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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/16/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 23:44:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61702)
Geez Gandy!
What are you doing? Are you feeding Spot "Puppy Uppers?" - You know the doctor ordered "Doggie Downers!"
Cheers!
- Black Blade
Gandalf the White
(9/16/01; 23:23:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61701)
OOPS!!! -- JUMP SPOT
GOLD 293.5 294.5 +6.5 05:21
Gandalf the White
(9/16/01; 23:21:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61700)
Jump SPOT !
http://www.thebulliondesk.com/
Spot GOLD BID 292.3 ASK 295 Change +5.3 at 05:18 GMT
<;-)
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 23:17:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61699)
Asian Markets Flattened
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
Asian markets are hammered tonight, though the Nikkei has rebounded slightly on expectations that the Japanese government was selling US paper just prior to the terrorist attacks and Japanese government intervention in the markets. It is suspected that the Japanese version of the PPT is hard at work tonight but it appears that they are having a tough time. Also the USD is crumbling in overnight markets.
Gandalf the White
(9/16/01; 23:14:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61698)
Jump SPOT ! -- Jump
Now SPOT is seen at $292.
Anyone want to bet on the COMEX close tomorrow ?
<;-)
goldquest
(9/16/01; 23:06:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61697)
Fed Swap Arrangements
http://www.federalreserve.gov/
All bases are covered! 30 billion swap with UK, 10 billion with Canada and 50 billion with the ECB! The U S Treasury printing press, must really be smoking tonight!
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 22:56:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61696)
RE: MarkeTalk
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001.html
I hear loud and clear. Solomon Weaver posted this link early this morning and I was reminded of it with your post. Like cops at the blood-splattered crime scene waving off spectators and saying "it's all right folks, nothing to see here." Now we hear cries of "Be patriotic! - don't sell!"
The "Bone Pile" will grow exponentially now as there was absolutely no positive news before this terrorist attack, and it is only much worse now as more airlines, banks, brokerages, insurance companies, etc. layoff to cut costs. Just wait until Insurance and Reinsurance companies sell stocks and bonds to get liquid in order to make good on claims. In a word - "GRIM"
- Black Blade
Gandalf the White
(9/16/01; 22:45:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 61695)
SPOT is now seen at $291.30
Most GOLD quote boards are somehow not working properly tonight !
<;-)
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 22:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61694)
"Working Groups on Financial Markets"
http://www.wallstreetwishlist.com/plungeprotection/1988/1988.html
See Link above -
Executive Order 12631: The Presiedent's "Working Group on Financial Markets" also known as the "Plunge Protection Team" - an organization that has the mandate to manipulate the US markets. If an individual or outside organization were to attempt this it would be illegal. - "It's Good to be King" - Mel Brooks
MarkeTalk
(9/16/01; 22:38:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61693)
Black Blade re: Airlines (message #61674)
The latest figure I heard tonight on television regarding the airline employee layoffs is 100,000. Continental Airlines will contribute 12,000 to that total. And Congress is planning on lending (giving?) $2.5 billion just to keep the planes flying.
And here's one to ponder. All this week at Centennial I got phone calls from panicky investors wanting to transfer their retirement plans in stocks (IRAs and 40lks) to gold IRAs. Most of the conversation went as follows: I have lost half my money in stocks. I don't want to lose the rest. Now we all know that most people (sheeple) will continue to listen to the Wall Street mantra of buying the dips and will end up penniless. I can envision throngs of once-wealthy (on paper) Americans now destitute and now ready to vote in a more virulent form of socialism (Scandanavian style), claiming that capitalism does not work. The truth is that Wall Street crony capitalism does not work but I doubt that most people will see the difference.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 22:37:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61692)
Fed to prop up Wall St - PPT!!!
http://www.observer.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,552535,00.html
Shadowy committee ready to pour billions into stock markets to avert shares meltdown
Snippit:
Special report: Terrorism in the US
The US Federal Reserve and Wall Street's powerful investment banks are preparing to spend billions of dollars to support the US stock market, which opens this week for the first time since last Tuesday's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
A secretive committee - the Working Group on Financial Markets, dubbed 'the plunge protection team' - includes bankers as well as representatives of the New York Stock Exchange, Nasdaq and the US Treasury. It is ready to co-ordinate intervention by the Federal Reserve on an unprecedented scale.
The Fed, supported by the banks, will buy equities from mutual funds and other institutional sellers if there is evidence of panic selling in the wake of last week's carnage. The authorities are determined to avert a worldwide slump in share prices like the crashes of 1987 or 1929. Investment banks and their broking subsidiaries are to block short-selling by speculators and hedge funds by making it hard for them to obtain prices on favourable terms.
Black Blade: No surprise that the PPT is called out to "RIG" the markets for tomorrow's open. Nothing like market manipulation. Could be a tough fight, but then they can just print paper faster than investors can sell.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 22:29:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61691)
Fed, Others May Lower Rates as Soon as Tomorrow to Calm Markets
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AO6UNdxYmRmVkLCBP
Snippit:
Washington, Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Global policy makers may lower interest rates and intervene to defend the dollar as soon as tomorrow to ensure Tuesday's terrorist attacks don't roil U.S. stocks or force a world recession, analysts said. ``Policy makers are on red alert to act,'' said Rory Robertson, an interest-rate strategist at Macquarie Equities Ltd, in New York. A Fed rate cut could come as soon at tomorrow, when U.S. stocks begin trading for the first time since the attack on the World Trade Center, some analysts said.
Central bankers may wait until after the New York Stock Exchange opens, James Paulsen, chief investment officer at Wells Capital Management in Minneapolis told the New York Times. Governments and central banks will take ``whatever action is necessary'' to prevent a slump in the major economies, U.K. Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown told the Sunday Times of London.
That may mean ``there will be a major concerted and coordinated effort to prop up the dollar this week,'' said David Jones, chief economist at Aubrey G. Lanston & Co.
Black Blade: An all out effort to RIG the market? Could be. The big question is how many investors will be fooled? From the looks of overnight market action the outlook is - "GRIM"
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 22:27:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61690)
& Contrary Investor's September offering
http://www.contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm
Fun to read...
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 22:24:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61689)
Alan Newman's view as of Aug. 21
http://www.cross-currents.net/charts.htm
Good read and good charts...
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 22:22:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61688)
New Rules For Wall Street
http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2001-91.txt
These are the new rules for Wall Street tomorrow. (link)
Galearis
(9/16/01; 21:48:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61687)
USD
currently down
Over 2%.
Good posts today by most. Again we see a healthy degree of measured and thoughtful responses to the current crisis.
Special regards to Mr. Gresham for his words today.
G.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 21:46:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61686)
Gunman kills Indian immigrant at gas station
http://www.economictimes.com/today/17worl25.htm
Snippit:
A GUNMAN pulled into a gas station parking lot and killed the owner, an Indian immigrant, then went to a second station and fired repeatedly through a window without hitting a clerk inside, police said. The man then went to a house, where he fired several shots.
Black Blade: Stupid products of public US education system can't tell a Sikh from an Arab.
Netking
(9/16/01; 20:51:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61685)
R Powell
Rich. this is pay day time for the POS, I can see no-thing to hold it back now, the "PPT sandcastle builders" have no wild cards left to play, there has been a sea change.
Cavan Man
(9/16/01; 20:12:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 61684)
R Powell
I heard Mr. Insana say earlier today that cell phones stocks will definitely go up and that this incident might very well lead to a resurgence in technology stocks due to the need for redundant systems etc., etc., etc.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the company I work for has a ban on travel through at least 9-21 and all CAR's (capital acquisition requests) are on indefinite hold. This is a large industrial company.
The markets might well hold their own but, can we be honest please? All bets are off and time will prove all things.
Cavan Man
(9/16/01; 20:08:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61683)
Financial Markets
The markets must be allowed to correct themselves; if not now, the worst will come later. 4-1-2002 will be a brave new world.
"Have Mercy on us O Lord according to Thy great Mercy".
Psalm 50
What more can be said?
Cavan Man
(9/16/01; 20:04:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61682)
Europe
http://www.drudgereport.com
Germans and Italians begging off?
R Powell
(9/16/01; 20:01:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61681)
An early start!
Sue Herrera, Maria and Ron Insana are already there and talking to the likes of Cramer and Kudlow. I wonder if they're going to be there all night?
Gold up three bucks.
Silver up three cents.
Nikkei down over 500.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 19:58:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61680)
Slaughter In Asia!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
Asian Markets are getting creamed tonight! Looks to get very ugly on the World's stock markets. Tomorrow should be interesting. We will see if the new rules on Wall Street will have any effect in rolling back the avalanche of sell orders at the NYSE open.
ROSEBUD99
(9/16/01; 19:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61679)
now I have heard it all
I came in too late to see who but CNN was quoting someone who said .... Paraphrasing here ..."we should buy stocks to show the terrorists their plan failed and too sell would be in effect aiding them." If that don't beat all. So if I sell then we are accomplices. TPTB must we very scared
Curious
(9/16/01; 19:11:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61678)
Are Islamic Religious Beliefs the real reason for the suicide terror attacks?
The whole chain of events this last week confuses and troubles me. Why do the high religious leaders in the Islam faith fail to denounce the suicide attacks as a means to go to instant heaven if this is not a part of their belief system? For example, the Catholic Church does not hesitate to denounce a bishop who gets out of line like the recent example where the Bishop was married against the wishes of the Church and excommunication was threatened if he did not regain his senses. How can the leaders of the Islamic Faith refuse to denounce these terrorists when the result could be war and destruction of their own people?
The terrorists in Palistine have been blowing themselves up for years to irritate and kill Israeli citizens and I am not aware of any outcry by their religious leaders that this is wrong.
Are the comments that suicide is against Islam a propaganda show to attempt to fool the public? I do not think so. I know a man who was born in Egypt, raised in the Islamic faith, moved to the United States, worked in the Pentagon for the U S military, converted to the Catholic faith and is now a Catholic Priest. He said suicide is against the principals of Islam. Are the leaders of Islam afraid of being killed if they speak out? Are the terrorists a tool of one or more mid east governments who are using the religious angle to confuse and demoralize Western governments?
A year ago we were looking at the battle between the dollar/Rockefeller camp and the euro/Rothchilds camps wondering which would prevail and what would be the ultimate impact on the value of gold and of the dollar. Now there is a third player, the mideast terrorist camp operating under the guise of religious extremists that does not accept the values of the other two camps. There is also the cabal, the illuminati, the ultra rich, the committee of 300, the owners of the big banks, and other similar groups that may be interconnected with ties to the other groups in an effort to advance their agendas. Then there are the oil interests in the United States and in the mid eastern countries. They want high prices but not too high so that the world economy goes into recession and reduces their profits.
Is this all part of the effort to bring about the New World Order of one government for all people? We hear the stories that the bankers like war since they can loan money created out of nothing to both sides and earn interest on the amount due from both sides. Was this a plot to destabilize the US economy so the crash could be blamed on forces beyond their control? Was the comex gold and silver gone before the WTC collapsed knowing that it could be weeks or months before anyone could get into the vaults to see how much was there? Who gains most from the events of this past week? Was the Coup album cover published in July showing both towers on fire on the Art Bell website based on advance knowledge or just a coincidence? Many mysteries and few solid answers.
