be very interesting to see how it all works out.
But the likelyhood of huge budget deficits, over spending on the war on terror, the war in iraq and wars to come and the money that will have to be created to keep the mortgage agencies and the banks afloat will be a non-stop choking paper wave.

Look for "War on Terror" Bonds to be on sale at a bank near you because uncle sam can't do it without you!!!!!!

Mr Gresham (11/16/02; 07:55:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 89758)
Shapur
Thanks for a fine, fine outline of what they must see the Plan to be to smooth out the bumps ahead. They'll use whatever tools they have, and the question is: How well will they work, as exogenous events hit (with more regularity?) This is the hoped-for workout, and keeping potential Defectors in line will be the challenge. I still need to read that LTCM book.

Any ol' way, it's good for gold. The mechanism of refloating debt will be to write a Fed check to the favored holder of the debt, or to the Wall Street player who will buy it on behalf of them. BUT -- What is the recipient of that first check (or the WS player with its other funds) going to put the money into next? If everything else is going down, or being propped up with such check-writing, WHY would you put your own good discretionary account funds into them?


Black Blade (11/16/02; 07:08:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 89757)
The case for gold hitting US$510
http://finance.canada.com/bin/story?StoryId=CpDxq0d8bmZCWmJa5&FQ=c%25AGE-CA%20&Type=&Heading=Search%20Results%20-%20age&BC=Search%20Results

Snippit:

John Ing looks forward to another prosperous year

John Ing, president of broker Maison Placements Canada Inc., Bay Street's most ardent admirer of gold, says the barbarous relic, which he concedes has mostly been a lousy investment for more than 20 years but which he now reckons is heading next for $375 an ounce from $320.70 now, and then to $510 some time in 2003. "In a world where value is being questioned -- as in equities -- gold has resurfaced as what it has historically been -- a store of value," Ing declares. And the prospect of a war in Iraq (we lunched before Saddam Hussein gave the green light to UN weapons inspectors) and its attendant risks can only enhance what is a good basic case for owning gold -- 10% of your portfolio for insurance purposes in a risky world. The twin U.S. deficits -- budget and trade -- make for a promising backdrop for gold, as has the falling U.S. dollar, which has given bullion a lift in the past year.


Black Blade: $510 an ounce sounds like a good start.



Black Blade (11/16/02; 06:22:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 89756)
Iraqi Violations

In an action U.S. officials consider a violation of a U.N. Security Council resolution, Iraq fired surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft guns at American and British warplanes patrolling a "no-fly" zone. It was the first coalition strike on Iraq since President Saddam Hussein's government accepted the Security Council resolution Wednesday that demanded he disarm and allow inspectors to search for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Under the resolution, a material breach must be reported to the Security Council for new debate and could be used as possible justification for U.S.-led military action to remove Saddam's government. A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the government considers the firing a material breach, but could not say whether or when American officials would raise the issue with the United Nations.

Coalition planes used precision-guided weapons to attack an air defense communications facility near An Najaf about 85 miles southeast of Baghdad, a Pentagon statement said. The strike happened at about 2:50 p.m. EST. There were strikes Sunday against two surface-to-air missile sites near Tallil, 175 miles southeast of Baghdad. The latest U.N. Security Council resolution, passed 15-0 on Nov. 8, prohibits Iraq from taking or threatening any hostile action against countries "taking action to uphold any council resolution." The United States and Britain say they established the no-fly zones to enforce Security Council resolutions calling on Saddam to end attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq and Shiite Muslims in the south.

Black Blade: Of course as a matter of the "terms of surrender", this is in itself a violation. In effect since the terms have been violated it could be argued that the "Persian Gulf War" or "Desert Storm" is technically still underway as the conditions defined in the terms of surrender have not been met and the Iraqis have not complied with repeated demands from coalition forces. In short, it could be argued that the allies and Iraq are still in a state of war.


Hipplebeck (11/16/02; 05:48:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89755)
seeing is believing?
http://www.heart7.net/mcf/arkin.htm
snip:
To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war
technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the
difference in a successful military operation or coup.