Comments welcome from the esteemed posters on this site. The more angles considered, the more questions become apparent. The answers to these issues would be very beneficial to our leaders in Washington before this country goes to war so that we do not attack the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
KarenSue
(9/16/01; 19:10:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 61677)
Belgian Re: your post # 61670
Sir, you say
"I only want to discuss the Gold-related aspects taken out of the different evolving facts/thoughts and trends. For globalization, it is the dollar-aspect of it. And at present, I'm trying to come to terms with what is to be understood under dollar-colonialization. And this as a complete free thinker with intellectual honesty as only priority."
End of Quote
______________________
I would be inclined to let you off the hook but – As I tried to communicate in my last post # 61639, horizontal interaction is not an option and "intellectual honesty" should make that very clear. The Collectivists and the Globalists are not separate entities. We are dealing with an entity, not entities.
The point is that "dollarization" or "dollar-colonialization" has to do with tyranny and that tyranny is not a horizontal, but rather, a vertical action. The action is inspired by the highest levels of world central banking powers. First we must have dollarization. The time will come for de-dollarization, or should we say "Euroization".
Forget this idea of horizontal action and less hegemonic dominance. The nature of the beast precludes such wishful thinking. One might as well say, "What we need is a kinder and gentler government." or "What we need is Hitler that can be trusted in negotiations." or "Please if you must remove my clothing could you at least stop short of raping me." If one were to be raped and impregnated thereby, she would not be just a little bit pregnant. She must either deliver or abort in order to terminate pregnancy.
Please, if your are going to force the fiat dollar down my throat, could you give me a little time to get used to the idea, so that I can give my consent. (Tongue in cheek)
You only want to discuss the gold related aspects of dollarization? Then why do you bring up your discomfort with the vertical thrust of dollarization? You do so because you are intellectually honest and you cannot ignore the reality of the present hegemony. Take heart, the hegemony will soon shift to the continent of Europe.
I am appalled by hegemony as an acceptable alternative to co-existing nations. I know that pragmatists would disagree. Neville Chamberland was a pragmatist, an eternal optimist and a fool who played into Hitler's hand. I heard Neville say to Hilter, (somewhere in the recesses of my mind) "Sir, what we must have is, "more horizontal content, with less dominance and hegemony."
Do not take my remarks to indicate that I do not consider you to be, in my opinion, among the highest of posters on USAGOLD, in regards intellect and honesty.
Can you not see my point?
Only me
KS
Gandalf the White
(9/16/01; 19:07:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61676)
US$ taking a beating !
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DXY0&v=s
Dollar Index Cash (NYBOT:DXY0)
Last trade 112.03 Change -2.12 (-1.86%)
Open 112.38 Previous Close 114.15
High 112.33 Low 112.02
===
<;-)
R Powell
(9/16/01; 19:00:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61675)
Gold up $3.50 Silver up .03
http://www.lind-waldock.com
They are trading in Sydney and will soon be open in Hong Kong. The equity markets that are open are down and down substantially.
What is open tomorrow and when can be found at Lind-Waldocks home page.
Rich
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 18:23:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61674)
Airlines Brace for Worsening Crisis
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010916/business_attack_airlines_dc_4.html
Snippit:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. airlines further slashed scheduled services and weighed deeper job cuts on Sunday ahead of urgent meetings with the Bush administration where they will seek a federal bailout for an industry hobbled by last week's terror attacks.
Black Blade: Tens of thousands are expected to be cast upon the ever-growing? Bone Pile." In a word - "GRIM"
BTW, the patriotic thing to do is accumulate Gold! Those who don't are the ones not taking personal responsibility for their own welfare. They just might end up as leeches on those who did. Making a profit unpatriotic? I didn't see a lot of tears shed for the thousands of miners, oil workers, timber, steel, and agriculture workers when they lost their jobs, homes, families, etc. when self-righteous foreign and domestic government interests weighed heavy on these industries.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 18:10:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61673)
RE: Netking - World Markets
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
I expect to see this accelerate throughout the night. On Wall Street is should be remembered that the market is "RIGGED" with special rules, so the losses may not be so severe. Many brokerages are limit orders only and companies can buy back shares without shareholder/SEC approval, etc. It is going to be "Interesting." I suspect that short sales will not be allowed. Gold should open for trading now in Japan as there appears to be no Gold trading in Australia.
Netking
(9/16/01; 18:01:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61672)
Shares hit . . . . hard . . .
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
The first of the Australasian markets is open & down %5.90 in NZ, the ASX opens in 2 minutes, things do not look good for those wanting a settled day on Wall Street. - Netking
mhchuck
(9/16/01; 17:49:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61671)
The end of a horrible week.
MK, as gold holders, we know you describe us accurately, but gold must be vilified since it is apparently the enemy of Capitalism. Therefore I don't expect any change in the mainstream media's treatment of gold or its advocates. The Cheryl Strauss Einhorn piece is just a continuation of the assault. I was figuratively kicked again yesterday as noted below.
I shudder to think of the consequences I now face as a gold holder should the price rise. I face the prospect of being thought of as a vulture feeding on carrion. Hopefully the Cabal can hold tight and spare me this disgrace. Gold to me has always been ideology, hence my disdain for the banking system. If profit was ever my prime motive it slipped into the background long ago. Gold at "any" price would only be a hollow victory if it weren't reinstated as money. In the past few years everyone who I have engaged in conversation about "gold as money" tells me it has been "replaced." It's that simple, "replaced." A few others have said, "it's just a commodity." I don't know one person who admits owning any, although it has been a small sample of people. I still think they haven't a clue.
I have experienced so much grief and mental anguish being a gold holder/advocate that sometimes I wish I had never seen or heard of gold. For instance, people who know me can't help but smile when the subject of gold comes up; in fact they go out of their way to bring it up. Someone actually said to me yesterday, "I wonder why the terrorists didn't crash into Fort Knox?" I fell for it and said, "Because there's probably no gold there." Then a while back my neighbor came over with her two young daughters, and I was going to renew some magazine subscriptions through their school drive. We got to chit chatting about things and investing came up. I said, "the monetary system being what it is that I was basically in gold." "Goooold," she repeated in a somewhat irritated voice, as she squinched her face and gave me a look like I was from the far side of the galaxy. I said, Laura, let me see, I'll take "Organic Gardening," "Home Theater," and "PC World."
Maybe I am too harsh in my criticism of the FED in this time of danger. It doesn't mean I'm Anti-American or Anti-Western Civilization. The crisis is upon us and it must be resolved before anything can be changed in either Foreign or Monetary policy. (Not that I expect anything ever will.) Thankfully, I won't be here fifty years from now to live in the full manifestation of the New World Order (three scary words) announced by the first President Bush in 1990-91. Perhaps when he gave his "Thousand points of light speech" he was referring to all those future fires to be caused by the bombing raids over the next decade? Science fiction has shown us some grim visions of the future, but real life always seems to surpass fiction. Only gold as money would change my dark forecast? I hope you readers see a brighter future than I, and even more, I hope you are correct.
mhchuck
Belgian
(9/16/01; 17:09:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61670)
@ KarendSue
No, I don't disagree with you at all. I'm aware that the word "globalization" is -abused- with different taints. And not the least by "collectivists" . I have been using this word -collectivists-, regulary, on purpose.
What I'm trying to say is, that a solution is possible, to avoid useless innocent suffering. The magnitude/scale of the recent atrocity is another step in the 30 years of terrorism history, wich seems to be forgotten (conviently)in all public debates.
I only want to discuss the Gold-related aspects taken out of the different evolving facts/thoughts and trends. For globalization, it is the dollar-aspect of it. And at present, I'm trying to come to terms with what is to be understood under dollar-colonialization. And this as a complete free thinker with intellectual honesty as only priority. Forgive me if I misused words, without having given them my correct definition of it. This leads to misinterpretation and confusion.
In the ongoing european public debates on the tragedy...more and more fundamental aspects of the past 30 years of history are popping up. And again, where the debates are hesitantly stopping...you can feel by intuition that there will be fundamental changes for the better or worse. And the arabic/moslim side of the equation is under historic revieuw. Europ had its wars and had enough of it.
Crimes must be judged and brought to justice, but without blind and escalating revenge. The tragedy must not serve as an opportunity, for so many, to make a hidden-agenda-move or serve unjust (personal/national) causes.
KarenSue, thanks for reacting and make some time for more of your posting interventions. Night to all.
Netking
(9/16/01; 16:51:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61669)
Max Rabbitz
Max (61663) Is Christ (& Western Christians) weak Sir? No. . . . they need to remember that after laying his life down like no other, Christ rose again from the dead(more evidence on this than on Cesar existence), this would have taken tremendous "intestinal fortitude" an event no other "religious leader" has ever emulated. . . many are proud to be counted among the number.
apollo's golden chariot
(9/16/01; 16:43:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61668)
Slingshot repsonse
Perhaps, slingshot. But I doubt it. They do not love us but they have too much in common with us historically. Both France and US 18th century democratic republics. They saved us during the Revolution; we saved them in WWI and WWII.
What happened to the old Stasi and their foreign contacts? Who absorbed the foreign intelligence capabilties of this group? Could they have provided linkages developed during the Soviet era to Middle Eastern radical groups? I do not know.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 16:36:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61667)
Bond Market
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,175000,00.html
and the reason for the Fed's money injections -- financial engineering as "infrastructure repair" --
I'm almost sympathizing with these guys!
My weird analogy: I'm playing World Grandmaster chess with a guy (arrogant as h**l, gave me endless, ah, guff when he whupped me awhile back), now I'm winning, and he starts having a heart attack. I better let him off the hook and resume when he's recovered, but he insists on playing on. What am I supposed to do?
slingshot
(9/16/01; 16:34:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 61666)
Apollo's Golden Chariot Msg# 61662
Your last paragraph in your post suggested a major player in Euroland standing in the shadows to champion there cause. Could this be France? My reasons.
1 France has refuse permission to fly over their country to strike terrorist camps in Libiya.
2 Sympathic to Arab causes. (For what reasons?)
3 Harbored Khomenei before his return to Iran
4 French dislike for Americans.
I think even though part of Nato that they will not give much support except lip service.
Because of the influence France has in the Arab sphere could they used the Arab Nations to further a Euroland cause,
and in effect have some one else do the dirty work?
This is a Dan Rather approach. Just speculation.
Slingshot
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 16:19:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61665)
Be vew-wy vew-wy quiet!
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=181758
especially if you survive the downslide with some wealth intact...
Apollo: Yes, yes. You show this to be within the range of possibilities, and strategic capability is the first question in locating suspects. The cross-check of that list is the question: "Who benefits?" So we'll see as we go forward, won't we?
I often get back to recalling the Donald Sutherland speech in JFK, where he details how it only takes a silence and a looking away by those in one authority, to launch a coup on those in another position. That subtlety is hard to capture in most of what we question, but of course it is probably present in great measure at the heights of the financial world, too, including central banking.
And of course, there is always a patsy, and a false trail. I'll bet we're capable of watching _either_ story develop, without needing the certainty we'll probably never get.
Tam
(9/16/01; 16:08:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61664)
Kevin Klombies is looking for $350 gold soon.
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/klombies/klombies091501.html
Conclusion
The short to medium term trend for gold is actually quite positive. We can see through the bond ( relative strength of U.S. bonds ) and equity market ( gradual build up of speculative premia in the gold mining shares ) that there has been a bit of a tail wind behind the gold sector. On the other hand, the $280-81 level represents significant resistance for gold and won't be broken, we suspect, until after the U.S. dollar stops its ascent.