Hipplebeck (11/16/02; 05:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89754)
seeing is believing?
http://www2.bc.edu/~okeefew/349/rfppixels.htm
snip:
Haseltine believes video manipulation techniques will quickly be carried to their logical extreme: "I can predict with
absolute certainty," he says, "that one person sitting at a computer will be able to write a script, design characters, do
the lighting and wardrobe, do all of the acting and dialog, and post production, distribute it on a broadband network, do
all of this on a laptop and viewers won't know the difference."
(end snip)

We are rapidly coming to the point where there is no truth anymore. The perception of virtual reality and reality are merging. Can society exist when the truth can no longer be discerned?
The foundations of reality are quaking. Everything is in flux. Who can you trust?



Golden Bear (11/16/02; 05:19:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89753)
Iraq Violates UN Resolution...THIS IS A CROCK!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/flash/0,9223,488793,00.html
BB, the UN never sanctioned the No Fly Zones, they were ordered by the US. Therefore, Iraq has NOT violated the UN sanctions...

More US foreign policy propaganda...

Belgian (11/16/02; 05:18:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 89752)
@ Bound Spirit # 89729 (R.Arnolds)
Interesting post for the following reason :
The 10 yrs treasury yield has been maneuvered down from its 1994 highs of 8% and this decline (to 3,61%) is almost lasting 10 years (2004). What better evidence for increased and extreme, "Politization" of an already political economy.

Your question about who, if and when is going to capitulate is exactly the same question as : are we close to critical mass as to general politics standing with the back against the wall and dramatic policy-change is there to materialize ? Simplier : Yell, abandon ship and throw the dollar overboard and call the Gold-architects with their plans. The breaking point...the final reckoning...game over ?

Don't expect the public-consumer or the big corporations to decide/determine this abandonemend/capitulation. Both keep manning the economic/financial show up until "politics" drop the final curtain.

That's why FOA stated that after the withdrawel of the 30 yrs treasury, the 10 yrs are next in line if they (political rulers) decide that the show should go on. Funny how the US financial media even call their own reporting a : show !

Not the chairman, Sir Allan, has no clothes, but the entire US$-system as it was/is concepted, yesterday/today !
The continued IR-maneuver is evidence for the *gravity* of the, ongoing, systemic crisis. Hard times command extreme measures. And extreme they are !

The whole purpose of the political-maneuvering is to keep the economic actors as far away as possible from the intrinsic rot of the system. The present Goebellian war-propaganda and fear-mobilization (read BB) is indirect evidence for the existance of these political maneuvers.
Part of the Big Picture.

Thanks B.S. for bringing it up.



Shapur (11/16/02; 05:18:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89751)
RE: Bound Spirit's post from last night on Fed Operations targeting 10yr
The Fed has a lot of tools to use once fund rate policy proves to be useless, as Dr. Greenspan mentioned this week under direct testimony on the Hill. I believe that the 50 basis point cut already points to a gun out of bullets, but still useful for pounding nails.

The Fed will surely start moving toward other liquidity injecting methods that bouy consumer spending and therefore keep the government and corporate bond markets on life support. Limping along at historical low yields in Government and Corporate Bonds has already been done by Japan. If the Fed thinks of Japan as a model of sorts they could rationalize the sopping up of bonds by the Fed as a viable practice, combined with a healthy purging of sick corporations (unlike Japan). Japan won't admit corporate defeat, but the US can and will continue to do so. Let the Enrons go down, restore faith in Wall Street and cushion the fallout. This approach must be used as more and more foreign debt holders of US obligations cut back or stop purchasing US debt.

As far as the US consumer being the growth engine of last resort, that I think as a statement of fact is becoming a bit stale. I don't believe that anyone believes this anymore in the higher circles. How can this be counted on when the consumer is tapped out, in debt, no stock market money, no faith in wall street, and living in an overpriced home with little equity? The engine of growth just can't do it anymore without a towline. So way down the road the endgame will need to be played. So start at the end and work backwards to where we are today!

So endgame time, you need a reconstructive program of sorts. The Fed can work in concert with the White House and the newly formed RTC and the Fannie's and Freddie's to come up with a debt relief bailout plan that enables certain debtors to fail and then enable the next tier to get debt relief to limp along, and so forth. Lenders will let borrowers skip payments, welfare will be given out, as will be goverment jobs to those who need them, ala Homeland Security. The dollar will certainly need to be re-created based on something that the world can trust and American companies must continue to be competitive globally, so the new dollar must be priced somewhat below what other currencies trade at. There must be a new build-up of US manufacturing in order for the health of the job and labor markets to grow. That means some sort of trade agreements ala fast track that enable US products to be sold in foreign countries--and so forth and so on to a happy and now global recovery.

Between the endgame and the new fresh start, the Fed and the Government will have quite a firm hand on the tiller of the Country. The Fed will certainly manage interest rates and support the demand for Bonds. I expect yields to crater, they must. There will be probably at least 2 more huge periods of refi ahead of us: sub 4% 30 year rates, and then sub 2% 30 year mortgage rates. Housing will be helped at all costs as the dollar droops. Shocks to the system, like terror attacks, will create a floundering consumer at times which will lead to lower US stockmarkets and lower profit expectations. Lower Foreign bourses too. We all go down together until we hit bottom. Then it will be time to play the endgame scenarios. WAR is usually a companion of market bottoms. A lot of legislation of a finacially miraclous type gets passed under emergency conditions. President Bush will be the republican version of FDR--3 or more terms---why not? History repeats, though not exactly.

And then what about you and me, the little guy with some sort of brains sloshing around upstairs? I believe that Blackblade's footer advice is fitting. Be prepared for change. Get diverse job skills, get out of debt, have cash on hand (GOLD is money), build up your family (team). Food storage program and emergency preparedness will come in handy some day. And get in touch with your God. Without an anchor you are drift wood.

And keep a sense of Humor!!!!!! Its only a depression that is coming!

Black Blade (11/16/02; 05:05:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 89750)
Iraq Violates UN Resolution

Just over the wire. Iraqi forces fired on US and Brit planes over the "no-fly zone" with surface to air missiles and anti-aircraft guns today. This is in violation of the the new UN resolutions.

Somehow I didn't think that the "agreement" would hold up.

- Black Blade

Belgian (11/16/02; 02:51:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89749)
FOA msg # 77 : The walk with Cavan Man.....
It is difficult for us to define, in explanation form, * A NEW POLITICAL PERCEPTION *, as it evolves.
Especially with *OLD* Gold players, still presenting their Gold vieuws in a *** HAS BEEN CONTEXT ***.

The Drama is in the * POLITICAL GAME * and "that game" is what will determine (!!!) how soon and by how much the * REAL VALUE * of Gold is displayed.

No one can force a paper-market that has unlimited creation-potential.

We are looking to see if the * IMPACT OF POLITICAL CHANGE * is working the gold-derivative's-credibility, yet.

The euro versus dollar-political-struggle.

The open GOLD VALUE CALCULATIONS, by the ECB, proclaim their intention, to allow Gold to rise as a euro-enhancement. The ECB will allow Gold to go to the moon and everyone will love them for it.

The old Gold advocate (Sir Allan), from way back, that knows how to *use* Gold as a "system-saving" tool, when backed into a corner. They have reclassified (deep-storage) some of the American Gold for "use", later.

OK, far enough for these condensed, deep burning, POLITICAL sunbeams.
Let's back this up with actualities rather than with past, historical, political moves on Gold :
- The WA agreement as the topper. Soon to be renewed.
- Shangai Gold Exchange.
- Islamic Gold dinar.
- CB Gold(certificate) sales.
- Welteke / Duisenberg on Gold.
- Reclassification of US Gold.
- Russia/China's official gold reserves, made public.
- India's moves on Gold-trade.
- Euro-architects, visiting/counselling, candidates for new monetarian union (ME and FE).
- Iran/Iraq repatriation of Gold.
- ECB, quarterly mark to market of official Gold reserves.
- LBMA's presentation to the public.
- other ?

You may not be impressed by this list ? I am.
GOLD IS THE POLITICAL METAL PAR EXCELLENCE and politics are the absolute major determinant. It is against this political background that one should focus on the "relativity" of the gold-paper-contract, business.

That is A/FOA's greatest message !