As it happens, we went positive on the XAU last November and recently went negative on the U.S. dollar- for a variety of reasons. If we are correct with this latter view then there is every chance that gold will successfully push through $280-81. That opens up the possibility of a strong, and potentially very quick, move up to the $350 level. . .
(look at the bottom of the page, you can send in your email address and get a free two week trial) You need it now more than ever.
Max Rabbitz
(9/16/01; 16:01:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61663)
One more thing
Many Muslims, not just radical either, believe Islam is superior to Christianity because of the Christians belief in turning the other cheek. Many believe Christians are too soft. Although they claim Christ as a respected Prophet the image of Christ on the cross is not well respected. Power is respected, weakness is not.
apollo's golden chariot
(9/16/01; 16:00:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61662)
Gresham Response
61660
Sir Gresham:
What is very apparent in this country is the very sophisticated nature of the recent attack on New York. Bin Laden and Co are capable of car bombings and the like. This attack was well orchestrated, effectively targeted on a building with major vulnerabilities and done without the use of traditional weaponry. This is not, IMO, the planning of disgruntled Islamic freedom fighters. It was a professional hit that resonated on at least 2 levels. From a Middle Eastern perspective it was a symbolic attack on Western capitalism. From a Euroland perspective it is a signal of a coming challenge to the dollar and the precipitator of crisis during the month's (Sept-Oct)of historical market tightness.
The list of great international espionage agencies is not long. The number of such organizations capable of developing such a diabolically ingenuous plan is perhaps, six or seven countries. I doubt it was Britain or Israel. so who is left? Certainly Another and FOA has outlined a set of international ambitions suggestive of motive among the prime movers of Euroland.
The ideal pawns in this case are aggrieved militants who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause. Such a willingness to self sacrifice is further bolstered if there is an awareness that powerful forces stand in the background to support and eventually openly champion your cause.
Max Rabbitz
(9/16/01; 15:46:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61661)
Worse to come?
http://www.ddolan.com/update.html
A few depressing snips:
"As many terrorism experts have already reported, I was told that Islamic cells have been quietly preparing for an
internal attack upon New York (and also another key target, Washington) for many years. This confirms what I learned
from an FBI source in the mid-90's. Many regional Muslims understand that Osama Bin Laden merely acts as an agent for several Islamic states who all hate America, especially Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan and Sudan, along with militant groups in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and elsewhere in the sprawling Muslim world. They are convinced that he possesses several small nuclear "suitcase bombs" that were put together by the Soviet KGB. These are very low level bombs compared to what America and several other countries deploy in their vast nuclear arsenals. However, they are perfect for achieving the Islamic militant's goal of striking surreptitiously at America's economic and political center--and thus reducing the rest of the country, and indeed much of the world, to frantic emotional and economic panic and chaos............."
"I was told that Islamic nations believe that they would suffer very minimal retribution for secretly sponsoring such a devastating blow on America, precisely because of high US moral standards that would preclude massive strikes at
mere suspect states. Thus, the classic Islamic method of focusing on clandestine terror cells that only answer to their immediate superiors--whose members do not even themselves know who is ultimately behind their devious
actions--would basically succeed in dealing a huge blow to the United States without suffering much harm in return.
(This is possibly best illustrated in miniature by the Pan Am terrorist attack that ended with the jet crashing into
Scotland over 12 years ago, leaving nearly 300 people dead. The deadly assault has basically gone unanswered until
this day since the ultimate sponsors have never been clearly pinpointed)........."
Max: I'm not so sure about the Biblical prohesy at the end but it must be made crystal clear to all of these States that we will utterly destroy them for 1000 years if they use weapons of mass destruction on us. And we must do it. Every last blade of grass.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 15:32:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61660)
Apollo: Guilt by association?
OK, I'll bite. When FOA comes back, he's going to have quite a starting place for discussion. This is the first time in his posting that events have surpassed the level of urgency that he has been forecasting.
If I were a Middle East financial/oil/political person, I would know of the fragility and laxness of America's defense against a terrorist attack, and the inevitability of such a week as we've just passed through. Warning gold buyers about "crisis" without specifying this particular source would just seem polite to me coming from Another or any other foreign commentator.
The dollar, gold carry, and financial Bubbles were already in place independently of problems with Middle East enemies, and will pop someday under any of several provocations. Merely pointing this out to Americans is an attempt to point out another inevitability, and not a stance of advocacy for either popping the bubbles, or the dislocations they will cause. "You got yourselves into this one, friends..." would be a gentle summation of their analysis, don't you think?
Apollo:"What is further disturbing..." You didn't say what was disturbing to you in the first paragraphs, at least in terms of trying to draw out some deliberate strategy, before the European "connection" you then leap to.
Your alertness to behind-the-scenes strategies is a contribution to our "watching together" here. But what we have also been trying to figure out is WHY the Europeans, and Germans in particular of late, have seemed to be bending over backwards to sustain the dollar as a system stabilizer while they get the Euro online. I don't think they would consider themselves out of the woods yet enough to try something like this. In fact, I think they've been ultra-conservative given the 30 years of work they've invested into this, and I think they would want a long glide into currency supremacy more than a sudden reversal.
OCICBW ;)
Leigh
(9/16/01; 15:32:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 61659)
Russia Knew, Citizens Warned, of Financial "Attack" on U.S.
http://www.newsmax.com
The background of this article will be familiar to us all. It's about the Russia's recent warnings about a sharp drop in the dollar based on an unexpected event.
Netking
(9/16/01; 15:09:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61658)
Sec. of defense does not rule out nukes as last resort
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash19.htm
Snippet:
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld this morning refused to rule out the use of nuclear weapons in America's coming battle with terrorists.
Appearing on ABC's THIS WEEK, Rumsfeld was asked if a possible tactical nuclear strike would be used.
"Can we rule out the use of nuclear weapons?" questioned ABC's Sam Donaldson.
RUMSFELD: You know, that subject--we have an amazing accomplishment that's been achieved on the part of human beings. We've had this unbelievably powerful weapon, nuclear weapons, since what 55 years now plus, and it's not been fired in anger since 1945. That's an amazing accomplishment. I think it reflects a sensitivity on the part of successive presidents that they ought to find as many other ways to deal with problems as is possible . . . "
apollo's golden chariot
(9/16/01; 14:48:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61657)
(No Subject)
Appolos's Golden Chariot
For several years Another and a Friend of Another have been explaining the background to the rise of the Euro. One important aspect of this that was explicitly stressed in earlier posts by Another was a desire to replace the dollar as the numeraire of international oil settlements. Europe currently spends about $1.5 trillion annually on its Middle Eastern imports. Another of Another's and FOA's main points related to the vulnerability of dollar denominated gold derivative contracts and US bullion banking and how that would eventually lead to hyperinflation in the US.
The recent dastardly terrorist attacks in New York may contribute to the outcomes that Another and FOA have long predicted on this board. Among the casualties are as yet an uncounted number of market professionals who worked at 5 World Trade Center, the site of the Comex floor and a major locus of paper and physical gold trading. As we all know access to the Comex warehouse has been temporarily blocked due to the destruction of much of the trade center. The attack will also induce some overseas capital to be repatriated to its homeland further pressuring the US financial markets. While the natural response of adding massive liquidity to a system under stress last week, is exactly the presciption that FOA has suggested will lead to dollar devaluation relative to the Euro.
What is further disturbing is the connections between the terrorists and cells in Hamburg, Bochum and Karlsruhe. Is it through some indirect and clandestine support of terrorist actions in the US that Euroland hopes to draw closer to Middle Eastern nations upset about US support for Israel? Look the other way while terrorists hatch their diabolical plans while winking to Middle Eastern regimes they hope will embrace the Euro currency? Create financial crisis in the dollar market while quietly pushing the Euro forward in international markets.
If so, this is a dangerous game. He who would sow such dragon's teeth will certainly reap woe.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 14:24:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61656)
Tolerance & Inclusiveness
Let's say I want to start a Holy War against the USA, a country with a track record of clamping down on non-white and foreign minorities in times of crisis.
If I could just get panicky Americans to start abusing some of those minority neighbors, especially ones who had grown up in the USA (the children) and knew their way around pretty well. No awkward accents at the airports of car rental counters...
Let America create for me a fifth column within...only need a few, a tiny percentage of embittered young men with bad memories of the last "pogrom".
On the other hand, most Americans, including Arab-Americans and Moslem Americans are desperately trying to live a good life here. Treated correctly, they will work toward our interests in the Islamic world almost immediately. (By contrast, much cultural outreach to Vietnam did not follow until a new generation of Vietnamese-Americans had grown up here, and is really only starting now.)
I would guess that, if we started now, every Arab- and Islamic-American family could be invited into our homes, to dinner, or whatever, by the end of this year. I'm personally embarrassed to cite a Pakistani family I've been close to from work for many years, and who have been actively asking to meet my family for several years now. "Just too busy to get around to it...(till now?)"
Yes, I know. This does not address the ones already declared at war with us. This is like the strategy on meeting guerilla war in Vietnam that tried to come from Chairman Mao's "the people are the sea in which the revolutionary fighter swims like a fish," but was badly applied.
The question before us is: How do you drain the sea to isolate the fighter? Why not do it by peaceful and more effective means, drawing on the strengths we already have in place, while we still can? Be smart, not stupid. 59,000 names on a wall in Washington, D.C. testify against stupidity.
uponroof
(9/16/01; 14:16:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61655)
Jim Puplava's Newshour in Real Audio.
http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm
Check out 'The Perfect Storm' website. Lots of current events info as filtered through the mind of Mr Puplava.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 14:13:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61654)
Oil price could soar above $40 a barrel
http://www.observer.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,552536,00.html
Special report: Terrorism in the US
Snippit:
Crude oil prices could soar through $40 a barrel if the Middle East crisis escalates into widespread military reprisals for the terrorist attacks on the United States, warn market experts. Brokers said major oil companies entered the market to make purchases, fearing they could be caught short by immediate US action, while traders indicated their extreme nervousness by taking long positions in case President George Bush launched military reprisals this weekend.
Black Blade: That's a mild projection. It could go north of $60.00/bbl if war breaks out in the ME.
uponroof
(9/16/01; 14:11:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61653)
Rogue Wave
http://www.financialsense.com/series2/rogue.htm
Speaking of prophetic tidbits.....
"There will come a day unlike any other day, an event unlike any other event and a crisis unlike any other crisis. It will emerge out of nowhere at a time no one expects. It will be an event that no one anticipates - a crisis that experts didn't foresee. It will be an exogenous event - a rogue wave."
Jim Puplava, 10/26/00
'The Perfect Storm' author Jim Puplava examines derivatives and the effect of 'rougue waves' on them.
Sorry if this was recently reposted here. It got a lot of coverage when it first came out back in October of 2000.
miner49er
(9/16/01; 13:56:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61652)
SierraMadre @ 61638 - China
You know, I was thinking the same thing last night. I personally think that China would wait until we had actually committed ourselves to some theater of action, and were actually engaged. Until then China is quite happy just using the threat of action against Taiwan as a fairly powerful policy weapon.
They would probably keep the status quo unless the opportunity were so clear that they could accomplish the mission with little overhead. China is in no hurry. China does not want to obliterate the infrastructure of Taiwan if not necessary. Taiwan is most useful to China for its economic engine, as is Hong Kong. China is not afraid of deploying the overhead, but why do it if you don't have to.
If China were too hasty in a move against Taiwan, the Taiwanese would put up a hearty struggle. If China bides its time, and sees the US at some point fully committed to something else, Taiwan may pragmatically see the writing on the wall, i.e., no outside help, and capitulate. China would gladly arrange terms similar to Hong Kong, and Taiwan would gladly accept.
Publicly, now that the act is consummated, the Taiwan markets may well see a temporary bounce as the fear of how the takeover eventually happens is no longer discounted. Privately, old scores would be settled as opposition forces are quietly led away (or escaped) never to be heard from again.
Also, I think the lack of reporting of such an event in the US news media would be very conspicuous.
cheers,
miner
uponroof
(9/16/01; 13:50:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 61651)
Prophetic words from Maddog
A lot of talk about the buried gold.....
This is a bit from my friend Maddog at GE. He posted this over a year ago and I saved it. I thought it prophetic in a way given the current circumstances at the WTC. There is indeed some symbolisim in this tragedy regarding the paper financial empire and the "Barbarous relic."
"So the "Barbarous relic" derided by all the great and
the good, sits not outside the room forlorn and
forgotten but right at the epicenter of the global
financial mirage. Like some mythical colossus chained in
the cellars to the very foundations. While it's jailers
party the night away on their ill-gotten gains, all the
while terrified out of their minds that should it
escape, their house of cards will be like so much chaff
in the wind."
uponroof
(9/16/01; 13:35:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61650)
auspec......the buried AU and AG
Good afternoon,
Heard a report that the street had collapsed under the weight of the rubble. This is not good as the subfloors under and around the towers are probably badly damaged and still very dangerous.
Depending on the severity, utilities may have been ruptured, etc. etc. The safety of the underground metals will depend on the vault's strength. If the vault was compromised, I'm guessing the worst case scenario may involve the stock needing refinment and weighing again.
Not a crisis but also very inconvenient to manipulators who thrive on concealment of actual amounts and who are known to report numbers that favor their agenda.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 13:18:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61649)
Stratfor: No Easy Battle
http://www.stratfor.com/home/0109142100.htm
It's great to read stuff from people who are used to thinking in macro strategic-political terms. Kind of "de-compresses" this week into manageable historical overview for me... how are you all doing this morning? Getting better, I hope. Michael, that was so well-stated -- thank you for pouring heart and soul into this.
Cavan Man
(9/16/01; 12:54:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61648)
Reading the Dridge tabloid.....
I see Mssrs. Rumsfield (sp) and McCain are not ruling out the use of nukes as in all options are open and on the table.
How 'bout you PH in LA. Nukes good for you? Anybody else?
Netking
(9/16/01; 12:50:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61647)
Auspec
Sir Auspec, Yes you would expect all the Au & Ag to be recovered. If the rubble is many, many metres thick(reported approx 100?)you would expect this to take a number of months however, given also the slow speed at which they must work given the nature of the grim task.
auspec
(9/16/01; 12:36:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61646)
Sol/Silver
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/chapman091701pv.html
Chapman reports, as follows, that the Comex silver may be spread around and not just under WTC:
"Last week, Comex reported that it held 792,170 ounces of gold in inventory with a value of about $220 million and 102 million ounces of silver worth $430 million. Some of the silver may be stored at other locations. Among the other dealers that clear trades through Comex are Chase Manhattan bank NA, a unit of J.P. Morgan Chase and Co.; and HSBC Holding Plc's Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corp South." END
Comment: My amature understanding is that the foundation to the WTC is still mostly intact. Should this not mean that the underground floors have much less damage, and once accessed, recovery of metals should be more straightforward than, say a 'mining operation'?
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 12:28:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61645)
Pakistan to demand bin Laden handover
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.america.under.attack/
Snippit:
(CNN) -- Pakistan's government was preparing Sunday to demand that Afghanistan's ruling Taliban hand over suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden within three days. CNN has learned that Pakistan will threaten massive military action led by the United States unless Kabul complies. U.S. President George W. Bush has characterized bin Laden as the "prime suspect" in Tuesday's hijacking attacks that left thousands of people dead or missing, toppled New York's World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon.
Black Blade: So it goes. Norman Mineta, Transportation Secretary just announced several changes in public transportation and security measures for energy pipelines. These are more costs that will be passed along to the US public during a deepening Recession. When the US attacks in the ME, watch the POO and POG. We live in "Interesting Times."
megatron
(9/16/01; 12:16:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61644)
Unbelievable!Fantastic!
MK/USAGOLD; that last post was surperb. Please save it in the archives, I'll want to read it again,and again. YOU MUST HAVE IT PRINTED in the media 'somewhere. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. You seem like a pretty darn good guy.
megatron
(9/16/01; 12:09:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61643)
this is sooo stupid
If everyone followed that MORONIC advice NO ONE WOULD SELL because that would not be PATRIOTIC. SO WHO WOULD BE ABLE TO BUY?????????????? If there are NO SELLERS there can be NO BUYERS!!!!!????!!!!! COULD THIS BE THE DUMBEST, UN THOUGHT OUT STATEMENT I"VE EVER HEARD???? Maggotts like LArry Kramer will be the ones who are PROFITING by being SELLERS? to the "PATRIOTS" who are buying!! Maybe the gov't should stop all sell orders, and deem them "unpatriotic"
LAdies and Gentlemen of the esteemed forum:
That particular statement and line of thinking is, in my opinion, the most utterly moronic, .... stupid......microcyphallic thing I have ever heard. BAR NONE.
Tam
(9/16/01; 11:44:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61642)
How it all looks from where I'm standing. (this is a repost I got in email)
http://www.321gold.com/911/091601howitalllooks.html
I've been hearing a lot of talk about bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage.What else can we do?
Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we have the belly to do what must be done. And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there.
So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
uponroof
(9/16/01; 11:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61641)
Latin American Central Banks....
will be adopting something comparable to the European Central Bank's '1999 Washington Agreement'. In an effort to stabilize gold prices, strengthen gold assets, and help in the developement of new mining projects they are meeting in La Paz, Bolivia to draft an agreement.
From 'The International Forcaster':
Central Bank of Venezuela (BCV) authorities are meeting with counterparts across Latin American in an effort to limit the sale of national gold reserves in an effort to stabilize prices. BCV official Laurent Michel is quoted as saying that central bankers gathered at the 4th International Reserves meeting in La Paz (Bolivia) are about to apply a 1999 agreement under which 14 central banks with 47% of the world's official gold reserves will restrict sales to strengthen gold investments and the development of new mining projects in the Latin American region.
Just after the announcement of the ECB '1999 Washington Agreement' gold rose to 340 an ounce in a matter of days. The Latin Central Banks do not carry as much weight as the ECB, but are still very influential in market making.
More fuel on the fire under POG
USAGOLD
(9/16/01; 11:33:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61640)
sourdough. . . .
First of all, congratulations on your Fifth Horseman call (bin Laden) from the 1999 Fifth Horseman Contest. The underlying intent of those contests was to lead people to think in terms of the most basic and fundamental factors that could not only affect our portfolios but our lives. The image of a dark Fifth Horseman was meant to induce posters to think about the gravity of its presence, to take its imposition in all seriousness, and to get people to prepare for it. By digging into the depths of our own psyches, I hoped that we could instruct each other, as well as clarify our own fears. Of all the Fifth Horseman frankly, I considered a massive terroist attack down the list in terms of likelihood. Obviously, I, and a lot of others, were wrong. Your post is proof that the contest served its purpose. Would it be possible for you to re-post it for the benefit of all?
As for the question of guilt with respect to gold ownership, I must tell you that I have had to deal with that question most of my life (for obvious reasons), and it is not easy at times like this. How does a widow feel when the insurance agent hands her a large settlement check on the death of her husband? How do heirs feel upon receiving a large sum upon the death of a loved one? How does the defense industry investor feel about his or her investment when the missiles are in the air and both military personnel and civilians are dying in a conflict? How does the oil investor feel when OPEC cuts supplies, the price soars, and he or she profits at the expense of ordinary Americans paying higher heating oil and gasoline prices? How do dollar investors feel when they realize that U.S. currency hegemony is responsible for their on-going profits, at the expense of smaller and less-advanced economies? I could go on and perhaps others would like to add their own examples, but I think we all get the general idea here.
Over the past several days, we have not had a single gold investor, and I personally talked to a very large number, who said they were buying gold to profit from what happened last week or what might be coming down the road. In each instance, the investor (who offered his or her reasons for buying gold) said they were doing so to protect their overall portfolios against potential problems yet to be ascertained. There is an important distinction there which I think needs to be taken into consideration.
We have a right, and I would say the duty, to protect our family's well-being in whatever way we feel necessary given our interpretation of events -- within the law of course and the standard rules of human discourse. There is nothing wrong with doing that. In fact it's expected of us. Beyond personal considerations, there is much we can do as citizens and neighbors in behalf of our country. How many gold owners have marched in parades over the weekend? How many gold owners have hung flags in front of their houses? How many have made donations? Gold ownership cannot and should not be linked to a question of patriotism. Where does it say that gold ownership is at odds with the goals and aspirations of our country? For that matter, where does it say that buying stocks is synomous with patriotism?
A fiat dollar has been the decision of our current leadership stretching back in series of laws and regulations going back to 1933. Because we oppose that decision, does that make us any less American than those who erected the system? I think not. To the contrary, I would simply say our opponents' political agenda has simply won the day. It doesn't mean it will win the day in the future. And in that future time, if there is a gold component implemented with the currency (as it already has been in Europe), would those who oppose that implementation be called "traitors", otherwise demonized and marched off to the camps? Once again, I think not.
I would say that gold advocacy could very well be at the heart of a clear sense of what this country has been, is now and what it should be in the future. It says that the "individual" has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and if his or her sense of that concept militates ownership of an asset detached from the monetary system called "gold," this does not characterize this same individual's sense of community. I know more gold owners than any of you and I can tell you without equivocation that these are some of the most decent, far-sighted and concerned in our country. I think that one of the great surprises to those who have been taught to ridicule gold ownership is the kind of person who posts at USAGOLD. When they read what's posted here, they find out for the most part, the individual gold owner is 180 degrees from what they've been led to believe by gold's opponents -- primarily in the press.
Not only are gold owners some of the most concerned members of our society -- whether or not we are in a crisis -- but some of its most fundamentally decent and articulate. And that shouldn't surprise anyone since the gold owners of America are also our physicians and dentists, our attorneys, our CPAs, our business owners and even our clergy. Let those who demonize the gold owner know that they also demonize the very people who make this society work. That's the great hidden injustice of the press' criticism of the gold owner, and its the injustice that most gold owners know all too well -- and feel the sting from.