The Gold advocate's virtue is to mobilize, today's anticipation, on the inevitable Big Change. Get ready, before *political will* on Gold has reached enough critical mass. Disarm, peacefully, those that obstruct, the formation of this critical mass. Gold advocates are Ladies and Gentlemen.

Nice WE to all.

Black Blade (11/16/02; 02:22:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 89748)
Saddam pays Gaddafi $3 billion to give his family safe haven in Libya
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-481908,00.html

Iraqi dictator plans escape route in face of US and British offensive

Snippit:

SADDAM HUSSEIN has made secret plans for his family and leading members of his regime to be given political asylum in Libya in the event of a war with America or a successful internal coup in Baghdad. The extraordinary steps taken by the Iraqi leader to provide an exit strategy for key relatives and associates, which includes paying $3.5 billion (£2.3 billion) into Libyan banks, provide the first evidence that Saddam is now facing up to the prospect of being toppled from power. Even as he makes public statements of defiance and vows to defend his country against an American invasion, The Times has learnt that Saddam's secret emissaries have been visiting Libya and Syria to ensure that there is an escape route for his family and top cronies. The deal with Tripoli does not include providing refuge for Saddam or for Uday, his eldest son. If either were to seek political asylum in Libya, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi would come under intense international pressure, particularly from Washington, to hand them over for war crimes.


Black Blade: Plan "B"? Secret Plan? I guess it's not a secret anymore. Ahhhh…. a father's love.



Black Blade (11/16/02; 02:08:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89747)
Al-Qaeda 'Chatter' Hits an All-Time High
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/14/204147.shtml

Snippit:

WASHINGTON – Justice Department officials confirmed Thursday that electronic intercepts of communications by suspected al-Qaeda operatives have recently hit their highest level ever. "We have never seen this high level of the so-called 'chatter' by al-Qaeda guys," said one senior law enforcement source. "There's more of this stuff than we've ever seen before." The confirmation of an increase in suspected al-Qaeda communications came just after U.S. intelligence officials said that a tape released Tuesday by an Arabic-language network was likely the voice of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and recorded in the past two weeks. "Let's say the NSA is focusing on 150 known members of al-Qaeda and these guys on a Thursday have 45 to 50 communications between them. The suddenly on Friday they hear 150 to 200 messages. That's what happened right before Sept. 11 and before the anniversary."


Black Blade: Yakkity Yak!!! Who needs Iraq, India-Pakistan, Russia-Chechnya, Israel-Palestine, etc. when there's al Qaeda and other terrorists.



Black Blade (11/16/02; 02:07:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89746)
Europeans Warn of Attacks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57037-2002Nov14.html
Intelligence Alerts Heighten Concern

Snippit:

BERLIN, Nov. 14 -- Normally circumspect European intelligence and law enforcement officials have issued a wave of stark warnings in the last two weeks in an echo of U.S. fears that another terrorist attack may be on the way, including the possibility that al Qaeda could employ chemical or other weapons of mass destruction against European targets. The statements -- by officials in Britain, Germany and France, as well as by the head of Interpol, the international law enforcement agency -- represent a breadth of concern that the continent has not experienced since immediately after the attacks in New York and at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, that killed more than 3,000 people and galvanized international efforts to combat terrorism.


Black Blade: The rumor is that an alert went out to Australia and New Zealand as well. The possible terrorist targets are the same listed for the U.S. The terrorists apparently have targeted all non-Muslims. "Interesting Times"



Black Blade (11/16/02; 02:06:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 89745)
FBI Warns of 'Spectacular Attacks'
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=542&e=1&u=/ap/20021115/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_threat

Snippit:

WASHINGTON (AP) - The FBI is warning that al-Qaida may be planning a "spectacular" terrorist attack intended to damage the U.S. economy and inflict large-scale casualties. The White House said Americans should remain vigilant, although it left the alert status unchanged. "Sources suggest al-Qaida may favor spectacular attacks that meet several criteria: High symbolic value, mass casualties, severe damage to the U.S. economy and maximum psychological trauma," says the alert, which was posted on the FBI's Web site early Friday after its existence was reported by The New York Times and The Associated Press. The highest priority targets remain within the aviation, petroleum and nuclear sectors, as well as significant national landmarks, the warning says.

Black Blade: So, al Qaeda is back in business.





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