Beyond this defense of the gold owner, no responsible gold brokerage would tell its clientele to put the entirety of their savings into gold. However, a prudent diversification into gold remains one of the most important steps an individual with assets to protect can take not just in light of the most recent horrible events, but for any number of reasons having to do with monetary regression, political instability, and financial systemic risk. I commented earlier in the week that the attack on the World Trade Center was an attack on the innocence of America. We will no longer believe that "bad things cannot happen to us." The idea of perpetual and unassailable American safety and comfort was challenged perhaps beyond the point of no return. I believe that the extreme concern will ameliorate over time. We will surely come out of this as a country, but we will come out of it a much more cautious nation. That will probably translate into market action in the weeks to come, and its hard to see it coming as a positive for the stock and bond markets. I personally wonder if its reasonable to think that patriotism can be manifested through a stock investment, but we will see. Whether or not it does, gold ownership may be something to keep as your hole card. We do not have to wear gold ownership on our sleeves; we simply have to have it stored safely and secretly nearby. Who we tell about it is our business and no one else's. From there, like everyone else, we go on with our lives. . . forever now diminished by the week's horrible, iconographic events.
KarenSue
(9/16/01; 11:21:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61639)
Belgian Re: your post # 61631
Sir you say:
"Globalization*, needs more horizontal content, with less dominance and hegemony..."
End of quote
__________________________
Sir, you are among my favorite posters, however, I must take exception with the above statement. Please accept what I offer below as an opinion only and in no way should you consider it a personal attack on you and your good and wholesome mind.
Of course I might be unfair to assume that you mean the same thing by the use of "globalization", as do I. Let me explain:
Globalization is a three pronged attack directed by Fabian Socialists against those like myself, who consider any form of socialism to be incompatible with individual freedom. Today Fabian Socialists do not shy away from their new label, "Globalists" though the older label "Fabian Socialists" is rejected out of hand.
So, what do I mean by Globalization or Globalism? I refer to the concerted effort of socialistic forces involved in an attempt to gradually establish a One-World Government, a One-World Economic System, and a One-World Religious system. If this be the goal, then it follows that the dissolution of existing sovereignties, economies and religions must to pass.
Many people just like me stand for individual and national sovereignties that choose to make their own economic decisions and choose to worship or not worship as they see fit. I freely admit that we of this persuasion are in the great minority today. I understand that we have already lost this war, however we now find our satisfaction in either of two mutually exclusive conditions, liberty and death, as opposed to the gradual and certain tyranny of Globalism. Even when wars are lost battles continue because the terms of surrender are not acceptable.
Now back to why I take exception to your statement. Assuming the accuracy of my contention as to what in meant by Globalization, I must submit, that dominance and hegemony, being the final goal, cannot and will not be lessened without abandonment of the goal. Abandonment of the goal will not happen, ergo, lessening of dominance will not happen. We are looking vertical control in the face. Horizontal interaction is not an option.
I have much more to say on this but it will have to wait. Time constrains. I do expect a full-scale attack from those who would disagree with this, my opinion.
Only me
KS
Sierra Madre
(9/16/01; 11:02:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61638)
By the way....
What about China? Am I mistaken or is there a lot of silence in that direction?
Well, as the Dance of Death is about to begin, may I suggest that readers keep an eye on China?
With the whole attention of the US directed towards Afghanistan and Osama, the alleged author of the recent horror, and a large part of US armed forces tied up in Central Asia, now would seem an ideal time to:
Invade Taiwan with little or not opposition.
Just a thought.
Sierra
Old Yeller
(9/16/01; 10:17:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61637)
Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
Should really be reading the US gold forum,as well as doing a little snooping through the rest of the library,here.
To ignore,as she consistently does,gold's importance and history as it relates to monetary matters is puzzling.Granted,that subject has been a side issue for the financial media(funny,that)in the last few years,however the gold sector has been the best performer on the exchanges for quite a while now.Not to mention gold's call option status on covert and not so covert,politically motivated debasement of the reserve currency.As if that's not going to happen now,on this part of the trail.
Talk about seeing in two dimensions.Hey,Cheryl;tune into USAGOLD,you'll be glad you did.
Belgian
(9/16/01; 09:55:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61636)
@ Invisible hand
Circuit breakers and Gold-Trading : How much (%) of total trade is left today, to be done by individuals ? Today it is the battle between *stock-movers* and *stock-holders* !
They are both staring at each other to see, who is going to do what ! Holders only want to hold enterprises that are undervalued in function of realistic future profit projections. Movers are now only busy with protecting their positions and executing the "management" orders from the paper-printers. The circuit breakers lost their possible, positive, psychological impact on the public individuals.
The circuit is broken, only, to call for more liquidity = credit availability with backing from the paper printers.
Gold : If there should be too much physical Gold demand from the general public...the following strategy might be used : shoot POG up, fast and substantial, and when the buying dries up, bring it down, dramatically, in order to disgust all safe heaven seekers and prevent continious buying pressure. This means, defending the 350$/ounce dam !
The general public is totally out of power. They have too much common sense ! We are "lived" to an increasing extend.
sourdough
(9/16/01; 09:45:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61635)
Is gold investment "un American"
Is Gold mining not a North American industry?
Do not most of the Gold mining companies base, operate and trade in North America?
Is Gold Mining not capital intensive? Do they not purchase the trucks, the cats, the heavy industrial equipment from the North American manufacturing sector?
Does the retail sector not provide jobs and profits for North American companies through Gold jewellery sales.
Does gold exploration not provide jobs in North America?
The cooks, the geologists, the heicoptor and airplane pilots. The food sales, camp housing, fuel, etc.?
If Gold rises will investment and capital not flow to the North American mining industry and benefit the economy?
Put a portion of your investment portfolio into the gold industry and/or gold itself.
AND DON`T LET THE BANKERS MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY!
They need a "tune up".
Tam
(9/16/01; 09:15:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61634)
Straight talk on Mining by Dr Keith Barron
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/barron/barron091601.html
This is a must read article about mining in general. Dr Barron sees a need to educate investors in the basics of mining and this is the first article. He's very good but the article is a bit long.
While last week has shown the reason physical metal is such a vital part of any investor's portfolio, gold mining shares should be considered. Dr Barron takes the mystery out of the techno-babble so common in the industry.
sourdough
(9/16/01; 09:03:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61633)
The 5% rule
Unfortunately my choice for the "5th horsemen contest" back in April 99 appears to be proving correct. "osama bin laden"
While it may be the "right thing" to support the market buy not sell, it may also be the right thing for the public to return to the time tested (yet forgotten) portfolio investment policy of 5% gold portfolio insurance.
If things were not to work out in the future, the dollar is cashed in by the world, the more gold in North American hands the better.Any financial advisor (whether just out of diapers or not),that does not recommend that protection, is not worth his salt.
If the government no longer "has it", one could also argue it is up to the ordinary citizen to make sure gold assets are still in American hands.
One can get an image of the citizens of Afghanistan,Pakistan,India'stampeding to the gold markets to buy those grams of metal that could mean all the difference for their own familys.
India and Pakistan have been at each others throats for years. The are both nuclear capable. What I fear most in this call for war on terrorism is the possibility to use it as an excuse to war on neighbouring terrorist factions and escalating this into all out conflict.
What of the moslem populations of the world, the ordinary citizens of Indonesia, Mindinao etc. etc. What if they see this as an attack on Islam.What will they do with any dollars.
5% gold "North American Insurance"
LeSin
(9/16/01; 05:48:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61632)
Comex/Gold/Bin Ladin/USA Gov/ Fraud - Mozel's Thoughts
@ Most Interesting Views of Mozel
Date: Sun Sep 16 2001 00:50
mozel (@Denial) ID#350273:
Copyright © 2000 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Neil Cavuto said the gold and silver is gone from the vaults. I heard him. For how long has Comex been fraudulently reporting ounces ? There is no commodity exchange gold and silver market in the USA today. Comex, if it opens for gold and silver "trading" is opening for derivatives trading on literally no foundation except perceptions.
The "surprise" attack on the WTC shows incompetence or treacherous corruption at the highest levels of the United States Government. The FAA has turned American airports into prisons, invaded passenger privacy, violated civil liberties and rights of property, and financially crippled or destroyed the airlines without securing either the planes or the passengers from well known threats. It has failed. The FBI had a month's advance notice that an associate of the Bin Laden network was seeking training to fly a big jet. It even arrested him after receiving a tip from the flight school. The government has simply failed to secure our rights at every turn. And now it is aggrandizing itself by infringing further on those rights and liberties it exists to secure when it cannot even protect our primal right to life. Why has Congress not scheduled hearings and called the FAA on the carpet ? Why has Congress not scheduled hearings and called the FBI and CIA to answer ? Is our government acting accountable ?
This reeks. But you ain't smelled nothin' yet, I think. It is possible to be perfectly comfortable with American government just so long as you do not consider fraud to be a crime. The people that re-elected Clinton showed just how ingrained acceptance of fraud for the norm as become in Americans.
But, I think the American Establishment has lost touch, not only with the people and the Constitution, but with Reality and this makes it very dangerous to the nation. It has become so intent on circumventing the Constitution and aggrandizing the power of the political elite and well heeled and connected and so full of itself for its cleverness in concealing what it is about from the people that it is unaware of its own vulnerablity to people who are far more adept at government by force and fraud. That portion of the globe from which radical islamic "terror" emerges is in large part the territory of the Ottoman Empire and there is no population more inured to government by terror than the population of that most barbaric of military government empires
Belgian
(9/16/01; 05:26:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61631)
Worried...
Anxious about retaliation >>> revenge >>> confrontation, to compensate for atrocities, committed to innocent people.
Escalation of violence, without attempts to solve the problems that cause and feed this deathly spirals.
A lot of "emotional-intelligence", will be needed to manage us *ALL* through the coming, very difficult, transition.
Today, there are too many analogies with dramatic events of the past. This new kind of terror is much more devasting and humiliating to all parties concerned. *Globalization*, needs more horizontal content, with less dominance and hegemony. It needs it #now# before we start driving the polarization to its extremes.
Let us hope that some courageous-positive attitudes appear on the horizon of this human tragedies. A better world !
Netking
(9/16/01; 04:36:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61630)
Rumours of war . . .
http://debka.com/
First Ground Forces of US Operation Vs Bin Laden Land Early Saturday in Pakistan (Vanguard Are Units of US 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions).
Britain Runs Paratroop-Commando Airlift to Oman.
Turkish Forces Are Poised on Iraqi Frontier For Thrust into Choman Valley of Iraqi Kurdistan . . .
The Invisible Hand
(9/16/01; 03:54:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61629)
Circuit breakers and gold
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010915/us/attacks_wall_street_1.html
This from the the link:
Analysts also pointed out that the market has other safeguards to keep it from falling too sharply - the circuit breakers that halt trading after the Dow falls 1,100 points, 2,150 points and 3,250 points.
My question:
Gold starts trading at 8:30, will it stop trading before or after the 9:30 Wall Street open? Suppose the circuit breakers come into action, has this any influence on gold trading?
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 03:40:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61628)
Black Blade
Oo-oo-oo, that smell ("the reek of fear and panic "), can't you smell that smell? (bad Lynyrd Skynyrd song, but timely in a junked-up economy)
Is what you're trying to say that perhaps the Empire Has No Clothes?
The shock is in the crassness of the leap. "Honor the dead! Buy something for America!"
Financial forums like this have had some reticence in discussing the ups and downs of money matters in the wake of the tragic deaths of 5000 people. The question of a "decent interval" as life must resume, and the future concerns us all, in differing ways. I thought decency had been pretty much self-policing until now.
But here is a group of propagandists not only abandoning the honoring of the dead, but attempting to enlist their memory into keeping the stock/consumer Bubble alive "because it is the essence of being American." Excu-u-u-u-u-use me! They sound like the smarmy characters Dan Aykroyd could have done in his early SNL days.
Yeeesh! (Another favorite New Yorkism.)
As Simply Me suggested, "Follow the money." Or ask, for everyone who buys something (like stocks) next week, just WHO will be selling it to them? Who are they, and might they have anything to do with articles like these? Big HMMMMMM...
G'night, bro...(hey, it's therapy, all...)
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 03:16:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61627)
Netking, Simply Me, Solomon
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
Simply Me -- Your idea of time compression is one I'd like to keep in front of me as events move. In the past, I've thought of USA vs Roman Empire as maybe a 100-year vs. 800-year compression.
In the shorter run, the Depression to WWII compression might be ahead of us, especially since that is the Economics For Dummies answer that .Gov "learned" the last time around. "Troubled by that rundown, no growth, depression feeling; is that's what's getting you down, Bunky? Well, try a little War Tonic!"
Not to mention the Wag the Dog PR benefit (Clinton imitating Hollywood tried that), and also getting near Daddy's 90% war ratings. (However, I do have the impression of Bush, and Powell, as judicious on this so far. That's why I want public pressure on them to be for doing the right thing, not the quick thing. They're taking our pulse right NOW!)
Thanks for bringing Eisenhower to our remembrance. He chose his departing speech as President to warn us not about external threat, but about those within our borders, supported by our own tax dollars.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. "
That was 1961! Gee, it's a good thing we paid attention to Ike and didn't let THAT happen! (Big "DUH" here.)
We had Nostradamus making the rounds here a few days ago, but for my money, nobody hit a prophecy on the head better than Ike on the way out. The M.I.C. is alive and well today and skimming its money from everything from toilet seats to attack helicopters to space "defense" lifetime employment (and profit) programs.
Do we get to help name the baby, as you, like StradMaster, inform us of the arrival? Or do we rename you, Simply (Grand)Ma?
Solomon: I think we'll have to rename you "Columbo" after that last. In matching the current crisis to the prior state of the markets, you keep on thinking of "just one more question." Very astute, with humor, irony, and giving us something to "watch together" in days ahead.
Netking:
Yes, a "bailout" and I think FOA has pointed us this way. Close out the paper positions with (devalued) cash, and everybody go their way pretending they really did a "gold" trade. Yeah, right. All further trading in physical, so that these institutions don't look too clownish running alongside with a separated paper price.
I'd guess that the Greenspan "call" includes covering at least the first $50 of a gold spike, and then after that it's "physical to the moon" (or at least $600). This must comfort them quite a bit, having something in their pocket that's not reflected in the public price. Keep luring in the longs and taking their money. Insurance, plus. (So they upped their bets, probably beyond the coverage of the "insurance" they're counting on.)
You have to wonder about the guesswork that went into the JPM/Chase merger. At what size might "too big to fail" turn into "too big to save"? I think the Fed would do in effect what FDIC and FSLIC have done: meld the failed bank into one with a stronger balance sheet, kick in some cash, and eat the bad deals.
But it's hard to see how even $100 billion injections will liquefy an exponentially-larger version of LTCM in an overall market freeze-up. $100 trillion in derivs, mostly interest-rate related. Fed feels in control of that, but they must sweat the longer-term stuff; that market getting flaky, as FOA pointed to some links about once, then said no more.(?)
The benefit they have going for them is that the public does not comprehend Idea Numero Uno of what these money movements are about. And that the FedGov can be enlisted to pledge future taxpayer revenues (called bonds) to back the appearance of recovery from some of these idiocies. Called "buying time", then a "workout", with everyone "taking a haircut" to stay in the game in some form, after pocketing the big bucks through the 90s.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 03:02:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61626)
Rally Around Economy, as Well as Flag, Buy Something
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34378,00.html
Snippit:
Americans have shown how generous we are in recent days. Now there is one more thing we can do. Just as we rally around the flag, we can rally around the market that made us what we are. We can spend money. In a memo to employees earlier this week, Ellen Beswick, Editor and Publisher of Virginia-based Intelligence Press, Inc., raised the rallying cry. She beseeched her colleagues to take "the one extremely powerful action that any American can take right now to stem the losses and get us back on track." She told them to buy something. Anything. A stock. A television. A five-year supply of toothbrushes. Whatever.
We should all follow Beswick's lead. The best signal we can send to those who would bring us to our knees is a Dow graphic on Monday poking through the top of the chart - not unlike a giant middle finger. And when the market opens Monday at 9:30 a.m., plop a couple buy orders on the table at Schwab or Morgan-Stanley. It doesn't have to be much. Buy 10 shares of EMC or, better yet, 20 shares of Espeed, a spin-off of Cantor Fitzgerald, the financial firm that lost hundreds of its workers on Tuesday.
Black Blade: Better Yet, buy Gold and Silver! Call the castle on Monday and get ya some. This article really pours it on thick doesn't it? You can just smell the reek of fear and panic oozing from the author of this shameless article. That alone should alert anyone that the Market is in the toilet and millions of hands are reaching for the flusher. Time to go for the Gold!
Golden Dreams All!
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 02:45:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61625)
Beneath The Veil
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/index.veil.html
The link has a good frame by frame story on life in Afghanistan under Taliban rule. The Taliban do not have much support from the people and they live in constant fear.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 02:21:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61624)
THIS JUST IN!
Afghani Freedom Fighters Welcome US Military!
The Northern Alliance under command by Rebel General Ahmed Shah Massood, until his death at the hands of assassins, welcomes the US military to join them in their fight against the Taliban. They have 15,000 fighters and 15,000 ready to fight if the US military will join them. General Mohammed Fahim says through a spokesman that the US military will have their "Full Support."
- Black Blade
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 02:08:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61623)
Jittery investors buy gold, bonds, oil
http://www.businesstoday.com/business/business/mart09152001.htm
Snippit:
Nervous investors overseas sold shares and dollars yesterday, and bought government bonds, gold and oil as they awaited the planned reopening of U.S. stock markets Monday.
Black Blade: I guess these nervous investors didn't read Cheryl Strauss Einhorn's article in BARRON'S. ;-)
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 02:08:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61622)
What's Wrong With This Story?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629380.asp?0dm=A15PB
"FBI probes European short-selling"
(oops, I see Black Blade onto some of this already)
" The stocks of the three reinsurance companies — AXA in France, Munich Re in Germany and Swiss Re in Switzerland — dropped 13 percent to 15 percent in the week before the attack. Analysts suggested at the time that the drops were anomalous — unexplained — since the reinsurance business was healthy and premium payments were on the way up."
"Those who reaped profits from the European short sales may have deposited their profits in American banks, giving U.S. law enforcement agencies jurisdiction. "
OK, so was it the short-selling that made the stocks drop 13 to 15 percent? Normally, short-selling shouldn't move the market much. (And that wouldn't be when they were making their profit, right? Article sounds ambiguous on timing.) If so, the shorts would be risking over-exposing themselves in such a heavy position. But if, in fact, they put on such a heavy position, they have to stick around to collect after doing the deed. Did they have a chance to cover in this week's markets? And, anonymously?
Kind of like heading for the betting window to collect after you just shot the other horses from your seat in the viewing stands. Might be a few race fans waiting to speak with you...
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 02:02:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61621)
BARRON'S: Commodities Corner -- Gold's Brief Surge
http://news.ino.com/intraday/?storyid=DJN615627600
Despite Attack, The Metal's Outlook Isn't Bright
By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
A knee-jerk reaction. That's what occurred in the gold market on Tuesday when the U.S. was attacked by terrorists. Prices rallied 5.4% that day, to $286 an ounce in London, after the major gold market in New York closed prematurely following evacuation of its Mercantile Exchange 9:08 a.m. (New York's "Merc," just west of the World Trade Center, is still standing, although building structures are being checked.) Though the move occurred in an illiquid market after the destruction of the twin towers, it was gold's biggest one-day gain in two years.
Investors were surprised by the move. While gold was once considered a safe haven during times of uncertainty and civil unrest, it has lost its luster in recent years as the financial markets have become much more sophisticated and better hedges against financial turmoil have become accessible.
Black Blade: Let's see, Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, undergraduate liberal arts degree and no investment experience. Hmmm… Sounds like adequate credentials to discuss a complicated subject on economics to me ;-)
Netking
(9/16/01; 01:56:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61620)
600 years of Silver
http://www.sharelynx.net/Charts/600yearsilver.gif
Ag bugs, 600 years of Silver from 1344 to 1998 (in 1998 dollars).
BTW the all time high (in 1998 money) was actually in the year 1477 at $806/Oz . . . . that's the stuff Comex nightmares are made of!
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 01:49:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61619)
'Officials investigate bin Laden stock market rumours'
http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_399735.html?menu=business.latestheadlines
Snippit:
Japanese authorities are reportedly investigating suggestions that Osama bin Laden may have cashed in on falling stock prices. Rumours are circulating that the prime suspect was active in the derivatives market on the Tokyo stock exchange a few days before the US terror attacks. According to Japanese news agency Jiji, the country's finance officials have launched an investigation into the claims. The day after the US attacks, the Nikkei shares index in Tokyo fell by 6.6%. The rumours say bin Laden may have added millions to his already extensive fortune.
Black Blade: He sure gets around."Interesting" how he uses the World markets to finance Terrorism using Western education (Flight School) and Western aircraft. Now this possibility of western investment sure looks more likely. I guess if market manipulation is good enough for the "President's Working Group in Financial Markets" then it's good enough for Osama.
Solomon Weaver
(9/16/01; 01:43:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61618)
Proven and Probable Reserves : Silver
Proven and Probable Reserves : Silver
Its a pretty good thing that Washington has an immense political will to clear the rubble.....because if they didn't, and the "owners" of COMEX Silver and Gold had to pay the "salvage" costs to dig a tunnel down to the vault, I wonder if it would even be worth recovering. Sort of like the way that mining companies put a value on their in ground reserves based on the extraction costs, and the market price.
One thing is for certain.....even though the gold and silver in COMEX might "trade", since it is not "available" for physical transfer, it cannot settle a physical trade. It is no longer a full sale, but rather a contract for delivery at some future date...so here is the part which is going to be very interesting (moreso with silver than gold)...how is it possible for a market that cannot provide physical settlement to be used for price discovery?
As of next week we will have the LBMA which can deliver metal and the COMEX which can only give you an I.O.U. that says "deliverable if and when we dig it out". How can these two sources of silver trade at par to eachother?
The COMEX silver will have to trade at a lower price...if it doesn't, it is a lie. The ONLY way it is going to work is if just like a lease rate, there is some type of spread published between the two markets. I suppose the real solution is for COMEX to add additional above ground bullion to make sure they have material for allowing settlement. Iv'e heard so much about the glut of silver just sitting around gathering dust in the vaults, so I would think that given all the selling of silver that the Bullion banks have been doing over the years that they should be able to supply some additional silver to COMEX so that COMEX can really settle....I mean if they don't, they stand the real chance that the value of the US traded silver paper plummets...the worst nightmare of every seller it seems.
Doesn't the FED, as lender of last resort, stand ready to lend silver to keep the market liquid....where is the Treasuries strategic silver stock to lend into this situation?
Maybe we can have the ESF write a swap so that the Germans can send us 100 million additional ounces of silver and we will issue a "earmarked" status on the COMEX silver.
This situation is actually potentially very severe....with about 30 tons of gold about 1/4000 of the worlds gold is "deep-deep stored"....easy enough for motivated sellers to create a COMEX loan to get real metal working again....but with silver, 10-20% of the world's known vault silver just got reclassified. With W Buffet sitting on another 10-20% This creates a natural squeeze. Who has enough silver to reliquify the COMEX silver supply?
I certainly hope that TPTB will not let allow the "profiteering" of this great tragedy by allowing any kind of short selling of silver, next week, since this could seriously erode the value of US held silver. Or are they suggesting different rules only for the stock market.
. . . . . . . . . .
I know that GATA has been primarily working on gold, but I have a gut level feeling that the next few weeks will be a very important time to watch the silver markets....and the way the rules are suspended and modified.
Who makes the rules, where does the money flow?
The other absurd thing is to let COMEX traders fix the prices that silver miners get for their product.
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 01:36:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61617)
RE: Simply Me
I hope to never retire! I am having way too much fun. As far as alternative energy - it will develop over time but is not likely to replace fossil fuels in our or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Teach? - Good God I hope not. I doubt I could function effectively in a "Politically Correct" environment. I like to stir things up occasionally.
Cheers!
- Black Blade
Netking
(9/16/01; 01:32:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61616)
America's Fire Power
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/4321512
The link confirms the U.S. has some awesome technology & fire power. Those who stand in their way . . . do so at their own peril. - Netking
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 01:25:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61615)
Associates of bin Laden may have profited from terrorist attacks
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629380_asp.htm
FBI probes European short-selling
Snippit:
NBC News has learned that investigators in Europe and the United States are examining whether Islamic fanatic Osama bin Laden may have financed Tuesday's terror assault on America by stock trades in European exchanges in the days before the attacks. The Italian newspaper Corriere della Serra reported Saturday that the FBI is looking into possible short-selling of the stocks of reinsurance companies in the four trading days before the terrorist attacks on the United States on Tuesday. Reinsurance firms assume risk by providing backup insurance for insurance companies.
Black Blade: Who needs inside information when one has suicidal underlings to make one wealthy. Reinsurance companies are likely to be hardest hit as these guys insure the insurers. Berkshire Hathaway managed by Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger could get crushed on Monday. Should be "Interesting."
Simply Me
(9/16/01; 01:21:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61614)
(No Subject)
@ Steve H.
If I understand your recent posts correctly, I think you've got the right idea, this war being about setting gold free. But I think you have it backwards. I think this war is being encouraged, not by the Euro/gold faction, but by the US dollar faction in order to retain power a little longer, making it possible for them to cover their tracks while we convert to a new system. War will be the excuse given by TPTB to change the rules on the COMEX, the FOREX, and the SE, and anything else deemed necessary to retain money and power for their chosen ones.
I believe I have just witnessed the years 1929 (Stock Market Crash) thru 1941 (Pearl Harbor) all compressed within the space of about one year....Fall 2000 thru Fall 2001.
Of course there was no intervening 30's-style Depression here in the US.
The Fed has been exporting our depression via US$ World Reserve Currency status for at least ten years now. And we US citizens didn't want to change things because there were all those delicious crumbs falling from TPTB's table. Japan, along with many other countries have been bearing our depression until it could no longer be exported. Then in compressed computer-time, just when Depression was about to come home to roost (ala Euro introduction)...BAM! 911 Day and America's New War begins.
Just like WWII cured the deflation and unemployment problems of the Great Depresssion (and just for good measure, curbed a few pesky American freedoms for TPTB), I expect this new war will, at least temporarily, have the same effect. The government borrowed it's way out of the Depression to finance WWII. When we print more fiat than we can back with production, we are borrowing from our future. All this liquidity will have to be dried up sometime. But the Fed will keep it up at least until the Euro/gold faction get foothold enough to swing things their way. I don't believe we will see the true price of gold until then.
Eisenhower said before he retired from the Presidency: "Beware the Military/Industrial complex." I think he may have been the last TRUE patriot (one with no other motivation than the preservation of the American Dream).
You know the old saying "Follow the money?" In this case, I want to know who winds up with the gold mines.
I just hope, as the mother of three boys, ages 12, 14 and 24, that 1941 thru 1945 (years of American involvement in WWII) goes by in computer-like compressed time, too.
God Bless America,
simply
P.S. @ dragonfly
RE: The letter from the Afghani.
I would hope our leaders have enough "intelligence" to realize that bombing poor peasants will NOT be popular...no matter who they are. That's why this matter will call for spies and ground troops for the kind of surgical excision of the cancer from the body of mankind. Let's hope the cancer has not spread it's malignancy too far.
P.P.S. @ PH in LA
I never thought I would see the day when you sounded more like a Republican than me! <smile> By the way...I'm registered Independent.
P.P.P.S. @ Sierra Madre
Rudyard Kipling is one of my favorites. Thanks for introducing me to a work I hadn't seen before...and so pertinent, too!
P.x4 S. @ BlackBlade
Thanks for your extensive efforts in bringing us new from the energy front. Do you think that oil-based energy prices will rise far enough to swing interest over to alternative energy sources (solar, etc.)? You are probably saved from having to dust off that teaching diploma for the time being. But, are you preparing to retire in about 10 years?
P.x5 S. @ Mr. Gresham
I HOPE this qualifies as intelligent posting. Thanks for the encouragement.
If anyone has read this far, you might be wondering, "Which side is she on?" The answer is, "My childrens' side." They're the 4 best reasons I know to buy physical gold. The 4th child is a daughter who's about to make me a "granny" any day now! I guess then I have 5 reasons.
God Save America,
simply me
Netking
(9/16/01; 01:13:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61613)
Mr Gresham - Bailing out . . .
Sir, Many of us see the likelihood of COMEX PM contract sellers/writers not being able to meet their obligations in times ahead, not rocket science but just history repeating again. I think we can all see the POG soaring above the turbulance of $330 in the times ahead . . . creating "havoc".
We also see structural & administrative changes ahead from the Govt.& the exchanges such as Comex eg suspension of new long contracts(aka Hunts 1980) & a massive hiking up of deposits on existing 'in the money contracts' etc etc will not help the situation a whole lot for those who have a massive contractual paper obligations in the PM market place.
Mr Gresham given the failure we have seen in the past with paper trading of other PM's in the PM group do you believe there will be a "bail out" by "the Fed turning on the money faucets full blast" on this occasion for cash settlement of existing contracts or do you believe the writers of these massive contingent liabilities (household names) will "crash & burn"?
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 01:05:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61612)
Industrial Production Plummets
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010914/bs/economy_263.html
Snippit:
WASHINGTON (AP) - Industrial activity plunged in August, extending what is now the longest decline in factory output in three decades. The discouraging economic news intensified fears that the ailing economy - shaken by the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history - could tip into recession. The Federal Reserve (news) reported Friday that industrial production fell by 0.8 percent last month, the 11th consecutive monthly decline, stifling hopes that manufacturers were about to turn a corner. Many economists had thought that July's tiny 0.1 percent drop in output might be signaling better days ahead.
Black Blade: Next month's numbers should be horrific as this deepening Recession becomes evident. A little Gold and Silver could be about the best insurance to have on hand and paying down debt is not a bad idea either. A hell of a lot more layoffs are coming.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 01:04:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61611)
Time for a re-read of Puplava's 'Rogue Wave - Rogue Trader'
http://www.financialsense.com/series2/roguetext.htm
"There will come a day without warning..."
From last year. Good refresher on derivatives, LTCM, gold carry trade, and HR4541.
Strad Master
(9/16/01; 00:47:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61610)
Financial Advice from Jordan Goodman
Fellow Goldmeisters? Whaddya think?
ALL: Here is an edited version of a financial e-mail I get. Some of it is quite interesting - especially his take on gold. (Very much contrary to the opinion of most on this forum.) I'd be curious to read any comments from others here.
********************************************************
We at Money Answers.com join the world in keeping the people who have been affected by the September 11 tragedy in our hearts and prayers.
During the countless radio and TV interviews I have done across the country in the past few days I have compiled some of the most common questions I have received about our country's financial future and share my answers with you in
this SPECIAL EDITION of Money Answers Now.
In case you have received this newsletter as a forward and want to know my background I'll give you a quick synopsis:
- Regular contributor to Public Radio International's Marketplace in the Morning
- Author of Everyone's Money Book in its 3rd Edition, Sold over 200,000 copies
- Wall Street correspondent for Money Magazine for 18 years
- Weekly financial analyst on NBC News at Sunrise for 9 years
- Numerous appearances on NBC's Today Show, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, CNBC and Nightline.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Q:
Where should I invest my money now?
A:
You are going to want to be in the safest, most liquid kind of investment around. Treasury Bills, for the most part. Do keep in mind that interest rates on short-term securities like Treasury Bills are going to plunge. Because there
is going to be huge demand for them, and not that much supply, interest rates on short term bills which have been maybe 3% will go down to 1 or 2%.
On the opposite end, anything that is risky will plunge in value. Junk bonds, high-tech stocks, overseas stocks, corporate bonds, anything that is perceived to have risk will not be stable right now. We will see a flight to safety. A
fight to quality.
For information about Treasury Bills:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov
1-800-722-2678
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Q:
Is there anything I should NOT do with my investments?
A:
If you are a long-term investor, you should NOT sell high quality, long term assets. An example of this is good quality stocks and mutual funds that are going to hold their value over time.
I've been through many of these crises and sometimes people sell into a panic. This was true in the 1987 crash and of the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Even back to the 1963 Kennedy assassination to Pearl Harbor. The market does sell off
immediately in what I call a waterfall decline. However, after that it usually recovers and if you sell right into it, you're going to get the absolute lowest prices.
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Q:
Are consumers going to cut back on purchases?
A:
I think the answer is yes, particularly on discretionary items, such as home, cars, furniture, big things over which people have some discretion. This will definitely hurt the economy; at a time when the economy was already on the
verge of recession anyway.
On fundamental grounds, stocks will fall because earnings and sales are going to be down with consumers being so frightened. Already, tons of things are being cancelled left and right. Baseball games, airline flights, conventions,
movies, launches of new products, and all kinds of things. It kind of stops the economy in its tracks right away and that is economy contraction.
Off setting that, the Federal Reserve and other central banks are pouring billions of dollars into the economy. $38 billion yesterday and $50 billion today to offset all that economic weakness.
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Q:
How will the insurance companies pay the huge claims they face?
A:
I've been getting lots of questions about insurance. The estimates are at least $20 billion in property casualty claims coming from this. Which is by far the biggest EVER. The biggest previous claim was $15 billion from Hurricane Andrew.
The insurance companies don't exactly have $20 billion sitting in their hip pockets waiting to pay these claims. They will have to sell assets over time to meet those claims. And that's got to mean a great deal of pressure to sell high
quality assets. This is where the Fed comes in. They can put in liquidity to help the insurance companies make those payments. That 's on the property casualty side.
Also, there will be mammoth claims on the life insurance side. You see all kinds of estimates on how many people, 5,000 or many more, either highly paid, highly insured people, who are going to have claims of 5 -10 million dollars. That is going to be a big hit on the life insurance companies as well. Current insurance stocks will plummet. I think they will be able to make the payments, but its going to be a big strain on them.
In the future it is unclear how it is going to affect the writing of insurance, because insurance companies write premiums based on perceived risks. This is not a risk that anybody perceived. And if there is going to be future terrorist activity then how do they price the policy? So it just adds a level of uncertainty and risk to insurance companies and policies. Clearly this will make insurance premiums go up.
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Q:
Should I buy gold now?
A:
The price of gold has already gone up because it's kind of a refuge. It 's what I call the 'refugee mentality' metal. Normally, in a case like this, the U.S. dollar would rise, because the U.S is considered the safest place. Well, maybe
the U.S. isn't quite as safe as people thought it was, so the dollar has actually been falling and gold has been rising as a result of that.
However, I don't think this is a long-term situation, but in the short term that is what has happened. Gold going up is a temporary situation, because long term, this is a deflationary event. This attack is making the economy go down. Gold goes up on inflation, but this is deflationary. So, it should not be good long term for Gold. If you have gold, get it out quickly.
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Q:
How will the stock market be affected?
A:
One of the things that is going to change about the stock and bond market, and the financial markets in general, is less liquidity. Having people on the other side of the trade is what makes a liquid market. A lot of people/companies on
the other side of the trade simply do not exist anymore. Cantor Fitzgerald was the major bond brokerage firm behind all trading in treasury securities. They were the 101st floor, and were just wiped out. Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, American Express. All kinds of players don't exist in the same way anymore, so it will make the market more volatile. There are just fewer players to make the trades. Also impacting the issue is all of the intelligence and the experience of all the people who were lost at those firms.
The other thing is small, but I'm sure it is going to cause a lot of disruptions, is the lack of records. There is no way that all the paper records in those two buildings were reproduced. Maybe a lot of electronic records were backed up and put in another locations, but there was a lot of paper in those two buildings.
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Q:
What can I do right now?
A:
Keep paper records of everything. There is gong to be a lot of piecing things back together that will take a long time. I'll just give you one person as an example: We have a guy doing some carpentry around our house, who was a New
York City employee for 40 years. Last week he was at the WTC dealing with a pension issue. The New York City pension agency was at the WTC. All the records have been wiped out. This is just one small example from someone that worked on
our house. You can imagine the other federal, state, local agencies, as well as insurance companies, banks, brokerage firms, and foreign companies and trades. There were 1,200 tenants in that building. You can't assume that all these
records have been backed up somewhere. I just don't think its possible. For the disruption, over time this will be pretty significant.
Keep your own paper records in order, because a lot of records have literally disappeared. It seems kind of small in face of all the lost lives, but it kind of complicates things.
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Q:
Is there any hope for America's financial future?
A:
Yes! We do recover, we will come out. When you're in the middle of a situation like this, you think it will never end and world is going to get worse, and yet it often creates buying opportunities in the long run. There will be a certain
rallying spirit, a rebuilding of the World Trade Center. Which is a massive investment project and will be a new symbol of world capitalism.
People are already rallying. Congress is certainly going to get all kinds of things done, very quickly that a day ago they were bickering about. Dipping into the Social Security surplus, and all kinds of things that were going to be
very difficult, they are just going to fly right through them.
There are some positive things coming out of this. It is possible that we will strike a blow to terrorism and stop it. In the meantime, extreme volatility, emotional volatility, political volatility, financial volatility, and inconvenience are not going to be good for the economy, and people have to be conservative. It is not the time to try to profit from this. Conserve capital, stay out of trouble, take low risks, and hunker down and survive it, so you're in good shape when the good times do return.
**************************
Have additional questions?
Please feel free to email me your financial questions specifically as they relate to this situation. I will either answer you directly or compile the questions for another SPECIAL EDITION newsletter.
When e-mailing me, please let me know whether or not you are a subscriber to Money Answers or if you got this as a forwarded email. That way if your question's answer is going out via the newsletter I will know to send it to you directly as well.
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Jordan Goodman
The Money Answers Man
Author of Everyone's Money Book, Third Edition
Over 200,000 copies sold so far
http://www.MoneyAnswers.com
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 00:44:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61609)
U.S. energy security a rising priority
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010914/n14267708_1.html
Snippit:
WASHINGTON, Sept 14 (Reuters) - Protecting U.S. pipelines and electric transmission lines has become an urgent priority following devastating aerial attacks in New York and Washington, lawmakers and regulators said on Friday. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission said its ``highest priority'' was to help natural gas, oil and electricity firms tighten security for pipelines and transmission lines.
Black Blade: If energy and energy transmission is compromised, then what is left of the US economy crumbles and then it's "Game Over."
Black Blade
(9/16/01; 00:31:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61608)
Students Out in Cold as Firms Spurn Fairs
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010915/business_bizjobfairs_dc_1.html
Snippit:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pity this year's crop of college graduates. As companies cut back job fair attendance around the country, recruiters are preparing for one of the grimmest seasons in memory. Just over a year ago, new grads had the luxury of picking from a slew of companies that flocked to job fairs, desperately seeking new recruits amid the exodus to dot-com startups. Now, gone are the signing bonuses, free cars and other inducements offered to lure new hires -- gone, along with many of the companies themselves.
``We are hearing those hated words 'hiring freeze' over and over again,'' lamented Kent Horsley, president of Collegiate Job Fairs (CJF) in Orlando, Florida, who has been organizing job fairs around the United States for eight years. ``It's really hurting us, because the economy is vastly reducing companies' ability to participate in collegiate events. This is by far the worst year I've ever seen.''
Black Blade: I also see that engineers are not a desirable career as well. Engineering students are said to be hurt during this deepening Recession. The "Bone Pile" grows.
Mr Gresham
(9/16/01; 00:24:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61607)
First mention I've seen of a big question...
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=181594
"Money Market Funds -- Any new thoughts here as to when and if someone will "break the buck"? ....My GUESS is that the Fed pumps in enough initial liquidity that in effect they make EVRYONE whole at the buck...for a while. Eventually though these funds will have to stand on their own, and that's when the trouble might start to show.
"I think that this should be watched as it might be the important tip-off of a real structural meltdown should it begin to manifest. " -- bondbear
"I think the Fed's adding nearly 3% to the money supply in three days via $190 billion in overnight repurchases was intended in large part to ensure that the money markets will remain fully liquid for now.
"In my opinion the Fed seems fully prepared to "monetize" the money markets, suggesting eventual hyper-inflation. The alternative would be a credit collapse with interest rates a la Russia, Turkey, or Argentina. " -- Puritan
With such a long closure, the markets can be expected to have some lumpy cash flows when all is re-opened. The Fed is turning on the money faucets full blast, because the penalty for going dry in any one sector is much greater than
for having too much "standing water" (which I'm sure the market-spinners will be glad to help mop up) left in another sector at the end of the day/week/month ahead.
Solomon Weaver
(9/16/01; 00:22:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61606)
Take a look at the link ....for the chart and timing of these statements
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/seymour062001.html
"We will not have any more crashes in our time."
- John Maynard Keynes in 1927
"I cannot help but raise a dissenting voice to statements that we are living in a fool's paradise, and that prosperity in this country must necessarily diminish and recede in the near future."
- E. H. H. Simmons, President, New York Stock Exchange, January 12, 1928
"There will be no interruption of our permanent prosperity."
- Myron E. Forbes, President, Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co., January 12, 1928
"No Congress of the United States ever assembled, on surveying the state of the Union, has met with a more pleasing prospect than that which appears at the present time. In the domestic field there is tranquility and contentment...and the highest record of years of prosperity. In the foreign field there is peace, the goodwill which comes from mutual understanding."
- Calvin Coolidge December 4, 1928
"There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash."
- Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929
"Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher within a few months."
- Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929
"This crash is not going to have much effect on business."
- Arthur Reynolds, Chairman of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, October 24, 1929
"There will be no repetition of the break of yesterday... I have no fear of another comparable decline."
- Arthur W. Loasby (President of the Equitable Trust Company), quoted in NYT, Friday, October 25, 1929
"We feel that fundamentally Wall Street is sound, and that for people who can afford to pay for them outright, good stocks are cheap at these prices."
- Goodbody and Company market-letter quoted in The New York Times, Friday, October 25, 1929
"This is the time to buy stocks. This is the time to recall the words of the late J. P. Morgan... that any man who is bearish on America will go broke. Within a few days there is likely to be a bear panic rather than a bull panic. Many of the low prices as a result of this hysterical selling are not likely to be reached again in many years."
- R. W. McNeel, market analyst, as quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
"Buying of sound, seasoned issues now will not be regretted"
- E. A. Pearce market letter quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
"Some pretty intelligent people are now buying stocks... Unless we are to have a panic -- which no one seriously believes, stocks have hit bottom."
- R. W. McNeal, financial analyst in October 1929
"The decline is in paper values, not in tangible goods and services...America is now in the eighth year of prosperity as commercially defined. The former great periods of prosperity in America averaged eleven years. On this basis we now have three more years to go before the tailspin."
- Stuart Chase (American economist and author), NY Herald Tribune, November 1, 1929
"Hysteria has now disappeared from Wall Street."
- The Times of London, November 2, 1929
"The Wall Street crash doesn't mean that there will be any general or serious business depression... For six years American business has been diverting a substantial part of its attention, its energies and its resources on the speculative game... Now that irrelevant, alien and hazardous adventure is over. Business has come home again, back to its job, providentially unscathed, sound in wind and limb, financially stronger than ever before."
- Business Week, November 2, 1929
"...despite its severity, we believe that the slump in stock prices will prove an intermediate movement and not the precursor of a business depression such as would entail prolonged further liquidation..."
- Harvard Economic Society (HES), November 2, 1929
"... a serious depression seems improbable; [we expect] recovery of business next spring, with further improvement in the fall."
- HES, November 10, 1929
"The end of the decline of the Stock Market will probably not be long, only a few more days at most."
- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics at Yale University, November 14, 1929
"In most of the cities and towns of this country, this Wall Street panic will have no effect."
- Paul Block (President of the Block newspaper chain), editorial, November 15, 1929
"Financial storm definitely passed."
- Bernard Baruch, cablegram to Winston Churchill, November 15, 1929
"I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism... I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress."
- Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929
"I am convinced that through these measures we have reestablished confidence."
- Herbert Hoover, December 1929
"[1930 will be] a splendid employment year."
- U.S. Dept. of Labor, New Year's Forecast, December 1929
"For the immediate future, at least, the outlook (stocks) is bright."
- Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in Economics, in early 1930
"...there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over..."
- Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930
"There is nothing in the situation to be disturbed about."
- Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon, Feb 1930
"The spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern...American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity."
- Julius Barnes, head of Hoover's National Business Survey Conference, Mar 16, 1930
"... the outlook continues favorable..."
- HES Mar 29, 1930
"... the outlook is favorable..."
- HES Apr 19, 1930
"While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst -- and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us."
- Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930
"...by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent..."
- HES May 17, 1930
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
- Herbert Hoover, responding to a delegation requesting a public works program to help speed the recovery, June 1930
"... irregular and conflicting movements of business should soon give way to a sustained recovery..."
- HES June 28, 1930
"... the present depression has about spent its force..."
- HES, Aug 30, 1930
"We are now near the end of the declining phase of the depression."
- HES Nov 15, 1930
"Stabilization at [present] levels is clearly possible."
- HES Oct 31, 1931
"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S."
- President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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